The deadliest accident in aviation history happened just hours after this photo was taken... March 27, 1977.
Posted by MadAvgeek@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 157 comments
Posted by MadAvgeek@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 157 comments
Superb_Picture_4829@reddit
I have seen so many analyses of this disaster and feel like the resounding theme is Van Zanten's arrogance. I wonder if it is convenient to blame him when this is very much an example of the "Swiss cheese model" involving numerous oversights and errors. Is it fair to identify a linchpin in cases like this?
Cold_Flow4340@reddit
The buck stops at the end of the chain of events—the command decision to press the throttles to takeoff thrust.
Superb_Picture_4829@reddit
It's a powerful lesson, especially since the CVR had the first officer questioning him then yielding. He was probably intimidated and afraid to press him. Possibly similar to Korean Air 8509 where the flight crew failed to challenge the "highly regarded" Captain and essentially just allowed the plane to crash.
ccguy@reddit
So many what-if’s:
If any of those things DOESN’T happen, no crash.
Bombadilo_drives@reddit
That's why we have the accident though, right? Like, imagine each of those points as random dice rolls where a 1 indicates failure. We probably have dozens of times with one or two failures every day, but only when you roll nine 1s in a row do you get catastrophe.
Fast_Stick_1593@reddit
It’s also the Swiss Cheese model.
PlinketyPlinkaPlink@reddit
The graphic in that link made me understand the model instantly. Thanks for posting.
Lower_Arugula5346@reddit
the covid one? that was super interesting! i watched it twice!
hi_im_mom@reddit
Operated a nuclear submarine for a while. We referred to this often. 90% of the time lack of rest was one of the reasons. Guess what we never fixed?
biglocowcard@reddit
SSBN or fast-attack?
hi_im_mom@reddit
Fast boat
noreasters@reddit
Also probably one of the most controllable (in my uneducated opinion); staff up, schedule less activity, or disengage to fight another day. Lots of mistakes are due to a false sense of urgency as well.
Skilldibop@reddit
In aviation you are taught not to react immediately. At least for fixed wing aircraft anyway. The saying goes "when faced with an emergency the first thing you do is wind your watch.”
Meaning panic and unnecessarily rushed responses cause mistakes. Take a few seconds to gather your thoughts and what info you have to make an informed and deliberate decision about what to do next.
Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit
Not super controllable on a submarine, but in general it's just a question of sufficient planning and will to implement that plan.
brother_of_menelaus@reddit
Submarines famously have plenty of space to include additional staff
Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit
Yes, this is what I was getting at.
Ethwood@reddit
False sense of urgency=someone at the top has an inflated sense of importance
Throwawaygg66rrff@reddit
I'm really curious here...... it's a warship. A warship to hunt other warships. They didn't train for play time. I don't understand the philosophy presented here.
Please tell me how you connect the dots of those two data points to 'inflated sense of importance'. I don't see it. You either want people capable of carrying out this mission, on command ..... or you don't.
If you don't.... why build it in the first place?
Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit
There's a middle option where everyone suffers, but others suffer more than you. That's the best one, obviously.
Throwawaygg66rrff@reddit
There's no middle option on a warship.
junk-trunk@reddit
and the military STILL hasn't gotten ot rightm they always preached crew rest rested troopers ect ect.. still having folks pull 24 hr duties and then expecting them to drive back to their homes safely, run ranges all day with no breaks, flying on extentions or giving extention for mo thly flying hour maximum ( maybe not so much now in peacetime but during operations it was expected you'd ask for extentions on the monthly flight hour totals ect)
Throwawaygg66rrff@reddit
What boat?
Throwawaygg66rrff@reddit
6 years in the RL Division of SSN 718 before it was cut up. The Swiss Cheese model was never once referenced in my time there. Your mileage may vary.
6 on 12 off isn't pleasant, but there's plenty of time for quals, cleaning, training, maintenance, etc. Plenty. Then, it slowly gets better as you become educated. Quals loosen up as you learn more. Duties become routine. You can choose to skip movie night and hit the rack. Then, when everything is caught up for you.... you get an equalizer. 12 solid hours in the rack.
In short, your time is tightly constrained when you're new and loosens up as you learn.
What division were you in on the boat and what boat?
SurfenBerd@reddit
Interestingly enough, the Swiss cheese model was made obsolete a few years ago in Naval Aviation when we get our annual Crew Resource Management training. We primarily cover the threat and error management model now.
Fast_Stick_1593@reddit
Still use it in Aviation Human Factors
Pantycrustlicker@reddit
We learned there's usually a chain of minor things that lead to an accident and to try to be mindful of it.
Of course that's easy to say when you're not the one flying.
mnztr1@reddit
One more IF: IF the Pan Am has not fully turned across the runway but has used a shallower turn angle to move to the side of the runway, could the KLM have squeezed by and maybe sliced of the Pan Am tail? Pan Am was such a legendary brand and such a wonderful name. So sad they don't exist.
blinkersix2@reddit
So many variables that this should never have happened. As my dad always said IF a frog had wings he wouldn’t bump his ass so much.
swiftsure1805@reddit
And if Van Zanten had properly listened to his First Officer when he was challenged about Pan Am not being clear of the runway, instead of just dismissing the thought. That's the most tragic part for me, that the FO clearly knew they were heading towards potential disaster but couldn't stop it.
m71nu@reddit
Safety systems are designed so that no single failure can cause a disaster. It’s the cascade of small, unlikely issues that come together to create these events. With so many flights every day, though, every now and then, that cascade will happen.
wggn@reddit
another big one:
allaboutthosevibes@reddit
He did, I believe. But only barely. So two more ifs are: - If Captain Van Zanten listened to his hesitation - If there weren’t such a high cockpit power differential between the very senior Van Zanten and the younger first officer, maybe the FO would have spoken up more
insaneplane@reddit
Today we have Crew Resource Management to address exactly that issue.
allaboutthosevibes@reddit
Exactly. CRM and the use of “departure” before clearance vs “takeoff” once cleared in pilot-ATC communication are two HUGE changes in aviation to come directly from that accident.
iam_unik@reddit
In so many Ifs....the last If... If at least at last van zan tan had given some attention to his flight engineer's call "Is he not clear than Pan Am"?
Griffin_456@reddit
you forgot the biggest ‘what if’ here
what if Van Zanten wasn’t a raging asshole who said ‘fuck it’ and did whatever he wanted
nearly everything else was outside his control. he personally fucked up by just doing what he wanted and being an impatient dick.
fucking stuns me that a pilot could let his ego become that big
Admiral_Cloudberg@reddit
This idea that Van Zanten ignored lack of takeoff clearance and his FO because of his huge ego is a myth.
Van Zanten wasn't closely listening to the ATC communications at that point because he was busy turning the plane around at the end of the runway inside a runup pad that was only a couple meters wider than the 747's turning radius. The FO was listening to the radio communications. When the FO pointed out that they didn't have route clearance, Van Zanten realized he was right and stopped. Subsequently the controller used the word "takeoff" in the route clearance, which is a huge no-no for exactly this reason. Van Zanten was in a "let's get out of here" mindset. He was also a simulator pilot and he hadn't flown a real line flight in 12 weeks. In the sim, the instructor gives takeoff clearance; there's no ATC—so in a high stress situation, his instinct was to take of without clearance; he was in a hurry; and then ATC used the word "takeoff" in a route clearance. That word was exactly what he was expecting to hear and I don't think the rest of the context for that word ever processed.
In fact, the first officer told ATC that they were taking off, and in my opinion this isn't because he had acquiesced to the captain taking off without clearance, but rather because he also thought they were cleared for takeoff. Remember, just seconds earlier he had interrupted Van Zanten to remind him that they didn't have route clearance. It makes zero sense to argue that he wouldn't just do that again if he knew they didn't have the even more crucial takeoff clearance.
Most people who knew Van Zanten say he wasn't especially overbearing or mean. The portrayal of him as such in various Tenerife media is circular; i.e., it comes from other Tenerife media, and not from the facts.
Van Zanten made a huge mistake that led directly to the loss of 583 lives. His name is indelibly associated with that. But he didn't do it on purpose.
PozhanPop@reddit
In a training class I once met a colleague of Van Zanten. His eyes filled up when he was teaching us weight and balance and the swiss cheese model and he mentioned the kind of things that can happen. I too felt something just overwhelming me at that point.
Griffin_456@reddit
oh shit, it’s the Admiral Cloudberg
I stand fully corrected then. I appreciate the complete explanation
lheritier1789@reddit
I'm honestly jealous of you for getting to be corrected by Admiral Cloudberg. Yay learning things!
ccguy@reddit
Honored that you commented, Admiral.
CollegeStation17155@reddit
Not totally his fault, though... not wanting to take a ding for exceeding flight hours and the system not being tolerant of exigent circumstances.
fresh_like_Oprah@reddit
That's why "root cause" investigations are usually bullshit
fresh_like_Oprah@reddit
oooo, we got some CAPA ladies in the house
Mithster18@reddit
That's a lot of slices of Swiss cheese
LiterallyJoeStalin@reddit
This has to be the absolute most Final Destination part of this whole thing. What are the chances they transmit the exact same time for the exact same amount of time and never have a chance to realize the other transmitted, and because of that overlap no one else on tower frequency realized it either. Absolutely crazy.
AVeryHeavyBurtation@reddit
Mmmm... Sixty-four slices of ~~American~~ Swiss cheese.
Thurak0@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster#Communication_misunderstandings
Tower and Pan Am both wanting to warn KLM. So fucking tragic.
DietCherrySoda@reddit
Correct. Swiss cheese. 3, 4, 5, 6 of these bad things might happen every day, week, month, but when you have 9 or 10 layers, you only get the real bad thing happening every 50 years.
gymnastgrrl@reddit
We're coming up on that timeframe… can you not phrase it that way please? ;-)
blastcat4@reddit
The industry has improved measurably in those 50 years to plug many of those holes and prevent an incident of that scale from occurring again.
The challenge, however, is not creating brand new types of holes.
duggatron@reddit
They've fixed a lot, but we almost had an accident this bad at SFO a few years ago when Air Canada almost landed on a taxiway full of widebody aircraft. There are still too many holes in the Swiss cheese.
Te_Luftwaffle@reddit
Unfortunately, "pilot doing stupid shit" is a hard hole to plug.
dagodog69@reddit
D.C. over there like "Hold my beer, I'm about to speed run this"
CuriouserCat2@reddit
There’s far less redundancy and far more cost cutting now. Outsourced maintenance. At least at QANTAS
ItsD3adly@reddit
We have had some pretty catastrophic airline crashes the last year though :/
CollegeStation17155@reddit
Swiss cheese model... the holes aligned.
raidriar889@reddit
On the other hand, imagine how many near misses there have been where just one or two extra things going wrong could have caused a crash
Googalslosh@reddit
Chaos is a ladder. -Littlefinger
Jeanes223@reddit
From a video done by Mentour Pilot's, good channel, he states that these accidents aren't a sudden event that happens but a series of incidents that pile up to create a perfect storm.
flyguygunpie@reddit
Fuggn a I can’t tell if I’m back in my crm class, human factors, or accident investigation class. Are you zathmary, Martinez, or brickhouse?
Firetribeman@reddit
RIP 583
SubstantialPound8296@reddit
Many grandparents, including my own, were on the PanAm flight. I was a toddler (4yo) when they were killed and it shattered my mom - she was never the same afterwards.
I've done a fair amount of research on this crash over the years. My mom had been told at the time that it was an ATC error. As an adult, learning more about the compounding events/errors has been helpful for me to process it all.
If there can be any kind of silver lining to this event, it's that the lessons learned are still important and relevant today. Please keep learning from it.
holylight17@reddit
52 children 😢
KBeezy202@reddit
Im lost… what happened?
clintkev251@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster
theVaultski@reddit
Why does it beat out 9/11
clintkev251@reddit
Because 9/11 wasn't an accident
Neptune7924@reddit
I never really thought about what a crazy photo this actually is, the foreshadowing is so ominous.
Kolec507@reddit
I'd genuinely call this the most haunting photo in aviation history. Fucking chills.
QUANTUMDORK-MAXIMUS@reddit
Well What happened ?
MadAvgeek@reddit (OP)
search about Tenerife disaster
QUANTUMDORK-MAXIMUS@reddit
Oh okay Thank you
FenPhen@reddit
Didn't know the KLM plane was named "The Flying Dutchman." How unfortunate.
upbeatelk2622@reddit
It was not named that. Every KLM jet had The Flying Dutchman as a tagline.
Wikipedia: The aircraft was a Boeing 747-206B, registration PH-BUF, named Rijn (Rhine).
Quirky-Property-7537@reddit
And the Pan Am 747, sharing in the long tradition of naming their “Clippers”, was named “Victor”.
blumirage@reddit
*have. They still have it.
Cautious_Use_7442@reddit
FIFY
upbeatelk2622@reddit
d'aww, good morning to you too.
FenPhen@reddit
Ah. Well, it still adds to the eerieness of this photo.
Maybe not the best name to put on all the planes!
Fast_Stick_1593@reddit
Similar how NASA called their space shuttle “Challenger”
When that went wrong they quietly changed the future names of shuttles to be something that what they believed to be “wasn’t testing fate”
VaughnSC@reddit
Oh puh-leeze. Only one orbiter was built afterwards (and only to replace Challenger) and the others were christened Enterprise*, Columbia, Discovery, and Atlantis; do any sound particularly cocky?
*OV-101 was technically a glider, was passed over twice to be made ‘space-ready.’ Challenger (OV-099) was another test article that was retrofitted. Endeavour (named for a British ship hence the ‘u’) was assembled from spare parts.
FlyingCementTruck@reddit
It’s not a name in this sense, it’s more of a slogan. After all: the KLM crew literally are flying Dutchmen. Modern KLM airliners have ‘Royal Dutch Airlines’ on them instead.
FenPhen@reddit
I get it's not the name of the plane. "The Flying Dutchman" is a cursed name, is all I'm saying.
BodybuilderSalt9807@reddit
Unpopular opinion hut it seems KLM was the main reason this happened.
nutellatime@reddit
Sure, not the terrorists who set off a bomb.
EmmettLaine@reddit
Are you a wild conspiracy theorist? Or are you just mistaking this with another incident? Because the KLM pilot was completely at fault here.
nutellatime@reddit
Those planes wouldn't have even been at Los Rodeos if not for bomb going off at Gran Canaria. KLM pilot made mistakes but they shouldn't have even been there in the first place. Aviation disasters are a cascade of factors and the start of this one was the explosion and diversion.
BodybuilderSalt9807@reddit
The KLM pilot was totally wrong. Rushed when he was told to wait.
PozhanPop@reddit
We Gaan. : (
artificiallyselected@reddit
I’m sure most of you have seen it already, but the Mentour Pilot video on this accident is superb.
Ferocious-Fart@reddit
Looking at the wiki on it. Doesn't make sense that KLM would turn around on the runway and head back the opposite direction that pan am is taking off from.
clintkev251@reddit
They had to taxi down the runway because the taxiways were all blocked by other aircraft (as the airport was wayyyy over capacity). PanAm was doing the same thing as them at the time of the incident, taxing down the runway to bypass the traffic jam on the taxiway
CalculatedPerversion@reddit
There apparently was a strong wind that was best handled by taking off in that specific direction, however all the planes were parked at the other end of the taxiway, with a bunch of planes blocking the usual path. It certainly would be unusual to see a plane taxi the full length of a runway in any other situation.
cheetuzz@reddit
so the near jet is the KLM, and the far jet is the Pan Am?
CalculatedPerversion@reddit
Yes
OverPing80@reddit
Another interesting thing to this crash (although I'm not sure if this is true): Had all these events happened just 3 minutes later the fog would've cleared up enough for the KLM crew to abort takeoff (or not takeoff in the first place).
Everything went wrong that day
CalculatedPerversion@reddit
Not sure about 3 minutes, but the Medium report linked elsewhere in this thread indicated that the fog lifted enough for that to have happened as the firefighters arrived at the wreckage. So very shortly.
CryptographerRare151@reddit
Cool photo I've never seen I don't think
Rich_Independence757@reddit
Tenerife
dakjelle@reddit
Found this.. never heard about it.
https://youtu.be/_RBLM6qO0g0
LostOnEndor@reddit
Thank you for this. I wanted a short video to learn about it, so I wasn’t thrilled to see it was over an hour. I gave it a chance and watched the entire thing. Great recommendation.
WonderFeeling536@reddit
I was fifteen, I remember it happening. Dreadful
RecommendationAny977@reddit
that one person that deboarded off the plane has to be one of the most luckiest person in aviation history.
Prior-Program-9532@reddit
Tenerife. The answer is Tenerife.
Unsuccessful_Royal38@reddit
I teach about this in my psych classes.
Prior-Program-9532@reddit
This and the Gimli glider are still used as teachable moments to new pilots. Crew Resource Management became a very important subject after the accident.
Pixeldensity@reddit
Love the Gimli Glider story, I have a piece of the plane on a keychain.
HungryCommittee3547@reddit
That and 232.
jetlifeual@reddit
Avianca 052 is a good one to teach CRM, too.
sucksatgolf@reddit
I work arff and we also teach CRM in our fire officer classes. Some instructors retain the aviation aspect and others apply a NIMS aspect to it, but the takeaway are the same for either industry. Probably one of the most impactful classes I've ever taken.
dsolesvik@reddit
Überingen is quite widespread as a teaching moment in aviation as well, especially in Human Factors
JoyousMN_2024@reddit
Ooph, that's a bad one too. Not nearly as many lives lost, but so much trauma.
jonometal666@reddit
Pfffft this is why we go to Elevenerife
gymnastgrrl@reddit
Found the Spinal Tap
Electric_Bagpipes@reddit
As someone going through college to become a pilot,
Dear god Tenerife.
kpop_glory@reddit
Oohh. Damn I just got goosebumps fr
SuckMyRedditorD@reddit
Hope they caught the guy who took the photo and gave him a proper sentence.
OGBRedditThrowaway@reddit
These titles suck. Reddit mods needs to crack down on this growing trend of using tabloid titles for Reddit posts.
Tof12345@reddit
crazy how preventable this was.
Phil-X-603@reddit
Some events leading up to the crash were simply strokes of bad luck, like when Pan Am 1736 tried to inform ATC they were still on the runway, but it got blocked out by a radio glitch. And the fact that heavy fog just happened to be prevailing.
But you are right this was still utterly preventable. If only the KLM captain just didn't take off...
Every-Progress-1117@reddit
Ultimately, at the end it was the KLM captain's decision.
The accident report and subsequent changes to ATC, CRM and a host of other training procedures is absolutely fascinating reading. The 70s and 80s were a wild time in aviation safety with some very hard learnt lessons.
Probably one of the biggest ironies was the suggestion that van Zanten himself would lead the investigation.
WhoRoger@reddit
Actually I've always wondered about CRM training... Especially retraining during that time period. Like if it was common that the captain or whoever had the utmost authority and someone greener is just used to be quiet... Well how do you unlearn that? What could the training be like? Or did it require a generational change to set in properly?
I watched Nentour pilots' video about the Columbian plane crash where it was low on fuel and nobody knew about it and the first officer was too timid about it. So I was just thinking about this.
Every-Progress-1117@reddit
There was no CRM (C = cockpit/crew) training; there was a strict hierarchy and the captain was always right.
CRM didn't come about in its [early] modern form until 1979 (NASA Research). US Airlines were the first to endorse and start using this new way of thinking.
IIRC, US Airlines were brought into solve many of Korean Air's problems in the 80s and 90s after a long series of accidents and incidents.
WhoRoger@reddit
I mean it mostly on the people level. I get that processes has changed with more cross-checks and such, but there still has to be a change in thinking and behaviour. Like people needing to speak up when they notice something, and veteran captains maybe needing to wait more or accept corrections from juniors.
Humans are creatures of habit, and especially switching from strict hierarchy and authority to something more level often takes a generational change. Being from a post-communist country, I know that first hand, that's why I wonder how they managed it. A new way of thinking sounds like the most difficult part of this.
Every-Progress-1117@reddit
CRM wasn't just "invented", much of the psychological basis had been around for years (at least 15-20 years) and in some areas, eg: astronauts, had already been substantially developed and researched. The big thing that really happened was the realisation that cockpit hierarchy was becoming a much more important and decisive part of aircraft accidents and incidents. This was the driver, along with the development of aircraft accident investigation, to solve this.
I'd recommend you take a look at some of the books by James Reason on the overall topic of aircraft accident investigation. He wrote a lot about the psychological aspects and how these new CRM ideas were implemented.
If you want a real deep dive: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=the+development+of+cockpit+resource+management&btnG=
The first result is the book: Human Error in Aviation.
Not strictly my area, but I have applied the ideas in a different industry. The one difference I have noticed is that errors in aviation kill people, which is a big motivator for change.
If you want an easier introduction, try Atul Gawande's Checklist Manifesto (then after that James Reason's books)
WhoRoger@reddit
Thanks 🤗
xXCrazyDaneXx@reddit
Though, in the Linate accident, no one had any idea of where the Citation was at. Not even the crew of the Citation.
Every-Progress-1117@reddit
Another good reason for not taking off.
This is an excellent video about a similar situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uQqBsJ29IU
xXCrazyDaneXx@reddit
Though, that would require the SAS crew to be aware of the existence of the Citation. I honestly have no idea whether or not they were. It seems like the blame was put squarely on the tower though
Every-Progress-1117@reddit
Here's the final report: https://skybrary.aero/sites/default/files/bookshelf/480.pdf
Pages 121 onwards have details about the communication. The causes detailed from about pages 165 onwards put this down to the Cessna pilots and the tower.
One of the reasons for the SAS crew not being aware was switching to TWR from GND as instructed. But, TWR and GND should have been aware of the situation with the Cessna. Linate, it seems, was a "mess"
Rory_Mercury_1st@reddit
Tenerife has always struck me as the embodiment of the line "everything that needed to go wrong went wrong."
Too many events lining up to the crash that had one of them happened differently it wouldn't have occurred.
darps@reddit
Honestly the same goes for every crash of the past few decades. We just keep increasing the number of things that need to go wrong.
Take the midair collision in DC. A mix of civilian and military systems and comms, both aircraft flying low enough so TCAS didn't trigger an audible alert, helicopter pilots requesting visual separation at night presumably using night vision goggles, last-minute changes to the CRJ's approach path, and I'm sure there is more.
pjakma@reddit
That one wasn't swiss cheese model. Swiss cheese model implies a series of unlikely events lining up, to create an event that is statistically highly improbable. The DC situation - having a helicopter corridor at about 70 foot below the approach path to a busy airport (at the limits) was an accident _waiting to happen_. And indeed there were _regular_ TA events going off in aircraft making that approach. Frankly, it's amazing the DC crash didn't happen a lot sooner - inverse swiss cheese model if anything, a huge hole that somehow was missed for quite a while, until (inevitably) it wasn't.
Jermainiam@reddit
It is the Swiss cheese model, just the people who set up the helicopter route were taking a power drill to the cheese block
Own-Run8201@reddit
Swiss cheese.
wolftick@reddit
Classic Swiss cheese model stuff.
jld2k6@reddit
I want to joke that we took a model and likened it to cheese but I legitimately can't think of a better way to represent it lol
ssersergio@reddit
That place is always so full on Fog, the characteristics of the place channels the clouds to that place.
There is a common fake story about the designer who was looking for where to put the airport, died before selecting it, and the next ones misinterpreted and the place was signaled as a "don't out here".
The reality is that an island with this orography doesn't have any other place, we have two airports, and there are no more places flat enough
Tof12345@reddit
i was watching the tenerife video by neo and when he mentioned that fact, my jaw was on the floor. like what are the chances.
Rust_Coal@reddit
The painful irony of one of the planes being named "The Flying Dutchmen" as well. "The "Flying Dutchman" is a legendary ghost ship, doomed to sail the seas forever, often appearing near the Cape of Good Hope, and is believed to be a harbinger of bad luck or disaster."
iam_unik@reddit
In so many Ifs....the last If... If at least at last van zan tan had given some attention to his flight engineer's call "Is he not clear than Pan Am"?
HashtagCHIIIIOPSS@reddit
Admiral Cloudberg’s write up of this incident is fantastic.
moonlaketrip@reddit
Thanks for this - it‘s a really good article
moonlaketrip@reddit
The Mentour Pilot case study of this incident is worth checking out if you haven’t watched it yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9B9RN5quA
frozensand@reddit
It still gives me the chills that my boss had a ticket for this klm flight but decided not to go because something felt off
Phil-X-603@reddit
Apparently there was one woman aboard KLM 4805 who decided not to board the leg from Los Rodeos to Gran Canaria, because Los Rodeos was her final destination. She was the only passenger who survived out of the passengers aboard KLM 4805. Also gives me the chills
Fuzzy-Researcher8531@reddit
Wow, that photo is something to see. How fragile life really is.
Pilot impatient caused so much sorrow.
die_liebe@reddit
Is it known who took the picture?
Mattpat139@reddit
Gonna leave this here, Podcast About it. Warning: Dark/Gallows humor used to cope with immense tragedy
wutanglan89@reddit
I knew this was going to be WTYP. I listen to them religiously!
moosehq@reddit
Holy shit I didn’t know there were photos of the accident aircraft
RedditVirumCurialem@reddit
The fog hasn't rolled in yet. At this moment, they would've averted the disaster.
Every-Progress-1117@reddit
There are too many "ifs" to consider. Ultimately given the situation the KLM captain should not have started the take-off, fog or no fog.
MadAvgeek@reddit (OP)
I also shared this on my X! I would be so happy if you support, its just a new account!
https://x.com/aviationvibes24/status/1906641602879123670?t=jq9Ip4TvSPJgFP7W1FPR_g&s=19
Baybad@reddit
Use bluesky. twitter is bad news bears
T_ball@reddit
Walter Matthau….