Does anyone here own an AED?
Posted by Direct-Spread-8878@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 177 comments
I feel like this is extreme prepping, but my husband has insanely high blood pressure, and so does my frequently visiting dad. Is it worth it? I think it is, but I also live rurally.
I know CPR/BLS…
chococheese419@reddit
I live in a compound with about 15 other women and we have 2 AEDs. If you can afford it, get it.
While tbh, out of hospital CPR is rarely successful, you might as well try
GoBackToTheBay-Go@reddit
If you can afford one yes. Be aware pads and batteries expire so keep that in mind. High blood pressure should be managed too.
cyricmccallen@reddit
Hi, I’m a medical professional that works in acute care. It wouldn’t hurt, but statistically probably won’t help your chances much. Cardiac arrest is the outcome of a disease process. You don’t just go into arrest for no reason- so you have to treat the cause. It would be more productive to address his blood pressure rather than worry about an AED, but if you have the money and it would make you feel better it certainly wouldn’t hurt.
Alternative-Way-9123@reddit
I’ve looked in to getting one. Reality is CPR alone is rarely going to “revive” someone. The whole point is to maintain oxygen supply and (hopefully) get a shockable rhythm. I say it’s a good prep especially for someone with a cardiac medical condition.
However- high BP is a bigger concern for stroke than heart attack, and unfortunately there’s not much you can do aside from getting them to a hospital asap.
jellyfishbrain@reddit
CPR and defibulation aren't really effective in a vacuum. They do a great job at keeping someone alive untill other measures can actually fix them but they are really only effective at stabilization. They do save lives but mostly they buy time for other measures to actually do the life saving.
adoradear@reddit
Actually, CPR and defibrillation are the only 2 proven lifesaving interventions in ACLS. If a patient is in pVT or VF, quick defib can literally save their life. And immediate high quality CPR can maintain perfusion until either defib (if VT/VF) or causation reversed (PEA/asystole). Now, once shocked, they’ll still need investigation into why they arrested in the first place, but they’re now alive when before they were dead. So that’s not nothing. And if the reason they arrested is due to old scar tissue, then literally nothing else to do acutely, and the defib did all the work (of course, they should have an ICD implanted to avoid future episodes).
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
“Actually CPR and defibrillation are the only 2 proven life saving interventions in ACLS”
No…this is getting into the weeds and it’s only lightly mentioned in the course but rather the ACLS book. So I get why you would say this. When you go into reversible causes of cardiac arrest you have H&Ts. So Toxins: opiate over dose use Narcan, Hypoglycemia: Glucose, Hypovolemia : Fluids. Tension Pneumothorax: Chest Tube.
The reason why I bring this up is opiate toxicity can be reversed with a OTC drug. Hypoglycemia can be treated with sugar. These require no medical license to give someone. They require a basic first aid class.
adoradear@reddit
I’m an emergency doctor. Hypoglycemia almost never is the cause of PEA arrest. Yes it’s in the algorithm, but it’s 1) very rare and 2) if it’s what’s caused your arrest, your brain is already corked. And wrt narcan, if you’re in arrest from use, narcan ain’t bringing you back. Good quality CPR with good quality ventilation might. But again, your brain is probably severely damaged from the hypoxia. And chest tubes etc are just as outside of the scope of ACLS as a perimortem C/S is. ACLS is to “consider reversible causes” but you leave the algorithm when you start managing them.
Sadrith_Mora@reddit
Tamponade!
Responsible_Cancel_5@reddit
Any good EMT/Medic will work down the list of possible causes while they work. Ive recognized an OD a couple times. All of the patients I've worked who were hypoglycemic were either "comatose" or had severe AMS. A high majority of the cardiac arrests I've worked were widowmakers/STEMI.
Rogerdodger1946@reddit
My wife had cardiac arrest in a local big box store. An off-duty nurse saw her go down and started CPR within a minute. An AED was available, but the emergency squad got there in 7 minutes and used their big defibrillator a couple of times. I was not there and didn't know anything happened until I got a call from the ER saying that she was there, but would not tell me what happened, but that I should get there quickly. Myself, I was in recovery from bypass surgery, but had been cleared to drive so I got there to be met at the door by our daughter-in-law who happened to be the director of the Emergency Department that day. Against COVID rules, she escorted me back to the treatment room where my wife was so I could see her. I was able to give the cardiologist on duty a quick version of her cardiac history and who her usual cardiologist was. 10 days later, she was wheeled out to come home. She now has a pacemaker with a defibrillator and a stent in the artery that triggered the arrest. She is incredibly lucky. I later talked to one of the emergency responders from that day and he was amazed. The cardiac arrest calls almost never end well.
adoradear@reddit
Depends on how much of your community knows BLS/CPR. Seattle is an excellent example of community training working, with (I’m pulling the #s from memory so I might be a bit off) a roughly 25% survival rate for OHCA vs around 11% in places less prepared (again, numbers from memory, might be off). But yes, in general it doesn’t work like it does on TV where you pound the chest for a second, zap someone, and they open their eyes and are back to normal. Glad to hear your wife survived - the wins keep us going ❤️
annoyedatwork@reddit
Not entirely true. An AED can correct dysrhythmias like pulseless ventricular tachycardia or (pulseless) ventricular fibrillation.
Vtach and vfib are problems with the conduction system of the heart. If done timely, a ‘reset’ of the electrical system can be successful and buy time til advanced cardiac care is available.
If the heart stops due to coronary artery occlusion (the heart’s a muscle, it needs blood vessels just like your arm and leg muscles), an AED isn’t gonna do near as much as good CPR.
tl;dr - take CPR classes. And go back for renewed practice as often as you can.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
I agree. My husband is working on his health now, having began an exercise routine and gave up alcohol all together.
I just think they would be handy, even to let the neighbors know we have one. Medical assistance won’t arrive to our property for 20 minutes :/
polak187@reddit
CPR combined with defibrillation save lives. For every minute of no CPR you loose about 10% chances of survival (that’s what they teach us in medic school). AED will shock two very specific rhythms which usually are caused by cardiac issues (blockage/damage) or in blunt trauma to the chest in younger population. AEDs are great as a first responder tool but they don’t treat the cause of the cardiac arrest. If your goal is to provide best possible care until ambulance arrive I say go for it. If you are thinking about SHTF scenarios where no post arrest medical care will be available than it’s a bit of a waste. If you get one please take proper training. Also learn to recognize the signs of a heart attach and have ASA (chewable 81mg pills x 4) and possibly nitro on hand.
icthruu74@reddit
I was taught the 10-10 rule.
10% of arrests can be returned to a perfusing rhythm through appropriate defibrillation and medications.
10% of those will survive to hospital discharge.
I think it’s better now than 20 years ago (especially in cities that have put a focus on cardiac arrest response) but still the odds are against it.
Alternative-Way-9123@reddit
I actually didn’t know it was that low! But I’ll take 10% over 0% any day.
polak187@reddit
Working in the field for 23 years I have more pre hospital cardiac arrests saves than I can count. Having said that I can count the saves that walked out of the hospital. In the end human body functions because of right combination of elements. Some cases are clear cut and you are able to correct the problem and restore the balance needed. But just because the heart is restarted it doesn’t mean that the rest of the systems will follow. Down time of the person prior to start of resuscitation , preexisting medical conditions and cause of the cardiac arrest play huge role in the chain of survival. Real resuscitation is not like in the movies. There is no rouge doctor beating on the chest of a patient yelling “nobody dies on my watch” pulling out experimental secret drug out of his lab coat pocket and two seconds later patient is awake and breathing. CPR is a violent act that that assaults pt body and when you add defibrillation, intubation, etc you really doing some damage hoping that if saved body will be able to heal itself. We keep trying but modern medicine is stumped and really haven’t improved much when it comes to this. And if you been doing it for a while you realize that we just keep going in circles. New changes are just old things/procedures we keep recycling and introducing as new.
flortny@reddit
Proper training on the new ones is just follow the voice prompts, attach electrodes, don't touch
polak187@reddit
Oh yes they are idiot proof but to increase the chance of survival there are proper ways of incorporating AED into the cycle as well as precautions. Also the first time you apply the device or perform CPR shouldn’t be on your loved one. Proper training which I believe is 8 hr aha bcls class could be priceless and valuable as it also covers a lot of other things that can come in handy.
flortny@reddit
Plus they are always changing shit, no more rescue breaths. But i imagine a bag might help with AED
Reasonable-Pace-4603@reddit
What I've learned in my last cpr course: rescue breaths were taken out (except in cases of drowning) because of the risk it represents to the rescue staff (biological risk) and the lower benefits when compared to chest compressions - ie: you need to stop chest compressions for precious seconds in order to perform a rescue breath.
NopeRope13@reddit
Can confirm. As a medic I have maybe had 5-6 cardiac arrests where the rhythm was shockable.
Gold-Foot-8317@reddit
Hey OP, do you mind if I DM you and ask you a few questions.
o0-o0-@reddit
I hope they're also on the appropriate meds. You can always wean off meds if lifestyle changes eventually result in not needing them.
They'll buy you time to make those changes, without dying or suffering irreparable harm first.
jwsconsult@reddit
This. and FWIW, Jase daily has my blood pressure meds available. Might be worth checking on that, particularly as whole reason I'm on this med is because of supply chain issues with what I was taking before. Having a backup is not a bad idea even if world doesn't end.
flortny@reddit
Taking two hits off a joint actually does more to stop a stroke than the medicine they won't give you until you get to ER that still takes 20-60min to stop the stroke.
Alternative-Way-9123@reddit
I’m not certain of the science behind this… The biggest concern I would be the type of stroke. Even in the hospital if you’re having a hemorrhagic stroke (which is very common if your stroke is caused by high BP) and they give you the “stroke medication” you’ll die. It’s a blood thinner.
Likewise if that’s a blood thinner as well (like alcohol) you’ll likely make things much much worse.
flortny@reddit
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6713285/
SeriousGoofball@reddit
Smoking a joint dissolves blood clots or plaque occlusions in the arterial system of the brain? Please tell me more about this groundbreaking research.
Maybe while you pull it up I can share the numerous studies that show chronic cannabis use increases the risk for stroke significantly.
Pbandsadness@reddit
What is even the point of CPR when the rate of survival to hospital discharge is so low?
SeriousGoofball@reddit
The survival to hospital discharge for people in cardiac arrest who don't get CPR is zero percent.
The survival to hospital discharge for people in cardiac arrest who do get CPR is > zero percent.
Some survival beats no survival.
_craigsmith@reddit
Do not think that an AED is going to be more useful that good CPR. CPR is exactly what does revive a person. If the blood is not flowing your organs are dying. CPR literally keeps your blood flowing and exchange the oxygen left in the blood.
An AED is nice, but if you’re in a situation CPR first and yell for someone else to grab the AED. An AED is only going to help an arrest if it is a shockable rhythm. And whether or not it is a shockable rhythm, CPR is necessary.
The only reason why the medication we push through an IV work during an arrest is because of CPR.
Basically, yea get one if you would feel more assured, but do not delay CPR.
Unicorn187@reddit
This isn't true. With the shockable rhythms, an AED is going to do more for survival than CPR alone. I'm not saying and AED alone, but in combination with CPR. There will be a large increase in survivablity if you have an AED compared to just CPR.
If not those shockable rhythms, then yes CPR is better.
Responsible_Cancel_5@reddit
I csn count on one hand where I've had a shockble rhythm.
Unicorn187@reddit
I wasn't clear when I made that reply and I do know what he means. What I should have said was for those two shockable rhythms, and AED is more useful than just CPR. For everything else CPR is the gold standard... and is the only thing that can be done.
MSeager@reddit
Getting ROSC from CPR alone is extremely rare, and is normally associated with a problem other than the heart, i.e. the heart itself is fine, something else has caused the cardiac arrest.
_craigsmith@reddit
Yea and that’s post ROSC care. Doesn’t matter what the underlying problem is when the heart is not beating. Need to get the heart back and then fix the issue
Alternative-Way-9123@reddit
Notice I said “CPR alone”. Nobody said CPR isn’t necessary if you have an AED.
D15c0untMD@reddit
An AED isnt likely going to revive someone either. Unless the patient is seen quickly by a number of specialists with equipment they will most likely arrest again
Unicorn187@reddit
Also AAA... something very terrible.
BlacksmithThink9494@reddit
Exactly. The whole idea behind cpr is to keep things "moving" while rescue is on the way to prevent other damage.
Guilty_Rip6956@reddit
To answer your question, yes I have one in my vehicle. Check the batteries or replace them yearly. Need to buy some replacement pads as those are probably at the end of their life. The pads have a date on them, but I'm sure they last a little longer than the printed date. Why have an AED? I got it because my BIL has a heart condition that worried me enough to get one. I take CPR/AED, stop the bleed and life-saving skills course yearly, just as a refresher. On a side note, my 12 yr old kid cut his hand pretty bad yesterday while using a knife like a screwdriver (learning lessons the hard way). Thankful for VetBond skin glue (same ingredients as hospitals use, but made for animals cause the actual hospital ones cost hundreds to get), and butterfly bandages. I have a suture and staple kit, but the cut was clean enough and held tight enough that I didn't think going through additional trauma of stitches/staples was needed. Remember with a deep knife cut, unless it's gushing like a hose, let it bleed for a couple seconds to help push out any bacteria the knife had on it. We were on the road about about an hour from home, so didn't have soap. Took a clean knife and just made a small slit in a water bottle lid without opening it to get a good slit for squirting water. Washed the cut out, then applied pressure for 10 mins, stopped bleeding. (I have quick clot, but again didn't want to introduce something to the cut when it was clean and with pressure the bleeding stopped) Applied glue and bandages, wrapped it up overnight. This morning it looks like someone made a line on the meat of his hand with a dark red sharpie. Not swollen or puffy, edges are not raised but aligned, skin around cut is normal color. Get an AED if you can afford it, and are willing to face any repercussions when trying to save someone's life. Doctors are backed by the insurance companies at the hospitals they work at, I am not. EMTs do this work daily and have the muscle memory, I do not. BUT, I'd rather attempt to save a life than spend the rest of my life wondering if I could have.
AdjacentPrepper@reddit
I have access to one at work and at church, but not at home. If you've got family with heart issues it might make sense, but be aware the pads and battery in the AED need to be replaced annually, and usually you need two sets of pads (adult and child).
A few months ago, my dad died of a heart attack. I'm never going to forget being on the phone with my mother, while the paramedics were working, and hearing the AED voice prompts in the background as they tried (unsuccessfully) to get him back while my mother was (understandably) freaking out.
Gold-Foot-8317@reddit
Get one OP. This isn’t extreme prepping… at all. Cardiovascular disease is the largest killer world wide a AED is more practical than firearms, ammo, food, trauma kits, etc etc which is not considered extreme prepping.
AceInTheX@reddit
Aedmarket.com has some refurbished and recertified AEDs for pretty good prices...
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Thank you!!
AceInTheX@reddit
My pleasure. As an EMT and prepper it took a while to find a site like that but i knew i wanted an AED. Now i got to work on getting my paramedic license and skills... also, check out Jase Case and Duration Heatlh for off grid antibiotics prep.
MarsMonkey88@reddit
Yes, we have for years. We’re an hour from the nearest emergency dispatch station or hospital.
Ztunyknum@reddit
I'm a mall security guard. We have one, but the director says that we can't use it and that we need to call 911 if somebody has a heart attack. So I'm gonna look into it.
SeriousGoofball@reddit
You only use an AED when someone has lost their pulse. When someone loses their pulse, sometimes their heart can be shocked, and they will get a good heartbeat back.
I'm an ER doctor. Even in the ER, with highly trained people, a giant stack of medications, and advanced monitoring equipment, it can be difficult to keep their heart beating properly after we get a pulse back.
If a person's heart isn't beating, there is no blood flow going to their brain or other organs. Even brief interruptions can cause people to be unconscious for hours or days. They may stop breathing on their own. They may not be able to keep their blood pressure at a safe level without IV medications.
If people plan on getting an AED for a SHTF prepping situation, they need to be prepared for the follow-up problems if it is used successfully. In a non SHTF situation, you will call EMS and they will make sure all that happens.
In your situation, you could get one. They are very expensive. It would only be used if your husband became pulseless and you could respond in a matter of seconds to a few minutes. It will only work if he has a specific, shockable, heart rhythm.
That's a lot of money for a very narrow specific use case.
Pbandsadness@reddit
How can they have a shockable rhythm and have no pulse?
SeriousGoofball@reddit
When we monitor the heart with an EKG or bedside monitor, that's the rhythm. Even if they have no electrical activity and the line is perfectly flat, that's still considered a rhythm. In this case, asystole.
In some cases the heart has disorganized electrical activity. It's trying to beat but the impulses are all jumbled up. Usually ventricular fibrillation. This is a shockable rhythm. We are trying to reset the electrical activity so it's organized.
Pbandsadness@reddit
Oh ok. Thx for the explanation.
ATGonnaLive4Ever@reddit
This is my vote. It's not that it wouldn't be good to have if money was no object, but the cost to value ratio is terrible. It makes sense to have one in a public place where you are essentially providing it for scores or even hundreds of people, but for a few people there has to be way more effective uses for that kind of money.
TalpaMoleman@reddit
I think a better prep would be to lower that blood pressure.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Obviously 🙄 But that doesn’t happen overnight friend
James_Fortis@reddit
Does he eat animal products or ultra-processed foods? Does he exercise? There’s no point in prepping if he will be dead before he can benefit from it.
Frog491@reddit
Animal products don't cause high blood pressure, it's the ultra processed food and high sugar/carb diets. Cut that crap out and blood pressure will drop relatively quickly along with the high blood sugars he will also have
James_Fortis@reddit
Foods like ruminant red meat that are very high in trans and saturated fat cause plaques in our arterial walls, increasing blood pressure.
Frog491@reddit
Red meat isn't high in trans fats https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000786.htm
Saturated fat isn't bad for you https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9794145/
Arterial plaques aren't caused by high cholesterol, it's an inflammatory disease and the 'plaques' are the patches over the damage.
James_Fortis@reddit
Ruminant red meat is: https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/food-details/168715/nutrients
It is scientific consensus that saturated fat increases LDL cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol increases our risk for cardiovascular disease diseases. It is insufficient to look at a single study and try and draw a causal conclusion from it since there are millions of studies in the peer review literature. instead Take a look at the major nutritional bodies, such as the who the Academy of nutrition and dietetics and many others that explain this point, since they have hundreds of thousands of experts that review the preponderance of evidence and draw high confidence conclusions. This is good science.
Jolly_Following_6295@reddit
Try looking at the nutritional profile of grass fed beef. It’s as high in omega 3 as fish
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Bro, we have a toddler and dogs and family. In what world would a Prepper tell someone not to prep if their husband hypothetically dies. I’m a female Prepper, a mom, a pilot, a search and rescue volunteer, and I go to the gun range every week solo, since you made such a stupid comment. Maybe that will surprise you.
James_Fortis@reddit
I’m talking about HIS specific prepping. As others have stated, he needs to take care of his major chronic disease (hypertension) before he dies.
Don’t be so obtuse and go help your husband literally not die. You seem to be hard-headed so I doubt you will. Peace.
BaldyCarrotTop@reddit
Don't I know that. But it can, and should, be done. The risks are stroke, kidney damage and an enlarged heart. Why would anyone want to be walking around with those "time bombs".
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Considering he just found out, he has made drastic changes already! I’m proud of him.
BaldyCarrotTop@reddit
Awesome! Keep up encouragement and support. It can be a tough journey, but one worth taking. I know, I've been there.
UnfinishedThings@reddit
With the right medication it doesnt take that long. I was 222/123. Got put on Ramipril, Amlodipine and a bunch of statins and within about two months, I was aboit 140/80.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Wow that’s great!
AaronKClark@reddit
If society broke down and your husband didn't have access to blood pressure medicine what would happen? Being physically active and healthy is more important than anything you can buy.
gtzbr478@reddit
And why do you assume the person is not physically active? Many health conditions happen no matter how active you are. Being healthy isn’t based on merit.
WhoNeedsAPotch@reddit
Absolutely get one if you can afford it. Talk about return on investment... if you're far away from EMS it could be the difference between life and death. And if you've got multiple people in your home at high risk for a heart attack it seems like a great idea to have one around
Rollo755@reddit
Me and the wife have had one for 6 years. Need buy new paddles every few years. Never used it and a complete waste of money (until it gets used)
Responsible_Cancel_5@reddit
In the dozens of CPRs I've worked, I've only ever shocked a person once. Good, initial CPR provides the highest chance to gain ROSC. In my opinion, id spend the money on more usable medical equipment, or use that money to get your EMT license.
Intelligent_Will1431@reddit
Had one. Parent was in poor health, and I was worried/trained already in CPR/AED.
NewEnglandPrepper3@reddit
it's a great prep
ImportantImpala9001@reddit
Get them on blood pressure meds ASAP. Have aspirin and beets readily available.
UltraMediumcore@reddit
Beets?
ImportantImpala9001@reddit
Yeah beets tend to lower blood pressure but obviously medication is needed.
CranberrySoftServe@reddit
Apparently beets lower blood pressure! I didn't know until I read that comment as well
UltraMediumcore@reddit
Neat.
Immortal-one@reddit
Maybe he meant “beers?”
Slut_for_Bacon@reddit
Here is what people aren't mentioning.
CPR with an AED is more effective than without an AED, absolutely.
But the survival rates are still fairly low, and that's in first world countries when the patient can access first world medical care promptly.
My point is this. If you're gonna spend a bunch of money on an AED, just understand that if you want to keep the person alive, you're likelu going to need access to much more advanced care, and even then it won't be certain.
I would guess that any sort of SHTF scenario is going to ruin a chance of that happening.
Not saying it's not worth having. Just saying if you're gonna spend all that money on one, you should have a plan in place for what to do after using it, and you need to be mentally ready when your patient still dies despite you using it, even if you temporarily get ROSC.
Dragnet714@reddit
Yes. We've had it for years. We've had to break it out several times in our neighborhood over the years but thank goodness have yet to actually use the ⚡.
melvah2@reddit
No. The chain of survival is what is ideal and you likely don't have the post resus care needed. Even with a defib and an experienced resus team, odds of successful resus (Return of Spontaneous Circulation) is low, unless caught very early and the cause identified and addressed early. After that, there is a lot of care needed and the 30 day survival is poor. There is very limited benefit to an AED in a prepper scenario because even if you somehow brought them back, you're going to struggle to keep them alive.
Luckygecko1@reddit
I still have a few bag valve masks, but decided the old 1980s Datascope MD-3A manual defibrillator I had was out of maintenance too long and I chunked it when I bought my portable ECG.
I've considered an AED. My PCP is fairly cool about 'just in case' requests since we live 30 min away from medical care, so I'm guessing I'd have no issue getting an Rx for one.
Spiritual_Ad_6064@reddit
An awd is awesome but a simpler step is to become proficient in CPR. actually, take a class, get to know it. even if you have an AED you're still going to need to do compressions at some point in the process.
1one14@reddit
I have one. Used it once, and it worked. They do have a battery that needs annual replacement. But I would get with a functional MD and get this shit figured out. Mine got my wife and I off all our meds except my wife's thyroid meds and helped her to get a multi year supply of that. It was all diet.... Sucked because a lot of my preps became barter food, and I had to start over storing healthy food.
Mindless_Road_2045@reddit
Check with your hsa or fsa if you have one. Sometimes they can be used to pay for an aed.
Phoroptor22@reddit
We travel with ours plus other emergency care. Car accidents, drowning, ready for all sorts of trauma. Also take a few cans of narcan.
NorthernPrepz@reddit
I don’t have one. But on my wish list. I live 7 minutes from an ems station so low prio rn, but good to have long term imo
Personal-Material-53@reddit
It’s like an insurance policy , and if it makes you sleep better at night and you can afford it why not
mellamenpapi@reddit
I would say so, my uncle had a cardiac event playing pickleball and the only reason he is alive is because the local police had just got a grant to install aed devices in all police vehicles.
Deckrat_@reddit
If you live rurally and are at least 20 minutes away from medical help, I would say it's a very reasonable investment for your small community (your household and close neighbors). As long as you know how to use it.
kjfsub@reddit
I have a Philips AED that I added to my kit about 5 years ago because I had money left over in a health spending account but one thing to consider is that you have to replace the battery and the pads in these every 5 years or so and I didn't want to purchase this off of Amazon cuz I was concerned with the qualitiy, I went straight to Phillips and it was about $250 for a new battery and pads.
Also I have oxygen tank and I have a number of those Israeli stop bleed bandages. My logic on all of this is I live in a very rural area with volunteer fire department response and during the day when most of the volunteers are at work it can be well over 30 minutes or more before they could respond to some sort of emergency. So I figure the AED, the oxygen and in case I or my wife cut ourselves bad with a chainsaw the stop bleed bandages would buy me some time .
I was a volunteer EMT about 35 years ago so I do have some knowledge on how all this works. Again it's all about time.
So depending on where you live I think it's a good investment
xoexohexox@reddit
An AED is just to give you a small chance of living until advanced life support arrives with powerful cardiac drugs which itself is only meant to keep you alive until someone cuts into you to solve the problem.
RedIcarus1@reddit
I bought one for my parents. It was about $600.
He had a heart attack about 30 years ago, and a quadruple bypass shortly after. He currently has COPD and both of them are mid seventies. They both smoked heavily since they were teens, but quit after his heart attack.
$600 is worth it.
UltraMediumcore@reddit
Ambulance could be an hour for my area. For heart issues a somewhat abnormal prep is to have a flat, firm area where the air ambulance could land if needed, if your area has those.
AED is only not needed if someone never needs it. It would be worth it in my opinion, but obviously much lower priority than many other things. Are they stubborn men who won't change their lifestyle and medication? That would bump it up the list a little for me.
tinareginamina@reddit
This is actually solid prepping. I would consider keeping it in your vehicle though as you will have it close more than just when you’re at home.
Unicorn187@reddit
Remember that AEDs only work on a couple types of rhythms. If you're wanting one to increase the odds of survival for them while you are waiting for the ambulance, then go for just be realistic about your expectations. They are fantastic life savers, but like everything, not at all what you see on TV. They will tell you if the rhythm is shockable or not. Also CPR needs to be constant unless the AED is in the process of shocking, until a medic or other EMS arrives. Hopefully a medic and not just an EMT, but in some areas all there are will be volunteer EMTs or possibly AEMTs... and I say this as a former EMT because there are a lot of things a paramedic can do I couldn't. Seriously the only things I could do as an EMT are the same as you, CPR and an AED, plus turning on lights and siren and going a little faster and praying for an ALS intercept... meeting a paramedic on the way who can give meds and do a couple other things to increase survival.
Low-Celebration6182@reddit
I have one but it’s internal😝
And will only work for me.
SituationSad4304@reddit
Your husband should be on medication and have a year supply in your go bag
kelce@reddit
No, people don't die for no reason. You have to be able to treat the reason for the death. The likelihood of surviving cardiac arrest is slim even in a hospital environment.
I am an ICU nurse. Seen more codes than I can count. I have 0 interest of having an AED as a prep.
Incendiaryag@reddit
I hear sometimes Costco sells them for under $500. Very much worth it if you have heart concerns in the family and live in a rural location.
Taako_Cross@reddit
An aed is good if the heart is beating out of rhythm. If you’ve got a block it ain’t doing anything.
AgYooperman@reddit
My blood pressure is a lot better after taking ivermectin,once a week or so. People in Africa who take a lot of it found this out by accident.
infiltrating_enemies@reddit
Don't get one if you don't know how to use it, and do all the research you can on heart conditions, blood pressure problems, symptoms, etc. nowadays you can get AEDS that tell you how to use it as you're using it, step by step, we have a few around my rural town, closest one I can think of is 10 minutes up the road by the market. Prioritise lowering the blood pressure, and any other way you can think to get him cardiac healthy though. An AED should be the last resort here
CLUING4LOOKS@reddit
If I were going to look into owning anything it would be an old LP15 (LifePack) services are phasing them out and they can do more than an AED. Requires more training, as an emergency medical provider, it would be my pick.
CLUING4LOOKS@reddit
If I were going to look into owning anything it would be an old LP15 (LifePack) services are phasing them out and they can do more than an AED. Requires more training, as an emergency medical provider, it would be my pick.
jhaukeness@reddit
Depending on your state, you may have to have a prescription to own one. Check your local regulations
backcountry57@reddit
Never thought to look into that..... also wouldn't effect my purchasing decisions
YYCADM21@reddit
In and unto itself, t's never a bad idea to have one. However, if your husband has unchecked high blood pressure, he's far more likely to have a stroke than a heart attack. Living rurally, an AED may restore a normal heartbeat, but you've got nowhere to go or higher care.
BeebleBoxn@reddit
If you get one take an AED class. Your local fire department is the best place to check with about them. They will provide you with an AED certification card and it helps with basic knowledge.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
No… CPR and AEDs are only helpful in a narrow amount of use cases in a disaster. Electrocutions, suffocation (avalanche or mud slide) and near drownings.
Meanwhile for the hundreds or thousands of dollars for an AED you can have a really robust aid bag.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
I happen to already have a very robust medical bag 🥲! Complete with all the medications lol…
I have a toddler and we do have water on the property, so this comment might be the thing that makes me purchase it, because you never know.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
The TL;DR is if you have someone with heart issues now then you should get an AED. But that isn’t for SHTF this is for normal use. Toddlers unless they have a congenital heart defect will be super unlikely to benefit.
Most people under 40 are going to need CPR for the reasons I mentioned. It’s typically not an issue with the heart itself. Those are basically lack of breathing. Just do CPR and rescue breathing.
So for this age group you will want a dechoker, bag valve mask and Naloxone. In total about $125. There is other stuff if you have additional training.
The problem is anyone needing CPR in disaster or MCI will be marked black (dead or expectant) regardless.
So you can’t rely on the healthcare system in a SHTF.
So in the American Heart Association 6 chains of survival you get to at most chain 4 with an AED. Chain 5 is a crash cart with injectable medication a Manual Defibrillator (10x) the cost. 6th chain is post cardiac arrest care AKA a cardiac cath lab and ICU. That is with an intact healthcare mind you.
Firefluffer@reddit
58 year old prepper paramedic here. I have one because I acquired it because it was “free” from a former (stupid) employer who thought I’d was broken because the battery died ($180 dollar fix). Are they useful to have, hell yes. However, treating HBP is friggin easy. Hell, I’ve been on Lisinipril for close to a decade now. It’s cheap and easy.
The thing with high blood pressure is more around heart failure than a lethal arrhythmia. Untreated HBP stretches the heart muscle over time. That leads to shitty quality of life (less ability to adapt to the demands of the body), kidney issues (kidneys are the organ most immediately impacted by by HBP), and poor cardiac conduction. It’s a long term game, not a sudden issue.
Seriously, it’s so easily managed, it makes zero sense to buy an aed when a $10 a month prescription could eliminate the real issue.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
LOL thank you for being so blunt and educational. You certainly scored one! The one I’m looking at to include infant pads is $1300!!!
Thank you so much for the indepth reply, it was very insightful
adoradear@reddit
It’s ridiculously rare to have to shock an infant or small child. The leading cause of arrest in children/infants is hypoxic (ie no oxygenation/ventilation) so best prep there is to learn your BLS - choking maneuvers as well as how to ventilate (and perform CPR) on kids. AED unlikely to be helpful.
As for your adults, good quality CPR is first line. AEDs are pretty useless if you haven’t been perfusing the brain/heart with CPR before shocking. $1K is a lot of money. If you’ve got people who are high risk for heart attack (known coronary artery disease with angina, past history of MI, and so on) then it might make sense, but it’s pretty low bang for your buck, likelihood-wise. Depends on how much $ you have and what else is on your list to prep. Make sure everyone knows the signs of cardiac arrest (look up agonal breathing as an example of how it can be more subtle than you think) and learns how to provide good quality CPR, and that should cover you fairly well (source: EM MD).
HotIntroduction8049@reddit
I am a STEMI survivor. My cardiologist said dont bother getting one for home when asked.
That being said your hubby needs to see a doc asap and get on a program & meds. All the prepping in the world isnt going to fix high BP.
420BlazeIt187@reddit
Am i the only one that read it as IED. I was like wtf are you prepping for! Lol
SirHarryAzcrack@reddit
If you’re going through all of the trouble of getting an AED you will also need epinephrine too.
EisForElbowsmash@reddit
I've had one for my fitness studio in the past. They are expensive and the batteries, which are the most expensive part, have a limited lifespan.
You're looking at a minimum of $1500 for a reputable brand, and it will require a $500-$1000 battery change every 3-5 years. The other thing is they are not designed to be used in a vacuum. Both CPR and the AED are designed to keep someone alive and prevent their brain from being oxygen deprived until EMS arrives. If you're in a situation where EMS isn't arriving, they have something like a 5% chance of actually making a difference.
Honestly in terms of preps, a much better use of that money is to get your husband and father a gym membership, personal trainer and dietician to get them in as good a shape as possible to mitigate the blood pressure issues.
nunyabizz62@reddit
Probably should get him on a vegan diet and drink beet juice and take 4000mg of Omega 3s daily along with high dose Nattokinase to prevent blood clots strokes.
Arconomach@reddit
TLDR: most people (90ish % [per American heart association]) don’t survive a cardiac arrest, even if transported to the hospital. Shocking and getting a pulse back doesn’t fix the thing that caused the cardiac arrest in the first place.
I’m a paramedic with a bit over 20 years of experience. I honestly think an AED isn’t a good cost for the benefit of it.
You need to keep it charged, keep it and the pads (at least 2 sets) in date. It’s extra weight and bulk. The rope an AED fills is for bystanders to help increase the chances of a better outcome by the patient leaving the hospital.
The info I have is from 2021, the chances of living life by enough to get discharged home from the hospital, post arrest (CPR) is 9.1%.
I’m having a hard time finding information about what percentage of that percentage of survivors discharged without permanent brain and or physical damage.
With a very few exceptions, the defibrillation (shocking) of patients doesn’t fix the thing that caused the cardiac arrest. So you still have a very dangerous and significant underlying problem that if anything, has worsened due to the cardiac arrest.
enolaholmes23@reddit
Yes I have one. I think it was about $1000. Never needed it so far luckily. My dad has a history of heart problems, and I'd rather have it than not. I know it's only less than 1% chance it will help, odds are greater he either won't go into arrest or will be so far gone it won't help. But it's worth it to me just in case it does help.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Awe that’s really cool. I mean realistically that’s better than no chance, for me. A lot of peppers prep for Tuesday, or even doomsday, so I guess it’s just up to me to weigh the costs. I just was curious how many other peppers would own one? It seems like something I think more people might have than I would have imagined.
enolaholmes23@reddit
I also make a habit of scanning public places when we enter them so I know where the aeds are. Like how you check the exits in a movie theater.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
I actually do this 🥰
KozmicLight@reddit
If someone needs and AED, they need a hospital. I don’t know how helpful it would be because it’s only a link in a chain of survival
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
EMS is 20 mins out…
slinger301@reddit
For this fact, I can see usefulness, as long as the price isn't burdensome. Shaving 15 minutes off of time to defib can be beneficial; as long as the ambulance is on its way.
A point to remember is that the pads (and sometimes batteries) do expire after a few years, so there is an upkeep cost to it.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Great tip to consider! Thank you!
mjmed@reddit
Almost everyone who needs an AED needs intubated, put in a ventilator, and an ICU next. Without those things available, your opportunity cost compared to obtaining other things is probably prohibitive.
DeFiClark@reddit
Ok so if the cardiac arrest is due to fibrillation and the patient gets zapped within three minutes after collapse and gets advanced cardiac care rapidly thereafter survival rates are dramatically increased.
Early AED, early CPR and early advanced care are the key. Chain of care is critical.
But if by rural you’ve mean you’ve got got ALS cardiac care more than a few minutes away, the odds are not going to be dramatically increased by an AED.
TraditionalBasis4518@reddit
Some first responder items only make sense in the context of an intact health care system that provides prompt extraction and transportation to an equipped and staffed secondary or tertiary care facility. AED, chest seal dressings and tourniquets fall into this category. Definitive treatment of cardiac arrest, pneumo-hemothorax or serious vascular injury require intervention after the golden hour to be life saving care rather than prolongation of death. If you are going to spend resources on medical technology, think about equipping your group to provide intravenous fluid therapy or ether anesthesia surgery. Either of these, or both, would have greater utility than an AED.
TraditionalBasis4518@reddit
And both ether anesthesia and home cooked saline with reusable tubing and needles are currently in use in third world countries.
nmanus@reddit
Also get 1-2 year supply of BP meds.
BlacksmithThink9494@reddit
If you have training and cert then absolutely. You could save someone's life before the need for prepping.
MrHmuriy@reddit
If there is still an emergency medical services nearby, they have this device, as well as many others. If healthcare in the neighborhood has ceased to exist, the AED itself will not be very useful
backcountry_knitter@reddit
We have one because it’s 35 minutes for an ambulance to arrive at our home and one member of our household plus three family members who regularly visit have heart conditions. In some cases we may get a first responder sooner, depending on availability, etc. but it’s not a guarantee. We only plan to cover the gap if possible/necessary.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
I'm an emt and grabbed an expired one (with a new battery) from my old ambulance unit for free, I keep it at home. CPR only works if you're within \~2 hours of higher level care, you just can't manually push the blood around enough to simulate what a heart can do. An AED however really can take care of some forms (VF/VT) of heart attack.
I don't know why you wouldn't have one with you if you have older folks about (more likely to suffer a heart attack), if you have the money for it.
As others have said though, staying on top of your blood pressure and cholesterol (and all chronic health conditions) is way better than managing an emergency.
AlternativeDue1958@reddit
I have one on my boat but have never used it.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Oooo I bet that was spendy for the waterproof casing lol
AlternativeDue1958@reddit
I just have it in the cabin under the banquet bench. I think it’s a nice thing to have in case someone nearby lets off a mayday about a heart attack. Good to be prepared!
beeskeepusalive@reddit
Based on the cost...they're a lot cheaper than a funeral. I've always viewed them as "insurance"....just never know. If you get one, I'd also let me neighbors know in case someone around needs one.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
100%! I’ve spent a lot of money and time on our preps, so I’m leaning towards biting the bullet.
jaycienicolee@reddit
I've thought about it myself, but they're pricey. and an AED won't help with something like a stroke.
my husband also has high BP, he's on 2 medications now that have it controlled and trying to lose some weight.
some of high BP factors can't be changed (genetics, age, chronic conditions that impact BP) but you can change diet, weight, add medications to help.
my husband has mentioned a website (of course I don't remember what it's called) where you can get year supply medications of your existing prescriptions so he is looking into that for prepping. however like other posters have said its worth it to get that BP under control so you have a way less risk of stroke.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the reply! My husband actually is a doctor, lol, a medical doctor. It’s a combination of genetics and poor exercise, so we’re working on that aspect. Ha. I didn’t even realize strokes were the main risk of high blood pressure 😅
jaycienicolee@reddit
oh perfect! haha I'm a nurse so sometimes I gotta throw my two cents medical knowledge out there. i definitely do want to have an AED at home but I can't get myself to spend the money right now. I've seen a lot of websites that run discounts though so maybe just keep an eye out if you have it on your to- buy list 😉 you just never know when someone will have a sudden cardiac event and it would be so good to have!
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Thank you so much! This comment is so valuable!!!
makesh1tup@reddit
We do. We lived in a very rural area until recently. I just did my AED check for batteries last month. I was thinking to donate it, but now I’m not sure if I should.
RichardBonham@reddit
What scenario are you prepping for?
The Philips AED is $1,200 and replacement batteries are a little over $200. The AED is designed to do one thing, and one thing only: recognize and definitively treat a cardiac arrest caused by a shockable arrhythmia. It also is intended to be used by civilian bystanders so no experience or training is necessary.
Thing is, only 15% of heart attacks present as cardiac arrest in which the blood vessel supplying blood to areas in the heart that are crucial to maintaining heartbeat results in the person rapidly becoming unconscious, unresponsive and not breathing. If this is being caused by an arrhythmia that can be treated by defibrillation this is where an AED at home is useful. Mind, that person still needs to be seen in an ED ASAP, by ambulance if at all possible even if they "come to".
The home AED is not useful for arrhythmias that can't be treated by defibrillation (there are quite a few), heart attack without arrest, or stroke. Depending on your husband and your dad's age, stroke may be a bigger threat. 85% of strokes are not immediately fatal and need to be seen in an ED ASAP to consider "clot busters" to mitigate the brain injury.
Using inexpensive effective prescription medicines to get their blood pressure under control would be a better solution.
Any prep scenario in which medications are unavailable for prolonged periods of time is going to make having an AED around pointless since emergency medical attention is also likely to be unavailable or inaccessible.
No prep scenario is improved by having a spouse or parent become partially paralyzed, unable to comprehend speech, unable to use the bathroom or eat for themselves or unable to walk across a room without becoming short of breath for want of a $4/month pill.
graywoman7@reddit
I don’t but I have a close family member that has one. Something to know is that they have an expiration date. They generally last ten years before needing to be either refurbished or replaced (often a new battery is not available because the model styles have changed). You also have to have it tested and possibly serviced yearly. I still think it’s a good idea but it’s not a ‘set it and forget it’ sort of a prep.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Good tip! Thank you
UnfinishedThings@reddit
As someone who was diagnosed with insanely high BP (222/123) my first thing was getting medication to being that down to reasonable levels again. That has to be the priority
I dont own an AED but I do know (and the rest of my family know) where thr closest available on is.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Wow that’s scary! I’m so glad you got that down! That’s great that you have a family plan in place with where an AED is located.
jellyfishbrain@reddit
the thing about an AED is it's really only effective when followed by an O.R. If you are hoping to use it in isolation the number of times it's gonna be effective is probably less then one in a thousand. However if you are far from definitive care or expect it to take a while for EMS to get to you then it could be effective. Basically what I'm saying is unless your planning on using it for early defibulatuon following by rapid transport to a Hospital id avoid it. It's not gonna do much for you husband if you restart his heart but can get epi/other cardiac drugs on board pretty rapidly.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Actually this would be the exact scenario. We’re 20mins out from medical care arrival, and I’ve also got a toddler… so I think it’s probably worth it for our family. Thank you so much for your insight!!
This-Satisfaction-71@reddit
Yes, I bought one. We live further out of town than I want to do CPR while waiting for emergency personnel to arrive. If you can afford it, go for it. Just make sure you are up to date on your BLS. Also, everyone else in the household. What if you are the one that goes down and you are the only one with training?
The batteries expire, so if you buy one used, make sure the batteries have a lot of time left. Same with the pads. You should turn it on and check on it at least annually.
GunnCelt@reddit
I’m a volunteer first responder and firefighter in a very small, rural town. We run an AED on all medical calls. The only thing they will shock is V-fib and V-tach. As others have stated, this is no good for high blood pressure. They are expensive to purchase and pretty niche, imo.
plausocks@reddit
wish i had the money for one lol
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
They are incredibly expensive
11systems11@reddit
If you can afford it and learn how to use it properly, I say go for it! I've heard they need to be serviced or replaced every few years, but I'm not positive on that.
raiznhel1@reddit
The batteries last about 5-8 years and the pads need replacing every 3. Apart from that they can be left alone. The cost is coming down (in Australia)
However if someone needs one, they also need immediate high level medical care, they aren’t just going to pop back up and go back to normal, so still call the ambo’s.
11systems11@reddit
Maybe it was the pads I was thinking of, thanks!
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
I’ve practiced using them several times over the years. I did see something while looking at them online in the print mentioning 8year warranty and so on for different models.
funklab@reddit
AEDs are pretty easy to use. By design.
Most have audible instructions and pictures that an illiterate person who has no idea what the machine does could probably follow without much difficulty.
Maybe watch a video demonstrating exactly what your model looks like when you crack it open so you’re not surprised, but that should be all the training you need. It’s pretty dead easy to use on an adult.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
I am what many others would consider "Next Level Prepping". Yes, I have one at my "Bug Out Location", Hunting Cabin, with a ton of other medical supplies. Keep in mind that my Prepping Group includes a Medical Doctor, Registered Nurse and a former Army Medic. You obviously don't need to be any of those to use an AED.
They are expensive and not something the average person would have and not a high priority for most.
If your Husband and/or Father have a history of Heart Attacks or have been told they need to watch out for one, that would move it up as a priority in my mind. Otherwise, I would spend the money on things like additional stock of Blood Pressure Medication if they take any.
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Thanks for your insight!
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Happy to help.
MerelyMortalModeling@reddit
AED is kinda extreme and tbh they don't have the greatest success rate for what they get used for. Loke CPR they are more about giving you a chance of survival.
If anything I'd focus on getting cardiac issues under control, daily walks healthy eating low sodium etc
mediocre_remnants@reddit
Your husband's doctor would be the right person to ask about this. I don't know that high blood pressure alone is a big enough risk factor for cardiac arrest to warrant an AED at home.
Also, it's better to control high blood pressure through diet, exercise, and medication instead of just waiting for his heart to stop beating and hoping a machine revives him.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Nothing extreme about it. That's why most workplaces require at least one on site (dependent on office space size, employee numbers, etc).
Worth having if heart attacks are a likely issue. Just make sure to have them checked annually (IIRC, you may be able to bring them to your local EMS station for this, but check what models they recommend first to ensure they can).
Direct-Spread-8878@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the helpful tip
botella36@reddit
I do not, but in my place of work, not health related, there is one next to every elevator, and the company does train us periodically on how to use them.