why hasnt m&s quality gone down the toilet?
Posted by Opposite_Pack_1484@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 455 comments
Excuse the loaded title, but to my shock and horror I just found out m&s is publically traded.
Im sure as many of us have noticed, most places (especially big corps) have taken to raising prices and cutting quality of everything because muh profits must go up, but it seems that m&s is one of the last few places that seems to still be relatively affordable while being great quality most of the time.
Its become a bit of a habit for me to go to tescos/sainsburys, see that the price has gone up 20% and the ingredients have been swapped out with filler or some other crap chemicals, then go m&s or waitrose and grab a way higher quality product for marginally higher or even cheaper in some cases!
Even with clothes, ive given up buying mid range clothes, ive just started buying things mostly from primark as they are cheaper and last longer than half the clothes on the high street, then just go to marks for workwear and such.
Basso_69@reddit
I reckon they have a senior team that recognises that quity brings profit, not a race to the bottom.
There was a time when I wouldn't be seen in M&S clothes. Now I find that they are good quality, good value for a high street purchase.
BowiesFixedPupil@reddit
I too used to be young but am now old
WeWereInfinite@reddit
Not quite.
M&S knew they had an image problem and nobody under 40 would buy clothes from them, so they hired the former Topshop/Topman director to manage their clothing departments.
So yeah getting older probably plays a part, but they're actively targeting a younger audience with their clothes now.
Guyver0@reddit
I also feel M&S's clothing is aiming at the staples of a wardrobe. Yes you might get some crazy coloured patterns at H&M but every needs a pair of brown chinos.
AwTomorrow@reddit
Huh, I still feel like Uniqlo does the same but better and cheaper
glasgowgeg@reddit
Here's the number of M&S shops in the UK.
Here's the number of Uniqlo shops.
There are only 4 outside London, and one of those is Oxford. Significantly more people have a local M&S compared to a local Uniqlo.
Ireastus@reddit
Man, thank you for posting this. As someone who has never seen one before, I felt like I was going mad on UK centric subreddits with the number of people talking about Uniqlo.
temujin_borjigin@reddit
Good to know there’s one up here. Next time my M&S chinos rip in the crotch I might have to give them a go.
trysca@reddit
Uniqlo quality is not all that - I'm very impressed with my stretchy grey m&s chinos for £25 - I used to pay 90+ quid when I lived in London
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
I have tree trunks for legs, think someone who plays for Saint Helen and chases an egg shaped ball. I don’t but you get the picture.
trysca@reddit
My old celtic turkey drummers won't be doing with jeans full stop - come out in a rash
Imaginary_Fish086378@reddit
Or Costco. People love Costco.
I’ve never seen one in my life - I’m from the South East, but not the part that gets shops.
notouttolunch@reddit
Costco Wholesale is a wholesaler, not a retailer. Sometimes people confuse the two
pajamakitten@reddit
I thought it was online-only.
wrongpasswordagaih@reddit
Yep very annoying that they haven’t opened more shops, very good quality for the price though
Vivaelpueblo@reddit
I would like to go shopping at Uniqlo but there isn't one within 90 minutes of where I live so that's not happening.
liseusester@reddit
M&S a) is everywhere and b) does them well for a greater number of body types. I haven't got a Uniqlo near me so don't want to do the dance of "am I anywhere between a 12 and a 20 in these jeans" and have to return them by post after trying them on. I can go to M&S after work or on the weekend and try on five pairs of jeans, make a note of what size I am in which style and then buy a few pairs over the next couple of pay periods.
ftoomch@reddit
As a fat bastard, I can also add that M&S caters for me, and Uniqlo does not!
Routine_Ad1823@reddit
But do they?
NeddTwo@reddit
They certainly don't. I wouldn't be seen dead in a pair of chinos, and definitely not brown!
InfiniteAstronaut432@reddit
Not unless you were really scared just before you died.
Interesting-Ad8640@reddit
Even models look awful in chinos. They are the most unflattering trousers ever
Hellsbells130@reddit
Speak for yourself.
Guyver0@reddit
Two pairs for you!
Hellsbells130@reddit
😂😂
NeddTwo@reddit
No! No, they don't.......
bonjourmiamotaxi@reddit
Not unless you're James Acaster or Shaggy.
TheoArchibald@reddit
Their issue with clothes was that year they decided to go full brown when no other company did.
Now their gear is very good, fashionable enough and is of much decent quality. I think my clothes are pretty much either M&S, Jack&Jones or Adidas.
Vivaelpueblo@reddit
I lot of my clothes are from Costco. It's good quality and often very good value. I'm fortunate to have one near me.
ashishdt123@reddit
I think they did something similar in India where they opened a store and sold really high quality stuff in all sizes and the design was classy European. They were known for their formal wear so much so that tourists would go & shop there. The quality now has gone the drain.
TREBILCOCK@reddit
Oh thank god
Mean_Apartment7373@reddit
I see you, fellow man of corn.
Toffeeman_1878@reddit
Mike? 1966?
havingmares@reddit
I’m with you Trebilcock, I went in there recently and was worried that the clothes looked good and I must be getting old, but actually just think they’ve got better!
Proper_Cup_3832@reddit
Denial. Apparently it's a river in Egypt...
So my Nan would say 20 years ago while shopping in M&S. She still shops there today. But yes, it's them that changed. Not us 🤣
Ok_Comfortable_5173@reddit
That’s funny because I’m 22 and buy m&s clothes purely because of the quality and price. No one I know my age would be caught dead in m&s clothes
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
When I was your age, I was buying £300-£400 a month worth of clothing a month. Some months I’d spend more. Clothing was a lot cheaper to buy them. You could get a good quality made, Henri Lloyd bomber coat for £150-£200.
I had a lovely white, with white and red stripes, Paul smith sports, jacket, that cost me £140, the T-shirt was £90. I had Airmax 110s when they cost £110 back then. A but of Lacoste, loads of adidas jackets, a few Nike track suits. Things that weren’t cheap, stone island wasn’t much more but I didn’t see the value in it, at the time. I wish that I would have done. The same with Paul and shark.
I should have bought less and had more Italian clothing, as it was made in Italy back then.
bizzflay@reddit
Also have a designer that use to be at Reiss. They always had decent clothes and seems like alot of the same stuff you use to find in Reiss.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
Reiss is a brand that I like but they only make clothing for the super skinny and not people who live in the gym, like I do.
violated_tortoise@reddit
I've found they're the only place that does mid-priced jeans that aren't total shit now, so have really started using them recently. Next and the like seem to do various price ranges of jeans from ~£25-45 and all of them seem to last me 6 months max now.
I've bought the ~£35 mid-range m&s ones and the £65 "premium" ones and both seem way better quality than anything else I've bought in recent years
purplechemist@reddit
Look, if the worst comes to the worst, they’ll always be able to scale down to just selling men’s socks and pants. Probably the most sustainable element of their entire range.
Positive-Nose-1767@reddit
I only wear jeans from m&s they are thr best and also it is basically the same dress styles and fat face, white stuff, seasalt just not £60-100 becuase just no
tasteslikepurple6@reddit
Whatever they were doing circa 2015 actually worked on younger me, and I ended up with a wardrobe full of Marks and Spencers clothes.
I remember all the ads, each autumn making a big deal about their coats.
glasgowgeg@reddit
Until 2023 that was their last dedicated menswear campaign. They stopped them between 2016-2022.
cats4lyfbanana@reddit
This also now vintage 90s velvet M&S is my jam
HoneyFlavouredRain@reddit
That was around the same year I started buying clothes too lol
wildOldcheesecake@reddit
I mean they’ve always been decently popular when it comes to kids clothes and school uniform.
DameKumquat@reddit
They have a bunch of different ranges aimed at different age groups. As I found out when staff suggested I look at the stuff under the poster of Honor Blackman. Tbh, the trousers fit...
No-Bill7301@reddit
Dont forget m n s has had a huge rebrand/launch which is ever evolving of their clothes lines over the year, they're now some of the best around and look great. Likewise, their food was completely dying and they were in a lot of trouble years and years back but they rebranded and relaunched and they're killing it.
Bright-Dust-7552@reddit
Not that I'm disputing it but when was m&s food dying? Just trying to place it on the timeline of my life because I had one m&s meal when I was growing up, which my mum made a big deal about, and tbh it was incredible, and then as a young adult it was always considered exceptional quality.
Pattatilla@reddit
Used to work in the food hall. M&S have cut back on some lines to focus on quality and retaining profit share after closing 50+ stores over the last 8 or so years.
Will forever have brand loyalty, the best employers I ever had! You used to get paid a dividend as a staff member so random bonus every quarter was much appreciated!
No-Bill7301@reddit
I believe it was in 2018 they had their worst ever for sales after scrapping popular deals, they’ve been reinventing their food for years, I don’t even recall them selling food in the late 90s but I could be wrong
Ok_Manager_1763@reddit
Late 90s was when M&S clothes dived (they sacked many of the in-house designers around then) and the food side started booming so they started opening food-only stores.
Sea_Enthusiasm_3193@reddit
All the young dudes?
welovetulips@reddit
Ha I was about to say the same thing. We grew up
pajamakitten@reddit
Perosnally, I have never not had clothes from M&S. I guess I picked it up from my mum but 90% of my clothes come from M&S and Next.
welovetulips@reddit
My elder daughter would come home after PE day wearing a m&s polo top instead of the Asda one she went to school with. No name. I thought it was hilarious.
DivineDecadence85@reddit
Approaching 40, it horrifies me how much time I now spend in M&S.
embarrassed_caramel@reddit
Currently strutting about in M&S jeans and telling everyone how comfy they are 💅
claypolejr@reddit
They really last too. Of course, now I need a new pair everything's sold out, locally and online, and nothing new is coming in. Worldwide jean shortage - the horror.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
They aren’t bringing out as many new clothing, as they have done in past years but I see that as a smart idea, in today’s times. My blood orange, M and S, rain coat is the best £110 that I’ve spent.
StressedOldChicken@reddit
Their women's 'horseshoe' jeans are great! Every time I've worn mine I've received compliments and they're incredibly comfy (even if I do look like a pirate in them - bonus!!)
liseusester@reddit
M&S jeans and a Seasalt top. I am indeed nearly 40! But I am comfy and not completely un-stylish.
automatic_shark@reddit
Used to be a complete Levi's snob, but I cannot justify the price anymore with their quality dropping. M&S has filled the niche just fine, and I couldn't recommend them enough
jasminenice@reddit
I've found my people.
aussieflu999@reddit
Same. I’m currently loving M&S.
Gadgie2023@reddit
Same here.
The high point of my Christmas Day was getting a 5 pack of M&S socks.
crywankinthebath@reddit
Same for me but with boxers! Only ones I wear
aedithm@reddit
Turned 40 this year and suddenly find myself doing my weekly food shop at M&S and with a wardrobe full of their clothes. Like it happened overnight. Terrifying.
WS8SKILLZ@reddit
In 27, and always have a cheeky look at the clothes.
NITSIRK@reddit
Ha, I wore them back when the label said 99% of our clothes are British made 😳
Moist_Bet_4368@reddit
Or St Michael !
nicofdarcyshire@reddit
I have an amazingSt Michael jumper from a "family dead bag*" that has been with me for about 25 years. It must have been a good 5-10 years old at the time.
*So, we're mental. When someone dies in my family, they kind of chuck some things in a bin bag, and we grab something to "remember" someone by. My granddad's jumper. I still wear it.
CaptainTwig572@reddit
I think that's brilliant and honestly the name only adds to it.
Aromatic-Rice-1930@reddit
Mental, but also quite sweet
thelouisfanclub@reddit
Same and guaranteed these are some of the best quality clothing items I own! I have my grandmas jumper and i wear it SO often, it's a proper loud 80s pattern and so warm and nice.
purplesweetparakeet@reddit
I truly feel I am slowly turning into my mum
Ok-Blackberry-3534@reddit
You are mummified.
Isgortio@reddit
They used to be great for buying cheap bras in sizes most other shops didn't stock as a teenager, especially since my sizing would change so quickly.
New_Pop_8911@reddit
My daughters both love m&S and are only 19 & 21 and far cooler than me lol. I don't think their jeans can be beaten for price and quality, plus the range of sizes and lengths is great, I have incredibly short legs and have to cut the bottoms off most high street brands.
Practical_Narwhal926@reddit
i’m the same age as your daughters and m&s definitely isn’t somewhere i’d go to buy clubbing outfits, but my god do they do brilliant basics especially if you’re petite!
New_Pop_8911@reddit
Jeans, t-shirts, swimwear, underwear, pjs, knitwear, handbags, dresses are all firm favourites but yeah, club wear isn't really an m&s staple lol. Oh actually, eldest bought some wet look leggings from there that she's definitely worn on a night out or two
Practical_Narwhal926@reddit
I buy all my thongs from m&s now because they’re cotton and much comfier than the stuff marketed towards women my age (like those horrid primark thongs)
its_the_terranaut@reddit
My very old Levi 514s died a horrible death last year; bought some new ones and the quality is not the best.
'Why didn't you go to M&S, like we do?' said both daughters, 21 and 18 respectively?
I now know better.
New_Pop_8911@reddit
It was jeans that finally got them to shop there, just before the pandemic eldest wanted a good pair of jeans. We must have bought and sent back about ten pairs from various places that just weren't right, took her to m&s and for £29.50 she got exactly what she wanted.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
I made my own mother start buying M and S clothing a few years ago. She now looks stylish, instead of wearing cheap market clothing. Her abusive ex husband never used to let her spend her own money, that she worked for. Used to really frustrate me.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
I had a young barber asking if my body warmer was a Canada goose version, it very much wasn’t, it was M and S. Canada Goose is cutting as many corners as stone island and North-face.
Interesting-Pay-8986@reddit
We are chic now
JennyW93@reddit
I haven’t verified this, but I heard somewhere (almost definitely on Reddit) that the M&S clothes person now used to be the Topshop person. I’m sure you can tell by my technical phraseology that I know all about the fashion industry.
Leading_Study_876@reddit
Mere multimeters??
JennyW93@reddit
haha what an odd autocorrect. But I stand by it
Leading_Study_876@reddit
And coincidentally I'd just finished a comment complaining about exactly this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/1k7oh12/will_apple_ever_fix_its_keyboard/
Inevitable-pearl@reddit
Do you mean their Buyer?
JennyW93@reddit
No idea, you’ve surpassed the limits of my expertise
sheargraphix@reddit
It's my go to place now. Good quality and generally decent prices for unbranded clothing.
dkb1391@reddit
Found my self wearing nearly all M&S the other day, how times have changed
Circle-of-friends@reddit
I have a theory that the average age on reddit is way older than people would think. Like 30+, if not 35+. All the kids are on tiktok
Ronnie_SoaK_@reddit
I'm on the edge, my wife keeps pointing out clothing, so far I'm resisting, but her arguments are valid, and it is hard to disagree about the quality.
cactusplants@reddit
I used to wear m&s clothing for school uni, seemed to last and be better quality than the supermarket stuff
Kindly_Climate4567@reddit
They actually sell fashionable clothes now.
AlternativePrior9559@reddit
😂😂😂
Minute-Vast7967@reddit
Honestly M&S was the only place I could buy school trousers that actually fit me. Guess I was ahead of my time 😅
Basso_69@reddit
But Im only 21 😉
bopeepsheep@reddit
I'm 53 and I have been buying jumpers and shirts there since the 1980s. In my skinny goth/hippy phase M&S men's cotton jumpers had just the right 'too big, hangs over my hands' fit. I didn't move into buying their women's clothes until I was nearly 30, when Dorothy Perkins was just not my thing. They have good and bad phases but their very basic clothes have always been OK - if you need a black tshirt that isn't going to be a grey misshapen rag after 4 washes, M&S.
Monsoon_Storm@reddit
get the packaged meals on offer (often 3 for 2) and they are incredibly affordable.
Moreghostthanperson@reddit
My daughters love looking around m&s for clothes, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by their selection for older kids because when I was their age I would never have considered looking in there for clothes. I saw it as an old person shop.
But they do some nice bits for older kids.
Salaried_Zebra@reddit
My experience of their clothes is quite the opposite. Bought a couple of shirts,a couple of pairs of trousers and a pair of boots for starting a new job. Cost over £250, and the shirts washed like dishrags, the trousers shrank to fuck all and the soles fell off the boots, all within 2 months of purchase, and yes I followed the washing instructions.
I'm of the opinion that affordable, decent quality clothing and footwear is nonexistent in this country anymore.
Moreghostthanperson@reddit
I was talking about the children’s clothes, maybe the quality differs there.
madsauce178@reddit
I think the quality is great, compared to more expensive brands.
Basso_69@reddit
Ive noticed that M&S othing has improved dramatically since they've been buying brands that have gone bankrupt.
I assume they've adopted the pattern makers from these companies to improve their own lines.
Opposite_Pack_1484@reddit (OP)
as long as you stick to basics like meat and certain vegetables it is marginally more expensive, i remember during covid we used to buy from lidl and 8/10 the fruits were always rotten from the inside out
Carbona_Not_Glue@reddit
Lidl seem to have worked on that. I haven't had one in a while. I remember those days though, around that time I would buy everything but fruit from there.
Financial-Couple-836@reddit
I got a fruit basket from M&S once and now normal fruit is ruined for me
DrHenryWu@reddit
Fruit is meant to taste
Individual_Bat_378@reddit
If you buy via Ocado they price match with Tesco and refund you the difference as well. We definitely spend more than we did at Asda but we throw out a lot less, food lasts longer and is better quality. I think that although we spend maybe £30 more per shop we shop less often so it likely averages out similar tbh.
ShoogleSausage@reddit
There is no Orcado in Scotland
Basso_69@reddit
I made the mistake of not saying 'prepared meals'.
Your localidl must be a dissapointment. I lived near a Sainsbury's in south London that also sold rotten veg to customers.
-Starwind@reddit
Honestly some of their foods aren't bad priced, their decent pizzas are £6, which is the same price as a decent one (give or take) from other supermarkets, their pies, bakery goods are similar priced, obviously a shop is going to be a bit more expensive overall but I didn't find it that bad the other month when I did a shop there.
BroodLord1962@reddit
Sainsbury taste the difference pizzas are very nice and £4.75 so not the same price or even close. You can't compare a supermarkets own brand, like M&S or Sainsbury's to a branded one like pizza express. I do rate M&S food but people make me laugh when they claim it's the same price as the other supermarkets. It is more expensive, but depending on your taste, it's also worth it
-Starwind@reddit
M&S are £5.75
You just said Sainsburys are £4.75
Literally £1
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
I spent on £40 in Asda and got two days worth of meal for my tea. I had a few organic fruits and it was still that much. Not good value for money at all.
BroodLord1962@reddit
You said they were £6
Basso_69@reddit
Well, they do have to pay for high street Business Rates, or godawful rent in shopping malls.
HelloThereMateYouOk@reddit
I lived on their ready meals for many years when I was working in London and spending a lot of time commuting. They used proper ingredients and no nasty additives, the same ingredients that you’d use if you’d make it yourself at home. So I became a loyal customer of theirs.
Basso_69@reddit
Indeed, that would drive the cost up slightly.
In comparison to one big name supermarkets that oftrn uses ground up duck feathers to create a 'thick, glossy sauce' - esp in their chinese type dishes.
UlsterManInScotland@reddit
I work in a food production factory & we do several products for M&S & their audits ( surprise factory inspections) are stringent and they miss nothing, it keeps everyone on their toes
SilverstoneMonzaSpa@reddit
So you supply other supermarkets? I've noticed some M&S food is rebranded "finest" from other supermarkets, but I'm not sure if that's everything or just selections.
UlsterManInScotland@reddit
We do M&S, Tesco, Lidl , Costco and a few others but when we do a run of produce for M&S its exclusivity to their specifications & standards & definitely not rebranded “finest “range from anywhere else, ….can’t speak for others factories with other products of course
captainclectic@reddit
Where do you rate the others? M&S on top, then what if you don't mind indulging me
-Starwind@reddit
Ahhh I do not miss the M&S factory inspection days
ScumLikeWuertz@reddit
Costco is public and their stuff is fantastic, not all companies engage in race to the bottom tactics
Basso_69@reddit
?Huh?
Nice-Rack-XxX@reddit
Could also be that their senior team saw the gap in the market. When most of the other supermarkets are in that race to the bottom, why join it when there’s so much competition?
Seems that by offering quality products, at a slightly more expensive price, they actually have less competition, which drives prices down further.
The company I work for makes food for M&S and their base ingredients are to a higher spec than all the other supermarkets we supply… which is pretty much all the others, with the exception of Waitrose, as the stuff we do for them is fairly limited.
Quirky_Presence_926@reddit
I've heard that farmers/suppliers reserve their highest quality stocks for M&S as they pay more for it and and also have better relationships with them.
I think you're right about them finding a niche in the market as well as people in the UK happy to spend a bit more for good quality ( and not just posh people).
clydeorangutan@reddit
I'm definitely not posh and my go to shop is m&s. I'd rather pay more than deal with asda
Leading_Study_876@reddit
Their fresh chicken is excellent and not that expensive at all. Three chicken legs for £1.50?
And amazing, Waitrose is actually cheaper!
I don't buy beef or lamb from them often though!
Their fruit and veg are slightly more expensive, but they just don't go off, so much less goes to waste.
c0rtec@reddit
You a guy or gal, wtf, I wear Primark shit. “Seen dead in M&S”? Get a grip, dude or dudette?
Basso_69@reddit
Ok my Lord...
Mer_sea_man@reddit
This is a big thing, as well as creating customer loyalty.
When I graduated from uni (admittedly a long time ago now), I got a job as a training manager for John Lewis and Waitrose, and one thing we drilled into new staff was that we didn't want the customer to buy from us for that one transaction, we wanted them to keep coming back for the next 10, 20, 30 years. Part of that was offering quality goods, but it was also about the service.
One sales associate had an older customer who asked about buying a £5000 home cinema system that they didn't really want or need, they just needed a TV big enough to see when watching golf. The staff member talked him down to a £1200 TV, which the guy bought. We only found out about it because the customer's son came into the store and asked for the staff member by name to thank them for not ripping his dad off.
I used to roll this example out with every training group, because whilst we sold a cheaper item on that occasion, the staff member made those people trust us, and they'd keep coming back to us.
Responsible_Ad_9234@reddit
Completely agree, I think they’ve realised that they should just cater to the over 30s. Their whole attempt 20 years ago to be more trendy and target the Top Shop crowd failed because it ignored their core consumer. I’m soon 38, and I’d happily shop on M&S and Next compared to some places, as it’s guaranteed quality at a decent price, and it’ll last!
jasnah_@reddit
I fill my freezer with m&s food and spend on their credit card which gives me money back vouchers.
That plus rarely throwing out food has saved me money in the long run, as sainsbury’s and tesco just seem extortionately expensive now.
Basso_69@reddit
Thats a good thought. I should do a full shop at M&S and see how it vompares to supermarkets now. Im horrified at how much a weekly dhop is at the leading supermarkets nowadays.
BigPersonality6995@reddit
I always buy their shirts and trousers for work
Current-Lawfulness41@reddit
Love M&S jeans - fit perfect and so comfy
IamFilthyCasual@reddit
There are a lot of factors at play obviously, but first thing that comes to mind is - management. A lot of ceos lately walk into a company, make some sort is ridiculous and stupid change that seems good on paper and then walk away while the company burns because of their decision. For example they decide that if you want to use their product you NEED to create account in their app. So everyone goes and downloads the app and creates account. Not a single person likes that they have to go and do that and not a single person actually uses the app / account but on paper it looks like the decision brought in a huge amount of new customers. Even though it didn’t - they’re old customers who are just annoyed because now they’re inconvenienced by the app / account. 2 years later the ceo leaves for a different company where he says “look, I managed to bring xxx trillion new customers” and he gets the job and makes another stupid decision like that.
So if M&S has decent management that cares about the core values and not just the short term “profit” that’s why the quality is good.
Pale_Slide_3463@reddit
Well they changed the pizza recipe and it sucks now
notouttolunch@reddit
I think pizzas are the only things M&S do badly 😂
Pale_Slide_3463@reddit
lol it used to be really good, I used to add their chicken tikka and some extra cheese. But now even the taste of the pizza is just off
Cold94DFA@reddit
I shop at m&s and the prices have gone up several times in the last two years. You just haven't noticed.
Example:
Bacon/sausages buy two for £6 is now £6.50.
This is very consistent with other items especially meat, veg etc.
Really.
cgknight1@reddit
The quality of clothes at M&S have gone down the tubes with clothes - even ten years ago it was still possible to get "made in England" clothes - I have a Harrington jacket and an Irish linen suit that were some of last you could get.
You might the odd decent blazer and the like but it is hit and miss.
palpatineforever@reddit
100% i have vintage m&S stuff as well as recent. the quality has tanked jsut not as fast as other stores. Also they have switched to much cheaper materials as well.
notouttolunch@reddit
I don’t think it’s fair to say that. Fabrics have changed. Fabrics that clothes are made of now are easier to wash, easier to dry, require no ironing, can fade less and are far more comfortable against the skin.
Where apparently the durability has dropped, the last time I ironed a casual shirt was last millennium.
palpatineforever@reddit
that has happened but it is not all of the story.
There are a few places where it is noticable,
In cases where the same materials have been used it can be seen. for example older shirts in the same materials, cotton, linen etc being a better weave compared to recent ones. recent weaves being looser using less material so they dont wear as well.
Also with the blends they use, a lot of jumpers etc with more cheap man made materials and a smidgen of wool using a lable of "with wool" etc. they do the same with cotton and other blends so it isn't jsut about feel.
The same with jeans less cotton in them more elastaine so they wear out faster.
You can tell this by looking at older version of the same thing.
They are also using a lot of cheap viscose that just doesn't wash well, or dry well for that matter. The stiching is also not as good as it used to be.
M&S is not as bad as some other stores but overall their clothes are not as well made as they used to be. Heading more towards fast fashion, with a few items that are already in that camp.
notouttolunch@reddit
This sounds like just what I said. A change in comfort level caused by changes in fabric.
OneEnvironmental1362@reddit
Even their food is bad these days. The utter day i bought their chestnut - it was full of shells that i could not even eat couple of them. Similar story with other food i have tried. Sometimes i think reddit has too rosy a view of m&s or they have a dedicated reddit marketing team.
notouttolunch@reddit
I don’t even understand this comment. Do they only have one chestnut? Should chestnuts not be in their shells? Were they tinned?
Given that they have over 3000 lines I think you’d have to be more specific to say anything that people would be interested in. I am interested in what people think is better elsewhere, especially if it’s something that’s not from the esoteric ranges.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
Made in a certain country isn’t all that it’s made out to be. I’ve watched YouTubers that go to certain clothing manufacturers in China for very little increase in cost, per item, that add a lot better quality of material and construction methods.
Even made in Italy doesn’t mean that anymore in all situations, as they could place a tag of buttons on an item and then say, it’s made in Italy. A con I know but it happens a lot.m
The same in other countries.
notouttolunch@reddit
I remember the chappie that owns berghaus telling me that they moved manufacturing to china and the costs went down massively and the returns rate also went into single figures.
cgknight1@reddit
Well it comes to cost and QA/QC - no sign they are doing this or using better materials.
Opposite_Pack_1484@reddit (OP)
they still do made in england suits but the ones i saw were £250-300, I doubt handmade suit makers are a growing, nor low paid profession nowadays
No-Structure-8125@reddit
This is the issue. All these kinds of skills are dying out in this country because companies moved their clothes making abroad. So I'd imagine any English tailor that hand makes suits is charging a bomb.
callisstaa@reddit
Fitted suits are a high end luxury though tbf. Even here in China a fitted suit is £200 - £300. It might not sound like a lot compared to UK tailors but it’s expensive for most Chinese. It’s one of those things that you only need to buy once.
sween-p@reddit
I picked up some made in England T-shirts that are slightly nicer than the M&S Supima Ts but not >5 times nicer which was the difference when I picked up some when doing this week’s food shop.
The do just seem to get the right balance of customer expectations vs cost.
I have a spun & made in Scotland cardigan, you are looking at a similar cost to a nice M&S suit.
specofdust@reddit
£250-300 is about extremely cheap for a suit made in the UK. I'm actually astonished you can get one for under about £400.
BroodLord1962@reddit
I worked for an M&S clothes supplier over 20 years now, and I was based in one of their 3 factories in Morocco producing ladieswear. M&S have been making most of their clothes overseas for years and years.
textzenith@reddit
That sounds mad, have you posted your stories from that period elsewhere?
Also, Morocco is a good trading partner and we in Europe need to build them up as a friend.
BroodLord1962@reddit
Morocco was great and I loved working there, and made some great friends there. There were a lot of Brits working out there as managers to ensure the quality was correct. I'm just saying M&S like most clothing retailers in the UK have their products made overseas. It was a quick turnaround from Morocco. From leaving the factory, the clothes could be in M&S stores in four days. Back in the late 90's a living wage for a full time factory worker in Morocco was roughly £20 a week. The UK cannot compete with those wages. I think today most of their stuff is produced in Asia.
textzenith@reddit
Interesting. Thanks for the response- shukran bezzaf!
I hope you get the chance to go back there, they have better high speed trains than the UK now, lots of promise over there.
MasterFrost01@reddit
Yes, that was my first thought too. I used to get most of my plain t-shirts from them but I've been looking elsewhere as they've been so bad recently
sween-p@reddit
Try their Supima cotton Autograph Ts.
SneekSpeek@reddit
Yep so much less 100% cotton and linen, a lot of plasticy blends which feel god awful. A real shame
sween-p@reddit
If you are looking for an all natural blend, eg a silk, wool & linen open weave blend for summer you will be paying a lot more than M&S prices.
In reality adding some synthetic fibres to a nice blend from a good mill isn’t a terrible thing to do for a fabric destined for a £200-300 suit.
AussieHxC@reddit
Honestly I pick up the old St Michaels (M&S made in England) stuff in charity shops as often as I can. Despite the fact it's probably half my age, it's usually still in seriously good nick.
nomoreplants@reddit
Yes you do have to look at the labels too as a lot more acrylic/poly but they also always have natural textiles there too!
JavaRuby2000@reddit
M&S was always considered expensive but, quality. It was the Waitrose before people outside of London had heard of Waitrose. What has happened is that the other stores have caught up to M&S prices and M&S have stayed the same.
No_Nuns_No_Nuns_None@reddit
It has. I've always bought underwear from M&S. It used to last years and years, but these days I'm finding holes, threads unravelling and trimmings coming off within weeks.
IssacHunt89@reddit
I work at a place supplying M&S and they are anal on quality, the auditors don't take chances. It is by far the best ingredients going into the products for their lines. Let's hope they never change owners or plans.
Barca-Dam@reddit
It’s a choice they have made. And the truth is with a lot of the price rises we have seen, there isn’t that much difference between a Sainsburys and a M&S weekly shop. Sainsburys is still cheaper, but nowhere as cheap in comparison as it used to be
Opposite_Pack_1484@reddit (OP)
i bought some chicken breasts from sainsburys for £7, so woody they were inedible, went down to waitrose the next week and got some "higher welfare" ones for the same price, you could tell the chicken wasnt pumped full of hormones, night and day difference I dont feel like im a medieval peasant anymore.
Vyseria@reddit
I used to buy Lidl chicken breast at 6.19/kg. Since watching a farming show (Clarksons Farm, don't judge) I thought to be more ethical with my chicken choices...Waitrose, slower reared and higher welfare for only £7.08/kg (for 1.2kg packs). Hardly any white stringy bits to cut off, hardly any shrinkage when cooked and I get to feel good about helping the chickens. Wins all round.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
Is the organic chicken in M and S, the same type of quality? I’ve made chicken burgers from it and it was nearly £10 for two chicken breast but I think that it was worth it. The best chicken breast that I’ve ever had.
Not sure on the quality of M and S in terms of organic chicken and how they rear them?
Vyseria@reddit
It was one of the two 'more ethical choices' options I researched into but it is too out of budget (I do what I can, but I'm no saint)
Jumpy-Ad-2790@reddit
Good on you for being a bit more conscientious about consuming meat! Everyone being a bit more thoughtful does so much more good than a handful of people turning vegan.
audigex@reddit
I think this is the part that gets overlooked
Aldi or Tesco chicken might be cheaper per KG when you buy it raw, but it's injected with so much water that it shrivels like a prune as soon as you show it a pan
FairyDani92@reddit
I learnt this last night too. It's absolutely horrifying and we need to shop consciously to get improvement as consumers. You really do get what you pay for!
ASmallRedSquirrel@reddit
No chicken is "pumped full of hormones".
Nonce_Response_Squad@reddit
They are when I’m done with them
Salaried_Zebra@reddit
Username checks out
Flaruwu@reddit
Thank you for this image, u/Nonce_Response_Squad
BrawDev@reddit
Munch the ones out of Morrisons and tell me that. I've bought packets from there, that go out of date in a week that smell rotten the minute I open it, shelves of them just look like ghosts. It's actually horrible.
IOnlyUpvoteBadPuns@reddit
I think it would be more conclusive to look at the UK/EU regs banning the use of growth hormones in poultry, which have been in place since the early 80s.....but you do you.
BrawDev@reddit
don't trust it, big hormones at it
Appropriate_Dig_252@reddit
Get your head out of America's arse then.
David_is_dead91@reddit
None of that means it’s pumped full of hormones
LinuxMage@reddit
I wish there was even a waitrose relatively close to where I am. But.....nope. Waitrose hates the East Midlands for some reason, and the closest store to me is 40 miles away in the West Midlands (Lichfield)
Magical_Harold@reddit
Let me tell you a story, as a younger version of me I worked for a few months in a meat processing factory.
In this factory they made lots and lots of sausages, amongst many other things (but I was assigned to sausages), and these things pink things would fly out at speed from the sausage machine into a freezing cold trough. We would pick up 6 at a time and place them in a tray, load them onto a conveyer belt where we would see these flaccid, pink little critters disappear behind the curtain.
Behind the curtain wasn't Oz, but the wrapping and labelling section where the package would get shrink wrapped, and a sticker applied - what sticker you may ask? well that all depends, had the quota for Co-op, Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda been fulfilled? if yes then it was time to pick the M&S roll of labels.
FairyDani92@reddit
I was reading about this last night and I was horrified about how broiler chickens are treated in comparison to egg layers. Apparently the woody breast is a common issue due them being grown too quickly. It also causes their legs to break in some cases and broilers are packed into tiny places.
Apparently only 3.5% of broiler chicken is free range and most never see daylight and are slaughtered at 6 weeks. Apparently the best supermarket one is no.1 from Waitrose where the chickens roam free and grow at a normal more natural rate. M&S Oakham gold has ok standards too- they get 20% more than space standards.
As consumers i think we need to push for higher standards so thanks for supporting that.
jamscrying@reddit
M&S buy S grade Chicken the same as what a proper restaurant would be, the other Supermarkets usually buy A grade chicken, except for frozen and minifillets that are B grade.
highrouleur@reddit
sorry for a silly question, but could you explain how the grading works please?
catchcatchhorrortaxi@reddit
Lots of stuff I will pick up from wherever is cheaper. Meat I will go out of my way to go to M&S.
tiasaiwr@reddit
"There is hardly anything in this world that cannot be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey"
LinuxMage@reddit
Sainsurys is actually cheaper than Morrisons, Asda, and Tesco, sitting marginally above Lidl and Aldi for the average price of a weekly shop.
In order of pricing, its:
Waitrose M&S Morrisons Tesco Asda Sainsburys Lidl Aldi
textzenith@reddit
You forgot the Co-Op (which is so exorbitant you should probably put it high above the others in the URL bar, if you can).
Also, is shopping at e.g. a Tesco Express more expensive than shopping at say a Waitrose?
smellycoat@reddit
Where are you getting that list from? In my experience Sainsbury's is more expensive than Tesco and Asda.
LinuxMage@reddit
Ah, I've actually just looked and the tables have indeed moved a little bit.
Tesco and Sainsburys pricing seems to differ quite a bit if you use Clubcard/Nectar (which we do).
The new list is here -- https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/supermarkets/article/supermarket-price-comparison-aPpYp9j1MFin
So tesco is cheaper on Clubcard than sainsburys is on Nectar but only by a very small margin and Asda is between them!
Sainsburys without Nectar though is a major difference, and we haven't shopped in there without it.
hu6Bi5To@reddit
This is the real answer. It's a bit of a myth (one that's very common in online debates) that capitalism and/or shareholder pressure and/or fiduciary duty somehow forces companies in to cost-cutting and taking short-cuts.
It's a perfectly valid strategy for a company to choose quality, and it's a strategy that often pays off.
Businesses that cheap out and make flimsy excuses, are doing just that, making excuses for their own choices.
audigex@reddit
Yeah it's not even like they're the only ones
Brands like Mercedes, Apple are two clear examples of brands that go specifically for the "We're charging more but it's for a quality product" and specifically target that market
With that said, there's also clearly a more general race to the bottom, especially with any company that private equity gets their hands on. I guess the point is that public are used to quality dropping in 99% of cases, that the 1% get lost in the crowd
Alarming_Profile_284@reddit
Sainsburys is a bullshit supermarket. High prices, low wages and often very dirty stores
I always avoid that place nowadays
TipsyMagpie@reddit
I mostly shop at M&S/Ocado now. My weekly shop is about 10-20% higher but we have enough flex in our budget, and the quality is way more than 20% better.
Barca-Dam@reddit
While I agree about the M&S quality, I think Waitrose has taken a big dip in quality since Covid and it’s now on the same level as Sainsbury’s and Tesco
SojournerInThisVale@reddit
Yeah. My local Waitrose is badly planned, extremely cramped, expensive, and the staff are terrible (I asked if they sold prepared stock and the guy pointed at the gravy). It’s also over lit. The M&S is the opposite. Excellent staff, a big store with lots of space to move and for them to show off their product range (cheese island, bakery, etc.), and the lighting is excellent.
notouttolunch@reddit
What the hell is “prepared stock”.
SojournerInThisVale@reddit
Are you the same guy?
And why so aggressive?
This: https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/cooks-ingredients-chicken-stock/907432-831731-831732?srsltid=AfmBOoo2qZ6FMi-TITo5-ZxL6akFLenVwYSE4pQKamP0MW2iXUyxttt3
notouttolunch@reddit
Oh. You meant gravy.
Jazzlike_Copy_7669@reddit
Used to work for a Waitrose and the staff got treated like absolute shit by managers with a ridiculous workload, paid minimum wage, and never received the bonuses we were promised. We had a 90% turnover rate. I def recommend never shopping at Waitrose!
GeeJo@reddit
Waitrose's main selling point at the moment is selling stuff that is alternative rather than better.
Which is, in fairness, pretty neat. You go in there and you buy a whole bunch of expensive shit that you can't find in any other supermarket. It's overpriced, and the quality isn't particularly better than the mainstream stuff. But it's not worse and it's novel. If you're vegan or even vegetarian then it's got a bunch of stuff that fits your diet that you won't find in Sainsbury's. Whether you like that stuff is hit-or-miss.
Aetheriao@reddit
Same. I’ve given up with Waitrose, and it’s not just my local one I see it in the ones near my job too.
I’d rather pay a bit more and not have my fresh veg be sprouting or rotten out of the bag, or my personal pet peeve I buy berries and they’re just fucked with 1-2 days. It’s not it’s worse than Tesco or Sainsbury’s, it’s just not better when it’s not cheaper.
M&S is my go to for fresh fruit and veg now. I’d rather pay a bit more and not waste half the shit I bought because it’s barely edible day 1 or rotten by day 3.
Grouchy-Nobody3398@reddit
The only good thing about waitrose locally is it keeps certain social classes out of where I shop...
bluebellwould@reddit
They are also working hard to be sustainable too. I'm sure because I was surprised to find a high street store on a list of sustainable friendly shops.
Peter_Sofa@reddit
Being publicly listed does not mean a rapacious approach to cost cutting is taken, as often there are very large scale institutional investors who are thinking over the very long term, such as pension funds, who have no interest in short term gain over long term stability / stable profits.
When private equity take over ever private or publicly listed companies, then a rapacious approach is often taken, as their aim is short term profit, so they engage in unethical practices like loading the company up with debt, withdrawing huge profits (financed by the debt), squeezing every penny out of cost etc
SojournerInThisVale@reddit
Sometimes. This is not how all P/E works. They’re just the ones you hear about in the papers
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
Asda took this approach and the owners of football clubs buy with leveraged debt. Burnley and man united had no debt before they got leverage bought out. They had money in the bank as a surplus.
SojournerInThisVale@reddit
None of those are private equity companies
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
I wish that more investment firm took this approach and our national services like our water and electric grid would be in a lot better position.
notouttolunch@reddit
I enjoy marks and Spencer. I think it shows quality still because it is still on the crest of its renaissance after Stuart Rose and his team brought it back from almost failure.
OrdinaryQuestions@reddit
I worked there for a bit, just as a customer assistant so I don't know a lot, but they're VERY customer focused.
Like fuck everything, prioritise the customer and making them leave happy. Do your best to ensure they don't have to queue, greet everyone, etc etc etc etc. And their main selling point is... quality.
I was talking with some of the longer term staff, and they recognise that older people are the main customers and they are loyal for the quality. Whereas a huge bulk of other customers are seasonal shoppers - show up at Christmas, mothers day, etc.
So, to ensure that customer base keeps coming, they need to ensure they keep providing quality. Lose quality = lose loyalty consistent shoppers.
Though.... they've also noticed a lot more young people are shopping there too! In food there's younger people more conscious about health. And in clothing there's younger people who are sick of fast fashion low quality. The jeans are super popular.
bizkitman11@reddit
At self-service, I often pack after I pay.
One of the little things I’ve noticed is at most supermarkets, as soon as you finish paying an automated voice starts shrieking at you to take your things and get out.
The tills at M&S are silent.
OrdinaryQuestions@reddit
Yeah!
I'm not 100% sure, but i don't think they use scales in their self checkouts.
Like say you go to Tesco, aldi, etc and something is the wrong weight, it immediately flags for a server to come over and check. Or say you want to use your own bag, someone needs to come over and peek inside first before you can continue scanning stuff.
But M&S I can just put stuff straight into my backpack without issue.
I wonder if it's about showing trust for customers, not questioning their integrity. Seeing them as just customers rather than potential thieves. A respect thing.
Of course, there are practices that watch out for theft. But nothing is super obvious and in your face.
notouttolunch@reddit
Some have scales. Some don’t.
pajamakitten@reddit
Elderly people hate being rushed, that might be why.
SkipsH@reddit
I shop at Waitrose pretty regularly, it's not a major difference in price to other supermarkets and the quality is a lot more consistent.
cowbutt6@reddit
Waitrose have chosen to let the quality slide since I started using them during the 2020 lockdowns. Bizarrely, they try to compete on price with Lidl and Aldi.
notouttolunch@reddit
And fail.
Yes sometimes I do wonder where they’re aiming. I don’t hate it but sometimes, unlike marks, it seems expensive for no reason. You only get the “benefit” if something goes wrong and you need customer service but that doesn’t happen often. And if it does, I probably don’t care too much as a carrot is 15p and it doesn’t happen often!
Icy_Example_5536@reddit
Worked at M&S half my life. Their brand was always quality without compromise, and I'm proud that they've never deviated from that. They also know the market & react accordingly, while the competition - who failed to adapt to changing times - fell by the wayside. They know what customers want, and quality is #1.
WatchIll4478@reddit
The mens clothing has gone to shit, but the food is alright.
mata_dan@reddit
So glad I've seen 2 other people agree with me on that in this thread. Thought I was living in crazy land or something. Yeah it's 1.5x nicer quality than say Primark but easily 4 - 10 x the cost. Meh.
Own-Independence-757@reddit
M & S clothes are tat now. Nice bakery still.
mata_dan@reddit
Yeah the mensware is completely useless, except when they have actual cotton dressing gowns half the time (that's unisex though?).
I imagine their womens clothes might hold up a bit better compared to the rest of the market below. But for mensware, you still need to be prepared to spend more to get to a proper quality level.
Charming-Spinach1418@reddit
£2.90 for a small cheese uncut loaf 😢
Chizlewagon@reddit
Because it's their competitive differentiation. It's literally how they turned the business around in the last 7/8 years, by focussing on quality
Captain_Kruch@reddit
If I could afford to shop at M&S full time I would. Unfortunately, higher quality means higher prices (for me, anyway). So I'm restricted to purchasing the odd thing from M&S.
Peter_gggg@reddit
M&S already did the "we must get cheaper" strategy on their clothes in the 90's .
It was a disaster. People expect a half decent quality from M&S, and will pay a bit more than they will at the other supermarkets. What they won't do is pay a bit more and accept lower quartile quality
Style wise - they were always "parents and grandparents"
Not sure where they are now , as I'm too old to know what is currently the fashion
Charming-Spinach1418@reddit
I noticed today that the weekly treat I buy of steak has gone up at M&S from £10.50 a piece to £12! 🫤
SpinachIll4943@reddit
It sucks that they are a zionist company though
Thelichemaster@reddit
I have always relied on M&S for underwear(proper pants and woollen socks) and food as well as formal attire.
ASmallRedSquirrel@reddit
M&S were not doing well around 3 years ago, they brought in new management including a new CEO, made some changes and started to turn the business around.
https://businessleader.co.uk/content/article/634/Inside-the-turnaround-of-Marks-&-Spencer
You could buy their shares for less than a pound in 2022, just 3 years later they had quadrupled to over £4.
M&S is almost all own brand so for food they obviously have more of a say than other supermarkets that are buying brand names, different for own brand obviously, but that's split into budget and premium whereas M&S have a reputation for quality.
Listed or private isn't really relevant (unless you want to buy shares), there are other well run retail businesses that are listed (eg Dunelm, Card Factory) and there are loads of other high street retailers listed on the LSE - Currys, Tesco , Sainsbury's, Halfords, Kingfisher, Wickes, Next, JD, Frasers, B&M, Pets at Home etc etc...
shenme_@reddit
Surprised I had to scroll down so far to see the real answer. I’m a designer and worked at an agency who worked with Stuart Machin and the M&S team on redesigning the M&S food brand and stores when started running that in 2018, and a big part of what we did was addressing brand perception that M&S food was not good value for money.
As far as clients go, he was great. Remember nervously pitching our big concept for the stores to him and he loved it and pushed us to go even further with it, which is incredibly rare for senior execs. Usually they want to play it super safe and rip off whatever their most successful competitor has done. Like I’m telling you, this is what happens like 90% of the time, corporate folks pretty much always just want to play it safe to not risk their careers. Not this guy.
There were also loads of other initiatives put in place in terms of pricing, marketing, buying, etc, to change the bad value perception. It was largely (in terms of their profits and share price), and so Stuart was made CEO of the whole shebang in 2022.
_Strange96@reddit
I’m u ssssàs
Acrobatic-Ad584@reddit
Marks and Spencers food is pretty consistent good quality but clothing goes through changes quite often depends on the buyers some years frumpy, sone years more en trend, depends on the buyers and which group they are trying to attract age wise. Their knickers remain much the same though!
OTribal_chief@reddit
they did go down. but they've managed to pivot and revitalise their reputation.
Opening-Length-4244@reddit
Are you sure ? M&Ms have been €3.50 for a few years and now they are €4 minimum in a lot of places
welovetulips@reddit
So I have several views on this topic. First. When I was 18 and a waitress m&s was the only place I could get shoes to comfortably work a shift in. Two. At 37 I needed a dress for work that didn’t show too much cleavage and m&s was the only one. Three. M&S is the place to go for bra sizing and when you have breast cancer they are amazing in their knowledge and compassion. I’m finally finished with surgeries and need to be resized and will go to m&s.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
I hope that you pull through and fully recover.
welovetulips@reddit
Thank you
abbygrac33@reddit
you might know this already but m&s do VAT free post surgery bras xx
welovetulips@reddit
I didn’t but I know Asda do.
Ayanhart@reddit
If you would prefer to do your bra sizing at home, I recommend r/ABraThatFits and their calculator. It's generally pretty accurate in my experience, just need to adjust for the brand.
welovetulips@reddit
Thank you
sc00022@reddit
As a guy, M&S was always the place to go as a teenager if you needed a smarter suit than some cheap plastic suit from Topman/Burton/River Island. Also the food is generally some of the best you can get from a chain supermarket, so that always draws people in.
claypolejr@reddit
IIRC at one point the "normal non-luxury" suits were designed by Tom Ford.
mintminicooper@reddit
I will never understand this, isnt a mens suit just a mens suit? Surely its the fabric and labour that makes it better quality.
audigex@reddit
Cheap ones tend to hang rather than fit
Obviously a properly tailored one fits better, but they're VERY expensive, whereas a decent off the shelf suit can still fit markedly better than a cheap one that doesn't fit at all and just looks like a teenager borrowing his dad's suit for his first job interview
audigex@reddit
Their clothes are great... assuming M&S haven't closed your local shop and re-opened it as a "M&S Food" without anything else, 10 miles away :(
Dense_Bad3146@reddit
Primark do a range of clothing for women undergoing treatments which involves tubes, ports etc, hidden zips that give easy access to feeding tubes.
Routine_Ad1823@reddit
I thought you meant you got two shoes at first.
I was like, "yes that's standard"
Corrie7686@reddit
My partner has been through the same thing, and that is exactly what she did and what she will do.
Best of luck on your journey
verzweifeltundmuede@reddit
Have been absolutely obsessed with M&S clothing since I left uni. It's the only place I can get nice clothes that aren't granny or outrageously revealing (H&M is a nightmare for me today). I just want a cute and funky top that covers my belly and can be worn to the office, pub or family lunch.
smallbirthday@reddit
They've been good with bra sizing for years! Very cool that that's not just limited to pre-masectomy bra sizing. Prior to the boom in transphobia over the last ten years, I heard good things about them bra sizing for trans women too.
ukpunjabivixen@reddit
Hugs. Wishing you the best for the other surgeries x
welovetulips@reddit
No more surgeries! Just chemo and radiation
ukpunjabivixen@reddit
🥰🥰🥰
BowiesFixedPupil@reddit
Congratulations, I wish you good future health. It's quite incredible what a difference a shopping experience can make in trying times. These things need protecting from Capitalist pigs looking for a bigger (short term) profit.
811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit
I don't think Next has particularly changed it's quality either.
It's got to be a conscious choice by these companies, that's why.
gardenofthenight@reddit
I still have Next dark coloured jumpers from nearly 20 years back that have barely faded or worn out.
pajamakitten@reddit
I have t-shirts from Next that I got before I started uni in 2010.
TheAdamena@reddit
Funnily, both M&S and Next are also both wholly British companies.
We can't really say the same about most of our other retail outlets. So many of them are owned by foreign multinationals.
BroodLord1962@reddit
I used to buy from Next 20 years ago, but stopped about 15 years ago because their quality really went down hill as they were so focused on profits. I knew two people who worked at Next head office at this time, and both confirmed to me that their quality had been reduced to maintain profits against the likes of Matalan
failsworth@reddit
Fatface too, always impressed with their quality. I really am middle aged :(
space_coyote_86@reddit
Next own Fatface now
Bgtobgfu@reddit
I moved abroad but I still try to buy Next and M&S clothes for my kid. The quality is so high compared to price.
Technical_Front_8046@reddit
I think it is purely down to the fact that M&S have always been known for quality. They have even played on it in their adverts “this isn’t just any chocolate, this is M&S Milk Chocolate”.
They know their customers are willing to pay more because they want quality. I read a while back their profits had done very well on the food side. It was noted as being down to their partnership with Ocado and entering the online food shopping space.
That’s when we started doing our weekly shop there and we haven’t looked back.
Possiblyreef@reddit
It's basically their USP.
I paid about £3 for a garlic bread (garlic boule) there last week.
But by God was it one of the best I've ever had and next time I'm close I'm buying another one with a camembert for dipping
Carbona_Not_Glue@reddit
Their bakery products are very good too. I felt extravagant buying their sourdough bread a while ago but it quickly became a regular purchase. I'll cut costs elsewhere.
Ken___M_@reddit
Wait til you try their ketchup and pickled onions!
Here's an extended list of other top tier m&s food for fellow fat cunts.
The pots of flapjacks and unreal Their runny scotch eggs Their own brand liquorice all sorts are FAR better than Maynards Their orange Hi-juice is essence! Amy if the tall jars of soup Their pistachio Ice cream
imtheorangeycenter@reddit
There's always one in the freezer here. That 50 mins for it to to reheat feels like an eternity though!
Od_Bod902@reddit
If you break it up into the individual slices before cooking you can get the cooking time down to less than 15 minutes!
brumboy123@reddit
I'm being dumb, which one are you on about? There are several garlic breads!
Possiblyreef@reddit
Bigger M&S food halls have a little freezer, looks like an ice cream freezer just freestanding somewhere near the chillers or bakery. They do 2x frozen baguettes or a big round Boule. That's the one you want.
You need to keep it frozen, take it out 15mins before cooking then cook for 45 minutes so it does take a while but it's fucking amazing
ofmiceandmel@reddit
I broke my front tooth on one for those boules because it was so crusty. 100% worth it.
Mature_Student@reddit
I don't even like camembert and I'm tempted
blizzardlizard666@reddit
Their bread fridge is the best thing ever. I discovered it mere months from finding out I can't eat wheat/ gluten any more and it's quite devastating. I think it was the long version I liked best 😭😭 oh god all that thick garlic butter
confusedbookperson@reddit
They're certainly not wrong on that front, their chocolate/sweets and chocolate biscuits are some of the richest and nicest you can get for a supermarket budget.
AussieHxC@reddit
They were starting to make serious gains before Ocado but their partnership was timed perfectly for COVID and they've seemingly gone from strength to strength since.
colemang1992@reddit
They would've gone the same way as Debenhams if it wasn't for the food imo
UziTheG@reddit
Being the cheapest is a marketing tactic, just, shock horror, it's expensive.
Tesco, Aldi, Asda and Lidl all essentially make zero profit on every item sold. Waitrose made more profit than Tesco last year (over twice as much, with like a 1/10th of the stores). Every product in the cheap supermarkets averages out to like a 2% margin, which on a full shop is a couple quid. Aldi are on the verge of becoming unprofitable trying to compete as consumers become more and more price sensitive. People with cars are now changing supermarket over literally £2-3.
M&S won't ever be the biggest, as they don't market on price but instead quality, but where they are, they'll be a lot more profitable. It's just there's a lot more demand for cheap than quality.
This whole publicly traded malarkey makes zero sense in this context.
demon_x_slash@reddit
Their underwear has gone downhill. I’ve put so many pairs bought in the past five years in my Repair Pile - and I have 20 year old knickers from them still in near perfect condition, so it’s noticeable. Lace coming unsewn, invisible hems coming unglued, silk burring and dulling even with cold hand-washes.
volster@reddit
M&S historically used to only stock their own brands of stuff — while they've given in somewhat over the years, it's still the case for the vast majority of what they have on the shelves.
Normally this kind of model is used to drive prices down, but it can also be used to dictate quality control — a "new and improved" only happens when M&S wants it to, not when a brand's owners need to square up their margins because costs have gone up but the supermarket refuses to accept a price increase.
M&S have always been at the top end of the market, which gives them a bit more breathing room — obviously % margins on bigger numbers are bigger margins.
Also, the ingredient cost difference between premium and el-cheapo often ends up being relatively marginal compared to the overall cost of the goods — it's often relatively negligible compared to production costs, transport, etc.
Cider is what I know, so to give you an example: in what feels like another life ago now, we used to supply most of the supermarket own-labels — to the point where it was easier to list the ones we didn't do than the ones we did.
On an industrial scale, the difference between minimum-legal-juice-content, artificially-sweetened, chemical-tasting piss and something actually fit to drink ended up being about 0.5 pence per case of six 2L bottles.
We genuinely tried quite hard to persuade the supermarkets to let us improve the recipe — own-label or not, it’s not like we were proud to be making the stuff (only reason we did was because it covered the overheads). The supermarkets said they'd rather keep the halfpence.
While sure, "not always," M&S for the most part don't do the el-cheapo versions of stuff — which means they're both better insulated from price shocks and don't have to artificially create product segmentation between cheap / normal / best that you typically see at Tesco etc.
What tends to happen elsewhere is:
If you’re doing all three, you end up having to constantly move prices up the ladder.
Whereas M&S mostly just do "nice" and "super fancy," which simplifies things massively.
Another thing that's probably worth noting is that unlike other supermarkets, M&S are still pretty diversified — roughly 50/50 between clothes and food if you lump international stuff in too.
People go into M&S expecting it to be more expensive — but also expecting it to be nice. You're already primed to be shopping on value, not just price.
As such, they don't need to worry too much about being cheap — instead, they've got to leave you with the impression of "huh, that's better than I was expecting — d'ya know it's almost as expensive in Asda as it is shopping here these days!"
Oh — and finally, one last thing that sets M&S apart: no private equity.
Which seems to be the kiss of death for just about any business these days.
It came close after Covid — if it had gone through, I doubt you'd be posting this today.
(2021: US private equity giant considered M&S buyout)
They’ve got some other financial investments too — they bought out a logistics company (Gist) which probably helps when negotiating own-label contracts if they can ask for ex-works prices (although I’ve no idea if that’s what they actually do).
Also, they’ve got a 50% stake in Ocado (which is admittedly losing money, but improving), and their own stuff now makes up nearly 1/3rd of baskets — which essentially gives them two bites of the cherry on their own-label goods.
Although sure, it'd be nice if Ocado became profitable — but honestly, from M&S's perspective, I'd imagine the real value of the Ocado deal is getting a peek at their competitors' sales data through the platform.
Disclaimer: cider anecdote (which actually did happen) aside, I'm entirely just some idiot wasting friday evening by speculatively talking out of my arse on the internet. 🙃
No-Medicine1230@reddit
Having worked with M&S as a supplier. The majority of the time, they don’t buy based on price - they buy based on quality. They know their target market and what they are willing to pay and work with that. Tesco, Sainsbury’s buy products based on selling it cheap to keep up with competition and ensuring they make their margins
No-Structure-8125@reddit
But Tesco and Sainsbury's aren't even that cheap anymore. Maybe like 10-20% cheaper than m&s, but 40% worse quality.
audigex@reddit
Yeah Tesco especially has been chasing Aldi for a long time
Sainsburys doesn't really know what it wants to do, half the shop feels like it's trying to copy M&S, the other half like it's trying to copy Lidl
Tundur@reddit
Sainsbury's ready made food is usually significantly better than Tesco, the rest is much of a muchness but slightly dearer.
Quite often I'll e.g make a stir fry from scratch but add some ready made spring rolls, and the Sainsbury's ones are miles ahead so an extra few quid on the rest balances out
audigex@reddit
Yeah that's kinda my point - some things in Sainsburys are much better than Tesco/Aldi/etc, others are the same "just make it as cheap as possible" crap... but they don't have one of each, so it's just a crapshoot as to what's available
It makes it a PITA to shop at Sainsburys because you still end up having to go to both a cheap shop and an expensive shop... whereas I could just go to M&S and Aldi in the first place and not need Sainsburys at all
No-Medicine1230@reddit
Nailed it
TheAdamena@reddit
Funnily, one of the few big supermarkets not owned by a foreign parent company.
Whulad@reddit
Personally I think Sainsbury’s fresh produce is by and large better than M&S’s
depression69420666@reddit
I can Definitely disagree on that where i live. I wouldn't touch Sainsbury's sadly.
Educational_Ad2737@reddit
Because they raised thier prices and price varies tonnes between different stores
Strange-Implication@reddit
I keep buying these cumberland pies from M n S. So good
nickytheginger@reddit
A reasonably priced Quality will bring people back.
Hollywood-is-DOA@reddit
The men’s clothing can be hit and miss. It is a lot better quality for the price, over most other high street brands for the price. I got two shower proof, thick body warmers, two years ago, with hand pockets and pockets above them.
Last year’s version, wasn’t double pockets and wasn’t as good quality. They go through periods of high quality on certain men’s clothing items. This winter I got some brilliant jackets with little details that don’t see on very expensive brands. They are the master of the £50-£90 clothing items.
MortalsWatchTheDay@reddit
I saw a tweet yesterday where someone complained that the price of a particular M&S celebration cake had gone up to £70 from £50 when she last bought it ten months ago. Showed receipts too. M&S replied with some flannel about only raising prices when necessary, but they couldn't explain the 40% hike to anybody's satisfaction.
ky1268@reddit
m&s is genuinely my favourite store ever. good food and the clothes are really nice. you’ll get extremely good finds in the bigger ones too
America_Is_Fucked_@reddit
Strongly disagree. We used to use Ocado for home delivery. When they switched from Waitrose to M&S there was a massive drop in the quality. Especially the veg. M&S is Morrison's quality food (which is fine but just that) in expensive looking packaging.
Just to be clear I'm not some snooty richo. I do most of my shopping in ASDA.
Professional_Elk_489@reddit
How have you only just found out M&S are publicly traded? Did you know TSCO, BHP and SHEL are traded too?
Messiah94@reddit
People don't understand the difference between Asda, Tesco etc and M&S food. It's night and day quality wise. My and my wife used to eat out a little bit more than we liked but now we spend the extra £££ on M&S food, were so much more happier eating in, i actually look forward to making meals at home again.
Darri_oakenbear@reddit
As someone that was brought up on the delights of Kwik Save I know what crap food is like. M&S is a little bit more expensive than it's competitors but the quality of their produce just can't be beaten. It's also a.nice shopping experience if that's your thing. Been in plenty of grotty Asdas but M&S are always spotless round my way
Trips-Over-Tail@reddit
Give it time. Enshittification will always set in.
They may have people at the helm preventing it now, but they will be replaced eventually. To keep things running smoothly every replacement must be similarly competant. But they only need to fail to put someone competant in place once, and they will fill the team with and name their successors as similar idiots. And things become permanently shit.
Sirlacker@reddit
Because M&Ms were already terrible chocolate. You can't really downgrade it anymore without it being completely unsellable.
tyger2020@reddit
Being honest, it hasn't gone down the toilet but thats only because it had a much higher start point.
Theres certain products at M&S that have definitely changed and gotten worse the last few years, whilst going up in price. They're just not at a low enough quality that they're 'bad'.
BroodLord1962@reddit
A lot is to do with your comment, 'relatively affordable', what's affordable to you isn't for some. But I'd agree with you on quality, m&s is tough to beat regards food quality, and while some bargains can be found in m&s, the majority of their food is more expensive. So ultimately it's down to what people are willing to pay. I've come to the conclusion that there are also lot of people out there who wouldn't recognise good quality food if it smacked them in the face. But unlike other supermarkets who have both put their prices up and reduced the quality or size of items, m&s have just increased the price while keeping the quality/ I think part of the reason m&s can do this, is their high profit margins. Years ago I worked for an m&s clothes supplier, and on every item m&s had a 60% profit margin.
maceion@reddit
'Margin' is not 'profit'. Margin pays staff wages, store upkeep and rent and taxes. 'Profit' is what is left after all outgoings and taxes are paid.
joe_the_cow@reddit
M&S is overlooked for the basics likes of tinned soups, breakfast cereals & household cleaning products.
For example 500g M&S Fruit and Fibre is around £1.20(ISH) Its head and shoulders above any other supermarket own brand cereal and it's cheaper than the equivalent from Lidl and Aldi.
It can be comparatively cheap to shop in M&S and when you also factor in the quality of the goods being bought it sometimes makes you wonder why you didn't start doing at least a partial shop there sooner.
dominicgrimes@reddit
M&S crunchy nut cornflakes are the nearest thing to Kellogs you will get at half the price
cuibksrub3@reddit
It has been getting worse, for decades. Buy old M&S (St. Michael) from Vinted and eBay, and you'll see.
Ok_Construction_8136@reddit
Am I going crazy? M&S has the worst quality, most overpriced groceries going
Amazing_Winter_725@reddit
That’s the USP for M&S - people going there are going there for relatively affordable quality. If they start compromising on the quality then you may as well go somewhere else that’s cheaper…
Just_Eye2956@reddit
When I was younger, M&S was the harbinger of quality clothing. All British made and lasted for ages. In the modern work that followed, cheaper clothing made in sweat shops across the world meant they had to react to that. So quality did suffer. Clothes that didn’t last, poorer designs, they tried to follow a trend that was not good for the brand. Mistake. They have tried to pull away from that now a bit by saying they are more sustainable and they care about the environment. The clothes seem a little more on trend (although I’m not an expert). Their food is a lot better than most supermarkets although I don’t buy ready meals due to ultra processed means. I think the British public has been told that they should buy cheap whatever. We have lost taste and replaced it with acceptance. Huge problem now with obesity due to people eating rubbish!
IThinkItMightBeMe@reddit
I read m&m's and thought yeah you're right, they are pretty great lol
mata_dan@reddit
It has gotten a bit worse though.
HorrorContract342@reddit
I'm sure I remember a Beckham range when they realised they had to change their marketing to bring a younger generation.
KindredFlower@reddit
I am usually a big M&S fan but they let me down today; bought their strawberries earlier in the week and they were divine, bought again today and despite having a look underneath the packs before choosing them, I got home and opened them and they were riddled with mould and bugs and the best before date was 30 April. 'Twas very sad.
rockandrollmark@reddit
M&S quality went to sh*t in around about 1997. They sold real quality back then, from clothes to furniture, to food. It wasn’t fashionable, but it was good. Unfortunately however other retailers worked out that you can attract customers with something shiny and slightly cheaper and sales at M&S started to drop as their core audience either became too old to shop there or migrated to other brands.
Profits took a hit and they’ve been trying to recover ever since. Share price these days is 1/3 of what it used to be and that’s not even taking into account inflation.
28293067@reddit
I’ve noticed a significant change in the quality of some of the food, it’s definitely not as good as it used to be, I recently bought a ready meal curry and it wasn’t great, the quality of the chicken was terrible to be honest, and it wasn’t great from their ‘better’ range.
TooRedditFamous@reddit
Because that's their market strategy, simple as that. They have a brand reputation for higher quality which justifies their higher price. If their quality dips but their prices don't, well you might as well shop at tesco instead
audigex@reddit
Because quality is their main selling point
If their quality dropped then nobody would shop there and they'd go bankrupt VERY quickly
fergie@reddit
Give it time…
cpn_banana@reddit
With food, if other supermarkets might have charged £1, M&S £2, that’s 100% more! As costs have risen others are now £2, M&S £3, still the same margin but now only 50% more! Seems a much better deal. Clothing, I was looking at their pyjamas and other items and it’s all “recycled polyester” as if that’s a good thing. I want cotton or silk pyjamas please.
WasThatInappropriate@reddit
M&S quality is abit of a myth, they don't have vertically integrated supply chains and use most of the same suppliers the other retailers use. Meanwhile in blind taste tests M&S rarely win. However they almost universally win branded taste tests, which points to reputation being the point of difference.
I work for one of the big 4, and when touring a factory we buy from I've literally stood watching the line where the only difference between M&S and everyone else's stock was a piece of A4 sellotaped to a wall saying 'M&S area' and periodically batches off the same line using the same spec and ingredients would be held separately. Likely as part of their buying agreement so they can claim they're not buying from the same pool as everyone else.
NegotiationUpper4057@reddit
When Topshop ended a huge amount of their designers started working for M&S. I think you can even see the rise of M&S clothes started not long after Topshop went under.
noobtik@reddit
Because in a country where all other supermarkets have floored their quality, providing a decent quality actually put you in an uncompetitive market
ARobertNotABob@reddit
Quality of the Procurement team.
thischarmingsam8@reddit
Their mens pants have gone to shit
deathmetalbestmetal@reddit
Reddit is fucking obsessed with M&S to the point I swear there are shills here. The clothing range is dull, bang average boomer fodder and the food halls are a waste of time for anyone that wants a decent selection of anything that isn’t microwaveable shite.
blackleydynamo@reddit
They tried to compete with cheap and cheerful, briefly about 20+ years ago(?), and it didn't go well - they lost the loyal OAP granny pants buyers without managing to really attract the younger fashion audience away from Dorothy Perkins, Top Shop, Monsoon etc.
So they have the scars that some other places don't have from fighting this battle before. They appear to have decided to keep the quality and the price up, and realised that there'll always be an audience for "boring but reliable".
Weird things like slippers and socks are so much better in M&S than anywhere else, and they have recently upped their jeans game very well. They're now filling the gap left by Gap pulling out of having actual stores.
Engineering-Guy-185@reddit
Disagree on Waitrose. They have cut quality. Significantly. Agree on M&S, their meat and fruit especially are far superior to Waitrose now.
ramxquake@reddit
M&S is what you might call a Veblen Good, people will be more likely to buy it because it's more expensive.
maxmarioxx_@reddit
Food is decent quality but clothes are hit and miss - especially the seasonal stuff.
Most clothing is made of plastic based fibers (not an issue with M&S only). Lots of their stuff has faulty designs like poorly designed collars, lounge pants, and their Autograph collection is just overpriced junk IMHO (mostly).
They do have decent basics, coats, and their sportswear is great value.
I do think they have decent customer service and have invested a lot in their stores (at least in Manchester). It would be a big shame to seem them sink. I think M&S and John Lewis are the only decent retailers left in the UK. Ah, and maybe Next too.
balanceilimp@reddit
My 2p - their Indian ready meals are superb
fiestymcknickers@reddit
M&S is now on par with the "fancier" Tesco items. Where once you would talk at their prices it's now comparable. And so I pick the m&s because it's better quality
kore_nametooshort@reddit
Quality is their only brand identity. They know they can never compete on price against Asda or Sainsburies etc, so they have to maintain quality to remain relevant in the market.
Substantial_Pilot699@reddit
Yes it is a public company! I actually made a few grand day trading the M&S stock on Plus500, it's on of my go to stocks. Goes up and down quite a bit, has been really easy money.
Alex6534@reddit
With inflation and the other supermarkets raising their price m&s seem like a good deal for the quality difference. Luxuries you pay through the nose for, but for staples (veg, bread, most basic meats, olive oil etc) I’ve found the 10-20% price difference (if that) is MORE than worth it as it lasts longer and actually tastes like it should.
smidgit@reddit
I have a fun story from M&S
I was getting travel money out, and the customer service desk was right next to the money desk. A customer came in to complain his rotisserie chicken had given him food poisoning. Came in brandishing the receipt and a note from the doctor. Demanded something or he’d sue. Anyway, turns out he had gotten a chicken from the fridge and eaten it. Problem is, it was a raw chicken, which he ate raw.
Customer service gave him profusely apologies, a refund, and a gift card for his trouble. The money desk woman and I (as well as everyone else in the queue) just watched fascinated.
Xx_pussaydestroy_Xx@reddit
The clothes quality has gone down though
PossibleBumblebee401@reddit
At this stage their clothes are about the same price as h and m or zara but will last for twice as a long if not more
Whoisthehypocrite@reddit
Tescos/Sainsbury's margins have not gone up so that are not overpriced or cutting costs. The reality is that with minimum wage increases and commodity inflation, everything costs more.
M&S would have had higher margins to start with so a bit more flexibility in absorbing costs.
CatnipManiac@reddit
I feel like I've gone through a wormhole and thrown 20 years back in time when M&S actually did sell quality clothing at decent prices.
Now they seem to sell stuff (in men's clothing anyway) that's designed for squat, tubby, middle-aged men: eg all the polo shirts have this "square" shape, short and wide in the body. No slim-fit anywhere to be seen. Shirts that shrink in the wash. Medium-sized boxer shorts so baggy they would have been an XL size 20 years ago, and lose any semblance of shape after a few washes.
So if you're short, fat, grey, and don't really give a shit what you look like, M&S is the place for you.
giraffe_cake@reddit
My dyslexia read m&m's. I was like, whoah, this guy is REALLY into m&m's. Then the clothes paragraph really confused me until I realised you meant Marks and Spencer.
ComputerEnjoyer@reddit
I work for a company that supplies M&S, they are by far the most painful company to work with, as in they are far stricter than other retailers on quality and compliance.
On another note, I actually quite like their clothes, perfect for work wear. Plus they do some funky shirts that my misses hates for the summer
Dannybuoy77@reddit
Quality is still high but if you look at the ingredients in a lot of products, they're crammed with emulsifiers, stabilisers, palm oil etc etc. Cheaper ingredients. It's quite a shame really. If you are trying to avoid these types of potentially harmful ingredients, M&S are no better than other lower price supermarkets. Have become more mindful of the crap in food recently and although the quality seems high, it's not always good for you 😔
Possiblyreef@reddit
M&S has never been overtly good for you, their higher quality items are rammed full of sugar, salt, fat, cream and butter because generally that's what makes food taste good
BroodLord1962@reddit
Best of ranges in all the supermarkets are full of more sugar, the whole best of ranges are a con
lemon-and-lies@reddit
Other supermarkets like Sainsbury's, Tesco and ASDA are much worse for this, M&S are much more open about it and even have started a new UPF-free line and are by the looks of it working to remove ultra processed ingredients from a lot of their products. I avoid UPF and M&S is now my preferred supermarket.
Opposite_Pack_1484@reddit (OP)
its still a thing in m&s, but much much less prevalent than in the other ones, it feels like tesco and sainsburys go out of their way to add random chemicals to things which dont even really need them in the first place
GenerallyDull@reddit
They legitimately care about quality.
I know someone who works for a distributor that provides a number of products to most supermarkets.
He has said the M&S standards are far and above the others. What might be fine for Asda wouldn’t get near M&S. And if not got sent to M&S it would almost certainly be picked up, rejected and someone would be in for a rollocking.
dolphineclipse@reddit
I find M&S one of the few shops where the price feels proportionate to the quality - I don't feel that way about Waitrose, although they are good for certain items
gogybo@reddit
It's not about private vs public imo, it's about market segmentation. M&S are targeting the upper-end of the market where shoppers value quality, whereas Sainsbury's have made a play for the middle ground where price is far more important.
Opposite_Pack_1484@reddit (OP)
half the stuff in sainsburys seems to be more expensive anyway, aside from location, im not sure how they are still in business
BroodLord1962@reddit
I think Sainsbury's have found that small gap between the likes of Asda and Tesco, and M&S and Waitrose. People who can't afford the price of the latter two, but want better quality than the first two. Sainsbury fruit, veg, meat, and fish are better quality than Tesco and Asda.
Treskol@reddit
They’ve had a very successful 2 years and have their highest market share in ~10 years, same with Tesco.
Prices are closer to Aldi & Lidl than they used to be (though not the same), and they have priced out Morrisons & Asda.
It leaves M&S alone to compete with a poor Waitrose for the premium shopper and they have nailed that, but Sainsburys have focused on that median shopper that before was leaving them for Tesco/Aldi/Lidl, not M&S
LongSolid5240@reddit
There everyday items are excellent value and better quality than any other supermarket. I do 80% of grocery shop there. Being a single person living on my own I do eat a lot of ready meals. Fill the freezer to last 2 weeks £60/70 then maybe a few bits from Tesco express if I need more milk bread etc in between
North_Compote1940@reddit
They've been publicly traded since forever.
CabinetOk4838@reddit
They’re having a quality cyber incident.
Historical_Milk473@reddit
M&S has gone down hill massively
gibberishnope@reddit
My god their fruit is good
FehdmanKhassad@reddit
M&S foods are still filled with seed oils, not healthy animal fats.
sayleanenlarge@reddit
They're marketing is about quality and knowing the food chain, which requires integrity, which means they haven't put their prices up more than required. Now people are moving away from the shite hawks that did.
seven-cents@reddit
Shame they're currently undergoing a cyber attack. Wonder who is behind it..
HCIREHTXAT-DDD@reddit
Sitting here grunting in a agreement as I scoff down my high quality m&s nigiri
FunVisual3192@reddit
Because it really can’t get any worse. They’re the cockroaches of clothing industry.
RedNOVEMBER1997@reddit
In what fucking universe is M&S affordable ??????
Sea-Still5427@reddit
Depends what you're talking about. Clothes-wise, hey lost sight of their female customers in the 90s. Mens and food are still fine, but gone are the days when every middle and upper class woman had a drawerful of bras and knickers from M&S.
Mature_Student@reddit
I've got sports from there that I bought 20 years ago and they still look great
Sea-Still5427@reddit
That's exactly the problem - I literally have tights that are nearly 20 years old that are still fine, but nothing I've bought in the last ten years or so survives a few wears or washes without getting holes, warping or losing its finish.
Plebbins@reddit
Men's clothes are not fine, they are quite bad quality these days. Not "passable" quality, but actually bad.
Sea-Still5427@reddit
Sorry to hear that. When I look at them they seem a lot more like what I remember buying in the past than the women's do.
Most of the women's stuff looks like Primark. Per Una in particular is appalling: cheap tat with even cheaper embellishments. I still have some M&S t-shirts from 20+ years ago that look good, but the last 10 years they don't last more than a few wears without getting holes in the front.
lemon-and-lies@reddit
I disagree. I'm 20 and only buy bras from M&S! Knickers I care less about, but the only bra I've ever actually found comfortable I bought from M&S about a year ago. Still my comfiest!
LadyMirkwood@reddit
I have quite a few St Michael clothing items I've bought second hand. They are in amazing shape considering they thirty years old or older. They still wash well and no colour fading.
I buy all my jeans from M&S too, the quality for the price is excellent
StrugglyDev@reddit
A large number of their business practises appear to target the middle-aged and retirement cohorts, so I'm pretty sure M&S's keystone demographic is retired or near-retired.
Don't tell anyone, but M&S products like the essentials pretty reliably correlate with the amount of discretionary income reported by a particular demographic... ;)
ohhhhhyeeeessss@reddit
Good supermarket and company overall but staff pay is below most competitors.
loobricated@reddit
Not sure but you're 100% right. I think Tesco and Sainsbury's have gone to absolute shit. The prices have skyrocketed, the quality has dipped and this has been happening non stop for years. If the prices of the products haven't gone up in a month or three, you can bet a big chunk of the product will be removed and hidden in the packaging, and sold for the same price.
There are so many examples I've lost track. We have a Lidl, a Tesco and a Sainsbury's nearby and Lidl just wins on every metric, for almost every product.
Just as an example Kinder Choco bons I noticed were £4.20 in Sainsburys. The exact same bag is £3.50 in Lidl and even better, their knock off version is £3 and very good.
Chocolate hob nobs are also now frankly obscenely priced, at least 2.50 for a big pack, but Lidls version "Oasties" are 70p (!!!) and every bit as good.
M&S prices don't seem to have inflated remotely as much as the brands that are in Tesco and Sainsbury's to the extent that I simply regard M&S as comparatively priced to Tesco and Sainsbury's but wayyyy better quality.
ImpressNice299@reddit
> Im sure as many of us have noticed, most places (especially big corps) have taken to raising prices and cutting quality of everything because muh profits must go up
It's almost like a lazy hatred of capitalism can't explain the world after all.
Gadgie2023@reddit
All the basic stuff like butter, milk etc. is good quality, higher welfare and sometimes cheaper than places like Tesco.
I’d much rather spend an extra £20 a shop and have better quality fruit and vegetables.
Plebbins@reddit
I really don't understand why people are claiming M&S still do good quality clothes. Of all the clothes I've bought from high street shops in the past 2 years, M&S are by far the worst quality. Their fabrics are very thin and the items lose their shape and luster very quickly.
ImpatientHoneyBadger@reddit
M&S has been a PLC since 1926, so pretty much the entire period that they were building their reputation for affordable quality.
Sithfish@reddit
They are probably doing shrinkflation instead. Look at their ready meals like pasta. They are more expensive cos they are better, but they are also half the size of other supermarkets ready meals.
TheOlddan@reddit
That's not true at all, from a quick check they're 400g, which is the same as Tesco, Asda and Sainsbury's.
Sithfish@reddit
Well its bad design then cos the length of the boxes are much shorter. If they are the same weight then they must be deeper, but the customer isn't going to check that, they are just gonna think it looks smaller. Also it could be just heavier food.
SchemeCandid9573@reddit
It's their USP. If they lose that they have nothing.
Beer-Milkshakes@reddit
When your profits aren't razor thin you afford yourself options during a routine economic crisis. You can squeeze the profit and drop a few % or raise price a few % and retain the margin or, I suspect they did a bit of both. Prices up a but, margins down a bit. Product is the same. Portions are the same. Customers are the same.
MrsValentine@reddit
Their food is good but their clothing quality IS poor, with the exception of the premium ranges (per Una). I buy a lot of clothing from M&S because the designs and prices are good but it really is cheap crap. Recently I’ve had:
A pair of tights that laddered straight out of the packet…I was pulling on the first leg and it just went. So never even got to wear them even once since I only got them halfway up one leg.
A dress with an attached fabric belt which must have been sewn together right at the very edges of the fabric rather than a seam allowance left because it frayed and splintered apart in a way that’s unsalvageable unless I open the dress down both side seams, remove the belt, turn it inside out, re-sew it properly and then make it up again
Underwear made of fabric so wafer thin that you put your finger right through it pulling them up. I don’t mean through a weak seam. Right through the fabric.
The worst part of all these is that when you go online to review the items, other people have said the exact same thing and M&S don’t respond to a single one with offers of a refund. They know that multiple people are experiencing the same issues with the same items and they don’t care.
Roylemail@reddit
M&S is slept on. Their own brand stuff is lovely and fairly priced
wildOldcheesecake@reddit
Not so much these days. I just really hope they don’t start cutting corners
Electronic_Tap_6260@reddit
I think because if the quality did dip, they'd lose their customers.
I'm 42 (or 43, I can't remember without a calendar and calculator haha) and never really used them that much until, funnily enough, the cost of living crisis started.
Every other brand has cut corners, raised prices (sometimes 40-90% of what they were) and so their prices are fairly "ok".
I use them now for food shopping via Ocado as well as basic clothes (joggers, tshirts, lounge wear, shirts etc).
M&S and Ocado have a special deal with the producers - they get the "first refusal" of the crops so to speak. Their vegetables last longer, their ingredients taste and look better. I wouldn't use them for branded items (Kellogs etc) because they are more expensive than Tesco in that regard, but for own-brand stuff, they can't be beat at that price point for the quality. For instance, their salad bags may cost 25p more than tesco or sainsburys but they also last 3-4 days longer - meaning I throw a lot less out from spoilage - which means overall I sort of save money.
On the other hand their clothes are great. It's good quality stuff. I used to buy from H&M or Primark for the basics but they fall apart within weeks. Conversely M&S clothes "feel" better. Softer, better stitched. They don't seem designed to be worn once and thrown away.
Their customer service is great.
The reason they haven't dipped in quality is because their customers WANT the quality. If we wanted cheap, we'd go to tesco or whatever.
It's not just any brand. It's an M&S brand.
Randy_The_Guppy@reddit
Probably learning from their difficulties in the late 90s - 2010 when they pushed profit margins to such a level that they lost the loyalty of a lot of their customers.
BppnfvbanyOnxre@reddit
We often end up buying food from M&S when passing. Quality is usually good, prices not excessive.
gildedmatilda@reddit
I can’t be the only one who thinks this thread reads as a massive advert.
In my experience the quality has gone down, particularly with meat and clothes. Have bought chicken that’s turned out to be woody twice out of the 3 times I’ve bought it there recently, and ready meals feel more bog standard than they used to. Bought 2 jumpers and they were both badly pilling within a week.
Snacks wise, they’re using the Aldi/Lidl strategy of copying other brands. E.g. their Chocolonely copy that rips off the style but has 0 claims about it being ethically sourced, while being more expensive gram for gram
DeinOnkelFred@reddit
M&S food in our nearby market town is significantly better quality than the Co-Op in the village, yet the prices are comparable.
(I am also over forty, so I also appreciate a nice v-neck lambs-wool jumper! Five more years and I qualify for free suede elbow patches, and a 10% discount on corduroy trousers!)
Negative-Ad-7030@reddit
M&S biscuits and cookies are elite. Don't get me started on the all butter scones either 😋😋😋
absoluteturnip@reddit
I wrote a letter of complaint to M&S saying the quality of their tights had gone down as they just wouldn’t stay up anymore. They wrote a lovely reply telling me the quality hadn’t changed and sent me a gift voucher as a courtesy. It turns out it wasn’t the tights but the 2 stone in weight that I’d put on (and have since lost!) 😂 Their tights fit perfectly now!!
ZeMuffenMan@reddit
Because they have good decision makers, right now. Eventually it will go down the toilet like every company does when good employees leave and are not sufficiently replaced.
FakeNordicAlien@reddit
The clothing quality went downhill drastically in about 2009-2010. Wonky seams, fabrics that pilled easily, bad cuts to save fabric, and they stopped doing different lengths in bottoms for a while, which has always been a big selling point for them. (They’ve brought them back, but I think they only do two lengths now in most things, rather than the three they did before then.) Then it improved a whole lot sometime between 2014-2015 and now (I haven’t bought many things there in the last few years so I’m not sure of exactly when). I don’t know for sure, but I would guess that sales dropped off a lot in 2009-2010, and they learned from it.
You also need to remember that M&S is primarily a clothing store. They sell other stuff, but clothing is their main thing, whereas places like Tesco and Sainsbury’s are primarily food stores that sell a few clothes. Tesco and Sainsbury’s could do fine if people stopped buying their clothing - they’d lose money, but it wouldn’t sink them. For M&S, clothing quality is what keeps them in business. If people stopped buying their clothing it’s possible that they’d restructure as only a food hall, but the company would change so much as to be unrecognisable, if it survived at all. So their clothing quality is a lot more important.
Integral-Fox6487@reddit
I've got to say, I vist M&S Food roughly once a month and both my last 2 visits I've found that one of the products I bought was mouldy when I opened it next day (within the use by date). Also finding an increasing amount of very short dated stock on the shelves. It feels like quality has really been slipping since Christmas
samtheking25@reddit
IMO it has gone down both in food and clothes
SoupatBreakfast@reddit
I’ve posted this exact comment recently on a different thread, but look up ‘Enshittification’ and it’ll all become clear.
AddictedToRugs@reddit
Ummm...it has. It's just that it happened 20 years ago and you don't remember what the non-toilet quality was like.
hotchy1@reddit
I tried there chocolate covered custard creams. Disgusting price... so good I'd now pay double 😆
Steel-Walnut@reddit
M and S is currently trying to take market share from Waitrose, it also nearly went bust within the last decade so it needs to be more adaptive. It also markets to lonely, career driven 30 somethings with more disposable income who eat their feelings on an evening and know they’re the first to complain. I think they’re doing great!
HerpaDerpaDumDum@reddit
There's an M&S and a Morrisons in my area. For the foods I buy, they're both about the same prices in both stores but M&S has substantially higher quality food. I'm very picky about the quality of my food too, so it's hard for me to go to a cheaper supermarket for very noticeably lower quality food.
Zelengro@reddit
M&S, at least where I am, occupies a sort of cultural pedestal that even Waitrose can’t dislodge (in fact, WR is a bit of a pretender): it’s where the posh do their shopping. Some part of me wonders if M&S are aware that if they start playing silly buggers with their mainstay customer base, Mr and Mrs Moneybucks will quickly migrate to some other swanky shop and M&S will just be another overpriced high street dinosaur.
That said I’ve never been that keen on M&S food.
coolguyxd777@reddit
what does publically traded mean?
Mobile_Frosting8040@reddit
Because they have an iron grip on their suppliers lol. They're in a position to make excessive demands that other retailers cannot.
Also this happens every time there's a difficult economic period - the market for consumer goods polarises, people in the middle either make cutbacks on leisure and discretionary spending and spend more on treating themselves to nice food or they spend less and move down to the discounters. Tesco, Sainsbury's, morrisons and asda lose out.
Don't forget as well that there's a whole class of (old retired) people who have paid off their mortgage and are basically just as comfortable as they ever were. Not everyone feels the pinch
So all M&S has to do is stay the same and watch their competition get worse
Violet351@reddit
Because that is what they make their money on. Our food/clothing is better quality than everyone else’s is what their reputation is so if they lowered their quality people would stop going there.
helpnxt@reddit
They recognise that they are a quality brand and if they let that slip then there is nothing separating themselves from similar brands and that's something they either can't or don't want to compete with.
blackcurrantcat@reddit
M&S is my absolute favourite shop for everything and there wasn’t a chance in hell 25yo me would have said that 21 years ago, 25yo me wouldn’t have even predicted that for 46yo me but I bloody love M&S now. The food hall is my happy place.
Silver-Appointment77@reddit
I think its because they had a purge of shutting shops which didnt make enough profit, so what they sell in other shops is still better quality because theyre not paying extra over heads.
Plus theyve have a lot of food places located at places that they can sell their produce more expensive, like services
DetonateDeadInside@reddit
I challenge the assertion that M&S is relatively affordable. I have been shopping there and agree with you on the quality, but I am paying two to three times over what I would pay at Aldi for my weekly shop, and I do not think most people could afford to shop there weekly for their full shop.
JohnCasey3306@reddit
People who shop at M&S do so just to be 'the kind of people who shop in M&S' and agree amongst themselves to say how great it is just to perpetuate the myth ... Truth is it's the same crap you can buy anywhere, but with worse ready meals.
Iamthe0c3an2@reddit
You get what you pay for. However I’m still not in the price bracket to do my regular shopping at an m&s
ashyboi5000@reddit
I think it depends on the m&s.
Local one to me still caters for the OAP+ age band and has about 2m2 of menswear that is beige and pastel blue.
When back in the big city, local went through ages targets. City centre, again menswear was disappointingly small and slightly more towards the older end (shop location has always been there and it was obvious women always went to town on their set day at their set time and walk around their set shop and have been doing that for 40+ years etc) .
Another out of towner had everything and mens being close to a door forced a younger merchandise on display.
oldskoollondon@reddit
M&S do have undoubtably decent quality clothes, but it really annoyed me when they shut down their UK factories in the Midlands and outsourced abroad, yet kept the same high prices.
Their customer service though is top-notch and some of their food is outstanding.
quantummimi@reddit
In retail and wholesale world, M&S is known to have a strong own label team. Be it clothes, houseware, food, most especially with supermarket items, they select their suppliers carefully. Their buyers don't just go for price. They know who their target customers are.
I've tried shopping at M&S compared to my usual Tesco weekly shop and it was almost the same total price. Unfortunately the one closest to me isn't as big and Tesco has a wider range which I need.
No_Doubt_About_That@reddit
Their foodhalls as well.
Often say around this time of year for Easter with the mini eggs as my main example you can get their own brand ones for cheaper with more in than Cadbury’s.
Sure some things they sell there are still a lot for what it is but more than you’d perhaps think are surprisingly competitive on price for the quality, especially if you put so much on a gift card each time through a get a couple percent cashback.
SojournerInThisVale@reddit
Because it’s M&S unique selling point. It gives people a reason to shop there over Tesco, Sainsbury’s, etc. precisely because it provides something different. As a shareholder, I’m a proud to own part of a company which prides itself on quality
tripod1983@reddit
Funny to see this here today as just yesterday the hubby and I were in M&S and we did say it's a shop you grow in to as you age!
Helicreature@reddit
I’ve just been online shopping for pyjama sets. Three sets from M&S £36, and Having bought them before, I know they are good quality. I don’t even bother to look anywhere else.
Saltysockies@reddit
I mostly shop at M&S, groceries and clothes, the quality is so much better and not that much more expensive.
If you don't cook and mainly live off ready meals then M&S is super expensive. Delicious but expensive.
fenaith@reddit
It did a few years back.
Share price tanked and they fell out of the FTSE100.
jasovanooo@reddit
ive abandoned asda and Tesco and now use a combination of costco and M&S cost is higher but so is quality (vastly)
The items that lured me in were a really comfy coat and the "best ever" egg mayo sandwiches lol they are so far ahead of the sludge in a Tesco sandwich its barely believable that its in the same category of food.
The only time i venture back to others is when kids demand something like pringles or some other junk that is just not sold in m&s outright
spaceshipcommander@reddit
M&S have built their entire brand on catering to middle class people who have an above average amount of money to spend and are willing to spend more on quality.
It's never been a secret that M&S is expensive and it's never hurt them before so why would they feel the need to suddenly start competing at the bottom end of the market?
Think apple. They offer a premium product to people who can afford it. They don't cheapen their brand by introducing cheaper options for people with less money. The people who tell you you can get an android for £300 less with the same specs are the same people who say marks and Spencer's is too expensive. How many iPhone users take their advice?
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
Because they wrecked their clothes market that way by lowering quality and chasing fads. Their whole reason to exist is quality at a slight premium but more accessible than specialist brands. They chase the bottom, they will always lose to Aldi, Lidl, Tesco and Sainsburys who have bigger pockets.
intonality@reddit
Being high quality has been M&S' entire USP. Now they get to be the quality option in a sea of enshittificstion and the prices are more aligned with their competitors. It's a strategic choice, if they only cost marginally more than competitors but offer higher quality then more people are likely to shop there, which will drive profits.
orsonhodged@reddit
I feel quality has reduced, it was noticeable in 2020. I remember packaging of the things I bought often changed and ingredients shifted. Their quality isn’t bad now but it’s not as good. They still excel in areas like customer service and product innovation.
nolinearbanana@reddit
When clothing sales were flagging, M&S made a choice to build a brand in the quality food business. In a very congested market, they found a niche, serving good quality lunches to busy office workers at first. They've extended since, going into petrol stations etc and widening their product range so they now directly compete with supermarkets, but they've retained their core appeal which is to provide quality.
If they ever lost this, then the business model would simply collapse because they're not big enough to compete with Sainsburys and Tesco etc on price alone.
ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit
I think the quality of M&S started to decline in the 1990s, and it’s really nothing like as good as the reputation it gained before that
It got a bit cheaper when it abandoned its ‘Made in the UK’ policy
No1InGeneral@reddit
Fully read that as m&ms like damn yeah they’re good
Original_Response776@reddit
Just to add to this..
I always knew marks and spencers was a more 'premium' place to do your food shop and i certainly couldn't do my weekly shop there regularly.
However, i really noticed the difference in their quality when I bought satsumas from there recently. At £2.50 a pop compared to the likes of tesco/Asda etc, they are incredible!
ElegantEagle13@reddit
M&S know that they're selling point has never been about price, it's always been about quality. Their business model benefits the most through retaining that quality rather than sacrificing it for price.
cooky561@reddit
I always think that quality in clothes has very little to do with the badge, I have shirts from the supermarkets that have lasted many years, and branded stuff that's lasted less than a year.
I tend to only wear branded items I am gifted, because they don't seem to last as well.
Back to food I've started using the co-op, as they aren't impossible to reach (I don't live near any large population centres) and the food is pretty reasonable.
My grandparents use M & S and the quality does seem very good.
irisiane@reddit
I think M&S and Waitrose are benefitting from shoppers shopping more budget consciously. Shopping around for price versus quality.
The quality jump honestly feels underpriced compared to Tesco and Sainsbury's
I'll buy my main shop in Aldi and splurge for a select few items such as strawberries and chicken in M&S.
Jakeii@reddit
I have seen some shrinkflation in their food products, but just quantity not any reduction in quality. Specifically their "Hot Calibrian Chilli" sauce/dip is now in a much smaller jar :/
rtrs_bastiat@reddit
Hazarding a guess they've got long term contracts with the high quality suppliers, and they're just eating the reduced margins to the point that they've become competitive enough to make up for it with increased sales. Nothing to back that up with though
durkheim98@reddit
They did a lot of soul searching in the 00s when things were getting rocky for them, I remember seeing TV programs about it.
They opted to play the long game and stick with quality.
iberianCJ@reddit
It's a bit of a mystery really I love it though, personally I shop at Waitrose for groceries and m&s for most of my clothing. It's the best of both worlds, top quality groceries and good quality clothes too! Would never go anywhere else if I'm honest.
AutoModerator@reddit
Please help keep AskUK welcoming!
When repling to submission/post please make genuine efforts to answer the question given. Please no jokes, judgements, etc.
Don't be a dick to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
This is a strictly no-politics subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.