Senior IT Support specialist wants promotion to Jr Sys Admin
Posted by Double_Confection340@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 325 comments
I am the senior sys admin here and I have been working with this guy for almost 6 years.
He was already promoted once and I guess the salary at his position is maxed out and he wants a title change and a salary increase.
He's a nice guy and all and works hard. The issue is he is incredibly reliant on me to figure things out for him and I am getting sick and tried of his bullshit questions. Like really dumb shit that he should already know nearly 6 years into the job, so dumb that I have started to take notes of some of the questions he asks:
ONGOING: Continues to send me New Hire Alerts despite being aware of how to create new users(recently showed him how to set up new users).
3/27 – Missing New Hire Alert for end user. He asked me to access his machine via ZOHO to search for a ‘missing New Hire Alert’ email. The email was in his deleted items because he had set a rule that routed New Hire Alerts there.
3/27 – Sent me a screenshot showing the ‘Attributes’ tab missing from end user's account. The tab was missing because he had done a search for her account in AD. When I navigated to the OU where the user was located and checked the properties, the 'Attributes' tab was present.
3/31 – Sent me a screenshot from end user, mentioning that the new print driver(on the new print server which I set up) wasn’t working due to a missing paper output size in the ‘Page Setup’ button. After speaking with end user, I suggested using the ‘Printing Preferences’ option to change paper sizes. The print driver itself wasn't the issue, and no troubleshooting was needed.
4/1 – Sent me a screenshot of a user at who couldn’t modify contents within a folder. The user hadn’t been added to the correct security group, so IT Support Specialist added them to the right group. While changes in Active Directory take time to replicate, IT Support Specialist asked me immediately about the issue and asked me to remote into the machine to help with troubleshooting. After having the user log out and reboot, the issue persisted. However, after about 30 minutes, the problem resolved itself as AD likely completed the replication.
The CIO said he is open to promoting him but he needs to meet certain criteria or attain some additional skills.
I have told the guy for several years to try and attain some certs. He bought a couple of used Fortigate's a few years ago on Ebay and he spent maybe a couple of days using them and are currently collecting dust under his desk. He also bought some desktops to use as VMWare Hosts and uses them maybe once a year for trying out stuff.
What's funny is he only starts showing interest in this stuff around January or February every year. Our yearly reviews are in March.
I'm thinking of telling the CIO to make it a condition that he has to attain some kind of certification to be promoted. We're an on-prem environment with 365. I'm thinking maybe the AZ900 because then he will be forced to read/watch the training content instead of coming over to me asking a million questions about it, especially since we don't use Azure.
Any thoughts?
mx915@reddit
this doesn't seem like a skill issue...
DifficultyDouble860@reddit
Is it the bullshit basic questions, or the lack of going to research an answer in the usual place? Only one of those can be fixed...
KapperClapper@reddit
Imposter syndrome cured! Thank you!!
ThreadParticipant@reddit
Does he report to you? I'm kind of getting the feeling you've contributed to the whole issue by spoon-feeding him for so long. I'm only saying this because 6 years is an eternity and they are still struggling with some simple tasks... there needs to be some sort of performance management plan put in.
Wanderer-2609@reddit
I wouldnt promote him. He needs the drive to get things done and willingless to learn otherwise you'll have hired a paperweight. He shouldve reached a point by now where he "got it" and he clearly still doesnt get it.
michaelpaoli@reddit
I'd go for the much more practical criteria - well show the relevant knowledge, skills, and experience (as feasible, and need not be limited to work experience), and also the levels of competency, professionalism, relative independence, etc., that should be quite required for a sysadmin position. If the candidate (or employee in this case) doesn't sufficiently measure up to/for the position, they don't get the offer/promotion. That's basically it. If there's really a need/drive to fill the position, then actually recruit and interview for it ... and if you can get substantially better, or beyond that, in bang for the buck with external candidates, than internal, then you go with the external. But if it's even match, or even quite "close enough", then you go with internal (external is generally slightly more risky, being less of a known entity compared to internal). So, e.g., most of the places I've worked, unless there was a hiring freeze or the like, much of the time it wasn't so much a question of does/doesn't someone get promoted, but position opened, internal candidates encouraged to apply (and if hiring freeze, maybe only opened to internal, or only opens to external if it's critical and can't fill from internal after some significant period of time). So, yeah, should not only well meet relevant criteria, but in most cases ought also be reasonably compared to suitable external candidates ... then relevant decisions made (and sometimes position may stay open for a while, e.g. if sufficiently qualified candidates just aren't being easily found - sometimes the market is like that).
And ... 6 years ... that's a long time to not be well advancing ... but IT, that generally highly depends upon the person. I've seen, in 5 years, folks hired, barely competent for bottom level entry level ... and ... 5+ years later they don't know sh*t beyond the day they started - even when surrounded by opportunities to further learn and skill up - etc., even lots of employer provided and paid for resources and educational opportunities - such that many persons would dream of an employer that so well backed such educational and training opportunities. So, yeah, that person will still probably be doing same sh*t at same level 40 0r more years later when they retire - from same position. Meanwhile, I've seen, within 5 years, someone change from totally different not at all IT field, study their *ss off on relevant knowledge, skills, get all the experience they feasibly could on their own (without work!), get an entry level position, learn like heck and climb like gangbusters ... in a span of 5 years (about 2 not working and training themselves, and 3 of being employed), they were flying past many highly stilled sr. level folks with 7+ years experience as if they were standing still. They went from in debt and almost out on the street in a crud apartment in a not good neighborhood, to buying their first house - 5 bedroom, 2 car garage, full basement, in a good neighborhood - all within that span of time. So, yeah, sure, most won't clime at that hire a rate (that's like less than 1 in 1,000 that would manage to do that), but it is very possible. And, at the same time, others, 5+ years, they won't learn much, or they'll plateau at a level far below that ... and in fact most will (approximately) plateau at some level below those higher sr. level roles. Yeah, sounds to me like that coworker is (approximately) plateauing at or around the level they're already performing at - doesn't exactly sound like they're well and quickly improving or continuing to climb in their knowledge and performance.
kaka8miranda@reddit
If this is in Tampa, MA, or remote hire me. I’m looking and can do all of that and more along with Sec+ cert
Laid off Jan 2, 6 weeks after closing on a home and moving across the country.
Economy_Audience_128@reddit
It was the attributes missing, if you don’t know this then you are not ready for the next level!
BuzzKiIIingtonne@reddit
I'd be afraid to let such a person touch anything important...
BoatFlashy@reddit
Six years in and doesn't know stuff he should know six months in. Your cert idea is perfect, he should also learn how to google a thing or two.
MBILC@reddit
Getting a cert wont change their method of thinking at all. Plenty of people can do certs but can not apply the knowledge they learned, there is book smarts and then their is "figuring it out" smarts, sounds like this person does not pay attention, does not retain info, does not take notes....
Personally after 6 years if this was still ongoing, I would be telling the person they are not qualified to move up and list why.
Now, I do also ask, from the other side, how well has OP trained said person, how much hand holding do they do just to get things done vs letting the Jr actually fail on their own...
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
For me, the cert idea is less about him applying what he learned about Azure in real life, and more about forcing him to figure stuff out on his own without relying on me for help. There is tons of study material out there for stuff like Azure and since we don’t use it here, he has no other choice but to study, learn and memorize.
The problem is, he’s not very articulate, and terms like Governance, Resource Groups, RBAC, Scale Sets, Kubernetes, and others will probably go right over his head right now. But understanding what these things are and how they work together is a key part of the SysAdmin role.
As for handholding him/letting him fail on his own, I’m absolutely guilty of handholding him however now that he is pursuing a higher role, going to speak with management and let him know he needs to be more self reliant and not be so dependent on me if this is the position he is seeking.
Although I’m sure his expectation is that I’m supposed to sit down with him and explain everything I do and how to do it(like 4 times because that’s how long it takes for him to get it).
Not going to do that.
caveboat@reddit
I'm working with a guy like this and he did the exact thing you described about the 'Attributes' tab missing when opening the Properties of an AD object. Problem is, we're both in the help desk so I'm not his senior.
I keep picking up his slack.
He keeps getting away with taking equipment home and I loathe that I cannot say anything, because that would just come off as me being petty or a snitch. Also, I feel like this behavior was rewarded when he got his first promotion.
I have PMDD and terrible rumination habits so for 1-2 weeks this fucking eats me up from the inside.
If he's not alone in his position or if there are people less senior than him, then please don't bend over backwards to help him.
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
Haha ya regarding the Attributes thing, certainly is annoying although someone in this thread it is a known 'bug'. Not sure if that is true or not.
BoatFlashy@reddit
When I was a junior I asked my boss a lot of really simple questions, him telling me to learn google was probably the best advice I've gotten. In my current job I don't think I've asked my boss any questions outside of things specific to our network.
MBILC@reddit
If you are not failing, you are not learning is an expression often used, along with "Give a man a fish, they will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and they will eat for ever"
Them telling you to use google is teaching you how to fish.. It is teaching you skills of how to locate information and filter out the bad and find what you need, and become efficient at it..
It builds a mental process in your head, at least for me, where everything becomes a root cause analysis.
My wife is still stunned when she asks me to look for something and off i go, search for X, open numerous tabs for results I think could be useful, skim read for key content and find the answer or option, meanwhile she spent all day looking and could not find anything...
Centimane@reddit
Given OP is a Sr. Sys admin and person in question is a Sr. Support tech, it's likely OP wasn't responsible for the techs training at all. The tech should have been trained by more senior techs along the way and possibly consumed documentation OP had a hand in, but I suspect that's as far as OP would have been responsible.
RikiWardOG@reddit
Did you guys really get training on the way up? I feel like all my learning has been either forced via client/company needed something done or I learned it on my own. It's more imo a personality trait that you either have or you don't. You have to just be naturally curious.
Centimane@reddit
I never got training. Thrown to the wolves.
But as a result I've trained many juniors so they don't have to experience the same.
Good workplaces should be training their juniors. I would definitely hold the seniors responsible for training the juniors. Whether or not they do is a different story.
vCentered@reddit
I suppose it depends on what we mean by training.
These days it's become very common, I would almost say it's the new normal, that if junior staff don't know how to do something they're allowed to just sit around and wait for someone to show them.
Don't know how to change an attribute on an AD account? Sit and wait.
Don't know what this app error message means? Sit and wait.
Don't know how to add someone to a security group? Sit and wait.
Don't know how to troubleshoot network connectivity issues? Sit and wait.
There was a time when I was asked questions about things like this during helpdesk interviews. I had to show that I understood the troubleshooting process, had basic technical skills, could figure things out on my own and wasn't going to escalate every silly little thing to senior staff. And could justify the things I did escalate.
Today junior sysadmin staff are allowed to sit around and do nothing until someone holds their hand and they want 20% raises every year.
For some reason we've stopped expecting people to have basic skills or take any responsibility for being effective in their roles.
We expect the people who do make that effort to burn themselves out and pave the way to easy promotions for the people who don't.
IT leadership allow it to happen because it's easier to just expect the one or two good people you have to "just do a little more" than to expect the rest to be worth a damn or replace them with people who are.
RikiWardOG@reddit
This is so accurate to my experience. If someone wants to learn and grow they will otherwise they do exactly that. Sit around and pretend they can't figure it out on their own, so they can get someone else to do it and take credit.
210Matt@reddit
Sounds like you are hiring bad JRs. Mine are all great and I spend more time slowing them down to look at the big picture than them waiting for an answer and doing nothing. Also, I have trained them to try to find a answer and ask me if they are correct. This builds confidence and lets me know when they are ready for the next level.
Centimane@reddit
Sounds like this describes your management more than anything. What you describe has not been my experience with juniors in the last 5 years. Most have been hungry to learn and improve. Some have not been good and we're let go.
RikiWardOG@reddit
this is they type of person who is career helpdesk, at best helpdesk manager role
MBILC@reddit
I knew one person like this, they were about 50 and they worked the help desk at an MSP I was at, and they enjoyed it. They like the same routine day to day, clock in at X clock out at Y, no project worries, after hours work, just the same ol same ol....
I wish my brain would let me do that some days!
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
Which is why I hate certs most of the time.
Some people are those sorts of people who can pass a thousand certs but can't speak to a single part of them nor do they seem to have the ability to do any independent thinking.
Its just a book learning, test taking, memory game. Once passed you can eject everything you 'learned' immediately.
Wow, what a ton of microsoft certs, shame I saw you ask chatgpt how to change an AD attribute...
IdidntrunIdidntrun@reddit
People are wrong to pass certs via memory dumps and not apply the knowledge, that's true.
But I also think you're wrong to judge someone for needing to lookup the occaisional simple task. I mean go ahead and judge, it's your right. But I do that shit from time to time too lol.
I would rather make sure I do the simple thing correctly than be a double-idiot who didn't do the simple thing right AND didn't look it up to confirm. That's even worse, I'm sure you agree
MBILC@reddit
We all look up basic things, things we use but maybe forgot, or there is a new way, or just want to be sure..
This is more about people who cannot think outside of the box, cannot do basic google searches to find info and filter through crap...
People whom if things do not go by the book, like most people you talk to on the phone for support, they lose it because "OMG What do I do now! This wasnt in the book or steps I am following!"
forestsntrees@reddit
Oops I just said same basic thing. 😅
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
Bingo.
Theres a large group of people who can't ever figure out what to do and always need to be told what to do. By someone, something.
IT_fisher@reddit
Ive always said that asking “Why?” Is just as important to asking “How?”.
IdidntrunIdidntrun@reddit
I agree in OP's coworker's case it's bad. You can see in my other comments I agree the situation
But in the above comment I was replying to /u/itishowitisanditsbad's comment, specifically this part:
forestsntrees@reddit
We all look things up all the time. I've been doing AD since it became a thing, I still have to refresh my memory, and I don't want or need to remember every command I ever use.
The point is that some people are IT cert collectors and not well-suited for it in practice.
The only shade being thrown here is toward the LMGTFY types.
ms6615@reddit
One of our desktop support techs supposedly has both a MS Office specialist cert and an M365 admin cert…yet recently sent me a teams message asking about an extremely basic setting in a power automate flow that sends an email. Everyone else on my team at every level has multiple certs but I am one of two people who can actually accomplish any work. I just can’t comprehend how someone passes an M365 admin cert exam but is baffled when told to check an Entra user’s sign in log.
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
Well that wasn't on the test.
If it wasn't taught to them, they don't know how to find out for themselves.
This is why a jack of all trades is nice sometimes, they're used to jumping from thing to thing and just figuring shit out rather than hammering away at a single system to the point they forget how to learn new things.
SoonerMedic72@reddit
I often wrestle with whether knowing a little bit about a lot of things is better/worse than knowing a lot of things about a little bit. I think there is a balance that needs to be had. You have to know a lot about at least one thing, even if you are mostly a general practitioner.
MBILC@reddit
"The only reason I am in IT, is because my Google-fu is better than yours" - someone a long time ago...
ElectricOne55@reddit
Ya I agree. I think some people in tech are know it alls as well and expect you to remember these really niche technical steps that you would only come across once every 12 weeks or so. I have that happen with projects in my role. My manager will randomly quiz me in meetings, but I'm like bro wtf no one just memorizes this shit off the top of their head unless they have no life.
sitesurfer253@reddit
I would take a "I know how to find the answer" person over a "I have a cert showing I answered the question once" person every day of the week.
In my experience the only people who have certs had some incentive from their employer like an MSP and would be just as able to complete a task without it, or they loaded up on certs to build up their resume and are still just as likely to be helpless and not able to figure anything out independently.
Not saying certs mean you're helpless, just saying they aren't a good indicator of someone's abilities to solve a problem.
I'd love to see a practical cert that required problem solving skills. I've heard Microsoft is moving towards that concept and I really hope it helps weed out the people who just use data dumps to pass a cert and never think about it again.
akastormseeker@reddit
I'm an 'I know how to find the answer' person. My problem, though, is that it doesn't really look as good on a resume. So I got some certs, and now I get more bites when applying, that gives me the chance to show that I'm more than just book smart.
My point is you need both. The certs to get you in the door, and the smarts to keep you there.
MBILC@reddit
Def, it is the flawed hiring proces, no certs, your not good enough. Sure, certs at a certain point justify and prove your experience, which is what HR / hiring people want to see. But when younger people are just coming into the job market, they do not have much experience, because no one will hire them, because they have no experience....then they get certs, but then still cant get hired, because they have no actual experience!
I am at an age I hope my experience shows over my lack of not having a single cert...
lostcatlurker@reddit
This is exactly what I’ve done with all of my certs except for Netapp, because I actually use that knowledge daily. All the other certs I got just to support pay raises.
genderless_sox@reddit
I worked with a guy who was so good at studying and getting certs, but couldn't think through basic AD troubleshooting or security requirements
Soulinx@reddit
I half agree about the certs. It's absolutely better to go to a class for it that is instructor lead vs DIY learning for some folks. As for helping others learn, I was taught that it can help someone learn when they ask a question, you ask them another question that can point them in the right direction and them figuring it out. Take the attributes tab mentioned. When they were shown a picture of AD, they could ask, "ok, you're in AD. Is there another place to find XYZ besides ADUC?" Though 6 years is a long time, especially if it's for very similar issues, which is what it does sound like. They need to start using OneNote and keeping notes.
MBILC@reddit
Getting them to see things from another perspective, certainly can work, asking those questions back to question their line of thinking...
Get them digging deeper to hopefully realize there might not only be 1 solution / option for something. And if they come at it from another angle, it may become more clear for them.
three-one-seven@reddit
There’s a critical mass of expertise necessary to master a skill, and experience is one way — and arguably the single best way — to get there, but it’s not the only way.
A certain amount of exposure to the material ( combined with experience, ofc) is needed to achieve that critical mass. Studying for a cert exam is another way to get there. That’s the value of certs, in my view. Doubly so if you’re the kind of person who does the labs in cert training courses, but that person probably also tries harder to learn on the job than OP’s coworker seems to.
MBILC@reddit
And we all learn differently as well. I need to do something to learn it. Reading a book does nothing for me, reading a guide, while not following along, does nothing for me.
Let me get my hands dirt and fail along the way and search for why things arent working.. and I will pick it up instantly.
ElectricOne55@reddit
I agree, plus who is going to remember a bunch of random technical steps off the top of their head if you only come across some of those issues once every 2 months or so.
NATChuck@reddit
I have yet to meet someone who can obtain legitimate certs who cannot also do a good job.
TubbyTag@reddit
Yup. This guy will never change. You can't fix work ethic. I see guys like this all the time. Lurk under the radar and nobody wants to correct it fire them.
uptimefordays@reddit
In all honesty my complaint about certifications is they encourage "learning a tool" rather than learning and understanding computing concepts or fundamentals. AZ900 is well and good but what you really want is for your colleague to learn and understand 365 administration which requires some additional conceptual knowledge of things like account creation, access control, and so-forth.
punkwalrus@reddit
This is such a big deal. It's not just what you know, but how you apply it. This is becoming a huge learning gap in the industry, and one of my chief frustrations with outsourcers. No impetus to learn or figure stuff out, just passing the buck, doing the least.
forestsntrees@reddit
You get 1, maybe 2 questions when the answer is on the first page of google results before you're dead to me.
WitnessRadiant650@reddit
People ask me for help and I end up pasting a link to the google search return because the first post is the correct answer.
420shaken@reddit
How do they even have a senior support specialist title? They are constantly asking for additional help on pretty basic things. Giving them the JR title will increase their pay but also make them someone else's problem later because they will go somewhere else thinking they're all badass now.
I say just give them a simple 5 question test. They must visually accomplish them all correctly in X amount of time. They can even use a search engine to find the answer, just don't tell them that. No pass=no title/raise. I'm not saying that certs are bogus, however, you can tell when someone cram sessioned their way versus actually knowing the answer.
summerof91@reddit
On the attributes tab: assure you have advanced view on, open a group the user is a member of, open the user. Job done! Or better yet for someone targeting a sysadmin job: powershell.
ARJeepGuy123@reddit
I wouldn't promote anyone to sysadmin who can't do basic troubleshooting
z_agent@reddit
Are you responsible for his training or the reviewing manager? If not.....just tell the bosses he is not ready for a promotion and move on!
Not your circus, not your monkeys
PwntIndustries@reddit
I was a helpdesk tech for about 6 years. The pay at this place is actually decent, and considering the breadth of systems we had to support, it takes about a year to get exposed to most of them and get comfortable with working in the environment. During that time, getting help from sys admins was difficult. We came up with a LOT of funky work-around fixes to help the end users where we could.
If it involved a more specialized system, usually then we could get an admin involved once we ruled out all the potential easy fixes.
I was eventually promoted to Lead Tech and did that for about a bit before being offered an admin position, which I was hesitant to take. The admin team assured me they were fine with coaching me on it, and management was fine with drip-feeding me small projects to get familiarized with the environment.
Now we have a newer generation of helpdesk techs, and one of them seems to be so scared to do any troubleshooting, even after being here for multiple years. They are more than happy to try to push stuff up to the admins to get things off their plate as well as using us as their brain-extension rather than going to Google.
OPs "lead tech" is giving me similar vibes.
WolfMack@reddit
There is nothing technical about the AZ900…
jbglol@reddit
How did he get promoted to any senior position if he can't even find his own emails? Sounds like you guys promoting him constantly, despite him not being qualified for any of the promotions, led him to believe he would be promoted again.
If you promote a senior support specialist who can't troubleshoot anything to save his life to sysadmin just because he got a single cert, I can promise it will not end well for anyone in your org.
stupidic@reddit
Sounds like he knows how to play a piano, but can't make music. He can barely plunk out a tune. He has no real understanding on how things work - he's just memorized a lot of data.
MrDigitFace@reddit
Reminds me of a quote from the show New Girl: “I’m not convinced I know how to read, i’ve just memorized a lot of words.”
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
YES YES YES. He can memorize stuff but doesn’t take the time to understand what is actually happening behind his work so his troubleshooting skills are very poor.
Xambassadors@reddit
You probably won't see this, but in case you do, the az900 is ridiculously easy. It took me 2 days to study for it and i scored 850. Don't demand anything less than 1 or 2 associate level certs which do require partical knowledge to pass
CracklingRush@reddit
I'd more-so recommend lobbying to get him fired, heh.
fio247@reddit
Might make a good typist.
Stonewalled9999@reddit
most places you get promoted to the level of your incompetence. I think that is how I made director 10 years ago.
IdidntrunIdidntrun@reddit
The guy must be super likeable. Or a nepo hire. No one gets this far to the point where OP still thinks "maybe if we tell him to get a cert he can get promoted".
Who else gets that much benefit of the doubt with this much handholding? People you like, or friends/family of the boss/executive board
MBILC@reddit
This.
Brave_Rough_6713@reddit
you let this junior person you don't trust bring fortigates into your organization to experiment with them? how are you a sysadmin?
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
They’re not on the network and neither are his VMWare hosts calm down.
Brave_Rough_6713@reddit
...and vmware hosts?!
i thought the same thing about the new guy's FOG server until it was.
evantom34@reddit
The questions he's asking lead me to believe he's not ready.
TheSuperGringo760511@reddit
Show him this document:
https://community.spiceworks.com/t/how-to-troubleshoot-anything/381330
Make him adapt the document to his cases BEFORE he escalates to you.
If he hasnt improved dramatically in 6 months, he cant move up.
TheSuperGringo760511@reddit
AZ 900 is a solid choice, Network+, and Security+ also worthy curriculums. That said those are associate level certs, not senior level certs.
PaidByMicrosoft@reddit
There are a lot of times I think I'm not qualified to be a sysadmin, and then I read stories about actual helpdesk people and feel relieved and vindicated in my abilities.
ElectricOne55@reddit
I agree. I work in migrations where we have these long 8 to 12 week projects with 20+ steps. Sometimes, it cna be easy to forget an issue you haven't seen for 20+ weeks. Like who the fuck remembers random niche technical issues of the top of their head?
altodor@reddit
Yeah same. Hell, sometimes I read or see what other people that allege to be peers think and do and realize that despite being kind of an idiot, I'm probably in the above average half of the field. Then I get sad.
CracklingRush@reddit
You a rock star, bro.
Nossa30@reddit
This guy has 1 year or experience, 6 times.
IdidntrunIdidntrun@reddit
More like he's got 3 months of experience 24 times
baryoniclord@reddit
I chuckled my coffee all over my papers when I read this. Nice.
stephendt@reddit
This guy wouldn't have made it through the interview in our org, and that's for an L1 position
TrilliumHill@reddit
I won't even interview someone who's stayed in an entry level position for that long.
firehydrant_man@reddit
either he's too lazy to learn or do anything or too dumb, wouldn't want him either way honestly, I expect an intern to ask some of these questions and google some more not a senior on the job
yawnmasta@reddit
There are so many people who are like this
MBILC@reddit
Sounds like it, should not of been promoted the first time if they cannot do the basics after 6 years...
MrITSupport@reddit
We just let go of someone who was still in probation for not following instructions or searching for the answers themselves. Very basic stuff if you work in I.T !
MartinGoldfinger@reddit
That’s a no from me, dog. Having an email rule for New Hire Alerts to the trash is a red flag for me.
BerkeleyFarmGirl@reddit
Yeah I have to agree. If I saw that behavior I would be having a conversation with my management.
Sea_Fault4770@reddit
I had an attorney send all of my and the firm administrator emails to his Junk folder. When asked: "WHHHY?" His response was: "I have severe ADHD. I didn't name it the Junk folder. Microsoft did. It's how I know to check it." He also had numerous other rules routed properly to folders that were in his favorite tree. But, his Junk folder was empty.
BerkeleyFarmGirl@reddit
Oh he's special.
Darkhexical@reddit
I mean at least he's taking ownership to doing it.
Sea_Fault4770@reddit
That doesn't make his face less punchable. He's not a partner.
BunchAlternative6172@reddit
This guy is in no way senior lol. I'm honestly surprised he's been coasting this long and has the nerve to ask that.
Juicy_Smooliay@reddit
I have 1.5 years of experience and no Senior Sysadmin ahead of me, all the things you mentioned I've known for at least a year and my title is IT-Support still. I thought I had imposter syndrome but now I'm not even worried.
Morlu06@reddit
I’d definitly be stressing a few basic certs that would do a wonder for them.
EricsonGQMan33@reddit
I’m guessing being an adult and giving the individual a list of things they need to work on and certifications they need to get is out the question?
DeadStockWalking@reddit
Y'all hired an idiot and keep promoting him.
He can't even do the most basic shit. Stop helping him and its sink or swim time. Which should have happened 3-6 months in.
223454@reddit
Pay/compensation is a big factor. I've worked at places that could barely hire and retain people. They might get the odd qualified person here or there, but they wouldn't stay because pay was well below market. This person might be right where they belong and OP might be expecting too much. I'm just saying those types of places exist.
Vogete@reddit
We had some people like this as well... I got really fed up with them. They were also full of themselves, always claiming they are right, when in fact, they were extremely wrong all the time.
bluescreenfog@reddit
Falling upwards! He'll make a great CTO!
KnowledgeTransfer23@reddit
This one has gotten me before. I blame Microsoft.
techtornado@reddit
This guy reminds me of the main protagonist in The Chronicles of George
https://www.chroniclesofgeorge.com/
We all make mistakes and usually remember most of them, but your version of George has memory persistence issues which is really bad for IT work.
Also, don't introduce him to ChatGPT, you will create a monster
ElectricOne55@reddit
I agree. I also think some people in tech act like know it alls. Yet some of the stuff you come acroos you may not see for another 8 weeks, so who is going to remember random niche technical issues of the top of their head?
techtornado@reddit
People who think they know everything annoy those of us who do ;)
But yes the know it all’s who don’t know anything are a time suck
The problem OP has is that George should know how to create users and pull emails out of junk/deleted
ElectricOne55@reddit
Ya I do migrations that involve 20+ steps. Sometimes, there will be an issue that I won't see for 8 weeks or so. Then if I ask my teammates they'll take awhile to respond, which is weird. My manager is weird about it too because sometimes in 1 on 1s he'll quiz me on random shit. I'll just be expecting a 1 on 1 touch up and he'll go into these hypothetical bullshit questions. It's weird too because we work with Google Cloud, which not many people use outside of this role, and there's not as much support documents like Microsoft has.
WoodenHarddrive@reddit
We moved an office admin, receptionist level employee to help desk 6 months ago, at her request. She is already head and shoulders above the guy you are describing. That is borderline weaponized incompetence.
Ok_Mention6990@reddit
I think companies like yours are where interested people go to die. It’s a strict regimen of staying in your lane. The guy is probably really bored and when bored it’s hard to learn.
Instead of wasting his time with a bs cert. why don’t you suggest a proper one. And while you’re at it. Why don’t you stop acting like the typical IT dude who thinks he is better than everyone else.
Everyone was that guy at some point.
ElectricOne55@reddit
I agree. I also think some people in tech act like know it alls. Yet some of the stuff you come acroos you may not see for another 8 weeks, so who is going to remember random niche technical issues of the top of their head?
WashedPinkBourbon@reddit
You know, I have deep imposter syndrome as a Tier II tech all of the time. This validated that I shouldn't feel like an imposter
HealthySurgeon@reddit
Do you want him to be promoted/grow?
Part of that comes from the guidance you can provide.
One of the hallmarks of a sysadmin when comparing with helpdesk is that a sysadmin finds the answers on their own. They’re self-sufficient. They know how to search for documentation and answers in forums and they can apply that to what they’re doing.
If he’s not even hinting at those things (like you’re saying) then he shouldn’t be anywhere near even a junior sysadmin position.
The difference literally is basically, “do you need to be given instructions” or “can you find the instructions on your own”
Once they start being able to contribute to others or the community, start thinking about further promotions beyond that, but to make it to sysadmin, you should be able to do your job without someone hovering over your shoulder to tell you how to do it.
A senior sysadmin, can lead the way when it comes to these things, teaching other team members how to be more self-sufficient and helping them grow into their career, wherever that might lead.
PersonBehindAScreen@reddit
Az 900 is NOT what he should get if you’re trying to make him get a cert.
As a support specialist at the time I got it, it took me just 1 day of study and then I took it. No previous azure or o365 experience at the time. That cert is meant for sales-y/management types who want to know what azure is
RyuKhai@reddit
Damn, i'm underpaid
NovaRyen@reddit
Ugh I am half you and half him. I ask dumb questions in our Teams chat and then rubber-duck debug and figure them out, then chastise myself for being stupid. Idk why asking for help ends up being the first instinct when if I just think about it for a second I can usually figure it out.
Angy_Fox13@reddit
Everything else aside....speaking as an old timey MCSE....Certs are "over": overpriced, overrated, and overvalued. Give me the guy who on my team who can just figure stuff out on his own because that Azure cert will be outdated info before you're even done your course.
AdvantageMain3953@reddit
I have a rule, don't ask me the question until you've done some research on it. Instead of taking 30 seconds to go a Google search, the folks I work with will just pass the question off to someone else to research. I'm not your goddamn secretary, take some ownership.
B4rberblacksheep@reddit
There’s only one thing special about this guy and it ain’t his job title
EastKarana@reddit
Definitely not ready, sounds like this guy may not really have the motivation to learn either.
Faithlessness4337@reddit
When he comes to you with a problem that you feel he should be able to resolve, you need to stop fixing it. Instead, let him know that these are the types of things that he is expected to be able to accomplish/resolve/know BEFORE being promoted. Then ask him questions, guide him if needed, but make him do the work. It will be slower at first, but when he realizes you aren’t going to do the work for him, or even just tell him what he needs to do, he “should” start taking initiative. If not, it’s time to start searching.
Murhawk013@reddit
Don’t reward people for mediocre work
hurkwurk@reddit
This. hes not looking for a promotion, hes looking for seniority pay increases.
Dude thinks years of service = pay me more.
Time to give him the harsh reality lesson that you are already paying him more than hes worth.
KennanFan@reddit
I've dealt with this at a previous tech job. Years of service means jack shit, in my opinion. It's a fun thing to pay kudos to on company social media, but that's about it. It's detrimental for morale to have highly competent employees made to be subordinate to a mediocre employee just because the mediocre employee has been just good enough to not get fired for a long time.
twistacatz@reddit
I agree this guy sounds like an idiot. You definitely don’t want to have to work with him more.
HugeAlbatrossForm@reddit
You think HARD WORK gets you rewarded in your career!?! 😂 😂 😆
Murhawk013@reddit
GOOD work not hard will get you rewarded. Whether it’s at your place or another is a different story
Holmesless@reddit
Being cozy with the boss gets you pay increases ftfy
NotzoCoolKID@reddit
Yes it does actually.
Obvious-Water569@reddit
Getting certs won't help him and, if he gets the promotion based on having certs, he won't help you.
You're describing a person with little to no problem solving ability. From the questions you've noted in the post, this person shouldn't even hold the position he does, let alone a more senior one.
Obvious-Water569@reddit
Getting certs won't help him and, if he gets the promotion based on having certs, he won't help you.
You're describing a person with little to no problem solving ability. From the questions you've noted in the post, this person shouldn't even hold the position he does, let alone a more senior one.
Jellovator@reddit
Long time sysadmin here. I want a promotion to goat farmer in some country that doesn't have cell service.
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
I'll accept a landline without an answering machine.
If there is no internet.
NASdreamer@reddit
Goat farming is highly lucrative. You can sell goat milk, yogurt, goat soap…
And can also rent out a flock of goats to clear stubborn growth from fields. This doesn’t even consider the entertainment factor of adding in some fainting goats just for fun.
Goat farming or duck farming. Should be the ultimate escape from IT. Sign me up for a weekend trial once you get going!
dontstoptheRocklin@reddit
I read it as "landmine" at first and was in agreement.
But yours works too.
Djglamrock@reddit
lol I read that as landmine as well and thought, “Well this took an unexpected turn”.
CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit
I just want a Moto flip phone.
dengar69@reddit
I can help you. Here is your new boss.
JSmith666@reddit
The work is mysterious and important
Both-Professional632@reddit
Emile thanks you
Bitter-Compote-3016@reddit
Just don't try to take the goat.
tvtb@reddit
Best I can offer is yak shaver.
techtornado@reddit
I'm halfway there, I'm farming my land as best as I can here in the rainforests of Tennessee
Cell service isn't that great thankfully
changework@reddit
Rent a goat is a really great business!
cocainebane@reddit
Baaaaaaaaaaaaa
ServerHamsters@reddit
Amen!
Ok_Conclusion5966@reddit
create him a quiz of things you already taught and showed him
tell him if he wants to be the junior sys admin he should be able to figure these out on his own AND create documentation with the solution
bonus points if you use chatgpt then make it environment specific so he can't cheat
SuccessfulBase9358@reddit
I’m creating accounts, deploying software to the firm on weekly basis, testing and applying GPOs, migrating to new license models on SaaS applications, setting up okta app integrations, logging into servers, and more. All as a helpdesk specialist. Not even a Sr one.
Dikvin@reddit
Had a similar situation years ago.
The solution was to give him the responsibility of new equipment and technology that I couldn't do because they were time consuming and reporting directly to my supervisor.
Nothing happened, he couldn't do it, and then my supervisor understood by himself the situation.
mobiplayer@reddit
Make them write a document supporting his application for Jr Sys Admin. Ask him to explain his progress and accomplishments and how he is performing already at the required level.
Once the document presented is reviewed and it's obviously shit, help them come up with a plan for promotion with timelines such as 6 months, 12 months, 18 months (as you see necessary). Give them clear objectives and targets.
And in all fairness, a Jr Sys Admin is still expected to be hand holded by Sr staff. Not saying he is at that level now, don't get me wrong, just stating what's reasonable to put in their goals.
MAX-H3ADR00M@reddit
I’m more concerned as to what skillset actually qualifies the “Senior” in “Senior IT Support Specialist”…
SngJnW00@reddit
Hire me instead hahaha
Vogete@reddit
3/27 legit drove me crazy though. How are attributes not showing in search, only if you happen to know exactly what OU a user is in?
EvenClock9@reddit
If you cba to search through your OUs : Search for the user -> Group tab -> Open a group -> Close the user's properties -> Open his properties via the member list.
ms6615@reddit
Because the attributes tab isn’t a part of the standard view. This should be considered very cursory knowledge for anyone who has been doing this for multiple years. Just because it’s bad coding on the dev’s part doesn’t absolve you from knowing that’s how the software works when it’s your job to know it.
If someone from payroll admitted to you that they’d been doing it for 6+ years but weren’t actually sure at all about what they were doing in the software, would you view that as casually?
Vogete@reddit
I completely agree. It is inexcusable after 6 years to not know it. I learned it in a few days or weeks max, even if it drove me crazy.
igaper@reddit
He should already have some Associate level cert at least one as senior it support in my opinion if you're working in MS ecosystem. And I wouldn't go with AZ but with either M365 or cyber security certs from Microsoft. Those will be both relevant and needed skills
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
Which ones would you recommend specifically?
Thanks!
igaper@reddit
Alright, so first of all you can browse all certifications here: Browse Credentials | Microsoft Learn
I would go for:
M365: Microsoft 365 Certified: Administrator Expert - Certifications | Microsoft Learn
Cybersec: Microsoft Certified: Cybersecurity Architect Expert - Certifications | Microsoft Learn
Those are expert certs, and there you can find out which other certs are required to go for those ones.
Realistically I'd say he should get halfway though for promotion, with a promise that he will finish the cert in certain amount of time after promotion.
As for his problem solving skills, I'd say you need to change your approach as well. I have one guy with similar issues, that constantly needs a guiding hand. What I started doing is instead of telling him how to do stuff, I started asking him questions (that I would ask myself in my head) to make him come up with an answer. Problem solving is a skill that can be taught.
Zozorak@reddit
Dude is an end user in a sysadmin role... that's terrifying.
IVRYN@reddit
Haha I had a "SR sys admin" with 10 YoE become my replacement and after pointing out that most of the system specs I've already documented.
They proceed to ask dumb questions that they should already know, the one that takes the cake was, how do I login
ConstantSpeech6038@reddit
Those issues seem like honest mistakes of a rookie, who has not learned how to troubleshoot properly yet. Because he doesn't need to when you are there. Let him swim, stop helping him. If he is really stuck, tell him what to google. He learns or he drowns.
Stonewalled9999@reddit
Missing attributes tab from AD search is absolutely annoying bug and not this guy's fault.
my 7 year old niece can grasp this concept. IT dude is totally on the hook for this one
altodor@reddit
I'm 10-15 years deep into IT here and can't grasp why I see subtly different options when I search for something versus going to manually find it in the directory. I understand that it's happening, the why makes no sense and seemingly comes down to "buggy piece of shit".
Of this whole post, this is the one thing I'll cut people slack for. The rest is underperforming and peter principle, but this specific one is software doing illogical shit.
ConstantSpeech6038@reddit
Well, I don't get this "concept" whatever it is. Probably time to change jobs. I am thinking about forestry.
ForThePantz@reddit
I’d sit down with him, and I’d give him examples of things he needs to start taking care of himself to be considered for promotion next year. See if he turns a corner. While he’s squaring that away have him update/create documentation.
TolMera@reddit
Sounds like you’re the shithouse manager.
Have you managed the guy? Trained him? Set expectations and responded when expectations were not met?
Gah damn my dude, you’re the problem.
So what should you do? I would say GTFO if you were my employee. But I guess you could go get some management training and maybe in six years you’ll be manager material.
Sab159@reddit
Have a conversation about all this with the guy ?
I agree with the certification idea. Having that as part of yearly objectives sounds normal - as long as the company is playing for voucher and training.
squidballz@reddit
Ask him to use Ai for all his questions before coming to you.
DutchDreamTeam@reddit
Sounds like he isn’t even a senior IT support specialist 🤣 He has to step up his game.
Abject_Serve_1269@reddit
Haha I'm the opposite. Govt contracting. I was moved to this role with no clear cut role.
All is semi moot so now I'm asked to get aws certs.
I really can't justify my Jr sysadmin title on my resume because all I did until a contract coworker was let go, was push via sccm updates another agency uploaded for us to push out.
Sucks when half the crap that fails early in my shift is db crap.
I still think I'm a prevent lawsuit for firing while medical limited. Lol
But this dude of yours sucks.
Chazus@reddit
I recently moved from "System Analyst II" Which is code for Tier 1 desktop support to "System Admin" Where I'm actually handling macro level licensing for clients.
I ran into an issue today where a client had purchased 3rd party Office 2019 Pro Plus from a company that no longer exists.
I had never heard of "Office Deployment Tool" in my life, and in 20 minutes learned how to use it , create the xml file, and slipstream the download to install it. One of our other techs was flabbergasted as to how I 'figured it out'
Learning how to do shit is a thing.
Pleasant_Expert_1990@reddit
My thoughts are "fire that goober" and "hire me". 20 years IT, Masters, worked for large vendors and State Government.
shtef@reddit
You need to start sending every ticket back where he hasn't done his due diligence. This is how I dealt with similar problems internally. I also don't provide the solution or waste any time until they've updated the ticket with the steps they've taken and where they're stuck and why they're escalating.
baw3000@reddit
We all have to start somewhere, but he’s not a sysadmin yet.
BROMETH3U5@reddit
Are you his manger? He needs OKRs and training. Sounds like he isn't Jr. SysAdmin material let alone Sr. IT Support. He's faking it and sadly failing upward. Stop it now with a PIP.
radishwalrus@reddit
Do u guys have a knowledgebase? I use mediawiki typically on teams I've worked on. Proper procedures can be written down so everyone knows the right way to do things and it's always handy if u forget
badlybane@reddit
Man six year in i went from intern to surpassing my boss in knowledge and then having a new boss see my potential. Year 7 I was and admin and teaching folks.
I know guys like this dude. He will always be looking for a crutch. Wants everyone to sign off and has zero confidence. If it were up to me if tech are not showing potential by end of year one. I start recommending them get exp and move on cause raises are hard to come by etc.
When dude get new role somewhere else be happy for him then bring on new guy. If the people you hire don't impress you buy day 90 send them packing. As long as you are offering competitive salalries for your role there are hungry people out there.
ohfucknotthisagain@reddit
If there were a new Jr Sys Admin role, would you hire or recommend him for it? If not, make that point.
Imagine this guy didn't exist for a minute. What tasks would you expect a new junior admin to handle independently? Think of things for Day 1 as a fresh hire, and think of things for the end of Year 1 as an experienced team member.
With institutional knowledge, he should be able to handle all of the Day 1 tasks and around half of the Year 1 tasks. Maybe more than half. That would be a suitable set of conditions for promotion.
PokeT3ch@reddit
I do love that post like this make me feel like a real life IT wizard when on the daily I feel like an idiot.
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
Glad I could help.
DJKaotica@reddit
Here's what I would do:
(adjacent to this industry but for the life of me can't think of the term for a sysadmin between jr. and sr. so I guess I'll go with ... the US school term Sophomore? I started in IT / Tech Support but quickly lateraled to Engineering)
Obviously you've already talked with / are working with the CIO so I'd bring this to him and get him to sign off on it (it's basically what he said, as you mentioned "he is open to promoting him but he needs to meet certain criteria or attain some additional skills.").
I'd probably even talk to the CIO about doing some checkpoints along the way to make sure the worker is on track for promotion ... maybe every 2 months or so? If you say 6 months to be up to speed by March 1st, that would mean you expect them to be doing the full set of duties by Sept 1st. So a checkpoint end of August, end of June, and end of April? Plus checkpoints end of Oct, Dec, and Feb to make sure they're on track and everyone is on the same page? Maybe discuss leeway into Sept if they're like 90% of the way there?
Once you and the CIO are happy, present it to him. It sounds like this person's only real motivation is to make more money (I don't blame them but it's also good to have a level of curiosity in this industry), so you will probably need to be explicit about when the checkpoints are, and the minimum timeframe you're expecting them to work at this level to get a promotion.
Bonus: if you wrote up charts for your Jr/Soph/Sr IT Support and Jr/Soph/Sr SysAdmin then you now have common expectations everyone can use for promotions within your company, plus hiring expections for each of those levels.
Source for this idea: I worked at a FAANG-adjacent company as a Software Engineer for 11 years and at some point along the way they decided to have a bit more transparency around how promotions worked. This eventually turned into a large color-coded excel chart. The rows were give or take 8 different areas of work expectations and business expectations, and no more than 5-6 bullet points (each it's own row) under each work area. The columns were the various levels/titles as you were promoted from being a new hire all the way up to the highest rank. Each cell was shaded with intensity based on expectations:
This really helped make sure everyone was on the same page when talking about promotions and where everyone else was at, and made it clear to the more junior employees what was expected of them to get a promotion.
AmbitiousAd7138@reddit
he sounds like a two face. nice on one end and just pulling dirty tricks to get you to do his job. I'd distance myself from him. if his job can be done remotely I'd be up to take it :D
dlongwing@reddit
Making certs a requirement is kicking the can down the road. You'll have to be ready if he actually gets those certs (unlikely, but people surprise you). Tell him "no" at that point, and he'll either quit or possibly even sue (maybe both). The certs also cause an issue if you want to hire into the role rather than promote him. He'll be wondering what certs the new guy has.
He's been working with you for 6 years. He's comfortable and has no reason to believe he's going to get fired. He also has no reason to be ambitious or to change his behavior because, frankly, no one is putting any pressure n him to do so. From what you've described he's not only not ready for Sysadmin, he's already struggling at his current job.
It's easy to say "he's a slacker", but this is a management issue.
Cazba77@reddit
Wow, I feel great about myself after reading this. He shouldn't be made to get a cert for a promotion...he needs to be let go so you don't have to do so much of his work.
JohnnyCAPSLOCK@reddit
Are you sure he's a nice guy? Or maybe he's just a nice guy, you know?
elpollodiablox@reddit
To be fair, this is super annoying and I don't know why the tab is missing when going to the object from search results.
kyle-the-brown@reddit
Here is what I do with my team:
1st question is free, I help them find the answer, solve the problem, whatever.
From there i start asking where they looked for the answer, let's go see what you have open? Show me what you googled, why aren't you in SharePoint looking through the IT SOP's?
Basically, they learn if you're coming to me you better be able to show that the problem and solution has not previously been documented and is not reasonably searchable.
Fact is I don't like working outside of my normal hours especially when on vacation so I do all I can to document all processes, solutions, and troubleshooting steps as well as linking to related issues on the internet.
If I get a call after hours or on a weekend from my team for help on something that is documented they will be put on paper the following day, I don't have time for laziness, and there are lots of qualified people looking for work.
TrickyAlbatross2802@reddit
Sounds annoying, but it would be interesting to hear his perspective on your examples. Obviously your story is going to reflect your well embedded frustration with him, and I wonder if that might go both ways.
New hire alert - is that his responsibility? Are you pawning off work? Does he have access to do all steps himself? I have no idea.
Print driver - you just set it up, asking you seems appropriate. If the print server was messed up and he was giving them workarounds without asking or giving you feedback, that'd be frustrating as well.
ADUC missing "attributes" tab I've had plenty of techs ask about before, and my immediate response is to teach them how to enable the "Advanced" view, not to open my own ADUC and go "see, works fine for me". That example is really rubbing me the wrong way. But he prob should have googled something so easy.
He probably totally sucks and totally shouldn't be promoted, but I have mentored much worse with decent success based on those limited examples.
homelaberator@reddit
Have you told him to set up a reddit account and about this subreddit?
mousers21@reddit
you have to let people fail. if he can't perform on his own, you have been his enabler. stop it.
MailenJokerbell@reddit
Six years and he doesn't know things I already knew when I started as an intern? No way 😭
K12inVT@reddit
I’d say the peter principle is in effect here. Do your cert idea and remind him every year of the cert requirement that he will certainly start and then fade off every year before attaining it.
travelindan81@reddit
This is hard - you can give him a raise and retain the institutional knowledge, save time and money on hiring/training or he’ll go somewhere else for more money and you’ll be rolling the dice on someone new. He could use some tough love imo - give him the docs to figure shit out instead of doing it for him, make concrete goals and a timeline, etc. 6 years and not a ton of upwards movement gives me red flags, but hey, that’s me.
Good luck sir.
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
This guy complains about his salary every year (the Director has mentioned it to me), but still sticks around. It seems like he lacks the confidence to go out and find something on his own. He only got the job here because someone who used to work here referred him.
We recently hired another IT Support Specialist (thanks to his father being a friend of the owner). He’s just out of college and this is his first “real” job. He knows how to troubleshoot computers and has some coding experience, but he’s lacking experience with corporate infrastructure like AD/365. However, he’s much quicker to grasp new concepts and is definitely sharper overall. My concern is that I’m not sure how committed he is to the job long term.
CracklingRush@reddit
Curious, how much is this incumbent guy making?
Centimane@reddit
If you can hire new graduates that outperform the Sr tech sounds like they should just be replaced. Tons of new grads out there looking for jobs.
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
What's funny is the new guy has only been with us for maybe 4 months and whenever he has an issue he can't resolve, he will come over and ask me about it AND give me a list of about 4 or 5 different things he has tried.
The guy in question on the other hand will just send me screenshot over Teams if someone complaining file are missing from a shared folder, AND THAT'S IT. Won't even tell me what files are missing, when they went missing, nothing...
Centimane@reddit
Is there any problem the other techs bring to Sr tech? That only Sr tech is solving currently?
It sounds like they're underperforming, very replaceable and pushing for raises. Better to push to replace em and let them go fish in the market.
R0B0T_jones@reddit
I would take little experience with ability to quickly learn concepts, over lot of experience with difficulty grasping new (or existing it seems) concepts - any day of the week.
oldfinnn@reddit
Put them on a PIP plan and fire him and replace him with somebody better that’s more eager. These system admins who complain all the time are nothing but headaches and the best thing that could happen is replacement. At this point in my career I have absolutely no tolerance for that. It’s it’s horrible for team morale, bad for productivity and I wouldn’t think twice before kicking him to the curb. Coming from a disgruntled IT manager who had enough.
travelindan81@reddit
I see where you’re coming from, and I’ve encountered many who just don’t/won’t get the fire started. Honestly, it really sounds like this person needs a wake up call.
The second situation is VERY familiar, and I saw a little poster pinned to a wall above 8 years ago that has really stuck with me (please don’t think I’m being a linkedin lunatics).
New guy is hired and has drive and a willingness to learn. A more senior member is hesitant to train him and asks his boss the same the: “What if I train him and he leaves?” The response was “What if you don’t and he stays?”
Just my $.02. Best of luck sir!
creenis_blinkum@reddit
I share your sentiment as a silo'd systems engineer at a slightly larger scale than your one guy. i feel you and wont say much to your post directly except don't promote that guy and stop doing his job for him
CracklingRush@reddit
Tech people with shitty aptitude and/or attention to detail are a terrible plague.
bucdotcom@reddit
If you're accurately explaining the situations, it sounds like he doesn't have the technical skills to merit a promotion to a position that typically requires more technical knowledge.
I would suggest 2 certs of YOUR choosing as well as a reduction in ticket escalations before he can be considered for a bump up.
Good luck.
VolunteerHypeMan@reddit
Certs are a great idea...also you should just not be available for him...start being "busy" with a user or in a meeting etc. Ask him to give you every troubleshooting step he's taking so far in writing before coming to you and I promise he'll start magically figuring stuff out. I've dealt with a few people like this before.
whatzrapz@reddit
Bruh, hes one to drop back down to service desk. Hes an idiot. I hate those leachers. I usually give them 3x the same question then lose my shit. "Im not google, dickhead!" Lol ask co-pilot (since using 365).
TechnoSwiss@reddit
I like the cert. idea, just know that if they're 6 years in and haven't picked it up, getting the cert might not help. Many, many, many years ago I was a student admin for a university IT department (ie I was a student and working part-time for the admin team). I didn't have (still don't) any certs. but at the time had been working IT for various companies for about 12 years. We hired a new full-time employee who'd just finished off his MCSE certification and he was ALWAYS showing up at my desk asking how to do simple tasks that he should have learned in the process of getting the certification. He'd occasionally would hold it over my head, like he was better than be because he had the certification, so I finally just started responding with "why are you asking me, you're the one who's certified".
Might not be the case here, might be just what they need to take that next step, but it's no guaranteed "silver bullet".
piedpipernyc@reddit
If this person is worth retention.
Create internal milestones and goals.
During the next 6 months, new hire accounts must be created x days before start date. Verify.
Create a project:
Document every server and network appliance.
If documentation exists, create/update the information using a standardized documentation template.
During the next 6 months, you must lead every IT stand up/ status meeting.
These are basic.
If they have no interest in this, then they do not have interest in the title.
PaleFollowing3763@reddit
What's the minimum to be a Jr Sys Admin?
bitanalyst@reddit
I'd be looking to replace this guy instead of promoting him.
sumZy@reddit
creating AD accounts manually in 2025?
AnAnxiousCyclist@reddit
If you want him to do a cert, don’t make it Az900. That’s the type of cert you have sales staff take, it should be extremely easy for someone with multiple years of technical experience.
Greedy_Ad5722@reddit
Helpdesk tier2 here… I have been working as helpdesk for almost 2 year now… these are my tasks…
With that said…. If you guys are looking to hire a jr.sysadmin…. I’d be down xD
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
Pretty solid for only two years @ Helpdesk.
HoosierLarry@reddit
Sounds like he’s management material. 😂
Classic-Procedure757@reddit
A lack of intellectual curiosity is a showstopper. If he isn’t learning on his own, find someone who will. Don’t rely on paid training because we all know the book isn’t omniscient.
Miamichris127@reddit
This is why you’re an individual contributor and not a leader. Upskill him, you’ll raise the bar for yourself.
redkelpie01@reddit
If he's in that type of role and hasn't taken the time to sort out tasks like these, why hasn't he made his own set of notes for stuff to help him jog his memory? Could be OneNote, Word doc, whatever. Really sounds like a management issue.
Hefty-Possibility625@reddit
I think some folks work well in the position they are in and as they move up to roles with more responsibilities they lack some of the skills that are required for success. It sounds like this person is comfortable in a role where he isn't responsible. Tickets come in, he follows a process, and doesn't have to make too many decisions.
I would actually make it clear that this is not just a matter of "do more of what you are doing" shift, it's a whole different job. Make sure that he is clear on what that means. It will mean that he will need to learn a new set of skills, take ownership of developing and maintaining processes, and other things that he might not be familiar with.
I've seen this happen across many positions where someone goes from Tier 1 to 3 in their current role and think, "The next step is to move in this direction." without realizing that the path they've chosen is significantly different than the one they were currently on.
All that being said, if it's a junior role, it's likely that he will be expected to grow certain skills in the first 6 months (probation), but there should be clear metrics for what that means and work should be assigned to him to practise and build those skills.
Zamboni4201@reddit
Dude sounds like a swivel chair. Possibly lazy. But he might be swamped too, doing the dump and run to get a particularly painful user some type of solution.
I suspect though, the dump and run, lack of investigation skills, possibly unwilling to learn, he’s just putting in his 40 hours a week.
I’d sit down with him. Ask for a list of major accomplishments by year, with clear explanations of how these events helped him grow and show leadership skills, an ability to learn (on his own) and handle projects without much oversight.
Trickshot1322@reddit
It's pretty simple. Stop holding his hand. You're enabling him.
The things you have noted above are either things he should have figured out himself through google/ai, or things he doesn't want to do due to laziness/incompetence/etc.
New hire alerts - "I've shown you how to do these, you'll be completing them from now on."
To find an email - "Have you searched the subject line in your email account? I'm not going to be happy if I have to remote on and I find it in the first search."
Attributes tab missing - "What steps have you tried to find out why it isn't there?", "Have you googled, missing attributes tab when searching for user in AD?" And if youre feeling snarky "Because there is an answer in the first Microsoft support forum post."
Page size button - "What steps have you taken? Can you print a test page?"
Security Group issue - "How long ago did you make the change?", "It can take up to 30 minutes for replication in our environment."
These are ALL things a 'Senior IT Support Specialist' should have been able to figure out on their own. And they likely could've, but you've made it so it's easier and faster for them to go straight to you, so why would they bother figuring it out for themselves?
Unless it is a issue that you should genuinley be handling, do not take over, send them away to research and take another run at it, once they have had a genuine go, help them by giving a hint, instruction, or answer. Don't do it for them.
It's not rude to ask someone what steps they've tried first. It's not rude to ask "Have you googled this yet?" If they clearly haven't.
Hoggs@reddit
Words that my boss once told me, that have stuck with me forever:
"Don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions."
When he comes to you, keep repeating this to him, and refuse to help if he doesn't already have some ideas himself. Maybe it will start to sink in.
Bogus1989@reddit
Stop doing things for him. enabling.
NorthernVenomFang@reddit
For me that would be a flat out "no" on promoting him; if I have to spend that much time on things answering 1st year questions to someone that has 6 years of experience, I would be considering firing them not promoting them.
Promoting them would just mean more mess for me to clean up later, essentially doubling my work.
netcat_999@reddit
This would drive me absolutely crazy. I would not promote. Good on you for documenting all of these issues.
kaiser_detroit@reddit
You are in SoCal are you? This sounds like a former coworker who I last worked with 6 years ago. 🤣
ProtectionSubject615@reddit
Just no….
Synstitute@reddit
I would expect the Comptia trifecta as the baseline. Certainly not the az900. Which I recently took and it’s trash easy, got like 40 questions cause I guess I answered everything right.
HerfDog58@reddit
You should have asked him if he'd done a repadmin /syncall on the DC after he added the end user to the security group. In writing. When he writes back "I don't know what that means" you say "I'll take care of it," BCC the CIO, then add that to a mail folder of "Why Jagoff Bunblenutz shouldn't be promoted to Junior Sysadmin."
Make yourself a delegate of his mailbox and set a rule that forwards a copy of every new hire alert from him to the CIO with a message "I don't know how to do this" appended.
Reply to the new hire alerts he sends with "Please refer to the documentation I've provided on 4 separate occasions" and BCC the CIO.
Give it about a month then ask the CIO "Is that the kind of criteria and skill he needs...?"
Mr-RS182@reddit
“ 3/27 – Sent me a screenshot showing the ‘Attributes’ tab missing from end user's account. The tab was missing because he had done a search for her account in AD. When I navigated to the OU where the user was located and checked the properties, the 'Attributes' tab was present.”
This one really annoys me to this day that it doesn’t show it when in a search.
SoyBoy_64@reddit
Hire someone else and let him go, you can un-train someone for a lack of motivation.
Geminii27@reddit
Lay out all the issues and tell him that if he can meet them consistently for six months, you'll be comfortable recommending the promotion.
Sibass23@reddit
I'm sick of people just expecting promotions or hand outs from senior colleagues rather than work hard. I've seen this level of bullshit before and I feel your pain..
WolfetoneRebel@reddit
How about no. He doesn’t have the analytical skills for even his current role.
Churn@reddit
OP, YOU are stopping him from learning. By resolving everything for him you enable him to not learn on his own.
My suggestion is to promote him to the Jr SysAdmin role with the understanding that this position has to resolve issues without escalating them to the Sr SysAdmin or risk being demoted or even fired if a lower position is not available. This should get them to either become self reliant or find the door.
bobs143@reddit
This person is the senior? How bad are the people underneath him? Honestly. Certs just show you can pass a test.
I have known people who had certs, and when stuff goes down they panic and forget everything they just studied for.
Start settings milestones and levels for this person to achieve to get promoted. Give them projects they must complete, and review solved tickets.
Teach staff how to solve their own problems. Make sure they take notes when you show them something.. Give them just enough where they need to actually fill in the blanks through Google, or Chat GPT.
shunny14@reddit
there’s a trait in IT I prefer to see in people: figuring it out yourself. You can do almost anything in IT with Google (and copilot) these days. He doesn’t sound like that kind of person.
But are you teaching him to fish or handing him the fish? If he really wants to learn you might need to go Socratic method on him.
Garble7@reddit
Sounds like you need a role guide that describes what you need to be able to do for that role.
At my company a document has to be created that talks about how you show you meet the role guide bar, and what you have been doing to work at the next level.
it even adds a section for the best reasons not to promote to the next level.
You need something concrete
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
Yes correct, I was told they are drafting up something for him over the next week or so.
ExtraBacon-6211982@reddit
I understand your pain. I usually create "how-to documents," KBs, or SOPs. I review them two or three times with them before sending the document. I have done this for the most minor tasks before. Always do what you can to elevate the people around you, which you are doing; the documentation will help them and set a good practice.
Darkhexical@reddit
No no you're doing it wrong. Have the lackees make the how to documents as a thought experiment and you check over it. That way you don't have to write them and they understand them.
ExtraBacon-6211982@reddit
Disagree, leaders, lead. Set the example, and guide them
stesha83@reddit
If you’d spent half as much time automating some of this as you’ve spent exhaustively detailing his minor failings you’d probably be in a better place.
Double_Confection340@reddit (OP)
Dude, I've told him at least 3 times that AD replication takes time. It takes him at minimum 3 times of telling him stuff before it finally sticks. Even then, all he knows is that it takes time to replicate. He does not know what is actually going on behind the scenes with the replication.
It's not due to a lack of training that he has received, it's more like he just doesn't have the IQ to figure stuff out on his own without help. The whole AD thing is just one example but I have trained him on how to do numerous other things with VMWare, VPN clients, folder permissions, etc...nothing sticks unless it's done in repetition and even then all he cares about is the end result and not knowing how it all works.
Someone in this thread said it best earlier. He is good at memorizing data but not good(or either doesn't care) about actually understanding what is going on under the hood when he's changing things, which makes it impossible for him to troubleshoot things on his own.
Although I do take responsibility for not letting him sink every now and then. That will change for sure.
Thanks for the recommendation on MS900, that may be a better option for him.
SmallClassroom9042@reddit
Everyone expects everyone to just no what they want, they don't want to train or mentor, OP should give that try. Guy is obviously conditioned to always need the approval of authority, help him out a bit, teach him how to become confident.
ToFat4Fun@reddit
AZ-900, MS-900 and maybe MS-102 within a year of being promoted sounds reasonable to me.
It seems he lacks some basic troubleshooting skills and problem solving mindset. He always turns to you to get a quick fix/shortcut, instead of learning and debugging himself. Red flag.
Darkhexical@reddit
While these are easy certs I personally try to stick goals to 2 certs a year. Having people just go after certs all day isn't a great use of skilled labour imo.
rayskicksnthings@reddit
He can’t do stuff someone as a support specialist should be able to do and wants a promo? Thats a no from me dawg
Sdubbya2@reddit
I feel ya man, drives me crazy when people ask me things acting like I'm their encyclopedia of knowledge. Makes me want to say "Bro I've never seen this issue either, I'm literally researching it after you told me and managed to figure it out in 5-10 minutes....really isn't any reason why you shouldn't be able to do that in the 30-40 you were on this issue." - With some of them I stopped giving them the answers and instead opted to give them clues to help them learn the troubleshooting process themselves, still very hit or miss......
Agent_Buckshot@reddit
Sounds like you're already doing his job for him which should've stopped years ago
renegaderelish@reddit
Personally, I'm a fan of learning the hard way. It feels like folks will either quickly adapt (because they had the chops and just didn't know it), quickly screw up and learn (because they give a shit), or quickly fuck up and ask for "clean up" - not help - (because they rely on higher tier support).
Learning on the job can be hard in certain circumstances. I've learned that it's best to determine if someone has the ability to learn AND the desire. Only one of those is not enough. You need both. It's hard getting rid of someone that does one well but not the other. But it might be necessary.
renegaderelish@reddit
Personally, I'm a fan of learning the hard way. It feels like folks will either quickly adapt (because they had the chops and just didn't know it), quickly screw up and learn (because they give a shit), or quickly fuck up and ask for "clean up" - not help - (because they rely on higher tier support).
Learning on the job can be hard in certain circumstances. I've learned that it's best to determine if someone has the ability to learn AND the desire. Only one of those is not enough. You need both. It's hard getting rid of someone that does one well but not the other. But it might be necessary.
LeoRydenKT@reddit
Wow.
Professional_Chart68@reddit
I don't get why he needs to set up fortigates or esxs hosts by himself on old pcs. This shit is done together adding hosts in test or production clusters, it's the only way to learn what to do in real world, certs are mostly useless. Firewall he can get read-only and logs access to troubleshoot, rules writing only with senior sysadmin. This is the way to learn stuff.
Regarding the constant questions - document stuff. Asks questions - pretend busy, or point to wiki, he either starts thinking, or makes mistakes, that will get him fired. Either way problem solved
Darkhexical@reddit
I'd have him rewrite the rules you have setup and then have him explain what they do to you in a report.
Stonewalled9999@reddit
my test lab is two i7 PCS with 2TB NVME and 64GB RAM
in theory my lab is more performant than prod here...
ms6615@reddit
I currently have not one, but TWO of these on my team. It is endlessly exhausting. I can’t do my job as an admin because the IT director is too busy handholding the desktop support techs, or worse just straight up doing user support for them…so he never has time to meet with me to discuss policies or processes. I put my foot down a while back and said I wasn’t going to continue doing their job for them, but I thought the director would tell them to improve or fire them. Guess not.
R0B0T_jones@reddit
How do you respond to his questions? If you are polite and tell him the answers, he might just continue to think that what he’s doing is fine, and it’s your role to answer these things for him.
Sometimes I think you need to point out the stupidity, not to be an asshole, but for them to realise they should know this, feel a bit stupid for asking and learn from it. Sometimes there’s ways of doing this without coming across too mean..
I know everyone is different and workplaces will affect how you can and can’t speak to each other, I dunno maybe I’m just an asshole.
Barking_Mad90@reddit
Take leave for a month to give him opportunity to step up
Document in OneNote and tickets and then tell him to refer back to them
Unfortunately you gotta be the one to push back and say I’ll get back to you tomorrow
Give him objectives Specific certs Give him a quota for escalation per month Maybe throw a small project his way to manage
Difficultopin@reddit
Fire him
LetzGetz@reddit
Sys admin for a retirement community here (fell ass backwards into it) but I didn't need to read much to say you shouldn't do it lol. Stopped at not creating new users.
If the dude isn't fiendishly taking initiative to learn and then improve operations he just isn't right for a sysadmin.
To me, sysadmins need to have the mentality of Sisyphus. Keep pushing with the same vigor even though it'll all probably roll back down and crush you. But next time might it might work out 🙂↔️
Infninfn@reddit
Service desk is the last place you want your junior admins to come from. Especially if they’ve spent years and years there. Blanket statement, sure, but they haven’t learned anything other than how to cope and google and not use their heads whatsoever. Best to get a fresh grad as junior admin and teach them the ropes.
BrentNewland@reddit
I have been in tech support for 15 years. At my last job I was promoted to Senior Tech Support Specialist. Our sysadmins (who were good at their job) regularly came to me for assistance troubleshooting server and systems issues. I ended up taking over almost all management of our print servers, ticketing system server, Entra, InTune, EDR/AV, Exchange Online, SharePoint, the Cisco phone and voicemail systems, and WordPress. I assisted in management of AD, GPO, MSSQL, DNS, DHCP, Exchange On-Prem, Teams, and a whole bunch of other systems.
The majority of what SysAdmins do can be figured out by Googling and RTFM.
al2cane@reddit
You need to consider letting him just fail. Sinking vs swimming -or even learning to tread water- is the difference between IT Support and System Admin on that ladder.
mistercartmenes@reddit
I would have recommended he stay where he’s at. Some people get into IT and just don’t have the skills to go beyond a certain level. Despite him working hard it sounds like he’s in over his head.
Taavi179@reddit
I'd say they rather lack the ambition
caa_admin@reddit
How has he lasted this long? He the boss's kid or has dirt on the boss?
DickStripper@reddit
Either we work for a business or a charity.
Unfortunately, many of us tolerate charity hires.
Our Junior sys admins would have no idea how to explain what a subnet mask is.
They do not know how to use PowerShell.
They don’t know what ping -a is.
We tolerate too many charity hires.
Many people have jobs that don’t deserve them.
I’m not talking about DEI.
I’m talking about too many people in IT that do not deserve it.
There is too many qualified people go accept charity hires and coworkers.
Galileominotaurlazer@reddit
My boss passed the fundamentals and then asks me if we use Exchange Online being cloud only.
dtdubbydubz@reddit
Part of the job of being a Sysadmin is self research. Sure as a Jr we may still need help from senior sysadmins but we need due diligence to do our own research first. If you're his sole research source, mgmt shouldn't let him move up till he can prove he can do a bit of research on his own first.
CoCoNUT_Cooper@reddit
I have seen this a lot. After 1 year you need to reevaluate....how could he be there for 6?
Certifications are nice. However the real world is not multiple choice.
People like this burn out the good employees since he can't be self sufficient. It's like doing double work.
Bless you for staying positive and trying to help. At the end of the day the better he gets, the easier your life.
unprovoked33@reddit
I’d have him set real goals to be accomplished before promotion, specifically ones related to using you as a crutch. Something like “double_confection340 will send back all tickets and is not to be used as an escalation point unless they deem it necessary for 30 days.” This could be a real source of growth.
I don’t really love the certifications route, they’re too disconnected from the work, and some people are unnaturally good or bad at getting certs.
four_reeds@reddit
Are there others in this person's current team that would do a better job? If so, and if there is a need for a jr admin, create an internal job opportunity. Define the position and requirements, etc, whatever your HR folks require.
Let this person apply. Quietly encourage the others to apply. Do the interviews, test questions, etc then pick the best person for the role.
It's all open and above board. The list of position requirements lets your person know what they have to prove.
doglar_666@reddit
OP, I think the cert should be mandatory. However, instead of a promotion, it should be treated as a new role, with a 6 month probation period. Make it clear he'll be expected to perform adequately on own initiative within 3 months + attain the cert. 6 months in, he should not be needing to ask you much at all. At 6 months you Pass/Fail/PIP. Assuming a Pass, within 12 months, he should be leading some of the work. Pass/PIP. The contract needs strict qualifiers for what adequate looks like, so it isn't arbitrary. Expectations should be reasonable. He just needs to understand that passing probation is not guaranteed, he will be expected to take the role seriously and that, should he fall short, his employment will be on the line. It might not be such an attractive position under those conditions. I wouldn't bother with shadowing/trial runs, as he sounds like the type that will equate it as adequate enough to qualify for promotion, no matter his performance. Just my opinion.
kissmyash933@reddit
Sounds like this guy doesn’t have the curious mind and “fuck around with it until you make it work” qualities that are necessary for the job.
gwatt21@reddit
Having guidance here and there is ok for more difficult issues but having to ask about basic stuff, it’s just not sticking and he has had plenty of time, especially for things he does on the regular.
Less_Traffic2091@reddit
OMG. Zzzzzzzz. Yes...yes...tell the CIO to make it conditional. My gosh. You're as bad as he is. Snore. ;) Seriously, though. I.T. is boring. Give the kid a break. Turn your 'notes' into training opportunities. Set up some goals and monitor his progress. Set up a 'pathway' for techs in your organization they most complete to keep their job and tie that to the review process if those goals ARE actually important for supporting the organization. Become a CIO, and quit relying so much on the CIO.
changework@reddit
This “user” is a cancer to your department. If he were in any other position at the company not IT related he’d be your worst shadow IT nightmare and have to be disciplined for screwing things up he’s not authorized to change.
Everything you described reeks of laziness and poor understanding without accountability. STOP helping him. Let him play with the rope he has currently and he’ll hang himself with it if you aren’t rescuing him all the time.
“I’m busy and have my own work to do.”
If he reports to you, write him up. If he doesn’t report to you, he’s not your responsibility. If you must get involved, schedule something with HR and tell them that he’s coming to you to finish his work product and you’re suffering for it. Don’t disparage him, but let them know that what he comes to you for should already be in his skill set to handle on his own and fixing his mistakes is distracting you from your own work.
MyPhotographyReddit@reddit
They won't change. If all you say is true they are not interested in having a purpose, only dollar.
TruurigeSchwiizer@reddit
This is the average IT worker today. I try to hire people since 5 years and can only find people like you described. So it is the standard and everything only slightly abow is very exceptional. I dont knoe how this shit should go on, for my side its clear to drop clients ond do less because there is nobody who can do the work.
Different-Hyena-8724@reddit
Honestly, IT lost the leverage 20 years ago to be trying to dictate conditions of their crappy 2-3% raises. This is why theres the 2 years and leave for 20% thing. Anyone worth a damn doesn't stay.
Stonewalled9999@reddit
you're getting raises?
Different-Hyena-8724@reddit
Yea. Remote at a fortune 50. Sorta a niche Sr role. very specific SDN stuff. But I got about $30k in stock last year that vest $10k/year and 3% this year along with about $20k in bonuses. I think my total comp this year ended up right around $180k USD.
Stonewalled9999@reddit
you hiring?
kerrwashere@reddit
Tbh i agree with the minor mistakes but a junior sys admin would make mistakes as they are junior. Create a structure for the person to get a certification and the role. Address the small mistakes and why would a support specialist need fortigates?
lurkerburzerker@reddit
Usually, there are standards that need met to acquire higher levels of privilege such as certifications. Sounds like this guy could use A+ and some MCP training. Everything you describe is helpdesk 101 that I would expect anyone to know in their first 12 months.
SM_DEV@reddit
It sounds as if the guy WANTS a promotion and the pay raise that comes with it, but lacks the ambition to put in the extra work to attain it.
If I were management, I’d lay out a training path for him, with milestones and perhaps promotions and or pay raises coinciding with those milestones.
He would get what he wants, based upon how ambitious he is… and the company benefits from a more robust staff member.
Good luck!
unseenspecter@reddit
There is a misconception with people that has existed for a long time. People tend to think the amount of work/time you put into something should come with certain rewards. It's just not true, nor should it be true. You can spend a week trying to push a full cement truck up a hill. Lots of effort. Lots of time. Zero value. Even if you use some ingenuity to get the truck up the hill by pushing, that still doesn't provide value if the destination was actually down the hill.
That's all true in IT as well, especially the ingenuity part. Putting a ton of time, effort, and creativity into a problem doesn't provide any value if it doesn't actually solve the problem or at least move the needle in the right direction. Sounds like your employee not only needs to learn to put in actual effort, but that effort needs to actually be directed at something valuable.
TR_Idealist@reddit
Man I wish I had you as a mentor.
hbg2601@reddit
My company has promoted a guy up through the ranks to where he's now a Sys Admin Intermediate. Only reason is because they don't want to fire him. Has no clue how even the most simple things work and has been here going on 20 years. He's now maxed out in his position so I'm anxiously waiting to see how his managers get around it.
Content-Cheetah-1671@reddit
I’ve worked with these kind of people… They’re not technical, but they’re damn good at charming people.
genderless_sox@reddit
Certs don't help people troubleshoot. Yes he should get certs. But make a check list of common things he needs to do think about before contacting you. If he can do that for a year. Maybe promote him. But a title change isn't going to help him troubleshoot things or take on more responsibility
Significant_Oil3089@reddit
He should automate this user creation / onboarding process. I bet that would get him the promotion and get him out of your hair for all of these things that can be scripted out.
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
Ok, they go get a cert but appear to have learned nothing... so they get promoted?
What does the cert specifically do for you?
You need a person to change how they logic and thats the issue with IT, some people just never get the mindset right.
A cert won't change any of that other than obligating the company to promote someone who is shit at their job.
How is that good?
cbtboss@reddit
More so proving that the person can actually apply themselves. Given that this person has a track record of not doing so, this is a gamble that if you give them an objective, that they can't rise to and complete that's an easy thing to point to as "this is why you aren't promoted yet."
I wouldn't call it a good idea either per se, but it is an easier way to point them to hopefully self realize they are the problem than outright telling them where their shortcomings are right now. Easier isn't always better when it comes to managing people.
uprightanimal@reddit
You lost me at "He asked me to access his machine via ZOHO to search for..."
...an EMAIL??
I wouldn't do that for an end user, let alone a Senior Support Specialist.
mauro_oruam@reddit
Sounds like he is just not self reliant or confident in his own skills.
He needs to work on self reliance and troubleshooting/ investigating skills.
Suaveman01@reddit
Dude sounds hopeless, I’d remove the Senior from his title as he clearly hasn’t even mastered 1st support yet
mudpupper@reddit
Some people can think on their feet and other cannot. This is a skill that most just can't obtain.
Hard pass.
Fancy_Passion1314@reddit
Is there a course out there that provides a certificate that will educate them on looking in there deleted folder of their email for lost emails, if there is maybe get them to do the course that will also teach them to check the spam folder just to pre-empt the next problem they have with their emails not being found 🤔
If there isn’t my 13 year old can show them, for a fee…. (No certificate though)
Plenty-Piccolo-4196@reddit
This guy should stay a Jr lmao
OutsidePerson5@reddit
Yeesh, six years in and he still doesn't really know his way around the AD Users and Computers interface? Or even how to search his own damn email and the troubleshooting steps for missing email?
Giving him a raise and a new title won't make him any more useful, he seems to have risen to the level of performance you can expect of him which seems somewhere between T1 and maybe T2 if we're generous.
Workadis@reddit
Backfill and let him go
ClarenceWhorley617@reddit
6 years in that role and asking questions like THAT? I'd accept it if they were 6 months in, but 6 years? Sys Admin (at any level, he is not!)
Kahless_2K@reddit
Sounds like he should be on a PIP
Jazzlike-Vacation230@reddit
There's 2 sides to this. On one hand I get it, ya gotta show the dedication and work ethic of the level you want to then be able to work in it.
On the other hand here we go again. This is why IT has retention issues, there's opportunities to help your juniors grow, etc. but its met with annoyance.
I mean how do we expect things to grow and change if the whole concept of apprenticing is scoffed at?
ncc74656m@reddit
These are things that he should know though. Minimum with two years exp, let alone six.
ncc74656m@reddit
The first two alone are enough that I would probably have to have a sit down with him and explain that he has a lot of improvement to do before he could be eligible for that position. You could divide all these things into "areas of improvement," etc. Thing is, if he's not aware of these issues as being tremendous roadblocks, then unfortunately he really can't be promoted. I know you'll end up losing him, but he doesn't sound like a ton of loss, either.
Really, these are very junior issues IMO, and I don't mean sysadmin. 6 years into his career at least and he doesn't know this stuff? I forgive a stupid question every now and then - I have them myself because my brain just blanks sometimes.
I hate to give mean advice, but you need a way to toss him if he doesn't work out. Here's what I'd do if your company rules allow for it:
DariusWolfe@reddit
A certification will not solve the problem this guy has. It's not really lack of knowledge (though that plays a part) as much as a lack of confidence and a lack of the right mental attitude.
He needs to learn that being a sysad is 90% about approach and only 10% knowledge. You need to be able to approach a problem with zero knowledge, and then gain that knowledge while you're working on the problem, with only some of that knowledge gain coming from asking other people how to do things. I will spend an hour on a new problem before asking for help (unless it's a critical work stoppage; in that case, speed is more important than my ability to gain knowledge) and by the end of it, I may have duplicated work that other people already knew how to do, but I'll also understand that work in a way I never would have if I'd just asked someone else.
Akayou90@reddit
When i switched for from 1st line servicedesk to engineering i first attaned my MCSA as proof that i knew what I was doing. Nonetheless i was not as “dumb” as your colleague
Helpjuice@reddit
Sounds like they are not a fit for the job of SysAdmin. This is like someone that is a software engineering wanting to become a security engineer. Not going to happen if they don't have a strong foundation of security. Once they train themselves up and have a good base foundation maybe they would be ok for a junior role, but not being able to solve problems in the field they want to go into that are easy level problems would be a hard no and best for the company to reject it at all costs until they have a competent baseline of being a SysAdmin.
the_syco@reddit
Stop assisting him. See how he manages on his own. It sounds like on paper he gets results, but from what you say he gets the results because you tell him the answers.
If he gets the promotion, you'll be training his replacement as well as either doing his job for him or fixing his screwups.
Tbh, tell if he gets the Azure certs before next year, you'll be more open to him getting the upgrade, whilst you let him swim by himself.
1996Primera@reddit
No on your topic...
But why in 2025 are you having humans create or disable user accounts?
This should be a 100% automated it function, if pure 365 it's super easy...with onprem AD still "easy" but requires a few more steps
Apprehensive_Bat_980@reddit
Whilst reading your post was thinking of suggesting a cert, as you’ve put, he’ll have to read and understand.
theborgman1977@reddit
To be honest I specialize in a couple things. I purposely look for sysadmin jobs that do not have leadership responsibilities. It ends up being I transition into leadership roles anyways. I land a tier 2 job, I am considered a leader and quote unquote tier 2.5. Training new techs until my recent job. I had an retail IT company that wanted to transition to MSP. I took the lead letting my boss do his thing. I was laid off in Jan, and brought back in March to lead the whole thing.
AnnualLength3947@reddit
This isn't even senior IT support level stuff lmao. Like level 1 or maybe level 2 stuff he should know less than a year in. He should be happy to have a senior title albeit support in this economy.
N0nprofitpuma_@reddit
I'd say stop helping him with things. If he gets promoted, now he'll just count on you for even more things and have more access to do more damage. If he threatens to leave, so be it. Good luck to him in this market lol.
goviel@reddit
Do a career goal plan.
Add requirements
And do peer ticket reviews. Work out how the problem was fixed and how it can be improved.
Maybe something will stick and they can level up.
uptimefordays@reddit
Based on what you’re telling me he’s not ready and doesn’t seem super interested in improving. However, your environment appears excessively reliant on manual workflows—why are you hand rolling user accounts or modifying user attributes?
shiranugahotoke@reddit
Are you his boss? Will you be his boss if he is promoted? You need to stop covering for this person. YOU are creating the problem here by allowing him to be reliant on you. Every time you step in and fix a problem for this person you are making them look good as a candidate. You need to make it clear that someone who wants to have that job role needs to be able to figure it out, and leave it at that. Document every communication in the ticketing system, and fix the problem if it is escalated you properly. If you want this person to succeed you have to give them room to grow or fail.
asoge@reddit
First of all, it's not a promotion, he's actually looking for a transfer - those are two different positions with different skill sets. Skill sets that you're seeing he lacks, based on what you have related so far. In fact, i would even argue that he's also lacking in the current role he's supposed to have been promoted in.
I manage L1 and L2 service desk roles and desk side. While a lot of work had shifted left from sysadmin work towards my service desk teams, it's mostly because of automation tools that made it possible, which, were created by the sysadmins (engineers and architects).
hurlcarl@reddit
Doesn't sound like this person deserves a promotion, the lack of troubleshooting is troubling. If you don't want to lose this person or whatever, yeah I'd make a condition something that isn't a cake walk to show they have certain skills. He mostly sounds like a middle man between you and the end users, adding to your workload.
CollegeFootballGood@reddit
You are better than some but we will not grant you the title of sys admin
QPC414@reddit
Sounds like you, or more your CIO has bigger issues to resolve with this person. I would be contemplating this person's short and long term prospects in his current position or with the company of this is consistent behavior with no progress.