Why so few armoured doors in London?
Posted by FriedChickenBox@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 363 comments
Hello,
I'm italian and back home it's very common to live in buildings with many apartements. They range from basic to luxury buildings, especially in large cities.
A very common thing in these buildings, despite them having a first central door and then of course a door for every apartment, is that most tenants install armoured doors. Instead, in Uk I've lived in a plethora of terraced houses, with street level door, which are never armoured, but have just the usual latch lock. Why is that? Living in London the crime level is much higher than say my small city in Italy, but regardless in italy most people put an armoured door.
I've many thories on this:
- in italy people are too scared of burglars. In London they are too little scared.
- uk is a culture of insurances, so they rely on that.
- why would you armour the door if you have street level glass windows that can be easily broken.
- the period door is nicer, the armoured one is depressing, who cares if they steal all your s..t
- Italian thieves are more apt than uk ones that can easily be stopped with a latch lock.
Ideas?
Additional_Ad_3044@reddit
If a would-be burglar saw an armored door, their first instinctive thought would be "there's some really valuable shit in there" and then use the window.
Specific-Map3010@reddit
I've lived in some grotty parts of the UK and occasionally seen terraced houses where all the windows and doors have grilles and the door has a fat sheet of steel screwed into it.
I always assumed they were dealers (which does attract burglars! Lots of portable valuables that won't get reported to the police.)
the_merkin@reddit
That normally means repossessed and empty, and the owner seals it to stop squatters, dealers etc.
OriginalMandem@reddit
Not with the unsubtle CCTV over the doorway đ¤
Queen_of_London@reddit
It usually still does mean the house/flat isn't occupied. Nobody's going to remove and replace a screwed-in steel door every time they come home.
Planet-thanet@reddit
Front grilled then that's most likely repossessed or court order, county line trap houses get court eventually. Back of terraces do get barred in high crime as its easy pickings, but what are they going to get??
ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit
Exactly. It's Glastonbury tent theory - if you put a padlock on your tent zip, you're signalling to thieves that your phone and laptop are in your tent, and they'll cut it open.
ploopitus@reddit
Used to trade at Glasto. One year we fucking killed it and made a lot of cash, which I'm guessing someone noticed. One of us left to go out back to London with all our takings and I bunked off for the evening and took a load of shrooms.
Popped back to the tent to collect something, just as the shrooms kicked in and it took me a good ten minutes to work out that Yes, our tent had been torn apart and all the contents searched and No, it didn't particularly matter, so don't let it worry you, ploopitus.
I can still remember how hard it was to piece everything together and work out how to use my phone to contact the others to let them know, haha. Took me fucking aaaages.
Dnny10bns@reddit
Been there before. Trying to work out where I was in Amsterdam tripping on shrooms. Google maps is quite difficult to navigate when you have no concept of time or direction. Pretty certain I gave up in the end after walking around the same area for what seemed like forever. I ended up in a massage parlour. A legit one, just to chill the fk out till I could see properly.
ploopitus@reddit
:) Mine was back before smartphones, so I was just spastic-thumbing a dumbphone to try and communicate my modicum of distress with my friends.
I do know this much though - the streets of Amsterdam are not a great place to get high on shrooms though, lol. Me too..!
Toon1982@reddit
And that's the excuse you're sticking with for being in there.... đ
r_coefficient@reddit
Well I'd put a padlock on to prevent drunken randos to end up sleeping inside :D
ImperitorEst@reddit
Bit of cord and a complex knot is just as good if you don't get too hammered yourself đ
greenygp19@reddit
Apparently this was also a thing with ring-doorbells for a while too. Burgulars would target houses with ring-doorbells because they assumed that only someone with valuables to protect would get one.
I think by now they're mainstream enough that it doesn't have the same effect though.
defylife@reddit
except they'd have no idea it's armoured given they are designed to just to look like a normal door.
VFiddly@reddit
If they're designed to look like normal doors, how was OP able to tell that there aren't many in London?
tgy74@reddit
Is that true? I'll be honest I've no idea what the OP means when they're talking about armoured doors, and now you're telling me that there is no way to tell them apart from normal doors anyway.
So maybe, in reality, I'm the only person in the UK who doesn't have an armoured door?
aitorbk@reddit
In Spain and Italy they are designed to look the same as the rest of the doors in the building. But if you are an expert you can tell by the quality of the finish and trim that the door means business. .
Mrslinkydragon@reddit
The bigger the lock, the bigger the target
CentrifugalMalaise@reddit
The longer the note, the more dread.
aitorbk@reddit
The trick in Spain for steel doors at least is that it looks exactly the same as regular ones (armored being the standard), it just has a wood veneer to look normal.
A friend of my dad didn't do this, put a super safe steel door that looked the part to protect his dental practice with the refurbishment of the place.
The thieves used a truck hydraulic jack with a wood plank in the wall in front of the door. Door and part of the wall went down,massive damage. The place was empty... But the thieves believed "something really valuable must be inside"
tikkabhuna@reddit
When I had my locks replaced, the locksmith said that anyone trying to get in would likely break the window instead. In a house thereâs no point adding a big door if you can just go around it.
Meincornwall@reddit
You need to make your house slightly more secure than your neighbours houses is what a policeman told us post burglary.
My mate suggested an alarm, he said no point they're ignored.
He said get a dog, any dog. Doesn't need to be big.
No one breaks into a house with a dog in it.
That was thirty years ago, I've never been without a dog or burgled since.
PrinceFan72@reddit
Noisy german shepherd owner, neighbours on both sides (houses) say they love it because from outside, front or back, you can't tell which house the dog is in. Neighbours opposite have been burgled a few times, our three houses have never been touched.
SaltyName8341@reddit
I have found living in a shit area works
13oundary@reddit
Wish that was the case where I'm from, fuckin poor robbin the poor round here...
SaltyName8341@reddit
That's shit and they're scum for it
13oundary@reddit
Yeah, need to sit these fuckers down and make em watch a bugs life.... xD
Salt_Bison7839@reddit
Rather be burgled.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
They were trying to tell you to shut your dog up.
PrinceFan72@reddit
No they literally said the opposite, we were apologising for any noise
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
They hate you so much.
PrinceFan72@reddit
haha
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
This is exactly the response I would expect from the kind of person who owns a noisy dog.
PrinceFan72@reddit
If you say so.
wings22@reddit
Honestly I'd rather be burgled than put up with a neighbours noisy dog constantly.
AlexAlways9911@reddit
Yeah, colour me sceptical by the idea that anyone's neighbours are coming round to say how delighted they are with all the barking because of a perceived security benefit
PrinceFan72@reddit
Itâs not that constant, usually in response to the ring doorbell being triggered
lurcherzzz@reddit
I also have not been burgled.
Metrobolist3@reddit
Furry xenomorph
lurcherzzz@reddit
She does like watching the Alien movies, Alien resurrection is her favourite, she is a monster.
purpleduckduckgoose@reddit
Is that a dog or a werewolf?
lurcherzzz@reddit
According to her, she is the queen of all things that walk, crawl, swim or fly. I believe she would send a mere werewolf on its way as it begs for forgiveness.
Blackleatherjacker@reddit
Is that a Irish wolf hound đ they look terrifying but are big babies!
lurcherzzz@reddit
She's a Scottish Deerhound. A friend of mine bought her from a breeder who warned him the dogs were bred for hunting and would be a handful. She was, still is, and now lives with me and my husky x lurcher. She is an objectively terrible pet, but she fits in with us. The picture is her normal reaction to anything that inconveniences her.
plant-strong@reddit
Neither have I
Interesting-Voice328@reddit
Is that of the Rabbit of Caerbannog bloodline?
plant-strong@reddit
This is Eduardo, mystical guinea pig guardian
Designer-Computer188@reddit
If he's mystical he not only proects your house but your soul and spirit then? đđ
Interesting-Voice328@reddit
Just as murderous then.
blueberryjamjamjam@reddit
I saw that Monty Python movie about your pet. It didn't end well for the intruders.
dickwildgoose@reddit
Damn those little pigs can squeak.
Muttywango@reddit
Nobody burgles the home of a hellhound.
lurcherzzz@reddit
Not twice anyway.
LAUK_In_The_North@reddit
Years ago, a person I know got burgled. The dog just ignored them.
What made it worse was that he used to take the same dog as a guard dog when he was called out to school alarms in the middle of the night...
Meincornwall@reddit
I've always owned English Bull Terriers & decided to "test them" one night.
Opened the door whilst putting a super deep voice on & grunting "You get the TV Bert & I'll get...
Was as far as I got.
Both dogs immediately attacked, far more rapidly than expected.
I had to turn & sprint for my life.
Whilst shouting random
"No" "Oi" "It's me"
commands.
Vaulted the front yard wall to complete my escape, finally.
Both dogs found it hilarious.
zephyrthewonderdog@reddit
I used to have an English Bull Terrier. Came home one Christmas, after a childrenâs party, dressed as Santa, big beard everything.
He stood at the top of the stairs teeth barred and came straight at me like a cannonball. Both kids were in bed. I ripped the beard and hat off as fast as I could. He aborted the attack run just before he hit me and was like âoh hi dad! I wonât rip your throat out then, got any biscuits?â
Had to have another drink to settle my nerves.
thx1138a@reddit
I like to imagine them doing a little doggy high-five. Both dogs found it hilarious.
Luckluck13@reddit
Bullies in friendly mode are a handful at best of time!
tonyferguson2021@reddit
guess they were pretending cos dogs nose can recognise their owners đ¤ˇââď¸
Meincornwall@reddit
It appeared to be a bite first, sniff later scenario.
Also it's a tiny cottage, it's 3 paces at most.
ShortGuitar7207@reddit
Dogs are easily defeated with food so it's only the fact that they are noisy which is a deterrent.
sobrique@reddit
Most dogs. But some dogs are noisy, and some are aggressive.
So why take the risk?
Trebus@reddit
I've got a relatively small greyhound bitch. Like all greyhounds she's utterly ridiculous, pathetically moody & hugely lovable.
But when she defensive barks for the house she sounds like a different animal, she sounds nasty & twice her size. As you say, how would a burglar know? Best security we have.
Meincornwall@reddit
A breeder I was once on the phone to had a visitor. The dog noise was deafening.
I asked, & he had 14 bull terriers living in his home. More in his kennels.
I joking said "You have no problems with burglars then?"
His reply of "How would I know?" made me laugh, then a bit afraid.
wings22@reddit
When I was growing up we had a cats in our house and we were never burgled. Time went on and eventually the cats got old and died, and after a few years the house was burgled. 25 years with cats = no burglary. 3 years without cats = done.
CalligrapherLeft6038@reddit
My cat growls at the postman.
PowerApp101@reddit
The burglars waited 3 years just to make sure the cats were dead...
TheBestBigAl@reddit
Or slightly less appealing.
I grew up in a small cul-de-sac (4 houses and 12 flats). Only one house had a burglar alarm, and it was burgled at least 4 times that I can remember. No other house in the close was ever burgled.
I can only assume that burglars saw the alarm and decided it must be the only house that has anything work nicking inside. That might have been true the first time, but the following burglaries wouldn't have had much left to steal.
Planet-thanet@reddit
or they did it once found the owners had something worth the bother and came back once insurance had payed out x4
HauntingTheVoid@reddit
I keep the front of my house looking shit for this reason. All my neighbours houses look nicer than mine and I like it that way
bowak@reddit
A big bonus of this of course is that you likely rarely ever see your own house from the front for long anyway
HatOfFlavour@reddit
I've heard people with lawns swear that guard geese work.
focalac@reddit
Worked for the Romans.
DatabaseContent8664@reddit
Absolutely this. A local scrapyard when I was a kid kept geese rather than the usual mangy Rottweiler. Never had any issues.
Yosarrian_lives@reddit
Have you ever considered if the Big Dog industry was behind all this.....
Meincornwall@reddit
I've just spent time considering if big burglary are to blame.
They have been diversifying their interests since cctv was invented.
I think, in maybe one of the most audacious moves ever, big burglary possibly created big dog.
Setting themselves up to declare big dogs the ultimate deterrent & to only burgle non big dog customers until they get us all.
It's the all time favourite protection racket, with a twist.
Reetgeist@reddit
I've heard of car burglars but this is a new one
pickyourteethup@reddit
I met a burglar at a house party once, I move in exciting circles, and he said not to make your house more tempting that your neighbour. Don't recycle laptop or tv boxes, don't hang tvs and expensive stuff in view of the street.
OkSpinach2113@reddit
Anecdotal but I used to work in insurance a while back. I easily processed over a hundred burglary claims while I worked there and I can count on one hand the number of them that had dogs at home at the time of the burglary. I definitely think a dog is a good deterrent
bowak@reddit
I like to have a very bright coloured lock for my bike that contrasts clearly with the frame in the hope that it's more likely to make an opportunistic thief skip past it without really thinking about it.Â
It wouldn't help in the slightest against anyone with an angle grinder, but then no lock would so it's just about hopefully shifting the odds away from me.
Only1Fab@reddit
In Italy theyâd break in regardless. People, dogs, cat, they donât care.
twobit211@reddit
thereâs an autobiographical novel from the 1920âs by a career criminal in the late victorian period called âyou canât winâ. Â the author was a professional safecracker and housebreaker throughout the united states and canada for decades. Â when asked, he said the best protection against burglary was a large dog. Â no matter how good a prospect looked, a large dog in the house was a no go
Icy_Obligation4293@reddit
Not only are alarms generally ignored, but if they do go off randomly (which happens on occasion), everybody in the area gets to see first hand that they definitely will be ignored. I've been robbed twice, both times happened a few days after my alarm went off.
Apidium@reddit
This. My small terrier scared off a burglar just by barking up a storm and waking up the whole house.
MrRedDoctor@reddit
In Italy, a lot of street-level windows will have grills in front of them for exactly that reason. Particularly concerned people may put grills even on above-ground floor windows
V65Pilot@reddit
Where I lived, in the US, we never locked our doors. My house was 1/4 mile back from the road, behind some trees, up a gravel driveway, so why bother locking doors? They could just kick them in.... We were never burgled. My friends claimed that just driving up the driveway gave the "There are people here who own guns, lots of guns" vibe. Just a little log cabin, back in the woods...... There was a sign on the gate, about halfway up the drive, that read:
"If you can read this, you are in range"
Yes, we did have guns. And dogs.
BlitzballPlayer@reddit
Something I've never understood (but granted, I've lived in big cities most of my life so I'm naturally biased) is why people wouldn't lock their doors?
Even if I lived in the sleepiest little village with the lowest crime rate in the country, it takes mere seconds to lock the door. And I just couldn't sleep soundly knowing that, technically speaking, anyone could just walk straight into my house with zero effort if I left the door unlocked.
Delicious-Resist-977@reddit
I lived out in the sticks for years, probably went ten years after losing the key for the front door without replacing it. Not everywhere is a crime ridden shit hole.
kudincha@reddit
When I lived in Scotland... If I locked my door then my dog couldn't get in.
V65Pilot@reddit
Broken doors cost money to replace. If they want in, a locked door isn't going to keep them out. Unlike the UK, in my area at least, thieves *generally* leave an occupied home alone.
BlitzballPlayer@reddit
But most thieves want to get in and out as quickly and quietly as possible. Barging a door down is incredibly loud and takes time, which a burglar would want to avoid. If you lock your door, you make it just that bit less likely that a burglar targets your house.
V65Pilot@reddit
*My area* This type of thing is very dependent on the area. Back home, you can't see my house from the street, so they will absolutely kick down a door if they think no-ones home and it's locked.
BlitzballPlayer@reddit
So I guess my point was more like if you're going to bed and not locking the door, I personally can't see how anyone could do that and feel relaxed haha.
But again, I am speaking from a city perspective where leaving your front door unlocked would be madness. Although, it seems so easy to do that I've never quite understood why everyone doesn't do it.
V65Pilot@reddit
I live in London now, I wouldn't dream of not locking my door, and I live in a quiet neighbourhood. I'll run out to the bins, or the car and leave it open, but it's locked the rest of the time. They made me check my guns at customs when I arrived.
Timely_Atmosphere735@reddit
Did your dogs have guns?
The-Scottish-Rock@reddit
Itâs America. Even the fleas on the dogs have guns.
Sxn747Strangers@reddit
And if they have any ticks.
Tick, tick boom.
V65Pilot@reddit
Tried, but, no thumbs, couldn't take off the safeties...... We did equip them with freakin' laser beams on their heads, but it got a little crazy around dinner time...
adamtrousers@reddit
There's a good business angle there for the American market: dog-friendly guns that can be fired without thumbs.
V65Pilot@reddit
Would definitely make duck hunting easier. Wake up, give Fido the shotgun, wish him luck, go back to bed.
Trips-Over-Tail@reddit
What else could a gun dog be?
TimeToNukeTheWhales@reddit
That makes a sound and alerts you. I'd not be able to sleep knowing that someone could have snuck into my house.
V65Pilot@reddit
Home invasion type robberies were rare in my area. Like I said, we had guns. Now, a house that's obviously empty....? That's why we had dogs, and there was always a car parked next to the house, even if no-one was home.
iguessimbritishnow@reddit
So you don't have armoured doors, but you have homocide instead. Top thinking.
V65Pilot@reddit
Every country has homicides. It's just easier in the US................(I wish I could say that was sarcasm)
MrRedDoctor@reddit
Don't take this as meaning Italy is more dangerous than the US and that there's more burglaries. It's just an extra precaution. We Italians tend to go a bit overboard when it comes to personal safety, whether it's personal, physical, health, or mental. I personally love the feeling of being able to keep my window open in an urban setting at ground floor without having to worry about someone coming in. If it's hot, you can also leave it open if you're away..
V65Pilot@reddit
I understand. I have an Italian friend, and they lock their front door if they are walking out to the bins. which are 100ft away. They live at the end of a small complex, and there is no foot traffic as it's completely fenced, one way in, one way out, at the farthest end from them.
intergalacticspy@reddit
I'd be more afraid of dying in a fire than of having a ÂŁ900 tv stolen.
aitorbk@reddit
Some bands break into your home while you sleep. You don't want that.
OkMathematician6052@reddit
Anyone famous or just local cover bands?
Fionsomnia@reddit
The Burgles - well known for their hits Eternal Flame and Walk Like An Egyptian.
MissingLink101@reddit
Nothing But Thieves
aitorbk@reddit
Cover bands you had never heard from! Can't recommend ;)
NoTopic9011@reddit
True that. I honestly think I would never get over the PTSD if I woke up in the middle of the night and found Nickelback standing at the end of my bed.
aitorbk@reddit
In my case, it could be pipers, even worse!
I know people who have woken up in front of guns/knives. Can't recommend the experience, it is horrible.
intergalacticspy@reddit
Some fires break out when you sleep. You prefer your family burns to death in a fire?
aitorbk@reddit
If I was living in Spain? Certainly would put bars. I live in Scotland, so no bars.
Mindless_Count5562@reddit
I went to Nantes for GCSE French exchange like, 16 years ago or some shit now and remember being wildly taken aback when the family fully blocked off all the windows with padlocked metal shutters at night time for security reasons.
orangecrush85@reddit
My family in France do the same thing, apparently as a requirement for their home insurance
Babunar@reddit
Yes! I had exactly the same experience in suburban Lille. Shop shutters down over all the windows at night. They didn't understand why I was so bewildered.
joefife@reddit
These things terrify me regarding fire
Mindless_Count5562@reddit
Didnât even think of that at the timeâŚ
pickyourteethup@reddit
You may take my life in a burning inferno but you'll never take my things!
twobit211@reddit
you and me also
flippertyflip@reddit
Even without a window, a wall isn't terribly hard to get through if you want it enough.
StingerAE@reddit
There were a spate of thefts of boilers and pipes from empty council properties in Coventry some years back. So the council invested in very secure boarding up techniques to windiws and doors to stop it.
The boilers still got nicked. They just sledge hammered through the wall instead. Cost the council more and took the house out of action for longer.
So they went back to wooden boarding up.
palpatineforever@reddit
also honestly most doors will break with a sledgehammer it is just a case of how many hits. Even the armoured ones mentioned in the post.
spammmmmmmmy@reddit
That might be particular to your house. In my building the door would go first because the entry wouldn't be visible to anyone on the street.Â
Necessary-Trash-8828@reddit
This is so fucking British.
KamakaziDemiGod@reddit
Plus security/heavy doors suggest you have something worth protecting, which can encourage people to find out what you have got. Granted it will only be an aspect it certain situations but I don't want my house looking more appealing to a thief than the neighbours houses do
South_Buy_3175@reddit
I used to fit doors and windows and we were always asked about how secure they were.
If someone wants in, theyâll get in was always the answer.
But thieves are opportunistic. Keeping your doors locked, windows latched and having cameras up discourage like 95% of attempted break ins because itâs never worth the effort.
oojiflip@reddit
Which is why I love having inch thick shutters on all the windows
IAdoreAnimals69@reddit
As per the world of information security, a sufficiently motivated threat actor will eventually get in, so what's the point. Here's your gigantic bill for an afternoon of 'consultancy', good luck.
McCretin@reddit
Exactly. With a flat thereâs usually only one point of entrance from the hallway, which is the door. Otherwise the burglar has to scale a wall (unless itâs on the ground floor). Whereas houses will always have windows onto the street.
icemonsoon@reddit
And with large shitty blocks of flats it is the people who have access to the communal area that need stopping
perpetualmentalist@reddit
đŻđŻđŻ
Friendly-Chocolate@reddit
Yep, your house is only as secure as its weakest point of entry.
The best safe in the world is being inconspicuous. Donât be a target, donât tell the world about all the valuables you own.
Friendly-Chocolate@reddit
Yep, your house is only as secure as its weakest point of entry. Everyone should invest in a good safe. Anything with monetary value that you couldnât bear losing should be put in it.
Additional-Weekend73@reddit
I live in the forested A.O.N.B. Parts of England. Thereâs a homeowner with a shotgun on the other side of the door. Funnily enough, no burglaries in our village in 20+ years. You city folk bring it on.
undertheskin_@reddit
Because break ins through the front door are incredibly rare. It's just not something that's needed.
butwhatsmyname@reddit
The only time I've been burgled I was in a first floor flat in a shit area, and the thieves smashed the whole door and door frame out of the brickwork and onto the hallway floor one Tuesday afternoon while we were at work.
The Yale and mortice locks were still locked. The door itself held. It was just that it was now lying on the carpet still in its splintered frame. The police said it was likely a "professional" gang because of the method, time, and a spate of others nearby the same day.
The guy that came to fix the door said that there are options to have a steel structure and frame built securely into the brickwork, and an armoured door fitted, but:
A) He wasn't sure the cheap, shitty construction of the building would be able to take it.
B) It was a LOT of money.
C) We were renting and it was going to be cheaper for the landlord to replace 7 smashed out wooden doorframes than to install one armoured door.
D) If it got badly damaged it could be extremely difficult to replace.
But it's the only incident I've ever heard of where burglars actually broke down a door. It seems to be really uncommon in the UK.
MaltDizney@reddit
Did they steal anything particularly valuable? Lot of effort to go throughÂ
butwhatsmyname@reddit
Low-end telly, three laptops (one of the dead and 12 years old), some crap jewellery, two scuffed iPods, a set of headphones. The total value of all the stolen items if sold definitely wouldn't have matched the cost of replacing the door frame and repairing the brickwork if it wasn't covered by insurance.
randomusername8472@reddit
Most burgleries are oppurtunistic too.
But there's security theatre at play here for places like italy. If all your neighbours have armoured doors, do you want to be the one house WITHOUT it?
South Africa is the most extreme example of this I've visited. Every house middle class is a miniature fortress and it's an arms race to have better obvious security than your neighbours because there are actually gun wielding home invaders who will pick the weakest targets.
Maybe for italy it's a hangover from the worser mafia days?
LowlifeTiger666@reddit
My old friend lived in Cape Town till he was 17. He used to tell stories of the amount of security they had and that him, his brothers and his dad all used to have at minimum a baseball or cricket bat next to their beds just in case
Current-Lynx-3547@reddit
Should see the inside of those houses in south africa. I have family that have security doors for their bedrooms. Big fuck off bolts and they pay for armed response. Private security company that rocks up with guns when you hit the nope button.Â
With how often people attempt to rob them. I am not surprised.Â
Toon1982@reddit
The toilet doors aren't the greatest though...
zone6isgreener@reddit
I'm not convinced those doors in Italy are much cop as the locks are often basic.
anabsentfriend@reddit
I used to be a CSI and went to hundreds of burglaries through front doors.
Almost always where the only lock was a basic Yale-type rim lock (with no mortise below). Very easy to slip or break glass door panel and reach in to unlock from inside.
FriedChickenBox@reddit (OP)
why?
undertheskin_@reddit
Because breaking down a door is very loud and draws a lot of attention and you are close proximity to other houses, people etc.
Genuinely never heard of someone being burgled by breaking in the front door - it's aways the window.
Doubleday5000@reddit
It happened to my mother back in the 90s (when crime was generally much, much higher but most people seem to have forgotten about it).
Converted flat in a big Victorian house. The battered down both the communal front door and ground floor flat door. Luckily they weren't in.
They replaced all the door with "armoured" ones. Security Banham locks and keys, the whole works,
She was burgled again a few years later. They used the scaffolding on the church next door, Climbed a huge distance over and broke in via the enclosed garden.
abovetopsecret1@reddit
Sounds like some friends, they have a very expensive high security front door, wouldnât want to try and get in through there, just hop over the fence and go in through the patio doors or the pretty basic rear door. Nowhere near as high security!! Always chuckle!
aitorbk@reddit
My rear door has a super secure cylinder and multi point locks. Also, they are double french doors, mostly glass...
mynaneisjustguy@reddit
Going through the door is not hard. But it is loud and draws attention if you arenât quick. But itâs incredibly easy, most doors in the UK are much like the rest of the housing stock; pretty shite. One good kick and the screws and the door frame are done. Luckily most thieves arenât into working for a living so they havenât ever examined or built or demolished a door. And why would you when windows are so much easier anyway?
abovetopsecret1@reddit
Interesting comment, have you seen the issues the police have getting in through the new plastic doors etc? Theyâre using disc cutters these days. Lots of noise for a burglar to make and a bit more than a âgood kickâ.
mynaneisjustguy@reddit
Coppers also havenât really built or repaired doors. Personally I would use a two foot crowbar, those plastic doors arenât really very tough to get through. But I work for a living instead, thieving would be way easier but itâs not really cricket is it?
turdor@reddit
those 5 point upvc doors are actually a pain to kick in... spoke to the police about it when my neighbors was burgled but he had a standard 1 point wooden door and I didn't even hear it happen.
icemonsoon@reddit
If the 5 points are engaged, most people just close it on the latch
Kitchen-Peanut518@reddit
They actually went through the front door at my granny's house. They smashed the porch door and then they must have forced open the front door somehow. I agree it's pretty rare though.
A lot of it seems to be opportunistic, like just trying doors and windows to see if they're unlocked. When we were burgled it was because housemates left the downstairs window open.
QGRr2t@reddit
No burglar is kicking in the front door. It takes literally a few seconds to snap the lock on a typical Euro cylinder, and they can just walk in. The first thing I did with our PVC doors was replace the frame screws for long ones, and swap the locks for Diamond rated, Sold Secure kitemarked ones with anti-snap, anti-pick and anti-drill. Our ground floor windows are security glass (i.e. won't smash). We do live in a city though, and there have been a lot of home invasions for cars in the last few years.
bopeepsheep@reddit
I was burgled this way, but my front door faced the back of the building, not the road. The genius (read: stupid/on drugs) burglar thought he was breaking into the back door of the business downstairs. They had bars on their windows. After wrecking my door, he stole carrier bags and ran straight into the arms of a police patrol who were receiving the radio report of my call as he ran towards them.
Kaliasluke@reddit
it happened in rural areas where the doors arenât so overlooked - my mum doesnât have neighbours and has been burgled twice, both times they kicked in the front door (sounds bad, but sheâs been in the same house for 40+ years and there was a 20+ year gap between break-ins).
StandardWizard777@reddit
Windows are much more fragile and accessible. No one really has armoured windows, or no ground floor windows.
aitorbk@reddit
A friend of mine in Spain put them. We were all quite confused as it was A LOT of money. But she didn't want metal bars.
And this is an issue. Burglars will think they are regular windows and smash them.
They will fail to enter, as they need a pickaxe/sledge hammer and some work, but now your ultra expensive window is damaged!
octobod@reddit
The front door is at the front, and typically visible from the street. A good place to get spotted (that a modern doors give a well equipped police raid problems)
Djinjja-Ninja@reddit
Because break ins through the front door are incredibly rare.
KeithMyArthe@reddit
I read a while ago that the vast majority of burglaries are still effected through an unlocked door or window. It was something ridiculous, like 75 or 80%
I wonder if that's changed much.
mikero23@reddit
This. Only the most psychopathic burglar will smash your front door down, way too conspicuous when your back window is open
Varvara-Sidorovna@reddit
During the summer of 2023 when it was so warm, burglars went down our street at 7 at night, knowing that everyone was in their back gardens having a barbecue, and had left their front doors open.Just leaned in and hooked the car keys.
They nicked about 6 cars that way, apparently
ThreeDawgs@reddit
Only run in weâve had with burglars was somebody trying their luck to get through the French doors in the kitchen. Even then they were just checking to see if they were unlocked before they moved on. I imagine thatâs the door most people forget to lock, especially if theyâre sliding doors.
Western_Squirrel_700@reddit
Break ins through the front door are very common. When you think about it, it's genius... kick the door lock in, walk in, shut the door behind you, and if a neighbour comes out to investigate the noise everything looks ok.
If a neighbour sees a smashed window, or someone climbing up a drain pipe, the police are called immediately
Otherwise-Extreme-68@reddit
Have you ever tried kicking a modern UPVC door in? Of course you haven't, genius
Western_Squirrel_700@reddit
Nope, I'm not a burglar, chump.
Otherwise-Extreme-68@reddit
How can you make the claim that it's easy to kick a door though then? Chump
Western_Squirrel_700@reddit
Hey I can see you're thick - and emotional - but try and think of your own insult.
Or are you signing your message "Chump"?
Otherwise-Extreme-68@reddit
Sorry dick lips.
Western_Squirrel_700@reddit
Attaboy!
2xtc@reddit
So why just make shit up that's patently not true?
Western_Squirrel_700@reddit
Well it happened to me, so I kinda know it's true. And another poster here said it has happened to them twice. And after it happened to me I did my homework and found out it's very common.
You lot are really daft. Lol, classic brits.
ImpressNice299@reddit
Trouble is, kicking a PVC door in is almost impossible.
nineteenthly@reddit
Both times we were broken into it was through the front door.
Fit-Return2142@reddit
My Italian boyfriend was horrified about this when he first came here. He's from Brindisi and everyone there has reinforced doors and keep them securely locked at all times, whereas most here don't even lock their doors during the day.
GodAtum@reddit
I installed a butter proof door at my house.
Toon_1892@reddit
Our historic culture has been one of a high trust society.
GooseMan1515@reddit
This certainly lines up with my perception of our differences as someone who goes between the countries. Italy has a much more recent history with organised crime. Bars on everything, reinforced shutters etc. It's cultural; these things are normal to Italians but make English people feel like they're living somewhere where these are necessary, as most of us do not grow up with walls and gates and locks everywhere unless we're from Surrey.
In rural England where I grew up, people barely lock their homes; and why indeed should they, as you say. It's just asking would-be robbers to make a more destructive entry.
46Bit@reddit
what's different about Surrey?
GooseMan1515@reddit
It's full of gated 'communities'.
Mail-Ninja@reddit
I have a similar thought on this regarding windows in the UK, as I grew up in South Africa, there are burglar bars on most windows. It's rather annoying, because I've been told I have to close the window in my office every time I leave the office.
A few places will have a regular door to the house, but have a security gate in front of it.
MeltingChocolateAhh@reddit
There's a lot to unpack here. A good question for r/AskEurope as well.
In the UK (especially a place with a reputation like London has), people are aware of criminals that are out to steal their stuff or harm them. Some people are scared.
UK is a culture of insurance, yes. Is Italy not?
I would not armour a door because what is the point? The window can be broken into. Or, they could just ram your door with a stolen car if they really want - not that I have ever known this to happen to a residence, happens to cash machines more than anything else. And, I wouldn't put bars on the windows because if there is a fire, I wouldn't be able to escape as easily.
And as for Italian thieves being more apt than British thieves, in general, maybe but you don't need to be intelligent really. The issue is proving who did it. Here, we have little faith in our policing because we rely heavily on CCTV. CCTV can be circumvented by simply wearing a mask, or by avoiding the cameras. Police response times are too slow.
To be a burglar in the UK, you don't need to be really clever. You just need to be nasty and desperate enough to do that to somebody. If the door is difficult to get through, go through a window. If the window is difficult to get through, try harder to get in because someone has something very valuable in that house.
Deterrence is how British people try to deal with burglars.
FollowingVivid5459@reddit
England has been a single state with few invasions for several hundred years and legal protection for property for the last 700.
TonyJPRoss@reddit
Sadism? What would you do with a burglar you caught in your home? Their body is your oyster, crack it open and see what's inside!
GavUK@reddit
I don't live in London, but my parent's house was burgled twice when I was a teenager. The first time they forced open the patio doors in the living room while we were on holiday, the second time (I think just a usual school/working day), they smashed a side window in the kitchen to get in, as we had added extra locks on the patio door so it couldn't be forced. Neither time did they get through the front door (but had secured the front door from the inside so we couldn't get using our keys.
mongrldub@reddit
Itâs because there are fewer Italians in London so we donât need them
Key_Effective_9664@reddit
It would be like the first two little pigs putting bars on their windowsÂ
lucylucylane@reddit
Because they are not needed
OriginalMandem@reddit
Up to a point, the more obvious security there is, the more it marks you out as a target. Especially in a terrace type scenario. Once you start heading into more affluent areas the home security increases exponentially. A lot of people are also shocked by the fact people park relatively expensive cars on the street. A lot of people's sense of security lies in the fact that all the houses look the same and if you're keeping yourself to yourself, there's nothing to mark your place out as being worthy of attention.
People will absolutely try and climb in through the window though, even if you're crashed out in the couch in front of the telly, seen that twice.
Kent_Doggy_Geezer@reddit
Personally Iâd love to have an armoured door, instead I have a solid wooden one, with 3 locks, and another one in the hallway with a 5 lever lock. I do have an exterior gate however, solid metal pillars. I⌠erm⌠might be a little paranoid đđđ
eunuch-horn-dust@reddit
My mum fitted one, she lives in a block of flats high up enough that the only way in is through the front door. Shortly after, she received a letter from the housing association saying she could only keep it in place if she agreed never to lock it when anyone was home because of the risk of them becoming trapped during a fire. Obviously she agreed but I could see health and safety being a deterrent for installing one.
commonsense-innit@reddit
no need for armoured doors when you have a shark infested moat and draw bridge
NYCRealist@reddit
You have a lot more organized crime in Italy.
Willeth@reddit
In the UK we tend to install uPVC doors with multi-point latches. While they only lock with a single lock, engaging all the latches with an upward pull of the handle is very secure - they are much harder to kick in than a single-latch door and the only upgrade an armoured door would give is to be harder to break through the door itself. As you rightly say that's an unlikely method of entry when you can just break a window.
Many doors that are not uPVC have a standard latch lock but also a mortice lock. These are sturdy and provide slightly less, but still adequate, protection.
But above all, burglary is often a crime of opportunity. You don't get targeted and have burglars make plans to break into your specific home. Burglars look for windows left open or people who are often away at predictable times. All you need is to be more secure than another target they have in mind.
Toon1982@reddit
A lot of new builds (and replacement doors in older houses) are composite, which have the multi lock, plus a reinforced door (whereas some upvc doors can have their panels kicked through)
No_Base4946@reddit
You can pop a panel out of a uPVC door and gain entry in about ten seconds, and pop it back without leaving any sign it was disturbed.
They're pretty crappy for security.
All those complicated mechanical latches sure do look the part, though.
Otherwise-Extreme-68@reddit
How do you pop a panel out?
Rich-Rhubarb6410@reddit
Donkey kick the panel. They flex and bounce the beads out
Otherwise-Extreme-68@reddit
Nice, I'll try that next time
gotmunchiez@reddit
Beats the sledgehammer technique
Otherwise-Extreme-68@reddit
I've never tried with a sledgehammer, have tried with an enforcer I guess it's pretty much the same result in that it just bounces straight off
thecockmeister@reddit
What's the legality of owning one of those giant door keys? Guessing anyone can have one in theory, as it's just a lump of metal at the end of the day, but it looks mighty suspicious to be carrying one about in the boot of your car next to a few tvs and jewellery boxes.
Rich-Rhubarb6410@reddit
Putting it back afterwards from the outside wouldnât work as 99% of Upvc panel doors have the beading on the inside.
No_Base4946@reddit
It doesn't touch the beading on the inside. You kind of pop it around the trim on the outside leaving the inside untouched.
That is, of course, if you care about making it look like no-one touched it. If you don't care you can just run a Stanley knife round the whole door and cut the entire thing out of its frame.
Rich-Rhubarb6410@reddit
Thatâs not how Upvc doors are designed. Iâm talking from experience, as I own / have owned three door manufacturing businesses over the last twenty years, which have manufactured in excess of 100,000 Upvc doors
Western_Squirrel_700@reddit
I heard a Police Officer say that once - you can't stop a burglar breaking into a house, all you can do is make them break into a different one that's not yours.
Baboobalou@reddit
My Dad's house was never what you might call tidy. One night, I swear I thought I heard the back door slide open. After a while and not having heard anything else, I calmed myself down and told myself I'd imagined it. A few days later, I heard a neighbour had been burgled. I think the burglar took one look at Dad's place and left.
denjin@reddit
It's the old "I don't need to outrun the bear, I just need to outrun you"Â
Any sufficiently determined burglar is getting into your house, you just to make your house a less attractive proposition to someone looking to break in.
ComputerSoup@reddit
motorbike riders have a very similar philosophy. we accept that if somebody wants our bike bad enough, they will take it, no matter what security devices weâve got. but if an opportunistic thief pulls up to a group of parked bikes, theyâre gonna take the one thatâs easiest to throw in the back of a van. you donât have to be impossible to steal, just difficult.
4thLineSupport@reddit
Similar with bicycles and skis haha
SkipsH@reddit
Me and a housemate used to chain our bikes together with two chains, made it more difficult to steal.
CarpeCyprinidae@reddit
the real win is to chain it to a polar bear
HowCanYouBanAJoke@reddit
That's why I keep an alligator in the bathroom, they call me the alligator man.
Possiblyreef@reddit
Same as IT security really. If someone is hell bent on getting in to your house then in all likelihood they're going to get in.
If a burglar is wanting to break in to a random house the best thing you can do is secure it to the point its enough of a deterrent
butwhatsmyname@reddit
Mortice plus Yale locks are solid enough that when I got burgled, the locks held so well that the thieves smashed the whole doorframe, with the door still locked into it, out of the brickwork and onto the hall floor.
Oghamstoner@reddit
If I see an armoured door, I know thereâs something worth stealing.
HughWattmate9001@reddit
Kicking down someoneâs door to rob them is super rare. The doors we have would take a good few minutes to break through without a saw (Iâve seen police struggle with ramsâthese days, they mostly use saws). By the time someone got through, a neighbor wouldâve reported it. Not that the police would rush over or anything. Plus, most people have insurance, so theyâd be covered. I donât think armored doors are necessaryâmaybe in the countryside, but then burglars would just go through a window or drill the lock. In London, itâd be even harder to smash a door in and get away with it, thanks to all the CCTV.
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
Crowbar to attack the frame when they needed to access my Dad's house - welfare check.
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
Most thieves are opportunistic. A locked door and most have two locks - yale and mortice - deters them. If you are being targetted, then they are going to be ready for an armoured door. And an armoured door is also a death-trap in a fire if the fire brigade can't access. I'd rather be robbed than die in a fire or due to ill health because emergency services can't get in.
Party_Broccoli_702@reddit
Italian armoured door sales teams do an amazing job.
Particular_Wave_8567@reddit
We used to be a high trust society not anymore. Youâll start to see more armoured doors.
Bunkerlala@reddit
The UK is not massively crime ridden. Most people have never been a victim of crime.
Big_Industry_2067@reddit
Britain was historically a high trust society. But that has all changed as a result of mass migration but doors haven't caught up yet.
That said many rural communities remain high trust. I don't lock the doors at my house unless we're going to be away overnight.
spammmmmmmmy@reddit
We really don't have that much stuff to steal in our house. The only valuable thing I can think of is car keys... what kind of thief wants bedding, a sewing machine or 1kg of hazelnuts?
MrHistoricalHamster@reddit
I purchased a lock picking practice set from amazon. I cracked the padlock in the first minute. With a bit of practice I moved onto my door lock. I can now pick lock a standard pvc front door/ backdoor in the UK within 10 seconds. I even have a pick lock set in my glovebox incase I forget my keys (itâs saved me 2/3 times over the years). I leave my keys all the time st the office now my phone Auto Unlockâs my carâŚ
Long story short. Itâs way too fucking easy to break into a house. I airlock mine, I have sensors on the windows and doors. But I lock the internal doors from the inside. So if someone breaks in theyâre isolated in that one room with alarms going. Internal doors are deadlocked and thick as fuck. Theyâre have an easier time smashing through the wall.
Some people will say this is a fire risk. Everything in my house is flame resistant. Including better plasterboard, wall panels the lotâŚ
The cost of incorporating this was negligible since I like heavy doors anyway. It just seems common sense to make sure your family is safe. Even if the risk is 0.00001 percent.
anotherbozo@reddit
How often have you heard of someone breaking someone's door in? Excluding those by law enforcement.
I have never heard or seen that happen. That's probably explains why.
Most burgularies are through unlocked doors, breaking windows, or following you into your home.
noodles1972@reddit
Because you all got tricked into thinking a new door will be the solutions to the problem. Is it?
fiddly_foodle_bird@reddit
I used to work with a couple of Italians, and they mentioned the similar thing about having bars on the windows - This is very common in Italy, never seen it here; When I asked why anybody would want bars on their windows, prison-style, they were strongly adamant that crime was much much higher in Italy.
Rubberfootman@reddit
I always assumed that people in hotter countries would routinely have their windows open, and the bars were to stop people getting in.
Afinkawan@reddit
I also assumed this.
So it's canon now, until any Italians can be bothered correcting it.
Apidium@reddit
This. Some of the recent summers I have wanted bars on my windows so I could leave them open all night long without worry.
146Ocirne@reddit
I see the bars at ground floor windows a lot more common now especially in London.
aspacetobelieve@reddit
We had bars on the back window of my kitchen when I was growing up in MCR cos thats where someone came in to rob us
FriedChickenBox@reddit (OP)
I've seen bars in london. but yes it's for summer to leave windows open
butwhatsmyname@reddit
Yeah, London is the only place in the UK that I've seen window bars on residential properties.
bowak@reddit
There used to be quite a few around some bits of Moss Side - saw loads on a couple of streets the first time I was looking for somewhere to live in the area in 04ish, a lot less by the second time in 2015 and I have no idea how many still have them now tbf.
tobzere@reddit
If you go to the North, a lot of towns and cities have barred windows across whole streets.Â
Newcastle has it a lot, a lot in parts of Liverpool.Â
Not north, but both Nottingham and Stoke on trent also have a lot of barred windows.Â
It really depends where you are
Vegetable-Tale-6653@reddit
What parts of Liverpool? Even places like Sheil Road don't do this.
quartersessions@reddit
Back in 1999, there were two students who died in a flat fire in Glasgow as a result of iron bars over the windows preventing them from escaping. After that, there was a lot of discussion over the fire safety aspects of them and I believe a lot were removed around that time.
irgeorge@reddit
This is why I wouldn't want barred windows or an armoured door. Â
Much more afraid of fire than burglary. Armoured doors can prevent emergency services entering, bars prevent your escape etc.
Natural_Dentist_2888@reddit
I'm not surpirsed. You know how untrustworthy those Southern Europeans are. Check you've still got all your fingers if you ever shake hands with one.
My partner is Italian, and I worked with Italians for 7 years, and their logic can be strange. Like they'll reinforce a door so someone goes in the window, then they'll reinforce the windows, when a cheap dummy camera and flood light is a greater deterrent.
sv21js@reddit
All the student houses in Leeds have bars on the windows and a metal grate over the front door.
ShadowBannedSkyRu1e@reddit
My House in Australia has barred windows on the front deck, was already on the house when bought and just never taken them off and thereâs very few (if any) break ins around me
Future_Challenge_511@reddit
you know the old joke about two guys coming across a bear in the woods? One of them starts tying up his shoelaces- his pal laughs and says it won't help him out run a bear, he replies that 'i don't have to outrun the bear, just you'
Security for generic houses are like that, unless a person has a specific reason to target you you just have to not look like the easiest target on your street, if everyone else has metal doors then you need the same but if not then it doesn't really matter.
Also the majority of housing estates in UK are owned by the council and there are checks on people installing different items- even if the person bought the leasehold of the flat the doors and windows are the responsibility of the freeholder and they'll often charge more to check non-standard designs.
Ok_Perspective_5480@reddit
I wonder if itâs also to do with climate. metal door/s would rust quicker here than in Italy
aitorbk@reddit
I am from Spain living 15 years, got the nationality and I am still impressed by the lack of security in British homes .
My guess is lack of awareness. The locksmiths and door manufacturers do know, but they sell crap doors for a similar price to an Italian or Spanish armoured door, so why rock the boat? And an armoured door isn't safe in our birthplaces.. you need a proper steel door with steel frame deeply tied to the wall.
I didn't do that at home because I live in a house.. I just put a really safe cylinder and a safe door handle/shield, cameras, alarm and called it "safe". If you live in a house or ground floor, the investment to make it safe would be huge.
illarionds@reddit
Generally speaking, people kicking down your front door isn't a very high percentage of burglaries.
And I imagine armoured doors are extremely expensive (hell, regular doors are shockingly expensive) - so hardly something you're going to do for your landlord's flat. Hardly something most people are going to do even for their own flat - high expensive, very limited perceived return.
InevitablePen3465@reddit
If I wanted to break into a house I'd go through the window. If there wasn't a window I'd pick the lock. If it was a lock I couldn't pick (very rare) I'd go next door
Queen_Banana@reddit
Seems like a waste of time/money. My house was burgled, they broke in a small locked window. Never touched the door.
I have a burglar alarm now.
wizard_mitch@reddit
How often are people breaking down front doors on terraced street in clear view of the road?
Creative_Ninja_7065@reddit
Builders in the UK are also cheap. I've got what passes for an interior door as a front door on my house. Really ought to change it before next winter...
lottere@reddit
We were burgled about 15 years ago - they tried the wooden front door with a crowbar and had no luck, tried the PVC side door with no results and so just smashed the window.
The doors held beautifully, no armour needed, itâs just too bad we need sunlight downstairs.
iguessimbritishnow@reddit
I'd say there's a few of things at play here:
On top of that, for properties in London and other metro areas:
Owner-occupied properties are a really low percentage (under 50% on paper - a lot lower in practice) compared to more over 75% for most of south europe. Renters have no say about doors
The real robbery happens monthly, it's called paying rent and no burglary could possible milk more money from you that your landlord does. * Most flats are parts of big blocks, so you need special permission from the management company to change anything like a door, making it an unnecessary hustle
FatBloke4@reddit
If someone wants to burgle a house, they aren't likely to attack the front door because it would make too much noise, they are likely to be seen from the street and there may be a doorbell camera. A more likely entry point will be a door or window at the back of the house, where they are less likely to be seen.
Many years ago, my place was burgled and this was achieved by someone levering open a sliding door at the back of the house (probably, using a car jack). Another technique is to dismantle the parts of a window that hold the double glazing unit in place. This makes no noise but takes a while, so a burglar would choose to do this somewhere out of sight.
Civil_opinion24@reddit
Ex-police.
Security isn't about making your house impregnable. It's about making it marginally less attractive to criminals than a house across the street.
I have an alarm, a couple of CCTV cameras, decent locks and windows. I also don't keep valuables on display and have a very barky dog.
My neighbour leaves their doors unlocked when they go out.
A burglar is more likely to pick on them.
dazedan_confused@reddit
In the UK, people prefer to smash your back doors in.
Character_Mention327@reddit
Nothing worth stealing, mate.
Cardabella@reddit
Maybe because in Italy shutters are normal and needed to keep the heat out which makes the door a security weak point
Timely-Month-3101@reddit
Used to be able to leave the doors wide open and unlocked in the 90s then it all started to change , more nutters around now , I hope it doesn't get to try point we have to start using bars on the windows
theModge@reddit
Italian's are much more scared of crime than we are. I'll leave others to check the stats, so I can't say for sure if it's born out by any sort of reality.
Source: My Italian in laws have big, secure walls around their property, shutters and indeed a front door that looks impressive (though a decent crowbar would still shift it: it's metal, but not that thick). The shutters of course are great for the heat and for that I miss them here too in the summer, but again for crime they'd stop an opportunist, not a determined thief. They constantly concerned someone is going to kidnap our daughter and can't believe my parents live in a house with no wall around the front garden (I have a 3' wall)
Wgh555@reddit
France can be like this too, in the south. I think the Med just seems to more crime or perception of it at least?
Fungled@reddit
I suspect this is connected with southern European âhonour cultureâ, or at least related facets; it would explain why shows of security are more overt than in the north
Wgh555@reddit
Oh honour culture what would that be? Curious as not heard that before.
Fungled@reddit
The theory goes that, comparing northern and southern Europe, the south is traditionally predominantly a cattle herding culture. Since you're relying on cattle as your livelihood you have to be wary of the very real danger that someone comes in the night and steals you sheep/goats, whatever. So how do you protect against that in the days before police, security systems, etc.? The best way is to be seen as a total badass who is not to be messed with and you will get vengeance. Out of that comes a culture of macho bravado, which is all about showing that you aren't to be messed with as a form of security. And it is certainly what we know of as stereotypical in those parts of the world even today.
This is much less the case in the north where people's livelihoods are more likely to be farming crops, which can't be stolen, so no need for this kind of cultural trope to develop.
So, relating it back to the OP's point, it seems totally reasonable to me that those in the same parts of the world are much more sensitive to obvious displays of security, whereas those in the north are more concerned with the practicalities of security.
I couldn't find an obvious Wiki article about this topic, but there's stuff like:
Tundur@reddit
The counterpart to honour cultures is institutional culture. One which puts restrains the individual and places reliance on external institutions for justice. The 17th through 19th centuries were when Britain really transitioned from one to the other - most dramatically in the English Civil War where monarchy, autocracy, and episcopacy faced off against committee, bureaucracy, and Presbyterianism.
You can see a kind of regression in London, where poor mostly migrant communities don't trust the state and end up finding alternatives - whether that's the honour culture of gangs, or the alternative institutions peculiar to their community.
Revolutionary-Mode75@reddit
You can get armour doors that look like a period door. For example i bet downing street door is a armoured door, yet it looks like a normal door.
FridayGeneral@reddit
I doubt that. London is generally safer than cities in Italy, in terms of crime rate per person.
Home burglary in London is so rare, it is not worth worrying about.
gowithflow192@reddit
UK is in a kind of denial that they are needed. Same with bars on windows, there's a big aversion to it.
It's almost like they would feel bad to admit more security is now required. From biggest world power to this.
_SGP_@reddit
Counterpoint:
I have a client in London that sells armoured doors that look like beautiful traditional doors that match the buildings. Perhaps you just don't know they're armoured?
EyeLegitimate3549@reddit
The principle of home security is to be a harder target than next door. The only time I would consider armouring doors or windows is if every other building on the street had already done so, making me the weakest target.
As it stands I have excellent locks and a rather large dog roaming the ground floor. I consider myself to be one of the less attractive targets on my development. Next door by contrast have the shoddy europrofile cylinders that can be defeated in around 40 seconds with no skill at all.
ninewaves@reddit
My dad used to say, if someone who knows what they are doing wants to get in badly enough they will get in.
Armoured doors are largely just security theatre in the theft climate in london. No regular burglar is going to cut your door in half to get in.
A good lock deters basic lock breaking, very few burglars pick locks. And a good lock makes that hard too. A london bar prevents kicking in the door quickly
Thieves want a quiet way in, or a quick way in. Making either one difficult isnt hard and doesnt need a big scary steel door with 4 locking points.
having worked with wealthy people in london, there are ways of making security doors look just like any door you like as well, and valuables will be in the safe. As i said. Obviously armoured doors are theatre and work as a deterrant against opportunists. Opportunists will find an easier opportunity elsewhere.
So really, its a different approach.
MaltDizney@reddit
What do burglars even steal from homes these days?
Albion-Chap@reddit
Seeing this whenever I go to Italy I've always assumed it was an aesthetic thing rather than a security issue?
A door is secure as it's lock - a lot of places I stay in Italy had heavy metal doors but the same kind of electronic buzzer latch that a normal fire door in the UK would have.
dbltax@reddit
That's a bingo. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
tjroberts33@reddit
You just say "bingo".
tMoohan@reddit
It's from inglorious bastards
tjroberts33@reddit
So is what I said, it's the next line in the quote
tMoohan@reddit
Nooooooooo
FriedChickenBox@reddit (OP)
that's maybe in hotels. In EU you have class 1, 2, 3 doors, with 3 being very sturdy. most people install that.
megasin1@reddit
For anyone curious. Uk and Italy both use env 1627 for door standards. It goes up to class 6, which would be power tool resistant. Like a bank door.
Implematic950@reddit
If youâve got nothing worth stealing you donât need an armoured door.
MZFUK@reddit
I think the attitude is, it doesnât matter what you do, if someone is persistent they will gain access.
So catching them on camera or having an alarm would be more cost effective than spending a lot more money on doors and windows that might work.
Also hereâs something. If you have an armoured door, that probably means you have money (at least enough to get a fancy door) and maybe something worth stealing. Now you stand out amongst the crowd.
grafeisen203@reddit
It's the window thing. A regular locked UPVC or even wooden front door will stop a casual burglar. A determined one will just smash a window.
wizard_mitch@reddit
It is pretty rare for somebody's front door to be forcefully broken down. That would take a bit of time and make noise when it would be easier to just go through the window.
MxJamesC@reddit
Gino dicampo stopped robbing houses so we don't need em anymore.
ninjabadmann@reddit
We donât generally need them. Remember the type of crime committed is also cultural and the fear of crime is often higher than the reality.
So maybe you have more burglars in Italy or youâre more scared of them.
New_Line4049@reddit
Am armoured door would cost more than the contents of my home probably, and would still not stop a determined burglar.
haroman666@reddit
I need a new garage door, and I have looked in to high security doors as I have some high value items inside.
I've gone off the idea as I think if it looks like I have a high-security door protecting something, then it's more likely to draw attention.
Therefore I'm going to get a basic new garage door and install a self design inner cage gate to do the security bit. High security that doesn't draw attention to itself.
Maybe that's why people don't bother in apartment blocks? Stands out against all the other basic doors.
Chicken_shish@reddit
Once you've experienced a determined burglar you realise the problem.
Our place in London has a basement access which is clearly vulnerable to low-lives. We built the window out of armoured glass, I believe you could empty a pistol into it and it would not fail. The door is similar - wooden outside, steel core, multipoint locks.
So matey comes along and kicks the crap out of it. Cost to repair the damage - about ÂŁ15k. We've have been better off if he'd just kicked a conventional down a conventional door and nicked everything he could carry.
i would also say that this sort of acquisitive crime is not so prevalent. In the old days, someone was always ready to buy second hand electronics, these days it is almost valueless. Crime seems to have moved to theft in the street, which has become a huge problem.
SufficientPoetry5494@reddit
british oak doors ?
thesteelmaker@reddit
OP, watch some of the Police based shows on TV. They even struggle breaking doors in, with the Big Red Key.
levinyl@reddit
If someone wants to get in - They will get in....Armored or not - It's not the only way in like you mentioned....
RichKiernan@reddit
Planning laws probably play a major factor plus fire regulations
Kapika96@reddit
It's London, not Baghdad. There aren't enough bombs and bullets flying around to need armoured doors.
Hour-Cup-7629@reddit
My mum was burgled once in her lifetime. It was probably the only time she didnt have a dog. The police said just that to her. Burglers avoid dogs.
duringbusinesshours@reddit
Italian society is a society of low trust. UK apparently of higher social trust. For example Germans and East-Asians have very high trust.
You will not like this answer but Italy is much poorer and petty crime is expected. Whereas in more affluent countries trust is typically higher. Less you scratch my back I scratch yours, more systemic civic trust.
perpetualmentalist@reddit
Only dealers use that level of security.. But seriously they do. đ¤Łđ¤Ł
BuildingArmor@reddit
A really quick Google suggests that there are 6-7 burglaries per 1k households in the UK. And over 8 per 1k in Italy.
So perhaps it's just that burglaries are a bigger part of Italian culture than British so there's less need to defend against them.
herrsteely@reddit
It's because we have fuck all worth stealing, breaking in would just waste the burgers time
heyyouupinthesky@reddit
I knew a drug dealer who had a reinforced metal door.. he got robbed by other dealers who went through the window. I never understood the logic of having the door in the first place!
ClayDenton@reddit
A lot of the nice period houses have gigantic sash windows, so there's no point in having an armoured door. What you're not seeing is that a lot of them will have internal security doors. For example, I have a friend whose family live in a big Victorian place, and they have lockable interior doors from Banham they lock every night that separates the lounge (with big sash windows), kitchen (with patio doors) and the internal house. So if you break in you pretty much can't access the interior house, just the room you broke into.
StrawberryRoutine@reddit
My brother lives in Italy and has to go through like 5 doors to get to his flat. Itâs overkill.
The_Big_Man1@reddit
Not very helpful I know but my strategy to not getting burgled is by having fuck all worth nicking.
Cathcart1138@reddit
Sono Gloria, ho lasciato la patente sul tavolo accanto alla frutta!
OkArea7640@reddit
Benigni!
Corrie7686@reddit
Watch a video of police trying to breakdown a modern muktilock UPVC door. Takes them 10+ mins. Windows are way easier.
poliver1988@reddit
Fire regulations. You're not allowed armored doors on resedentials.
SingerFirm1090@reddit
In the UK most thefts and burglaries are done by opportunists funding a drugs habit, they are not master criminals.
Putting up an 'armoured door', which I've encountered in the UK, just advertises there is something worth stealing. A criminal would just wait for the owner to come home and hold a knife to their throat (or their loved one's throat) to gain entry.
The UK relies a lot on CCTV to deter criminals, many homes have RING or similar doorbells.
There are still places in the UK where people do not lock their front doors, never mind armour them.
Heavy-Locksmith-3767@reddit
So the police can break in more easily.
Leicsbob@reddit
A lot of drug dealers have armoured doors.
No_Coyote_557@reddit
With a metal grille you can leave the inner door open. In England it's too cold.
butwhatsmyname@reddit
This reminds me a bit of an incident that happened a few years back.
My aunt was doing some work at a residential center which was in converted farm buildings. It was a charity organisation and did some great work. They had a lot of equipment stored in a large timber outbuilding and one night some thieving bastards took bolt cutters to the padlock on the doors and robbed it empty.
It was a lot of stress for everyone to replace the equipment - some of which was really specialist - none of it worth a lot of money, but lots of it difficult to source/have made. They raised money for brand new equipment and that took a while. So they got a new, much more heavy duty locking system for the storage building...
...but when the thieves came back, they just broke the hinges and lifted the still-locked door out.
So the equipment had to be replaced again, and this time they were REALLY diligent about refitting the storage building more securely - steel bracing inside the doors. Three point locking. New reinforced doorframe. Nobody was going to get through those doors again!
And they didn't.
Because the next time they robbed the place, they saw this new, reinforced security setup... and just crowbarred the back off the wooden outbuilding instead.
No point creating a super secure front door on a wooden shed. No point installing one on a house with ground-floor glass windows either.
yabo1-@reddit
Lmao, bait used to be believable. Do our taps annoy you as well by any chance?
gagagagaNope@reddit
The real question is why do italians have armoured doors?
abovetopsecret1@reddit
Itâs also fairly common for thieves to go in with keys, normally âfishedâ through the letterbox, or just take the car with them.
trya12@reddit
My friend who is a policeman said: you need to make it difficult to get into your house. If they thinm it will take more than 5 minutes to get in, they will pass your house. But if they have decided they want to go in, they will get in. No matter how expensive your locks are. Also if you have really expensive locks, they will think there are a lot of valuables in the house.
CustomerNo1338@reddit
A house is as secure as its windows or roof tiles, not its doors.
BackgroundGate3@reddit
I can't say I've ever seen anyone break a front door to get in, other than in police TV shows. I have, however, seen someone climb on an outhouse roof and enter a house through an upstairs open window.
Garth_Knight1979@reddit
Had a steel door fitted Cerberus Doors a few years ago. Not plain looking at all and passes for a regular looking door until you see it close up. Canât be kicked or prised open with a crowbar like uPVC or wooden doors. Wasnât much more expensive than a composite door
Lunaspoona@reddit
I live in a block of flats and don't even lock my door lol
dbxp@reddit
If someone is going through the door they'll use bypass tools like reaching through the letter box and turning the thumb turn or bumping. Actually going through the door sounds very unlikely.
ImpressNice299@reddit
If everybody else on your street has an armoured door, you need one or youâll appear the weakest link. If nobody does, it makes no difference.
A ânoisyâ home invasion would also be very risky in this country. What would you even steal in the few minutes before the police flood the area?
tmstms@reddit
How about this one- we are in more than you are- your different climate (less windy further south, so overall warmer) means your residences are emptier more often?
Not_invented-Here@reddit
I think there becomes a.ertaon culture around it also. That is since everyone else is doing it, it becomes a standard fitting.
I see the same in Vietnam where I live, far nicer area than pretty much any place I've lived in the uk. Houses are like a fortress, barred windows, armoured doors, security guy. People seem to be really cautious about theft.Â
SevenHouses@reddit
My dad was a security consultant for years. Apparently most break-ins wont happen through a front door. Doors are notoriously tricky to get through unless you're a skilled locksmith. Modern latches are complex and with uPVC multi-point locks around the frame and metal bars crossing the interior of a door, you're spending a lot of time, on the main road, visibly trying to break into a house. Instead they'll go through somewhere that isn't seen. A skylight, or back door for instance. Someone else said it already but you wont ever stop a break in, but you can make it difficult forcing them to chose a different location. Burglar alarms, CCTV, ring doorbells, guard-dog signage are popular. Most burglars are going for something specific like car keys or credit cards and they're getting more and more confident. A couple of years ago there were a series of car thefts in the area by dedicated car thieves from South America. They're flown over and have 3 months to get XXX types of car. Down my road they would knock on the door at 6pm when people are in, force themselves in at gunpoint or knifepoint, take the keys and leave.
FriedChickenBox@reddit (OP)
That's probably why there's in issue in Italy. Apartment doors are not visible from the street. Only from the next to door neighbour if they are in and if they are awake.
Otherwise-Extreme-68@reddit
Modern UPVC doors are virtually impossible to get through unless you have hydraulic tools, or cutting equipment.
Only the most basic of cheap wooden doors are easy to break through, and I doubt many people will break into those properties as there typically will be lower value items inside.
In 99% of cases it's much easier to go in through a window
Exciting_Top_9442@reddit
I live in the 3rd floor behind 2 security doors and quite a formidable front door too. I also have insurance as you point out.
But itâs the bloody trick or treaters Iâm worried about and all this keeps them out thank gods.
vajaxle@reddit
I feel like Gino D'Acampo can weigh in on this.
Dissidant@reddit
If you mean composite doors, I've seen more of them about over the last decade in residential properties
Actual armored doors is more of a business property thing, they aren't exactly aesthetically pleasing and tend to stand out
Zealousideal-Sail893@reddit
It's THE UK - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.Â
barriedalenick@reddit
Because largely they are a waste of time. I had a secure door installed in London which would have taken a real pounding if you tried to kick it in or jimmy it open. It was expensive and I was happy with it until I locked myself out - it took a locksmith 15 seconds to open it without a key (it wasn't double locked though). Generally, If someone wants to break into a house, they will not try to kick your door in because it makes a considerable racket. They will just use non brute force methods - no one I know who got burgled in London had their door kicked in
Oli99uk@reddit
My colleagues front door was kicked in in broad daylight.   Residential street, N. London. Â
NaniFarRoad@reddit
Italians have Burglar/Thief as a semi-respectable profession. Every Italian I've met, most of them respectably middle-class, has happily recounted stories of petty crime they were told by their neighbour, the Thief ("but he didn't steal from us of course, they have standards").
mizcello@reddit
well I don't even lock my door, never mind have an armoured one.. but I don't like anywhere near a city.
Captain_Swing@reddit
In London there are a huge number of rental properties and landlords don't give a fuck if their tenants get burgled.
MrRedDoctor@reddit
To anyone saying a burglar would use windows instead, in Italy, a lot of street-level windows will have grills in front of them for exactly that reason. Particularly concerned people may put grills even on above-ground floor windows
Skilldibop@reddit
It's far easier to break a window and get in.
Rent in London is so high no one has any money left for possessions...there's nothing to steal. âMinimalist styleâ aka. I spend 80% of my salary on rent so I can't afford anything but a single cactus to put on this shelf.
AF_II@reddit
This is it. Burglaries are actually relatively rare, burglaries through front doors extremely so. Mostly if they do break in they'll swipe a few easy sale high-value items and your car keys. For most people the aesthetics of living behind an armoured door/with bars over the windows is gross and makes them feel imprisioned and sad, as well as making the area look dodgy.
It's also the case that a lot of people in London rent, and so have zero control over doors, and landlords don't give a shit. Why buy an expensive door when you can put a tatty one in?
Albert_Herring@reddit
I'd usually assume an armoured door means that it's a drug dealer. You'd get people knocking on it looking to score an the time, very tedious.
Bensoir@reddit
This post has been up 30 minutes and I canât see one comment relating to having âback doorsâ smashed in.
Disappointing.
GuybrushFunkwood@reddit
All our burglars are polite they knock and apologise profusely for interrupting your day before grabbing the TV. No need for armoured doors here.
Neddlings55@reddit
Whats gun control like in Italy?
FriedChickenBox@reddit (OP)
very strict
Lamb3DaSlaughter@reddit
Why break into a house when you can just shoplift in broad daylight and the police do nothing, or if they do the sentences are a joke?
JoeBagadonut@reddit
London has a high crime level compared to a lot of the rest of the UK but burglary in particular isn't super common because it's generally seen as a pretty serious crime, especially compared to the petty stuff like mobile phone theft which is commonplace in the city. With everyone having cameras on their doorbells, the chances you'll be caught are much higher and it's a crime that often results in jail time.
But to answer the question about doors specifically, they're only as good as their lock and anyone committed enough to robbing a place can just as easily smash a window and gain entry that way.
thermalcat@reddit
When I had a break in they came through the kitchen window. It happened about 15 years ago. I'm not willing to live in a cage for the risk of someone coming in again. I lock my doors and windows and that's enough security for me anything more seems paranoid.
Fun-Membership-9795@reddit
i think it might have something to do with some German guy that went on a messy holiday in 1939⌠he didnât make it across the water to the UK
nineteenthly@reddit
Austrian.
Valuable-Wallaby-167@reddit
Something like 60% of burglaries happen because someone goes in an unlocked door or window. A basic lock that you remember to use is the most effective deterrent to burglars that you can have.
Smashing open a front door isn't very common. The risk of getting caught is high.
FeekyDoo@reddit
Isn't it a hangover from earlier times?
Like when you go to a safe country where burglary is rare because general crime is low yet every single building has bars on the windows because threats what they did back in the 1500s.
MGLX21@reddit
London isn't Portland
Ill_Refrigerator_593@reddit
One thing is some types of crime (including burglary) have fallen massively over the past few decades-
https://theconversation.com/most-crime-has-fallen-by-90-in-30-years-so-why-does-the-public-think-its-increased-228797
Anecdotally when I was younger shops & residences had tougher security measures.
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