Dealing with cliquey expats and toxic positivity?

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Extra-Cold3276@reddit

I deal with them by not interacting with them.

I think expat communities have all kinds in most countries, especially countries that are harder to integrate to.

Here in Japan we have the people who fetishize the country and the "culture" (or at least what they believe the culture is) so much I wonder if they jack off every night while looking at the Japanese flag. These people often come from north America or Europe and married a gaijin hunter around 2-3 weeks after arriving. They never learned japanese because they either work as an English teacher or remotely for an American company, and their wife does all the paperwork for them. Therefore, they never had to deal with the frustrations one normally would face while interacting with the daily annoying stuff the country has (just like any other country). Therefore, when they see other people facing issues, they're quick to say it's all their fault and they should improve themselves to adapt to the perfect nippon empire, even though they are not really adapted to the country or culture themselves, they just found a way to reside in the country without actually navigating through the society.

There's the folks who think any form of criticism towards common behavior and cultural practices is "xenophobia". As someone who fluently speaks japanese and mostly interact with the locals because I didn't come here as an adult and had the opportunity to meet people at school and nowadays work, I do think it's quite funny that many of my japanese friends have the stuff they dislike about the country and complain about it pretty often, but if I repeat the exact same complaints in front of these expats, they'll either call me racist or gaslight me while claiming none of this happens in Japan.

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whymeimbusysleeping@reddit

The whole gaijin hunter/hunted is a phenomenon I wouldn't just put only on the woman. Yes, there are Japanese women who want to hook up and get married to a western guy, but nothing necessarily too bad about that, they have a preference for western so you cannot support a looks and want a western looking kid, fine.

The majority of guys who end up in that situation are youngish English teachers, without too much life experience to tell the girl just wants you for your "western-ness"

At the same time, the girl doesn't realise the guy might continue to be a bottom end of the market English teacher after one decade, as he never had a chance to develop a career.

The red flags were easily ignored or minimised, on the heat of the moment, specially with the language and culture difference (from both sides)

So you get an extremely volatile situation of both being frustrated, but now with a kid, guy can't go back home, woman stuck with a loser.

I'll say this, there is nothing wrong with the English teaching profession in Japan, but it's extremely hard to develop a career out of it, rather than paying more as you get better, they rather get another FOB for peanuts, it's impossible to sort a family unless you find a way to do some sort of specialised CEO training or whatever that pays more. But it's best to just switch careers ASAP.

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Miss_Might@reddit

Yeaaaaah, I'm going to tell you right now that the English teachers aren't the only ones gaijin hunted. Why would they hunt people with supposed shitty careers? It's 2025. They can just Google or ask AI about it. A lot of outdated stereotypes need to die.

Saying that, I'll throw in some of my annoyances with the "expat" community in Japan. This weird ass hierarchy that seems to mostly exist online on reddit.

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whymeimbusysleeping@reddit

Never said they're the only ones nor implied any hierarchy. Young people with little experience in life do dumb things.

Who has/had the lowest bar of entry to be able to live in Japan?

English teachers

What's the usual demographic for English teachers?

In their 20s

What do young people in their 20s do?

Dumb things

I'm an certified expert in the field, in my 20s, i was dumb as a rock and driven by hormones and vodka.

I'm sorry i hurt your English teacher feelings, i did put a disclaimer in my post to show there was no ill meaning, but you chose to ignore it.

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Miss_Might@reddit

It exists whether you mentioned it directly or not. Your tone definitely shows it.

Why would my feelings be hurt? I'm not a 20 year old male. Why would their feelings be hurt? They're apparently getting all the pussy and marriage proposals despite not having money or a career. 🤷‍♀️

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Miss_Might@reddit

It doesn't matter if you said it directly, it exists either way. Your tone definitely shows it.

Why would my feelings be hurt? I'm not a 20 year old male. Why would their feelings be hurt? They're apparently getting all this pussy and marriage proposals despite not having money or a career. 🤷‍♀️

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Miss_Might@reddit

It doesn't matter if you said it directly, it exists either way. Your tone definitely shows it.

Why would my feelings be hurt? I'm not a 20 year old male. Why would their feelings be hurt? They're apparently getting all this pussy and marriage proposals despite not having money or a career. 🤷‍♀️

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

I can only imagine Japan expats and "weeaboos" being absolutely insufferable. I've never been but the image of the typical Japan expat is just that.

Same about criticism in Vietnam, if you mention any of the many irritating, inconsiderate or annoying things the Vietnamese do, well, you're a racist. It doesn't matter how valid the issue is or how blindingly obvious it is, they'll defend it to the core as "you must adapt better" while in the same swoop telling the Vietnamese and other nationality that moves to America (and they usually are Americans) theres no need to adapt or assimilate just to fit into America.

They'll defend the worst of cultural traits with true hypocrisy, for example, they won't know which side to pick when Vietnamese who abuse animals or destroy the environment as part of their "culture". Arguing with these people is like trying to convince someone the sky is blue no matter how much they insist that it's actually green.

I gave up on the vinaboo expat crowd altogether.

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KartFacedThaoDien@reddit

Nah I don’t think any other country comes close to Nam type expats. It’s because there is almost no range and 90% of the people you run into fit somewhere within the range of those 3 types. And they’d never be caught in say Japan because they wouldn’t get that rock star treatment for being white.

In most countries people can see the faults and have no issue with calling them out. The craziest shit I ever saw was this dude from the UK who was of Arab ancestry deflecting on people being racist trying to say it was an isolated incident.

This isn’t even getting into how to people deflected and downplayed covid lockdowns when a few months prior they were complaining because we couldn’t get food or water. The leadership even said tampons and diapers weren’t essential and they deflected on that too.

The most insane part was when they were denying non viets were being kicked out of their apartments in Saigon during Covid when a ton of people complained about it. This is truly insane the levels these people will go to and I don’t know how they mentally do it. They really love the little slice of privilege they get when it reality it’s not shit.

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Mammoth-Goat-7859@reddit

I ignore them. Just let them do their thing and don't talk to them. They're not empathetic or trustworthy in my opinion. And if I see them on social media, I block them.

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Miss_Might@reddit

Doesn't matter if you said it or not. It definitely exists and it shows in your tone.

Why would it hurt my feeelings I'm not a 20 year old male. Why would their feelings be hurt about it? They're apparently getting all this pussy and marriage proposals thrown at them. Despite having no money and no careers. 🤷‍♀️

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SpicelessKimChi@reddit

I agree with your first point. And we also get shit on because we live in a swanky neighborhood about a 15-minute walk to centro while most of our expat friends live IN centro.

But generally it's a 'ohhhhh fannncy' and we all laugh and then talk about the goods and the bads of living here. I find most travelers from the US and Canada also are looking for what they ate in their home country, but also enjoy finding uber-local mom-n-pop cafes or restaurants.

And what's wrong with saving the world one hungry kid at a time. At least they can look back at some point and say 'I didn't do much but I tried to do something.'

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

Expats in Vietnam are basically crabs in a bucket while pretending to be positive and supportive of each other. On the rare occasion that I used to go to an expat bar, they would be gossiping and trash talking someone, only for them to be out together having a good time with that person the following week.

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SpicelessKimChi@reddit

Ha ok yes I've experienced that as well but I feel like that's not an expat thing. Humans are, by and large, trash.

I don't have many friends here because they're very cliquey and I always hated cliques. I'd rather drink alone than with a bunch of people I only talk to because we're from the same shithole country.

That said, most of the nomads I've encountered in my travels have been pretty cool.

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DueDay88@reddit

I don't tend to associate with other immigrants specifically BECAUSE they are immigrants, but I have recently noticed that my circle that is growing seems mostly comprised of local couples where one of the partners is an immigrant. However we are all from different continents. The thing we all have in common is that our spouses are all a little bit outside the norms- social change makers, activists, and visionaries who are fiercely committed to transformin their countries, and the foreigners all have humility to recognize we are residents but also guests and trying to be respectful while still having and sharing an opinion when it's appropriate.

The thing is, we all met and got to know one another naturally. It wasn't some forced "oh you're a foreigner too, let's be friends" type deal. I actually did not realize these were the demographics of the friends I considered friend until my partner pointed it out. One of them is so integrated here I forgot she immigrated! Most of the group are teachers, and involved in conservation work in some way.

As for the problematic people (which here in Belize there are versions of the same tropes you and others listed) I just either entirely avoid them or maintain polite distance. These types tend to either be tourists who will leave eventually or "expats" who call themselves that instead of immigrants and remain insular to other North American foreigners never learning to understand Kriol or Spanish, OR they are over-eager colonizing missionaries. I have zero interest in them, and most of them tend to assume I'm a local due to racism (lol-I'm brown and obviously NO north Americans look like me right?), so I fly under their radar which is perfectly fine with me.

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SpicelessKimChi@reddit

Belizean kriol is hard, man. I tried my best!

Learning Spanish now that we no longer live in an English speaking country but it too is difficult.

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DueDay88@reddit

I actually found Kriol to be the easiest language so far because it has so much English mixed in. Within a year I went from not understanding 90% of Kriol to understanding 90%. I do get a lot of exposure though because my partner is Belizean and speaks Kriol at home and in public.

But maybe I had an advantage also knowing AAVE as my first language, because Kriol and AAVE have things in common too both being heavily influenced by west African dialects.

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SpicelessKimChi@reddit

I was in an uber in Houston and the driver had a pair of boxing gloves painted with the Belizean flag and I busted out a 'ya da Belize brudda?' And he was like "whaaat?"

I'm sure it was a bad attempt at kriol but he was happy to hear even my horrific rendition. I love Belizeans, they're so funny and friendly.

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Desperate_Quest@reddit

I distance myself from other expats as much as possible and only connect with a few for when I feel homesick. Most expats like to go clubbing, "hit the town", go do all the flashy stuff and often have a "aw it's so cute!" Kind of demeaning attitude toward local culture and people. It annoys me and feels so immature and disrespectful. A foreign country is not your playground.

I much prefer making friends with locals

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HyperbolicModesty@reddit

On the opposite end, we have the cliquey toxic positivity crowd. These are usually younger, more naive and liberal leaning, most likely English teachers out to save the world, one impoverished kid at a time. Once again, they can't (or won't) see anything bad about Vietnam.

I experience this in Italy with the same group you mention, but add to that middle-aged Americans with Italian heritage. The same crowd that howl when someone asks where can they find good Indian or Chinese food, or Irish butter in the supermarket. "How can you come to Italy to eat Indian food!?!one!one!"

Dude I live here. I have eaten Italian food every day for the last fifteen years. I need some variety.

They also have a preconception of what Italy is and disagree violently with anything that contradicts it. Working in Italy is not great, and life is tough for normal people. "How can you say that, you're in Italy!"

Then you find they're only on a 90-day tourist visa.

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Pale-Candidate8860@reddit

Only hang out with Vietnamese. Sounds like the solution.

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KartFacedThaoDien@reddit

Why would you ever set foot in Vietnam, stay there AND hang around kart faced thao Dien expats. I ran once the borders opened after being stuck there during Covid. These are the kinda people Nam attracts and it’s worth being in the country because it’s an infestation. Think about how many people you meet who aren’t like this.

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

Type 1 of the OP is the type to never leave Thao Dien. Type 2 is the type to never set foot there. Both work in harmony together as a synchronized cycle of shit.

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KartFacedThaoDien@reddit

🤣🤣🤣🤣 You realize sometimes they escape and Stumble around other districts with that look on their face right,

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

The former look genuinely terrified anytime they cross the bridge to Binh Thanh.

The latter will enter Thao Dien with smug disapproval at all the "uncultured swines refusing to adapt and be more authentic" while secretly wishing they also lived there.

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KartFacedThaoDien@reddit

The worst part is that when you point out how it’s pretty much anyone from the west you run into in Nam. People act like you just meet the wrong people or they say it’s like this in every country in Asia. Or they make another raving excuse like “there’s no where else in the world this cheap.” It’s honestly pure insanity and I couldn’t have been happier to get on plane and leave that country.

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

I'm making my plans too. No desire to ever return

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zappsg@reddit

user name checks out - what does it mean tho

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KartFacedThaoDien@reddit

Man.. Okay Do you know that look they have on their face. It’s kind of a smug but empty faced look. That’s what it means to be kart faced. But I’ll even add more to it sometimes they are about to wake up and say “ya know what this traffic in Nam sucks and it’s dangerous” or “umm actually food in say Japan is better than Saigon.”

But then they auto revert back to “Nam is so amazing” or “can you believe they actually have skyscrapers here.” Or whatever random bs they use to deflect negatives like “actually don’t worry about that motor that was going the wrong way and almost ran you over because in America you’d get shot in the face.”

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Frosty-Schedule-7315@reddit

I guess ‘nam would be the one place where at least you won’t find Vietnam vets. In Latin America they prop up bars everywhere, talking about Khe Sanh, hamburger hill, the tet, etc.

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

There's a surprising amount in Vung Tao

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KartFacedThaoDien@reddit

They are in Nam too. And they don’t even come close to the level of abnoxiousness to the type of people the op is talking about,

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inrecovery4911@reddit

Nope, they're there.

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zappsg@reddit

and 2. are also strong on the Thai online forums including reddit, but not something that has any influence on real life. The ones in Vietnam might actually be worse for real.

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

Thankfully Thailand has a big enough number of expats that no matter who you are, you'll probably find someone like-minded. Vietnam basically consists 90% of the 3 main types.

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blackkettle@reddit

While I can appreciate most of these gripes, this one definitely rubbed me the wrong way:

… speaking with terribly accented Vietnamese…

sorry but on the topic of local language, any effort to learn or integrate should be commended. What would you think about someone leveling similar complaints against non native English speaking immigrants in the US, Canada, Australia, etc? “The guy working the window at Mc Donald’s has such an awful English accent; man I can barely understand him, why’s he even trying?”

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KartFacedThaoDien@reddit

And we found the person who deflects like wild type Nam whites.

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phillyphilly19@reddit

I was thinking about moving to Mexico for retirement. Then I watched this video extolling how great the expat life is there, which ended with a bunch of white haired Americans dancing to Latin music on a rooftop. No thanks.

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HVP2019@reddit

We don’t really have exacts here.

I am an immigrant in California. There are tons of other immigrants here as well, yet I don’t really notice citizens by birth or naturalized Americans/immigrants having specific characteristics that are unique to their status.

Positive people will be positive people if they are citizens or if they are outsiders

Negative and annoying people will be negative and annoying no matter what is their legal status: citizens by birth or immigrants.

I stay away from annoying people or people I don’t like. This was true when I was a citizen in my own country, the same is true now when I am an immigrant.

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Vknw@reddit

This is the only real answer. To try to box expats into 3 distinct “types” is as silly and fruitless as trying to box any other group. People are gonna do people things. Find the ones you like.

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KerryAnnCoder@reddit

I haven't really hung out with many expats since moving to Mexico. Ran into one, though, that absolutely made me think: Yes, this is why the word "gringo" was invented.

Specifically, they were raving about how cheap all the services were here and how they had a live-in maid, how they were living like a king, how their lawyer handles all their affairs, how they basically live off of passive income and retired at the age of 40.

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, you know, enjoying your wealth, but flaunting it in a area of the world where people don't make all that much is absolutely horrible.

I try not to be that person. I always start conversations in Spanish, not English, though people pick up on the fact that I'm "estadosunidan" damn quickly. I try to live like a Yucateno, I shop at the mercado, not Walmart, I try to be friends with anyone who comes by to help, say thank you (profusely, as it turns out, I'm a neurotic) and always try to be friendly and make friends, even if communication is difficult.

Worst are the Trump supporters who moved down here for the cost of living, living off of capital investments in the United States, and don't see the irony of it.

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kulukster@reddit

One of my internal themes is don't be friends with people just because they are from the same country as you. Ignore the expats you dislike and make your own friends you mutually respect and enjoy.

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LonelyBee6240@reddit

Exactly. And I'll add to that: don't try to desperately make friends with the locals.

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yckawtsrif@reddit

💯 ³

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brass427427@reddit

This is the only way.

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samuraisal@reddit

Sounds like most suburban neighborhoods in the U.S. Maybe stop being so negative and you'll find it easier to make friends.

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FidomUK@reddit

You just described a lot of humanity.

I found all these sorts of people when I moved to rural England. Most hasn’t left the area for several generations. So it’s not unique to expats!

You just have to find your tribe wherever you land.

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hooberland@reddit

Idk sounds like you’re just being a toxic gossiper online instead… There’s some bad eggs where I am, but some great people too.

Especially your point No.2, shitting on people who make an effort to learn a language and adapt to life. Sounds like too much of a stereotype that you’re painting.

I can’t imagine anyone caring that much if you crave cheese or want to live in a nice apartment tbh.

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catmath_2020@reddit

We also have a expat church clique. I avoid anyone who calls them self an expat, I’m an immigrant.

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Bodoblock@reddit

I've always found "expat" crowds to be full of oddballs who are somewhat socially maladjusted. Especially if you meet them in more catered settings like meetups or WhatsApp groups. Even more so for the "digital nomad" crowds. They're just kinda weird in general (and usually not in a good way).

The best has always been just meeting people through work, friends-of-friends, and so on.

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Munmunz@reddit

This has been my experience to date, too.

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palbuddy1234@reddit

SE Asia kind of suffers from this, as the barrier of a visa is low, and being foreign kind of gives you that B-list celebrity status that with the honeymoon period is just so intoxicating. It really can go to your head with free dinners, a certain sense of authority (teaching, or entrepreneurship) and realizing you can get out of problems playing the foreign card.

Once you finish your honeymoon, and find out you can't use your foreignness to get out of long-term problems you either have to grow up, learn the language, figure out the society......but SE-Asia that's quite difficult, and to an extent locals do want you...but at a distance. Once you hit reality, that's a tough pill. Especially if going home is misery, and not really being that important anymore, or you really can't show up to work with a hangover and a smile. In SE Asia, just being a teacher or if you have your own business allows you to get away your troubles with a smile at work, and a certain level of authority. For some that's soothing to their aimless life and addicting.

To answer your question......I have a wife and kids, I seek people with spouses and kids as it keeps you normal and free from the drama you list above. There is a certain element of permanence and consequences for your actions. But yeah, after living in China I'd never raise a family there. It's just not stable in many ways.

If you're doing the middle-class thing....teaching or small business ownership have goals, save for your pension, look after your health....always know what you're there. That foreign bar is always there with people that will never hold you accountable, because if you are there, you don't want to be reminded that you have to do another visa run, or your girlfriend's parents despite their smiles want to see you making money as you're their pension. But there is a certain level of inertia and fear of the unknown that people realize once they've hit that long-term expat/immigrant status. I've seen it and for better or worse moved to a stable country.

Best of luck!

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RedPanda888@reddit

I live in Thailand so we have the full range here. Long term backpackers, teachers, sex tourists,, corporate workers, digital nomads, retirees, pedophiles, fugitives. The lot.

Generally, the easiest way to deal with it is simply make friends with people who are your vibe, and ignore everyone else. The range of bullshit and opinions you read online is just because of the huge range of people, personalities, social classes, life experiences that people have. But it’s just online talk, and typically it’s easy to avoid by not actually meeting these people in the real world.

I listened to a podcast a long time ago and it spoke about the phases of expat, from fresh off the boat semi tourists up to lifers. Everyone is insufferable at some point and generally everyone’s perceptions of the country change over time as do the complaints/praises. You just have to find people in the same “phase” as you and try and vibe with them as best you can.

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

I lived in Thailand before and this is pretty accurate, it's definitely got worse too as it's vogue to "move to Thailand and sell a course on how you can too". Bangkok might as well be the new Dubai. But I think Vietnam is even worse, just because Thailand has such a big expat community that no matter how you are, you'll probably find someone like-minded. Vietnam is a pure petri-dish for anyone who doesn't fit into the 3 main types.

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SuLiaodai@reddit

Do you have the missionaries too? I got hired at a workplace where everybody else was hired through a "company" that was really a religious organization. They weren't allowed to socialize with anybody outside of the group, and after their supervisor came, it got so weird that they would get up and leave if I came into the office. My friends had left during COVID so while I was working there I was pretty lonely!

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StarGazerFullPhaser@reddit

So which one are you? The stewing loner turned school shooter? You might have valid points, but the negativity guiding your analysis might say more about you than the folks you're judging.

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Captlard@reddit

Personally just have a friend network of “locals” with no expats. People are people.. most are great, there are always idiots everywhere to some extent.

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macado@reddit

Another bad one is the one upper, or the "it was better X years ago." They like to tell you how much better it was when they "discovered" it. Because they have been living there longer than you they know everything. Everything was better 10 or 20 years ago, things were cheaper, it was safer or quieter, it was more "authentic", you had to have been here 10 years ago to see what it was like. It was "better" before major retail chains or any globalization, before access to reliable electricity or water or internet. Everything was "ruined" by expats even though they themselves are an expat but they are "different" because they have been there longer.

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Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit (OP)

You should have been here before electricity was discovered, back when the locals used to communicate with smoke signals. That was the most authentic time.

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Environmental_Tap226@reddit

Better be a lone wolf. You ultimately learn to live like a wolf and a friend with the right mix of attitudes becomes a cherry on the cake.

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KTbees@reddit

My partner and I agree! I’ve lived in 10 countries on 3 continents and we find the expats in Vietnam to be particularly insufferable.