Only a fool would give that island more money.

You want a cause? Start with how how much they valorize their “Latin” culture. It wasn’t native. This culture was born with the Creole Spaniards who created what we would call a corupt culture, in order to bleed the far-away Spanish Crown during colonial rule. That mindset never died. Now they see Americans the same way—another empire to drain.

Maybe the US will wake up, one day, and stop handing over our tax dollars to them.

[-]

Alpha-Sierra-Charlie@reddit

And even with absolutely massive investment, they're just one big storm away from being back at square one.

[-]

External_Produce7781@reddit

Eh, yes and no. Power lines can be burried, at least for main trunk lines, etc. it cannbe ruggedized.

Talked with companies Puerto Rico team during my internship about their grids and infrastructure and their lead times are 4 times what the (already not great) lead times are for mainland US.

They talked about trying to get a broken generator fixed and the infrastructure that is required to move it out costs more than to install an entirely new generator and in some places the infrastructure required to replace it simply cannot be created at all.

[-]

i_hate_cars_fuck_you@reddit

Lol. As someone from an island I will never understand this mentality. It makes us sound like a bunch of ass-backwards bafoons farming fish in ancient ponds. No dude, we have cities large cities, trains, busses, airports, and Chic-Fil-A just like you guys. We have the same population problems as you guys, too! More people leaving the island than coming in, low birthrate, low unemployment, lack of skilled workers, etc. Those are things gaps you generally want to fill with outsiders if you can't do it with the local population because it's good for the economy.

Please don't act like we're not a developed economy. It's frankly insulting. Puerto Rico probably has different problems than us, but I can 100% assure you it's not because of "finite resources".

[-]

Technical_Plum2239@reddit

Average household income on Hawaii - 128,123.

Puerto Rico - 25,096

I grew up in a Puerto Rican neighborhood in Massachusetts and been to Puerto rico many times. How many times have you been there?

They are worse off now than when I was a kid in the 1970s.

I'm pretty sure a bunch off wealthier people coming in buying up homes and driving up already high prices isn't going to help the people of Puerto Rico.

Maybe I am wrong but based on what folks say about Californians here, people don't like it.

[-]

i_hate_cars_fuck_you@reddit

Well, I was talking about islands in general and not Puerto Rico specifically, but also...what does that have to do with Puerto Rico being and island? That was my contention-- that it's not because of island life. I wasn't suggesting Puerto Rico didn't have problems. Hawaii is an island chain as well but we don't have the same problems with unemployment or poverty. Why?

I haven't googled yet, but I'm going to take a guess. My understanding from what I heard is that the big problem in Puerto Rico is unemployment. Am I going to find out that there's a specific tax incentive for a specific type of foreigner to buy up extremely expensive areas and not employ anybody? Because that's not "finite resources" or anything that has to do with being an island.

[-]

Technical_Plum2239@reddit

Milk there is about 10 bucks a gallon. I pay 3.99.

So unemployment is bad there. How are people moving there going to help?

"specific tax incentive for a specific type of foreigner to buy up extremely expensive areas"

What does that mean?

[-]

i_hate_cars_fuck_you@reddit

I meant that there would be a specific tax incentive for a specific type of rich person who doesn't contribute to the local economy.

I looked it up though. That's one thing but it doesn't top the list. It turns out the main factor for population's poverty rate is high unemployment, and the more macro trends are high debt to GDP ratio (70% compared to the USA's 17%), natural disasters, population loss as a result from the economic issues making it worse, and federal regulations that the island was reliant on becoming obsolete.

For more info:

Experts say the island’s economic crisis [PDF] is rooted in twentieth-century legislation that encouraged Puerto Rico’s reliance on debt to fill federal funding gaps. It did this by giving bond investors higher returns and loosening borrowing limits. Since 1917, lenders to Puerto Rico have been exempt from local, state, and federal taxes—the so-called triple tax exemption—effectively boosting their profits and making the island a more attractive investment. The territory’s constitution also allows Puerto Rico to balance its budget with its debt, among other provisions that facilitate borrowing.

The debt problem accelerated after 1996, when the U.S. government began phasing out [PDF] Internal Revenue Code Section 936. This provision had allowed American businesses to operate tax-free in Puerto Rico, which critics viewed as a windfall for wealthy corporations. Section 936’s repeal triggered a deterioration of Puerto Rico’s manufacturing sector, and the territorial government increasingly turned to debt to cover its spending.

So, if your biggest economic boon is companies leaving holes in the economy when their tax exemptions dry up and high debt-to-gdp, that's terrible. But none of that has to do with being an island or having finite resources.

Would people moving to the island help? Unless they brought their companies there with them, probably not. But that wasn't the point I was making. My point was that even island nations have sophisticated problems like debt crisis' and federal program cuts causing unemployment, and to boil it down to "it's cuz island people have finite resources" is insulting and doesn't give credit to the complexities of that society.

Bro when was the last time you were in Miami? The development of high rises has increased dramatically. Hurricanes or not.

[-]

worthwhilewrongdoing@reddit

Tbf I would question why anyone wants to move to either of those states, and some of their neighboring ones.

[-]

Technical_Plum2239@reddit

Because I'm a half hour from RI and we deliver food, lumber, and electricity from here.

And I am pretty sure if we are like, hey, let's increase the population just for the sake of it in RI, they'd say, Fuck right off.

Look at Texas, That place is a desolate waste land and they are whining about it.

[-]

Coro-NO-Ra@reddit

Look at Texas, That place is a desolate waste land

How so?

I mean he’s not an idiot, he became one of the most popular personalities online and has earned millions. He has a team of people supporting his lifestyle and helping him make decisions for tax evasion/loopholes.

On the surface yeah he acts like an idiot but I think that’s a different kind of idiotic.

[-]

ColossusOfChoads@reddit

Smart enough to conspire with Tyson to milk the public for dozens of millions. Or was that the other Paul? Can't keep 'em straight.

[-]

drlsoccer08@reddit

They don’t pay US income tax but they have a lot of taxes on imports and they do have a local income tax. I’m sure for certain people it could work out so that the tax burden is lower.

[-]

xynix_ie@reddit

He was wrong, I was wrong before he was.

[-]

Anecdotes from randos on Reddit IS actual data 😄

[-]

nwbrown@reddit

They are not.

[-]

MisterD00d@reddit

Welcome to the present day state of things. Welcome to the future.

[-]

SteelRail88@reddit

You have to understand: when it supports your narrative, it's just an anecdote.

When it supports mine, it's "lived experience."

Do try and keep up.

[-]

user_number_666@reddit

Fair enough.

I don't think you do. The only state or territory with a lower cost of living is the Northern Mariana Islands

Well their native population was wiped out but already replaced.

[-]

Talshan@reddit

Cheap and even free farmland was a form of wealth.

[-]

big_sugi@reddit

They also moved everywhere else that didn’t have those things, or didn’t appear to have those things at the time. Pretending that Americans would only go to wealthy or developed places is silly.

The real problem with Puerto Rico is that it was too!developed, and the inhabitants couldn’t just be pushed out of the way.

[-]

Laiko_Kairen@reddit

American history is the story of Americans spreading across the continent to places that are less wealthy or developed.

Manifest destiny, from coast to coast, doesn't include islands.

They also moved to areas that were very sparsely populated, so they could build their own settlements. It's one thing to move out to an undeveloped area and create a city, it's another to move to one with its own economy, culture, language, etc.

The section of Mexico taken during the Mexican-American war, for example, was almost entirely empty. About 3% of Mexico's population lived up there in the desert. They were almost entirely in the middle of the more temperate zones near Mexico City.

The Native Americans had been more heavily concentrated near Mexico city as well. Mexico had multiple times the population of the rest of North America, which unfortunately was severely depleted during and after Cortez.

There were about 3 million Native Americans in all of what is now the USA during the late 1600s. That sounds like a lot until you consider that Puerto Rico has about that today, and they're one island, not a whole continent.

[-]

techieman33@reddit

Especially when the primary language is spanish. A lot of people aren't going to want to live in a place when they don't speak the local language.

[-]

[-]

realSatanAMA@reddit

Only if they move on Election Day

[-]

xqueenfrostine@reddit

Maybe not even Election Day depending on where they live! A lot of states don’t allow same day registration.

[-]

Teahouse_Fox@reddit

And even the ones that do may limit you to a provisional ballot.

[-]

amd2800barton@reddit

Most states have a period in which you have to live there to establish residency, and you have to be a resident in order to register to vote, and you have to register to vote before the election. Many states residency can take months to establish.

So it’s not like someone living in Puerto Rico can just pop over to Florida on Election Day and say “here I am, I’m a citizen, and decided today that I’m a Floridian, ballot please”.

[-]

mfigroid@reddit

Right. They have to establish residency first. Can be done in a day.

[-]

You say that but they've had numerous referendums to apply for statehood or independence. The US isn't holding PR as a territory by gunpoint.

[-]

ryguymcsly@reddit

Check your facts. Puerto Rico has voted for statehood three times since 2012.

Congress has more or less ignored it each time, except the one time they told Puerto Rico to put another referendum on the ballot that was worded in such a way that it caused the anti-statehood people to refuse to vote which led to Congress saying the vote was corrupt.

[-]

amd2800barton@reddit

Check your facts. Puerto Rico has voted for statehood three times since 2012.

Yes, but it’s been complicated each time. In 2012 while a bit over half said that the Island should not continue as a territory, the second question which asked if it should be a state, territory, or independent - a full quarter of the voters who answered the first question ignored the second question. The Obama administration commented that they found the results less clear than they were hoping.

In 2017 the island’s Popular Democratic Party boycotted the vote, and the turnout was less than a quarter. And in 2020 the vote was split 52-48%.

So it’s not as simple as “they’ve voted for it”. The votes have been inconsistent. A vote for statehood needs to be decisive - a mandate from the people - because it’s more than just a normal election. It’s making a permanent choice to become a state. There is currently no legal process to undo becoming a state, or to separate once that’s happened. The last time it came up one in twenty American males died (2.5% of the US population died in the civil war). That would be 8.5 million people today.

So a territory should be unequivocally in favor of becoming a state. And that just isn’t the case with Puerto Rico. There’s large support for independence/free association; large support for statehood; and even support for continuing with the status quo. The last one is the path of least resistance, so it’s probably how things will continue to go, until there is a consensus by the people to push for one of the other two options.

[-]

sas223@reddit

Yes, and they overwhelmingly voted for statehood on the most recent ballot, ~59% pro in 2024. It was 52% yes in 2020. Congress has to choose to make Puerto Rico a state. The current congress will not.

[-]

HolyFlyingPizza@reddit

Puerto Rico has had a referendum on Puerto Rico's status every election for over 20 years. Statehood always wins by a vast majority. Congress has not passed a bill to make Puerto Rico a state, thereby holding the island hostage.

[-]

emtaesealp@reddit

Those referendums are literally useless. They have no power to change anything. A glorified poll and it’s just a way for the statehood party to get their supporters to the polls.

[-]

Jen0BIous@reddit

So does DC, but they can still vote. It just only goes towards the popular vote because, as you said, they have no electoral power. They can still vote though unless I’m missing something here.

[-]

Relative-Magazine951@reddit

So does DC, but they can still vote

Puerto Ricans living in Puerto Rico actually get to cast ballots for president of the United States at all! There are elections in Puerto Rico on the same day as the presidential election in (the rest of) the United States, but they vote for Governor and Resident Commissioner only. There isn't even a way to vote for president that doesn't count.

So the votes of Puerto Ricans are not included in the popular vote totals.

[-]

emtaesealp@reddit

There was indeed a ballot for president in the PR elections this year it just didn’t mean anything.

Source: I voted in the elections in PR this year

[-]

HolyFlyingPizza@reddit

I'm originally from Puerto Rico. Puerto Rican ballots don't include the president or members of congress so there's no popular vote coming from Puerto Rico.

[-]

abbot_x@reddit

Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico do not have the right to vote in federal elections. Puerto Ricans have to reside in the United States to vote.

[-]

the_real_JFK_killer@reddit

Yes and no. Obviously they can vote in local and territory elections, and they can also vote in presidential primaries. However, when it comes to the general election, while they can vote, it does not actually affect the outcome. They also do vote for senators and congressmen, but those representing PR only have an advisory vote. In other words, not a vote that affects the count.

Ummmm... no one loses their right to vote when moving to Puerto Rico.

Virtuous_Troll@reddit

It changes year to year but on average the crime rate is 3-4x the rate in the U.S.

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

By the time we acquired it the island was already very populated and it was much poorer than the mainland. It was while we were still expanding westward so not many people were interested.

Combine that with tropical diseases and not really a shared language and I suspect it just wasn’t an attractive option.

They also had a significant anti US bias as they just saw us as colonizers replacing the Spanish (pro tip, accurate). Puerto Rican nationalists also tried to assassinate Truman in 1950 and got scarily close to doing it.

They also shot up the House of Representatives in 1954. Wounding 5 representatives. Some 30 shots in all. Thankfully no one died.

So to say relations weren’t historically great is probably one reason.

[-]

Sharkhottub@reddit

Where are these Puerto Rican heros nowadays

[-]

4games1@reddit

I do not know where exactly you are from, but in the USA, most of our islands are as legally unwelcoming as they can be when it comes to mainlanders moving in.

[-]

DerekL1963@reddit

*nods* Got one here where I live. They managed to make fast food places illegal and make it stick in the court (once they agreed to grandfather in in perpetuity the McD's that "inspired" the law.) That's after they incorporated the island as a city so the rest of county doesn't get a say in their zoning and land use policies. (That's was straight up the campaign slogan of the pro incorporation group - basically "let's keep the outsiders outside".)

And don't even get me started on their restrictive zoning...

It's not immigration, though, yeah? Puerto Rico is part of the United States of America. They just aren't a state.

As for why mainlanders don't move there, crime and corruption in the local government are high. I love Puerto Rico, and an old daydream to buy a house there to retire keeps coming to mind.

Funny story, in the early 90s my dad was stationed on a military base in Puerto Rico for 4 years. When we moved back to the U.S. I was put in ESL classes because I was a quiet kid. Nobody realized it for most of the school year so I spent most of 2nd grade in Millington TN not talking to anyone, learning English.

kilofeet@reddit

There was a narrative at the time that Puerto Rico was "overpopulated," so the US treated it as a laboratory for experimental birth control and state interventions into family structure. Given that most white Americans from the mainland accepted that as truth, they would have seen moving to Puerto Rico as a step backwards.

Source: Laura Briggs *Reproducing Empire"

[-]

Not sure what you mean by ‘bringing in’ Americans. Americans move places there are opportunity and PR is poorer than the US mainland. It would be a rare person who had good reason to move to PR to make less money. It also became part of the US too late to have Americans move for the same reason Spanish moved to PR or Europeans to the American frontier - lots of cheap/free land to work. Subsistence agriculture was already waning by the time PR became part of the Us

[-]

c3534l@reddit

Peurto Rico is poor.

[-]

Lovebeingadad54321@reddit

Probably because they can’t vote. As long as your residence is in Puerto Rico You can’t vote in national elections.

However a person born in Peurto Rico that moves to one of the 50 states will get full voting rights

[-]

namhee69@reddit

High crime, repeated power outages and infrastructure issues, hurricanes, high unemployment, higher costs than the mainland, corruption…

I can keep going but I believe the PR population has consistently declined for the last 20ish years should confirm that it’s not a great place to be at this point.

[-]

Lakerdog1970@reddit

The US has actually done things to try to get American industry to locate in PR. Starting back in the 70s they put in place a bunch of tax breaks for manufacturing on the island, but many were allowed to expire and PR manufacturing has the same challenges that US manufacturing has: lower cost labor in Central America and Asia. And the PR workforce is generally not as educated as the mainland American workforce. I'm not saying that in a hateful way......it's just true.

But if you go to southeast PR, you always run into lots of Americans and Brits who are there with some pharma plant or medical device facility.

The other thing is many Americans just aren't that adventurous. Puerto Rico is more like visiting a real place with cities and most Americans want to visit a resort. And PR has resorts, but if you wander off, you will find yourself in some areas that are pretty poor and some places that are dangerous and you should leave. In fact, I've had a few moments on PR where my overconfidence and urge to explore got the better of me and I found myself in situations I really didn't like much......and was thankful that I got away with nothing bad happening. I'm sure the same thing could happen if you wandered around in Cairo, but I wasn't so bold in Cairo and being like, "Let's go down this alleyway and see if there's anything good to eat!". PR can sorta lull you. A lot of Americans don't even like to come into the cities here from their suburban homes if they have to park and walk 2-3 blocks past homeless people.

But it's an amazing place. Wonderful people. Incredible food. Diversity of landscapes. Interesting cities. A real airport. And you could actually LIVE there because they have stores and hospitals and a university system.

[-]

nwbrown@reddit

It's very poor and undeveloped.

[-]

Christophe12591@reddit

Puerto Rican descendant here. My father was 100 percent a full blown crazy rican’. Why would you leave the US for another country? People forget we are here because my father looked for a better life. The grass is always greener I guess

[-]

MarkNutt25@reddit

A few reasons off the top of my head:

Weak economy (few jobs, rampant poverty, low wages)
Language barrier
Hurricanes
Corrupt local government
Poor electrical infrastructure (random brownouts/blackouts and power surges)
No say in federal elections
Unwelcoming local community (you can only drive by so many graffitied walls saying "Gringo Go Home" before it starts to get to you)

[-]

Majestic_Electric@reddit

They’d lose their right to vote in the presidential election.

[-]

shthappens03250322@reddit

It was ceded to the US after the Spanish-American War. It and the pacific holdings acquired were not acquired for settlement, but for strategic naval operations as coaling stations.

[-]

RespectableBloke69@reddit

I know a few people who moved there thinking it would be like a permanent tropical vacation and moved back within a few years because of lack of job prospects.

[-]

ShakataGaNai@reddit

It's still "mostly Spanish". The average American would see little difference between PR and MX. It also has no Federal representation, no congress, no senate, no vote for president. It's not a state. Some federal taxes, but not all. So it's excluded from a lot of programs, or gets less federal funding. So... it's generally ignored. Washington DC is notorious for being terribly under represented, but you're better off in DC than PR.

It's a very "ya gotta love it to want to be there" type situation (or be rich enough to not care). Because of their island-nature and are basically 3rd class citizens of the USA... there is higher unemployment, higher poverty, and higher cost of basic necessities.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against PR. But I suspect most US citizens don't even know the above about PR. With a name like "Puerto Rico" there is probably a large contingent who think its somewhere in Mexico.

[-]

DrunkCommunist619@reddit

You'd lose the right like the ability to vote or have a say in mainland politics (it's a territory after all)
It's a poor island with little to no good job prospects
The locals are pretty much as unwelcoming to mainlanders as possible.
The island is already basically overpopulated and has a comparatively high cost of living.

[-]

Danibear285@reddit

April Fools is over