Unpopular opinion/take that would have the fandom at you like this?
Posted by Latte-Catte@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 224 comments
I can go first:
- Ares x Xena would 100% happen if Gabrielle wasn't there. Xena can stumble on her redemption, specifically without her Jimmy Kricket.
- I don't believe Xena love Marcus, not even for a moment, she feels guilty for him, but I firmly believe it was completely one-sided.
- I don't believe Gabrielle deserves the chakram in AFIN after Xena's death, she was NOT ready...(~~uh-oh~~).
Bleach_my_mind_plz@reddit
The finale was excellent and I loved it.
Fight me. šŖ¶āļøšš§”
https://i.redd.it/gdqigj6dgbse1.gif
FakeKiwi-@reddit
I hate how they solved the Rift through a musical
rebkos@reddit
*Grabs the sword and then remembers why we're here*
... Fine....
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Not necessarily disagreeing about the first one, but why do you think Ares/Xena didnāt happen before Gabrielle?
Also last one, what would have made her ready?
Just curious what you think!
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Oh I believe Ares and Xena were fwb before Gabrielle, as proven in Armageddon episodes. But I meant Xena would definitely be tempt back to her bad side with Ares constantly chasing her tail, influencing her, if Gabrielle was not there to help her redemption.
In Reckoning, Ties the Bind, and the Furies, Ares' plan would all succeed if Gabrielle was not there to guide her. Xena would fall from her path very easily with the god of war trying to ruin her at every turn. Thus, Ares x Xena is still plausible if Gabrielle wasn't there. Ares is 100% correct thinking Gabby is in the way š.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Okay interesting. I asked because personally I donāt think Ares and Xena were āloversā before because of Xena saying she had never seen what he looks like in The Reckoning. I tend to assume him being there in Armageddon Now has something to do with Hercules not existing. We know he was her mentor but I like the idea that he never presented himself to her physically until she started to be good. Because I think Gabrielle really has a point in Amphipolis Under Siege about Ares liking the good Xena. I think itās largely about the thrill of the chase for him, and he probably wouldnāt start to feel his version of love feelings for her if she hadnāt made him think about love, which she did by being the person she is now.
I completely agree that if it werenāt for Gabrielle, this version of Xena would be super easily tempted by Ares, but I just find it interesting that I think Gabrielleās influence is kind of part of it for Ares too even if he would never admit that. Their relationship is kind of boring if Xenaās just evil and does what Ares wants her to do.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Ares would never admit that he loves the good and redeemed Xena, since that would benefit him in absolutely no way. As the god of war, he wants Xena as his empress and nothing less. That's why he'd almost have this sibling-like rivalry with Gabrielle.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
I mean he does admit it, heās embarrassed about it but he even tells her that he loves her. He still wants her for the same reason that heās always wanted her, but Iām not sure if he could have thought of how he feels as love before Xena stopped being evil. I donāt think itās really because sheās good that he loves her, but good Xena is more complex and interesting to him and I think thatās part of why his feelings evolve from obsession to his version of love. He wants to make her evil again and the tempting her is part of whatās interesting to him. Thatās probably also why heās never all that upset at Gabrielle for her influence on Xena. Heās the god of war he loves conflict.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Well the main difference between Ares and Gabrielle, is that Ares sought to "fix" and mold Xena to his liking, while Gabrielle has to learn to love Xena in her entirety, even her dark past. So Ares love Xena, but does he love who Xena wants to be? I think he's chasing the old Xena he envision in his head. That is why despite how powerful he is, with Gabrielle around, he'd never have any true sway over Xena. Hence my pov of Ares' love.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Oh yeah I donāt mean that I think he wants her to stay as the good Xena, I mean that I think the fact that he would have to change her is part of what makes her so interesting to him. Like, I think he was her mentor for years and it probably wasnāt terribly eventful in terms of evolution of their relationship, regardless of any potential sexual aspect, but now that sheās good heās obsessed with turning her back and itās the like ultimate challenge, which is fun for him. And itās an impossible task because of Gabrielle, but what else is he gonna do with his time. Personally I donāt think he actually loves her the way mortals love each other, he feels his own version of love which seems to make him want to protect her and please her, but at the end of the day is entirely selfish. So ultimately my point is, if Gabrielle werenāt around I think Xena would easily choose to go back to Ares but then it also wouldnāt be that big of a deal for Ares, the dramatic pursuing and realization of āloveā is also a product of Gabrielle being around.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
I don't think Ares like the chase, he'd be happier if Xena just accept him already. But he's always proud that Xena manages to outsmart him, and beat his game. The better Xena is, the more he loves her. However I don't think it's necessary for Gabrielle to be around for his love to increase, or give him thrill of the chase, he simply love a powerful queen and Gabby's in the way š¤£
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
But if that were the case why wouldnāt he just do away with Gabrielle?
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
As for how Gabrielle can be ready. I think we deserve one more season of Gabrielle achieving her warrior mantle, since her development were put at halt during season 5. We deserve 1 more season of warrior Gabrielle, and one more season preparing before Tapert wanted to kill Xena for her sin at all.
And also, I don't enjoy the idea that the catching chakram implies Gabrielle have achieved Xena's equal in warrior prowess. Ready or not for the sake of plot, Gabrielle is not there to replace Xena's absence or become the new Xena. Or even become Xena's equal. Gabrielle is her own warrior, not Xena 2.0. So I don't accept the message of the finale, it doesn't make up for the cruel death, and it doesn't make up for leaving Gabrielle alone on her warrior journey without Xena š
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I agree Gabrielle has not achieved the warrior prowess of Xena the warrior princess. And I donāt think that Gabrielle should have the title of the new warrior princess. There is just something about Xena that makes her this super powerful character that is in some ways not achievable by others.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Oh yes, Gabrielle is the Amazon Queen, not Warrior Princess!
https://i.redd.it/ldrrwb6dnxre1.gif
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Okay yeah I agree with this. I think itās a super rushed ending and Gabrielle deserved more time dedicated to learning skills. I think sheās ready enough at the end to be okay on her own but I also think itās stupid that she has to be alone.
The chakram passing doesnāt bother me so much, Xena dying does so I do agree maybe that it shouldnāt have to happen. But I do like the idea that at some point Gabrielle is able to use the chakram, not to be Xena, but just because sheās reached warrior peak and is part of the Xena/Callisto family. But yeah as a symbol that Gabrielle is ready to go off on her own is bad.
Agent8699@reddit
Xenaās irrational and unrealistic obsession with Gabrielle maintaining her blood innocence was a literal death sentence for both of them (and many of their loved ones). If Xena had simply taught Gabrielle what she wanted to learn in a responsible way and supported her decision making, they both would have been spared a lot of grief.
Gabrielleās inability to believe that her Xena and the evil, feral warlord from so many stories (including those told to her by Xena herself) are the same person was delusional.
Xena and Gabrielleās relationship was unhealthy and they probably would have been happier if theyād separated, especially Gabrielle.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
But like both of those are part of why the story is so good!! There are unhealthy aspects to their relationship, of course there are, but they couldnāt be happier apart, Xena thought several times that Gabrielle might be better off without her and Gabrielle keeps coming back because she wants to be with Xena. They have to overcome unrealistic expectations for each other and learn how to be together and feel like they deserve to be together. Itās like in The Rheingold when Gabrielle says thereās a price to their relationship and Brunhilda says, āyeah one you love payingā, itās really good shit.
Agent8699@reddit
If itās no longer an unpopular opinion, then thatās fine by me! Iāve gotten into trouble expressing that opinion before.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Oh like to think that itās okay that their relationship is kind of unhealthy? I donāt know whatās popular, but for me thatās part of what makes it so compelling, I have no interest in watching perfect healthy non codependent relationships lol.
Agent8699@reddit
It also makes it more complex and compelling to me too. It might be that there are more wlw relationships on TV now, so itās not as critical that Xena and Gabrielle are held up as the shining, perfect and infallible example of two women in love.
I think a slightly similar shift has happened with Willow and Tara on Buffy as well, especially recognising the magical ā¦ assaults (?) by Willow every time she messed with Taraās memories, etc.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Yeah thatās a really good point! Personally I find Willow and Taraās relationship a bit too boring lol, even though they did have their issues in season six, I love them but I was not enthralled as I am with Xena and Gabrielle, but at the time it may have been a good choice. Part of the thing on Xena too though is that a show with two leads needs to have conflict and complexity between them at some point, otherwise whatās the point of having two of them.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Same, I was more into faith x buffy, but faith got written out too soon. Wish she was more involved, but I guess there can only be one vampire slayer ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
They both pay prices for the relationship and yep one they BOTH love paying bc they are in love and soulmates
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Yes of course! But with Xena I feel like itās even more obvious, she actively cannot live without Gabrielle, so she certainly wouldnāt be happier
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I think xena is just more outspoken throughout the series about it. Whereas Gabrielle is more physical about it. Xena lets her go several times and Gabrielle comes back running every time. And then in season six xena leaves her and Gabrielle goes running after her and then becomes really vocal about it in the entire final season.
Like I know gabby married perdicus in season two but Gabrielle would have definitely hated that after the honeymoon period faded.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Yeah but Xena lets her go because she thinks it will protect her, itās done out of misguided love. Gabrielle is definitely more physical and more casual about their relationship, and she also tells us time and again that she loves and wants to be with Xena. I think it comes down to that if Gabrielle didnāt really desperately want to be with Xena, she would honestly kind of deserve better, whereas Xena is lucky to have Gabrielle and she knows it. Of course Gabrielle could have never been happy with anyone else, itās a testament to the depth of her love that she stays with Xena and honestly barely looks back once sheās over the Perdicus moment of panic.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I donāt necessarily agree that Gabrielle deserved better. Yes xena made choices that hurt gabby. But gabby made a lot of choices that hurt xena. I donāt know how many people would put their life on the line and body on the line like xena did for Gabrielle. Xena quite literally was beaten half to death in Whoās Gurkan to protect Gabrielle.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
I donāt mean she deserves better than how Xena treats her (for the most part), just that Xena does have a point that being together is dangerous for Gabrielle and itās a situation she doesnāt necessarily need to be in, whereas Xena does need to be there and deserves to be there because itās her āredemptionā. But what makes it okay is that Gabrielle feels she does need to be there and actually wants to be there. Xena also needs her there, but she will always feel guilty and want to protect her.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Thank you for the clarification. Yes I agree.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Being protective of someone's blood innocence is completely rational though. I mean, we're all doing it. You're not gonna intentionally show death to people you care about. Plus, like Xena said, killing someone changes you, and it never goes away. And it's unfortunate that Gabrielle had to be manipulated toward her first kill. But I don't see how an intentional first kill could be any better. She'd simply go through her Joxer in the Convert moment. By protecting Gabrielle this long is noteworthy actually, and spared her 3 years of grief before Dahak happened.
And I definitely don't agree they'd be happier separated lol š. Go rewatch When Fates Collide!
Agent8699@reddit
But, in the Xenaverse where Gabrielle is travelling with Xena for the purpose of being like Xena, it is irrational.
Xena is attacked by those seeking to kill her every day, sometimes multiple times a day.
If Gabrielle is willing and (increasingly) able to defend herself against those seeking to kill her, then having her second guess herself and pull her punches during battle for fear of killing someone was irresponsible.
Not only did it physically endanger Gabrielle (as established multiple times, including ITADITH), but it also messed with her emotionally. So much of her self-worth and confidence was tied to Xenaās opinion of her and she knew that the main reason Xena had such a high opinion of her was because of her blood innocence. Thatās why Gabrielle killing for the first time was still negatively impacting Gabrielle all the way into season 6, including Legacy and THAB.
If Gabrielle had killed in the heat of battle defending herself or others, then I think she would have coped with it much better. She wouldnāt have become a wild, feral warlord like Xena feared. But, she also wouldnāt have been so afraid of losing herself in every battle.Ā
It would have been better for both of them. But, Xena was so obsessed with Gabrielle being some saintly, pure soul who could guide her on her path of redemption that she couldnāt bear to have that image challenged. And when it was destroyed in The Deliverer, Xena immediately started distrusting Gabrielle and Gabrielleās opinion about Hope, Ming Tien, etc.Ā
I think itās all emotionally compelling and makes the characters that much richer, but Xenaās obsession with Gabrielleās blood innocence was to both of their detriments.
As for being happier separated, well Xena would be dead, which apparently makes her ultimately happier since she chooses it over continuing to live with Gabrielle. And for Gabrielle, yes she would have been happier. It would have hurt to āleaveā Xena, but she could have worked through it - as evidenced by her emotional strength and resilience every time Xena died - and been all the happier for it. Ā
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I definitely donāt think either of them would be happier separated. The only reason Xena died in the end was bc it was a great ending for Tapart at the time for a real punch with the anticipation of bringing her back in a movie. So no she didnāt choose to stay dead bc it made her happier. In no circumstance does Xena feel happier about staying dead and leaving Gabrielle. Bc she doesnāt actually leave Gabrielle she just is dead and in ghost form stuck in a ālimboā world. That was only to āredeem herselfā however it didnāt make her happier. Did it somewhat take a weight off her shoulders.? Yes! You can see that when Xena ghosted away when the sunsets on the side of the Mountain with Gabrielle.
Yes Gabrielle may have gone on to do some wonderful things without Xena bc with Xena there she is somewhat in the shadow. Bc yet again Xena has a sort of compelling nature to her that draws the eye. She has more super human abilities and can do more than any mere mortal and like Beowulf said ā the greatest warriorā and like many others have said āthe greatest warrior the world has ever known.
Gabrielle may have thrived and done well but she would not necessarily be happier. She was happiest with Xena, the love of her life. You can see that. When she was reunited with Xena each time she died or when they were separated for any reason she is so much happier. She may be more in the limelight without Xena but it doesnāt make her better off. Love makes them both better off. They both made a huge sacrifice at the end.
Agent8699@reddit
At least back in the day, saying that Xena and Gabrielle had an unhealthy relationship would definitely result in swords being drawn š”ļøĀ
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
My sword is drawn and it's very sharp š”ļø /jk
LibertineDeSade@reddit
I have a few, but these are probably the two biggest for me.
Both Xena and Gabrielle are bisexual icons.
This one is going to get me crucified: HTLJ is a good show, the crossovers between the shows were good, and a lot is lost for [new] fans who ignore the OG show and just watch Xena.
Mrblorg@reddit
Xena got a warrior's death which was always going to be her end idk what show you were watching if you thought they'd grow old in an Amazon village.
A reboot is fine. Iron out the 10 years ago stuff, use the OG as a blueprint and have Lucy and Rene as queens or goddesses or something
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
But do you think that warrior death was respectable in AFIN tho?
Mrblorg@reddit
Head removed in one stroke, and by the leader not some footman? Yes lol
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
They kill her and hung her body up like she's a criminal, in no way is that a respectable treatment for our warrior princess! If she were to die, I'd rather her die in Greece as a hero.
Mrblorg@reddit
That's not her death, that's after. It would be worse in Greece.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
My meaning is they completely disrespect the warrior princess final living moment, and even worst after. I despise it personally, too cruel.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I agree the treatment of her afterwards is despicable
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I think if it was going to be her death, going out in a blaze of glory was it. She did that. She killed most of the army with the bomb she created with her chakram (the last throw of the chakram by her), shooting the arrows and killing many more, then her with the sword slashing through 100ās of batches of soldiers, all while being shot with arrows was quite literally mind blowing. That whole sequence was awesome. I wish there was some more hand to hand combat but overall it was great. And then at the end she sees the leader while mortally wounded and she stops and lets him kill her. She knew how he would do it too.
I donāt think them strapping her naked body up was appropriate by any means. That was disgusting. And I was pissed. He body deserves more respect. The most legendary warrior of her time and thatās what she gets after she diesā¦
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I mean I get it. Xena was so powerful that her end had to come at her own choosing I just wish it would have been on another way. Maybe a story that we had known or characters that we knew or somethingā¦
Mrblorg@reddit
Yeah but the dumb time skip
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
This is so true. I just wish we got something that touched our hearts more to feel for the characters. Bc I certainly did not feel anything for Akemi or those dumb villagers that got burned alive bc they attacked Xena. Maybe donāt attack the crazy drunk depressed warrior!
ImperfectShawlMaker@reddit
I love Send in the Clones.
jdpm1991@reddit
Me too!! This was also one of Alti's best post-season 4 appearances
ImperfectShawlMaker@reddit
And iirc the ending involved X & G riding away in a taxi & sharing some ?champagne?
Either way it was a cute episode
jdpm1991@reddit
I swear they wrote a couple of alternate endings in case A Friend in Need wasn't properly recieved.
Many Happy Returns
Send in the Clones
When Fates Collide all had good endings
FeedOk8085@reddit
Xena never allowed Gabrielle to develop to her full potential. š¤
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
lol she allowed her to blossom and flourish. The only reason gabby never came to her full potential in some viewers eyes is due to the fact Xena outshines her. It just is a fact. Anyone that has ever met Xena describes her as the legendary warrior princess or the best warrior the world has knownā¦ Xena just is that one central force that is hard to out do. Even with people who are better than her when she meets them (mālila, cyanne, ceaser (warfare for ceaser not combat) ) she ends up being better than them bc she takes what they teach her and perfects it. Gabrielle has the potential to be great just not like Xena. Gabrielle has many talents and is very fierce in her own right and she earned that!
curseblock@reddit
Idk if it's an unpopular opinion, but I think Joxer is the most underrated character. He's so nuanced and compelling.
meroboh@reddit
I šÆ agree with this. All you have to do is look at his serious moments. After X&G were crucified, after he killed for the first time etc. Joxer was actually a character with a lot of depth. I wish they had delved into it more, but what we have speaks volumes.
curseblock@reddit
Thank you for getting it š„¹
Also, he gets shit on by X&G all the time, and it never makes him bitter. At the end of The Quill is Mightier, when Gabby is like "Lol, what if I was in love with you for real" and he's just silent and puts his feelings in a box.
He might be the character who knows himself the best aside from Xena, and he's definitely got more integrity than Gabby who betrays Xena because she's jealous of someone Xena was indebted to.
And his complicated relationship to his family (brothers especially) gives him so much depth.
meroboh@reddit
That scene in Quill broke me, honestly.
I actually donāt think he knows himself well at all, he seems to be in a perpetual state of struggle around this. Itās very common in traumatized people. IIRC itās canon that his father beat the three brothers. At the very least we know Jet did and Joxer wasnāt protected from that.
We see this in Joxer a lot, but especially in the beginning when heās really pitting up a macho bravado front, courting Callistoās army, etc. Joxer looks to other people to tell him who he is. I recognize it because I used to be that way too.
But that doesnāt make him any less sincere, heās just a picture of human struggle, flawed like we all are, and his soft insides are bruised.
Before anyone says it, yes, I know he is fictional.
curseblock@reddit
I definitely agree with you. I should've clarified that I don't think he was capable of giving other people insight into his feelings, but I think he'd be one good therapy sesh away from having a pretty comprehensive view on his whole deal š
His big struggle is that he's putting on his Mighty act because he's not leaning into what's truly heroic about him, which is his vulnerability and compassion. He loves his family even though they were awful to him, he loves X&G even though they're awful to him... He has an idea of where he belongs, but nobody is around to support him the way he needs.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
In what way
curseblock@reddit
What do you mean?
Owl_Queen101@reddit
You say heās nuanced and compelling Iām asking how
CheersToLive@reddit
I think curseblock meant that Joxer is largely misunderstood as a character and by peopel within the show. His kindness is always overlook by his lack of warrior talent. Otherwise he has a very brave heart underestimated by many.
curseblock@reddit
Thanks for being the one person who seems to get it šš»
CheersToLive@reddit
Well, there's gotta be some reason why Joxer is Xena and Gabby's best friend š
curseblock@reddit
Have you not watched the show when he's in it?
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Iāve seen it twice and so are you going to explaining
curseblock@reddit
You should just watch it and come to your own conclusion.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Lolol bffr just admit it you have no idea what youāre talking about
_CriticalThinking_@reddit
Well can you explain?
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
OK so fill me in here. Are you being sarcastic by saying Joxer is "nuanced and compelling" or do you really believe it? Because, if you really believed it, why won't you give examples as to *when* he was compelling. The only time I thought he was something more than silly old Joxer is in For Him the Bell Tolls and there he's under a spell, so not his true self. I never actually disliked Joxer except when I read on one of these Xena posts that he was (apparently) masturbating when watching the young Amazons bathing.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Fair question, which wasn't answered.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Exactly bcus thereās no answer lol. He wasnāt nuanced or compelling
Owl_Queen101@reddit
I think Gabby recognizes her power over Xena and manipulates it to her benefit AND I think sheās responsible for Solans death
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
I would say Xena definitely manipulates Gabrielle at times.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
In what way? And did it lead to the death of her child?
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Personally, Xena's adamant confidence trying to execute Gabrielle's Hope the first day that baby was born, was kinda whack. You never ask a woman to kill her own child ever. This force Gabrielle to give up her baby, likely leaving her to die. That's one of the worst and only manipulation, by literal threat, Xena has done to Gabrielle (in memory).
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Ummm bcus that baby killed like 4 ppl and it wasnāt even a day old Xena literally said that isnāt a baby but a vessel got evil.ā So Xena didnāt ask her this to be cruel but to ensure the safety of humanity (literally)
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
It's a baby š¤·š»āāļø. Killing it would not be the first thought that cross my mind. And it certainly wouldn't be Gabrielle's either.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Sure but the reality is that baby killed 4 ppl and Xena is VERY smart. She figured it out. She knew it was hard for her so sheād do it. Point is by her not doing it lead to Xenas son dying and Xena asking GABBY for forgiveness. Which is why I say gabby is a manipulator and knows her power over Xena.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I think Xena should have given hope more time to convince gabby of her evil ways. But would it have changed Gabbyās mind? Idk but gabby does usually follow the greater good so maybe she would have been convinced had she been given more time
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I think they both manipulate each other
daryl772003@reddit
Like any coupleĀ
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Yes I think Gabrielle does the same and I think Gabrielle is responsible for solans death. And I donāt know how xena forgave her
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Are we responsible for what our children do? Even if there was definitive proof that your child was evil, could *you* kill them? I think Hope's evilness could have been tempered by the love of her mother.
10Panoptica@reddit
Always or ever? If a parent creates a dangerous situation or puts their child in a position where they can do harm, that's on them. E.g. When a toddler shoots someone because their parent left a loaded gun laying around, that's obviously the parent's fault.
I agree that Hope probably could have been better if she'd been raised by Gabrielle. However, it was also a foolish and unnecessary risk to tell her exactly where Solon was hidden. She could've hidden her somewhere else.
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Agreed, Hope was condemned from the word go. So I feel Xena has some responsibility in the ultimate outcome actually too.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I think if xena hadnāt made that decision for hope to die and tried to kill her immediately in the same episode that gabby gave birth and let gabby see how evil hope was and let hope be with them for a few episodes, I t think gabby would have seen how evil hope was. So I think xena was a bit overzealous and rushing gabby to see the ālightā. Xena should have played that a little more cool and xena could have tried to have gabby realize over time.
stardustmelancholy@reddit
Hope was already murdering people the week she was born.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Oh I agree she was evil I just think gabby needed to have some more proof.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
As would any mother. Gabrielle's protection of Hope is completely natural. If we reprimand Gabrielle for that we should serve the same energy to Xena for Livia.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Agreed.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Which makes in an "unpopular" theory which is the purpose of this post! So win-win.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Well I think that comparing xena world to our world is a bit extreme. Bc itās an Ancient Greece/ fantasy world . And let me clarify I donāt believe she is responsible 100% I believe she bares some responsibility. She sent hope to Kaleipusā hut. I feel she should have thought that through more.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Without going again into the whole "who is responsible" debate that happened at the time the series was first aired and, I expect, has probably been raised many times since, with newer fans, I believe that in any relationship both parties are responsible, one way or another, for the outcomes that affect both parties.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I agree they both did things they did that played out the way it did and have responsibility for what happened. I think if xena gave gabby more time to see hopeās evil ways that would have played out better. That was a major error on xenaās part. I mean come one she was chasing after gabby like a mad women telling her to kill her kid.
But I believe that Gabrielle sending hope to kaleipusā hut was a major error.
_CriticalThinking_@reddit
They can both be blamed, Gabrielle was hurt because Xena was absorbed by her desire for revenge. Put yourself in Gabrielle shoes, the trauma she's just endured and she'd have to accept to kill the kid she just birthed. Maybe the kid would have turned good, we don't know. Then, Gabrielle lying ultimately killed Solan. She also had to forgive Xena for beating the shit outta her.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
How many times did xena get beat the hell out of because of Gabbyās decisions?
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Which is what I said in all my replies
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Gabrielle does have a lot of sway over Xena! And if you do wouldn't you use it towards your partner too? No harms done.
Except in Solan case, that was entirely on Hope not Gabrielle's.
CellsInterlinked-_-@reddit
I think Hudson Leick should've placed Lucy as Xena permanently. Is that unpopular? Idk I don't spend a lot of time on here
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
It's so unpopular nobody ever spoke of it. I definitely disagree. Xena wouldn't be Xena without Lawless. And Hudson had expressed her displeasure playing Xena.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I agree. There is no Xena without Lucy. The reason Hudsonās Xena interpretation is even spoken of as great is because she literally did Lucy as Xena. Lucy coached her the entire time and when Lucy wasnāt there Renee coached her on how to play Xena as Lucy. It was an almost mimic of Lucy. Which actors can do. It was impressive though and wonderfully done. Her tone of her voice did time look twice to see if Lucy maybe dubbed the voice over but it wasnāt. Just like Lucyās interpretation of Hudsonās Callisto was amazing. The way she can move her fingers and over annunciation of her vowels like Hudson was great.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I think that the bitter suite was solan trying to reach to xena to see that she still loves Gabrielle. And to get xena to forgive Gabrielle. If you notice Gabrielle is put in danger three times and xena each time realizes she still loves her and she goes to help or save her. Except the time she did kill her but then she instantly regrets it.
Gabrielle says they need to put the past behind them but never does she have to admit to the stuff she did to xena. Itās xena at the end that sings to solan and Gabrielle and apologizes. Not Gabrielle to xena.
Thatās why I think it was solans attempt to reach xena and get them back together.
maximillian2@reddit
Interesting theory. That whole solan plot was a trip. Different vibe from other episodes.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Hey user, just so you know suspended account get their comment automatically removed by reddit, unless the sub moderator approves. And the user you reply to usually never receives a notification of your comment. Just letting you know since I've seen a bunch of suspended account on this subreddit fsr.
maximillian2@reddit
Is my account suspended, what youāre saying? My gosh I tried to work through this already lol. Thanks for letting me know
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
I recommend either send an appeal to reddit admin or just make a new account at this point. I've notice accounts who are suspended are forever suspended sometimes.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Yes it definitely was some Alice and wonderland typish stuff. Very different vibe but I loved it.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
I love this theory, my new headcanon. You're not getting anyone raising their pitchforks at this sweet theory.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Also Iām not saying that Xena owed Gabrielle an apology more than gabby owed Xena one. I think that this was solanās way of helping his mother find the love in her heart and show her that she still is in love with Gabrielle and that they are meant to be together
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Aww well thank you.
I think thatās why Gabrielle also apologizes a few times after the bitter suite in other episodes because she never really addressed it directly to Xena. Even though Xena has already forgiven Gabrielle.
frozenish@reddit
I liked Caesar. I wish he would have been in more episodes.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
This!āš»
Can you believe how shocked I was finding out Caesar was a detested villain in the show?? I thought Karl Urban did a wonderful performance, and the Roman episodes were some of Xena's best. You can easily see Tapert's love for Roman history shining through this episodes pre-Spartacus.
Giving Xena mortal adversary, and one related to her past no less, was a great additional depth added to her character. As bad Xena she can overthrow a country, as redeemed Xena she can only take the punching for the greater good.
I was always looking forward to those Rome episodes. It gives further moral dilemma to Gabrielle too. Her unconditional belief in the greater goods, and how far that extends in war.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Ohhhh I love the ceaser episodes. Karl did amazing in his portrayal. And Lucyās portrayal of Xenaās hate for ceaser is felt through the screen
NoReach1699@reddit
He is fabulous. The rome episodes are among the best for sure. Didn't know people hated him
Meushell@reddit
I would have loved if Xena and he and come to terms, and he became a sort of anti-heroā¦with his death being more tragic.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
A hero in one story is a villain to another imo. I don't think he was ever an anti-hero even in history. It's debatable tbh.
Meushell@reddit
Part of why he was killed was because he was popular among commoners because he treated them better than his peers did, and that made him a political threat.
Sure, one could make a list of all his faults, but many of them would be judging him by todayās standards.
Warrioress_@reddit
Gabrielle's little s1 orange outfit was her best outfit š«” (genuinely I love it so much š)
Valuable_Detail_4531@reddit
To me theyāre best friends instead of lovers (and Iām gay š) donāt know why, maybe because they only aired the earlier seasons in my country and I didnāt get the subtext idk? Iāve seen all seasons now and even the cast said theyāre lovers, but somehow my mind still sees them as best friends who love eachother very very deeply
_CriticalThinking_@reddit
They kissed several times tho
Valuable_Detail_4531@reddit
Small pecks tbh no decent liplocking
Historical_Spot_4051@reddit
I never saw them that way either, and I almost feel guilty for it. Like Iām taking something from the people who found it meaningful to see that representation.
justanothertfatman@reddit
Xena ||dying at the end|| was dumb as fuck.
armlessphelan@reddit
Xena is a bisexual icon, not a lesbian.
NoReach1699@reddit
Agreed
Mrblorg@reddit
Agree. Everyone was Bi
Ordinary_Studio9320@reddit
This isnāt an opinion I hold 100%, especially since every relationship is incredibly complex, but I often think about how we love to label Xena and Gabrielleās relationship as "true love" and "soulmates, however, if we look at it through a more real-world lens, it was actually quite toxic at times.
Considering the age gap between them and how much more experienced Xena was in everything, you could even argue that there were elements of grooming involved. And when Gabrielle started "standing up for herself," it was often a form of manipulation because she saw it as her only means of defense. Maybe by the very end of the show, we could say their relationship became healthy, but they both did unforgivable things to each other along the way.
Of course, people make mistakes, but if only one person in a relationship is mentally stable and has a solid sense of self-worth, that relationship wouldnāt last in real life. And in the end, Xena still chose her own redemption over staying with her soulmateāwhich was probably the best thing she couldāve done for Gabrielle, too.
Iād love to know what happened to Gabrielle afterward. I feel like she never fully developed into her true self next to Xena; itās no coincidence that she kept jumping between different ideologies. And donāt get me wrongāI love them, theyāre adorable together, but there are so many questionable actions on both sides when you watch the show with a more mature perspective.
NoReach1699@reddit
I would not call their relationship abusive, bit I believe that yes, Gabrielle will thrive without Xena
NoReach1699@reddit
And AFIN is one of the best episodes of the series
NoReach1699@reddit
I absolutely love Gabrielle to pieces, from Sins of The Past to AFIN.
Overall_Sandwich_671@reddit
There should have been more episodes without Gabrielle.
Feesh8@reddit
A little late to this party, but I got one thatāll ruffle some feathers.
Argo is the true hero of Xena: Warrior Princess.
Come at me!
BlueSky1776@reddit
I donāt care for the subtext.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Feesh8@reddit
I crack up every time you use this pic š¤£š¤£š¤£
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Would you prefer it to have been maintext? "Cos that was never going to happen in a show in the 90's.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Literally
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Maybe not super controversial these days but one of mine is that however Xena may or may not feel about Ares (and some of the other men) is way more subtextual than how she feels about Gabrielle
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
No no, I'm letting you cook cause I actually agree. There way more proof of Ares x Xena than Xena x Gabrielle sometimes. But I firmly believe Taperts and the other intend to set up Gabby and Xena from the start.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Oh wait I think maybe this doesnāt read right. What I mean is that Xena/Gabrielle is pretty main text compared to how they portray how Xena feels about Ares. Aresā feelings are treated with classic direct language. But everything that could indicate that Xena is attracted to him in return is actually not really provided by the text. They even use the same conventions as Gabrielle, attraction to Ares is cloaked in temptation back to her dark side and you can choose to interpret the attraction as part of it or not. I think that they do intend to imply that Xena is somewhat tempted by Aresās offer in full, but the show doesnāt actually tell you that until season 6. So my point is that Xena/Ares shippers are actually working off much more subtext versus Xena/Gabrielle which starts as subtext and then is more and more literally written into the main text.
GRS_89@reddit
Gabrielle in her India arc is like every white kid who takes a gap year in India to find themselves before going to college, and just as obnoxious and oblivious as all those kids lol. (This is my pet peeve sorry).
The Way of Peace wasn't necessarily wrong, it just wasn't right for Gabrielle and that's perfectly okay but fans conflate The Way with Gabby's destiny too much.
Xena doesn't deserve to be forgiven for a lot of her sins.
Livia was a literal spoiled little princess and that's what made her dark, not the fighting or being under Ares wing.
Ioalus could potentially be Gabby's secondary soulmate because the show clearly is not about monogamy anyway.
bassoontennis@reddit
Kinda agree with all but Livia, was she spoiled yes she was basically raised as an elite however, she has the soul of Callisto and the dark side of Xena, this coupled with the fact that Ares saw this sort of āfireā in her made her a perfect target for being so evil. I also get the soul of Callisto was supposed to be good now, but again she wasnāt raised by Xena so She had the Callisto treatment where outside forces shaped her good/evil meter.
Now that first point you said my god that is so true I wish I could upvote twice, I just did not Like the India arc that much. A few good moments though.
GRS_89@reddit
No but Callisto's soul is now good and pure and that's what Livia has. So imagine if she wasn't raised to be so elite and privileged, she would still be raised rich but she's also raised to be aware of it. She's taught empathy and compassion and she's taught to fight. She's shown to be a leader but not through fear, but by being the kind of person people want to follow. Would that Livia still attract Ares? And if she did, would she turn him down? And if she didn't because the fire is still within her no matter who she is, would she have become as evil if she said yes to Ares but was this different version of herself who wouldn't get swayed by Ares because the power she has, is completely different from the dark power he's promising her? In this scenario, she would also receive more love, care, and attention, so Ares couldn't manipulate her insecurities either. He couldn't say you're not my warrior princess and I can't love you because you're weak, because she would spit back that she is beloved by her own people and a god's love can't surpass that. It's kind of like growing up to be the best version of both Xena and Gabby, isn't it? The darkness and fire is there, but she had a better chance at living with it.
And yes to the entire arc lol. I think the only moment I liked is when Krishna tells Xena her destiny and then the battle with Alti but I remember being little and confused because mehndi doesn't have magic power. For context, I'm Pakistani and I always hated mehndi as a kid and I remember getting it applied and running around all ooga booga to my sister because I thought I could shoot golden light from my hands (I was ten and exceptionally stupid). Imagine my disappointment when my sister told me that there's no such thing as magic mehndi and I was just stuck with smelly hands for like a week! š
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Nah I completely agree. That Gabrielle Indian arc was pure cringe for me š¬. Idk what wisdom she gained, but it certainly didn't come from Hinduism.
GRS_89@reddit
My sister used to be really into fandom and the Merwolf Geocities group back then, and she explained to me that in NZ where they're filming, there are a lot of Indians or non Indians who practice Hinduism and the show is bringing this in because they want to show their respect. That's literally the only reason I've never turned against this arc completely, because I understand it didn't come from the kind of superficial and vapid Global North mentality of reducing South Asia to "India is yoga and spirituality". And I think that's why it's cringe but it's not disrespectful or offensive. But ofc it's still very cringe haha
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
The last three there I agree with.
Flicksterea@reddit
Ares was an asshole who manipulated Xena and didn't truly care about her.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Ares definitely care for Xena though. He even gave up his godhood for Eve.
trashythirst@reddit
at the end of the day, he was a god. and gods donāt have the capacity to care for a mortal the way mortals are used to. he liked her because she suited his goals, thatās all. when she didnāt serve his needs, he no longer liked her.
Flicksterea@reddit
Eve wasn't Xena... And I respectfully don't agree. He manipulated her plenty of times. Not exactly a hallmark indicator of caring for someone. But hey this is unpopular opinions we're sharing! š¤£
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Right. OK. You're wanting us to come up with unpopular theories in relation to the XWP tv series. How about Xena never loved Hercules. She did so much better when she was out of his shadow.
trashythirst@reddit
i donāt think anyone thinks xena loved hercules š¤£š¤£
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Was Xena ever in Hercules' shadow? Pretty sure by her first appearance she already outshined him by a large margin š!!
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Perhaps my wording was wrong. She DID outshine him in all cases IMO. What I meant was that whenever he appeared on XWP she seemed to be playing a support character, in her own tv series! Perhaps male egos had to be taken into consideration, or, as others might say, if it hadn't been for HTLJ, there wouldn't have been a Xena.
daryl772003@reddit
I'd call that a popular and correct theoryĀ
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
YESSSS!!!!!!
RedJacket2020s@reddit
I've got many downvotes the other for posting that Ares was overused on Xena. He appears way too much on the show in my opinion, having so many other characters
jdpm1991@reddit
Xena is a hypocrite during the Eve story line and thought she was a psycho during the Hope story line when she was a child (before she killed Solan)
11xomr11@reddit
Not my unpopular opinion, but one of a family member that I find funny. There is nothing gay about the show. This family member loves Xena and has watched it multiple times yet says the show is not gay...
ReCyclops83@reddit
One of my favorite quotes from Season 4: Gabrielle, I wanted to thank you! I never would have met Paulina if it wasn't for you! In fact, the two of you made me realize something deep down about myself that... I guess I always knew, but... just didn't dare admit. Yes... I'm a... thespian.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Bcus the show really isnāt the last season really was the only season they really shoved it in our faces
_CriticalThinking_@reddit
Xena and Gabrielle kiss each other through Autolycus way before season 6
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
Did you somehow manage to not watch season 2-4?
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Does your family know gay people or anything about the gay lifestyle at the time? Just wondering.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I completely agree with the Gabrielle was not ready. She is not the new xena.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Except Xena thought she obviously was, otherwise why would she have given her the chakram? Remember she asked Gabrielle at the beginning of that episode how she would resolve the issue of the town burning, and although Xena said she would have done it differently, Gabrielle achieved the same result. Besides, she needs *something* to cut fish with 'cos her good cutting knife is probably still in that warlord, four seasons ago!
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Ha! Yeah I think that Rob tapart fumbled that ball with all of that just a tad. Remember this is the episode that killed xena off. lol
Gabrielle did it in her own way. She isnāt xena. Iām sorry but Gabrielle could not pull off half the stuff xena could.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Agreed, she can't currently do all the things that Xena did. But then she hasn't had ten plus years of warlording and killing now has she? Doesn't mean she hasn't earned the right to have the chakram, which, by the way, she manages to throw and catch. Not many others have done that. Think of it as a legacy.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Oh i definitely see that she threw it and caught Callisto and livia/eve did as well. I am fine with all of them doing it. Doesnāt mean Callisto and livia/eve are deserving of it being their weapon. Just as I just donāt believe it being Gabrielleās weapon. Itās the warriors princessā weapon. Itās xenaās weapon. I believe that xena did leave a portion of her legacy behind in Gabrielle I just donāt like the chakram being Gabrielleās.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Kind of like I could never see Xena using sais, because they're Gabrielle's weapon. I get it.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Yeah and it also hurts Xena died. Ya know. Her head chopped off and then the showrunners want to shove Xena out the way and say gabby is the new Xena and taking her mantle and her weapon all in the same breath. Makes me cry every time.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
I prefer to think of it as remembering Xena and what she'd taught her. After all, in the very first episode she said she wanted to be a warrior like Xena and six years later that happened, with Xena's blessing.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Yes I do see it as that in some ways. She does become a warrior in her own right. I always believed that. Just not on Xenaās level.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Yes she does need something to cut fish with lol
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Who says she has to be the new Xena? She was her own person, Gabrielle, and would be her own kind of warrior. And achieve probably way more than Xena ever could have in different ways.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I agree that Gabrielle is her own person. I just donāt think she is the ānew xena ā or the ānew warrior princessā there is only one like Xena. Yes I also believe Gabrielle is a great warrior in her own right. I just donāt believe that she canāt match Xenaās abilities. I also donāt believe that Gabrielle can master the way that xena uses the techniques that xena taught her the way that xena does. But I do believe Gabrielle can achieve a lot and do a lot of good on her own.
CyaneSpirit@reddit
Gabrielle in later seasons is a hypocrite.
_CriticalThinking_@reddit
More people would hate Ares if he was ugly
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Tbf, the same can be said about all the evil characters in Xena. Would Callisto be as loved if she was not played by Hudson? Personally, the writing only did 50%, the other 50% were thanks to the actors.
flynnigan14@reddit
I don't know about that. I think Callisto is a really good villain. If a conventionally "unattractive" woman were to play her but with the same acting chops as Hudson, I'd like her just as much.
I can't stand Ares, no matter how he looks.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
But I would say the same about Ares as a villain, he was the god of war ofc he'd be the bad guy. And his love for Xena stems from his adoration for her past. It also serves as a good reminder of Xena's bad.
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
I know I would have definitely despised him more if he hadn't been played by Kevin Smith.
Icecold_Antihero@reddit
There needed to be more musical episodes, especially since they decided to travel.
Would like to see a bit more "reincarnated" time (I forgot their names and I'm lazy) without clip show.
Joxer was the real hero all along.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Enjoying the Uber episodes is an unpopular opinion indeed! Personally, I think they're fun and overhated.
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
ROTFLMAO Joxer is not the real hero. I wouldn't watch tv series where he was represented that way. He had his good points, and his bad points, and he could be a good friend, but he could also be a very annoying friend. We all have them!
Icecold_Antihero@reddit
I see no downside to a miniseries.
acebender@reddit
I don't like Ares
RotaVitae@reddit
I don't either. He's a disgusting sleeze who pursues the same person across lifetimes because he has endless patience. Despite the fact that she has a permanent soulmate, he refuses to leave her alone. And because he's hot we're supposed to excuse it. He's a predator who would have been jailed or killed by Xena long ago if he were human. He should have died in the Twilight.
Fight me.
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
I donāt mind how he is in the show (with the exception of a few season 5 moments), I think itās kind of a cool aspect that heās a god who acts like a god and Xena knows how to use him. I just find the fandom obsession with him uncomfortable and agree itās only because heās attractive. I also agree the balance thing is dumb, but I remind myself Xena really only keeps him around because heās useful, and once she decides itās not worth it he gets locked in a tomb for 2000 years and the world does not become unbalanced.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
LOL at Xena locking him in a tomb for 2000 years š
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
I won't fight you! I agree. Kevin Smith is too well-loved they basically reimagine his character to pay tribute to him!
However, if you look at Ares as less of a man, and more of a force of nature, you might find his role as a god necessary. I don't think Xena should kill Ares, I don't even think Xena should kill the gods at all! That's my unpopular take. The twilight plot never should've happen to that extent!
GRS_89@reddit
Well you've just ruined Ares for me thanks a lot ššš
acebender@reddit
Exactly! You get me. I was confused when I got to this sub and saw so many people love him.
Andro801@reddit
Gabrielle annoys me
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
brandnewbanana@reddit
I donāt like Joxer. He is such a creep sometimes
_CriticalThinking_@reddit
And why is he always here, he always pops up out of nowhere
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Don't you know, the entire ancient Greece in Xena actually took place in a backyard forest and beach in New Zealand! Ofc Joxer would be there, Greece was apparently a very small country! Don't forget how fast you can travel to China and Japa on horse!
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
I have to say this was a great post because its been genuinely interesting to see people's different points of view on certain characters/events in the show. I think the fact there are so many viewpoints says something about the impact of the series that it can cause such discussion/debate.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
I'm actually surprised how much traction this post received. I wrote this as a one off thing and then logged off, and here I'm staring at hundred+ comments to read š
I'm so glad people still have much to say about this show. I love it!
koiivy@reddit
Defending Hercules as a character has me feeling like this a lot lol. I think he is a great part of the Xenaverse and a special and important person to Xena.
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Hercules is also a great show and I always loved Herc as a character and I find it a shame that the series is often trashed today or thrown away from discussion purely because of Kevin Sorbo. I wish more people would give it a shot.
koiivy@reddit
I feel the same way. I just recently watched the entire series for the first time and Iām glad I gave it a chance it was surprisingly good! His character does not deserve the hate. Itās so odd, he is a character that the shows main character (Xena) loves but the fandom usually hates. Itās strange.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
I don't know either. Politics numbs the mind. I personally am capable of separating the art from the person. Plus, Sorbo didn't write Hercules lol, the entire franchise is propped up by Tapert and hundreds of other hardworking talents. If Hercules was played by any other tall handsome blonde, it'd be the same decent show. And same decent character. I like Hercules, it gives off season 1 and season 2 Xena vibes, which is overall my favorite adventure vibe in the show.
Minerva1387@reddit
I liked the Xena Ares dynamic more than Xena and Gabrielle. He was always trying to win over and get Xena just for him to legitimately fall for her.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Me too girl, me too. I think Ares as a character felt overall more dynamic since he's a god of war, silenced by a mortal woman. It gives a compelling narrative. But I also love the fact that he'll never achieve that love with Xena, since he is the god of war. Awful in every way and will always lose to Gabrielle.
Meushell@reddit
Xena, Gabrielle, and Joxer are all soul mates.
Xena has no business trying to murder one-day-old Hope. Even though sheās clearly older, physically and mentally, than a day, sheās still a baby. Real babies can accidentally hurt themselves or other people (like pulling at a dangling earring or scratching). Imagine one with godly powers?
daryl772003@reddit
Gabrielle was ready!
SubterraneanShadows@reddit
Ares is 100% Xena's father. It's greek mythology, people.
AvocadoPizzaCat@reddit
The fact i don't like Callisto and that i feel the screaming of her character is wholely unnecessary.
mind you, she is pretty well written i can give her props for that even with glaring plotholes. and the screaming might have more to do with my audio sensitivity and the fact i feel it doesn't represent real mental health like everyone says it does.
Ancient-Law-3647@reddit
I love the character and I get that like the tie in is that she worked to become a warrior like Xena the parallels the show is trying to convey with her scream being her own twisted take on Xenaās iconic war cry.
But Iām ngl I wish the writers or producers would have done something else instead of a scream to draw that parallel.
Jayne_Purchase@reddit
This! Hudson did an amazing job portraying Callisto, donāt get me wrong. But there was so much room for depth there. I hate that they made her an edge lord. And the screaming, while effective, doesnāt show the full descent into madness. When the Furies cursed Xena with madness, there were moments of lucidity. There was a mental struggle. I would have loved to see more of that from Callisto.
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
I thought there was plenty of depth to Callisto that Hudson brought to the role as well as moments of lucidity and true poignancy so I would disagree on that subject.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I like how Lucy went from like stupid crazy (like stooges ) to like a real mental babbling and real insanity. I preferred once she lost the stooges crazy and moved into a more serious insanity
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Gabrielle for me is the real hero of the series.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
I definitely got that feel from you. Which I love to see the different ideas. She definitely went on the more traditional heroās journey.
flynnigan14@reddit
I don't really like Joxer...
lasswantstofight@reddit
Gabrielle is insufferable after season 3.
CheersToLive@reddit
Really?? I thought Gabrielle only got better after cutting her hair.
lasswantstofight@reddit
Yeah. Overall I like Gabrielle, and I like how she became stronger as the series went on, but she became judgy, self righteous and self important. Although Xena is right 99% of the time, Gabrielle constantly criticized her decisions. I liked her better when she was the one person who didn't hold Xena's "dark side" against her.
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Actually in complete contrast I find Xena unbearable at times in the later seasons due to a lot of her hypocrisy (especially if you compare the Eve situation to Hope) and her judgement of people like Callisto and Najara when she was a borderline psychopath herself when she was the Destroyer of Nations. Also the fact she never really apologises for trying to murder Gabrielle (singing a song about forgiveness isn't quite enough) yet Gabrielle has to apologise about China way more than once and even has to go through a series of trials later for it. I think Xena got let off very easy a lot of the time for things she did while others were really judged.
Firm_Introduction937@reddit
Gabby almost got xena killed over jealousy!!!
CheersToLive@reddit
https://i.redd.it/9p4a7sr2pore1.gif
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