Why is Jewish immigration not talked about as often when it comes to our history?

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Porlarta@reddit

Im not certain whatbyou are talking about. In my experience both with popular media and education its very commonly spoken about, particular with regard to stories set in New York.

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Aggressive-Emu5358@reddit

I learned about it equally with all the others.

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Sunny_Hill_1@reddit

WDYM? There is a huge exposition in Ellis island museum about Jewish immigrants.

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Delicious_Oil9902@reddit

Those are baked into a lot of the groups you mentioned. Lots of German, Polish, Eastern European immigrants were Jewish

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Maybe it's because I am Jewish but it feels not that ignored to me? I remember learning about the immigration of Jews to the US from Eastern Europe in school and thinking "that's my great-grandparents!".

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-Moose_Soup-@reddit

I think it's just that Jewish populations in the US are suuuuper concentrated in a couple of geographic areas and if you grew up outside of those couple of areas you might have spent most of your early life having no exposure to Jewish people or culture outside of history books and media.

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BaseballNo916@reddit

I mean I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio, not NYC or anything, and I knew several Jewish people growing up. I feel like you would have to live in a pretty small town to not know any Jews.

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Standard-Nebula1204@reddit

Cincinnati is one of those specific concentrations with lots of Jews. Not like NYC, Miami, or LA, but I’d bet it’s fourth in terms of cities (although I’ve done zero research)

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dan_blather@reddit

Cleveland, absolutely - about 80,000, mostly in the East Side suburbs in the area spanning Cleveland Heights to Pepper Pike. There's a growing number in Solon, and the forgotten Jews (with one small synagogue) west of the Cuyahoga.

Detroit and St. Louis also have very large Jewish communities.

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nickrweiner@reddit

And Akron. Akron is about 4% Jewish.

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AliMcGraw@reddit

Chicago feels very rudely ignored!

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firerosearien@reddit

Cincinnati had/has a pretty significant Jewish population. Many parts of rural America, not so much

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SeriousCow1999@reddit

Most Americans don't love in rural America.

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codenameajax67@reddit

Most Americans do.

Just because something is classified as "Urban" doesn't mean it isn't rural.

I technically live in an urban area, it's a town of 200 people next to a city of 5,000 people, an hour away from the big city of 30,000 people.

Each of those is classified as Urban. But when you talk about rural America they are included.

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SeriousCow1999@reddit

Okay, have it your way. You live in rural America.

Meanwhile, 80% of the country does not. I am using the US Census info and not your own anecdotal experience. You can self-identify as a rural resident if that seems more authentic to you.

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sgtm7@reddit

Based on his description, I would definitely consider him rural.

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codenameajax67@reddit

Went right over your head huh?

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SeriousCow1999@reddit

No, I understand you, no worries. You are seen, rural person!

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andrew2018022@reddit

Shoutout Kevin Youkiliis

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mwmandorla@reddit

Yoooouuuuuk

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cruzweb@reddit

I grew up in Metro Detroit, part of the massive urban sprawl and, I can think of one single jewish person I met as a child, some eclectic gay man who was a friend of an aunt. I didn't go to school with any, and I don't think any lived in my neighborhood. Almost all jewish people in my area would have been in the next county over. Nearly everyone was either catholic or protestant (even the arab population on my side of the metro was a lot of Chaldeans more so than muslims), with a few Mormons and Jehovas Witnesses thrown in.

So no, I don't think you would need to live in a small town to not really encounter any jewish folks. Settlement patterns and how they relate to the rest of how we live our lives is a little more nuanced than that.

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

Indianapolis is the same way. Surprisingly large Jewish population and not what you generally think of when you think of the Midwest.

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SeaAge2696@reddit

Why wouldn't people think of Indianapolis when they thought of the Midwest? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment.

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

No as in you don’t generally think of Indianapolis and think “oh I bet they have a lot of synagogues.”

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Pitiful_Meringue_57@reddit

cincinnati is legit city, that’s where we tend to be. If u look at rural parts of the country those r areas where ppl have never met a jew before.

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-Moose_Soup-@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Cincinnati https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_metropolitan_area

Based on some really quick research Cincinnati what is considered a relatively high Jewish population outside of the eastern seaboard and yet there are only like 30,000 in the entire metropolitan area which has a population of 2.3 million people. Even in a city like that it would not be weird to grow up there and not meet 1.3% of the population.

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Glass-Painter@reddit

Jews tend to live in cities or in bordering suburbs. Not exurbs, not the country, definitely not northern Kentucky. Big difference between greater Cinci area’s 2.3M people and the 300k of the city itself.

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-Moose_Soup-@reddit

That makes sense. That would mean that if the vast majority of Jewish people in Cincinnati live in e city proper, then Cincinnati is probably one of the most Jewish cities in the country. In that case, if the person I was responding to grew up in the urban core then it wouldn't really surprise me that he grew up knowing some Jewish people since they would have made up almost 1/10 people.

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MyUsername2459@reddit

Cincinnati has a relatively large Jewish population because it's basically the heart of modern Reform Judaism.

Literally every Jewish person I've known in person in my life in Kentucky has only been in the area because of the Reform population in Cincinnati. It's literally only three people, but all of them only lived in the area because of proximity to Cincinnati.

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ATLien_3000@reddit

Cincinnati is home to one of the three campuses of the main reform Jewish seminary in the US (Hebrew Union College).

The others are in New York and LA (and they have a campus in Jerusalem).

Cincinnati has a fairly sizeable Jewish population by percentage compared to most of the US (metro area is just short of 3%).

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BurritoDespot@reddit

Sorta, but it’s more than a couple

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Highway49@reddit

Exactly! Armenians are similar. There are a good number of them in Southern California, but I never met one while living in Minnesota.

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tn00bz@reddit

I teach world history, so it's not necessarily in the American context, but we absolutely talk about the massive amount of Jewish emmigration after ww2.

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AdPsychological790@reddit

Just WW2? There was huge Jewish immigration before that too. They were coming even back in the 1800s with the Germans, Polish, Eastern Europeans, etc because the Jews were German, Polish ...

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213737isPrime@reddit

Before as well. I believe the oldest synagogue in the US (in Savannah) is from the 17th century. Jews were also a historical presence in the other colonies. I'll refer you to https://massachusettssociety.app.box.com/s/wuabzztqlksvyfx55kbzupc76fu6aq27 for one or two perspectives.

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tn00bz@reddit

Yeah, that's covered in more in US history, since it's not in the curriculum for world

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That-Bluejay3533@reddit

I'm not Jewish, but I agree with you. I think everyone knows why Jews immigrated. I don't even know why my own family immigrated much less why others of varried European decent

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Greycat125@reddit

I’m not sure if you’re referring to the Holocaust, but that’s not actually why most Jewish people immigrated to the US. The height of Jewish immigration was in the late 1800s/early 1900s.

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That-Bluejay3533@reddit

So the same as everyone else

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Greycat125@reddit

No not the same. 1890 there were not Nazis yet.

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That-Bluejay3533@reddit

The seeds of WW2 were planted in WW1.... idk if it's where I'm from, but they do not skip over Jewish history here. Jewish history month is next month. There are museums. Half of my family is Roma, and they knew they had to leave. I have no clue why my Ukrainian grandparents came here, except that my grandfather wanted to join the Army

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Greycat125@reddit

If you want to conflate mass economic migration of the 19th century with WW2 go ahead, but every historian will laugh at to.

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iceteaapplepie@reddit

Have you ever heard of Pogroms? Jewish migration in the 19th century was not purely economic.

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That-Bluejay3533@reddit

But you're on reddit , not in a college class?

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livelongprospurr@reddit

I am not Jewish, but I have read at least two local histories about Jewish settlers — one was a two-volume set about St Louis and the other was about Richmond, Virginia.

Jews are “people of the book” but also people of books, in my experience. If there’s any topic, some Jewish scholar will write about how they were involved.

I just thought of another book I read, which is not about a place but the ancient industry of glass making.

Turns out in their quest to find kosher vessels (ones that would be clean and free from food particles, unlike any pottery or wood), they noticed that glass was much less porous and took on the quest to produce it.

And also a book to describe the history. I love books, and Jews are big on books and scholarship.

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ubiquitous-joe@reddit

I know about it mostly from my parents, not all that much from school. Which is to say, WWII and the Holocaust came up, but not necessarily more about experience in the US.

Do you live in an area with a significant Jewish community? I find there tends to be some bias toward talking about a) British colonialism and b) whatever groups are common locally. The amount of (non-Jewish) German and Irish immigrants is just historically very large by the numbers.

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anneofgraygardens@reddit

Not really. I live in the Bay Area, which has a not insignificant Jewish population overall, but my county specifically is not very diverse. I'd say it's not surprising to meet a Jewish person, but it also wouldn't be shocking to meet someone who really knows absolutely nothing about Jewish history/culture. My town has one synagogue.

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deltagma@reddit

It was forsure taught to me in school too

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Proper-Effort4577@reddit

Yea it just gets lumped in with the other european migrations like its not even really explained at all why so many italians and germans came here

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JettandTheo@reddit

Poverty

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beenoc@reddit

And the Revolutions of 1848 - a ton of German immigrants especially were liberals who were fleeing the counterrevolution and crackdown after the 1848 revolutions failed, many of them used their experience from those events to become Union officers in the Civil War.

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deltagma@reddit

Yep, my german family came because of the 1848 revolutions

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Highway49@reddit

Same. But teaching kids about 1848 in Europe doesn’t seem to be a detail that gets covered in most basic world history classes in high schools.

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DrMindbendersMonocle@reddit

It did in mine and I went to school in southern california

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Highway49@reddit

Did you take AP World History or AP European History?

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DrMindbendersMonocle@reddit

They germans and irish came in the mid 19th century due to irish potato famine and the germans because of political turmoil and failed revolutions (germany was not a unified country at the time but a bunch of smaller ones)

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dan_blather@reddit

Same here. I grew up in a not-so-Jewish part of the Northeast US (about 1.5% of the otherwise very Catholic metro population), and in elementary and high school (1970s-1980s) we learned about early immigration of the merchant class from Germany, European pogroms, later Eastern European immigration, and the huge role Yiddishe Ashkenazi played on shaping American popular cuture.

I remember an emphasis on the traditional Ellis Island/NYC immigrant groups -- Irish, Southern Italian/Sicilian, Ashkenazi Jewish -- along with the involuntary immigration of enslaved sub-Saharan Africans. German and Polish immigrants were a footnote, even though they were the foundation of the two largest ethnic groups in my hometown. East Asian immigration was basically "Chinese workers built the railroads out west under terrible conditions." There was a little bit about Scandanavians in the upper Midwest, Acadians and Quebecois in New England and Louisiana, and Japanese and Mexicans in the Western states. We didn't really learn about Highlands/Scots immigration to Appalachia and Southern states, or immigratts from South Asia and the Middle East

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JadeBeach@reddit

Look at its comment history.

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anneofgraygardens@reddit

whose?

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Accomplished_Ad_8013@reddit

See I took AP US history. So we learned about how Jewish immigration was generally rejected until after WW2. Even durring WW2 we sent Jewish immigrants back in the middle of a massive labor shortage. We also learned about progroms in early US history where jews would commonly be attacked and ran out of town.

Basically what we learned was that us Jews were used as pawns within political propaganda. It wasnt till the US had a major incentive to allow mass jewish immigration that it actually happened. But most of US history was very hostile to jews. WW2s really the only propaganda piece we have left to cling to. But ultimately we werent really the good guys like we play up. The US took an opportunistic approach and exploited the situation to massive degree. Early on it was our corporations supporting the Nazis. Ford and most notably IBM. IBM actually designed the hardware that sorted jews and designated who should be detained and cent to concertation camps. The US government was fine with it till it seemed the Germans wouldnt win and we needed to pick a side. Its often repeated that most of the world didnt know about the holocaust till German lines were pushed back enough to liberate concertation camps. This is a lie. The US knew before anyone else.

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iuabv@reddit

I feel like OP is trying to construct a narrative here and no one is playing along.

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

It was so strange for me. I’m not Jewish but grew up in a Jewish neighborhood and lots of my friends were Jewish so you just kind of learned about the history. My Catholic school had a lot of Jewish families so we got taught about it.

Then I moved up to Maine and realized there were essentially no Jews in northern New England. In high school I would have guessed the US was like 10-20% Jewish. Huge overestimation on my part.

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Curmudgy@reddit

In high school I would have guessed the US was like 10-20% Jewish.

That must have been a mixed neighborhood. I would have guessed 80% when I was in Junior High until I got my hands on an almanac.

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akunis@reddit

Yeah, I literally spent my summers next door to an All Boys Jewish summer camp near Liberty, New York. It’s like a different world. I thought atleast a quarter of Americans were Jewish until I was like 10 years old.

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

For me it was attending the Bureau of Jewish Education though I’m not Jewish for kindergarten and preschool.

Also my dad was a doctor and about a quarter of the partners at his practice were Jewish.

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LightspeedBalloon@reddit

I feel like I didn't hear that much about it growing up in the PNW but when I lived in NYC it was everywhere.

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CODENAMEDERPY@reddit

I grew up in the PNW and learned about it quite well. Perhaps is because I’m younger though.

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independentchickpea@reddit

I'm a millennial and it was a footnote at best, but I grew up in tiny redneckville. Pretty sure we didn't even have a single Jewish family in the county.

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NeptuneHigh09er@reddit

It’s also possible that there are and you wouldn’t have any reason to know. Every state has Jewish people- even the Dakotas where there are it’s estimated that there are about 800 or 900 per state. In every other state it’s 2000+. Granted, its more likely they are in a city, but not always. Many Jewish families are not that observant and wouldn’t prioritize living near a synagogue.

I’ve had plenty of people assume I’m Christian and wish me a Merry Christmas, a Happy Easter, etc. I’ve made Christian decorations in school and in after school activities. As a kid I never really thought about refusing to do those things- I just wanted to fit in, even if it was kind of alienating. If a random stranger wishes me a Merry Christmas, why bother correcting them? Even if I tried, and said “Happy Hannukah!” it would most likely come off as confrontational. People make assumptions about those around them and if they aren’t ever corrected it just conforms the belief. So there might be people in your county that keep to themselves about it except with people that know them well. But also, maybe there aren’t any, who knows.

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independentchickpea@reddit

Totally. And Portland, where I live now, has many prominent Jewish families. I'm actually related to one, but have never identified as Jewish. All I know was it wasn't a visible community. Not to imply there were none at all, just no overt activity or cultural acknowledgement.

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NeptuneHigh09er@reddit

Sure, that makes sense!

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CODENAMEDERPY@reddit

My county is rural, I’m literally a farmer. I had the same 9 classmates for 6 years. It’s probably not because of rural/urban divide.

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independentchickpea@reddit

Yeah, similar here, but our history teacher was obviously only teaching so he could also coach our (abysmal) football team. Literally the only rule was that we were not to speak in his class (even to say "bless you" when someone sneezed) so it was not like he encouraged intellectual curiosity... And I doubt he had any. Likely just a result of lack of representation in conjunction with a piss-poor teacher. My science education was phenomenal - my teacher for biology was a retired hardcore oceanographer who LOVED science and as a result I got an A+ education from her, because she cared and had a ton of time to encourage her topic with us. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Calm-Medicine-3992@reddit

I bet someone living in the same place can guess based on 'Scots, Scandinavians, and Polish' since those groups aren't exactly the normal US Immigration history conversation points.

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Pac_Eddy@reddit

Never learned or heard about it in the Midwest.

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Welpe@reddit

Yeah, I feel like I never even met a Jewish person in the PNW, or seen a synagogue. It always felt like a group that was concentrated back east.

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BaseballNo916@reddit

Yeah. We learned about it in history in school and I feel like people definitely bring it up, however I grew in an area with a significant Jewish community. I’m guessing OP just doesn’t know a lot of Jews?

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LoriReneeFye@reddit

Maybe because Judaism isn't specific to one country. Jewish people live everywhere, always have.

When you write Irish, Germans, Scots, and so forth, you're referring to countries of origin.

There wasn't a modern Israel until 1948, so it's not as if the USA was having a lot of immigrants "from Israel" because ... there wasn't an Israel.

Does that makes sense?

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Mellow_Zelkova@reddit

Probably my area. I heard about Jews in WW2 history only. Thought they will some "long gone" people like the Native Americans (history class did some things well, but ignored a lot too okay.) Then one time a cute boy in my gym class said he was Jewish and they were no longer a hypothetical. Midwest btw^also I accidentally made friends with a Nazi but it didn't stick with me and she grew out of it

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Folksma@reddit

There is an American girl doll focused on it

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Turbulent_Bullfrog87@reddit

American Girl dolls mentioned!!!!!🥰

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French_Apple_Pie@reddit

I was going to say, there’s a whole ass American Girl that comes accessorized with a menorah and a samovar, Rebecca Rubin.

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_hammitt@reddit

Holy shit I wish she existed when I was a kid

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French_Apple_Pie@reddit

I just had my own kid and indulged her in the things my family couldn’t have afforded when I was growing up, lol. She was more interested in the crappy, overpriced accessory animals than the dolls. 🤦‍♀️ My son had a Bitty Baby that he treasured, though.

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handsupheaddown@reddit

Jews were also some of the first immigrants to North America—there were Jews on board with Columbus and there are Jewish communities particularly in the South from the 17th century

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CommodorePuffin@reddit

...there were Jews on board with Columbus

I bet most (if not all) of them were conversos. These were Jews who outwardly converted to Catholicism in the 14th and 15th centuries (under threat of death by the Inquisition), but still practiced Judaism in secret.

I didn't even know about this until a few years ago, and I thought it was fascinating and made sense. If you're being told "covert or die," well... you'll say whatever they want to hear.

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handsupheaddown@reddit

Yes and many others fled to North Africa, the Levant, and Turkey.

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arathorn3@reddit

I am a descendant of News that settled in Forsyth, county Georgia pre Civil War.

There is also a movie about those old southern Jewish communities, Driving Miss Daisy.(Daisys family is Jewish, Morgan freemes.character takes her to the synagogue a couple times and also the cops pull them over one time and comms t in a black chaieffer driving a old.Jewish lady around)

Also it's worth noting that 1492, the year Columbus made his first voyage to the Americas was also the year the Spanish Inquisition started.

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Curmudgy@reddit

Not really the inquisition, but rather the expulsion of Jews from Spain.

There were several documented Jews who sailed with Columbus, and some people speculate that Columbus was a converso.

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SnooChipmunks2079@reddit

As an American not very well educated on history, my assumption would have been that the Jewish immigrants were contemporary to other immigrants from the same country.

If 100,000 Germans came, and 5% of them were Jews, I’m not sure why I’d call it out.

We’re definitely taught a bit about Jews fleeing the Nazi regime pre- and during WW2 but otherwise I do t remember it being g called out in 80’s high school US History class. (I’m old-ish.)

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HowtoEatLA@reddit

It absolutely is. Specifically in that era.

For examples, off the top of my head, check out the website for the Tenement Museum in NYC.

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CommodorePuffin@reddit

I really want to visit the Tenement Museum. Unfortunately, it's a very long and expensive plane ride from the west coast of Canada to NYC.

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HowtoEatLA@reddit

It sure is. That’s why I specified looking at the website - they do a good job of putting a lot of useful information on it. Especially for someone who’s unfamiliar with the history of Jewish immigration to the US, as OP is.

The Museum of the Southern Jewish Experience in New Orleans is another good resource for learning about Jewish immigration - the website isn’t as robust but they put pretty interesting stuff on their Instagram.

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CommodorePuffin@reddit

Oh, I have definitely visited the website before and I've watched videos on their YouTube channel. Even so, it's not the same as being there.

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Grace_Alcock@reddit

I love that museum!

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hewhoisneverobeyed@reddit

That is an incredible museum.

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BottleTemple@reddit

I've been to the museum. I'd highly recommend it!

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lefactorybebe@reddit

Loooove the tenement museum. Ive been trying to go back and haven't made it yet, but I went in middle school and thought it was the coolest thing. Still have weirdly vivid memories from it

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BottleTemple@reddit

I went for the first time a year or two ago and I loved it!

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Lifeboatb@reddit

And it’s usually mentioned when specific subjects like the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire and Tin Pan Alley songwriters are discussed.

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Helopilot1776@reddit

Maybe because it’s so associated with the rise of communism and some other less then desired imports from Europe

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LocaCapone@reddit

It's their descendants' job to acknowledge that history.

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cawfytawk@reddit

It's always referred to in NYC where they were all received and established deep roots in the city. Perhaps in other areas of the country where there aren't large populations of Jews it's not considered or intentional ignored due to anti-semitism ?

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SJSUMichael@reddit

Not sure what history classes you’ve had, but Eastern European immigration is absolutely talked about in US history classes. It’s where I first heard the word pogrom.

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thomasp3864@reddit

I assumed it was as just lumped in with the general population.

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DrMindbendersMonocle@reddit

It got covered in my history classes, about the same amount as the italians

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ExtinctFauna@reddit

We've got a movie about it: American Tail (which is based on pogroms done in Russia).

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leeloocal@reddit

And the better of the two, Fievel Goes West.

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kmikek@reddit

Try The Frisco Kid starring Gene Wilder and harrison ford, my favorite

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Warren_Puffitt@reddit

When I saw "Frisco Kid" and "Gene Wilder," my brain told me Waco Kid (Blazing Saddles).

But to be accurate, in Blazing Saddles, the Indians spoke Yiddish.

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Lemonbard0@reddit

Might be a Mormon reference. They believe that American Indians are one of the lost tribes of Israel, and that they crossed the ocean in wooden submarines.

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Warren_Puffitt@reddit

Sounds legit

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kmikek@reddit

In Cannibal, The Musical, by the south park guys, the indians are japanese

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

And that’s not even his most Jewish film… I love Gene Wilder

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catslady123@reddit

The first thing I thought of was “well we’ve got Fievel Goes West”

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leeloocal@reddit

I hate to say that the American Tail movies were how I learned about programs in the first place. Don Bluth, teaching kids about Jewish history through song and famous voice actors.

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Sapphire_Bombay@reddit

You just unlocked a childhood memory I completely forgot about

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leeloocal@reddit

With Jimmie Stewart voicing Wylie Burp. 🤣

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CorpseJuiceSlurpee@reddit

It was the last thing he did before he died too.

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leeloocal@reddit

Sort of like Transformers for Orson Welles.

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wittyrepartees@reddit

And a musical! Doesn't Tevye move to the states?

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ExtinctFauna@reddit

Yes! At the very end, the whole town of Anatevka moves to the states.

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wittyrepartees@reddit

One of them goes to the holy land I think?

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ExtinctFauna@reddit

I think Lazar Wolf goes to NYC and Tevye goes to Chicago? I know Chava stays behind with her Christian husband.

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wittyrepartees@reddit

Just looked it up- Yente goes to the holy land.

Anyway, may God bless and keep the Tzar- far away from us.

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ffa1985@reddit

To be specific: at the same time the Mousekewitz family and their neighbors were being attacked by monstrous cat-cossacks, the human inhabitants of the shtetl were also being attacked. Don Bluth movies almost all dealt with themes that would not be considered appropriate for pre-school audiences today.

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Many_Pea_9117@reddit

Also, Everything is Illuminated. My family was mostly killed in the pogroms. Grandfather made it out. Set up a deli, died young, but had 6 kids before then. Sounded like he was a great guy from the stories.

I also remember as a kid watching Avalon (1990) which is about a Jewish immigrant family in Baltimore.

For me, both of these movies speak to my experiences growing up and listening to stories about my mother's family either dying or struggling to make it in America.

On the one hand I feel like these are universal immigrant experiences, on the other hand, I know most people will never learn much about these stories, and they are only for myself and my family.

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itcheyness@reddit

Somewhere out there beneath the pale moonlight...

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kingjaffejaffar@reddit

There’s also the underrated Gene Wilder and Harrison Ford film “The Frisco Kid”.

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libananahammock@reddit

There are NOOOOO cats in America and the streets are filled with cheese!

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MercyMeThatMurci@reddit

and recently The Brutalist.

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Bacontoad@reddit

A fantastic movie.

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TinyRandomLady@reddit

There are no cats in America. And the streets are paved with cheese!

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WistfulD@reddit

The Frisco Kid kind of falls in that category too.

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jseego@reddit

Also The Frisco Kid

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pippintook24@reddit

It installed about. At least I grew up hearing/learning bout it. not only in school, but from my Jewish friends ( or their grandparents more accurately)

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GhostOfJamesStrang@reddit

A lot of our Jewish immigrants came from places you mention like Poland

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Pinwurm@reddit

For clarity, Jewish people in Central & Eastern Europe weren't considered "Polish", or "Russian" or "Ukrainian" in the same sense we think of it today. They were considered a distinct stateless nationality. Especially in the late 1800's and early 1900's - they would often speak Yiddish amongst themselves.

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wittyrepartees@reddit

A lot of times they were probably moving with their Christian counterparts though, unless it was specifically due to a pogram that wasn't related to other internal issues.

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mysecondaccountanon@reddit

Exactly. I check my family’s stuff, they’re not considered actually from the country that they arrived from by that country, they’re always considered Jews, Hebrews, etc.

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Particular-Cloud6659@reddit

Yes. I think but I think because they refused to marry non-Jews?

My great great grandmother married a Christian and then she was just a Pole.

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ffa1985@reddit

It probably also depended on how Westernized they were, since not all Jews lived in a Yiddish-speaking village and were highly integrated in some places.

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jd732@reddit

On the US census, residents are listed by nation of birth, not religion.

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Pinwurm@reddit

Neat, and a complete failure to understand ethnoreligious groups like Druze, Alawites, Sikhs, etc.

My birth certificate literally says "Nationality: Jewish." I’m an American, but I was born in Eastern Europe.

Also, the U.S. Census is entirely self-reported - there’s no rigid standard for how someone must identify. Right now, Egyptians and other MENA folks are typically categorized as White simply because there's no better category. We all know they aren't.
That’s changing in 2030 when MENA will be its own category, and about a third of Jews are expected to identify with it.

To be clear, Jews are first and foremost a people, made up of Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Sephardic, and a few other ethnic groups. The religion comes in a distant second. Maybe even a third, after the food.

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recoveringleft@reddit

What about the Berbers from Algeria? There are quite a few of them that actually looked European and would be mistaken for European unless they open their mouth or wear their traditional clothes

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macoafi@reddit

On the ship manifests, though, these are three separate columns:

nationality
race or people
last permanent residence country

I believe Jews would’ve been listed as their own distinct “people,” just as my GGF was listed as “nationality: Hungary” and “people: Croatian”.

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Adept_Carpet@reddit

Yeah, a big part of this is because many Jews did not retain strong ties to where they came from. Often because they didn't have strong ties to the area even while they lived there.

An Italian can go back to the village their ancestors came from and they might meet their cousins.

In the place where my family emigrated from, more than 90% of the remaining Jews were killed in the Holocaust and there is no significant Jewish presence there today.

When my family came over, the first generation born here prohibited older family members from speaking Yiddish around their babies (though they still studied Hebrew) because they wanted their children to be fully American. This happened in the families of all my ancestors, who grew up in different states and didn't know each other so I suspect the practice was widespread. My grandmother remembers her older relatives sitting around in silence, waiting for her to leave so they could speak.

They consciously severed all ties to Europe, and even down to my generation I was always told I needed to get a job that required hard skills and was vital to the health or defense of the country so that I would be a person that was hard to get rid of.

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drillbit7@reddit

Yeah, a big part of this is because many Jews did not retain strong ties to where they came from. Often because they didn't have strong ties to the area even while they lived there.

Also the borders changed after they left. The area might have been under the Russian Empire (Pale of Settlement) at the time but is now modern day Poland, Belarus, etc.

I've seen the census records for some of my ancestors. The answer to birthplaces changes from decade to decade. First Russia (1910) then Poland (1920).

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Shmeepish@reddit

One side of my family came from western Russia and spoke Yiddish. Definitely seems common among my peers growing up

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

Because Jews represent a really small amount of the population. Chinese immigration usually only gets talked about in school specifically because of the ban on immigration for them. To my knowledge Jews never had a particular ban for being Jewish. It does get mentioned in school that we turned away Jewish refugees from Europe before WWII (or at least it was in my school).

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Lifeboatb@reddit

They were banned from many institutions, but I don’t think citizenship. Update: I didn’t realize until I looked it up just now that General US Grant tried to kick them out of some states: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/ulysses-s-grant-and-general-orders-no-11.htm

He later regretted it, apparently.

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Particular-Cloud6659@reddit

He didnt kick them out of the states. The Tennessee dept was a region at the tennessee/mississippi/kentucky. Grants father and some men who were wealthy Jewish merchants therw attempted to use Grant's position to profit from goods that were confiscated in the Black market. They were going to his father a 25% kickback.

That enraged Grant and he kicked them all out from the military district that he was responsible for. Of course not fair. He should of just kick out the ones that were committing the crimes, and not make like 50 familes pay. What only 5 families were involved in.

But he did regret it, his wife bashed him for and Lincoln reversed it within a few weeks - which is quick considering they were letter writing.

I really had no idea that Jews were that respected but there was a huge backlash. Grant was almost censured. It was front pages news.

After the presidency was behind him he write a letter about how foolish it was and will always be a blot on his record - and against his high standands of what it meant to be an American.

He hired Jewish people and they had a real presence in the government.

Kicking out those almost 100 people out of their homes is said to be the most blatant state anti semitism in US history.

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Lifeboatb@reddit

The Library of Congress says, "Ulysses S. Grant's infamous Order No. 11, banning Jews as a class from Kentucky, Tennessee, and Mississippi," so that's where I got that idea. Perhaps they're wrong and you're right--I see some other sources say "the department" only comprised parts of those states, but I haven't found a map.

According to the National Park Service link I already posted, the cotton speculators in question were part of one family, not five, and just to clarify, they weren't trying to profit from already-confiscated goods (the way you phrased it is ambiguous, but it could be read that way). They were trying to finagle a (shady) permit to be allowed to purchase goods legally:

The Mack brothers were part of a prominent Jewish family from Cincinnati that owned a clothing business. Jesse Grant [Grant's father] had agreed to take the Mack family to General Grant’s headquarters in Mississippi for 25 percent of the profits gained from the cotton they had hoped to obtain. General Grant was not happy with his father when he made this attempt to use his position as a military officer for monetary gain, and he was not happy with the Jewish clothiers who had tried to get a permit for purchasing cotton through his father. Grant denied the Mack family the purchasing permit and sent them back home. This incident may have been prominent in Grant’s mind when he issued General Orders No. 11. [italics mine]

Much else of what you wrote was in the link I posted, and I already noted that he regretted the order, so I'm not quite sure why you responded in this way, but I guess it's all right to make Grant's regrets more prominent. He was unusual in that he could admit when he was wrong.

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Particular-Cloud6659@reddit

That's from a random book. But that family had people in their family. Thats an extended family they were adults. I wrote in my response. His father was promises 25% kickback if they got the cotton.

I just googled on my phone where did Grant expel jews from. I feel like you had to take a deep dive to find one that was wrong and suggested the whole states?
They all explain that his military district that comprised parts of those states. It was mostly Paducah. Jews werent farmers mostly and it was just merchants.

Even in the Jewish analysis i found it said less than 100 people. Not that it matters. You dont punish other people for something someone else did. Kick out the war profiteers and leave the other people, unharmed and in their homes.

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Lifeboatb@reddit

Also, an article on the Ulysses S Grant National Historic Site is not “a random book.”

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Lifeboatb@reddit

The Library of Congress site was actually the first one I found; I just didn’t link to it in my first comment. The LOC and the Park Service are normally quite reliable; not sure if that will change under Trump’s crazed second administration.

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PNKAlumna@reddit

Jewish Immigration was a huge target of the 1924 Immigration Act, which put quotas on immigrants among specifically from Eastern and Southern Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924 (There’s a whole section on it there)

Basically, too many “undesirable” immigrants (EE Jews, Slavs, etc.) were coming into the US, so immigration was heavily restricted from certain countries. Luckily for me, my great-grandmother came here in September 1923, or she probably would have been turned back.

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CupBeEmpty@reddit

Ah yes I see. I meant Jews weren’t explicitly targeted like the Chinese but I guess that is pretty close to explicit targeting even though it applied to anyone from those parts of Europe.

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mysecondaccountanon@reddit

Yep. That act basically cut off the majority of Jewish immigration to the U.S.

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JadeBeach@reddit

Are you kidding? In what universe do you believe that the history of Chinese immigrants is taught in every classroom, but the history of Jewish Americans is ignored? Were you not taught about the labor movement?

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Bright_Ices@reddit

In my experience, it varies a lot by region. I didn’t learn much about Jewish history in America (or at all, other than Hanukkah and the holocaust) growing up in Utah, but when I went to school in Connecticut (no, not Yale) and worked in NYC, I learned a ton!

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Pinwurm@reddit

Around 2% of Americans are Jewish. If anything, we're over-represented in the national conversation.

For example, just this year we had (at least) two Oscar winning movies about the Jewish-American immigrant/diaspora experience with "A Real Pain" and "The Brutalist". If you look at entertainment media, you'll find even ridiculous examples of this like Seth Rogen's "An American Pickle", which I personally adored.

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_hammitt@reddit

An American Pickle was a delight.

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The12th_secret_spice@reddit

We don’t really talk/teach about catholic immigration either.

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_hammitt@reddit

In Boston we sure do.

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the_ebagel@reddit

Because Catholics in the US come from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds. You have the Irish, Italians, Poles, (some) Germans, French Canadians, and Mexicans to name a few groups, and they’re spread out across over two centuries of immigration waves. For that reason, Catholicism is often most concentrated in major urban areas on the coasts like Los Angeles, New York, Boston, and Philadelphia.

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The12th_secret_spice@reddit

Isn’t that the same with Jewish immigrants from those same countries?

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anneofgraygardens@reddit

No? There aren't a lot of Jewish immigrants from Canada or Mexico or Ireland.

Jews primarily immigrated from the same part of the world at around the same time, for the same reason. There are way more Catholics, living in way more places, and their reasons for immigration are much more diverse.

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Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit

That really isn’t true.

We he had Jewish population large enough to from religious congregations back before the 17th century.

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anneofgraygardens@reddit

Well, you're totally right, but that population was really, really small in number. (chart] We're talking about a time when the Jewish capital of the US was Charleston, SC.

The vast majority of American Jews today are the descendents of immigrants in the major waves of immigration in the late 19th/early 20th century. That's why I said "primarily".

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recoveringleft@reddit

I'd say Nebraska they talk a lot about Catholic immigration because in the rural areas there are still devout Catholic whose ancestors are from Poland, what is now czechia and Germany and my friend who went to their local church in 2022 saw they have four to seven children

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Major_Spite7184@reddit

Because most of the Jewish immigration was due to some sort of persecution from whatever country they came from, and that’s just how it was tracked. Nationality was more relevant than religion.

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_hammitt@reddit

As I was taught it this isn’t the case. We were taught about Jews fleeing pogroms in Eastern Europe, with no note of where. Ethnicity (Jewish) was more important than nationality (Latvian, Russian, etc) - not least because most Eastern Europeans considered Jews ethnically separate enough that they wouldn’t consider them Russian or Lithuanian at all - they’d be considered Jews living in Russia.

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Few-Might2630@reddit

I’ve heard plenty of Jewish immigration stories.

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Puzzled-Parsley-1863@reddit

I've heard a lot about the Jewish immigration to NYC after the pogroms in Tsarist Russia. They started out generally in textiles or jewelry, mildly famously owning lots of department stores

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Shmeepish@reddit

My grandparents and their people did just that, all spoke Yiddish too. I didn’t think about how my knowledge of this is so skewed by my upbringing, didn’t realize so many people go their whole lives knowing nothing about Jews, like thinking that they were polish people who happened to be Jewish like an American Christian today would identify or be considered.

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Americanboi824@reddit

didn’t realize so many people go their whole lives knowing nothing about Jews, like thinking that they were polish people who happened to be Jewish

I was sort of brought up thinking the same thing... in a half-Jewish household. Historic trauma and oppression is a heck of a drug.

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Stardustchaser@reddit

An American Tail was an amazing film and hit on a lot of themes of the Jewish immigrant experience.

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NemoTheElf@reddit

If you live in states with large Jewish populations, it absolutely is, and even then many schools still touch on it.

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peacesigngrenades203@reddit

Now that you mention it I’ve always categorized Jewish with religion and not an ethnicity. Perhaps that’s how our census has done it?

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JoeCensored@reddit

Because Jewish people aren't a nationality. Jewish people come from a variety of countries and cultures.

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mezolithico@reddit

They're a distinct genetic group. And they are talked about-- its called the jewish diaspora

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JoeCensored@reddit

Which isn't at all similar to culture or nationality. The Han ethnic group for example, is the majority of China, but also large populations across a number of countries. 97% of Taiwan is Han, a higher percentage than China itself. There's large Han populations in Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.

We don't talk about Han immigration though. We talk about immigration from these countries individually, because ethnicity doesn't dictate values and culture.

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Positive-Avocado-881@reddit

Come to the east coast and tell me there’s no such thing as Jewish culture 😂

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JoeCensored@reddit

That's a culture that formed as an amalgamation of various separate cultures of Jewish people from different countries. You're actually proving my point.

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MayoManCity@reddit

...what do you think culture is? Every single culture on this godforsaken planet is an amalgamation of many, many cultures. America itself has "amalgamation of cultures" as a pillar of its own identity.

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JoeCensored@reddit

And how does your point tie into the question from the OP?

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MayoManCity@reddit

It doesn't. It acts as a direct refutation of your point that Jewish culture isn't a culture because it's an amalgamation.

Was that really a question you needed to ask, or did you want to avoid looking a bit silly by deflecting?

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JoeCensored@reddit

I never said it isn't a culture. Do you know what the word amalgamation means? It doesn't seem you do.

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MayoManCity@reddit

I apologize, I read your initial comment as saying "Jewish" isn't a culture. My mistake on that.

I am fully aware of what an amalgamation is, my precious comments were made with that above mistake.

I would still say however that Jewish culture being an amalgamation of cultures does not prove your point that they are not a nation because of that. As I said before, America, and going a bit further back almost every country, is proof that "amalgamation of cultures" and "one country/nationality" are not mutually exclusive.

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Positive-Avocado-881@reddit

You’re very loud and wrong here but clearly you want to die on this hill 😂

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Many_Pea_9117@reddit

I think you are completely missing the point if you think the Jewish immigrant experience is comparable with the Han experience.

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JoeCensored@reddit

I wasn't making that comparison. I was explaining why Americans don't talk about immigration in terms of ethnic groups. But you're clearly trying to avoid my point in bad faith, so we're done.

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mezolithico@reddit

There is absolutely Jewish culture. Many folks consider themselves culturally jewish.

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Yggdrasil-@reddit

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Also, we totally do talk about specific ethnic groups migrating here when it's relevant. Rohingya and Hmong people both come to mind

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Shmeepish@reddit

The point a lot make is that it’s odd to consider them nationality first when they weren’t even considered fellow countrymen by the people there. They were seen as a stateless group existing, and from the perspective of my ancestors home country “causing problems” like you hear people say about actual immigrants today.

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ReadinII@reddit

when they weren’t even considered fellow countrymen by the people there.

Perhaps that’s just a difference in how they were viewed in Europe vs how they were viewed in America?

In all the complaints and examples anti-Jewish bigotry in America, none of them have involved claims that Jewish people aren’t American.

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mysecondaccountanon@reddit

Yeahhh that’s not how my older relatives and family friends have put it. It was basically like if you were known to be Jewish you weren’t considered really American™, like sure you could be American, but it was always with this more than just tinge of but not really truly, at least socially. If you acted more non-Jewish white, then you could have acceptance, but you’d still always be Jewish at the end of the day, and if you acted Jewish, then you were really just considered a Jew and that was sorta it.

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anneofgraygardens@reddit

It's nice that you think that.

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ReadinII@reddit

Just relaying my experience and what I have seen in mass media (and TBH nearly all the anti-Jewish bias and complaints I have seen have been in mass media; I don’t live in New York or New Jersey and in my experience that’s where a lot of the bias is).

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anneofgraygardens@reddit

Donald Trump thinks that Jews should support him because he supports Israel. The idea that American Jews are Americans who prioritize what's happening in the US has clearly not occurred to him.

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ReadinII@reddit

He’s from New York, right?

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Argent_Mayakovski@reddit

In all the complaints and examples anti-Jewish bigotry in America, none of them have involved claims that Jewish people aren’t American.

That's not at all true. The 'hebrewization' of NYC was a big talking point in the 19th century, and that's certainly not the only example. Jews were absolutely viewed as a foreign ethnic group in America.

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Grouchy-Display-457@reddit

And were not considered white.

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Shmeepish@reddit

I would think so. Time period also matters a ton.

The US had a unique immigrant culture in the 19th and 20th century, such that considering people irish, Italian, Jewish, etc wasn’t necessarily denying their Americanism.

I think it also a point matters that we consider the perspective. When talking about the past as a generalized statement, when in reality it was years and years in the making, you end up distilling it. I am sure there were lovely people everywhere they went that considered them to be fellow countrymen. But I’m talking as we are, we are more so considering the influential ideology that drove history at the end of the day. So when I say they were never considered it, that is commenting on the most influential ideology and largely the politically established narrative.

So for example they lived there as minorities, often second class or being seen as diaspora within a host nations. This was for a while just to be scapegoated as capitalist schemers and leaches by Russia or Marxist/communist proponents of immorality in Germany, then the summations is that they were not considered nationals. The trend of being blamed and pogromed or abused, or conspirators trying to steal a country or its future from its people, was largely based on this idea of us vs them.

They often were restricted in professions, relationships, living opportunities, etc such that they ended up remaining a distinct cultural. This was a viscous feedback loop. It doesn’t help that Jews do like to stick together independent of the discrimination, which is one of those valid and totally fine things that antisemites will hone in on and misrepresent as evidence to people already convinced of a degree antisemitism.

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JoeCensored@reddit

Americans had nothing to do with the Jewish people being stateless in these other countries. That's an issue to raise in these other countries, not with Americans.

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Shmeepish@reddit

Yeah man I may I have not been clear so that’s my bad, but that’s not really what I was talking about. I was trying to explain why some do not consider them Jews from a place but rather propel from that place that were Jewish, and why some consider them a diaspora that was spread out geographically.

I was commenting on the reason why people think it should be more widely considered. Not that we have to do something about this as Americans. As others have stated, a lot of the east coast does know this, so OP may be from somewhere without much education on the matter.

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brand_x@reddit

And? We are an ethnicity. We do have a shared culture.

There aren't all that many stateless people (yes, yes, now there's Israel - and now Israel has created a stateless people, smh) but it doesn't make sense to deny a people their identity because our ancestors were stateless when they arrived.

Most Jewish Americans are the descendants of refugees. Not all, but most. Our forebears fled persecution, many were escaping, or surviving, genocides. Russian pogroms, extermination and expulsion in Southern Europe, the Holocaust. Not a nationality, but there's still a story to tell.

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JoeCensored@reddit

Talking about immigration by nationality isn't denying people their identity.

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brand_x@reddit

Jewish people didn't generally immigrate with the people of whichever country they happened to be fleeing at that time.

We don't talk about immigration by nationality, we talk about it by ethnicity. Sometimes it's an ethnicity that spans a handful of nations, sometimes it's an ethnicity that was not the dominant ethnicity in a nation. The Kurdish people, the Serbian people, the Armenian people - we don't talk about Soviet immigration, we talk about the immigration of the ethnic groups that the Soviet Union engulfed. And, yes, there's a difference between Sephardim and Ashkenazim, but there's far less of a gulf between the Ashkenazim who fled Poland, or Germany, or Russia. They are far more part of each others' stories than they are the stories of the Polish people, or the German people, or the Russian people.

It's my identity, and as such, I am informing you that you are denying my people our identity.

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jseego@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group

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dgmilo8085@reddit

It depends on where you live. In some places, like New York, LA, and the DC area with large Jewish populations, you’ll find a lot more education, programming, and cultural awareness around Jewish history, both in schools and in the broader community. But it’s also true that in places where the Jewish population is smaller, or where there’s been a history of antisemitism, some families have chosen to assimilate more and avoid drawing attention to their heritage—sometimes out of concern for safety or social acceptance.

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lionhearted318@reddit

I don’t think this is ignored at all. Not just in history classes but it’s also very prevalent in media/pop culture too.

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Amishpornstar7903@reddit

Because it's isn't a nationality, it's a religion.

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lennoco@reddit

It's an ethnoreligion.

The ancient Egyptians had a national religion—would you consider ancient Egyptians to be a religious group or a nationality or ethnicity? What about the ancient Greeks?

Jews are a family tribe from Israel who were expelled from their land by colonizers, and yet maintained their culture and practice in the diaspora.

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Amishpornstar7903@reddit

Because I'm not religious I see everything as ethnic standpoints.

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lennoco@reddit

I’m also not religious, but I am Jewish in my ethnicity, genetics, and culture. Weird how that works if Judaism is just a religion, huh…?

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Amishpornstar7903@reddit

I'm a foodie so I realized there isn't Christian food, but there is Jewish food. I'm convinced it's a ethnicity now.

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GlassCommercial7105@reddit

Maybe because Jewish is mostly a religion and many were probably Germans or Polish..?

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Infamous_Towel_5251@reddit

Probably because Jew is religion, not nationality. Polish Jews immigrated. German Jews immigrated. And so on.

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lennoco@reddit

When I take a DNA test, it comes back as Jewish.

Does your DNA magically change when you join a religion? No—Jews are an ethnicity and a religious group.

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Infamous_Towel_5251@reddit

I promise you no DNA test exists that tells a person whether or not they are of Jewish ancestry.

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lennoco@reddit

Then I promise you you’re an incredibly ignorant person

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Infamous_Towel_5251@reddit

Sigh.

Tests can say you have some markers, but not whether or not you are a Jew.

However, since you seem to be insufferable I will totally buy you're a Jew.

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lennoco@reddit

Interesting, so not only are you incredibly ignorant about the fact DNA tests can recognize Jewishness, but you’re also just flat out an antisemite

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brand_x@reddit

It's an ethnicity, that has retained a religion from a time when most ethnicities had their own. Yes, there are technically converts, but we don't encourage them, and treat them more like people adopted into our ethnicity than, well, the way Christians treat converts. And not all of us are religious. Even those of us who practice the traditions and ceremonies of our ancestral religion are often nonbelievers, sometimes openly atheists.

And our stories and cultural commonalities often go deeper than our ties to the nation our ancestors most recently fled when they came to this country. My grandfather's tribe was explicitly stateless, nomadic Jewish herders that still spoke a form of Hebrew (with some introgression of Russian and Yiddish elements), who wandered through the steppes, circling from Mongolia to the Caucus mountains over generations, until they found themselves in the path of the Russian pogroms; the handful of survivors ended up in South America and New York. None of them were particularly religious.

They were not a nationality, but like most Jews, they were a stateless people first, a religious group second.

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Shmeepish@reddit

Worth considering that they were not considered polish or German, they were Jews existing in those countries. For example a descendent of a Jew from Germany will not have dna in common with an ethnic German. Then being deemed and outsider force wherever they were rather than fellow countrymen is what made them such ripe targets for scapegoating and blame.

The notion that they were polish or German or Ukrainian or whatever is pretty new.

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jseego@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group

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SadProperty1352@reddit

I believe that with the exception of the very first settlers coming for religious freedom our teaching of history hasn't focused on religion.

I think people didn't generally think of Jews as an ethnicity. So they are included as part of the wave from whatever country they emigrated from. Although that is just my experience. Their were only 2 Jewish families in my small town of 7,000 and one of the families were friends of my family. They were also friends to my Protestant church. I remember as a teenager when they donated a complete set of sterling Communion trays to replace our very old and battered stainless set. It was a big deal in our town and the celebration made the local paper.

For example the Irish wave was taught as people fleeing famine. The books didn't dell on the Catholic vs Protestant conflict part of their decision to come to the US.

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Curmudgy@reddit

very first settlers coming for religious freedom our teaching of history hasn't focused on religion

As proud as I am to point out the Mayflower landed first in P’town, I feel obligated to also point out that the very first settlers were in Virginia, coming for capitalism, not religious freedom.

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SadProperty1352@reddit

You are correct in your information and your reading of what I wrote. I didn't actually write what I thought I did. Good catch.

I wasn't very precise or accurate with language.

I didn't mean the first settlers came for religious freedom.

I was trying to say of the many who immigrated over the years for religious freedom only the first few groups of those many were typically written about in the history books.

I'm glad I don't have to learn English as a second language because it is hard enough as my first language.

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Zama202@reddit

The total number of Jewish immigrants was about half that of Irish or Italian, and closer to a quarter of the number of (non-Jewish) Germans. Also, Jewish immigrants are typically counted amount German, Polish, Russian, and other Slavic immigrants.

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Dangerous_Midnight91@reddit

I agree it’s not, but I grew up in Oregon where the Jewish community is small, with the exception of a few neighborhoods in PDX. We learned about the diaspora emigrating to Oregon via the Oregon trail, but never focused on specific ethnic or religious groups. If I’d grown up in NYC or another large East Coast city, I wonder if I would have been taught more specifically about specific groups and Jewish immigration?

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Mr_Kittlesworth@reddit

It is talked about, but Jewish immigration was fairly gradual and consistent but for the period around the Second World War, and there’s just a lot going on in that particular chapter.

Contrast that with the big waves of Irish or Italian or Chinese of Vietnamese or Mexican or Cuban folks that hit the shores - comparatively - all at once.

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iuabv@reddit

It is? I feel like this is very much a thing. Emigration maybe less so but immigration is absolutely discussed.

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bananapanqueques@reddit

We had few Jews in my corner of Texas, but even we studied Jewish immigration to the USA. Same at university in Utah where there were even fewer. Maybe you fell asleep in history class?

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YakSlothLemon@reddit

It must be where you’re living, because it’s absolutely talked about on the American East Coast. They’re an integral part of the history of New York City, and of immigration at the turn of the century in particular – people like Emma Goldman for example. I actually worked for a while on a Jewish history project in South Carolina.

Hell, Jimmy Cagney famously speak Yiddish in a couple of movies because he grew up in New York in the immigrant neighborhoods.

There have been so many movies and books as well. Sergio Leone’s Once Upon a Time in America. Kids’ film An American Tale. The awful Jazz Singer remake with Neil Diamond… Barry Levinson’s Avalon…

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Curmudgy@reddit

The awful Jazz Singer remake

Why mention that when you can mention the original? And while both Jolson and Diamond were/are Jewish, Jolson really was son of a cantor as in the movie.

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owlwise13@reddit

I grew up in Texas during the 1980s and it never came up. They never mentioned the US Government and the general public were against giving Jewish immigrants asylums as they were fleeing German persecution in the 1930s. I only found out about from History Channel docs, when History Channel was actually about education and history.

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RedLegGI@reddit

The Jewish population is so small that there wasn’t the same kind of impacts, or feared impacts, as with larger groups like the Germans, Irish, and Chinese. The current population makes up about 2.5% of the nation, and that percent has likely been at similar levels throughout the nation’s history. This all told is likely why they’re underrepresented historically.

The outliers are of course the famous Jewish people who had an outsized or disproportionately large impact on American culture. By that measure their works and impact shed more light on themselves rather than the Jewish population writ large.

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Calm-Medicine-3992@reddit

I don't think it's ignored but I do think if you emphasize it a bit too much you come across as a little conspiracy theory minded.

Also, while I know a lot of ethnic groups make up the US, some of those groups are a lot less prominent than Jewish influence on the US and I wouldn't say they get 'brought up' all that often.

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Mrcoldghost@reddit

I’ve learned a lot about it. But then learning about the history of immigration to the us and canada is something of a hobby for me.

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Quietlovingman@reddit

The Jewish immigrants were heavily criticized and demonized in the early part of the 20th century. Especially by the KKK and other white supremacist groups who also seemed to hate Catholics. Then in the late 1940's the holocaust was discovered and reported on. Photos of American and European forces liberating the Death Camps made it into public awareness and it quickly became taboo to be critical of Jewish immigrants. Antisemitism took a bit of a nosedive after that, and it became politically expedient to support Jewish immigration and support the creation of a Jewish State of Israel in 1948. Some of the more radical anti-Jewish people actually also supported the creation, with the intention that all of the Jews in the US be rounded up and shipped there.

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giraflor@reddit

I think it depends on where you grow up. I went to school in the East Coast as did my kids. We learned more about Jewish immigration from Europe than Asian immigration. Baltimore had a wave of Ashkenazi immigrants from Germany and Eastern Europe so we learned about our own state as well as immigration to New York. Most of what I learned about the history of Asian immigration, I learned as an adult for my job.

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ReadinII@reddit

Those Jewish people immigrated from some country and it’s usually the country that gets talked about.

We also don’t talk much about Catholic immigration.

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recoveringleft@reddit

I'd say Nebraska they talk a lot about Catholic immigration because in the rural areas there are still devout Catholic whose ancestors are from Poland, what is now czechia and Germany and my friend who went to their local church in 2022 saw they have four to seven children

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Mediocre_Daikon6935@reddit

Because Jews have always been here.

Congregation Shearith Israel Was founded in 1654 in NY and remains active today, though in a newer building.

Touro Synagogue in Newport, Rhode Island, built in 1763, is the oldest synagogue building still standing in North America

Congregation Jeshuat Israel, founded circa 1658. Newport Rhode Island.

Congregation Mickve Israel of Savannah, Georgia, was organized in 1733.[1] Congregation Mikveh Israel of Philadelphia was organized in the 1740s.[1] Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim Synagogue, Charleston, South Carolina, was founded in the 1740s

It would be like asking: why don’t we talk about the English or Scottish migration.

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ZephRyder@reddit

What about the fact that a lot of those Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovs, Russians, etc, were Jewish?

Like many questions like this, it's not as clean cut as the question-poser often thinks. Being Jewish is often not the first item on a person's self identity list.

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ATLien_3000@reddit

George Washington talked about Jewish immigration in the (letter to the Hebrew Congregation.)[https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/05-06-02-0135]

If you want to know why (even with our flaws) the United States is the best country on earth, reading that 235 year old letter will tell you.

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Jen0BIous@reddit

Idk whose history you think is being ignored? And I don’t mean a whole race but these individuals you claim haven’t been acknowledged

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WarrenMulaney@reddit

Not sure where you went to school but it is taught here in California in 8th and 11th grade History.

The same for all those other groups you mentioned.

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MrLongWalk@reddit

It’s not?

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BaseballNo916@reddit

I think OP just isn’t around Jewish people.

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_pamelab@reddit

That I know of, there were like 3 Jewish kids at my school of 2000 people. We still learned about the Jewish immigrant experience.

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GATZCH496@reddit

I grew up in Texas, and the only Jewish related topic in my history classes was the holocaust.

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shelwood46@reddit

I'd also say that when you are talking about people immigrating from Germany, Poland, Russia, etc, 100ish years ago, a good portion of those people were Jewish.

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Majestic_Electric@reddit

Really? At least where I am, it’s talked about a lot.

Jewish-Americans primarily reside in California, New York, Florida, and New England, so maybe there just aren’t a lot of Jews where you live?

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Grouchy-Display-457@reddit

The first Reform Synagogue in the US is in Chaleston, SC. Itinerant Jewish tinkers sold wares across the country, first as traveling peddlers, then as store owners. French Jews settled in southeastern Ohio, tailoring work clothes for those going farther west. One recalled that in his home town they'd developed a particularly strong cotton for overalls, and Levi Strauss sent to DeNimes for bolts of it.

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legendary_mushroom@reddit

Cause then we'd have to talk about the intense antisemitism of that era

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Ok-Advertising4028@reddit

Are you from an area that had a high population of Jewish immigrants and their families? If so, you probably learned about it.

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Jdobalina@reddit

It’s talked about all the time.

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vile_hog_42069@reddit

Probably because the Jewish immigrants were largely a part of the immigration populace from countries already listed in the post.

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SaintsFanPA@reddit

Come to NYC sometime and you'll hear it discussed plenty. I suspect it is not as widely discussed in some parts of the US as a) the current Jewish population is quite small and b) heavily concentrated in a handful of locales. Houston, for example, has a total Jewish population that is likely less than 60k.

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mkl_dvd@reddit

I remember hearing that in 1900, 1/3 of NYC's population was Jewish. Haven't found it again, so I can't verify.

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SaintsFanPA@reddit

I can't confirm for 1900, but piecing together the numbers below, suggests it was \~28% in 1920, so not too far off.

History of the Jews in New York City - Wikipedia

Demographics of New York City - Wikipedia

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Hour-Watch8988@reddit

I mean, it's around 20% today

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Hamblin113@reddit

Interesting, first thought was they came from a country so were linked with the country. But there is more to it than that. Could be because of antisemitism they kept quiet, especially when they first arrived.

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Digitaltwinn@reddit

I would say the Jewish immigrant history is overly emphasized considering they are just 2.3% of America’s population. The African American population is 14.2%.

Think of how many Holocaust movies have been made vs. how many slavery movies. Slavery lasted 223 years while the Holocaust lasted 12.

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Positive-Avocado-881@reddit

I see you’re from Idaho….that explains it lol.

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handicapnanny@reddit

There's strangely been a rise in anti semetism in the past 10-15 years or so

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isthis_thing_on@reddit

Teacher: we've got the whole chapters on the Jews coming up in the 1930s and 40s, let's talk about the other guys for now.

Probably

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boodyclap@reddit

Usually whenever we talk about immigration from Russia, Poland, Germany, or even Portugal and Spain, it's more often than not also a story about the Jews from those countries coming over

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Comfortable_Cow3186@reddit

We also don't talk about how the US hated Jews during the early 1900's. During the rise of the Nazi party many Jewish ppl realized what was happening and where the country was heading, and they tried to flee to the USA. The US literally turned ships of Jewish ppl away and made them go back to Germany, where many died when the Nazis fully gained power. There is a famous photograph of a bunch of Americans at a Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden, around the beginning of the 2nd world War. We only started caring once Pearl Harbor was attacked and we joined the war. All of a sudden we were "the good guys" saving them, even though we literally didn't give a shit just a few years earlier.

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South_tejanglo@reddit

There were a lot more in the south than people realize. Not a ton. But still more than people realize

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Particular-Cloud6659@reddit

I just looked. I had no idea there were that few. There's like 1500 in all of Mississippi.

When you come from somewhere with a lot of immigrants from all over, you dont always really realize it's unique.

Im in Mass and I went to a Jewish preschool and so did my son, in a different part of the state.

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South_tejanglo@reddit

There used to be much more than there are now. I guess a lot of them left. And i wonder if some of them might have married the local Christian Anglo whites, so their descendants might not even know they are part Jewish.

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Particular-Cloud6659@reddit

I think it was because of white cappers and the Ku Klux Klan. The terrorized them and burnt their farms. Working under Jews they had a bit of independence. They werent terrorized by the owner of the farm and well, they burn the Black farmers out. The Jews moved to other cities.

Blacks were barely paid so it's not like they had money to shop at a merchants anyway.

Off to NO.

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South_tejanglo@reddit

That would absolutely make sense.

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Voc1Vic2@reddit

The photography of Jacob Riis, who documented the realities of tenement existence in New York during the Progressive Era, brought wide attention to Jewish immigration.

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LostSailor-25@reddit

Probably because Jews were included in most of the groups you named.

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TEG24601@reddit

A lot of it has to do with the primary identifier of immigrants being their nation of origin, not their ethnicity or religion. That only gets brought up when talking about the jobs they took or the businesses they started, unfortunately usually the stereotypical ones.

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Physical_Advantage@reddit

I think it depends on where you are, I am from Chicago and there are a lot of Jews here so its definitely talked about here

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EonJaw@reddit

Interesting question. I notice the Census Bureau "does not have Jewish as a Race or Ethnicity category." The American Community Survey does not collect data on Religion, so it is not there either. "You can view ancestry data for those born in the country of Israel," but obviously that's not what OP is asking about.

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machagogo@reddit

Because generally speaking they are lumped in with the nations they came from. Germany, Poland, etc, etc.

We don't really speak about Catholic immigration either, rather Italian and Irish, or Hindu rather Indian.

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SnooRevelations979@reddit

I haven't noticed the omission. A lot of cities had huge numbers of Jews. They were fleeing pogroms in Eastern Europe.

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ProfessionalFirm6353@reddit

I feel like Jewish immigration is often discussed. Even this year, two films (Brutalist and A Real Pain) featured in the Oscars were centered on Jewish immigration/diaspora.

But I think what differentiates Jewish Americans from other immigrant/diaspora groups in America is that Jews don’t really have a “country of origin” to identify with. Especially if we’re talking about Jews whose ancestors came in the late 1800s/early 1900s. They came from the ghettoized shtetls in Imperial Russia or the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. Once they came to America, they made a concerted effort to reinvent themselves as Americans.

I think that’s different from other “Ethnic White” groups that still identify with Ireland or Italy, even though no one in their family had lived there for four generations. Or post-1965 non-European immigrant/diaspora groups who still have close relatives in their country of origin and visit there frequently.

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Several_Bee_1625@reddit

Is it possible that Jewish immigration gets lumped in more with the particular nationalities of the immigrants?

The topic might also be something we're more embarrassed to talk about and acknowledge, since there were pretty big anti-Semitic movements in U.S. history, not to mention specifically turning away persecuted Jews.

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Adept_Thanks_6993@reddit

It is, it's just very concentrated.

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SavannahInChicago@reddit

Jewish people continue to be a scapegoat in most countries.

Also history is usually taught in various countries with a nationalist lense. You will find countries want to promote history that will endear them to that country. But you want to keep that scapegoat handy. You do not want to humanize Jewish people just in case.

Lastly, support for Judaism is very new, especially in the US. During the holocaust Americans were not very sympathetic and a very low number supported their immigration into the country. And I’m sure as you could tell from the last few years how easily conspiracy theories about them spread.

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TrapperJon@reddit

It's covered in NY as part of religious freedom as a concept in the US was in New Amsterdam when the Dutch decided the Jews couldn't be kicked out.

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blipsman@reddit

American Jews came from all over... earlier waves from Germany, later waves from Russia, Poland, Romania, etc. I'd guess for statistic purposes they're just lumped into immigration numbers from those countries and not broken out and grouped by religion?

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Wolfman1961@reddit

You hear about Jewish immigration, too. Especially those from Eastern Europe.

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_DAFBI_@reddit

No noticing allowed

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katrinakt8@reddit

Of those, I only recall learning about Jewish, Irish, and Italian immigration. Frequently around the Jewish holidays you hear about Jewish history and culture in school.

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Arleare13@reddit

I'd imagine this is regional. It's certainly talked a lot about where I live.

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UnknowableDuck@reddit

Even in Upstate NY we learned a lot about the Jewish immigration/diaspora. This maybe regional as you said.

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That_Mountain7968@reddit

A few reasons. The numbers pale in comparison to the number of Germans, Polish or Italians, and they were mostly geographically centered around New York. Which is where it's also quite common to hear about it.

You won't hear about it in some tiny town in Texas or Oklahoma, because the people who built those towns are mostly German and maybe a few Swedes.

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redditisnosey@reddit

I don't think Jewish is listed as the country of origin for any immigrants so there is that.

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madogvelkor@reddit

It's not ignored in the greater New York area. A lot of it also gets bundled in with other immigrant groups. A lot of Russian immigrants in the 19th century were actually Jewish. I knew a Jewish girl who said her ancestors were Russian immigrants rather than saying they were Jewish immigrants. Though the part of the Russian Empire they were from is currently in Ukraine.

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nwbrown@reddit

It's talked about a lot. But there are about 38 million Irish in the US, 45 million Germans, and 17 million Italians, vs about 7.5 million Jews. So it makes sense that you hear more about those groups.

There are more Polish and French descendants than Jews but you hear much less about them.

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Calm-down-its-a-joke@reddit

What are you some kind of anti-semite?

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Derwin0@reddit

Probably because there have been Jews in the US since before it was founded with no huge waves like there was with Italians, Irish, and Chinese.

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Altruistic_Role_9329@reddit

I’m puzzled why you referenced late 1800s and early 1900s. There have been Jews in America since the 1600s. One large early community was in Charleston, SC.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Charleston,_South_Carolina

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p0tat0p0tat0@reddit

Speak for yourself. I heard about it quite a bit and had dozens of books about the immigrant experience of Jews.

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macoafi@reddit

I would think because it wasn’t one big wave like you see with other nations. I have a friend whose family goes all the way back to the New Amsterdam days, before New York. Every wave of European immigrants included Jews.

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kmikek@reddit

They were running out of planet to settle in and came to new york. They didnt get accepted right away, just like everyone else, but they used humor, and a special self depricating style of comedy to convey a message to the gentiles that they were foolish and only posed a danger to themselves, which quelled fears of any sort of threat to the establishment.

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Particular-Cloud6659@reddit

I think it's talked about a lot but they didnt have waves that settled towns and states as farmers and miners.

They were more often merchants and a group of merchants dont go settle in one area. They were peddlars tailors &silver smiths.

They really stay in the city, or find a market to open a store

They were commonly an owner of a mens furnishings store (clothes store) because of the history of being tailors.

But no one is saying so Alma, Nebraska was settled by the Swedes and that one Jewish guy.

They were a big part of a most towns out west, but people are talking about cowboys and miners - not the guy who sold them their gear.

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Easy_Potential2882@reddit

There are way, way more Irish, Italian, German, Polish etc descended people in America than there are Jewish people. Jewish influence on American culture is less broadly distributed than those peoples. But they are highly influential in certain specific ways, for example on our food: hot dogs, particularly hot dogs served on a bun, were pioneered by Jewish immigrants from Germany.

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Kevincelt@reddit

It definitely is in my experience, with it being talked about along with immigration from other parts of Eastern Europe and other areas with large Jewish populations. Like it was a solid large migration wave along with many other groups in the late 1800s/early 1900s. My town is also around half Jewish so it was very very well known growing up in my area.

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Shmeepish@reddit

Jews have been seen as a stateless entity in diaspora for a looooong time. They never really got afforded the luxury of assimilation and acceptance where they would end up. There’s a reason Jews are so genetically related whether they emigrated from Germany, France, Eastern Europe, Russia, Turkey, Morocco, etc.

It is also an important part of understanding how they have consistently been the “other” scapegoated for any contemporary issue, and why people are so susceptible. They were seen as Jews living in xyz place, not xyz-ians who happened to practice a different religion. This pattern for over a millennium also created a culture of sticking together as a group, and reinforced the idea of identifying as a diaspora.

They were a group exiled from their homeland a long ass time ago who are still genetically similar to one another despite being spread out over time.

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BaseballNo916@reddit

We learned about it in history in school and I feel like people definitely bring it up, however I grew in an area with a significant Jewish population. Maybe you’re just not around a lot of Jews?

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thatisnotmyknob@reddit

Never been to Brooklyn?

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SpaceCrazyArtist@reddit

Because our immigration is typically by country not religion

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AccreditedMaven@reddit

Fiddler on the Roof checking in

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Lifeboatb@reddit

I had that damn “biddy-biddy-bum” in my head just this morning!

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811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit

That certainly name-checks the USA as a destination Jews moved to, to avoid pogroms.

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DwarvenRedshirt@reddit

Same reason we don't really talk about other religious migrations in our history.

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Meilingcrusader@reddit

It's talked about sometimes. I imagine this may be a regional thing. We didn't have as much Jewish immigration to Boston, but in New York there was a ton. Here you'll more likely hear about the Irish and the Italians and maybe Chinese. Not as much about Jewish immigration but also not as much about Germans or Scandanavians who mostly settled more in the midwest. Immigration patterns were somewhat regionalized

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AbbyBabble@reddit

I think it’s talked about. Heck, Don Bluth made an animated film about it, An American Tail.

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for_dishonor@reddit

If Judaism is referenced, it's usually after nationality.

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wvtarheel@reddit

I remember hearing a lot about how the polish, german, and other country's immigrants were part jewish and brought their own different set of customs to communities where they settled.

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811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit

I'm a Brit, and I know enough about it. Maybe because I'm Jewish.. saw an American Tail as a kid, know about the Jewish immigration through Ellis Island into New York, the spread to California and helping establish Hollywood's movie industry..

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tee2green@reddit

I think it gets its fair share of coverage in line with the population numbers. Let’s say approx 5% of immigrants were Jewish during a time period, then about 5% of the discussion is about Jewish immigration. I don’t think there’s much oversight or undersight to note.

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Good-Concentrate-260@reddit

What lol? There are plenty of museums, thousands of books. Jews are seen as like the American immigrant success story. Literally any book I’ve read about immigration during the Progressive Era talks about Jewish immigration. Even in your own post you say “there are many famous American Jewish immigrants,” and yet, “nobody talks about them.” How could they be famous if no one talks about them?

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I_Hate_Reddit_56@reddit

Are you talking to Jewish people?

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The_Ninja_Manatee@reddit

I ran youth groups for a synagogue in Miami Beach for years. The students learned about Jewish immigration to the U.S. both before and after the Holocaust. They met with Herb Karliner who was on the MS St. Louis as a teenager. He was sent back to Europe and survived in France until eventually emigrating to the U.S. Then, we took a trip to NYC and visited the Tenement Museum, Ellis Island, and many of the oldest Jewish businesses in the city.

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TheExquisiteCorpse@reddit

I’m curious where in the country you’re from because growing up outside NYC I definitely learned about and hear about the history of Jewish immigration much more than Scandinavian or Scottish immigrants. I guess maybe because it was more localized. Even today around half of Jewish people in the US live in New York. At the height of Jewish immigration around 1905 they were settling in basically a handful of Northeastern and Upper Midwest cities and that’s it. Big cultural impact in NYC and Philadelphia plus Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh etc to a somewhat lesser extent. But anywhere else I guess it wouldn’t be that relevant.

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