Trump issues massive tariffs on trading partners
Posted by wsch@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 158 comments
Posted by wsch@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 158 comments
ssdx3i@reddit
Oh no. Now it'll cost $3 to make that t-shirt in Vietnam instead of $2!
wsch@reddit (OP)
Your point proves how dumb the tariffs are! If it is 3 dollars to make a tshirt in Vietnam, that’s still a hell of a lot cheaper than making them in the us. So what do we get from Trumps policy, more expensive goods at no benefit to the American worker.
ssdx3i@reddit
Yeah, that was the point lmao. It was to show how even with tariffs manufacturing low value stuff isn’t coming back
wsch@reddit (OP)
Oh haha
Sea_Poppy@reddit
I won't pretend to be an economist, but the defeatism from most of the comments doesn't sit right with me. Not arguing that tariffs are the way to go about solving it, but I thought there was something to the original sentiment that we can't sit around letting corporations outsource all manufacturing and tech until we are even more uber-reliant on other countries that we already are.
wsch@reddit (OP)
Yeah I mean, I get that. But it’s hard to go back in time.
And I don’t think you can blame people for having extreme reactions to extremely stupid decisions. Especially tariffs on allies etc.
Again totally get the plight of the American worker but tariffs are not the answer. Look at countries where workers have higher wages and better treatment. What do they do?
WhoDey918@reddit
This is why it annoyed me when people were giving him credit for being the most liberty focused president of their lifetime. For one, that’s a pretty low bar. He’s also been promoting anti liberty policies this entire time. He may be aligned with libertarians on a policy here and there but he’s largely an awful president in terms of liberty. Better than Harris would’ve been? Maybe, but he still gets a failing grade on liberty in my eyes. These tariffs are terrible.
wsch@reddit (OP)
100%. Hard to know who would be better from a libertarian perspective. But Harris plans would have increase national debt by trillions (so will Trump’s) but she (or almost any other republican is smart enough not to do this) .
TheEdes@reddit
Lib here, so feel free to disregard my perspective if I'm stepping a bit over the line. I'm someone worried about the deficit for what it's worth.
Democrats have been the ones cutting government spending (as a percentage of GDP, it's bound to go up due to inflation) since at least the Clinton administration. Republicans have this nasty tendency to use this cushion to cut taxes since that's popular, and while I understand most people here agree with this, I think we should all be the adults in the room and pay our debts off before we start cutting taxes. I think democrats are realizing that they're playing bad parent because the Biden administration stopped giving a shit about cutting spending, to be fair, but Republicans are slowly driving us off an inflationary cliff by not attacking the deficit and instead just lowering taxes.
CT_Throwaway24@reddit
I don't think that's true anymore. Most of those smart enough to not do this have been driven out of office or retired.
PrinceKO_93@reddit
Dude empowered ICE to arrest legal immigrants for supporting Palestine. How in the fuck is that libertarian?
inebriatus@reddit
Let’s steel man the tariffs and assume they’d work.
In the short term prices are going to go up. Even if companies wanted to bring all their foreign manufacturing home, they couldn’t do it in time to avoid tariffs and bring prices down before Trump’s term is up. Furthermore, if it was cheaper to manufacture what they’re making in the US, they’d already be doing it here so prices will go up regardless of what they do.
The American populace listed the economy and prices as one of the main reasons that they voted in the current administration. People are very sensitive to their economic well being and will no doubt punish whatever administration is in power when things get economically harder.
Now, if I was a manufacturer, why would I spend billions moving manufacturing to the US to avoid tariffs when it is very likely that the next administration won’t continue them. It would be better to ride it out for a few years and see what happens.
Even if I bought into it and decided to move manufacturing to the US, I couldn’t do it quickly enough to make much of a difference before the next election.
There’s no way that tariffs will accomplish their goal.
Tubby7243@reddit
It's not going to lower prices. If an American made widget can be sold for $7.50 but a foreign one can be sold for $5 then we all buy the cheaper one. With tariffs, now the foreign widget costs at least $7.50. So now everyone's paying $7.50 where before we could get it for $5 but now we're buying American. I think the idea is that to continue to compete in the American markets you have to manufacture in America. With more manufacturing, there will be more jobs, and less money leaves the US thus making everyone more prosperous.
HotFoxedbuns@reddit
No, everyone is not more prosperous, only the American widget makers.
If Americans can buy cheaper products elsewhere it leaves them with extra money to BUY OTHER THINGS, whether foreign or domestic. Spending more on something that you could get cheaper just makes you poorer. Unless of course the more expensive thing is actually of superior quality.
Not to mention that xtra money saved by buying healer products means you have more disposable income to save for retirement or just general savings and investments you want to make.
What do you think foreign countries or companies do with the dollars that they get from trading with us? They buy American goods or services. Or they invest in the US market/bonds. So all you have done is ensured that the US consumer has to pay more for something and has less free capital to invest themselves.
Namnagort@reddit
What if you are buying products you dont need, created by slave labor, and they destroy the environment?
Jcbm52@reddit
You are not the one to judge that, neither is the US Government, a tariff meant to "educate US citizens on consumer habits" is a lie and a horrible dystopian idea, and even if that was the problem tariffs would be on useless things, not on everything. This same argument applies for destroying the environment thing.
Slave labour is at least an exaggeration, mainly a lie. First of all, working conditions were also very bad in the West, when we were as poor as some other countries are now. But still, just like before, you really think the objective of tariffs is to protect Indians from slave labor? Good ol' Trump is putting tariffs on everyone (including developed countries) out of empathy for Ethiopian shoemakers?
Namnagort@reddit
First of all, "Need" is not really a subjective term.
The only reason we get cheap products from countries like China is because of the Fed massively subsidizing cheap shit being shipped from China. China would be nothing without the US FEDERAL government making a "service based economy." Thank you Clinton. A true Libertarian.
I dont really care why Trump is putting the tarrifs on Third world country abusing their citizens so you can Iphone.
burnett631@reddit
America shouldn't be trading with countries who do these things at all.
Namnagort@reddit
yet, i am downvoted. Maybe we need a modern day uncle toms cabin. I dont support slavery. sorry.
Tubby7243@reddit
I agree. I think, meaning I'm guessing at what the perceived benefit is (wasn't very clear with that in my first post), is that you're thinking too short term. In 10+ years we'll have more jobs so less unemployment meaning less spending on welfare programs. In addition, with more business we'll collect more tax from the businesses. Now with less spending and more coming in, the individuals will have to pay less in taxes and thus have more for everything else.
Again, I don't really believe that will happen, just trying to understand the other side. I think it could happen, but it's like winning the lottery.
Daryl992@reddit
Except for everyone that has to buy the widget
ToothlessHound@reddit
This is the way
skeetskeet75@reddit
Here in lies why the tariffs are actually so bad. If businesses do make the capital investment to bring manufacturing back locally, then prices still go up AND it's now politically harder to remove the tariffs because the rent seekers will want government to protect their investment. So you may end up in a situation where it takes decades to unwind the damage the tariffs will cause.
If the investment isn't made, well you have less supply at higher prices and everyone is worse off for at least the next 4 years until the administration changes.
It's lose lose.
FairlyOddParent734@reddit
And then when the tariffs actually do go away (which they will lol) it will take time for prices to actually drop since competition between businesses will drive down the prices, while everyone is going to be jacking them up instantly no?
konsyr@reddit
And it will also lead to less competition as smaller places close down because larger ones can afford to eat more tariff. Like all regulations, it favors the biggest players at the expense of the smaller ones.
Austinfromthe605@reddit
I don’t think he actually likes tariffs, he just wants other countries to get rid of their tariffs and then the U.S. will follow suite. Then I assume he’ll cut manufacturing taxes close to zero if they produce in the United States, to incentives producing domestic products.
paperrug12@reddit
it is impossible for countries to remove tariffs that already do not exist.
SylphCo93@reddit
Trump has been publicly a protectionist and for tariffs since the 1980s. It is one of his few actual consistent beliefs other than being anti immigration. His first administration implemented several new tariffs but his advisors talked him out of implementing more. Biden didn't remove any of them, and now he's going all in after abandoning all his competent advisors and replaced them with yes men.
bestofeleventy@reddit
Trump has two signature policies he talks about more than any others. One is stopping immigration and the other is implementing tariffs. What makes you think he is not serious about the latter? Is it really that you see some strong evidence for this, or is it just that you would prefer Smart Trump to Dumb Trump? For what it’s worth, the stock market, where people actually have to bet on the future, is VERY negative on this move - which is to say, investors, especially large ones with good information networks, think he’s dead serious.
t0rnAsundr@reddit
I’d be a terrible businessman. That’s why I do IT. But I believe in decentralization and localization, especially with food production. Centralization leads to centralized control.
the_seed@reddit
I think it's about getting other countries to lower or remove their tariffs on the US. We'll see! In a vacuum, it's an interesting exercise. Unfortunately, this isn't a vacuum
inebriatus@reddit
That’s honestly my best case scenario for his tariffs, unfortunately, I think he really believes in them.
wsch@reddit (OP)
100%
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
It’s a negotiation tool. Nothing more, nothing less. Wait and see.
benaugustine@reddit
Out of curiosity, what metrics are you waiting to see on specifically. At what point will you consider this a bad decision?
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
When countries or the EU start “negotiating” for lower tariff imposed towards the US, then I’ll say it’s a fantastic negotiation skill from this current government. If free trade stops completely, because other countries don’t agree on lowering their tariffs or agreeing on reciprocity, then I’ll say it’s a completely stupid idea. I don’t see that happening..listen to the EU interviews on the matter.
benaugustine@reddit
Define "if free trade stops completely"
Are you saying there's no way this is bad unless America completely stops importing and exporting goods?
I'm looking for market based metrics if you have some. Inflation rises x%, S&P drops x%, cost of living increases x%. Something that can be verified in a year or two so we can come back and see if it's a success or a failure
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
Let’s wait and see. I hope to read you again in a year.
benaugustine@reddit
Okay, I'll give some objective measures
Average S&P raise 10% yoy Average inflation 2.8% yoy
Let's look 2 at 2 years.
If Trump manages less than 8% yoy and if average inflation is greater than 3% Trump will have performed worse than average.
If he is between 8% and 12% yoy for the market and between 2.6% and 3% for inflation, we'll say he's had little positive or negative affect
If the market grows by 12% or more yoy and inflation is under 2%, we'll call his policies beneficial
Deal?
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
Great deal!!
benaugustine@reddit
Remindme! 2 Years
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
Will do.
benaugustine@reddit
!Remindme 1 Year
SunnySpot69@reddit
Serious question, has it worked so far?
Dapper0248@reddit
Israel has folded
The rest have to. USA is the largest consumer on the planet.
Jaeger__85@reddit
For now. The rest is going to move away from the US rather than fold.
SunnySpot69@reddit
Also how had Israel folded? I tried searching and got something about how they are pushing back, and how they just bombed and killed 80 Palestine.
SunnySpot69@reddit
And that is why other nations are working without us.e.g. China Korea, Japan.
And again, how much will it cost us overall? And why is he doing this? What is he gaining by making everyone else "fold?"
scantily_chad@reddit
Since we're all spitballing and steel manning:
I am only aware of these because i pay attention to stock market. There could be more, but the news won't tell you. Again, time will tell
SunnySpot69@reddit
Yes it will. And one of the many questions is how much will it cost Americans, and how much will it generate?
How much will either of those generate vs the lost revenue from tourists, for another example.
homeboycartel2@reddit
Great negotiations like all of his businesses?
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
I’m not sure about his businesses. What happens if it works? You will start liking the guy? I don’t, but his ideas make sense.
wsch@reddit (OP)
How does it make sense? Tank economy, increase prices on consumers, cause stagflation. Especially as a libertarian how does it make sense? Restrict free trade?
Dapper0248@reddit
Republicans are onboard with his plans. If they truly believed it would hurt the economy, they would stop him
But people in gov are better informed than a libertarian subreddit
wsch@reddit (OP)
This is a weak argument. Some republicans understand that tariffs are bad, at least these insanely poorly thought out broad ones. But they have no spine and are afraid to go after him and standup to him.
Also republicans are not necessarily better for the economy. In my lifetime anyway they have been far worse than democrats not only in terms of economic growth but also in terms of expanding the national debt.
Dapper0248@reddit
They have stood up to trump before. Republicans have passed veto proof russian sanctions when trump was president and did not like the sanctions
And what are they afraid of? Getting voted out? Wouldn’t they get voted out if the economy gets decimated anyway.
wsch@reddit (OP)
Congress had a much different make up then. Most of the republicans who directly stood up to him are gone. And yes some are physically afraid. Some of those who stood up to him have had to hire security and received death threats. Let’s face it some of his fans are rabid. There are multiple stories of republican politicians talking amongst themselves or others stating they fear Trump and his supporters.
With respect to point 2 have you been paying attention. They are definitely afraid of crossing Trump and losing re-election. Especially with Elon present, he has essentially unlimited money to have someone primary them. Don’t you remember what happened with Jodi Ernst, she had concerns about hegseth, voiced them, then was swiftly threatened with a primary by republican machine and then quickly folded. Republicans (and democrats to be fair) are politicians they like being in power they don’t want to lose.
Also you didn’t respond to the first part of my comment republicans are not better for the economy. Democrats have def fucked Econ in many ways but as I’m sure you are aware republicans have dramatically increased the debt more than democrats.
Dapper0248@reddit
Ridiculous. Afraid of maga supporters…But they are not afraid of leftist activists when they tried to repeal obamacare? Gut social programs?
So they are afraid of losing reelection if they dont support tarrifs. But supporting the tarrifs will decimate the economy according to you, and they will lpse reelection right? They are not afraid of that?
wsch@reddit (OP)
I can’t know the motivation of every republican, but I have you concrete examples above. You can find many more with a quick google search. Also, as mentioned before (which you didn’t respond to) Republicans can hardly be trusted to ensure there is a strong economy. At least in my lifetime they have been shown to be worse then the democrats on that respect.
I’ve enjoyed arguing with you but in te future try to respond to all the arguments and give some examples yourself otherwise you just seem like a troll
Dapper0248@reddit
Im not defending republicans are better for the economy. Im pointing out the flaw in your logic where republicans are not against tarrifs for the sole reason of placating trump and his supporters in fear of retribution at the polls.
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
Free trade will come when other countries drop their tariffs because they need to protect their interest.
homeboycartel2@reddit
But trump literally started a trade war with nations we have a free trade agreement with that he negotiated. How in the blazes are you seeing that end here given his track record? He’s a worse driver of our economy than Toonces is of a car.
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
There is no free trade if China is charging %60+ tariffs. How is that free trade?
homeboycartel2@reddit
I’m talking about Canada and Mexico. Enjoy the stagflation and 10% unemployment
homeboycartel2@reddit
In what reality does anything he’s doing make sense?
Exyyp@reddit
ORANGE MAN BAD! But if Biden were to do this and the countries were to renounce tarriffs he would have been labeled as THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME already by CNN and you liberals on reddit.
homeboycartel2@reddit
If any president enacted policies single-handedly uniting the world against us and cratering the dow Jones a trillion dollars in a day, their party should remove them from office and help remedy the carnage at hand.
Exyyp@reddit
But that so-called world is already united against us by ripping the US massively and they got used to it under Biden. Yes, the tariffs will increase prices for a short time, but in the long run they will benefit this country tremendously. Also as another user said they are used as leverage for others to drop tariffs or lower them.
homeboycartel2@reddit
Hmm. How have they been ripping us off when we’re the largest economy in the world and our companies chose to move their manufacturing plants to these countries for their own enrichment? We profited handsomely and are now sabotaging ourselves for our own myopic agenda. Arguing we’ve been ripped off when prosperity has reigned is nothing but fellated talking points.
DoubleDumpsterFire@reddit
This is the type of argument you see when someone knows they can't win so they just default to Joe Biden shit. You're in the wrong sub.
wsch@reddit (OP)
He didn’t though so what exactly is your point? I have many gripes with Biden, and some things he did were def anti free trade but that pales in comparison to the stupidity here by Trump.
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
In the reality that he is protecting America. He believes this is the greatest country in the World. For the people that don’t believe that is hard to relate with his ideas.
wsch@reddit (OP)
But he is not protecting America in any way by doing this. How is alienating allies protecting America? Explain to me how tariffs against Canada and Mexico will help.
lindamanthei@reddit
The uninhabited island of heard and McDonald are for sure dropping tariffs any minute now 🙄
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
Yes, the Penguins believe in free market. They don’t charge tariffs.
wsch@reddit (OP)
No it’s not. He really thinks they work. Have you heard him speak he doesn’t understand basic economics. Sure they may get adjusted down but not before damage is done.
Taton_Blueberry1136@reddit
Israel already dropped their tariffs. Other countries will follow. Just watch.
HurricaneSpencer@reddit
We live in a serviced based economy now, that means tariffs are taxes on the American people. Building factories and job training take time, so any benefit in that regard is a decent amount of time out. It’s going to get a shitload harder on the average American over the next two years. Things will get undeniably more expensive nearly across the board. Unless that floated idea of getting rid of income taxes for anyone under $150k happens(it likely won’t) the midterms will be a blood bath.
Dapper0248@reddit
EVERY other country has tarrifs, and it works for them
Somehow USA is the only country in the world where tarrifs will decimate the economy.
Interesting-Act-8282@reddit
Yes. The penguins have been taking advantage of us for so so long. Now it is time for an even playing field against…islands with no people…
A small veneer of competence would go some way but I guess they could not be bothered with that.
brian_the_human@reddit
We have developed the best economy in the world largely because of our business-friendly free trade approach. According to this article the countries with the highest tariffs on imports are: the Bahamas, Gabon, Chad, Bermuda, and the Central Africa Republic. Are these really the countries whose economy you want us to emulate?
murararararagi@reddit
Except that it doesn't work for them. They are deliberately raising the cost of living for their people and limiting their access to cheaper or better products. That's not a good example to follow. The US should aim for lower, not higher taxes.
wsch@reddit (OP)
When has another countries levied broad based tariffs against its allies and others.
Nugbucket5@reddit
As trump said, we did. About 100 years ago. It was a total failure.
Nugbucket5@reddit
So let me get this straight... paying income tax (federal and state), sales tax, and social security isn't enough for you? You wanna pay another tax?! Yall are brainwashed
nomi_13@reddit
Yeah, we own 30% of the world’s GDP….markets down, prices up, consumers aren’t spending, layoffs, stagflation = recession, at best.
McAlisterClan@reddit
Brother Americans complain when gas rises 25 cents and eggs raise 2 dollars. Yeah it will hurt them if things become more expensive
UndercoverProstitute@reddit
I would love to know why you guys and the left seem to believe that it’s perfectly fine for other countries to rip us off and do this to us, yet it’s wrong for us to do it back? I have been waiting for a damn reply and nobody seems to explain this to me other than the common “orange man bad” and “FaScIsM”.
Djbonononos@reddit
Tariffs are taxes and taxes are oppression and it doesn't matter what country it is but I only get to vote in one, and I happen to believe in another country that's dirt fucking poor putting tariffs another country is totally fine.
But I know multiple countries are going to oppress all of their citizens with these tariff taxes, orange man has started a chain reaction that will have the whole world attacking the shit out of each other because of this,
And this is garbage in the reason Libertarians hate tariffs , is because the bigger power shouldn't be pressing their thumb onto the scale. It's a natural reaction for the smaller countries to press back. Do you understand? Or do you seriously think this is a good thing?
UndercoverProstitute@reddit
I hear you, and you’re right—tariffs are taxes, and they do have ripple effects that can hurt everyday people. That’s a real concern, especially from a libertarian lens where individual freedom and limited government interference are core values. But here’s the flip side: when other countries are already pressing their thumbs on the scale—whether through tariffs, subsidies, or trade barriers—we’re not exactly playing on a level field to begin with. The idea behind reciprocal tariffs isn’t about bullying weaker nations; it’s about forcing fairness in systems where we’ve been at a disadvantage for decades.
Yes, there’s risk. Yes, smaller countries will push back. But letting every other country protect their markets while we keep ours wide open isn’t free trade either—it’s selective, and it often ends up hurting our farmers, manufacturers, and workers. Ideally, no one would use tariffs. But in reality, they already are. And if used strategically—not indefinitely—they can be leverage to get back to actual free trade. It’s messy, it’s not pure libertarian economics, but sometimes real-world solutions involve imperfect tools to correct even worse imbalances.
brian_the_human@reddit
The other countries imposing tariffs and preventing free trade are only harming themselves. Why should we harm ourselves to “get even” with other countries that are harming themselves? It makes absolutely no sense
Dartzlol@reddit
I mean Trump did this, albeit on a smaller scale, in his first presidency when he targeted China on Tariffs. Guess what? China stopped buying certain U.S. produce, and Trump bailed out the farmers to the tune of 16 billion dollars.
Real-world solutions require knowledge, planning, execution, and the ability to reverse course if they fail.
Trump learned nothing from his first term, other than to surround himself with obedient yes-men. Trump's MO so far is to just use a sledgehammer on the problem and hope that it fixes by itself.
So please reply back to me on why this time will be different.
Jcbm52@reddit
Please don't think about countries like children fighting. Tariffs are bad for one's own economy, more so than for the other ones. If all countries are tariffing a single one, that country shouldn't tariff the back.
These tariffs will force many production chains to be disintegrated and rebuilt, and I can assure you most of them won't be rebuilt inside the US. Why? Regulations, low unemployment (meaning not enough resources to put your factories in there) lack of a trained workforce and the fact that the US is going to be tariffed back and become a bad place from which to export. Instead, many supply chains will be situated outside of the US entirely instead of only partially. This has a clearly negative effect on the US citizens, apart from the obvious price hikes and lack of choice that is independent on what tariffs other countries may have had on the US previously.
Tariffs are, overall, just another tax, just one specially focused on destroying wealth and means of production in a way that doesn't benefit anybody.
wsch@reddit (OP)
How are they ripping us off? We have benefited greatly from they way the global economy is organized. We are largely a service based economy. How is Mexico ripping us off? We get cheap produce and can produce things cheaply in their country.
Dapper0248@reddit
Tell that to the millions of workers in manufacturing sector who have lost their livelihood
Tell that to the decimated manufacturing sectors in detroit, illonis
You have benefited, everyday working americans have not
FairlyOddParent734@reddit
google comparative advantage
wsch@reddit (OP)
Those jobs are not coming back. It will still be cheaper to make things in china or Mexico. Things will just get more expensive. The genie is out of the bottle the cats out of the bag. Whatever cliche you prefer.
Finally I think like many Trump plans this is done in the dumbest way possible. Even if what his supporters say is true. Why levy tariff is against all of our allies. How many jobs have we lost to France? To Switzerland? We all live on this planet. Sure the US is strong but a lot of strength comes from having alliances with other countries and other countries depending on us. Infuriating your allies with poorly thought out tariffs is not wise.
Dapper0248@reddit
Stop repeating the cheaper BS. China stop being cheap decades ago, even tim cook mentioned that. Japan, Germany, SK are not cheap, yet have vibrant manuf. sectors.
Dont conflate military allies with economic allies. And why are those allies levying tattifs on usa?
nomi_13@reddit
The current exchange rate is 1 USD to 174 YEN. 1 USD to 1,464 WON. 1 USD to 0.91 EURO.
The_Purple_Banner@reddit
Enjoy your $5000 iPhone and $70k shitbox cars
Dapper0248@reddit
American goods were not more expensive back then when manufactured in usa
wsch@reddit (OP)
Yes they were do some research. People used to spend a huge amount of money just on their clothes. Also these will not work. Those jobs are gone.
The_Purple_Banner@reddit
Yes they were. Do you remember how expensive a plasma flat screen TV used to be? You used to have to be seriously wealthy for that.
And moreover, can you explain the math to me on how it wouldn’t be more expensive? Nothing about the product changes, but the cost to make the product increases. Can you explain how that doesn’t increase the price?
Dapper0248@reddit
You are assuming price decreases due to technological improvement, and attributing it to manufacturing moving overseas instead
The_Purple_Banner@reddit
Why do you think companies moved overseas in the first place, if it wasn’t cheaper?
Kinda nuts I have to explain this stuff in r/libertarian.
Dapper0248@reddit
Because america decided to move to a service based economy, leaving the blue collars behind
Manufacturing does happen in developed countries like japan, south korea and japan, and they are not necessarily cheaper. Because they decided to protect their workers and sectors while USA has not… tilll now.
The_Purple_Banner@reddit
America “decided” to? Who specifically?
Dapper0248@reddit
The people in power. Catch up
The_Purple_Banner@reddit
So the companies move overseas because the people in power told them to?
Dapper0248@reddit
Are you being intentionally dense? What part of the government’s actions and policies, affecting the decisions of companies do you not understand?
The_Purple_Banner@reddit
Clearly all of it - you still have not explained why specifically companies moved overseas. All you’ve done is vaguely hint some cabal is behind it.
Djbonononos@reddit
Yeah cause that was like 50 years ago you dumb fucker
Walter30573@reddit
If some place has a comparative advantage in producing goods over the United States then the economically efficient and libertarian outcome would be to shift production there.
By placing all of these tariffs, the US will be greatly distorting the markets. We're going to artificially prop up factories that couldn't exist on their own to benefit a small handful of workers, while the cost for that will be borne by literally everyone else. It's just welfare with extra steps. They get to pretend they're being productive while causing price rises across the nation to pay for it
UndercoverProstitute@reddit
Look, it’s not just about getting cheap avocados—it’s about fairness and protecting American workers. Mexico has repeatedly imposed tariffs on U.S. goods, especially agricultural exports, making it harder for our farmers and manufacturers to compete in their market. While we allow their goods in with minimal barriers, they turn around and slap tariffs on ours when it suits them. That’s not free trade—that’s one-sided. For example, in past disputes over steel, pork, and potatoes, Mexico hit back with tariffs that directly hurt U.S. producers and rural economies. And while outsourcing to Mexico may benefit corporations looking to cut costs, it’s hollowed out American industry and hurt working-class communities. Tariffs level the playing field by putting pressure on Mexico to drop their protectionist tactics. We can’t keep letting them benefit from our market while blocking ours—this is about restoring balance, not isolationism.
Celticsmoneyline@reddit
I believe the argument is that we get the advantage of USD being the reserve currency of the world or something
UndercoverProstitute@reddit
Yeah, still don’t see how that is somehow fair to these weirdos. Maybe they should stop slapping taxes on the country that gives them a reason to not be like Africa and run by multiple warlords with zero direction. Sorry, keep downvoting me. I’m more libertarian than the fucking subscribers of the libertarian subreddit apparently. Considering the majority of people on this page support socialist Bernie.
UndercoverProstitute@reddit
Yeah, still don’t see how that is somehow fair to these weirdos. Maybe they should stop slapping taxes on the country that gives them a reason to not be like Africa and run by multiple warlords with zero direction. Sorry, keep downvoting me. I’m more libertarian than the fucking subscribers of the libertarian subreddit apparently. Considering the majority of people on this page support socialist Bernie.
Last_Construction455@reddit
I heard he intentionally wants to sink the value of the US dollar as well as cause a recession to lower interest rates as they have a massive refinance on debt coming up. This would explain these decisions.
brian_the_human@reddit
He is on record saying he wants to weaken the dollar. I won’t go so far as to say it’s a conspiracy so he can refi cheaper, but he definitely wants to weaken the dollar
Last_Construction455@reddit
It's just funny that everyone takes him at face value. There's obviously some strategy behind these decisions. He comes off as a buffoon because he just spouts off. I'm not arguing that it's a good idea, but its definitely not about fentanyl coming across the border or foreign company DEI policies as he says.
Gobiego@reddit
I'm not a fan of waving the big hammer, or tariffs in general. Looking at the graphic he is showing, it looks like countries levy significantly higher tariffs against the US than we do against them. That doesn't look like the level playing field we would want. When other countries are artificially stacking their market against your products, why wouldn't a policy of matching tariffs encourage lowering them all around?
wsch@reddit (OP)
Because he is lying to you! The Chart is fake, he is counting on people not fact checking him and/or he is incredibly dumb and doesn’t actually understand tariffs. Either way its frightening he is in charge.
Let’s look at the EU. The average tariffs levied, on the US is 2.7%, not 39%! 39% is the US trade deficit with Europe divided by total exports . 235 billion / 605 billion. As I am sure you aware, this is obviously way different than an tariff and not even a bad thing, as us is service based economy. Think about all the money tech companies make there without exporting anything to EU.
PickleRickyyyyy@reddit
Okay. Then explain what is the point of lying?
I will play.
wsch@reddit (OP)
To confuse ignorant people. If the EU were really levying 39 % tariffs his actions might look a tiny bit more reasonable. I mean he does this with everything. He will say an outlandish lie. People with common sense will understand it is obvious BS or fact check it. Low information people will accept it at face value either through naïveté or because they want the lie to be true.
It’s like when he said the US government was giving hamas 50 million dollars for condoms. Most people think, ok that’s insane if true but is most likely not true. And sure enough it turns out to be a bullshit claim. But people I know told me about it weeks after it had been debunked.
Or when he pushed the Obama Kenya lie. He knows it is bullshit but some of his fans just eat it up because they want it to be true.
As a tangent I think some of his supporters just don’t want to admit it they have been taken by an obvious conman and so for that reason they believe his BS unquestioned. People don’t want to admit they were duped. Personally I don’t think people should feel bad we all get played by politicians sometimes.
PickleRickyyyyy@reddit
Right. So, what is stopping the rest of the world and coming out saying these are all just “lies?”
Because it isn’t.
In order for a lie to be a lie - everyone else has to go with it.
Same bullshit the republicans were trying to pass during covid saying it was a lie.
I would be more impressed with the world if all the governments could come together and lie unanimously about covid/tariffs.
You know what is more scary?
You being either a Russian/Chinese spy trying to disrupt everything or worse….you work for a corrupt three letter agency trying to also cause chaos in this country.
You spooks are a plague on this app.
konsyr@reddit
And thank you for demonstrating quite clearly why he lies: No matter how much, often, and who debunks it, his core audience laps it up. There's literally no source of truth for these people, except their Lord and Savior's mouth.
The Internet and threads are filled to the brim with people coming and saying they're lies, with numbers, facts, and corroboration. There's no redeeming people still enraptured by Supreme Leader.
wsch@reddit (OP)
100%, it is a cult of personality. Mao could do no wrong to his followers. Trump is tanking the global economy out of spite and no understanding of economics and his supporters cheer it on. Imagine if a democrat did this. They would be (rightfully ) impeached.
wsch@reddit (OP)
I’ve been on Reddit for over 10 years. This is the dumbest fucking thing I have ever read on my entire time on the site.
“ In order for a lie to be a lie - everyone else has to go with it.”
That is not true and you know it. First of all that’s not how lies work. If I state an obvious lie, no one has to believe it for the lie to be true. Furthermore, the rest of the world is saying that these are lies / incorrect data.
I point out obvious logical flaws in Trumps statements and you resort to calling me a spy. And you don’t even address the substance of my arguments? At least I won this argument, you always know you win an argument when the other side resorts to name calling / baseless claims .
wsch@reddit (OP)
Hmm I had a long response looks like it got deleted.
in short, why does any politician lie, to convince people of something especially when the truth is a weak argument.
PickleRickyyyyy@reddit
Oh no. I read it and responded. Spook.
harty-@reddit
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I would think if this is pushed along side a massive cut to things like income tax it could work. Yes added cost to goods, but an increase to money in people's wallet would in some ways offset, no?
Roctopuss@reddit
Most poor people don't pay income tax, tho.
harty-@reddit
Since when is it "most"? I'm looking at Federal rates even the lowest 10% bracket starts at $0 (IMO the income tax there should be 0% to begin with). Unless the conversation you're eluding to is those who are poor, and not taking an income then wouldn't it fall mostly into 2 buckets?
Those who can work and get an income, but choose not to. It would be hard to have much sympathy for this group.
Those who are unable to work for an income (like a disability, mental health etc.). Then that would be a separate discussion on how they are helped through different public or private services
ConvenientlyHomeless@reddit
Can someone here elaborate on the reasoning on why trade deficits aren’t inherently bad? I’m reading on it but the author didn’t go into too much detail on that.
Brief-Objective-3360@reddit
You technically have a trade deficit with your local supermarket. You're giving them money to "import" their food to your house. Sure, to amend this trade deficit you could grow your own food so you could never have to go to the supermarket, or you could sell stuff to the supermarket so they're paying you money instead, but sometimes it's more logical to just buy the damn groceries.
Trump put a 47% tariff on Madagascar because they tariff American agriculture produce (20%), and also because America has a trade deficit with them. But the reason for that trade deficit is mainly because Madagascar exports a lot of vanilla to the US. In fact 80% of the world's vanilla is from Madagascar. So the trade deficit is because Madagascar has a near monopoly on this random resource that America uses and would be unlikely to produce in the states. Is it really a problem that America isn't making vanilla? Well now because of this tariff, all the vanilla imported from the main country that produces it is going to cost Americans 47% more to buy.
CT_Throwaway24@reddit
This is a good metaphor. I'm stealing it.
Jcbm52@reddit
A trade (actually a current account) deficit just represents that your country is being financed (if I sell you 2 apples for one dollar and you sell me one, you have one dollar now, that you can use in the future to buy me something), that is, the economic agents are going into "debt" (accruing payments) with foreign agents, and that is not inherently bad.
If a country is not competitive, being financed so that it can become more productive and be competitive again is fine, and that implies running into a trade deficit. Picture it: a country is not competitive, so it has the ability to give out papers in exchange for machines and, once the machines are working, take back those papers in exchange for goods produced by it.
In the case of the US, since everyone wants dollars (many more countries use it as national currency, for example) you can just give out a LOT of papers and get goods in return, and usually those dollars won't ever come back. Imports are the "return" and exports are the "cost", being able to import a lot without exporting is a bargain, and the US can afford it because everyone wants to finance the US (countries using dollars as currency, people wanting to buy stock, ... All of that contributes to the deficit, and it isn't inherently bad)
Inner-Stomach-1642@reddit
Free markets encourage specialization, everyone benefits from complementary specialization. You don't grow your own food, build your own house... Instead you work in a specialized role, receive payment, and buy those services. You have deficit with your plumber. When was the last time he paid you? That ungrateful fuck, just using you as his piggy bank.
Similarly the US import some consumer goods from countries with cheap labor, industrial machinery and chemicals from the EU. Specialized economies that complement each other thrive. But right now, the US is barking to do its own plumbing.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=USA-EU_-_international_trade_in_goods_statistics
Ps. The average EU tariff on the US is 1% weighted across all trade, now the US will have 31% tariffs on imports from the EU, a "discounted tariff". This policy is a little red.
lurreal@reddit
You can have a trade deficit with a country and a surplus with other. You can also be so rich and productive compared to everyone else that you just have that surplus avilable to buy from outside. Second reason is basically the US, it produces the kost value out of any country on earth, so it has more purchasing power than everyone else. You can't buy if you don't produce, it's not like a trade eeficit means companies are handing out their money for free to foreigners
influenzadj@reddit
One example is coffee. A bunch of relatively poor countries, who do not have the money to buy American goods, sell coffee to the US and create a trade deficit. Who cares?
We invented money specifically so we didn't have to sell Teslas to Cambodians in exchange for t-shirts. On the topic of cambodia, they'd have to spend a third of their GDP on US products to remove these tarriffs/deficit. Thay wouldn't be possible even if the US made shit they want.
ycpa68@reddit
Trade benefits both parties or it wouldn't happen. You run a massive trade deficit with your local grocery store, but you're happy to do it because you receive things you want in exchange for your money. That's the simplest way I can put it, it's obviously a bit more complex than that when you introduce elasticity.
Witty_Ad4683@reddit
So, we're getting the largest tax increase on the US consumer via tariffs, while congress is actively pushing through the largest tax cut in history for corporations and the top 1%. Also, government spending in the poorest counties in America is essentially being reduced to 0. Is this what winning feels like?
kypebala@reddit
So basically a sales tax, that the consumer don't see on the bill but indirectly pays for...
ccarbonstarr@reddit
Federal sales tax
I can't understand why conservatives/Republicans/trump voters are cheering this on.
I thought they hated taxes?
Abraxas514@reddit
It's diffe(R)ent
Olieskio@reddit
They never did, its just a different colored shitpile on the other side of the coin
90Valentine@reddit
Yes but now also paying higher sales tax in addition to the tariff
the2xstandard@reddit
Sales taxes are primarily a tax on poor people.
jmmgo@reddit
It's probably the biggest tax hike America has ever seen. It's really sad to see what the GOP and conservatives have turned into.
This is evil beyond measure.
Diablo3crusader@reddit
He’s a moron that cares nothing for those of us who aren’t ultra wealthy. This is basically an inflationary tax that us consumers will be forced to pay.
Dapper0248@reddit
We’ll see in a few months.
wsch@reddit (OP)
You are right. We will see but there is a reason economists conservative and liberal were against this. It’s so stupid and done in the most asinine way.
Dapper0248@reddit
Economists themselves have differing opinions on a number of things ( austrian vs keynesian etc)
Liberals, well we know why they are against
Conservatives are divided on this, just look at conservative sub
wsch@reddit (OP)
Yeah economist can be divided on many different things. And you can always find a small subset of a group of experts to disagree with the consensus no matter how crazy. But when you have multiple noble prize winning economist stating this is a bad idea, it’s worth listening. As with all of these things there are always crackpots. How many top economist support these tariffs? I bet you can find a few.
And let’s be real, if Trump were anti tariff all of a sudden his supporters would be to. No republicans were arguing for tariffs before him. The Republican Party is a cult of personality around Trump at this point. That’s why you see.m his supporters and politicians who would (rightfully) call democrats communist for embracing these policies, supporting them.
Furthermore, even those in favor of tariffs would not implement in this way. This is a joke. This is how a 14 year old who waited til the last minute does things. Did you see the methodology they used?
Dapper0248@reddit
Eh trump is taking advice from a few top economists on these plans, kevin hasset, stephan miran
ningyna@reddit
The trump administration knowingly are lying in the release about tariffs
https://x.com/jamessurowiecki/status/1907559189234196942?s=61&t=rEIeOxQ7rt5fcGiUsmGEPw
International_Fig262@reddit
This lets the orange princeling act out his power fantasy. Prices will shoot up and growth will slow to a crawl, but at least he gets to act like king in the castle.
NeverComments@reddit
This is great news if you love paying taxes and were itching to pay even more on imports.