Why have I never seen anyone recommending Ubuntu as a distro? By "never," I mean never.
Posted by chiya_coffee@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 439 comments
I’ve been exploring Linux distros for a while, and I’ve noticed that when people recommend distros, Ubuntu almost never comes up, despite being one of the most popular and user-friendly distros out there. I’m curious why that is. Is it that Ubuntu is too mainstream for hardcore Linux users, or do people simply prefer other distros for specific reasons?
SuAlfons@reddit
You are too new to Linux?
Ubuntu was the #1 recommendation to new users like Mint is today. That was before they pushed snap on everyone. (while it has its advantages, it has also its downsides and it had a much rougher start than the more open flatpak. One advantage is that snap can also deploy non-GUI apps, but let's not go down that rabbit hole)
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
um yes, i am a beginner and have used windows since childhood, recently interesting to know about linux and researching about distros and i am not seeing anyone's top choice as ubuntu
yall_gotta_move@reddit
I always recommend that beginners use either Fedora or Ubuntu
Why?
These distros have the largest communities, so bigger help forums, more guides are written for these specific distros, etc
Beginners don't yet have the expertise to even understand, let alone make an informed choice about, why you might choose a different distro for a different purpose
Beach-Comber-7@reddit
Fedora is now recommended for newbies to Linux? Not in my day. I might just check out the latest version to see how it compares to Mint etc. 🤔
Journeyj012@reddit
why not debian?
YKS_Gaming@reddit
debian is likely to not work if you are installing the latest hardware
j0n70@reddit
Arch has the best wiki
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
Weren't most of the helpful pages deleted?
redoubt515@reddit
?
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
I doin't remember details, might have been different distro (Gentoo?), but the story was that someone was tired of noobs using ArchWiki as noob-proof tutorials so they removed a lot of the easy explanations and kept only the hard technical info to make it for experts only.
I remember that Gentoo wiki died https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4ys03i/why_did_gentoo_peak_in_popularity_in_2005_then/d6q3flh/ so maybe I am just conflating some events.
TheOneTrueTrench@reddit
Arch's documentation is so good, that when I have problems with RHEL at work, I don't go to RedHat, the company that we pay for support, I go to the Arch wiki.
Jamie_1318@reddit
The good thing about the arch wiki in my experience is that 99% of it applies to stuff that isn't arch. You just ignore/replace anything with pacman in it and you are good to go.
determineduncertain@reddit
I’ve even found the Arch wiki handy a few times while doing stuff in BSD land.
MasterGeekMX@reddit
Packages too old.
yall_gotta_move@reddit
Edited my above post. See #3 that I added. Thanks!
driftless@reddit
I remember when they hooked up with Dell and had premade Ubuntu laptops with gnome2/compiz and I loved every minute I had with that thing…
KokiriRapGod@reddit
Dell still offers Ubuntu as an option for OS, actually. One of the reasons I snagged an XPS when I was shopping for a laptop.
Bestofthewest2018@reddit
I’m less than impressed of the support for my XPS9415. In 24.04 it’s a bitch to get the webcam working…
fleamour@reddit
Lenovo too, but save £25 no OS.
vishal340@reddit
I remember when there was a plan for Ubuntu on phone. I was interested to see the first linux on phone. No idea what happened but I always loved linux for its terminal and couldn't care less for all these gui stuff like gnome, kde etc. so on phone it would be useless from my perspective.
agent-squirrel@reddit
Ubuntu Touch still has development work being done for some unknown reason.
vibe_inTheThunder@reddit
Ubuntu Touch is honestly a really good experience, and I'm glad the people working in it are so passionate about it. In my experience it's a much smoother experience than postmarketOS (on a Google pixel 3a), if it wasn't for my phone's bad battery, I would definitely use it as my weekend phone.
Neener_Weiner@reddit
What do you mean by postmarketOS?
ciao1092@reddit
That's the name of a mobile OS
Neener_Weiner@reddit
Thanks for sharing! Haven't heard of it, looks very cool.
agent-squirrel@reddit
Sure but it has absolutely no momentum or marketing at all. A semi-large player like Canonical should put some weight behind it instead of it being some random employees side project. It seems like the sort of thing they will just get bored with and give up when they feel like it.
vibe_inTheThunder@reddit
It's not under canonical for some time now, they've abandoned it officially, and the ubports team picked it up alongside unity 8. They aren't related to canonical, and are working on it independently, so I guess it's understandable canonical isn't pushing it.
agent-squirrel@reddit
Ah I did not know this! Thanks for the update!
Major-Management-518@reddit
Ah yes, gnome 2 ... the days when gnome was usable.
OveVernerHansen@reddit
I spent so much time making Compiz (Beryl?) work two deceased ago. I loved it! That also introduced me to Nvidia drivers...
doubled112@reddit
Some people complain about the Nvidia drivers today, but they don't remember what the FGLRX driver was like then.
Needleworker91@reddit
Loved my dell mini 10 with Ubuntu preinstalled. It was literally how I discovered linux.
JagerAntlerite7@reddit
Dell still has great Ubuntu support, they just do not sell it pre-installed anymore. When I boot up I get a cool Dell logo with an Ubuntu icon below it even on newer models.
Scared_Bell3366@reddit
You can still get a Dell laptop with Ubuntu installed, I’ve got one from work.
flatline000@reddit
I bought one of those thinking all the hardware would be supported by the mainline kernel. I immediately put Gentoo on it and then had to wait 6 months before all the drivers were merged before I could stop using the Ubuntu kernel.
Nice machine, though. Lasted almost a decade.
esmifra@reddit
Those were the times, it was also very easy to change gnome 2 desktop and I remember a lot o people creating unique desktops and there was even a section on Ubuntu magazine that showed some of the best.
Junky1425@reddit
I really like snaps, I wanted to use flatpak and it was a horrorgame for me. Snap worked out of the box and I liked that. I switched to openSUSE I tried to bring snap running was not able to do :D
So now I use binary :D
And because snap works and apt works most of the time I recommend everyone Ubuntu and it's flavors.
esmifra@reddit
If you've been around even more you'll remember a time when Ubuntu and it's flavours was basically the only thing recommended for new users and was quite well regarded.
Then came the terrible unity desktop environment, MIR and Amazon ads and all of a sudden every person started avoiding Ubuntu and because Mint kept a more classic desktop environment and was known to be very polished everyone started migrating to Mint.
Oerthling@reddit
Unity was great.
Amazing-Mirror-3076@reddit
I'm assuming that was sarcasm?
Oerthling@reddit
Nope. Unity was the best DE I ever had the pleasure to use.
0 sarcasm.
It was very snappy, optimized use of vertical space, had a nice sidebar. Looked good, worked well. Lenses were nice.
Is your judgement based on the very first iteration when it was introduced? First semester or 2 was a rough start. But after that it worked well fairly quickly and later became great.
I still miss it, though Canonical managed to rebuild part of the L&L on top of GnomeShell now.
Amazing-Mirror-3076@reddit
It always felt like it was designed for people that used one app at a time (like OSX) - and I'm not that type of person.
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
OS X and macOS don’t just run one app at a time. What do you mean? I literally have twenty applications open right now on my computer with, like, 30 overlapping windows. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you.
Amazing-Mirror-3076@reddit
I'm not saying that you can't run more than one app at a time just that the desktop didn't make layout/navigation fluid.
This is going back a few years so probably has improved.
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
Oh, no, you’re right about that. Apple always tries to reinvent the wheel. Like its implementation of window management is terrible. And it’s only gotten worse since you tried it. I just misunderstood what you meant. You’re absolutely right. It’s a mess in that department.
getbusyliving_@reddit
Sure is. Thankfully there is Rectangles which helps fix the problem.....still, it's no KDE or Gnome. And then there's Finder, oh boy
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
I’ll have to check out Rectangles. I used to use some pseudo-WM, but I can’t for the life of me remember its name. And, yeah, Finder is so neglected. If I were Apple, I would dedicate more resources to one of my most iconic (literally, in the case of the Finder icon) applications. It’s kind of an important part of the OS, it being the main way users interact with the file system and all. I miss the days of Beryl/Compiz Fusion. I’ll never forget that smooth-ass cube animation. That’s what brought me to download my first Linux distro.
pandaSmore@reddit
I find navigation super smooth on MacBooks. You can do a lot with 3 fingers and a trackpad.
Oerthling@reddit
Neither am I. Perhaps you're referring to the global menu?
That could always be turned off and I always used local menus.
And there's nothing that kept you from having any number of apps running at the same time - which I did all the time.
esmifra@reddit
This just proves there's something for everyone...
More like broken for the first 2 years. The dual monitor experience was terrible, the side bar was not editable, and so many stupid bugs for I don't recall how long...
You do you mate. Glad you like it. But it definitely wasn't "awesome" for the vast majority of users.
cgoldberg@reddit
Unity was "awesome" for me... favorite DE of all time.
Oerthling@reddit
The vast majority of users had no problem with it. They just used it for years.
It wasn't broken for 2 years. I was there for all of it.
Dunno what you wanted to edit in the sidebar. For people who want super-configurable KDE exists. For plenty of people pin to sidebar, change position, show dot for running instances was all that's needed.
Preferences differ of course and if it wasn't for you then it wasn't for you. We don't all like the same things. But Unity was a good and functional DE for many years. It still has fans and a project that maintains a fork.
fortean@reddit
Unity was awesome and a part of their users left the distro when they dropped it. I was one of them. I understand the reason I just don't care.
I use Ubuntu and gnome again now and it's fine, but I just wonder how unity would be now.
I've used Linux since yggdrasil and before Ubuntu I was on Gentoo. Good times.
tardis0@reddit
There's a unity fork out there
No-Author1580@reddit
Unity was amazing. Killing it off was one of the dumbest things Canonical have ever done. GNOME 3 is still a shitshow.
pandaSmore@reddit
Meh I prefer Gnome 2
-main@reddit
It started with Upstart.
pakovm@reddit
I used to be an Ubuntu evangelist, it was the best distro around, even when nobody wanted to use Unity as a desktop (time proved it was actually an amazing DE), but Snaps got me out of Ubuntu, they could have simply adopted flatpaks but nope, they had to fragment the only thing that would actually get developers to pack their software for Linux and users to use it without breaking their heads about it.
Snaps really fucked up the UX of that distro.
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
Uh, are you talking about AppImages?
Because AppImage is from 2004, Snap from 2014, and Flatpak from 2015. If you want to complain about re-developing the wheel, it is often NOT Canonical. They just suck at getting the community adoption and have less money to pour into it than RedHat, so their solution end up dominating.
redoubt515@reddit
> Because AppImage is from 2004, Snap from 2014, and Flatpak from 2015
It doesn't matter how many times people are reminded of this fact.
Just like the rest of Reddit, Linux subreddits will always choose their own biases over reality when the two conflict. People will continue to rewrite history to fit their narrative (at the moment that Narrative is Snap = Bad, Canonical = Bad).
imradzi@reddit
i don't understand what's the problem people hate snap so much. It's just an app installer. You don't install app everyday.
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
I started hating snaps after they continued to hijack my Firefox. Turns out that the automatic upgrades (or how it is called) ignore apt settings and kept reinstalling snap firefox over the ppa one.
This is documented exactly nowhere. If snap had better way to handle priorities and they felt much more optional than forced, I would be fine with them, in many ways they are superior product if you need some command line tools that are not in repos.
domoincarn8@reddit
There is, and apt can be made to honour no-snap configs. I have been doing this since 2020 LTS. It is the first thing I do on a brand new install.
Though I use Kubuntu, rather than plain Ubuntu, so I am not stuck with a lot of bloat.
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
Yes, but as I just told you, there is unattended upgrades, which ignore apt setting and need their own special setting.
domoincarn8@reddit
unattended-upgrades is a separate service (like automatic updates on Fedora). And just like any other service, you can stop it or remove it entirely.
sudo apt purge unattened-upgrades
is my favorite way of banishing them.
SuAlfons@reddit
I today read an April Fools prank about a snap of the whole base system. It was so well written that I wonder if the only thing wrong in the article might have been the date of the roll out.
Flatpak can't deploy non-GUI apps, snap can. Snap also floods your system with a lot of those loop back devices ? Anyway, it's a very complicated and slow solution when all you want as a consumer is an easy way to install apps (like flatpak us). And snaps till today are only deployed through Canonicals server, although some people insist it's also a free solution. I stopped bothering and switched away from Ubuntu after loving to use it for years.
nhaines@reddit
Ubuntu Core has been a thing for like a decade.
Ubuntu Core Desktop is also a thing and I've run it on computers at an expo booth. (Last year it wouldn't support the Wi-Fi card on the machine and Ken VanDine determined the kernel was too old but was working in what would become Ubuntu 24.04 LTS a month later and he built a new image for us overnight before he left the next morning.
It's a fantastic system and I'm looking forward to using it on my writing computer or something. (It's snap only, but you could do whatever you want in a container, and I think making that less manual is part of the delay.)
SuAlfons@reddit
I'll add that snap predates Flatpak. Flatpak was planned as a truly open container format for desktop apps. It is simpler, yet also limited vs. Snap.
redoubt515@reddit
Regardless of your feelings about snap, you cannot blame Ubuntu for not choosing a technology that (1) didn't even exist when they began developing snap, and (2) wouldn't achieve their goals even if it had existed at the time.
FWIW, I prefer flatpak on desktop, but I get frustrated by the amount of misinfo on reddit about snaps.
Neener_Weiner@reddit
I love everything about your comment.
thafluu@reddit
It's not really that they developed Snaps, but that they made the Snap Store proprietary.
Glass-News-9184@reddit
I've never understood the a priori snap hate but the fact is I regularly get into permission issues with snap-based apps. When they crash, I find them difficult to debug as the only symptom is usually them not starting at all. When run in a terminal, the permission problem isn't usually obvious. The plasma discover (I'm on KDE) used to provide GUI to define permissions for the snap apps but I cannot find it anymore. Stiil you'd never know if it's a mount drive, network access issue or anything else. Ditto for app icons, default location in HOME etc.
Still, I assume I'm doing something wrong and should find some time to learn more (using different flavors of Ubuntu for the last 15 years or more).
degaart@reddit
Ahem. Ubuntu used upstart before switching to systemd. It used unity before switching to gnome shell.
Why wan’t they do the same for flatpaks?
agent-squirrel@reddit
Thank you for an actual sane response. People foaming at the mouth need to chill and realise these facts.
AdAmazing4260@reddit
I don't understand ? You can install Ubuntu os and install flatpak in and you may not use snaps.
pakovm@reddit
At that point why use Ubuntu at all? Just use something that won't break and wont leave you in dependency hell with every update.
AdAmazing4260@reddit
Not wrong! We'll say it's for love in the world.
Error_No_Entity@reddit
Unity was an amazing DE? I'd like whatever you're smoking, my dude.
pseudonym-161@reddit
Unity is like what you give to a small child to put on their generic tablet, but I also said the same about gnome until you tweak it out with extensions.
youaresecretbanned@reddit
the only forced snap is firefox, everything else you can do as you like
hobo_stew@reddit
maybe then sudo apt install should install the actual software instead of a snap
elasticvertigo@reddit
Ubuntu forces the snap version when you update even if you have done the apt install.
landsoflore2@reddit
Thunderbird is also snap-only by default.
paholg@reddit
I swear I've seen others. Regardless, doing
apt install
and getting an error telling you to use some other tool instead is a terrible new user experience.If they want to push snaps, they should either ensure that all packages are there and deprecate apt, or make apt also manage snaps.
I would not recommend Ubuntu to new Linux users these days just for that reason.
SuAlfons@reddit
I took this as the beginning and left before Canonical even rolled out that version.
Used PopOS for some time, then Manjaro GNOME and now EndeavourOS with Plasma on my main PC.
RaXXu5@reddit
You can have command line flatpaks, but running them with flatpak run gets a bit tedious.
mrtruthiness@reddit
Are you sure? Does the flatpak have access to stdin/stdout from the terminal and can the output be piped??? AFAICT the flatpak brings up its own terminal.
Also: You really can't have flatpak daemons --> flatpak is "seat based". And you can't have containers as flatpaks. Both of these roles are served by snaps.
RaXXu5@reddit
I know that atleast the ncspot flatpak works in the cli, which abilities it has I am unsure of. So cli flatpalks are possible, but like all flatpaks you might be trading somethings for the sandboxing.
SuAlfons@reddit
yeah, that makes sense
JolokiaKnight@reddit
This is the perfect reply and also my experience. Also left when snaps got annoying. Used to love Ubuntu.
No-Floor2124@reddit
That has actually started WAAAAAAAAY before snap. The introduction of Unity as a desktop environment was a major sour spot not only because people didn't like it but also because the system search sent everything straight to amazon.
Helmic@reddit
The used to was before the snaps thing. Ubuntu had a reputation for being user friendly because it was really the first distro that tried to be user friendly, with a GUI installer and GUI's for everything. Nowadays, that's simply not special anymore, there's distros downstream of every major distribution that have the same "user friendly" features Ubuntu has. Hell, I don't even think Mint is really the be-all end-all beginner distro recommendation these days as Bazzite's very well suited to playing games with more recent drivers and immutable distros in general are a lot more reselient to user or packaging errors (ie, Steam cannot uninstall GNOME in a way that can't be fixed with a reboot).
Ubuntu's just generally behind other distros these days, and anything it puts out that is good is gonna be copied by a distro that's willing to do more for the user. Which is still fine, Ubuntu is upstream of many of those distros, but I think Ubuntu's best thought of these days as a project that's upstream of many good user friendly distros, just as Debian is upstream of Ubuntu.
thomasfr@reddit
I don't know how you manage to get annoyeb by them. My machine only has 11 snaps installed and three of them are components of snap istself so it's not like it has taken over the OS (yet).
sparky8251@reddit
Tbh, I find they integrate very poorly and sadly more and more stuff that integrates poorly is being provided only via snap...
Easy example is alternative shells. My WSL work setup is buggy af because the shell installed via snap 9/10 times will not pick up the disk properly on shell start, causing it to fail to load startup scripts that put things into my PATH I need.
Ive had similar problems with dev tools not playing nice too, somehow not being able to find each other consistently...
thomasfr@reddit
what is an "alternate shell"?
Most of the time you can just install the non snap version of a package.
I have never seen a shell being distributed as a snap and I can see how that would be problematic.
I tend to build a lot of packages from source and use clang/gcc/go/python/rust/haskell (and other sdks) a lot.
I think I have many of them installed not using the os packages at all. For clang/gcc I have the os provided ones installed but I also have other ones because some projects require specific versions of the compilers.
Some times I build the tools I use from source as well, depends on what I need.
I also don't use the default desktop environment of any distro because I run my own tiling window manager.
It is likley that I just don't see many of the issues people might have with snaps because I never seem to install them.
sparky8251@reddit
Sadly, nushell is only available via snap at least in 24.04.
Also, sure... I could build from source, or not use ubuntu which is the only distro that packages nu as a snap with no other choice.
Same for helix and some LSP servers I've needed. Only snaps now...
thomasfr@reddit
I build from source in any ditro beause it is the most flexible solution and it's easy to troubeshoot using git bisect if I suspect that bugs have been introduced.
I have never used nushell but it sure looks like they have their own apt repository you can add
From their documentation:
Same for helix https://docs.helix-editor.com/package-managers.html#ubuntudebian
MrHighStreetRoad@reddit
They were bad at the start. The store was bad, the upgrade experience was bad, the sandboxing got in the way, and it took a while for packaging quality.
It's so much better now.
SuAlfons@reddit
I was more annoyed with the mode Canonical rolled out snaps. In the beginning, installing anything as snap was optional - and it didn't work well.
With snaps being served by Canonical's grace only, this wasn't what I wanted for myself. I tried out a lot of other distros and all of them worked great, too. Thanks to the pioneering of Ubuntu, all were easy to setup. I have my main PC on EndeavourOS now and my old laptop is kind of a testbed for different stuff. Right now triple boots Fedora, ChromeOS Flex and Win11.
Minteck@reddit
Ubuntu was my first distro precisely because it didn't have Snap at the time. Now that it forces Snap on me even after I uninstalled it, I usually go with Fedora instead
person1873@reddit
There was also the whole Amazon debacle that unfairly lost canonical a lot of trust from the community.
That was over a decade ago and they still haven't earned back our trust.
crackez@reddit
Last time Ubuntu was recommended by anyone in the know was more than 20 years ago.
gliitch0xFF@reddit
Minty Freshness. 😁
RAMChYLD@reddit
It's not that.
Ubuntu went down Microsoft's route and added telemetry that sent everything you typed into the search bar to Amazon. They also do this without consent. Needless to say people were pissed off when they found out.
Darkleaf_Music@reddit
💯 Snaps made me leave Ubuntu. It turned my programs into immutable black boxes with no access to any data or devices. Worse than useless!
FreedomNinja1776@reddit
I started with version 5 and left Ubuntu when Canonical they made their patent partnership with Microsoft. Think the last version I used was probably 12. Moved to mint then upstream to Debian.
jr735@reddit
This. Despite my criticisms of Canonical over the past many years, one cannot underestimate their role in making Linux accessible. Ubuntu is what got me into it.
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
Why can't flatpak run non-GUI applications?
crazyguy5880@reddit
I keep hoping I'll read an announcement they're moving away from it like they moved to systemd, gnome etc.
linuxlifer@reddit
Ubuntu just has a history of making decisions that go against the communities desires.
I can only date myself back so far in the linux world but one of the first things Ubuntu did in my linux time that people didn't like was moving to their own Unity desktop. Unity was bad at first and generally hated across the board. It did in the long run get developed into a decent desktop environment but it still wasn't loved by the community at large.
One of the next things they did shortly after moving to their own unity desktop was introduce some sort of integration with amazon services that meant by default you got some shortcuts to amazon on your icon bar plus I think maybe there was some integration with Amazon in the desktops search function. You had to manually opt out to get out of this which many people didn't like.
The next thing they did that people really didn't like was moving to their own snap packages as opposed to just using flatpaks. Linux has always had an issue with packaging formats and so when ubuntu opted to use their own snap format instead of using flatpak it was a pretty widely hated decision.
I am sure there are a lot more but those are the big ones that I can remember. So its not that ubuntu isn't a user friendly distribution, its more that Canonical has just turned a lot of people against them.
cup_of_squirrel@reddit
You’re forgetting they’re now planning on ditching GNU core utils and rewriting them in Rust. They’re calling them uutils and going with MIT license.
domoincarn8@reddit
Snaps predate flatpaks and have more features (flatpaks can only run desktop apps, snaps can run services and cli programs as well), so its not Ubuntu's fault.
Gnome 3 was an unusable mess and complete and utter shit. Unity then was far far more usable than Gnome3. Unity came to be when Gnome2 got replaced by Gnome 3, which was a buggy, laggy, and highly opinionated featureless crap. Gnome 3 (when it came around) was competing against Windows 8, and losing in usability. People preffered Windows 8 to Gnome 3, that's how bad Gnome 3 was. And this was Windows 8, not Windows 8.1 (which improved Windows 8 a lot).
Unity was an answer to an issue that anybody could see. This is why Mate and Cinnamon happened, Gnome 3 was an unusable buggy resource heavy featureless mess. Nobody wanted to use Gnome 3. And Unity was liked by a lot. It was snappy and did the job and pioneered a lot of features which Gnome later copied.
linuxlifer@reddit
Yeah I don't really know much information behind snaps / flatpak... I just know that the greater community was mad that Ubuntu opted to go with snaps instead of flatpak out of the box.
As for unity, it was awful when it first came out. 90% (at least of the outspoken people) hated unity. It got better over time and ultimately got to a point where people were actually not entirely happy when Ubuntu opted to abandon unity.
HoustonBOFH@reddit
You left out the Pulse Audio fun. Even if it wasn't just Ubuntu...
linuxlifer@reddit
Ahhh darn lol. That may have been before my linux time or maybe it was when I moved away from linux for a little while.
Unfortunately, despite my username, I mostly use windows right now because I play Rust which doesn't work on Linux anymore. Linux has become more of a hobby for me right now.
YKS_Gaming@reddit
and wayland, or more specifically, gnome wayland(i.e. mutter)
HoustonBOFH@reddit
Actually, I think they handled Wayland much better. It was optional for a much longer time so more stable when it started being the default.
SenoraRaton@reddit
The amazon ads in Ubuntu 12.10 were the last straw for me.
I left Canonical software and swore never to touch another of their products. Its been 12 years now I guess. I don't miss it.
Additional-Sky-7436@reddit
The short answer: Linux users don't like being told what to do.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
Don't tell me what I like and don't like! ;)
Additional-Sky-7436@reddit
"I will make myself absolutely miserable just so I don't have to use these fairly useful features of Windows that most people like. Because **** Microsoft!"
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
Microsoft doesn't produce anything I want or like anymore. They haven't since MS-DOS 3.3, Win 98se and Windows 7.
Additional-Sky-7436@reddit
Like I said. "**** Microsoft".
I generally agree.
Tzctredd@reddit
Because you must be like 12 years old....
peace-machine@reddit
I recommend you to install Ubuntu.
GhostInThePudding@reddit
These days, there is basically no reason to use Ubuntu as a desktop OS. It's still used a lot for servers, because a lot of software is tested and proven to run on it. But for Desktop OSs, for basically any use case, there is a better option, even if it is something based on Ubuntu, like Mint.
wisearid@reddit
Snap
Junky1425@reddit
I recommend everyone Ubtuntu because that's that I used a really long time and I'm happy with it. I don't recommend someone anything which I never tried. So my distros are: - Debian - Ubtuntu - Arch - SLES - now openSUSE Tumbleweed
So that's what I can recommend
EggFuture5446@reddit
Snap packages, privacy concerns, and in my anecdotal experience apt has a tendency to straight up stop talking to ppas if you don't update for months. This is especially noticeable since I'll typically use Ubuntu for an install that isn't "mine". There's a desktop in the shop bay at work that I threw Ubuntu on. It runs Firefox and Spotify, and that's all it will ever need to do. So I didn't update it for months (truth be told, I just wasn't working in the shop), and now it will not fetch updates.
If you're looking into Ubuntu, just start out on Mint. Idk what they're using for package management, etc., but Ubuntu has landed itself squarely inline with ZorinOS. Disappointing at best, insecure and invasive at worst.
BaileysOTR@reddit
I test cloud systems and it's the #1 OS I see, especially since CentOS stopped being free.
carlwgeorge@reddit
CentOS is still free. Why do you think it isn't?
Klutzy_Article3097@reddit
Everywhere ive worked the debate has always been Debian vs. Ubuntu and they both have equal amount of fanboys
Happy-Range3975@reddit
Because it’s a corporate distro and snap packages do not align with the OSS community that well. Linux Mint is better in almost every way.
worddodger@reddit
But no Wayland support.
domoincarn8@reddit
wdym? Ubuntu has had wayland support from since 18.04 LTS (as far as I can remember.)
worddodger@reddit
Was talking about Mint.
MulberryDeep@reddit
Kde and gnome on mint have wayland support
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
could you please elaborate more?, i am interested to know more about this.
MulberryDeep@reddit
Ubuntu made their own package format (snaps) and they force you to use it in ubuntu, if you forcefully remove them and want to for example use the firefox deb instead of snap, it will be reverted at the next update
Snaps are known to be slow af and also any linux distro forcing you to use their shit is a nogo
Odd-Possession-4276@reddit
Skill issue
AmarildoJr@reddit
This shouldn't even be a thing, specially for a distro that is recommended for novice users. Canonical is becoming the next Microsoft, with r*pist mentality: "you will use what we force you to and you won't be able to do anything about it".
Odd-Possession-4276@reddit
Snap is solving multiple corporate goals of Canonical:
Ubuntu IoT provides exactly what the customers are paying for.
Snap-packaged user-facing stuff like Firefox solves maintenance burden issues and simplifies extended support.
There are examples of "wow, this snap thing is actually useful" in self-hosting space. E.g, snap Nextcloud is easier to maintain than an OCI-packaged one.
Ubuntu Core can be a different take on zero maintenance immutable distribution.
Livepatch is cool for the same reason why Ksplice is.
The default experience is annoying for power users, but it's still easy to bend into the right direction (self installing snap firefox example is a trivial apt pin priority case, it's not even snap specific, just a situation of package being available from multiple origins). For novice users it's at least a way to have an always up-to date browser, which is a good thing if your user base is big enough to employ top-down security measures.
"Evil Canonical is using its users as guinea pigs for their for-profit goals" is an understandable take, but it more or less the same with Fedora and openSUSE.
AmarildoJr@reddit
The question is not "Ubuntu has snaps" or "it makes sense in some cases", but "Ubuntu doesn't really make it possible to not use it".
I get that there are cases where it's useful, and for those specific uses it's fine. But it should really be opt-in, specially considering how the backend isn't FOSS. I find it funny that I even have to say something like this for a Linux distro.
In many ways, I thank the Linux Mint people. Ever since it's inception they've been fixing Ubuntu's mistakes.
domoincarn8@reddit
In Firefox's case, it was Mozilla which wanted snap (for ease of upgrade and maintenance) rather than Canonical.
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
thank you
SUPREMACY_SAD_AI@reddit
lmao
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
do you not agree with him?
SUPREMACY_SAD_AI@reddit
Not at all.
"Better in almost every way" is almost entirely subjective, and the flagship feature of Linux mint (Cinnamon) is some weird bastardized version of Gnome from like a decade ago, hacked together and pissing memory so much the developers don't even know what's going on so they just put a cap on how much memory it can use.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/02/linux_mint_fix_for_memorygobbling/
Other than that, it's literally just Ubuntu with a bunch of green sprinkles all over it.
Happy-Range3975@reddit
This is an article from 4 years ago…
rosebytee@reddit
I mean it's a hella lot more recent than the whole Amazon situation from 12 years ago people were bringing up.
Happy-Range3975@reddit
But the Amazon thing is a breach of trust. Very different set of circumstances.
kaskoosek@reddit
Mint is trash for software development and stability compared to ubuntu.
PWNY_EVEREADY3@reddit
How is Ubuntu better than Mint for software development?
kaskoosek@reddit
The packages are much more stable and tested. Its less prone to breakage.
Ive tried mint had some issues with it.
Happy-Range3975@reddit
I’d rather use Arch for software dev.
Cold-Echidna-9348@reddit
I honestly can’t get along with such a kiosk feeling GUI, I grew up with windows 3.2 and 95
DunamisMax@reddit
I’m officially here to break the streak: I recommend Ubuntu.
I’ve spent years working with just about every major Linux distro—both on the desktop and server side—and Ubuntu remains my go-to. With over a decade of Linux/Unix experience under my belt, I can confidently say Ubuntu strikes the best balance between usability, community support, and long-term stability.
Whether you’re setting up a personal machine or deploying a server, Ubuntu just works. In fact, Ubuntu Server is, in my opinion, the best Linux server OS out there.
So there you go. You’ve now seen someone recommend Ubuntu—loud and clear.
SirTwitchALot@reddit
If you're rolling a server for yourself sure. In my professional experience, no companies I've worked with use distros like Ubuntu or Mint. It's Redhat, SuSE, or OEL, and they always have support contracts with those vendors. Occasionally we'll inherit a system from some startup that was on a budget but has grown to the point that they're mainstream. It's usually a struggle getting these systems into a proper enterprise hosting environment
SpaceCadet2000@reddit
I've found that it doesn't do anything better than plain Debian and I found it a lot harder to work with, because they tend to change around things a lot between different major releases for no good reason.
I finally had enough of it when they ditched kickstart in favor of cloudinit. Just took my kickstart.cfg file and adapted it for Debian and never looked back.
DunamisMax@reddit
Can’t go wrong with Daddy Debian!
domoincarn8@reddit
You can. The no non-free thing means a lot of hardware just plain doesn't work outside of the box. Fixing and maintaing your patches is not a job you want to do.
Ubuntu Server does it for you. No hassles and easy support (should you need it). Plus you can get security updates with ESR.
Validating code runs on the new OS every 2-5 years a major pain and a cost no one wants to pay for. Plus it disrupts already working and stable services, services for which customers are paying for and rely on. In their minds, the early teething issues are gone and now things just work. You DO NOT want that to change just because you have to update the OS for security concerns.
bofkentucky@reddit
Unless your leaders want to pay for a support contract.
and in the dark ages, installing it on bare-metal was an adventure (broadcom firmware blobs meant dell servers didn't have usable nics)
h0t_gril@reddit
Maybe I'm not legit enough, but I've never noticed a real difference between Ubuntu Server and Debian. They both work fine. I use Ubuntu Server just cuz.
SpaceCadet2000@reddit
For day to day system administration, sure.
However, I have a system where I have automated the provisioning of new virtual machines. With one command, I can spin up a new vm which then boots off the network using pxe, installs the OS using kickstart (for RHEL derivatives) or preseed (Debian/Ubuntu) and then configures it the way I expect it. It saves me a lot of time not having to do the same boring configuration all over again each time I spin up a VM to try something out.
I used to use Ubuntu as my "apt" distro, but I found that every release I had to put in a lot of work to make it work with that system. Netplan, cloudinit, snaps, ... every release there was something else I had to deal with or work around.
Cloudinit was the straw that broke the camel's back. Not only would I have to ditch my preseed setup and rewrite it to something entirely Ubuntu specific, but I also couldn't spin up tiny VMs anymore, because cloudinit requires that the entire ISO installation image can be loaded into memory. So I was looking at 4GB VMs at a minimum.
Then I realized that reliable old Debian was there all the time and it was just as up-to-date and usable as any Ubuntu LTS release, and as you say for day to day use it's pretty much the same as Ubuntu Server, so what's the point again of using a Debian derivative that Ubuntu has breathed on and that messes up my workflow every release, instead of the original?
Anyway, I took my preseed file from 18.04, adapted it for Buster, and my setup has worked with hardly any modifications from Buster to Bullseye to Bookworm, and so far seems to be working fine for the upcoming Trixie as well.
ArmadilloLoose6699@reddit
Snap! (Pun intended)
I've been using the LTS versions of Ubuntu for years. I think the reason it doesn't seem to be "as recommended" is that Ubuntu doesn't draw YouTubers with magpie tendencies or noisy "bro" types that want to flex on everyone else with their distro choices. We tend to be quite a chill bunch that just want to get crap done with the least hassle possible. :)
SpaceCadet2000@reddit
What are those?
ArmadilloLoose6699@reddit
Generally speaking, and in my experience, when people first start out with Linux they often "distro hop" until they find their fit, and then stick with it until it no longer meets their needs.
Certain YouTubers have a tendency of eternally distro hopping, which gives them a slightly skewed view of how most people actually use Linux when they talk about it. Low effort review videos of "new shinies" do well with the YouTube algorithm, as do videos that rag on relatively minor problems with straightforward workarounds that they could've found fairly quickly if they'd bothered to look for them up beforehand.
To confirm, I'm not casting aspertions about people who enjoy running bleeding edge distros, upgrade every six months, or follow the rolling release model. I personally prefer LTS releases because I don't have the time & energy to be an enthusiast like that. When I went to try out a distro, I tend to just do it in a virtual machine.
SpaceCadet2000@reddit
So like a magpie who seeks new shiny stuff all the time? Got it.
Honestly never heard that expression before.
jeremyckahn@reddit
I'm happy as a clam with Ubuntu. It's the only distro I install. It's great!
ChundelateMorcatko@reddit
Plus one. A quarter of a century ago I enjoyed compiling everything from scratch. Not anymore. I finally learned to work around the few things that bother me and I've gotten it so far that I use it on the server as well. In short, I'd rather invest that time elsewhere, I've been running Ubuntu on everything for the last few years. People use applications, not OS.
bethemogator@reddit
Canonical, the company that owns Ubuntu, has made some decisions in the past that are truly head scratchers. They have a tendency to try to solve problems that are already being worked on with their own solutions. That's probably the biggest driving factor.
A few years back they really pissed people off by adding Amazon search results directly into the launcher and that one was a step too far for most.
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
Actually, no, that would be Red Hat.
Hate the technical side of their projects, but they often either predate the later popular solution, or in case of Mir or Unity, the popular solution (Wayland, Gnome3) was essentially dead at the time.
5lipperySausage@reddit
Haha this is the most uninformed comment here.
PityUpvote@reddit
Somehow Fedora/Red Hat has been betting on the right horse time after time: systemd, pulseaudio, flatpak, wayland, gnome shell. It's okay to reinvent the wheel if the only existing wheel isn't particularly round.
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
So now is the argument that reinventing wheel is good?
The only way products are good is because someone poured a lot of resources into them. Which Red Hat can, Canonical is comparatively small company (with shitty hiring practices and questionable business choices)
Why they didn't poured resources into current projects instead of starting their own thing from scratch? This is exactly what people are criticizing Canonical for.
WokeBriton@reddit
If you think doing so isn't good, wouldn't it be fair to say that using KDE 1 is a good idea? Version 2 was reinventing the wheel.
Yes, it IS a deliberately ridiculous example, but it fits your opening sentence.
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
No, please, no.
You are jumping in the middle of a conversation without even properly understanding what the conversation is about. Please read the whole thread, starting with "Why Canonical is bad," where the argument was "much reinventing wheels.". After showing that all these wheels was something new and the products that are supposed to be reinvented came later, another guy jumped and said "Akthually, reinventing wheels good". After my rebuke where I try to mirror the arguments why Canonical bad back at Red Hat, you come with "So you think reinventing wheel is bad?"
WokeBriton@reddit
I understand what the conversation is about.
I was pointing to your opening sentence being bloody stupid.
Good day to you.
PityUpvote@reddit
The argument is that not all wheels are worth reusing. Specifically in the case of software, initial design philosophy can be a hindrance in the long term.
Fedora has a habit of adopting new tech before it's ready, but that turns out to be a good way to get the community involved early in the process and ending up with widespread adoption.
paradigmx@reddit
Lately I equate Ubuntu with Red Hat. It's an enterprise distro.
Amazing-Mirror-3076@reddit
I used gnome on Ubuntu through that entire period. The unity UI was awful. Wayland still has problems.
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
At that time, Gnome 3 was a tragedy stuck in development hell and Ubuntu wanted something that would work on mobile phones and tablets. Coming from Gnome 2 to Unity or Gnome 3 was a horrible experience so I wont dispute this experience (went to XFCE eventually for Gnome 2-like experience), but seems that a substantial number of people liked Unity.
Amazing-Mirror-3076@reddit
I moved from gnome 2 to 3 and instantly loved it.
I felt there was a whole part of the community that hated it because it was different.
whosdr@reddit
A few years? I thought that was closer to a decade ago now.
bethemogator@reddit
Yeah 12 years ago.... Damn I'm old.
pandaSmore@reddit
Me too
whosdr@reddit
I'm not gonna hold that against them at this point (also I wasn't in the Linux ecosystem when it happened).
But there are a lot more recent examples that are more than enough that I wouldn't recommend it outright.
SolidOshawott@reddit
More than a decade, like 12 or 13
w1bm3r@reddit
It's like they want to be the competitor to other open source projects. Not because they think they can make it better, but because they think they have to.
TheOneTrueTrench@reddit
This was the exact moment I wiped Ubuntu from every machine I owned, and to this day, I refuse to even entertain it for a second. That wasn't a step too far, that was a giant leap forward toward selling access to me and my data, and Canonical proved to me on that day that they WILL sell access to my computer to a high enough bidder. So they don't get installed anywhere, ever.
Ugly_Slut-Wannabe@reddit
Canonical reminds me of Microsoft in some of the worst ways possible.
TheNewl0gic@reddit
Yup, that's one of many. Makes no sense...
fffff807aa74f4c@reddit
I remember that and it was one reason I stopped using it.
i__hate__stairs@reddit
D:
r_search12013@reddit
for along time ubuntu had amazon integrated .. that's when I jumped the ubuntu ship .. ubuntu is basically the windows of linux distros :D
domoincarn8@reddit
No, it didn't. Amazon search results were only in one LTS version and they were opt in later on in LTS as well. 2016 LTS dropped them.
The Windows of Linux distros is actually CentOS and RHEL. Just see the mayhem caused by CentOS being changed entirely to CentOS Stream. That was a major disrupter and no one is pointing at RHEL.
r_search12013@reddit
wasn't there quite some time in which amazon was always part of the sidebar? .. possibly it's been only one lts then for many users that still means 2 years
Wu_Fan@reddit
People are dumb and people on this sub are nerds who like the new thing me included
Gallogeta@reddit
I have xubuntu
skinnyraf@reddit
I recommend Ubuntu/Kubuntu, and many blogs and articles still do. It's still one of the best choices for less technical users. And Ubuntu has been the default for so long, that many guides and solutions are written with Ubuntu in mind.
I used Debian for almost 20 years, but I struggled because the stable releases were outdated at the moment of release, even testing environment was often too outdated for gaming/desktop use due to very long freeze periods, and running FrankenDebian was asking for trouble. I decided, I'd rather use a computer than tinker with it, so I moved to Ubuntu and have never regretted it since. Sure, I made one big configuration change by adding flatpak support and preferring flatpaks over snaps, but even the default config is solid.
I have considered several other distros since, e.g. Tumbleweed, Fedora, Manjaro, PopOS, Mint, but they have their own issues, and potential benefits don't outweigh the effort of reinstalling.
Yinkoon@reddit
I used Ubuntu and Linux Mint before switching to Fedora. I think Ubuntu is still very popular.
h0t_gril@reddit
I recommend Ubuntu.
getbusyliving_@reddit
After almost a decade of avoiding it, I recently moved all my machines to 24.10, it is finally good in my case.
jumpJumpg0000@reddit
Ubuntu kind of comes with the turf.
Quirky_Ambassador808@reddit
Back like 10 years ago I watched a bunch of videos of people recommending it. But most people always recommend Mint.
tommycw10@reddit
Been using Linux for 25 years. I’d recommend it to anyone. That said, I don’t recommend computer operating systems to people. No one cares, other than the fan boys that you are probably getting this advice from.
The truth is that Linux is Linux. You can do what you want to do with any distribution and do it. You can decide if you want to update with apt, pacman, yum or whatever else, beyond that )aside from weird niche distros) they are all really the same. Yes some people will yell and scream that some feature is a big deal (good or bad) but mostly it’s all bullshit.
Counterpoint-AI@reddit
interesting, all my Linux people use Ubuntu.
Some of it is the whole "be different is cool" and since Ubuntu is so widely-used, some people don't wanna recommend it and be like everyone else. I say use what works, and it's the best Debian-based distro and well-supported.
dudeness_boy@reddit
Snap
merimus@reddit
If that is truly the case... then you might want to think about who you are getting recommendations from.
3a1va1@reddit
I volunteer as tribute… I’m that newbie, now you know someone. Go ahead, throw things, I’ll move as soon as I feel confident!
Xaxathylox@reddit
U should use ubuntu.
Problem solved.
Next!
Itchy-LLM@reddit
Because their CEO for many years was a former executive at a CIA spying company.
Shhhh_Peaceful@reddit
It is recommended by my company's IT department. In fact, it's the only Linux distribution that is approved for desktop use on company computers
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
So install Arch and change out /etc/os-release.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
Ugly colour schemes by default. Ugly background choices. Gnome instead of Plasma or Cinnamon. Snaps over native deb packages or even over Flatpaks. Other annoyances.
It's a good solid distro, they just make some choices that drive some of us away. They still have plenty of followers, though.
ruedans@reddit
Canonical. :)
Kitayama_8k@reddit
Most people don't like gnome. People dislike that it installs snap packages, especially through apt without telling you.
Linux mint is the same base but fixes both problems. Also has good tools for kernel management and updating.
DarkhoodPrime@reddit
The time of ~~the Elves~~ Ubuntu is over, but the story lives on. That's what happens when certain corporate decisions are made.
GooseGang412@reddit
As others have pointed out, Ubuntu's fall from grace among outspoken linux users basically boils down to corporate ethics and business practices that go against the spirit of the Free and Open Source community that Linux garners.
I think part of the lack of discourse from Ubuntu users is that a lot of its install base are either 1) enterprise and server users who aren't on forums arguing for it, or 2) people who are generally satisfied with what they get out of it and aren't on forums arguing for it.
I also get the impression that userbase for Ubuntu and the other desktop environment spins (Kubuntu, Xubuntu etc) rely on the Ubuntu forums outside of Reddit a lot. They're mostly looking for solutions to problems, rather than comparing and contrasting their distro to others.
The people who take issue with the company are vocal and many. The people who use the OS for work aren't that concerned with discussing it on reddit. The champions of ubuntu are so few and far between that they're kind of a statistical anomaly.
Maybe that's helpful? It is odd that Ubuntu users are so few and far between in general linux spaces. I also noticed the Kubuntu subreddit is pretty inactive compared to, say, Linux Mint and Debian. Hopefully this rings true for those who do use it but aren't active on subreddits like this one.
wtabolt@reddit
Spot on. Ubuntu is popular among people who are ready to abandon Windows, but aren't necessarily ready to dive into the technical side. It's definitely on my list of distro's to recommend when someone wants to install something other than Windows on their parents laptop.
skels130@reddit
This I think is accurate. I use mint for my work laptop, but all of our servers (50+ vms) are Ubuntu/debian/proxmox. Mint has a better (to me) DE, but is close enough to Ubuntu that everything generally translates directly over. I tried Ubuntu first and didn’t like the DE in gnome 3. I’ve played more recently and probably could have made it work with extensions, but mint is easier.
wtabolt@reddit
I'd say primarily because most people who are new to Linux start with Ubuntu. That makes it popular, but it also makes it a clear "starting point". When you ask for recommendations on a distro, most experienced Linux users are going to assume you've used Ubuntu already. If you make it clear that you haven't used Ubuntu, most experienced users are going to tell you to go with a distro that's a starting point, but also something you can grow into. Ubuntu lost that a while back (people are mentioning snaps, amazon searches, unity, etc. and they're all right) because they started trying to make the OS what they think you want instead of embracing what makes Linux popular, which is the ability to make it into whatever you want.
Also worth noting that Ubuntu isn't a very enterprise friendly distro. Granted, most users won't really care about that, but as you get deeper into Linux, you start to want certain capabilities. Distro's like Fedora/RedHat, or Suse have a steeper learning curve, but you can easily make them as UI friendly as Ubuntu, and in addition to that, they are generally easier to integrate into existing infrastructures. i.e. Joining a domain is possible in Ubuntu, but it's much easier in Fedora.
To really answer your question, think about it like cars. Lot's of people drive Hyundai's, but very few people recommend them. You're more likely to hear someone say "I used to drive a Hyundai, but now that I drive a Subaru, I'll never go back". I'm not a car guy, so please don't judge the choice of brands in this analogy.
TL;DR - Ubuntu is for novices. Once you ask for recommendations, you're going to get advice based on the experience of people who have moved past novice level.
Ambitious-Ad7151@reddit
Weird, you just need to do a search of the words “Ubuntu” in this subreddit
mrtruthiness@reddit
Ubuntu is still fine. IMO there are a lot of haters out there who want to appear to be "elite" by not using a distro that has a "just works" history and philosophy.
I started using Linux in 1995. I've been using Ubuntu since 2012. I appreciate being able to painlessly move from LTS to LTS every 4 years or so. Also, I love lxd/lxc and the best lxd experience IMO is on Ubuntu.
baguacodex@reddit
snaps, bloat and telemetry. also don't get why they use apparmor over selinux.
mrtruthiness@reddit
apparmor has less functionality, but it is simpler and is/was much less likely to break your system from a configuration error. Not that it's relevant anymore, but apparmor came before selinux (1998 vs 2000). SELinux was contributed by the NSA (US National Security Agency).
More history: apparmor basically came from SUSE (by way of acquisition). Ubuntu started using apparmor in 2007 and took over maintenance of apparmor from SUSE in 2009.
SenoraRaton@reddit
Because they want their "own" thing. Its a way of creating a semi-walled garden to have vendor lock in. SELinux was created, and is maintained by RedHat, their largest competitor especially in the server space.
taftster@reddit
Interestingly, for historical completeness, SELinux was actually created by NSA and donated as open source.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux
sagacious-tendencies@reddit
Ubuntu is the most popular Linux distro, by far. There is a reason for that. All of the "Snap is so horrible" folks must just like to complain, because Snap package management in Ubuntu is completely optional.
usuario1986@reddit
you're probably too young. there was a time when Ubuntu was the only thing getting recommended and it is hands down the distro that put linux on the map for everyday users. nowadays it has shifted from the things that made it being so recommended, so while it's still quite popular, it doesn't get that much of a hype as before. mint based on it and kept closer to what it was, so the focus is now more on mint.
wolfragg@reddit
I used to. And I mean used to, when Gnome was still 2.0 and KDE 3.5 and then everything kinda made less sense. Nowadays? Linux Mint is pretty stable for beginners and for people that aren't noobs - I tell them to go Fedora.
Mk3d81@reddit
Because Debian exists /s
BacklashLaRue@reddit
Rage bait.
NatoBoram@reddit
Probably April Fools. Can't decide if the answers fell for it or are getting in on the joke.
MichaelTunnell@reddit
I read this thread on the 2nd so didn’t think about it but it does look like it was posted yesterday 🤷♂️
MichaelTunnell@reddit
I recommend it as a part of my suggestions every time. The issue is that Ubuntu has had a lot of hate thrown at it over the years…for the past 15 years really. Most of the criticism of Ubuntu is unfounded nonsense and some of it is fair critiques for things they’ve done but on a couple of occasions people have brown tongs out of proportion to a point where hate is spread very easily on Ubuntu despite all the good they’ve done. In my opinion, we are far better off with Ubuntu than without despite mistakes but the hate they get is just excessive and saddening
olinwalnut@reddit
Funny story: I recently had a severely annoying experience with Ubuntu that made me go “why did I even try this?”
I was a big Ubuntu advocate. I still probably have a pressed CD for the first release somewhere. Ubuntu - despite that tan/brown color scheme - was a welcoming Linux distro in a time where the most welcoming distro not non-Linux people was Lindows/Linspire of all things.
But man, something changed. Others have said it, but it just doesn’t feel as elegant as it did at one point.
I have an old Mac mini that a family member still wants to use for their 3D printer, so I figured I’d try Ubuntu since I have used it in a while. I had an issue the other day that somehow in apt, it decided that I no longer need my desktop. I didn’t install anything that asked it to be removed. It just…did it. I let it go, knowing what it would do, and boom. I couldn’t even log into a shell! I had flashbacks to me yelling on my couch at LTT about his Ubuntu experience and me - a Linux admin and user for who knows how many years now - found myself in the same situation.
I was highly annoyed.
raulgrangeiro@reddit
Man, despite what people are saying, snaps are not bad. I use them everyday along with Flatpaks and they work great. The truth is: people want a pholosphie to use, not a software as a tool. If you want to use your computer and want it to work without you need to tweak it time to time to solve issues, Ubuntu is for you. It just works.
Slight_Manufacturer6@reddit
Very strange. I don’t use Ubuntu much but I suggest it all the time to new Linux users.
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
Any specific reason to recommend ubuntu to new linux users??
Slight_Manufacturer6@reddit
taftster@reddit
I think it’s because of the desktop UI. For users coming from Windows (or even Mac), the Ubuntu default desktop can be confusing and opinionated. Whereas Mint gets a lot of recommendations because it feels familiar out of the box.
Ubuntu is an essential and significant component of the Linux ecosystem today. Its importance cannot be overstated.
alpharaptor1@reddit
Unpopular decisions to make a singularly unique user experience that they believe is best but was never wanted or needed. It almost looks like they wanted to curate an environment that could be seen as an alternative to MacOS.
IEVTAM@reddit
Simply because Linux Mint exists, it's easy and it's good.
fordry@reddit
Yup, there's reasons Windows 7 was so popular and Linux Mint ticks a number of those reasons.
torind2000@reddit
Trolling?
MoobyTheGoldenSock@reddit
Ubuntu likes to make weird decisions and force them on end users. I used to daily drive Xubuntu, but it slowly got more and more irritating until I finally switched to Debian.
For example, whatever their implementation of pipewire is, I could not get it to recognize audio over HDMI when I plugged it in. I had to plug in the HDMI cable and restart my laptop to see the audio option. On Debian, I just plug it in and I’m good to go.
The biggest one was I couldn’t get video calls on Citrix Workspace. I went through all the steps in the troubleshooter times, and everything seemed to be working right but the video wouldn’t connect. It was only after Citrix broke after an update and I tried Debian was that I realized the problem was that the video would not run through snap or flatpak, only native Firefox. On Debian, I have the option to use any, while on Ubuntu snap is forced, commands for apt just install the snap, and the fix is a multi-step workaround that is going to be a lot for a new user.
And that’s the huge problem with Ubuntu for new users. Canonical makes a new decision and just rolls it out, and if that breaks your workflow then you have to waste time working around it. That’s the kind of annoying thing Windows does. And it’s not something we should be asking of new users.
I’ve actually never tried Mint, but I’ve switched to recommending it to new users over Ubuntu because it doesn’t do that nonsense.
ktaragorn@reddit
One point everyone might not suggest, is you might start with Ubuntu, because it is that big, so recommendations would include non ubuntu distros.
Brilliant_Date8967@reddit
I would certainly recommend Ubuntu. It's great. It almost never has major issues and I run it on almost all my Linux machines.
Ubuntu is good enough 95% of the time. I distro hopped for a while. At the end of the day, it's a well -thought out set of compromises.
And I'd recommend it to anyone coming from Windows or MacOS.
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
Yes it's going to be maybe, 3rd or 4th time using linux, because initial timea i just tried to install without having any knowledge and it just didn't fit my use case so i went back to using windows, so i am thinking to seriously learn linux,
As you said you would recommend ubuntu if anyone is coming from windows, why? Any specific reason because i see a lot of people here recommending Linux Mint
Brilliant_Date8967@reddit
I've never used Mint so I don't know about it. Ubuntu is easy to install, but the interface does take a bit of getting used to. On the other hand you can do everything through the gui. Which is why I'd recommend to Windows users.
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
okay, appreciate it
dbfuentes@reddit
you've been around for a short time? about 20 years ago (around the time of the change from gnome 2 to 3) ubuntu was highly recommended as a starter distro (they even sent you CDs if you asked for them).
then they started to make questionable decisions such as MIR, amazon, snap, etc. and other alternatives appeared.
NOTE: gnome 3 transition was horrible
Cynyr36@reddit
To add to this, basically they have never really been part of the community, and have had a strong NIH vibe. They just have to go off and do their own unsupported things.
npaladin2000@reddit
It's not popular anymore.
It's not user friendly anymore
Canonical has moved their focus from the desktop to the server because that's where the money is, and they're in this to make money. Even that would be fine except that server admins don't like it when their OS doesn't do what it's told without a bunch of tinkering to make it actually install the deb package instead of the snaps that Canonical is pushing through overrides.
Linux4ever_Leo@reddit
One word: Snaps!
Mo_Jack@reddit
I used to recommend Ubuntu for seniors when they had the Unity desktop. I got sick of clearing viruses off of my parent's friends pc's, so I made them all dual boot and showed them linux and downloaded a bunch of card games for them. They all loved it and I didn't get any more virus calls.
lemmatos@reddit
I use Kubuntu and can definitely recommend it. I never got used to gnome, and I find KDE great.
It is usually easy to find resources to solve problems, as it is pretty much Ubuntu, with KDE on top.
Distro hopping was also never a thing for me. Kubuntu works, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.
I have thought of using fedora a few times, but then again, why, if everything already works for me?
deafpolygon@reddit
Because it’s Linux with a corporate vibe, which is anathema to the spirit of open source.
S7relok@reddit
Dont look at the contributors of the kernel, you will do an heart attack
S7relok@reddit
Because some stupid nerds think that software wars are something.
In fact, ubuntu is a good general usage distro. More than enough for Mr. and Ms. Everyone, and still comfortable for the seasoned users who want a not complicated OS.
borndovahkiin@reddit
I don't like Ubuntu because of how they treat the community and I think there are better distros out there.
bassbeater@reddit
Ubuntu introduced snaps, and people got pissed. Then derivative distributions built off 22.04 came out, but they had jank. For instance, I run Zorin on my desktop lately. For some reason, on my plasma session (which I use as default) my k400 Logitech keyboard would stutter inputs. As much as "install something else" could help, I didn't have time, so I downloaded Ubuntu Mainline and upgraded the kernel to 6.14. Problem disappeared. But that's the thing, a lot of new problems come from Ubuntu lately in being "the simplest distro other than Windows".
76zzz29@reddit
Ubuntu was the best for new linux user 20 years ago... We are no longer 20 years ago
scottwsx96@reddit
I’ve noticed it too, but it didn’t stop me from replacing Windows with it. Installation and ease of use is just dead simple. Everything on my laptop just worked out of the box post installation, except my fingerprint reader.
I am not interested in the holy war over snaps, or past sins with Amazon. I just want something that’s 1) well-supported, 2) easy to use, and 3) just works. Ubuntu checks all those boxes for me.
Mysterious-Sale-4810@reddit
Ugly gui
bathdweller@reddit
I'll recommend it. It's more efficient to install ubuntu and remove components you don't want than it is to use a bare bones distro with nothing set up and install everything from scratch. Also Ubuntu is dependable. You won't have to chroot first thing Monday morning with deadlines looming.
kipesukarhu@reddit
The only people that don't recommend it are hobbyists. I can assure you that any professional using Linux for their work would be using Ubuntu or at a push RHEL/Rocky.
smad1705@reddit
Seconded. I think Ubuntu is the default choice for people who don't really go deep into distro choice debates. If you care deeply about foss, perhaps there are arguments against it. If you just want a distro that will work and with a shitload of tutorials/support, Ubuntu makes the most sense. It does not get recommended, it just gets used.
barnamos@reddit
I'm trying to consolidate my distros. Production server is lts Ubuntu and has been good to me for decades. I run rocky locally for davinci resolve and feel like there's only 12 people active anywhere with it. I'm almost 60 and hate having to remember different commands depending on the box lol. Do folks really use Rocky for mission critical servers?
hitchen1@reddit
dist upgrade has broken every time I've used it. The advice I always saw was to reinstall instead of upgrade.
I think the average Linux user probably needs software newer than LTS distros can provide, and ppas cause things to break down the road. Flatpak probably mitigates the issue these days but I still would rather just recommend something else.
robberviet@reddit
I feel old now, Ubuntu was the default choice when I first got into Linux. OP must be young.
ryan_the_leach@reddit
It still is.
I suspect most "what distro would you recommend" threads take the assumption that the user is using Ubuntu and not OSX/Windows
ryan_the_leach@reddit
It's because most people who are asking for a distro recommendation, the assumption is that they are moving away from Ubuntu, typically.
fleamour@reddit
Used to be the enthusiasts choice, no longer it would seem. I have some historical Ubuntu wallpapers for nostalgia.
rab2bar@reddit
i did for ten years, but things changed and i switched to a rolling distro and now recommend that
araujoms@reddit
They jumped the shark. Used to be a nice, user-friendly distro, then decided that their users are idiots who shouldn't be allowed control over their computer. That doesn't go well with Linux users.
BigDadNads420@reddit
The vast majority of people should not be allowed the level of control over their PC that linux gives them. If you ever want linux to truly be a mainstream option then things like ubuntu need to exist in some capacity.
araujoms@reddit
The vast majority of people use Android, which allows them to control their updates. Ubuntu does not (if you use snaps).
BigDadNads420@reddit
Forced updates are the default or straight up mandatory on tons of android devices and apps.
araujoms@reddit
They are the default, but you can change that. With Ubuntu snaps you cannot.
cgoldberg@reddit
Of course you can: https://snapcraft.io/docs/managing-updates#p-32248-pause-or-stop-automatic-updates
araujoms@reddit
That's a new feature, didn't exist back in Ubuntu 22.04. Also it's rather inconvenient to use. I can configure apt (via the GUI even) to install automatically security updates, and don't bother me with the rest. Doesn't seem to be possible with snap.
Avbpp2@reddit
What?Snap don't update themselves unless you allow to do it.
BigDadNads420@reddit
And the ability for a noob to completely fuck an android install is almost zero, so comparing hand holding in android to hand holding in linux seems pretty irrelevant.
araujoms@reddit
Android is Linux FYI.
NanobugGG@reddit
The reason is snap.
People don't like it.
Personally, I don't care. I don't use it, and it can be uninstalled.
But I tend to recommend a line of distribution rather than a specific one. And I'll probably always say RHEL og Debian based.
amagicmonkey@reddit
depends on where. in real life, most people recommend ubuntu – much fewer recommend fedora, for example. on reddit, niche distributions like arch-derivatives or nix or whatever are vastly overrepresented.
WokeBriton@reddit
For some people, the early versions forced lack of shortcuts on the desktop put them off; they've been using desktop icons since the early 90s, so it was an unwelcome restriction.
For others, the push of snap was too much. When a person uses apt to install software, but gets a snap instead, they feel like their control over their hardware has been taken away. Many of these people consider this almost as bad as the way windows does things.
For yet others, the way canonical treats it's people is a large factor. A cursory search on reddit will find threads with keen linuxers sharing their tales of woe about interviewing and/or working for canonical. If you want links from me to prove this assertion let me know, and I will provide some, but you would be faster to do the search yourself.
d32dasd@reddit
as a Debian maintainer, I hate their technical decisions for Upstart, Unity, Mir, Snaps, anything that comes from them. They have a huuge case of Not Invented Here, they try to gain mindshare not by collaborating, but by creating projects that are completely under their control yet open source. I hate how each and every one of their technical projects have a closed source component that they could leverage to strangle the community if their project were to be actually successful.
I dislike Mark Shuttleworth as a person. I dislike Canonical's hiring practices (just search for them.. you will be flabbergasted).
I dislike that nowadays they masquerade their packages as being .deb, but they actually ship snaps for some of them, in a way that is difficult to disable.
They were great around 2003-2008, but that's it.
zoharel@reddit
I'll be honest, there's always been a bit of reluctance to fully embrace Ubuntu in certain quarters, because it's a sort of "Fisher Price" Linux distribution, built for people who perhaps shouldn't be in front of a keyboard in the first place. That said, sometimes people want exactly that, and so even if you didn't like it, you find yourself recommending it quite often around the time it was first released.
Not so much these days, because it's no longer the only game in town for that kind of distribution, and Canonical constantly makes pretty bad decisions.
Street-Comb-4087@reddit
Because they do some dodgy stuff behind the scenes sometimes. Remember when they tried to force Amazon crap on everyone? Or how they force snaps on users?
Ubuntu is an okay base for other better distros such as Mint, Kubuntu, Zorin, etc. but I don't like pure Ubuntu. Kubuntu though, I've found, has great stability and suits my needs well. And I can actually delete snaps from it, which is nice.
MulberryDeep@reddit
Ubuntu is the windows of linux, it has a bad company behind it (is known to treat employes not great) and they forcefully showe their stuff down your throat (snaps) wich is a nogo in linux for me
monicascully@reddit
What you mentioned plus working with Amazon makes it an automatic nonstarter for me.
Have you heard anything about Mint and the way the company treats its employees? That is very important to me.
MulberryDeep@reddit
Mint isnt a company and has no employees
monicascully@reddit
Sorry, perhaps I should have said the team.
radiant_acquiescence@reddit
Not surprised about treating their employees poorly. Their job ads ask for your high school marks 🤣🚩
AcceptableHamster149@reddit
They burned a few bridges over the years. Remember when they tried to monetize the desktop by putting Amazon ads in search? That kind of thing. Wasn't the first or last time they made some decisions about the direction they were going that didn't sit well with the community.
My current reason for disliking them is their insistence on forcing snaps down peoples' throats. Flatpak was already well established before they decided to create snaps, and it just causes more fragmentation, not to mention that they're doing their damnedest to turn Ubuntu into an atomic distribution where everything's a snap without actually telling people or giving them a way to keep it the way it was. There's other distros that do everything Ubuntu set out to do at the beginning, not only better but without all the annoying BS.
andre_ange_marcel@reddit
Snaps predate Flatpaks, the same way Mir preceded Wayland. I'm OK with people having their opinions, but many times I read incorrect statements about Ubuntu. Amazon ads happened over 12 years ago, and people still talk about it like it's yesterday.
Mint shipped malware ridden ISOs from their official website, and RedHat recently restricted access to their source code, but I never see those things mentioned nearly as much here on Reddit.
PlayerOnSticks@reddit
Mint shipped what?
Superb_Plane2497@reddit
It was a search called "Shopping" and it wasn't hidden from anyone. The money was like an affiliate link. Very similar logic applies to Firefox and the money Mozilla gets from Google.
And it was like a million years ago.
Known-Watercress7296@reddit
Flatpak doesn't even come close to doing what Snap does, it's the core of Ubuntu Core.
The overlap with flatpak is more of a bonus extra to enrage redditors that don;'t understand the tech so compare them to flatpaks, which is entertaining but doesn't really mean much to Canonical as a project methinks.
There's not a lot of workstation focused distros with a decade of mainline support, and runs on everything else, most are hobby/community projects with a year or two of support.
Wooloomooloo2@reddit
Snaps and Flatpak hit about the same time in 2016, I’m not going to argue the point over a few months and no xdg-app doesn’t count. So Canonical would have been developing Snap way before Flatpak existed and even when released there were many issues. When people get hissy about Snap, it reminds me of when people got bent out of shape over Metal and said Apple should have adopted (the non-existent) Vulkan.
It’s not like you can’t simply install Flathub instead. The hate for Ubuntu is a little weird and goven it’s still the largest distro by users/install base maybe tells folks something about how out of touch the “Linux community” really is. Those Ubuntu users are part of the same community.
dudleydidwrong@reddit
In many peoples' minds, Ubuntu tried to become the Microsoft of Linux. I mean the evil empire Microsoft of the 1990s who wanted to become the gatekeeper of computing. Ubuntu was seen as trying to use Snaps to be the gatekeeper of Linux software.
Giving up Snaps would be one big step Ubuntu could take if it wants to earn back respect.
Weekly_Victory1166@reddit
I use ubuntu and I develop stuff - gcc, web, python, android, whatever. These didn't come pre-installed, had to download them, but not a big problem (big darn deal).
midgaze@reddit
I've used Slackware, Gentoo, RedHat, and then a decade or so of FreeBSD as my main desktop OS. I currently use Ubuntu because it seems pretty cutting edge and I'm no longer interested in figuring out how to do everything manually all the time. It stays out of the way for the most part.
LemonWild1972@reddit
At first used I Debian with Gnome 2 Desktop, then Ubuntu for a couple of years before paid offerings and the Unity desktop. I have been using Mint for years and I am delighted with it.
UntestedMethod@reddit
Meh. Ubuntu was kinda the OG of making Linux super easy and accessible to the masses. Nowadays there are plenty of other options in that same "accessible to the masses" category. Where Ubuntu tends to lose out is that it's notoriously bloated compared to other options.
ousee7Ai@reddit
That is simply just you living in a non-ubuntu small bubble. Ubuntu is almost esclusively used in many science departments and companies for example. My guess it that they have >50% of the linux marketshare in both servers and desktop use.
OkAirport6932@reddit
Because lots of people dislike Gnome. And Gnome is the default desktop in Ubuntu. Also there are a substantial number of people who dislike Snaps, which Ubuntu leverages heavily.
The people who like Gnome and Snap are less vocal than those who dislike them. Those who like Gnome, but not Snap will recommend Debian or Fedora. Those who like Snap but not Gnome will recommend a remix version of Ubuntu like Kubuntu or Lubuntu.
underdoeg@reddit
i still recommend ubuntu to new users.
SV-97@reddit
When I used Ubuntu I constantly ran into issues that I had to troubleshoot and it felt very unstable. Aside from that: I don't like snaps / canonical and don't see why I'd ever recommend Ubuntu over other distros that have worked well for me personally / have something special to offer.
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
so i am seeing snap is hated by almost all of the users. please explain any history or why is it hated? (i am a beginner)
Skept1kos@reddit
Snap is very zealous about security, to an extent that it frequently breaks things. It also loads much more slowly than standard apps.
That by itself might not be a big deal, but Ubuntu installs some of the default programs (notably Firefox) as Snap apps, and it has a completely maddening setup where apt packages actually install Snap apps, making it a huge confusing pain to switch to the regular apt packages if you prefer them.
TheOneTrueTrench@reddit
Lets say that you want to install Firefox on Ubuntu, but you've heard that snaps are slow, so you decide to remove the snap version with
sudo snap remove firefox
, and then install the regular one withsudo apt install firefox
. Cool, it just installed the native one like you explicitly told it to, right?Because it just reinstalled the snap version AGAIN.
What if you add the Mozilla PPA, something that you would only do if you wanted to use the .deb version of Firefox, then install it?
Turns out you have to use apt pinning to even get it to install at all. But... guess what happens when there's an upgrade?
You have to turn off unattended upgrades to get it to stop overriding your decisions and actually do what you tell it to. For now. Who knows what nonsense they'll pull to force you to use snaps?
No other Linux Distro goes out of its way this much to force you to do what they want, and I have no interest in a corporation forcing me to use my computer they way they think I should.
Skept1kos@reddit
It is a serious pain. This works for me though:
I think this is probably the most annoying issue in Ubuntu, that they create so much hassle with the default browser.
Darkleaf_Music@reddit
In my experience, it creates permission hell where your installed programs have no access to system resources, and you can not change the configuration because the configuration exists within an immutable container.
The last time I used snap to install the Nextcloud client, it was blocked from writing files to my home directory, rendering it completely useless. I switched to OpenSUSE and had no more issues.
SV-97@reddit
There's a bunch of history around this, I'd recommend reading the Wikipedia page on snaps. You can also find a bunch of discussions on just about every linux subreddit. In short:
deltatux@reddit
Compared to Flatpak, it centralizes the repository to the one that Canonical hosts and Canonical shoves it down your throat. You like DEB packages? Too bad, it's now a snap even if you use APT to manage the packages.
Snap has its advantages but also their disadvantages. Canonical takes the option away from their users.
If they want everything to be a Snap, then remove DEB. They shouldn't half heart this, leave both but then force Snap even through APT.
eklavya_2000@reddit
In india many engineering colleges use Ubuntu to be specific ubuntu 14 or 16 now because the PCs are old like 2GB ram and coding is taught in text editor. So yeah there's that
LazyH4kr@reddit
For Windows Subsystem for Linux UBUNTU is the most popular distro. I thought AWS had a similar distro distribution. These are a lot of Linuces.
couch_crowd_rabbit@reddit
Ubuntu used to be recommended in the mid to late 2000s. And you could get free DVDs installers mailed to you. It's still kind of riding on that legacy.
Significant-Tie-625@reddit
Anyone remember when they tried this: https://www.pcworld.com/article/436097/ubuntus-unity-8-desktop-removes-the-amazon-search-spyware.html
My opinion is that they alienated their user-base, or at least enough of it, that people simply stopped recommending it as often as they used to.
poha-jirawan-01@reddit
i dont really line gnome and find kde much better and stable (for my hardware) so i recommend kubuntu instead
FaithlessnessOwn7960@reddit
I would recommend people to install Ubuntu to a server machine. That's what they do best and they earn from, and why they care less on desktop user.
snake_loverImnotgay@reddit
you must be new because the thing that cononical did is just horrible with what they're doing with ubuntu
Nnyan@reddit
Funny every single time I run into a distro recommendation discussion Ubuntu is always on there. I mean always.
felipec@reddit
Because it's not really Linux.
AdministrativeFile78@reddit
I use Ubuntu to run my server its just a Linux distro lol
spukhaftewirkungen@reddit
Sounds like you should try this cool Linux distro I saw the other day - it's called Ubuntu, a reference to that famous good dog that would sit on command at the end of certain tv shows.
JelloSquirrel@reddit
Lol the most recommended distro, Linux Mint, is Ubuntu derived and honestly is basically just a new background and set of pre installed apps.
There are only a few true Linux distros: Rhel and it's clones for business Fedora and it's clones Fedora Atomic and it's clones (ie Bazzite for gaming) so you can run everything in containers for additional bloat but maybe additional reliability and security Debian and its close cousin Ubuntu and their clones with Ubuntu mostly being paid Debian for enterprise Arch which is basically just SteamOS Gentoo for some reason
jalmito@reddit
Posting anything negative about Ubuntu is a sure way to attract attention to your post. Bravo OP.
phendrenad2@reddit
Google "top Linux distros" and you'll find 1,000,000 blogspam articles with Ubuntu listed in the top 5.
killersteak@reddit
I'll recommend it, if you want. Get a used business grade laptop and enjoy being productive (until you find the inevitably lacking gnome software app and have to go digging through the pretty bad snap store to find a better app).
Zeuslostchild@reddit
Ubuntu is the corporate version of Debian from Canonical. If you still need and like apt as package manager and have good compatibility with Debian for your software installation you should always choose Debian. Personal opinion (:
ahferroin7@reddit
I personally do not recommend Ubuntu mostly because of Canonical.
Canonical has a near terminal case of Not Invented Here syndrome, and as a result it’s rather typical for them to go off and create their own custom solution to a problem that other people have already solved or generally agree should be solved in a different way. Snaps are the most prominent example of this right now, but there have been many others (Mir is probably the next best example that did not turn out well). This also seeps into their decision making in other ways though, most notably their tendency to stick by things they themselves created even when the rest of the Linux community standardizes around other options (see for example the fact that Ubuntu is essentially the only big distro pushing LXD over Docker/Podman, or how Canonical stuck with GNU Bazzar for sorce control for far longer than most sane people would consider reasonable).
lhxtx@reddit
Wow. I find that hard to believe. But I guess it’s possible. Ubuntu filled (fills?) a niche of an easy hardware configuration distro. Snaps suck IMNSHO but it’s still an easier Debian. Althouh Debian is just not that hard.
lelddit97@reddit
I can't honestly recommend ubuntu since snaps + apparmor are prone to random permissions issues (first-hand), and you should not disable apparmor or selinux. Linux Mint just doesn't have those permissions issues so it's easy to recommend. Fedora is more stable and has SELinux, which I like better than apparmor so I recommend it. I use Ubuntu on my corpo work laptop and it works fine once I switched a couple of problematic snaps to their flatpak or .deb equivalents. Most snaps work fine.
ARandomWalkInSpace@reddit
I only use it on one of my computers because debian did not have the wifi drivers. My hatred for snap knows no bounds. It cannot be overstated how horrendous that makes the experience.
Plus debian exists.
TheSpr1te@reddit
I use snaps for things like gimp and blender. Haven't noticed any difference from unconfined deb versions, except that newer versions are available much faster as snaps.
ReiyaShisuka@reddit
EWbuntu...that's why.
Just kidding. I just wanted to say EWbuntu. :)
I would guess 2 reasons:
People don't like snaps. Hate them with a passion.
Many distros are built on top of Ubuntu. Why go with vanilla Ubuntu, when you can have Ubuntu come with a few more bells and whistles? :)
purplemagecat@reddit
For me it's, Every time I try it, or try to give it to someone I hit technical Issues (Bugs), and I've heard they hold back security updates so they can charge for them to their premium users. So basically there are better distros that are most stable with better security.
LostMinorityOfOne@reddit
I don't know, I use Ubuntu and I love it. I've used other distros in the past but Ubuntu meets my needs the best. I've been using Linux for _decades_, so I don't know what the deal is with "too mainstream" or "not hardcore enough" is.
TheSpr1te@reddit
I've been using Linux as my main OS since the 90s, and most of my computers today run Ubuntu. I want a stable system with good security updates and applications that work.
SimpleYellowShirt@reddit
I use kubuntu desktop and ubuntu server every day. It's still the most supported distro out there. It's stable and snaps really aren't that bad. Open source people just don't like being told what to do. There is this whole business side to Linux that desktop Linux users seem to forget about. Canonical offers Ubuntu free of charge, but they don't always make decisions with non commercial users in mind. They put enterprise customers first.
siodhe@reddit
Ubuntu users figure others will probably just install Ubuntu anyway. It's just the fringier ones that go out of the way to recommend. ;-)
Most places I've worked in the last decade+ used Ubuntu on the desktop and in the cloud / production servers / kubernetes images.
ADMINISTATOR_CYRUS@reddit
Always has ass outdated packages and then by adding extra repos you end up fucking up the package manager
VelvetElvis@reddit
It's not a hobbyist distro. It's a get shit done to earn on a living and then go do something else distro. That's not the demographic for this sub.
paradigmx@reddit
Ubuntu demands that you conform to a generally enterprise ecosystem that limits support for more universal concepts. It's not bad per say, but it's the same reason nobody recommends you start with Red Hat Linux. Distros like Linux Mint and PopOS are designed to ease the transition while exposing you to more traditional tools and package management.
bytheclouds@reddit
Because in online communities (and in offline ones as well) people tend to adopt and parrot opinions that are not their own to seem more cool.
DrollAntic@reddit
I hear people say Ubuntu all the time. If you didn't know, Ubuntu is based on Debian, it is not a stand alone distro.
For my 2-cents, Debian is the better choice. I don't trust Canonical, and therefore I cannot trust Ubuntu.
PaulEngineer-89@reddit
Ubuntu was pretty good until Canonical decided to act like an echo chamber First they not only developed the worst piece of crap package managers ever in the history of package managers but then tried to disable using .deb installers and later to block you from changing any software for a newer/better version if Canonical didn’t bless it.
Then they veered off into switching from Gnone to this weird crap nobody liked or wanted for a DE. Then veered back and defaulted to Wayland when it was beta, then veered back to X when Wayland was stable. Then the coup de tat…they started blocking all kinds of stuff and forcing you to use snaps. Without doing a whole slew of modifications you couldn’t even say uninstall a snap Firefox and use an updated one from a PPA. At that point unless you used snaps the whole system started breaking. I’m an experienced Linux user. I was running it in the 1990s, and Minix before that. So I know what I’m doing and when it got to the point where I couldn’t fix jumpy sumptuous anymore despite YEARS of fixing tons of problems with every upgrade, I deleted it and jumped to an entirely non-Debian distro. Good riddance. Sorry but no way I can recommend that steaming pile of dog excrement to anyone.
Gent_Kyoki@reddit
Time travel to 2010 maybe i heard it all the time before snap happened
brokenlampPMW2@reddit
I found Ubuntu very unstable compared to Mint, and Gnome is a bit more to get used to compared to Cinnamon or xfce.
Xubuntu is good though.
galets@reddit
Ubuntu is somewhat a default these days. Unless you know exactly what you want to install and why, Ubuntu is the default choice for many of us, so much so, that we started assuming everybody knows this. And then when asked what to install, assumption is that the question is "what to install other than Ubuntu?"
Mangoloton@reddit
Ubuntu is only useful to start using Linux if you are a junior technician, you have a lot of documentation to solve medium-level errors, to watch YouTube it is better to use mint, to set up my first web server or something of that level it is perfect and the other thing that it does well is the integration with a Windows environment at the structure level, it is the closest to the corporate world, once you move away from the company-focused distros like red hat
Verwarming1667@reddit
Ubuntu has an uncanny ability to brick itself time and time again. I honesty don't know how they manage it. You could literally install and old ubuntu LTS now and press update and it literally becomes unbootable. I think this is one fhe reasons it has become unpopular.
MortgageTime6272@reddit
Personally I think Ubuntu has a better ux compared to mint. But to each their own.
cgoldberg@reddit
It's one of the most recommended distros.
high-tech-low-life@reddit
I recommend Ubuntu regularly. Unless a newbie can identify a need which indicates a specific distro, Ubuntu is a great default. Most things work. It has solid docs. It is free. A large user base means questions get answered.
For someone who is learning, it is a fine choice.
Of course there are some who will dispute this, but on the Internet, that is inevitable. You'll get that no matter what you pick.
PS: I use Ubuntu at work (LTS only) and at home (latest).
ThecaTTony@reddit
I prefer Ubuntu over Debian for servers (at work), and it's way better in my opinion than EL* distros. Kubuntu is my number one choice for people who never used Linux. My son's notebook runs Kubuntu for study and he's happy with it, no problems at all and it's easy to update or upgrade. I use Arch (btw).
Encursed1@reddit
I cant trust or recommend ubuntu since they decided to push snaps on everyone. Even if you like snaps, just use mint. Its hard to trust ubuntu to not make anymore bad decisions.
BoOmAn_13@reddit
Ubuntu's parent company has made questionable decisions continuously over the past few years. I've actually seen multiple people put Ubuntu on their list of distros when people ask for recommendations next to fedora and mint. Personally I don't use or recommend it because of the snap system and their "app store". They had (not sure if they still have) really poor moderation and had crypto wallet apps that were just malicious apps to steal credentials you gave it. I also don't like gnome which is their main environment, but that's personal preference.
Corvo4tt4nno@reddit
Because it’s dogshit
S3r3nd1p@reddit
Almost got me here, till I remembered what day it is, lol
redoubt515@reddit
I recommend Ubuntu quite frequently. I think it remains one of the best distros for new-ish users, and a reasonable choice for users of any experience level.
Linux social media (reddit, youtube) gives a pretty skewed view of the linux community. Skewed towards hobbyists, not those working with Linux, towards younger and newer users, and towards the more ideological or dogmatic crowd. Its true of Linux and true of tech in general that 'the average user' won't be found talking about their tech choices on social media.
> Is it that Ubuntu is too mainstream for hardcore Linux users
That is a big part of it in my experience. Linux social media spaces often have both an anti-mainstream bias and an anti-corporate bias. By Linux standards Ubuntu is both 'mainstream' and corporate.
Lots of people will also point to snaps, but realistically most users can't really articulate why they dislike snaps, or even accurately describe what snaps are. I don't believe that strong preferences about a packaging format is the real reason, but it is often the justification.
Elbrus-matt@reddit
ubuntu is probably the hassle free solution for corporate and engineering apps supported by linux without using containers. Matlab,elmerfem,paravaiew and others have guides and packages to build from source for ubuntu,their ppa,the other exception is RHEL and SEL,but for specific compilation Ubuntu is the main choice and not compatible with debian for these things. I always compile them into an ubuntu distrobox with nvidia gpu support.
silenceimpaired@reddit
Snaps was all it took for me to leave
ThePupnasty@reddit
I saw where people were bot hing because they had an Amazon app integrated into Ubuntu? I can't remember if they still do? I'm running it in a VM and don't see it. I think that's why people stopped recommending it but I will stand by recommending it as I always use it, and have, since way back in 07.
InfoAphotic@reddit
This guy must be a teen?
soulilya@reddit
Also, Ubuntu uses telemetry
unluckyexperiment@reddit
Although I'm not currently using ubuntu on my main machine, I recommend it to newcomers. It is well document with plenty of help everywhere. When I was installing linux on my mother in law's old computer, it was my choice. She's loving and using it without any major problems since over 10 years.
I get the snap situation, it is legitimate. But everything just works and it is well polished. Very good for a non tech person.
Appropriate_Work_256@reddit
Some keywords: Amazon, gnome, unity, snap, Firefox,mir
moralesnery@reddit
Ubuntu was the de-facto evangelization tool used by Linux enthusiasts in late 00's and early 10's.
But at some point Canonical started trying to shoehorn stuff to users, and the community didn't like that:
The Unity desktop.
Amazon ads in search bar results.
Snap packages (to the point of inteferring with apt and other stuff)
Since then the community has "embraced" other distros, but Ubuntu remains as one of the easier to use and most user-friendly, specially for newer users.
Hollie-Ivy@reddit
Been using Ubuntu for 20 years, great distro.
Dede_Stuff@reddit
Canonical isn’t well liked by some of the more outspoken members of the community, and lots of people who would otherwise want to use Ubuntu have largely been pushed in the direction of distros like Mint which offer similar or better user experiences. It still carries a lot of clout from its glory days, though, so it arguably doesn’t need word of mouth anymore.
Bertybassett99@reddit
I would recommend ubuntu. Been using it since 11.04
achinwin@reddit
Ubuntu is fine. It uses Debian’s apt, which is by far the best package manager imo. It’s also stable.
doc_willis@reddit
I have recommended it dozens if not hundreds of times over the years.
I see it come up constantly as a recommendation.
rcentros@reddit
For me it's the desktop UI and Snaps — I don't like either. The other reason is that Linux Mint (for example) is has a more familiar desktop UI for those coming over from Windows. I have suggested the possibility of using Ubuntu for those coming over from the Mac.
hero_brine1@reddit
People don’t recommend Ubuntu? I have a friend who uses it on a Pi and I see it recommended to new comers regularly along side Mint
gds506@reddit
I remember there was a time, many years ago, when it was common to recommend Ubuntu to the newcomers.
usbeehu@reddit
One of my coworker daily drives Ubuntu and he occasionally encounters issues that mostly caused by quirky decisions by Canonical (mostly snap related), and doesn't exist elsewhere. Solving these requires some tinkering and some knowledge a newbie doesn't necessarily has. This is the reason why I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu, but would happily recommend any Ubuntu based distro, like Mint or Pop.
KnowZeroX@reddit
There are people that recommend it, but the biggest reason is that Ubuntu hasn't cared much about users and is more focused on corporate and servers where most of the money is. So a lot more new user friendly distros are out there, some based on Ubuntu like Mint.
Mint is effectively ubuntu, with all the crap taken out and more new user friendliness added. And with a community centered around new users, its also easier for people to get responses without the elitism that can happen in less new user oriented communities.
Personally, I prefer KDE and use opensuse as a distro, but recommend new people and for family members I recommend Mint because all around it offers the best for new users.
Ok-386@reddit
I do see it all the time and recommend it myself.
that_one_wierd_guy@reddit
the bunt likes to do nonstandard things like snaps, and has a history of implementing questionable decisions
rassawyer@reddit
I stopped recommending Ubuntu when they started putting Amazon search results in my app drawer. One day I went to open Brasero Disk Burner. I open the app launcher, typed in "bra" clicked on Brasero, and did what I needed. Half an hour later, I went to open a different app, so open the launcher, and all I see are brassieres. At work. Right next to my boss. It didn't take me long to figure out what was going on, and to turn it off. But that should never have been turned on without explicit consent. That night I switched distro, and have never been back.
I am not in a place where I have to use Windows for work. I also hate that the Windows start now loads web search results. If I want to search the web for something, I will use a browser, and go to duckduckgo.com, or startpage. If I am opening an application launcher, it is because I want to launch an application.
gatton@reddit
I use Ubuntu everyday. I recommend you use Ubuntu chiya_coffee.
kalzEOS@reddit
You new here, bro?
cwo__@reddit
Ubuntu was extremely popular, the clear # recommendation from basically the day it was first released in 2004 for a bit over a decade. (The unity years were a little more controversial, but despite what people will sometimes tell you now, it was still massively popular and the desktop was mostly well received).
In the last 6-8 years Canonical managed to squander all the community good will they had (and they had lots and lots of it). Sometimes the backlash is a bit unfair, but it's also not unjustified.
On the positive side, Canonical is in a better financial state now; putting less emphasis on desktop and more on other avenues did seem to pay of in terms of financial sustainability.
But at this point I see little reason to use their offering on the desktop unless (a) you're using it on server etc. and would like to have your desktop match that for simplicitly (and in that case I'd recommend Kubuntu, but that's obviously personal preference) or (b) you really need a system that you can mostly leave alone for 5+ years.
MrHighStreetRoad@reddit
It might be because it doesn't do one thing really well because it does so many things. It's a distro which is a server distribution, an LTS distribution and six month distribution. It's also a locked down IOT distribution and the distribution of more flavours by far than any other distribution.
Some of this has caused rough edges. Snap most obviously.
However snap is pretty ok now on the desktop. I actually like having the same distribution for servers and desktop, LTS is very reassuring to me as a professional user although I use the six month releases on my laptop. In the end Ubuntu and gnome are the two fundamental things I keep returning to.
EstaticNollan@reddit
It gained a bad opinion mostly during the 2010's, because they pushed too hard to become a norm against Redhat, they failed on the normalisation part, desktop unity failed, snaps package manager failed. They failed to impose their norm, because it was not needed. There is no advantage to choose Ubuntu as a distro, but I won't choose otherwise for my personal servers.
It's very good for servers, but add nothing relevant on distro.
No_Signal417@reddit
It being good for servers isn't anything to do with Ubuntu, it's just popular for servers so everything is usually tested and has instructions for Ubuntu.
There's also reasons it's bad for servers, including sometimes outdated or packages in apt, and random unecessary API calls to canonical servers
benji@reddit
It started way before the 2010s. I left in 2007 because it was obvious shuttleworth was a dick.
wearysurfer@reddit
You don’t spend that much time on this sub?
derankler@reddit
Once upon a time, ubuntu was the #1 choice, especially for new consumer hardware.
Known-Watercress7296@reddit
Seems the norn to go for Ubuntu.
Reddit has a bit of an issue with it, but not sure that matters much.
jqVgawJG@reddit
I'm mildly bitter about ubuntu because, since its inception, it's virtually impossible to find useful answers to issues on the internet, since ubuntu marketed itself as beginner friendly, resulting in the typical online resources now being bloated with dumb questions
ddyess@reddit
You could probably just read one of the dozen or so daily posts asking the same exact question
venerablenormie@reddit
Same reason no music nerd recommends Britney Spears to someone who wants to know about music.
sinfaen@reddit
They should use flatpaks and not snaps. Instead of reinventing the wheel they should've worked on making flatpak better. On Linux Mint and Asahi I can install something from flathub, and then automatically get updates for those applications. On Ubuntu, I have to remember to update my flatpaks.
That's my main gripe with it for now. Other than that, it works just fine.
kwyxz@reddit
This thread was posted four minutes before yours and has several people recommending Ubuntu.
Userwerd@reddit
It's a little bit side lined by flashier options that use Ubuntu as a base. Similar to what Ubuntu did to debian.
OkOutside4975@reddit
We’re not friends on socials. Love me some Ubuntu!
Alenicia@reddit
My experience is that Ubuntu was the best, the #1 option, and the easiest distribution to get into .. but that was decades ago. The Ubuntu that exists now (especially for normal users/consumers) isn't the same thing as what it was ages ago .. but their Server stuff is still nice for that kind of work.
It's not that it's "mainstream" for me .. but it's more that it's just not what it used to be and I don't like the direction Canonical went where they've taken the wheel and started doing stunts and tricks for show .. and less for the users.
omniuni@reddit
I recommend KUbuntu all the time. Especially since the minimal install doesn't even use Snap, and has a one-click helper to enable Flatpak
CrudBert@reddit
I use Kubuntu. I do hate snaps though. I wish I had known about this when I loaded the OS ( I did not do a minimal install). Good tech tip for new installs!
eboody@reddit
It's somehow become fashionable to shit all over ubuntu but my opinion is that anyone recommending anyone else to a new linux user is doing them a disservice
chaosmetroid@reddit
As someone who been using Linux for over 20 years. At first it was fine but the company has done odd approach with the OS at time better and or worst.
You would just be better off using Debian and putting gnome DE and there's your "clean" install of Ubuntu without bloats.
I have better experience with other distro though. Fedora is one of them
ut316ab@reddit
You say it is one of the most popular and yet no one recommends it. That doesn't add up. If no one is recommending it, then how is it one of the most popular?
murilommen@reddit
because you don't get to say "I use Ubuntu btw". it simply doesn't click you know....
TheTaurenCharr@reddit
I still recommend Ubuntu and Mint to newcomers. I just don't specifically tell someone to use Ubuntu. I also recommend Fedora and openSUSE to people who are familiar with the ecosystem want to learn Linux furthermore.
Sure, Ubuntu has its fair share of criticism, but it's still a fine experience for people. Although, I'm not a fan of the installer, which failed on me many times now. That's why I installed Fedora on family computers and set things to handle stuff automatically - that I can reliably look into how things are going once in a while.
I just don't think Ubuntu is a bad choice, but i know a lot of people in the academy, including myself, that recommend Ubuntu, along with context to distributions in general.
inbetween-genders@reddit
That is a very weird statement as I recommend Ubuntu all the time. Also the statement “Ubuntu is too mainstream for hardcore Linux users” is super cringe 😬.
chiya_coffee@reddit (OP)
the comments say otherwise
inbetween-genders@reddit
It’s still recommended for people new to Linux along side Mint.
1369ic@reddit
I started using Linux just before Ubuntu was a thing. When I got around to trying it, it didn't run as well on my hardware as what I normally used, which was Slackware back then. It always seems to sacrifice more performance for convenience than most "easy" distros, so I never stay on it long when I try it, so I don't really know the state of it first-hand, so I don't recommend it.
DFS_0019287@reddit
I personally do not recommend Ubuntu for two reasons: Mainstream Debian is about as user-friendly now, and IMO Canonical is an absolutely dysfunctional corporation. So you might as well use the OG Debian instead of the Ubuntu derivative.
Not sure why others don't recommend it.
kaskoosek@reddit
I havent tried debian.
I would never use is a distro that is not debian based.
I might some day try debian but i see no reason to take the risk if im using ubuntu. There is nothing wrong with it.
SaxoGrammaticus1970@reddit
I used to recommend it all the time for beginners, especially the Plasma variants, but I'm rethinking that now given their intent to use snap packages in a heavy-handed manner.
kaskoosek@reddit
I feel like ubuntu is the best distro.
Also has the best documentation. There is no reason to use anything else, even on VMs.
xte2@reddit
It's a matter of time machine: back then when Ubuntu was a better Debian many, me included, recommended it for many YEARS because it was not too buggy, easy to approach for newcomers, with vast and moderately fresh repos etc. Unity (Lomiri now, essentially abandoned), hated by some, was indeed the best modern floating windows desktop we have had. But Ubuntu slowly start to change and new competitors or simply other pre-existing distros have evolved much more and better. At a certain point in time they start to force a crappy package manager, snap, and that's was the deal breaker.
These day Ubuntu is of little to no interests. For those looking for classic mode distros, those who like working with the distro, for the distro, Arch is much more well done and software rich and fresh. NixOS for those who want an immense repo (see repology stats) and an easy to reproduce distro, easy to change etc who can easily upgrade from a major release to another without breaking is the other mainstream option. Guix System follow for the FLOSS purist, albeit for desktop usage it's not much ready being too centred around INRIA HPC community. Some from old corporate world like RH derivates, some who want the old Ubuntu have chosen Mint.
Ubuntu is an once good distro, having lost the steam. That's is.
oneiros5321@reddit
It's still getting recommended and was probably the number one recommendation before.
Now replaced mostly with Mint, which is based on Ubuntu.
vkazanov@reddit
Ubuntu is a default dev linux distro in most corp environments i been working in, and I have seen quite a few.
It is not about "recommendation" anymore, more like "the default".
Personally, I think it is good enough, and all the things they do on the hardware vendor side are great and benefit everybody.
dinosaursdied@reddit
Ubuntu is still the most popular Linux distro. Many people might recognize Ubuntu before they recognize Linux itself. As a result, a large portion of people using it are casual computer users. This is similar to more mainstream options like Mac or Windows. The aren't going on forums or Reddit about it unless it's for help.
People who are "in the know" or who are Linux enthusiasts will likely prefer something that fits their personal ethos. Ubuntu has also made some decisions that sparked a lot of internal debate in a community that has very strong binary perspectives.
Educational-Cry-1707@reddit
Probably the same reason that hardcore fans of anything almost never recommend the most popular option. I don’t think it’s really made for people who are already using Linux. It’s whole thing seems to be to entice people from other OS’s
DunamisMax@reddit
I’m hereby officially recommending Ubuntu. I’ve used every single Linux distribution there is extensively and have 10 years of Linux / Unix experience. Very comfortable with it all. I still prefer Ubuntu to any other distribution whether it’s for desktop or server use. Ubuntu Server is simply the best Linux server operating system that there is in my humble opinion.
There, now you’ve seen someone recommend it!
LBTRS1911@reddit
I recommend it along with Linux Mint for new users. I specifically like Kubuntu as I prefer KDE over Gnome.
whatstefansees@reddit
I can't confirm - I am an ubuntu-user for 18 years now and have recommended ubuntu a thousand times - like a lot of others I see here.
mimedm@reddit
When it was new it was constantly recommended and hyped and now it's basically the most mainstream distro you can have. It's pretty good but there is just no need to recommend it unless to your grandma or other person using the first time.
branch397@reddit
Xubuntu works fine for me since I think XFCE is close to ideal. I do quite a bit of personal programming, and I set up a workspace in the panel for each project, eight in all which includes one dedicated to this browser. In each project workspace I open as many as 5 or six terminals, and name them after their main function or the directory they use. Each day when I boot my PC all that stuff is ready and waiting. One MINOR complaint is that they don't save the order that the terminals are in. They all come up in the proper workspace and with the correct title and directory, but "compile" might be on the far left today and on the far right tomorrow.
As long as I'm blogging about how nice Xubuntu is, one linux feature I did not use for many years but have fallen in love with is alias. If you frequently type the same command line like "cd /my/favorite_directory/sub1" just make an alias so you can type "cdm" or whatever and it executes that command.
krysztal@reddit
There are better alternatives, plain and simple. Also, a lot of the above/below points as well
Individual_Budget933@reddit
Snaps are trash for a desktop OS
Mindless_Listen7622@reddit
I can recommend it. I've used it as the primary platform for OpenStack development and operations in a startup and the corporate environment after we were acquired. I've also used it at home as a desktop and headless base for a RKE2 kubernetes clusters. I find it preferable to IBM/RedHat, especially after they killed CentOS.
ficskala@reddit
Ubuntu is the distro i always recommend to anyone who just wants to move away from windows
I don't personally use it because i don't like gnome, and kubuntu has been unstable for me
GraphicAxe@reddit
I like it personally
Mister_Magister@reddit
because its dogshit?
drawnbutter@reddit
For the same reason that Red Hat wasn't recommended back around 1998-2002 or so. It's commercial, it's common and it has the reputation of being "easy" so it's simply not cool enough.
tabrizzi@reddit
The UI is one of the most hatted things in Tuxland. Ranks up there with my personal distaste for GNOME's UI.
Orkekum@reddit
i recomend it