UN runs out of food in Gaza two months after Israel’s total blockade
Posted by cap123abc@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 239 comments
Posted by cap123abc@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 239 comments
Proper-Community-465@reddit
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/un-chief-rejects-new-israeli-plan-to-control-gaza-aid/ar-AA1Cxskt
It is worth pointing out that israel has offered to allow aid if they can escort it so it isn't stolen and the un has refused. Under article 23 of the geneva convention israel isn't required to allow in aid if its control cant be secured or it benefits an enemy which hamas stealing it does.
SorosBuxlaundromat@reddit
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/18/gaza-looting-aid-convoys-israel-famine/
The results of Israel "escorting aid"
Proper-Community-465@reddit
You realize israel is literally not allowed by the un to escort aid currently? They are criticized for not protecting aid while not being allowed to protect it.
IAMADon@reddit
Article 23 applies when two countries are at war. Article 55 applies here.
Proper-Community-465@reddit
https://www.justsecurity.org/109731/israel-court-rejects-gaza-aid-petition/
Which assumes Israel is an occupying power in Gaza despite not meeting any of the legal definitions that define an occupying power. Seems like a pretty bad faith interpretation honestly. Given that Hamas has had ruling Authority in Gaza in his hostile to Israel. Also it's based on a non-binding ruling that doesn't State Israel is occupying in the full sense but that it maintains some occupation obligations due to controlling some infrastructure which Israel's courts actually agree with. Because of that they've ruled they can't shut off electricity
IAMADon@reddit
Netanyahu saying "maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state" shows Hamas staying in power was to his advantage, so I'm not sure why their hostility towards Israel proves Gaza isn't under occupation, especially when the ICJ considers the capability of exercising control as occupation, not whether they chose to use it.
Proper-Community-465@reddit
Netanyahu is a dingbat politician who says stupid stuff to appease his base, He was justifying allowing Payments from Qatar in to finance Gaza's public sector
If he hadn't of allowed the money in for humanitarian causes he would be criticized for that. The dude says all sorts of stuff to justify sane actions to his more hardline coalition partners. He's talking about money Qatar send for things like healthcare in Gaza. My countries president trump says crazy things all the time.
waiver@reddit
Even if a few dumb people might argue that it was not an occupying power in Gaza prior to the war—a stance unsupported by any credible sources—it is undeniably evident that it became the indisputable occupying power once the conflict commenced.
DeliciousSector8898@reddit
Lmao Israel has been recognized as the occupying power of Gaza by: “the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, UN General Assembly (UNGA), European Union (EU), African Union, International Criminal Court (ICC) (both Pre-Trial Chamber I and the Office of the Prosecutor), Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch,” as well as “the International Federation for Human Rights; the Geneva Academy’s Rule of Law in Armed Conflict Project; Médecins sans Frontières; Minority Rights Group International; Al-Haq; B’tselem; and the Center for Constitutional Rights.”
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/
Paquetty@reddit
Buddy, its a total blockade thats lasted months. It's the use of starvation as a weapon of war. Are you an idiot or just a propagandist?
Proper-Community-465@reddit
The food literally just ran out today. At this point the claims of starvation seen a bit boy who cried wolf In the last year you were more at risk of starvation in america then gaza. Go look at yemen or sudan to see actual famine. Most likely the un will cave and hire security or allow israel to escort aid so it cant be stolen like before. Which im personally all for militant groups shouldn't be stealing and reselling aid.
Paquetty@reddit
A propagandist then. They have throttled food and aid to the entire population of the Strip for the past year and a half in order to keep the population on the brink of starvation. It is a political tactics to weaken Palestianian will to resist and potentially to kill off significant portion of the population in the immediate future. This is not controversial. Even the United States, the main actor arming and defending Israel, admitted that Gazans have been broke to the brink of famine multiple times.
Proper-Community-465@reddit
And yet the death toll from famine last year was in the double digits. Compare that to Yemen we're over 100,000 people have starved to death. Likewise the mass theft of Aid is well documented. And Hamas is documented stealing Aid and reselling it for years now. Are you against Aid being secured so it can't be stolen?
Paquetty@reddit
What part of "brought to the brink" is not making it through? Israel knows how many calories a human needs, and they have refused to let in that amount for each Gazan for this entire conflict. They have destroyed all farm land in the strip. They have bombed every bakery in the strip. Have you any idea of the consequences of prolonged malnutrition?
THEY ARE STARVING THE MOSTLY CHILD POPULATION.
Please give me an example of where the 2 million Jews are gradually starved over one and a half years could be viewed as anything but a genocide waiting to happen?
Proper-Community-465@reddit
The area that was facing food insecurity were in Northern Gaza where Hamas was situated and was largely due to inability to distribute the food. It was also an area with evacuation notices . By the Numbers Gaza is one of the most food-secure places on the planet right now. It has less starvation desk for capita than pretty much any first world country. Does it suck being in a war absolutely. And I'm hoping this end soon and both sides can get on with their life. Letting Hamas Finance Itself by selling stolen food is just dragging this out
FlyingVolvo@reddit
The claims around food insecurity is absolutely outrageous, and it's apparent from your lack of sources.
Proper-Community-465@reddit
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/7/8/israel-war-on-gaza-live-israel-orders-palestinians-to-flee-west-gaza-city?update=3032811 Back in July it was 41
https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/145007 June, it was 32
You're looking at double digit death tolls here for a population of 2 million
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10990269/#:\~:text=%5B3%5D%20According%20to%20the%20United,20%2C500%20in%202022%20%5B3%5D.
In 2022 America had 20,500 deaths (No more recent numbers)
Dry-Season-522@reddit
"How dare you have evidence that contradicts what I want to be true,"
Dry-Season-522@reddit
That's how a seige works.
waiver@reddit
After murdering hundreds of people seeking aid and aid workers, I wonder why they don't want Israel to 'escort' the aid.
PandaCheese2016@reddit
What if they mistakely shoot ppl coming for a hot meal though? It would be very regrettable. Some good solider might lose their job.
Proper-Community-465@reddit
It's a terrible situation but it's also not like Hamas hasn't killed civilians for going after Aid
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
“For weeks, hot meal kitchens have been the only consistent source of food assistance for people in Gaza,” the World Food Programme (WFP) said in a statement. “Despite reaching just half the population with only 25% of daily food needs, they have provided a critical lifeline.”
If this doesn’t cause you to at the very least ask yourself if there is any other possible alternative to saving the hostages and removing Hamas then you don’t actually think Palestinians are people who deserve life.
We are talking about millions of human beings. Yet Israel is treating them like animals. It’s ethnic cleansing committed by Israel and supported by the USA.
ArCovino@reddit
Yes, I am asking you … what is a possible alternative that would achieve the goals of saving the remaining hostages and removing Hamas?
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
Israel stops illegally occupying Palestinian territories, stops their apparthied system, releases the thousands of Palestinian hostages and allows the right of return to the ethnically cleansed Palestinians.
Weird that none of those things matter to you. Despite them being the entire reason for Palestinian resistance.
meister2983@reddit
Allowing millions to immigrate and completely change the ethnic demographics? That's a red line for any sovereign country.
I guess this would end Hamas by virtue of them accomplishing all their goals
Might get hostages back, won't end Hamas.
Zipz@reddit
And that gets rid of hamas how exactly ?
pm_me_your_pay_slips@reddit
It removes their reason for existing
Zipz@reddit
But it doesn’t actually remove them ….
You do understand that right ?
Can you name me one example of Islamic extremist organizations who took away elections just giving up power?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Are you saying the only method you will contemplate is force? You won’t consider any other method?
Zipz@reddit
I’m open to reason which clearly none of you want to use here
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Define “reason” in this context. Most Zionists use it as a synonym for force.
Zipz@reddit
It’s funny. I noticed you ignored all my questions and then tired to put words in my mouth all while changing the subject
So can you show me an example where an Islamic extremist org stepped down like I asked ?
I’m waiting
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I actually answered that on this thread in response to someone else asking this: The FLN.
Now, define reason in this context. Is it just force, as in you will mass murder children until they give up?
Zipz@reddit
It’s funny I’m no expert but according to the internet fln isn’t comparable. It’s interesting they didn’t take away elections
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Why isn’t it comparable? Is because you didn’t want an answer?
Yeah, you didn’t want an answer. You could have asked about rebel groups in general. You didn’t, because you don’t want an answer and you just want to vilify Palestinians. Unluckily for you, your anti-Muslim bigotry surged up and you thought that you would ask a question and make it about Muslim rebellious groups. You know so little that you assumed the answer would be hard to find. Now that you have an answer you reject it because it doesn’t suit your agenda.
Oh, well. Shed a few tears for your lost ignorance. At least you learned something today.
Zipz@reddit
No because they aren’t comparable and they didn’t take away elections like you claimed.
It’s funny I brought up Islam because Hamas is an Islamic based group. It’s so funny you tried to pull that on me because you didn’t have a point. Standard behavior for you.
So you couldn’t find a single example where your idea worked but let’s try it here ….. super reasonable. /s
Nileghi@reddit
can you provide a historical example of a jihadi group willingly disbanding once their demands were met?
pm_me_your_pay_slips@reddit
Who formed the IDF ?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
There was the FLN in Algeria. They’re not terrorists any more. Israel and the whole world are embracing HTS in Syria. That’s probably a bit too close to home for you.
If you are just talking about extremists religious terrorist groups that aren’t Muslim there was the Stern Gang, Hagnanah and Lehi, but they radicalised the IDF so it’s probably a point to you…
CalligoMiles@reddit
And never mind that Hezbollah's reason for existing was ending the Israeli occupation of Lebanon. How'd that work out?
Phent0n@reddit
Which they do because (apart from because they can and it achieves their goals) because they have kinda given up on the Palestinians accepting a deal and this is the next best thing. I think what the settlers are doing is disgusting and an obstacle for peace, but it's not like Israel hasn't tried negotiated deals before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
Arabs have pretty much the same rights in Israel as Jews do, with some not too egregious exceptions. The whole explicit ethnostate thing makes it hard but it's not like South Africa lets be real.
To seal a deal this is achievable.
This will never, ever happen. The Jews will not live as an ethnic minority in Israel, for various reasons you can probably guess. You might not think those reasons are valid, but the unlimited right of return is a non-starter.
Ala117@reddit
Don't lie
"right of return for me but not for thee" Justify ethnic cleansing some more.
ShikaStyleR@reddit
First of all, a single video doesn't prove apartheid in Israel.
Secondly, in a two state solution, Palestinians will be allowed to return, to Palestine. Not to Israel. That shouldn't even be controversial.
Many Jews were ethnically cleansed from Hebron in the 1929 Hebron massacre, they aren't requesting to return there (it is in the west bank). Many Jews were ethnically cleansed from east Jerusalem in 1947, they won't return there.
Ala117@reddit
Yeah, settler terror and discrimination also do.
It is to israel and your buddy i replied to.
ShikaStyleR@reddit
Settlers are in the west bank, not in Israel. That's why they're called settlers. The argument here is that there is no apartheid in Israel. No mention of the west bank.
Ala117@reddit
there is.
ShikaStyleR@reddit
That's the same video you linked to before. What's wrong with you?
Ala117@reddit
No, what's wrong with you ignoring proof of apartheid?
ShikaStyleR@reddit
A single video without context isn't proof
Ala117@reddit
It is, you're just twisting into a pretzel to deny it and the apartheid you favourite settler terror state is doing.
tkhrnn@reddit
"The enemy's population is dying, we should surrender"
You must have left your brain somewhere else.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Those are the only two options, are they? Genocide or you surrender? How about everyone lives? A perfectly reasonable option for those who don’t want genocide…
tkhrnn@reddit
Not genocide. But continuing the war untill the enemy is eliminate. What is your suggestions?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
How many terrorist organisations have been destroyed this way without killing all or almost all the population? None. Not once. They will keep fighting you until there is almost no one left.
Even the IDF and the Israeli government have admitted that Hamas is able to recruit as fast as Israel kills members, probably faster now.
I’d suggest making peace but Israelis and Zionists in general don’t want that, they want expansion and ethnic cleansing. Look at the West Bank - no Hamas and yet lots of Israeli settler and IDF violence.
So, no suggestion. Keep going until the whole world shuns you and abandons you. You can probably get away with a few genocides. Go for it. See how far you can stretch your divine right to the land and the Holocaust guilt.
tkhrnn@reddit
So be it. If they want to fight to their own extinctions. They can do it. I don't know how many fought to extinctions, Probably true for small groups.
Hamas can be destroyed, it's not a stable ideology. It's part of the responsibility of the international community to stop providing the ideology, life support. It's time accept consequences. Hamas loses it resources pay their members.
Israel and zionists do want peace It's just false to say otherwise. It seems they want it way more than Palestinians. Hamas does exist in the west bank and militates that align with them. I agree the west bank settlers are a problem, and I do criticize Israel for thier headlining of the situation.
No suggestions? First I think this war needs to end, and I gave the two proper ways for the war to end. Sometimes you are only left with bad options.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
The point is that it never happens until the entire population is destroyed. You are ok with this. Now tell us again how much you want peace and how much you don’t relish genocide…
Does that apply to all unstable ideologies? Zionism needs an injection of billions of dollars a year to survive. I’m advocating stopping funding it. Will you be joining me in that advocacy?
Make up your mind, babe! You just said you were fine with genocide. Or were you saying other Zionists but not you?
After 55 years and the millions of West Bank Palestinians either murdered, brutalised, ethnically cleansed or imprisoned, you are wiling to magnanimously agree that there may be a problem with settlements? Let me guess, stealing other people’s land doesn’t mean they don’t want peace? They just want peace and violent mass murder? Sounds very Zionist..
I think the fact that Zionists are really keen on genocide tells us all we need to know about how much they want peace.
tkhrnn@reddit
Would you say the US wanted ro genocide Japanese?
What is the Zionist ideology for you? For the majority it's to believe in a home for Jewish people. Hamas is an oppressive terrorist organization, which rely on international help and the help of an enemy which they seek to destroy. This ideology is unsustainable.
Will you actually argue that between the two groups Palestinians are the peace seeking one? I seek peace, appeasement is not peace, some what a forgetful fact.
Nah, Palestinians earned the military occupation, this history revisionism that Palestinians are innocent victims in the conflict. Remind me, where are the settlements in Gaza? What happened to them? Apparently Israel was willing to forcibly remove them.
This is a waste of time, you just look to put false labels on me. What a shame.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s utterly absurd how little new thought or ideas enters these debates from Zionists. “What about the US? What about Japan?” Isn’t exactly cutting edge debating.
Zionism is an expansionist settler colonial ideology which has evolved, adding Jewish supremacism into the toxic cocktail. Don’t take my word for it, read what Herzl wrote and Ben Gurion did. Read up about the mass murders and cruel abuses of Palestinians by early Zionists right through to today.
If Zionists just sought peace and “a home for the Jewish people” they wouldn’t be expanding settlements today. But they are. They have no intention of living in peace with anyone non-Jewish.
Palestinians agreed to a two state solution in 1993. In response Israel has expanded the settlements, mass murdered Palestinians and supports some of the most horrendous modern day abuses such as mass starvation, rape and torture. I know that from a Zionists standpoint these abuses are “only” against Palestinians so they don’t count as being bad, but to the rest of us they are really really bad.
Yeah, of course you would feel that your victims deserve the abuses you mete out.
This is the kind of logic that shows how morally bankrupt and frankly villainous Israel is. Israel set up an apartheid system in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza in 1967 and built settlements there non-stop until 2005. But because Israel dismantled settlements in Gaza in 2005 it’s somehow all ok! The abuse, blockade, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, rape, torture and all the rest are completely erased because Israel dismantled a couple of settlements in Gaza! Bravo! So moral! You can commit genocide now, you’ve earned it! All the other settlements are excused, all the abuses are fine, I don’t know why the Palestinians complain so much.
It’s the same logic that let Israel destroy all health care in Gaza after 2007 but claim that they were really moral because, even though they stopped almost all medicine and medical equipment getting into Gaza, causing widespread suffering and a lot of deaths, they occasionally let a handful of patients be treated in the West Bank, so it’s all ok. I’m sure that all those times COGAT only approved permits for medical travel posthumously was just a gag that they liked to do to lighten the mood a bit. Because it was all so dark in Gaza with all that pain and suffering.
If the shoe fits, wear it. You’re not bringing anything new, just excusing the occupation and the frankly murderous and evil reign of Israel in Gaza and the West Bank.
s4b3r6@reddit
The people who were not yet the enemy, are dying.
That you view every single Palestinian as the enemy is the evidence that your brain has long since escaped your skull.
russiankek@reddit
The overwhelming majority of Palestinians supported the act of genocide against Jews on October 7th.
They now find out the consequences of such behavior. Judging by their behavior, they still don't understand what's wrong with them. Hence, Israel has to double down.
s4b3r6@reddit
"Nuh uh! I'm only genocidal because you are!"
That's... A childish excuse. Grow up. Murdering an entire people isn't excusable.
RoughBenefit9325@reddit
Its amazing what happens when people have been suppressed for many decades and treated so inhumanly. Maybe someone will try to stand up and fight back. But I'm sure Israel would have found a way to occupy more Palestinian territory and commit genocide one way or another.
tkhrnn@reddit
I don't view every Palestinian as an enemy. I recognize the simple truth that it's a war between Gaza and Israel. And both have a civilian population.
ArCovino@reddit
How does this remove Hamas or get the hostages back?
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
Because these are quite literally the demands of Gazans.
They are also reasonable.
These Israeli crimes existed long before Hamas. They are the entire reason Hamas exists.
ArCovino@reddit
What is “Palestinian territory” that is being occupied that removing the occupation would be enough for Hamas to disband?
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
The internationally recognized borders. The ones Israel continuously encroaches, builds settlements on, builds appartheod roads on etc etc.
ArCovino@reddit
So Jews don’t have a right to return to “Palestinian” land, but Palestinians anywhere have a right to return to anywhere in Israel?
When you say “internationally recognized borders” then are you saying the right of return would only apply within those borders? Because that’s not what Palestinians mean. They mean all of Israel.
So the demand is to give Palestinian a state, while also dictating Israeli immigration policy? Can Israel dictate Palestinian immigration policy?
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
What are you talking about?
Jewish people who have never stepped foot inside Palestine can currently move to Israel and claim land where Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from.
Palestinians who were born in Palestine cannot return to their own land.
If a Palestinian wishes to return to the lands that Israel cleansed them from. Then they should have this right.
It's funny that the things you have issue with, are the things Israel currently does daily to Palestinians. I fail to understand why you have such double standards?
ArCovino@reddit
How many generations of Palestinian diaspora should be allowed a right of return before it’s too many?
DweebInFlames@reddit
Why do Jewish people get to return to the land 3000 years after they were expelled (never mind the fact that a lot of Jews kept living there regardless) when a non insignificant number were converts from other ethnicities who never had any genetic connection to the land?
Phent0n@reddit
Because the Jews want an ethnostate where 'they are safe', and nations can dictate who comes into their borders.
If Israel allows ALL (they have accepted deals where SOME are allowed) of the Palestinians the right of return, that safe ethnostate ends. Unless of course they go full South Africa which would be even worse than what we have now.
If you think that is unfair, it is, but that's what you get from conflicts and proto-nations created out of history as far back as the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
As many generations as Israel allows for Jews.
runsongas@reddit
as many as for the Jewish diaspora if you are going by fairness
else it would be a double standard
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
If you're going to dodge everysingle question put towards you, while continuing to ignore points and responses then I'm going to check out of this bad faith chat.
LanaDelHeeey@reddit
Are they the demands of Gazans, or the demands of HAMAS? I thought it was common knowledge that the people of Gaza are not represented by HAMAS.
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
The majority of Gazans are minors because Israel kills the rest. If Hamas leaves, another group who also wants an end to the occupation takes over. 95 percent of Palestinians support resistance against Israel.
Palestinian resistance is across many groups, it's not not only Hamas fighting agaisnt Israel brutality.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/23/palestinian-rivals-hamas-and-fatah-sign-unity-deal-brokered-by-china
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/23/palestinian-factions-accord-china-talks
Love_JWZ@reddit
That would be a grand victory for Hamas.
Saa-Chikou@reddit
Me when I don't realize I just acknowledged that Hamas is fighting for a cause most people would consider just in my virulent hatred of the Palestinian people
Phent0n@reddit
You know Hamas is also fighting to end Israel completely, right?
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf
19.There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, Judaization or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.
20.Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
Love_JWZ@reddit
I never said it's cause is unjust. It's the means that are wrong. And them achieving a just cause, is not gonna set free those hostages.
DweebInFlames@reddit
What hostages? Israel has bombed the area flat and starved the civilians out. The reality is there's probably very few of the hostages still alive, if any, and it wouldn't be surprising if we never find some of the bodies.
Love_JWZ@reddit
That is an assumption. One i've heard multiple times before the last 33 live Israeli hostages were freed.
If that this time around, it is actually true, and no live hostages are left, and that argument is to be used against Isreal, saying they don't even have a just cause while implementing their monsterious means, Hamas should simply say so.
At this moment, around 20 hostages are still presumed alive. Do you think Hamas should free them, or better hold on to them?
AnUninformedLLama@reddit
So you’re telling me Hamas are actually fighting for freedom??
Love_JWZ@reddit
While in their brutal ways, having mostly taken that away.
AnUninformedLLama@reddit
You said that freedom for Palestine will be an “overwhelming victory for Hamas”. So that essentially means (according to your own claim) that Hamas indeed are freedom fighters lmao
Love_JWZ@reddit
But if they are freedom fighters, what have they acomplished?
AnUninformedLLama@reddit
You must struggle with reading comprehension. I didn’t claim they are freedom fighters. If freedom for Palestine would be a “overwhelming victory for Hamas” AS YOU CLAIMED, then Hamas are indeed just freedom fighters BASED ON YOUR LOGIC. Does that make more sense now?
Love_JWZ@reddit
The point is, would you support freedomfigthers fighting for freedom by taking civilian hostages? Yes or no?
travistravis@reddit
Treating them like human beings would be an overwhelming victory? It's almost like they were fighting an oppressive regime and wanted to be treated like people all along.
Love_JWZ@reddit
I am not saying Isreal should continue with it's colonization, oppression or blockade, nor saying it is legitimized in that. Merely engaging with the question of Hamas.
The question is if relenting would save the hostages. If they do that in response to the hostage situation, it would not decimate Hamas, but instead, grand them an overwelming victory, which comes with a ton of political power.
sensiblestan@reddit
Have you ever once considered any alternatives yourself?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Not engaging in conduct that only bolsters Hamas? Demonstrating a good faith willingness to work towards peaceful coexistence? Not propping up Hamas and others in order to stymy Palestinian unity and undermine the Palestinian government that actually cooperates and works with Israel?
I guess there's no alternative
ArCovino@reddit
How does that remove Hamas and return the hostages?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
How does starving them of recruits and demonstrating that a government that's willing to work with Israel isn't going to result in being treated like apartheid South Africans remove Hamas?
That is your question?
ArCovino@reddit
Israel has worked with Hamas in the past and it caused accusations of them propping up Hamas or using them as a foil against the PA. You even suggested this as well.
So, how does it remove Hamas? Is the PA going to do it? With what army?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
The only way Hamas is going to be 'removed' from Gaza is with the cooperation of the residents of Gaza themselves. You don't gain that cooperation by killing those same residents in job lots. You don't gain that by showing them that they'll still be treated like garbage even if they renounce violence and cooperate with Israel. You gain that by demonstrating to them that Israel is an entity that they can reasonably expect to deal with in good faith.
travistravis@reddit
Believing that Israel will ever deal with them fairly in good faith will be quite difficult.
BlackJesus1001@reddit
Given they've been acting in bad faith for at least fifty years yeah it's unfortunately going to be a hard sell.
Jordan is a living example of what Israeli "friendship" looks like, the west bank, annexation of water sources and massive amounts of displaced people to support.
Egypt has regular clashes over border control and has to put up with Israel sabre rattling (repeatedly bringing up the idea of forcing Gazans into Egypt en masse).
Syria got bombed, then invaded despite the new government being heavily opposed to Hezbollah and Iran.
Lebanon got invaded again and was subjected to a large scale terrorist attack by Israel that exposed civilians in the tens of thousands to booby trapped electronic devices.
Realistically Israel's current form probably needs to be dismantled in some way, like imperial Japan in the 30s-40s they've got that nasty blend of ultranationalist, expansionist, security state mindset that simply cannot seem coexist peacefully with their neighbours.
adminofreditt@reddit
None of the comments actually answered
TraditionalGap1@reddit
3/6 of the comments answered, and yours is one of those that didn't.
adminofreditt@reddit
Look at the time, when I wrote this there were no answers
TraditionalGap1@reddit
... so there were only two then?
ArCovino@reddit
Of course not because they don’t have another solution besides asking Israel to roll over.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Ah, yes. Committing genocide and then stopping your crimes is rolling over. What a fucking joke. The overton window in Israel ranges from Mussolini to Hitler.
ArCovino@reddit
Does not “committing genocide” “stopping crimes” remove Hamas? Because that’s what we’re talking about.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
We don't have to validate Israel's war aims. Fuck Israel. We shouldn't attempt to moralise or even rationalise their actions.
Their whole war is illegal and immoral. An occupying power doesn't have the right to defend itself from resistance to its occupation.
Israel should be treated like the pariah it is and sanctioned by all countries.
ArCovino@reddit
Are you arguing that all of Israel is occupied Palestinian land? Because Gaza was not under occupation.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Since Israel is a settler colony, obviously all of historic Palestine is occupied.
According to the ICJ, Gaza is occupied (and has been occupied at least since 2007).
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
‘Historic Palestine’ which state would that be? The British Mandate? The Ottoman Empire?
ArCovino@reddit
Palestinians owned every inch of land? Theirs forever in perpetuity? The nationality that didn’t exist until the 1960’s? Not a “fact” lmao
And the ICJ certainly does not recognize all of Israel as occupied land so do you support their position or not?
Terrh@reddit
Your wilful ignorance is quite dedicated.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
They did own a majority of the land, and they were colonised by Britain at the time.
Nation states are a modern invention. It literally does not matter. Would you use the same arguments for all indigenous groups that were colonised?
Does not matter, Israel is factually a settler colony so it is illegitimate.
They are also factually occupying Gaza.
ArCovino@reddit
If you’re saying nation states are a modern invention, then how did Arabs claim every part of the area? Under which borders? Jews have always lived there and migration happens all the time. Did Arabs also own the land where Druze lived? Or Bedouins?
Agitated-Quit-6148@reddit
Ugh. So sick of hearing about Palestine. Thank god it is being addressed in the US
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Truly the most intelligent and moral trump supporter.
Agitated-Quit-6148@reddit
They have lost. It's that simple. The icj, icc, un, blah blah have no relevance. Literally has real world meaning.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Always the fucking idiots that believe might makes right. Reactionaries with no moral code and no ideology.
Agitated-Quit-6148@reddit
I'm over it
Mo4d93@reddit
How does it feel to be so hated by the rest of the world? Israeli tourists are being banned from countries and advised not to show their national identity in other places they visit, including in Europe.
Agitated-Quit-6148@reddit
I'm American but donate heavily to Israel. People can hate them, but Israel exists. Lol. Better than not existing and having to.......lol
DeliciousSector8898@reddit
Gaza most definitely was under occupation unless you’re going to tell me this entire list that says so is actually wrong:
“the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, UN General Assembly (UNGA), European Union (EU), African Union, International Criminal Court (ICC) (both Pre-Trial Chamber I and the Office of the Prosecutor), Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch,” as well as “the International Federation for Human Rights; the Geneva Academy’s Rule of Law in Armed Conflict Project; Médecins sans Frontières; Minority Rights Group International; Al-Haq; B’tselem; and the Center for Constitutional Rights.”
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/
ArCovino@reddit
From your article-
“While they acknowledge that Israel no longer had the traditional marker of effective control after the disengagement—a military presence—they hold that with the help of technology, it has maintained the requisite control in other ways.”
“Occupation is defined in Article 42 of the Fourth Hague Convention:
“Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.”
While Israel is not a party to the Fourth Hague Convention, this convention is considered customary international law and, therefore, still binds Israel. Whether a territory is occupied is a question of fact, meaning that it is solely governed by the facts on the ground, not whether the relevant governments perceive themselves as occupying or occupied.
Under this factual inquiry, a territory is considered occupied when it falls under “effective control of hostile foreign armed forces.” Traditionally, effective control requires three main components: the physical presence of a foreign military without consent; the inability of a local sovereign to exercise control because of foreign forces’ presence; and the imposition of occupying forces’ authority. However, some components of effective control are still debated, particularly whether military presence is an essential condition, whether it requires the ability to exert authority or the actual exertion of authority, and whether the occupying power must have exclusive authority. An occupation generally ends when the occupying power withdraws, retreats, or hands over authority to a local government.”
It is a highly contested issue, and should take into consideration Israel’s withdrawal 20 years ago.
Yes, I think those groups hold Israel to a higher standard than they do other groups. It’s discriminatory. Like so many other things they have to stretch definitions and interpretations to new heights in order to make these claims.
DeliciousSector8898@reddit
Hilarious they’re all “discriminating” against Israel. Damn somehow it’s more believable that all of those highly credible and diverse organizations are out to get Israel than Israel actually it just occupying Gaza.
ArCovino@reddit
Yeah antisemitism is wild I agree.
DeliciousSector8898@reddit
You’re really trying to tell me all of those organizations are anti-Semitic? You’re that delusional?
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Your question inherently removes the humanity of millions of Palestinians and also the fact that Israel only able to conduct their ethnic cleansing with support by the US and other Western nations.
The alternative clearly entails nations to actually take a stand against Israel and foster an actual diplomatic resolution that takes Palestinians into account. We have not seen that in the slightest. It’s in Israel’s short term goal to see Gaza inhabitable so they can ache once their long term goal which is the annexation of Gaza and cleansing of all Palestinians there.
It’s in the US interests because it serves as a proxy in the region for their own geopolitical aims. The alternative is very easy to grasp but it runs against the goals of the powerful actors in the region.
ArCovino@reddit
Lmao it is YOUR question!
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
I asked a question and you repeated what I asked. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is. No semblance of an answer only the question just repeated back because you don’t actually care to ask yourself if an alternative is possible. But as always mental gymnastics are required to justify ethnic cleansing.
ArCovino@reddit
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask you the same question you ask of others.
I don’t think there are many alternatives. Hamas is armed and dug in.
Terrh@reddit
What do you call the mass killing of civilians then, exactly?
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
If you provided an answer to my question and then asked the same of me I would take you more seriously. The question is deliberately posed to people who already subscribe to the way you think about the situation. People who disagree with you already are constantly pleading or advocating for alternatives. You are being asked something specific and it comes off as bad faith when no answer is given and simply repeat what was asked.
FlyingVolvo@reddit
If you actually gave a damn about the hostages you'd ask yourself and not just using them as a talking point, even if you ignore the monstrous and abhorrent moral and international consequences of willfully creating the third famine of the twenty-first century(Don't take my word for it, take it from Jake Sullivan), do you think the hostages live independent of the food situation in Gaza, and in light of the testimony of all the returned hostages who endured deprivation of food and water you think this benefits the hostages? Give me a fucking break.
ArCovino@reddit
I didn’t bring up saving hostages I was just replying to the comment that did
Round-Friendship9318@reddit
Says a lot you want to starve millions Just to remove Hamas.
ArCovino@reddit
I’m not sure why you think that. OP wants us to ask what is the alternative, so I am asking that.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Clearly not THIS alternative.
SunriseHolly@reddit
What are the other possible alternatives?
this_dudeagain@reddit
It's just medieval siege tactics. Now would be a good time to release the hostages and Hamas to surrender. The people aren't going to put up with this for very long.
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
Supported by the US, Germany and the UK *
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Supported by almost the entire western world. Australia, Belgium, Canada and France and all the rest. The only western country that seems to be suggesting it stop is Ireland.
Soe-Vand@reddit
Yes, this is clearly the fault of… Belgium.
The Hamas tankies truely are a interesting bunch.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Denmark too.
Soe-Vand@reddit
How about Peru and Mongolia ?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Nope. I don’t think they support Israel’s genocide. Or do you have information you wish to share?
Soe-Vand@reddit
You retards made the claim with no arguments so it’s kind of difficult to asses how you came to the conclusion that Belgium, Iceland and other nations are responsible for the conflict in Gaza.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I didn’t say all those countries are responsible, just that they support the atrocities.
Soe-Vand@reddit
Fair enough. How does Iceland and Belgium support “the atrocities”?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Iceland? I didn’t specifically mention Iceland. You did. Did you get Iceland and Denmark confused? Did you forget which flair you picked?
Belgium used to sell arms to Israel but has stopped now. It still buys Israeli weapons, propping up the Israeli economy.
Denmark still sells weapons to Israel.
In both cases they support Israel diplomatically, denying that genocide is taking place and letting Israel continue. Have you never heard the phrase “the standard you walk past is the standard you accept?”
finalattack123@reddit
Denmark supports it.
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6364/Denmark’s-double-standards,-denial-of-genocide-in-Gaza-are-flagrant
Rigo-lution@reddit
Spain too I believe but yeah, this is the most mask off moment yet for western liberalism.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Spain is still authorising new and exciting ways for Israel to mass murder Palestinians. So no, not Spain. Spain is firmly on the side of enabling and supporting genocide.
Ali_Cat222@reddit
Trump wants to remove all help from UN. This is currently in progress for next policy to pass from project 2025-
Check_Me_Out-Boss@reddit
What does sustainable food production have to do with a lack of food in Gaza?
Ali_Cat222@reddit
To expand on this, basically what this means is eventually they don't want to help any country with UN food programming eventually. There's more than these two policies for this coming, but these are the ones in progress right now. It's not just within Gaza, it'll be anywhere the USA helps. Trump has it in his head that the USA helps others too much and doesn't want that anymore.
Check_Me_Out-Boss@reddit
Well, the US is 1 country out of ~190 and provides ~20% of all funding.
Ali_Cat222@reddit
Yes it's not the only place on earth, but it's unfortunate to not help at all.
Check_Me_Out-Boss@reddit
I don't think that will happen, but other countries need to pay their fair share.
S01arflar3@reddit
Yeah, fucking Somalia always mooching along!
Ali_Cat222@reddit
They've already passed a few policies that have made this a reality though. These aren't just ideas, they are policies in place currently and passing in courts now.
Check_Me_Out-Boss@reddit
They're only withdrawing funding from certain UN organizations like the Human Rights Council, which has been an absolute joke for ages.
Command0Dude@reddit
UN has been harping this "gaza is about to starve to death" talking point for literally a year and a half at this point yet there has not been any rise in famine related deaths the entire time.
I think the UN has seriously hurt its own credibility by constantly predicting imminent catastrophe that never materializes. Contrast with Suden where there is a much more verifiable famine being caused by a real lack of aid.
wewew47@reddit
Do you not agree that there is a lack of aid in gaza?
It is a verifiable fact that not a single aid truck has entered gaza in 2 months. It is also a verifiable fact that Gaza required roughly 5000 aid trucks a day during peacetime.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out the impact of that.
ShikaStyleR@reddit
*500 not 5000 and those trucks didn't just include food, but also building material, medicine and clothes. The amount of food trucks needed was about 150 per day.
Not sure where you got the 5000 number from.
wewew47@reddit
Sorry that was a typo, yes it was 500. I will edit my comment to clarify.
Yes, not all those trucks were food, of course. But my point stands regardless. There is no aid entering at all, we know how much aid was required during peacetime, when demand was lower, supplemented by working bakeries, limited farmland etc.
So it doesn't take a genius to figure out what will eventually happen if not a single drop of food enters in 2 months to a population that doesn't have the capacity to make their own food at present.
ShikaStyleR@reddit
Sounds like something that Gaza's elected government should take care of
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Do you think they should cross the border to where the IDF is stopping aid trucks, kill all the IDF soldiers there and take the aid trucks across the border? That's the normal response if a group of genocidal monsters blocks food for an extended period of time. Are you really advocating for this? Odd. I thought you were blindly pro-Israel and pro-genocide...
wewew47@reddit
What a disgusting and inhumane comment to make. What went wrong in your upbringing to cause you to victim blame people starving to death.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Famine does not equal mass starvation. Famine simply means a large scale scarcity of food for a population. The damage done by famine goes beyond starvation. It creates desperation, trauma, poverty, and leaves a population susceptible to disease.
The conditions for widespread food scarcity is caused by Israeli forces and all the harm it’s causes millions is further proof of their indifference to Palestinian lives in Gaza.
Azurmuth@reddit
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/famine
https://www.wfp.org/stories/qa-why-do-people-have-die-famine-declared
According to the WFP definition of famine around 420 people a day in Gaza would die of starvation if it were a famine. (2/10000=0.02%. 0.02% of 2.1 million=420) That would mean that the famine deaths would outnumber all other deaths reported by Hamas since 7/10/2023 in 131 days.
If the IPC prediction of a famine in Gaza starting in May 2024 were true,that would mean according to the WFP definition that around 138k gazans has died of starvation.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
“Illness and death” two factors heavily present in Gaza due to Israel.
Azurmuth@reddit
Due to starvation.
Nileghi@reddit
How many died of illness?
PreviousCurrentThing@reddit
What sources would you find credible?
nacholicious@reddit
That assumes famine in all of Gaza for the entire duration of the conflict, which isn't really the argument.
The UNs argument is that strict blockades have led to famine mainly in northern Gaza after supplies have run out.
Command0Dude@reddit
Thanks. It helps to have actual sources showing this stuff. It gets exhausting relinking stuff so I'll save this for the next time someone else tries to do this semantic gymnastics crap.
Nileghi@reddit
I swear to fucking god, the way theses definitions are being tortured to fit political agendas is actually getting on my nerves.
YES A FAMINE THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR THE PAST 16 MONTHS WOULD EQUAL MASS STARVATION. THATS THE CLAIM THE UN HAS BEEN PUSHING FORWARD.
ANYTHING ELSE IS CALLED FOOD INSECURITY.
Command0Dude@reddit
In this case it does because the UN, activists, and other humanitarian orgs have all been arguing that mass starvation was weeks or months away and were doing that all through 2024.
I saw claims insisting that Gaza was supposed to have had so so many people die that it should have been depopulated by now based on how little aid was supposedly making it into Gaza.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Look if you don’t know what famine means that’s something you will have to work out on your own. I understand people think famine = mass death from starvation but it is far more complicated than that.
“Apologetic guessing”? Journalists from around the world have always been barred from entering Gaza by the IDF since the war began.
You are making shit up when you declare the claims made by those ON THE GROUND IN GAZA were wrong.
Command0Dude@reddit
Are you illiterate? I did not say famine when I was talking about mass starvation deaths. I specified claims about mass death on purpose because I knew people like you would intentionally try to move the goalposts on my comment. You know, since mass death events did not occur.
Because they actually were wrong and we now have the benefit of hindsight to see they were wildly over exaggerated claims. One example from google: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/if-they-are-not-killed-ongoing-israeli-bombing-400000-palestinians-could-be-starved-death-northern-gaza-enar
Meanwhile, we do know that the claims about famine in Sudan DID result in more people than that dying. It's not feasible to have a famine where people don't starve to death lol. The idea that Gaza could be in famine and have no food coming in for over a year but somehow people aren't dying from starvation is ludicrous. Meaning that more air must be getting into Gaza than is being claimed.
The real amount of aid flowing into Gaza is clearly imo much more than is claimed by the UN and other organizations, but also probably much less than Israel claims. Unfortunately there appears to be no credible organization that can provide an accurate estimate.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
They haven’t only been claiming mass starvation will happen anytime now. They have been accurately warning about the devastating impacts the Israeli blockade is causing to the civilian population of Gaza. And most of what they have predicted is happening. An increase of disease transmission and malnutrition is occurring in Gaza. A significant consequence of Israeli action. Especially propagated by the destruction of almost all healthcare facilities in Gaza. Not just the blockade of food.
Command0Dude@reddit
And yet in spite of their deprivation they have not been genocided to death like so many bleating morons online were arguing they were. Malnutrition and disease and loss of healthcare are things that happen in war. War is inherently destructive. But what seems to me is clear that there is a lack of mass killing going on which many have claimed is the intent of Israel.
There was no mass starvation deaths like was predicted.
I can maybe see arguments that an ethnic cleansing was intended, but it is very hard to take people seriously when they argue it on account of how much credibility they have lost. This is the problem when people make wild, unsubstantiated claims like "gaza is being starved to death it's a genocide."
Mo4d93@reddit
No aid has entered Gaza in 2 months. Have you not been following the news?
Command0Dude@reddit
No. I actively don't follow Gaza news since I have pretty much accepted that accurate reporting is impossible at this point.
Truth will only come out well after the fact.
Mo4d93@reddit
The truth is no aid has entered Gaza in 2 months. Not a single truck. No one is denying that, not even the IDF.
Command0Dude@reddit
We'll see if there's mass starvation death, but I'm skeptical.
Either aid is actually flowing in spite of the news and they want to stay quiet about it or they'll resume aid shortly and were merely attempting to scare Gaza.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
It always devolves into what “war” means. We are discussing a war that is facilitating ethnic cleansing. In case you forgot.
You are conveniently ignoring all that was predicted by groups like the UN as if that proves anything. You simply think 2 million Palestinians are expendable. Full stop.
Command0Dude@reddit
This is the problem with you people. You think that because I doubt that the deaths of 50k palestinians indicates a genocide that I have no lines Israel could cross where I wouldn't condemn them.
If 2 million Palestinians were killed, it'd be an unambiguous genocide.
The problem is the word "unambiguous" because clearly pro-palestinian cause has a very low threshold for that word. Such that if applied to other conflicts, would classify most war as genocide (thereby rending the term meaningless).
As for me. I'd say anything that is an unambiguous genocide must as least kill (as a percent) an amount of the population nearly equal to the Holocaust (so, 40-60%) when genocide first was recognized as a specific crime.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
As you say, the term genocide was coined in the 1940s and many historians have looked back at many conflicts over thousands of years and established the conditions meet numerous conflicts that don’t meet your own personal definition.
Command0Dude@reddit
Most genocides that occurred in history were only able to be determined in hindsight with the benefit of much more evidence than exists at the moment about Gaza. Like for instance, internal government documents detailing plans to conduct genocide.
You got anything like that to offer?
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
You are asking me to provide internal evidence from Gaza (which the IDF has made impossible to access) after denying what many internationally recognized humanitarian groups have already assessed with all available facts?
Command0Dude@reddit
No I'm asking you to provide internal evidence from Tel Aviv.
Did you not recognize a rhetorical question when you see one? You seem to have problem properly reading comments.
Literally that was my point. You can't provide me what I asked you. It's impossible to prove there's an ongoing genocide, because the conflict is not so glaringly extreme as to make the need for such evidence moot.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Ohhh. You want me to find the classified documents in the hands of the IDF that determine genocide is occurring. Like the documents that the Nazis left behind that explained the Final Solution and its logistics. You’re fucking insane to ask someone that and also deny what human rights orgs are reporting regarding Israel’s genocide.
Command0Dude@reddit
These human rights orgs are untrustworthy and largely haven't produced hard evidence to back up their claims. Maybe if they had some pictures of concentration camps in gaza and hidden graves containing hundreds of thousands of untold dead, I'd believe these genocide claims.
It's actually insane to me that you're demanding that I just believe there's a genocide without any evidence to support it. You realize that hardly anyone believed in the holocaust until after they filmed the emaciated jewish survivors and the death camp ovens right? And they then had to publish all those documents left behind to back that up? You're acting like I'm applying some special standard here to give Israel a get out of genocide free card.
At least if there was a massive body count to the conflict you'd have something to point to. At the moment you've got literally nothing. Not even pictures of emaciated crowds of Gazans.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
“Just believe there is a genocide” while also discrediting multiple human rights organizations that have international credibility for a reason.
They have been considered trustworthy for conflicts like Ukraine or Afghanistan but now that they dare broach the subject of the Palestinian genocide they are “untrustworthy”. Get a grip.
Command0Dude@reddit
Credibility that they have lost with me due to making apoplectic claims that later turned out to have been over exaggerated.
I disagree. Organizations like Amnesty International have especially lost all credibility due to the way they have portrayed the war in Ukraine.
And some of these organizations have lost credibility due to similar claims they made in Iraq. Like there being over a million dead civilians, which was way higher than turned out to be the case.
Also. Just in case it needed to be said. Yes it's entirely possible for an organization trusted in other conflicts to lose its credibility in Gaza when anti-semitism is such a world wide problem.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
You forgot to mention your desire to have me infiltrate IDF headquarters AGAIN to find the evidence for genocide. You asked not me.
Command0Dude@reddit
I don't have any desire for you to do anything. Again, do you understand the concept of a rhetorical question?
The point of my comment is that it is impossible for you to prove there is an ongoing genocide and it will require time and hindsight to parse out fact from fiction. I expect it could be years before the question is even remotely clear.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
The crux of my initial comment was how can people who support what Israel is doing to millions of people not even once question if there is any alternative when the harm is so well documented. You decided to argue things aren’t as severe as the UN claimed. The lives and their well-being do not factor into any of your comments. You then went further and demanded the impossible. You are doing what is called obfuscation.
Command0Dude@reddit
So well documented by who? What well documentation? Literally nonsense.
It's not called "obfuscation" to be skeptical about a false narrative being perpetuated for the sake of enabling what seems like a propaganda campaign. You notice how many muslim nations make up the UN vs how many Jewish ones?
Both sides spend their time making up so many lies about everything going on that there is no need for me to obfuscate anything. It's already clear as mud.
I'm not demanding the impossible. I'm demanding the necessary. If you can't provide evidence at a much higher standard than has been seen so far, you don't get to call anything a genocide.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
The crux of my initial comment was how can people who support what Israel is doing to millions of people not even once question if there is any alternative when the harm is so well documented. You decided to argue things aren’t as severe as the UN claimed. The lives and their well-being do not factor into any of your comments. You then went further and demanded the impossible. You are doing what is called obfuscation.
self-assembled@reddit
There absolutely was. Dozens of children and infants died directly due to malnutrition last year, then the ceasefire allowed more food in, and now children and infants with malnutrition are filling up the hospitals again today.
Command0Dude@reddit
Damn, dozens of people in a city of millions. That's no different than the first world. You know about 20K people starve to death in America every year despite an abundance of food and many food aid programs?
This isn't the gotcha you think it is.
self-assembled@reddit
Israel is openly saying they haven't allowed any food into the entire region in two months. They are telling the world starvation is the plan. And you're trying to defend it by twisting logic.
Love_JWZ@reddit
I mean, any city in the world must be like two weeks away from mass starvation if the supplies stop. For Gaza, the supplies have now completely stopped.
ShadeOfUnderstanding@reddit
Before replying to this morally questionable human being, take a look at their past history before eating your time and down vote.
happycow24@reddit
Hey remember how you pro-Palestine Burgerlanders were calling Biden "Genocide Joe" and positing there is no meaningful difference between Biden/Harris and Trump on Gaza? On how you're taking a moral stance against the mainstream Democrats?
Do you miss Genocide Joe yet? Or will it take the full realization of Bibi and Smotrich's Generalplan Sud-Westen (Gaza) for you to realize that by voting for Jill Stein or staying home, you effectively signed Gaza's death warrant?
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Hey remember when Joe Biden facilitating genocide? The perspective of voters is what cost Harris the election. Not their fantasy you’ve have made up in your mind. Dems lost for a reason. I blame losers when they lose. Not the people the Democrats failed to earn the support of.
happycow24@reddit
Well I hope you're happy with what's gonna happen (Smotrich's Wet Dream) because of your action, or lack thereof. Because a lot of Burgerlanders voted for a less-than-desirable candidate because they understood what was at stake.
wewew47@reddit
It's sad that you're such a sycophant for Biden that you actually appear to react with glee at gazas fate.
What was at stake? Americans being made to feel American imperialism and fascism being brought home for once? America has always been like this to certain groups of people. The failure of Americans like you to fight this, to nip this in the bud when it was 'only' being done by America to people in far off countries, is a major contributor to your current issues.
Voting for the leader evil and refusing to hold the Dems to account has to work every single election without fail. Eventually the republicans, led by a trump esque figure, were always going to have a win.
Palestine protesotrs tried to avert that by bringing about change in the Dems, but they and their blue maga voters would rather lose an election to Trump than cease their genocide.
You voted for genocide. Normal human beings have genocide as a red line beyond which they could never support someone. I'm sorry you weren't raised that way.
happycow24@reddit
I'm not a Burgerlander though how could I have voted for genocide?
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Again. No accountability for those who had the responsibility to earn votes. Just smug nonsense by someone who doesn’t give a shit about Palestinians.
happycow24@reddit
Are you positing that I'm a Democrat? Because I'm not even a Burgerlander my guy.
You're right, I don't really care about Palestinians in particular. I do, however, care about other places that are now negatively affected by the US election though, like Canada.
But you know, if I was a Burgerlander and did care about Palestinians, I'd still have voted Democrat, in spite of their faults. But I'm not a Burgerlander.
REKTGET3162@reddit
Oh don't be like that , Biden at least built a pier. Sure it wasnt used to feed Palestinians but instead kill 400 of them before abandoning but it's the thought that counts right?
arostrat@reddit
Biden was doing the same things. I don't think you care one bit this a just pathetic attempt to make your sports team look better.
-OhHiMarx-@reddit
Are you really trying to easy up on... Biden?
happycow24@reddit
In simple terms, yes. Sleepy Joe/Harris was indeed better for Palestine than Trump. And now the entire world, including Gaza, has to deal with whatever clowns in the WH are planning with that ICC indicted satanist Bibi. Good job.
-OhHiMarx-@reddit
How? Because Biden would use some harsh language?
happycow24@reddit
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-biden-administrations-vision-for-postwar-gaza/
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0j8063plvdo
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-unveils-new-gaza-truce-proposal-hamas-responds-positively-2024-05-31/
Keep pretending there's no meaningful difference vbetween Biden//Harris and Trump. Keep lying to urself if that's what it takes for u to keep up the kayfabe, that pro-Palestine supporters in the US who didn't vote for the least bad of the plausible outcomes, however horrific it may have been, bear no responsibility for their own actions or lack thereof.
I'm just a Canuckistani with some hot takes.
-OhHiMarx-@reddit
Yep you are. We don't forget "Rafah is a red line".
Shortymac09@reddit
More the disinfo memes being posted *constantly* on left leaning subreddits, always with a tag line of "so be sure NOT to vote" had an impact on 2% less of the electorate showing up to vote in 2024 versus 2020, leading to a Trump win.
Ancient-Watch-1191@reddit
The whole of the West are co-perpetrators to this genocide.
Every single political leader of them should be on in the dock of the ICC in The Haag.
The Germans knew but did not see the ovens of Auschwitz. When this Palestine genocide ends, no one in this world will have the excuse of plausible deniability. To remain silent is to be complicit. The latter also applies to our media elite.
As Martin Luther King Jr. said in 1968, "in the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends".
Soe-Vand@reddit
Is the legal basis in the room with us right now ?
Ancient-Watch-1191@reddit
Trying to stop an ongoing genocide is an obligation for every nation under Article 1 of resolution 260 A of the UN charter on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
TheGreatJingle@reddit
So when are we all going to war with China then?
Soe-Vand@reddit
Before we jail the political leadership of Iceland and Luxembourg would you mind summarising your legal background ?
Ancient-Watch-1191@reddit
Is it your intention to harass me?
If not, please stop. I have no interest in you and neither in your opinions.
If so, I will report you.
Soe-Vand@reddit
Here is article 1. Where is your legal basis to jail the all political leaders of the west?
https://digitallibrary.un.org/nanna/record/666848/files/A_RES_260%28III%29%5BA%5D-EN.pdf?withWatermark=0&withMetadata=0®isterDownload=1&version=1
ScaryShadowx@reddit
They always were. The Nazis wouldn't have faced any opposition if they were just rounding up and killing Jews within their own country. It's they went to try and take the rest of Europe that got the world involved.
Ancient-Watch-1191@reddit
Agreed!
HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE@reddit
The rest of the Middle-East not lifting a single finger nor sending a single aid package is laughing at your statement right now.
You've just showed you've never cared about the fate of Palestinians and simply wanted an easy way to justify your hatred of anything deemed "western".
Ancient-Watch-1191@reddit
"The rest of the Middle-East not lifting a single finger nor sending a single aid package is laughing at your statement right now."
This video explains why:
Where are the Arabs?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
I wonder if the people will quietly starve or overthrow hamas.
Biosterous@reddit
I wonder if Palestinians will fight for their lives or quietly accept genocide at the hands of Israeli?
MikusLeTrainer@reddit
Can someone more knowledgeable about the workings of the UN explain this to me? It says in the article that the Israel has blockaded since March 2nd, then how was the UN delivering food for the last two months? Was it food that was already within the Gaza Strip prior to March 2nd? Also, how likely is this to cause mass famine? I know there has been concerns since the beginning of the war, but only a small number of people have died from starvation from what I understand.
HireEddieJordan@reddit
Once the blockade started all shipments stopped.
WFP stockpiles goods in country and February they were reporting that they got 3x-5x more in compared to Oct-Dec when things were previously critical. They also provide financial assistance to local sources of food and families to provide some shock absorption. (They should also have an "extreme emergency" stock of fortified biscuits)
Famine wise we are in similar territory as last year, a large portion of the population hit "phase 4-5" , this triggered alarm and a temporary surge of aid brought it back down to "phase 4", conditions again deteriorated just prior to the ceasefire and a temporary surge staved it off.
Also the IPC famine threshold requirements have been under scrutiny because the situation on the ground has not been conducive to a data based approach.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
The food went into HAMAS bunkers so they can endure the war longer.
AutoModerator@reddit
The link you have provided contains keywords for topics associated with an active conflict, and has automatically been flaired accordingly. If the flair was not updated, the link submitter MUST do so. Due to submissions regarding active conflicts generating more contrasting discussion, comments will only be available to users who have set a subreddit user flair, and must strictly comply with subreddit rules. Posters who change the assigned post flair without permission will be temporarily banned. Commenters who violate Reddiquette and civility rules will be summarily banned.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.