Not on crack, but it's still a subjective call, IMO. The Maserati is bland in black, but clean. The Alfa dash looks over styled to me. I like buttons, though, so I'd have to pick the Alfa. I don't think either one is class leading, personally.
Which is totally fair, but the fact that they're at all comparable is a problem. The top of the line Alfa is roughly the same price as the entry level Maserati, they're in totally different price brackets. And on top of that the Maserati brand focuses on exclusivity and luxury far more than Alfa, so a poor interior is a worse compromise for the target demo. And regardless, Alfa is already mediocre in its own class (not the worst by any means, but definitely nothing better than mid.)
Maserati is fucked.
Their old spot of cheaper than Ferrari has been fully swallowed by Porsche.
And the Corvette owns the cheaper than Porsche market.
Sedans? good luck vs BMW, Cadillac,
They were trying to beat Jaguar in the pivot to sporty luxury EVs, but Stellantis pulled the funding because all they saw were future losses. With the loss of that strategy, at the moment Maserati are totally aimless.
Not at all. Maserati benchmarked them and used the same battery supplier. The specs of the Granturismo Folgore and early Taycan Turbo S are extremely similar. But that was just the start. Maserati intended to become EV only and do it faster than any other brand in that space. They managed to make the first 2+2 sporty electric coupe and convertible, and the MC20 was supposed to be the first electric supercar. They were supposed to be the first brand to have several fun sporty EVs in the premium European segment. But as usual they take too long to develop their cars, the market moves on, and things wither on the vine. In this case it withered even before ripening.
Actually! Something like a modern Alfa 147 GTA could be sweet. Throw the MC20 engine in a Fiat 500, add a gold clock on the dash and boom. 79k msrp let's goooooooo.
There is no need create a niche. To survive they can only do what others do and also offer products in segments that have high demand, All what they have to do is to have more reliable products and improve their brand image. Both things are easier said than done, but there is no other way.
Most car enthusiasts still ignore this, but Porsche is mainly driven volume wise and profit wise by the sales of SUVs. The Porsche Macan was the most sold Porsche model in the US. And by now everybody and their moms should know that Porsche was saved by the introduction of the Cayenne more than 20 years ago. So if you want to succeed, you benchmark your SUV offering in those SUV segments with a Porsche Macan and the Porsche Cayenne and undercut them price wise and with leasing deals. Also more has to be done when it comes to the whole sales and after sales experience.
The "cheaper than Ferrari thing" you mentioned worked when they could advertise that Maseratis were powered by Ferrari engines. So you basically got a Ferrari engine in a car for less money. This all stopped when Maserati officially switched to inhouse engines. This has nothing to do with either Porsche or Mclaran eating away into a pseudo non-existing niche you just made up. The 911 was never a "cheaper than Ferrari" thing. Porsche is Porsche. People who buy a Porsche 911 don't think "Uuuh, I wanted a Ferrari, but the 911 is cheaper, so I buy a 911." That is just not the case. And nobody who wants a Mclaran cross-shops it with a Maserati and vice versa. Mclarans brand shtick is all about beeing technologically advanced and fast. Maserati has never had this "look how advanced our new car is" thing going on. Maseratis were luxury oriented for most of the existence of the brand and were more focused on beeing "easy on the eye", sounding nice and they clearly had not focus to be the fastest car on the track. Mclaran had never that "luxury" thing going on. Mclarans whole brand identity is beeing built upon a car racing team in F1.
Maserati really badly needs a very competitive compact SUV and a bigger SUV (read: Levante successor). that both undercut competitors price wise and also offer longer warranty than their direct competitors.
Apart from a seven or ten year warranty, you need to remind people of older Maseratis that do not suffer from that poor brand image. As I have stated here once: I would start a series on the official Maserati youtube channel and show Maserati owners and their cars. Most ignorant people forget that cars like the Maserati Mistral, Maserati Merak, Khamsin, 3500 GT, the original Ghibli from 60s/70s, MC12 etc. existed.
And beside of two competitive SUVs, Maserati needs a sub 100k USD/EUR sporty coupe that is a true successor to the 3200/4200, which was not all about beeing the fastest car.
Were they even that successful in said old spot? I like the QP and Spyder/Coupe, they kept the brand alive for a while but not sure Maserati really thrived with them.
But yeah, going face to face with the big dogs with badge engineered models is ... ahem .. bold.
> What slot could they even make a niche in?
Proper comfy, elegant and "soulful" grand tourers.
The classic sixties grand tourer concept doesn't exist anymore. Everything everybody makes is either too regal, track-focused or just bulky.
"He's presiding over a turnaround plan that will include driver experiences, auto shows, and a campaign to make sure everybody realizes how affordable an entry-level Maserati can be."
You know, I don't think Maserati is at all affordable, the base Ghibli starts at $110k... idk how that is affordable unless they are planning on making the cars cheaper.
They no longer make Ghibli's. Only the Grecale, Mc20 and GT. Everything else is gone. I work as a technician for the brand, can confirm how shit and overpriced they are.
Not even a few years. Maserati has 0 resale value. Client bought an MC20 Cielo before summer, brought it back to be traded in for another car after summer (approximately 4 months later), it had lost 30% value. Didn't even do 2000 miles on it during that time. Have not seen any major work on them yet. Not many are buying them due to the price.
what’s crazy is that a local Maserati dealer has brand new 2023 model year MC20s listed at their original sticker prices of $260-290k
these cars are 2-3 years old and unsold, how are they going to sell them at MSRP now?
Let’s be real, all cars lose a lot of value off the lot and even more so the higher and more niche you go unless your Ferrari and maybe Porsche. They will generally sit on lots because it’s a small pool of customers
>a campaign to make sure everybody realizes how affordable an entry-level Maserati can be."
The problem for Maserati is that the target demographic is people that Can't afford a Ferrari, but desperately want others to think they can afford a Ferrari
Maserati isn't an aspirational brand. Nobody says to themselves "when I grow up, and I'm rich and successful, I'm going to buy a Maserati".
They stumble drunkenly into a Maserati dealership after the Ferrari dealership tells them to go away.
They buy a Maserati because they want other people to *think* they can afford a Ferrari, since there's just enough dregs of brand recognition left that some people think Maserati is still an Italian supercar.
Nobody that wants to buy a Maserati wants it to be considered affordable by the masses.
My brothers in laws were looking to buy an SUV and since my brother knows cars really well and what to look for they took him along as well. They looked at the Maserati SUV and my brother said that there were so many buttons that were straight out of the Durango and it just felt cheap. They ended up buying an X5 instead.
It was slightly different. I bookmarked this around the time it was originally published and posted on various message boards. The QNX operating system still exists but I am unsure who uses it now.
https://www.apex.one/articles/mygig-the-story-of-an-infotainment-system/
Lots of companies use QNX. It’s one of the most widely used RTOSes in the market for microprocessors. Mainly in industrial / factory automation and automotive.
Thank you for the info. I did search it but a cursory glance made me think it was a different QNX. After reading your post I remembered having seen the name before and it was on Siemens marketing material and other places. I had no idea this was the same OS behind head units. But given your description and what I read about it, is it not more like a low level operating system?
It’s a real time operating system and is used when determinism and timing is important. It can run on application cores or microcontroller cores. Typically it’s run in place of Linux.
I have seen the engine bays. No they are not. Parts are also insanely expensive, you have to have specialized software (which should be illegal). It doesn’t take much to mechanically total a Maserati.
What the fuck are you talking about? I owned a granturismo and never took it to the dealership for anything. Stop believing everything your favorite youtuber says
It was new and it was a 2012. I had it for 4 years. The granturismo doesnt have any standard engine-outs. If it did, they wouldnt be any more difficult than any other engine-out I have done over the years.
Its like any other car. Theres really nothing complicated about it.
What brands exist without expensive specialised software? Even for Volvo the official software (including computer) costs 40k and is only sold to dealerships. Maserati is just not popular enough to have a cracked or freeware version.
Uhhh m539 absolutely hated the Maserati build. It broke multiple times and I believe he couldn't order some parts for it from Maserati. It was not easy.
They doubled the Granturismos price overnight and think they have some kind of Roma competitor on their hands 🤣
As if people that can buy a Ferrari would deliberately choose that thing instead.
This job shouldn't exist. What they need is to throw in the towel.
Maseratis, if for some reason they "need" to exist, should be occasional limited edition models sold at Ferrari dealers. Every 10 years or so they should be like "there's a new Maserati sedan. 500 hundred will be made globally. Order at your Ferrari dealer. If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it."
There would be no Chrysler parts bin shenanigans because they're not trying to sustain a brand and dealer network no one wants.
The article said $70K, and I'd argue that's too affordable for what Maserati want to be. It's going to land them in the same lease Ghibli trap that ruined their reputation.
How come they never tried to make Bentleys's or Rolls's out of Ferrari parts? Instead, it has been Ferraris in a less desirable brand for 25 years and a cheaper sedan.
Beautiful? Mausers have the same body lines as almost every late 2000s through 2010s commuter sedan. Smooth with overly defined wheel well lines that stem from mid body and no unique visual traits. They're generic looking from the shape to the light housings. Maserati's look like what a kid would draw they were told to draw a 2015 Mazda 3.
How about telling the chud in my town who insists on cutting me off when he’s the one that has the stop sign to learn how to drive like a human I have dash cams installed now so that I have evidence of him continually cutting me off so when I decide to T-bone him, it’s definitely his fault. That’s a start.
Yeah good luck with that. When a Giulia with the expanded leather package is just as nice as a Ghibli that costs twice as much and is more reliable, you need to either lower your price or drastically improve the ownership experience. I don’t see Maserati doing either
To be fair the Guilia and the Alfa brand aren’t exactly hot sellers. I think it’s more of a systemic management issue at Stellantis.
I do agree though, the pricing on some Maserati vehicles are absolutely criminal. You pay S Class money a Ghibii when it shares switches with your moms Grand Caravan.
The Grecale is nice, but too expensive as well. Why on earth would I get THST when the German competition can be had for less. A Grecale Trofeo costs 133,000 CAD. Meanwhile the X3 M50 can be had for 80,000. Like I guess the Maserati looks much nicer, but 50k more and it’s guaranteed to be more unreliable.
Honestly, I'm surprised that Alfa sales are as high as they are considering the utter lack of marketing, the amount of dealers trying to not sell you an Alfa, lack of investment and refreshes, and prior reputation
But that only supports your point that Stellantis has a systemic issue
*Giulia
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Funny that you say that, because that's what they are doing. Not by half, but they are cutting their prices. The base price of the base Grecale was reduced in the US from 78k USD to 69k USD. In UK the Grecales price was reduced from 70k £ to 60k £.
Cutting by half is unrealistic. It's not 2005, when the 4200/GranSport did cost around 110k EUR. And you need to still make a profit.
They’re kind of in no man’s land as it is. The kind of person that has enough fuck you money to justify buying a Maserati that will lose 80% of its value in two to three years is just shopping for other, better things.
Their target market is wives who want a different brand than mb bmw to stand out not knowing they are total piles. Then they sell them to wanna be rappers
Yep, get some custom tuned v8 platform from bmw or merc and job's done.
Makes me wonder why they haven't done it already. Or are they trying to be some sort of heritage "in-house" company who make their own engines etc?
The V6 they have now is a modified Alfa Romeo 690T which itself is a reinvisioned Ferrari F154 V8.
So I guess just hot glue two more cylinders on it and be done.
To me, an Italian car just means $500 oil changes and $1500 just to get a dealership to look at the constant problems. Maybe newer cars are better and don't have these problems, but I'm not going to spend 3x more money to find out.
The "passion" and "soul" of the car was really only marketing terms to get people to ignore the financial aspect of ownership.
People want the amazing engine sound when revving the engine, but seem to also be ok if that sound is just from a speaker.
Had the Grecale as a rental recently. Nice exhaust note, otherwise yeah it was a small SUV, nothing to write home about. Felt like a douche rolling up places in it.
Well Maserati’s first off I feel are just douchey intrinsically. I feel like people with taste or any modesty would buy a Porsche for the same money, and I get the impression a lot of buyers wish they owned a Ferrari but can’t afford one.
And I was in Portland, which is struggling and not a particularly wealthy or materialistic city. Driving past homeless people in something so ostentatious feels gross.
I have a 2010 GranTurismo S and I feel the same as him. I’m a young guy (25) and rolling up in that thing to a gas station has people staring and I feel like, as he said, a douche. I think it’s a mix of being a bit shy, being young, and the economy being difficult for a lot of people right now. No one knows I spent less than a new Honda on it, non-car people all instantly think I’m loaded.
Isn't that sound generated using the Maserati Active Sound exhaust note generator?
[https://www.ghibliforum.com/threads/active-exhaust-sound-generator-module.39547/](https://www.ghibliforum.com/threads/active-exhaust-sound-generator-module.39547/)
[https://www.cete-automotive.de/en/maserati-active-sound-maserati-sound-vs-audi-sound/](https://www.cete-automotive.de/en/maserati-active-sound-maserati-sound-vs-audi-sound/)
Sooo......fake.
Their designs are generally very good. Klaus Busse leads one of the best design teams at any manufacturer IMO.
They have the only 2+2 convertible EV in the world and by all accounts it's fun to drive for all of its 5 mile range.
I own a 2005 Spyder, and it's an amazing car. This was before Chrysler so I can't speak to the quality issues today but compare it to a Ferrari 360 its slightly slower and more bloated...its like 90% of the early 2000s Ferrari experience for 10% of the price.
Seriously. Imagine getting that brief. So where do we start, what do we have to offer, where do we win?
Who is buying a new Maserati in 2025? If I had a friend that could afford one and they bought one, I'd be like what are you doing?
Pretty easy to understand. It's a car for people so rich that they don't care that it loses 50% value in depreciation in one year, but with poor enough taste to buy a Maserati instead of something more desirable..
I understand the brand completely. You make ugly cars that age like milk, ugly interiors, shitty fit and finish, no innovation, not remotely reliable or fast enough for anyone to give a shit. And their value to depreciation reaction is nill.
Bye 👋
Maserati keeps telling this, "the brand needs more recognition", "it's a marketing issue", "the brand has potential". And yet at every single presentation they mention other manufacturers, like "if Ferrari can do this why can't we" or "just look at what Aston Martin did".
Reality is: the Granturismo and Grancabrio are overpriced hot garbage nodody with a taste in cars would buy. The Grecale is one of the last BAD cars around in the luxury market, and the MC20 is an uber niche car which probably costs them more to make than they earn selling it (they have a single factory building them, and so far in 2025 they built... 30. Not 300, 30).
They need to sell something people would consider buying, before "explaining what the brand means" or "improving awareness of Maserati's heritage".
At least he isn’t trying to blame the consumers, he acknowledges that the company has to better communicate its products to US customers. In today’s world that basic insight seems to be missing , I just laugh when a product (cars, movies , restaurants etc…) fails and the marketing leads are basically blaming the consumers for not buying it.
You want to understand us, its simple:
Stop being a brand associated with the Ghibli which is universally hated as a "baller on a budget" sports car.
Divorce yourself from FCA/Stellantis entirely and stop using their interior parts and switchgear.
Give us something more exotic and exciting than a typical BMW and Mercedes, you are Italian, act like it and have some national pride.
Want to win extra points? Undercut the German offerings and offer great lease programs and dont stock your dealers with arrogant jackass salesman. There I just solved all your problems and ensured your brand will be the top sales chart hero.
People who couldnt afford a heavily used one circlejerking about how terrible they are because they watched a doug demuro video about the ghibli. Always the same comments from people who have not been within 10 feet of one.
Yeah you're right they're great cars, it's just a conspiracy to keep their sales down. Never driven one but have ridden in one before and it's fair that no one would really consider one compared to the germans
It isnt a conspiracy. Its a reddit circlejerk. They sell like shit for the same reason a lot of good cars sell like shit. The market is just small. Lotus makes good cars and nobody buys them.
The ghibli is for accountants who know nothing about cars to drive to work and show off. Everything else they make is pretty damn good.
Thats because they dont have build capacity. If you think lotus has any history of massive sales, you've lost it.
You're also grossly missing my point. The ariel atom is one of the best driving cars ever sold to the public and it has no orders because the customer base for that thing is small. Tons of good cars do not sell for shit because the customer base is small. Sports cars as a whole sell terribly these days. That isnt any indication of the quality of a car or how nice it is to own and use.
I don't know what Stellantis' obsession is with having the rights to Alfa and Maserati. They're going to spend decades trying to get people to understand what these brands are supposed to be. The simplest solution to this problem is right there: Give these brands to Ferrari. IMMEDIATE problem solved.
I think Maserati is attempting to move in the right direction. The Grecale and revised GranTurismo are pretty impressive in terms of styling and performance and it seems like their interiors are much improved over their older models. There's no getting around how steeply their cars depreciate, but hopefully they can find ways to make their cars more reliable and solid. I would have a GranTurismo or GranCabrio in a heart beat. I hope they can turn things around. I think it would be great if they could make some good offerings around the 60-70k range.
Imagine if Maserati would do things like take the Alfa 4C and give it a NA V6 and manual transmission
Or use the slower and less race inspired ZF8 and manuals of the Italian Drivetrains while making them more serviceable.
1. So what is your brand - Ferrari for people who don't have that much money? That group is pretty thin after trickle down economics decimated the middle class...
2. Or is it repackaged Stellantis products that might as well be a trim level?
Like I don't think anyone at Maserati really can articulate their brand prop so how will customers know?
“We at Maserati have dedicated our lives to answering the automotive worlds biggest questions like ‘how much depreciation is possible for a car in a single year?’ And ‘Is it true that people really will buy anything?’”
> how affordable an entry-level Maserati can be
The new Quattroporte went *down* a segment and is slated to cost 20% more than the outgoing, larger, model.
The new Maserati's are getting *fantastic* reviews. The primary issue is that, price wise, they're a stretch away from Ferrari or McLaren.
Worse still, Maserati's are playing in the same field as Aston Martin, who gives you a reliable, well known and insane V8.
Maserati really needs to bite the bullet and take the trim levels on the GT they have now, replace the V6 with a V8 and keep the pricing the same. Add an entry level model with the V6.
I say this as a *Maserati Owner*. I have the Maserati I have now because it is literally the best sounding V8 on the market. This V8 can be argued as the best V8 to have ever been produced. Both Maserati and Ferrari gave it up, Maserati gave up V8's altogether.
American's don't misunderstand the Maserati brand. Maserati simply can't define it.
I disagree with his sentiment of not making any factories in the U.S. Most people won’t care and if ur trying to get more people to buy it, you should do it. Especially when ur known to be unreliable, expensive to buy and expensive to maintain.
With that being said. If I had the money, I would absolutely buy the MC20 in a heartbeat.
For me, every Maserati I see brings up 2 thoughts:
1. It sounds good. Credit where it's due, the noise they make is pretty nice.
2. You can see the piles of cash melting away as it drives around. Nothing depreciates faster than a Maserati.
At the end of the day if I wanted to take a risk on an Italian car I'd go with an Alfa Romeo.
He isn’t wrong .. everyone who hates Maserati compare it to a Ferrari or similar car when it should be compared to an E class or 5 series and is better than both .
Ghibli was the most fun and complimented car I’ve leased out 7 series , multiple loaded E class , m3 , and my now shitty teslas
I feel there is a slight difference in luxury between a similarly priced 5 series, E class, and Ghibli...
https://imgur.com/a/7GKSPB4
Not to mention the power difference...
577 horsepower for the 5 series and E Class.
424 Hoesepower for the Ghibli...
It's a song lyric that I now see I slightly misquoted. Joe Walsh - Life's been good
My Maserati does 185
I lost my license, now I don't drive
I have a limo, ride in the back
I lock the doors in case I'm attacked
Maserati has never made a car i would buy before at least 5 other options. They've never even been in the conversation. I do understand what they bring to the table: points of brilliance wrapped in weird looking unreliable wrappers. The problem is we do understand the brand, and we don't like it, at least not over superior competition.
They’re not going to slash prices on Maseratis as that actually makes them less desirable to the rich. Their cars are basically just status symbols, so they’re just purely focusing on marketing and penetration. Not much is going to change fundamentally as far as car mechanics and manufacturing quality.
if maserati want to recall the good elements of their brand, they should just become a kit car company and sell replicas of the 250F. with goggles and an open-faced helmet to match, of course
I understand it perfectly well, a Charger with nicer lines and a Ferrari engine. I just don’t want something that’ll be worth 1/10th what I bought it for 3 years later.
There’s a dealer in my area that has a 70K mile ‘18 Ghibli for 12K. I’m thinking about offering 9.5 and using it as a project car😂
Just for fun, since I'm in the market for a luxury sedan, I went and looked at brand new Maseratis. I figured I'd start with the Ghibli. The first car that popped up was $112K MSRP. For a Ghibli with an interior that looks like it came from a Volvo but ten years ago. Much like the Giulia, the products just are not good enough relative to the competition and the prices are downright offensive.
They definitely don't get talked up much, but I'm not really sure what he is expecting, I'd never consider one because the resale value is completely bonkers, there aren't enough dealerships to take them to, and I feel like there are better options options at that price.
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