Ammo | TheaterFire

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Kaos9mm@reddit

Law enforcement ammo is a better deal.

The “law enforcement” part is for branding purposes

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Pravus_Nex@reddit

Also generally they are 50 count instead of 20...

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Always gives your lawyer the "its literally the same ammo the cops use" argument if you have to defend yourself. Too many prosecutors have used fancy ammo as their argument that the defendant was "looking to shoot and kill people"

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Designer-Might-7999@reddit

yup. The one dude went to jail over his dust cover

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Da1UHideFrom@reddit

The only case I can think of where a dust cover was in the discussion was the shooting of Daniel Shaver. One of the cops had "You're fucked" on his dust cover, but they found it was only a policy violation and they weren't allowed to mention it during the trial. The cop was acquitted.

TL;DR: No one went to jail over a dust cover.

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Designer-Might-7999@reddit

So who has gone to jail just because of the ammo

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Da1UHideFrom@reddit

No one has gone to jail just because of their ammo selection. But it doesn't mean the prosecutor won't try to use it against you. There is the case of Harold Fish. Where his ammo and caliber selection was questioned.

The firearms investigator said that Fish’s gun — a 10mm — is more powerful than what police officers use and is not typically used for personal protection. And the ammunition Fish used to shoot Kuenzli three times, called “a hollow-point bullet,” is made to expand when it enters the body.

But the case didn't hinge on ammo selection. Fish was convicted in 2006, sentenced to 10 years, then exonerated in 2009.

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ErikTheRed99@reddit

The whole Harold Fish case is a good example of how fucked our legal system is, and the only good thing that came out of it was his exoneration in 2009. If things were right, that fucking prosecutor would be charged. I think politically charged prosecutors are one of the most dangerous parts of our legal system, and the fact that that whole shebangle can exist is concerning. Any prosecutor found to persue an innocent man for political, personal, or similar reasons should be charged with equivalent of double the charges they persued, at least. Michael Lessler, the prosecutor who tried to argue that 10mm hollow points were intended for murder, on a fucking hiking trail. A trail with potential aggressive wild animals. One of the jurors voted guilty because of the argument that hollow point bullets were made to kill. A juror which, if they voted not guilty, could very well have kept Fish from losing 3 years of his life. The Harold Fish case is one of the most terrifying cases in the reality of self-defense shootings. You could be doing everything right, and some schmuck will argue the littlest things to manipulate the uninformed into putting you into a jail cell. "Police officers don't carry 10mm," no, but some park rangers do, and they do because of the risks of the wilderness. "Hollow points are designed to cause as much damage as possible, that's murderous intent," they're also designed to stop a threat quicker. If an attacker suffers fatal injuries, but still kills the person they're attacking due to the bullets not incapacitating them, that's an extra unnecessary death. "Well this person added this item to their gun, so that means they were looking to kill someone." No, this person added that optic/flashlight/laser to their gun as a force multiplier, to ensure that a gunfight goes their way. You don't really need force multipliers against a single, defenseless person, but in a fight for your life, every force multiplier can contribute to you getting out alive.

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The_Paganarchist@reddit

I had never heard of that case. I just started the rabbit hole. And that case is a fucking travesty.

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Bovaloe@reddit

Wasn't that the cop that was yelling conflicting instructions at the dude then killed him in the hotel?

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Western_Ladder_3593@reddit

Dude yelling and shooter were 2 separate people

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JamesRawles@reddit

And he didn't go to jail for it, in fact, he got his pension

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ProxySoxy@reddit

Yes, and then he "retired" so he could claim a pension, claiming he got PTSD and needed medical treatment

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

That wasn't over his dust cover. Watch the video.

The cop executed a man who was clearly stressed and confused, who was on his knees, trying to comply with the cops confusing orders.

That wasn't over a dust cover, it was murder.

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mf1609@reddit

I’ve been a police officer for 31 years. Investigated and an aware of many shootings. Never has the brand or type of ammunition been a factor other than being used to identify a suspect, ammo to a gun etc. Reloaded ammo is never a factor. What is a factor is whether or not the shooting is justified. If the circumstances determine lethal force was necessary, it will not matter what the bad guy was shot with.

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trs21219@reddit

This is Fuddlore

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Siglet84@reddit

Can you site any cases in which this has happened?

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Dustoff_Medic@reddit

Yes

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Siglet84@reddit

That’s not citing a case.

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singlemale4cats@reddit

Then they can call you a wannabe cop who overstepped your legal bounds. I don't think it's worth worrying about because anything can be spun into a positive or a negative, depending on who is doing the spinning. That's where your lawyer comes in.

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RealSkylitPanda@reddit

i commented this because a coworker training to be an instructor told me this and got downvoted to hell… glad to know i wasnt crazy

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Locked_and_Firing@reddit

I agree 100% with this. In fact, my family attorney told me to follow what law enforcement use. Then, when it comes to guns, always assume that guns can be used in a defense situation, so one should always consider that

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C_IsForCookie@reddit

Between the 2 from Speer, one is +P and the other isn’t.

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Ok_Assistant_3195@reddit (OP)

I know the difference in +p and standard loads. I meant the LE version specifically. They have both LE and regular gold dot in +p and standard

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The_Paganarchist@reddit

LE boxes are just 50 round boxes. That's the only difference.

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ShinraTM@reddit

They used to sell a 147gr. +p load of the federal HSTs in 50 round boxes. I wish they still did.

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Crazy_OneF8S@reddit

IMHO, I prefer winchester 9mm white box hollow points, they are economical and can be purchased in bulk from places like SG......All those while they may have a smidge more performance the price difference is not worth it to ME. I am not a brand snob, I use what works, In a fire fight any of these can fail or win the fight, your best option is to be ready for a fight and never ever be in one.

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FrontEngineering4469@reddit

Law enforcement and regular are the exact same ammo just packaged in larger boxes and sold at a bulk discount. Unless you find a killer deal on regular boxes its usually better to purchase law enforcement boxes because the cost per round is usually less than half that of regular 20 round boxes.

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Galen_Meric@reddit

If I remember correctly, the LE version (of HST) has sealed primers and that is the only difference... I may need to pick up some non LE stuff to check now...

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No_Composer_9594@reddit

What’s the difference more reliable?

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Galen_Meric@reddit

I believe it isn't sealed for reliability, but for longevity. The sealed primers won't let moisture in to mess up your powder.

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CWM_99@reddit

You usually get a bulk discount, but they’re the same bullets made in the same factory in the exact same way. I like to buy the law enforcement HSTs because bigger boxes of ammo are always better

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DenseHoneydew@reddit

Nothing. Just buy it

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AngriestManinWestTX@reddit

You can find them it’s just more difficult to find the Hornady 50 round boxes than to find 50 round boxes of HSTs or Gold Dots. Some places won’t sell any of the 50 round boxes without credentials, others couldn’t give less of a fuck.

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Big-Doughnut8307@reddit

Yea. I found both types of retailers back when I used Hornaday. Since I now use HST exclusively, I no longer have to go out of my way to visit the store that doesn’t care about credentials

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9EternalVoid99@reddit

Why would anyone even care, why would you need credentials to buy normal ammo

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Parktio@reddit

yep, this. the LE boxes are 50 rds, the others are 20rds. the only difference is quantity and price (50rd boxes cheaper)

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YERAFIREARMS@reddit

This is what I have in my carry pistols.

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Pork_Confidence@reddit

Check out hsl ammo for 9 mm. Great prices. Went through a thousand rounds and only had maybe four failures.

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falcon_2000@reddit

1st, that is objectively a bad failure rate.

2nd, Federal HST 124 grain and Speer Gold Dot are considered the absolute gold standard of Carry ammo. If you have the option, why would you carry worse?

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Pork_Confidence@reddit

So you're saying that a failure rate of 0.4% is bad? Dang brother, I wish I had your luck when it comes to ammo. The standards for most ammo producers is a goal of zero with an acceptable range of one failure out of 500 rounds. Considering the price of hsl, I'm good with two failures out of 500.

I feel like "carry" and " target shooting" are two different things, no? OP didn't delineate between their needs for either. As for carry ammo, I trust my own loads so I get where you are coming from in wanting to carry the best for self defense

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RandoAtReddit@reddit

You'd have better luck if you'd quit buying garbage reloads.

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Pork_Confidence@reddit

To be fair, I never felt like they were garbage. I'm understanding that the general opinion here is that two failures out of a thousand rounds is okay , 4 failures out of a thousand is not okay. I hear and understand this opinion and I appreciate everyone sharing it.

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falcon_2000@reddit

Yes, it is, 1 or 2 rounds out of 1000 is exceptable but 4 is double that. Running a P-10c, with Winchester white box ammo (one of the cheapest target shooting options), I can easily shoot 1000 rounds during a range day and have at most 1 or no failures at all.

Also I was making the assumption he was only asking for carry due to the 2 he asked about already.

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Pork_Confidence@reddit

You didn't have to downvote me there , I know you are frustrated but we're just having a conversation here. Wishing you all the best in your challenges

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falcon_2000@reddit

3/10 Ragebait

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TroutandGuns@reddit

My go to for training ammo

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Difficult_Pipe_991@reddit

I’ve tried most of these. The federal pictured does have more noticeable/deeper cut lines for expansion. No idea if this makes them expand better but my eyes think so.

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Glocked86@reddit

The HST does a really good job expanding for me, even at slower subsonic velocities.

Pic of 147gr HST I shot suppressed into ballistics gel.

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Difficult_Pipe_991@reddit

first federal pictured

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Glocked86@reddit

Vista wants the 50rd boxes to be sold LE only. They didn’t care till a few years ago, then they cracked down on it.

You can get deals on the 50rd boxes online though, they’re way cheaper than the 20rd boxes.

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