Military Aviators, did you start out as enlisted or go in as officers?
Posted by Jzerious@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 62 comments
Sorry if this is the wrong sub for this.
SPAWNmaster@reddit
Officer. off the street hired directly into my airframe. ANG is the way.
That being said every unit has different hiring cultures...some want to hire mostly internal, others hire mostly external, some want enlisted first, others could care less. More often than not if you hear any variety of "starting out enlisted gives you the best chance to try things and then become a pilot later" you should run. It's the longest road to get to flying and needlessly so. Same deal with people who want to become an air force pilot to get to airlines. It'll take 5years to go from zero to qualified and experienced in your USAF airframe then another year or two to transition to airlines (assuming you are guard and can actually do that...add another couple of years to that timeline if you are active duty). Or you could literally just power your way through civilian flight school and get hired within a year or two at regional airline.
Heavy_Preference_251@reddit
What were your stats as an off the street hire? Were you already a CFI? Or did you just have a degree and a PPL?
SPAWNmaster@reddit
I had a little bit of flying time as a PPL plus degree. This was back in 2014 when I started the process, wildly different times even though just a decade ago. I wouldn't be competitive these days. At the time I was a successful tech entrepreneur (took startup to IPO then spun off 3 aerospace companies and was skydiving full time as a passion project). I tested OK and interviewed well with my background. Mostly passed the bro check which was most important at the time I got hired by my first unit. These days most units are looking for more whole person concept and semi-formal qualifications to risk reduce selections since it just takes so long to get guys to/through school and the unit is investing a lot of faith. Last time I was on a hiring board a few years ago we had people with multiple advanced degrees from ivy leagues, letters of rec from service chiefs and senators, flight test experience, dad was a GO, etc...craziness man I wouldn't pass muster today lol.
Heavy_Preference_251@reddit
That sounds extremely competitive but I believe I have a shot. My unit is telling me they like to hire within the unit and they just need PPL and degree, but by the time I apply I will be a CFI so hopefully that gives me the leg up.
slyskyflyby@reddit
I did a little over 8 years enlisted and then commissioned to be a pilot about 4 years ago. Always been a guard baby.
Heavy_Preference_251@reddit
What was your job enlisted wise?
slyskyflyby@reddit
I was a Crew Chief on the KC-135.
Heavy_Preference_251@reddit
That’s awesome. I’m a load trying to do the same
immisternicetry@reddit
The majority start as officers, but it's not uncommon to have a handful in a squadron who were prior enlisted. In the Guard and Reserves, there is a much higher number of prior enlisted because they like to hire pilot applicants from within the unit.
DarthStrakh@reddit
Yeah on that last one boys. Don't do it. Dumb young me let the recruiter convince me that reserves was a better path to OCS and being a pilot. Apparently I'm gullible. Long story short it's not doable lol.
I got to my platoon told my Sgt I want to eventually he an officer and he laughed saying everyone here was doing the same thing and 1 guy had gotten it in the last decade...
They just want you to sign that dotted line for any job, any rank, period. Once they get you to after to give up your life, they got ya and that's all they needed.
srbmfodder@reddit
I tried in the Air Guard, a lot of guys didn't get to the board. Either didn't finish college, or didn't get any kind of flying done like a PPL. I boarded, didn't get selected.
Army WOFT is a good program and you don't need a degree. It's more or less a lot of finding a recruiter that will help you as well as getting all the crap you need done like the testing.
Own_Leadership7339@reddit
Funny enough, this is exactly what I'm doing. My recruiter said people who go straight to officer pilots have a lower chance over those who go enlisted and work with the planes instead. Don't know how much of it was lip service to get me to sign the contract, but whatever.
dumptruckulent@reddit
This has been said a million times for a million different reasons, but your recruiter lied to you.
Unless you’re going to the army where you literally don’t need to commission to become a pilot, there is no reason to enlist if that’s your end goal.
hallout4x4@reddit
As someone currently enlisted and trying to go officer the paths to do so are few and very competitive. Going officer first is much easier, your recruiter is straight up lying to you.
immisternicetry@reddit
Unless he's a Guard or Reserve recruiter (then there's a kernel of truth), he's either lying or ridiculously ill-informed.
Weaponized_Puddle@reddit
The guard/reserve recruiters I’ve spoken to have been pretty down to earth lol, when I mentioned maybe enlisting to a non-pilot flight crew role, the guys from both units basically said, “Eh, probably not the best option, but I’ll lyk if anything opens up.” Then just never got back to me.
flypiratefly@reddit
Your recruiter is screwing you.
kmac6821@reddit
Have a lower chance of what exactly? If they’re going in to be a pilot, that’s the most direct possible route there is.
CaribbeanPenguin@reddit
Officer. But don’t go military if you want to fly. Marines and Navy view you are officers first, ground job second, pilot third. Navy sends you on a boat for your last 24 months…. Coast guard sends you on a boat first 24 months. Air Force seems better. Your states are guard is the best option. If I had to do it all over I would go guard.
BeeDubba@reddit
Officer.
Don't EVER believe a recruiter who tells you to enlisted if you're interested in being a pilot. Some will straight up lie to meet their enlistment quotas.
BeeDubba@reddit
When i was brand new out of college we had a dishwasher on our ship who enlisted with a masters degree in aerospace engineering. The recruiter told her she had to enlist first in order to be be an officer or a pilot.
Luckily we got her into OCS and on her way in less than a year.
My experience was that recruiters have enlistment quotas, and getting someone into OCS or into one of the flight programs requires a lot more work that the recruiters get no benefit from. With most services behind enlistment quotas, it's a poorly designed system that doesn't benefit candidates.
hoosier06@reddit
Warrant flight program requires “enlisting” but with a 09w mos identifier.
ObeyYourMasterr@reddit
This exact thing happened to me
PieMan2k@reddit
You cannot be a pilot without being an officer. There are people who enlist before and transfer to become an officer later in their career but bottom line is you have to be an officer.
JT-Av8or@reddit
Yeah, they’re not “commissioned” officers. Nobody knows what to do with them 🤣 They’re allowed in the O-club but they’re still drawing dicks on everything.
hoosier06@reddit
Most accurate fucking statement ever lol.
kmac6821@reddit
Everyone but a WO-1 is commissioned.
slyskyflyby@reddit
Os still draw a lot of dicks haha
ManifestDestinysChld@reddit
My ex's brother retired as a CWO4 and that is the best description of him I have ever heard, lol
Prof_Button_presser@reddit
Started Enlisted, then went thru ROTC to Officer and UPT
RunAshamed@reddit
Officer. But go Guard/Reserve off the bat. Active Duty was the worse mistake of my life.
Heavy_Preference_251@reddit
Why was AD the worst mistake of your life? Is it really that bad in comparison to being guard/reserve off the bat?
Massive-Today-1309@reddit
Yep. Guard takes all the good deals and I’m stuck sitting bravo away from home
slyskyflyby@reddit
There's a lot of guard folks sitting in bravo with waived max FDPs right now too.
Heavy_Preference_251@reddit
Not yet a military aviator but I’m on my way there. Currently enlisted , and the pilots in my unit there’s a few who were prior enlisted as well!
theguineapigssong@reddit
Former Air Force pilot checking in. I started as an Officer. The shortest distance to any location is a straight line. If you want to be a military pilot, get your ducks in a row and proceed straight to commissioning. Enlisting first is not a good idea. It can be done, but you will always be one idiot supervisor who reads at a 4th grade level writing you a bad performance report away from having your dreams crushed. There's just soooooo much that can go wrong. Also, I have no idea what your recruiter told you about literally anything but I guarantee he's lying. If you want to be an Air Force pilot:
https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/forum/5-pilot-selection-process/
rickmaz@reddit
USAF Academy - then after being commissioned, straight to UPT
Dry_Statistician_688@reddit
Seems to be some confusion in this post. MANY aviators are prior enlisted. But they had to be like everyone else - get a degree, apply, and be accepted to a commissioning program. If you’re thinking you can just walk off the street with no degree and be an aviator…. Yeah. Heard this one before…. lol.
CrushClearedHot@reddit
Very few pilots are prior enlisted, they comprise the minority across all branches and airframes.
Fearless-Ad-9386@reddit
I enlisted after my Jr year of college. Got picked up by a flying squadron in my wing after I graduated. Did OTS, UPT, couple of deployments and upgraded to Aircraft Commander early. Got hired by a major ten years after I started the journey. Very lucky. I sit on our hiring board - we hire almost every prior E that we interview and we aren’t bashful about that. However, we hire off the street folks also. We get more of those applicants than prior E apps. We have several loads who found a way to do college while being on the road. Now they’re driver instead of riding. Good folks are leaving or retiring the Guard and Reserves for a number of reasons. If you have an interest - there is opportunity.
Fearless-Ad-9386@reddit
Enlisted Reservists after Jr year of college. Finished College Got PPL Got hired by Squadron in my wing UPT Flying Heavies within five years Hired at major ten years after I enlisted Guard or Reserve is an excellent way to go these days.
Longjumping_Panda531@reddit
Officer via OTS. We have several prior enlisted pilots in my squadron, but they are the minority (10% of our fliers). Guard squadrons will often hire from within, it’s common to see crew chiefs or loadmasters get degrees/PPLs and then get hired to fly.
Emotional-Contract25@reddit
In the national guard can you become a pilot only with a PPL and not have to get a degree?
DankVectorz@reddit
You can’t be an officer without a degree. You can’t be a pilot without being an officer. (Exception for helicopters where you can be a warrant officer)
pattern_altitude@reddit
Worth noting that exception only applies to the Army/Army National Guard -- USAF/USANG/AFRES pilots are all officers.
Emotional-Contract25@reddit
Thank you
usmcmech@reddit
No you have to get a degree and compete for an officer/pilot position.
A PPL certificate will help somewhat in that selection process but it’s not the slam dunk that some people think it is.
Emotional-Contract25@reddit
Ty
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
Officer Enlisted isn’t uncommon, but life has a tendency to get in the way. Also, “guaranteed interviews “ are absolutely worthless
WoundedAce@reddit
Do not drink the koolaid on enlisted first and then pilot
You must have a degree, you must be an officer
RealKimJongUn@reddit
went straight O
Senior-Reception6507@reddit
I started as a grunt
LittleUrbanAchiever@reddit
Enlisted, but not an aviation MOS. I originally signed up as a 13F (forward observer) for a 4yr commitment. One thing led to another and I ended up in OCS working with an aviation major. She walked me through the aviation testing process, and here we are today.
Note: this is national guard, so active duty experience will vary.
jamtillimpact@reddit
Enlisted! Got cut for Academy in the last round. Parents nor me could afford college. Joined right out of HS and worked my way through night classes and programs till I got where I wanted to be. Wasn’t easy but it was a blast with lots of memories and life lessons along the way.
thejewisheskimo@reddit
Street to seat - this is the way
WOFT
LuckyBob046@reddit
Officer via ROTC. I know a few folks who were prior enlisted. With the Air Force, though, it's a 10 year service commitment after getting your wings, so it's a big obstacle for prior enlisted and the timing has to work out right or they need to be prepared to extend past 20 years of service. Not sure about the other branches.
usmcmech@reddit
4 years enlisted + 2years of college (assuming you got some credits while enlisted) + 2 years of OCS/UPT + 10 years commitment = 18years before you can get a job at Delta.
And that’s the best case scenario.
JT-Av8or@reddit
You have to be an officer to be a pilot, and there are a few previous enlisted folks but not many.
PrettyPineapple461@reddit
I was ROTC!
Wonderful-Life-2208@reddit
It depends entirely on the branch. In the Army, all Warrants started out enlisted, or were street to seat and had to enlist to go to basic training before going to flight school. I had 13 years enlisted before I became a pilot
subarupilot@reddit
WOCS
rFlyingTower@reddit
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