Get this gun off my range
Yeah no shit dude, you think he wanted it to go off like that? No reason to attack him like he did something wrong . Didn’t even check on anyone. Dickhead
What attack? There was no attack. A gun proved to be too dangerous to have on the range, and he ordered the owner to remove it. As for checking on people... It was a gunshot. If someone had been hit, they'd speak up.
Remember no matter the situation, even if he shot accidentally shot someone in the head, you are not allowed to be abrasive or come off as disrespectful though the occasion calls for it. It’s *RUDE*.
> Remember no matter the situation, even if he accidentally shot someone in the head, you are not allowed to be abrasive or come off as disrespectful
What a load of childish horseshit. You're not allowed to be such a little bitch, but here you are. People can talk to you however they want. You get to decide how to react, but you don't get to dictate how others act.
I didn’t mean physically attack. Maybe you should look up the definition of the word, there’s more than one way to use it. I meant there was no need to talk to that guy in that tone after that accident happened. Let that fake tough guy talk to the wrong one like that, he will get his ass knocked out lol. All good, carry on
This would have rubbed me the wrong way also, talking to him like he’s your son or something. Only in these situations do guys think it’s ok to talk that way.
I can see how you read it that way to be honest, but that’s definitely not the mood or tone I meant it in. I just don’t like that rude, aggressive and commanding tone, and apparently many others see it that way too. Lot of us wouldn’t accept that also.
Especially as a leader, I think he could have handled it better. I think he reacted weak and emotional actually. The way he commanded that man telling him to remove his gun and not bring it back when he almost shot himself (wasn’t even his fault) came off disrespectful, and I would’ve had more words with him at least, if it was someone like me. Wish I could spar with this fuckin guy actually, we would see what a snowflake I am then lol
Soft is kicking another man while he’s down, he’s a pussy for talking to him that! Pls brother, I’m def not the soft one. I would not have handled it this way as a leader/instructor
What did he say, other than your perception of his tone, that could be classified as an "attack." Did he criticize and oppose fiercely? Or did he just give him an instruction...
Tbf it's a gun known to go off in the wrong holsters or in on drops. Instructor was definitely more annoyed at the fact it was being carried and could've potentially taken him or another student out. It's not like the instructor sat there and reprimanded him for 15 mins on why a 320 is a pos carry gun.
Do people you know get shot and then see how long they can stay quiet about that. People *usually* say "I've been shot" and sit (or fall) down after being shot.
I have been involved with people being shot in combat, and once on a training range during a negligent discharge. Both times they had no clue until someone else pointed out the blood. The adrenaline produced by the ND or the combat precludes he pain response in most cases. So to answer your question yes, it is more common to not know you have been shot.
that's because of adrenaline coursing through your veins during a shooting incident. Just standing there chill as the guy starts his talk is not heart-poundingly exciting
Yes, the instructor's initial reaction wasn't for the potential harm an accidental discharge could have done. It was more of being annoyed that he was interrupted. Granted, I have no idea what was said before or after the incident. All I know was that the well-being of the student wasn't this instructor's initial reaction.
Probably more of a mad at the situation and could have ended in a huge deal if it hit someone. I definitely agree he sounded like an asshole but having met him (not during one of his classes) he’s a good dude.
To be fair, any range officer/instructor is going to be PISSED when dealing with an ND, usually for good reason. The aftermath at worst can be sleep losing nightmare inducing gore, at best it’s paperwork and the knowledge you can’t trust that person fully with their gun. If I found the ND was caused by the publicly-documented ND machine, the only model of modern carry pistol to consistently do this, then I don’t care what you paid for it, I’m doing my checks with no added love maybe some removed and telling you to get the fuck out. It’s almost deliberately endangering to others around you, at the very least highly negligent, especially on a mobility range.
>To be fair, any range officer/instructor is going to be PISSED when dealing with an ND, usually for good reason.
If a guy can't control his emotions like a kid he shouldn't be an instructor to begin with, no matter the macho bravado it's lacking emotion regulation.
Yeah man unless you’ve watched someone explode their own face from stupidity at a close distance, I don’t think you have the right to judge how an RSO reacts to safety breaches. Being on a public range is a privilege, one that asks users to be responsible for themselves because they can seriously hurt everyone around them if they aren’t careful. If you don’t take that seriously enough to research if your gun has a habit of shooting you in the ass randomly, you haven’t done your due diligence as to be trusted on a private range, sorry.
And there's zero reason for that to be the case. LGS owners should be aware and making the case to prospective buyers, prospective buyers should be reading reviews, *AND TEST FIRING* but that doesn't hardly say a whole lot about the 320. Friends should be telling their friends not to buy these ND machines, etc.
Maybe I'm the outlier. Whenever I come close to even considering a prospective product as a first time owner from a given brand... I'm reading every review and watching every video that I can get my hands on. Some may argue that that's a bit of a high bar to set for first time owners, but really - the severity of the matter and potential consequences should have a lot of thought given. You're picking out an implement that you have minimal familiarization with, and you're going to (at minimum) take that implement and carry it on your person every day (ideally) and trust that tool to do exactly what you would expect of it, should - God Forbid - the circumstances arise.
To do any less is a disservice to yourself, your life, and your loved ones.
1) You do not see evidence one way or the other in the video.
2) Again, only current model on the market documented to do this with any frequency. Even Glock leg wasn’t this bad. If your choice of model is the difference between a random shot flying vs not, then yeah you choosing that gun for the class is easily arguable as an ND.
Ya its called clearing the firearm. Apart of that is removing its feed source (loaded or unloaded mag) the firearm has proven its not save so who cares if he tossed the mag away
Oh my god you guys are so goddamn sensitive about a mag falling on the goddamn ground. The farther away you keep a round the way from the chamber the better.
Looks like some of you have never taken a class because your mags will hit the dirty ground. You guys are a bunch of Barbies
Guess none of these people downvoting you have served or have done actual training.
Freaking out about an attentive instructor making the firearm immediately safe by dropping the mag, good lord lol
The guy wasn't bullied, and now he realizes the severity of what happened. Some ROs would just send you home on principle, regardless of whether it was user error or a mechanical failure.
The range is safe, everyone goes on with their training.
Professional would be to immediately check if anyone is hit! Not scolding some guy with a potential GSW to get his stuff off the range wtf. The guy failed when things went a little wrong and he’s supposed to be teaching me? Yeah no
When your around NDs and ADs on a semi regular basis hes nit gonna run unless he KNOWS somebody is hit. If somebody was hit it wouldve been seen or they wouldve spoken up then they would handle that accordingly. He didnt fail either. If a firearm is having issues on the scale the 320 is currently having, then telling him to get that firearm off the range is the smart thing to do for the safety of the instructor, the operator and others at the range.
Everyone would have known before the dude finished his sentence if 320 guy wasn't okay. People shot down their leg or in the foot tend to react pretty quickly.
I don't think he was an asshole at all. Clearly just upset by a near miss due to a mechanically unsafe firearm.
Caveat: I'm not a fan of Sig, or the 320.
That out of the way.. I think this could be fake. You can't see anything happen. Trainee has it out of the holster by the time the instructor and the camera man show up to that side of the line.
Before even arriving on that side of the line, instructor immediately asks if it's a 320, then takes it from the trainee and clears it... leaving the magazine laying on the ground. Kicks the guy off the range while being a macho asshole about it, never even asks if anybody is hurt.
At the very least give the guy his fuckin magazine back.
_Modern Sig sucks. This "instructor" also sucks. I find this video proves nothing beyond the fact that this guy is a raging erect penis._
He literally pauses and turns his head toward the guy before the shot even fires.
"Is that a fuckin 320?"
"Yep!"
It's literally scripted. The most obvious hit piece I've ever seen. Complete with people in the comments claiming to have been there
>Trainee has it out of the holster by the time the instructor and the camera man show up
I can see unholstering his gun as an instinctive reaction to his gun going off in holster
Yeah, God forbid he get something potentially dangerous off the firing line first before he worries about someone's feelings getting hurt. Sure, he could've asked about anyone being injured, but you're more concerned that the instructor was mean. I hope you enjoy your next outing at the range. Don't forget your comfort blanket or you might have a panic attack when you screw something up and the range master yells at you. Just make sure to tell him you're sensitive so he knows to yell with compassion.
Glad he seems to be ok. Get that shit off the range before it kills somebody. He can have his mag back when there's not a concern he's a moron who's immediately gonna load it back into the gun.
A lot of sensitive people in these comments are crying about it. Almost any instructor would do the same for an ND on their range, especially for a gun known for repeat NDs. And as for asking if everyone was OK, clearly they were cause nobody was going "Oh fuck! It got me!" Or bleeding from any wounds.
Yeah you're right dude, a cleared P320 with the slide locked back is still dangerous enough that it should be put in a lead lined safe and buried at least 6 feet deep in dirt. Only then can we make sure no one is bleeding out.
As the video cuts out, the instructor is looking down at the mag he dropped.
You don't see the part where he picks it up and yeets it at the back of the student's head.
So that’s actually me in the blue shirt at about 7 seconds in. Dude was just in the holster, hands nowhere near his gun and pop! Gun went off. Pretty wild. I actually thought it was the dude next to him who had an ND since he was using like a Condor drop leg and some POS pistol and he was constantly begging reprimanded about his weapons handling all day.
I know this is really off the wall but I was actually curious to hear what that the model was of the POS pistol that wasn’t involved with the ND, if you recall.
I’ll be honest, I couldn’t tell you the exact model. It was a DA/SA or DAO of some flavor. Looked like it hadn’t seen a cleaning brush since the previous decade. All I know is every time I looked over, Rick or Shane was having to correct him over some basic gun handling stuff like looking to gun into the holster or being aware of where his trigger finger was when not on target…something that a person taking this type of class should not have to be told, let alone multiple times
All good, I was just curious given your description of the person and their holster. As in, “who is the person who has these traits and this gear but also good enough sense to go pay for a class? What do they shoot?
Thanks for sharing.
Cool, did anyone bother to get any info on the gun?
Is it new, old , year of manufacturing?
Modified ? Bone stock?
Or are we just gonna stick with Sig bad.
( not that it was your job to get this info, but with how fast everyone is to shit all over Sig nowadays, some actual info would be nice)
At some rate….. this has happened enough times that’s it doesn’t get written off as happenstance in my mind. I now tell friends to absolutely not buy an sig when asked. The lack of ownership is unbelievable from a “high tier” gun company. Nope. No thanks. No sig pistols for me, at the very minimum. I also won’t shoot with friends that take them to MY shooting days I organize. I tell people not to bring them, same reason this instructor tells him to get it off his range. Unsafe gun.
Probably only around 2000 rounds down the pipe from a 226, a few hundred in various 365’s a few hundred through a 718, and a few hundred through a 320.
I’d probably buy a 226, as it was a wonderful full sized handgun, but I don’t really love supporting a company that says “oh there’s nothing wrong with a pistol that repeatedly shoots on its own, but there’s a voluntary upgrade program to make sure that exact scenario doesn’t happen”
That’s not ownership, that’s a cop out of liability, I presume so they don’t get sued into oblivion+ lose ongoing military contracts that are worth more money than lives are. It’s not cool.
Great for you. I’ve seen enough happenstance to think that there can be some credibility in there.
Plus…. A sig supplied program called “voluntary upgrade” which replaces parts of the trigger and slide.
An upgrade that sig made available after all the bad press of people potentially having problems.
So… again…. This is a situation where sig said “don’t worry everyone there’s 100% nothing wrong, it’s safe!!! Also, if you want us to change out the ‘less safe’ original design we will for free!!! How great of us!! But also, it’s totally safe!!”
Is that not… kind of suspect?? Is that a gun I want pointed at my leg? No, and anyone who carries one, is in my mind, an idiot,
All firearms, especially new models can have issues. 15 years ago, when Glock got into LE contracts, they were cracking guide rods left and right, guns were failing. They still have that issue, especially with over pressured ammo like in LE. They never accepted a ton of responsibility, but changed them out at their cost, just like SIG is now. Should we completely discard Glocks?
Not defending sig or that guy, but the guy with the 320 is like 4 guys down from you how would you have known if he was fiddling around with the gun or not? Much less if it was properly holstered? Guarantee your eyes were on the instructor who was clearly in the middle of talking/demonstrating when the gun went off
I talked to the guy standing right next to him, the 2 RSOs behind the line, and the AI and they all said the same thing. Gun was in holster (since we weren’t shooting at the time anyway) and his hands weren’t touching the gun
Are people really such basement dwellers that they’re doubting the possibility of someone paying money for a class and taking it?
It’s not like this was some ultra exclusive event or something lol
Obviously, it's gross negligence on the user's fault and not SIG's shitt-I mean, perfect design! lol all jokes aside, after SIG's public freakout and lack of accountability, I'll not buy another gun from them. My Rattler was the last.
Genuinely I was planning to get a 210 226 and a 229 but now while they would probably be fine I don’t have the money spare on a gun that would “ probably “ be “fine”
365 x macro with a shorty grip module, daily carry, I’ve put about 2600 through it and I could not be happier with the performance in such a small form factor.
Been a Glock guy my whole life, but I have no problem saying that the 365 is just simply the best striker fired concealed carry platform.
Salesman at my lgs says he loves his X. I got tiny mitts so that makes me lean more towards the 365. The salesman also could probably palm a basketball. His hands were way larger than mine lol
Grip modules can be had for so cheap, just buy the best deal and then decide.
I got an X with R0, fits great, might grab a WC later but I don’t carry it.
The 320 is a striker fired adaptation of the p250 and made some compromises because of that. Clean sheet designs are always better in my mind, it's the same situation with the 737-max compared to the 787.
I mean it's too big to conceal carry, doesn't have a threaded barrel, is very expensive for what it is, etc. I have a 365, a fuse and a 322 from sig. The fuse is the only gun i have ever regretted buying.
If you have little hands its okay I guess. I needed a new 9mm for concealed carry and checked out all the 365 models expecting at least one to impress me. I had my mind set on 365 for a while. Standard model felt funny in my hands & I dont know why people say it has a great trigger. Didn't feel so great to me imo. I shot the XL and found it to be a major improvement in all departments but still didn't feel like the quality Sig has been known for. I took a look at all compact pistols under $1,000 without any bias walking in, shot a little bit of everything, judged the fit and finish of each, and I walked away with a Hellcat Pro SS(stainless). I'm sure many would argue there are nicer better shooting compacts, but it is a preference thing so grain of salt here. I just found the Hellcat Pros overall dimensions, feel in the hand, and the stainless slide with excellent U-dot w/tritium front sight add up to a fine piece worthy of concealed carry but also look damn nice. Its actually a decent range gun too, I enjoy shooting it more then the 365, little extra weight but well balanced. Out the box its a little stiff but after cycling it a bunch at my desk everything is easy smooth & leaves me confident with its build quality. Also the 365 has no slots in its accessory rail so I assume it requires proprietary lights/lasers. Not a big issue but does limit options if you happen to have one laying around.
First time I've ever heard/seen 365s associated with 'great' triggers, assuming your basic bitch versions. The pricier ones and custom triggers I've tried are better to very good, but that's standard fare for upgrades...
I expected the Rose model to be better with its upgraded trigger but it really wasn't. Long travel, funny angle, sticking out more then halfway into the guard, felt like the trigger on an old red ryder or a rubber band gun..
Ok cool! Thank you for your insight as well. I do have lil kitty cat paws, and I like the way my G26 clone fits in my hand. But the aftermarket add ons kinda do help drive my decisions. Especially a WML. I have a friend with a Hellcat and they praise it to high hell. I’ll have to go and try to see if I can rent them out at the range to see how they feel. I’ll ask my hellcat Bud to come with me. lol
Thank you again, greatly appreciate you.
Kitty cat paws are small but fierce, and seem to get a grasp on everything they aren't supposed to lol. I have medium sized hands but major arthritis & nerve damage in both so I'm pretty picky about grip shape & slide grip/spring strength. In the store I actually found it hard to rack the slides on most new guns but handle all kinds of weapons of my own just fine, I think guns on the shelf are just not broken in or oiled, just assembly & machining fluids I guess. I prefer grip panels I can replace, gives me so many options down the road, but apparently removable panels are old school and likely add costs to manufacturing. So I found many polymer framed pistols sort of awkward, at least the 365 you can replace the entire lower frame with all sorts of different options, so there is that. I somehow dont justify buying a complete pistol then replacing the frame yet will happily do the same for any rifle I purchase, but I mean, who does like factory stocks anyway.
Anyway something about the Hellcat Pro grip shape and texture just feels right in my hands, just thick enough, good grooves not too pronounced, and the grip texture is really effective compared to other guns. the little pyramids give a solid grip but aren't uncomfy at all. Somehow they made a polymer frame that eliminates the sensation of holding hard plastic. Its not glock shaped but I would compare it to the feeling of holding a Gen3 glock with finger grooves or the p80s but more petite. I'm not even a huge fan of the Hellcat, I really just wanted something modern, quality, effective and comfortable. The 15-17rnd capacity in a compact was just an awesome plus. I wasn't excited about any of the new compacts but once I brought it home I feel very confident and satisfied with my choice. Already put some nice laser engraved gold and silver accents on it.
Oh and if you purchase a hellcat before april 31st you get a promo from Springfield, three extra magazines, a Crimson Trace or Viridian green dot optic, and a little range bag. Mags are expensive and a free optic even if not top of the line is a sweet deal, I dont see other brands throwing out killer promos like that. Just worth mentioning I think
365 are fine *now* but they're on like gen4/5 because they kept having issues. Strikers broke so they made them thicker, then mags were dropping during firing, then sights were falling off, then strikers were breaking again and they completely redesigned them...
I will never buy a new model sig, they use the public as an open beta test.
I don't. Fuck them. And fuck their CEO. Ron Cohen was the name that ran Kimber into the ground about a decade ago and now he's doing the same to what was once a solid, trusted, reputable company. If they don't get rid of that cunt, they've no reason to deserve a recovery.
While that's very true, and I would love to own a 226 (currently carry a 365xl), I refuse to give Sig another dollar of my money based on their insane gaslighting instead of fixing the problem.
At this point it’s the principle of the thing. Why would I support a company who values their reputation for their government contracts over their customers’ safety? Why would I want to support a company that says I shouldn’t believe my lying eyes, and anyone who reports such a problem must be an anti gun liberal or a clout chasing social media rabble rouser?
If Sig owned this, and did the right thing by owners instead of settling lawsuits and hiding behind NDAs, I’d be more inclined to support their other products with a proven track record. Until then, I think they can go snort a line of flaccid cocks.
It's not about whether or not their other models are good to go, it's about whether or not Sig would have your back if any of their guns injured you or someone else due to a flaw.
No issues with 226, 229 and 210. All 3 have a very respectable reliability and safety record spanning decades of military and civilian use. I will say that Sig is not the greatness it once was though.
Correction; *Swiss and German built* 210, 226 and 229 have a respectable record.
Sig Sauer Inc., i.e. US-Sig, has essentially built two things: cheapened versions of European designs and turds.
[Arex's clone is *far* more hardy against dirt and whatnot and cheaper. 🤷♀️](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuPOqDlaX6U)
Supporting Sig at all is the wrong play these days, IMO. If they'd just admitted the P320 was fucked and set about fixing it, I wouldn't care. But that they're going to such lengths to blame everyone but themselves means they're not a serious company anymore. They only care about money and can't be trusted. All Sig products, even the ones that aren't fucked, should be boycotted as far as I'm concerned.
The zero one isn’t *quite* a clone of the 226. It’s one step removed and based on something else that’s an adaptation of the 226. It also has essentially 0 aftermarket and no safariland support.
I’m in the fuck sig camp at the moment myself though, don’t get me wrong.
I couldn't even bring myself to buy a 4XT Pro even though it's an excellent sight because I didn't want to give Sig any of my money after that shitshow
I gunna need someone to fill me in. I know there was big reliability issues when the 365 first came out, but I don't know about any new drama since then.
I wont touch absolutely anything Sig related. It’s how much i have lost any and all trust in them. Especially when you want us to pay a premium and some of your QC is hot garbage. Yeah, hard pass. Frustrating because i fucking LOVE the XMacro….
I *really* like the idea of a modular pistol platform, and was planning on adding a p365 to my CCW stable.
Unfortunately, I just don't want to support Sig after how they're handling this. Now I'm waiting for another "CA compliant" modular pistol platform to come to market.
Manual safety does not stop this. The manual safety blocks the trigger. A faulty gun doesn't need the trigger to be pulled for it to fire.
Army found something like 2 percent of their guns had a nonfunctional striker safety upon their first maintenance. Shoddy design allows this internal block to fail due to the spring getting tangled with the striker spring.
\>99% of 320 will never do this, even if the striker block happens to get entangled. Because the sear works properly. It's that 0.2% that matters, because the fired bullet can still do 100% damage.
The first recall of the M17 was for the heavy trigger causing the gun to fire when dropped on the back of the slide at 30 degrees. There should therefore by no M17's with that original heavy trigger. There could still be some P320's with this dangerous trigger.
I don't believe SIG has ever found a way to fix the striker block from randomly failing.
I find it hard to believe, but I read that at some point they even stopped installing the striker block spring at all. And they added a second notch on the striker tab to hopefully catch the striker if it slips. This is like putting a bandaid on a bandaid.
I use a 320 and it never has done this. Idk how it hasn't. But funny enough every time I see these videos about a 320 going off, I always see the guys shirt untucked. I always have mine tucked it no matter what im shooting. So it may be that, idk.
If there is a design flaw that is a result of bad tolerances stacking up. Meaning two parts out of spec + maybe some serious fouling… then it is quite possible that this only happens rarely.
If 10 in 5000 pistols have a defect, but most of those are safe queens, then maybe only 1 in 5000 experiences the issue.
The videos I’ve seen recently about how the sear can be caused to move and somehow the striker is bypassing the safety lend credence that there is a design flaw.
Heck, my Takata airbag hadn’t killed me, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a design flaw.
It's a normal human behavior to want to collectively validate each other's opinions of something we found funny or interesting. That's why two people can talk about stuff like shared interests that they both know but still enjoy discussing. You're the one acting out redditor stereotypes rn
Some of these comments are fucking wild man god damn snowflakes for a gun sub. This shit has to either be bots or P320 owners. Fuck your opinion and garbage perspective dude handled this shit fine if anyone was shot it would have been well known immediately and had all hands on deck to address it.
I have no stock in Sig, I don't work for them, I don't care one way or another. But I don't find this video to be a smoking gun, as it were.
The instructor posted on IG he witnessed it first hand, but watch the video. He's not even near the guy or facing his direction. He storms over and the shooter hands over his gun, already out of the holster. And then the instructor clears it and, without even asking details, orders him off the range?
Go ahead downvote me, but I'm banned from r/sigsauer wnd r/p320 for wanting to have honest discussion about facts and evidence without immediately defending the P320 OR immediately claiming malfunction.
Why would you not have an armorer immediately inspect the gun? Immediately question the state of the gun, the holster, where the guy's hands where, etc? Why not question the people standing around him? Was it truly just sitting in the holster stationary and then went off? Would the internals not clearly show something that allowed multiple safeties to fail? Why can't anyone reproduce this in a testing environment?
And slow the video down. The RSO, if that's what you want to call him, doesn't even flinch. Is he even paying attention? Why are half the people on the line not even wearing belts? Why are they wearing hoodies and loose clothing? What kind of unprofessional shit show is this class?
A guy posted on this video in another sub saying he was there and he thought it was a different guy initially because that guy was constantly being berated for his weapon handling. How do you not kick someone off the line for poor handling?
Well i guess you can like judge the guy who is not handling firearms correctly and be like “hey straighten up your being unsafe and will be removed if not” and when people pay for classes they generally listen when money is on the line but when the gun malfunctions its a proven issue.
Yeah, I'm not military so I don't understand the reference, but the instructor's handling of the incident immediately makes me have zero interest in ever attending a course of his. It was rather immature in my opinion and beyond that disrespectful. If he has such disdain for the p320, why allow it on the range to begin with? Before he even knew what happened, he yelled "was that a 320?" Talk about jumping to conclusions.
I want to be clear I'm not saying the 320 is not flawed, I don't know. But thousands of people have reported UFOs over the past 75 years. Does that mean every light in the sky is a UFO? I think not. If someone's argument here is "of course this went off on its own, how many reports do you need before you believe it?" that ends the conversation for me. I want facts, not conclusions based on "everyone is saying it so it must be true."
Also, I looked at his bio on his website. A "decade" of combined military and leo experience isn't exactly a brag in firearms instruction. Yes, I see he was a marine sniper and did three tours. I honestly thank him for his service and respect his ability to get to that skill level. And I'm sure he is a phenomenal marksman. But I know a lot of excellent shooters. That doesn't make them excellent teachers.
And now I'm way off topic lol. Sorry.
Every video I see of these dudes, they're running absolute race guns so their IG videos look epic when they transition targets with zero muzzle flip and nearly impossible accuracy that you're not getting out of a ccw piece.
Give an E4 stripes and they think they run the world. Former Army vet, I get that other branches/militaries treat Corporals differently. It's just my experience. Definitely E4 syndrome on the instructors part.
Yeah I don’t own nor intend on buying a 320 and could care less either way but for everyone claiming “proof” I have yet to see any other than eyewitness reports or videos of people holstering/unholstering and firing which is far from telling. Last one I saw was a guy using one of those shitty serpa finger tab holsters that anyone with half a brain cell knows is dangerous.
Wild how polarized everyone is over this.
If you're referring to the video Ben Stoeger posted, it wasn't the holster. The shooter had his finger on the trigger and tried to holster it. His finger got crushed between the trigger and the holster. Straight up negligence.
No this was a recent one posted on Reddit. You can see the tab on the holster pop out as it snags the trigger when he puts the gun pack in. Was 100% the holster caused it during reholster but OP claimed “sig goes off in its holster.”
On that one at least the commenters noticed and gave OP shit over it. This thread has been wild, you can’t even see the incident in question.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's the one I'm talking about. Asian dude shooting 3-gun right? An IWI holster? You can see the tab on the holster popping out, yes, but slowed down you can see his trigger finger never the left the trigger until after the discharge. It was posted like a month ago on IG and here.
You can’s say whether or not the instructor was able to first hand observe the discharge from this video. To say that he *couldn’t* have seen it is disingenuous.
You can argue that, but you can see his position relative to the shooter on the video. The shooter's holster is on his 3 oclock and the instructor is at his 10 oclock. And he's not facing the shooter when the gun discharges. I think it's disingenuous for him to claim he "witnessed" it. But we can disagree.
10:00 or 10:30 looking back at 3:00 *could* easily see whether or not the hand was on the gun, especially if you’re a range master and looking for such.
No one has to give two shits to what I am about to say, but I will give you my personal, real-world experience with SIG. I've owned and carried Sig handguns daily for almost 30 years. I have well over 10 thousand combined rounds through a SIG 226, a SIG 220, and now a SIG 320. I have worn the guns in leather duty, kydex, and tactical holsters. I have been around other shooters hundreds of times shooting different SIG platforms (226/228/220/320) and I have been around very experienced shooters, casual shooters and shitty shooters. I have NEVER once seen or had or heard of an actual malfunction of any of the SIG guns being carried.
Some of the shooters are very skilled, gone through a lot of training cycles with the guns and put them through the paces, 500-600 rounds over 3 days, shooting in all kinds of positions and situations. Some of the shooters ONLY shoot the few times a year they need to qualify. NEVER once an actual malfunction.
MANY people.. including those who 'wear' one for work, do not maintain their equipment correctly. Many people may have their daily holster set up a certain way, but you transition them to tactical gear for training and they aren't as familiar with the gear because they don't use it except for training. People are cheap and they buy cheap gear, instead of the recommended gear, and the don't care about the preciseness of the fit.
I have been shooting/training/teaching firearms for tactical use for almost 30 years. It's the shooters.. it's going to almost always 99% of the team be the shooter. How they put it in/take it out of the holster, the wrong holster for their model, not putting a light on the gun, but having a holster for a light with a gun. Cheap or poorly fitting gear that snags, draps, catches, etc. Or, it's their big fat fingers getting in the way of things.
As an owner of a P938 for the last 6 years that has been reliable & safe I really just can't even wrap my head around the levels of shenaniganry that Sig corporate are trying to use to justify that the P320 is safe and reliable.
There's just entirely too many videos of randomly firing P320's to even try and say it's an isolated occurrence. It's absolutely a dangerous design failure that's incredibly easy to find examples of in action and Sig's leadership has decided that instead of admitting it's flawed and actually doing the right thing, they're attempting to cover it up/shift blame so they're not legally held liable.
THIS IS WHAT THE US GOVERNMENT IS ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO BE HERE FOR, protecting the citizens from dangerous products. Instead, the people in charge of the agencies tasked to do so are protecting who paid them to. LOBBYISTS & LAWYERS.
Rick Crawley, but he is actually a great instructor. I can see why people are upset about his reaction, but he is a very genuine guy. His firearm skills and knowledge are top tier too.
I get that just saying there’s a reason why the guy is so successful. I know it’s subjective, but I mean him and his training group might be the best around and that’s just the truth. He def should’ve asked if everyone was ok before securing the gun and getting rid of it. However, after all I’m sure a ND will shake up just about anyone and make them act slightly out of character especially when you’re actively training 20 plus students.
Doesn’t suck. I think people don’t understand the trigger. Or haven’t shot revolvers enough to be used to a heavy pull. To me, it’s smooth and easy. I own a 9mm compact P250.
I have a 22 and a 45 conversion. The 22 is super rattly and overbite. The 45 is surprisingly nice and smooth, but I wouldn't have picked it over the top dogs in the 45 market.
I thought about getting a 45 cal one but I don’t shoot 45 a lot. When I do it’s a 1911.
I just got a dry firing cartridge that I’ll be using with my P250 a lot and my M&P 2.0. Maybe my Glock G19 too.
I totally forgot that I can use my P250 for dry fire practice. Thanks for the reminder. I recently tried finding a chassis for it like a Flux Raider but I don't think there is anything for the 45. Maybe a Strike Industries SMC for the 22. (That would work for your 9mm though.)
Here is a link to a YouTube channel that post some dry fire simulator targets. I have not tried them out yet but it seems fun to see how and where you are hitting at moving targets. Just cast it to your TV. It won’t give feedback but you’ll see where you are hitting.
You are welcome. I went with a bunch of snap caps and a laser cartridge from G Sight. I got the Gen II G Sight because it was cheaper and I want to try it out before buying something more expensive. The chassis that say P320 may not work. The P250 slide is thicker. I’m finding that out with holsters.
Doesn’t bother to ask the question; “Is everyone okay, is the shooter okay?”
“Get this gun off the range, don’t bring it back on the range.”
Priceless.
IMHO this is when someone should.
This is not an "I'm sorry little snowflake, did you little gunny go off by its self", this is a GTFO moment.
Instructors have been called out by the anti side already and even if not their rep is still on the line. I remember when I had a class and it was in the sign up agreement that basically if i did something stupid i was kicked out, no questions asked, no refunds.
the guy bought one of THE most popular handguns in the country; yes among us terminally online gun autists it's common knowledge that they have dangerous problems. For your average gun owner, them buying an industry standard pistol and then seeking training is exactly what you want to see. This guy didn't do anything wrong and could have potentially been injured.
The trainer was a douche and that's unfortunately common in the field.
Didn't ask if everyone was ok, didn't ask what happened, just condescendingly barking orders after throwing the guys magazine
And what did he do that was stupid? If the gun went off in his holster like this is claiming then that's 100 percent not his fault
I don't know man, as a medic in the Army, paramedic and a big city, and I'm now a Leo, you'd be surprised what shock can do. I've seen people dazed and non reactionary to pretty crazy stuff.
Always be a decent person and just check, never automatically assume your guys are just ok.
Adrenaline's a hell of a drug. I would tell him to check himself first. Like, a simple "you good?" It's not that hard. It takes a little time for blood to start flowing in earnest unless you hit a real spurty artery like the femoral.
If you’ve ever been in front of a firing line and all of a sudden a gun goes off unexpectedly, sometimes you just say shit. It’s kind of unnerving
The dude was immediately pulled off the line and assessed by the AI for injuries. The bullet grazed his boot but missed his foot. He was extremely lucky
I’m saying this from personal experience with an M17 in an issued holster doesn’t keep the safety on; on multiple occasions I have found that my M17 and others the safety was disengaged when they were prior set to safe, (arms room, in the field, range when shooting even) I love older sig designs hell the M17’s grip module was great in my hands but god that thing sucks every time I had it I wish I got an M4 instead.
From personal experience carrying the M17 on duty in the issued tan Safariland, the safety doesn't magically disengage.
The holster covers the safety sufficiently to prevent it from being manipulated while holstered. When drawing the weapon, the position of the ALS lever makes it easy for your thumb to inadvertantly sweep the safety off as the ALS is defeated.
The M17 safety is sufficiently stiff to prevent it from disengaging without a person or an object manipulating it. No way the safety was disengaging by itself "in the arms room."
Either the user swept the safety without noticing, or the M17 had not been set to safe prior to use.
There seems to be problems with the P320 family, but this is not one of them.
I agree that with the ALS it can be accidentally manipulated to the fire position however, the cause could be more environmental after some more thought on it. My unit, 1 AD, typically trains in the desert and sand plus clp don’t mix well together which could cause issues with the safety not engaging correctly. Secondly, my section worked with M113 Ambulances which use chains to keep stretchers up and tended to catch the holster right at the safety. And finally specifically with my M17 I took really good care of it but it always had a hair trigger on the safety compared to the other M17’s which could be from my maintenance on it or a defect on my specific M17.
I just wanted to give my 2 pennies on the P320/M17 situation as I didn’t really like the sidearm due to the issues I had with it both professionally and personally. (Also just to point out that the gun comes with both a slot for optics and a rail system for lights yet issued with neither and liable for the personal items like that to get stolen. Thanks army)
I carried a M17 every day on deployment with the issued Safariland MHHC, along with my M4. Went outside the wire a lot, and even when we came back covered in sand and moon dust the safety never disengaged by itself. I also have a Safariland 7TS series that WILL disengage the safety when the thumb lever is pressed, when using the stock M17 grip (medium). That same holster will NOT disengage the safety when using a Wilson Combat grip. Comparing it to the 7TS series, the MHHC seems to be a bit wider around where the safety is so the thumb lever has no chance of touching it. Could be holster and grip module dependent. Just my two cents.
That is a fair point in regards to the holster, like I said to the other commenter I think it could have been an issue with my particular sidearm as he stated that his was stiff and had an audible sound when engaging the safety as with my sidearm not only was it very sensitive to my handling it but would on occasion not give me any audible feed back which was a concern for me to that end but never really thought about it till now.
You're definitely not wrong. I've seen other M17s within the platoon have very mushy safeties. My personal M17 has an audible click but much more play compared to the M17 I was issued, which undoubtedly is older and has a much higher round count. It's unfortunate the tolerances are like that but don't really got a choice, have to train with what we fight with.
All reasonable clarifications, thanks for expanding on your previous comment.
My experience with the M17 occurred while stationed in the desert as well, (NTC). I didn't encounter the issues you did, but everything you mentioned I can see happening in those particular circumstances.
I doubt an easily disengaged safety was a result of maintenance. Clean or dirty, brand new or chewed up, the M17s I handled all had about the same function of the safety lever. Pretty stiff, with an audible click when engaging or disengaging. I'd say yours was indeed defective in some way.
I never personally saw the adopted light/laser or optic in use, or even in our arms room.
Yeah I thought about adding a MRD and light to my sidearm because they are nice to have but unfortunately I would had to buy a holster to accommodate it and they were liable to be taken.
Supposedly, another Safariland holster was adopted that fits the PAIL light/laser. I never saw one of them either. The best part is that holster that supports the PAIL doesn't support an optic!
But I think we all suspected a "modular" handgun wasn't going to be used in a modular fashion within the Big Army. Our arms room didn't even have the different grip frame size replacements. Everything was just the medium frame.
Granted, I can't find the reference right now, but I recall reading one incident where someone had a thumb safety p320 with the safety engaged, disengaged it and it immediately discharged without trigger pull. Allegedly. Which would be just almost as bad to my mind, what with the safety potentially becoming the new trigger. Allegedly.
The US Army went with the lowest bidder. Sig undercut Glock to win the contract so that they could use it in marketing the guns to civilians, which is where the real margins are.
Idk what more you can do then having eyewitnesses and video evidence. It’s a safety hazard his job is to keep people safe not reverse engineer a piece of shit.
I took a shotgun class a few years back, and an 870 with a Surefire foreend had a double action bar failure.
Beyond rendering the gun safe, it still derailed the class for at least 10 minutes, because it provided a spontaneous opportunity to learn new things (e.g. what actually failed, things we should keep an eye on, places we should be sure to keep an eye on, etc.).
I’d expect any competent instructor to do similar in the situation that the video above purports to show—if it really went off in the holster, unload and see if you can reproduce the issue. If you can, show the relevant equipment and how to replicate the issue.
We don't have video evidence. We don't know what was going on with the gun or the shooter when it went off. He's out of frame. We probably don't have eye witnesses either, as everyone was likely paying attention to the instructor, not staring at P320 dude's holster.
If 320 dude wants to hop into some lawsuit, he's gonna wish he had documented the hell out of this.
You keep pretending like document means something. Write a note that the gun did a thing, or hear me out the guys next to him would have been looking that way since the instructor was there… so I guess use eye witnesses and the video as evidence since filming a loaded gun and waiting for it to go off isn’t practical.
You keep the camera rolling and show the gun in its holster. Show that it's fully seated and there aren't any foreign objects in there that could have touched the trigger. Show that the holster fully covers the trigger so the shooter couldn't have finger fucked it. Remove the gun from the holster on camera and clear it, assumedly ejecting a spent case or having a jam, demonstrating that it didn't cycle/eject properly because it was in a holster.
From this video for all we know the shooter had the gun in his hand and shot into the dirt. It doesn't show anything.
Could have easily been the guy fucking with it and having a traditional ND, but "Damn 320, must be the gun's fault!" Not that it couldn't be the guns fault, but it also could have been the shooter. We don't have any clue what the shooter was doing when it went off.
I do think it's odd that these are always with duty/range holsters. I'm not aware of any "uncommanded discharges" with concealed holsters. I'm also not aware of any that happened while the owner was like driving and hit a bump or anything like that. You'd think if this was something that could just happen randomly at the slightest movement it would be happening in all sorts of circumstances. The only one that I'm aware of that wasn't in a duty holster was one being carried by a detective in a holster in her purse.
I'd also like to see the issue reproduced with a gun where its already happened once.
How do you know we aren't? If the general consensus is "p320 go bang" and "glock safe" then every time a glock goes off, people look for evidence of negligence. And every time a sig goes off, people assume faulty gun and refuse to look for evidence. I'm not saying you, I'm saying generally. It's confirmation bias, for both.
Look at it this way. There are thousands of unidentified lights in the sky floating around over the years. Thousands of reports of UFOs with ET flying around. So if you see a light in the sky, is it automatically a UFO just because thouands of other people have claimed to have seen a UFO?
Us army, police stations, competitions, im too lazy to pull reports so here is a [Brandon Herrara](https://youtu.be/2uHy8YOQexo?si=SlToYYo2lk_A2tUD) video with receipts
Do you need a video to tell you everything? Dude had multiple reports in the video saying its not safe. Investigations saying the parts were not good. [Videos proving its not drop safe.](https://youtube.com/shorts/a2kBJwWT--Y?si=QmxmEXxWagGsfpuj) maybe the gun doesnt go off while just chilling in the holster but the gun is not safe for standard use.
What I'm getting at is that it might be more to do with the lack of a trigger safety combined with duty holsters often leaving the trigger exposed. I know there has been at least one case with a police department where they attributed that as the cause. Assuming that there is a genuine issue, you gotta wonder how many users are actually experiencing that issue and how many are having traditional NDs/inadvertent trigger pulls and claiming that it's an uncommanded discharge.
I mean when the gun goes off in holsters or unfettered it usually breaks the gun in the rear. The pictures of a p320 snapped in the same place everytime is concerning
So, let me get this straight.
Shooter is chilling, hands nowhere near his weapon, weapon is in a secure holster, and the weapons internal are so glitch it just goes off.... someone touched a trigger...
I’ve taken a class with Rick Crawley. He’s clearly very confident in his abilities and presents himself as an expert in firearms training. During the class, he demonstrated his ability to make precise handgun shots at 50 yards on small targets and suggested that this kind of documented performance could help justify use-of-force decisions in court. Personally, I’m not sure that shooting static targets on a flat range necessarily translates to legal justification in a real-world incident, especially in front of a grand jury. That said, maybe he’s actually been in that position and had it work out in his favor.
That particular moment was probably the most memorable part of the class for me, but beyond that, not much else really stood out. I didn’t come away feeling especially compelled to take another class with him.
I don’t leave comments up for more than a couple days so this will get taken down .
We don’t see anything in this video that shows the 320 is a problem. Unfortunately, a lot of videos and instances like this one stack up like evidence against Sig, when in fact there is nothing shown here that proves the 320 is firing without the trigger moving to the rear.
Really? So many videos? Can you provide links to all these videos that are clear and convincing evidence? Because every fucking video on IG, reddit and YT are like this one - posted as "proof" yet show nothing.
I’ve yet to see a video of a p320 “going off” when it’s not being messed with, or placed in a shitty holster that has an obstruction.
All videos I’ve seen were genuine NDs, holster obstructions, or similar. I don’t believe the p320 just magically goes off, because I haven’t seen it.
What’s more likely, a weapon that “randomly” discharges with no user input? Or a gun with a precocked striker and no trigger safety is being ND’d?
Are they all claiming to be eyewitnesses to this event? We don’t see what happened and the majority of them couldn’t have seen it, either.
Does the guy this happened to have anything to say about it?
If you saw someone fucking with their gun and they ND it you are just gonna sit there quietly? Also you think these guys are gonna risk their rep on this?
Against. I could be wrong but I would find it weird that these guys would risk their reputation for this. Everything I have seen about them has been positive but again I could be wrong
Multiple of the cop videos show no hands near the weapon, and it is holstered. I agree, it is unfortunate he isn't in frame but if you take an instructor course, there usually are multiple RSOs watching the line for people manipulating a loaded weapon with people down range
Screw Sig and the way they have gaslighted their customers and failed to take responsibility for a failed design. So many great guns out there to choose from.
I won't even buy those. Their pistol dots have more parallax than any other I've used. I haven't tried their scopes, but I'm betting they are also not worth their price. I just don't trust Sig any more after their blatant gaslighting and repeated sub par products.
I love how some folks are responding saying later on the guy was checked if he was shot…
As if the time to do that wasn’t ya know, immediately when it happened. What a fucking clown show.
I love how suddenly everyone who was in this approximately 12 person class has a reddit, Instagram, and Facebook account and is commenting on the video, I've seen "I was there, it really happened, the alternate instructor made sure he was OK right after the video cut" type comments from no-name accounts everywhere. IMO this is a fake video made to farm engagement and they're making sock puppet accounts to defend against the people calling it fake, because it just really looks fake to me. As an instructor I can't imagine sending someone with a holstered ND off the range before checking their leg for an injury they might not feel.
There were 20 students in the class, and Rick and AHT are nationally known and travel all over the country to teach classes. Why the fuck would he make some “fake” bullshit video and risk his company and credibility for clicks?
As far as these no name accounts…been on Reddit for like years and was actually in the class yesterday when this happened. But it’s okay, don’t crinkle your tinfoil hat
Dude, I've been wanting a full size double-single action with no external safety for a bit now. I was going to get the CZ P09 F Nocturne, but I wouldn't complain if I saw an optics ready P226 without an external safety on sale.
Is it shorter than 4 inches? If it is, that might be a problem for my intended purpose. I'm wanting a DA/SA for duty carry, potentially at my job. Thing is, they require a barrel length of 4-5 inches.
Ah yeah, it comes in right at 3.9. That's a shame because as soon as I held mine the first thing that ran through my head was "Damn. THAT'S a duty pistol"
ive got a 226 mk25, hands down the best handgun ive ever owned. highly worth the 1200 i paid for it. ive run over 2000 rounds through it, and its never jammed, misfired, or malfunctioned in any way, and ive run some straight up dog shit ammo through that thing lol.
Oh, I'd absolutely love to have one, but that over $1,000 price point is what's really hampered me buying one. That's not even necessarily to say it's overpriced, just that it's my main hang-up with buying one.
yea i got it back in 2019, and it came with a threaded barrel too. i probably wouldnt pay that much for it again though, but i have no regrets. its the peak of duty pistols in my opinion. pretty cool story of how they came to be too.
I'd have no problem spending $1,200 on a pistol, but that's including an optic and a light. I have no clue how hopeful this price is, but if I saw an optics-ready, decocker-only P226 for like $800 at a gun store while I'm there to get a P09, I'd just get that P226 instead. The thing is, the only gun store near me that gets in the P09 Nocturne or any of the steel-frame Sig handguns with any reliability is out of state. Damn that out of state handgun bullshit, especially when both the customer's home state, and the gun store's state allow the gun. I'd only bother with an FFL transfer if it was a gun on sale, or an uncommon gun. I'd have them transfer a Beretta 90-two or a 226 on sale to a WV store in a heartbeat, but I'd probably just wait for one of my stores to get in something like a CZ P09 F Nocturne.
It's crazy seeing all the whiny crybaby sig fanboys complain that the instructor didn't make sure his wiwwle feewings weren't hurt first. Dude just fucking had his gun go off while he was downrange while the range was cold, that is an extreme safety violation and would ordinarily be met with being kicked out of ANY pistol class in ANY country around the world. You guys need to get outside and actually train instead of playing armchair firearms analyst.
And no, stop spreading the conspiracy theory that this was faked. That's asinine, why would anyone do that. All the people who witnessed it happen said that the gun was 100% holstered at the time of the incident. But keep ignoring the insurmountable mountain of evidence that the P320 has a serious design flaw that likely only gets triggered when the tolerance stacking aligns to cause it to fire on its own.
It stops today.
Yes, obviously there are questions!
Exact model of 320 & holster for starters, and whether it had the previous "voluntary FCU upgrade" from a few years ago (or is newer).
Is it not a bit bizarre the 320 was immediately handled instead of it being documented and observed in the holster after going off?
I mean I want to believe the video is real but it's like almost surreal how the instructor immediately zeroes in on the guy with the 320 and tells them to get off the range and manipulating their gun.
This seems faked for clout. Not one question asked? Other than calling out that it’s a 320. An ND would have been far more likely but he immediately goes to “fucking 320?” Didn’t see it happen but walks straight up to the guy? Fake ass shit.
Yeah, a guy like Rick is definitely putting his reputation on the line to stage a fake video at one of his classes to farm clout on the internet.
Actually braindead comment.
"I watched a 30 second video on the internet with limited context, so I'm going to pass judgement on a guys character."
I've trained with Rick many times, the guy is as good as it gets. Just say you're a Sig Simp and be honest.
Yea dude they really got the entire class to what sign NDAs and everyone get on the same page and be cool with popping off a round right at the firing line either 1) directly in the ground next to multiple people or 2) downrange where the instructor was? And completely trust that none of these people would come out and say it's fake or staged and put the entire reputation of the company on the line? Or is it more likely that the platform that has been proven and seen multiple times to be going off in holsters and certified dog shit slapped together hammer to striker conversation mess had yet another malfunction? I dont understand why people are so emotionally invested in defending the 320, if you can't see that there is CLEARY something fundamentally wrong with it, especially compared to it's peers, then you're just being purposely ignorant.
While I was in training for my last deployment we had a guy ND because brass went inside of his collar and he let a round go right in front of the person next to him which passed inches from his knee. I saw it happen because I was directly behind them but the people in the direct vicinity reacted to it and this occurred during live fire, unlike this video.
What you’re implying here just isn’t accurate. They’re mid instruction, with no live fire happening on the line. There’s also no way that you can say a malfunction occurred based on what we see in this video.
Yeah no. When it isn’t the random chaos of a rent a lane style range and there’s some order to when you start and stop shooting, you notice. Like a lot.
There was a small woodland gnome in the holster that was previously offended by the user and was looking for vengeance. Clearly the small woodland gnome pulled the trigger, so it was user error.
- SIG
100% fake, I'd bet my reputation and money as an RSO and instructor on it, and I'm no Sig fan by any stretch. Unless that's the most incompetent instructor on earth, his immediate concern with a gun going off in a holster would have been whether the guy carrying it had been shot in the leg, and then securing the weapon, not what model of pistol it was. Nobody flinches or jumps when it goes off, including the guy whose gun it is, and somehow this "instructor" instantly knows many things he could not possibly know unless it was planned: he immediately knows whose weapon went off (hard to tell with earpro on and multiple people clustered together if you don't directly see the weapon fire), he "knows" that it was an ND and not someone intentionally violating the ceasefire, that the gun went off in the holster without the user pulling the trigger, that the person who fired is uninjured (!!!Should be primary concern!!!), and that the person who fired was using a P320.
Figuring out all those things would take a minute or two, and minute plus videos don't play well on instagram, that's why it's a 20 second video where the ND, and the loud verbal identification of the gun that did it as a P320 happen in the space of 3 seconds. This is a fake video made for social media engagement.
HAY … Sig already said “this ends now” the other day… that means stop posting when p320s discharge without being touched.
It’s over, nothing to see here… Move along!
/s
The sig sub is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. Bunch of shmucks defending a corporation and a garbage firearm with well documented records of uncommanded discharges...
Looks like a fake video. No one is even phased, no one asking if someone needs medical, blatantly calling out pistol by name instead of even being concerned about what just happened. Obviously anti-sig video with not the best acting.
Kinda crazy that the instructor shows that he doesn't really care about people and their well being by the way he responded. Yet he posted this video himself and probably got the most engagement out any video he's posted and now everyone is shitting on him lol.
As a firearms instructor myself, fuck that guy, clear the gun and make sure it's unloaded then check to make sure no one is hurt. Dont talk to the person who is probably freaking out from a gun going off in their holster like they're 2 months into basic training and are finger fucking their gun in the holster.
So, i actually understand everyone questioning the validity of this video in the comments. I don't really like Sig either, but this video really doesn't show anything *actually* happening.
I just cant figure out why someone would fake this. Does this guy have anything the gain? Or are we assuming he could have faked this just for his channel/attention for his classes?
social media algorithms prioritize engagement. just use this thread as an example, dude sells classes its basically effortless exposure.
shit looked it up on the gram, it's the biggest engagement post on their page by ALOT.
am no fan of the p320 but its just odd that it goes from a super popular competition pistol for a few years to suddenly it just goes off and NDs on the daily. just food for thought.
I'm in the same place with it. I am willing to believe that there are still problems with the p320 but we got dozens of videos where people were able to demonstrate the drop safety issue, why aren't there any videos of this purported sear engagement issue? Think I might take apart my xten to verify sear engagement with Prussian blue.
The demeanor of asking immediately if its a p320 and telling him to get off the range with zero regard for anyone's safety is what makes me think it might have been faked. IF they did that they could have done it in such a way that the other students weren't in on it either.
I agree, unfortunately theres no video of it actually going off and seeing it directly like the one where the police are standing around, also the instructor doesnt even check if the guy is Ok and jumps right to asking if its a p320.
I have a 320. Never had a misfire like that. Had a safarland holster it flew out of 3 times before getting a new holster. Have never had this issue. Bought mine before they were pushing for the military contracts, and when it was replacing the 250 on the civilian market. I'm thinking maybe they started making them cheaper to meet those contracts maybe? Anyone have imput about that?
Because he cares more about his reputation and liability than the well-being of the people around him. Ironically the exact same thing that's wrong with Sig and the majority of the gun community.
The fact that the instructor never once asked if the guy was okay before telling him to take the gun away is wild. Take the gun, empty it, clear it, whatever you have to do to make sure that won’t happen again and everyone else is safe. Then, check on the guy and make sure it didn’t hit his foot or his leg or whatever.
You’re making an assessment off of like a 15 second video. The guy was pulled off the line by the AI and assessed for injuries, which there were none, immediately after the gun was cleared.
I’m not an Sig fan boy and I think the P320 has real issues.
But this video doesn’t show enough to be useful. All we know is the gun went off. We have no idea what the shooter was doing when it happened.
Sig somehow cornered that “gun brand is also my identity” market and now they’re all OD’ing on copium.
That or they feel embarrassed keeping that Sig sticker on their Dodge Ram, especially since it fits perfectly between their punisher skull and fuck-it stickers.
Imagine appendix carrying one. Has anyone had their dick shot off yet. If my carry pistol just fired out of nowhere it would be 30 seconds to a tourniquet or an obliteration of the nether regions. All this evidence, while anecdotal is starting to look more and more true, the gun is a danger to the user and those around him. I always see these discharges on OWB holsters. Is the gun huge or something?
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Hector is gonna be running 3 Honda Civic’s with spoon engines. On top of that he just came into Harry’s and ordered 3 t66 turbo’s with NOS’s and a Motec System Exhaust.
Definitively, no one knows.
Users say it’s a design flaw. Sig says it’s a holster/negligence issue. Neither side can prove it 100%. They have tried but both are deadlocked on the matter.
The video doesn't show much ,but the amount of these things going off in duty holsters is kind of crazy. It has to be the lack of a trigger safety and the looseness of those holsters being just enough to get something caught on it.
I owned a 320 for years and carried it every day. Had no issues. I eventually sold it. You cannot really see what is going on in this video as the line of shooters obstructs the view of the discharge.
I don't understand why people still buy these. Even if you assure me it is not a problem 'anymore', not worth it.
As someone who never owned a sig prior to all of this, now when I think of sig, I think of NDs, even if that's completely unwarranted for other models.
The P250 rocks, as does the SP2022. Just because fully cocked striker-fired designs without a manual or trigger blade safety are stupid doesn’t mean that Sig polymers are bad.
Glad I decided to sell my P320 recently and move to a different platform before Ohio Range Day.
40,000 rounds with no issues on mine but I just can’t support Sig anymore after they called all the people reporting these issues liars.
And thaat's just for the US military, not counting police contracts in the US, and military and police contracts around the world... A total recall for them would be apocalyptic.
A recall would mean admitting there is a problem. You don't recall something if there isn't a problem that needs fixing. That's why Sig didn't call the voluntary upgrade for the P320 a "recall" during the drop safety issue. Once Sig admits fault with a recall, all those lawsuits have more validity and the chances of Sig losing them skyrockets.
A major company like Sig never should have sold them to begin with. There are plenty of low, middle, and high end guns you can load and leave alone for years without being worried about them going off.
Sig's prices and unreliability would have tanked the company if it wasn't for existing military contracts.
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