Hillary Clinton, 2011: We created Al-Qaida
Posted by Available-Release124@reddit | EndlessWar | View on Reddit | 37 comments
Hillary Clinton admitting the root cause to the very evil terror groups they are fighting.
exoriare@reddit
Zbigniew Brezinski was Carter's National Security Advisor when he got the idea to force the Red Army to "invade" Afghanistan.
Brzezinski's idea was that the Soviet Politburo was full of old white Russian dudes, but Soviet demographics were tilting heavily brown and Muslim. If the US could get the Commies to go into Afghanistan and fight, this might well crack open this fissure in Soviet society.
The US was never "locked" into this struggle - they intentionally created the conflict. They gave money and weapons to illiterate goat-fucking shepherds who were enraged at Commie ideas like equality of the sexes and mandatory education for girls. The US cynically exploited these pious Afghan hillbillies with the hope of fomenting unrest throughout Soviet central Asia.
There was never one moment where US involvement was driven by moral or humanitarian concerns. The US wanted unrest, and these ignorant pious hicks were dumb enough to fight and die on the cheap. Nobody in the US cared that they were weaponizing Islam in a way nobody had ever done before.
Years later, Zbigniew Brezinski was asked if he bore responsibility for creating the Islamist jihadi movement. He happily accepted the credit or blame, because from his perspective, this movement was the thing that ripped apart the Soviet Union.
Which just goes to show, he was effectively as ignorant as the goat-loving hill hicks he gave Stingers to.
1Amendment4Sale@reddit
Those ignorant hicks sure were irrational for not wanting their language, culture, and religion subverted. Like exactly what happened in many Central Asian and Caucus countries. Who wouldn’t want to give up their sovereignty?? Lol what dumbasses amiright?
Disclaimer; not a Russophobe I like Russians a lot actually, but this is a condescending take. Give the Afghans some credit for not bowing to anyone.
exoriare@reddit
The PDPA were Afghans. Or were you proclaiming the divine right to rule of the Afghan monarchy? Or perhaps bemoaning the loss of General Daoud as dictator?
Nope. I've tried, but I don't get what you're on about.
1Amendment4Sale@reddit
So there was a communist party representing a small minority of the country.
You think they had divine right to hand it over to Soviets, like was exactly the case in northern Iran where a fake country was created that’s a pain in everyone’s ass to this day.
exoriare@reddit
Some context here. The leaders of Afghanistan's Commie party were Amin and Taraki. Both of them were army officers who'd gotten their training in the Soviet Union, so they were friendly with the Soviets.
These guys went to the Politburo with their plan for a Commie revolution in Afghanistan. Brezhnev and the Politburo advised against this. In the Soviet view, Afghanistan was still a very tribal and religious primitive society of illiterate subsistence farmers. Communism was a horrible fit for a whole host of reasons. The Soviets advised Amin and Taraki against staging a Commie revolution. They said it would make far more sense to just work on improving literacy.
The Afghan Commies didn't listen, and staged their revolution. Russia advised them to change as little as possible, but this advice was ignored. The PDPA launched a full-blown socialist revolution.
The goat farmers freaked out about these ideas of girls being educated, and tribal leaders hated land reform (because they were usually the biggest land owners). They started protesting. The PDPA responded with violence, killing lots of protesters and hoping this would make the problem to away. It didn't - it got worse. Every time the protests increases, they responded with more violent repression. They started to feel like they were losing control, and asked the Russians to send the Red Army to help.
The Politburo turned down two requests for armed assistance - not because they were deeply moral people, but because they were smart enough to understand that an officially atheist army would likely make things worse. They advised the PDPA to scale back their reforms, but the momentum of the protests was already too great. (This was the period when Brzezinski and ISI started to help the jihadis - Brzezinski wanted shit to fall apart so bad, the Russians would have no choice but to ride in to rescue their Afghan buddies).
Finally it happened - the PDPA lost control of an entire city, and the army garrison sided with the protesters. This was no longer a protest movement, it was a rebellion that had seized its first city. The PDPA responded with all-out violence, killing 3000 people. They put the rebellion down, but it was looking shaky. All this tension resulted in a schism between the two Afghan Commie leaders - Amin fixed this by killing Taraki and assuming sole control.
The problem with this, Taraki had been the smarter of the two, and the one most interested in Moscow's advice to chill the fuck out. Brezhnev personally liked Taraki and saw Amin as a simple brute.
Amin sent one more request to Moscow to send him troops to put down this rebellion. This time, Brezhnev said yes. Russia couldn't allow this madman to keep butchering people in the name of Communism. Somebody had to fix this, and Russia felt they were the ones most responsible for this disaster. The Red Army went into Afghanistan, where their first mission was to kill the stupid bastard Amin, and hope that his removal would help stabilize the country.
By this time a new industry had been born. Rural Afghans were some of the poorest people on the planet. Rural areas still practiced a form of serfdom - you were bound to your clan's land, and no other clan would take you in without your clan's approval. So most people didn't get paid in money - you'd get food, fuel, a plot of land for your own food, and maybe once or twice a year a cash bonus.
So then Pakistan's ISI comes along and offers you cash money every month, and all you have to do is kill foreign atheist commie occupiers. The Pashtun tribes live according to a code that predates Islam, and that code values bravery above all things, along with a duty to expel outsiders. Given a choice between being a broke ass shepherd whose only job benefit was unlimited goat fucking, or being a rich noble warrior, it was easier than hell to recruit as many people as they wanted. And they wanted a lot of people.
From the Soviet perspective, Afghanistan should have been an easy mission. All they had to do was stabilize the situation, and then find some local who could take charge and run Afghanistan in whatever way would be stable. The Soviets weren't going to insist on educating girls or stopping buggery of prepubescent boy or any of the other lovely traditions, they wanted it clean and then they'd get out.
So they meet with all the tribal elders and explain how they have no goal of spreading atheism or the Russian language. They're caretakers only, until they can hand over power. All the tribal elders smile and are very happy, and agree this is a good plan. They leave, and that night their men attack and kill a bunch of Russiam soldiers. Why? Well, they're all being paid well to fight, and you bastards are foreign occupiers after all, so it's honorable to kill you.
Russia was trying to figure this out, and then Brezhnev died. Afghanistan was his baby, and now it's a cluster fuck. So the new guy says "just keep doing what you're doing and pacify the country so we can leave".
This doesn't work of course - Afghan rural guys are living the gangster lifestyle. They're heroes, they're brave and noble, and they're earning more money for their families than they'd get from a whole lifetime of work.
Before the Soviets can figure out a plan, Brezhnev's replacement dies. The new guy sees the cluster fuck and doesn't want it, so he tells the army to continue to pacify until they come up with a better plan. Then that leader dies.
The Soviets had no aspirations for Afghanistan. There were no minerals they didn't have in abundance on their own. Afghanistan would have held two strategic value while Iran was a US proxy, but now Iran was an Islamic state. And Afghanistan was only valuable as a transport corridor in the first place if it was friendly or at least neutral. Amin and Taraki had ruined any chance of that.
Everybody who fought in Afghanistan did so as hired guns for the CIA and ISI. Once you bought off a clan's leader, you bought off the whole clan - their warriors came as a package deal. It was all as corrupt as imaginable - fighters had to pay for their own guns and bullets. (Few had money to start, so they were indebted to their clan leader and further bound to him).
The CIA didn't want peace, nor did ISI. They were paying for a war, and as long as they were paying, the Pashtun were more than happy to be their whores. The wrecking of your country is a small price to pay for the noble life of a brave warrior living by the ancient values of Pashtunwali.
Najibullah was able to get everyone in the north on board - the Uzbeks and Turkmen and Tajiks and Hazara all made peace. The only ones fighting were the ones addicted to CIA crack. (A lot more money started to flow from GCC states, where funding foreign jihad became a popular way for decadent kings and emirs to prove their piety).
Thank you if you've borne with me so far. Despite my infective, I do deplore the tragedy that befell Afghanistan. I don't think the Soviets had that much to do with this tragedy - it was the US that wanted to give Russian "their own Vietnam". They were happy to pay to kill Russians, and they didn't give a damn if Afghanistan was destroyed in the process. Tribal leaders failed their people. If they'd had the smarts to recognize that foreign money could pervert Afghanistan even easier than foreign troops could, this disaster could have been avoided.
irikimoss@reddit
Holy molly! Thank you for the history lesson, I've already saved it locally.
heyhoyhay@reddit
Agreed on how harmful and in the long term, even self-harming USA's machinations are, but Islam hardly needs Brezinski to be militant and hostile towards others. I mean parts of the world that are almost purely Islamic now didn't exactly turned that way peacefully. Afghanistan was invaded by Islamists.
exoriare@reddit
Afghanistan was already largely Muslim when Genghis Khan invaded, but modern Islamism is largely an invention of the CIA/ISI, backed by Wahhabi money. They were the ones who weaponized Islam for use as a proxy force against the officially atheist Soviets.
Undark_@reddit
They did it again in Xinjiang.
Also, I totally agree with you but cool it with the racism. You don't need to refer to rural Afghans as "goat fuckers" to make your point, no matter how reactionary they are.
AverageTankie93@reddit
Beautifully said, comrade
gorpie97@reddit
Recently learned this specifically about Afghanistan. The USSR was there to help the people, and we were not.
Everything I've ever heard the US say about its reasons - for anything - are probably a lie.
mmelectronic@reddit
Nobody was there to help…
gorpie97@reddit
The Soviets may have been there to help the citizens of another country stave off Western imperialists, I don't know. But the US for sure wasn't there to help anyone but itself.
exoriare@reddit
Brezhnev's initial plan was pretty limited. They were more concerned that nobody was going around slaughtering thousands of civilians in the name of Marxism.
But then Brezhnev died, and his successor died, and his successor's successor died. So they spent five years just in crisis management mode before Gorbachev was around long enough to complete the exit.
TarasBulbaNotYulBryn@reddit
Not just that but people ignore the drug operations and the consequences for modern societies. The soviets sent in troops to eradicate the poppy fields. The Central government could not enforce the drug ban on all the remote valleys and that was the original fuse that broke open the conflict before the soviets sent troops.
After the soviets left the jihadis and the drug growers kept abusing the natives but since they lost their western funding one by one villages started rebelling, killing them and their cia handlers and seizing the left over weapons. They called themselves the Taliban and referred to themselves as a nationalist military trying to bring back sovereignty.
By the year 2000 they almost finished eradicating poppy fields and hunted down the majority of the pedophiles. That is when they got invaded and the poppy fields were restored while pedophila was openly proclaimed as a NATO protected act.
Appropriate_Ant_4629@reddit
The US created ISIS too - according to Hamid Karzai and his brother Ahmed were in positions to really know who backed ISIS.
See what they said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Karzai#View_on_ISIS_in_Afghanistan
He was the US's biggest ally in the region for a while; and it's alleged that his brother was also working for the CIA
1Amendment4Sale@reddit
This should be further up.
Gold_Psychology3763@reddit
True.concur
sharavananpa@reddit
Is this why extremist jihad organisations around the world despise America? I kinda feel like they have a reason to. Please correct me if I’m going in the wrong direction!
consmills@reddit
Oh shit who is this lady? Maybe she can galvanize the left against Trump
serpicowasright@reddit
Clinton on Libya:
Demonweed@reddit
She kinda sorta did. Though the final push took place during the sunset pun intended of the Biden administration, Syria suffered from a similar sort of nihilism that has its roots in the Secretary's charade of concern about weapons of mass destruction in "the wrong hands."
fantasyshop@reddit
Cmon, he wears a suit now!
donpaulo@reddit
the 3rd way is a cancer on the US
thefirebrigades@reddit
Why does Iran hate America? They installed the shah and orchestrated an 8 year stalemate between Iran and Iraq, leading to half a million death.
Why does Iraq hate America? Vaguely gesture at everything in the country.
Why does Afghanistan hate America? Taliban, mujahedeen, and 20 years of occupation.
Why does Yemen hate America? Other than the Gaza genocide, they gave Saudis weapons and carried out a long siege and blockade on Yemen.
Why does Libya hate America? We saw, we came, he died. Oh, and open slave markets post NATO bombing.
Why does Syria hate America? Trump is taking the oil! And now isis is their new president.
Are we the baddies? Lol
TheLastSamurai@reddit
Let's see how it goes in Ukraine when we leave after massively arming and they have known fascist elements that will look increasingly appealing to the people as they are abandoned
ametalshard@reddit
and then they created Trump
big__cheddar@reddit
Now talk about Israel funding Hamas
humainbibliovore@reddit
At no point in the video does she said that the US created Al-Qaida. “Funded,” “recruited,” yes. But not created. The US is the biggest terrorist country in the world, we don’t need to misrepresent what its officials say to prove that—engaging in mid- or disinformation only weakens our message
neverendingchalupas@reddit
Carter courted fundamentalist religious wackjobs who were committing acid attacks on women, you know terrorists. And brought them into Afghanistan trained and funded them to fight Afghan rebels backed by Soviets who had overthrown other Afghan rebels backed by Soviets, who overthrew an Afghan regime that was backed by the Soviets.
It doesnt matter what the video says, the reality is, the U.S. created Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. These groups formed from the Mujahideen, the Mujahideen would have never been in Afghanistan or had the military strength to overthrow the Afghans if not for the U.S.
humainbibliovore@reddit
I’m not disputing what you just said. What I take issue with is saying that Hillary Clinton said that the US created Al-Qaida, which she didn’t. It makes us look bad when we lie about or misrepresent what she said.
ttystikk@reddit
We're the baddies
TarasBulbaNotYulBryn@reddit
ttystikk@reddit
Yeah, that.
SendStoreJader@reddit
The subtitles are wrong. She isn’t takin it about isis but the secret service in Afghanistan and Pakistan
Phat_and_Irish@reddit
American arms, money, and persons on the ground in Afghanistan poking and proding local leaders to make moves against the revolutionary Afghan govt before the soviet's ever invaded.
Financial-Adagio-183@reddit
Wow - she is unbelievable. The hubris….