Giving up flying. DUI/MJ
Posted by Unhappy-Ostrich7445@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 172 comments
Recently I got arrested for a DUI misdemeanor(I know I am a piece of shit for putting myself and especially others at risk). I have remained sober since and plan to as nothing really good comes from alcohol. About 9 years ago I had a different charge before I even began flight training for possession of marijuana in a vehicle infraction. I think it’s time I throw the towel and forget my chances at ever making it to a regional yet alone a legacy. I’m 27 have a ppl instrument and commercial. At this point I’m thinking I would never be able to make it because of the poor choices I have made. So to all the aviators out there best of luck to you. I hope you guys end up where you want to be and I mean that as I have tarnished my dreams.
OtterVA@reddit
It’ll all depend on whether or not you can maintain a first class medical. If so, regionals will look at you 5 years after adjudication of the charge (if not otherwise dismissed).
Fit-Bedroom6590@reddit
It would seem you not famous for making good choices. Fighter pilots say it best when they say; "You eat what you kill."
NoJackfruit8226@reddit
Regional CA with 2 duis and a failed dot test. I’m in HIMS program and my HIMS pres said my case is vanilla. If I can get back into the pit (hopefully,) you can make it in. DM if you have more questions. You’re not a POS by the way, that’s the addiction talking.
FringeActual@reddit
You aren't the first. You won't be the last.
Repeat that to yourself when you start heading down that dark hole... I might have it on good authority it helps, a lot, after it sinks in.
Your life isn't over and neither is your flying career... you just put an obstacle in your path you didn't need. In the meantime use your new environment to evaluate what is really going on around you and figure out your options.
It's never a "problem" until you absolutely can't rectify the situation - only then is it a problem. And when we are here we make a list of everything going on, cross out what we can't control, and start with the things we can.
Loads of aviators and industry professionals have done what you have done and much much worse. You aren't special in that regard however what you choose to do from here is entirely up to you.
And as far as feeling absolutely gut punched over this and replaying the moments in your head leading up to getting pulled over: wishing you would have done something different - if only to go back in time and change it... recognize that only those that have been in your situation know you aren't actually a piece of shit but just made a series of choices - the last few of which you were inebriated. It doesn't make you a bad guy... your life got in it's own way and it stung.
Take a beat with all the dreams you had about how things were going to be better with some legacy airline and focus on yourself and what you should actually be controlling. I find it is in "the desire to live better" is when we are able to cut through all the bullshit and we actually start making better decisions for ourselves. Our habits change: we go to bed at a reasonable hour, actually work out, we eat better, ect... the desire to live better is kind of neat in that you don't need some scheme or road map with some end-goal that you believe that once you achieve it you'll suddenly have everything you wanted. All those things you want are the byproduct of the desire to live better.
This business about your future is as unwritten as the words you will use tomorrow. Don't get in your own way again but cutting yourself off to a potential future you might like to have by "deciding" what it's not going to be with insufficient information to have such a definitive opinion. Just as well this new path might actually be the path that makes you happiest, presently unbeknownst to you.
Goals: The constant pursuit of short-term goals. The finish line is for the birds and the do-nothings. Your goals should be the very next thing you see in front of you without any regard to the next. When you accomplish that goal, set your next one with the next most immediate task in front of you. The byproduct of this goal-setting race is the finish line - it's not the objective - and you'll be able to carry FAR more momentum along the way.
Get copies of every stitch of paperwork, class slips, anything signed or dated, and any evidence related to your cases - all of them - I'd recommend it in triplicate. Document and store this in a safe place. It will be hard to relive it but you have to. Take advice from others who have been down this path and adhere to their do's and don'ts. Continue to put one foot in front of the other and it won't be too long before you'll find yourself on a path to vindication you never expected to be on. Half of any battle is going to come down to paperwork and the obstacles will melt away the better said paperwork is tabbed, highlighted, collated, laminated, labeled, color-coded, and indexed. Next to no one does and when opposition is confronted with someone who does they give up pretty quick. When they don't you'll have the arsenal of pieces to play and subsequently own the board, in relatively short order I might add.
These feelings you're having are reflective of your life and your recent experiences. The self-destructive thoughts and behavior you also might be exhibiting stem from components in your life that are still unresolved. Make a plan and identify the very first goal - execute.
It is my hope it won't take you very long to find others in your life who have been through this(and whatever else might be going on), and that you can begin to heal this part of your psyche.
You are NOT alone. And while you're at it remember:
You are not the first. Nor will you be the last...
Keep Moving Forward.
Same-Village-9605@reddit
Go fly for the cartels instead
Rictor_Scale@reddit
Based on recent promotional videos here in this sub-reddit slight occupational risks of: arrest, sucking chest wounds, water-boarding, flying into a mountain at night, and never returning. Benefits include $12,000 per flight, but you have to be on call 24/7 and bring-your-own-plane.
BillySpacs@reddit
Yeah the dude said he basically made $150K-$200K a year and all the cartel pilots (like pilots everywhere) were complaining it’s not near as good as it once was and they’re hoping for a revival in their industry
SpartanDoubleZero@reddit
See that’s why you gotta go civil airpatrol, get the alphabet boys attention. They contract you through a shell company that’s now in your name, you carry out the alphabet boys orders in strange exotic places, then you bring back your own cut. You gotta be playing both sides of the coin if you wanna win every time.
Still gonna end up dead in the front seat of your fancy caddy with some extra breathing holes in your head at the end tho.
kpli98888@reddit
Barry Seal?
SpartanDoubleZero@reddit
Bingo. If you’ve read the actual accounts of what he did, it’s actually much more crazy than Hollywood made it out to be. Must’ve been one hell of a ride.
OSVR-User@reddit
I'm sorry, what? Did a cartel pilot do an AMA?
BillySpacs@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frCOwf9UL1g&vl=en
someone posted this the other day. Pretty interesting watch (about 20 minutes) because the whole cartel pilot of the 70's (cocaine cowboys, american made, et al) is really glamorized versus the reality of it today being downright depressing. It basically dudes living in, what we would consider, squalor who risk their lives everyday to make just enough money to support their family and buy drugs and prostitutes
BedBustinTV@reddit
Video is private now
kpli98888@reddit
soy el fuego que arde tu piel 🗣🎵⛓️
Aviator506@reddit
Just remember: you're not paid to look in the boxes!
4Sammich@reddit
I flipped a coin, it was tails so I looked in the box.
Obligthrowaway2142@reddit
r/unexpectedfuturama
thrfscowaway8610@reddit
Joanna Southcott says that you should look in the box.
Mostly-airworthy@reddit
Is it a time of national crisis in England? Are all 12 bishops on board to meet to open the box?
thrfscowaway8610@reddit
W.H. Smith has just closed down, prawn-cocktail Wotsits are no longer being manufactured, and Ipswich Town still has a chance of being in the top flight next season. I think that's as apocalyptic as things need to get.
ltdtx@reddit
Solid advice , also bad , but solid nonetheless
BlueFetus@reddit
Actually I think it’s more of a powder
AerialEntity@reddit
Not if it’s the good shit 😉
Bakugo469@reddit
Damn you watched that Vice vid for sure
Same-Village-9605@reddit
Actually my favourite vice vid hands down is the one about the ex soviets who flew their ownerless planes to Africa and started running cargo. Awesome documentary
Russian Pilots of the Congo
https://youtu.be/epYiIMl4W4U?si=1DZUJFfjOO3gDvQG
554TangoAlpha@reddit
Post your videos on Instagram please
Substantial-Sir-7880@reddit
Don’t give a up a DUI isn’t the end of the road, you can still make a living as a pilot. Like a lot of guys said airlines are probably out of the question but not completely unobtainable. There are still lots of awesome flying opportunities available.
fountainsofvarnoth@reddit
Sorry buddy, but smart move.
BrianBash@reddit
I had a DUI when I was 20 and a couple weed tickets. That was 22 years ago. I’m not a piece of shit, I was a dumb kid in a band.
You’re not doing yourself any favors with the ruminating/woe is me, I know this all too well. You’ve already decided how the future will work out. Stop it, that isn’t healthy.
Pick yourself out of the gutter, go work a side gig, save money, get your criminal records expunged, build yourself a good track record of work and positive relationships and nothing is impossible.
I have my flight school and I’m a part 91 pilot for a local family. Everyone knows about my fuck ups, it’s how you carry the scars that define you.
Good luck!
LongBeachTrijet@reddit
An expungement doesn’t mean that one is unburdened from disclosing such info in a background check for most employers, especially airlines. Omission of such information is lying and is grounds for not getting hired. If one somehow makes it past the background check, gets hired and such information is revealed later, that is grounds for immediate dismissal….even at a unionized airline.
BrianBash@reddit
I must have missed the part where I said that expungement will unburden you from disclosing any thing.
Sure, gaming licenses, real estate licenses etc. all have to list dismissed cases. It’s just life advice for someone dealing with shit.
LongBeachTrijet@reddit
Why didn’t you suggest expungement?
BrianBash@reddit
Because if he wants any job he can say he’s never been convicted? Not everything is airline jobs, FAA jobs, jobs where you need to disclose everything, arrests etc.
Do I still disclose my DUI on my medical? Yep, because they have the record of it. Weed tickets? Sure, they have record of that too.
An expungement allows to say you never been convicted on like…a shit ton of jobs that use 3rd parties for background checks. Also, it allows you to show Canada that you have been rehabilitated and can enter the country again since they don’t allow people in that have had DUI’s.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
I too WAS a piece of shit. Glass house, white Ferrari, living for new years eve. Sloppy steaks at Trufonis. People can change though. We're not pieces of shit.
Future-Penalty-1390@reddit
Sloppy steaks?
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
They're really good.
Wojtkie@reddit
Watch “I Think You Should Leave”
ur_upstairs_neighbor@reddit
Oh yeah, that hair slick back real nice
A_Squid_A_Dog@reddit
You think that's slicked back? That's pushed back!
HoraceRadish@reddit
They can't stop you from ordering a glass of water.
TybotheRckstr@reddit
THIS GUYS USED TO BE A REAL PEICE OF SHIT!
https://images.app.goo.gl/PkN7sGzMhJ6xZ6nV8
LongBeachTrijet@reddit
May I suggest you read Flying Drunk, The True Story of a Northwest Airlines Flight, Three Drunk Pilots, and One Man’s Fight for Redemption by Joseph Balzer. He was a crew member on Northwest 650, the flight in which the CA, FO and FE were legally drunk. After serving his time in prison, he worked to get his certificates and went to American in DFW and asked to speak to the Chief Pilot. They let him, he told his story and long story short, he was hired.
Sure, it was a different time. But that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t try…if that’s what you really want.
LongBeachTrijet@reddit
Sorry…replied to the wrong post
GoofyUmbrella@reddit
I always think people who make mistakes like this but then pay their dues come out a stronger person on the other side.
It’s unfortunate that we live in such an unforgiving world. I wish you the best of luck.
No_Result1959@reddit
I mean its not about unforgiving, its about safety in an industry where safety is everything. There is a reason rules are in palce and although I feel for OP's situation, it is not due to an unforgiving world, it is due to the consequences of putting other people and himself in danger due to a dependence on alcohol, while having priors as well. He can own up to his mistakes, but that doesn't mean he gets free from the consequences they carry.
GoofyUmbrella@reddit
How many pilots have done it and haven’t been caught?
Valid__Salad@reddit
That doesn’t mean that there should be no repercussions for those who do get caught. I’m not trying to shit on OP… I think he still has a chance given he takes the right course of action here, but you kind of have to understand that breaking the law limits your potential for success, especially in this industry.
If flying is truly something you want to do for a career, good decisions have to be made inside and outside of the flight deck. Again, I think OP stands a chance. He’s 27, he’s got plenty of time to right the ship.
GoofyUmbrella@reddit
I understand that. I said once he pays his dues
Aviator506@reddit
I had to give up on my dream of flying too, albeit for medical reasons. Regardless of how it happened though, it still sucks. If you want to stay in aviation though, you can try looking into dispatch. It's as close as you can be to flying without being in the cockpit, just food for thought. There's a lot in aviation that isn't being a pilot.
12kVStr8tothenips@reddit
Also A&P, Flight Attendant (if you’re after the travel and flight benes), ramper, admin/corporate. I talked to a guy from Iberia airlines that said he went admin on purpose and rose a lot faster than all his aviation friends in school and still got flight benes and got paid better with a more consistent schedule.
spiderfightersupreme@reddit
Unfortunately if they’re in the US, they also cannot be a flight attendant for many airlines with a DUI. It disallows entry to some countries.
Gigantic-Micropenis@reddit
Fortunately for him, having a DUI is almost a requirement for an A&P
MirSpaceStation@reddit
Exactly and you'll make just below a pilot, all other positions are a joke financially
MrScottBeckman@reddit
This isn't true. Lots of people on /r/cabincrewcareers claim this, too. You just need to take the actions necessary to gain entry Canada.
12kVStr8tothenips@reddit
This person could fight to get it expunged too….
AltDS01@reddit
Not all states allow it, and even if they do, it would be years after completion of the sentence that they could ask for it.
Expungement for an OWI here in MI has only been a thing for 4ish years, only for a 1st Offense (number 2 makes neither expungable), and you can't start the process until 5 years after the completion of the sentence, including probation. Even then the judge could say no.
Headoutdaplane@reddit
Airlines are out of reach for you. But Alaska, now Alaska, oh Alaska the home of DUI pilots, pilots with beards, and overall degenerates...the great land is calling you.
Florida_Flyboy@reddit
Ain't that the truth!
bwahbird@reddit
I work with some guys wo got a dui and still fly, idk about the marijuana charge but you can still have a good career flying with a dui. Probably not airline, but there are still jobs out there that will overlook a mistake
Darth_Heretic@reddit
When you’re done with the pity party and if you can still keep a medical and afford flight time, keep flying. You don’t know what the fuck lays ahead of you.
Take it in the spirit given.
Cheers
Mispelled-This@reddit
There is no keeping your medical after a DUI. It is automatically revoked, and you have to go through HIMS to get it back.
Darth_Heretic@reddit
The only part worthy of this discussion is the part where he gets his medical BACK.
Future-Penalty-1390@reddit
Love this response. It is true and good.
burnheartmusic@reddit
Ya, quite the sob story
danggilmore@reddit
“I know I’m a piece of shit” uhhhhh clearly you don’t but it doesn’t make it any less true.
KaptainSet@reddit
Well, I’m going to tell that it’s definitely not impossible to get a job in aviation. It’s going to be very hard to make to the airlines, but again, not impossible
themcfarland1@reddit
Listen to Roger reeves podcast. His stories are awesome.
Could also probably fly for some bands. They make poor choices too.
fatpat@reddit
I would highly recommend visiting /r/stopdrinking. Great community of supportive people.
Comfortable_Store237@reddit
DUI driving ends lives and tears families apart. Take that in for a moment while you pity yourself over how it’s all about you.
When you’re done, consider this. There will come a time when those charges don’t matter anymore. Where will you be? Will you have given up on your dreams of flying and be working somewhere else thinking, “What if?” That time WILL pass. Don’t waste it.
Fix yourself. Go join the national guard, hold down a decent job while you’re stateside, in the time it takes for airlines to consider you as a pilot, you’ll have completed the contract anyways and have benefits and veteran status. Most importantly, keep flying.
SmithKenichi@reddit
I will never understand why the Reddit flying community always stands in opposition to objective truth when it comes to driving under the influence.
ImminentDebacle@reddit
Maybe "It takes one to know one," rings rather true around these parts?
SmithKenichi@reddit
Probably..
Ok_Possibility_6877@reddit
My recommendation is get your CFI. If you have spent the time and money to get your commercial and instrument why not get it. Get a good HIMs AME and get on testing for 2 years. You’ll get your medical back in a few months once on testing. Then you can at least work as a CFI n weekends when working in another industry while making money as a CFI to recoup some of your investment. Then in a few years who knows the market may open back up a bit and the shortage may allow you to get hired. But no need to completely give up flying IMO. As long as you want to keep flying and have truly changed for the better I think you’ll be able to to.
brongchong@reddit
You can also work as a CFI/ CFII with no medical as long as the pilots you teach are licensed as a PPL and they are the PIC.
I once had a CFII instructor who had no medical, he had either diabeeeetus or epilepsy (controlled via meds); can’t recall.
ImminentDebacle@reddit
Curious, how did he manage to get CFI?
Was he diagnosed afterwards (after he flew and obtained the certs?)
SoCalGuy999@reddit
So nine years ago you got popped for smoking weed in a car. And now recently at 27 (well into adulthood) you are driving around drunk. Here’s the thing. It wasn’t your first time driving drunk- just the first time you got caught. You don’t belong in aviation, sorry.
Unhappy-Ostrich7445@reddit (OP)
No I wasn’t popped for smoking weed. I was popped for having it as (I was underage to legally carry it) and before I was even in aviation as the post says…but thanks for your input.
SoCalGuy999@reddit
Aviation falls under the jurisdiction of the FAA (Federal government). According to them, weed is a schedule I drug. I’m surprised your AME didn’t put you thru a bunch of hoops unless you didn’t disclose because you were a minor. That will show up on your FBI background check later.
Unhappy-Ostrich7445@reddit (OP)
Under the AME sheet it’s if substance abuse within 2 years at that time I was already clean and I haven’t smoke since then either but regardless on Iacra form I did disclose because they ask for motor vehicle action and continued to do so no issues.
live_drifter@reddit
Good plan.
Jwylde2@reddit
If you’re serious about going 100% abstinent from alcohol and all mind/mood altering substances, go to rehab, get with a HIMS AME immediately for sponsorship and monitoring. Pee in a cup for two years, do a HIMS psych evaluation, start attending AA twice weekly, and start attending group aftercare. You’ll get a HIMS special issuance medical certificate in 2-3 years and be on your way.
Prize-Bird-2561@reddit
If he was less than .15 BAC then most likely HIMS isn’t even required. He will still need a HIMS AME to do his medical, but won’t need to do any of the other parts of the program (rehab, monitoring, aftercare, AA, etc).
If he did not blow at all that makes it a little more challenging and probably better to just wait 2 years before reapplying for his medical.
Mispelled-This@reddit
You absolutely have to do HIMS unless you only had one incident that was at least 5 years ago where your BAC was below 0.15%.
Prize-Bird-2561@reddit
Eh... sort of... HIMS is for Alcohol Dependence. DUI does not equal Dependence, but it will most likely qualify as Abuse. The criteria for Alcohol Abuse is a 2 year look back, so even though more paperwork is required because it's less than 5 years, if he waits 2 years without another incident then he'll most likely be deemed to not have an Abuse issue. (Reference Part 67.107.b.)
If he wants to get a medical now then he might need to do 2 years of abstinence and monitoring to get a Special Issuance for Substance Abuse, but that is different than HIMS (treatment, meetings, etc) for Substance Dependence. The SI for Abuse is 2 years and then he can go back to the normal medical process. The SI for Dependence is more than likely for as long as they hold their medical certificate. Either way he'll need to see a HIMS AME and that person can guide him through the process.
brongchong@reddit
This is 100% the way if you still want to fly for a career.
maninDyellowhat@reddit
He’s right you know. Don’t give up but def gotta get structured and stop fucking around.
Britishse5a@reddit
You just happen to get busted. There are a lot of pilots that do the same, they just haven’t been caught yet. Doesn’t help, just the facts.
SoCalGuy999@reddit
I don’t care if that Uber is $20K- no reason to drive drunk today.
ltcterry@reddit
“Recently arrested”… and “sober since” is not much of an accomplishment.
How often did you drive drunk between weed nine years ago and “recently arrested”?
Hope you get this figured out. Good luck.
Urrolnis@reddit
Yep. Usually drunk drivers aren't snagged the first time they've driven drunk.
SoCalGuy999@reddit
Thank you…. Dude gets popped for smoking weed and driving. And then years later he gets a DUI. Unless he’s extremely unlucky, he’s done it countless times.
StPauliBoi@reddit
The average is close to 100 times
Mispelled-This@reddit
According to FHTSA, approximately 1 in 700 drunk drivers gets caught.
brucebrowde@reddit
I wonder how they measured that.
Urrolnis@reddit
That I did not know. Wow.
StPauliBoi@reddit
Yeah. It’s wild. It’s one of the reasons that personally, I think the FAA should be zero/very very very low tolerance for DWI/DUi. Many people say things like it’s just one mistake.
No. Sorry. Mistakes happen on accident. If you’ve been arrested for DWI/DUI, that’s just a culmination of likely years of poor decision making that demonstrates both very poor judgment, but also a substance abuse issue.
There are people who have one DUI/DWI and that’s their “wake up call” and they never touch another substance again, but that’s their exception, not the rule.
I think 1 DUI 10 years ago with demonstrated sobriety and treatment since then, and if you get one while you have certs, that’s the end. Bye.
Urrolnis@reddit
On one hand, I agree with you. Just like a lot of people look to sex offenders for retributive justice. Cut off the guy's dick/balls, put them to death, life in prison. Sounds great. Nice and clean.
But just like the guy who slept with a girl who said she was 18 but is actually 16, or is just outright falsely accused, you've got people who would've blown a 0.06 but maybe failed a field sobriety test which are already super subjective. I cant say the ABCs backwards when sober, let alone drunk. Or have bad balance due to inner ear issues and struggle to walk a straight line. Or was given a DUI because they didn't throw their keys in the trunk while they slept it off in the bar parking lot, clearly not having driven.
Point is, our justice system is absolutely infallible and as nice and clean of a solution as "one and done" is, our system is too imperfect to apply justice and absolute punishment.
StPauliBoi@reddit
That's why the roadside tests are not definitive proof, because, as you mentioned, they are highly subjective. Additionally, the roadside breathalyzer is not typically able to secure a conviction on its own due to many different issues. The only things these do is provide probable cause for a warrant to obtain a blood sample for ETOH testing, or a breathalyzer in the station that has been calibrated and has records and all that fun stuff.
This is a commonly repeated urban legend that many people invoke, but is pretty much never used in practice. Like you said, it's totally unreasonable to test someone on something that they would be unable to do (or the majority of people would be unable to do) while sober.
This is why prior to administering field sobriety tests, they ask if you have any medical issues that would impact your ability to perform the tests. If they do, then the tests are modified with the ones they're not able to do likely being skipped, and then the breathalyzer if needed - > warrant -> blood testing, etc.
Maybe, maybe not? What stopped them from driving? That they passed out before they drove? IDK, that's a really really weak justification/defense. There's only one reason to get in the driver's seat, and that's to drive the car.
If they wanted to sleep it off, they could have hung out in the backseat.
You're right, the justice system IS fallible, but has many methods to protect people who are not guilty.
brucebrowde@reddit
I don't know in what world you're living in. In the one I'm living in, people get screwed for simplest things left and right. What "should" be happening is way different what "is" happening. We have a convicted felon as our president for God's sake! That's not "eh, it's not perfect", that's a disaster of a system.
Like look at your comment. If you were on a jury, you'd have pretty much convinced yourself to vote "guilty". Yes, in vast majority of cases, it's exactly like you're saying. People way too rarely switch from being repeat offenders to angels. However, you'd be a fool to not understand that's the product of the system.
You don't get good people when the system is screwing innocent ones every step of the way.
Mispelled-This@reddit
That’s why the FAA is so hard on DUIs: sure, while it’s possible that it was a one-time thing and you just had bad luck, the odds are that you’ve driven drunk hundreds of times before.
But if you embrace the suck and get sober, you are statistically a lower risk than the 99% of pilots who are still drinking.
SoCalGuy999@reddit
At the end of the day, it’s a job. There are better jobs. If you love flying you can still do it. But drugs and alcohol don’t mix. At 27 you are well into adulthood. There are consequences in life. Many of us have done stupid things and just didn’t caught- but you did. At least you are young enough to find your way.
ButterscotchNo3281@reddit
Arrested or convicted? If you can get a good attorney and get it dismissed you’ll have better chances. But I wouldn’t necessarily throw in the towel. I have a DUI arrest on my record (case dismissed) and still got hired at a major. My old chief pilot at a 135 had 2 DUI Convictions, sure he couldn’t go to a major but still got to run a 135 operation. Time heals a lot of things, just keep your nose clean. The market will eventually come back and there will be a high demand for pilots and that’ll be your opportunity.
Tall_Cod4914@reddit
You will have to go into the HIMS program, and you will have an uphill battle and probably get a lot of no's before you get a yes from an airline. It may take years, and while the door is closed for now it is not locked.
Coolgrnmen@reddit
If Independence Day taught me anything about flying, it’s that crop duster pilots are drunks.
Ok, in all seriousness, how recent was this in relation to your pilot training? Obviously putting you and others at risk is a BIG wow factor, but it’s even more difficult for me to imagine a pilot with a commercial taking that kind of risk with the career on the line literally every time you step into a car under the influence. I mean, what kind of decision making goes into that? And it really makes me question whether you’d be willing to cross that line when it came to flying too.
But that’s likely too harsh because just about everyone who drinks will drive after drinking (just not to the point of inebriation), and the thought of touching aircraft controls with even the most mild alcohol in my system scared the shit out of me. Things happen when flying and I want all my wits about me.
Unhappy-Ostrich7445@reddit (OP)
How recent I obtained my commercial last December so about 3 months. And no in all my years of training I would never and have never touched an aircraft with the slightest amount of alcohol ever.
Coolgrnmen@reddit
You didn’t need to answer it because I meant it only as what others wonder. You arguably would have said publicly that never would you ever drive a car drunk…
brucebrowde@reddit
The daemons always come out at the worst time.
HoraceRadish@reddit
You can't blame the companies for wondering the same thing. If you would drive a car while drunk, who is to say you wouldn't do the same with a plane?
Mispelled-This@reddit
There is still a path forward if you’re serious about recovery. Come join us over in r/FAAHIMS.
Purple-Caterpillar57@reddit
Reddit pilots are some of the most sinister and pessimistic people in the industry, DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM! You absolutely fucked up but you absolutely still have a future in aviation ahead of you IF you’re willing to leave alcohol/drugs in your past and press forward. It’ll be a long road but it really does come down to how badly you want it.
GoofyUmbrella@reddit
For real… seen more negativity around here than anywhere else.
zealous-wolf@reddit
Sound judgment is a cornerstone of aviation safety. You've demonstrated inability to make good life decisions. This industry is not for you.
Good Luck.
flyingburner420@reddit
Oh get off your high horse, I'm sure you've never done anything wrong in your life
stephen1547@reddit
Data shows that people arrested for DUIs have statically driven drunk over 200 times before getting caught. It's very likely that this was far from a one-time mistake. Instead it's probably a long pattern of making absolutely dogshit decisions. Not sure about you, but I don't want these type of people anywhere near the front of an airliner.
If that's some controversial opinion, I'll take the downvotes.
Future-Penalty-1390@reddit
Could this be a Canadian teetotalling helicopter pilot?
stephen1547@reddit
I'm a Canadian helicopter pilot. We literally all drink. I just don't drive afterwards.
HoraceRadish@reddit
That's one of the things about professional licensing. You don't get to fuck up twice.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
There’s plenty of other flying jobs. They don’t pay as well as 121 but it beats working for a living.
4Sammich@reddit
So much this. I know guys who are working pilots that make 70-80k and have hella better QOL than a 121 pilot. And as a 121 pilot I have days of major jealousy because of it.
Still not giving up the pay tho.
Future-Penalty-1390@reddit
I know many non-121 pilots who make 3,4,5,6, and 7 a year. Downsides are they don’t get to take the employee bus from the parking lot and don’t retire with 29k hrs. If you like flying, press on (you are not getting any younger)
But stop with the risky actions and take care of yourself.
4Sammich@reddit
Oh I'm so high up in seniority that there's no way I'd bail now aside from a Powerball win.
downwindsavage@reddit
Gg’s to bro
71272710371910@reddit
I don't think you won't be able to get to the airlines. It'll be a process of proving sobriety and possibly enrolling in HIMS upon hire. It won't be easy but it's not impossible.
Few_Party294@reddit
Dude you never know. I’ve got a weed charge and I’m a PIC at a Part 135. I know there are lots of pilots at Legacies with DUIs. Just keep your nose clean and keep building hours, the hiring market will return someday.
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
That sucks, I have a few charges but all were dismissed and I was not guilty of any, none pertaining to drugs or DUI.
To any student reading this, learn from this guys mistakes and don’t touch a steering wheel after drinking, my rule is to only drink at home at night when I’m not going anywhere.
Best of luck OP. Look into dispatch maybe
Were you convicted?
Unhappy-Ostrich7445@reddit (OP)
The Mj one yes convicted as I was teenager 18 didn’t know anything about aviation. The DUI not yet convicted I got a lawyer. Thank you.
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
Beat that DUI case and get your house in order.
InternationalSort714@reddit
Eh if you can beat the dui charge then the prognosis here isn’t as bad. Even if you lose and it becomes a conviction, if you can afford to continue flying then why not? Even flying in the pattern as a cfi is better than most jobs. Not as much pay, but more life fulfillment. The best thing you can do and it seems you are all ready doing is stop consuming alcohol. Also address why you were drinking in the first place. Just because someone stops the act of drinking doesn’t change them from within. If you can accomplish the change from within that had you drinking in the first place then you’ll be able to have the career you want in aviation eventually.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
I won't say it's not possible. It's possible you might be able to do HIMS. My concern is that you already had a misstep and then went and drove drunk after being in your flight training already. Depending on what you blew I'd say it is at least worth checking with a HIMS AME. Honestly there are pilots who've done just as bad at majors. But it is a major hurdle and of those who continue flying after two events most end up at less desirable operations. If flying is really your dream you need to go full sober right now. I do not have experience in the intricacies but maybe someone who does with chime in.
If you had to do HIMS already then it's another story.
brongchong@reddit
At majors, it’s a fork in the road. Either HIMS or get fired.
m4a785m@reddit
If you got arrested for it recently, how many other times did you drive drunk and didn’t get pulled over for it? Scary
brongchong@reddit
You done messed up, A-a-Ron!
You can still fly, but it will be a LONG journey.
You only have one hope: Rehab, join AA, then you need to keep a CLEAN record for TEN YEARS from the date of your FINAL conviction. After ten years, you can indeed get hired by a regional. You would have to join a HIMS program.
You would need to work with a HIMS AME as well starting as soon as you get out of rehab.
It’s a long shot, but still doable at your age.
In the meantime, you really need to pull your head out of your a$$ before you kill someone.
AerialisticFiction@reddit
Keeping a clean record over time will mitigate this. You’re still young. I got a DUI at 31, now at 41 I’m flying big jets and making 6 figures. You will have fewer options than normal for the next few years but if you turn it around and keep your nose clean you’ll be fine. Biggest obstacle for the next few years will be Canada, as they do not permit DUI offenders to enter unless you apply for temporary residency over and over. And with our national relations deteriorating it will probably be even more cumbersome than it was a few years ago. Eventually you can get that Canada shit permanently fixed and the world of aviation will open up for ya.
AborgTheMachine@reddit
Things are possible if you're willing to enter the HIMS program and get a proven track record of sobriety behind you. It's good to own up to your mistakes and to realize their implications. The HIMS program can be a bit of a bear, and it does require you to jump through quite a few hoops, but some of the HIMS guys I've flown with are the sharpest pilots and best to hang out with on overnights (because they don't just want to go drink somewhere).
If you're willing to put yourself in the position to let them tell you no instead of telling yourself that you'll never be able to do it, I think you'll be a lot happier with yourself. I know a guy who got a DUI right before wrapping up his CFI training, and he's got a CJO at a major now. Time and sobriety does smooth things over.
Despite what this sub might have you thinking, regional airlines really aren't all that bad relative to other jobs (especially if you love flying). As a regional captain you'll be pulling in $200k / year, which is more than 2.5x the average household income for the States. Sure, hiring is rough right now, but the industry is cyclical. Give it another few years and it'll be a totally different environment.
As a side note, dealing with the ramifications of your own actions can be tough. It's important to realize their weight, but don't beat yourself up too much. You can't learn and grow as a person if you're too preoccupied beating yourself up about the past.
Best of luck to you out there, feel free to send me a PM if you have questions about the HIMS program / medical process.
im___back@reddit
Giving up is dumb dude. You’ve got your commercial ticket. Work with an ame and see what your medical will bring in terms of issues.
Stupid to give up if you’ve worked this hard and made it this far.
in-limbo69@reddit
I say keep at it as long as you can hold a medical. You can always spin it in an interview how “you’ve turned your life around etc..”.
jaymoneygas@reddit
Not sure what exactly the circumstances are surrounding it but you should absolutely fight it in court and possibly plea it down to reckless driving (still a terrible look but not as bad). It would be hard to find work flying, but not impossible.
average757guy@reddit
I mean u fucked up yeah but don’t hang it up. I know a legacy FO with 3 DUI. Now back in the day it seems like DUIs were more common or something. In this hiring environment you’re not going anywhere but in a couple years you could get a decent 135 gig if you build your resume. A career in aviation isn’t always 121, Godspeed soldier
chinnydagoat@reddit
zero sympathy. most definitely wasn't your first time driving drunk, just your first time getting caught. enjoy gas station night shifts or whatever you find yourself working instead
Specialist_Way8022@reddit
I wouldn’t give up my friend. Contact an aviation lawyer and see what your options are. I’m sorry for your circumstances, I too struggled with marijuana reliance through flight school, and definitely got behind the wheel when I shouldn’t have. Fortunately have never gotten caught and those days are behind me. There are pilots who have gotten DUI charges but go through the FAA’s program to still maintain a medical (it will cost a lot of money and time) but if you are still passionate about it and want to do it, you should still be able to. Blue skies and tailwinds my friend!
Historical_Kiwi_9294@reddit
Hate it for you but honestly yea. You made some bad decisions.
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
Am now 22, Turning 23 in May. I was close to getting my ppl when I realized I had made a mistake on my Medical.
I was arrested and convicted of a DUI (Misdemeanor first offense) when I was 17. When filling out my medical since I took a plea I didn’t think I was convicted until I asked my lawyer and he told me I was. I reached out to a family friend who’s a Captain at United and said “Dont sweat it it’ll probably be a slap on the wrist I know guys who are getting DUI’s in the industry and turn out fine”
when I had sent a letter informing the FAA of my mistake they reached out and sent a LOI (Letter of investigation) and after a year of investigation said I need to surrender my medical and I can try again in one calendar year.
(I probably wont try again.) I dont want to go to a special AME, and spend thousands just to be told no. Or have to do a lot of bullshit every year or whatever to keep my medical, Just doesn’t sound worth it. The FAA is absolutely ass.
I dont drink and drive, I make good decisions and am aware it was a terrible mistake I made when I was a Minor (not even an adult) and yet it still haunts me with jobs to this day.
HoraceRadish@reddit
Would it haunt you if you killed a family while driving drunk? Keeping people with those problems away from the plane is a great thing.
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
Have you ever made a mistake? Or are you almighty and perfect as you sit here and judge. I was a 17 year old, A minor. Considered a juvenile actually.
People change and realize they were dumb and make mistakes. Grow up son.
HoraceRadish@reddit
Yet you wanted to blame the FAA for trying to keep drunks on the ground. You fucked up and it cost you. That's life. Don't blame others.
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
bahaha okay son. I’m sure you’re just as perfect as you want to believe you are.
HoraceRadish@reddit
I can get a job anywhere without a legal waiver... So I'm doing pretty well.
You seem very immature and angry. However, it was your decision. It's easier to blame the Admin who keep you out then to blame your own actions, I guess.
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
No, Not at all angry or sad. I’m actually a trust fund baby.😭 I just wanted to be a pilot for the hell of it and seemed enjoyable. It’s no worries though i’ll probably just take my dads company over. I’d like to think i’ll do pretty well myself. Cheers brother and god bless
HoraceRadish@reddit
Haha, I love that this is your flex. Daddy will save me from the duis (including the future ones.)
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
Hey, Daddy’s the reason i’m not too worried about it. Sometimes that’s the way the cookie crumbles. Cant help I was born into it but sure glad I was. your flex was you can apply without having to worry. My flex is I dont have to apply to places lol.
HoraceRadish@reddit
Because rich kids are famously happy and well adjusted. You really make me sad for you. I know you are trying to make me angry or jealous. However, I truly feel pity for you. I hope your future duis are not homicidal.
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
But i’m not gonna sit here and argue all day with someone who’s bitter. Have a good one brother, Cheers
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
Dont feel bad for me, Because I dont feel bad for me either. I don’t drink and drive? I guess you cant read either
SmithKenichi@reddit
You don't need to be "almighty and perfect" to avoid drinking and driving. It's just something that good people who care about human life do naturally. In life, there are many mistakes that cannot be recovered from. This is only difficult to understand for the participation trophy generation who enjoyed congratulations and reward for all their failures growing up.
Own-Sugar-4289@reddit
I forgot im on reddit with a bunch of mouth breathers and this is why I never comment. So a mistake you acknowledge was terrible and you shouldn’t have done should forever be in your past and you should forever be judged off that mistake you made in life? Even when I was even in the eyes of the law a juvenile.
SmithKenichi@reddit
Sometimes. That's the harsh reality of life.
I_love_my_fish_@reddit
Dispatch is probably the best option. You might be able to career CFI if you can prove you’re sober at a flight school that doesn’t really care much. Maybe run a flight school as well, if you have money for aircraft and a solid plan
I_Am_Zampano@reddit
Good riddance. Get your shit together
HoraceRadish@reddit
Would not want them at the controls if they drive drunk.
FujitsuPolycom@reddit
Stay sober, as you've seen, nothing good comes from it.
flyingburner420@reddit
Can you get the misdemeanor expunged? The MJ one is probably so old plus from your timeline you were a minor it likely won't bother you. But you've already got your commercial, so you can make money now! Work pipeline, maybe get your cfi and instruct part-time. And if you keep a clean record, time heals all wounds. You're only 27, in 5, 10, 15 years you'll likely get picked up by at least a regional, if not a major and have a good 20+ year career still!
SmithKenichi@reddit
Yep, flying isn't for irresponsible people who don't mind putting lives at risk. It's so easy. You just don't drive when you've been drinking. If you can afford a single hour of flight, you can afford 10 Ubers. I hope you never touch the controls again. You should be in jail.
Lanky-Rabbit8694@reddit
Yeah totally not over. Obviously going to be a bit harder than before but this Industry swings like crazy. If you can keep flying and keep your nose clean you’ll find your way to somewhere eventually
halfmilebase@reddit
27 is young enough to still have a chance. If you can keep a medical and somehow work your way up into turbine equipment then a low tier ACMI would hire you. Say you rack up 4,000 hours with 3,000 Jet and a downturn comes. You could get pickup up by a regional and flow to a legacy in your 40s. Just saying there is always a way lol
city_slicker__@reddit
If you love flying, you love flying. Life happens and just because this happened doesn't mean you should quit and feel sorry for yourself. Being better is the only way through. "There isn't a saint without a past, nor sinner without a future".
PhillyPilot@reddit
The marijuana charge from 9 years ago is probably not a problem, but the DUI shows a trend. You would probably need another good solid 9-10 years to come back
VirvekRBX@reddit
Dude I’m sorry. That sucks. You owned up to your mistakes and acknowledged what implications they have, not many people do that. Unfortunately it would be very difficult to find a job in aviation as a Pilot. Sucks that you got all the way to Commercial though :/
It’s always a little disheartening seeing this. But I wish you the best luck! Maybe try a different route in aviation, dispatch?
GoWalkADogJannie@reddit
You can’t say “I gave up” without saying “I gay”.
But in all seriousness yes it is going to be harder for you to get to a part 121. It doesn’t mean you’ll never get there.
Just food for thought
DinkleBottoms@reddit
I think it’s much harder to justify the poverty wages and HIMS program expenses when the light at the end of the tunnel is barely flickering.
TobyADev@reddit
Well I’m not gonna judge as that is shit. Sure, it’s of your own making, but it is shit
Hopefully you can get some help and work towards recovering, maybe in the future you can come back to aviation
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Recently I got arrested for a DUI misdemeanor(I know I am a piece of shit for putting myself and especially others at risk). I have remained sober since and plan to as nothing really good comes from alcohol. About 9 years ago I had a different charge before I even began flight training for possession of marijuana in a vehicle infraction. I think it’s time I throw the towel and forget my chances at ever making it to a regional yet alone a legacy. I’m 27 have a ppl instrument and commercial. At this point I’m thinking I would never be able to make it because of the poor choices I have made. So to all the aviators out there best of luck to you. I hope you guys end up where you want to be and I mean that as I have tarnished my dreams.
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