Rejected a flight instructor job because I was sketched out
Posted by ProbablyAHuman713@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 82 comments
Hey, I recently made contact with a flight school a couple of hours away from where I live in the U.S. I was offered a job as an instructor, but I turned it down because it sounded kinda sketchy, and I'm worried I made the wrong decision. They had no interview process and wanted to throw me into their ppl ground school and have me 'compete' (he actually said compete) with other instructors for time in the plane. I sent my application and was offered a job the same day, about 2 minutes into the first phone call, and said I could even start in a day or two if I wanted. I don't know anyone there, it was a shot in the dark for me. As far as I can tell, doing more research into the school, it's an actual flight school, but I can't find any former or even current instructors online. I was wondering if I made the right decision because I'm not getting any responses back from other schools. Should I reach out again and see if the offer still stands? The whole process felt off, he didn't even want to meet me before letting me teach his ground school...
snowclams@reddit
There is a 141 university school out there that I applied to a year or two ago. Did the initial interview, and was subsequently "offered" the opportunity to come to that state, find a place to live for two weeks out of pocket, go through a form of extended evaluation, and at the end of those two weeks I might be offered a job at that university.
I stared at the email, laughed, said "thanks but no thanks," and took another offer elsewhere. That's just insulting, especially given the often-limited income younger CFIs tend to have.
Boli737@reddit
In this current environment, everyone is competing for flight time and since hiring has slowed way down compared to 2021-2023, there is a plethora of instructors as they have no where to go. It’s not like you had to move across country, the flight school was a couple of hours away.
Easy-Trouble7885@reddit
In Aviation, trusting your gut sometimes is the right thing to do. Competing for flight time doesn't seem a healthy work environment...
MichaelOfShannon@reddit
I have yet to see a flight school with a healthy work environment
buzzybootft@reddit
EVA FTA at KMHR pays instructor livable guaranteed salary, with 2 days off minimum, with overtime pay, 8 hours a day. Best I’ve seen in the industry as a CFI. Also paid training for one month before you step foot with a student to keep everyone safe and standardized
Bluzzard@reddit
How do you like working there? Good quality students? Also what nation are they from?
Bunslow@reddit
my part 61 instructors seem comfortable with their job, if not necessarily making bank.
the pay is mediocre but the owner isn't a dick, and that goes a long way
Easy-Trouble7885@reddit
Lol fair enough, there are some better than others tho and we like to complain about everything regardless
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
Thank you that's all I needed. I'm just worried i wont get another offer for a little while with this cyclical nature of this industry.
GustyGhoti@reddit
It’s a good interview answer/story about your integrity and being able to say no.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
Not a bad idea. Thanks!
After-Yogurt1702@reddit
"Name a time you had to make a difficult decision " Or "Describe a time you made a decision based on safety."
This is absolute gold for those.
Drunkenaviator@reddit
Absolutely. Looks very good on him for saying no to easy flight time/career progression because it raised some red flags.
81dank@reddit
You made the right choice. Don’t second guess yourself
gromm93@reddit
At the same time, it does happen all over the place. Prime example, which is public knowledge: Buffalo Airlines.
A fair number of smaller-than-regional airlines operate on the principle that you can work your way up through a company from the bottom for less shitty positions, which demonstrates a person's motivation and incentivises them to work hard at a job they could hardly get people to work at minimum wage.
redditburner_5000@reddit
Can mean different things.
Could be that he meant you just fly the couch in the lobby until a student walks it. The CFI who does the time at the office will win the students.
I don't see how it could be an actual head to head competition.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
I'll have to second that. A wise man told me when I was starting out that there are people in this business you can't afford to work for.
mrivc211@reddit
Jesus Christ. This generation. My mentor was a captain for morris air before Southwest bought them. When Southwest bought them all the pilots had to re interview as a formality. He walked into the chiefs office, handed over his resume which was placed in a drawer immediately. He and the chief discussed sports. He thanked him for coming in and said he will be in touch. He started training 1 month later. This is how aviation has been for a long time. You guys are afraid of your own shadows. For the love of god take one freaking risk in your life without running to the internet looking for confirmation you’re doing the right thing.
jlvit@reddit
For the love, go screw yourself. I'm sorry you were too afraid to stand up for yourself, but don't expect the next generation to bend over and beg you to fuck them like you got fucked.
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
Yeah no way, you should be given an interview and be checked out in the aircraft prior to being allowed to teach anyone. If the flight school is that relaxed about putting students lives in your hands, what else are the cutting corners on?
Their airworthiness? Inspections? APs? Etc. Sounds like you will either get in deep shit with the FAA or die lol
AmbitionEducational3@reddit
If the vibe is off, the vibe is off.
Large-Rich9088@reddit
What does the average initial FW flight instructor make an hour?
FlightDirectorFD@reddit
Trust your gut ! And also I think you did the right thing !
Typical-Buy-4961@reddit
Always trust your gut. I will however say, no matter what; at the CFI level you will compete for flight time. I know career CFIs that netted 6 figs 10 years ago and even they were in competition with others. It’s part of the thing honestly.
andrewrbat@reddit
here's your reminder that not only are they interviewing you for a job, but you are also interviewing you. they didn't make it past the interview. thats how it works, and good job putting your foot down. someone will take that job. but you just may read an article one day that makes you glad it isnt you.... or you wont but you will still be glad you stuck with what felt right and safe.
Torvaldicus_Unknown@reddit
Back when I did line service I quit a job because I was afraid to fuel their Navajo they wanted to fly with 3 dead cylinders. And they mixed ~6,000 gal of AVGAS with like 4,000 gal of MOGAS.
flyingforfun3@reddit
Hey, I walked away from a job offer flying convairs down to South America out of Miami over a decade ago. Sometimes multi turbine time isn’t worth it. Trust your gut.
dopexile@reddit
Just make sure to turn off the transponder and fly low to avoid radar coverage.
Wanttobefreewc@reddit
This is the way
Only-Tomorrow606@reddit
American made job
TheBadgersWake@reddit
Whoa whoa buddy you can’t just tease us like that. We want more. Was the interview in a shady strip club and were the questions about your comfort level flying over max gross?
flyingforfun3@reddit
It was actually over the phone with an international number. 😂
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
I'd imagine it felt kinda bad for a little while, wondering if you made the correct decision.
flyingforfun3@reddit
For sure, I definitely debated it if I did the right thing. But two months later I’m getting a PIC type in a jet, instead of a SIC type in an old turbo prop.
You got nothing but time ahead man, you’ll find that CFI job you want. I did this route.
If you got your tail wheel endorsement, you can look into banner towing.
Aerial survey is another option, I had a few friends travel a big chunk of the world doing it while building time.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
I'm looking at all my options right now. Something will come eventually if I keep focused. I have a semester left for my associate's degree, then only another couple for a bachelor's so hopefully that helps too. Thanks for sharing!
beckaroo3912@reddit
Sounds like a school I interviewed at a few months ago. It wouldn’t happen to be in North Carolina…would it?
Slight-Power-2878@reddit
Was this job by chance at an airport outside of Chicago flying light sport aircraft?
Brilliant-Hat3143@reddit
By outside of Chicago, would you be referring to due North of Chicago an hour or so?
Slight-Power-2878@reddit
Nah due west
Brilliant-Hat3143@reddit
Roger that, thanks. Was just curious, an FBO with LSA's in my neighborhood just had a CFI leave for a regional right seat, was hoping for some good dirt. IOW nothing sketchy going on there that I know of, but I'm bored.
Field_Sweeper@reddit
How is that even a question? Of course you dodged a bullet.
NecessaryLight2815@reddit
You made the right decision. Sounds like a horrible place!
Drunkenaviator@reddit
You 100% made the right call, that sounds sketchy as hell. Always trust your gut, especially as you get more experience. When something feels "off" there's almost always a good reason for it.
flyingwithfish24@reddit
That flight school for the streets. Flight schools especially the shady ones are starting to pull crap like this with the hiring environment cooling off. Expect to see other flight schools charge for interviews and flight portions of that interview. Or have a flight school hire you and never give you students. If it don’t seem right it ain’t worth it. Stick to your gut!
JJAsond@reddit
Yup the sketchy one that was nearby to wanted to do that but I don't deal with sketchy shit like that.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the tips. Haven't had anyone try to charge me yet but I won't be surprised when it happens
HistoricalAd2954@reddit
About 2 years ago I interviewed for a flight school. I drove 8 hours to interview. When I got there they asked me some questions and then we walked out to the plane, they said “hey just a heads up most flights we do we are taking off with full fuel and above max gross weight” “if we were to ever have an accident and the FAA investigated they would for sure drag you through the mud.” The planes they were using were only certified in the aerobatic category which reduced their max gross weight so it was relatively “safe” but the truth is you never knew when you weren’t“safe.” Long story short I didn’t take the job. It was hard as I was REALLY desperate and that was my only interview in months. About a month later I interviewed for a flight instructor job and I make more than about 95% of most flight instructors. It pays to go with your gut. You never know what’s around the corner. Keep your head up, a great opportunity is right around the corner!
hhfugrr3@reddit
Did you ask them why most flights take off above max weight? Seems an unnecessary risk when they could just not do that.
HistoricalAd2954@reddit
To add fuel to the fire, they didn’t hold any insurance
hhfugrr3@reddit
Wow I'm not surprised you walked away. I can't imagine those planes were getting much in the way of top quality maintenance or inspections either from a company like that.
HistoricalAd2954@reddit
I think their maintenance was actually fine. They would overhaul 1 plane per year? (Again sorry it’s been awhile). Obviously I never spent much time with the school so I don’t know if it was quality maintenance.
I remember it was really hard walking away because again I was so desperate. I couldn’t find anyone hiring anywhere in my area at all
HistoricalAd2954@reddit
Max gross weight on the plane was 1650? If my memory serves me correct. Most students were 200+ lbs. I would have needed to have been like 145 lbs to be within max gross weight. Being under max gross was just an impossible task with the average size of Americans nowadays in that plane
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
Wow.. thanks for sharing
BraboBaggins@reddit
“Throw you in PPL ground school and compete” what does this even mean, throw tou in ground school??? Like do ground school again, they oay you for this time youre in this ground school???
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
Sorry, it wasn't super clear.. He wanted me to teach the ground school not participate in it.
BraboBaggins@reddit
Oh I see, based on that alone its a no for me. Youre there to build hours so I 100% understand why youd turn this down.
ronerychiver@reddit
If they’re willing to make you compete during the interview, you’ll be competing every day you work there. If you work in sales, an aggressive hard-charging attitude might be the way to sort em. But in this business, aggressive and hard-charging can lead to the ground at terminal velocity.
MrChillGuy24@reddit
Is said school in oklahoma?
capsug@reddit
The “compete” thing will trigger Reddit but that’s how the world works. To the victor go the spoils. Do you think it will be a “competition” with a hundred ATP’s clawing over each other for every airline job for the next however many decades?
FriendlyDespot@reddit
We embrace the positive and mitigate the negative to make the world worth living in. Competition for a job is a necessary fact of life, but perpetual competition in your job is just a source of stress that nobody needs to normalise if it can be avoided.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
I get your sentiment but don't agree
Reaver_XIX@reddit
Sounds sketchy, think you made the right decision OP
not-a-pilot-yet@reddit
"let the hunger games begin" 5 unshaven cfis start punching each other over getting an airplane and a student. Anyway sounds like it was pretty sketch so good call
MrFulla93@reddit
Could’ve been a situation where they want you to go out and find your own students, so they’ve got the plane(s), but want you to go out in the world and find students, not the hardest thing in the world.
It’d be hard for me to turn something down since it’s damn hard to find a job right now, but if your gut said “no” I don’t think it’s a bad decision to listen to it
davidswelt@reddit
I think the way it was explained to you maybe spooked you. What might have been happening there is an offer for you to show your face in ground school, maybe teach a class, talk to students, and then maybe some of the students will book you as their flight instructor? You'd likely be paid based on actual work with students -- no guaranteed income.
This doesn't seem too bad or out of the ordinary. It's just that some flight school owner who was a bit full of himself explained it to you in a somewhat intimidating way.
Going forward -- just like the school should probably do better due diligence and who they bring in, you should probably have stopped by in person to check it out, maybe check out their ground school meetup and so on.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
I probably should have asked to stop in, and I definitely will in the future, but I'm sticking with my gut on this one. I spoke with my double I instructor, and he said based on what I told him, he would have turned it down also, even with no dual given hours.
davidswelt@reddit
That's perfectly ok. If you have a personality clash now you'll have that later too.
Spartan158@reddit
Sounds like the correct choice. There are a lot of unsavory boomers in this industry looking to take advantage of newcomers that don’t quite understand the ‘rules’
VirvekRBX@reddit
Similar situation couple months ago. Long story short they wanted me to sign a term contract. If I break it I’d have to pay them $X to them. (I didn’t do any training or get paid for any training)
Major red flag. My first job offer and I rejected it.
DiamineViolets4Roses@reddit
I know jack about jack, but younger me worked a handful of these “we all compete for the work” kind of jobs in other contexts.
Far as I can tell, the concept is BS and the person hiring this way doesn’t have a functional biz model. Their model is to have “an” employee (CFI) on site to do any work that walks in, and the rest of the 1099s just sort of push their own selves out the door and aren’t the owner problem. Imagine that.
I have no right speaking to CFI jobs generally, but I can smell a crappy company who wants to avoid employee relationships a mile away and this is one in any industry.
TheDoctor1699@reddit
That sounds sketch. Sounds like a good call in my opinion.
Ill-Region6927@reddit
Every flying job I’ve had I’ve never had an “interview” for, which I like because interviews are stupid anyways. But you lost me at the “compete for flight time” part I’d say hell no
Fit-Bedroom6590@reddit
When you mind decides it is always better to vote with your feet. Intuition is more times right then wrong.
Anthem00@reddit
i think that you're expecing something way more formal for something that in many cases - just isnt. Yeah, maybe a bunch of 141's have real interview slots with chief pilots, and a proper pathway. But many part 61's are mom and pops. . They had an instructor leave, and they'll hire the first qualified CFI that enters and sounds interesting to them. By "compete" my guess is that they are saying they have a few instructors and you're responsible for getting customers, or giving discovery flights and that you're personality and teaching style will win you out some students.
But again - those are just conjectures. If you arent comfortable, then you arent comfortable. Find someplace and some process that you are comfortable in. But dont complain if you cant or there is no one hiring when one presented it to yourself and you turned it down.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
I am not complaining, I said I am not getting responses from other schools. I know it's a tough market right now.
TemporaryAmbassador1@reddit
I have walked away from a potential job too, multiple times.
Maybe it was a mistake, but the bigger mistake would be taking it and finding out your initial instinct was right afterwards.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
It doesn't feel good for the first couple of days, but looking back, I'll probably laugh that I even considered it.
PlasticDiscussion590@reddit
If there isn’t any competition for the job in today’s market I’d be very concerned why that is. I think you made a good decision.
ProbablyAHuman713@reddit (OP)
Just gotta keep practicing my instruction skills and networking 👍
ErrorLongjumping@reddit
As a lowly student pilot I’ll say always go with your gut. If it didn’t feel right it just didn’t feel right.
hzjohn@reddit
Trust your instincts
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hey, I recently made contact with a flight school a couple of hours away from where I live in the U.S. I was offered a job as an instructor, but I turned it down because it sounded kinda sketchy, and I'm worried I made the wrong decision. They had no interview process and wanted to throw me into their ppl ground school and have me 'compete' (he actually said compete) with other instructors for time in the plane. I sent my application and was offered a job the same day, about 2 minutes into the first phone call, and said I could even start in a day or two if I wanted. I don't know anyone there, it was a shot in the dark for me. As far as I can tell, doing more research into the school, it's an actual flight school, but I can't find any former or even current instructors online. I was wondering if I made the right decision because I'm not getting any responses back from other schools. Should I reach out again and see if the offer still stands? The whole process felt off, he didn't even want to meet me before letting me teach his ground school...
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
Questions about this comment? Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.