I don't even know if a rotary is viable in today's market unless they've made major strides in engineering. The RX-8 had the torque of a 3 cylinder, the fuel economy of an Escalade, and drank oil like it had a blown gasket. Today's market is valuing sports cars ever less and demanding increasing efficiency across the board.
I'd love to see a next-gen improved RX-9, but I really doubt we see it.
At one point a sports car with the stupidest possible engine in the dumbest possible place was an anchor on a nearly bankrupt company and now its the most profitable model line in the world.
The Boxster did stem the bleeding. Parts sharing the front end with the 911 saved them a huge amount of money and added another revenue stream. Had they not started building SUV's there is a solid chance that Porsche would not exist today. The SUV's are what made them money and really turned their fortunes around.
>I don't even know if a rotary is viable in today's market unless they've made major strides in engineering.
The article quotes him saying they've made good progress. I feel like with a sports car, engineering is easier than marketing. People always talk about how cool sports cars are, but when given the chance to buy one, they just don't. Even with practicality and price aside, people just tend to buy whatever they are used to. And because coupes and aporty cars are less common, people seem way more hesitant to buy one, even if they claim to want one. I mean, heck, I wanted a Mustang and ended up in a commuter Toyota.
>Anyone who still believes all the marketing bs we've been hearing for two decades has lost the plot
If by "marketing" you mean news outlets that clickbait idiots, then yes (: - they delivered on the new SkyActive engines and the rotary range extender. The rest was all articles hyping up nothing for clicks.
Anything besides putting money against the Chinese EV juggernaut.
Pickups - A truly small pickup truck would do well in the trades. People are still driving around in 30 year old pickups because even the Maverick is big compared to their needs. But it wouldn't be high margin and wouldn't fit Mazda's current near luxury aspirations.
Sport sedan - we saw with the Stinger - won't sell. Maybe if you can sell M4 performance for a 435 pricing, but it would have to be at that level of steal.
Minivans - I own a fully loaded Sienna. I would buy a Lexus F minivan or Porsche minivan in a hot second. But I suspect I would be one of maybe twenty buyers willing to spend $100K on a minivan.
The rotary - just kill it already. It won't go anywhere and there is no point in investing more into a sinking ship.
Bringing back the rotary, a RWD I6 Mazda6, bringing back the RX7….this is just another failed promise to enthusiasts in favor of putting out their 19th SUV in their line up and bumping the price of the Miata and other $2k
I hate to say it but the most intriguing, attention grabbing and probably the most profitable is Mazda building a premium minivan.
I can see them finding a niche with a people mover that punches above its class in terms of design and fit.
I would kill for a Mazda minivan. Already looking at cx90s but I just prefer minivans.
Make it a PHEV with a 2.5 skyactiv X engine and 50 miles of electric only range and I'm more than sold.
Skyactiv X is the perfect engine for a PHEV too because the diesel like ignition at steady rpms on highways, meaning you're getting the best of both worlds on fuel economy.
AWD should be a rear electric axle no mechanical connection for space efficiency and add optional rear steer to cut down on turning radius.
Pricing would probably be similar to a cx90 overall, which I wouldn't be mad at.
Yup and they already have a partner for it, since Lexus has a minivan for the non-US market but haven’t brought it over.
I would gladly buy a premium minivan
I think investing a single Yen on new internal combustion tech as internal combustion is nearing its end for road cars is a waste. Skyactiv-X should’ve been the last groundbreaking new ICE tech Mazda invested in, and that didn’t seem to go very far. They should go all-in on hybrids with off-the-shelf engine tech.
This man gets it, you gotta change the conversation to something way more realistic.
Rotary powered Manual Offroad Van in Polymetal Soul Brown. Call it the **VX-50**
Two interesting topics that I haven't seen covered on the previous articles posted this week about Mazda that are covered here:
**1. Talk of a sporty sedan**
>Moro also hinted at interest in a sporty sedan. "The sedan segment has shrunk but there are many fans," he says. "We've got a really beautiful concept. We already have this idea. We are able to install a six-cylinder, but marketability remains a concern."
**2. A potential future Mazda pickup for NA market**
>When asked about a small pickup truck, a market segment Mazda hasn't been a part of since 2009, Moro was thoughtful. "We get requests from our data partners to see a small pickup truck, but we don't have the platform to do it." That won't stop Mazda from pursuing it, though, if Moro feels it's a good market option. "We could work with other OEMs to get it. Pickup truck is good for many people. Our coverage of the total industry is only 50 percent because we don't have a pickup truck. It's good time to think about a future portfolio."
Number one is an interesting proposition, as the last 6 in turbo guise finally started to become more dynamically interesting (here in the states, anyway - the JP and EU diesel 6MT was a neat car). Throw in the new I-6, and you have a nice entry executive car. I thought they were talking about teaming up with Toyota/Lexus on this for a joint 6/IS, though?
Number two is a no brainer, but the chicken tax has been the problem to date. Maybe team up with Toyota to use the Tacoma chassis with Mazda drivetrains, like a US-based BT-50? That could be a really interesting truck, especially if they pair it with the diesel version of the I-6 that's in other markets.
Not a chance they bring a small diesel to the states. Strict emissions testing + much higher MSRP to pass those tests and they almost always come out less reliable and expensive to maintain. If you have enough gassee sales you can maybe justify it.
Don't know their gas lineup well enough to know if they have something that would work well for a midsize truck. Toyota just modified their SUV engine for the gen3 Tacoma.
I wouldn't call it a small diesel, unless you're comparing to the ~7L Cummins and PowerStroke - it's a 3.3L I-6 diesel, which would give it a leg up on the Colarado's 2.4L I-4 Duramax in the midsize truck market.
Small diesel is basically anything smaller than a 3/4 ton+ engine for the USDM.
The F150 was last sold with a 3.0 (it was a dismal failure), and the Babymax in the GMs is the same size. They wouldn't put a 3.6L diesel in a midsize truck for the US.
I also imagine they would struggle to keep it cool in the towing tests: ours is way harsher than other markets. The Jeep small diesels had to have cooling modifications and a lower tow rating than the gasser as a result.
>The F150 was last sold with a 3.0 (it was a dismal failure), and the Babymax in the GMs is the same size. They wouldn't put a 3.6L diesel in a midsize truck for the US.
I guess - it's one way they could make a new mid-size truck stand out. If Chevy can do it with the Colorado and the 2.8 Duramax, why couldn't Mazda with the 3.3? I would think they could offer the gasser from the CX-90 and adapt the diesel fairly easily (in terms of chassis mounting), since they're based off of the same architecture. They already offer both in the CX-60 and CX-80 overseas.
>I also imagine they would struggle to keep it cool in the towing tests: ours is way harsher than other markets.
Probably, but that's part of the engineering process for a brand new pickup.
Mazda is a small company, especially in the US, and going through the engineering process to make a unique product in an extremely competitive market is a non starter. Especially because they would need to stand up manufacturing in North America for this. The fact they don't offer their SUV diesel here is already a tell it's not worth US emissions compliance.
They already don't even make their own pickup in the international market: it's a rebadged Izuzu. So a full custom from the ground up vehicle when foreign car makers have struggled to break into pickups. The Tacoma has enough sales to stand alone and Nissan platform shares the Titan with the Navara.
I could maybe see a unibody entry to go against the Maverick where they could platform share with the SUVs and a small turbo gas engine. But they aren't bringing a BoF here: it would basically go as well as the Titan did.
>Mazda is a small company, especially in the US, and going through the engineering process to make a unique product in an extremely competitive market is a non starter. Especially because they would need to stand up manufacturing in North America for this.
This is why I was mentioning the idea of them platform sharing with Toyota, if they allowed it. Putting a Mazda body on the Tacoma frame could make a product different enough to not eat Tacoma sales, in theory. A long shot, absolutely, but potentially an interesting product if Mazda went with the two 3.3L engines. This could also replace the BT-50 globally (the Isuzu D-max rebadge you mentioned).
All of this is a bit much, anyway, due to the chicken tax making any foreign truck a really tough sell here without substantial domestic buy-in....but then again, as I was mentioning with a potential Toyota tie-in, that could be one of the few ways to attempt to do it, along with your note above about a unibody truck a la Ridgeline.
I wasn't talking about cars, I was talking about their pickup truck offering. Chevy still offers a mid-size diesel, and it's a smaller engine than Mazda's.
I wouldn't call it a small diesel, unless you're comparing to the ~7L Cummins and PowerStroke - it's a 3.3L I-6 diesel, which would give it a leg up on the Colarado's 2.4L I-4 Duramax in the midsize truck market.
But they also won't sell. At that point, Mazda would be competing against cars like the BMW 5-series, and there's no way in hell anyone's going to pick a Mazda over the 5-series in that situation, regardless of how good the Mazda is.
Why are you comparing a Mazda 6 to a 5 series?
Do you compare a CX70 to a X5 *just* because they have a straight 6 and a longitudinal chassis?
No, of course not.
I'd not compare the CX-70 with the X5 as they're in completely different price brackets. I can compare a potential Mazda 6 with the BMW 5-series based on its competitors prices though. At least in the U.K, a VW Passat starts at £40k, and the Skoda Superb starts at £36k (basically the same car but a sedan), and both cars come with a 1.5 l I4. What you need to realise is that at these prices, they're not selling very well as they're too expensive for a family car and don't have the same brand value or reputation that would be needed to compete against the executive sedans of Mercedes and BMW. A new Mazda 6 successor would need to be \~£30k and likely get Mazda's 2.5 l hybrid for fuel economy. Shoving an inline 6 into that car would make no sense from a sales perspective.
Large family sedans from America are basically luxury sedan in most world. Camry is a good example, world version Camry is much luxury than America one.
5 series starts at £52,000 for poverty spec which no one buys, do you really think another 6 which would be around 10k cheaper would be its competition. Even with financing a CX-80 is over £100 cheaper a month
I don't think 5-series customers would buy a Mazda, even if it's 10k cheaper. The G60 is nearly as large as the G11 7-series (6 cm shorter), though the 7-series did come with a long wheelbase option which would increase the difference in length.
As for other people who wouldn't buy a BMW, I think they might have a chance. I was going to say £40k is probably a lot for a mid-size car, but then I saw the VW Passat starts from £40k and the Skoda Superb starts from £36k. The only thing is I've basically never seen either of those cars anytime recently, and I don't think I will as people looking at that price bracket would rather buy an equivalent crossover, which is the Mazda CX-60 (I haven't seen any of this around either).
>. We are able to install a six-cylinder, but marketability remains a concern."
Makes sense why Mazda is hesitant to sell a new sedan model for the U.S. market, that previous generation Mazda 6 sold poorly compared to most of its mid-size competitors. The risk of another unprofitable sedan in their lineup is too high.
Maybe back then, but in today's market?
What other inline 6 , 6 speed rwd sedan is out there? A few years ago I was in the market for a sporty sedan and the closest I could find was a G70 genesis with the 2.0T that is underpowered for it's size. I opted for a fwd sedan instead. Then again maybe there's just not enough people that would buy a manual rwd sedan and it's more of a niche market. It's a shame Lexus also dropped the MT option from the IS platform.
There is no more enthusiastic brand in the world than Mazda and I am grateful for all they do for motorsports, sports car fans, and lovers of internal combustion world wide.
Mazda is smoking crack. Ice engine development is irrelevant at this point. They complain that they don't have the money to electrify, but they're still blowing r&d cash on their rotary pipe-dream.
> Mazda is smoking crack.
I wish more automakers would smoke **more** crack.
Otherwise everything converges on a heavy CUV with a big tablet or excessively sized pickup truck.
Everybody is doing the same thing. Crossovers, SUVs, pickup trucks and uninspired EVs. I get why they do that, it satistifies the bulk of the market. But there are plenty of niches out there up for grab that nobody pays attention to.
We may live in bleak times, but some of us still want to have fun and are still attracted to things that are unique and different.
Idgaf about the rotaries.
Keep the 3 and cx-30 around with a manual and for the love of God just keep the miata around please. Even if one day his has to be hybrid or electric. Just keep the small roaster and hatchback around.
I'm not optimistic at all that any of the things discussed in the article will come to fruition, but I'd like to be surprised. Would love a replacement for my mazda5, doubt we'll ever get one with how well mazda compact SUVs sell tho
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