Instructor won’t let me finish instrument checkride
Posted by Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 46 comments
I passed my instrument ground portion of the checkride and had to discontinue for weather. I’ve rescheduled and had it canceled 5-6 times and everytime is at least a week or two to get a new date. I’ve been doing at least one flight in between and in the past week I’ve done 4 flights to make sure Im ready. Well my checkride was supposed to be tomorrow and after today’s flight my instructor told me to take a break from flying and that I won’t be doing the checkride. I’m not sure what to do, I’ll have to do even more expensive training, then retake an EOC(part 141) and another full checkride. Anybody have any recommendations or ideas for moving forward?
hawker1172@reddit
Well what happened during today’s flight?
Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit (OP)
A couple simple mistakes that I didn’t do in the past few flights prior. One was while on an approach that we were going missed on, I went missed early treating it like a da instead of mda instead of at the missed approach point, which I realized right away and told him. Two, on first approach I got the atis information and then part way through the approach I missed the controller telling another aircraft that there was new information current. Three I hit 3/4s deflection on glide slope on an lpv which I know is a checkride fail but I’ve been shooting the same three approaches my last 3 flights this week and that was my first time going 3/4 deflection.
The 4 flights I did this week cost way more than the checkride itself
Dry-Question3088@reddit
When you say you went missed at DA instead of MDA (I’m assuming it wasn’t an ILS or LPV or VNAV ) did you simply level out before the MAP or did you laterally depart the approach path by making a left or right turn before the MAP?
Also curious when you say you hit 3/4 scale deflection on an LPV glide slope (it’s technically GP as GS is associated with ILS) was it a 3/4 scale deflection vertically or laterally although either is a fail unless you correct. As far as staying within 3/4 laterally it helps to keep remembering the approach course stated on top of the plate while you’re doing the approach. Wrt to vertically you should have a GP further out from the runway than with an ILS since the system is not relying on capturing the GS signal from the runway. Make the GP symbol part of your scan
PoemCritical@reddit
Going missed early isn't a big deal. Take a look at AC120-108A. It encourages using a DDA on NPA's in liu of the MDA. Its also a reference in the ACS so it's legal to use on a checkride.
3/4 scale is the limit. The ACS says no more than 3/4 scale, so 3/4 or less is acceptable. If you touch 3/4 then promptly correct, no harm/no foul.
If your school has an AATD, its a great way to stay sharp while waiting on your ride, and it cost way less than the plane.
Dry-Question3088@reddit
This seems one of the most conflated items in instrument training and checkrides. I’ve even heard of DPEs disapproving candidates for going missed before the MAP where by missed I’m referring to candidates departing from the GP/GS vertically and not laterally.
In other words candidates were disapproved inspite of staying within the lateral corridor of the approach path but decided to level out either before or after the FAF and departed from the approach path laterally at the MAP!
dylan_hawley@reddit
Yeah hate to break it to you but your instructor is right, you would’ve failed
itsCamaro@reddit
It's one bad practice flight as he's been cancelled 6 times. Who wouldn't be off their game? What's with the tough love here.
Hdjskdjkd82@reddit
Because consistency is key. If you struggle with a simple review, those problems are always exacerbated on a checkride due to stress. And a good CFI with the right heart won’t let a student go in knowing he will fail.
itsCamaro@reddit
Yeah I don’t know. Consistency is key leading up to a check ride. I don’t know many people with such an extreme cancellation situation as this student. With him passing 5/6 review flights, sounds like maybe his CFI should just tell him to take a few days off then they can hit it again. His instructor practically dropping him on the most recent one after the student has already been met with the plague that is the DPE system sounds ridiculous and unnecessary.
dylan_hawley@reddit
Tough love is better than a checkride failure and however much it costs to take it being wasted
hawker1172@reddit
Your CFI is looking out for your best interests. Youd much rather spend more time and money preparing for checkride than failing one and screwing your career. You are thinking short term. Your CFI is thinking long-term from experience.
Ok_Truck_5092@reddit
When do you need to take the checkride by? If you were signed off and ready to go, sounds like all of the delay and frustration is increasing your fatigue. I wasn’t perfect before my ride but I definitely didn’t go 3/4s deflection.
Could he mean you need a few days off to not fly and let your brain rest a bit? Maybe take a week or so off, then kill 2 flights and see what he says.
Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit (OP)
Also my 60 days expires in 4 days, and my part 141 grad cert also expires today.
Ok_Truck_5092@reddit
I’m not familiar with how it works at your flight school, but is it possible to get those endorsements renewed? Why would they make you start completely fresh? What does the Chief pilot think?
I don’t know the full story but not flying for months when you’re right at the end of your instrument sounds like a terrible idea. Get some sleep and send some time doing something else, and get back into it. Maybe look into a different instructor or school if it doesn’t screw you.
Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit (OP)
It’s not the endorsements, if you only complete the ground portion, that’s only good for 60 days to get the flight done, or else you have to retake the ground and the flight
Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit (OP)
I know the 3/4 was a big mistake I feel like maybe it was nerves being the day before actual checkride but no good excuse really. And he meant take a break as in don’t fly for a few weeks-months. Then he wants me to come back for training before doing another eoc and checkride.
TxAggieMike@reddit
Based on this, a break to take a breath, reboot your hard drive, and then regain your mojo may be in your best interest
TemporaryLecture4154@reddit
Do the checkride flight, pass, and then find a new instructor
cazzipropri@reddit
Long ago, I busted my IR checkride for a variety of reasons, and I wish my CFI told me to take a break and fix my weaknesses.
glaz5@reddit
I feel like theres more to this. Why would your instructor tell you to 'take a break from flying'?
Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit (OP)
Well since my checkride ground is expiring and my grad cert is expiring, he thinks it’s better to take a break from flying for a while and then come back and restart fresh, but I feel like taking a break will just completely take me back in my training
ashtranscends@reddit
Yeah that won’t help. “Taking a break” as in a couple weeks off to clear your mind & come back refreshed could work, it helped me before one of my checkrides. But not as long a break as what he’s suggesting.
Emotional-Contract25@reddit
That sounds like the dumbest thing you could do. Try and get it done you’re almost there. You can rest after.
dieseltaco@reddit
POWERTHIRST
MarlesTAO@reddit
I'm a CFII do NOT take a break!! If you do you'll lose proficiency and very quickly.. the instructor telling you to take a break from flying? Ask what the logic or reasoning there is behind that and if his reasoning isn't valid or even if it's not go get a NEW instructor immediately!!! I've taken 5 check rides haven't failed one. I've had instructors tell me I wasn't ready or weren't confident in me then I breeze through. Instructors like to put themselves on a pedestal because they have completed a hard phase but we aren't "Gods" we make mistakes that we need to learn from a good instructor is constantly working to get better for there students.. Go get a new instructor IMMEDIATELY and tell the old one he needs a reality check ✔️
Vman9910@reddit
I know it’s not ideal, and I’m just a beginner myself, but isn’t a small positive that these hours are getting logged into your TT? Wishing you luck closing the door on your instrument training!
NevadaCFI@reddit
If he has signed you off, he has no say in the matter. You can find a DPE on your own and take the checkride anywhere you like.
Mountain-Captain-396@reddit
Not true for Part 141
Icy-Bar-9712@reddit
Yes he is. Once you have an EOC certificate, endorsements you can take a checkride with anyone.
Plane access could be an issue if the school says nope. But realistically. Show up with plane, MX, log book and school binder and you are every bit as good to go as a 61 student.
Mountain-Captain-396@reddit
Unless the 141 school doesn't have examining authority (at which point why even go 141 in the first place), the EOC ride is a checkride. You don't get your EOC until after you pass your final checkride and get your cert.
Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit (OP)
Actually eoc is end of course stage check. It’s essentially a more in depth mock checkride. you must pass the eoc through the school to get the grad cert, then the cfi can sign off for a checkride
NevadaCFI@reddit
If the OP meets part 61 requirements, he can take a checkride. Getting his CFI to sign him off in IACRA could be an issue. He could go to any 61 school and if the knowledge and proficiency is there, it would not take long to get a new sign off.
Icy-Bar-9712@reddit
My 141 doesn't have self examining auth. Any of our EOC students could take their endos, eoc cert, school binder, and a plane and go take a ride with anyone.
As for why even then? Combo IR/CAX is 155 hrs in programml. If you get your PVT in 50 or 60. You can be a commercial IR rated pilot at 210, 215.
PVT, yeah, I kinda agree with you there, but it forces the ground hours that a lot of people don't want to put in.
CaptMcMooney@reddit
you've obv been signed off for the checkride, if you feel you're ready, why do you care what he thinks ?
Silent_Possession861@reddit
Thats not how it works in a 141 school and really not even in a 61. If the instructor doesn't want you taking the ride he can always just call the examiner and say it's a no go or the instructor can tell the chief pilot not to give him an EOC sign off.
nascent_aviator@reddit
OP already has an EOC sign off. Nothing's stopping them from scheduling with a DPE.
Except for the practical issue that they're probably using their school's plane for the checkride, anyway.
CaptMcMooney@reddit
Once i had my endorsement, i scheduled my own checkride, actually had to go 3 states over to take it. No CFI involvement at all.
fallingfaster345@reddit
As someone who also was a victim of the 141 cycle of endless EOC and checkride cancellations so that when you finally DO get a checkride date you’re not proficient anymore… if your CFI is advising you not to go for the checkride anymore, take their advice. It’s not easy to tell a student that you’d previously endorsed that they are no longer ready. The person telling you that cares about your success and, tbh, your success also reflects upon their training.
People who are 100% prepared for checkrides still end up with a fail sometimes. If you have the opportunity to get some more training flights in, regain proficiency, and then try again - with no failure on your record - I would take it. How mad will you be at yourself if you go because you feel rushed to get it done in the next four days and then end up with a failure? Redoing the oral sucks, but it’s better than the alternative: a checkride fail.
I’m not saying you are necessarily doomed to fail, but your CFI is seeing things that we on Reddit can’t. Your CFI seems like they are looking out for your best interests. That said, it’s ultimately your call.
friendlylocaldpe@reddit
Why is he telling you that? What issues is he seeing, and have you two had a conversation about that? He previously felt confident signing you off since you've already started the test, so what has changed in the last few weeks?
burnheartmusic@reddit
3/4 deflection on the last flight
itsCamaro@reddit
I don't have any advice but I have sympathy for you unlike a lot of what is said on Reddit behind screens. Based on what you described, I am so sorry this is happening to you. Sounds like a nightmare. Talk to him, see what you can do. But I am shocked; I don't even know what I would do here.
dat_empennage@reddit
Your instructor felt your proficiency (or lack thereof) indicate a high likelihood of not passing your EOC. Sounds like they did you a favor instead of letting you find out the hard way…
Mammoth_Librarian_64@reddit (OP)
I already took my eoc, and passed it 2 times.
dragrequired@reddit
It’s your instructors job not only to teach you and mentor you but to act in your best interest as a student of the art. If you disagree with their sentiment, you need to have a serious objective introspective about their rationale for having you take a breather; Every instructor has skin in the game for their students success and safety and their convictions come from experience.
Could you scrape by the ride tomorrow? Maybe so. Would you have a much more positive and educational checkride after a short breather to regroup? Likely so. We all have needed one of those at some point.
Spartan158@reddit
If you’re telling the truth you have his endorsement already. He can’t stop you
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I passed my instrument ground portion of the checkride and had to discontinue for weather. I’ve rescheduled and had it canceled 5-6 times and everytime is at least a week or two to get a new date. I’ve been doing at least one flight in between and in the past week I’ve done 4 flights to make sure Im ready. Well my checkride was supposed to be tomorrow and after today’s flight my instructor told me to take a break from flying and that I won’t be doing the checkride. I’m not sure what to do, I’ll have to do even more expensive training, then retake an EOC(part 141) and another full checkride. Anybody have any recommendations or ideas for moving forward?
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