Left or right? | TheaterFire

[-]

ClimateQueasy1065@reddit

Watch some ballistics tests and then get a different gun for defense

[-]

xTeamRwbyx@reddit (OP)

This is just my shop gun since the safe I was given by my boss is too tight for my canik and my 1911

[-]

EsotericAbstractIdea@reddit

LEHIGH defense maximum expansion is the only real choice. This gun sucks but will do if it's your only gun.

https://youtu.be/7bLonprIWm4?si=HI6oZl5vcxdNeyzh

[-]

cm249203@reddit

Logged in specifically to recommend Lehigh. That is one nasty round. I personally LIKE that it doesn't over penetrate. Shot some at a pig shoulder, and it DESTROYED it haha

[-]

SpecialistNote6535@reddit

No 4 layers of denim? Not to FBI standards

[-]

EsotericAbstractIdea@reddit

https://youtu.be/5Bo44nokg88?si=v1GN-ydaDWNP_4Qf

Coincidentally the same guy.

I don't know why the fbi test is so important. It's not like we out here shooting dogs

[-]

SpecialistNote6535@reddit

Lmao

And it’s a good standard by which you can compare rounds, but removing the fabric barrier alters it to the point that you shouldn’t compare a test without fabric to one with fabric.

It is also a generally good test for determining if a handgun round is capable of hitting vital organs, even if the assailant is at varying angles which make the path to vital organs longer (read: sideways or through extended biceps)

[-]

Gr144@reddit

Sell this and buy a compact pistol that will fit in your safe.

[-]

sabrefencer9@reddit

Keep it and get an additional, compact pistol. 410/45 pistols are stupid, but make for really fun range toys

[-]

THEOGELI@reddit

Fudd

[-]

ClimateQueasy1065@reddit

Hey that 1911 has 3 more capacity than this lol

[-]

P0RTERHAUS@reddit

I'd encourage you to look at what the Federal 000 buck handgun load does. It is very compelling.

[-]

ClimateQueasy1065@reddit

It’s actually not, you’re definitionally better off with any 9mm pistol that would have a capacity anywhere from 10-20 rounds.

[-]

P0RTERHAUS@reddit

Yeah but this being a compact revolver relegates it to a fundamentally separate role. It's about the same size as a 3" J-frame. This is a holdout defensive weapon, not a combat handgun. And, let's be real, four sufficiently-penetrating 000 buckshot projectiles in a 2" group will absolutely kill somebody dead if you're able to make a solid hit. Especially as gel testing makes it appear the shot sort of starbursts when it impacts a target.

[-]

ClimateQueasy1065@reddit

Size for capability I would still take a P365 or something over one of these, but you could do a lot worse with plenty of handguns I suppose.

[-]

Thefireninja99@reddit

Right

[-]

jasont80@reddit

I used to load #7, #4, 000 Buck, and 2 .45LCs. Snake, bear, or any other threat, just keep pulling.

[-]

smax70@reddit

Why not both? Combat mix!

[-]

TheVIRUS1973@reddit

Por que no los dos?

[-]

Freedom_Gundam@reddit

Aah yes, the fudd gun. Morons think it’s a great self defense gun and people that actually shoot know it’s garbage.

[-]

xTeamRwbyx@reddit (OP)

I like how it handles honestly since it’s also just my little shop gun my since my canik or 1911 won’t fit in the gun case I got for free for the room I work in has a nice finger scanner on though but I’m going to buy a bigger safe at some point

But at 5-10 feet I’m hitting someone if I had to use it

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

Are we talking for defensive purposes? Well, then the right side, every time. .410 is stupid in a revolver, and just stupid in general if you're using it for anything other than snakes. You can barely fit more than 3 or 4 pellets into the shell, and the amount of powder behind it is laughable due to that; not to mention the loss of muzzle velocity due to the cylinder gap, and you're just hurting yourself even more. The only thing .410 should be used for is teaching little kids how to use a shotgun, or for some kind of sport shooting.

That said, I'll be honest, .45 Long Colt went the way of the dodo with the advent of .44 Magnum and .44 Special, the latter of which has greater ballistics to .45LC while having basically the same amount of recoil. I say this as an avid fan of .45LC and cowboy action competitions; it's an obsolete cartridge. If you had a .454 Casull version of the Judge, that one can ALSO shoot .410, if you're adamant on using that joke of a shell; but I wouldn't bother.

Now, if you're going out killing snakes, rats and super pesky birds, by all means, load up some .410.

[-]

spotz300@reddit

That is a lot of info packed in a solid post. Thanks. It is why I sit in this forums, learn lots of bits you couldn’t really learn in most spaces.

[-]

BeenisHat@reddit

Standard pressure 45 Colt is kind of a waste, meant to be safe in old guns. Buffalo Bore has a 225gr soft point moving at about 1000fps. For a standard pressure load, that's 45acp territory and probably about as hot as I'd want to shoot from a 2.5" Taurus. Also, the standard Judge lineup isn't rated for +p ammo, so that's about as good as it gets.

45 Colt with heavy bullets at +P pressures (only Ruger wheelguns need apply lol) are absolutely not obsolete. Buffalo Bore makes their 45 Colt +p "Deer Grenade" which is a 260gr hard cast-gas checked bullet moving at 1500fps from a 5"bbl. That's right in 44mag's neighborhood. It's even better from lever guns.

[-]

Epyphyte@reddit

Thats 25% more velocity than standard .45 ACP!

[-]

BeenisHat@reddit

out of a 5" bbl. From that snubbie, I'm guessing it will be below 1000fps. So, it's subsonic but you can suppress it because big dumb revolver lol.

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

DEER GRENADE lmao wild

[-]

BeenisHat@reddit

I laughed when I saw it and thought 'eewww' but the numbers that it looks like you can get are impressive

If I were buying a big bore revolver, I'd probably still buy 44 Mag just because factory loads are more available without having to resort to specialty shops like Buffalo Bore, Doubletap or Georgia Arms.

.45 Colt can do it but you should probably handload if you're gonna go that route.

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

What I do know is if I put that sorta shit in my single actions they'd fucking explode.

[-]

BeenisHat@reddit

Yeah, the page specifically says only to load it in firearms capable of handling it. Basically Rugers and lever guns.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=335

[-]

Started_WIth_NADA@reddit

You do realize that .410 is regularly used for killing Turkeys?

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

You do realize I pointed out using it for birds like twice?

[-]

Started_WIth_NADA@reddit

“Super pesky birds” and Turkeys are completely different categories. You also said “The only thing .410 should be used for is teaching little kids how to use a shotgun, or for some kind of sport shooting.”

[-]

Rdubya291@reddit

Do you just argue to hear the sound of your own voice, or does it give you some sort of weird pleasure being contentious just for the sake of being contentious?

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

I find turkeys to be very pesky. And hunting is a form of sport shooting.

[-]

Started_WIth_NADA@reddit

Ok, way to back peddle.

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

I think in this case it would be doubling down rather than backpedaling, but you are right, I'm being quite an ass.

[-]

SynthsNotAllowed@reddit

I feel like the persistence of .410 is indicative of a demand for a small but effective shotgun cartridge that is being neglected. I know 28 gauge exists, but I've never seen a 28 gauge shotgun nor do I think I know anybody that has.

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

I've actually got a 28 gauge AR with a few twelve rounds mags. I don't use it for much beyond killing clays for shits n giggles though; don't care for the taste of duck or geese nearly enough to go hunting em.

[-]

Swarted-Dingus@reddit

Dang that's interesting. Is it blowback? My friend built one in .410 and it's a blowback upper.

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

Gas-piston operated, which is another point of contention in trying to get everything JUST right. I'm thinking because it's only 28g maybe we should just kill the gas system and try for blowback, but I wouldn't have the first clue where to begin; my grandpa is the EXPERT gunsmith

[-]

Swarted-Dingus@reddit

Just doing a quick search seems like the .410 blowback uppers generally only do a 2 1/2 in and have around a 3lb bolt and carrier so I'd expect a 28ga bolt for blowback would have to be quite a bit heavier than that. So it probably would not be worth it if you have to have a 6lb bolt or more. But that's just an educated guess based off a quick search

[-]

Lilsexiboi@reddit

28 guage AR? I would love to see that. Sounds interesting

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

It's this really whacky pet project my grandpa and I have been working on for like four years. Basically took an AR12 and swapped out the barrel and chamber for a tighter gauge, tightened up the head spacing to fit the shorter shells, and right now we're tryna figure out, 1, proper bolt weight and spring tension to make sure it cycles more smoothly (tends to not cycle back far enough to pick up a shell, or won't have enough energy slamming forward to push it all the way into battery), while still being sturdy enough for the pressures, AND, we're tryna see how we could make it feed double stack mags without major rimlock.

[-]

Lilsexiboi@reddit

You should post some stuff about that project that's pretty unique

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

I might, idk. I'd have to bring it up with my grandpa

[-]

Lilsexiboi@reddit

I'm more interested in how you machined a bolt for that

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

Laser scanning the original bolt, scaling it down, building a 3D printed model first to check spacing, then getting it onto Gpa's lathe.

[-]

Swarted-Dingus@reddit

28ga and .410 are still used quite a bit in clay shooting. Some events require you to use 12, 20, 28, and .410. However I agree if you're not in that world 28ga is a strange medium personally I really like it for ground squirrels and that kinda thing because you can have a few more pellets than .410 but still relatively small

[-]

Jesuswasstapled@reddit

.410 is a great small game load.

[-]

y2ketchup@reddit

Those .410s appear to be slugs. . .

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

I don't know why you'd bother, because the .45LC had more diameter and, iirc, a higher muzzle velocity muzzle energy by a significant margin

[-]

Swarted-Dingus@reddit

This firearm is especially ineffective with .410 at any range due to it being rifled. It has a tendency to sling pellets weird directions

[-]

desideriozulu@reddit

Shit I forgot about the rifling. Yeah that makes it even worse.

[-]

universalenergy777@reddit

Snake gun, .45LC is a bonus.

[-]

Deathcat101@reddit

Just watch Paul's video.

He loved to talk about how worthless that gun is.

[-]

Foxxy__Cleopatra@reddit

"You be the Judge."

[-]

rddog21@reddit

4-410 a 1- 45LC show stopper. While it’s compact I’d get away from the poly. Saw one blowup in a buddy’s hand. He had a total of 20 rounds of 45LC through it

[-]

JakesterAlmighty99@reddit

Neither. The Redneck Boner Machine is garbage.

[-]

Content_Assist_6804@reddit

Right

[-]

The-TimeStumbler@reddit

Left, right, left, left, right

[-]

Johnny_English_MI6@reddit

You've unlocked a cheat code

[-]

willynillee@reddit

Unlimited defects

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Please explain. What are some of the unlimited defects of this gun? One of my neighbors has one and I briefly considered getting one, but not for long enough to have researched it.

[-]

EsotericAbstractIdea@reddit

The only "defect" I had with this gun is that when ejecting brass, it would get hung up on the grip. You can slice that part of the rubber grip off with a box cutter though.

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Good to know, thanks.

[-]

IrwinJFinster@reddit

I have had no problems with mine. I find it a very useful “out in the field doing stuff” rural handgun. I would not choose it for home defense.

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Good to know, thanks.

[-]

Resident_Skroob@reddit

I dunno if this works in this subreddit, but...

Gunnitbot! Taurus

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Thanks, but I'm very aware of the general reputation of Taurus. It sounds like he's saying this specific model is known for defects. The specific model matters beyond just the brand because the TX22 has an excellent reputation (but is the only Taurus I'm aware of that does). Since I'd go with the S&W version anyway if I did get one, what I'm really wanting to know is if he's saying this 410/45 combo type of gun in general tends to have a lot of problems, not just the Taurus version.

[-]

Murky-Sector@reddit

He wasnt talking to you he was summoning a bot

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Thanks. The bot reference was clearly about the Taurus brand, which would not answer or be relevant to my question even if it did work.

[-]

Superfly1911@reddit

Up, down, up, down, B, A, start.

[-]

shaft196908@reddit

I knew someone with the judge, the gun sucks no matter what you use. If anything, .410 slug was ok. .410 slugs are too expensive to be just ok.

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Specifically how does the gun suck? One of my neighbors has one and I briefly considered getting one, but not for long enough to have researched it.

[-]

aj_drogo@reddit

Because the Governor exist. Much better gun.

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Thanks, but of course the S&W is better than the Taurus (which is why the Taurus is half the price). I guess my question was unclear. It sounds like he's saying this 410/45 combo type of gun sucks in general, not just the Taurus version, so I want to know why. Is it just the relative weakness of the 410 shot? The expense? Something else that would apply to any brand of the gun type?

[-]

dontakemeserious@reddit

There's nothing 'wrong' with the Judge. It's just not the best thing to shoot 410 out of, but what do you expect with a 2.5" barrel.

45 long colt isn't super cheap or common, and it ain't the best revolver round either, but I haven't met anyone willing to let me shoot them with either option.

It's a pretty fun gun to shoot, and mine has always been reliable. Not my first option for self defense, but it's a fine piece all the same. A lot of folks on here turn their head on anything that isn't the "best ballistic gel performing, highest foot pounds of energy delivering, never failed once in 100,000 rounds" thing around.

[-]

shaft196908@reddit

Exactly. With .45 ACP, the round has to travel thru the smooth bore of the cylinder before it gets to the short rifled section of barrel. Shooting .410 with shot thru a rifled short barrel, shot goes all over the place. .410 slug at least is seated closer to the rifling when shot.

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Thanks. I haven't looked closely enough at these type guns to know the rifling details, but there is a 13" barrel version.

[-]

DY1N9W4A3G@reddit

Thanks much. Even if I were to seriously consider this type of gun, I'd go with the Home Defender version that has a 13" barrel.

I don't know a lot about 45 Long Colt, so that is indeed part of what I was asking.

I know exactly the type you're talking about, and I'm not among them. I own a Taurus TX22 and I love it. I didn't buy it for self defense, so no reason to spend 3 times as much for a trainer/plinker. It's a great gun for what it is.

[-]

High_Anxiety_1984@reddit

Both

[-]

Tristanime@reddit

How about you put them in in a random order a la buckshot roulette

[-]

mctwiddle@reddit

2 and 2, then take the bullet out of one brass and stick it in the shell plastic and call it a half and half

[-]

rittersgold@reddit

Bodyguard 2.0 would be cheap and great replacement

[-]

Chet_Manley24@reddit

Check out ShootingTheBull410 on YouTube. He has a whole series of ammo and accuracy tests on the Judge.

Buckshot is the way to go. Get the Federal 000 Handgun load. Despite what people here are saying, the Judge is a viable defensive weapon.

https://youtu.be/ZDMDd4eAQO0?si=E8EgsMQ0g1_nU4rM

[-]

John_from_YoYoDine@reddit

alternate A B A B A

[-]

Top_Sherbet_8524@reddit

Load both

[-]

Everdaft@reddit

Depends, do you wanna blow a hole through a dude or do you wanna BLOW a HOLE through a dude?

[-]

Holiday-Hyena-5952@reddit

Neither.

[-]

Jetpack_Attack@reddit

I was looking at the Circuit Judge with the stock. Wouldn't the the .410 shot shells be good for home defense? I'm sure it depends on the load of course.

Plus it would make me feel like a cowboy.

[-]

BeenisHat@reddit

If you want a shotgun for home defense, buy an actual shotgun. If you want a big bore wheel gun, there are better options. A Ruger Redhawk will outperform the Judge every day of the week and give you access to everything from easy shooting cowboy loads to +p heavy bullet loadings that rival 44 Mag.

[-]

Jetpack_Attack@reddit

I have one already, but just a basic pump.

I was hoping that it would be more maneuverable indoors. My place has a lot of tight corners. Sad to hear about the accuracy and spread issue. I suppose you can't have everything you want.

[-]

Snoo58386@reddit

Nah, if you’ve pattern the 410 you’ll see you can’t get many pellets on paper past a couple feet. Real shame cause that’s why people love it, but I think it’s cause the barrels too short idk.

[-]

Jetpack_Attack@reddit

That's too bad.

It's a beautiful dream. But that's all it is.

[-]

IrwinJFinster@reddit

It’s rifled, so the pellets spin out.

[-]

MetalDogmatic@reddit

Depends on what you're expecting: humans, I'd rather use 45lc because it has less recoil, about the same as 9mm in my opinion, and is subsonic or I would use .410 personal defense shot but since you don't seem to have those I'd go with the 45lc; bears or other large critters, .410 slug all day, I've seen some ballistics charts claim that .410 slugs have as much energy as a 44 magnum, I've seen others claiming they have less than the 45lc; .410 shot would also be good for snakes, having fired both 45lc and .410 out of my Judge I can tell you that the .410 even with clay pigeon loads has a lot more recoil than 45lc which generally translates to more energy hitting the target that being said the short barrel and cylinder gap probably does rob you of some of that energy so don't try sniping with the thing but at personal defense range you should be fine

[-]

Snoo58386@reddit

You need to pattern that 410. I couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn with mine. Hell, I could barely hit a snake a few feet in front of me with bird shot. The pellet spread was wayyy too wide and inconsistent. I love the idea of 410, just sayin try different ammo and make sure you understand what you’re working.

[-]

MArkansas-254@reddit

Well, this blows my theory. 🤣

[-]

IrwinJFinster@reddit

Once you know the pattern you can’t miss a snake under 20’. But shot certainly is too wide to be useful beyond that.

[-]

PbCuSurgeon@reddit

At the price of both of types of ammo for their performance, pass. .44 magnum is cheaper. For the same price, if one wanted a pistol that shot “shotgun shells” (the whole bragging right of the judge), they could chop down a cheap single shot 12GA for the price of a new judge, tax stamp included.

[-]

AKC74Y@reddit

If you want a “shotgun shell” to shoot from a pistol, a cheap single box of 9mm or .357 rat shot is plenty to find out for yourself why shot in a rifled barrel is a bad idea.

[-]

IrwinJFinster@reddit

I carry two .410 shotshells for snakes, and 3 Long Colts for wild dogs or a pig . The shot shell spins out fast. Can’t miss under 20 feet, can’t hit beyond 25 feet.

[-]

P0RTERHAUS@reddit

Get the Federal 000 Buck Handgun load. 4 .36" balls which penetrate to a consistent 14" in gel and get really nice groupings. It is the only load which makes the judge worth using against anything but snakes and birds. And it's really compelling.

[-]

THEOGELI@reddit

No judgement but honestly a 9mm semi automatic would probably be the best all around. If you want something small get a g43x or a p365x or something. Literally twice the ammo and it’s cheaper to shoot. I will say .410 revolvers are really good for dumb shit in the woods

[-]

RacerXrated@reddit

.45 Colt is the far better cartridge, but that's a terrible .45 Colt platform.

[-]

Underwater_Karma@reddit

I'd rather be shot by a .410 from a 1.5" barrel, then pistol whipped by a motivated expert

[-]

Underwater_Karma@reddit

Is there an option 3?

[-]

xTeamRwbyx@reddit (OP)

Pistol whip them

[-]

Underwater_Karma@reddit

That's like option #1

[-]

Hour_Barracuda4902@reddit

Somebody has never been shot by a .410 before

[-]

BandGeek96@reddit

No Judgement

[-]

pacmanwa@reddit

Candy stripe it. Left, right, left, right., left.

[-]

Pimpdrew@reddit

.454 casull is the correct answer

[-]

Pimpdrew@reddit

The raging judge does though^

[-]

Pimpdrew@reddit

Which likely isn't possible here....

[-]

rockit_jocky@reddit

Party load

[-]

imdirtydan1997@reddit

The trigger is rough and heavy. The 410 shells get stuck in the cylinder after fired. The cylinder on mine slides back on the guide rod for some reason. 45 long colt is obsolete and priced accordingly. 410 slugs are surprisingly decent but expensive and pointless in such a short barrel. The sights are way off on mine and cannot be adjusted.

All that said, it fires whatever you put in it and works every time. I think I paid a little over $300 for mine and it was fun for a few range trips. However, it’s sat in the safe for a while now.

[-]

NopeRope13@reddit

Alternate

[-]

Unusual-Ad-1056@reddit

Only .410 I shoot out of mine that gets any distance is the pdx. 6 shot shoots snakes at about 5 yards max. Gun is loud af too lol. I don’t have any .45 for it because I just use it for snakes

[-]

Snoo58386@reddit

That’s good to know. Thanks.

[-]

MArkansas-254@reddit

Depends on what I’m up against. W legs, right. No legs, left! 👍

[-]

skyXforge@reddit

Like half my family thinks the judge is the greatest invention of the last millennium. I always die of cringe when they talk about them.

[-]

Possible_Ad_4094@reddit

Left. I've had a Judge for years, with a longer barrel too and they are very inaccurate. Those 45 rounds have an inch of empty unrifled chamber to pass through before reaching that tiny rifled section. It will be terribly inaccurate.

Keep it loaded with 00 Buck. You basically get four 9mm rounds per shell. Five trigger pulls is like firing twenty 9mm rounds.

[-]

Diligent-Parfait-236@reddit

The slugs that won't engage the rifling at all is sure to improve accuracy.

[-]

BeenisHat@reddit

Exactly. And we're talking about a 2.5" Judge. You're not shooting far with that anyway.

[-]

BeenisHat@reddit

Right. Pick up some Buffalo Bore standard pressure ammo for it. The standard Judge isn't rated for +p ammo, which sucks because it gives away a ton of performance. Standard pressure 45 Colt will yield ballistics similar to 45 ACP.

[-]

joharposu@reddit

Left right left right left. Where I would need to carry it, it would be for snakes or a bear. So one trigger pull for a snake, or pull, pull, pull, pull, pull for bear and realize I died somewhere around pull 3.

[-]

defsteph@reddit

Any gun that can be made Jamaican is a good gun!

Buckshot Buckshot Buckshot!

[-]

xTeamRwbyx@reddit (OP)

slugs

[-]