Why some of the redditors here in Linux related subs are so toxic?
Posted by realxeltos@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 302 comments
This a rant of sorts.
I am a new Linux user. And I face many issues. I post them here(reddit) to get answers. But I have noticed a theme. Any time I post any complaint. There is at least one guy going " it's all open source, why don't you fix the issue / code yourself and submit it?" or "why don't you go back to windows"
What?
I am a general ordinary user. I am ever so grateful for the free software that I am given. But that does not mean there isn't any issue. I AM facing an issue or There is a missing feature which I feel is totally common sense not to have. Or compared to windows, some things feel too complicated for no apparent reason. About going back to windows, I dual boot but as my current projects go (Django) many features are restrictive on windows. For example, redis has no windows client, I have to run WSL and many times it does not work as intended on windows.
Some issues I face while coming from windows:
Desktop shortcuts : shortcuts are so useful, I can have a number of vs code projects and I don't feel like opening them every time from open folder from vs code, on windows it was easy, just edit the shortcut for the project so it will directly open in the said project. Or context menus, having 7zip or 'send to' available when you right click on something is very useful. I can send files to my phone using quick share by right clicking the file. There are some other features I'd like to have too. Is it so wrong to have some wishful thinking?
Today I posted in Ubuntu subreddit about thumbnails of images not getting created until you visit said folder. And yep. There is one guy telling me to "why don't you do it yourself? " Yeah buddy, if I had the knowledge and skill to do that, I wouldn't have posted here.
Please people, not everyone is a c++ / Rust systems developer. Some people just want to use it as a daily driver and not face issues or inconveniences which can be categorised as common sense or we are so used to that we wish that Linux had same feature.
LBTRS1911@reddit
You're not wrong. Welcome to Linux. Don't give up, there are some good people around.
You have to understand that Reddit is full of young people who are insignificant for the most part. Their ability to be an online tough-guy ,because they have some knowledge of Linux, is all they have. They couldn't act like they do in the real world because someone would kick their ass, so they act tough online and give others a hard time.
fiveht78@reddit
It’s not just young people, and I say that as an old timer.
Open-source is full of talented developers/coders who are very good at, well, coding and developing, but not always good at gaining the perspective that just because they have the skill to whip up code for any odd issue they find means that everyone can.
Again, I’ve been in the community since 1996, and it’s always been like this. There are well known members of the community who are notorious for having very little patience, and they’re almost all older than I am.
Not to say nobody is nice. Lots of people are. More that by the nature of the job/community, interpersonal skills aren’t always essential to the goal so you get a very varying gradient. That, and it’s often a thankless job. There’s no excuse for assholery, but it does wear you down after a while.
LBTRS1911@reddit
I hear you but the "old timers" don't hang our on reddit for the most part. You don't see the "talented developers/coders" in r/linux or r/linux4noobs. Reddit is a lot of young people.
leafandloaf@reddit
That's true but what he's pointing out is worth pointing out.
Especially considering that some of those old-timers will be considered an example to some of the people here in reddit.
teepoomoomoo@reddit
The irony of this post is palpable.
xdblip@reddit
How so?
Responsible_Owl6797@reddit
i think he sounds a little bit like he thinks he deserves stuff to be fixed, because you know. everything that's not "common sense" by his standards is a bug.
but you know what?
the forums need people like him and he needs the forum.
this is the way it is, was and will be
blackcain@reddit
I don't see that. I think they are saying that at times this community reacts with hostility when they are asking for solutions. Yes, not everything you can do as you could do in windows but it's important to make them understand that this is community driven software and it takes time to bridge that but also it needs to make sense.
Responsible_Owl6797@reddit
yeah. but whoever doesn't see the benefit in learning to use computers better and easier, is not the timesink. may it be in a forum or at work. most of his questions are one google search away.
Seaweed_Widef@reddit
You are pretty naive to think that only young people are toxic
Plan_9_fromouter_@reddit
It's just that Reddit's 'user profile' tends to be younger than Baby Boom and even Gen X. So here one can often feel the youth.
LBTRS1911@reddit
You must not have read the post...I didn't say "only young people are toxic". I said Reddit is full of young people. My point is if you seek advice somewhere that has older people you're likely to have a much different response than you will if you seek advice from somewhere that is predominately high school age kids.
There is a reason why bullying is more prevalent with school age kids then it is in adulthood.
I suspect you're one of the young people I was speaking about since you don't understand this.
fankin@reddit
Yeah, because old Linux dudes are the paragons of politeness.
I dare you to mention systemd in a positive light in such forum.
Or just read your own comment as a living example.
CLM1919@reddit
Yeah, toxic attitudes are everywhere. People can minimize the chances of getting toxic comments by writing "better" posts. Be factual, give details, leave out emotionally charged and judgemental statements, etc etc.
There will always be "those people" in every community- just try not to give them any "bait" without driving yourself crazy overthinking everything.
Have a read for fun: https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.247216
Straight and Crooked Thinking
by Thouless Robert H.
blackcain@reddit
There are plenty older GenX/Boomer people here. Anybody who spits out "Unix philosophy" or some other philosophical notion that can never change. The rigidity of thought is the enemy. I say that as an older Gen Xer who cut his teeth on Unix since 1985 sitting in my dad's office on his adm-3a terminal as a 16 year old.
That said there are a number of folks who believe philosophically that open source code writers are writing for the people who consume them and that their feedback is how the codebase gets better. Thus, not listening to them is paramount to not making the codebase better. That's not really how it works but that is what they believe.
proton_badger@reddit
Indeed. It's why I've become wary of the currently very popular word "workflow" when people hold up theirs as some holy unchangeable thing. I understand its importance but at the same time in my ageing GenX experience in "computing" it's important to be flexible and adaptable because nothing stands still.
Yeah, the UNIX philosophy is another thing held up as holy and often it's a good guideline but not always the best approach when interpreted with a narrow mindset. I also think it should be interpreted more as a suggestion to embrace modularity and composition (which can take many forms on many levels), rather than force individual minimal applications.
blackcain@reddit
Yep and I lived through that time frame. It wasn't some wonderful lala land. What I do miss is the general hacker ethos which still exists but free software and it's mentality has been corporatized.
inaccurateTempedesc@reddit
100% true. I spent middle school being an absolute menace on AskUbuntu.
LBTRS1911@reddit
Appreciate your honesty. Sounds like you've grown up into a responsible person. That tends to happen as people mature.
inaccurateTempedesc@reddit
I wish I wasn't such a shithead, but tbh I'm just glad I learned those lessons as a kid on linux forums and not as an adult.
Also, turns out hobbies are a lot more fun when you focus on enjoyment rather than propping up your ego/status lol, applies to almost anything really. I see this difference when comparing discussion in /r/retrobattlestations and /r/lowendgaming to /r/pcmasterrace, it's so much more relaxed because you can't really beat your chest about PCs that would get absolutely lapped by an Aliexpress smart toaster.
LBTRS1911@reddit
Well said my friend, you sound like a person I'd like to have a beer with. Assuming you're of age now. :)
No_Jelly_6990@reddit
99.9999999999% of discord.
MarzipanEven7336@reddit
Just wanna point out, this subreddit isn’t a support center. There’s literally a /r/linuxsupport subreddit.
batvseba@reddit
so what this subreddit is all about? to praise linux every day like Lumon praises Kier?
ueox@reddit
Unless there is no other option, I think reddit isn't a very good place to ask support questions on Linux. I'd default to whatever discord/matrix/discourse of your distro where you can talk to the folks that actually ship your operating system. They will be much more knowledgeable and likely to solve your issues or point you in the direction of the proper place to file the feature request then typical redditors who might not even be using the same distro.
Slight_Manufacturer6@reddit
Basic question may get the most ridicule though
cronsulyre@reddit
I personally think the basic questions are annoying, as a simple Google search nearly always results in a stack overflow answer in no time. The tech world is made for problem solvers and require the user to put the time in the properly understand the systems they are working with.
You don't need to waste people's time with something like "what is a static IP and how do I set one". These are so basic and a simple Google search gives you the answers in under 5 seconds.
Now if you are dealing with issues on a specific model of a Unix router that you are struggling with or a load balancing software which you have tried everything you can and can't find an answer, great ask the community. These answers can be difficult to find.
batvseba@reddit
No , Google search is crap.
SawkeeReemo@reddit
Which is bullshit. Everyone learns differently, and scouring hours of non-specific or irrelevant search results to maybe sorta get an answer when you’re a newb versus just asking folks with experience is terrible. We should be welcoming to those who want to learn.
CountryNo757@reddit
There is a website telling you how to ask questions the right way to get answers. I will look it up for you. Many forums give a link to it. It is of no use campaigning on behalf of others: they are none of your business.
Motorboat_Gator@reddit
Having your question answered or issue fixed immediately is giving them a fish. Most would rather they go learn to fish. Learning styles matter when someone is getting paid to teach you
inevitabledeath3@reddit
Isn't the point that we want everyone using Linux? Not just technical people. I don't think the average person is going to learn how to troubleshoot stuff just for the sake of switching to Linux.
SawkeeReemo@reddit
Look, if someone is coming here trying to get us to build out their entire server for them step by step, that’s one thing… but if someone is asking a simple question that they just can’t figure out on their own, help them. …or don’t… if it’s don’t just move along.
I said in another post somewhere at one point, THIS is one of the things that drives people to AI over other human interaction. If I’m coming to you for help because I’m struggling to figure something out on my own, and you just play games or make it more difficult for me, I’ll just go ask AI and get a direct answer. It won’t always be the perfect or correct answer, but 99.9% of the time, it gets me in the ball park and I can figure it out on my own.
I’d much rather have that interaction with a human. …but if this is how folks are going to act, bring on our AI overlords! 😂 (I’m being facetious, obviously, but do you see my point?)
FineWolf@reddit
It depends for what. Here's an example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/1jdsvwx/comment/midb3dq/
The error message contained a URL leading to a page with the exact solution to their problem. Instead of reading that, they went on reddit to ask a question.
When searching for the exact error message leads to the solution, and the user didn't show at all that they've done the minimal amount of work, it's frustrating.
SawkeeReemo@reddit
Right. But that’s not the majority of questions I see in here getting downvoted into oblivion or talked down to or given a runaround. We need to remember that we all were learning at one point. Give someone a chance. If they end up being a shit… well… none of us are obligated to respond.
I’m just trying to get folks in this world to be a little better about how we are with others. Too much of that old Boomer “learn it the hard way, kid” attitude. Nah, we can be better.
wortelbrood@reddit
Most people don't wanna learn, they just want a answer to the question they have at the given moment.
SawkeeReemo@reddit
So what does it hurt you to just answer them? Or just ignore it… either way. People that want everything handed to them in this context pretty much always end up failing eventually, because they can’t sustain anything they’ve configured, and we all know how that plays out.
But maybe that simple answer helps someone else out who’s searching for a solution… and they are the type of person who will seize that knowledge and expand upon it. There’s absolutely zero reason to gatekeep info.
wortelbrood@reddit
Of course gatekeeping does not help. Nobody said that.
cryptopotomous@reddit
Yeah Reddit is toxic AF.
ueox@reddit
Perhaps so, but I think the chances of getting a really good answer on complicated support questions is low unless you happen to get one of the same folks you would be directly asking in the discord/matrix/discourse seeing your post. Its extremely likely redditors don't have any sort of deep knowledge specific to your system's configuration, and reddit's format makes asking all the clarifying questions that make a new user's vague bug report into something actionable a chore.
d41_fpflabs@reddit
Also I don't know why people choose not to go to ChatGPT first. 9/10 it will probably solve your problem or at least point you in the right direction.
DoubleDotStudios@reddit
Literally just the other week we had someone on r/archlinux with a wrecked install because they listened to ChatGPT. It was a simple config edit but ChatGPT had no knowledge of it.
Even if it did work 9/10 time(which it doesn’t), the rest of the time it does more harm than good. Whether that be installing unnecessary packages or actually borking an install.
If you want to risk using AI to troubleshoot your system then fine but don’t recommend a harmful practice to others.
inevitabledeath3@reddit
I have students who used ChatGPT for Linux related stuff all the time. I might not get it but clearly there is something to it. They wouldn't use it if it didn't at least point them in the right direction.
DoubleDotStudios@reddit
It can work but you need a decent level of understanding of your issue so that you can give ChatGPT a good prompt that it can use. That or an extremely simple question.
d41_fpflabs@reddit
That's not harmful. Its the same as not copying and paste code you find online. Ultimately you need to use your own discretion.
The premise of what I was saying is maybe try searching for solutions independently using the many available resourves first before coming to reedit.
rileyrgham@reddit
How can you use your own discretion if you don't know what to do? Try to think a little. Pushing people to ai for os install issues is a fucking stupid thing to do.
t_darkstone@reddit
I chalk it up to anti-AI sentiment in general, tbh.
When I was going through my distro-hopping phase (Nobara > Fedora > Mint > Arch > Nix > Garuda > Arch > Fedora (where I've settled)), I ran into several issues (how do I install Nvidia graphics drivers, how do I add a repo, how do I make a bash script to do this thing I want, etc), and Perplexity did an excellent job of solving the problem / helping / pointing me in the right direction, etc.
Part of me also wonders if people encounter issues with ChatGPT / LLMs in general because they are prompting like they Google search: concise, keywords, not complete sentences etc
ChatGPT / Perplexity / whatever are going to give shitty responses with prompts like that. The more verbose and detailed the prompt, the better the result.
d41_fpflabs@reddit
Yes I've noticed the Linux community seems very anti AI. I remember reading a blog post from a member of the GNOME or Fedora team, and in the post he was talking about future features that he could invision being added to GNOME, there was a section about AI and the comments about it where 90% + negative. The down votes here even confirm this.
Yh I genuinely feel like people who say LLMs are useless are simply using it wrong e.g bad prompts. People need to realise it's not a magic wand and obviously its not always perfect. Just like anything else if you use it incorrectly you will get bad results.
clotifoth@reddit
Only responded to the comment that claims to agree with you?
Do you think you're right because you only discuss within echo chamber social environments? is it possible?
food for thought
NotUniqueOrSpecial@reddit
The people asking these questions don't have the knowledge to have discretion on the topic. How the hell are they going to discern AI hallucination from useful advice?
DoubleDotStudios@reddit
Yes, search things for yourself first. But AI is not the right way to do that. AI for troubleshooting is just a blend of a search engine and Reddit. It lands up as a complete mess.
Using AI as “independent research” is like offloading your research onto someone mostly incompetent. Sure they can put something together, but it won’t be good.
CountryNo757@reddit
I have been using Linux for over 20 years. Because of that, I am pretty well immersed in the Linux scene. One guy, although he was claiming to be offering open source, had paying customers as well. I downloaded his software and asked him how to use it. He replied "You don't understand open source. You download the software, then you are on your own. The developer doesn't owe you anything more." Naturally, I replied "If you have so little faith in your software, I won't take the risk with it." This was before "get f***" was current.
Linux4ever_Leo@reddit
Also the forum for a particular distro is the best place to post a question first.
Unexpected_Cranberry@reddit
I've had the opposite experience. Last example was a thread on the KDE forum (at least I think it was a forum. I just know there was a dev being an absolute dick) in a thread I found when searching for a crash I kept getting on a fresh install.
The person posting was using a different distro than me, provided screenshots and logs, explained it was a fresh install in his case as well and the response was basically "Works on my machine. You must suck and are probably doing it wrong."
Second was an unhelpful error message, again in KDE, you apparently get if you haven't generated a pgp key. You needed to run a command in the terminal to fix it. Neither pgp nor any information on how to fix it was mentioned in the error. Again, this was on a fresh install. Someone was posting they had had the issue, had resolved it but was suggesting perhaps the error message could be more helpful. Again the response was basically that they suck for not understanding the error, who even starts doing anything without going into the terminal and generating a pgp key anyway and we're not changing shit.
I found out that the issue was a missing pgp key a bit further down in the search results from a helpful reddit thread about the same thing.
False-Barber-3873@reddit
This is common. Really common. Not forgetting to mention the fight some "free" devs are making to non-open-source products. IE Gtk fighting nvidia, and letting their bad code so that it annoys nvidia, don't want to fix them...
Sometimes freesoftware is just their freedom, not ours.
ItaliaTwinkBoy@reddit
I just personally use chatGPT to help me with any problems, having the AI help as well as teach me made me learn a lot.
ChronographWR@reddit
Skill issue please go back to windows
Aggressive-Dealer-21@reddit
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux
doktorch@reddit
And now we know where the toxicity actually started. zfg
Xylenqc@reddit
If you want to use Linux you need to be good at one thing: googling.
Some of the issues your having are issues other people had before you, the questions have been asked and answered before.
Like the right click thingy, you can edit the menu in the file navigator setting, it's not that hard to find. It show a lack of determination, if you're not ready to search for these easy things youself, you're gonna ends up in what's called a "help vampire".
ropid@reddit
Hey, I just looked up that post you mentioned and I think it might have been the way you wrote it. The tone probably annoyed that person. You should have written it dry, without showing emotions, just mentioning what you see and ask for help without judgement.
What I mean with "tone" is: you capitalized that "EVER" word in the title, making the reader feel he gets screamed at. Then directly after getting screamed at the reader sees "I am tired of this". And this is all happening in the first few words of your post, before you start actually going through the details of what the problem is you run into.
This is obviously not you screaming at people or blaming them, but that particular person there maybe felt like that and then reacted by being annoying with that "you do it, it's open source" garbage.
MairusuPawa@reddit
Not to mention there's only one single reply like this in said thread (downvoted) and now OP is using this long rant for more tech support.
-Generaloberst-@reddit
Windows forums? Isn't that just running the famous dism /restore-health command and if that doesn't help, reinstall everything? :-p
DavidePorterBridges@reddit
I follow tech YT because I enjoy building custom PCs. Almost all of the PC sphere uses Windows. I find it hilarious when even these people, who use Windows for work, suggest stuff like “ try reinstall the drivers, if it doesn’t work. Fresh install “. I mean, what tha fuck. 🤣
I abandoned windows decades ago but it ain’t getting any better. Maybe I’m remembering wrong but when I was a windows user it was considered a loser solution to reinstall to fix an issue. It’s Windows 2000 better than Windows 11? 😆
-Generaloberst-@reddit
Mwah, it depends. Especially nowadays it can be quicker to just reinstall everything again then searching for hours and hours for a solution that might or might not work.
Maybe it's because of my age, but I think that in the past it was a loser solution to reinstall everything because back then customizing your Windows as much as possible was a thing, taking a whole week to configure everything again. Not to mention that it took an hour or so with these slow hard drives to just install Windows. With today's SSD's it's done in like 10 minutes.
Today, people install Windows, Office and that's about it, the rest is done in the browser.
Sure, there are still people who configure their OS into oblivion, mostly programmers, games, enthousiasts. But I think it's a lot less then in the "old" days.
And you're right, Win2000 is definitely better than Windows 11... not that it's a compliment, literally everything is better than Win11 as an OS lol.
Far_Piano4176@reddit
don't forget
sfc /scannow
lomue@reddit
Lol OP complains abt others being toxic even if he started it smh
Keely369@reddit
This. I'm always wary of people who jump straight to the word TOXIC.. they're often the type to behave poorly then police the inevitable response.
zladuric@reddit
I actually just assumed it's a generic rant. I only opened to see if replying "people are toxic in every sub, not just here", but it appears I shouldn't bother :)
MuslinBagger@reddit
so needy
xdblip@reddit
Exactly. I knew there was a backstory. There usually is
Responsible_Owl6797@reddit
hate needs at least 2
Keely369@reddit
Yeah it came of a bit whinge.
xdblip@reddit
The key is you complaining instead of just asking for help, which seem pretty rude! Their attitude is reflecting yours. Dont expect help if you dont behave to start with
BrokenLoadOrder@reddit
I can't possibly agree with this. Oodles of times I've seen people very politely ask if there's a better way to do something, or if it's possible to have Linux do something that Windows does, only to have the Linux Defense League rip them to pieces for daring to suggest Linux isn't flawless.
BrokenLoadOrder@reddit
There's always these fools in open source projects who feel that any negativity towards the project should be suppressed (I see it frequently with Godot as well).
I sorta understand it - 90% of the people whining aren't contributing a damn thing to the project. But it also ensures the project will never beat its commercial rivals.
About the only project that has become the dominant player is Blender... And Blender is notoriously open with criticism.
SuchTarget2782@reddit
As a workaday IT guy, “here’s documentation, go read it” and “cool idea, go build a prototype” are pretty standard answers to questions.
The person asking the question is, after all, paid just as much as me, and I have stuff to do. If I do their job for them they won’t learn stuff.
I think it bleeds over into the non-job linux world. What with all the IT pros.
Master_Camp_3200@reddit
Assuming you're in support, it is literally your job to help them. It is not their job to comb through hundreds of pages of documentation.
SuchTarget2782@reddit
Depends. If the other person isn’t in support, then yeah, they’re my customer and I do my job.
But when talking to peers professionally it’s very much a “teach a man to fish” kind of mindset.
So I guess the question is, when you’re on a forum answering random questions, do you have an “I am support and these are my customers” mindset, or an “I am a guide helping my n00b colleagues find their way” mindset?
Master_Camp_3200@reddit
True, and there can be annoying idiots whether you're helping people professionally or in your spare time. Any community develops its ingroup/outgroup stuff though, and one of the ways it manifests in Linux forums can be this 'first, young geek, you must spend many moons learning the Linux lore as handed down by the prophet Torvalds', rather than 'type this in your terminal'...
SuchTarget2782@reddit
Very true.
Personally, I want to understand why I am typing stuff into a terminal. I was pretty hopeless until I took an “intro to Linux sysadmin” class at a local community college and the approach/pace was great for me. Really set me up for success going forward, and was only like $600 for a semester.
I know classrooms aren’t for everybody but I’d recommend that route if you can. I mean, if you think about it, we all learned how to use Mac/Windows in elementary school in a classroom right? (At least in the US.)
Master_Camp_3200@reddit
I want to know why too, but more in the sense of 'this will move files ending in 'txt' from this directory to that one, and exclude any that haven't changed in the last week' or whatever, rather than handwaving semi-mystical rationalisations about why thinking a particular driver would work for your distro makes you an idiot. Which is sometimes where they go...
Lostygir1@reddit
“Why some of the redditors here in _____ subs are so toxic!”
You’re on reddit talking to redditors, that’s why
SeeMonkeyDoMonkey@reddit
From my experience, a common mistake people make - that provokes unhelpful and even hostile responses - is appearing to feel entitled to answers or other people's work. With that in mind:
(Excerpted from How To Ask Questions The Smart Way - you might benefit from reading the whole thing.)
FryBoyter@reddit
Instead of How To Ask Questions The Smart Way, these days I prefer to refer to https://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html. This is partly because How To Ask Questions The Smart Way is an outdated source, as you have already pointed out.
CountryNo757@reddit
This (How to ask Questions the Smart Way) is the site I was thinking of. It seems as though the OP has read it and decided that asking someone else is quicker. The length of this thread shows just how wrong he was. The way that you structure your question given there is timeless.
SeeMonkeyDoMonkey@reddit
Excellent, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks!
Zeuslostchild@reddit
I don't like posts asking help when 99% of the times they didn't read documentation. I personally have spent years learning systems and networking so I overcome problems easier but don't expect people to just be like help you on demand most of the time nobody cares I would ask chatgpt or other ai for help and read documentation before I ever post something.
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
Documentations are complicated. Sometimes its very hard to understand. I remember when I started to learn Django and went to documentation to learn and was so god damn lost that I literally got depressed. I felt like I wasnt going to cut it. Glad that my friend showed me a simpler way to learn by showing me some basic things for it first. Documentation in tech space is generally for experts as far as I have experienced. Its simpler to ask people for advice first rather going to a week long deep dive.
Take my last post which prompted this post for example. Is there any documentation why on Gnome does not generate thumbnails in the file picker window? Or why sometimes thumbnails arent generated for several minutes or sometimes days. I literally had a small jpg file which I downloaded like a week ago and its thumbnail did not get generated for several days. I had given up any hope that that file was ever going to get a thumbnail. I thought it was corrupt or had issues with its encoding. Then yestarday when I was in my downloads folder, I saw that a thumbnail was generated. Like yesterday morning I was in downloads folder and there wasn't any thumbnail. It showed a generic image icon.
Joey1127@reddit
It's because you don't put a tl;dr at the end of your rants. There's a lot of salty annoying people that live on the internet. Let them know they're jerks and brush them off. Also, Reddit.
mufasathetiger@reddit
Pick a smaller distro with a smaller user base. More chances for people to be really involved in keeping their community together. Political views over technical debate? NO. Too many noobs? NO. Too enterprisey? NO. Too modern? NO. Too AI-focused? NO. Too gay? NO. Pick distros where the technical discussion takes the first place, no matter if you dont understand all, someday you will... Usually those kind of people will modulate their message one way or another to show you their secrets. For example, dont pick ubuntu, pick Devuan. Dont pick opensuse, pick Mageia. Dont pick nixos, pick Void. The silent ones usually have the strongest community values, no slogans, just the pass of time.
Zawiedek@reddit
Toxicity is everywhere nowadays. You cannot even fly to Mars anymore without having to deal with toxic people ..
linuxjohn1982@reddit
Because they're new and think they have to prove themselves by acting elitist. Like anyone who is new at anything but is desperate to fit in, not understanding that they're just being counter-productive to that goal.
Confident-Concert416@reddit
You don't complain, you ask for help,
Beautiful_Crab6670@reddit
It's (pretty much) a mix between oversensitive folk who overreacts at every minor inconvenience and other folk who (just) to be negative/have a trash talk attitude for no reason. Then again, there will always be rotten apples -- these kind of users should be expected anywhere.
Alarming-Historian41@reddit
OP, I strongly suggest you to move to OpenBSD.
*Nix based OS Ideal for newcomers without technical knowledge Broader hardware compatibility Small and super friendly community
Thanks me later!
AnxiousAttitude9328@reddit
I hate to tell you this, but reddit is toxic af. Asking for help here is just opening yourself up. You have to chose your words carefully and just move on if you get attacked or trolled.
waspbr@reddit
Because some people tend to treat their tools like a religion.
doc_willis@reddit
I see a lot of toxic people demanding help as well. (not you, but Quite often)
Then they get mad when you link them a detailed guide that answers their question. I guess they want me to copy/paste some other web site for them?
Its like they want to learn brain surgery but want it ELI5. Then get mad when they are expected to learn.
I do that all the time with kdeconnect/gsconnect (or is it gconnect?) It has its own menu entry on the Right click menu and is on the 'share' menu as well it seems.
On my KDE setup, kdeconnect even shows my phones in the file manager left side bar. I just noticed that last night, I did not even have to use the 'share' feature. Which honestly, the Share menus are often so cluttered with stuff (on android and windows) its difficult to use.
I see WAY WAY too many people use the Desktop as a giant junk drawer. The Default setup where I work (windows 11) has so many 'must have' icons on the Desktop its annoying. So I have slowly moved to the 'clean desktop' crowd over the years. I tend to have at most perhaps 4 icons for 'things' on the desktop. Right now theres a "old" folder on my desktop that i just dragged/dropped all these misc files and icons that stuff kept putting on my Desktop. :)
There must be some 200+ odd files and .desktop files in there now. I really need to clean it out.
Cant say I have really noticed one way or another that the file manager did or did not do that. I could see some issues with getting a huge cache if you have a huge # of files/thumbnails. I thought i saw where the cache is a fixed size, but I cant recall where i saw that, so i may be wrong. The file manager going through every sshfs mount, or other network share i have mounted in my home to make a cache of image file thumbnails for image/directories that i only visit in the file manager perhaps once a year (if that) , would be rather annoying.
But Yes.. having an actual discussion on the topic is one thing, a low effort snarky useless comment, is quite another. And i DO see a lot of that snark in every reddit sub.
Plan_9_fromouter_@reddit
It's a good point about the use of the desktop at the top level. Keeping a computer organized is as much of a challenge as a closet or refrigerator or something. So abuse of the desktop like that makes the OCD in me want to scream.
OrangeKefir@reddit
And you get some people who want to do on with . And they'll sometimes throw in the good old "wInDoWs dOeS iT tHaT WaY".
I think the vast majority of Windows refugees would be fine with a frequently updated distro using KDE. Anything other than that... YMMV.
condoulo@reddit
I generally don't post a lot of questions as I prefer to see what I can find via Google first, but as part of the process I do end up cursing at people (in my head) who post links to guides as a response to a question if I end up coming across the answer years later and the link they posted is dead. Nothing more frustrating than finally thinking you've found the answer just to find a dead link.
So my plea is to please post the answer in the post. While you think you may be enabling the laziness of the person asking the question at the time, you will also be doing a huge favor for the person years down the line trying to do their due diligence. Or if you do post a link please utilize an Internet Archive link, that way you're mitigating the risk of some Googler finding a dead link in your response down the road.
wolfannoy@reddit
Now that is something you often don't think about. the toxic people who demand help in a rude way in cases.
Plan_9_fromouter_@reddit
I get downvoted on Reddit for solving a Linux problem. LOL. Reddit is a strange place. Advanced users of Windows often have the most difficulties because they are frustrated by not being able to do advanced things right away (like your shortcut issue).
PlasmaFarmer@reddit
About your shortcuts on the desktop. Open a terminal, cd to desktop, and then `ln -s [target] [link_name]`. So if you want a shortcut for your project on the desktop then: `ln -s /home/me/Project/myproject/ MyProjectFolder` and you have a link for it. It is important you use -s so the link is a symbolic link and not a hard link. Experiment first and when you understand what it does start using it.
Guggel74@reddit
How we say in german: "Es gibt keine dummen Fragen, nur dumme Antworten." - "There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers."
FryBoyter@reddit
Generally speaking, however, it is stupid to ask the same questions over and over again to which answers have already been given.
Dinux-g-59@reddit
Perhaps if you have any issue about a Linux distro, the best place to ask for help is the forum of that distro. People answering in forums are generally more newbie-oriented and they are happy to help new users. Reddit is probably a different kind of place and a different kind of people.
brelen01@reddit
I know one thing that annoys me is when people ask a very common question that is easily searchable. I'm not going to go through your post history to check, but when asking a question, make sure to check if it hasn't already been answered. If it has, and the answer didn't work for you, make sure to mention it, as well as whatever steps you've taken to try and fix it, a link to it so others don't risk leaving you the same instructions might help. A lot of older Linux users learned through reading manuals and googling for answers, and seeing someone put in zero effort can be infuriating, unfortunately.
-_-REDACTED-_-HOLD@reddit
I hate to be that guy, but unfortunately, reddit is just gay af. Sensitive to everything anyone else says, but it's fine if they themselves say it.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
Well, for starters. Sub rule #1, This is not a support forum. There is also many of us who were self taught, reading books, magazines, tutorials and a lot of experimentation.
jimicus@reddit
This has been the case for as long as I can remember - 25+ years.
There are a good number of brutal truths that the Linux universe (noob and experienced) would do well to consider:
gigantipad@reddit
I am legit impressed how far Gnome and KDE have come. I found KDE in particular janky when I first tried it six or seven years ago. These days I think it is beautiful and frankly stylistically nicer than Win11 or MacOS. Gnome as well looks very polished and has been a goto for family members more used to a mac style interface.
Linux UX devs really deserve a lot of praise for how far things have come IMHO.
jimicus@reddit
Don't get me wrong, they absolutely do.
But almost all the money that's being invested in Linux is going to things rather less glamorous. It's going into the kernel, it's going into infrastructure projects like Kubernetes and its various commercial incarnations. It most certainly is not going into KDE or Gnome.
Twenty years ago, the desktop Linux experience was probably about five to ten years behind the state of the art at the time. Sure, you could do almost anything in Linux you could do in Windows or Mac OS, but it was often rather more painful.
Today, I would describe it as closer to fifteen or twenty years behind the state of the art - with some elements rather worse. Gimp 3.0, for instance, still has you editing in an RGB colourspace even though you can open and save to CMYK. (Anyone who knows the slightest thing about colourspaces has just put their head in their hands and said "they really don't get it, do they?").
pdp10@reddit
-
I would readily agree. Except, what's the objective measure of "state of the art"? And Why does there seem to have been a regression?
Answers elude me, but I suspect they might involve two competing DEs both making breaking API changes around the same time.
jimicus@reddit
That's a difficult one.
To be clear: Fifteen or twenty years behind takes us to circa 2005-2010.
If we are discussing an experience that's reminiscent of that sort of timeline, we'd expect the base GUI to come up with no real difficulties, but the general software landscape to be terribly dated.
And that's precisely where we are. Libre could be a direct clone of Office 2003. Gimp only got proper CMYK support a few weeks ago (and even that's got a few obvious gaps).
But one year of Microsoft's development budget for Office could probably fund LibreOffice for a century. And sadly, that's not a joke: The Document Foundation's 2023 report shows donations of around €1.3 million. I have no idea of Microsoft's budget for the desktop version of Office, but I'd be astonished if it was any less than €130 million.
We have to be realistic: Nobody can possibly catch the market leader while operating on less than one percent of the budget.
pdp10@reddit
Not to be curmudgeonly, but aren't you saying that this is a matter of fashion?
There are two opposing views here. One of those points of view is that GIMP a pre-press tool (where CMYK is required), and lack of CMYK didn't matter for most use-cases but was more of a talking point than an actual limitation. I'm once again thinking of Spolsky:
Do some people need CMYK? Absolutely it's required for pre-press. Are most users of GIMP caring about pre-press? Nope.
If the rival was going anywhere useful, then I'd likely agree. I'm fairly sure, however, that useful innovations in locally-executing word processors and spreadsheets ran out around two decades ago, if not earlier.
proton_badger@reddit
Well that's unkind and ignorant. They know, obviously they know, but they had a lot of other priorities first for this Free software, such as the huge amount of under the hood changes in 3.0 that will make all this easier. Look here.
jimicus@reddit
Fair point. The Gimp developers are painted into a corner by masses of legacy code that assumes an RGB colourspace; the whole point of 3.0 was to refactor all of that. Which was why it was so long coming.
But the question was about Redditors in Linux subs. And they will still swear up and down that there's no problem with converting to and from CMYK despite the fact that there simply is no mathematical way to losslessly convert from CMYK to RGB.
pdp10@reddit
I'm not truly convinced.
An alternate hypothesis is that Linux UI/UX attracts contributors with strongly-held ideas who want to make their mark on some graphical desktop. X11 and Linux/BSD are avenues open to them, while Apple, Microsoft, and other commercial sites, won't let anyone except an annointed celebrity like Jony Ive, or their CEO, have that kind of control over UI/UX.
Every couple of years, I search for UI/UX research whose results are in the public domain. Today, the little that you find in academia is about touchscreens, so we can't really leverage that to learn anything about WIMP. But even previously, there's almost nothing. Evidence suggests that people have strong opinions about UI/UX, but there's not much in the way of objective information, at least not known to the public sphere.
I'm aware that quite a number of years ago, a GIMP team did a UI/UX study of some significance, but I don't think they published the actual findings.
jimicus@reddit
That's fair enough.
But to counter that, I present the Ribbon interface - and Microsoft's explanation of why they invented it.
In short: They were regularly getting feature requests for things that Office already did. The obvious conclusion is that a lot of those features were too hard to find.
pdp10@reddit
Yes, interesting story so far, for sure. But: is there data showing that the "Ribbon" was successful at changing that?
sf-keto@reddit
Have an upvote for the classy literary reference.
OP, people have written all kinds of add-ons & extensions to do almost anything you want. So just Google & you’ll probably find what you need for free on somebody’s GitHub.
The cheeky possibility of course is that you just vibe code it with Claude! (¬‿¬)
(Srsly, don’t do that.)
Adventurous-Cattle53@reddit
Because we use Linux
DeeJayCruiser@reddit
Yeah man i agree....im not a pro user but pretty solid in linux now, just dont build kernels...
i asked a question because my more experienced colleagues told me they tried to setup a hardware nic in the kernel, but it didnt work, and only worked once the system booted to os...
i doubted the truth of this claim, so i asked that question here...and got slammed by people on the thread for not doing things i dont understand, and then a mod removed my post
i assume this thread is filled with neck beards and dweebs...
Typeonetwork@reddit
u/realxeltos Don't let them get to you. Hater's going to hate. Some IT folks like to think their superior and tell you to Google it. Point our all their errors. Some are probably scared their going to be found out their not a good as they think they are. They were pissed on by other techs so they have to spread the love. If you look up what you want to do posting it usually keep the scabs from posting. For instance, I wanted to find out how to dual install MX Linux and antix and there are people who have had a hard time doing it. I'm going to attempt it using CLI, but I don't know what the hell I'm doing. They suggest to read some CLI manuals which I already have, but I thank them because they're trying to be nice. Many people use Linux as a OS and actually want to run the programs.
Even if you learn Linux and go to any other OS you'll be better off then most people, because the average user of Windows and Mac OS don't understand how it exactly works.
Do it because it's fun.
All the best, Joe
No-Construction1209@reddit
Idk
admimistrator@reddit
I feel like every hobby community gate keeps to some extent, it's something I've never understood
OwnerOfHappyCat@reddit
About shortcuts, I think you can make a .desktop file (which is a shortcut) and in command it executes write "code /path/to/project". I'm linking a guide to .desktop, but I don't know its relevancy as I don't use them (yet). About phone integration, pretty sure KDE Connect has option to add itself to context menu.
Also, what distro do you use?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Desktop_entries
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
I was not saying about phone integration. I was describing context menus.
clotifoth@reddit
I don't need to give you any extra berth because you were "just" or "only" doing something. Don't fight me on my opinion of your behavior, but do differently instead.
Stand behind what you say and do, and only say and do things you can stand behind 100%. Throw this rhetorical device in the garbage. You sound defensive and argumentative for no reason.
My advice as an ex just- only- er
jussuumguy@reddit
This is the answer to your rant right here. This comment. He took time from his day to read and understand what you wrote and offered a solution. Not only did you not thank him or even acknowledge that he did that work for you but you just flat out disagreed. You probably didn't even click the link.
The issue is most of these problems can be solved by you just doing a bit of research and trying to learn. You choose not to do that and have others find that information for you.
Linux is the most customizable Operating Systems in existence and everything that you mentioned is available but to get it you need to find it and learn how it works. Directly comparing something free that is developed by devoted people in their free time is offensive. Most of us dislike Windows for one reason or another and making the comparison between a multi billion dollar corporation and something developed by someone in their free time is rude and in bad taste.
That's why you get the experience you speak of. You want Windows features? Pay for Windows. However there is a better Linux alternative in most cases if you just look for it.
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
No. You got it wrong. I was just giving an example of Right click and to have options available, that was the point I was making. About file sharing, I have already got it covered. As someone has made a Google quick share version for Linux. It's called RQuick Share.
Eldhrimer@reddit
But you can right click and either zip a file or send it to your phone (with KDE connect).
mmv-ru@reddit
About context menu. In used to Filemanager-Actions. It GUI App which allow extending context menu with little scripting.
Personally I use GNOME Nautilus and Nemo and also think about Nautilus plugins on Python, but still not find boilerplate plugin template, functionally comparable with Filemanager-Actions.
FattyDrake@reddit
I think someone else mentioned it, but KDE is the desktop you want. It has a lot of default context menu options including archive extraction ones. And if you don't see something in the context menu, there's a good chance you can add it via options.
The desktop also behaves a lot more like Windows, you can drag/link whatever files you want onto it.
If you're familiar with Ubuntu already, I think you can "apt install kde-standard" on and then select KDE during login. Worth a shot, might be exactly what you're looking for.
JumpyJuu@reddit
I use Nemo as my file explorer. My desktop is also an instance of Nemo. And I use custom context menus extensively both for the desktop and stand alone Nemo windows. Nemo calls context menu items actions and they can be placed under: $HOME/.local/share/nemo/actions
By the way, dotDesktop files pinned to taskbar can also have a right click context menu of their own. The shortcut for Firefox is a good example. It offers three alternative exec methods. You can inspect these files by opening them into a text editor from: /usr/share/applications/
I do don't understand why people need to express hate so openly. And I feel like it's not just the elitist linux fanboys.
Dejhavi@reddit
Depending on the file manager you use,some allow you to add more context menus through extensions or scripts:
Kriemhilt@reddit
KDE Connect is the answer to this question, buried in amongst the others.
sudo-rm-rf-Israel@reddit
It's Reddit bro, it's literally the most toxic gathering of human beings in history.
DeadeyeDick25@reddit
Because of silly post like yours.
Ok_West_7229@reddit
Because most of the people using Linux think they're some sort of tech wizards, but in truth, they all live in their mom's basement and are just venting their childhood oppression here tbf.
Sinaaaa@reddit
I mean to be fair, if you are someone who is very inflexible in how to do things, then that could be better than a difficult acclimation.
If you want niche functionality, then you need to know at least some shell scripting & use a file manager that offers customization of context menus etc.. But yes to a normie that wants many of those weird convenience features most people don't use, then yes, it's a tall order. Linux is not Windows, there are some amazing Linux things that don't exist on Windows & there are some Windows things that require deep knowhow to replicate, not C++ or rust, but at least some minimal bash ability & the willingness to read some documentation, mostly the Arch wiki on any distro.
hi65435@reddit
Even in 2025 Linux is still way more complicated than Windows or macOS. So the "upfront investment" for asking questions is a little higher, otherwise there'd be dozens of posts every day asking for the same thing. In addition while significant parts of the Linux Kernel is written by employees of Intel, IBM and the like, most enduser facing applications are still written by volunteers.
Also to give you a full blast reality check. While it's great that you use the system, you're not creating any value. Your post is a complaint that the service isn't good enough.
And it's not required, on the other hand there are various commercial offerings with support. Most famously from Redhat and SuSE.
Most people that use it as a dailer driver have been probably through most issues you ask for. But arguably they wouldn't have been able to set it up this way without trying to solve some issues themselves.
(Of course some people have enough money to buy this really compatible hardware that never causes any trouble and is really fast)
QuickSilver010@reddit
If you use dolphin as a file manager you can install as many extensions for the right click menu as you want. I personally have convert and merge pdf added to the menu.
codeasm@reddit
I first try chatgpt and copilot these days. Then searching google, stack overflow and the arch wiki (even if i have trouble with a debian install). Mostly for config ideas, package names and suggestions.
Discord been ok, never tried reddit for myself. I mostly either rant a personal experience or how i might have fixed it. Kinda like this reply. Not too helpfull, but something. Everytime i ask something, it dies with nearly no answers cause its probably obscure, too technical or i asume too much and or stupid. Most definitely skill issue. My classmates often know a answer that fix my problems and i feel dumb.
Otaehryn@reddit
> Today I posted in Ubuntu
This is the problem right there. Not the Ubuntu community, not even Ubuntu per se but your expectations not being met by Gnome which is the default desktop environment in Gnome.
Gnome has a philosophy that having options and features is distracting and reduces productivity. They are similar to Apple in that there is the the right way of doing things envisioned by system. Having icons on the desktop in Gnome is not available without extensions.
Then you have alternatives such as KDE, XFCE. There are also less popular alternatives such as Mint, Cinammon, i3, etc...
If you want to have icons, switch to KDE (3d accelerated, customization, similar to Windows in there are should be many ways to do something available to user) or XFCE (lighter, 2D, good for remote desktop).
Kiwithegaylord@reddit
Much earlier than 2010, think the mid nineties. Gnome was literally started because Qt wasn’t free software
prevenientWalk357@reddit
Yeah, XFCE is probably a desktop environment that should be recommended more to new users. So easy to configure into something that works well for you.
Lots of configuration options in the GUI. I’ve not had a customization break in XFCE due to upgrades.
MasterBlazx@reddit
I don't think so. Perfoamnce-wise isn't much different than KDE and you have to do a lot of stuff to make it look decent. XFCE shouldn't be default because it's not really comparable to Windows which is what people have as reference.
leo9173@reddit
I wouldn't agree on the performance part. XFCE is definitely more performant than Plasma. I do prefer QT and have Plasma on my Thinkpad but on my desktop PC, Plasma is almost unusable how laggy it is while XFCE works without a problem.
WokeBriton@reddit
Sadly, you will find those toxic types in every online community. It is definitely not just a linux problem.
There are, however, far more helpful&patient people who show themselves to be the opposite of the individuals you're talking about.
For your own sanity, I suggest ignoring the former and focussing on the latter.
Adventurous_Body2019@reddit
Dont know. Bad attitude pays for free software, I guess?
Kimarnic@reddit
Reddit is a shithole filled with people that think highly of themselves
lomue@reddit
Lol don’t mind the dummyheads, they just don’t like that more newbies (even if u aren’t) are joining they’re exclusive group
Best is to ignore them, hate doesn’t spread when it’s ignored
SnooCompliments7914@reddit
Please phrase your wish as a wish should be. This doesn't look like a wish to me:
Maybe in your culture this is how someone make wishes? IDK.
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
Well that was a rant. Because I uploaded a wrong screenshot multiple times that day. I had to find the correct screenshot because there was no thumbnail. I later discovered that visiting the folder will create thumbnails. Yes it was a rant because this felt like something that is very obvious. I would not have had this issue in windows xp. It's more than 20 years later and this issue seemed plain stupid to me. Now I came to know that this issue has been fixed in 24.10 or next version of gnome. But as being on an LTS version, I won't get it. Yes it was a complaint out of several weeks worth of frustration. So it was a mix of complaint and asking for a solution post. I still have many other inconveniences but I don't complain about something until it gets very frustrating. Like I found early on that on Firefox (and maybe Chrome too) that drag and drop file feature does not work. On imgur I faced this issue all the time that I drag and drop a file and nothing happened. But I don't find it that irritating. But the other option is selecting the file from file picker. And then it won't show you thumbnails. In the beginning it wasn't a issue as I would try to drag and drop and then choose the file picker. While doing the drag and drop thing the thumbs will be generated as I was in the same folder. But as I realized that it does not work, I did not open the folder anymore and here we are... Yes it was a complaint but it seemed that it was so common sense defying that it should have been addressed a long time ago. Free software notwithstanding. I have nothing but gratefulness for all the developers doing literally free work. But that does not mean I can't expect a standard of quality. If I run a charitable food pantry and made the food too salty, the people I am giving the food to have a right to complain. And I would understand that it was a fault on my part or the kitchen staff's part. I would never tell someone to go cook for themselves.
helgaardr@reddit
Taking your own example, who should they complain to? The people who run the pantry or any of their fellow guests?
Aside from that, it would be nice to understand that things come "as is", not only in free/open software. You might not mean it, but going to a public place and shouting "why things do not work the way I want" might come off to some as "why don't takes his time and resources and fix it for me now and for free".
I agree that it's not polite, but that's life. And if you're asking why this happens in linux communities and not in win or mac communities, that's probably because no one expects anyone to be able to fix it, you just blame microsoft or apple , end of story. I suppose you would also pose the question in a different way, but again would be natural, as there are different expectations.
SnooCompliments7914@reddit
Of course you have the right to complain. And of course other people have the right to not receiving you complain well or complain about how you complain.
t0xic_sh0t@reddit
It's been like that since the dawn of time.
Back in the 90's, in all Linux help channels the default answer to any question was: RTFM.
p0rc0dd10c4n3@reddit
Wait until you say you prefer a Chromium browser instead of FF or any derivative...
Personal-Restaurant5@reddit
That „why you don’t do it yourself“ is a comment I have seen so many times in open source projects. And I am deeply annoyed by it. It will not lead to anyone contributing, it will lead to a retreat of it. Open source developers are often difficult people, and I say this as someone who is contributing to open source projects.
SpreadOk7599@reddit
Stop crying
I_Blame_Your_Mother_@reddit
Some of us treat our love for Linux as something we have to guard and gatekeep.
I personally think it's better to try to help people coming in from outside love Linux, too. We developers need to show compassion and positive authority to those who seek our help. Support goes both ways! A well-managed and documented project with a friendly community is very likely to get some recognition and support.
vdvelde_t@reddit
”It is open source, why dont you fix the issue?” is not toxic, but a question.
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
Well than it's a stupid question. Because from the post, it's obvious that I or anyone else who has any issues and posts here is not able to do that.
matt95110@reddit
It’s a weird community with some gatekeeping l, but that’s not unique to Linux. People expect people to read documentation and figure things out without immediately giving up and asking basic questions.
I used to do some development and I have it up years ago because even though I was volunteering the people I was dealing with were insufferable.
techsuppr0t@reddit
I ran into this a lot trying to figure out stuff that was more difficult for me, in my case maintaining gentoo, which is very understandable. Because if I'd be able to get to that point there is a level of knowledge expected unless you just barely made it there.
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
Documentation for what exactly? The file explorer? Or gnome? Take shortcuts for example. I tried Google and chatgpt. App the processes I got to create a shortcuts are so convuluted for me that I found that it was not worth it.
matt95110@reddit
Kind of going back to what you originally said, perhaps your expectations are off?
Also, try a different distro or desktop environment. You might have better luck.
bicyclefortwo@reddit
Average redditor honestly. This website is full of snobs of all interests
Obnomus@reddit
Bruh I was having issues with brave browser on linux and one guy literally asked why do you need brave? And I was like really bro?.
It's just that someone got frustrated and lose it.
WesternPrimary4376@reddit
Just stop using Reddit, the whole thing has gone very toxic, the users posting useful stuff have long been banned.
holy-shit-batman@reddit
Also, change your desktop environment to something like xfce, you'll be more at home.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
Gotta say, something seems off about this:
...put next to the "general ordinary user" needs like:
You're a software developer. You can, at an absolute bare minimum, learn to file a good bug report. You've had people report bugs to you, you know what it's like. Imagine you're the developer receiving a report like this. And now imagine you aren't even paid for your work. How motivated are you to fix it, or offer good advice, or even be polite when you see something like that?
As for fixing your own problems:
No one was born a "c++ / Rust systems developer" either, but you're a lot closer than most. Understanding C would absolutely make you a better Python programmer, seeing as you're almost certainly deploying on CPython.
If you aren't willing to learn another language to learn this, Nautilus/GnomeFiles/Nemo all have Python bindings! actions-for-nautilus is a popular "add anything to a context menu" plugin, written in Python. Here are some extensions specifically for Nemo, the browser you said you were using, written in Python. Interested in trying KDE? It also has some Python bindings.
And that's on top of being able to script around a lot of these if you really wanted to. I bet you could hack around your screenshot problems with Python-inotify and
xdg-open
to, say, automatically open your screenshot folder after you take a screenshot, or even automatically upload it.So, sure, I get that not everyone has the skills to solve their own problems, and "patches welcome" isn't a great thing to hear if you're genuinely just trying to report a problem. But this isn't deep black magic, it's not like you're complaining about GPU driver problems or WINE internals or something. More than most other Linux users, you have the skills to solve your own problems!
intrinsicgreenbean@reddit
This is an excellent answer, and I have to add that the things up is asking about are conveniences. It's not like they can't do what they need to do, they just can't do it exactly how they want to. Well, if it's more convenient to learn how to fix it, then do that. If not, live with it.
These things aren't bugs, they're personal pain points in your specific workflow. You wouldn't go to Microsoft expecting them to fix little stuff like this, and you paid them. Instead you're using wsl and switching to Linux to get a redis client. There are some nasty Linux users who post answers or non answers to questions, but op is giving off a sour attitude and it gets sour responses.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
Some, maybe. The icon thing is absolutely a bug and should be fixed. And in fact was fixed, OP is just running on an LTS version instead of the current version that has the fix. I can't even blame OP for running an LTS version and expecting things to work.
My criticism here is more about... instead of any of the productive ways to engage with that bug, either with the software or with the community, OP just wanted to complain.
KRed75@reddit
Apparently Linus Trovalds was a major asshole for many years and spoke like that to other developers who were helping with coding the Linux kernel. He was blunt, aggressive, and extremely rude. You can actually go back and look at the mailing lists from years ago and read how he talked to people.
He was basically forced to mellow out but he's still blunt but not as cruel as he used to be.
A lot of Linux developers have this same attitude.
gilbertoalbino@reddit
I call it undisturbed evenness.
jedi1235@reddit
I mean this in a polite and constructive way: Search for solutions before asking.
Us Linux folks hate inefficiency. If 1000 people encounter a problem and ask for a solution, that's thousands of duplicate, potentially erroneous answers. But if 999 of them searched, they'd find the one answer already posted. Follow-up questions and edits would fix the errors, and now there is a central, well-known solution that bubbles to the top of search results.
Don't create noise. Upvote good answers.
I don't know if you personally are guilty of this, but how many "Which distro should I use?" and "Should I switch to Linux?" posts do you think get posted on linux4noobs every day? Those folks are not searching for answers before creating more noise. Don't be like them.
Rule of thumb: If you can't find an answer after an hour of searching, consider asking. 2 hours is better. And you'll likely get better results at StackExchange than Reddit.
gatornatortater@reddit
You're probably unintentionally communicating a sense of entitlement and expectation rather than a sense of gratification. When you're not use to the way the community works in gnu/linux it is probably easy to do.
67comet@reddit
I've noticed a lot of shape edged people myself. I've been mainly using *nix for the last 25 years or so, I've noticed a few distros that carry a band of sarcastic evil doers but *nix in general has been pretty great. When I started, Fedora had the most ass holes, but now it looks like there are a few "I think I'm better than you, but I won't help you better yourself" people lurking most places. I struggle every-time I try to do something new and usually I can find help in the utubes, or in the reddits.
When I started (circa 2001) I struggled until I found J.A.M.D. (Red Hat based - "Just Another Modified Distro"). Once I was able to install/reinstall that a dozen times a day (because learning), I turned to Gentoo and used that until I had kids. Once the kids were taking up my compile time, I started using Ubuntu (it still runs my web server and my nextcloud server) but I've been struggling to get Gentoo back on my machine. I have yet to have a successful interaction with anyone on dealing with UEFI and dual booting my work required install of ms winblows (I really do have a deep dislike for that company).
I suggest you join the subs of the distros you enjoy playing with (Unless Ubuntu gets your panties wet, then find sub reddits for that and find the friendly folks in there).
ThiccFarter@reddit
This isn't a reddit issue, this is a Linux issue. Linux users, and especially ones on internet forums, are some of the most rude and unhelpful snobs you will ever come across. The worst is when you bring up an issue and they you to "the same issue that has been solved" except it's not the same issue. If there is a Linux forum without this type of toxicity then let me know because I haven't found one.
lifelong1250@reddit
Reminds me of posting on Stack Overflow and getting grumped at. I think the main issue is people will often post a question or problem but not provide sufficient context, background, code, configs, screenshots etc. for the community to help with the issue. That's frustrating and when combined this being reddit/the-internet, people are cranky.
btsck@reddit
Honestly , I would not call those statements you quoted, toxic. They may be less helpful than you expected, but toxic? I'd disagree
datbackup@reddit
It’s literally just reddit. Like 70% of this site. Not even specific to the Linux sub
blablablerg@reddit
It is all in the way you frame your questions. Candywrap it a bit more, show appreciation instead of frustration etc.
I never had problems with support from communities, it's about how you approach them.
CasuallyGamin9@reddit
When it comes to Linux there are some people that don't like others who ask questions which were previously asked and solved. Some of them are really tech savvy and for them it is important to do your own research and try to find the answer by yourself. If you go and create a post regarding an issue and you also add the details about how you tried to fix it yourself, add info about your setup and the steps to reproduce the issue, you may get help from them. The issue with this is that not all people know what to search for and how to dig through the documentation. Linux was mostly for the cool tech guys who know how to use the command line, debug and tweak their system, but now, mainly because of Steam Deck, it gets more recognition and slowly becomes an option to consider for gaming ( still has a long way to go). I think this depends a lot on the distro you choose. I tend to see newer distros users that are more open to newcomers and the community is more welcoming when others give the distro a shot, but I believe you will always have a toxic response. If you get such a response, I would advise you not take it to heart, and look for the people that want to help a newcomer that is not tech savvy or knows anything related to that given diatro. Give as much info as possible in order to get a meaningful response. When it comes to new features, this is hard as if you see something that is missing, and only a few request it, it will not be top priority. For such issues, maybe create a post with suggestions, say why you think is needed and how this may help the community and maybe it will gain traction and it will be added. Don't forget that some distros have behind a small team that are not able to work 100% on it, have families and jobs, thus having limited time .
Majestic_Forever_319@reddit
Dude, i ofc agree these people are extremely annoying, but the way you said it..."there was this one guy", like if its just one or two people, welcome to internet man? These people are everywhere, theres no way to avoid them. Now if you said that 25% of all responsese or let alone half of them were like that, now that'd be a real issue in my view. Luckily its not like that most of the times, but i would lie if i said there's not a significant amount of linux fanboys and cultists.. just ignore them and you're good.
Allalilacias@reddit
It might seem toxic, but part of working on open source makes the experience quite harsh. For one, the answer "why don't you fix it yourself" is more of a real thing within the ecosystem than a dig at you. The open source ecosystem survives off the back of annoyed programmers who go and solve an issue they found while using said open source program. It might come off as rude, but is an entire thing that makes the program work.
On the windows comment, I really don't know what to tell you. Fools will be fools, I guess. But, even if difficult to pull off, most solutions I've found for my problems have been solved with help from people here or in similar forums.
The reason there's many features not implemented that feel like common sense to have is because developers are not paid. Quite as simple as that. It's the same reason people aren't as friendly. Everything is done for free and regardless of the reasons for doing said things for free, it is kind of difficult to handle people who treat it the same way as Windows or Apple, multi billion companies who pay their developers a lot of money so that can grind them for an excellent product. Linux is an excellent product not because but in spite of being free.
It is also important to note that many of the users of Linux are terribly comfortable with finding solutions, using the CLI and working with outside the box solutions that a regular user isn't accustomed to.
All this to say I'm sorry about your poor experiences, I assure you it isn't the norm and that the project continues to grow with time. The OS used to be much less user friendly and have gotten better with time and easier to manage for non technical people. You have slight complaints, but it would've taken both you and me much more effort to run Linux back in the day. It will get better and I hope you don't take some poor comments the worst way and continue with us, because there's a solution to almost everything you want to do, even if it takes some work to do.
mimavox@reddit
Agree, many on here are very rude. It's a stark difference to r/linuxmint where people are very friendly and patient with newcomers.
Mister_Magister@reddit
tiredness
Never-Late-In-A-V8@reddit
I've been using Linux since 1997. There's a certain section of the Linux community that are just elitist cunts, thinking they're above everyone else just because they use Linux and this has existed for the entirety of the time I've been using Linux. It isn't helped by the fact that Linus Torvalds is also like they are to kernel devs and contributors too.
Fluffy-Bus4822@reddit
Reddit in general appeals to a particular toxic type of person. Generally ones that feel the world owes them something for their own perceived level of intelligence. People who haven't achieved as much as they thought they should have, and blame other stupid people for it.
Bubby_K@reddit
There's toxic everywhere you look
Political fans
Sonic fans
Sports fans
Taylor Swift fans
Fan fans... Seriously I've seen heated arguments over which fan bearing is superior...
Bingo-heeler@reddit
No true fan fan would ever buy a Dyson
/s
Complex-Custard8629@reddit
noc tuah
Bubby_K@reddit
Noctua IS a good arguement
3mil3@reddit
People are toxic, that is why. Don't be that person!
Caddy666@reddit
Thats just people in general.
Bastard coated bastards with a triple bastard filling.
11177645@reddit
r/linux4noobs and r/linuxquestions are good, r/linux is mainly focused on news, not troubleshooting.
sebf@reddit
If you have the patience, try to ask the same questions on Mastodon. People are much nicer there.
Beautiful_Crab6670@reddit
There will be always rotten apples -- you've got to look past em.
MatchingTurret@reddit
But someone else is supposed to do it for you for free. Entitled much?
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
I am not demanding. I am asking if something can be done. I sometimes say that on windows something was so easy and it is very convenient etc. There isn't any entitlement.
rngr@reddit
When asking for technical help, you'll get better responses by providing as much information in the initial question as you can, so people don't think you are looking to be spoon-fed answers, and they won't have to spend extra time getting the details from you that they need to provide the right help. Show that you have put some effort of your own into finding a solution on your own, and do it in a factual and neutral tone.
A question should have the following info: desired behavior, observed behavior, documentation you've read, and steps you have attempted.
Here is an example template:
No-Bison-5397@reddit
Free software isn’t free as in it costs no money. It’s free in that you can inspect it and modify it to ensure that it does exactly what you want, you can distribute it as you choose in line with the licence conditions.
It’s often put as “free” as in “free speech” not “free” as in “free beer”.
You are being treated like an equal member of the community where the benefits and costs of the software are shared. Not as a “user” there to be farmed for cash.
It is what has made free software great. You can either get used to it or just ignore these people whose responses you don’t like but it’s not going to change.
muffinChicken@reddit
They are big silly gaybos
deafpolygon@reddit
Get off my lawn.
Specialist-Delay-199@reddit
redditor for a few years now, all I can say is that many people here need medical supervision and I'm not even joking. And as it turns out much of the Linux community consists, for various reasons, of neckbeards who will criticize newbies for not knowing where to even start
blackcain@reddit
GNOME and KDE both have indexers that do create thumbnails.
I assume this is you - https://www.redditmedia.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1jmkaje/why_does_ubuntu_not_create_thumbnails_in_file/?ref=readnext
Looks like you had your question answered regardless.
neo-raver@reddit
Yeah, I think the unwritten rule of this subreddit is that it’s for people who are very familiar with Linux, and are here to discuss it, not ask questions… It’s a little unfair to people here, I think, since it’s not really written anywhere.
To address this, someone else made r/linuxquestions and r/linuxfornoobs, which are much more understanding. Each of the major distros have their own subreddits, with varying degrees of saltiness. While I’m not on the Ubuntu sub, the community in general around that distro seems to be fairly friendly to beginners.
But yes, this is something the Linux community in general struggles with. I think that’s a (minor) part of the reason there aren’t more Linux adopters. I’m sorry you’ve had to put up with it.
First_Code_404@reddit
Look at this guy, he doesn't understand COBOL
MouseJiggler@reddit
The thing is that complaining here about missing features is entirely useless to anyone, yourself first and foremost. If there's a missing feature - submit a feature request on whatever bug tracker the project where the feature is needed is using.
hazyPixels@reddit
Much of the time, the meaning of "free" in "free software" doesn't necessarily mean no cost, it means users have the freedom to modify it amd make it work the way they want, and to distribute it with their changes. Much "free software" has been developed by individual users in their spare time and they never receive any monetary compensation, hence many of the features or enhancements are contributed this way by users who felt such features were important enough to spend time implementing them. It's just the way such software is developed, so you might want to keep that in mind when asking for new features. It's a community effort, not the profit-motivated result of a for-profit company. It's unfortunate that this may be communicated to new users in a manner which may seem toxic, but sometimes people just have bad days and aren't always at the top of their diplomatic game.
If you really want a feature and nobody seems interested, consider offering a bounty to the for the feature.
You might also try to keep in mind that generally in software development "nobody likes the idea guy".
_angh_@reddit
try one think: first, search for the issue, then ask for an answer. There is r/linux4noobs where beginners should start with. There is just too many people repetitively asking for answers many times answered. In addition, Linux is not a windows. If you can't use google to solve at least some of your answers, reconsider.
Correct_Reply2272@reddit
Why don't you simply make your own OS?
(I don't believe that but just trying to be 'that guy')
Low_Difficulty5547@reddit
I remember when I was getting into computers in the mid 90s, and I hung around on BBSes and newsgroups. I asked so many dumb questions, yet people were so friendly and helpful, and I learned so much.
Perhaps AI will take this role now that all the real people are so fed up and toxic regarding newbie questions.
ReallyEvilRob@reddit
Welcome to reddit. How can I help you?
edparadox@reddit
So, the answer is simple but long, so I am going to try to make it as short as possible.
Aware_Bath4305@reddit
And we want people to leave the "don't look behind the curtains" crowd at Microsoft?
I'm a 30 year N00B of linux, because I'm too married to the GUI! And I stopped distro jumping.
Distro watch FTW!
cornfeedhobo@reddit
1) Your complaint is valid.
2) Labor is generally considered the price of free software. I've tried sponsoring fixes, but it has literally never worked. People would rather you learn how to contribute than pay for their time. If you ever get to the level of contributing, you'll understand better.
3) Stick with it. Linux is worth it.
Welcome to the club, sorry it's a rough start. At least you aren't compiling kernels, and literally every package, like I had to do when I started.
natermer@reddit
Napoleon Complex of the intellectual variety.
These people place great importance on their intellectual ability and technical knowhow, but are very insecure about their lack of actual accomplishments.
So this tends to come out in a couple different ways.
The most common way is to find projects or technical aspects of "linux" that they don't like and then aggressively critize and go after developers and projects.
The unspoken assumption is that if they find are able to find flaws and critize people who are better then them (people who actually put forth effort and time necessary to accomplish things) then that puts them on equal standing.
This is, of course, incredibly delusional and on a certain level they know it. The resulting cognative dissonance just bruises their ego more and ends up reinforcing the behavior.
So much more that the mere passing mention of a project or software or person they don't like will tend to send them into tirads as they try to goad other people into engaging with them.
The other, and even more pathetic, thing they tend to do is also go after people they see as less themselves.
Because, in their own mind, the more insecure and stupid they make other people look the more secure and accomplished they make themselves feel.
Remember all of this stems from a sense of insecurity and immaturity. They need to grow up and get over themselves and learn better coping mechanisms.
There is no real justification for going out of your way to insult people on help forums.
Technical communities tend to attract people who are socially inept. Society is chaotic and uncontrolled and there are people out there that do and say things that are unpredictable. It is stressful and full of unspoken rules and nuance that is difficult to pick up on. This is especially stressful for young men whose emotions, hormones, lack of experience, and lack of social standing. Being insecure around other people makes people feel very insecure about themselves.
Where as technical/gaming stuff tends to have rules and behaves in a more predictable and controlled fashion. This makes them much more comfortable subject/pastime for insecure young men to "retreat into".
So much so that these types of people tend to want to layer even more rules and more predictable behavior on top of it. They like to create their own rules and try to apply them universally to games (you are not playing the game right) they play or software they use (you are not supposed to use it that way) or communities they operate in, etc.
Most people tend to grow out of this stage with experience.
But there is always a new crop of people coming in so it is a problem that isn't ever going away. For every person that realizes that putting in the effort of being nice is 100% worth it, you have a new user coming in with a chip on his shoulder.
kalzEOS@reddit
I don't really have an answer as to why some people choose to be dickbags, but I attribute that to the famous small dick syndrome.
BreakerOfModpacks@reddit
I think it's just the standard internet hate at the group of Linux Users.
TornaxO7@reddit
"Toxiticy" (I hope it's the correct word) is everywhere. We are all just humans. Maybe some are truly toxic but maybe someone just had a bad day or is frustrated and didn't though twice before writing something. Nevertheless: Don't focus too much on that.
And by the way: Welcome to Linux :D
SeeMonkeyDoMonkey@reddit
FYI: "Toxicity".
TornaxO7@reddit
Ah, thank you for the correction!
OwlAdjuster@reddit
Takes me back to the good* ol' Usenet days. Ask a question and get told to 'rtfm' by people who, very obviously, haven't rtfm. Ah, memories
* Good ol' days weren't actually very good. In fact, they mostly sucked.
itastesok@reddit
The entire internet is toxic. I'm not surprised to find it around every corner.
ILikeBumblebees@reddit
It's not the internet.
ILikeBumblebees@reddit
Have you considered that when you approach people you've never met before with a sense of self-entitlement -- and demand that they invest their time and effort into helping you do things that you appear unwilling to invest your own time and effort into -- the responses that you're getting might actually be entirely appropriate and on-target?
Fer_N64@reddit
When Debian announced that it was abandoning X I jokingly said that it was time to stop using Debian. I received dozens of comments insulting me. Not a single one questioned whether it could be sarcasm.
jlobodroid@reddit
People are toxic...
ConspicuousBearLoaf@reddit
Arch-holes?
Wompaponga@reddit
Because it's reddit and snark reigns supreme
Hosein_Lavaei@reddit
Honestly reddit is the worst place to ask for help. Stick to forms and discord, matrix,etc. I am here just for news
wolfannoy@reddit
Sadly it's Reddit there's a lot of toxicity in many subs. Heck there are other subs attacking others for liking something else.
Lukainka@reddit
As you said, it is only the case of some Linux users. And everywhere you go, there's always some people grumpy. It's just how it is, human have different personalities. It's not a big deal
FaintChili@reddit
If you don’t like suffer and don’t use Arch you are not worthy. If you like Mint then you are a newbie.
Sometimes we forget that the majority of Reddit users are just angry teenagers.
sniffstink1@reddit
It's just a reflection of society in general. They're the world population is so much bigger, and that's the percentage of toxic people results in more toxic people.
EGG_CREAM@reddit
There are multiple things going on here. Firstly, some people are assholes. Those people are in every community. You can make yourself miserable by focusing on them, or just accept that truth and go on living your life. Second, in the open source community there is an ethos of “do it yourself”. I haven’t looked through your history so I’m not commenting on your questions in particular, but in general if you ask a question that can pretty easily be answered by just a bit of research, you’ll likely get more negative responses. It’s just how it is in this community: you are expected to be your own front line support to a degree. That said, don’t let the haters get you down! There are lots of people out here that will be very helpful, and it is genuinely fun working with software whose sole purpose is to do the job it was made to do: not collect your info, not spy on you, not upsell you. Keep asking questions and keep having fun in this community!
Existing-Violinist44@reddit
Reddit is not the best place to complain about missing features. Many projects have issue trackers or have a specific process to request features. Also requesting a feature is perfectly fine. Complaining about the lack of said feature makes you look like an asshole, considering you're not a paying customer and a lot of developers in the Linux sphere work for very little compensation or for free (not always the case but very often it is). This is the reality of open source a lot of the time, for better or worse.
Raising a feature request or discussing an existing one is a valuable contribution since it lets the developers know what their users want most. So you should rather do that instead of just complaining. Also if you like a project, consider donating to it. That will likely speed up development and make the project more feature complete in the long run.
Zulban@reddit
I've been on reddit 16 years. Every year it's a little bit worse.
psaux_grep@reddit
I’m not really sure how to read your post…
I’m torn between the fact that you are right that there’s a lot of toxic people involved and the fact that you also seem to be part of the problem.
The «Linux community» does not owe anything to anyone. So when you come in and complain about things being different than what you’re used to and asking for change no-one will prioritize that.
«Beggars can’t be choosers», and if you don’t pay and you don’t contribute there’s no value in you. Please don’t read this the wrong way. I don’t pay and my contribution is limited to online communities and helping others whenever possible.
This year marks the 25th anniversary of me using Linux, but I also gave up on the dream of desktop Linux becoming common 16 years ago.
Where I work we host everything on Linux, and I also use Linux for personal projects. Professionally I use a Mac, and at home I use both Windows and Mac.
My take on the Linux community is that there is too much division to deliver a vision of something truly great outside of the core. Projects get forked left and right for nonsensical reasons and contributors and maintainers being unable to work together peacefully.
There’s 50 distros and 20 window managers if you discard all the really niche ones.
Almost all applications has 2-4 alternatives at least.
If everyone worked towards the same goal… they would still be arguing about what that goal was and how to get there. It’s a pipe dream.
Hence, I don’t spend my time lodging complaints that it doesn’t work the way I wanted it to. It’s like changing from Catholicism to Protestantism and complaining that the saints are gone.
jr735@reddit
First off, this behavior isn't limited to these subs, or Reddit in general or Linux in general. That's life. As others have pointed out, there are a pile of entitled support requests, not to mention vague ones, or aggravating in other ways. In the grand scheme of things, those who want help have to realize one thing. The head of the support department is the person they see in the mirror.
There are places to submit feature requests.
KnowZeroX@reddit
Why run WSL for redis, there is docker you know?
This is partly why I recommend Linux Mint, the community is more new user friendly as many users were new users themselves and are unlikely to say things like do it yourself
If you want lots of options and ability to do stuff through the GUI, use a distro that has KDE as the DE of choice, KDE is fairly feature rich
You actually don't need to know C++/Rust to do stuff, many DEs plugins are written in Javascript or Python to make it easier for people to contribute precisely because not everyone is comfortable with using lower level languages.
RischioCinico@reddit
Why do you pay attention to this kind of users? Just ask your questions trying to provide as many details as possible, hopefully someone will help you, but always expect this kind of reactions. There will always be someone who will tell you to use Windows, change distro, change desktop or to use the software he uses in his own way. Make sure you choose the tools that work for you, there are various desktop and file managers that try to satisfy different needs.
D-S-S-R@reddit
Most things are easily to find via Google, every district has a wiki and a lot of the solutions are applicable for different distros. I’d suggest checking that stuff out before asking basic questions on this subreddit
Linux is way more DIY than the other two big Operating systems. While this gives the whole thing a bit of a learning curve, it’s also the thing that makes it great and way worth it to invest the time to learn how to work it.
And if you encounter bugs, tell the devs about it and don’t rant on Reddit.
Sh_Pe@reddit
Sometimes it’s hard to tell whether something is a bug, or if you’ve something wrong on your side.
D-S-S-R@reddit
A Google search should clear up whether or not it’s a bug. And compared to windows or Mac it is. Expecting support like it’s a product you paid for is weird. Expecting it from a subreddit is weirder
The_Great_Sephiroth@reddit
It's Reddit. The sysadmin sub is SO toxic. Generally the No Man's Sky sub is great, unless politics come up (not allowed). Windows subsxare bad too. Just crazy hostility here. I'm already considering returning to forums. I already use the Gentoo Linux forums. Those guys are friendly!
ofbarea@reddit
When I started with Linux as a daily driver, I want to Ubuntu, just because, my personal feeling, the people was more friendly.
Several years later, still using Kubuntu for my desktop, Ubuntu server for my Home server and Lubuntu, for older gear.
Keep going, stuff will improve with time.
Keely369@reddit
I think the answer you are complaining about was more of a generalisation about how open source software works than personally pointed at you.
You've come from Windows where you might be used to a customer / provider relationship but that is not the case with Linux. Combining a rant or a whinge with a request for help is not a good way to get help.
Just because it's 'common sense' to you, doesn't mean it doesn't require effort to fix. Every software problem is easy to the guy who 'doesn't do software and just wants it to work,' but it's someone else, likely unpaid, who you're expecting to fix the issue.
If something needs fixing, report the bug in the appropriate place (not Reddit) with sufficient detail. You don't need to be a software engineer to do that.
Agitated_Check9655@reddit
I remember i asked this same thing here in this subreddit and got flashed and bombed whit answers like "You are so stupid because X" snd things of the sort lol.....I had to learn linux by my self, its been years now.
There is tech support and lots of subreddits, then there are subreddits from linux where they tell you "Read the fucking manual" (RTFM), do you think thats normal by chance?, they have the answer on the tip of their tongue but for amusement they just tell you to read "the fucking manual" which i imagine has some hunderd pages where you got to search for that simple thing you were asking.....
But yeah i am wrong and you are wrong and anyone who says that there is toxicity on linux subreddits is wrong because linux ♥️. And yes, i am a long time arch user, and my brain didnt melt to the point of telling someone to read a fucking manual when they ask something about an AUR helper for instance.
You can bomb me now.
Kriemhilt@reddit
Sometimes saying RTFM is a dick move.
Sometimes it's just saying "this is documented and it's normal to at least try to figure it out from documentation, and then ask a question if necessary".
I know getting your question answered feels nice, but encouraging lazy help vampires just burns people out.
There's some kind of tradeoff between giving someone a fish and teaching them how to fish. People definitely don't always get it right, but complaining that the free help you got online from complete strangers isn't exactly the free help you wanted, is a little childish.
Agitated_Check9655@reddit
It isnt encouraging lazy help vampires, its answering a question whitout just linking a hundred pages manual. And guess what, not everyone of them have hundreds of hours to just sit and fix everything they need, not everyone is a linux hobyist tech professional and most of these newbies just want to use a comouter whitout shitwindows, be it because its a crappy laptop they have and its the only thing they have for studying, or any other reason.....
Whats childish and lazy is just sitting there trashing people and NOT helping at all just dropping links here and there or not linking them at all....
komata_kya@reddit
Well, yeah? Tell them that there is a documentation that they can look up their questions in. So they won't ask for every small thing in the future, but become self sufficent. Give a man a fish, or teach him fishing as the saying goes.
Agitated_Check9655@reddit
"Hey i recommend you to read the manual, page X that explains Y"
"You idiot read the fucking manual"
Which one do you prefer? i dont need anyone to talk to me like a barbie but respect and being good is probably the first rule of the guideline pinned on almost every subreddit (including linux subreddits). I wouldnt be surprised if that wasnt the case on arch sub tho lol.
Sometimes there are other things that simply arent in the manual, and, as i said, one can give a hint on what the problem has to do whit; "Hey you can do this to fix it, its because of this. I recommend you to read the manual page X to understand it better". Hell if u dont even want to give me the page number then go ahead and tell me the command i should check lol....
There is a lot of respecting people who help newbies here that dont need to tell them how dogshit they are just because they dont know something about linux. I myself can answer the same question a thousand times and not say "oh fuck it a lot of people asked me where the banannas promo is today, lets jut shit on them"......Computers are complex and some are just learning, giving them a hint isnt too complex, asking for details and guiding them through the process. There is a lot of people who tried to migrate from windows to linux and ended up in this case scenario where people like you give a shit and tell them to read the manual because why bother right?
The fun part is, there is a big part of the linux community that are just 15-18 kids who say "Yea i been working whit linux, i am engineer, i heard this question lots of times damn just read the fucking manual you stupid"
......
killermenpl@reddit
There's a couple of reasons. One of the big ones is that a lot of Linux people are elitists, a lot of redditors are elitists, and so the Linux redditors tend to be super elitists. It's been getting better over the years, but it's still an issue.
As far as asking questions go, make sure you're asking in the proper place. Asking here in r/linux will get your post deleted, as it's against the first rule of this subreddit. Try asking in r/linux4noobs, or in a subreddit more dedicated to whatever distro/de you're using.
But before you ask, always try to search for the answer yourself. Maybe you'll get lucky and find a solution. And if not, you can say that you did look it up, and didn't find anything that worked for you. Yes, there will always be someone who doesn't read the post telling you to "just google it", but those people can be ignored.
Additionally, it seems like you unfortunately bought into all the Ubuntu/Gnome propaganda. Sadly both Ubuntu and Gnome are very opinionated - you either do things how their creators want you to do them, or you have to spend a lot of time and effort to change it. I suggest changing your distro at your nearest convenience, and (personal opinion) make sure to stay away from any distro that's just Ubuntu with a different desktop.
ProgGeek@reddit
Ignorant keyboard bullies love Reddit. You have to filter it out and hope there are quality responses. Try not to take it personal and don't let it stress you out. It's the norm everywhere, not just r/Linux.
NegativeZero935@reddit
I think your question can be answered with a single word: Reddit
ravensholt@reddit
You're not wrong. Welcome to reddit. It's toxic all-over.
AntiDebug@reddit
Unfortunately one of best and simultaneously the worst things about Linux is the community. There are a lot of Elitist jerks unfortunately. But there are also a lot of decent helpful people too. Dont let the negative bits put you off.
Shikadi297@reddit
Thumbnails don't load in windows until you visit folders either
I don't use Ubuntu's default window manager, but context menus work fine for me
Not sure what's missing shortcut wise, but again might be an Ubuntu thing
And to answer the title, because this is a web forum, and every web forum in history has a bunch of toxic people that like feeling superior by judging people for having questions they once didn't know the answers to. Just ignore them, there's plenty of good people too
Agitated_Check9655@reddit
My advice is rather just search the problem on google and dive through for some while, i did ask about 3 questions total on my years using linux, and, i would like to ignore all the people who came pretty much calling me and idiot for no reason but i just stopped asking anything else here or any other subreddit that isnt ubuntu tbh.
GuaranteeNo9681@reddit
I've never asked anything. Just use man. I mean if I was asked something I'd answer if I knew. Man being so good doesn't explain behaviour of some jerks unwilling to help. But rly man, man, man.
Agitated_Check9655@reddit
man and --help really work but sometimes there are other problems regarding something that has nothing to do whit terminal tools or anything that would be found in the manual. Having graphical glitches for instance, man nor manuals will help you most likely.
komata_kya@reddit
Yes, lots of people don't search anything before asking a question.
Agitated_Check9655@reddit
Most dont actually search anything before asking here and there, and its really easy to just quick search some things. Still doesnt give nobody the right to shit on people tho.
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
Thubnails did load in file picker though.
doc_willis@reddit
I recall, that feature has only recently been added to the Gnome File Picker.
But thats all i can say on the topic.. its amazing how many arguments I have seen over 'file pickers' and 'save/load dialogs' over the years. Dating back to seeing heated debates on Dial Up BBS's on Amiga forums. :)
Sure_Research_6455@reddit
because 99.9% of the time the questions asked CONSTANTLY are answered in the official documentation.
new linux users are great, it's what we want. spread the glory. but it's the new users who watch an outdated youtube video to install something and then come here screaming about it not working and demanding tech support for an issue that's fully documented.
there's a 'man' command for pretty much everything. there's official documentation online that people take a lot of time to keep up to date and accurate.
Kruug@reddit
So...guide them to that.
Donteezlee@reddit
Google is your friend.
Kruug@reddit
Google brings them to reddit with people saying "Google is your friend"
perkited@reddit
It's also some who come in with a sense of entitlement that's a source of irritation, believing that if they're unhappy that someone should "fix it" for them.
Think about it in a real world scenario. You see an eating establishment that's offering free food, you just walk up and ask for something from the menu. They prepare it and serve it to you, and most people are appreciative. Then you have the people who complain that some item didn't have bacon, or wasn't prepared the way they like it, or other types of cuisine are completely missing from the menu, etc. When the people running the establishment let the person know they're welcome to go back into the kitchen and fix it themselves, the "customer" starts complaining that they're not a chef, don't have time to deal with it, etc. Then they start verbally disparaging the eating establishment for not meeting their demands.
That's what the majority of these types of posts look like to me.
Chester_Linux@reddit
Unfortunately there are son of bitches everywhere. But I guarantee you that those who are tricycles like that are the minority, don't give up on using Linux just because of these people 🙏🫂
insanemal@reddit
There's a lot going on here so let's cover a few.
There are a few things that start to get super common and annoying when you've been doing this whole Open source thing for as long as I have. And unfortunately most of them are done by excited new users roughly 5 seconds after they start.
First one is: I've got great ideas for new features!
Yeah you and a few thousand other people. It might not be instantly obvious but the Devs have piles of work to do. If you aren't offering to write them, first check the issue tracker. Chances are your idea has been mentioned, asked for, or turned down for some reason about 100 times already.
Next one is: How do I
This happens WAY too often. And people get mad when they get told to read the manual. And people defend people asking questions that are literally answered in the manual. Please, I beg you, read the manual.
A close relative: How do I
Use the search feature. Use Google. Use Ask Jeeves. Just please for the love of dog and all that is mouldy Search first, ask last. I mean I get it, your a beginner and it's hard and scary and about 100 different new things all at once. And yes there are rooms full of bearded old wise people who know all the answers. BUT they are busy. All of them. You wouldn't walk into a literal room full of super smart people every 5 minutes to ask questions you haven't tried to answer yourself would you? So why is it ok to do that to people on the internet?
Thing is, most of them are more than happy to drop literally everything and help, IF and only if they know answering the question will actually help the person. This is a whole "teach a man to fish" thing. If all I do is hand out free fish, then all people will do is come to me every time they want a fish. Next thing I know I'm a sea captain giving out free fish to everyone and I have no time to do anything else.
If you rock up with tackle bait and a can do attitude, I'll spend a week helping you learn to catch fish. knowing you're only coming back if you can't work it out yourself AFTER HAVING TRIED.
That's why you see so much "toxicity". Some of it is just people proactively protecting their time and effort from people who don't actually respect or value it. And being a bit jaded.
But also, there is a growing group of people who think anything less than a full answer immediately is toxic. Those people are fucking morons.
TL;DR have a read of "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way". The guy who wrote it can be a dick. But he's also right.
AnnieBruce@reddit
The Linux community has been like this forever, its better than when i started in 99
Will2LiveFading@reddit
Remember that South Park episode where everyone enjoys smelling their own farts? That's what I think of when I hear Linux user. They don't do themselves any favors trying to change that perception either. Let the down votes commence.
rbmorse@reddit
Asshoes are everywhere. Not endemic to Linux, but we have our share. Welcome to the 21st Century Western civilization...if you want to call it that. In some cases it's an undesirable side-effect of meritocracy, but most of the time it's just assholery from a socially immature individual who is rude because they can get away with it or simply doesn't know better.
Otherwise, keep in mind that that the people who develop Linux and FOSS applications/utilities/drivers owe you...nothing. They get nothing from your use of their efforts and they don't necessarily see your wish list as their problem.
It is a bit insulting to read, "I use this other app on this other platform and when I do A, B happens and to support my preferred work flow your app needs to do the same thing." Well...Bunky, maybe. Maybe not.
A better approach, because all developers are artists at heart and have a creator's ego, is to ask the question: "Is there a way to make folder thumbnail images visible without having to actually access the folder first?" "Is there a way to create a desktop shortcut that will directly open my project?"
Most devs I know don't consider ignorance a sin (unless it's really at gross level) but some get a bit salty when some rando plays the entitlement card. Even it it wasn't you, an earlier provocation may end up making you the victim of a tart response.
ParaboloidalCrest@reddit
It's an American thing. Generally they dramatize and blow everything out of proportions, and they happen to be the majority of Reddit users.
FruityFetus@reddit
I don’t think it’s an American thing at all. I already mentioned my own belief, which is that it’s more a symptom of FOSS, but as far as communication, probably more likely to be the result of non-native English often coming across as more stern/cold.
Kriemhilt@reddit
I don't think coldness is a native/non-native thing, it's a factual/emotional thing.
By all means rant about what you dislike about a DE, distro, or whatever. But don't mix that up with a request for help. Nobody wants to disentangle your actual problem statement from a mess of hyperbole and emotions.
Slight_Manufacturer6@reddit
Because people are toxic in all areas of the internet…. Why would a Linux Reddit be different?
FruityFetus@reddit
It’s an issue I’ve noticed as well, but I think it’s more a symptom of FOSS than Linux itself. Probably a combination of mistaking questions/suggestions with complaints/demands and also people projecting personal programming experience onto others. Best to just ignore those sorts of responses, but also consider filing issues (ideally flagged as requests/suggestions) directly. Plenty of projects appreciate that!
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
Correct. I was asking for if I can create a shortcut and I got the same bs when I said that on windows it was very handy.
phobug@reddit
That’s reddit in general. Try stackoveflow or the ubuntu forums. Better yet look for a Linux User Group (LUG) near you. Google “town name Linux user group”. Those guys are the best, genuinely happy to help anyone with GNU/Linux questions.
Good luck.
Pretty_Boy_Bagel@reddit
Social media imparts an anonymity enabling people to express their inner douchbag. However, being in the physical presence of real people is strong regulator against anti-social behaviors.
Kevin_Kofler@reddit
Have you read rule #1? "r/linux is not a support forum"!
JellyBeanUser@reddit
It's not limited to the Linux communities. I experienced that also in the Apple communities and in several other reddit communities.
pfff....... Desktop shortcuts are not limited to Windows. macOS have them too and so Linux and all other systems.
These kind of users exists everywhere in the internet. Just ignore such toxic users.
Pissed_Armadillo@reddit
+1 and it annoys the shit out of me, especially since half the things those condescending idiots told me are just plain wrong
Free_Spread_5656@reddit
ChatGPT or Grok, probably all LLMs, can assist you a lot, and they won't complain like humans do.
realxeltos@reddit (OP)
Yeah I do try to use them.
rowagnairda@reddit
Cause they spend m9st of their time with rooms without windows... ;D
I'll see myself out...
AdamTheSlave@reddit
Hmm, There's a lot of toxicity on reddit/x/facebook/social media in general these days. Kinda goes with the territory. But I don't see too much in my favorite linux subs, r/archlinux and r/steamdeck But there's always one guy floating around being annoying no matter what sub you are in.
I've heard the, "well code it yourself" line before back in my irc days in the 90's. Or they would say, "Accepting Patches" as another way to say that. I also heard a lot of RTFM back in the day too. So it's not new. Some people just feel superior to other people. A lot of folks these days though just want to help, so I learned to block out the noise from the grumpy old men \^_\^
msears101@reddit
Not just this sub. Reddit attracts toxic people. There is a new skill that is emerging which is the ability to ignore and deal with the toxic people who enjoy slinging their toxic venom,. TO be fair it is not just reddit - but reddit has a nice collection of them.
AvonMustang@reddit
You can submit issues and suggestions to Ubuntu directly - probably more productive than posting to Reddit. I'd read though some of the other submissions to get a feel for how it works before posting...
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+bugs
AvonMustang@reddit
Oh, regarding the previews I somehow have a hate for the thumbs.db file Windows like to spam all over so prefer the way Linux does it...
buttershdude@reddit
Yeah, I feel the same way, but I think that some of the reason the people who ARE the developers get annoyed when people whine about missing features or bugs here is that it isn't always the right place to do so. For instance, for a bug, we really should be going into the Git for that package and entering a bug there where it is an actionable and trackable thing for the actual developer of that package to work to resolve.
Donteezlee@reddit
not everyone is a c++ / Rust systems developer. Some people just want to use it as a daily driver and not face issues or inconveniences which can be categorised as common sense or we are so used to that we wish that Linux had same feature
Being that Linux isnt windows, there is always going to be some inconvenience you’re going to face with software or other things not working correctly, it’s just the name of game.
With that being said,
Most of those issues are very common and well documented either in the wiki, github repo, or elsewhere, but everyone thinks that making a reddit post instead of reading the fucking manual is a better a quicker resource than a quick google search.