Would have been nice to have a line or two thrown in there:
Sisko: “I’m sorry to hear none of your friends from the Enterprise couldn’t be here for the wedding.”
Worf: “To be absent for familial rituals during war is a sacrifice all warriors must face. Although I will regret not having my friends at my wedding, they honor me by continuing to fight and defend their homes.”
You sure? That episode was like in season 4 or 5, right? You sure you aren't thinking of the episode where Barkley was trying work his mojo magic on the communications array thing, in season 6-7? I never tried to remember the stardate stuff, but I do remember Diana counciling Barkley several times, on the Voyager show, when she was supposed to be stationed on Enterprise. Star Trek really does make it look like there's a councilor shortage.
I bow to your knowledge. They weren't in the war at the times, but I still consider it weird that Diana went out of her way for Barkley, but not for Worf, she was the Klingon word for Guardian of his son, and they had deep connection for each other. I will always say it was in bad taste, that not one character from TNG came to the wedding. Excluding Miles, of course. But I digress.
That’s not exactly true. Troi said she’d need to ask Captain Picard, and if he agreed, she could be at Jupiter station by “early next week”. That doesn’t mean the enterprise was recalled, it means she could have jumped into a shuttle and got there in a few days.
I was oversimplifying the words, but yea, Captain Picard and Troi temporarily dropped their flagship starship mission to go back to Earth's galaxy, during a war mind you, to let Troi council Barkley, not once but twice. Once with Dr. Zimmerman was dying, and another with that communication tower base episode(s) Barkley was stationed at. Yet none of them could attend Worf's wedding.
But, again, it might have just been Troi and not the Enterprise. Crew leave on shuttles for conferences and personal engagements all the time during the show.
And being a week from the capital of the Federation and being a week away from a place called DEEP SPACE 9 are two different things.
Didn't they rush the ceremony? I seem to remember it being all done in a single episode, likely over just a few days.
Not a lot of time to get halfway across the Federation.
But, yeah, that is a pet peeve of weddings in TV shows, where it's always all the main cast and 2-3 extras. No one has friends outside of work or family. But budgets are tight. Need to suspend that disbelief...
Yeah a bunch of the novels have different TNG characters talking to Worf about Jadzia but those are only as canon as you want them to be lol it would've been nice to get more recognition between shows
I wish there was more intermingling of the story lines. This goes for a lot of shows with spinoff or continuation stories, not just Star Trek. Even the same show sometimes. But season to season, or episode to episode. A thing will happen, that is pretty substantial, and then it’s never mentioned again after the resolution
Yeah, that's probably why it never comes up. They were really trying to capture the casual audience with those movies and assumed a lot of the audience either wouldn't have watched DS9 or have cared about it, so they didn't want to dwell on it.
It never has the effect they studio expects it to, though. It's hard to get a casual audience to really care about something that's been established for decades even if you try to ignore continuity you think is going to confuse them. Ask Marvel and DC. They've been trying to do the same thing for 40 years.
I mean, YMMV but it feels to me like Marvel pulled it off pretty well with the first few phases of the MCU. They simplified or ignored a lot of stuff from the comics and made wildly successful products that appealed to the general audiences. People who had never read a comic book before went to those movies.
Now they've turned away from that approach and are introducing elements from their TV shows into the movie continuity, and it's not going great for them.
I was thinking more about the comics than the MCU.
In the comic world, both Marvel and DC keep rebooting and restarting things to get people into comics and that idea has been around since the 80s and never works. They keep thinking that millions of people aren't reading comics because they continuity intimidates them when it's really that first there was a stigma against it and now they're still so niche that a lot of people aren't interested.
Although in the movie realm, I find it kind of funny that DC keeps thinking they need to go back to the beginning with Batman and Marvel keeps thinking they need to go back with Spider-Man when the audiences seem to want neither.
The DS9 episode "Hard Time" (O'Brien goes to >! Mind !< prison) was such a huge example of this for me. They could have unwound his trauma over multiple seasons, with ee-CHAR just showing up every so often. Hell, make him a permanent part of O'Brien's character.
But no, end of episode, all better. Never came up again, unless I'm overlooking something.
That's the biggest issue imo about old Trek, and shows in general from that era. We are so used to watch on demand now, that we do not miss episodes. But back then it was mostly written that if you missed a few weeks, you could still jump straight back in. So it was mostly written with the idea that you did miss a few episode, and either making no references at all, or rehashing old stuff as if you as a viewer already forgot about what happened.
So in this case, if they had ee-Char show up every so often, they would need to explain this to the audience every single time, just like why he changed so much.
I definitely missed this with Picard as well when he became Locutus. An absolutely tragic and devastating thing, he would normally be messed up for a long time, you would constantly see him struggle etc. In a modern show they would probably make that last like half a season, have Riker and Troi support him constantly to both keep going, and not look weak among the crew. But instead they gave him 1 episode to sort it, and after that some references here and there.
DS9 was already quite rare because unlike TOS, TNG and VOY, DS9 had constant storylines going on, on the station with many (recurring) characters, you had all these races like Bajorans, Cardassians, Klingons, the Dominon races, Ferengi etc etc. And sure, TNG had some of that, but it was very minor, it was still very much focus on the main cast and the guest stars that only showed up for that episode, usually never seen again.
I’m fairly confident you’re right. Thanks for the specific example, cause I didn’t have one. Yea, things like that. Just gets blown over once it’s over. For me, it doesn’t even have to be a big thing. Just mentioning “hey you remember when X happened?” Or, “how’s your head after X battle/injury?”
Hah all of the transporter fuckery episodes, that one with the orchids, they have solved ageing! those orchids would be being mass produced within minutes of that medical paper being published, they also cured viraly induced aging with transporter fuckery.
Oh and perfected cloning ('Thomas' Riker) so they have also cured 'Tuvix' problems (prior to the Tuvix problem even).
Hell with these 'treatments' they can even cure diseases that need to be caught early to fix: got a genetic condition that if not treated before puberty is fatal at 30? beam with some orchids get treatment bam done the only 'issue' is you might have to go through puberty again.
The episode where they de-evolve always makes me laugh. For sure some of them killed each other. All their DNA was altered, then changed back. The ship turned into a swamp. And at the end, Picard is just like ‘the crew continues to make repairs’ and that’s it.
That society must be super fucked up. Imagine being a repeat offender? Just walking around with 100+ years of hideous prison trauma? Wild justice system.
He probably told Deanna, and Deanna didn't say anything because she's a counsellor and his friend/ex-lover. He rarely spoke about his life to those around him, and we only know as much because we see him with his family and his lovers.
It really is the perfect personal spaceship. Big and capable enough to do basically anything you could want to do with it, but not so big and complicated that you need a whole crew to man it. The styling could be a bit cooler, but that’s really its only flaw. The Delta Flyer is the only real competitor, but it’s kind of small.
It is the tricky nature of having a character in both a TV show and a movie. Insurrection was filmed March through June of that year, which was also about the time they started writing Tears of the Prophets (writing finished in April). So the movie had been planned and been in pre-production likely well before Farrell decided to commit to leaving.
It is rough they couldn't slip in a line or reference.
But, since it might be six months, it's pretty easy to assume Worf had taken some time off and his friends had called him and spent time with him prior. Plus, the events of the movie unfold over several days but we only get a few hours of screentime. There's plenty of time for them to have private conversations that aren't shown because they're irrelevant to the plot.
Word gave her a warriors funeral, to remain in the moment of her death would dishonor her. His friends on the Enterprise know at least that much about how Worf's grieving process works
I am 90% positive there’s a line in the Insurrection novelization where Riker says something about trying to get Worf back to his “new wife.”
Consider the timelines to get this printed, the seven 7 negotiations for the DS9 crew, and how things turned out with Terry (read: vindictive unnamed executives), and not mentioning her makes more sense. At least from a real world POV and not in-universe.
Well of course they don't care, did you see any of them at Worf's wedding? Yet we see the Enterprise was recalled to Earth, because Barkley needed Diana to council him, not once, but twice. Lol
Some of the post TNG novels bring up Worf confiding in Riker about it and then I’m sure there’s a flashback to Worf in Picards ready room while they awkwardly try to discuss his trauma.
DrewVelvet@reddit
Just because it didn't happen on screen doesn't mean it didn't happen.
clutzyninja@reddit
Why would you bring up your friend's murdered wife unprompted, months later?
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
You would like to think people would show some empathy and understanding? Especially Beverly, having been through something similar.
clutzyninja@reddit
Empathy and understanding doesn't mean you bring it up unprompted, especially while you're on duty.
It means you're there for them in whatever way they need.
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
I genuinely feel sorry for you if that is how you have experienced life.
clutzyninja@reddit
Friends being there for each other ... sounds bad to you?
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
In passive silence?
FeistyLioness86@reddit
Or even attended the ceremony...
Johnsendall@reddit
Eh. I let that one go. War time, Enterprise E could be on the other side of the quadrant at that point. Reality of starfleet life.
FeistyLioness86@reddit
Fair enough
Johnsendall@reddit
Would have been nice to have a line or two thrown in there:
Sisko: “I’m sorry to hear none of your friends from the Enterprise couldn’t be here for the wedding.”
Worf: “To be absent for familial rituals during war is a sacrifice all warriors must face. Although I will regret not having my friends at my wedding, they honor me by continuing to fight and defend their homes.”
Gummies1345@reddit
Yet the Enterprise was recalled back to Earth, all because Barkley needed Diana for counciling. Was also during the war.
AnswerLopsided2361@reddit
No, it wasn't. The Dominion War ended in 2375. Life Line takes place in 2376.
Gummies1345@reddit
Oh, was that the episode where the Doctor goes to see Dr. Zimmerman?
AnswerLopsided2361@reddit
Yep.
Gummies1345@reddit
You sure? That episode was like in season 4 or 5, right? You sure you aren't thinking of the episode where Barkley was trying work his mojo magic on the communications array thing, in season 6-7? I never tried to remember the stardate stuff, but I do remember Diana counciling Barkley several times, on the Voyager show, when she was supposed to be stationed on Enterprise. Star Trek really does make it look like there's a councilor shortage.
AnswerLopsided2361@reddit
Troi appeared in three Voyager episodes, all in season six, "Pathfinder", "Life Line", and "Inside Man."
"Life Line" was the episode with Zimmerman.
"Pathfinder" is established to be in 2376 as per Memory Alpha.
Gummies1345@reddit
I bow to your knowledge. They weren't in the war at the times, but I still consider it weird that Diana went out of her way for Barkley, but not for Worf, she was the Klingon word for Guardian of his son, and they had deep connection for each other. I will always say it was in bad taste, that not one character from TNG came to the wedding. Excluding Miles, of course. But I digress.
Johnsendall@reddit
That’s not exactly true. Troi said she’d need to ask Captain Picard, and if he agreed, she could be at Jupiter station by “early next week”. That doesn’t mean the enterprise was recalled, it means she could have jumped into a shuttle and got there in a few days.
Gummies1345@reddit
I was oversimplifying the words, but yea, Captain Picard and Troi temporarily dropped their flagship starship mission to go back to Earth's galaxy, during a war mind you, to let Troi council Barkley, not once but twice. Once with Dr. Zimmerman was dying, and another with that communication tower base episode(s) Barkley was stationed at. Yet none of them could attend Worf's wedding.
DJWGibson@reddit
But, again, it might have just been Troi and not the Enterprise. Crew leave on shuttles for conferences and personal engagements all the time during the show.
And being a week from the capital of the Federation and being a week away from a place called DEEP SPACE 9 are two different things.
DJWGibson@reddit
Didn't they rush the ceremony? I seem to remember it being all done in a single episode, likely over just a few days.
Not a lot of time to get halfway across the Federation.
But, yeah, that is a pet peeve of weddings in TV shows, where it's always all the main cast and 2-3 extras. No one has friends outside of work or family. But budgets are tight. Need to suspend that disbelief...
Deastrumquodvicis@reddit
O’Brien: am I a joke to you? Actually, don’t answer that.
MDuBanevich@reddit
"Do you know how much Patrick Stewart costs??" -Berman to Ira
carrobucks@reddit
Yeah a bunch of the novels have different TNG characters talking to Worf about Jadzia but those are only as canon as you want them to be lol it would've been nice to get more recognition between shows
Tronman100@reddit
This was my thought too. Troi recognized Jadzia's death in the "Battle of Betazed" novel.
ThorsHammer245@reddit
I wish there was more intermingling of the story lines. This goes for a lot of shows with spinoff or continuation stories, not just Star Trek. Even the same show sometimes. But season to season, or episode to episode. A thing will happen, that is pretty substantial, and then it’s never mentioned again after the resolution
BobRushy@reddit
The problem is that it risks alienating the casual audience. I and a bunch of other people barely knew DS9 existed when we saw Insurrection.
Neveronlyadream@reddit
Yeah, that's probably why it never comes up. They were really trying to capture the casual audience with those movies and assumed a lot of the audience either wouldn't have watched DS9 or have cared about it, so they didn't want to dwell on it.
It never has the effect they studio expects it to, though. It's hard to get a casual audience to really care about something that's been established for decades even if you try to ignore continuity you think is going to confuse them. Ask Marvel and DC. They've been trying to do the same thing for 40 years.
kamahaoma@reddit
I mean, YMMV but it feels to me like Marvel pulled it off pretty well with the first few phases of the MCU. They simplified or ignored a lot of stuff from the comics and made wildly successful products that appealed to the general audiences. People who had never read a comic book before went to those movies.
Now they've turned away from that approach and are introducing elements from their TV shows into the movie continuity, and it's not going great for them.
Neveronlyadream@reddit
I was thinking more about the comics than the MCU.
In the comic world, both Marvel and DC keep rebooting and restarting things to get people into comics and that idea has been around since the 80s and never works. They keep thinking that millions of people aren't reading comics because they continuity intimidates them when it's really that first there was a stigma against it and now they're still so niche that a lot of people aren't interested.
Although in the movie realm, I find it kind of funny that DC keeps thinking they need to go back to the beginning with Batman and Marvel keeps thinking they need to go back with Spider-Man when the audiences seem to want neither.
Mister_Buddy@reddit
The DS9 episode "Hard Time" (O'Brien goes to >! Mind !< prison) was such a huge example of this for me. They could have unwound his trauma over multiple seasons, with ee-CHAR just showing up every so often. Hell, make him a permanent part of O'Brien's character.
But no, end of episode, all better. Never came up again, unless I'm overlooking something.
CrazyGunnerr@reddit
That's the biggest issue imo about old Trek, and shows in general from that era. We are so used to watch on demand now, that we do not miss episodes. But back then it was mostly written that if you missed a few weeks, you could still jump straight back in. So it was mostly written with the idea that you did miss a few episode, and either making no references at all, or rehashing old stuff as if you as a viewer already forgot about what happened.
So in this case, if they had ee-Char show up every so often, they would need to explain this to the audience every single time, just like why he changed so much.
I definitely missed this with Picard as well when he became Locutus. An absolutely tragic and devastating thing, he would normally be messed up for a long time, you would constantly see him struggle etc. In a modern show they would probably make that last like half a season, have Riker and Troi support him constantly to both keep going, and not look weak among the crew. But instead they gave him 1 episode to sort it, and after that some references here and there.
DS9 was already quite rare because unlike TOS, TNG and VOY, DS9 had constant storylines going on, on the station with many (recurring) characters, you had all these races like Bajorans, Cardassians, Klingons, the Dominon races, Ferengi etc etc. And sure, TNG had some of that, but it was very minor, it was still very much focus on the main cast and the guest stars that only showed up for that episode, usually never seen again.
ThorsHammer245@reddit
I’m fairly confident you’re right. Thanks for the specific example, cause I didn’t have one. Yea, things like that. Just gets blown over once it’s over. For me, it doesn’t even have to be a big thing. Just mentioning “hey you remember when X happened?” Or, “how’s your head after X battle/injury?”
Useless_bum81@reddit
Hah all of the transporter fuckery episodes, that one with the orchids, they have solved ageing! those orchids would be being mass produced within minutes of that medical paper being published, they also cured viraly induced aging with transporter fuckery.
Oh and perfected cloning ('Thomas' Riker) so they have also cured 'Tuvix' problems (prior to the Tuvix problem even).
Hell with these 'treatments' they can even cure diseases that need to be caught early to fix: got a genetic condition that if not treated before puberty is fatal at 30? beam with some orchids get treatment bam done the only 'issue' is you might have to go through puberty again.
sunkskunkstunk@reddit
The episode where they de-evolve always makes me laugh. For sure some of them killed each other. All their DNA was altered, then changed back. The ship turned into a swamp. And at the end, Picard is just like ‘the crew continues to make repairs’ and that’s it.
ThorsHammer245@reddit
Yea the transporter is functional immortality
alexagente@reddit
It was what, like 20 years?
And they had him murder his friend?
That society must be super fucked up. Imagine being a repeat offender? Just walking around with 100+ years of hideous prison trauma? Wild justice system.
killergazebo@reddit
And he's getting drunk at Riker and Troi's wedding and it's played for laughs even though it's incredibly tragic.
But in his friends' defense, he probably didn't tell any of them about Jadzia because he's Worf.
Morethanstandard@reddit
Oh 100% bet he didn't tell any of the bridge crew about that wedding
rnoyfb@reddit
They were work proximity associates, not friends
SciFiNut91@reddit
He probably told Deanna, and Deanna didn't say anything because she's a counsellor and his friend/ex-lover. He rarely spoke about his life to those around him, and we only know as much because we see him with his family and his lovers.
Throwaway_inSC_79@reddit
“You were married?”
Effective-Board-353@reddit
Crossword clue: "Bad guy who killed Worf's mate." So far I've got DU_A_. I'm torn between two answers.
CyberNinja23@reddit
Poor Worf, no permanently prejudiced against anyone whose name starts with Du….
OutsideSuitable5740@reddit
He will probably hate Duran Duran
Effective-Board-353@reddit
And DS9's runabout Rio Grande.
Complex_Professor412@reddit
Now I’m hungry like the Worf.
RocketDog2001@reddit
Boo!
glassgost@reddit
Man, a DS9 Runabout is THE Sci fi spaceship I want the most.
TargetApprehensive38@reddit
It really is the perfect personal spaceship. Big and capable enough to do basically anything you could want to do with it, but not so big and complicated that you need a whole crew to man it. The styling could be a bit cooler, but that’s really its only flaw. The Delta Flyer is the only real competitor, but it’s kind of small.
SleepWouldBeNice@reddit
Could be both/either
Effective-Board-353@reddit
I was waiting for someone to mention that!
gordonfactor@reddit
Glory to you, and your joke
pyrrh0@reddit
Meta joke. Textured like a Klingon forehead.
ladykansas@reddit
I'm dense. What's the other option besides Dukat?
dunny1872@reddit
Duras.
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
Damn! Mind blown!
Majestic-Panic8972@reddit
Nice
silverfaustx@reddit
He doesn't even tell his friends he has a son
bigersmaler@reddit
Hormone planet made everyone too horny to care.
DJWGibson@reddit
It is the tricky nature of having a character in both a TV show and a movie. Insurrection was filmed March through June of that year, which was also about the time they started writing Tears of the Prophets (writing finished in April). So the movie had been planned and been in pre-production likely well before Farrell decided to commit to leaving.
It is rough they couldn't slip in a line or reference.
But, since it might be six months, it's pretty easy to assume Worf had taken some time off and his friends had called him and spent time with him prior. Plus, the events of the movie unfold over several days but we only get a few hours of screentime. There's plenty of time for them to have private conversations that aren't shown because they're irrelevant to the plot.
AndreaRose223@reddit
Word gave her a warriors funeral, to remain in the moment of her death would dishonor her. His friends on the Enterprise know at least that much about how Worf's grieving process works
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
Ooh if you edit your post it’s good form to note. Now my gif just looks silly.
😂😂
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
kup1986@reddit
I am 90% positive there’s a line in the Insurrection novelization where Riker says something about trying to get Worf back to his “new wife.”
Consider the timelines to get this printed, the seven 7 negotiations for the DS9 crew, and how things turned out with Terry (read: vindictive unnamed executives), and not mentioning her makes more sense. At least from a real world POV and not in-universe.
Romulan-Jedi@reddit
Oh, the executive was named. It was Rick Berman.
Gummies1345@reddit
Well of course they don't care, did you see any of them at Worf's wedding? Yet we see the Enterprise was recalled to Earth, because Barkley needed Diana to council him, not once, but twice. Lol
HisDivineOrder@reddit
Considering how happy Worf is to ditch his brothers and children, maybe his friends are used to not talking about Worf's family.
TheGameMastre@reddit
That's not as bad as Riker saying the villains traffic in "a narcotic called" ketracel white.
Altruistic-Potatoes@reddit
My friend lost his wife. I bring it up all the time because I'm a good friend.
Ecstatic_Lab9010@reddit
It was someone from the House of Duras, wasn't it?
Master_K_Genius_Pi@reddit
Fuck you, Rick Berman!
mannamamark@reddit
Maybe they did and it was a deleted scene?
Hyro0o0@reddit
I mean... do people typically like to chat about their murdered spouses?
sunkskunkstunk@reddit
I often and loudly mention I had nothing to do with it. So far so good.
KassellTheArgonian@reddit
Ah the OJ method, a classic
bigt503@reddit
To be fair. Worf wouldn’t want to talk about it
Starch-Wreck@reddit
This guy Cons
Tralkki@reddit
Ok_Run344@reddit
A Klingon Warrior does not need consolation!
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
Just blood (or exploding a small part of a star).
Strong-Jellyfish-456@reddit
Let’s consider:
WORF DIDN’T TELL THEM HE WAS MARRIED.
Now, let’s flip this meme.
Indiana_harris@reddit
Some of the post TNG novels bring up Worf confiding in Riker about it and then I’m sure there’s a flashback to Worf in Picards ready room while they awkwardly try to discuss his trauma.