The Dallas Morning News Recommends: PASS THE BONDS
Posted by Stafford4Collin@reddit | plano | View on Reddit | 42 comments
[removed]
Posted by Stafford4Collin@reddit | plano | View on Reddit | 42 comments
[removed]
anonnoodle88@reddit
When will the existing road construction be done? Plano Pkwy and Independence has been under construction for 3+ years, and yet now it's down to ONE lane!
Can they finish anything before needing hundreds of millions more?
Stafford4Collin@reddit (OP)
The existing bond authority is winding down. Infrastructure doesn't last forever.
flilmawinstone@reddit
I think people aren’t complaining about the fact that infrastructure needs updated and the roads should be maintained. What people are complaining about is the way the projects are managed. Lanes closed with no activity for months, repeatedly digging up and re-pouring sections, poor signage, etc.
wha2les@reddit
Improving the road sounds nice. But all I see is that by the time they finish lane 3, they have to fix lane 1 again ... because it took so damn long.
And I swear they fixed the road. Only to dig it up again because they needed to replace pipes or something... Couldn't they have done both at the same time?
raw2082@reddit
Yeah the way that the city is currently managing their repairs to the roadways consists of a lot of waste. They’re not well managed I’m not voting yes while they continue to manage the projects poorly. The intersection at legacy and Custer has been under construction for almost a year now and several road projects have been going about the same time. The construction crews will literally abandon a spot for months on end with no progress.
flilmawinstone@reddit
☝️ this is exactly how I feel! Parker road continues to be dug up multiple times, legacy at independence has lanes blocked with nothing happening. Parker Road isn’t finished and yet they’re digging up Park? — one of the next logical alternatives for east west travel since Parker road is still having lane closures
zatchstar@reddit
Those are 2 separate contractors. The municipal water district had to come in and replace the pipes then the city comes in and does the concrete work and asphalt.
All of it is needed, there are lots of roads and bridges that were built 50 years ago and need to be repaired/updated now.
I’m in support to the roads and the park upgrades for sure.
texaseclectus@reddit
Since no one is stopping Abbot from forcing his school voucher programs and the dismanteling of the department of education is going to make our property taxes skyrocket I'm not voting to pay more for anything regardless of how much it's needed.
Stafford4Collin@reddit (OP)
So fuck the city because of shenanigans at the state and Federal level? That’s like shitting on your wife because your mom and grandma were bitchy at you.
texaseclectus@reddit
Yup. Fuck all asks from all levels of Texas state and local governments. I vote fuck no.
Matchboxx@reddit
You might be worse at analogies than you are at financial management.
mistiquefog@reddit
At least Plano is asking money for the right projects.
Wish Frisco had similar priorities.
zatchstar@reddit
Difference in type of city. Frisco is actively growing and most of the infrastructure is brand new. Plano is an established city transitioning to maintaining old infrastructure
Matchboxx@reddit
It would probably cost less than $100M to build a police headquarters - and frankly I’m not sure what’s wrong with renovating the old one - if some builder buddy of the council wasn’t getting a kickback.
I have zero confidence that any of this shit went through a fair procurement process.
Stafford4Collin@reddit (OP)
There has been no procurement process as you the voter have not (yet) approved construction of a new police HQ.
Matchboxx@reddit
If I haven’t approved you soliciting bids, how do you know how much money to ask for? This is almost more concerning - you’re just ball parking an amount you want to spend (on something unnecessary nonetheless). And if you’re openly advertising how much you’re willing to spend, do you think that aids in a competitive bidding process?
This is a hard pass. Stop rifling around in my wallet.
zatchstar@reddit
civil engineering consultant here. Consultants that do these big design projects always develop an “opinion of probable cost” or “engineers estimate”. They look at the rolling averages for what each thing in the project will cost and they make an estimate of what they think it will cost.
The city will use that to estimate how much they need to budget.
When contractors bid on a project it is a competitive low bid scenario. They aren’t going to want to lose money on a project they bid, so they won’t go super low to win, but they do still want to be competitive to actually win the work, so they will look to be as low as they can within reason.
Unless there is a big spike in cost of materials the engineers estimate is usually with 5% or so of the actual bid.
idknemoar@reddit
As someone who works in government, I can assure you that isn’t the case. None of it has gone through an RFP process yet. That is backwards to the process. Before designing/planning/etc, the bonds have to be approved. This is just the taxpayer authorizing the city to issue debt (bonds) up to the amount specified. There is no guarantee they’ll even spend that total, it’s a “not to exceed” number. You always ask for a bit more than you think you’ll need as you have to account for inflationary costs, changes in the market (a big one right now being tariffs and the uncertainty that causes across all the various things that go into a new facility). The City hires outside consultants familiar with the construction of these types of facilities and makes comparisons to other similarly sized entities who have recently built such facilities as well as market and industry data to come up with estimates. All of this is estimated costs though when making bond proposals as the city hasn’t yet been authorized by the taxpayers to go forward with actual planning, land procurement, etc. All those steps would independently be competitively bid once the city gets the voters approval to move forward with the various propositions.
As for the cost of the facility, the structure may very well be a lot lower than that, now think about the technology within it, the furniture and fixtures, etc. That stuff adds up super fast in an overall new facility build out. I operate ~$2m worth of equipment that fits in a single 400 sq ft room (data center).
It’s actually a lot harder to cheat the system than you would think and Plano’s procurement department is staffed by some of the most stickler of following the procurement laws, etc, to the T, which is a good thing. Council isn’t involved in the bid process, they are the last step after all procurement law processes have been followed and city staff presents their recommendations to council based on the processes.
Matchboxx@reddit
I was also a government contractor for close to a decade, and they always found a way to use up all of the allocated money, even if it was on throwaway work.
idknemoar@reddit
That can happen at some agencies depending on the way they budget and can be wasteful, but the difference here is we’re talking about bonds (capital/debt) vs what you’re referring to which is operational budget (already collected dollars from taxes/revenues). Some, not all, agencies and more specifically departments within those agencies will rush to spend remaining allocated budget dollars towards the end of their fiscal year from within their operational budget as they don’t want to lose their allocated budget and when they have a legitimate need for something in a future year, don’t want to have the fact that they aren’t spending what they were previously allocated so they shouldn’t be asking for more. More entities need to create better accounting/budgeting standards for departments that sweep unused funds into their general fund to cover future one-time asks from departments and this would largely resolve that mentality. It’s a balance between “save as much as you can” and “don’t come asking for more money when you didn’t spend what we gave you”. When in reality, some years you may be able to save money and others you may have a need for a little extra for some project or need.
This bond money isn’t actually a big pot of money though, it has to be sold as debt via selling bonds as it is needed to complete the project to get the actual money. Capital budgets span multi-year for this purpose vs operational budgets that are year to year only.
zatchstar@reddit
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I think this is a really good explanation of the process for someone who is unfamiliar with it
idknemoar@reddit
Cause folks like to have their opinions about “big guv’ment bad”, but at the local levels, as someone who has worked for 3 separate cities, the folks that work at them all are local taxpayers, too, and only want what is best for often their very own communities they too live within. It’s easy to be disconnected at the state and federal level, so we can often have big disagreements with the directions taken at those levels since it doesn’t take into account (as much) what directly impacts us on a day to day basis in our local communities. Local governments are different though. What you vote on and the services offered very directly affect you and are more immediately apparent and seen as opposed to the longer arc changes made at the state and federal levels which can often take years and years to be fully realized.
nounthennumbers@reddit
99% of non government workers have never heard of Green Book requirements and they think there is enough money floating around that there is some to waste. This is what bugs me when people say “I’m going to get elected and run government like a business”. Business is about making profit, government is about trying to create something out of nothing all while people yell at you for more.
heinzenfeinzen@reddit
After witnessing the mess of Parker Road (sections dug up and re-poured, sections closed for months with no activity, etc), I am now a cynic and completely agree with you!
dpenton@reddit
Paywall
Stafford4Collin@reddit (OP)
Literally all of the editorial was copied into the OP, and you’re bitching about a paywall? 🙄
zatchstar@reddit
The article is basically typed out in this post.
Agitated_Body5781@reddit
These numbers are way high for all projects
NOPE
zatchstar@reddit
I can see how the buildings may seem hi, but the city only does these bond elections every few years. Those numbers for parks and roads are not that large for what they need to do around the city.
wha2les@reddit
Well if it doesn't take years to fix that one small section of road, maybe I agree... But they somehow avoided all the sections with pot holes in them from last time.
JG0923@reddit
Nah.
No-Celebration3097@reddit
Do police really need new headquarters?
Suitable_Bike_9484@reddit
They don’t. I think maybe because other cities are getting new ones that they want a new shine one. And if they want a training facility - they should just take over the empty schools in Plano that they shut down.
No-Celebration3097@reddit
That sounds like a great idea actually
sfa1500@reddit
I mean the one we have now was built in 1970. Pretty sure that building houses the courts as well. All of those things have grown with our population.
tactis1234@reddit
Vote this down!
Early-Tourist-8840@reddit
Bonds are delayed taxes
Apollo_gentile@reddit
I’m indifferent on some of these but 155M for a police HQ? No way, cut that in half and I’d maybe vote yes but it’s a def no for me, plus they want another 50M for a training center? Get the Fuck outta here
blondydog@reddit
Ah yes. The DMN never met government spending it didn't like.
Vote no. Enough with the profligacy.
fireball214@reddit
Absolutely a NO vote here.
zatchstar@reddit
Why?
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