Debates on Leaving US
Posted by Wild_Win_1965@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 143 comments
My partner and I got into an argument about leaving. I want to because of the state of this country and what seems like no hope of it turning around anytime soon. He wants to stay "to fight," essentially. Anyone have a similar situation/experience? Almost at the point where I'm just going to go no matter what, but I'm not sure if I'm overreacting.
LizP1959@reddit
A visa sponsored job is a rare and beautiful thing. It does not commit you forever. It’s an adventure. You can always come back.
Look at it this way. What do you potentially lose if you stay? You lose the once in a lifetime chance to travel and live in a fabulous foreign country. You MAY also lose personal liberties and security if you stay here. Worst case you may end up like Germans who failed to leave soon enough in 1939, with no way out after a certain point.
What do you potentially lose if you go? It can be expensive to move. But you can control a lot of that. If the man loves you he’ll go. If he’s a controller, or if he’s insecure, he won’t. Also if he is afraid to live abroad, or just doesn’t want to. It’s actually kind of a good test of compatibility. (I say that from personal experience.)
FrabeAnklin@reddit
I met a long-term traveler in Colombia recently. I posed a couple of big questions to him, and his response was really helpful and applicable to many decisions one might make. He advised me to not view any decision as permanent. Eg, you might return to the US at some point after giving it a go in Australia. Maybe that idea will help your partner feel more comfortable trying something new.
epiphanyinthestars@reddit
Exactly, nothing final until you dead. And even then I’m sure god negotiates.
LizP1959@reddit
This is an important point.
fishtrousers@reddit
You automatically lose personal liberties and securities by moving from the U.S. to Australia on a work visa.
LizP1959@reddit
My point is any loss to you in moving is probably temporary. If things continue the way they are going here? These are severe and dangerous losses.
fishtrousers@reddit
Australia already has substantially less civil freedoms than the United States does, so you are taking an instant loss to begin with. Being on a work visa gives you significantly less security (this one might possibly be temporary, maybe). So if a person wants freedom and security (rather than wanting to live in Australia), moving from the U S. to Australia doesn't make sense, even if you don't like the current administration. Look at how covid was handled in Australia vs various states of the U.S. and tell me honestly that the Australian government will protect your civil liberties.
LizP1959@reddit
Can you give some specific examples about the fewer civil liberties Australians enjoy? That might help OP decide.
fishtrousers@reddit
Of course. The first thing that comes to mind is the government's covid policy that led to the construction of a quarantine camp in Howard Springs. For less sensational examples, hotels were used too, so it wasn't just this one facility. If I recall, this was mainly happening Queensland and the Northern Territory, thought Howard Springs specifically is in NT. Australian citizens, typically those returning from abroad, were sent to these camps for weeks at a time, in a fenced in area patrolled by police officers. I think that most reasonable people would be frightened to know that the government can and will forcefully relocate healthy, innocent citizens to prison-like facilities for any amount of time if it finds a reason to. Such a thing has not happened in the U.S. since FDR sent Japanese-Americans to internment camps, to my knowledge.
Beyond that, there are the usual issues. Australia does not have freedom of speech. America's freedom of speech is not perfect, but it offers far more coverage. In Australia, anything that the government considers hate speech can be punished. Certain books and videos can be banned for political reasons as well. Whether you agree with it or not, censorship is censorship, and the government in Australia has powers that the government in the U.S. does not.
In addition, self-defense laws in Australia, much like most of Europe, require the act of defense to be proportional and reasonable in comparison to the threat. This restriction is not present in the U.S. as far as I know (perhaps in some States). That said, I should think that an innocent person should be allowed to defend themselves in his or her home with any weapon available, regardless of what a home intruder has brought to harm them with. Especially for a woman, self-defense law can make the difference between a horrible tragedy and one less rapist on the streets.
not_enough_weed@reddit
Can you expand on that.
fishtrousers@reddit
The U.S. government protects significantly more of it's citizens' personal liberties than the Australian government does. In moving, you give up those freedoms. Living on a work visa also gives you less freedom because it makes you much more dependent on your employer(s). It also gives you less security because you can be kicked out of the country at any time if a law changes. You should move to Australia if you want to move to Australia. Moving because you think the U.S. is imminently becoming 1940s Germany and you want to protect your freedoms, to a country that, only a few years ago, literally put up camps for people suspected of having covid and forcefully relocated them there, is absolutely delusional.
epiphanyinthestars@reddit
Babe take that job!!! Those offers are so rare. Australia is bad ass. You can always come back, but I’m sure that job offer has a time limit. Why stay for a hypothetical fight when you could go live and enjoy your best life? You only get one.
Caidan-Phoenix-832@reddit
Staying to "fight for the USA" has stopped a lot of people from pursuing greener pastures and perhaps a better, more peaceful life. People have been fighting to better the USA for many decades, and it has only gone downhill. In terms of personal freedom, re rank roughly 27th in the world. No matter which side of the aisle you're on, the fight will continue for decades to come.
Traveldopamine@reddit
You should be asking yourself what freedoms do you believe you've lost since January because of the "state of the country", and why do you think another western country will help you restore them.
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
America is a shitshow ... But it still beats many countries by far if you're not rich, don't speak another language and don't have a highly-marketable/in-demand skill.
If you ARE rich, speak another language, and can work overseas ... the explore this conversation deeper.
But, if you're like the majority of us: middle class, mono-lingual art majors who know more about what's going on in the current episode of White Lotus than what's going on with the economic/political issues of your desired country abroad ... maybe rethink things before making the leap.
Dreamer_Dram@reddit
America no longer beats many other countries, sadly. It’s headed for the Dumpster.
DifferentWindow1436@reddit
Politically yes. Economically, no. It is still very much the economic leader.
Dreamer_Dram@reddit
But politics trickles down into economics. However I’m sure there’s a big-picture I’m not seeing (not strong on economics).
DifferentWindow1436@reddit
In my jobs, I've had to do numerous international comparisons, typically for investing in product or making partnerships. Most people look at the popularity, sentiment, or politics in the US and figure it must be in decline or weakening or whatever. But when you actually look at the numbers, it is an absolute monster economy that is both broad (big in lots of industries) and deep (the industries have multiple strong players and a whole ecosystem).
No other country comes close tbh. The EU as a whole does. But not a single country when you look at a bunch of metrics. 70 days of Trump isn't going to change that.
BeautifulRow7605@reddit
Trump is trying to destroy the us economy and may succeed. Don’t downplay his willingness to burn it all down out of delusion greed and derangement
subydoobie@reddit
This. Scientists are the canary in the coalmine and he is forcing them out.
On purpose or not, he is doing all he can to wreck our economy in both the short and long term.
Fidel_Blastro@reddit
Academics are starting to leave as well. Yale just reported three lost to Canada. An anti-science, anti-education country doesn't have a bright future so I'm not sure how the USA will bounce back from all of this.
I just learned Italy and Romania changed their Citizen By Descent laws to be more stringent because of the surge in applicants from the US. There are probably many others, but these are the ones where my friends are making the attempt.
When a Republican gets elected, there are always those that threaten to leave and never follow through. This time is very different.
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
"I just learned Italy and Romania changed their Citizen By Descent laws to be more stringent because of the surge in applicants from the US."
Source? (Not doubting ... just curious to learn more.)
Fidel_Blastro@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/ExpatFIRE/comments/1jp6fp8/italy_slams_shut_citizenship_by_ancestry/
As for Romania, I know someone who has been working on it for a while and just learned they upped the language requirement to level B2, which is a considerable learning investment. Initially, there was zero language requirement. I can't find any article about it, but I don't know why a friend would lie to me.
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
Damn.
Canada shut doors, Mexico making things more stringent ... looks like other countries are preparing for the worst.
Fidel_Blastro@reddit
Also: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345769/yale-university-professor-fascism-canada
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
It is headed for the dumpster.
True.
But it has a nuclear arsenal/umbrella that keeps it at the top of the ignorant bully heap (even as the facade is starting to crumble.)
Again ... If a person is rich, can adapt to local language/customs and has a marketable skill ... then your point is valid and people SHOULD explore other options.
But, if you're the average Joe/Jane (and can't AFFORD to jump ship, and don't have a unique skill that translates internationally,) then America is still the best option.
Just my opinion.
sally_says@reddit
I think most people want more in life than to just be safe from nuclear bombs. But I couldn't even trust Trump to ensure that, tbh.
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
I think you're conflating a desire for freedom with the ability of nuclear weapons to provide said freedom.
Obviously, NOBODY wants to suffer under nuclear war.
My comment points to the strategic importance of a country that has a nuclear arsenal. We don't talk about it much, but it's the reason WHY people have freedom to not worry about nuclear war. It's something most people don't have to think about because it's a silent deterrent that allows the public not to have to think about it.
Other countries (that don't have such protections,) might prove to be more difficult to emigrate to without a strong support network. (Per my comment, above.)
In other words ... If you are poor, not white, monolingual, not rich and don't have a marketable skill, it's probably not wise to move to Rwanda or Venezuela because you're at the mercy of the conditions there (and the government's ability to safeguard your way of life.)
If I had to be poor, not white, monolingual and uneducated, I'd rather do it in one of the nuclear states, as it is less likely to succumb to external actors. If I was to move abroad, I think that's a valid consideration.
sally_says@reddit
I totally get what you're saying. However the reason I am sceptical is because I don't trust Trump NOT to fire a nuclear weapon towards another nuclear-armed country, who would of course fire one back.
If Trump was not easily manipulated, was measured, and dependent on qualified experts and specialist advisors before making decisions, I'd feel very differently.
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
I'm with you there. I don't trust that dude either, but just giving a recommendation based on my thoughts as the world exists at the moment.
Dreamer_Dram@reddit
There are so many ways the average Joe/Jane could lose rights and services in the next little while… but, it’s very hard to start over in a new country especially if you don’t know the language. In many ways it might not be worth it especially without money, as you say.
ultimate_zigzag@reddit
What. There are much better countries to be in if you’re not rich.
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
Did you read the rest of my words?
filmAF@reddit
fight for what? is the US worth saving, or more important: sacrificing your life?
spend an hour on r/PublicFreakout if you need convincing.
yougonbpind@reddit
You should do it!
Infamous-Mode4226@reddit
I’m leaving. Learning Portuguese and clearing up some loose ends over the next few years.
Aware_mexican@reddit
Go
GoalStillNotAchieved@reddit
We definitely need the type of people who will stay and do whatever needs to be done to turn this ship around and change our country so that we can be headed in a much better direction. It's going to take more than just merely voting and making phone calls.
That said, you have a rare opportunity, and who knows if you'll ever get an opportunity like this again. I would go. Try it out for a year or two. After that time period, re-assess things and decide upon your longer-term plan.
By the way, how did you go about getting a visa-sponsored Australian job? I'm all ears for tips!
HailBlucifer@reddit
What can you do besides vote, make calls, and donate to progressive causes? Cause you can do that from anywhere (I do). My mental and physical health, along with my finances are so much better outside of the States, but I still vote absentee, schedule calls to representatives, and donate money monthly to PP, SPLC, HRC, and ACLU.
subydoobie@reddit
You can organize locally in person.
You can knock doors,
you can meet people and have drinks with them.
You can organize people to talk to your local congress, state reps, governor,
You can bethe media, and record what ICE is doing in your neighborhood, be a citizen journalizt, start up a neighborhood meetup
there's alot you can do in person
And all this is why I have not left. At the same time I have the same conversations in my own head about staying or leaving.
HailBlucifer@reddit
Sadly most people don’t have the bandwidth for that in the States. Working multiple jobs, taking care of kids, not having transportation, not having health insurance in case you get hurt at a protest, not having paid time off or not enough. I had so many friends that agonized over wanting to do more but they realistically couldn’t. It sucks. I admire people that do all of the things you listed- if more people cared about and educated themselves about local and national politics the biggest demographic in the last election may not have been “didn’t care enough to vote at all”. But if the OP can’t realistically do them in their situation , they may be able to actually do more in a place where they can get by on one job, have mandated PTO, and universal healthcare.
subydoobie@reddit
The protests in my area are extremely safe. Probably safer than driving your car around town with the crazy drivers in my town lol.
They are staffed with LOTS of volunteer peackeepers and medics.
bravoeverything@reddit
Most ppl with jobs don’t do this.
subydoobie@reddit
You would be surprised. I work at least 40 hours a week, sometimes more than thatspread out over about 6 days a week. I cram in many of the above activities between the end of my day which is around 7 PM and bedtime. I do however have flexible work hours. Often I can do 10 to 12 hour work days so that I have time off to do those things.
However I dont have any young children. It would certainly be more challenging if you had kids under the age of 11 or 12 and a full time job.
On the other hand I was a full time single working parent for years so I'm used to having little discretionary or down time and cramming as much as I can in.
For example, now that I can send texts with my watch, I'm able to do some organizing work while driving, housecleaning, etc.
annedmornay@reddit
Exactly–resistance can happen from elsewhere. The warning signs have been clear for a long time…the canary in the coal mine has passed. Those of us who recognize historical patterns have already left—or are in the process of leaving (especially if you’re in a marginalized group). It sounds like you’re well aware, and you have the opportunity and privilege to leave. If your partner isn’t on board, focus on protecting yourself. Perhaps then he’ll come to his senses.
LesterHowell@reddit
Go! How old are you? You will always wonder what might have been if you don't try it. Your immediate situation should be on par with US if not better. It is a better place to raise a family now and imagine the gap will only grow.
TechPsych@reddit
Let's set the implosion of American democracy and society aside for a minute.
A job offer with a visa? What luck!
In a wonderful (albeit imperfect) Australia? Double lucky!
Thought experiments:
Regardless of those answers, if you go - you can always come back.
As for staying "to fight." Thanks to the internet, there's plenty that can be done from afar. And your money being spent (at least mostly elsewhere) makes a point too.
And then there's the foreign earned income exclusion - which may apply:
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion
As for having a partner involved in this process, well, THAT is tough. Consider going to a reputable therapist who specializes in couples counseling - and in particular making big decisions together. Even if it doesn't result in a clear path forward on this issue, it will strengthen your communication skills which is always good for individuals and the couple.
Good luck with your decision-making process and let us know where you land!
Wild_Win_1965@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the thoughtful response! So after much deliberation - and I mean deliberation haha - I decided to stay here for now. I know that’s against what 80% of people here said to do. I made many pro and cons lists, ratings, and honestly it came up very even. I decided no mainly as I am pretty early on in my career (archaeologist). I just took a new job here in the US after a long period of unstable employment and unemployment. I first want/need to develop my skills a bit more. That way if I do leave and come back, I’ll find work more easily. If I leave this position now, a place where I already left once before, I’d be breaking this bridge in a very small field.
I think personally taking away the politics issue really helped. I was in a bit of fight or flight mode because of the political issue. I’m not entirely happy with my current job either, which doesn’t help. But I need to ensure that I have some more experience to be more marketable in the future. The job in Australia is in a slightly different direction, meaning less transferability to the US job market; and I’d definitely have to make sacrifices and put up with some uncomfortable things. As I’m an archaeologist, this field position would mean long projects (up to 12 straight days) in very high heat (40C) while walking tens of kms a day for AUD 75,000 (USD 47,000). Money wasnt a huge factor, but it is a pay cut in a higher COL city than I am in currently. All this is something that if I needed to leave or deliberately wanted/decided to do, I would do it, but not just on a whim.
Also, I’m pretty sure I can reach back out if I needed to urgently leave or something - they were very casual about the interview as I got in contact with them through a well-known contact.
I think I’ll probably revisit this idea in a couple years, because living in Australia has always been this dream I’ve had. And as an archaeologist I’d love to work there. I’m kinda sad that it didn’t work out, and just 10 years ago my decision would have been very different. But making my peace with it for now.
With my partner, we had a very good conversation about it before - and then got heated most recently, especially as I was getting more anxious about deciding no. There’s definitely some kinks and differences that we need to talk about if moving abroad comes up again.
FallofftheMap@reddit
The best way to resist is to take what you contribute to society somewhere else. Protesting a government that doesn’t care what you want isn’t effective. Voting in rigged elections isn’t effective. Removing yourself from the U.S. economy, taking your most productive earning years and giving them to a different country is, at least to some degree, effective. It doesn’t fix the unfixable America, but it takes what little power you contribute into the system away.
Powerful-Mirror9088@reddit
Take the job. You can fight better FROM abroad, safely.
cic45654@reddit
Aussie here, who spent many years working in the US
Come to Australia. The best thing I did was move back home. And there are heaps of Americans moving here now, people that have worked here or have relatives here etc are moving here. We need skilled people and a third of us were born somewhere else so we are very open to new people. Of course nowhere is perfect but we come closer than most places
Wild_Win_1965@reddit (OP)
Yea the one thing is that the job is in the Pilbara and very hot. Trying to also balance if it’s the right job personally and if the situation in the US is dire enough to take it.
cic45654@reddit
If it’s in the Pilbara could you just negotiate it to be FIFO from Perth… which is a lovely pleasant city like mid sized American city except with good amenities and services. The only downside to Perth would be the time zone makes it as inconvenient for North America as possible
JRLtheWriter@reddit
I'm an American and have been an expat for the past ten years and I'm currently living in Australia. A couple of thoughts:
One, I suggest depoliticizing the conversation about whether you leave or stay. If you have specific concerns about how the current political climate will impact your life, then definitely take those into consideration. Otherwise, you should make this decision based on how you want to live your day to day lives and what your long-term goals are.
Two, Australia is a really nice place but it has many of the same issues as the US, just to a lesser degree. There's a rising cost of living and a housing shortage, there are tensions about immigration, and there's a Trump inspired political opposition that will be completive in the next election. Of course, as an expat you won't have to worry too much about Australian politics.
I'm in a comfortable position. My wife came here for work and they really wanted her, so the compensation and the relocation package reflected that. But depending on where you are and how much you're making, housing will be a concern. Also, Australians can be very parochial. The joke here is that when people meet, they ask each other where they went to high school. So, if you're the kind of person who really wants to find a community and form close friendships, that may be difficult.
Also, know that you'll need private health insurance and you'll have to pay something to send kids to public school. Overall, once you figure exchange rate and taxes, cost of living is on par with the US, but you get a higher quality of life.
Wild_Win_1965@reddit (OP)
Thanks! As an American who moved out, how is the quality of life higher there? I’m guessing those would help in deciding how the “day to day lives” you mentioned would look like.
demographixs@reddit
American who moved to Australia. I would agree with some of the previous post. I love in Perth. My partner and I have good stable jobs (physiotherapist and teacher). The housing issue can definitely be a trip to work around but I do feel if you have an advanced degree you will be able to make it work after a while. The other things I noticed is that at least the places I go, there are many migrants which is awesome. As a 30yr old, for me it was just finding things I enjoy doing (improv, climbing, volleyball) and then meeting people. At least 30-40% of the people I have met are migrants and are happy to hang out if you click. But that's just my own personal experience. If you go into regional areas it might be a bit different though. But that's the same as everything you do.
Also there is a certain comfort knowing that stuff like medical insurance and schooling for the most part is very affordable (compared to the States) and there is significantly less gun violence.
Wild_Win_1965@reddit (OP)
So I’d be going to Perth too! Though on a working holiday visa at first and then they’d sponsor a visa later. Even with having to get private insurance, would you say medical costs are cheaper?
demographixs@reddit
Definitely cheaper than the states. I currently pay about $215 AUD a month for my partner and I with HBF. Mine is slightly cheaper cause my organisation is a non for profit and gets a small discount for private insurance but on a whole, definitely affordable if you have a solid job. And even if you don't have a job, when you are a resident, you have access to Medicare so you can at least get GP visits partly covered if you can find a place that bulk bills, I believe.
ozsomesaucee@reddit
Another one chiming in - how old are you? I moved here in my late 20s. My insurance was around ~AUD$200 a month with extras (dental and optical). Was lucky I never went to the hospital and the only time I ever used it was for teeth clean and an eye test. Late 30s now and I rarely go see a GP and really only go to see the docs for women’s health related stuff.
JRLtheWriter@reddit
A couple of caveats. I haven't lived in the US for a while and I lived in SE Asia between here and there, so take my comparisons with a grain of salt.
Working culture here is more laid back; public services, including public transportation, is generally more reliable; there's less crime; and the weather is pretty mild in most places.
thewhiterabbit44@reddit
You're not overreacting at all.
America is about to crash. Idk how no one is seeing this. He took away repercussions for genocide, constantly provokes enemy countries, is lining the u.s border with military vehicles and much more. We won't even get into the economy... I mean we're already in a recession and it's getting worse.
I'm leaving the U.S very soon. I don't think people realize just how much things are about to change. Those not already 10 steps ahead are going to be stuck. Everyone is too busy being in denial and it's going to hurt later. Why can other countries see clearly what's going on and somehow we can't?
sally_says@reddit
Because of the polarising media landscape, echo chambers, and desensitisation to extreme politics, I assume.
People would ask me the exact same question when I went abroad after Brexit (I'm a Brit).
HVP2019@reddit
Well my Ukrainian brother stayed home partially because of government’s mandate but mostly to be there for 2 sets of elderly parents, house, pets, business. While my sister in law took kids and went abroad. This isn’t an ideal situation but this is how they are handling this difficult times.
sally_says@reddit
How has your brother and sister fared since?
What a terribly difficult decision that must have been.
Hausmannlife_Schweiz@reddit
Moving to another country is hard. If you are moving just because you are unhappy with politics AND your partner doesn’t want to move you will probably be miserable.
Theal12@reddit
Or you’ll find a whole new life minus a partner who doesn’t understand your concerns
Fidel_Blastro@reddit
What does "stay and fight" mean specifically? I hear this and when I ask the question, it's usually just vague notions of civil action/duty and voting. Well, you can boycott and vote as a US citizen from abroad. Protests pretty much mean nothing in a political climate where the opposition sees a protest as a successful result (libs being "owned").
Theal12@reddit
Do your research on the state first. ate as is so gerrymanderEd by Republicans that your vote has little effect
genzbiz@reddit
you want to leave the us for aus? have you done the research on how their government works and how people like it? grass is greener
Theal12@reddit
Are you a woman? Have you seen what it’s like for women in red states?
Tardislass@reddit
Worst time is to move just because of politics. Especially if you haven't researched the country you want to flee to. There are racist, sexists and downright awful policies in every country and the worst part about being an expat is that you have no say in how the country is run because you can't vote. So if you see the country going in a wrong direction, oh well.
Also please remember to look at finances and if you can actually move. People never take moving expenses into consideration and moving to another country is almost double what moving to another state would be. Not to mention, buying new furniture and appliances.
Taxes-always figure this into your budget. As Americans you will still have to file.
Theal12@reddit
Are you a woman of child-bearing age in a red state?
Greyman4152@reddit
American that moved to Australia nearly 20 years ago and am super grateful to be here. It’s definitely different and you need to be ready to embrace those differences. Americans that move here focused on the things they miss about America don’t last long or enjoy it. I’d recommend trying it, you could always move back. It’s a great place and the people are awesome.
BitterSkill@reddit
Rationally, you should leave and they should stay. You are two separate people, literally and ideologically. Giving respect to all the ramifications thereupon, you should each do as you will.
asselfoley@reddit
He's going to have to fight because their published plan stated outright bloodshed was the only recourse
ImJB6@reddit
If I could get accepted, I’d be gone before the end of the week! LEAVE!
Ianshaw2019@reddit
Go. WIth Trump/Vance, America is on the road to recovery and a new golden era. You'll be happier in Australia.
GermOrean@reddit
I'm curious as to what was so bad that there needs to be a recovery? America has been the wealthiest country on the planet by a wide margin for decades.
Hopefulwaters@reddit
Not the person you were replying to, who is obviously totally fucking unhinged as every possible metric has gotten worse and will continue to degrade under Trump and Elon.
But yeah, let's not pretend there weren't problems before the dictators took over... they even used those problems to say how fast they would fix them (like the price of eggs). Really the price of eggs is a place holder for all sorts of issues our country needed to sort out concerning cost of living form housing shortage, inflation, healthcare, wages, etc etc. All that seems like small potatoes in the rear view now that we're fighting techno fascist Nazis just for our very rights to live and breathe...
GermOrean@reddit
All things considered though, Americans have had it pretty good. We have large houses, good wages, cheap goods, and low bills (gas, petrol, electricity).
If you think it's bad stateside, it's worse in the other western countries.
Definitely the healthcare system is cooked though.
Hopefulwaters@reddit
Not really, Americans have it good if you are lucky enough to elder 40s before everything turned to shit. If you are early forties or younger, then unless you were a lucky tech bro or inherited wealth then you are far better off in most other countries.
GermOrean@reddit
Eh, dont necessarily agree. I live abroad now and things are much more expensive, and salaries are lower over here.
A tank of gas is $130ish, eggs are always $8-$10, a 1kg block of cheese is $11, and a pint of craft beer at a bar is in the $13-$16 range.
The median house price nationwide was over 1M, but that has since dropped. The houses are a bit shit too.
QoL is way higher over here, though.
Substantial_Ebb_316@reddit
If you have enough money to get out, then I would leave. Most people do not have that privilege. If you can retire get out. If you can be sponsored, take it. Otherwise most people are stuck they don’t have that opportunity. It’s a lot harder to move out of United States unless you have a lot of money, or you can become a citizen through ancestry of some kind, or a company will sponsor you, which is rare. Good luck. 🍀
Busy-Sheepherder-138@reddit
There is no reason that you cannot also still put in a good fight from abroad. As expats we still get to vote, we can still writer our legislators and we can still do organizing.
doubtfulisland@reddit
We're going to Australia. It's not perfect but it's a hell of a lot more functional, no active shooter drills for the kids, the people are lovely, the coffee is good and they invented the flat white despite what the Kiwis claim.
Sparks_is_awesome@reddit
Whoa! They invented the Flat White! the Flat White is my fav!
whymeimbusysleeping@reddit
And pavlova, might as well claim that too
Timely_Froyo1384@reddit
A job and a visa!!!!!!
Nice, why make it about stupid government issues.
Make it about the adventure of doing something that doesn’t come to many people.
MsLPicard@reddit
No not wrong at all! I would trust your gut and it’s a golden opportunity to work in Australia! You definitely should go and if it doesn’t work out or you change your mind, come back to the US. I hope you can stay for a good 4 years. Lucky!! I know it isn’t luck either but what timing! In life you are given a golden opportunity no matter what’s going on here in the US. Your partner can join or visit you when you are settled. Just a thought? I want to go to Canada but it’s not so easy. I’m still working on what to do and when.
This country is heading in the wrong direction. Very depressing and sad.
Redstrokes69@reddit
Politics aside:
I just sold everything in America and bought a one way flight to EU. Best decision of my life! Quality of life changes: my skin problems have disappeared, probably because of the food. Everyone has been kind and welcoming to me. I’m surrounded by historic landmarks. Looking at divine architecture that’s 1000+ years old has a way of grounding you - reminding you of your humanity… it is incredible.
I am an emotional and vulnerable person. I think people see my desperation to not go back, and I’ve already had multiple people begin trying to get me a job in their country. They know, they understand, and they support me. At least this is my experience so far.
I came here with a hopeless dream. The people have given me hope and I am not looking back. Again, this has been the best decision of my life.
I also left my longtime partner for this. Sometimes we have to choose ourselves first and when that time comes, it comes. It seems you already have… embrace it. Wishing you the best!
bravoeverything@reddit
Fight what? How? The only thing we can do is vote and there are no elections currently. Unless your partner is a judge or lawyer, what can he do on the daily?
RedPanda888@reddit
What are they already doing to fight? Or are they just using it as a possible excuse?
Last-Customer-2005@reddit
He is a man so it's not as bad here in the US for him. I've noticed even empathetic men do not get how scary it is for women rn. Take the offer and see what it's like to live somewhere new: you may love it! You'll never know. The states sucks right now, I wish I got an offer abroad so I could gtfo. I'm a Canadian immigrant here and I travel abroad relatively often- quite worried I will get detained at some point.
bprofaneV@reddit
This is true. Even men who have seen firsthand how women have to fight for their freedom and choices don’t get how bad this administration is and will continue to be. They still think the Handmaid’s Tale is improbable.
greenplastic22@reddit
I always say, "Leave while you can." You have a route out, I'd take it. Do you want to stay to fight? What does staying to fight mean? How does him fighting impact you and your priorities?
I don't really know how you could be overreacting. There are a lot of people with normalcy bias. But things have already blown way past normal, I think. A Yale professor and fascism expert, Timothy Snyder, has taken a job at University of Toronto in Canada and made the point that it's not the money drawing him to leave.
I'd been working to leave for years, and now I'm getting a lot of "You were right" texts from people who thought it was weird how much I wanted to get out of the U.S.
Could he go with you? Is he afraid to leave?
If you don't leave, and things go the way you think they will, how much resentment will you feel toward him if he's the only reason you'd forego this visa?
Wild_Win_1965@reddit (OP)
I read about that professor too, which kinda made me even more worried. As a historian myself I’m seeing signs.
He could come with me but has aging parents that he is close to, and I completely understand that. I’m also trying to find jobs nearer to their home for that reason. I think because he works in social activism he wants to fight for the community he works for. But I’m also like you gotta protect yourself. And if you get Australian permanent residency that allows you access to Medicare, which is a huge draw for me as I get older (currently 30M). He also hates moving, even between cities. We’ve been together 12 years.
bprofaneV@reddit
I left three and a half years ago because America was heading the wrong way. You can still fight and help from overseas. Unless you are actually planning on picking up guns and picking sides in a possible upcoming Civil War, then you can fight support and contribute from overseas without being worn out and it crushing your very soul. Also, you can invest in new opportunities overseas, but you will have to leave your 401k alone. And do not convert it to an IRA (some countries will tax you). Now, I can invest in European defense companies. Thanks to ‘Merica.
photogcapture@reddit
Just here to say it’s important to fight, but personal self care is also important. Marginalized groups will have it the worst, and while he may pass, he will be singled out at some point along the way. Go where you are welcome and where you have a job and visa.
Worth_Location_3375@reddit
You won't be spending money contributing to the American economy. That's protest enough.
SimplyRoya@reddit
Women are more scared of our state in this country. I'm a woman and my first thought was to leave asap. My son didn't want to leave though. When we talked about it, I made him understand that everything will affect him too and he finally agreed. Maybe try to explain to your husband that anything that happens to minorities and women will affect his life and eventually he can't fight against a government that's lead by a dictator.
mandance17@reddit
Well if your partner made it clear they don’t want to go then you should respect their boundaries and not argue with them. The ball is basically in your court, you know where they stand so it’s now on you to decide your future
nadmaximus@reddit
It's not your responsibility to fix the country. You need to live the best life you can. A job with visa sponsored is a rare opportunity indeed.
fraujun@reddit
I wish sensible people would stay and help
KiplingRudy@reddit
What kind of fight can he put up that he can't do from Down Under?
Calls, donations, votes, can all be done from outside the U.S.
Go. Just go.
jquest303@reddit
My fiancé and I just bought a home in the jungle of Costa Rica so that’s our exit plan. We are staying in the US for the time being but if things get worse we are out of here sooner or later. Buying property in CR and getting married down there grants us both permanent residency. We are close to retirement age and have savings so we won’t need to work much longer.
Foxfinder23@reddit
I’m trying to find some reading/video material on the CR influx and how they are handling infrastructure. Bc right now, I’m seeing a lot of expats saying they are not keeping up, and they are not protecting their trees due to the growth. If you have anything to share I’d greatly appreciate it. This is my exit plan too (and has been) and it’s giving me pause. Terrified to sink life savings into a house and end up depressed there as well due to everything being overbuilt. It’s a conundrum as I realize I’d be contributing.
jquest303@reddit
Our neighbors have purchased all the land around us so it cannot be overdeveloped and they are all committed to conservation. Over 100 acres around us. We have a gardener for when we are not there keeping things trim for us. We have 4.2 acres with an ocean view.
Foxfinder23@reddit
That’s awesome. We would certainly want preserve surroundings. I just meant as a whole, lots of conversation of how they are handling (or not) the growth.
jquest303@reddit
Yeah things grow quickly down there. We have 3 different kinds of monkeys, iguanas and tropical birds on our property so it’s important to preserve as much of the wildlife as we can.
freebiscuit2002@reddit
“… o’er the land of the free, and the home of the brave! (who want to run at the first sign of trouble)
Thunderbird_12_@reddit
This ain’t the first sign …👀
coproliteKing808@reddit
I feel like your husband couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
Typical do nothing but scream at the TV American "patriot"
Unless he's actually gonna join the military and Actually Fight, he ain't fighting anything
If he wants to stay, don't let him hold you back.
I'm not even being sarcastic. Get out and see the world while it still exists.
Blessings and mahalo 🤙🙏
Foxfinder23@reddit
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, the whole stay and fight thing is played out.
rajasekaran-invest@reddit
As an expat lived in Australia and currently in USA. You are going to see some issues in Australia as well. Unless you are living in a CBD the outskirts felt like deserted. You are right on the situations in IS are not ideal. Opportunities are far less in Australia compared to USA. So do a thorough research on your field( you might have a job now, but for the future). Unfortunately aussies are not that friendly at all, but it also has a lot of expats, so you might find a great community around. Food is usually expensive, because a lot of it being imported. As others said housing is a big problem.
clybourn@reddit
I want you to stay so I can fight you and win.
PathConfident5946@reddit
Having nobody to stay and fight is exactly how the dumpster fire burns down the whole country.
BeautifulRow7605@reddit
I agree that the best time to fight was before the election. And I did. And it failed. I dunno I am struggling with this
BeautifulRow7605@reddit
You’re definitely not overreacting, and I’m struggling with the same thing, but we have to stay alive to fight another day and I think a lot of of us won’t if we stay, we fight from elsewhere too
casscasl@reddit
I’d leave with that job offer. I oscillate between leaving and fighting. If I had a job offer there’d be no question for me.
RelationshipGlobal90@reddit
I’d go. Great opportunity and leaving a shitstorm.
dreamcatcherpeace@reddit
If I'm being honest, the "stay and fight" argument sounds like an excuse to not leave his comfort zone. It's also easier for an American man to make this statement than an American woman in the current climate. I'm an American woman who left a relationship when our goals didn't align to move to Spain. I have ZERO REGRETS. Imo, it would be worse to decline the opportunity and miss out on the growth that you could experience elsewhere.
bangkokredpill@reddit
I've lived over seas, and know the benefits. I plan to retire to Thailand myself as well.
With that said, there is no better place to accrue wealth and prepare for a comfortable retirement.
If you've ever lived in a country with no social security or social systems in place, then you'll likely see the benefit quickly as to why we pay high taxes and put up with the rat race.
Also, the U.S. isn't the only country going thru huge social disagreement. Most of Europe is changing drastically as well and the public in France, England, Ireland, and many countries are having the same arguments.
alexa-etc@reddit
Absolutely leave!! You have a dream offer 😭😭😭 I’m working so hard to upskill, change careers just to hopefully get a chance to leave
Wild_Win_1965@reddit (OP)
You got this!
Humble_Hat_7160@reddit
I’m an Australian-raised, dual AU-US citizen (41M), married with 11F kid. We have lived in the US for 10 years and it very much feels like home. Until recently we had no desire to ever move back to Australia, but now we are having a similar debate and I go back and forth daily on my stance. Sharing my perspective here in case it’s helpful.
I do think democracy in the US is cooked for the foreseeable future, but feel we will end up more like Turkey, Hungary or Poland with an authoritarian government and no true opposition. I, too, have an activist bent and a desire to stay and fight, but sadly don’t believe there is much that can be done by individuals at this point (as history shows, the time for activism was before the election, and it’s probably too late once a fascist is elected with an absolute majority).
Australia has its flaws and an increasingly vocal right wing rolling out the trump playbook that might be elected on May 3rd, but is a healthy democracy with very little gun crime and the benefit of being isolated from the rest of the world. However they are reliant on US for defence and an increasingly emboldened China could make waves in the medium term.
I’m not too worried about personal impact as I am white, male, and financially secure. What I am scared about is the Trump’s administration’s ability to handle a major disaster, like bird flu or war on US soil. That’s something privilege or skin color can’t defend against, and two risks Australia does not have.
If I’m being honest, I think we are in the early grieving period and will likely end up relocating in the next 6-18 months, but don’t want to admit it yet. The kid and also our cat (6 month, $$ process to relocate a pet there) make it seem very difficult. If we’re still here in Nov 2026 the outcome of the midterms could be the final deciding factor.
Good luck and happy to answer any questions!
Chill-NightOwl@reddit
I think you should go. Living in another country will give you an informed perspective that staying to "fight" cannot. It will enhance your entire life. You should do it regardless for yourself, for your own betterment. You will never regret it and I'm confident that he will see the benefit once he has adjusted to the idea.
FineYogurtcloset7157@reddit
| Almost at the point where I'm just going to go no matter what
This part: you need to work on.
Make sure your escape desire isn't because things aren't working well between the two of you.
Saul-Funyun@reddit
LEAVE.
Unless he’s actively protesting weekly (daily) and community organizing candidates to challenge the establishment, he’s doing less than nothing. We are raindrops in the ocean here. Save yourselves
RocasThePenguin@reddit
I'd be gone tomorrow if I got a job offer in Australia.
New-Importance-6819@reddit
Take the opportunity. If you want to come back to America, it will still possibly be there, if not you have somewhere else to go.
Dreamer_Dram@reddit
I’m having that debate internally! I want to flee but I feel like the people who were SOL before are now even more fucked, and if we don’t fight for them who will?
Significant-Trash632@reddit
You can continue to be a citizen of the US and vote but live in another country (depending on the country).
CraigInCambodia@reddit
As an expat for the past 20 years, I can say it's been mostly positive in my experience. It's a great big world out there with lots of opportunities. Every place will have things you like or dislike. Depends on when the things you dislike become unbearable.
Academic_Object8683@reddit
Leave him here
sneeky_seer@reddit
Getting a visa to Australia of all places is an amazing opportunity. Its also not a final thing. It’s temporary. You should go. You might have to return to the US later and Australia has its own problems but it will be a change of scenery, a chance to see Australia and travel in that part of the world if you can afford it. It’s much easier to visit NZ from Aus than from the US… Asia is easier to visit too.
carnivorousdrew@reddit
I bet you want to go to some charming EU country with bike lanes and okd buldings without even knowing whether their elected officials are as bad as or even worse than Trump. Like most Americans wanting to leave because of being too emotional. Like the American guy that was upset he could not get an asylum visa as if he was escaping a war zone. If your only reason for wanting to move is Trump and/or instagram influencers, then I'd listen to your partner and go touch grass. All Americans I've met that moved to Europe because someone they did not like was elected never end up having a good time. Because, guess what, all countries have bigots, racists and problems, and many countries have way more per capita than the US, and choosing based on this rather than based or your long term objectives and priorities is poor decision making and being immature.
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
I would use the angle that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and that the family needs to take it. Worst case scenario, you can become an Australian citizen, come back to America, and always have the option to go back for economic or retirement opportunities. More citizenships is always a positive.
The situation with the partner can be frustrating. What's the length of the relationship? Married? Children? Pets? These are all important factors in your decision-making. Ideally, the partner can come with you. He can still fight, from a safe distance.
I hope you make the correct decision for your circumstances. Staying or leaving are both valid options.
2505essex@reddit
r/AmerExit please
Rsantana02@reddit
Do you have a viable path out or are you two getting ahead of yourselves?
YouKnown999@reddit
Have a plan and stick to it. Make a list of red lines that if any are crossed, you’re out. Things that you feel mean the system of democracy has collapsed.
But more importantly is actually having somewhere concrete to go. Understanding the process. Having citizenship is a big help. Being familiar with the other country or the culture is another that can make the move less stressful. Speaking the language.
Ultimately there is no right or wrong choice, depending on what you value most. There are pros and cons to staying and to leaving.
No-Werewolf541@reddit
Making a life decision on politics is a poor choice.
There’s pros and cons of everywhere you go. If you can’t find happiness where you are you are not going to find it elsewhere.
Glass_Confusion448@reddit
r/IWantOut