Race question part 2
Posted by Cusacks-musak@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 136 comments
As some asked this is a diagram of the incident. I was crew on Boat A. The skipper of Boat B claimed a they had to bear away to avoid a collision. My skipper claimed no risk of collision (there was no shouts or calls). Distance to the mark was about 200-300’
dodafdude@reddit
Boat B must hail "Starboard Tack" and then hold their heading (relative to wind).
Boat A must acknowledge and say "Hold Your Course". Boat A must maneuver to avoid (including tacking).
If Boat B never hails, they never established their Starboard Tack rights.
Unless within 2 boat lengths of the mark, the race course has nothing to do with upwind rights.
sedatedruler@reddit
I hate being that guy and there a bunch of factual mistakes in this post.
>Boat B must hail "Starboard Tack" and then hold their heading (relative to wind).
Rule 10 applies here which states: `When are on opposite tacks, a port-tack boat shall keep clear of a starboard-tack boat.`
That means that boat B has the right of way because she's on starboard which is not dependent on if she hails. There are only two times in the racing rules of sailing you are required to hail -- when you must tack at an obstruction and when protesting someone. Otherwise, the rules apply regardless of hailing. Most boats will hail (esp amateur boats) to make sure everyone knows the rules and are paying attention.
Rule 10 says nothing about holding your heading. In fact, as long as boat B doesn't give up her rights, she can do whatever she'd like in this situation as long as she gives boat A time to avoid her. Rule 16: "When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear."
> Boat A must acknowledge and say "Hold Your Course". Boat A must maneuver to avoid (including tacking).
Again, no hailing required here and telling the right-of-way boat to "hold your course" doesn't make sense.
> If Boat B never hails, they never established their Starboard Tack rights.
Ugh, sadly this isn't true. Read Rule 10. A boat has rights because of her position relative to the wind, not because of words spoken.
> Both boats are free to maneuver, although an outright collision would be blamed on the port tack Boat A.
Also not quite right :(
If boat A fails to keep clear (Rule 14) she can be penalized even if there was no contact.
> Unless within 2 boat lengths of the mark, the race course has nothing to do with upwind rights.
Also not quite right :(
The zone is three boat lengths of the boat closer to the mark, not two.
dodafdude@reddit
You know about rules, but not so much about real racing Skippy.
FlickrPaul@reddit
If Boat B had to change coarse than Boat A is at fault.
danielt1263@reddit
But the key here is that if Boat B had to change course. If Boat B simply changed course to make Boat A look bad or out of an abundance of caution, then Boat A is not at fault.
Or as the rules say, it must be "clear" that Boat A is not giving room, and there is dispute over whether room needed to be given, implying that it was not clear.
chrisxls@reddit
Boat A must keep clear of Boat B, regardless of why Boat B chose its course. Boat B has some limitations on its course, but they are not discussed here (B cannot change course in a way that A has no chance to keep clear (Rule 16.1), B cannot bear off if A is trying to go astern(Rule 16.2)).
Most rules disputes are disputes about the facts... "you were so close I had to change course" vs. "you could have stayed the course and you would have been fine". Sometimes there ar ealso disputes about how to apply the rules, but they too usually also have a dispute about the facts ;)
I think your are quoting Rule 14, which states the a right-of-way boat does not have to act to avoid contact until it is "clear" that the other boat isn't going to keep clear. But that is different from saying the right-of-way boat may not bear off until it is clear. The only limitations on the starbaord boat is Rule 16 I think... but maybe there is something else youre referring to?
danielt1263@reddit
You have my position almost correct. However, I'm not saying that boat B wasn't allowed to bear away, I'm only saying that the mere fact that it did bear away doesn't mean boat A was in violation. There are any number of reasons why boat B might have born away and all but one of them implies a violation by boat A.
And yea, it seems to me that the dispute is precisely a dispute about the fact of the matter. I expect that both skippers understand that boat A must give boat B room. My assumption is that boat A claims that boat B had room, therefore they bore away for some reason other than to avoid collision. Boat B claims that they didn't have room and only bore away in order to avoid collision.
chrisxls@reddit
Yup, all good. Fact disputes like this always make it clear to me that I don't want to be on a protest committee.
hypnotoad23@reddit
Good luck proving that in the room. Port tack boat is guilty until proven innocent
saywherefore@reddit
That’s not true at all. A protest committee will hear all sides, form an opinion of the most likely reality of the situation, and rule accordingly.
danielt1263@reddit
My understanding is that there's no "room" to prove it in. This was a "friends race"... One of those things that will just be discussed in the bar ad infinitum.
DalaiLuke@reddit
ad infinitum is an ancient Aramaic word... roughly translates as "... bartender how about a round of shots?"
_Barbaric_yawp@reddit
You should check out case 50.
danielt1263@reddit
Competitor clothing? Why should I check that out?
VowOfScience@reddit
World Sailing Case Book #50, not rule 50.
silverfstop@reddit
This. You're far enough away that you're outside the zone, and if this were judged they'd be looking for tiller moment to avoid a collision.
Foolserrand376@reddit
The zone doesn’t matter when boats are approaching the mark on opposite tacks.
PorkHunt@reddit
This is correct and it’s scary the amount of sailors that enter regattas and don’t know this.
Foolserrand376@reddit
Further more Any RC that’s sets a course with a starboard rounding. Needs to be keel hauled.
asm__nop@reddit
It’s scary that you are so confidently wrong.
https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/18.2-Giving-Mark-Room.pdf
_Barbaric_yawp@reddit
18(1)(a)(1) Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone. However, it does not apply between boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward. It’s absolutely relevant at a reach mark or a leeward mark
Foolserrand376@reddit
As the pic indicates. This is neither reaching nor leeward mark. It appear that A and B are beating to the mark. so 18 is turned off.
Rule 10 and possible rule 16 if it was clear that A was going to clear B and then B started to Bear away more
B has the rights and A must avoid. Absent any other details
maddrops@reddit
They didn't specify what size boat, if they're racing maxi yachts they could be inside the zone
silverfstop@reddit
You’re right. Could have been racing the Maltese Falcon too… but somehow I doubt that’s the case.
mrchin12@reddit
...And only if they were forced to bear away to avoid collision.
A will claim they were clear, B will claim they had to bear away.
Without witness it's a throw away case. I can't remember if both boats get DNF'd in that case or not, it might be committee dependent.
robbor123@reddit
Boat on starboard tack always has right of way.
dodafdude@reddit
Yes, but both boats are free to maneuver until the starboard tack boat hails. At that point, the port tack boat must clearly yield, or holler "Hold Your Course" and own the consequences.
rmslashusr@reddit
The only hails specified by the rules are “Room to tack”, it’s acceptable response (“you tack”), and “protest”.
Starboard boat is not required to hail for port to be required to keep clear and “hold your course” does not to my knowledge fully exonerate any skipper from failure to avoid collision (though it may be considered a mitigating factor) nor does it prevent starboard boat from tacking to avoid collision and protesting.
dodafdude@reddit
Well I've been racing sailboats for decades. You can read me the rule book but still not understand. Of course Starboard tack always has right of way. OP asked if Boat B could call foul because they had to bear off to avoid collision. NO (unless witnesses could verify imminent collision). Boat B exhibited poor seamanship by maneuvering in close proximity when he had the right of way. How did he know whether Boat A was also in the process of maneuvering to avoid collision? Boat A could actually be responsible for a collision, if they failed to give Boat B enough room to avoid it. The hailing procedure I described above reduces ambiguity, confirms who must/is maneuvering, and works fine over radio.
High speed foiling catamarans are another story.
VowOfScience@reddit
Mate, this is patently untrue. There is no requirement to hail.
kdjfsk@reddit
Would love to hear the response when hop on the VHF and say that to CVN-78.
I imagine you just meant in racing, but when people hear absolutes like that, they take it way too literally.
robbor123@reddit
Starboard tack boats always the right of way. Doesn't matter if it's racing or cruising. It's one of the very first rules you learn as a kid sailing Optimus dingys.
kdjfsk@reddit
No, they do not.
They do not have right of way against vessels restricted by draft, or by commercial fishing vessels in the act of fishing, etc. Its way more complicated than that.
yoyo_climber@reddit
When is a commercial fishing boat on a port tack exactly?
kdjfsk@reddit
Tack of the fishing vessel isnt relevant.
A statement was made that boats on a starboard tack "always" have right of way. They do not. Tack of the fishing vessel doesnt come into play regardless whether it has sails or not.
yoyo_climber@reddit
Perhaps you should go teach your "adult sailing" in the childrens sailing subreddit then, cause we all know the colregs, no need to be pedantic.
kdjfsk@reddit
No. New people join the subreddit every day who don't know.
yoyo_climber@reddit
Haha, you really are a reply guy aren't you?
robbor123@reddit
Jesus dude....we're talking about sailboats here not commercial shipping.
MissingGravitas@reddit
If your starboard tack racing yacht is overtaking some small cabin cruiser that's putting along, your sailboat is still the give-way vessel.
kdjfsk@reddit
Which is i said:
We do share the water with commercial vessels, often even when sailing.
racing boats absolutely do not get special privileges just because they are racing.
Birdchild@reddit
We are literally talking about racing. In a thread asking a question about racing
kdjfsk@reddit
There are commercial vessels who have the right of way, even when you are racing.
Again, do you not understand that newbies take it literally and it endangers them to say "always"?
Birdchild@reddit
From now on, in every right of way discussion, we are going to preface all discussion about specific right of way questions with every single caveat possible in order to satisfy you.
kdjfsk@reddit
How about instead, we just dont use the keyword 'always', so that newbs dont die or sink their boat? Is that a reasonable compromise?
Birdchild@reddit
I even agree with you about starboard not always having right of way--they dont always under rrs, but we really don't need to break out colregs for every sinlge rrs discussion.
kdjfsk@reddit
i never said we did, but can we just not use the word "always". Thats the only plea im trying to make here.
Always means always.
Right of way is hard enough to understand for newbies, then someone says 'starboard always has right of way', and they go..."oh, thats easy. If i just stay on starboard, i can do whatever, go wherever i want. Cruise ship coming to port in the channel? Fuckem, im on a starboard tack! Reddit said im good! Besides, I'm racin'!. Oh, look a submarine...neat, but he better go under me, because im on a Fuckin starboard tack! Reddit said always! "
do you not see how dangerous this is when its so easily misinterpreted.
No, we dont need to quote colregs. Just dont use the 'always', so people dont die, sink, get in trouble, etc.
the_fresh_cucumber@reddit
Sorry the diagram is of two sailboats.
I don't see a "commercial fishing vessel in the act of fishing" in the diagram.
drossmaster4@reddit
You don’t have to be mean and call it adult sailing.
RTS24@reddit
I love how you gave them an out and they just doubled down on their confidently incorrect take.
kev-lar70@reddit
No, they don't. First, there's no "Right of Way". Second, there's "room at the mark". We won a close race on port against a starboard boat because we were entitled to room at the (finish) mark.
struggleworm@reddit
That and don’t let go of the halyard shackle before you secure the main.
mrchin12@reddit
It would be weird to be racing near an aircraft carrier in most cases. I've been in a relatable incident though so... Yeah, nothing is absolute.
kdjfsk@reddit
Sailboat racing is quite popular around Norfolk, right in the Elizabeth river, next to Naval Station Norfolk. The Aircraft Carriers dont come and go often, but it does happen...and theres many other Naval vessels and cargo ships creating a lot of traffic. Ask how i know.
bradbenz@reddit
Not sure why the down votes, you're 💯 correct.
VowOfScience@reddit
A lot of inaccurate or incomplete answers here. I'm a US sailing judge; in my experience, most racers do not know the rules as well as they think they do.
Everyone is of course correct that boat B on starboard had right of way over boat A on port. Boat A therefore had to keep clear of Boat B (rule 10).
Broadly speaking, there is no "burden of proof" or presumption of innocence in sailing; protests are decided on a simple balance of probabilities. There is, however, guidance on how to decide cases such as this, provided in World Sailing Case Book #50 (https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/cases/50?page=5). In short: if Boat B did in fact change course, they only need to establish that they had a "genuine and reasonable apprehension of collision". Notably, they do NOT need to establish that a collision would have definitely occurred.
Finally, one issue that I haven't seen anyone talking about is RRS 23.2. If the course to the next mark is really as shown in your diagram it's hard to imagine why Boat B would be sailing in that direction, perpendicular to the course. I would question if they were sailing their proper course; if not, theymust, if reasonably possible, avoid interfering with a boat sailing on another leg of the course (such as Boat A)
stefan41@reddit
Looking at your diagram and reading the story, I would offer this heavily caveated take. If: * both boats were racing under the racing rules of sailing * and the SIs said to leave this mark to starboard * and either you were on a very big boat, or you are bad at judging distances on the water (which is tough to do well tbh)
Then: * it is possible your skipper judged himself to be in the zone of 3 boat lengths of the mark
If this is the case then rule 18 would have applied. Under this rule since boat B will not be able to make the mark without tacking, boat B has no rights.
Not to be dense, but did you ask your skipper what he or she thought about the situation?
I am not super confident in this response, but I am posting it in the hopes that if I’m wrong, someone will correct me.
CloudyEngineer@reddit
"Sorry Boat B I didn't see you because the sun was in my eyes"
haikusbot@reddit
"Sorry Boat B I
Didn't see you because the
Sun was in my eyes"
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^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^Learn more about me.
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cmclx@reddit
I doubt the drawing is to scale, and the OP said the mark was 200-300 feet away. Unless this was big boat racing, Sounds like B is not telling the truth or got a bit antsy and did not want to scuff their new topsides. I would have yelled “starboard” from a mile away to see if A would blink and change course. Did they fly a protest flag?
kerrmatt@reddit
Rule 10: A port-tack boat shall keep clear of a starboard-tack boat.
Rule 14: B need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat (A) is not keeping clear or giving room or mark-room.
16.1 When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.
So, Since B changed course, they need to keep clear, 200 to 300 feet from the mark, Rule 18 doesn't come into effect.
If B had tacked, then it goes to Rule 13: After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close-hauled course. During that time rules 10, 11 and 12 do not apply.
Best thing for B to have done here is to yell out "Starboard" and maintain course, tacking as soon as A is head to wind.
Difficult-Hope-843@reddit
Racing strategy could have been drive A to wind, then tack and round the mark?
saywherefore@reddit
I believe B had already rounded the mark, so her aim is to sail her proper course.
Difficult-Hope-843@reddit
Ah. Makes sense. Either way, B still has right of way.
kerrmatt@reddit
Assuming there was conflict. The fact that B dipped instead of tacking is weird that would've been a turn to port.
M37841@reddit
If contact would have been B bow to A stern it might have made sense to bear away briefly and cross to windward so as not to be tacking into A’s wind shadow, perhaps?
kerrmatt@reddit
Maybe but you would still protest. The end result would've been the same. It's just poor seamanship to alter to port.
M37841@reddit
Oh for sure you would protest. I was just speculating on why when forced to take an evasive manoeuvre he chose to duck rather than tack. If he was close enough to A’s stern so it wasn’t a violent manoeuvre then there’s a reason to choose that line so you end up to windward when you tack. Sort of like a port flyer starting strategy.
lesviolonsdelautomne@reddit
Like many have said, boat B was on starboard tack, and so it was up to boat A to keep clear. The fact that B did not attempt to hail A, or was not heard by A if they did attempt to hail “starboard!” is irrelevant. In a protest room, this is probably a he-said-she-said unless someone has a witness who can corroborate whether B altered course or not, and if that action was necessary to avoid a collision
Maleficent_Air9036@reddit
If they were still 200’ apart from each other B does not need to change course yet. They are racing, not cruising.
lesviolonsdelautomne@reddit
The boats are 200 to 300 feet from the mark, not from each other. We cannot assume that this drawing is to scale, and therefore cannot assume the distance between the two boats. The distance from each other, and therefore the need for B to alter course to avoid a collision, remains the point of contention. That said, I agree with you that if the boats were never closer than 200 feet away from each other, there is likely no foul here
bagnap@reddit
Can someone explain the different between ‘stand on’ and ‘right of way’?
I was always taught that boats firstly have a duty to avoid collision and that having right of way doesn’t negate the need to avoid a collision..
saywherefore@reddit
There is a much simpler difference that I don’t think has been mentioned. “Stand on” occurs when boats are interacting under IRPCS, also colloquially known as COLREGS, I.e. not racing. Under IRPCS you never have right of way, but in some circumstances you have an obligation to stand on.
“Right of way” occurs under the racing rules of sailing (RRS), and does in most circumstances allow the right of way boat to manoeuvre.
MissingGravitas@reddit
"Right of way" is almost never taken to mean an absolute right to proceed, no matter if you're in a car on land or on a boat at sea. Many people don't understand this point, and to correct this others like to point out there under the COLREGS there is no mention of right of way.
I.e. if you're driving a car at an intersection, and you see some guy on a motorcycle doing donuts in it, you can't just ram him out of the way and claim you had "right of way" since the light was green.
In a practical sense, right of way is generally used to refer to the vessel that gets to keep doing what it's doing, as opposed to the vessel that needs to stop, change course, or otherwise take avoiding action.
millijuna@reddit
The difference is twofold. First, the stand on vessel has a duty to hold course and speed until either the situation has passed, or they too become a give way vessel. This is so that the give way vessel can easily predict what the stand-on vessel will do. However, as I just indicated, a stand-on vessel can quickly also become the give way vessel, depending on the situation.
lesviolonsdelautomne@reddit
“Right of way” and “stand-on” are colloquially used interchangeably. “Stand-on” is what people actually mean, due to the subtle difference in meaning between the terms. Right of way is best thought of in a situation like downhill skiing, in which people farther down the mountain have the right to stop, start, and go wherever they please. Boats are stand-on vessels because they still have a duty to do exactly that: stand-on and maintain their course and speed unless and until they deem that the give way vessel is not taking sufficient action to avoid a collision.
bagnap@reddit
Thanks!
lesviolonsdelautomne@reddit
I should also add that in specific racing situations, a boat with the right of way may still see her right of way limited by the rules in some way. The two that come to mind are proper course requirements, and the duty of all boats to avoid collisions
US1MRacer@reddit
Setting up a course with starboard roundings should only be done when there is no reasonable alternative.
scot2282@reddit
Wind is sure blowing odd in this scenario
Cusacks-musak@reddit (OP)
I may not have got the direction spot on but why do you say it is blowing odd?
boommmmm@reddit
When a course is set correctly, the starting line is square (perpendicular) to the wind and the top mark is directly upwind from the middle of the line so drawings typically show the breeze direction as perpendicular to the mark.
Whether the course is depicted as square has no bearing on your question. u/scot2282 is an "ummm ackshually" guy.
scot2282@reddit
I didn’t understand his drawing. I appreciate the explanation. And your lack of tact. That means I calling you a prick. Actually
wrongwayup@reddit
It's not. Convention is to have it drawn such that wind is from the top of the page but your diagram shows us everything it needs to.
bozza8@reddit
Off topic but you know that everyone can read the real estate contract in this pic right?
Sailsherpa@reddit
Had A rounded?
jh937hfiu3hrhv9@reddit
They are starboard, leeward and within three boat lengths. Check mate.
Most_Nebula9655@reddit
Those guidelines are not in the appeals or casebook.
We routinely allow boats to cross within three boat lengths of one another.
If you meant feet, maybe, but in a 420, even 3 feet would not be considered close in most conditions.
dodafdude@reddit
I raced 420's and nobody looked kindly on that close of a pass, especially in a breeze. In the day I could duck your stern, round up and roll tack on you upwind quarter, and pump in sync with my crew to accelerate and move into your wind. I never worried about port tack - in fact it was my favorite way to cross a full starting line.
nikoelnutto@reddit
Could you explain this to a layman like me?
M37841@reddit
So imagine you’re on a start line and everyone is on starboard tack like boat B, so they are all going left. The wind is coming straight at you. You start on the left of the line on port tack so you are going right. You have no right of way so you go behind the stern of any boat whose path you cross but then when the leading fleet is to the left of you, you:
roll tack - the fastest way to tack where you roll the boat as you do so
pump - a way of accelerating the boat by pulling the sail in and using your body weight to give the boat a kick of speed
The result is you are now up with the leaders but on the right hand edge of the fleet which means you are between the wind and them. So you get clean air, they get your dirty air and you accelerate away from them.
Round here it’s called a port flyer. Risky move because you can easily spend the first minute of the race just avoiding people. But it’s beautiful to watch when it is done right
Birdchild@reddit
He meant the zone
Mediocre-Pen-8139@reddit
Also my take from this, highly depends on the boat lengths. Given the dimensions in the Sketch this should be the only answer.
lokeypod@reddit
Yes
PreschoolBoole@reddit
For those commenting, can you describe why one boat is at fault vs the other? I have no skin in the game here, just trying to learn.
Thadrach@reddit
First rule of Reddit: ignore both up and down votes.
There's valuable information here, but it's also the place that misidentified the Boston Marathon bomber...
Here2hodl@reddit
At a high level, according to USCG Rules of the Road:
Rule 12 – Sailing Vessels
This rule applies when two sailing vessels are approaching one another, and there is risk of collision. It establishes who must give way: 1. When both have the wind on different sides: • The vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other.
PreschoolBoole@reddit
What is the reasoning for that rule? Is it because of visibility? Or wind blockage?
MissingGravitas@reddit
It was because not having the rule led to confusion. Despite the other comments it's a relatively recent rule, and is fairly arbitrary.
For example, a few centuries back in the UK Royal Navy priority actually depended on rank. It didn't matter if both ships were in command of a Captain, seniority was based on position on the Captain's List, but I'm sure you can imagine there could still be opportunity for uncertainty.
Admiral Lord Howe, around the late 1700s (more or less, it's been a while!) finally ordered that priority be given to the vessel on starboard tack in order to simplify matters. I've also seen some notes mentioning this being a practice among merchant ships near Sweden, with commenters of the time suggesting that this would be a useful rule to have in general. I.e. further evidence for it not being a general custom or rule.
millijuna@reddit
As others have mentioned, there’s probably some ancient reasons for it. For hundreds of years, though, it’s been completely arbitrary. But there needs to be some sort of agreed upon priority, so this is the one that has existed since time immemorial.
dodafdude@reddit
Somebody has to have the defined right of way, just like driving a car on the right hand side of the street.
Space_Pirate_R@reddit
It's completely arbitrary, just like roads have rules based on who's turning in what direction.
kdjfsk@reddit
I read about this once...
supposedly, the word 'starboard' comes from the word 'steering board' aka rudder, which in old ships was to one side (starboard, obviously), not centered.
So if you were on a starboard tack, the boat is heeling to port. You'd have less steering control because there is less rudder in the water. so the boat on starboard was more restricted in movement.
It could be bullshit. Idk, lol...but it sounds legit.
Godlycookie777@reddit
Pretty sure it's because boats used to have a stearboard on the starboard side, and when you were on starboard tack the stearboard may lift out of the water due to heel, making you less manuverable. After that ig it just stuck. Not 100% sure if this is actually true since I only heard it once but it's the only explination ive ever heard for why starboard tack has rights lol.
RTS24@reddit
It goes back to the age when starboard was stēorbord, or steering board (basically just an oar). The rudder was on the starboard side so when you were on a starboard tack, the rudder would be lifted more out of the water, therefore giving less control.
kev-lar70@reddit
While racing, there is another set of rules involved, the Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) - https://www.ussailing.org/competition/rules-officiating/the-racing-rules-of-sailing-2025-2028/
Generally, the boat on Port (wind coming from the port side on to the main) is the give-way boat, and has to avoid boats on starboard.
There are some special cases where the Starboard boat is the give-way boat, but the OP said they were 200-300' from the mark, so unless the boats were 100', the rules for rounding marks don't apply, so not worth even looking at those rules for this case, and it's just a port-starboard encounter.
Previously, it was said Starboard had Right-of-Way (ROW), but both boats have a duty to avoid collision, so now give-way is the terminology.
dodafdude@reddit
That's the rules, but the practical implementation for racing has a protocol that I described above.
Ausierob@reddit
Basic sailing rule "When 2 Vessel approaching, the Vessel (sail boat) on the Starboard Tack (wind coming over the starboard side therefore sail set to port side) is the Stand On Vessel (has right of way)". So any vessel on a Port Tack (as in this case has to give way. When racing, this rule gets very stretched at times
the-montser@reddit
The racing rules of sailing are different from the colregs, which you’ve quoted.
This incident is covered under RRS 10.
Difficult-Hope-843@reddit
Not sure why you're being downvoted for an honest question. Basic sailing rules like others have said, starboard tack has right of way.
Ok_Panic_7112@reddit
Odd to be rounding a mark to starboard but A is on port and in the wrong.
CulpablyRedundant@reddit
Only time I've ever taken a windward mark to starboard is on a long distance race.
pheitkemper@reddit
Outside the zone, this is a violation of Rule 10, assuming no other mitigating circumstances.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
port stbd interaction, boat A needed to keep clear.
dodafdude@reddit
Unless you're a dinghy sailor. Boat B is forcing Boat A to miss their optimal mark rounding by pushing them up past the lay line (upwind course to the mark). In a duel, this can go on to extremes where Boat A finally ducks and both reach downwind to the upwind mark.
Difficult-Hope-843@reddit
Is it not common practice to have to round a marker in a particular direction? Haven't raced since I was a teenager, but the ones I was in always specified whether a mark was to be taken to port or starboard.
IanSan5653@reddit
Yes, but the common practice is for race committee to specify port roundings. At least for buoy races.
MSgtGunny@reddit
Port roundings are definitely the most common type, I usually only see starboard roundings on point to point races.
Tommy-Schlaaang@reddit
Yes.
entropy413@reddit
Exactly! Like wtf is boat b doing? “Everyone expects us to head for the downwind marker, now we’ll have the element of surprise”
Only thing that makes sense to me is they clipped the pin and had to round again.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
Captain B forgot it was stbd rounding haha
entropy413@reddit
Ha! But even then how do you end up on a starboard tack 2 boat lengths below the pin?
DemandNo3158@reddit
Sorry pal, b was right! Keep on sailing! Good luck 👍
Cusacks-musak@reddit (OP)
I am just crew, and learning as I go
_gooder@reddit
See if you can get on B's boat. 😂
Don_T_Blink@reddit
lol, burn!
Charming-Bath8378@reddit
and this is how one learns:)
MasterShoNuffTLD@reddit
B starboard. A is on port. A has to move. You said 200,300 ft from the mark so assuming no mark rules would come to play.
It probably feels weird because B is down wind but the rule of starboard over port still applies.
SlipMeA20@reddit
"B" was on STB tack. "A" was on PORT tack. B has Was B actually close-hauled? Why not?
Also, why was this race set up as Starboard roundings?
maddrops@reddit
Was this fleet or match racing?
yoyo_climber@reddit
You were in the wrong, your skipper needs to be more aware. In wednesday night races boats are not always going to cut things fine as noone wants a collision; doesn't mean you didn't make them alter course to avoid you.
loghearn@reddit
Can you please draw in the next mark of B’s course?
Cusacks-musak@reddit (OP)
Neither boat had rounded at this point. Boat B had made got caught on current I think and ended up going almost fully around the mark to make the turn. The race was in BC
mk3waterboy@reddit
While most course racing round marks to port as default, match racing rounds to starboard. There are many reasons to also round to starboard for fixed and even floating marks.
Assuming that boat B gybed around the mark and acquired starboard rights while giving boat A opportunity to stay clear, boat A is at fault. If boat B gybed in a manner that left boat A no option to avoid the collision, boat A may be at fault.
The rule requiring a boat acquiring right of way to provide the other boat room to keep clear is Rule 15 in the Racing Rules of Sailing. It states: “When a boat acquires right of way, she shall initially give the other boat room to keep clear, unless she acquires right of way because of the other boat’s actions”
Since boat A has rounded the mark and begun sailing the next leg rule 18 no longer applies.
sailingtroy@reddit
This is why courses that leave marks to starboard suck.
Don_T_Blink@reddit
Boat B had the right of way, IMO.