Carvana pulled off the unthinkable this morning

Posted by Neon_Biscuit@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 396 comments

Carvana stock is up over *1,600%* in the past 7 months. The company pulled off the unthinkable this morning: — Reached a deal with noteholders to reduce its total debt by $1.2B — Raising $1B in capital by selling new shares — Reducing annual interest expense by $430M over the next 2 years After a crazy 12 months for the company, it looks like it’s going to make it after all

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396 Comments

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NCSUGrad2012@reddit

So much for that bankruptcy that was going to bring the used car market down. Lol

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admiraltarkin@reddit

I love the "just wait for economic collapse and then I can afford ____" people. If we're in a Great Depression 2.0 it's probably not a good idea to be buying _____

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Crownlol@reddit

Those people are so funny to me. Like, guy, if home prices have dropped by 75% you're going to have bigger problems than getting to buy a house for 2012 prices.

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ruttin_mudders@reddit

I'd take 2019 prices and interest rates that aren't seven fucking percent.

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HyperExtensions@reddit

I'll take 2019 prices with the current ~6% rates any day. The amount the prices have gone up in the last 2-3 years accounts for roughly half the increase in monthly payments. The other half is of course going from ~2.5% -> ~6%. Of course this varies from region to region and the price point but the values account for a significant portion of the increased payment too.

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Jmendez6972@reddit

Interest rates have caused the amount you will pay over the life of a loan to triple. The interest rates are a very important factor. We paid 4.25% interest on a $250K loan in 2014. Our payment was around $1200 a month for the loan and another $500 or so for taxes and insurance. We sold when it was $450k but now that home is worth over $600k & the interest is over 7% so instead of paying $1200 a month you can expect to pay over $4000 a month just in your mortgage not including taxes and insurance. Prices aren’t coming down either because inventory is so low since few are selling. They can’t sell & buy another house because their payments will increase even if they were lucky enough to find a cheaper home. So that equity is not being utilized. The only ones benefitting from the increased property values are the tax collectors. This is going to cause another problem when people begin getting taxed out of their homes & places like BlackRock & Vanguard swoop in & buy their homes for cash.

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Fast-Interview4368@reddit

Yeah but you would have unvaxxed COVID to look forward to.

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Ecks83@reddit

Those people assume that if the economy crashes and prices for cars/houses/electronics/etc plummet that they will somehow be among the lucky few who will still have the same or more income that they do today which is optimistic/naive at best.

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Ibyyriff@reddit

Are you pretending that 100% of people are losing their jobs or their income during a recession? If you have a crappy profession, then ya sure maybe. But if you’ve already been working and are in a competitive field, you’ll do just fine and be happy with the price drop of everything.

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Ecks83@reddit

> Are you pretending that 100% of people are losing their jobs or their income during a recession? No I'm not. That would be ridiculous.

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Ibyyriff@reddit

Ok than I’m tired of hearing people only thinking about recessions as a bad thing, yes there it’s the possibility people can lose their jobs (for the people working very mediocre non essential jobs). But if your haven’t noticed, wages aren’t going up but the prices of everything Is rising to ridiculous levels and I hate to break it to you but companies/corporations will NEVER lower prices unless demand is gone, i.e. a recession. The people who think the prices will come down on their own are sniffing moth balls. We need these smaller recessions as a reset for the economy.

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cavahoos@reddit

Depends on the profession. People who work in healthcare and get paid a yearly salary or daily guaranteed rate are fairly insulated from from economic downturns because demand for the profession doesn’t go down

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tworupeespeople@reddit

yup people will still need to get their eczema and jock itch treated even if the economy is shit. it's not like they can magically learn to live with the pruritis. i love that i get to work in a recession proof industry. in fact recessions work to my families advantage since we can buy up assets at cheaper prices since we tend to have liquid cash at a time when most others don't.

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cavahoos@reddit

Exactly. My specialty is a bit more on the cosmetic side so it does get affected, but that is only if you own your own practice. If you are working under a corp or private equity group, your pay stays the same and job security is secure

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tworupeespeople@reddit

i am a dermatologist so not entirely immune from it like say ortho or paediatrics.

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cavahoos@reddit

I’m in orthodontics, so not quite medical but still healthcare

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MadClothes@reddit

Hopefully I'm in the same boat as a diesel tech. Firetrucks, semis and garbage trucks aren't going anywhere.

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agray20938@reddit

> Firetrucks, semis and garbage trucks aren't going anywhere. By definition, shouldn't they be going somewhere though?

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bravoromeokilo@reddit

Yeah but if they kept being able to go places, my man here wouldn’t have a job

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poweredbyford87@reddit

He means not if he's the one fixing them ...... Just kidding couldn't resist 😁

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faustianBM@reddit

In *my* neighborhood, the firetruck's are always goin' to the Stop n Shop.

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bgarza18@reddit

If anything, demand goes up. More illness, more drunks and overdoses, etc

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jbrochacho@reddit

Mixed effect. Employment based health insurance means layoffs lead to less insured utilizers. Hospitals make less money leading to cost cuts and fewer workers.

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bgarza18@reddit

Yeah many hospitals cut staff during COVID then had to pay travelers 3x-4x the standard wage just to staff the predictable tidal wave of return patients lol.

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jbrochacho@reddit

Not saying it was smart, but it's hard not to be short sighted when it looks like the boat is sinking right now.

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I_Seent_It_Too@reddit

Completely agree. These people also tend to be naturally risk adverse in their spending (nothing wrong with that) so I’m doubtful they’d choose to roll the dice when everything’s falling apart around them

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SubjectToReview@reddit

I don’t think it’s mainly that, I think it’s more that depressions tend to bring economic reform that benefits lower and middle class families. However, I don’t doubt there’s some goblin reveling in someone going homeless just because they can’t afford a home unfortunately.

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fhs@reddit

Assuming even that they get to keep their jobs, but they'll be competing against hundreds more people that also are thinking the same thing

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hutacars@reddit

If that were the case, prices wouldn’t crash to begin with though.

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Princeofmidwest@reddit

Really depends on your profession, some jobs are recession proof.

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Mnm0602@reddit

I’ve been seeing videos circulate on social media about how it’s worse than the Great Depression right now. I think people just are too far removed from those that actually experienced that time to understand have devastatingly bad it was. My Grandmother would essentially yell at us if we left any food on our plates, she’d collect rolls and crackers at restaurants to put in her purse for later and ask for lemons/water/sugar to make her own lemonade at the table. Sardines on crackers was a nice treat. They’d eat every piece of any meat including gristle and cartilage. They basically said they spent their childhood not knowing if they’d get food again after each meal. Inequality is really bad right now and things could always get better but the Great Depression was wayyyyy worse.

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NewEngineerGuy@reddit

Yeah calling the current recession “Great Depression 2.0” is one of the dumber statements I’ve heard about it

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admiraltarkin@reddit

I've been working less than 10 years and this isn't even the worst economy I've personally experienced. People are too far removed from reality

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v-shizzle@reddit

Bruh you drive a "2021 Porsche 911, 2020 Land Rover Defender" - your removed from reality - there is no way you can know the struggles of the 99%.

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admiraltarkin@reddit

The thing is, I know where I'm detached from reality. Don't ask me how much eggs or milk costs. But I do understand that waiting for a recession to lower home prices is not a great plan, as recessions hurt (almost) everyone

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Jmendez6972@reddit

So if you don’t know how much eggs & milk cost then you have no right to claim this isn’t bad. You are not the one affected. Try living off $700 or so a month. Personally I can’t even understand how some are surviving when we spend more then that a month for groceries now. People are literally going without food. It’s back to the cheese and bread lines for a lot of people & many are first timers. So don’t claim this isn’t bad when food insecurity is at its highest since the Great Depression & it’s only getting worse. 30% Hamburger is now a damn luxury for a lot of people.

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v-shizzle@reddit

and my apologies if i came across as extremely rude lol it was just the first thing that came to mind when i saw that awesome tag

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admiraltarkin@reddit

Oh no harm at all. I regularly self-censor my comments when I sound like too much of an entitled ass. I need to get better on it

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DOGO8991@reddit

Can I get a ride in the 911? I’m thinking about a 718 Cayman GT4 RS when I become independently wealthy

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Princeofmidwest@reddit

It's a Porsche not a Pagani.

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DOGO8991@reddit

You can spend a quarter million on a Porsche easily so I wouldn’t go trying to discount it

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IcameforthePie@reddit

Let’s be real here, calling the current economic climate a recession is kind of a dumb statement too.

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AtlantaUtdFan@reddit

Depends on the sector. Some are much worse off than 2008 while a lot are doing better

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DOGO8991@reddit

It’s actually like naive and entitled to an offensive degree. Humans have never had it more comfortable

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the_lamou@reddit

I mean, we're not even in a recession. Other than prices for things jumping suddenly, we have basically never been in a better economy since right after WW2. And even the sudden inflation is actually not nearly as bad as it looks -- prices for everything are only slightly higher than where you would expect them to be based on historical inflation from 1970 to 2019. It *looks* bad, but mainly because we had a decade of well-bellow-normal inflation and then made up for it all at once in the past two and a half years. Hell, for all the talk about younger people being priced out of the housing market, my generation (millennials) just experienced the single largest jump in homeownership of any generation ever, and we went from being about 10% down from where boomers were at our age to only a couple of points under. So it's not even like young people aren't able to afford homes. I think what we're really seeing isn't a drastic shift in affordability (though there *is* a shift) or a marked increase in inequality (though there *is* that, too,) but a dramatic increase in the diversity of voices that get heard in public. Even twenty years ago, if you were in the bottom fifty percent of income earners or otherwise economically or socially marginalized, you were basically invisible. No one heard you, you didn't have any platforms, and the best you could hope for was a reporter walking into your neighborhood diner during an election to ask some inane questions. Now, with the internet, suddenly all these voices are getting amplified and we're hearing about people's problems that have always existed, but since we never heard from them before it all seems like something new that's never happened before.

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HealthySurgeon@reddit

So what are you basing the economy on, all the businesses that are profiting or the American people who on average effectively lost $16,000 in income over the course of 2 years. All while prices have increased making our current dollar worth $.16 less than in 2020. That effectively means that Americans went from earning $70,000 on average in 2020 to $46,000. I’m sorry, but losing $24,000 over the course of 2 years with no current hope for recovering that, that’s pretty shit. That’s for the AVERAGE American, so if you didn’t have that happen to you, then guess what? You’re above average. Congrats, please be humble about it, not everyone is as fortunate. Does all of this qualify for a recession? Not yet, but we will likely see it at the end of this year. Hopefully not, but we’re sliding on over there. We very much barely missed a recession due to the feds raising interest rates. It was a risky move, but it paid off and we got a little breather to try and reevaluate. Idk if we’ll pull it off again. Those guys making those decisions know way more than I do and none of them are confident about our future at the moment. Everyone is hopeful though.

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the_lamou@reddit

This may not be the place for this, so mods feel free to remove, but... >So what are you basing the economy on, all the businesses that are profiting or the American people who on average effectively lost $16,000 in income over the course of 2 years. All while prices have increased making our current dollar worth $.16 less than in 2020. That effectively means that Americans went from earning $70,000 on average in 2020 to $46,000. This is incredibly wrong. In actuality, real median earnings (that is, adjusted for inflation) only went down about a percent and a half between 2022 and 2023, and actually went up between 2020 and 2022. My guess is you're pulling real wages, not realizing that they are already adjusted for inflation, and then trying to adjust them for inflation *again.* And doing the math wrong when you try to do that, because 84% of $70,000 (money being worth 16% less) is $58,800 -- not $46,000. I actually have no idea how you got $46,000, but whatever math you cobbled together there is incorrect, and also completely unnecessary because again, we're talking *real* dollars. Actually, to make it easier, if you look at [this chart here](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Wages_in_the_United_States.webp), you can see that wages increased over the course of the pandemic, and that even despite inflation cutting into some of the gains, the average worker is actually better off now than they were pre-pandemic. Just feel free to browse this [whole wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States). >I’m sorry, but losing $24,000 over the course of 2 years with no current hope for recovering that, that’s pretty shit. It's a great thing that didn't actually happen, then, isn't it? >Does all of this qualify for a recession? No, it doesn't. Not even close, because none of this has anything to do with a recession. "Recession" isn't a synonym for "I don't feel economically secure." >Not yet, but we will likely see it at the end of this year. No, we won't. Not even close. Even the most bearish economists are now talking about *maybe* by the end of 2024. I have my doubts though. In fact, business is actually speeding up. Money is freeing up, a lot of on hold projects are being resumed, and there are absolutely no indications that a recession is anywhere nearby. >We very much barely missed a recession due to the feds raising interest rates. The fed didn't raise rates to stave off a recession. They did it to slow down an overheated economy. Literally the opposite of a recession. We were growing too quickly. >Those guys making those decisions know way more than I do and none of them are confident about our future at the moment. About the risk of a recession? They absolutely are. As of June, JPow was no longer seriously worried about a recession in the short term. Unless something catastrophic happens, we will not be in one through the end of the year. Because, again, almost everyone is better off today than they were two years ago.

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redditmod_soyboy@reddit

...since January 2021: ...cost of living, U.S. Bureau of Labor CPI: +16.9% (rateinflation.com) ...S&P 500 index: +19.5% (Index INX) ...U.S. median household income: +16.4% (seekingalpha) ...U.S. median household income adjusted for inflation: -0.5%

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the_lamou@reddit

Exactly. You can slice the data any way you want to, but the results always come through about the same: things are roughly the same today as they were two years ago, and generally slightly better than before COVID. The economy is good. Hell, the economy is great if you include the unemployment rate which is still at record lows. We're fine. We're all fine. But no one wants to hear that things are fine, because dooming is a hell of a lot more fun.

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HealthySurgeon@reddit

Look I’m no expert. I’ll be the first to admit that. But here it is…. Good catch on the adjustments, but it still doesn’t look great. The difference between adjusted and non-adjusted hasn’t been much for any of the recent years I’ve checked. Here’s the math. (All figures are rounded to the nearest thousand for easy math) Median income in 2020 = 67,000 Median income in 2022 = 54,000 That is a difference of 13,000 The value of the dollar went down about 15% Adjust 54,000 to reflect the lowered value of the dollar. That equals 46000 The difference between 67,000 and 46,000 equals 21,000 That’s single earner income non-adjusted for inflation in the US in years 2020 and 2022, not household as I can’t find official 2022 numbers for that. Official census reports don’t come out till September for 2022, but the justice department published the 54,000 number for 2022 and I used that to find the equivalent data in 2020. Everything else you say is literally the more hopeful people’s opinions on everything I’ve listened to. Opinions vary and you’re completely wrong saying none of the experts are predicting end of 2023 right now. It’s looking less and less likely right now, but it can always take a turn for the worse. It wasn’t until last month that some experts changed their tune and that will keep happening every month. It seems like your trying to make me out to say we’re in a recession right now and we’re absolutely going into one at the end of 2023. I highlighted the dramatic issue with the situation with real world numbers that people can relate to. You absolutely pointed out some inaccuracies in what I said, and I appreciate that, but you’re gonna have to do some of your own research with real facts and not opinions in order to share your opinion more clearly. My opinion is clear, this sucks, it’s better than it could’ve been, we’re on an somewhat upward trajectory, but it can fall at any moment and is still predicted to fall in the coming years. This is simply based off of data and rumor. I could be COMPLETELY wrong. Everybody wants to fight it, but society in general is a revolving door. Nobody can predict the exact circumstances that will happen, but the time for the world to kill everything off is coming and there’s evidence to show that this is the same thing that happens every time society gets this way. There’s lots of books from philosophers that have examined and predicted these cycles and they’ve been proven correct over 3-4 large cycles now. It’s hard to go back further due to the lack of historical record. No, I don’t remember any of them off the top of my head but you can probably google the cycle of humanity or something and look for something that talks about the 4 stages of society that usually cycle in and out with the generations. My personal prediction is that we will still see the cycle but it will look differently than anytime before due to technology. The last cycle could span multiple generations or it could happen like it has for centuries before. I just think it’ll be different. No saying how though.

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the_lamou@reddit

>Good catch on the adjustments, but it still doesn’t look great. The difference between adjusted and non-adjusted hasn’t been much for any of the recent years I’ve checked. > >Here’s the math. > >(All figures are rounded to the nearest thousand for easy math) > >Median income in 2020 = 67,000 Median income in 2022 = 54,000 That is a difference of 13,000 > >The value of the dollar went down about 15% > >Adjust 54,000 to reflect the lowered value of the dollar. > >That equals 46000 Your numbers for median income are incorrect, as I can't find a single source that matches them. And again, you're adjusting the numbers that are already adjusted for inflation. You don't need to double-adjust like that, as it is incorrect and artificially doubles the inflation rate. Again, I linked you to all the charts you need. >It wasn’t until last month that some experts changed their tune and that will keep happening every month. No, most of the experts have been saying a recession this year is highly unlikely since really Q4 of last year. They just don't get the breathless news headlines because no one wants to read stories that are basically "Everything is more or less ok, and will probably stay that way for the foreseeable future." The volume (noise level) of news coverage doesn't reflect the volume (total number) of expert opinions. Look, I get what you're saying. It feels scary and uncertain out there. And I know that absolutely nothing I say will actually change your mind, because once a perception like that has set it is virtually unchangeable externally. But, and I say this with absolutely no disrespect, you clearly are not very familiar with some of these concepts and are cobbling together a unified economic world theory out of half-heard reports and unfamiliar concepts you're defining entirely through context. Which is how most people understand the economy, so again no disrespect intended -- it's a complex topic with a lot to absorb and most people don't have the time. I *do* have the time, because it's one of the things I'm paid to understand very well. While we were having this little back and forth, I was also intermittently working on a 3,000-odd word memo to customers on behalf of a top-5 US bank specifically dealing with the possibility of recession, the broader economy, and how this will impact car buyers. I actually just sent the draft to my editor for review before starting this response. And the tl;dr is that the bulk of available data indicates that things are actually much better than most people think they are. Households are making more money than before the pandemic, inflation is down to a manageable level (basically right within the Fed's target range, or close to,) and crisis signs have receded significantly since this time last year. I can't speak to your apocalyptic vision of the future, as I'm not a fortune teller and would rather not venture a guess. But I can speak to the economy -- it's good. Not just for companies, but for regular people.

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ttoma93@reddit

Even better: *there is not a current recession*. The economy has not been in recession for years! We had a brief one in early/mid 2020 due to the Covid shock, but it rebounded shockingly quickly from that, and has been out of recession for 3 years now.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

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PaulTheMerc@reddit

recession? What recession? -Government.

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I8ASaleen@reddit

We changed the definition of recession, pray we do not alter it further

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Yorgonemarsonb@reddit

Are they claiming it’s here now or that something worse is coming when more banks who bought too many bonds inevitably collapse?

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Mnm0602@reddit

There’s a video circulating ok TT about how median income was $90k (inflation adjusted) during the Great Depression thus almost 2x today because they don’t know how to understand tax statistics from the 30s.

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ahtoxa1183@reddit

Yeah, man. I was born in Soviet Union in early 80s and I remember what the economy was like right before the collapse in '91. What we have today is not good, but it's nothing like that or the Great Depression.

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Soggy_Head_4889@reddit

My dad grew up in Czechoslovakia and loved to remind me growing up how much better off I was growing up in the US.

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HealthySurgeon@reddit

What if you’re the one sheltered from the current recession? What you describe is EXACTLY how a lot of people live and have been forced into living due to how everything has turned out since Covid. If you live in more populated areas, it’s a lot more obvious. The more rural areas tend to be more sheltered from it until natural disaster strikes. Awareness certainly varies even within states though. But also to be clear, I do think it’s an exaggeration to call this Great Depression 2.0, but we are on the edge of something similar, still, but it’s been getting better. The feds really pulled one out of their ass here, but the fight isn’t done yet, we still need to keep acting if we’re to keep this country from entering another Depression.

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Interesting-Gear-342@reddit

“Inequality is really bad right now” Huhh??

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OtherSideofSky@reddit

Don’t worry about _____, let me worry about ______.

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MurderBalladz@reddit

Hah. Futurama.

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Smegma-Santorum@reddit

BLANK? BLANK?

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Steely-Dave@reddit

Awesome. Awesome to the max.

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taedartaught@reddit

My only regret... is that i have.. boneitis

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future_web_dev@reddit

Completely forgot about this awesome-to-the-max phrase. Gonna start using it unironically.

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xXbrosoxXx@reddit

My only regret... Is that I have.. Boneitus..

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vegas84@reddit

That’s a weird name for a horrible disease…

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Quarkchild@reddit

No thanks. I make my own. 😏

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the_lamou@reddit

Once again, the conservative sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

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Globalist2@reddit

Suddenly I have an opinion about the capital gains tax!

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tobias_tyler@reddit

"You worry about those fighters, I'LL worry about the tower!"

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Quarkchild@reddit

God I love that episode.

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SCClemson@reddit

Well yeah, what is a first time home buyer supposed to do? Rent going up every year, intrest rates rising, home prices have gone gangbusters the past 4-5 years, seriously what is a first time homebuyer gonna buy? Even a fucking townhome is expensive as fuck these days. I'm at the point where I'll go buy a mobile home on some land and in 10 years when we have enough to build I'll build a house on the land.

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admiraltarkin@reddit

I get it. I was born at just the right time to not have my career impacted by the great recession, while being able to take advantage of rock bottom interest rates and one of the best stock market runs ever without getting off track by COVID.

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JaSkynyrd@reddit

Curious how old you are. I'm 38 and feel like you've described my situation pretty closely.

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Defiant_Pay_1765@reddit

38 and same - bought in 2012. My friends who held off buying now can't buy and rent is near double my mortgage

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admiraltarkin@reddit

I'm a bit younger than you, 30. I started working in 2015, so I feel like it was far enough out from 2008-2009 that things had legitimately improved to the point where I wasn't taking a "discount" by virtue of my birth year.

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landofthestupid@reddit

How tf does a 30 year old afford those cars?

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JaSkynyrd@reddit

Cool. Looking back I think I probably could have been "derailed" due to my age, but on the contrary we were able to buy a foreclosure in a neighborhood that even 10 years ago I would be priced out of. The equity we have in that house has opened up doors for us that I didn't think was possible. Like the amount we paid is just one year of my current salary (to be fair it was four times my salary at time of purchase), but is now worth four times that, and we've been able to purchase/pay off other properties using that equity at a crazy low interest rate when we refinanced in 2021 at 2.6%.

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admiraltarkin@reddit

That's awesome! Getting into a home early unlocks so many doors. The fact that many people have been priced out is sad. Though, I would suggest people get creative about where they decide to live, as the less desirable neighborhoods are more affordable but rapidly improving in some cases (yes, I'm talking about gentrification)

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JaSkynyrd@reddit

Absolutely, it's a bit heartbreaking to see younger people be priced out. Our second home we actually lived in for a a few years was bought in 2014 in an area that was not yet desirable but jjjjuuust on the edge. Fast forward nine years and again, there's now way I could afford to buy it now, but our renter who lives there nearly pays our whole mortgage on our first home even after taking out enough equity to pay off our second home and put a 20% down payment on our vacation home we bought last year. Can't even believe I get type that sentence truthfully. On another topic, tell me about how a 30 year old can afford a 911 and a Defender? I have no business being able to own three homes so I have no room to talk, but how'd you pull off owning those at a young age?

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admiraltarkin@reddit

> our renter who lives there nearly pays our whole mortgage on our first home even after taking out enough equity to pay off our second home and put a 20% down payment on our vacation home we bought last year So amazing to hear man, American dream no joke. As for me, my wife and I have been fortunate in jobs. We're in Management Consulting which has pretty aggressive wage growth. Our household income has averaged 17% per year growth since we got married 7 years ago. I come from an upper middle class family, so nothing too crazy; but she came from a super poor family. Going from not being able to afford air conditioning in the Texas summer and never going on vacation growing up to making more than 85% of households just on her own is incredible to me

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JaSkynyrd@reddit

I said wow out loud after reading your last paragraph. I'd be interested to know what percentage of Americans are able successfully have that kind of growth. Got to be less than 1%.

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admiraltarkin@reddit

I read a study from the OECD that said that an average American with an ancestor born into the lowest income decile takes 4 generations to move to the country's mean income level. Denmark fared the best at 2, while Colombia was an astonishing 11 generations. So much of our lives are determined (or at least influenced) by the income class in which we are born. I had tutors when I needed help in school, my wife had to work. Yeah, we both have college degrees from the same university, but who is really the more impressive one?

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thecommuteguy@reddit

Have you looked at prefab/modular housing? Many companies have some nice designs and are relatively affordable.

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SCClemson@reddit

yeah, it's between a trailer or a modular. But that all depends on how my new job shakes out in central Florida. After a year they put you in management at another location that potentially could be anywhere in the country, if it's in the west coast, Midwest or the northeast I'll never buy a house and move jobs back down south in 3-5 years if it's in central Florida or the parts of the south I've got family in I'll find land and go that route. Prefab/modular is more affordable than a traditional build but still more expensive than a trailer, I'm all about location, if I can find me 10-20 acres out in the rural parts of the south, and I know that trailer is only gonna be home for 10-15 years while we save to build at the most I'd rather do that than buy a more expensive prefab just to turn around and build. Hell I'm even tempted to build a pole barn style house.

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HyperExtensions@reddit

It's not even the past 4-5 years, it's more like the past 2 years. Even 2020 wasn't bad when it came to real estate prices but not long after that is when things started to go nuts.

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DOGO8991@reddit

Townhouses near me were 255 when I bought and have appreciated to listing at 305 inside of 7 months

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future_web_dev@reddit

Rent in my area is 50% cheaper than a mortgage. Yet people still tell me that I could save money buy purchasing a house.

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JackShepardJohnLocke@reddit

I can’t wait to sell my house, no more $7-8k in property taxes and federal required flood plain insurance for $1400 plus all the anexity of what’s going to break or need repair next, it’s like I live on time bomb.

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branwes2622@reddit

Not sure where you live, but if it's near me, good luck buying land. These motherfuckers come straight to the market knowing the only people who have the capital to pay the asking price are subdivision contractors who will buy it in a New York minute.

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EVporsche@reddit

in my area, rent is down 15% compared to what it was 3 months ago. granted this is luxury buildings, so the rent went up massively over the last few years, but it still shows that the trend is down. First luxury apartments drop in price, then that pushes the prices downward on the non-luxury units.

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landofthestupid@reddit

27, will probably never be able to afford a home

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Journier@reddit

thats a you problem, everyone that locked in from 2015-2022 say nah bro im staying here 4 lyfe. lol

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RN93Nam@reddit

This. Been completed fucked for the majority of our adulthoods.

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DoctFaustus@reddit

A kid I grew up with rents his wife's childhood home from her parents. He's been there for at least fifteen years, raising his own kids. He has been completely obsessed with the housing market that entire time. Talks about all the reasons he shouldn't buy right now. Had he dove in fifteen years ago with nothing down in that subprime mortgage boom, he'd be sitting on a ton of equity. Instead he listens to Dave Ramsey and will be ready to buy his home sometime after his grandkids start thinking about it too.

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admiraltarkin@reddit

Exactly. That's why deflation is so dangerous, if people keep thinking prices will come down, why buy today? It paralyzes markets

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DOGO8991@reddit

Lol at prices coming down. If (when) rates drop again, there will be an absurd amount of demand sitting on the sidelines that all swoop in simultaneously. It’ll still be a knife fight

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DOGO8991@reddit

SMH 🤦‍♂️ General rule is buy now or regret it later and I swear it tends to be true more often than not

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beamdriver@reddit

I bought my house in 2010. I took advantage of a drop in housing prices due to the 2008 bubble pop, but I still lost some money initially because the market hadn't completely bottomed out yet. 13 years later and my house is worth half again what I paid for it. I'm glad I didn't buy in 2006/2007 at the top of the market, but even if I had I'd be in a decent place now.

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drunkin_rabbi86@reddit

Ha. I bought in 2012, 1000sq ft bungalow in Ontario Canada for 250k It’s now worth 900k. Canada is fucked.

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ScipioAfricanvs@reddit

These people weren't working adults during the Great Recession. It's funny/sad to see.

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Bovine_Joni_Himself@reddit

I don't think that people who wish for the great recession 2.0 realize that they would likely be out of a job and wouldn't be able to take advantage of the crashing prices. Hell, the only people who realistically could are people who can already afford the things they want. It's like they just looked at historical pricing trends and stopped there.

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gearabuser@reddit

I'll take my chances, where's my depression at??

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4score-7@reddit

No, they weren’t. Your correct. They may even be children now, literally or figuratively. Hard to tell on an anonymous website. But, I’ll tell you this. I was an adult during that time. I bought a home and cars and all that in time leading up to the crash. Had babies. All the fun stuff. And it was agonizing watching people sell or go into foreclosure on their assets, and I had to sit my ass in the same house and same cars, no matter what, for the better part of a decade, to ride it all out. And then, in the span of 2021 and 2022, we just jacked the price of literally everything to the moon. Last time that happened was just before a major rug pull. I think I’ll take a break from it all for a while.

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EmBen0776@reddit

Anyone who pays even a tiny bit of attention to the macros right now I think will agree with you. The similarities are too great to ignore. And, we now have a full on conflict thrown in that is just simmering below the boiling point of turning into a global conflict. I honestly think that if "they" cant achieve their "soft landing" there will be a sudden flip to full blown conflict in order to juice the economy, distract the populace and rip apart enough infrastructure that "they" can rebuild with their new agendas as the framework. Long story short, its going to get messy. The conflict in Europe and the tension with China isnt going anywhere anytime soon. Thats before even taking into account the population tangent that basically dictates if China or Russia wants to dig in at all, now is the only time they have to do it.

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wutanglan89@reddit

While I agree with this mostly, people have been saying "RECESSION IMMINENT" for well over a decade now.

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I_like_cake_7@reddit

Totally. I remember hearing back in 2017 that a recession was imminent.

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Lauzz91@reddit

On a per capita basis many countries have been in a recession for years

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I_like_cake_7@reddit

Sure, but for years some people have been acting like we’re all going to die next week because the stock market is going to crash, and they always say it will be worse than 2008. I’m still waiting.

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vault76boy@reddit

The average income buys less now than the average income did during the Great Depression. The recession has already begun

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JJMcGee83@reddit

Which considering part of what causes a recession is people reducing their spending because of the believe that there is a recession coming eventually there might be.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

Policy [discussion is welcome](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/politics). However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Montreal4life@reddit

imperialism, baby! Stonks amirite?!

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Dsarg_92@reddit

Eh I was a teenager during the last recession in '08.

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Link_GR@reddit

People forget that the reason prices were so low in '08-'10 was because everyone was out of a job and couldn't afford anything and a lot of people were defaulting on their mortgages.

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OkayTryAgain@reddit

Prices were low because you were able to get a mortgage by breathing and *that's* why everything collapsed. Even with the ridiculous housing prices, the quality of borrower is insanely high compared the ones written from 2002-2007. When I say getting a mortgage by breathing, I literally mean it. Look up "NINJA Loans". They were loans granted by showing "no income, no job and no assets". Absolutely insane.

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loscornballs@reddit

Seriously, an economic collapse generally does not mean things are going well for most people. Thinking about what car you can buy when the zero sum game hurts someone else is probably not the best outlook to have. [obligatory Big Short clip - for every 1% unemployment goes up, 40,000 people die](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chWCcec_gzg&t=40s&ab_channel=TradersArcade)

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JWGhetto@reddit

The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid

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BlazinAzn38@reddit

“If a Great Depression happens you won’t have money to afford ____ anyways”

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jontss@reddit

I realized this won't work only because all my money is now invested so if everything crashes so does my money.

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Drenlin@reddit

I imagine a lot of them are government employees or the like. I'm military, for example. My job isn't going anywhere and I'm not getting a pay cut without a heavily unpopular act of congress. While I have no desire to see the markets crash, I'd personally be in a pretty good spot financially.

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RetroRiboflavin@reddit

It’s a bitter realization that you missed the boat.

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Noopy9@reddit

He’s got a new 911 and defender. I don’t think he missed the boat.

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RetroRiboflavin@reddit

I mean yeah lol, I’m talking about the same people he is, the ones hoping for a massive real estate/ stocks crash so they can hop in before a massive run up this time around.

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OoIIoO@reddit

We're going to need a bigger boat

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jameson71@reddit

We are going to need the top 0.01% to stop hogging 90% of the boat.

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ChickenChaser5@reddit

But bro, any day now they are going to use that majority of the boat to fix everything else. They just need 92% of the boat and they can do it!

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-AbeFroman@reddit

People love to believe that a severe economic downturn would somehow affect everyone *besides them*.

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Much_Writing_7575@reddit

*3.0

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RacerM53@reddit

>Great Depression 2.0 The big sad

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randomman87@reddit

Bankruptcy is so 2020. In 2023 we just misrepresent our profitability until our investors run out of money.

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NoStatistician990@reddit

Not to worry they still have a bunch of class actions to get through for not issuing titles, odometer tampering, etc in multiple states. Pretty sure they're still banned by the secretary of state in some states over the whole destroying titles and falsified documents. Should get interesting lol

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ScipioAfricanvs@reddit

Which was always hilarious because Carvana doesn’t and didn’t have near enough inventory for it to really change the used car market if it’s cars we’re all sold off.

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PedanticBoutBaseball@reddit

No, but they are a large enough BUYER in the space that if they folded, people couldn't justify pricing their used cars so high because "well, if you dont want to give me X dollars, ill just sell it to carvana for the same amount". By extension, they're also artificially shrinking the number of reasonably priced used cars on the market by over paying for inventory because of their unique access to venture capital that people and dealers do not. This subsequently helps to shape the market because those overpays are marked up EVEN MORE to ensure profitability—or at least to dampen the loss. Add-in that they're more convenient to deal with and notoriously DO NOT properly inspect cars before they take them off your hands, it DEFINITELY creates a market-warping scenario—especially for the mid-to-low end used cars. Someone who wanted a $10K 1/2 owner used car cant really now, so they're willing to either overpay or step down to the range of what used to be beaters or 3/4 owner cars. This creates more demand and makes those beaters more expensive.

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CreatedUsername1@reddit

>Add-in that they're more convenient to deal with and notoriously DO NOT properly inspect cars before they take them off your hands My gf bought 2 mini Coopers from them, first one didn't have an oil change done ever. 2nd one had a muffler delete in which she oddly appreciated.

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knightblue4@reddit

> mini Coopers I'm sorry.

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CreatedUsername1@reddit

?

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SignalSatisfaction90@reddit

The users on this sub sure do hate a lot of cars, for a place named "r/cars"

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CreatedUsername1@reddit

Guess so I didn't even mention his torque dip.

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SignalSatisfaction90@reddit

Ask him if he got chips with it 😂

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CreatedUsername1@reddit

/u/knightblue4 So you got any dips?

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Defensivetackle88@reddit

Figuratively speaking, Carvana is hurting the “middle-class” buyer by buying out the newly used affordable car from the desirable seller.

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Dnlx5@reddit

So Carvana is a vehicle for investment in the utility value left in partially used cars previously only realized by middle class individuals.

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Defensivetackle88@reddit

Covid changed everything. Buying power is less. No pre Covid deal remains.

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thecommuteguy@reddit

Likely prolonging the inevitable.

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AtlantaUtdFan@reddit

They held like 1% of all used cars, it was never going to collapse the market anyway

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TigerUppercut08@reddit

Too big to fail 2.0

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mishap1@reddit

In this case, too big for their creditors. Not a gov't bailout.

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hippymule@reddit

The great part about modern late stage capitalism, is the consumer always loses. I'm just used to my daily pineapple up the ass at this point. The only thing that can save the automotive market is if manufacturers can sell direct to dealers, interest rates get locked at lower levels, and wages go up 20-30k across the board. Sadly, none of that will happen, so I'll continue to read posts on here about people buying their dream Porsches that sound like fanfiction to me.

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412gage@reddit

How do you suppose direct to consumer will make it better for consumers?

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Inflatable_Lazarus@reddit

Well, their huge debt didn’t go away, they just deferred/restructured it and moved from insecure to secure notes. The possibly bad side of that is that it’s a short-term solution that actually increases what they owe in interest and exposes other parts of the market (some of those now-secured sources are backed by real-estate assets) to problems if they finally go down. The bottom line is they still have a lot of debt, but that debt just got extended and now is going to cost them more. Currently all the above, combined with them still paying a lot to acquire inventory while used car prices are beginning to drop and interest rates are still higher, may just defer the inevitable and make it a bigger shitshow if they do fail.

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Quake_Guy@reddit

LoL, if you have 1.2 billion in debt, it's not your problem. It's the note holders problem. The genius of having no marketable assets. I guess calling the note and ending up with glass parking towers in suburbia was less attractive.

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i_use_this_for_work@reddit

That’s why they swapped their unsecured debt for first lien secured debt

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DaBaTaKa@reddit

We’re smooth brains and don’t know what you are talking about

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ABobby077@reddit

as well as a lot of used cars that would have had to be dumped on the auction block causing the rest of their market to be worth less, too

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ScipioAfricanvs@reddit

Over $6k per unit profit is impressive. Seems the talk of its demise was very premature. Don’t tell /r/askcarsales

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walmarttshirt@reddit

Considering that blockbuster went bankrupt with over $6,000 of late fees on every rental, carvana isn’t completely safe.

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Yotsubato@reddit

Blockbuster is what used car dealers are to Carvana

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Micosilver@reddit

So we are celebrating a corporation ripping an average customer to the tune of $6K, and your first instinct is to dunk on car dealers?

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Specific-Gain5710@reddit

You do realize the average markup at a dealership is ~ 12%, versus a furniture store is 20-50% or jeweler who has a 250-500% mark up?

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Sir_Sir_ExcuseMe_Sir@reddit

12% markup is a lot, especially on such a high priced good. You picked ridiculous comparisons

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AtlantaUtdFan@reddit

It really isn’t. You’ve never seen the books of any company because most have very thin margins.

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Sir_Sir_ExcuseMe_Sir@reddit

That's what I'm saying. 12% is a lot. Your average restaurant is making like 4%.

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TobysGrundlee@reddit

Yeah, 12% unless they think the potential buyer is ignorant of the process. Then they won't hesitate to jack that up as far as they can get away with going.

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CuriousTravlr@reddit

The consumer doesn’t see that because they see the convenience being worth it.

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Micosilver@reddit

OK, explain to me what 6k in profit means, because to me it means that either buyers or sellers, or both are being fucked, how else can you have 6k AVERAGE profit, when your AVERAGE sale price is $23K (in 2021)? According to my math, that's 26% profit. If an article was posted here saying that car dealers were making 26% profit - people would be firebombing them, but when it's Carvana - let's celebrate! Same attitude as elon worshippers...

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CuriousTravlr@reddit

Okay……do you know remotely know how dealer auctions work? You’re Carvana, you go to the car auction and buy a 2018 Honda Civic EX-T Sedan. It has a fair market average price of $20k. At the Auction, you buy the car for $12k. You sell it between $19-20k. After to the fees you’ve paid on the auction + transport to the closest Carvana (they are built close to auction sites to lower transport fees), you just made $6k profit.

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Micosilver@reddit

Thanks for the free condescension and for the great imaginary scenario that is so realistic (see? I can be condescending too!) If you remotely knew anything about the reality of dealer auctions these days - you'd know that nobody makes that money on auction cars.

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CuriousTravlr@reddit

Do you have your dealer license? Do you go to the auctions? Auctions are still dealers #1 profit driver, especially now since leasing agencies like Ally aren’t allowing their dealers to purchase lease trade-ins and are sending them all directly to auction.

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Micosilver@reddit

I was a GSM at a franchise dealer. Auctions are the worst source of cars.

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CuriousTravlr@reddit

Have you ever been in the purchasing side of things? 5 years ago you were right but with more financial institutions not allowing dealers to purchase lease trade in’s and instead sending them directly to auction, the climate and market has changed accordingly.

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6158675309@reddit

I generally agree with you overall sentiment but… This $6k number ($6,520) is a gross profit number so there is some accounting/financial engineering going on. It’s not a net profit number, caravana is still not profitable, they are losing less money though. I am not familiar with the specifics of the Carvana calculation but it likely includes inventory adjustments, loan loss adjustments, etc. it’s not a simple difference of what they sell a given car vs what they paid someone for a trade in. It is supposed to more or less signal that though. It’s one metric of the health of the overall business model execution. That 26% is a gross profit margin, still a lot of things to be paid to get to a net number and in Carvana’s case after taking those other things out they lose money. I get what you are saying but Carvana’s business model is to buy cars for as cheap as they can - despite evidence of them overpaying - and sell them for as much as they can. I don’t care at all for the attempt at consolidating used car sales - removing competition, which is their game. But, they currently aren’t making any money doing that. There are firms with deep pockets though betting they will ultimately be successful. That’s why those firms agreed to change the terms of those debt deals.

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OtherSideofSky@reddit

Anytime I see someone get this worked up on Reddit about the stupidest shit I like to suggest taking a deep breath, take an Imodium, and go take a nice shit. It’ll be ok dude.

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DaggumTarHeels@reddit

$6K in profit doesn't mean they're charging $6K over a reasonable price. It means their acquisition and delivery costs combine to $6K less than the sale price. You think dealers are losing money on sales? The prices I see on their website are maybe $1-2K over what dealers are posting. Except you don't have to deal with dealer BS. They include total purchase price in the pricing details. Depending on your dealer, that price gap can quickly close.

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Micosilver@reddit

Oh, OK, so the difference is that they are fucking over sellers instead of buyers, and that is somehow different/better, am I reading this correctly?

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Algernon8@reddit

Sellers are more than welcome to sell privately to someone else if they choose. I don't really see how Carvana is being dishonest here. They're pretty straight forward and clear in what they're offering and basically make it as easy as possible for someone trying to sell their car.

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clickstops@reddit

People learn about how businesses make profit for convenience and go crazy. Not defending Carvana as some bastion of capitalist hope. But it’s funny to see people wrap their heads around it.

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TobysGrundlee@reddit

Fuck car dealers. Defintely the worst of 2 evils. They can burn in a bonfire.

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the_house_from_up@reddit

If Carvana and Carmax both had identical cars, except Carvana was advertising at $40,000, and Carmax was advertising at $36,000, people would go to Carmax. Companies exist to make money and turn a profit. Carvana is just doing a better job at margins. If they were ripping people off, people would go to places that have more reasonable prices.

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CHADWARDENPRODUCTION@reddit

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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AidofGator@reddit

Not op, but in person car sales seem to want to make >10k off of me every transaction. It has been super useful to negotiate using my Carvana offers.

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ScipioAfricanvs@reddit

It’s like rooting for Zuck over Elon dude.

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clickstops@reddit

When an unethical business model gets beat up by another unethical business model, it is somewhat dunk-worthy. They’re all slime.

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Specific-Gain5710@reddit

Carmax has been around for 25ish years and they haven’t completely disrupted the auto market. IMO, we were all surprised the investors still had faith in a company where the co founder cashed out nearly all his stock to the tune of something like 2 billion dollars weeks before the stock crashed. And that they are willing to do business with a company who has a history of not producing titles to vehicles they sold.

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Guitars-Not-Bombs@reddit

Carmax, IIRC, was also not founded by literal thieves.

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Cramer12@reddit

Ehh there is actually a theory about Carmax being the child of money laundering. The theory goes Circuit City was a money laundering scheme, based on the “anti consumer” floor and shelf plans around stores, not having second tier real estate, and selling old and antiquated TVs, washing machines and vacuums.

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Guitars-Not-Bombs@reddit

As someone who's old enough to have wandered around a CC, I don't deny that.

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Cramer12@reddit

One of us! One of us!

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Specific-Gain5710@reddit

I remember those days. A circuit city near where I grew up came full circle and turned into a dealership - not carmax though

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Guitars-Not-Bombs@reddit

It's more likely half of it has turned into a vape shop these days.

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i_use_this_for_work@reddit

It’s fugazi- Non-GAAP, adjusted ebidta bullshit. Nobody is maintaining 6k+ pvr on used cars - they wrote down inventory and are over counting future finance reserve payments

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NaBUru38@reddit

I don't know much about accounting, but yes this looks suspiciously creative.

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i_use_this_for_work@reddit

Unsecured debt vs secured debt. Secured debt has bigger value, especially if you see the company failing. It provides an avenue to get first in line for the best assets. With the unsecured debt, if the company fails, they get nothing.

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gsasquatch@reddit

They had a reputation for paying unreasonably high prices to buy cars from people. There are a lot of competitors that don't seem like they are getting $6k per unit, or wouldn't mind getting less. $6k per unit is dubious. There are class action suits against them for not transferring titles in 2 or 3 states. That throws some shade on their ethics. It doesn't make sense that they should hold on to titles, unless they were trying to game their numbers. It might be that their profit is not what they say it is. This might be turning into an investment scam.

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tarheel343@reddit

This is why I don’t make my own investment decisions. Carvana is the absolute last company I would have bought stock in last year.

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critical_suspect1@reddit

That's why you buy VTI and chill

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beholdthemoldman@reddit

no 1200% return there

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PanzerPeach@reddit

try powerball, you’ll get percentage returns on the order of millions

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beholdthemoldman@reddit

This will shock you but the stock market offers better odds than the powerball despite what the financial education industrial complex tells you about index funds

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Tiafves@reddit

Yes but time travelers that know that'll happen don't need to ask for stock advice.

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critical_suspect1@reddit

Much higher returns in the long run, though. And much lower volatility too.

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Dudebro5812@reddit

Dang I’d love a Volkswagen VTI

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crystalmethodist2025@reddit

VOO + QQQM + BRKB trifecta here.

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whiterock001@reddit

I’ve worked in the asset management industry for nearly 20 years, and though it’s a lucrative field of work, I couldn’t agree with your investment strategy any more.

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Big-Shtick@reddit

I only invest in index funds now. I bought one share of Google before the 20-to-1 stock split, and that's probably the best decision I made. Other than that, I bought Rivian and Lucid at the worst possible time, and also hold AMC and GME. I'm not smart enough to think I can game the system lmao

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

I throw mine in index funds and let it sit. Yea, it'll take hits every now and then, but I'm averaging ~10% return, so good enough.

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NaBUru38@reddit

Index funds are safe investments, bt encourgage oligopolies. The big investment firms own big shares of all big corporations. So why compete with each other, if rivals have the same owners?

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AtlantaUtdFan@reddit

It’s not like investing in individual securities has led to a free market utopia. Parking it all in a vanguard fund is still the best advice for almost everyone.

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Khal_Kitty@reddit

This is the way.

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Akatsuki_Accountant@reddit

Ideally you should be making your own decisions because you invest in a sector/industry that you are familiar with. Granted I would never put any money into auto-companies. Tech, and defense stocks are the move right now 🔥

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strongmanass@reddit

> Ideally you should be making your own decisions because you invest in a sector/industry that you are familiar with. That's dangerous advice. Not even professional fund managers consistently beat the market and no one's more familiar than they are.

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RollingNightSky@reddit

So you're saying nobody should really be investing with their own decisions, they should hire an investment professional to help them? Have the professionals ever made big mistakes? What's the point of the investment apps people use if they're all making big mistakes? Also I hope those professionals are very good. Some big companies had trust in Ftx and invested but they clearly didn't know what they were getting into!

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V12MPG@reddit

He’s not talking about managing your own account vs hiring someone to do it. He’s talking about the peril of picking individual stocks instead of diversified funds because you think e.g., “I know a lot about building PCs so that’s why I invested in NVDA and the fact I made a bunch of money is a sign of my own genius.” Your link seems to be in agreement.

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V12MPG@reddit

No but see I’ve watched a lot of YouTube so I know things the professionals don’t. They have day jobs that keep them busy doing god knows what but I sit around all day reading tweets about AI and the blockchain. I am going to be driving a BMW in no time.

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beholdthemoldman@reddit

idk thousands of faang millionaires from the last decade whove been vesting company stock

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V12MPG@reddit

What do you want them to do? Decline it? Those companies aren’t going to give you shares of anything else (excluding 401k matching I guess). Generally though holding a large amount of your net worth in shares of your employer longer than necessary would be advised against. The fact that it has worked out well for many people doesn’t change that. It has also worked out terribly for people when their company has been hit hard and they lose their job and life savings the same day.

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beholdthemoldman@reddit

>What do you want them to do? Decline it? youre right, sorry. my point wasnt clear. effectively they are investing in something they presumably understood well and were rewarded for it  >It has also worked out terribly for people when their company has been hit hard and they lose their job and the bulk of their life savings the same day. Thats true

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ThroJSimpson@reddit

Same here, except I smoke weed so I invest in weed stocks. Future multimillionaire is on my résumé.

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NaBUru38@reddit

People who actually know to beat the market don't brag about it.

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Beachdaddybravo@reddit

And even the ones that actually do are just lucky. There are precious few exceptions who are capable of beating the market because they’re clever. I can think of one fund manager off the top of my head and they stopped taking in outside money in 1993.

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tarheel343@reddit

I’ll stick to low risk ETFs and bonds. I’m not touching the money for decades anyway. The standard growth of the market is more than enough for me.

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DOGO8991@reddit

It can suck feeling like you missed an easy/great trade, but S+P for the win

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HellCrownCult@reddit

Just because they're not going into bankruptcy doesn't mean they're a good company.

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beholdthemoldman@reddit

wow lots of haters in this thread

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Princeofmidwest@reddit

And you would be right, that was an absolute fluke.

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63Boiler@reddit

Showcases the peaks and troughs of individual securities. Yes it's up massively since December '22. But if you'd bought in August '22 you'd barely be breaking even.

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tightcall@reddit

that guy's on wsb who bought 180k worth of calls is one fine lad, 2.5 million in the pocket.

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Scottyknuckle@reddit

>strong resolve You mean 💎🙌💎🙌DIAMOND HANDS💎🙌💎🙌?

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FordFiestaST180@reddit

Shhh... don't say stuff like that, you might get their attention

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63Boiler@reddit

STONKS

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briballdo@reddit

And if you bought in August of 2021 you'd only be down 85% now!

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chucchinchilla@reddit

When in doubt, zoom out. Definitely puts this pump in perspective.

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JSKindaGuy@reddit

we stonk now?

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chunkybeard@reddit

[Nice, you ripped off CarDealershipGuy's tweet verbatim](https://twitter.com/GuyDealership/status/1681661302769328128?t=rAYC3i4XUxr5ikmvqaK_Jg&s=03)

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dfields3710@reddit

Totally forgot about them tbh. Idc if they succeed or fail, I just want a Widebody Scat and not tryna pay $60k+ used.

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Spicywolff@reddit

I wanted a Chevy SS sedan and not pay 50k used with 60k miles.

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akmacmac@reddit

When can we import more from Australia? Seems like they’re a dime a dozen over there.

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seoultrain1@reddit

You can import the old Commodores, but RHD is a pain.

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akmacmac@reddit

Ah yes, forgot about the RHD issue

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seoultrain1@reddit

I'd still expect to see some get imported, but I don't think I've even heard of one apart from a donor ute.

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Spicywolff@reddit

No idea, I wish GM didn’t screw over Australia the way they did. The V8 sedans from there, make me drool state side.

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CreatedUsername1@reddit

Why get a SS if you can get a CTS V or a ct5 blackwing

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DOGO8991@reddit

Black wings are such a sleeper. Even just the regular V6 CT5-V always catches my eye

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seoultrain1@reddit

CTS-V is older, no magneride, worse electronics, worse sound (imo). But I do love both of them. Sadly, the CTS-V is also getting more expensive.

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Spicywolff@reddit

At the time when SS sedan was sold. The black wing wasn’t a thing. SS stopped us sales in 17, blackening didn’t hit the screen till 2018. At the time in the GM line up you had Camaro/Vett, SS sedan, CTS V, Buick regal GS, the Buick version of the Cruze with a 2.0T. At the time the V was way way above the SS in terms of price.

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66LSGoat@reddit

Also, good luck finding the manual ones.

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handymanshandle@reddit

Manual ones got right into “No lowballers” territory right when COVID hit. And now all of the automatic ones are getting wrecked and/or stolen. If you have any SS, enjoy it.

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Crash458@reddit

Why are they being stolen? Are they easy to steal or just that valuable?

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handymanshandle@reddit

VERY valuable and seemingly easy enough to steal. It’s the perfect counter to the Scat Pack and G35 that every idiot at a takeover owns. They also get stripped for parts to be resold on eBay as parts are pretty much impossible to get nowadays outside of that.

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Crash458@reddit

Wow, I didn't even think about that. That would also explain why I see at least one Chevy SS along with multiple Infiniti and dodge models participating in takeovers on YouTube. Especially in Los Angeles and Compton near my my neighborhood. Good points.

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happy--muffin@reddit

You seem knowledgeable on this subject matter, I’m curious what’s up with all the street takeovers? Is it just the current day trend of flash mobs or is it a new style of street racing? Like who can do donuts the longest before hitting an audience kinda thing? And sports betting on top of it?

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Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit

SS are pretty valuable. Rwd, 4 door sedan, fast, essentially 4 door Vette.

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davabran@reddit

I think has magride suspension too.

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ChasingFlakes@reddit

Closer to a GTO imo

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Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit

*Essentially* GTO is closer to a Vette than an SS. Most folks don't remember the GTO very well hence why I skipped it.

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skottay@reddit

they're great for takeovers

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penis-tango-man@reddit

Will do

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SonnySwanson@reddit

I still kick myself for not getting one at 20% off MSRP new when they were trying to get them off dealer lots.

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Spicywolff@reddit

When I worked there, we had a beautiful one in blue and stick shift. We could move it. No one wanted it. I should’ve bought it there.

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DOGO8991@reddit

For real, Scat and Cat prices are utterly absurd. I wanna be able to buy a used one in good condition in 5 years Hellraisin Charger 🤤

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762_54r@reddit

bro i literally messaged one of their support people and tried to lowball them on a widebody scat by telling them they were getting laid off soon anyway i know thats not how it works. and it didnt work. and also i was clearly wrong.

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critical_suspect1@reddit

It's not Carvana's fault. In demand cars will be in demand

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notreallysrs@reddit

r/stocks wrong yet again lol

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ShinShinGogetsuko@reddit

Anecdotally, trading my car into Carvana was ridiculously easy, even better than Carmax. 10 minute process, THAT'S IT. On the downside, I later looked at the listing for my car and they mistook the clear bra seems for scratches. Poor new owner, thinks they're getting a "scratched up" car instead of one with 60% of the body protected by clear bra.

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NotoriousCFR@reddit

I sold a car to Carvana, it was easier than taking a dump (and quicker depending on what was for dinner last night). Filled out some bullshit online questionnaire, 2 days later someone was in my driveway with a flatbed and a big fat check. If you have a spare mid-late model car lying around that you want to unload for a good price, they are an amazing resource. That said, I wouldn't buy a vehicle from their inventory if it was the last car on earth.

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ShinShinGogetsuko@reddit

> it was easier than taking a dump LOL, yep. They did zero inspection or test drive of my car, unlike CarMax. I agree, would never buy from them.

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AtlantaUtdFan@reddit

Same here. Sold 2 cars for profit to Carvana after driving them for a year. Luckily they were in great shape so the next owner isn’t getting a heap but they didn’t even turn the engine over. I wouldn’t touch a car they have for sale with a 30 foot pole.

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peakdecline@reddit

>Poor new owner, thinks they're getting a "scratched up" car instead of one with 60% of the body protected by clear bra. Sounds like a win for whoever buys it. They're saving money by getting the one with some scratches to find out in person is clear bra seams.

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ChasingFlakes@reddit

They only offered 9.5k for my 15 Forester XT with 96k miles and 2 accident reports (1 minor & 1 extensive after a tree fell on it and should 100% have totaled it). Auto Lenders in the mid -atlantic offered 13k sight unseen and I'm sure they're gonna take a loss lol

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Ok-Champion9738@reddit

Dang I was waiting them out to have crazy discounts on new cars

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AnastasiusDicorus@reddit

Yeah but they didn't like my 2008 Accord V6 coupe with only 94K miles. They offered $3500 when local dealers have offered $6500 cash for it. Still not selling but if someone offered $10k it's theirs.

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BrittBratBrute@reddit

This is a bandaid. I still to this day don't know anyone who has PURCHASED a vehicle from Carvana. Sold to them, sure. I've sold 3 cars to them for really ridiculous prices. If they keep operating like the morons they are, they will still fail eventually.

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ErnieMcCraken@reddit

This was stolen from Cardealershipguy on Twitter. It actually verbatim. If you’re going to steal his shit at least give him credit for it. [link](https://twitter.com/GuyDealership/status/1681661302769328128)

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

It may be premature to say there’re going to “make it,” but they have guarded against the most immediate threat.

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F1rstxLas7@reddit

They absolutely have not delivered for shareholders. I understand this is a subreddit for all things cars, but OP seems to be cherry picking like a maniac. They're up 1700% over the last 7 months, but only up 17% over the last 5 years and this doesn't even take into account the rapid inflation over the last year or so. The S&P has returned 63% over the same time frame. Shareholders would've been better off just listening to the very generic, and very good advice to just buy an S&P500 index fund. Raising capital by selling more shares is a TERRIBLE way to get more people to invest. The more diluted a company is, the worse off it is in terms of investment. BUYING shares back is what promotes shareholder value, not the other way around.

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DOGO8991@reddit

Thank you lol

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Ycx48raQk59F@reddit

> but only up 17% over the last 5 years and this doesn't even take into account the rapid inflation over the last year or so. Also, down to 1/5th of were they were 2 years ago.

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FroyoOk3159@reddit

Agreed. I first thought “and boy howdy have they delivered” was meant to be sarcastic.

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D4rkr4in@reddit

I've found that in general Redditors don't really understand the stock market, and that makes sense when it's just a bunch of retail investors whose involvement in stocks comes from /r/wallstreetbets

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OkayTryAgain@reddit

>I've found that in general ~~Redditors~~ people don't really understand the stock market... FTFY Not knowing about the stock market is okay. Commenting on things you don't know about is the annoying part of Reddit/common discussion.

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faustianBM@reddit

I kind of agree (not knowing shit about the market myself). But if I upvote your comment, it'll get more visibility, which will cause the guys from r/wallstreetbets to see it & downvote you to oblivion. You're welcome.

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critical_suspect1@reddit

VTI gang

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Princeofmidwest@reddit

VTI and chill.

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kevindlv@reddit

VTI with a side of BRK.B

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critical_suspect1@reddit

Nah, that's just the same thing. I just do VTSAX (mutual fund version of VTI) and VTBLX (total bond fund). That's it

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404merrinessnotfound@reddit

Yea share dilution is not good normally

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BeingRightAmbassador@reddit

Car people and finances rarely mix for a good result. CVNA still has a shit business model with unnecessary bloated overhead and absurd levels of debt/sad profitability on sold vehicles. They're less screwed than they were a few months ago, but they still have fundamental issues with actually making a profit. They used to lose ~3/4B a quarter, now they're only losing ~1/4B a quarter.

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BlazinAzn38@reddit

Just anecdotally they gave me $23K for my car with torn front seats and it’s now listed at $26K with repaired front seats. That plus operating expenses brings margins into the single digits.

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czarfalcon@reddit

Fuck it, I might have to dig into their 10-K and see what’s *really* going on under the hood. I don’t know much about cars, but I know a little more about finance.

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DavidAg02@reddit

This should be the top comment. Very well said.

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grubas@reddit

> Raising capital by selling more shares is a TERRIBLE way to get more people to invest. The more diluted a company is, the worse off it is in terms of investment. Yeah I was with OP until he announced that. Then I just got confused. All they did was stave off IMPENDING closure/money issues. They didn't really fix anything. It's the equivalent of "THE FAMILY WILL NEVER GO HUNGRY AGAIN, I HAVE SANDWICHES FOR TONIGHT!"

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desirox@reddit

Fair points. Seems they’ve just bought themselves more time

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EntroperZero@reddit

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/CVNA:NYSE?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI1tPqtZuAAxUWF1kFHUnJBsgQ3ecFegQILxAf&window=5Y

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

I'm not talking about the last 7 years. I'm talking about since this problem showed up and shareholders demanded Carvana turn it's shit around. Since then, shares have skyrocketed.

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Guitars-Not-Bombs@reddit

> They delivered Their *attorneys* delivered.

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F1rstxLas7@reddit

Found the bag holder.

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

LOL. No. But I am a little mad I didn't buy the bottom. You mad too?

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ThroJSimpson@reddit

What does this comment even mean? The people he’s talking about who invested 7 months ago are 20x better off than the people who invested 5 years ago. I think you’re the bag holder….

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Vesploogie@reddit

Nothing like a good ol gotcha comment to get the upvotes stirring!

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

1) No. 2) I'm LOL'ing

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calfan5@reddit

They're still down 85% from the peak in Aug 2021 so they have only bounced back a little bit from their death spiral.

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Twistedshakratree@reddit

*memestock fanboys delivered for carvana. The company took advantage of this opportunity to starve off bankruptcy, which was very close anyway, for another year in hopes the market does not have a major recession.

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

Fair point

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ped1nhuh@reddit

>And boy howdy have they delivered for shareholders Only for those who bought in December 2022.

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

Or almost any time since then. That's a lot of people.

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pdogshizzle@reddit

I’d argue they would always make it with back door funding via Ernest Garcia II and his ownership of Drivetime.

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lvz0091@reddit

I dunno what to do atm. I have nearly made 300k on thi stock.

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Bigbadbrindledog@reddit

It seems like the reasonable thing to do is cash out and buy a GT3 and Z06

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lvz0091@reddit

Yeah I did so a few minutes ago I’m stress free time to pay the tax man

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lmaccaro@reddit

Hot tip, if you have a good credit score, you can go over to /r/churning, open 6 rewards credit cards, and pay the taxes to the IRS via credit card. Claim all the bonuses and be sitting on 500k-1m miles for about a 2% fee.

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epsiblivion@reddit

or 10 miatas

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Bigbadbrindledog@reddit

Or 20 NAs

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Neon_Biscuit@reddit (OP)

Help a brother out with some bills? Lol

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lvz0091@reddit

It’s ok by the time I will be ready to sell I will be in the negative

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JWGhetto@reddit

Do it now, dump into ETFs. Nothing will ever shake you financially from now on, either you take the traditional route and let it grow for 20+ years or take it easy and give yourself a 10k raise

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Steak_Break@reddit

A true diamond hand in the wild I see

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BeerorCoffee@reddit

Sell it then post your positions on WSB for fake internet points!

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Holiday_Parsnip_9841@reddit

It's up 33% in the last day, 48% in the last week. Take a bunch of cash off the table ASAP.

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fastfalcon991@reddit

Use it to buy a real estate investment

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lvz0091@reddit

Already have too many

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Sure-Leg-6769@reddit

Take some profits.

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CreatineDonuts@reddit

What is YAA going to do about their clickbait videos now :(

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poppadoc696969@reddit

Are you CarDealershipGuy on Twitter or just reposting his exact content as your own?

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thedirtygerman@reddit

Isn't the majority of stockholders for.csrvana the father and son himself? There was a YouTube video portraying carvana as a financial company disguised as a car reseller to get open market loans some months ago.

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Car-face@reddit

Wasn't a big part of their issue that they were paying through the arse for cars in order to try and get as much market share in the used car space as possible, only to be left holding the bag on over valued inventory once supply issues eased? Has that changed? I mean it's great they reduced their debt, but they still need a sustainable business model, in a market where used prices are expected to be volatile for the forseeable future and people are still expecting to get high prices for their used shitboxes. A lot of those point still raise questions: >Reached a deal with noteholders to reduce its total debt by $1.2B So what's their total debt now? >Raising $1B in capital by selling new shares How does that compare to remaining cash on hand? >Reducing annual interest expense by $430M over the next 2 years So what's their annual interest now? That's probably the main one - reducing annual interest by $430m sounds like people's previous concerns were justified considering it indicates massive debt obligations, but what their annual repayments are at now (and what other terms come with that reduction - non-dilutable shares? some other compensation?) is going to be more instructive in terms of what options they have next. It sounds like they're no longer bleeding from every orifice, but that doesn't mean they're off the operating table. 1600% share price increase sounds great for retail investors who can convince themselves they knew this would happen, but it doesn't actually mean anything in terms of fundamentals for the company.

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gHHqdm5a4UySnUFM@reddit

If I was a gambling man, I'd try to short Carvana.

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anonymouswan1@reddit

Never. Carvana single handedly pissing off every redditor who thinks the used car market is a bubble. Carvana will buy anything for 2x what you think it's worth and sell it for 3x to someone with shit credit. Everyone wins! Well, except for the sap with shit credit.

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JWGhetto@reddit

Or the ones giving out the credit. Lemme guess, those are sold as CDOs to other investors? Full fucking circle were back to square 2008

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cartersa87@reddit

From [10-Q](https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/cvna/) for Q2 ‘23 Net income = -$58 million Total debt = $7,300 million

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Lauzz91@reddit

The stock price is the product, not the leases. As long as they can wind it out for another quarter with more credit, more people and upper management can sell their own shares and jump ship

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6thGenFtw@reddit

Caravan literally sells cars that are reported stolen. Fuck that company too bad they’re getting bailed out of the failure they rightfully deserve.

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Flavioxsanchez@reddit

did you steal this tweet or is that your account

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NaGaBa@reddit

This isn't another case of Game Stop, is it?

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

Nothing in that list makes money lmao.

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bonerJR@reddit

lol at the entire thread and basically every comment

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PoopholeLicker@reddit

Lmao people look at its 5 year chart

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dauntlessmax@reddit

I bought a few shares to hold and… yeah. I’m just as surprised as you.

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AaawhDamn@reddit

They gave me (an employee) $500 in free stock at $8 back in February lol. Needless to say I am very happy today

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ScipioAfricanvs@reddit

Same, bought at $21 then averaged down when it was $8. Pleasantly surprised.

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dauntlessmax@reddit

Facts dude. It’s been a wild ride (like everyday) but I just buy and hold haha

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AaawhDamn@reddit

The $500 in free stock they gave some of us employees back in February looking reeeeeal nice right now lol

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silentsnooc@reddit

$NKLA 👀

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LouieDaPalma@reddit

Who bought at the bottom? No many

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Atmosphere_Unlikely@reddit

Thank you for copying [TheCarDealershipGuy’s tweet](https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1681661302769328128?s=46)verbatim without attribution. You do this often?

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paspasero@reddit

I came here to say the same thing.

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magnosfw@reddit

They offered me $500 for my wife's 2013 Prius with 97k miles last night. I think I know where the progress is coming from.

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WarmSlime666@reddit

Just sold my car to them a few weeks ago. It was a 2015 FRS, which I bought in 2017 with 36k miles on it for $17k. Carvana bought it from me 6 years later and 110k miles for $16,600

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lewd3rd@reddit

I'm trying to think of something more foolish than buying a car without seeing or driving it.....mail order bride?

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DavidAg02@reddit

Yet they are still making poor decisions at the retail level... like this: https://old.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/152zlaj/my_wife_just_sold_her_2015_chrysler_200_to/ Which was just posted... YESTERDAY. They have a long way to go to be a successful company.

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PJKenobi@reddit

I should of bought the fucking stock but there was no way for me to know and I wasn't about to gamble thousands of dollars

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kyflyboy@reddit

Isn't this a finance company posing as a car company?

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gogojack@reddit

Partially. It's also a "buy here, pay here" sketchy car lot with a shiny exterior and good marketing. A little over 2 years ago I worked there for a hot minute. Some of my current co-workers also came from Carvana. General consensus is that it's a complete shit-show. Would I sell them a car? Absolutely. They pay way over what they should, and do minimal inspections if at all. Would I buy from them? Hell no, for the same reason. Also, they push people into their own financing, which is 90 percent of their customers (at least when I was there). I saw some appalling "deals." 84 months at 28% financing for a car that's already stupidly overpriced even if it wasn't crap? Yeah...good luck with that.

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Halloween_Cake@reddit

I bought stock at $11 months ago and now it's worth $52 (ish) One of those things, I wish I bought more of, but at the time I was unsure where it was going to go.

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SamBrico246@reddit

Are they *profitable*?

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Twistedshakratree@reddit

If board members didn’t do this I think even Cramer would have got them on his show just to slap them on live tv.

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BeerorCoffee@reddit

One of those stocks that I added to my "watch list" back in December and then promptly didn't watch or invest in.

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Bearman71@reddit

I actively tell my friends not to buy from carvana. When I worked in auto sales every single sime someone came in with a car vana tag it was always a car right out of warranty with major issues or had multiple repaired collisions. We would almost get into fist fights trying to catch those customers.

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ZachOf_AllTrades@reddit

Where are you seeing 1600% ? They were at 4.42 on 19 Dec and 52.19 today, which is a 1080% increase.

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ArthurToddAnthony@reddit

So it's reached the same valuation it had 2 years ago and is still about $300 off all time high per share?

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RefrigeratorGold8291@reddit

I'm so glad I invested in it a while back.

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mrjbacon@reddit

None of that matters. They still exhibit some super shady business practices and neglect customers with regards to titling and paperwork for cars they purchase.

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SyntheticOne@reddit

Let's see, for some reason their noteholders erased $1.2B in debt (they must be very, very worried) and is rais"ing" (but has not raised) $1B by selling new shares while at an all-time high and have paid top dollar for all of their inventory in a declining market......pondering this..... No, not out of the woods by a long shot. Let's see how that sale goes. Please know I don't want to see any company crash, but it looks like management has done all they can to make it crash. My SWAG is that the creditors decided to try to retain half of the debt on an outside chance rather than losing all of what is owed. I hope they make it. BUT (and that's a big but).

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hugh_madson@reddit

Reading some of the uh.. fascinating investment advice posts here, I had to double check if I was on r/wsb or r/cars.

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Guitars-Not-Bombs@reddit

Grifters gonna grift, that's what they're good at.

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custompcthrowaway@reddit

The most likely thing with their share price is shorts covering vs deep f value

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puddud4@reddit

I'm glad to see they're doing well. There is a legitimate need for online no haggle car buying. At this point dealerships are one of the most universally hated entities in America.

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didimao0072000@reddit

One reason why their stock skyrocketed in the past was because noone could buy a new car due to inventory shortages and had to pay a premium for overpriced used cars on carvana. With new car inventory slowly returning, who are these idiots still overpaying for used carvana cars?

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globroc@reddit

Ugh, I hate investing sometimes, I would absolutely have not bought Carvana stock a year ago, I thought they were destined to fail. Congrats to those that took the risk!

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Independent_Comb491@reddit

Well this sucks

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throwaway8008666@reddit

I honestly like the business model. The fact local used car places are mostly complete garbage helps them dramatically, in that there’s not really any benefit in buying something local. Might as well have more options and pay the delivery cost to get what you want, in many cases.

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ztimulating@reddit

I bought a car from them recently. Was a little hesitant because I thought they might go out of business. Researched and figured the main issue was just a bunch of wealthy people shorting another American company trying to put working people out of jobs. The buying experience took 15 minutes excluding the test drive, no finance jerk trying to sell me a worthless aftermarket warranty that’s 50% commission. was fantastic.

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roman_maverik@reddit

The stock is still *super* overvalued A good target price is still 10-15 dollars - there is gonna be a huge correction soon. I think people are using it as the next meme stock at the moment. I am actually rooting for carvana, as I actually think their business model is good. However, the company is still super over-valued for what it is

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AskReeves22@reddit

Do people buy from Carvana? Like for the joy of paying 40% more than everywhere else?

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Imasuspect99@reddit

I still wouldn't buy a vehicle from them

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maxxor6868@reddit

Hate it be a Debbie downer but this is cherry picking data. Selling new shares is not good for investors and doesn't encourage people to invest because their shares aren't worth as much now. Even with the increase if you bubble during the covid bubble your still down more than likely. With high interest rates for them to rebound in sales is also far from likely. Is it possible? Absolutely anything possible but this is more of a hail merry than a full turn around. Everything they done is what companies in their state can try to do but this can very easily be just them holding on.

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tofulo@reddit

Cool, can they buy my old car for 2x value again now?

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Infiniteremix@reddit

The survival and success of these types of companies is ultimately beneficial for auto consumers, as it places more pressure on shady dealership operations - at least as it pertains to used inventory. However, I’d still like to see Carvana improve its purchase inspections — too many stories of them basically loading cars onto the truck without doing basic checks. Their model can work, but they need to do more to protect buyers by ensuring their inventory is sound, and that any issues are transparently communicated.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

I trust Carvana less than your average "shady dealership operation"... so many stories out there of people selling cars with major issues to Carvana, because as you said, Carvana pickup drivers only open the driver's side door, check the odometer, and then drive the car onto the truck. And then there are all these titling issues too, I don't know if they've been resolved yet, but people were waiting months for their titles.

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ScoffingYayap@reddit

I had a coworker bragging about a Chevy he sold to AutoLenders that had an oil leak and other problems, and traded it for a used Range Rover also from AutoLenders. I told him all that told me was I should avoid buying cars from AutoLenders if those are the kinds of cars they take in.

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ScipioAfricanvs@reddit

It puts pressure on shitty dealer tactics because it shows consumers are willing to put a premium on not dealing with shenanigans. Same with CarMax. It’s ultimately a good thing for trying to break down or at least mitigate the predatory dealer model.

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Infiniteremix@reddit

I definitely agree that Carvana has issues they need to improve/resolve; however, this industry needs fresh competition, which will ultimately benefit the consumer. A significant portion of the market is generally moving away from traditional dealerships as a direct result of the negative experience many encounter when purchasing vehicles from traditional dealerships — they need a wake-up call. Of course, not all dealerships are bad, but with more competition, the bad ones will feel more pressure to make improvements.

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BlakesonHouser@reddit

no its not? its up like half that around 700%. Where are you getting 1600%?

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i_use_this_for_work@reddit

What you’re missing here is they swapped unsecured for secured first lien. They gave up something with zero recourse to something that is secured with the best assets of the company. This is the end of the pillage. They’ll tank, BK, and the creditors will take the best parts and rebuild/restructure.

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Regis_Phillies@reddit

They are also hoping to raise another $1 billion through the sale of some 35 million shares. It will be interesting to see what this does to share price. I can't confirm this, but based on the price Carvana pays for vehicles it seems they are using some kind of algorithm on the purchase side rather than just analyzing KBB or Manheim prices. I'm assuming scarcity of a particular vehicle comes into play there, and this has worked so far in a tight used car market. But as inventory builds, will they adjust quickly enough? iBuyers are only as good as their algorithm - look at what happened with Zillow's homebuying program.

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Jesus_H-Christ@reddit

If you're holding, don't get greedy. Take your profits and be happy.

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VaughnGarde@reddit

Not sure if you stole this from a tweet, or the big account who tweeted this stole it from you. Posted at a similar time

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CuriousTravlr@reddit

This was pretty obvious that this was going to happen. That’s the game you play when you build the infrastructure before you start making sales. Investors see the infrastructure and the locations and know there is something tangible there to build into for the future.

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TywinShitsGold@reddit

Why on earth did I pass on Christmas shares…$4>$60. Christ.

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My_G_Alt@reddit

Fucking insane turnaround, I was a staunch doubter and they definitely proved my ass wrong

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not_soo_cool@reddit

Let’s fucken go!!!

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