Does the UK workforce work hard enough?

Posted by Shot-Performance-494@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 30 comments

I know this is a very controversial question and I know there are millions of people in this country that work extremely hard trying to get by. In this post I’m just talking from my experiences and am happy to be corrected. I work for an engineering company where companies will bring their products to us for testing. In my experience the engineers coming to test their products always leave early or on time (5pm) the absolute latest, even if there are issue with the device they are bringing to test that they could work to fix. I can’t help but think that in other countries these engineers would be staying late and trying out different things to get the job done. I’ve also worked at bars and restaurants where staff are so eager to go they start closing and cleaning up 2 hours before last orders, surely putting off customers from staying and getting more drinks. My friends who are tradesmen brag about finishing at 4pm everyday and 12 on a Friday. I also see these engineers constantly scrolling on their phones and reading the news during work hours. I know that because of wages and taxes in this country hard work isn’t fully rewarded. But maybe if we worked harder this would boost the productivity of the companies that we work for, which *may* lead to better long term outcomes for their employees, possibly. Work life balance is of course a massive priority in this country and rightly so it’s just that the UK has a massive productivity problem that we need to address, can the workers take part of the blame ? What’s your experience ?

Reply to Post

30 Comments

[-]

Iamblaine1983@reddit

Yes. You are contracted for a job, with specified working hours, and in the case of engineers almost certainly a salary based on those hours. The almost uniquely American obsession with clocking in early and leaving late with no compensation as standard in the belief that's how you get ahead in your career only benefits the company in the form of reduced Payroll costs. Working above and beyond shouldn't be the norm, working outside you agreed contracted hours without pay should not be the norm, making it the norm is how people burn out or keel over from a heart attack in their 50s. Its not normal

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

To be fair we get 1.5X pay for every hour over our 37 but I get your sentiment. How do we tackle our low productivity and growth then?

[-]

Energia91@reddit

"How do we tackle our low productivity and growth then?" Investing more in R&D, technological innovation, and investing in high-quality talent. Check the number of patents, industrial designs produced per million people in Britain. And compare it to places like the US, China, France, Germany, Japan, and South Korea. I speak from an engineering/manufacturing perspective. I know how UK factories, from small SME's to Rolls-Royce PLC, operate. Nice window dressing from the outside. Poorly managed, outdated, substandard equipment on the inside. Low amounts of qualified engineers/scientist per bean counter and managers (most of them with no technical backgrounds). Compare a BYD factory, with gigacastings, highly automated operations (they have no overhead lights as most of the process is fully automated with robots, often made by BYD themselves), with Jaguar in Castle Bromwitch. PS: I've been to both I don't know about other sectors, but it's probably the same story.

[-]

Iamblaine1983@reddit

And you being paid time and half is still a win for the company who saves on the other half of the salary of a full time employee as well as associated costs like pensions, NI contributions, continuous training etc.

[-]

LaBeefff@reddit

Go take a walk in the woods

[-]

AskUK-ModTeam@reddit

Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people. Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people. AskUK contains a variety of ages, experiences, and backgrounds - consider not everyone is operating on the same level or background as you. Listen to others before you respond, and be courteous when doing so.

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

Yeah fair enough

[-]

Other_Exercise@reddit

Wait until there is a recession. One will quickly see firms trim the fat. The fat generally has a way of floating to the top

[-]

buttersmoker@reddit

Don't know how old you are, but the working portion of your life is a marathon. Long hours and intense work 24/7 won't play out for 45 years in the office. Leaving on time, having hobbies, seeing your family, short bursts of creative and focused work are a recipe for keeping going long term.

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

1000%, but can we have all that with a flatlining economy or worse a recession. I’m not saying that’s the only cause but is there a connection ? I don’t know just asking questions

[-]

buttersmoker@reddit

The alternative to having strategies to keep going, is..well not keeping going! And the economic impacts of that are obviously not positive. I suspect a huge part of the UK's productivity crisis isn't due to technical companies that employ engineers, as you imply yours does.

[-]

IpromithiusI@reddit

When my reward for putting in extra hours and 'always given 110%' is a a string of below inflation pay rises, you can guarantee I'm out that door the second my contract says I finish. You want productive people? Pay them. 20 years of wage stagnation has killed desire to bust balls, because the rewards are not worth it.

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

But how do we pay them more with this flatlining economy

[-]

IpromithiusI@reddit

When the bosses all turned up in brand new Porches this year I wondered the same. I wish I was being hyperbolic, but there were 4 lined up today. Right next to the doors obviously, can't have them walking too far or parking with the peasants.

[-]

polymath_uk@reddit

It's not really important. What's important is if the workforce is productive enough and no it isn't. There are a lot of reasons why.

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

I would love to know why genuinely. Any recommendations on this topic?

[-]

Lisanolan2010@reddit

I lean towards the work to live not live to work model. I earn a decent wage working 9-5. I could earn double if not triple if I knocked a bollock out but I would rather spend my evenings and weekend with my family. My kids are still young and thankfully still like me being around. It'll get to a time I'm sure when they don't want to "hang around with mum and dad" but until then I'll work as little as possible while still keeping a roof over our heads and food in our bellies.

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

Good. I just wonder if we are doing enough to stay competitive on a global scale. I want my country to thrive and for billions to be spent on improving infrastructure of this country and making it better continuously. That’s not really possible without constant economic growth that our country isn’t experiencing

[-]

yuk_foo@reddit

I think it depends on the sector, your role and remuneration. Lower paid workers in role without much chance of progression or wage rises for example. Why should they slave a way for an employer that would replace them in a heartbeat? Working hard doesn’t always equate to a good standard of living now, people are wise to it. Having said that, there are plenty of jobs where you have to do the extra mile, some where it’s almost expected and not doing so you’ll be labelled as a work shy freeloader. I work in cyber security, I often work late, work over my lunches. When I’m not in the clock, I’m learning at the weekend end, setting up labs, trying things to help with work. Many others I know do the same. Should we, probably not, but that’s the world of technology, it’s a constant battle.

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

Fair enough it’s all experiences. In all my jobs people do the opposite and definitely are not working productively for 37 hours a week, more like 20 if I’m being honest

[-]

Monkeyboogaloo@reddit

I think that there are many people who do not put the graft in. People argue that they are paid the minimum wage so they will do the minimum work possible. But even as you go higher up, people still slack off a lot. When planning work for my team I always built it in a 5 hour productive work day, even when they were contracted for 8. So effectively losing 2 work days a week per person. I think phones at work are partially to blame. But also a lot of people simply don't have a good work ethic. There once was a time when this meant the ones who did rose to the top but I think this is no longer the case, which naturally breeds a “why should I bother” attitude. Britain has a productivity problem which goes far wider than people not working hard. Underinvestment into automation, new machinery and technology is a far bigger problem.

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

The “why should I bother” element is hard and is big at the company I work at. It’s just a constant spiral because maybe if people did ‘bother’ more than it would result in company success and pay rise, but also maybe not.

[-]

FidelityBob@reddit

I've taken products for testing. I leave promptly because I have to drive home or the test engineer wants to leave on time. I read stuff on my phone sometimes because there are periods when I have nothing to do as the test house is doing what needs to be done. I'm only there to observe and advise as necessary. Long days are counter productive. Mistakes are made when tied. Why does a job have to be finished in one day? Rest and carry on tomorrow. Takes the same amount of time

[-]

Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

A lot of these companies are VC backed start ups and are under a lot of pressure to get products ready and selling to pay back the money they owe. They’re competing against companies worldwide whose engineers are willing to work harder to get these products out. I don’t entirely disagree with what you’re saying about long hours though

[-]

cagesound@reddit

'But maybe if we worked harder it would boost the productivity of the companies that we work for, which may lead to better outcomes'. Yeah, for the shareholders and the CEO. And it would be considered normal. A lot of firms expect you to do unpaid overtime as standard.

[-]

Natural_Dentist_2888@reddit

I have spent most of my working career in manufacturing and I have never seen anything like that. Productivity in UK manufacturing is currently some of the highest in the world, higher than Germany, South Korea and Japan. The UK and Poland are the best places for value per worker in Europe for manufacturing and it contributes half of our exports for less than 10% of the workforce. What you're seeing is poor management in a service industry. The UK's productivity issues are mostly down to an unproductive public sector, and I say that now working in the public sector, and rent seeking. Capital not being used to invest in industry, as quicker and easier profits can be made by owning property. Tradesmen can knock off any time they like as they're self employed. When you take that risk then you can set the hours you want to work.

[-]

cgknight1@reddit

>so it’s just that the UK has a massive productivity problem You don't seem to understand how productivity is measured so maybe look into that first.

[-]

hrrymcdngh@reddit

You are confusing looking busy with working hard. That tradie finishing at 12 on a Friday probably busted their ass all week.

[-]

Rare_Lunch4727@reddit

The only reward for working hard in this country is more work.

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - When repling to submission/post please **make genuine efforts to answer the question given**. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*