Adjusting to 121 and what to expect
Posted by mynamebackwardsis@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 28 comments
I recently got a CJO for a 121 FO position. I’ve been flying 135 for the past 2 years, so this will be a big change! I’ve been enjoying stability of a regular schedule, so a few things are shaking it up for me.
I guess I’m looking for tips on how to prepare for this transition and general things to know.
1) Class date is expected for July (no date given yet)
2) My lease ends in July (I extended 3 months, but landlord wants more info ASAP)
3) Do not know my base or when I’ll find out
4) Travel plans cancelled in June (won’t be able to get coverage at work if I leave in July, resulting in unhappy wife)
5) General uncertainty in the market (worried of being furloughed as soon as I start/possibility of having class date pushed out, also the reason I’m not taking a month off to travel prior to alleged start date)
6) Many decisions to make with no information
Is this kind of the norm when it comes to going to 121? How did you deal with uncertainty when changing jobs?
0621Hertz@reddit
The norm is be prepared for the worst.
So in your head prepare to be reserve in Puerto Rico for 6 months. But if anything better happens (probably) it puts you in a better mood and makes the wife more happy.
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
Thanks! Just out of curiosity, in case of reserve in a place like that, what does one generally do? Rent an Airbnb or take out a short term lease?
legimpster@reddit
They’re called “Crashpads”. Basically they’re houses for pilots who are based in places they can’t live. Gives them a place to “crash” for the night before a trip or if they have to sit on call reserve. Facebook groups are dedicated for pilot and FA crashpads.
0621Hertz@reddit
Usually there are Facebook groups for the specifics of that. There could be a “San Juan Crashpad” group.”
But your training department should give you guidance on the specifics if you were indeed gonna be SJU based for awhile.
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
We don’t have bases there, but the Facebook group bit is a great idea! Was mostly asking generally about being on reserve in an area I won’t be permanently relocating to. Thanks for the tip!!
auxilary@reddit
definitely look into crash pads in the cities your regional hubs out of.
at one point, i taught a 60 minute presentation to new hires on day one at a major. they were all quite older than me, mid-40’s and above. i still ran into new hires who couldn’t even get basic shit right like being on time or wearing clean clothes.
the number of new hires who forgot their passwords (which was just their last name and last 4 of social) on the first day alone used to blow my mind.
you’re biggest lift here is going to be earning the new type rating. if you’ve been flying a Cirrus for 5,000hrs part 121, you’re going to be in for quite a shock at indoc
i’d say 135 is the more stable move long-term, financially and mentally. you can bid for bases/jets as you build seniority, all while the pay scale is laid out clearly.
when i left, our biggest issue was not enough check captains to handle all the IOE that needed to get done.
videopro10@reddit
I would go ahead and extend that lease, if you end up based somewhere else it's easier to commute for a year than to have to find a new place to live, get approved for rent/mortage on 1st year pay, and move right when you're starting a new job.
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
Everyone has told me, commuting at this job is really not practical. I have never done 121, but I’m inclined to believe them. I suppose this is the main driver of stress about my lease situation. But I think you’re right, most likely I’ll extend for the shorter period I can while the dust settles and I get into the flow of things.
ObeyYourMasterr@reddit
Commuting ain’t that bad man. Unless you are trying to fly between two hubs for the same airline (DFW to ORD, ATL to MCO for example) you’ll rarely have a problem. I did DTW-DFW for over a year and currently doing DTW-ORD. I’ve never not made it home the day intended and was never late to work. There’s only been one time where I didn’t get a seat on my primary flight. People bitch and complain but your current 135 is probably more stressful than any airline job
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
Yeah I get that completely! I commute currently from a distance most wouldn’t dream of. But the 121 job I got is specifically noted as not commuter friendly, so I think it may be out of the question. We will see, but I’ve been warned it’s borderline not possible.
a_provo_yakker@reddit
They’re definitely right. 6 years ago, about this same time of year, I did the same. Lease was set to expire when I expected to be finishing IOE. Talked to them about extending and they knew I didn’t have specifics, but would tell them ASAP.
We got bases assigned real early on. I found out I’d be commuting to the east coast. Just out of pure curiosity I looked at the area and cost of living, and cost to move, and ruled it out (I knew I could be based here at home eventually if I was patient). Also didn’t want to deal with the cold. A lot of people in my class ended up getting a much closer mountain west domicile, like the month after our initial awards. Same thing, compared cost of living (astronomical) plus the cost to pack and move. Not even an option for me.
I even looked at places around the city, just to see if living nearer the airport would be doable, or just a change of pace. But my landlord was chill, always good to me, didn’t raise rent, so I renewed. The lease renewal date right was right when I was in the middle of IOE and then differences OE for the other CRJ types. Man that would have been awful to move. I also was fortuitous, going across the country was a long commute but my seniority kept climbing. Had a line by the time IOE was done. Not really any commuters or nonrevs on my route so rarely was an issue. Commuted to a line for six months. Got a nice Christmas gift that year, got a transfer home and officially was living in base Jan 2020.
You don’t even know what could happen, good or bad, in the short term. Much less long term. April 2020 was my 1 year anniversary and off probation, while others were waking up to see their airline was shutting down permanently. I thought I’d be looking at a commute for 18 months and it only took 9 (6 if you only count time after IOE). Had I gone with moving to some of the other bases my peers got early transfers to, it would have been more competitive commuting routes and my seniority would have been so stagnant (commuting to a line instantly, versus commuting to reserve probably till I eventually got that PHX award).
Look at the commute options to the domiciles your airline has, so you can get a feel for the flight times and sizes or aircraft and if your company happens to operate any of them. You should also have a good idea right now (maybe reading online) of what bases go to new hires. If you don’t live in a base for your airline, start looking (down the road, of course) at which will be better to commute to. And how relatively senior or junior they are (ie will you have an easier commute to ABC but it will take 6 months to hold + one more year of reserve; versus a tougher/longer commute that can be held sooner and off reserve). Once you’re actually there in class, you should also be able to start looking up the trips in each base (most airlines publish the bid packets - the lists of all the trips in each base - on the company intranet or somewhere in one of the document storage apps on the company iPad). That’s more ‘gee whiz’ info to focus on after training is done, but you can learn to read those and get a feel for the trips. Maybe they even publish a list of the monthly awards, so you can see everyone’s seniority and what trips or reserve days off they are getting.
Weasel474@reddit
Commuting is never great, but unless you’re at Allegiant or Breeze (who do only/mostly day turns), you can kinda make it work.
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
Exactly, there lies the problem haha
Ludicrous_speed77@reddit
Nothing is certain until you set your parking brake for the last time in 121 and retire. A lot of that is outside of your control (route cuts, economy, furloughs, mergers). Welcome and enjoy the ride.
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
lol, I love this!
Rev-777@reddit
You’ll certainly need to.
PullDoNotRotate@reddit
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
Seems about right! My only hope is it stinks less than my 135, otherwise I may just go back to it. Looks like being as flexible as possible is the way to succeed here.
PullDoNotRotate@reddit
I like being a Part 121 pilot, at least more than anything else I've found to do. I've worked for four airlines, and as much as I do miss at least one of them, when I made the decision to go I never looked back. Granted, the last decision I made to leave a job was in a year where my current employer would hire at least 1,000 pilots all junior to me, with 500 retirements coming off the top of the list too, so that sort of made it a "no sweat" sort of call.
mynamebackwardsis@reddit (OP)
I would have to agree with making the step and not looking back. It’s definitely an upgrade in terms of career progression, and the decrease in pay I may be seeing now is nothing compared to the potential this step unlocks for the future. I’m sure it will be fine, just a few points of contention won’t break me. Ultimately tho, I think 121 is the best move.
PullDoNotRotate@reddit
For sure. I hear about what 135 pilots do and I’m all “nah.” I’m glad they’re doing it so I don’t have to, ha!
hawker1172@reddit
Nothing is certain in 121 until you have passed training and are off probation
f1racer328@reddit
Even then it’s still uncertain. Displacements and furloughs happen too.
Most unstable career field. Glad I married someone who works for a bank, the second most unstable career field.
PullDoNotRotate@reddit
Would you like some volatility with your volatility?
jaylowgee@reddit
Keep your head down and simply do what is asked of you.
Baystate411@reddit
Like "gear down"
Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit
Those are all tough issues everyone has to deal with, you'll have to put yourself first for a while. Let the landlord be unhappy but the unhappy wife thing will need addressing. This won't be nearly the last time fleet or base or airline changes will affect her and that has to be dealt with. Not to sound like a jaded prick but better to be realistic now and have her leave than suffer for years and then give up half your pension while trying to max out to 1000 hours just to appease her for the rest of your days.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I recently got a CJO for a 121 FO position. I’ve been flying 135 for the past 2 years, so this will be a big change! I’ve been enjoying stability of a regular schedule, so a few things are shaking it up for me.
I guess I’m looking for tips on how to prepare for this transition and general things to know.
1) Class date is expected for July (no date given yet)
2) My lease ends in July (I extended 3 months, but landlord wants more info ASAP)
3) Do not know my base or when I’ll find out
4) Travel plans cancelled in June (won’t be able to get coverage at work if I leave in July, resulting in unhappy wife)
5) General uncertainty in the market (worried of being furloughed as soon as I start/possibility of having class date pushed out, also the reason I’m not taking a month off to travel prior to alleged start date)
6) Many decisions to make with no information
Is this kind of the norm when it comes to going to 121? How did you deal with uncertainty when changing jobs?
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