Hamas will not respond to Israel's counter Gaza ceasefire proposal, official says

Posted by GothicGolem29@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 385 comments

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KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit

Israel breaks every single agreement they make?

They do so with impunity and without any consequence.

No I think you don’t understand what they mean by chosen people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

So you do support colonising and supporting Palestinians, you just find it awkward trying to justify it.

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Zipz@reddit

Weird how you purposely are ignoring the fact the chosen people isn’t what you guys pretend to be

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

It seems to exactly what it appears to be - a justification for Zionists to set up a Jewish state and expand, attacking the locals.

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Zipz@reddit

So you have no idea

Here’s a chance to educate yourself

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people

Meanwhile we have a lot of people on this sub saying they support a 2SS but the only path to get there is to let Israel expand and brutalise Palestinians forever…

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

How, specifically, is a one state solution accomplished?

No buzzwords allowed. Complete statements required.

Overarching question:

In a one-state solution, how will the group-level right to self-determination for both Jews and Palestinians be respected?

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

You are hung up on the exclusive, zero sum game thinking that is so prevalent in Israel. Palestinians don’t want an exclusively Muslim state or a Muslim/Christian state that is devoid of all non-Muslims or Christians. So why do Israeli Jews want a majority Jewish state? Is a state of all its citizens really such a horrible idea? What will an exclusively Jewish state give Israelis other than the right to discriminate against and victimise non-Jews?

You’re in North America. Does the law discriminate against Jews? Do You feel less Jewish living somewhere where everyone has equal rights regardless of religion? Do you feel the need to protest for and pass laws that advantage Jews or any other group over everyone else?

And to answer your first question last, BDS. It worked in South Africa.

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Theamazingquinn@reddit

You just answered your own question?

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travistravis@reddit

I've always kind of thought/wondered how much of western (Christian) zionism is just straight up racism/antisemitism. Like "you were chosen by God and that he thinks you should have this land ... (very very far away, and specifically somewhere not near us)".

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Why is it incumbent on everyone else to learn about specificities of a particular religion? For example, I know the great schism had something to do with whether the communion cracker was actually Jesus's body vs a representation. That's all I need to know, I have about the same amount of tolerance for learning in depth religious doctrine as I do for listening to someone tell me about Warhammer 40k lore (2 min, then I'm out).

Learning about the Jewish concept of "being chosen" through an evangelical lens is just as inaccurate and antisemitic as learning about it through an anti-Zionist lens.

I can agree with that. Fwiw, I grew up fundi and the adults around me were convinced that Isreal had to be completely unified to make the rapture happen and the rapture/end of the world was desirable for some reason. Those folks are nuttier than squirrel shit.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Because if you’re gonna invoke an aspect of someone’s tribal identity in order to criticize them, then you should probably actually know what that aspect of their identity means to them, not what it means to people who already hate them anyway.

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Snatchamo@reddit

Sure, but I think that people saying that have other, larger, issues with Israel and just say that too be catty. Like, if I had never heard of the concept of "chosen people" it wouldn't change the way I feel about Israel's conduct at all. Similar to the "most moral army" thing.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Yeah, but this kind of “cattiness” crosses the line from being snarky into actual antisemitism. It’s taking a piece of Jewish identity and acting like the behavior of the Israeli state is “evidence” that this piece of Jewish identity is bad/evil.

It’s not saying Israel is bad because of an Israeli government policy; it’s saying that Israel is bad because of a piece of Jewish identity.

To put it a different way, it’s not saying that Israel is evil because of what it does; it’s saying that Israel is bad because of an ancient piece of Jewish identity.

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TearOpenTheVault@reddit

It’s not even an antizionist lens, it’s straight up antisemitic. The idea that Jews believe they’re chosen by God and therefore have a right to [insert whatever the speaker wishes to attribute to Jews] is a stone cold classic.

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HugsForUpvotes@reddit

"God's chosen people" is how every religion sees themselves. Also, in Judaism specifically, it means we were chosen to have to follow God's rules. It's more of a curse than a sign of supremacy.

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Minimum_Guitar4305@reddit

God's chosen people" is how every religion sees themselves.

Wrong... so wrong. Most major religions are universalist and not ethnocentric.

Buddhism & Hinduism being the most obvious examples, but most Christian sects and even Islam are universalist too.

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Most at least, church of Satan I don't have to follow God's rules.

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Zipz@reddit

Exactly his point

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Minimum_Guitar4305@reddit

God's chosen people" is how every religion sees themselves.

Wrong... so wrong. Most major religions are universalist and not ethnocentric.

Buddhism & Hinduism being the most obvious examples, but most Christian sects and even Islam are Universalist too.

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Whaboutism that isn’t even true, crazy

Palestinians can’t target anything accurately, their shelling equipment is indiscriminate

Not that it stops them from regularly launching them at civilians nowhere near military targets. Which literally no one tries to deny except obvious Jihadists like yourself that care nothing for the Palestinian people, and just want Israel gone

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

Not that it stops them from regularly launching them at civilians nowhere near military targets.

They're faced with no choice, Israel has admitted to using human shields after all.

Which literally no one tries to deny except obvious Jihadists like yourself that care nothing for the Palestinian people

Yeah man, what kind of monster would defend a country targeting civilians.

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JIMMY_JAMES007@reddit

Whataboutism x 2.

They do have a choice, that choice is to stop being evil rapist fucktards justifying their citizens deaths as consequences of their holy war. They target civilians, they hide under their own civilians and base themselves out of hospitals. They would not care in the slightest if Israel were actually using human shields, so your whole dumbass argument makes no sense anyway.

What kind of monster would defend a govt torturing and executing their own citizens as they protest? You. Because you do not care about them.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

They do have a choice, that choice is to stop being evil rapist fucktards

Yeah, imagine that, a country defending it's military raping. Couldn't happen anywhere else huh.

They target civilians,

Those civilians are, as we established, human shields.

they hide under their own civilians and base themselves out of hospitals.

See? Human shields justify any atrocity.

They would not care in the slightest if Israel were actually using human shields, so your whole dumbass argument makes no sense anyway

Now who's trying to pull a what about.

Of course, I believe that this is horrible and Hamas shouldn't do it.

Any comments on the Israeli army's use of human shields?

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JIMMY_JAMES007@reddit

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

Whataboutism aside...

They would not care in the slightest if Israel were actually using human shields, so your whole dumbass argument makes no sense anyway

The US and UK took away ALL of their land to give it to Israel long before that. You can't just steal something, give back a bit of it and claim to be the good generous one.

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ElHumanist@reddit

Why did you put all in capital letters when that is a blatantly false statement?

My understanding is that Palestinians tried to ethnically cleanse Jews from the land and failed many times. These failed attempts to commit genocide against Jews in Israel, something you support, led to Palestinians not having control of Gaza. Israel then gave it back for nothing in return.

It is also important to know "Palestinians", which didn't exist at the time, were the bad guys in World War 1 who tried to conquer the world. They lost the war and lost ownership and control of that land. That is how the world worked then and always had before.

You anti semites don't care about facts though, so here we are.

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mind-d@reddit

It's important to distinguish between everyday Gazans and Hamas. Hamas has said they're going to keep doing October 7ths, and Hamas won't negotiate in good faith. Many Gazans have protested Hamas, and have been tortured as a result.

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ElHumanist@reddit

It is important for you acknowledge that Hamas are Palestinians(not some foreign group of random rascals), Palestinians democratically elected them to represent their values, and their support has only grown since October 7th and the 2006 elections. The world is not black and white kid.

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jaynic1@reddit

Palestinians democratically elected them to represent their values

2 decades ago and an election hasn't been held since.

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ElHumanist@reddit

and their support has only grown since October 7th and the 2006 elections. The world is not black and white kid.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Good.

It is insane how you anti semites can't read basic English.

It is important for you acknowledge that Hamas are Palestinians(not some foreign group of random rascals), Palestinians democratically elected them to represent their values, and their support has only grown since October 7th and the 2006 elections. The world is not black and white kid.

Read that till you are able to addreds it without deflecting or straw manning me

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Sucrose-Daddy@reddit

Of course support for Hamas has grown. When given only two options between a hypernationalist terror group or an invading foreign force that plans to eradicate your nation and people, people will make the same choice over and over again. Do you think terrorist groups just sprout out of the ground because people one day they just decided to be evil? As Americans we should have learned that lesson from 9/11, but here you are defending those that create terror groups by inflicting pain, suffering, and death to entire groups of innocent people. You want to talk about deflection? What about your side’s inability to question Israel without immediately grasping at the word “antisemite”?

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MCRN-Tachi158@reddit

Not only two options. Gazans support Hamas over Fatah.

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ElHumanist@reddit

You want to talk about deflection? What about your side’s inability to question Israel without immediately grasping at the word “antisemite”?

You say that with zero irony or self awareness. If wasn't aware how you anti semites reason, I would literally think you were trolling or a shill.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

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Least_Turnover1599@reddit

Democratically elected hamas HAHA.

Someone doesn't know what bibi did over the past decade to ensure hamas ends up as the group in power. Fine argue in bad faith with incomplete information.

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ElHumanist@reddit

The last election was over a decade ago, so your defense of the desire to indiscriminately murder Jews in Israel is not rational. Bibi is a fascist, fraud, and war criminal who should in all likelihood be tried in the Hague, that doesn't change the fact that as his head of state, he obviously has a responsibility to prevent future October 7ths from even being POSSIBLE. That has been the logic and justifications for many of the things you demonize and assume things about, like blockades.

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Hamas won a plurality of the votes, in no way did they win an overwhelming majority. If you have to lie about literally every detail to make your views make sense maybe you need tl reevaluate your views.

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JIMMY_JAMES007@reddit

In Gaza 2005, 75 of 118 seats, 7/10 councils https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jan/29/israel

Palestinian legislative election 74/132. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

This my stupid friend, is called a majority. Considering how tight races can be, most would even call it a landslide victory.

“Without a shred of irony” He ironically states, as he calls someone a liar whilst actively lying lmfao

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EH1987@reddit

Palestinians gave them an overwhelming majority vote

If you have to change terms mid argument to make yours make sense maybe don't call others stupid. You didn't specify Gaza and now you're trying to move the goalpost.

They won about 45% of the votes which is a plurality.

You're also lying in your premise that Palestinians voted for Hamas for their jihadist platform which is just not the case as they were primarily seen as a less corrupt alternative to Fatah which is shown in the polls.

>Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition

Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8% Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9% Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2% Hamas government priorities: 1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment Support for Hamas' impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative - 28.5% Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; No – 18.6% Rejection of Fatah's decision not to join a national unity government: Yes – 72.5%; No – 27.5% Satisfaction with election results: 64.2% satisfied; 35.8% dissatisfied

Further down:

However, new polling following the election indicated that two-thirds of Palestinians believed Hamas should change its policy of rejecting Israel's right to exist. Most also supported a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Post-election polls indicated that Hamas' victory was due largely to Palestinians' desire to end corruption in government rather than support for the organization's political platform.

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ElHumanist@reddit

I would hope they be honest and strive for real deals that will bring about peace.

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Least_Turnover1599@reddit

what can jews in Israel do

Not colonize and settle on Palestinian homes is a small step forward. While we're at it maybe reduce violations of human rights against women in prisons. Feels like a good step too. After all, in the area only one group is backed by the premier western powers, maybe hold up to those standards. Don't kidnap or murder reporters/activists I feel like I shouldn't say that but it needs to be said. But I feel like the IDF won't be happy with these changes.

Irony of your generalization of the two groups is not lost on me. As long as you dehumanize the people of the conflict in to broad groups, there will be no reaching you.

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mind-d@reddit

Claiming that Gazans support Hamas is very black and white, kid.

There hasn't been an election since 2006. When the election was held it was for seats in a parliament. Hamas won a certain number of seats, and then after an armed conflict between Hamas and Fatah, installed a totalitarian Hamas government in Gaza.

You very literally don't know what you're talking about. This is basic political history of the region.

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ElHumanist@reddit

You anti semites conveniently pick and choose what you think you can address while ignoring everything else you think you can't.

and their support has only grown since October 7th and the 2006 elections.

Stop being willfully ignorant.

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mind-d@reddit

Antisemitism is serious, and this is not antisemitism. It's an accounting of basic political history. And the recent protests in Gaza against Hamas would say otherwise.

I am Jewish and lived in Israel for most of this war. I have seen Gaza with my own eyes. I am informing you, you are in the wrong.

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ElHumanist@reddit

You are in a unique position to educate me. What can Jews in Israel do to prevent their indiscriminate rape and slaughter from Palestinians from Gaza?

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mind-d@reddit

You can start by asking good faith questions.

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CricketJamSession@reddit

You mean it was handled just like now when you're diverting and not explain how israel could not and do not kill way more civilian if genocide is their intend

But i didn't come to talk to you about slurs which also you diverting from the main point which is that hamas can't do shit to protect the palestinians so surrendering would not mean "surrender to genocide" and that they are clearly lost and should surrender and save their people and israeli people from further misery and not act all big and demand better conditions for themselves on the expense of palestinian suffering

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UndocumentedMartian@reddit

Read what genocide means. According to the globally accepted definition Israel is committing a genocide. And I'm pretty sure that your understanding and opinion on genocide isn't valid compared to that of the ICJ.

The Europeans that became Israelis have been murdering Palestinians since before Hamas existed. You should read about how the occupation began. Genocide would continue even if Hamas surrendered because Hamas is not the problem. If they were then Israel wouldn't have funded them against the entity that accepted a 2 state solution. Hamas wouldn't have come to power without Israeli help. It's also not just about religion or an occupation. There are resources to be exploited.

This is a clear case of Europeans and their descendants finding a place, liking it, violently occupying it and committing genocide against the natives. This isn't the first time it's happened.

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CricketJamSession@reddit

You trying to throw random arguments to air only to deflect my simple argument that hamas can't do shit against "genocide" or occupation and moreover you can see a clear correlation between hamas launching suprise terror attacks and keeping on the fighting and the suffering of the palestinians and loss of land

So the argument that hamas should not surrender because "the genocide and occupation would escalate" is absolutely ridiculous.

The Europeans that became Israelis have been murdering Palestinians since before Hamas existed

Can you please point me to where is said Israel is ignoring Hamas?

I said pretty clearly that Israel has been unable to achieve its stated military goals and as a result, resorts to collective punishment in the form of civilians.

Hamas is a guerilla warfare organisation. They dont have a standing army, airforce not navy. They fight with the weapons they can smuggle in and are made up of the local population, much like similar resistance forces facing brutal occupations the world over.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Hamas has seen its numbers tripple in the last 2 years.

Very cool, who will feed, train and equip all these new recruits?

Every single Gazan could join the al-Qassam Brigades and it wouldn't change the fact that Hamas' military organization has been completely wrecked. Hamas' armed wing was structured like a state military, with a well-trained officer corps, organized into doctrinally-correct echelons from the brigade down to the squad level.

You can't rebuild that capability by increasing recruitment.

Israel (with every single advantage possible) can't achieve a single one of its military goals

The destruction of Hamas' military capabilities was definitely achieved. Hamas' main strategic threat to Israel, its missile arsenal, has been mostly destroyed. Hamas' armed wing has lost most of its trained fighters and experienced commanders. Hamas has no way to replenish these capabilities in the short-mid term future.

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KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit

Hamas military is primarily a guerilla warfare organization lol.

Telling Palestinians to take the peaceful option and end the war is a bad thing ?

See this the problem you don’t actually care about Palestinian nor their lives. They are a tool against Israel for you. It’s sad and you don’t even hide it. You want revenge you don’t want peace

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travistravis@reddit

You're ignoring the part that "surrendering" means they still have a strong possibility of death, and if they do stay alive, still most likely facing starvation, forced displacement, being separated from people they know who are still alive, never having a chance to get their homes or livelihood back, and probably living as refugees somewhere for the rest of their lives.

For many people, if not most people, keeping someone's body alive, while systematically stripping away every other good thing for that person is not really "caring about their lives"

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

Nah, if Israel offered a two-state solution along the 1967 borders in exchange for the surrender and expulsion of Hamas, I would support that, and I think most Palestinians would.

The thing is, even if this war ends, the West Bank is still occupied, illegal settlements are still being built, apartheid is still ongoing, and racial segregation is still happening. There will be another war.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

That is a good question, what's stopping Hamas from completely surrendering? It worked out so well in the west bank and in Lebanon, I don't see why Hamas doesn't want to emulate that.

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The problem is they are not fighting Hamas, but killing civilians

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

And the problem is that, as has been shown recently, even if Hamas accept the terms Israel will inevitably break the ceasefire and start killing Palestinians again while claiming victimhood and self defence.

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GothicGolem29@reddit (OP)

The previous ceasefife broke down once stage 1 ended and the sides could not agree a way forward so this new proposal could be kept for the duration

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

No, the previous ceasefire broke down because Netanyahu had to pass the budget or an election would be called. To pass the budget he needed Ben Gvir and Smotrich back on side. To do that he needed to end the ceasefire.

According to Hamas, Israel is fighting Hamas.

The idea that Israel is bizarrely ignoring Hamas & leaving its fighters untouched while it kills random people instead just isn't grounded in reality.

We saw anti-Zionists make the same claim about Hezbollah, e.g. that the IDF was simply killing Lebanese civilians and that Hezbollah's combat strength was mostly untouched. This was proven to be spectacularly untrue, and un-ignorable, when the Assad regime collapsed in dramatic fashion, in part due to Hezbollah's inability to save it given the weakened state of the group.

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GothicGolem29@reddit (OP)

They are doing both they have assassinated several Hamas leaders and Hamas members of the defacto gov snd killed alot of civs

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kitti-kin@reddit

Uh, those post-WWI demands came back to bite them in the ass. The lesson of history there is not that the winners can demand whatever they want with no expectation of future repercussions.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

The lesson of history there is not that the winners can demand whatever they want with no expectation of future repercussions.

For sure, but the inverse of this is also not true, e.g. that losers and winners of a war negotiate from a position of equality.

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DennisHakkie@reddit

DennisHakkie@reddit

Look. I really don’t care how you call the people held in Gaza by Hamas. Not the point I wanted to make. Call them what you want

My point is; if instead of talking and getting bombed because “they have no leverage” they should; in my honest opinion; just send a body bag with a dead Israeli back.

With a lot of letters and “you know. Please keep bombing us if you want this to continue”

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travistravis@reddit

Yeah, I suppose hoping that any international community might stop a country from killing thousands of children just for the sake of not killing children might be a bit naive of me.

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Actively ignoring that Israel is starving the people of Gaza?

How long do you think until we start seeing people die of starvation?

Because I guarantee you Hamas would love to see that since it would make Israel look 100x worse.

Israel’s prime minister is already wanted for starvation now imagine it starts happening on a mass scale they would think of it as a victory.

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GothicGolem29@reddit (OP)

It makes Israel bad yes but also Hamas for not begetting and their actions I. Causing the war hence the protests against Hamas

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

I’m confused why are you supporting Israel if they’re literally starving pregnant women?

Do you support the starvation of babies in their wombs?

How does Israel blocking aid since march 2nd make Hamas look bad?

Its not Hamas fault Israel is blocking aid and Israel’s prime minister is wanted internationally for starvation

If I punched you knowing you’d kill me if I punched you you’d still go to jail for killing me lol

So why’s this any different?

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GothicGolem29@reddit (OP)

I’m not supporting them? I’m criticising Hamas that doesn’t mean I support Israel

No.

Because Hamas had refused to accept several offers or in this case even respond which then means they aren’t stopping the violence Israel is doing. Plus their terrorism started the war in the first place an attack that everyone including PA officials knew would cause a war and lots of death in Gaza.

It’s Hamas fault the war continued when they could get a ceasefire in fact it’s Hamas fault the war happened in the first place. Sure Israel is the one starving people but Hamas is playing a part in causing war conditions where Israel will do that stuff

This is different because Hamas caused the war within which Israel does this stuff. Everyone knew how Israel would respond that it would be war and innocents would be killed. And Hamas had the ability to accept the ceasefire offers and end the killing but they refuse

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

I think that's reasonable but if you think it's ridiculous, then unfortunately, the war will have to continue until someone changes their mind.

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Ala117@reddit

And that someone else is israel?

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No they didn’t lol the closest they got to was Israel still controls parts of the West Bank

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ShikaStyleR@reddit

In 2008 Israel offered 96% of the west bank, east Jerusalem and an extra 4% as territory from Israel to compensate for the 4%.

That was an amazing offer and the best they could ever imagine getting, the palestinians still rejected it.

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

So you’re telling me because they rejected an offer that wasn’t 100% of the land international law says is theirs it’s justified to commit starvation ethnic clensing, unlawful occupation, apartheid and racial segregation?

lol

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ShikaStyleR@reddit

Like it’s not the Jews fault Germany kicked them out and slaughter them.

“There’s no racial segregation”

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/experts-hail-icj-declaration-illegality-israels-presence-occupied

They did it’s called the haavrat agreement nazis literally sent Jews to Palestine if they gave up all their belongings the Nazis and Zionists have a coin made together because of that agreement.

https://images.app.goo.gl/B8ZNyW1ojUHYzbsd9

Listen buddy why would Palestinians surrender when there’s people like you all about Israel??

You just justified the starvation of babies who aren’t even born and you want Palestinians to surrender there’s all types of people like you in the Israeli government and for that reason they cannot surrender.

Ahhh so you’re Israeli makes sense why you would justify the starvation of Palestinians.

Anyways enjoy life you sick fuck hopefully what goes around doesn’t come back around for your sake.

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ShikaStyleR@reddit

You forget that the Palestinians started "resisting" before the Jews even started being violent. For example the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Jafa in 1920 and from Hebron (literally the second most important city in Judaism) in 1929.

If the Jews ethnically cleansed Germans from Hamburg in 1930, things would be very different.

I don't care what an advisory opinion says, there's no racial difference between Palestinians and Israelis.

The Haavara agreement was an heroic agreement by Irgun that saved thousands of lives.

What goes around is already coming back around. We didn't start this conflict, they did.

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

All this to justify starving pregnant women, babies the elderly and the disabled.

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Ala117@reddit

Pretty sure those were demands for them to take Palestinians in their countries aka help them with their ethnic cleansing,also Palestinian authority? Lol

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

It’s Israel’s fault Hamas existed in the first place the occupation of Gaza is what created Hamas

There was settlements in Gaza before Hamas was even created yet nobody stopped the illegal settlements so I don’t blame anyone but the Israelis

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HugsForUpvotes@reddit

I don't agree with you, but our opinions do not matter. What matters is Hamas has less leverage then they did before October 7th and the ensuing war they started and lost. Right now, they are killing Palestinian protesters to hold onto power.

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

It’s not my opinion though it’s facts lmfao you even said you don’t disagree.

Yes that’s true but Israel is literally starving every Palestinian women child and infant and even those in their mothers wombs right now as we speak while Hamas is trying to hold onto power.

Do you support the starvation of pregnant women disabled children and new born babies?

Last elections were in 2005 my dude lol

Imagine trying to justify innocent children starvation by saying Hamas is an elected government.

Bro Israel is not the allied forces Israel’s prime minister is wanted for starvation internationally they’re more related to Nazi germany then the allies.

Gaza is as big as a small part of London lol they have no space.

Hamas don’t have to surrender since Israel occupies Palestine have a right to armed resistance. If Israel doesn’t like that then let them get rid of their occupation apartheid racial segregation and illegal settlements.

How do you expect Hamas to surrender while Israel’s still building illegal settlements?

There’s no aid trucks even going into Gaza to steal lol that’s why Israel’s prime minister is wanted for starvation.

It’s not a bomb strike to starve pregnant women, children and disabled people you’re delusional lmfao

All this to justify starvation of pregnant women and children I truly hope no countries does that to your women and children even though you wish it onto others.

You’re truly a sick fuck.

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HugsForUpvotes@reddit

Hamas don’t have to surrender since Israel occupies Palestine have a right to armed resistance. If Israel doesn’t like that then let them get rid of their occupation apartheid racial segregation and illegal settlements.

Why do you even pretend to have all the arguments you gave before this if you are going to then support Hamas. War it is then. It sure is brave of you to fight to the last Palestinian from the safety of your keyboard.

You have no understanding of what you're talking about. Also, the only real study into Israeli aid only looked at a six month period and found that Israel was providing well above the minimum requirement at 3,000 calories per day per person, BUT people were still starving because Hamas was stealing the aid and selling it so poor Gazans had no access to the aid. I'm unaware of any situation similar to this historically where a country provided this much aid to their enemies civilians.

Also, the amount of civilians dead in WW2 would be roughly the same as if you had the cumulative death toll of this Palestinians and Israeli conflict since Israel was created and has that many deaths every single day since the Oct 7th attack. Oh and the Gaza Strip is dense, but there are a lot of rural areas within Gaza such as Wadi Al-Salqa. More than enough space to take Israel on in a combat where no civilians would be in the way. They don't do that. They know they'd lose, they are cowards, and they would rather their wife and children die than themselves. It's barbaric. Hamas is barbaric.

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

All this to justify starvation

Would you support the starvation of Israeli civilians?

Israel occupied the Sinai. Made peace with Egypt anyway.

Israel occupied the West Bank. Made peace with Jordan anyway.

Why didn't you mention the other neigbours Israel occupies btw? Syria and Lebanon?

They're like Palestine, not willing to make peace yet. Very sad thing.

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KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit

I'm sensing a trend here.

Israel and illegal occupations. Name a better combination.

The people of Jordan and Egypt hate Israel btw. It's onlyntheir governemtn that's propped up by the US that caters to the genocidists. Not really the win you think it is lol

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zackweinberg@reddit

I’m glad to see that the power is back on in the Democratic Republic.

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KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit

Democratic peoples republic*

Stocksnsoccer@reddit

Tell that to Jewish State (tm) that has a rabbi saying rape of Palestinians is okay.

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CastleElsinore@reddit

You can find a rabbi that says the moon is made of cheese, and then rabbi will argue over what kind of cheese, and if it's kosher

But unless it was someone with real standing in the government, it doesn't actually matter what one (or even 5!) Rabbi say

A rabbi is just someone who has spent a lot of time learning Jewish law. Jews don't believe rabbi are holier then normal people or are special because of it

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Stocksnsoccer@reddit

This rabbi is the Chief IDF Rabbi. So yeah, he’s someone with real standing in the government. https://forward.com/fast-forward/344783/israel-army-rabbi-once-justified-rape-of-non-jewish-women/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/8/9/everything-is-legitimate-israeli-leaders-defend-soldiers-accused-of-rape

here’s other politicians saying gang rape is okay

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-idf-palestinian-prisoner-alleged-rape-sde-teinman-abuse-protest/ Here’s another one.

https://www.haaretz.com/hblocked?returnTo=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.com%2Fisrael-news%2F2024-06-16%2Fty-article%2Fformer-israeli-mk-quotes-hitler-while-discussing-gaza-war%2F00000190-224f-d231-a1b2-e65f76fe0000

here’s one invoking hitler.

I’m not quoting random civlians, most of whom agree with these guys. I’m quoting the leadership.

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meister2983@reddit

This rabbi is the Chief IDF Rabbi. So yeah, he’s someone with real standing in the government. https://forward.com/fast-forward/344783/israel-army-rabbi-once-justified-rape-of-non-jewish-women/

He did not say "rape of Palestinians" is ok. Covered in his wikipedia article.

Or is it because Hamas are torturing and executing anyone who says they want the war to end? Who could guess.

It is strange that Israel willingly left Gaza as part of the road plan to peace, just for the Palestinians to use it to start bombing them 3 months later. Strange actions from someone that wants their children to go to school

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

Or is it because Hamas are torturing and executing anyone who says they want the war to end? Who could guess.

Yeah man, there's no fucking way to actually look at the place and see whether there are any goddamn buildings still standing there right?

Considering how Hamas doesn't let girls go to school, I wonder how women like rouzan al-najjar got training to be a nurse? Of course, we'll never know because Israel shot her and released doctored video to portray her as a Hamas collaborator.

It is strange that Israel willingly left Gaza as part of the road plan to peace, just for the Palestinians to use it to start bombing them 3 months later.

I once got a week long Reddit ban for wishing the "luxuries" of ghaza on someone talking about the luxurious hotels there, I wonder if that would happen again if I wish you to have the freedom that Israel gave Palestinians, at any point in time.

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JIMMY_JAMES007@reddit

Maybe because every time they’re given freedoms, they just use it to bomb Israel.

Israel didn’t start the war. Since existence, the areas they’ve occupied have been used to bomb and invade them from.

But good job deflecting away from the point that Hamas have shown 0 interest in the welfare of their people ever, and are now torturing and executing them when they are asking for the war to end. Definitely a great govt to support there mate, not at all your countries fault for funding these extremists in the first place.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

Putting aside the murderous hogwash that is the rest of your comment...

deflecting

We were talking about girls going to school in ghaza. Considering girls did go to school before Israel destroyed every university in ghaza through controlled demolition i.e without any conflict, how are their prospects of college?

Genocide supporters and their suspiciously incomplete understanding of the situation.

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JIMMY_JAMES007@reddit

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/04/01/middleeast/uday-rabie-palestinian-tortured-hamas-intl-latam

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AmputatorBot@reddit

It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

You think girls go to school in sharia states?

Stocksnsoccer@reddit

Loool that’s the chief rabbi of the IDF dude it’s not some random dude. Your main guy is saying rape is good.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

If you say so lol

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metamorphotits@reddit

"if you say so"? you do know you could look this up to confirm it, right?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Don’t need to. I’m well educated on civil rights in each major country. Taught about it several times.

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I don’t either I just don’t need to open every link some random terrorist simp screams about

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Cool!

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Level-Technician-183@reddit

I don't think it is good to address israel as "the jewish state" nor make it represent judaism and jews.

Israel wants people to not distinguish between judaism and israel which is wrong but servs their interest since every anti-israel statement will be anti-jews like that even though israel is purely colonial and political entity.

Avaisraging439@reddit

I highly doubt you're in Israel if you're asking for proof. The highest profile case of that was people rushing to the defense of prison guards who committed such actions so they wouldn't get jailed.

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azure_beauty@reddit

The comments prior to mine state that the military is acting on the orders of a rabbi.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Israel was at war with half a dozen Arab nations in the 20th century. They stopped attacking Israel so Israel stopped attacking them.

Send_Nuk3s@reddit

They already invaded us in 1967 and we dealt with them in 73... Muslims and christians together

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Yep, you already lost several wars Israel and finally learned they weren’t going away. Now you have peace and prosperity. Stop siding with the terrorists trying ruin that.

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Prydefalcn@reddit

Now you have peace and prosperity.

You sure you aren't thinking of a different Egypt?

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I can go a step further back, you were still talking about Egypt peace with Israel.

You think Israel is going to invade Egypt if some Palestinian refugees move there?

Why lol

Your country has had no issue having peace with Israel since you stopped attacking them.

I don’t think most Egyptians want anything to do with your warmongering. I think they just want to live a normal 21sf century life.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Yep you’re getting there. Good work!

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Own_Thing_4364@reddit

And I'm convinced you're a Pallywood fucktard.

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one, the fuck does sussy as fuck even imply.

two sure their leader is an ex AQ, however bibi and half of israel government was or trained by known and charged terrorists, or point being that some terrorists are bad but the jewish ones are good?

and three, that ethnic cleansing was done by a minority extremists group that the government didnt ok nor supported, while at the same time was dealing with israel bombing them and the actual pro assad forces were starting up fighting again.

but sure the currently chaotic government is bad because theyre not as stable as a 300 year old government.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

I didn’t say they were bad, I said they were off to a rocky start.

Syria doesn’t recognize Israel as a country and the two have been officially at war since forever. I agree Israel’s actions are aggressive but it makes sense for them to be cautious.

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Killeroftanks@reddit

Besides the fact they're not being cautious. Being cautious is putting more troops on the border and increasing readiness and getting the QRF ready in case something hits the fan.

But what Israel did was closer to the Soviet invasion of Finland.

Actually no it's literally the same fucking thing. Israel is taking land from a neighbor because they believe they're a threat to a nearby city don't mind the fact there are no current threats to the city in question. And just like during the winter war everyone is being a bitch pussy because the cunt of the world is the one causing all of this and no one actually wants to spank their ass for being a massive dick. Which likely would've changed how world war 2 happened.

So at this point Israel is literally using the same ploy fucking Stalin used to illegally invade Finland.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

No one is raining land call down killertankie

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itcheyness@reddit

“The IDF is prepared to stay in Syria for an unlimited amount of time."

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Yep, thanks for backing me up. Like I said, Israel will hold the land until they are sure their civilians aren’t going to be bombed and then move out. Same as Lebanon.

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itcheyness@reddit

When will they be sure?

Never.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

When the border is disarmed. Same as Lebanon. Pretty basic.

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itcheyness@reddit

Same as Ukraine too, right?

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I thought Hamas was only in Gaza? Or is Syria Hamas too now? Will Egypt be Hamas next? Or Jordan?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Hamas is all over, but their power base is in Gaza.

Syria is controlled by ex AQ, but the biggest issue is the new government can’t control Assad loyalists.

Israel has no issues with Jordan and Egypt because they stopped attacking Israel after losing a few wars.

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Own_Thing_4364@reddit

"Done nothing?" Are you a naive idiot or disingenuous moron?

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ultimate_placeholder@reddit

Are you sure about that?

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SaneForCocoaPuffs@reddit

Netanyahu funded Hamas for decades because he uses their existence to prevent the existence of a Palestinian state. He's under investigation now for sending Hamas briefcases of money. A string of terror attacks by Hamas during the election year catapulted politicians like Ben Gvir and Smotrich to the highest seats of power

If Hamas didn't attack on October 7, Israel would never have been able to make an excuse to invade Lebanon or Syria. Proof of this is the fact that it's been decades since Israel has invaded Lebanon and Syria

No group aids Israeli expansionism more than Hamas. They accomplished in a single day what the settler lobby couldn't accomplish in 20 years

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HockeyHocki@reddit

Netanyahu funded Hamas for decades

Seen this nonsense parroted repeatedly on here, complete rubbish

Netanyahu didn't stop money getting into Gaza from Qatar and elsewhere, that does mean he or Israel 'funded Hamas' lmao

If Hamas didn't attack on October 7, Israel would never have been able to make an excuse to invade Lebanon or Syria

Oct 7th was the excuse? it wasn't the year of Hezbollah rocket fire raining down on Northern Israel then.

And weird how this 'expansionist' regime pulls back out in full once the terrorist threat is dealt with. Just like they have every single time they've ever gone into Lebanon.

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ATNinja@reddit

Netanyahu funded Hamas for decades

Netanyahu never gave a cent to hamas. He allowed qatar aid money to hamas. How do you feel about netanyahu not allowing aid into gaza today? Would you have felt better about him withholding aid before 10/7?

The idea that netanyahu is the bad guy for allowing hamas, the government of gaza, to have aid money from qatar is pretty absurd. Netanyahu is a bad guy for alot of reasons like his support of the settlers and invasion of Syria. Getting mad about allowing aid into gaza isn't one of those things.

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L_o_n_g_b_o_i@reddit

Nope. He did it to prevent the formation of a Palestinian state

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JIMMY_JAMES007@reddit

Surprisingly, it was a nuanced decision.

One of the main reasons stated was that they didn’t want Palestinians to keep being poor and starving, as they have nothing to lose and will go to war that much easier. Better to let Qatar fund them and give them something not worth losing so they stay peaceful.

He also did it to help prevent a Palestinian state yes. Not wanting a unified state when they’ve been bombing you nonstop isn’t exactly surprising. They left Gaza as part of the road plan to peace, and it was just used to start shelling Israeli citizens within 3 months.

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ATNinja@reddit

Having an ulterior motive doesn't make it the wrong thing to do. Blocking aid that allows for the functioning of the gaza goverment is definitely worse than allowing it because it keeps the palestinians split.

If anything fatah needs to be defunded, hamas won the last election. If you're going to reunite palestine, hamas has a better claim to being the only goverment.

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SaneForCocoaPuffs@reddit

Aid money is typically disbursed in the form of aid.

When we say “Israel is not allowing aid into Gaza” we don’t mean “countries are trying to send crates of American dollars into Gaza and Israel is blocking them”. We are referring to crates of food, tents, and other supplies.

Gaza needs aid. They don’t need sacks of dollars in burlap sacks with $$ on them.

Your claim that there’s no way to help starving Gazans without sending them literal cash is unwittingly parroting Zionist propaganda. Israel has been claiming that they have to block aid to keep Hamas from using it for military means, and the idea that aid is actual physical money is within their narrative

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ATNinja@reddit

Aid money is typically disbursed in the form of aid.

Actually it is often cash. Specifically in this case Qatar provides a stipend to each gazan like ubi. My understanding is hamas takes 25% as tax though I'd have to do some googling cuz I don't remember the source of that.

When we say “Israel is not allowing aid into Gaza” we don’t mean “countries are trying to send crates of American dollars into Gaza and Israel is blocking them”. We are referring to crates of food, tents, and other supplies.

Now we are. There are different forms of aid. Unrwa for example also needs cash to operate...

Gaza needs aid. They don’t need sacks of dollars in burlap sacks with $$ on them.

During an active war, yes.

Your claim that there’s no way to help starving Gazans without sending them literal cash

I never said that. Qatar provides hamas cash. It's not the only way to help them but it is a way.

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Killeroftanks@reddit

yes unrwa needs cash to operate. so they can buy supplies to get into gaza... wait a second thats just normal aid but slightly more specific aid, like child crutches or specialized wheel chairs. or weird diet foods.

just that israel deems this as illegal war goods, for some reason. lets be honest we all know the reason, its to make life as hard as possible, which is very soviet like.

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ATNinja@reddit

yes unrwa needs cash to operate

Correct. Hamas, as the government of gaza, also needs cash. So do the citizens of gaza.

wait a second thats just normal aid but slightly more specific aid, like child crutches or specialized wheel chairs. or weird diet foods.

Not sure what you're saying here but it is to pay salaries and buy fuel and other basics needed to function.

just that israel deems this as illegal war goods, for some reason. lets be honest we all know the reason, its to make life as hard as possible, which is very soviet like.

Pretty off topic from whether hamas needs cash to run the goverment of gaza and if, pre 10/7, netanyahu could morally withold that cash.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

if you gotta spend it on weapons maybe use them to PROTECT Gaza instead of firing 35k rockets at Tel Aviv lol.

This was the dumbest part of their entire strategy tbh. It takes a lot of time & is not simple to build up a large stockpile of missiles. In Hamas' case it took decades.

After you manage to establish a missile arsenal past a certain size, its main usage is strategic in nature. Actually using it is, ironically, undesirable - since it is so difficult to speedily replace launched projectiles at scale, the main value of your missile arsenal is in its existence, not in its usage. It functions as a type of "Fleet In Being".

In Hamas' case, this "Fleet In Being" was in a perpetually precarious situation, because Hamas lacks air defense systems and in the event of a war, would be unable to protect this strategic asset. Prior to the war in Gaza, Hamas' missile stockpile constituted its primary and potentially only strategic threat to Israel, yet Hamas had no means to actually protect this stockpile, its most valuable military asset.

Then Hamas instigated a war itself anyway. It is nonsensical from a military planning standpoint: Hamas essentially found itself fighting a war in which its main military asset was both useless and doomed, should the war extend for more than a few months.

Hamas' missile stockpiles are now gone, either from usage or from being destroyed by the IDF. Hamas has no ability to build up this arsenal in the short-mid term future. Its negotiating position has been greatly weakened by this.

Why would Hamas knowingly trigger a situation that would inevitably result in the removal of its main strategic threat to Israel?

Probably a variety of answers here, but my belief is that Hamas' leadership had grown used to fighting short, limited wars against Israel that were ended by international diplomatic intervention before Israel could destroy too much of its rocket stockpile. Perhaps they believed that would be the case this time around.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

My take is that they honestly believed that Arab nations would rise up and help them fight Israel. Instead they got a lot of thoughts and prayers. Their main patron, Iran, is suffering from civil unrest and a collapsing economy, so that didn’t help one bit.

As for all that missile info - thanks, some of that I hadn’t considered. I have certainly noticed that Hamas has fired single digit numbers of rockets this year at Israeli cities, as opposed to previous years where they fired thousands

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

No problem, thanks for the reply. The reason that Hamas is firing single digit rockets is because they no longer have enough rockets to fire, and on top of that, it has probably completely depleted its stockpile of more advanced missiles.

Interestingly, speaking of Iran - Iran's two large, massed ballistic missile attacks against Israel in 2024 demonstrated the same missile-arsenal-"Fleet In Being" dynamic even further. Iran expended somewhere between 5-10% of its long-range drone and missile arsenal, a colossal investment that resulted in minimal impact on the battlefield in Gaza or on the wider regional war that the Axis of Resistance was/is conducting against Israel.

Advanced long-range indirect fires systems like this are so difficult to replenish that they are essentially a non-renewable military resource for Iran. Tehran probably calculated that this was an acceptable risk, because it had confidence that it could protect its missile product capabilities. This obviously turned out to be catastrophically wrong, as the IDF destroyed Iran's most advanced air defense systems and significantly degraded its missile production capabilities in just a few days of airstrikes.

Essentially, Iran did the military equivalent of betting 5% of your net worth on a shitty 4-leg parlay just before your salary got cut in half.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

I read a surprisingly dense article about why Iran’s helicopters and commercial planes were failing about 6 months ago. Apparently it’s not easy to get parts when you’re sanctioned so heavily. I can’t imagine getting advanced weaponry is easier than helicopter parts.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Definitely correct, but Iran has found some creative ways to get around the sanctions over the decades. Probably isn't enough to succeed in their regional project, but enough to survive.

Assad was indeed the main go-between. The fall of the Assad regime has essentially destroyed Iran's regional project in the form that it existed in prior to late 2024. Now its a matter of keeping Hezbollah afloat... rebuilding a militia in an isolated enclave, from scratch and at great cost, is not high on Tehran's priority list IMO.