TheaterFire

Unless there will be a dramatic shift to the left within the next 5-15 years, we'll see the breakdown of society and ecology as we know them

Posted by BaseballSeveral1107@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 203 comments

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203 Comments

ronasimi@reddit

This timeline is overly optimistic. We'll seea water war before the end of the 2020s.
View on Reddit #55533095

Hughjarse@reddit

I've saved this to read later, but just to respond to the title, it's way too late to save civilization as we know it. Greed has won, those with no scruples have ended up with all the marbles, they lie to the public about everything: The effect of pollution, their competitors motives, what their intentions are etc. You have a tonne of really wealthy people namely Musk who want to tear down society and build it in their own image. When I was young I was optimistic for the future, I am afraid not any more, the world is fucked.
View on Reddit #54553874

AzaliusZero@reddit

Yeah, ecology is done for, for sure. As for Society? Depending on how much of a trashfire America becomes I DO believe that shift to the left will happen..._everywhere else._ This country will become a living cautionary tale. That may not help a lot, but it'll help _some_ I think.
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ThiccGigass@reddit

Albeit one example, unfortunately it appears that the right in the UK are benefitting from a surge in popularity at the moment. I think that I want mine and screw you is baked deep into society now.
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HyperbenCharities@reddit

China exists, right now. We have lots of records and theory from USSR. Neoliberal America will go down and take 60-80% of humans with it. But China may innovate and build and survive (quote unquote). There are other places, other philosophies.
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AgitatorsAnonymous@reddit

China is expected to be one of the worst hit by and the earliest destroyed by climate change. They have too many mouthes to feed and their primary breadbaskets are on longitudinal lines expected to be decimated by climate change. They are going to pay more than most for the sins of capitalism
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HyperbenCharities@reddit

They have brilliant scientists and, on command, can quickly build huge physical projects. No one else has that, or ever have had.
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Art_Crime@reddit

A dictatorship can rapidly build but that doesn't mean what it builds will be the correct choice. We've seen this time and time again.
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AgitatorsAnonymous@reddit

Doesn't matter. They cannot correct this, no project they build can fix this. This isn't something they can dodge by getting to solar. The United States is responsible for the majority of the worlds emissions pre-2010. It wasn't until after that that China overtook us. We doomed the world, we have yet to feel the climate forcing from the full GWOT.
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urlach3r@reddit

>Greed has won I'm increasingly of the opinion that a lot of these wealthy tech bro guys saw "Wall Street" back in the 80s & didn't realize Gordon Gekko was the villain. They seem to have modeled their entire lives around his mantra of "greed is good".
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HommeMusical@reddit

The guy who wrote "Liar's Poker" (on a related subject) said later, "I intended the book to be a cautionary tale, not a how-to manual."
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Sknowles12@reddit

It’s kind of new age corny toward the end, but read Red Dot Moon. I learned so much! Particularly about AI and General AI. And we’re on the verge of the story right now.
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HommeMusical@reddit

Do you mean Red Moon Dot? I'll check it out. > And we’re on the verge of the story right now. A bit skeptical. So far AI is very "mid" and that isn't improving. Why would you expect an LLM - an average of all the human utterances on the Internet - to do better than your average person?
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NightStorm41255@reddit

Yes. Red Moon Dot.
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ScarlettPixl@reddit

And don't forget American Psycho and Wolf of Wall St.
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Raidicus@reddit

I actually think that a lot of wealthy people are of the mindset that the best way off the sinking ship is having incredible amounts of wealth heading into the next (chaotic) 50 years. I'm of the opinion they might be right.
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Siva-Na-Gig@reddit

It wasn’t when these decisions were made decades ago but its the only way now until money is worthless
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Raidicus@reddit

Sure. Exacerbated by many factors like Citizen's United, etc. The US is currently a government hijacked by foreign and domestic monied interests, and has lacked a leader with sufficient backbone to push back for decades. Obama couldn't even fix healthcare, so how would any politician "fix" environmental collapse?
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AwakenedSheeple@reddit

They are right, as it's too late to save the ship. What pisses me off is that they're also the reason why the ship is sinking in the first place.
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Raidicus@reddit

The west excels at identifying threats through freedom of press/speech, but lacks the organizational framework to then quickly address those threats. This isn't a bug, it's a feature. American democracy has to go through intense periods of turmoil to realign it's values every 25-50 years whereas dictatorships of various kinds can simply pivot in a matter of years. We're watching the outcome of a nimble pivot by China, and a slow clumsy one by almost all Western Democracies.
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Siva-Na-Gig@reddit

10000000000%
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MyFiteSong@reddit

An entire generation embraced "Greed is good". Guess which one?
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HVDynamo@reddit

Ugh, I have a coworker who has literally tried to tell me that greed is good…
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daretoeatapeach@reddit

If you look at the post, all the top comments are about unimportant stuff like their predictions for president. Under that, the most popular comments are people saying that OP is "as crazy as MAGA" or "touch grass." It's actually not the climate data that led me to give up hope, it's the reactions of people to this data. They don't want to believe. They don't even want to engage with the ideas. *Scientists predict global collapse but let's debate who will be elected president.* That's where we're at.
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Worriedrph@reddit

The consensus of climate scientists from the most recent major climate forums is we will have between 2-3 C of climate change by 2100. Predicting over 3 C by 2050 is not science based. It is fan fiction.
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Big_Brilliant_3343@reddit

The consensus of moderate* climate scientists. Alarmists have us at 0.36degC a DECADE if not a sooner. 
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nicecupoftea1@reddit

Living in a dream world. We're at 1.6C warming already with no slowing down. There's absolutely not the slightest chance we'll cap warming to 3C or reach it as late as 2100.
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Worriedrph@reddit

“I know more than climate scientists” -You
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nicecupoftea1@reddit

I don't have a reputation to maintain *and* I can read graphs.
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cookLibs90@reddit

The beginning of the end for civilianization is when communism was destroyed
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Cultural-Answer-321@reddit

Communism was a dead end as well.
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cookLibs90@reddit

There is nothing else you muppet, it's communism or barbarism
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Cultural-Answer-321@reddit

Communism and capitalism are both dead ends.
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OddMeasurement7467@reddit

Agree. I’m in favor of tearing it down to Stone Age. There should be no shifts whatsoever. It’s full steam ahead to the collapse of civilization.
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mrsduckie@reddit

As far as I know, emissions would need to be stopped in 70s to avoid the climate change. It's 50 years too late for that
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whereismysideoffun@reddit

We could have still been ok if we'd stopped at the 90s. If you look at all the co2 added to the atmosphere from 1850 to now, half of it has been added since the late 90s. There is a 20 year lag in carbon reaching it's max heat holding potential. We aren't even feeling the full effects now of the whole of the 2000s. We could have evened out with the 90s, though.
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James_Fortis@reddit

I believe you, and can you send your source for the 20-year carbon lag? I’d like to learn more.
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HommeMusical@reddit

You got a good answer! I'd like to add that almost _all_ climatological events except huge things like an asteroid strike or nuclear winter have multi-decade lags (at least) between inputs and outputs, simply because of the hugeness of the Earth.
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AntiAoA@reddit

https://news.ncsu.edu/2021/12/15/time-lag-could-still-lead-to-climate-tipping-point/
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NoseyMinotaur69@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/qd2w5cwolswe1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c0282ec0ff8930eda47efa7a1fe29f9b4a5c43f
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NoseyMinotaur69@reddit

We don't just reach peak effect of co2 after 20-30 years. It stays sustained until that methane is cycled out of the system and it could take centuries for the effects of co2 pollution in the 1850-1990s to subside
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HommeMusical@reddit

Hey, Mr Jarse, wanted to say exactly the same thing. I'm 62 now, and I don't really understand how young people don't go crazy with fear.
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ChestDue@reddit

When I was in college. I had a sit down meeting with my scholarship donor where he asked me how I'm going to use my engineering degree for good for example like world peace. I told him as long as there is wealth inequality there will always be war and strife and that's not a problem my engineering degree can solve....I've always been a socialist
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Toxic_toxicer@reddit

Its going to be ok
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somniopus@reddit

Not for you or me.
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Toxic_toxicer@reddit

Wow i have been downvoted to oblivion, this place is a doomer echo chamaber ah
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daretoeatapeach@reddit

You didn't provide any evidence and your post didn't provide any value. But yes, you are right. We are all doomers here. That is the point of this subreddit after all.
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chickey23@reddit

Well, duh, look where you are. It's not r/optimism
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Toxic_toxicer@reddit

Im going to go there and say that we are doomed as a species
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chickey23@reddit

You're just looking for down votes now
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Fatticusss@reddit

Very astute of you to call a sub about societal collapse a “doomer echo chamber” 🙄
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Toxic_toxicer@reddit

I just find it funny
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smartcow360@reddit

I think if u gave some more details for why u felt that way, people wouldn’t have downvoted. I hold onto hope that change is coming even if it is rly painful, that humans will survive and that there will be an experience of cooperation or “we” or even oneness once ppl rly heal and start to live in harmony with nature instead of just plundering for profit, etc. but I’m not sure anyone has the answer for how it will actually go, and given all the suffering that seems to be coming it sorta comes across as tone deaf to just shrug it all off as “it’ll be fine somehow”, but I think most of us would be happy to hear fair points about how there might be a bit more hope than it seems now
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Hughjarse@reddit

I hope you are right and I'm wrong friend, but I don't think so.
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baxx10@reddit

I think they just mean to enjoy your life while you can. And even if things get horrible and we starve, remember how incredible it is to even be alive, much less at the actual peak of history.
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EntropicSpecies@reddit

Genuine questions: 1. Why do you assume it’s better to be alive? 2. Why is this the peak of history?
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vlntly_peaceful@reddit

I would love to believe you, but without evidence, it's just wishful thinking.
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Dwip_Po_Po@reddit

I keep forgetting this reddit is collapse so I get it.
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HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit

This is the true r/collapse comment right here. You know, one of the ones I totally agree with.
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IndividualNo2670@reddit

It might be better built in their image. It might be a fresh start. Everyone lies anyway, and everyone wants things the way they want them. Anyone in any position of power will use their power to change the world in the ways they see fit. Western society is fucked and it's better that it's torn down.
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IdiotSavantLite@reddit

I wish I could make an intelligent and honest argument against your post... I wish.
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ThiccGigass@reddit

It's insane to think that this is our future. Really does drive home the need for enjoying the present.
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lordtweakslide@reddit

I feel like the people in power saw all the horrific future predictions from movies and decided to see how many they could speedrun before it all fell apart.
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lowrads@reddit

Humorously inaccurate. Catastrophists never seem to realize the scale of even small disruptions, much less the timelines. Talk to a geologist if you really want to understand what speed running the current interglacial plausibly entails. There is no recovery.
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Embarrassed_Proof386@reddit

How do I learn more about this? I was a poor student, my dumb ass drives a locomotive now for a living. I know about the Holocene that our species has enjoyed, and I understand that historically the amount of co2 in the environment corresponded with a vastly different and tbh shitty for us environment. I’d just like to learn more and educate myself and I never really figured out how lol. I’m too stupid to process scientific papers and too cynical to just believe google AI results
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lowrads@reddit

Geology is a multidisciplinary area of science. You can look at the history of organisms, or the processes of rock series, but geology tries to tie them altogether. There are many big names in the history of geology as a science, but it is still humorously regarded as one of the youngest sciences. Quite literally, continental plate drift only became widely accepted as recently as the second half of the twentieth century. James Hutton, Alfred Wegener, Inge Lehmann, Georges Cuvier, Marie Tharp and Nicholas Steno are notable as geologists, but there are contributors from all sorts of fields, such as those who worked on lenses, or polarizing filters, or instruments that can read radiological isotope ratios in samples, or the father and son team that worked out Bragg diffraction techniques, or people with great insight such as Charles Darwin. If someone was involved in natural philosophy, odds are good they were interested in geology anyhow. Not to say that their ideas were never refined, such as Hutton's view of uniformitarianism, or gradual change of the planet. However, the notion that "the present is the key to the past" remains a fundamental concept of geology as a way to understand a country as foreign as the past. The present, after all, is all we have at our disposal. A trained geologist can look at an exposed outcrop, and read out a whole set of interrelated stories from the sequences of events revealed. In individual strata, one can see something of the type of environment that created it. One might be able to see where a well-sorted river sandbar gave way to an equally well-sorted pond as the river moved, or where a former seabed eventually became a piedmont. Energy levels or sortition processes in those environments are kinda easy to see, and making such determinations about a rock is fairly empirical. However, we get into the realm of hypothesizing about a transition of surface environments when we start inferring a narrative between two facies. We can see what's there, but it's often harder to see what is missing, or the little unconformities. What separates a geologist from a rock collector is that the geologist is much more interested in formation in which the sample was found, and in how they can draw connections between it and its host or parent material. In any case, nothing I've mentioned would be omitted from an introductory geology survey course or text. Those will cover ideas such as different kinds of timelines, such as biostratigraphy, or lithostratigraphy, and then split hairs over the different methods of measuring those units, and how they can be gradually merged or disambiguated through analytical methods.
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Embarrassed_Proof386@reddit

Thanks dude!!!! I’ve always been fascinated with stuff like this, and I work adjacent to oil and gas. One dude asked me how scientists knew this stuff and I just said “the scientific method motherfucker how do you think?” And he told me carbon dating wasn’t real. Obviously we both know that’s just ignorance but I cannot make an argument to defend my position if I do not understand the subject matter. I really do appreciate it big dawg I just clicked your link
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lowrads@reddit

Geologists love roadcuts. In fact, they love them so much that it's one of the primary health hazards of the profession. Incidentally, geologists have the highest rate of DUI convictions of all the scientists. Perhaps it does make sense that people need a little liquid courage when landing STOL aircraft in boulder fields. In any case, I digress, for my main point is that before there were roadcuts made with dynamite, [there were railroad cuts.](https://morethanadodo.com/2021/03/25/railway-geology-part-1-the-flying-steed/) This sort of history is naturally interesting, but you can see the parallels to other early geologists who took advantage of large scale projects like canal building. Unlike specialists working in quarries, mines or mudlogging shafts, they got to compare samples from large parts of landscapes.
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Embarrassed_Proof386@reddit

Fuck yeah dude I drive a locomotive for work. On a river. I can find some parallel to extrapolate on. That’s really neat stuff man I love science lol
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lowrads@reddit

[Intro seminar example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgnvKVzZZes)
View on Reddit #54879662

fitbootyqueenfan2017@reddit

lol good attempt at coping. you should read a lil bit more and these predictions will change completely. also India is running out of water for more than 50% of its population around 2030 which will cause a war over water with surrounding countries well before your prediction of 2040's.
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Schwatvoogel@reddit

If you look closer it's like 1939 3 days after gleitwitz for them. It's gonna happen rly soon. India/Pakistan nuclear holocaust is the most likely kickstarter for sudden collapse.
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fitbootyqueenfan2017@reddit

ya even the recent Pakistan militant event could be a false flag for a water war. only way to avoid the inevitable fail of water system is to make the first move. use whatever class/religious excuse to legitimatize the war just not the truth that you'll dehydrate to death in a few years.
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SRod1706@reddit

Not that a left politician would change anything. The "economy " still matters more than human life. On top of that, as things get worst, people as a whole will move more to the right. They always do. 
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Embarrassed_Proof386@reddit

I had this conversation recently with my girlfriend. She was asking me what I thought about stuff like this and orange man 2.0 and I said “baby I don’t want to depress you but we’re gonna be voting for facism over the next 10-20 years when they’re howling at our gates to get in. Because their homes will be non compatible with human life. And nobody matters to us but us at that point.”
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BTRCguy@reddit

I fail to see how "left" is a useful term in this discussion. *Whose* definition of "left"?
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HardNut420@reddit

Generally being left is anti capitalist
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Sknowles12@reddit

Well that is certainly not the party calling themselves Democratics.
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HardNut420@reddit

I don't think the democrats call themselves left or at least I never heard of it like has Joe Biden called himself a leftist I don't think so like maybe dumb ass conservatives do but I never heard a Democrat call themselves left but I don't know maybe they do I don't pay attention to the democrats too much they have no motion
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LiquidBasslines@reddit

Society is breaking down already lol
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usernameuntaken@reddit

Yeah and when it eventually collapse they’re gonna blame the left that finally got to power
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Sknowles12@reddit

I think we are finally going to demand an end to a two party, no term limits form of governance.
View on Reddit #54785863

thenikolaka@reddit

Cuz they’re idiots. We need to stop listening to them until they listen to reason.
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Zen_Bonsai@reddit

Guys, ecology is already breaking down. Like severely
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Saturn_winter@reddit

Yeah I was gonna say that timeline feels optimistic at best. I think its going to be a hot summer and I'm not talking about just the temperature
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seantasy@reddit

Dark Ages 2.0 *Now with mass surveillance*
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shitnouser@reddit

Try Ice Ages 2.0
View on Reddit #54577926

Big_Brilliant_3343@reddit

Try desert ages 1.0. Everything is sand and I hate sand
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Worriedrph@reddit

Deserts are retreating world wide. [Yale](https://e360.yale.edu/features/greening-drylands-carbon-dioxide-climate-change#:~:text=Yet%20in%20most%20drylands%2C%20this,extra%20CO2%20in%20the%20atmosphere.). A climate change world will have less desert not more. Since 1900 world wide precipitation has increased by 0.03 inches per decade. [EPA](https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-and-global-precipitation#:~:text=Since%201901%2C%20global%20precipitation%20has,of%200.18%20inches%20per%20decade.). This makes sense, the planet is 2/3s covered in oceans, of course a hotter planet will have more evaporation from said oceans and therefore more rain. A climate changed plant will be hot and wet not hot and dry.
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Big_Brilliant_3343@reddit

By your comment history I am going to assume you are not in good faith commenting this.  You should understand by my mine that I dont really give a shit what moderatist bullcrap you are spewing here. Collapse has many parts, some desertification, others deluge and floods. Alarmist predictions have us at the extreme of those things  very quickly here.  I dont really care for the semantics especially as I write this on the toliet. So take your erm its actually 🤓somewhere else. 
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animals_are_dumb@reddit

Hi, Big_Brilliant_3343. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1k6kmtj/-/mp5l53c/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
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Worriedrph@reddit

I’m arguing in bad faith by including 2 strong sources? Dude, just admit that you read an article a decade ago predicting that climate change would lead to mass desertification and hadn’t read anything since. In the last decade the science has advanced due to multiple studies showing retreating deserts rather than expanding deserts.
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CroutonLover4478@reddit

It is coarse and rough https://youtu.be/_60Jfwsylb8?si=1GlWUkwjngtF-ZTa
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seantasy@reddit

And irritating
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The_Laughing_Man_152@reddit

and it gets everywhere
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SixGunZen@reddit

We have already seen and continue to see a breakdown of ecology. Have you seen the news stories about how many honeybees died off last winter? Too much hopium going on with any of these "unless X happens" ideas. It's already way too late.
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Nit3fury@reddit

One of the hardest things to grasp about collapse is that it’s not one singular event like a 9/11 that we’re waiting for. It’s slow and torturous in comparison. We’re in it NOW. It’s actively happening. There’ll be bigger events occasionally as we slide down the hill like hitting rocks, but just because we’re still living a semblance of life doesn’t mean we haven’t already gone over the edge
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Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit

"ahah politics? We're way past it my naive friend, we're in Mad Max already" A message brought to you by the same people too scared to face cops in a protest, too apathetic to walk instead of using a car, too privileged to be really hit yet by that breakdown they fantasize. If you're an adult defending personal and collective interests, you're participating in that tug of war we name politics. If you don't believe in politics and your solution to everything is to build a cabin in the woods, you may not be an adult.
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HazardBorne@reddit

walking almost anywhere in the US is joke.
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Badgereatingyourface@reddit

People still complain about Covid measures which lasted like a year. How are you going to convince them to give up all their freedoms to save the planet? You're not.
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diligent22@reddit

[https://covid.gov](https://covid.gov) nuff said
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diligent22@reddit

Lol, there are still people who believe Covid narrative. "Trust the science" lol... We are so cooked.
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collapse-ModTeam@reddit

Hi, diligent22. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1k6kmtj/-/mosiwfm/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
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Badgereatingyourface@reddit

I don't believe in conspiracy theories anymore. Sorry. Not with Trump being allowed to have power. So, yes, I think people in power genuinely were scared that Covid was going to be a lot worse than it was. I remember them thinking the death rate was going to be like 5%. It wasn't near that high of course, but it looked bad when it was going through Italy. Hindsight is 20/20. ANYWAY, my point is that you guys still bitch about Covid, like whiny annoying babies. So no, you won't want to give up anything for the environment, even if it means civilization will collapse.
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IGnuGnat@reddit

In Canada the choice is between asshole A who is a Goldman Sachs bankster and famously has moved many assets from a major real estate investment company into offshore bank accounts to avoid taxation, and asshole B whose only skill is criticizing his opponent. This is a class war. None of the people in the political class represent the middle class. They all lie to get elected and then do whatever the corporations want when in power. The only way to hold the politicians accountable is to vote them out, but voting has no meaning because none of them represent the people If you think voting makes a difference you're part of the problem I vote for cabin in the woods
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ladeepervert@reddit

Lol. No. We are in the find out phase. If we did something 30 years ago, maybe there would have been a smitgeon of hope. We are deeply fucked. Enjoy each day. It's a gift. Mother nature is coming and she's royally pissed. Amoc collapse in three, two.....
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CabinetOk4838@reddit

Agreed. Even if we switched off burning the oil now, and the “world turned green” overnight, we’ve already baked in enough greenhouse effect to bring us to 4° of warming or beyond. It’s way too late, I’m afraid.
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urlach3r@reddit

A lot of people seem to think climate change is like a lightswitch, if it gets too bad we can just turn it off. I'd say it's more like a bomb, and the explosion is already happening. To use another metaphor from a favorite show (Babylon 5) "the avalanche has already begun, it is too late for the pebbles to vote".
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g00fyg00ber741@reddit

I’ve read that it’s actually like tons of bombs going off constantly. Like, our contributions to climate change as human society are the equivalent of a shit ton of atomic bombs going off daily.
View on Reddit #54639189

Cultural-Answer-321@reddit

[https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2023/05/two-trillion-tonnes-of-greenhouse-gases--25-billion-nukes-of-hea](https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2023/05/two-trillion-tonnes-of-greenhouse-gases--25-billion-nukes-of-hea) >The current result? The average temperature at the planet’s surface is about 1.2℃ hotter than in the pre-industrial era. That’s because [adding new carbon](https://theconversation.com/a-tonne-of-fossil-carbon-isnt-the-same-as-a-tonne-of-new-trees-why-offsets-cant-save-us-200901) to the world’s natural carbon cycle has caused an imbalance in the amount of energy entering and leaving the Earth system. >To warm the entire planet takes an extraordinary amount of extra energy. [Recent research](https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/15/1675/2023/) shows we’ve added the energy of 25 billion nuclear bombs to the Earth system in just the last 50 years.
View on Reddit #54716217

g00fyg00ber741@reddit

25 billion? that is quite a shit ton
View on Reddit #54717295

afternever@reddit

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/079c16d5-0ec0-4cce-b853-7931594fd453#je8n4bIC.copy
View on Reddit #54567631

pomegracias@reddit

We don’t have 5-15 years
View on Reddit #54573416

idkarandomuser3@reddit

Why do you feel this way (not disagreeing just curious)?
View on Reddit #54708352

EnamelKant@reddit

Even if the left were to win some special election tomorrow, they couldn't save us. Modern left is intellectually bankrupt, a mix of antiquated disproven Marxist nonsense, fuzzy headed wishful thinking, nihilistic rebellion and Panglossian utopian-ism. Ask the modern left what's wrong and they're world beaters. Ask them why it's wrong and they're pretty damn good. Ask them how to solve it and you get a reason to envy the blind and deaf.
View on Reddit #54706393

m0nk37@reddit

You’ll own nothing and be happy… it’s been planned. 
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GiftToTheUniverse@reddit

5-15 years is deliriously optimistic.
View on Reddit #54684608

25TiMp@reddit

Most of the stuff you listed is not going to happen in the time span you mentioned.
View on Reddit #54680285

KernunQc7@reddit

Mistake 1: Thinking that left leaning societies are better. Mistake 2: Thinking that we have time. LtG recalibration 2023 model says that the peak is right around, now.
View on Reddit #54664319

Gadshill@reddit

Society and ecology are broken. Consequences lies ahead and only a portion of the consequence is being reaped now. Make no mistake, it is too late.
View on Reddit #54553286

Rhoubbhe@reddit

It is too late. I have moved to the 'Acceptance' stage. There is no left-wing political path in US electoral politics. There won't be a dramatic shift to the left in the United States for a single reason...the Democratic Party, a vile corporate puppet whose purpose is to suppress any economic left-wing movement. They are the business partners of the Republicans, whose purpose is to enable fascism. Anytime the left rises on a platform of economic justice, the Democrats use the tools of assassination (MLK, Malcolm X) and movement suppression (Occupy Wall Street, Anti-Globalization Protests). Several Democrats always conveniently cross over to vote with Republicans on the worst polices (Liberman, Manchin, Sinema, Fetterman, Schumer, Feinstein, etc.) The Democrats can never outwit the Senate Parliamentarian who they can fire. This is the same party that argued in court that they are a private corporation allowed to rig their primaries. Sure, Bernie and AOC are doing rallies, but those will accomplish nothing other to sheepdog people to vote for a Shit Liberal fascist in 2028, whose first acts will be to appease Republicans and cut taxes for the rich then start another war. The Democrats are a right-wing party addicted to corporate money and would rather Republicans take power than allow any populist leftwing economic movement. Unless you get a mass labor movement, crippling strikes, the left will remain a powerless boogeyman used to prop up right-wing extremists.
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g00fyg00ber741@reddit

Every single Senator voted to confirm Marco Rubio, even Bernie Sanders. Marco Rubio is totally against clean energy and refuses to acknowledge how much humans, especially the US, have contributed to climate change.
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Rhoubbhe@reddit

Exactly. Richard Nixon, a Republican President, helped created the EPA in 1970.That tells you how far the Overton window has shifted right.
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HommeMusical@reddit

What do you expect from a political party whose motto is "The dog ate my homework"? But you forgot about the _important work_ that the DNC has done on climate change! /s https://archive.thinkprogress.org/obamas-worst-speech-ever-we-ve-added-enough-new-oil-and-gas-pipeline-to-encircle-the-earth-e5e24a156910/ https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2023/06/we-now-know-the-full-extent-of-obamas-disastrous-apathy-toward-the-climate-crisis
View on Reddit #54656405

Rhoubbhe@reddit

> What do you expect from a political party whose motto is "The dog ate my homework"? Well said. That made me spit out my coffee and smile. The dog ate my homework. That perfectly encapsulates the Democratic Party.
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mancubbed@reddit

Trump being reelected was freeing in a way because it ensured 100% that we were doomed and would not ever fix anything.
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Gadshill@reddit

I think we had a window all the way up to the 2000 election to save ourselves. We rejected it and now it is just a matter of time before it all falls apart. At a certain point, so much damage has been done, that the ship is simply not recoverable. We passed that point.
View on Reddit #54554884

somniopus@reddit

I remember crying on the day they called it for Bush. Just absolutely miserable; I felt like that was our last chance, for some reason. I am so fucking tired of being right.
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Gadshill@reddit

If you haven’t yet read it, pick up Partly Cloudy Patriot by Sarah Vowell, one of the essays captures the moment perfectly.
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mancubbed@reddit

I don't disagree we probably long passed the point but Trump buried even the most insane series of positive events from changing the course now. Fusion could be achieved tomorrow and he would still find a way to burn the world and use coal.
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Gadshill@reddit

Trump is the very manifestation of this verse: Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light. We are experiencing the rage that the collective feels at the end, it didn’t have to come to this, but that is the way it turned out.
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EntropicSpecies@reddit

It’s gonna get worse before it gets worse.
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jez_shreds_hard@reddit

Maybe if there was a dramatic shift to the left (true leftism and not liberalism) 60-70 years ago, then we could have had a chance. Society would be very different now, as we would have had to drastically reduce fossil fuel consumption and live much simpler. Now, it’s over.
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Xtrems876@reddit

I mean....we're seeing this right now though
View on Reddit #54650303

economybadplantsgood@reddit

Try 5 months
View on Reddit #54650116

Jazzman897@reddit

I stopped reading when you predicted Musk would run for Prexy.  Elon is an immigrant with US citizenship and therefore cannot run.  At least get your facts straight. 
View on Reddit #54649339

Prudent-Current1257@reddit

I suggest watching Dr. William Rees to understand the situation humanity is currently facing. The problem is our lifestyle and the monetary and economic system. Unless we transition to sort some of circular economy, and reduce our population by 2/3 or even more, we will face a catastrophic collapse. There is no turn around at this point. There is a whole playlist dedicated to William Rees in Youtube. The most recent video that i was able to find was this one: [Modern Humans: Usustainable by Nature and Nurture"](https://youtu.be/wjrrww5aIz4?si=TQl1fJpDgZR-3B6C)
View on Reddit #54555832

Pyrococcus-furiosus@reddit

> Unless we [...] manage to reduce our population by 2/3 or even more, we will face a catastrophic collapse. Hi, unfortunately the video is 50+ minutes long without timestamps, so it is hard to know when he talks about this. Looking at the slides, I saw that he says at 41:00 "the more humans take, the less is available for other species". Overpopulation is a controversial topic (e.g., levels of consumption : rich countries emit way more CO2 per capita than poorer ones, consume more meat, and are more responsible for biodiversity loss). Scientists have contrasted views about overpopulation, articles from Cafaro et al, 2022 (overpopulation is a major cause of biodiversity loss) and Hugues et al, 2023 (smaller population is not necessary for biodiversity conservation) are great to explore the topic.
View on Reddit #54565957

Decent-Box-1859@reddit

Poor people want to live like wealthy people. So we need fewer people with higher living standards, not more people with lower living standards. It's basic math: population x consumption = species destruction/ overshoot.
View on Reddit #54579954

Pyrococcus-furiosus@reddit

\> Poor people want to live like wealthy people. Wealthy people should have taken the lead decades ago of having, as you said, some sort of circular economy combining reduced per capita consumption and emissions whilst their living standards stayed high. Poor people could have followed that example instead. \> So we need fewer people with higher living standards, not more people with lower living standards. Population and living standards are a balance to find. Basic math misses that we're talking about people, not numbers. Idk how 5 billion people could be removed quickly without genocides and ethnic cleansings by authoritarian regimes. Idk if Improved access to contraception and promotion of small families alone can be enough. What I know is that I'd rather have mandatory global vegan diet, carbon credits, no billionaires whose disproportionate footprints exceeds in one hour what thousands generate in their lifetime, no plane travel around the globe for a week of vacations, than having to kill someone or being killed because of beliefs, melanin production, medical condition.
View on Reddit #54587971

bebeksquadron@reddit

Where is max 1 child policy? Easily save the planet in a single generation, we can halve our number.
View on Reddit #54638462

Pyrococcus-furiosus@reddit

That's the mandatory version of State-promoted small families (like in the movie Seven Sisters). Easy but heavy children death toll. The 1 child policy in China rcontributed to a mass infanticide of about 20 millions girls.
View on Reddit #54647794

ConfusedMaverick@reddit

>The problem is our lifestyle and the monetary and economic system Phew, nothing major then. We can fix that up in a jiffy!
View on Reddit #54558078

FactCheckYou@reddit

i'm *not* for the kind of 'dramatic shift to the left' that punishes poor, working, and middle-class people, and that reduces their freedoms, and that allows secretive, unaccountable, corporate-owned governments and super-national organisations to take all of our wealth and leave us 'owning nothing' if that's the solution on offer, i'd rather watch the world burn i *am* for the kind of 'dramatic shift to the left' that correctly identifies that the richest 0.1% of individuals, families, and corporations on Earth are responsible for most of our troubles as a species, and that recognises that they are the toxic parasites that must be flushed from the body of humanity, for humanity to prosper in peace
View on Reddit #54561368

AgitatorsAnonymous@reddit

Doesn't matter which we get really. Humans as a species are more or less toast. The changes rolling fown the pipeline will destroy the environment we rely on and we will all end up starving to death.
View on Reddit #54646361

Ghostwoods@reddit

We're not going to prosper in peace no matter whom we devour at this point, but that's absolutely no reason not to have a really big, cleansing BBQ. I'll bring the ketchup.
View on Reddit #54601501

diligent22@reddit

💙🍁 [https://horizons.service.canada.ca/en/2025/01/10/future-lives-social-mobility](https://horizons.service.canada.ca/en/2025/01/10/future-lives-social-mobility)
View on Reddit #54578978

crow_nomad71@reddit

It’s too late. Look out of your window. The breakdown is happening…now. And no dance steps to the left or right will make any difference. Survival is the name of the game.
View on Reddit #54645170

Lower_Acanthaceae423@reddit

Change that to months
View on Reddit #54638697

NotTheBusDriver@reddit

2024 saw the highest ever level of C02 emissions. War is festering across the globe. We all have microplastics in our brains (as much as a teaspoon). Barring some kind of miraculous breakthrough with Artificial Super Intelligence (a fairly remote possibility at the moment) it appears we have already made our collective bed. Now we must lie in it.
View on Reddit #54636901

compucolor1@reddit

What left? We got far right and right of center. Either way corporate agendas outcompete workers rights and environmental concerns down to the last drop of oil.
View on Reddit #54635367

Fortunateoldguy@reddit

You don’t say?
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jferments@reddit

People are too brainwashed by highly targeted online personalized propaganda. They will keep drifting further to the right (because that is what silicon valley fascists are steering them towards). AI powered mass surveillance systems will identify and disrupt any pockets of resistance long before it grows into a threat.
View on Reddit #54630308

The999Mind@reddit

The one thing I take issue with is that Musk can't be president 
View on Reddit #54628674

thatmfisnotreal@reddit

Any predictions that don’t factor in ai are pointless
View on Reddit #54578333

Medaphysical@reddit

AI will only make things worse though. From an environmental and societal perspective.
View on Reddit #54601986

thatmfisnotreal@reddit

Source?
View on Reddit #54602620

Medaphysical@reddit

Source: My prediction based on the basic nature of what we're talking about. AI uses a massive amount of electricity, which will only continue to grow as it is used more and more. AI will put people out of jobs when they need them more than ever.
View on Reddit #54604552

thatmfisnotreal@reddit

Ai and automation will massively increase efficiency which means the cost of everything moves to zero. The real challenge is if society can adapt fast enough and counteract job loss with ubi.
View on Reddit #54605159

Medaphysical@reddit

> which means the cost of everything moves to zero For whom? For the corporation? Sure. Not for the consumer. Who is funding this UBI that will have to provide means for billions of people?
View on Reddit #54605880

thatmfisnotreal@reddit

You clearly don’t understand the extent to which ai and automation will reach. Corporations won’t be able to capture or contain the profits. Doomers always make that mistake.
View on Reddit #54607644

Medaphysical@reddit

Lol always make that mistake, like you know the future and have lived this over and over again.
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thisjustblows8@reddit

Not to mention the insane amount of water needed...
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temujin1976@reddit

Still amazes me people think there will be a presidential election again in the forserable future.
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Burnrate@reddit

lol, I think you meant to say "if there was a dramatic shift 15 to 25 years ago we might have been able to prevent the breakdown of society"
View on Reddit #54617628

9chars@reddit

LOL WHO THINKS THE LEFT ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.
View on Reddit #54614645

Medaphysical@reddit

I mean, there's a lot in this post but the political stuff is just plain nutty. > 2028 US presidential election candidates are Kamala Harris and Ron Desantis. Kamala wins. In 2032 it's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez vs Elon Musk, Musk wins. In 2036 it's Tim Walz vs Bill Gates, Gates wins. Harris is talking about running for governor of California. She crashed and burned in the actual primaries of 2020, and lost in 2024. She really has no political capital to win. DeSantis has no shot to ascend as the GOPs next guy. He also crashed and burned already, and is basically irrelevant at this point. We will not pass a constitutional amendment in the next 7 years to allow Elon Musk to run for president. Bill Gates will be 80 years old in 2036.
View on Reddit #54602445

kingfofthepoors@reddit

if we get to point where elon musk is allowed to run, the united states is already dead
View on Reddit #54602361

Mission-Notice7820@reddit

Ok so like here’s the deal: We could literally achieve Net Zero TODAY, and collectively decide as a species to live as one unified culture with the sole express purpose of living in harmonious balance with nature. Giving up all modern comforts. And also sacrificing about 90% of us to the gods in a volcano or something and it would not make ONE SINGLE DIFFERENCE to our fate. We’re still turbo fucked and going extinct likely this century. The feedback loops are already all tripped. Jesus is at the wheel now.
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DavidG-LA@reddit

Jesus never got his drivers license because they didn’t have cars back then. I think.
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Ghostwoods@reddit

Explains a lot, huh?
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devoted2destruction@reddit

Good. We don’t deserve this planet and nobody signed up to be a fucking wage slave their entire lives.
View on Reddit #54596281

NagromNitsuj@reddit

The left won't save you. It will just make you feel better as you burn.
View on Reddit #54595904

OmnipresentAnnoyance@reddit

Hate to break it to you, but we're WAY past the point where any change of ideology will prevent a breakdown. Were now well into the plunder stage of a breakdown where everyone tries to grab what's left before it's destroyed.
View on Reddit #54553897

Myth_of_Progress@reddit

I disagree, I think [PREFERRED IDEOLOGY] will save us!
View on Reddit #54577167

Baronello@reddit

Briefcase full of bees should do the trick!
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Grand-Page-1180@reddit

I don't think people are ever going to unlearn how screwed we are time-wise. Everything is always the next person's or next generation's problem. We run on "somedays". Someday we'll fix this or that. Someday we'll get our act together. We can't process that "someday" was actually decades ago.
View on Reddit #54564013

ScentedFire@reddit

If there is a dramatic shift left, I fear that it will only begin to occur once some truly terrible and pervasive things happen. Things that simply cannot be ignored. For some reason, all that's already happened in the US is still being ignored by large swaths of people.
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CommunistAtheist@reddit

Not just towards the left, that's a pretty vague and vast spectrum of ideologies. We need at the very least for that shift to be towards radical anticapitalism.
View on Reddit #54581933

-HELLAFELLA-@reddit

You should just start writing collapse sci-fi novels
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Morgentau7@reddit

The West really can’t afford to lose the USA
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rd1970@reddit

Musk can't run for president - he was born in South Africa.
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diligent22@reddit

Here's something based more in fact and reality, direct from our Liberal Canadian Government. Thanks Liberals - for reducing a once great nation to a shell of it's former self! 💙🍁🍁 [https://horizons.service.canada.ca/en/2025/01/10/future-lives-social-mobility](https://horizons.service.canada.ca/en/2025/01/10/future-lives-social-mobility)
View on Reddit #54578756

itsnick21@reddit

Opposite seems to be happening
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64Olds@reddit

I don't think Bill Gates is gonna be running as a Republican at the age of 80 in 2036, my friend.
View on Reddit #54576002

little__wisp@reddit

I mean, some of those predictions seem plausible. Others don't. Conservatives are manufacturing a hell of a lot of chaos, fear, and instability across the board under the guise of fake moral superiority. Up until now, they've successfully casted themselves as victims of the culture and underdogs fighting back against coastal elites using a combination of mainstream media (Fox News) and social media influencers (Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Joe Rogan, Asmongold.) But this tactic has run its course--the right controls all three branches of government and an array of state and local governments. They ARE the elites, they're targeting people that haven't done anything, and the only ones they do care about are Christians and capital owners. The Republican party has failed. But the Democratic party is bought and paid for by capital owners as well, using the guise of rainbow capitalism, meager advocacy for climate justice, and performative activism to make themselves look like they're sticking up for both the climate and the little guy. They know as well as Republicans that the culture war keeps the public divided against itself instead of calling for class action against their benefactors, so they will do nothing to enforce messaging dominance and stop it from waging. We are at a crossroads. A seismic shift to the left (not just in the US but in other countries as well) is what is needed, but real action won't be facilitated by the powers that be. Our respective left wing parties would need to be loaded with representatives as volatile as MAGA Republicans, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.
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Vegetaman916@reddit

No. We are past the point of drastic and irreversible overshoot. There will most certainly be a dramatic shift coming soon, but it won't be left or right. It'll be downward.
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arushus@reddit

I love these types of alarmist predictions. Inevitably they do not come true and the person looks ridiculous after their arbitrary time frame is passed.
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thequestison@reddit

I think it's more a balance society needs to attain, for we need a balance of everything and everyone.
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hourglass_curves@reddit

🥱 just another useless hopium article… BOE before 2027 is more than likely going to happen.
View on Reddit #54567282

Deguilded@reddit

Your supposed presidential candidates/winners are hilarious but otherwise, sure.
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jibrilmudo@reddit

> 2028 US presidential election candidates are Kamala Harris and Ron Desantis. Kamala wins. In 2032 it's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez vs Elon Musk, Musk wins. In 2036 it's Tim Walz vs Bill Gates, Gates wins. This is just dumb. Dems are not interested in rerunning Kamala, a nobody w/o VP slot. Musk isn’t a natural born citizen, so no Presidential run possible. By then, TSLA will have crashed, Musk will be still rich but a shell of former riches. Honestly, Gates is not aging well. > 2070s: - Global temperature anomaly rises over 4 degrees and starts declining, but decades too late. Temps will not decline this fast. They are only rising due to human forcing and that after 2 centuries of intense industrialization, a massive effort.
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getembass77@reddit

We're at the point they don't even want NASA studying the planet and the effects of our actions that's how bad it is. Think about that. What harm is just studying it if you don't already know there's no solution to the problem
View on Reddit #54565113

BaseballSeveral1107@reddit (OP)

This is a set of predictions for the next 60 years and what happens to society, economy, politics and ecology of this world. Unless lots of people mobilize and turn left in the next 5, 10, at most 15 years, this scenario will come true.
View on Reddit #54553194

BattleGrown@reddit

Predictions are kind of shit, because they are based on ass. Also this sub is not for making prophecies.
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kazarnowicz@reddit

You sure think a lot about yourself. You come across as very Musk-like in this attitude.
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aleexownz@reddit

Trump is doing bidens dirty work. Having a three party system would be better.
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Hilda-Ashe@reddit

> ctrl+f "amoc" > Phrase not found How do we tell them?
View on Reddit #54559665

IllustriousOne472@reddit

Ask your 5 closest friends is they think the billionaires will give away their power,money? I will guess No.
View on Reddit #54555702

StatementBot@reddit

This post links to another subreddit. Users who are not already subscribed to that subreddit should not participate with comments and up/downvotes, or otherwise harass or interfere with their discussions (brigading) The following submission statement was provided by /u/BaseballSeveral1107: --- This is a set of predictions for the next 60 years and what happens to society, economy, politics and ecology of this world. Unless lots of people mobilize and turn left in the next 5, 10, at most 15 years, this scenario will come true. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1k6kmtj/unless_there_will_be_a_dramatic_shift_to_the_left/moqq43d/
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YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit

No, not "unless".
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AbominableGoMan@reddit

Personal blogs and predictions have no place as posts here.
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dolphone@reddit

Oh you sweet summer child.
View on Reddit #54553913