I've saved this to read later, but just to respond to the title, it's way too late to save civilization as we know it.
Greed has won, those with no scruples have ended up with all the marbles, they lie to the public about everything: The effect of pollution, their competitors motives, what their intentions are etc.
You have a tonne of really wealthy people namely Musk who want to tear down society and build it in their own image.
When I was young I was optimistic for the future, I am afraid not any more, the world is fucked.
Yeah, ecology is done for, for sure. As for Society? Depending on how much of a trashfire America becomes I DO believe that shift to the left will happen..._everywhere else._ This country will become a living cautionary tale. That may not help a lot, but it'll help _some_ I think.
Albeit one example, unfortunately it appears that the right in the UK are benefitting from a surge in popularity at the moment. I think that I want mine and screw you is baked deep into society now.
China exists, right now. We have lots of records and theory from USSR. Neoliberal America will go down and take 60-80% of humans with it. But China may innovate and build and survive (quote unquote). There are other places, other philosophies.
China is expected to be one of the worst hit by and the earliest destroyed by climate change.
They have too many mouthes to feed and their primary breadbaskets are on longitudinal lines expected to be decimated by climate change. They are going to pay more than most for the sins of capitalism
Doesn't matter. They cannot correct this, no project they build can fix this.
This isn't something they can dodge by getting to solar.
The United States is responsible for the majority of the worlds emissions pre-2010.
It wasn't until after that that China overtook us. We doomed the world, we have yet to feel the climate forcing from the full GWOT.
>Greed has won
I'm increasingly of the opinion that a lot of these wealthy tech bro guys saw "Wall Street" back in the 80s & didn't realize Gordon Gekko was the villain. They seem to have modeled their entire lives around his mantra of "greed is good".
It’s kind of new age corny toward the end, but read Red Dot Moon. I learned so much! Particularly about AI and General AI. And we’re on the verge of the story right now.
Do you mean Red Moon Dot? I'll check it out.
> And we’re on the verge of the story right now.
A bit skeptical. So far AI is very "mid" and that isn't improving. Why would you expect an LLM - an average of all the human utterances on the Internet - to do better than your average person?
I actually think that a lot of wealthy people are of the mindset that the best way off the sinking ship is having incredible amounts of wealth heading into the next (chaotic) 50 years. I'm of the opinion they might be right.
Sure. Exacerbated by many factors like Citizen's United, etc. The US is currently a government hijacked by foreign and domestic monied interests, and has lacked a leader with sufficient backbone to push back for decades. Obama couldn't even fix healthcare, so how would any politician "fix" environmental collapse?
The west excels at identifying threats through freedom of press/speech, but lacks the organizational framework to then quickly address those threats. This isn't a bug, it's a feature. American democracy has to go through intense periods of turmoil to realign it's values every 25-50 years whereas dictatorships of various kinds can simply pivot in a matter of years. We're watching the outcome of a nimble pivot by China, and a slow clumsy one by almost all Western Democracies.
If you look at the post, all the top comments are about unimportant stuff like their predictions for president. Under that, the most popular comments are people saying that OP is "as crazy as MAGA" or "touch grass."
It's actually not the climate data that led me to give up hope, it's the reactions of people to this data. They don't want to believe. They don't even want to engage with the ideas. *Scientists predict global collapse but let's debate who will be elected president.* That's where we're at.
The consensus of climate scientists from the most recent major climate forums is we will have between 2-3 C of climate change by 2100. Predicting over 3 C by 2050 is not science based. It is fan fiction.
Living in a dream world.
We're at 1.6C warming already with no slowing down. There's absolutely not the slightest chance we'll cap warming to 3C or reach it as late as 2100.
We could have still been ok if we'd stopped at the 90s. If you look at all the co2 added to the atmosphere from 1850 to now, half of it has been added since the late 90s. There is a 20 year lag in carbon reaching it's max heat holding potential. We aren't even feeling the full effects now of the whole of the 2000s. We could have evened out with the 90s, though.
You got a good answer!
I'd like to add that almost _all_ climatological events except huge things like an asteroid strike or nuclear winter have multi-decade lags (at least) between inputs and outputs, simply because of the hugeness of the Earth.
We don't just reach peak effect of co2 after 20-30 years. It stays sustained until that methane is cycled out of the system and it could take centuries for the effects of co2 pollution in the 1850-1990s to subside
When I was in college. I had a sit down meeting with my scholarship donor where he asked me how I'm going to use my engineering degree for good for example like world peace. I told him as long as there is wealth inequality there will always be war and strife and that's not a problem my engineering degree can solve....I've always been a socialist
You didn't provide any evidence and your post didn't provide any value.
But yes, you are right. We are all doomers here. That is the point of this subreddit after all.
I think if u gave some more details for why u felt that way, people wouldn’t have downvoted.
I hold onto hope that change is coming even if it is rly painful, that humans will survive and that there will be an experience of cooperation or “we” or even oneness once ppl rly heal and start to live in harmony with nature instead of just plundering for profit, etc. but I’m not sure anyone has the answer for how it will actually go, and given all the suffering that seems to be coming it sorta comes across as tone deaf to just shrug it all off as “it’ll be fine somehow”, but I think most of us would be happy to hear fair points about how there might be a bit more hope than it seems now
I think they just mean to enjoy your life while you can. And even if things get horrible and we starve, remember how incredible it is to even be alive, much less at the actual peak of history.
It might be better built in their image. It might be a fresh start. Everyone lies anyway, and everyone wants things the way they want them. Anyone in any position of power will use their power to change the world in the ways they see fit. Western society is fucked and it's better that it's torn down.
I feel like the people in power saw all the horrific future predictions from movies and decided to see how many they could speedrun before it all fell apart.
Humorously inaccurate. Catastrophists never seem to realize the scale of even small disruptions, much less the timelines. Talk to a geologist if you really want to understand what speed running the current interglacial plausibly entails. There is no recovery.
How do I learn more about this? I was a poor student, my dumb ass drives a locomotive now for a living. I know about the Holocene that our species has enjoyed, and I understand that historically the amount of co2 in the environment corresponded with a vastly different and tbh shitty for us environment. I’d just like to learn more and educate myself and I never really figured out how lol. I’m too stupid to process scientific papers and too cynical to just believe google AI results
Geology is a multidisciplinary area of science. You can look at the history of organisms, or the processes of rock series, but geology tries to tie them altogether.
There are many big names in the history of geology as a science, but it is still humorously regarded as one of the youngest sciences. Quite literally, continental plate drift only became widely accepted as recently as the second half of the twentieth century. James Hutton, Alfred Wegener, Inge Lehmann, Georges Cuvier, Marie Tharp and Nicholas Steno are notable as geologists, but there are contributors from all sorts of fields, such as those who worked on lenses, or polarizing filters, or instruments that can read radiological isotope ratios in samples, or the father and son team that worked out Bragg diffraction techniques, or people with great insight such as Charles Darwin. If someone was involved in natural philosophy, odds are good they were interested in geology anyhow.
Not to say that their ideas were never refined, such as Hutton's view of uniformitarianism, or gradual change of the planet. However, the notion that "the present is the key to the past" remains a fundamental concept of geology as a way to understand a country as foreign as the past. The present, after all, is all we have at our disposal.
A trained geologist can look at an exposed outcrop, and read out a whole set of interrelated stories from the sequences of events revealed. In individual strata, one can see something of the type of environment that created it. One might be able to see where a well-sorted river sandbar gave way to an equally well-sorted pond as the river moved, or where a former seabed eventually became a piedmont. Energy levels or sortition processes in those environments are kinda easy to see, and making such determinations about a rock is fairly empirical. However, we get into the realm of hypothesizing about a transition of surface environments when we start inferring a narrative between two facies. We can see what's there, but it's often harder to see what is missing, or the little unconformities. What separates a geologist from a rock collector is that the geologist is much more interested in formation in which the sample was found, and in how they can draw connections between it and its host or parent material.
In any case, nothing I've mentioned would be omitted from an introductory geology survey course or text. Those will cover ideas such as different kinds of timelines, such as biostratigraphy, or lithostratigraphy, and then split hairs over the different methods of measuring those units, and how they can be gradually merged or disambiguated through analytical methods.
Thanks dude!!!! I’ve always been fascinated with stuff like this, and I work adjacent to oil and gas. One dude asked me how scientists knew this stuff and I just said “the scientific method motherfucker how do you think?” And he told me carbon dating wasn’t real. Obviously we both know that’s just ignorance but I cannot make an argument to defend my position if I do not understand the subject matter. I really do appreciate it big dawg I just clicked your link
Geologists love roadcuts. In fact, they love them so much that it's one of the primary health hazards of the profession. Incidentally, geologists have the highest rate of DUI convictions of all the scientists. Perhaps it does make sense that people need a little liquid courage when landing STOL aircraft in boulder fields.
In any case, I digress, for my main point is that before there were roadcuts made with dynamite, [there were railroad cuts.](https://morethanadodo.com/2021/03/25/railway-geology-part-1-the-flying-steed/) This sort of history is naturally interesting, but you can see the parallels to other early geologists who took advantage of large scale projects like canal building. Unlike specialists working in quarries, mines or mudlogging shafts, they got to compare samples from large parts of landscapes.
lol good attempt at coping. you should read a lil bit more and these predictions will change completely. also India is running out of water for more than 50% of its population around 2030 which will cause a war over water with surrounding countries well before your prediction of 2040's.
If you look closer it's like 1939 3 days after gleitwitz for them. It's gonna happen rly soon. India/Pakistan nuclear holocaust is the most likely kickstarter for sudden collapse.
ya even the recent Pakistan militant event could be a false flag for a water war. only way to avoid the inevitable fail of water system is to make the first move. use whatever class/religious excuse to legitimatize the war just not the truth that you'll dehydrate to death in a few years.
Not that a left politician would change anything. The "economy " still matters more than human life.
On top of that, as things get worst, people as a whole will move more to the right. They always do.
I had this conversation recently with my girlfriend. She was asking me what I thought about stuff like this and orange man 2.0 and I said “baby I don’t want to depress you but we’re gonna be voting for facism over the next 10-20 years when they’re howling at our gates to get in. Because their homes will be non compatible with human life. And nobody matters to us but us at that point.”
I don't think the democrats call themselves left or at least I never heard of it like has Joe Biden called himself a leftist I don't think so like maybe dumb ass conservatives do but I never heard a Democrat call themselves left but I don't know maybe they do I don't pay attention to the democrats too much they have no motion
Deserts are retreating world wide. [Yale](https://e360.yale.edu/features/greening-drylands-carbon-dioxide-climate-change#:~:text=Yet%20in%20most%20drylands%2C%20this,extra%20CO2%20in%20the%20atmosphere.). A climate change world will have less desert not more. Since 1900 world wide precipitation has increased by 0.03 inches per decade. [EPA](https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-and-global-precipitation#:~:text=Since%201901%2C%20global%20precipitation%20has,of%200.18%20inches%20per%20decade.). This makes sense, the planet is 2/3s covered in oceans, of course a hotter planet will have more evaporation from said oceans and therefore more rain. A climate changed plant will be hot and wet not hot and dry.
By your comment history I am going to assume you are not in good faith commenting this.
You should understand by my mine that I dont really give a shit what moderatist bullcrap you are spewing here. Collapse has many parts, some desertification, others deluge and floods. Alarmist predictions have us at the extreme of those things very quickly here.
I dont really care for the semantics especially as I write this on the toliet. So take your erm its actually 🤓somewhere else.
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I’m arguing in bad faith by including 2 strong sources? Dude, just admit that you read an article a decade ago predicting that climate change would lead to mass desertification and hadn’t read anything since. In the last decade the science has advanced due to multiple studies showing retreating deserts rather than expanding deserts.
We have already seen and continue to see a breakdown of ecology. Have you seen the news stories about how many honeybees died off last winter? Too much hopium going on with any of these "unless X happens" ideas. It's already way too late.
One of the hardest things to grasp about collapse is that it’s not one singular event like a 9/11 that we’re waiting for. It’s slow and torturous in comparison. We’re in it NOW. It’s actively happening. There’ll be bigger events occasionally as we slide down the hill like hitting rocks, but just because we’re still living a semblance of life doesn’t mean we haven’t already gone over the edge
"ahah politics? We're way past it my naive friend, we're in Mad Max already"
A message brought to you by the same people too scared to face cops in a protest, too apathetic to walk instead of using a car, too privileged to be really hit yet by that breakdown they fantasize.
If you're an adult defending personal and collective interests, you're participating in that tug of war we name politics. If you don't believe in politics and your solution to everything is to build a cabin in the woods, you may not be an adult.
People still complain about Covid measures which lasted like a year. How are you going to convince them to give up all their freedoms to save the planet? You're not.
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I don't believe in conspiracy theories anymore. Sorry. Not with Trump being allowed to have power. So, yes, I think people in power genuinely were scared that Covid was going to be a lot worse than it was. I remember them thinking the death rate was going to be like 5%. It wasn't near that high of course, but it looked bad when it was going through Italy. Hindsight is 20/20. ANYWAY, my point is that you guys still bitch about Covid, like whiny annoying babies. So no, you won't want to give up anything for the environment, even if it means civilization will collapse.
In Canada the choice is between asshole A who is a Goldman Sachs bankster and famously has moved many assets from a major real estate investment company into offshore bank accounts to avoid taxation, and asshole B whose only skill is criticizing his opponent.
This is a class war. None of the people in the political class represent the middle class. They all lie to get elected and then do whatever the corporations want when in power. The only way to hold the politicians accountable is to vote them out, but voting has no meaning because none of them represent the people
If you think voting makes a difference you're part of the problem
I vote for cabin in the woods
Lol. No. We are in the find out phase. If we did something 30 years ago, maybe there would have been a smitgeon of hope.
We are deeply fucked. Enjoy each day. It's a gift. Mother nature is coming and she's royally pissed.
Amoc collapse in three, two.....
Agreed. Even if we switched off burning the oil now, and the “world turned green” overnight, we’ve already baked in enough greenhouse effect to bring us to 4° of warming or beyond.
It’s way too late, I’m afraid.
A lot of people seem to think climate change is like a lightswitch, if it gets too bad we can just turn it off. I'd say it's more like a bomb, and the explosion is already happening. To use another metaphor from a favorite show (Babylon 5) "the avalanche has already begun, it is too late for the pebbles to vote".
I’ve read that it’s actually like tons of bombs going off constantly. Like, our contributions to climate change as human society are the equivalent of a shit ton of atomic bombs going off daily.
[https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2023/05/two-trillion-tonnes-of-greenhouse-gases--25-billion-nukes-of-hea](https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2023/05/two-trillion-tonnes-of-greenhouse-gases--25-billion-nukes-of-hea)
>The current result? The average temperature at the planet’s surface is about 1.2℃ hotter than in the pre-industrial era. That’s because [adding new carbon](https://theconversation.com/a-tonne-of-fossil-carbon-isnt-the-same-as-a-tonne-of-new-trees-why-offsets-cant-save-us-200901) to the world’s natural carbon cycle has caused an imbalance in the amount of energy entering and leaving the Earth system.
>To warm the entire planet takes an extraordinary amount of extra energy. [Recent research](https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/15/1675/2023/) shows we’ve added the energy of 25 billion nuclear bombs to the Earth system in just the last 50 years.
Even if the left were to win some special election tomorrow, they couldn't save us. Modern left is intellectually bankrupt, a mix of antiquated disproven Marxist nonsense, fuzzy headed wishful thinking, nihilistic rebellion and Panglossian utopian-ism. Ask the modern left what's wrong and they're world beaters. Ask them why it's wrong and they're pretty damn good. Ask them how to solve it and you get a reason to envy the blind and deaf.
Mistake 1: Thinking that left leaning societies are better.
Mistake 2: Thinking that we have time.
LtG recalibration 2023 model says that the peak is right around, now.
It is too late. I have moved to the 'Acceptance' stage. There is no left-wing political path in US electoral politics.
There won't be a dramatic shift to the left in the United States for a single reason...the Democratic Party, a vile corporate puppet whose purpose is to suppress any economic left-wing movement. They are the business partners of the Republicans, whose purpose is to enable fascism.
Anytime the left rises on a platform of economic justice, the Democrats use the tools of assassination (MLK, Malcolm X) and movement suppression (Occupy Wall Street, Anti-Globalization Protests).
Several Democrats always conveniently cross over to vote with Republicans on the worst polices (Liberman, Manchin, Sinema, Fetterman, Schumer, Feinstein, etc.) The Democrats can never outwit the Senate Parliamentarian who they can fire.
This is the same party that argued in court that they are a private corporation allowed to rig their primaries.
Sure, Bernie and AOC are doing rallies, but those will accomplish nothing other to sheepdog people to vote for a Shit Liberal fascist in 2028, whose first acts will be to appease Republicans and cut taxes for the rich then start another war.
The Democrats are a right-wing party addicted to corporate money and would rather Republicans take power than allow any populist leftwing economic movement.
Unless you get a mass labor movement, crippling strikes, the left will remain a powerless boogeyman used to prop up right-wing extremists.
Every single Senator voted to confirm Marco Rubio, even Bernie Sanders. Marco Rubio is totally against clean energy and refuses to acknowledge how much humans, especially the US, have contributed to climate change.
What do you expect from a political party whose motto is "The dog ate my homework"?
But you forgot about the _important work_ that the DNC has done on climate change! /s
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/obamas-worst-speech-ever-we-ve-added-enough-new-oil-and-gas-pipeline-to-encircle-the-earth-e5e24a156910/
https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2023/06/we-now-know-the-full-extent-of-obamas-disastrous-apathy-toward-the-climate-crisis
> What do you expect from a political party whose motto is "The dog ate my homework"?
Well said. That made me spit out my coffee and smile.
The dog ate my homework. That perfectly encapsulates the Democratic Party.
I think we had a window all the way up to the 2000 election to save ourselves. We rejected it and now it is just a matter of time before it all falls apart. At a certain point, so much damage has been done, that the ship is simply not recoverable. We passed that point.
I remember crying on the day they called it for Bush. Just absolutely miserable; I felt like that was our last chance, for some reason.
I am so fucking tired of being right.
I don't disagree we probably long passed the point but Trump buried even the most insane series of positive events from changing the course now.
Fusion could be achieved tomorrow and he would still find a way to burn the world and use coal.
Trump is the very manifestation of this verse:
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
We are experiencing the rage that the collective feels at the end, it didn’t have to come to this, but that is the way it turned out.
Maybe if there was a dramatic shift to the left (true leftism and not liberalism) 60-70 years ago, then we could have had a chance. Society would be very different now, as we would have had to drastically reduce fossil fuel consumption and live much simpler. Now, it’s over.
I stopped reading when you predicted Musk would run for Prexy. Elon is an immigrant with US citizenship and therefore cannot run. At least get your facts straight.
I suggest watching Dr. William Rees to understand the situation humanity is currently facing. The problem is our lifestyle and the monetary and economic system. Unless we transition to sort some of circular economy, and reduce our population by 2/3 or even more, we will face a catastrophic collapse. There is no turn around at this point.
There is a whole playlist dedicated to William Rees in Youtube. The most recent video that i was able to find was this one:
[Modern Humans: Usustainable by Nature and Nurture"](https://youtu.be/wjrrww5aIz4?si=TQl1fJpDgZR-3B6C)
> Unless we [...] manage to reduce our population by 2/3 or even more, we will face a catastrophic collapse.
Hi, unfortunately the video is 50+ minutes long without timestamps, so it is hard to know when he talks about this. Looking at the slides, I saw that he says at 41:00 "the more humans take, the less is available for other species".
Overpopulation is a controversial topic (e.g., levels of consumption : rich countries emit way more CO2 per capita than poorer ones, consume more meat, and are more responsible for biodiversity loss).
Scientists have contrasted views about overpopulation, articles from Cafaro et al, 2022 (overpopulation is a major cause of biodiversity loss) and Hugues et al, 2023 (smaller population is not necessary for biodiversity conservation) are great to explore the topic.
Poor people want to live like wealthy people. So we need fewer people with higher living standards, not more people with lower living standards. It's basic math: population x consumption = species destruction/ overshoot.
\> Poor people want to live like wealthy people.
Wealthy people should have taken the lead decades ago of having, as you said, some sort of circular economy combining reduced per capita consumption and emissions whilst their living standards stayed high. Poor people could have followed that example instead.
\> So we need fewer people with higher living standards, not more people with lower living standards.
Population and living standards are a balance to find. Basic math misses that we're talking about people, not numbers. Idk how 5 billion people could be removed quickly without genocides and ethnic cleansings by authoritarian regimes. Idk if Improved access to contraception and promotion of small families alone can be enough.
What I know is that I'd rather have mandatory global vegan diet, carbon credits, no billionaires whose disproportionate footprints exceeds in one hour what thousands generate in their lifetime, no plane travel around the globe for a week of vacations, than having to kill someone or being killed because of beliefs, melanin production, medical condition.
That's the mandatory version of State-promoted small families (like in the movie Seven Sisters). Easy but heavy children death toll. The 1 child policy in China rcontributed to a mass infanticide of about 20 millions girls.
i'm *not* for the kind of 'dramatic shift to the left' that punishes poor, working, and middle-class people, and that reduces their freedoms, and that allows secretive, unaccountable, corporate-owned governments and super-national organisations to take all of our wealth and leave us 'owning nothing'
if that's the solution on offer, i'd rather watch the world burn
i *am* for the kind of 'dramatic shift to the left' that correctly identifies that the richest 0.1% of individuals, families, and corporations on Earth are responsible for most of our troubles as a species, and that recognises that they are the toxic parasites that must be flushed from the body of humanity, for humanity to prosper in peace
Doesn't matter which we get really. Humans as a species are more or less toast. The changes rolling fown the pipeline will destroy the environment we rely on and we will all end up starving to death.
We're not going to prosper in peace no matter whom we devour at this point, but that's absolutely no reason not to have a really big, cleansing BBQ. I'll bring the ketchup.
It’s too late. Look out of your window. The breakdown is happening…now. And no dance steps to the left or right will make any difference. Survival is the name of the game.
2024 saw the highest ever level of C02 emissions. War is festering across the globe. We all have microplastics in our brains (as much as a teaspoon). Barring some kind of miraculous breakthrough with Artificial Super Intelligence (a fairly remote possibility at the moment) it appears we have already made our collective bed. Now we must lie in it.
What left? We got far right and right of center. Either way corporate agendas outcompete workers rights and environmental concerns down to the last drop of oil.
People are too brainwashed by highly targeted online personalized propaganda. They will keep drifting further to the right (because that is what silicon valley fascists are steering them towards). AI powered mass surveillance systems will identify and disrupt any pockets of resistance long before it grows into a threat.
Source: My prediction based on the basic nature of what we're talking about.
AI uses a massive amount of electricity, which will only continue to grow as it is used more and more.
AI will put people out of jobs when they need them more than ever.
Ai and automation will massively increase efficiency which means the cost of everything moves to zero. The real challenge is if society can adapt fast enough and counteract job loss with ubi.
> which means the cost of everything moves to zero
For whom? For the corporation? Sure. Not for the consumer.
Who is funding this UBI that will have to provide means for billions of people?
You clearly don’t understand the extent to which ai and automation will reach. Corporations won’t be able to capture or contain the profits. Doomers always make that mistake.
I mean, there's a lot in this post but the political stuff is just plain nutty.
> 2028 US presidential election candidates are Kamala Harris and Ron Desantis. Kamala wins. In 2032 it's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez vs Elon Musk, Musk wins. In 2036 it's Tim Walz vs Bill Gates, Gates wins.
Harris is talking about running for governor of California. She crashed and burned in the actual primaries of 2020, and lost in 2024. She really has no political capital to win.
DeSantis has no shot to ascend as the GOPs next guy. He also crashed and burned already, and is basically irrelevant at this point.
We will not pass a constitutional amendment in the next 7 years to allow Elon Musk to run for president.
Bill Gates will be 80 years old in 2036.
Ok so like here’s the deal:
We could literally achieve Net Zero TODAY, and collectively decide as a species to live as one unified culture with the sole express purpose of living in harmonious balance with nature. Giving up all modern comforts. And also sacrificing about 90% of us to the gods in a volcano or something and it would not make ONE SINGLE DIFFERENCE to our fate. We’re still turbo fucked and going extinct likely this century. The feedback loops are already all tripped. Jesus is at the wheel now.
Hate to break it to you, but we're WAY past the point where any change of ideology will prevent a breakdown. Were now well into the plunder stage of a breakdown where everyone tries to grab what's left before it's destroyed.
I don't think people are ever going to unlearn how screwed we are time-wise. Everything is always the next person's or next generation's problem. We run on "somedays". Someday we'll fix this or that. Someday we'll get our act together. We can't process that "someday" was actually decades ago.
If there is a dramatic shift left, I fear that it will only begin to occur once some truly terrible and pervasive things happen. Things that simply cannot be ignored. For some reason, all that's already happened in the US is still being ignored by large swaths of people.
Not just towards the left, that's a pretty vague and vast spectrum of ideologies. We need at the very least for that shift to be towards radical anticapitalism.
Here's something based more in fact and reality, direct from our Liberal Canadian Government.
Thanks Liberals - for reducing a once great nation to a shell of it's former self! 💙🍁🍁
[https://horizons.service.canada.ca/en/2025/01/10/future-lives-social-mobility](https://horizons.service.canada.ca/en/2025/01/10/future-lives-social-mobility)
I mean, some of those predictions seem plausible. Others don't.
Conservatives are manufacturing a hell of a lot of chaos, fear, and instability across the board under the guise of fake moral superiority. Up until now, they've successfully casted themselves as victims of the culture and underdogs fighting back against coastal elites using a combination of mainstream media (Fox News) and social media influencers (Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Joe Rogan, Asmongold.) But this tactic has run its course--the right controls all three branches of government and an array of state and local governments. They ARE the elites, they're targeting people that haven't done anything, and the only ones they do care about are Christians and capital owners. The Republican party has failed.
But the Democratic party is bought and paid for by capital owners as well, using the guise of rainbow capitalism, meager advocacy for climate justice, and performative activism to make themselves look like they're sticking up for both the climate and the little guy. They know as well as Republicans that the culture war keeps the public divided against itself instead of calling for class action against their benefactors, so they will do nothing to enforce messaging dominance and stop it from waging.
We are at a crossroads. A seismic shift to the left (not just in the US but in other countries as well) is what is needed, but real action won't be facilitated by the powers that be. Our respective left wing parties would need to be loaded with representatives as volatile as MAGA Republicans, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.
No. We are past the point of drastic and irreversible overshoot. There will most certainly be a dramatic shift coming soon, but it won't be left or right.
It'll be downward.
I love these types of alarmist predictions. Inevitably they do not come true and the person looks ridiculous after their arbitrary time frame is passed.
> 2028 US presidential election candidates are Kamala Harris and Ron Desantis. Kamala wins. In 2032 it's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez vs Elon Musk, Musk wins. In 2036 it's Tim Walz vs Bill Gates, Gates wins.
This is just dumb. Dems are not interested in rerunning Kamala, a nobody w/o VP slot. Musk isn’t a natural born citizen, so no Presidential run possible. By then, TSLA will have crashed, Musk will be still rich but a shell of former riches. Honestly, Gates is not aging well.
> 2070s: - Global temperature anomaly rises over 4 degrees and starts declining, but decades too late.
Temps will not decline this fast. They are only rising due to human forcing and that after 2 centuries of intense industrialization, a massive effort.
We're at the point they don't even want NASA studying the planet and the effects of our actions that's how bad it is. Think about that. What harm is just studying it if you don't already know there's no solution to the problem
This is a set of predictions for the next 60 years and what happens to society, economy, politics and ecology of this world. Unless lots of people mobilize and turn left in the next 5, 10, at most 15 years, this scenario will come true.
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The following submission statement was provided by /u/BaseballSeveral1107:
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This is a set of predictions for the next 60 years and what happens to society, economy, politics and ecology of this world. Unless lots of people mobilize and turn left in the next 5, 10, at most 15 years, this scenario will come true.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1k6kmtj/unless_there_will_be_a_dramatic_shift_to_the_left/moqq43d/
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