Whats the end game ?
Posted by Tight-Stable9271@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 163 comments
As every society came up with their own system and thought it would be the solution for the previous failed system, and as we are now in capitalism, what do you guys think will mark the end of capitalism and what could potentially grow out of it as a new system? My personal humble hope is that humanity starts to understand at one point in the future that this process of recycling “systems” until they don’t please us or groups anymore will never work. We should grow out of that dome. For example start to govern things locally in a more decentralized world. What are your future predictions? I rlly want to know what would be the most rational prediction, cuz I think about it very often, see people around me suffering alot under such system, its pissing me off being so helpless. I feel like im watching a train clearly railing towards a cliff and I cant help those people inside (maybe im inside too but at least knowing where this train is going). I rlly need some good visions or solutions. You would not be here if you don’t think about possible outcomes for capitalism 2. (first post)
Fearless-Temporary29@reddit
Massive coastal erosion up and down the east coast of Australia .MSM are selling it as an entertainment story.Civilians surfing storm waves etc.
Humanist_2020@reddit
Is there anywhere to go? An island like england?
ElephantContent8835@reddit
I’ll make this short but it’s what I’ve learned. I study ancient humans for a living. My idea was that I could teach living people about the mistakes of the past.
I learned all about the mistakes of the past, which humans make over and over and over again. I also learned that every time they repeated mistakes, they knew exactly what they were doing and didn’t care.
All of this bad behavior is always motivated by two factors hinged on a third- money, power, and greed. In short- humans will never learn, don’t care. As some have said it’s caught up to us this time and extinction of us and nearly everything else is what greed has brought us.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
This. I study ancient history as a hobby and it's this, for thousands and thousands of years, over and over.
But Hegel knew as well.
Bastiproton@reddit
Any examples?
ElephantContent8835@reddit
Yes. The Sahara desert is a great one. This is greatly simplified but- the Sahara used to be a Savannah. During the Bronze Age, they chopped down all the trees for smelting. Never recovered and continues to expand. Countless examples Of humans destroying their environments and going regionally extinct. We’ve just done it in a planet wide scale this time.
JohnleBon@reddit
May I ask, how? Do you find their stone tablets and translate them or something?
If so, that sounds pretty cool.
ElephantContent8835@reddit
Archaeology/anthropology
Sknowles12@reddit
There goes The Age of Aquarius.
StoopSign@reddit
Yeah like two hours ago I was in ketamine euphoria dreaming of a better world and now have no sleep and reading dismal stuff
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
End game? Winner takes all in pyrrhic victory.
Not even exaggerating.
sorry97@reddit
Endgame is WW3 or civil wars breaking out everywhere.
History repeats itself.
indiscernable1@reddit
Collapse
basswired@reddit
idk, maybe we reincarnate our systems along with us. perhaps our bigger cycles of collapse and Renaissance are a spiral.
I don't think there's an end game per se, just the collective suck, or collective prosperity created depending on the dominant experiences of the generation or two before. and it varies by region. right now I think a select few have briefly coinciding goals to build their versions of personal utopia from the rubble. that is definitely not a new trend, but the technology involved makes it much more expedient and grandiose. which means much more indifferent and deadly.
being powerless in the face of cruelty is pretty galling. there is no way to make that comfortable without losing your conscience. do what you can, when you can, that's all we've got.
my predictions are grim. I don't think we, as a species, will have many more cycles of dark age and enlightenment before the earth shakes us loose completely. my hope would be a final balance at something sort of solar punk.
absurdlifex@reddit
The end game is the extinction of our species. I'd recommend enjoying your current life and not worrying about pedantic issues
Tight-Stable9271@reddit (OP)
Its hard, saw a news report that ice bears could go extinct in a few decades - its really hard to see so much suffering for a system that will clearly fail
absurdlifex@reddit
It is unfortunate mainly because it is entirely avoidable.
Or at least it was.
The eventual extinction of our species should bring healing to earth which is one good thing. Overpopulation, pollution, climate change all our own doing.
But tbh even before capitalism established humans had many flaws which led to many wars, rapes and killings for nonsensibility.
Now with capitalism we are doomed 100%.
Most people here think it will happen soon, I get down voted all the time but personally I think we won't experience much drastic change. The only thing I'm making sure is to not have children in order to make sure they don't experience the true collapse
ButterflyAgitated185@reddit
It has always been in the cards for us. People cannot rule other people, at least to their benefit. Greed and corruption will (and has always) supersede the betterment of humans. Something will put an end to these cycles and "reset" human society, even if that means only a fraction of us see it happen.
feo_sucio@reddit
You can personally think whatever you want (re: drastic change), but I need to point out that you probably get downvoted because the science overwhelmingly disagrees with you.
Saturn_winter@reddit
Hey you never know, they could be terminally ill and only have a couple years left, maybe that's why they think they won't see it. ...It's sad that when I just wrote a couple years I knew in the back of my mind that I'm being generous...
Tight-Stable9271@reddit (OP)
We manipulated ourselves into believing our product (money) is worth something and monstrous acts are happening because of that illusion 😡
Eidetic_Illustrator@reddit
Yes, it’s a myth that got too powerful. Elon for example wasn’t happy controlling the fates of the thousands who voluntarily signed up to work at his companies- he wanted/needed to control the fate and outcomes of millions of government workforce members. People know that but they don’t ask the next question and connect the dots- why was he able to do this?? Because enough participants in the stock market and labor markets believed in his “vision” and devoted their money myth energy to prop him up, all the way to where he could buy/ruin Twitter and then parlay that to buy/ruin the American Executive and Legislative institutions- won’t be able to get courts tho- but the myth of money is what facilitated All of this …
Only-Imagination-459@reddit
You're not crazy to feel this way OP. It is the world and human greed that is crazy. There is something inherently good in you that can feel empathy for things outside of your own personal bubble - a trait you will find lacking in people in positions of power
BayouGal@reddit
Apparently empathy is now a sin. Who knew 🙄
Tight-Stable9271@reddit (OP)
Appreciate your honesty - sometimes I have the feeling my brain is about to explode - but how can we strive as a society if even families (blood relation) is ready to go against each other for profit. We still have so much to learn 😔
Jcolebrand@reddit
This is the sort of thinking that proves you will never be a billionaire ... you aren't set up to use people like disposable resources and extract their wealth for you. You care about other people. Remember this is why we do not support billionaires, ever. The only way to become a billionaire is to abuse people.
brandarific@reddit
I never agreed with the notion that greed is exclusive to humanity. All lifeforms strive to accumulate resources at the expense of others. This is the very definition of life.
Barnacle_B0b@reddit
+1 on this chain.
The end-game is +95% of all life on Earth dies.
Again. This has happened on Earth before.
Between 2030-2035 we should anticipate Blue Ocean Event to be in full effect.
Polar Jetstream will collapse, and AMOC will stall. These will change northern hemisphere climate patterns to be unstable and unpredictable. It will decimate agriculture and by 2050 well likely see a global failure of staple crops and mass starvation. You will witness the deaths of billions by starvation, in your lifetime. You may be one who starves.
RandomBoomer@reddit
The wonder isn't that we're so brutish to each other; the true wonder is that for brief shining moments we've risen above our greedy, self-absorbed natures.
BowelMan@reddit
Hmmm... I agree as well. Shallow and pedantic.
mycofirsttime@reddit
It’s thinning the herd.
greenyadadamean@reddit
Agree. Will humans be able to make it through the climate challenges to come? Certainly not with the amount of people currently on the planet.
Phrainkee@reddit
This is why we're hearing about 0.01% buying bunkers or remote properties for survival. What the game plan could be is maybe just survive a couple years off the grid, then begin building the world in their image. I don't think it would be impossible to survive that long in a secure location, short of nuclear winter or celestial events destroying the planet. It'll be more like economic systems fail, society fails, and they all hide out for X period. A large majority of us die off and they come back out of the woodwork. Think of the world they'd be in! Remember when COVID lockdowns hit and pollution and ecosystems kinda (slightly) bounced back? There were scientists saying there could be an environmental comeback, if we could manage a year or two of low human waste output....
I think they know this and it's kept secret behind closed doors. Just my tinfoil hat conspiracy but I think the "apocalypse" would go this way more than complete udder destruction of the planet.
Livid_Village4044@reddit
I'm actually doing this (tho I don't have a bunker), and I am FAR from wealthy. So are my neighbors, here at elevation 2900' in a fairly remote part of Appalachia.
The problem with the wealthy is that they are used to having everything done for them, and their every whim pampered. They are pathetically dependent on a vast, complicated system that will no longer exist. They are not adaptively fit.
weirdrevolution11@reddit
Pretty much my thought. If they can’t get the AI robots built in time, they won’t have anyone around to fix their toilet. But I guess when we are all dead they can just shit anywhere they want.
JulianMorganthau@reddit
But who will wipe their asses?
PaintedGeneral@reddit
I recommend everyone read Tim Winton’s book, Juice, for a fictional logical end step for what this will look like for the next generations.
Deus_is_Mocking_Us@reddit
This is chillingly plausible.
mycofirsttime@reddit
Or they’re going to learn how to harvest our energy a la the matrix in order to power the AI overlords.
bastardofdisaster@reddit
Until there is zero herd.
mycofirsttime@reddit
Those bastards have been building bunkers. The PLAN is to thin the herd to an efficient amount that provides the service the bunker elites need.
Deus_is_Mocking_Us@reddit
Oligarchs: "I want to get the human population down to the level of my domestic staff."
mycofirsttime@reddit
Yep, pretty much.
BadCatNoNoNoNo@reddit
Trump’s unvaccinated masses will be the first to be unalived.
Bastiproton@reddit
Lessening the effects on as many people as possible as much as possible is not pedantic.
Maximum-Quit309@reddit
Yet you’re here being pedantic.
Logridos@reddit
Total extinction? Nah, we're hardy as fuck. We're not going extinct any time soon. Most of us will die in the coming climate wars, and the rest will just regress to a nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle with short, miserable lives.
Philomath117@reddit
Indeed look at the Mayans but imagine it globally
huehuehuehuehuuuu@reddit
Yep the real end. We suicide by greed.
Astalon18@reddit
No idea.
Mark Fisher raised a point that we have something called Capitalist Realism. We can more easily envision the end of the world than the end of capitalism.
So I do not know.
VilleKivinen@reddit
It's really not that hard to imagine alternatives for capitalism.
North Korea is the least capitalist place on earth, even if they still have money. We don't have to imagine it, we can read about it all day.
Star Trek is the other end of noncapitalism, where all resources and energy is so abundant that everything is free and people only work for personal reasons.
Even in our own societies we have noncapitalist institutions, like the armies. They are centrally planned, rigid command economies with clear rank structure. Colonel doesn't pay or ask captain to do something, he just orders it. It's not hard to imagine whole societies working this way in strict dictatorship.
Lele_@reddit
Zarist Russia had a militarized state administration, with ranks, uniforms, medals etc. Always thought it quite interesting that you could be the Colonel of Regional Grain Procurement.
Guilty_Glove_5758@reddit
Been reading a lot about the collapse of the Roman "republic". The way I see it, it was the militarism that killed it off, and after that it killed of the whole Western empire. Massive amounts of resources wasted in armies-scale infighting. Rigid hierarchies often come with violent competition, even if we had an environmentally informed A.I. philosopher king at the helm. That said, the Soviet union and North Koreans managed or indeed manage militarist societies pretty well in terms of stability. No civil wars after the initial power struggle. Maybe asiatic cultures perform better in these types of scenarios?
I doubt there are systemic answers to the irrationality of humans. Liberal democracy and capitalism with all it's apocalyptical consequence is the ethical pinnacle of our sad political history, maybe excluding some small time communities based on voluntary participation of like minded people that play no role in the large scheme of things.
Tight-Stable9271@reddit (OP)
I hope it does not take to end the world just to end capitalism - hope we humans really will have a big leaning curve spike when it will be needed - obv the suffering now its still not enough
rematar@reddit
We are indoctrinated to covet tokens. As our environment fails while taking crops with it, we continually refer to how much money will be lost. We're a global parasite fixated on useless achievements. Easter Island 2.0
DeLoreanAirlines@reddit
The entire plot of Snowpiercer
Socialimbad1991@reddit
Hard to say. Some guy called Marx had a theory about what comes after capitalism but he didn't know about global warming and the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world have spent the last ~150 years pouring all their resources into preventing any meaningful change... so what happens next? Idk
One-Essay-129@reddit
I’m calling it right now. 15 years max, widespread societal collapse with a large sprinkle (like when you try and salt your dinner straight from the big tub of salt and end up pouring way too much) of climate change… and then we break up into smaller self-sufficient bands and establish trading networks
Slutty_Avocado26@reddit
Society is collapsing currently
One-Essay-129@reddit
True story. But I think it’ll be about 15 years before all semblance of modern life disappears
Saturn_winter@reddit
I'll only be 45 by then :/ can we push it off another 30 to 45 years? Wait that's optimistic because most of us will be dead long before the "all semblance gone" point in 15 years so I more likely only have like 5-10 left... my point stands, how bout we push it back another 37 years, I can compromise and split the difference.
Oh no, is this what the bargaining stage feels like? Lmao... ah.. I laugh because otherwise I'll cry.
Slutty_Avocado26@reddit
Do whatever you can to flee to a developing country it will extend your chances of being OK.
SnuffedOutBlackHole@reddit
Add to that the fact that no one will be living anywhere near the equator (like wherever you live now, even in the northern US, move your marker hunders of miles north. possibly a thousand).
The southern tip of South America. Northernmost Canada. The Arctic Circle and Antarctica.
Those are the only placs even remotely possible at the wet bulb temps we're heading toward. The last two years of climate data made me realize we're probably running the worst case temp levels in the shortest possible time.
Eduardo_schuch@reddit
RemindMe! 15 years
humongous_rabbit@reddit
Free internet in 15 years? We‘ve found the optimist!
CantSmellThis@reddit
I don't think we will be able to power the internet.
One-Essay-129@reddit
Don’t worry I can rig it up to my bike like a hamster
RemindMeBot@reddit
I will be messaging you in 15 years on 2040-04-03 03:17:18 UTC to remind you of this link
CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) ^(delete this message to hide from others.)
Garbageforever@reddit
Global mass extinction
GhostofAugustWest@reddit
Every system ever has failed because of human greed and ambition. I don’t believe any system can truly overcome that in a meaningful way. So unless the human species evolves out of those primitive instincts, there’s nothing that will ultimately work for all.
chococake2024@reddit
go bananas and giggle
amroth62@reddit
Walking Dead, minus the zombies.
From a planetary perspective, evolution will keep happening. In 50,000 years there will be a beautiful planet once again. It may look nothing like it does now, but that won’t stop nature doing her thing. I saw a documentary quite a while back about the marine that hangs out in a river in one of India’s major cities - it was made by Valerie Taylor, and I think it was the Ganges, but it was a while back. All the edible fish were long gone. The water was full of pollution - not bad enough to kill everything, but bad enough to kill most things. The things that were left were of course those that liked those conditions. Weird eels and tiny worms. Poisonous to humans - lucky for them. Those critters never used to be seen there, but now are common. Those critters used to be food for the edible fish, but with them out of the way, they were thriving. That happened across less than 100 years - imagine what can happen in a thousand years, ten thousand….
JezusOfCanada@reddit
We are just making everything up as we go.
But we are now entering another period of conquest. This time, we have the internet and "advanced" wireless tech compared to the 90/00s.
235711@reddit
I'd say this period of conquest leads to amalgamation rather than balkanization as is usually predicted.
JezusOfCanada@reddit
North america has to go through its feudalism stage before we can predict anything.
pocketgravel@reddit
Depopulation and the demographic crisis will break the current system. It's not designed for it and young workers will riot from the pressure put on them to support a massive cohort of aging people. 2050 is the crisis point for south Korea and most developed nations. Global warming is only going to be getting worse as the years wear on so having both happen at once is going to be catastrophic.
Dry-Technician3237@reddit
China, India and Pakistan all have nukes and these countries are going to be some of the hardest hit by climate change especially India and Pakistan.
pocketgravel@reddit
And Russia and China are going to be hardest hit by the demographic collapse at the same time. We're not all gonna make it.
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
Demographic collapse has an easy solution: immigration. That solution isn't implemented because most places are too racist to consider it.
pocketgravel@reddit
Immigration is a stop gap measure that doesn't really solve the problem long term. It's good enough for a few decades but the global fertility rate is damn close to the global replacement rate (2.33 vs 2.3) so developed countries are going to end up heavily competing for the same pool of immigrants. Eventually it doesn't work out well... It kind of vaguely reminds me of an oil well except it's human bodies to feed the machine.
235711@reddit
China found another solution, industrial robots. They're not exporting them for a reason.
Saturn_winter@reddit
I'll have you know I splurged the money and bought 2 whole, unopened(!) extra cans of chili and a gallon of water this week. Read em and weep, peasants, I'll wave to you from my well nourished throne.
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
It's amazing to me that most people don't consider this. Pakistan is practically a failed county with nuclear weapons and one of the most populous with simmering civil tensions, active insurgencies in the north from Taliban aligned groups and in the southwest with Baloch separatists, and an ongoing conflict with a neighbor country over historically disputed territory, where 2 and a half years ago a third of the country was completely inundated from massive storms.
It's a literal timebomb.
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
If by riot, you mean let them die from lack of care as some semblance of justice for a future they've stolen from all of us?
Then probably. We'll be too busy trying to survive in the dystopia they've helped create.
HarbingerofKaos@reddit
All systems fail when earth decides to fail them. All major civilisation collapse milestones are linked to major environmental change.
WM_@reddit
With the absence of utopias, we are (maybe even inadvertently) just sliding towards dystopia.
Safe_Report2404@reddit
Looks like the richer people get, they loose empathy
Safe_Report2404@reddit
The end game is to keep Americans so poor and worried about feeding their families. We already pay taxes on everything we purchase and now we have to add tarriff taxes. Meanwhile, he plans on a bill that allows Billionaires and Corporations NOT PAY TAXES. Protest, scream at Congress. Speak up or forever let yourself get screwed. Billionaires must pay taxes. We can afford all programs if they paid their share
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
I don't know if it's the scale you're looking for to answer your question, but when it comes to the U.S., the most capitalistic society on Earth, the end game is sell itself off. I tend to try to understand the world in analogies. Living through these times, Trump's tariffs, made me think of those scenes in the classic TV series M*A*S*H. Every once in awhile, the mobile hospital would find itself on the verge of being overwhelmed by the enemy. They would have to pack everything up and move. The scenes would often be chaotic, with everyone rushing in every direction, scooping up everything they can and getting out of Dodge before they're all killed and the hospital is destroyed. Colonel Potter would yell, "We're bugging out!"
This is the endgame. This is what we're living through right now. Trump is Colonel Potter (a terrible comparison to a good character and human being I know), and yesterday he declared, "We're bugging out!" The country is being soft looted and the site being abandoned, just like the MASH hospital. I long looked for what I thought would be America's Berlin Wall moment, and I think yesterday was it.
Capitalism is done, it self destructed. It's a functionally, morally, theoretically bankrupt system. Its replacement is not going to be fun. It's going to more debt peonage, more techno-oligarchy, more Orwellian sadness. Maybe there's no name for it yet. Economics have loved throwing around the phrase "claw back" recently. Well, we're being clawed back to a new Gilded Age.
Feeling_Initiative42@reddit
3 decades of MMO's have taught me this: the endgame is getting your gear, building your team and securing resources.
Bonus Points: Make yourself look cool while doing it.
Ragnarok314159@reddit
Eve Online is about to come to real life. It’s going to be brutal.
Saturn_winter@reddit
And we're all gonna be living in nullsec
OSiRiS341@reddit
*11 active tornadoes so far
Feeling_Initiative42@reddit
But hey, at least Sarah Huckabee Sanders allocated 250k to disaster relief. /s
FREE-AOL-CDS@reddit
Upgrades comes and go, drip is eternal.
Feeling_Initiative42@reddit
Can't wait for the water wars DLC. Drip is gonna be fire (pun intended.)
LilyHex@reddit
Billionaires want to kill everyone who is "undesirable", i.e. anyone who isn't white and able-bodied and straight.
Musk is so obvious with his breeding kink and desperation to have his seed all over the place like an old woman feeding pigeons at the park.
The others are buying bunkers because they know the end is near; they're bringing it on intentionally because they believe they will survive.
They don't care about us.
The world does not need billionaires.
Unfair_Creme9398@reddit
Are billionaires on average more white supremacist than ‘normal’ people?
Interestingllc@reddit
We are too integrated as a society now for one singular group to come on top from this.. and even then what future would their children have, they aren't going to miraculously cool down the planet after 2100. Short sighted idiotic vision of the future led by grifters who equate intelligence and success with obscene wealth, human social constructs won't survive the bullshit coming our way... our dreams, human rights, freedom won't and finally we won't.
HaBumHug@reddit
I assume you’re taking specifically about the US? Do you even live in a capitalist society anymore? Even if you take a loose definition of private actors controlling property and setting prices rather the state.. well what happens when those private actors are the state? Whether it’s individual billionaires or vessels of corporate interests those private actors already have complete control of your state. They are indistinguishable from each other. It’s Animal Farm but with Ayn Rand characters.
So the end game.. a deepening of existing Techno-feudalism I guess?
Green-Circles@reddit
Well, I've heard a theory that the some currently in power want the endgame to be USA & Russia versus China, so there's that.....
onward_skies@reddit
look up anarcho primitivism
StoopSign@reddit
I think I'll get an ebook on it
StoopSign@reddit
Not bang. Just whimper
Guilty_Glove_5758@reddit
I think "system" denotes some kind of order, not just bandit gangs fighting for expired twinkies. I can't imagine a system following capitalism, as there will be hundreds of thousands of years of unstable and inhospitable climate conditions combined with the fact that just about every non-renewing resource except hard-to-get coal has been depleted, farming will be a wild shot, and there will be very little wild flora and fauna to shove down you pie hole or keep warm with.
Bubis20@reddit
Capitalism is in decline since the wealth in hands of few outnumbered the wealth of the rest of the world.
The end game is the point when the hands of few are retarded fucks who inherited the money.
Collapse_is_underway@reddit
You wanna help adapt for the next era of humans ? Read about low-tech and promote it.
In a world that will enter the era of "not always more energy sources", low-tech will become the way to cope with more local production.
Regardless of the brutality that will come with the transition from the current ponzi-schemed system to the other one (and the amount of dead people in a short amount of time), some humans will keep on living.
BlackMassSmoker@reddit
Capitalism will eventually eat itself. We're seeing this now as with every crash and every crisis is just another opportunity to siphon more wealth to a small number of people that hoard it like dragons with a mountain of gold.
What comes out of this? Chaos. Despair. Death. That alone is from the system breaking down. Throw in some climate change as we lose our ability to grow food and find fresh water and the end result is billions are going to doe over the next several decades.
Some argue humanity will go extinct along with everything else on the planet. Some say our species will pull through. Regardless; you, me, and everyone on here will be dead.
Dewrod@reddit
The richest will survive. They'll use their "wealth" and "power" to take small armies and take over the few remaining places where food can grow. "for the good of humanity" they'll say...
After a few years, we'll mostly be dead and those left can make the world in their image.
"The meek shall inherit the earth"... These motherfuckers been lying to us for over 2000 years.
GCS_dropping_rapidly@reddit
AGI overlords
96-62@reddit
The end game for society is a renewable energy powered society, probably still industrial. We might even get away with not losing too many people, depending on how bad global warming gets. But I was always kind of prepping against oil/fossil fuel exhaustion, more than global warming.
Equivalent_Zone2417@reddit
I would imagine the end game would be to create an advance ai that could govern/control humans in a way that would ensure its survival to thrive. So, basically an giant ant colony of humans whose primary purpose is to either be workers or soldiers.
CntonAhigurh@reddit
We’re in the endgame now of the lucky few. The 0.1% is aging, the upcoming X years don’t matter to the ones that hold power.
breaducate@reddit
Capitalism was never 'supposed to be the solution' to feudalism.
It was a hostile takeover by a rising class that saw an opportunity to get their turn at being the ruling class.
It was never supposed to deliver liberté, égalité, fraternité, or any of the bullshit its marketing department may come up with.
Earlier versions of its so called democracy explicitly set out to only give the vote to property owners.
smackson@reddit
This is why, if humans survive some more centuries, they will look upon the 20th century with as much respect as the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
That democracy stuff finally got (theoretically) passed along to every human. Universal human rights actually got put... on the table, at least.
But we are obviously still in the throes of implementing it, and success is by no means guaranteed. Because of conflict with capitalism and many of the old hierarchical ways.
BasedDistributist@reddit
The successor to Capitalism is already here folks. Its called Neo-Cameralism.
And the entire reason why its taken seriously is because after "the end of history" in the 1990s, literally nobody had any new ideas.
You know that saying? "Its easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism"?
Welp, Curtis Yavin actually did it during a time when new ideas were few and far between.
And now here we are.
So can we please stop pretending that a successor hasn't been chosen yet? Because it has. The reason why it feels like the end of the world is because we are literally witnessing the end if capitalism right now.
breaducate@reddit
..they keep saying, or something similar, as wage labour, commodity production, private ownership, and the M-C-M' circuit are all still held sacred as the only way society could possibly be organised.
It's kind of like saying this isn't evolution it's something different because viruses evolved.
BasedDistributist@reddit
Kinda proving my point here. Most peoole are unable to even comprehend something that isn't capitalist or socialist.
Thats what makes neo-cameralism so dangerous - because its neither. Its a third position.
And the vast majority of people out there have been trained by society to only view things through a capitalist or socialist lens.
Thus the mass difficulty in interpreting and defining what's happening. Virtually everyone is using the wrong language to describe what's happening, which means it will be that much harder to fight it.
breaducate@reddit
People haven't been trained by society to see capitalist or socialist.
They've been trained to have incoherent definitions of both, but especially socialism. Case in point.
Sknowles12@reddit
It is indeed an infamous and historic period.
Ghostwoods@reddit
We all know about monarchic feudalism.
That's all Neo-Cameralism is, with a dash of wild babble, and a whole heap of grotesque ego dysfunction.
The idea that only capitalism and socialism are imaginable is deeply false.
FurgerOperativeNuggi@reddit
I don't really see anything truly new in NRx philosophy, once industrial capitalist civilization collapses the tech oligarchs will necessarily have their shot at ruling as warlords, but whether they are really able to construct, much less sustain new states in line with their lofty visions is a completely different question. especially in a highly uncertain environment of broader systems collapse. at the end of the day they are just one faction in a pretty interconnected world full of many other zealous factions
Ragnarok314159@reddit
Except there are millions of new ideas. All the time. I have several patents for new ideas. Millions of patents get submitted every year.
The problem is the behemoths running the show demand infinite growth to satiate the ghost of Jack Welch, never realizing that the ghoul will come for them as well.
chrissyann_dc@reddit
The END of the outdated monetary system, AI to do all the banal jobs (which is happening), cooperation of ALL nations with a RESOURCE-BASED ECONOMY. I know, sounds crazy...but...we are only as fr€€ as our purcha$ing po₩er...and that is quickly being eroded...Power to the People. People of the World Unite. Unite & Fight. Fight for what's Right.
private_publius@reddit
Socialism. It's the only answer.
Hugin___Munin@reddit
The end game ? , we all die , even those in bunkers.
The feedback loops have already started to kick in, and by the time we really take note, it will be decades too late.
The tech bros don't have the technology like in movies or games to survive in bunkers for decades , what about things like antibiotics have shelf life's and vaccines , what about when you return to the open world and all the viruses and bacteria have mutated and you have no resistance.
Even with 10% of the population left the feedback are just going to make the world more and more inhospitable to human and probably most advanced lifeforms.
So yeah.
jadelink88@reddit
After the 'bad times' some mass deaths, I suspect things restablise as corporate feudal micro states.
The tech bros are already planning it. Vertical integration is how you survive economic disintegration. A similar thing happened with the senatorial estates in ancient Rome. When the economy is too taxed or too unreliable to trade in, you insource everything you can.
Much like the old corporate mining towns in the US. Theirs company housing for workers, and you get paid in company script to buy stuff at the company store. You can leave, but there's stabilish miserable poverty here, and the lack of transferable funds means it's hard to save anything and leave. Xcorporation produce some surplus, which they can sell, but your food comes from Xcorporate farm, and power from Xcorporate energy, 'security' coms from Xcorp security branch. (Dont let them catch you trying to form a union).
This tends to lead to a rigid class stratification, and a permanently impoverished working class. The elite inherit shares, and manage the company.
Outside of this, farmers get more peasantish, producing most of their own food, on much smaller farms, and independent artisans like blacksmiths try to scrape a living.
mybluerat@reddit
For more on this, read Parable of the Sower
jadelink88@reddit
Not a bad read, the only thing that stuck out as unrealistic was the water use patterns and then that the US magically recovers and does a space program afterwards, because everything magically gets better.
mybluerat@reddit
Maybe I misunderstood but my take was the govt was still spending on frivolous things like space travel while many parts of the country had degraded into walled communities, company towns, poverty, crime, corruption, addiction. Kind of like what is probably about to happen in the US.
Cosmic_Traveler@reddit
Communism or barbarism. These are the options presented by capitalism going forward (at every point in capitalism’s development up to now, but increasingly so as it has developed, to be clear)
BoredMan29@reddit
This sub is pretty doomer so I think you're going to see a lot of pessimism. And I'm going to add to that. The idea that human society progresses ever upward towards some goal such as a more just society is as bullshit as the "line always goes up" crowd. I see two possible outcomes from capitalism, and we are on track to get both:
The rich get rich enough to decide they want direct power, not just holding everyone's livelihoods in their hands. So they destroy the one doddering threat to their power: the state. Maybe try to co-opt it, maybe just shred it, but the result is a rule by shifting alliances of elites in a vaguely corporate patronage structure where you can be fired/evicted/exiled on a whim that will ultimately tend towards mass enslavement
People are supremely exploited and have a collective memory of things not being this bad and all agree "fuck this". Unfortunately that's all they agree on and we enter a period of heavily armed chaos. Different ideological groups will rise and fall in different places but there's no guarantee the "best" one wins as eventually people will just crave some form of security. Warlordism seems the most likely outcome to me, but that's pretty inherently unstable so I guess it depends on where you define the situation as ending.
So what should you do? The one solid period of advice I can give for entering a period of chaos (and boy howdy this is fixing to be one for the history books) is to get to know your neighbors. I think we're all likely to die before there's any kind of new global order, and mostly we'll have little effect on it anyway. So build that local, decentralized world yourself. Doesn't matter if you wind up in Zucktopia or Muskberg or the Xi Dominion - take care of your community so they can take care of you when you need it. Carve out what kind of life you can. One where you can still dance in spite of it all.
SuchVanilla6089@reddit
We’ll stuck in time loop.
DeLoreanAirlines@reddit
Utopia, the British version.
ValuableCoast5931@reddit
The end game is to let the economy crash- not just recession. They want another Great Depression. They (the Richie Rich) get to buy everything on the cheap. The olds and poors die off, or revolt and get shipped out. The remaining serfs are even more dependent on the rulers.
The upper middle class survives but has to cut out the pool boy and swear fealty to the new regime.
The
Important_Citron_340@reddit
No solution. Just let time pass and the very rich few can weather the storm while most others make up the numbers in the death statistics.
NyriasNeo@reddit
Why does it need an "end game"? May be it will just be the end. Period.
EconomyTime5944@reddit
Years ago, I heard about superstorm supercells. It seems as if more places are experiencing natural disasters, because of extreme storms. Someone much smarter than me knows when storms cross that line into un- survivable. Would we be told? I guess I'll just wait to be blown away with everyone else.
pegasuspaladin@reddit
Post Scarcity is the term you might be looking for. Think everyone gets a basic and comfortable life baseline and everything is for civic duty not wealth acqusition
kiwittnz@reddit
We've been in it for 1,000s of years. Have you only just realised?
Tight-Stable9271@reddit (OP)
You skipped various other -ism - communism, socialism, feudalism, monarchies etc… we switched through all of it like pages
kiwittnz@reddit
LOL ... don't confuse political systems with economic systems. As soon as you were buying and then on selling for a profit that is capitalism. Which is as old as human civilization.
ren0dakota@reddit
Basic markets are not capitalism, capitalism is definitionally dependent on private ownership of the “means of production” which is the base level resources for society. It isn’t ancient, it isn’t necessary.
stingerdelux72@reddit
You're not alone in feeling this way. A lot of us are staring at the cliff edge and wondering why no one’s hitting the brakes.
The end of capitalism won’t look like a sudden collapse, it’ll look like what we’re already seeing: systems fraying, trust eroding, people checking out or building alternatives under the radar. The “next system” might not be a big bang revolution but a gradual patchwork of local resilience, parallel economies, and post-state cooperation.
Think decentralised governance, mutual aid, digital cooperatives, and AI-managed logistics. Run for people, not profit. It'll feel chaotic at first, but maybe that’s how we unlearn the idea that a single system should govern all life.
The important part? You're not helpless. Just being aware puts you ahead of most. Start conversations. Grow skills. Build ties. That's how the real post-capitalism sneaks in: quietly, from the ground up.
CarpeValde@reddit
The consensus around here is that we are skipping the end of capitalism and going straight to the end of civilization.
Which, ecologically speaking, certainly seems like the pathway.
Good to note that we are far closer to abandoning any pretense of democracy than doing the same with capitalism. As resource scarcity causes geopolitical instability, we will likely see some devolution into a fascistic imperialism as governments and corporations start flexing hard power to secure resources and quell internal dissent.
From there it kinda depends on if and when/where the nuclear strikes begin, but the end result is death, and maybe, for the optimists, a chance at recovery.
Monsur_Ausuhnom@reddit
The end game is,
HOARD. MORE. MONEY. MORE.
EchoEducational7338@reddit
Yall wouldn’t have allowed Obama to get away with this.
BTRCguy@reddit
Pretty sure the end game is where we have a 1 in 14,000,605 chance of a positive outcome...
duckduckgoop_@reddit
The economic dynamics indicate a return to something resembling feudalism. Check out Yanis Varoufakis’ work on Technofeudalism. On the timescales of millennia we can safely predict a return to pre-agricultural modes of living. :)
Deus_is_Mocking_Us@reddit
When I think about this question, it reminds me of "Pig killer" from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome:
"Plan? Ain't no plan!"
NPVT@reddit
Feudalism where you are property of the oligarchs who own everything including you. Serf you are. That's the end game someone wants.
AverageAlien@reddit
It is the goal of EVERY socioeconomic system to continuously edge closer to being a Utopia (as impossible as it may be to actually achieve), Including our current system. When you look at it in that light, it becomes clear that the system is designed under the idea that in order to provide a utopia to a few people, many more people have to work to make it happen. It's made to provide the utopia to the rich and ultra rich. Everyone else has to work to make it happen.
The Utopia is not meant for you and me. That is why it's so hard to get ahead. That's why the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. They need the workers desperate, to do the work providing the utopia. This is Capitalism by design.
Any system needs cheap labor in order to work, including communism. There will always be shitty jobs that need to be done, that people just don't want to do. If you just provide humanity with the means to life, liberty and happiness, who would do the shitty work that needs to be done? It's a question that's plagued humanity for centuries.
BUT, now we have AI and AI Robotics. These technologies show promise in filling that gap, making actual Communism possible. They should be technologies that would ultimately free humanity and allow everyone to take part in the Utopia. Under capitalism, this isn't the case. Under capitalism, everyone loses their jobs and the consumer base falls apart, businesses will start failing and the system crumbles. We will see the working class fall away and we will be left with the ruling class and the homeless, who are then criminalized and used as slaves in the prison system.
I think these technologies under some form of Communism would be ideal, as the whole of humanity could take part in the fruits of the AI's labor, leaving people to do whatever they want to pursue their own happiness. Ideally, the government would need to be disbanded to spread the power to the people. I am a fan of direct democracy, where everyone can go online and vote on actual issues, solutions and legislation, rather than voting on politicians. But that's just my fantasy and probably not likely to happen in my lifetime.
Another aspect is that our money, the US dollar, is currently in a death spiral. We currently have to print money, just to service the debt, which adds to inflation. We also sold Trillions of dollars worth of government bonds in 2020, and they come to fruition in the end of this year. The Fed will have to print even more money to pay for those, adding to inflation. BUT inflation is a good thing for our government, because it devalues the national debt. They need it. $36 Trillion of debt is not so bad when a bottle of water is $1 Billion (extremely exaggerated example to illustrate my point). BRICS has their Gold backed CBDC ready to launch, but they know launching it would be an act of war and currently they make a lot of money from owning a lot of our national debt. The US has their own CBDC ready to go, currently being used between banks and businesses called Fed Now. Donald Trump using DOGE to gut the government may have kicked the can down the road in regards to the collapse of the US Dollar, but eventually hyperinflation is inevitable.
The next big thing will be AI Assisted tax fraud, as people print out tons of fake AI generated receipts to claim on their taxes. This will lead a push to either remove income tax in favor of a stronger sales tax (harder to avoid when it's taken out at the point of sale), or push for the adoption of the CBDC (automatic taxes). Most Americans won't go for a CBDC because it gives the government a lot more control over everyone. So probably the former will happen until the USD goes into hyperinflation, then the CBDC will be launched as the savior.
I think the Dems really wanted to get Russia or China to attack us so we could just default on the national debt that we owe to them, then BRICS would release their CBDC, which would then cause the USD to immediately hyperinflate as tons of countries sell USD for the new BRICS currency, which would then allow them to transition into the new US CBDC. It would just rip the bandaid off and allow us to point the blame.
HomoExtinctisus@reddit
All complex societies operate on similar resource acquisition principles regardless of their formal economic labels. Until you address the fundamental problems of how we got here, merely changing labels from "capitalism" to some alternative system won't solve the core issues. The drive for growth, competitive advantage, and resource accumulation has been consistent throughout human civilization, whether in ancient Egypt, the Soviet Union, or modern market economies.
nommabelle@reddit
Im not sure what would have formed, but unfortunately we won't make it to the next global economic model because we are collapsing now
I maintain capitalism itself is not the reason for our collapse, though it speeds it up where its more difficult to respond to a changing society and world in time. I think collapse would've happened with most economic models as we seek to use Earths resources and eventually overshoot. Perhaps we were unlucky that capitalism was the model when we discovered fossil fuels, maybe a model with more inherent equality would have used that resource better where it doesn't destroy our host planet?
Idk, I'm not expert but do think collapse is happening now, and is not entirely the fault of capitalism, even if it's the easy thing to blame because it exacerbated it and is our current model
HardNut420@reddit
End game of capitalism is to eat shit and die trying
Ragnarok314159@reddit
The Monopoly Man ends up owning everything as everyone else starves and flips the board over.
Tight-Stable9271@reddit (OP)
Insects* 😂😂
ladeepervert@reddit
What insects? They're all dying too.
Tight-Stable9271@reddit (OP)
Nah they introduced the dinosaurs to the world and will outlive us for a long times
MrArmageddon12@reddit
There is no endgame for capitalism, it’s all about the profits you can extract here and now.
JesusChrist-Jr@reddit
Too many people think capitalism is the end game. We need to start thinking of it as a step in development rather than a perpetual solution. It seems clear that we're past the point of it being a net benefit to society, but we'll keep pushing it because a handful of people who have power are thriving under it.
Realistically, the end game is probably some form of sustainable socialism. We need to limit reproduction to maintain a sustainable population level at which everyone has their basic needs met. I doubt we'll ever get there though. Essentially every form of government and society that humans have invented has failed due to greed. It's in our nature, and that's why I don't think a truly fair and sustainable system is possible.
FREE-AOL-CDS@reddit
There is none.
Ok_Sale_8277@reddit
My prediction is the functional collapse of nation states, rising authoritarianism and techno feudalism. Basically Dune. Nonetheless I do find the prospect of forming decentralized network societies (rather than feudal network states).
"We need more housing, more effective education systems, more resilient supply chains, electoral systems that effectively represent far more diverse societies, and better pathways to comfortable, meaningful, and sustainable lives across the globe. Exit may be tempting. But it’s not the way to build.
Instead, imagine empowering groups within and across countries to address the pressing problems they face, build legitimacy and win public support to force their many governments to the table to grapple with their creative solutions. Imagine collective intelligence systems that apply the capacities of new language models towards achieving participatory consensus at nation-state or global scale, building on existing work in places like Taiwan or Estonia, and on digital platforms like Wikipedia. Or imagine tools that empower zero-overhead organizations to fund abundant public goods, not relying either purely on the state or private venture capital, but dynamically allocating from networks of philanthropists, VCs, and governments matching individual contributions based on the breadth and diversity of support. Decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs) hosted in the Ethereum blockchain community point towards ways to do this, from matching grants for shared public goods, to retroactive funding, delegative democracy, and many other innovative sandboxes.
This might look like advances in privacy and cryptography that can enable different forms of information sharing, machine learning, and auditing. Or economic and political mechanisms, including new auctions and voting rules, that can better express the actual value of a good or service, beyond the crude mechanism of price. Or a (finally) better way to process, share, and retain collective rights over the data we all create, which is now mostly hoovered up by private platforms or AI companies without clear paths to collective benefit. The experiments that have been run by the Collective Intelligence Project, the Plurality Institute, and countless others show that this future is possible.
If alignment around One Commandment, exit and founders are at the center of Srinivasan’s vision of the network state, pluralism, inter-coordination, fluid recombination and participatory governance are at the center of a network society."
https://www.cip.org/blog/network-societies