PLEASE TELL ME THAT THIS MAN IS STILL ALIVE?!!!
Posted by xenomorphonLV426@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 154 comments

Watched Nemesis yesterday night. I don't care about the spoilers, I couldn't SLEEP, bc mister Data exploded in a million pieces. đđđ
Please tell me he's alive I am crying.
This character, essentially was (HOPEFULLY IS) all the big question humanity has, WHO are we, WHAT are we here for, what happens after life.
Data is just the way Gene Roddenberry portraited these questions.
And I loved the character that was (hopefully, IS) the greater character, sometimes better than Picard. OFC Brent Spiner was the perfect actor for the role.
WhiteRabbit86@reddit
Not gonna lie, thought you meant Brent Spiner, and I was about to be real sad.
Outrageous-Buy-4958@reddit
Go watch all 3 seasons of Picard.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
I will, after DS9!
(Thanks for the advice)
Mr-Doubtfire@reddit
Just watch the last season. I don't know what the first 2 seasons are but it's not star trek.
DrSkyentist@reddit
Read "Making It So", Patrick Stewart's memoir. It's a delightful read until you get to HIS conditions on returning for STP. Don't think I'll ever forgive him... Let's just say they did the best they could with what they had
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Sorry, what condition? And is STP, star trek Picard?
Blue-Turtle1@reddit
In Making It So, Patrick Stewartâs memoir, he shared that he had specific conditions before agreeing to return as Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: Picard. His conditions reflected both his deep respect for the character and his desire to take the story in a new direction. The main conditions were: 1. No return to The Next Generation style: Stewart did not want Star Trek: Picard to be a traditional reunion of the TNG crew or to simply recreate the past. He was adamant that the show must be different in tone, style, and character development. 2. A more grounded, character-driven story: He wanted the series to explore deeper, more personal and philosophical themesâfocusing on who Picard is as an older man, rather than continuing the usual spacefaring adventures. 3. No uniform: One of his symbolic conditions was that Picard wouldnât be shown wearing a Starfleet uniform, at least not at the start. This was to emphasize that the character had changed and was no longer part of Starfleet. 4. Creative involvement: Stewart also wanted to be involved creatively and have input in how Picard would be portrayed and how the story would unfold.
These conditions were made to ensure that Picard would be something new and meaningful, not just a nostalgic cash grab. While many fans appreciated this approach, someâespecially those wanting a full TNG reunion or a more classic Star Trek vibeâwere disappointed.
DoctorAnnual6823@reddit
Tbh I'm glad it wasn't a cheap reunion. Family Guy gave us that. But I appreciate you breaking it down for us.
PsychoticGobbo@reddit
This. TNG's style was kinda crappy. And that's why it worked in the first place. Like the original Star Wars trilogy worked especially because they didn't have any CGI and everything was basically just more elaborated muppets.
If you created that style today, it wouldn't work, because it will look cheap af.
surplus_user@reddit
Though season one of Lower Decks played with that nicely.
Blue-Turtle1@reddit
credits to Chat GPT, I had to checked it because I was curious and then shared the answer here
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Well then... my dad said that Picard had a nostalgic cash grab even though the series was not meant to be like that. (Mainly, as far as my understanding goes, it was MAINLY something different.)
secondtaunting@reddit
It had its moments. If youâre a Trekkie itâs worth watching. There were some great scenes in there even though parts of it sucked. I always like Q and Picard scenes. And there were some damn fine ones.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Aight. Opinion noted!
secondtaunting@reddit
Plus there was some gold in the third season. I personally loved the attack tribble. I want it on a tshirt.
Gummies1345@reddit
And he apparently wanted everyone to try to forget what his character said in TNG, about all the bullcrap drama humans put themselves through, were done. No more fighting over petty squabbles, no drive or need for financial gains. And some other stuff. 20 something years later, they swimming in bullcrap drama human shit again.
allthecoffeesDP@reddit
I really respect his thinking here but the execution was awful.The guy in charge of the show was the author of Cavalier and Clay. A writer of satirical literature organizing and running a show as a complete Trek outsider. Ridiculous.
They could have paired the new approach with Frakes and a couple other writers etc behind the scenes who were part of TNG.
Scherzoh@reddit
While I was greatly disappointed in season 1 of Picard and do have questions regarding how much of that is Chabon's fault, describing him as a satirical novelist is doing him a disservice. He's a Pulitzer Prize winning novelist and writer. He was also a fan of Star Trek, which he bonded with his father over.Â
Thst being said, the first two seasons are insulting bad, regardless of the directions thry were trying to go in and Stewart's demands. Season 3, while admittedly not perfect was a better season by far and contained some fantastic moments and closure.Â
allthecoffeesDP@reddit
Fair enough. I didn't mean to insult Chabon. I just mean he seemed like an odd fit. Unlike Una McCormack or David Mack. And a writer's skill set doesn't match managing people, schedules, etc.
Scherzoh@reddit
Fair enough to you too, sir. He seemed like a great fit at the time, but I don't know how much he was shackled by the process of making the show and Stewart's demands. Or he could have just fumbled the ball in general with his own bad ideas.
I am a fan of the man's novels and writing, but definitely not a fan of the first two seasons of Picard. I've been a TNG fan since I was 6 years-old and was aghast at the show after watching it.
allthecoffeesDP@reddit
Absolutely. Cavalier and Klay was a great novel.
I've been a fan since I was young too. TNG kept me sane growing up.
BigPoppaStrahd@reddit
I was worried his demands were going to be terrible, but those are very smart and reasonable. Just too bad they fumbled the bag and made it so that the >!inevitable reunion in 3rd season was the most memorable part of the series!<
Outrageous-Buy-4958@reddit
The path that Picard took was creative. Also, in real life people do change over time (environment, cultural, influences, etc). In Picard, I believe that they captured this in a very unique way. All three seemed a bit darker than what we were use to, but I believe it kept us wanting to see more.
DrSkyentist@reddit
Yep, STP = Star Trek Picard and when Stewart was contacted by Paramount for the new series he had some incredibly strict conditions for his return which explains basically 90% of everything wrong with the series. The writers HATED it and begged for leniency, especially where the uniforms were concerned. But Stewart stood firm, though he thankfully softened on the conditions for the last season which is why it was so much better than the first two.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
I'll consider it.
kank84@reddit
I don't think they're as bad as most people say, but Season 3 is definitely the best one.
Acceptingoptimist@reddit
Picard seasons 1 and 2 aren't as bad as people say Season 3 is good. It's all kinda blah.
Neveronlyadream@reddit
Season 1 was fine. Season 2 was pretty bad because they rushed it during COVID because they didn't really have many options.
I honestly don't think the show was that bad, but the biggest flaw was trying to pick up after 20 years and just presenting a very different status quo without ever actually showing us how it got there.
Tom_Bombadil01@reddit
The entire first season is about how the status quo changed over the last 20 years. Pretty much every episode had a flashback to fill in the gap between Nemesis and the present timeline.
Neveronlyadream@reddit
It is, but we're also not shown very much.
I remember a lot of people being annoyed that Raffi was calling Picard "JL" and screaming about how he would never allow that. We never see Picard loosening his command style. We never see how he and Raffi met, we only see the end of his career with brief snippets of what happened before that.
We don't see anything concerning Riker and Troi, let alone their two kids that we aren't explicitly told. We never see exactly how Data was extracted from B4.
And that's my point. 20 years is a big gap. Presenting Picard as a lonely old man on the vineyard works, but only if we're privy to exactly how he ended up there. As it is, the last time we saw him was on the Enterprise-E as a very different person.
wb6vpm@reddit
true, but we only had 3 seasons of 10 episodes each to work with, so it would be too easy to fall into exactly what Stewart DIDN'T want, not to mention, just end up with basically entire episodes of flashbacks to fill in all the blanks. Everyone acts like this never happens, but it has happened in ST already, on a much larger scale, the time between TOS & TNG era... the "Lost Era" as it is referred to as.
Neveronlyadream@reddit
You'll get no disagreement from me. It's a tricky thing to balance explaining why the status quo has changed without just having half the episodes be flashbacks.
I wasn't personally put off by how much had changed, but a lot of people were and couldn't accept that Picard had gone from a strong captain of the flagship to a frail, sad old man wandering around the family vineyard.
It's just the problem with legacy sequels. You're stuck in a box where you either have everything exactly the same as it was or the writers have a headcanon of why everything has changed so drastically that they may or may not share with the audience.
The problem with Picard specifically is that I think too many important things happened off screen that we never get to see. Which isn't entirely the fault of the writers in this case, because Abrams used the destruction of Romulus to start off the Kelvin timeline and they were never going to have the time or inclination to show it, even if it was important to the backstory.
Still-Expression-71@reddit
Season 1 has a singular good episode and an insane nonsensical ending.
Season 2 is complete nonsense with plot points that go nowhere and characters that make insane decisions.
Season 3 is mediocre but a lot more what people wanted from this show from the get go.
All of it is ex emotionally forgettable. And itâs not just a new trek hate. I love SNW and LD.
HTired89@reddit
Season 1 is a slog but sure... Whatever. I guess you need to watch it to get introduced to characters.
Season 2 had an interesting storyline but as I understand it filming restrictions caused all sorts of problems and the end product isn't amazing. Not that bad though.
Season 3 is less TNG and more TNG movie but I'm ok with that. I actually really enjoyed it. Your mileage may vary.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the information! (My dad says he like it, all of Picard. So imma do as he says. Advice from people that care about you are always considered carefully. You enforced my dad's opinion so imma go ahead after DS9 and treat myself with the tree seasons of Picard.)
kank84@reddit
They're also pretty short, so they won't take you long. All 3 seasons of Picard are about the same length as a single season of TNG.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Yeah... probably not long... (TNG took me about 7momths.đ)
slinger301@reddit
If time is a factor, Season 3 could be watched as a standalone. Each season is an independent story arc with minimal carryover to the next season.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Alrighty then!
Methystica@reddit
First season isn't bad. Second season is genuinely one of the worst seasons of Trek ever. Maybe THE worst.
CrazyGunnerr@reddit
What is all this hate, seriously. So many have such an obsession about what Star Trek should exactly be.
By all means, if you think it's mediocre or not your thing, by all means dislike it. But gatekeeping what is and isn't Star Trek, and by that also giving the finger to people who did like it, and do think it's Star Trek, just isn't helpful.
On top of that, people need to stop romanticising older Trek, those shows had a ton of bad episodes, conflicting facts etc.
John-A@reddit
Showrunner was literally told to make a show explicitly based on TNG fan nostalgia "less like Star Trek."
Seriously.
I suspect the executives reversed direction 180° but doubled the pressure for s3. Wildly overcorrected imo from intentionally antagonizing fans and Boomers specifically to just shamefully coddling Boomers and half drowning the rest of us in fan service. Sure s3 is far better than 1 or 2 but so is a concussion.
RumpMuffin@reddit
Season 1 was basically Mass Effect
IceWarm1980@reddit
For me the first few episodes of season one are decent. It goes off the rails soon after. Season two is skippable. Season 3 is what we should have gotten from the start.
esdubyar@reddit
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not Star Trek.
Gatekeeper begone!
BrandonW77@reddit
First season was fine. Second season was just a rehash of Star Trek IV, it was kinda fun but didn't really fit with the other two seasons.
rottdog@reddit
I enjoyed it for what it was.
No_Detective_But_304@reddit
You can skip all three seasons of Picard⊠Stop at DS9.
davidolson1990@reddit
Ds9 is excellent. Lots of character development
West-Solid9669@reddit
Watch voyager first too!
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
It's a terrible advice, Picard 1 and 2 make Nemesis seem like high art.
Tom_Bombadil01@reddit
The first season is really good and explains what happened and how Picard changed over the past 20 years. The second season isnât very good. Production was rushed and itâs a lot of filler. The third season is by far the best and is a great send off to the TNG crew.
DannyBoy7783@reddit
Just watch season 3. You can easily skip seasons 1 and 2.
The-Great-Xaga@reddit
Hm you will get massive backlash. Picard isn't a good show
ClintBarton616@reddit
You really don't need to watch em. Just make up something in your head, it'll be better.
Or go with what was proposed in the Star Trek 09 prequel comic - Geordi gets help to rebuild him.
slinger301@reddit
The "Big Hero 6" option.
MCSquaredBoi@reddit
Oh, it's of course a good idea to watch DS9. If you plan on watching DS9 and Picard, watch DS9 first.
ArcherNX1701@reddit
Yep!
watanabe0@reddit
DO NOT WATCH PICARD, IT IS DOG SHIT.
FinnFerrall@reddit
The first two seasons are! Third season is amazingâŠ!
watanabe0@reddit
No, sorry, third is schmuckbait.
m205@reddit
New terminology unlocked đ„
SebastianHaff17@reddit
You are my kind of person. Unvarnished truth. And it is truth.Â
frankduxvandamme@reddit
No, it isn't. It's better than the first two, but still not very good.
SebastianHaff17@reddit
What cruel adviceÂ
TexasTwing@reddit
Oh no. Donât do that. Skip seasons 1-2, at a minimum.
Outrageous-Buy-4958@reddit
Picard 1 has a tie with 3. If nothing else at least those two.
GainHealMark@reddit
Season 3 of Picard in particular healed my wounds from Nemesis (and you have the benefit of not having to wait 20+ years to see it).
Winter_cat_999392@reddit
*raises a once more valid NCC-1701-D teacup*
Outrageous-Buy-4958@reddit
I believe Picard 3 did a lot, especially that.
Facehugger81@reddit
Don't you worry Mister Frodo. Dont you worry one bit.
CaterpillarOk4820@reddit
Some say that everything that came after All Good Things is non-canon and just fanfiction.
Potential_Resist311@reddit
Pretty sure Brent Spiner is alive.
FoodExisting8405@reddit
Heâs dead, Jim
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Thanks, Spock.
PuzzleheadedProgram9@reddit
Canonically, Data will persist farther into the future. Picard wraps up TNG better than Nemesis. ( The show was already perfect the way it ended), All Good Things is the best series finale I've ever seen.)
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Agreed. All good things... MUST come to an end.)
xXAcidBathVampireXx@reddit
I hate to break it to you, but he was never alive to begin with.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Damn... I never thought about that.
He is alive because of his quest, to be MORE human.
(Keyword is More! He is still human. In more of a hypothetical fashion though.)
Spider_Dude@reddit
As of this EXACT moment, only his android head is in a cave mine near San Francisco's Presidio.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
Indeed... I forgor...đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
47of74@reddit
If you mean Data's actor Brent Spiner, yes he is stll with us.
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
No, I am talking about Mister Data!
Thewrongbakedpotato@reddit
Well, it's all in how you define "life" and an "individual."
Did Data die during Nemesis? Yes.
Did Data have a backup copy? Also, yes.
Did said backup copy get dumped into a mainframe that existed by itself for twenty years before being allowed to die by Picard? Yes.
Did said backup copy have another copy that lived in a secret database with the corpse of Captain Kirk and then finally get forcibly integrated with its insane prototype brother and maybe its cobbled-together daughter to create a new engram which is basically Data but sometimes he's grumpy? Also, yes.
It's complicated, OK?
xenomorphonLV426@reddit (OP)
What did I just read?!đ€Ł
Aight, I'll take your word for it. It's complicated alright!
watanabe0@reddit
Only if you count Nemesis. Which I don't.
If you do, yeah, dead.
computerkermit86@reddit
I like to imagine him, about 700 years later, being facinated by the banter between the voy doctor and his copy from living witness, about the name "Joe".
McBloggenstein@reddit
Does he have the grey stripe in his hair?Â
xBolivarx@reddit
In my vision he does
NewLife_21@reddit
They brought him back in a couple of books, then in Picard, too.
AdPhysical6481@reddit
Why are the down voting you, you're right.
computerkermit86@reddit
maybe because that is not a good thing.
NewLife_21@reddit
Eh, it's a matter of opinion. In the books it was very well written and made a lot of sense.
I haven't watched Picard so I have no idea if it's any good there or not.
computerkermit86@reddit
doesn't sound so bad, the books, I mean. :)
computerkermit86@reddit
doesn't sound so bad, the books, I mean. :)
NewLife_21@reddit
Possibly because they didn't know about the books? I haven't watched Picard, but from what little I've heard about Data's story arc, it sounds a lot like the books. Maybe the writers "borrowed" some parts of the books.
Either way, it was a good story and I was glad I bought those books.
JethroSkull@reddit
OP is going to read this comment and think you're wrong and then find out the answers and be like "wait why were they down voting?"
Mental-Street6665@reddit
Watch the third season of Picard.
documentiron@reddit
Nope heâs dead. You see shoddy copies of him in Picard as well as a weird tuvix situation of him and two other people
indigo348411@reddit
đ đ đ
BlockObvious883@reddit
Season one of Picard deals with Data's death in Nemesis. It's my favorite thing about the season. There's more closure for him as well in season 3. Picard isn't the greatest series, but it did do a decent job of picking up some of the threads from the abbreviated movie run. The Borg Queen was the highlight of the second season for me.
Ok-Calligrapher-4069@reddit
Man I just⊠I donât know how to approach this
joshmo587@reddit
The whole entire series was kind of blah, but the last half of season three was kind of worth it, Iâll admit it: I cried.
SirMandrake@reddit
Hes alive and well, just saw him on an episode of Night Court last week. Brent was hilarious!
drunkdumptruck@reddit
He lives inside all of us.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
It was all so stupid and lame melodrama. I chose to stay on the future showed in All Good Things were Data is still improving his humanity after all these decades and have like a billion cats.
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
He should've died in Nemesis. Him sacrificing himself to save the rest of the characters was huge and bringing him back completely negates his actions.
Gummies1345@reddit
Nah, him not using his robot brain to realize there will be two people to teleport. Why Data only grabbed one personal transporter, before flying over to the other ship, is just beyond my understanding. They only made Data that stupid because..."shock value."
Spocks_Goatee@reddit
Nah, he deserved a better movie than Nemesis to go out on.
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
They all did. "All Good Things..." was a perfect capper to a mostly great series. I could have done without the TNG films.
Ad_Meliora_24@reddit
I would say the sacrifice was real as Data had thought that the memory transfer failed and truly thought he was going to die.
watanabe0@reddit
He does die in Nemesis. All the rest are copies.
AnimusFlux@reddit
I know, right? Imagine a beloved logical Star Trek character sacrificing himself in the ultimate display of humanity and friendship, only for them to be brought back to life later...
tony_from_somewhere@reddit
I wonder what a Star Trek where Spock had stayed dead would have been like. Shifting to Saavik trying to live up to Spock's reputation would have been interesting. Too bad she wasn't more of a Xon-like character, aka the proto-Data.
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
REMEMBERÂ
sausage_eggwich@reddit
except nemesis was a bad movie so no one remembers it fondly. nothing of value lost
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
Yeah, yeah. Star Trek III. I get it. But as the capper to the entire TNG franchise, it would have worked better if he really did sacrifice himself. Spock was never supposed to return (at least that's my understanding), but they pulled him back in and we got the 2nd best Trek film (IV).
dingo_khan@reddit
Gotta disagree here. It felt half-assed, like a reread of the end of Wrath of Khan. Combined with the B4 whistling... It felt like a half-assed lead-in to a Search for Spock that never happened.
I don't mind killing him.. He deserved a death that did not feel like someone else's.
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
The whole film is a retread of Star Trek II, right down to the battle inside a nebula where sensors are rendered useless. It went over the line from homage to rip off pretty blatantly.
tony_from_somewhere@reddit
He should have been recast and come back as B4. His old memories merging with (and improving) the cruder programming would have created a new being who both was and wasn't Data. It'd be like a Trill or when Doctor Who regenerates.
That'd let us keep Data around despite Brent aging out the role, and give him room for future character development.
(I do like Data and Lore merging though, because in a way it's Data sacrificing himself for his brother - something his brother didn't deserve and thus is very illogical and human of Data, showing that even if Lore's emotions made him more human in one way, Data's empathy made him more human in another.)
sausage_eggwich@reddit
except nemesis was a bad movie so basically no one remembers that moment fondly. nothing of value lost
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
This is a fair point. The only TNG film that was decent in my opinion was FC, and I'd give that one 2.5-3 stars out of 4.
dakbailey@reddit
The short answer is...kinda.
I'm of the opinion that Data has been sullied by Kurtzman. You'll find this out in Picard, S1 and S3.
technicolorsorcery@reddit
I've never actually watched any of Picard except for the scene where >!Lore and Data fight and then merge into a single personality !<but the recaps I've read honestly sound like such a disrespectful and disappointing way of handling the android characters.
JethroSkull@reddit
Yes. Sadly I think the correct answer is that, once you find out the answer to this question, you'll have been better off still wondering.
Gummies1345@reddit
Wellllll....I can tell you, that that Data did not survive. Later his conscience was remove from that other android, b-4. It was taken to a place where you hear/see about it in the Picard show. You may not want to know if he truly comes back or not.
Ok-Professional-1727@reddit
Yeah. This is why I've never watched it
Electronic-Floor6845@reddit
I refuse the stupid Nemesis timeline. It didn't happen.
Lazerith22@reddit
Sort of?
Kiki1701@reddit
In this timeline, he's dead but they find a "new" one. Called B4, which they call a Noonian Singh pun.
SebastianHaff17@reddit
He's dead. Gone. Kaput. Deceased.Â
donkeyhoeteh@reddit
Of course he's alive! He's fully functional.
Nawnp@reddit
They try to bring him back in Picard, no idea of the outcome.
WatchfulWarthog@reddit
Yes, then no
thesithcultist@reddit
Outside of alpha (on screen) canon in the countdown comic book series in 2009 (Beta or B grade canon subject for being overwritten) shows he was remade/integrated with his brother B-4 and a memory backup and was captain of the newest enterprise E. Subsequently Picard(show) has came out and did something other than this. But this was Data's good ending that stuck with me.
FragrantExcitement@reddit
A bit concerned on if you were talking about the actor or character.
Igotnewsocks@reddit
Heâs dead.
Farscape55@reddit
Yes and no, mostly no
thatthatguy@reddit
Data will always be alive in our hearts.
To adopt a phrase from a different franchise: âDoes this unit have a soul?â âThe answer is yes.â
ChrisNYC70@reddit
he was thrown back in time and space and now lives in NY under the name âBob Wheelerâ
Prudent_Leave_2171@reddit
He just went to live on a big starship upstate⊠where there are lots of short-haired blondes to play with in the fields, and Sherlock Holmes programs loaded in the holodecks⊠and Geordi comes to visit him every weekend.
SatBurner@reddit
Or from the only Jeff Foxworthy comedy I know "Data ran away"
quartofchocolimes@reddit
Canon is whatever you want it to be
EducationalTeam2498@reddit
Commercial-Day-3294@reddit
Yes. And he sings. Its amazing.
Shuatheskeptic@reddit
The old X-Men quote comes to mind. "Hey I thought you were dead?" "I got better."
AdPhysical6481@reddit
"I have often wondered about my own mortality, as I have seen others around me age. Until now, it has been theoretically possible that I would live an unlimited period of time. And although some might find this attractive, to me it only reinforces the fact that I am... artificial.
It provides a sense of completion to my future. In a way, I am not that different from anyone else. I can now look forward to death."
Don't feel bad, he wanted it to happen.
impeesa75@reddit
He makes the occasional appearance on the new Night Court tv show, reprising his older role of a yokel along side his wife
Django-UN@reddit
Jgolu12@reddit
rawaka@reddit
He's died and alived a few times in the show. Lol.
Sad-Masterpiece-3116@reddit
Yes, he is alive, I saw him like 2 weeks ago
theuglyginger@reddit
That depends on who you believe has the power of Canon. I'm willing to believe that the characters in Nemesis are the same ones we see in the TNG series, but I leave it to you to decide if Picard is about that same universe.
AlwaysSaysRepost@reddit
Brent Spiner returns as B4DATAX2, who sacrifices himself, but returns as DATAX2, created by a clone of Noonian Soongâs unknown sonâŠ