Israel admits firing at ambulances in Gaza after Palestinians say rescuers missing in Rafah

Posted by tallzmeister@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 399 comments

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ODHH@reddit

They didn’t fire on the paramedics, they kettled the ambulances and then executed the paramedics.

Then they crushed the ambulances and buried them with the bodies. There’s satellite images showing them doing this and photos of paramedic helmets with bullet holes in them from the scene.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Can you share the source you mentioned?

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Anandya@reddit

So I think it's hyperbole. But Israel has targeted medicin sans frontier staff and indeed doctors. With little to no repercussions.

https://msf.org.uk/article/west-bank-medical-staff-targeted-and-killed-brutal-incursions?page=select_amount

Doctors without Borders. I worked the region. I have had way more guns pointed at me here than any other space. When I did my tour I had insulin destroyed because the IDF argued that insulin is a lethal poison.

It is. A lot of what I use are poison. Curare, Foxglove, Belladona... Unfortunately that was enough to let Palestinians die.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Again, asking for this specific event. I am aware of some of the others. He said that that there is some footage of IDF rounding up and executing medical workers or similar. Havent seen it yet

Asking to know more, not to know less. Apparently, this is a big no no these days if you have a certain flair

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Anandya@reddit

Sure but I have provided you evidence of Israel targeting medical staff with Nobel Prize winning agency Doctors without Borders documenting attacks on their staff including the purposeful targetting of marked medical facilities. This is a crime against humanity. These are war crimes.

MSF use the word "Vandalism" indicating purposeful targetting of medical equipment and staff.

Okay. Now you know this. What are you doing about this? Your country is openly admitting to committing ethnic cleansing. Like not even couching it in double speak. It's open plan is to force all Palestinians from Gaza for "redevelopment". Not for the Gazans. You are asking for evidence of small crimes when the official stance of Israel and the USA is ethnic cleansing. You can't say it isn't when Israel accepted the American plan and that's the American plan.

And note where the incident happened. Israel can't even state that they accidentally killed a doctor in Gaza because of the fog of war which amazes me how the Taliban didn't hit us and they are a bunch of illiterate goat herders.

This is in the West Bank where someone purposefully killed a doctor. Will Israel try the murderer by International law? No

Israel is an Apartheid State. No different to Rhodesia or Pre-Civil Rights USA or the Raj or South Africa. It does nothing new. Your particular argument is you want to know how it is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhabB-8RxcQ

That's MARKED paramedics being shot at. Either this well trained expert? Shot an 80 year old and targeted paramedics on purpose? Or this poorly trained catastrophe of a man killed an 80 year old and shoots at paramedics on purpose. It's either grotesque villainy or horrific incompetence.

In my experience? IDF forces are barely trained and highly incompetent and live in a racist environment where they don't consider Palestinians to be human and this is enshrined in Israeli law. Part of that is the extremely poor oversight they have and operational rigour. Bad actions are not punished fairly. The first time I went there the IDF murdered a 14 year old girl whose only crime was to CORRECTLY run away from the IDF because they were going to murder her... Multiple people emptied their magazines into her. The deal was everyone doesn't complain too much because the murderers got "apologies and promotions" while the murder victim's family got everyone else healthcare. Then the IDF destroyed insulin... Because that's how oppressors work.

What we are seeing is the murder of Israeli taxpayers. 80% of Palestinian taxes are collected by Israel. Israeli taxpayers who can't vote. And who can be murdered by the state with little to no consequence. Paying for the bullets that kill your children.

Like I said. What do you think happens to diabetics without insulin? How many people do you think died that month due to the destruction of Insulin?

But you did know. How could you not? It's happening in your country. Palestine is not a country. Not when Israelis live in the West Bank and cut up the West Bank through the illegal settlements. It's ethnic cleansing and state sponsored theft. And I get it. Israel is a racist place. It doesn't even treat all Jews equally. I am deeply aware of how Israel treated Ethiopian and Indian Jews. Hell how it treats orthodox Jews and less religious ones. It can't even have internal consistency with its own first class citizens then of course it is going to be a place where Palestinians have less rights.

There's no two state solution possible. Any two state solution would require the removal of Illegal Settlers from stolen land and reparations because it would require the admission that Israel has committed theft. I get loads of people say "truth on the ground" but theft is theft. I can't steal your house and then say Truth on the ground after I shoot your gran.

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Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit

Thank you for the detailed reply, even though the person you replied to admitted they didn't read it.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Great wall of text...

Sorry for reading about 2 percent of it, I think the point is clear.. I dont dispute some of the crimes Israel have been accused for, nor am I aligned with Israeli policy in Gaza and WB (to the most part). I just asked for evidence for a SPECIFIC INSTANCE mentioned above, since the guy said he has it. Thank you for your input and hard work.

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adasiukevich@reddit

I mean it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/hind-rajab-israel-gaza-killing-timeline/

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DorkHarshly@reddit

So you dont need proof?

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adasiukevich@reddit

You're right in that in can't be confirmed without evidence, it's just not difficult to believe given the IDF's history.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

I see a lot of "problematic info" from both sides. From one side we see lots of killed journalists but also we see Al Jazeera subcontractors while in PRESS vest actively participating in 07/10, so they were counted as press while being a combatant. Also lots of disdain that Israel does not allow journalists to enter warzone, you cant have both..

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

…we see Al Jazeera subcontractors while in PRESS vest actively participating in 07/10…

?? Do you have a source for that or is it just a made up justification for Israel spree killing journalists?

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DorkHarshly@reddit

I dont know if you saw my other post but i got a message that it was blocked cause it is on twitter

So replace the url there

https://notxbutsomethingtotallydifferent.com/Israel/status/1722557449775857716

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waiver@reddit

So your complaint is that reporters did their job?

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Strangely, those reporters were immediately dismissed by their respective agencies. So I guess that having preemptive knowledge on Hamas covert ops which was hidden from most of operatives, documenting lynching and murder, invading country illegally etc did not fly well for some reason. If this kind of reporting is legit, what is the complaint about journalists being hurt? They are all but indistinguishable from troops.

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waiver@reddit

Kneejerk reaction, there was no evidence that anyone had "preemptive knowledge" about the attack, but instead anyone can realize when people are gathering against a border to cross it, especially when it took the better part of the day for Israel to react. No idea why you expect them to be as incompetent as the ShinBet or Mossad.

Again you seem to be complaining because they literally did their job.

They are all but indistinguishable from troops.

Except being clearly marked, unarmed and not participating in military activities they are clearly indistinguishable /s

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Some of them maybe clearly marked some are not. You can refer to the pictures to see that where they only have unmarked vest and some just plain clothes. They are moving as embedded in a group of militants so the fact they are unarmed is irrelevant. If IDF would target that group at that moment, they would have either withold the attack or being accused of killing innovent journalists. If you are body shielding militants you are active participant even if you dont kill people directly.

AP and other news companies claimed no previous knowledge, not the man himself. After that AP and CNN cut ties with him.. probably cause he is too legit for them, right?

If you are member of press then you should not be Gonzo-ing in the civilian clothes in close proximity to militants while having invaded another country illegally. Moreso because many of 07/10 perpetrators were in civilan clothing.

Different instance but the point stands.. combatant masked as civilian...

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/f0updf8ild

Lastly HonestReporting despite the cringy name are not secretive about their agenda, yet they have a high factual reporting rating. Higher than the Guardian or MSNBC, Al Jazeera or Fox... for example. So what is your issue with them? That they dont bothside everything?

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waiver@reddit

So you are saying it was dangerous for the journalists? Sure, no doubt about that, that is the risk about being in the thick of the action, probably several died and they were counted as militants by the IDF, vest or not.

AP and other news companies claimed no previous knowledge, not the man himself.

No idea what do you want them to deny, Honestreporting (lol) themselves distanced themselves from the accusations claiming they had no evidence and were just "raising questions", it's just a dumb attempt to distract from the IDF inaction in defending their citizens from a rather obvious attack.

So you are saying they are clearly more realiable because they are open about being propaganda? Because all I see here is them putting a target over journalists for doing their work and making accusations without any evidence.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

So you are saying it was dangerous for the journalists?

No I am saying they are participating actively.

No idea what do you want them to deny

I dont want it, they already denied... having preemptive knowledge. It may be that AP had no preemptive knowledge but it seems that the reporters did. In the heart of covert op, early in the morning, when even not all Hamas arms knew about it at the time. It could be that they all got lucky and by some chance they were at the crossing or near it... But they chose to cross the border, they chose not to wear identifiers and they chose to be in a group with militants.

they are clearly more realiable because they are open about being propaganda

They have an agenda which is a legitimate one (cover media bias towards Israel). It is not less legitimate than to do so for Palestinians or for Swedes or whoever. Everyone should be covered fairly. The fact that they do it does not make them unfair, just not inclusive. It is not my opinion, but of independent fact checkers... They failed zero fact checks in the last 5 years, have better factual rating than many sources you would never call illegitimate. Moreso, they mostly collect links from other sites. I ask again, where do you see an issue?

I could not help but notice that you disregarded the main point about legitimacy of presented evidence. Do you consider unmarked reporters hidden in a group of fighters, who are indulged in military activity a legitimate military target?

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waiver@reddit

No I am saying they are participating actively.

Reporting the news is not "participating actively", nobody, not even HonestReporting.com (lol) has claimed they kidnapped or killed anyone.

but it seems that the reporters did. In the heart of covert op, early in the morning, when even not all Hamas arms knew about it at the time. It could be that they all got lucky and by some chance they were at the crossing or near it

The Gaza strip is 12 km wide, it's not that hard to obtain information about militants moving to the border. AP for instance began receiving updates and media one hour after the attack started.

But they chose to cross the border, they chose not to wear identifiers and they chose to be in a group with militants.

Yes, and they put themselves at risk by doing that, doesn't mean that they were "participating actively".

What I witnessed was a deeply flawed organization making baseless accusations against reporters, leading to threats against their lives. Ultimately, they admitted to having no evidence to support their claims and retreated behind the feeble excuse of "just asking questions." They are, without a doubt, a propaganda machine entirely devoid of journalistic integrity.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

You are misinformed. As I mentioned, participating actively does not mean they carry a gun. It means that they interfere with one of the sides or give advantage to one of the sides. If you provide human shield services as unmarked civilian, if you invade another country while providing PR, you are actively participating. Not a combatant but actively participating. In IDF for example, about 10% are combatants. Another example is the link I posted earlier where medic in a marked vest passes a weapon from one combatant to another. Did he killed anyone? Not directly. Is he a valid target? You tell me.

flawed organization making baseless accusations against reporters, leading to threats against their lives. Ultimately, they admitted to having no evidence to support their claims

What baseless accusations did they make?

Why are you calling them flawed? You just dodged my explanation but keep calling them flawed.

Will you answer the question about whether consider those people a valid target? Maybe some points need explanation if you are struggling.

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waiver@reddit

If you provide human shield services as unmarked civilian,

If they are unmarked they are not really a human shield, are they?

if you invade another country while providing PR, you are actively participating.

Do you mean, reporting the news and documenting a rather important event?

What baseless accusations did they make?

Accused journalists of having previous knowledge about an attack without any evidence

Will you answer the question about whether consider those people a valid target?

I already answered it, but if you have problems reading I said that people in unmarked clothes were there at their own risk

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Let me break it down for you

If they were unmarked they weren't really human shields, were they?

Nope

A **human shield is a non-combatant (or a group of non-combatants) who either volunteers or is forced to shield a legitimate military target in order to deter the enemy from attacking it ...

The term “human shields” describes a method of warfare prohibited by IHL where the presence of civilians or the movement of the civilian population, whether voluntary or involuntary, is used in order to shield military objectives from attack, or to shield, favor or impede military operations

So now we established that they are participating in illegal activity.

Do you mean, reporting the news?

Nope... Thats not the only thing they do.

journalists in war zones must be treated as civilians and protected as such, provided they play no part in the hostilities.

Accused journalists of having previous knowledge

Quote it... In full please.

people in unmarked clothes were there at their own risk

Just to be clear (because you have said ealier that they were clearly marked), were the journalists in question in unmarked clothes or not.

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waiver@reddit

But unmarked people wouldn't serve to shield people from attack normally, much less against the IDF which is extremely Indiscriminate in their attacks.

journalists in war zones must be treated as civilians and protected as such, provided they play no part in the hostilities.

According to your odd definition they cannot avoid participating in hostilities if they are in a war zone.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

My "odd definition" is taken from wiki. Not something out of the ordinary.

And, you are right... it will not shield the people (if Israel decides to strike). That is exactly why using human shield is illegal. That is also why Israeli soldiers, when they are participating in military activity, they put on a uniform and conduct the activity in bases which are removed from civilian buildings. For example, covert ops, where people are disguised as civilians, exempt from protection. Captured soldiers are considered POWs, spys get hanged and have no protection of the law or a limited one.

Ironically that is also why you are calling Israel attacks indiscriminate (not to say I am aligned with Israeli way of conducting this war but major part of the blame goes to Hamas in my opinion).

Journalists can avoid participating in hostilities, they can have clear marking, not break the law (e.g. crossing the border etc), coordinate with their base, not participate in supporting acts (intelligence, supply etc), not carry weapons etc. It is illegal to target journalists but not illegal to kill them (as a collateral damage). As you said, it is a dangerous job.

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

The linked tweet doesn’t support your claim.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

It does support the claim that subcontractors worked tightly with Hamas.

As I mentioned I could not find the exact photo I was thinking of.

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

No, it doesn’t. You’re simply throwing things at the wall and hoping no one checks your sources.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Please let me know what do you see... maybe you need some help with understanding.

Here is another source which concentrated a bunch of such events.

https://honestreporting.com/photographers-without-borders-ap-reuters-pictures-of-hamas-atrocities-raise-ethical-questions/

Let me know if you need help with this. One love.

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

HonestReporting or Honest Reporting is an Israeli media advocacy group.[1] A pro-Israel media watchdog,[2][3] it describes its mission as "combat[ting] ideological prejudice in journalism and the media, as it impacts Israel".[1]

I think you need to examine your media diet, and start consuming trustworthy nonpartisan news.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Lol.. thats ad hominem fallacy. We are getting to the fallacy bingo.

But I expected that... HonestReporting is an Israeli media but... GASP it is rated higher than the Guardian and MSNBC, and on the same level as CNN in factual reporting. They have zero failed fact checks in the last 5 years.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/honest-reporting/

So this is quite healthy media diet ... Nom nom. Now you can read it without fear ;)

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

I see that you are engaging in the “fallacy fallacy” where you substitute (attempting to) label counterarguments and criticisms as fallacious instead of arguing a point.

Here’s a quote from the site you linked:

Overall, we rate HonestReporting Right-Center Biased based on support for right-leaning nationalist political parties. We also rate them as Mostly Factual rather than High due to the promotion of nationalist propaganda

And that’s exactly the criticism I made (so good job, you played yourself). It is a biased source with a specific, nationalist point of view and reports only facts that support that point of view.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

For each fallacy I mention, I refer to the argument. The fact that I call it a name before I answer it is not hurting my argument. It just pisses you off because it has a name.

For example, instead of answering the content of the second site I provided, you attacked the source. You COULD address the argument, but since you were cornered in your argument and fearing that you might get out of echo chamber and change your mind or admit a mistake, you are trying to make my argument irrelevant.

This tactic is nothing original, it has a name. It is called ad hominem. And now on to the argument.

The site specifically mention that they failed zero fact checks, rate them higher than FOX, MSNBC etc. Their bias (not something fringe but gasp center-right) could be that they choose to cover Israel rather then Palestine so now they are biased in their coverage. I think you stopped reading in the exact point where it was convenient for you.

They specifically state that they deal with unfair media coverage of Israel. Which is as fair cause as unfair coverage of Palestinians. You want fair coverage of everything. This means absolutely nothing of the accuracy of their reporting. It just means that

Do you have any actual criticisms of the videos and links which were mentioned in the evil evil HonestReporting page? Cause if you were interested in finding the truth, you could press on one of the many many links in the page and be free in the safe waters of the external link leading you outside to AP news or Guardian or NY Times so you can examine the facts and decide whether they make sense. Do take your time ;)

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

It just pisses you off because it has a name.

It’s absolutely hilarious that you think your little bad faith arguments could move me to any sort of emotion, much less anger. When you grow up, you’ll learn that peppering your arguments with insults makes you look foolish.

instead of answering the content of the second site I provided, you attacked the source.

And here you show your ignorance. Ad hominem is an attack on the maker of an argument based on their identity. that would mean I would be attacking you.

This is a very simple distinction, and the fact that I have to explain it to you tells me that you aren’t educated enough to be discussing anything as complicated as Israel/Palestine lol.

The site specifically mention that they failed zero fact checks, rate them higher than FOX, MSNBC etc.

You say that as if I’d trust FOX’s reporting LMAO. Try harder please.

Their bias (not something fringe but gasp center-right) could be that they choose to cover Israel rather then Palestine so now they are biased in their coverage.

Now you’ve shown me that you didn’t read your own source, because it explains the bias clearly. Why are you linking source documents you didn’t read?

I think you stopped reading in the exact point where it was convenient for you.

I don’t think you read much of anything you link.

They specifically state that they deal with unfair media coverage of Israel.

“Unfair” here meaning “critical of Netanyahu, settlers, war crimes, etc.”

For the Israeli nationalist far-right, some of whom are close to the Nazi party in ideology, there is no distinction between criticism of policy and criticism of the Jewish people.

Do you have any actual criticisms of the videos and links which were mentioned in the evil evil HonestReporting page? Cause if you were interested in finding the truth

It’s your source, you are obliged to defend its merits.

Imagine if I told you to disprove everything Al-jazeera published, and that it was trustworthy unless you could provide specific evidence otherwise. Lmao you need to try harder, there are far more talented trolls on this website.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

A lot of it is "Yeah we broke the rules before, and that should strip our protections, but nah you're evil if you attack the vehicles we we use for troop transports"

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Did not quite get it

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-says-hit-an-ambulance-being-used-by-hamas-2023-11-03/

Hamas has long documented history of using whatever flag or symbol on their military equiment they think makes it 'immune from attack'

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adasiukevich@reddit

I don't believe something just because the IDF says it's true, they need to provide proof. They've literally admitted to doing this themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/14/suddenly-there-was-a-car-of-men-the-day-israeli-soldiers-attacked-a-refugee-camp

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Yep I saw a few of these.

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axeteam@reddit

journalists/reporters repeatedly get targeted and killed, then you get people wondering why sources can be hard to find

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adasiukevich@reddit

True, I believe 208 journalists have now been killed by the IDF in Gaza. Just insane.

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Virtual-Pension-991@reddit

That still is a dangerous territory to become familiar with, no matter how much of an arse and shyte they are.

I've been there, done that. It ends up affecting the way you think.

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NovaKaizr@reddit

Yes, which would be a lot easier if Israel allowed in independent journalists and investigators. Until they do they have no right to call anything coming out of Gaza misinformation

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DorkHarshly@reddit

But since it is a warzone, wouldnt it put them in danger?

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NovaKaizr@reddit

Yes, but that is war reporters specialize in. It is literally in their job description

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Literally half of the posts here is about journalists casualties.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

Yeah? Because it's clear Israel doesn't want what they're doing there to be reported or investigated because they know what would turn up if they allowed in forensic investigators, and they're trying to prevent it as long as possible hoping physical forsenic evidence deteriorates. It's one of the biggest crime scenes in the world.

If you can allow in aid workers and doctors, there's no reason why teams of forensic investigators can't be allowed in, it's just blatantly obvious.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Maybe. Or maybe warzone is a dangerous place to be.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

Then why are international aid workers allowed in? It's an utterly incoherent justification.

Do they carry a unique aura around them that protects them from IDF munitions? Because I think WCK would have a thing or two to say about that.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Aid workers die too.

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

Aid workers die… when Israel bombs their convoys.

Bet you’ll claims this one is a lie too.. Or worse, you’ll say that there was nothing wrong with killing aid workers, because they’re “feeding hamas” or some such.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

How do they die?

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DorkHarshly@reddit

In warzone, I would imagine, in a vast variety of ways.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

You and I both know that's a load of shit.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

It seems that you have more experience than myself. I have just a bit.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

Israel bombs them and calls them 'terrorists'(in the hundreds of aid workers and journalists combined), and the evidence they provide, on the rare occasion they do, are extremely suspect like when they release purported Hamas internal documents that are in Arabic and English(why would a internal document for purely internal use be in any languag other then Arabic?), or simply a PDF file with a Hamas logo and their ID number(of which registry Israel controls anyways and isn't open to the public to verify) that have metadata in Hebrew.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Dont quite get your point. Have Israel admitted mistakes in the past? Have Hamas?

Do we have footage on 07/10? Yes. Donwe have footage on Israeli bombings? Yes.

Have Israel provided insufficient evidence on some stuff? Sure. Have they provided sufficient on some other stuff? Also, yes.

Our disagreement is you trust Hamas blindly. I think we are aligned on the rest.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

Trust Hamas? LOL! I believe civilians are civilians until they are definitively proven otherwise. I guess that's the difference here.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

So whats the issue with my asking for proof?

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

Huh? Proof of what?

To reiterate, I'd like for you to give a rational explanation why international aid workers are allowed but forensic investigators are not allowed in.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Proof of what?

I now realised that I have been talking to more than one person... I meant that journalists in warzone get hurt an there is a cryout about that, but when they are forbidden to get in, there's cryout about that as well.

To answer your question: I dont know what is specific reason Israel used but there are bunch of rational explanations: Aid workers is saving lives immediately and reporters do not, aid workers operate in designated areas and journalists on the frontlines, aid workers are impartial and journalists may represent agendas, aid workers are irreplaceable and journalists can and are being replaced by phone footage etc.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

I'm not talking about journalists. I'm talking about forensic investigators who document and preserve physical evidence of crimes that may have been perpetrated in Gaza.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

All but last arguments apply.

And also I think there are some of them operating, not sure how deep, I specifically recall them working on Al Ahli hospital blast which was initially blamed on Israel.

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

All but last arguments apply.

You were talking about journalists, not forensic investigators. Forensic investigators have no replacement(not that your argument makes any sense regardless as explained below), that's why law enforcement don't let random people catalogue crime scenes after there have been a crime committed.

journalists in warzone get hurt an there is a cryout about that

They don't "get hurt", they get bombed. It's absolutely trivial to keep track of people in less surveilled places then the Gaza Strip using signal intelligence since they always have their phone on and you can use a variety of techniques from utilizing all the phone towers that Israel has tapped to triangulate their location, or they can track their IMEI number across the entire strip among many, many other techniques that Israel has so saying that "it's too risky" for forensic investigators is hysterical since it's arguably the most surveilled place on the planet and there's zero chance that they lose track of them.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

All but last arguments apply.

Forensic investigators have no replacement - yes this was the last argument.

They don't "get hurt", they get bombed.

They get bombed for sure, but if you are thinking that they only get hurt by one side, that is incorrect. For example, https://www.gov.il/en/pages/testimonies-from-gaza-and-hamas-intimidation-of-foreign-journalists

As I said I cannot comment on if and why Israel decided to not allow forensic investigators inside Gaza (although as I mentioned I have seen some of those so not sure if the access forbidden or limited...), what I listed some plausible reasons. I understand that you think that this is done to hide something and I cannot rule that claim out but being convinced in that without proper evidence is indication of your biases. Warzone is chaos.

Personally, I think, that the less civilians there are in urban area warzone where guerilla fighters known for using human shields reside, the better. The evidence of crimes on both sides is abundant...

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

I don't think it's a very high bar allowing people who A) have a specific mandate and purpose for being there B) Are informed that it's done at their own risk.

I think it's totally reasonable to assume that Israel is prohibiting international access for a strategic purpose since if there's nothing to see there, why not A) comply with the court order in the South Africa vs Israel genocide case where international investigators are explicitly mentioned that they should gain access B) be seen as transparent as possible and gain more objective information like investigating the Ministry of Health death number C) Not to be seen in the same league as Sudan that also prohibits journalists because they would collect objective evidence that can be used to establish facts regarding the many, many war crimes being committed there.

Again, if the concern was genuine about killing people they wouldn't allow foreign medical personnel in, since we saw recently where it was pure luck that one american doctor wasn't in the same room that Israel directly hit at the hospital they struck since they were about to check on patients in that room.

If critically examining conduct vs claimed justification and pointing out that they're utterly incompatible makes be 'biased', then I think it may not be me having a issue of bias but you.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

I dont have a problem with most of your assumptions but those must be treated as assumptions.

One point: from what I have seen your point A is what was submitted as request by SA. The actual court order said: ensure preservation and prevent destruction.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa%27s_genocide_case_against_Israel

If critically examining conduct vs claimed justification and pointing out that they're utterly incompatible makes be 'biased', then I think it may not be me having a issue of bias but you.

Not sure why you saying this unless you have some expertise. Otherwise the difference between my "critical examination" and yours is that you rate opinion higher (a.k.a. embrace your bias) ;)

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

Let's have a look at the actual court order.

Take effective measures to ensure the unimpeded access to the Gaza Strip of any commission of inquiry, fact-finding mission or other investigative body mandated by competent organs of the United Nations to investigate allegations of genocide;(Note: PDF file)

The decision was 13 to 2, and injuctions by the ICJ are legally binding.

No such investigation has been allowed to date.

Regarding my opinion and my assumptions, do you expect Israel to come out and say "yeah we're prohibiting investigators because we're afraid they'll find evidence of systemic war crimes perpetrated by us and that it will be used against us"?

Unless that's the standard you use, I think the best objective measurement of what the actual reason is by seeing if the behavior is consistent with the justification, and when it comes to it being about the safety of international journalists/forensic investigators I think as a objective matter it's just not the case when you're striking hospitals where international aid workers are and that it was purely luck a American citizen wasn't killed.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Let's have a look at the actual court order.

Is your quote from point 14.2? I wasnt sure, since you did not post the article... if so, this is South African request (see point 14). The court order on the subject was mentioned in 5.5. Am I missing something?

Regarding my opinion and my assumptions, do you expect...

I am not defending Israel, I am just saying that this way of thinking is not different from some settler seeing the same article and going "my echo chamber showed me in the past proof that Hamas used ambulances for transporting militants therefore it can be brushed off as a lie". They would have very similar process of thought.

I think as a objective matter

I'd refrain from using "objective" when expressing your opinion.

when you're striking hospitals

Somebody on a side opposite to yours would mention militants in hospitals (of which theres proof in a totally different occasion) and brush it off as reasonable tactics.(Using your logic only)

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your_red_triangle@reddit

or maybe they know they'll kill them, because the terrorist IDF are allowed to target anyone for any reason. Case and point the world food kitchen aid workers that were tracked down and murdered by drone strikes.

Everyone is classed as Khamas, doctors, journalists, aid workers, children, women, even hostages holding white flags. All have been murdered by the IDF terrorists.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Great strawmanning.

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NovaKaizr@reddit

Yes, because Israel keeps labelling them as terrorists and killing them. That would be harder to do if they weren't Palestinian

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Israel is damned if they go in and if they dont.

Personally, I think, when everyone have camera in their phone they are not as needed as before. We get a bunch of video evidence from both sides.

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ProbablyNotTacitus@reddit

Yet you ask for sources when you get those videos so the world literally cannot accuse the IDF of things even recorded in videos

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DorkHarshly@reddit

What? Dude said he saw footage, I asked to see it. I dont understand what is so bad about it?

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NovaKaizr@reddit

I don't buy that. Israel is actively trying suppress and discredit anything that comes out of Gaza, calling it all Hamas propaganda. The fact that anything is getting out of Gaza, an area where electricity and fuel is being blocked, is incredible. What is getting out is also almost certainly only a fraction of what is going on.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Some of it is Hamas propoganda and some other stuff is indisputable. There is Israli phone coverage over most of Gaza. You can see a lot of footage today from civilians.

Anyway, I fail to see how all this goalpost moving has to do with me asking for a proof from a 5 m/o ascount who claims he saw the satellite footage.

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GravityMyGuy@reddit

Well yes because Israel targets journalists and those people are still willing to go.

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SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit

Israel chooses if it's a war zone. Just stop invading and genocidin', and look at that, no more war zone.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Ever heard of 07/10? It was ceasefire at that point of time... and suddenly - warzone. Bad Israel /s

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SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit

Classic bad hasbara of history not existing before October 7th.

Maybe don't genocide, displace, ethnically cleanse, oppress, and colonize a people and they won't attack you, idk. Guess Israel should try that out.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

I though you were talking about warzone. It was not warzone before 07/10. Do you wish to conclude this conversation and move to something else?

Or is it "go random shit" moment?

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SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit

Being a crazy zionist really does melt your brain.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Good strawmanning. Care to respond?

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but it is not an extraordinary claim that the IDF is engaged in war crimes.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

I will not dispute that, you do distinguish between geteral statement and this specific instance, right?

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

The burden of proof is on the accuser; however, I am not going to exercise excessive skepticism when so many war crimes are already documented.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

This means that if Israel committed crime before, it is forever to blame for all accusations.. . Kinda dangerous strawmanning... Cause you know, Israel is not the only one who've been caught red handed.

Also, if a person claim to have evidence, asking for it does not seem excessive. Just reasonable.

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

This means that if Israel committed crime before, it is forever to blame for all accusations.. . Kinda dangerous strawmanning...

The irony here is that you’ve presented a strawman.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

What is "you did something bad therefore all you ever do bad" then?

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

Clearly you didn’t understand the following:

The burden of proof is on the accuser; however, I am not going to exercise excessive skepticism when so many war crimes are already documented.

I don’t know how this could be more clear, but even assuming good faith on your part, it clearly means “Israeli forces have committed so many war crimes, so consistently, that an additional claim of war crimes does not strain credulity. It should be supported with evidence, but I am not personally a court of law.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

You are entitled to your opinion.

Personally, I have seen so much misinformation during this conflict that I consider each event unconfirmed until I verify it to some extent which I consider sufficient.

To present one point, I have seen 3 or 4 instances of Israel being accused in bombing hospitals where it was not them in Al Shifa instance and twice there were militants that were residing in the hospitals. It does not mean that I automatically think that bombing hospitals is ok.

Israel is like Russia in this way.

Unlike Russia, Israel were able to admit multiple mistakes and misdeeds: several events of friendly fire, misindifications of civilians as militants, killing of civilians etc. There is a system of checks and balances in place, imperfect as it may be. Unlike Hamas and Russia who never or rarely "imperfect", this should provide some credibility. Not to say that we should not remain sceptical.

I will try to get my eyes on evidence at every event I can, as I am afraid to be in echo chamber. But if you sleep well knowing you may accuse someone innocent, you do you. I am a liberal and it does not align with my values.

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Call_Me_Clark@reddit

Unlike Hamas and Russia who never or rarely "imperfect", this should provide some credibility.

If your actions only look acceptable in comparison to Hamas or Russia, then there is something seriously wrong. No such credibility is owed or due.

I am a liberal and it does not align with my values.

We get plenty of folks who claim “I’m totally a liberal, but this Donald Trump guy is right about everything. I was liberal until the left left me!”

So if you’re really a liberal, I’ll see it reflected in your activity. If you only ever show up to defend extremism of any nationality or ethnicity or religion, then I’ll assume you’re an embarrassed extremist.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

If your actions only look acceptable in comparison to Hamas or Russia...

I mentioned Russia because you mentioned it, Hamas because it is relevant to the conflict. I assume Israel compares well to many other countries in a similar situation. What you are doing is called masked man fallacy.

If you only ever show up to defend extremism of any nationality or ethnicity or religion

My summer child, I hope you did not waste too much time reading through my comments... but maybe you managed to add somethinb to your education. I almost exclusively comment where I can contribute, otherwise I use the arrows... Recently, I do respond more in cases where I see double standards towards Jews and Israel. But yet, you can see me respond to the right wing on civil liberties, for example on judicial reform in Israel quite recently... Maybe you need help to decide which POV is liberal? Or maybe you need some more. Keep at it, you will get there ;)

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DorkHarshly@reddit

If your actions only look acceptable in comparison to Hamas or Russia...

If you only ever show up to defend extremism of any nationality or ethnicity or religion

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ProbablyNotTacitus@reddit

Why do you need proof when IDF admit it? It feels like you’re setting your whataboutism hasbara run here buddy.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

I just asked to see it, .. havent seen IDF statement on it. Usually they post it on their site.

So whats the issue with what I said?

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ProbablyNotTacitus@reddit

The fucking news article in front of you includes it bro

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DorkHarshly@reddit

What OP said is something totally different in the footage. Not something (that guardian say) IDF confirmed.

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ChipsTheKiwi@reddit

Kinda hard to gather the proof when Israel has slaughtered more journalists than were killed in Vietnam and WWII combined

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DorkHarshly@reddit

The dude said he saw the proof, and suddenly I am the asshole for asking to see it.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

Almost like there's consequences for using ambulances as military transport.

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madra_uisce2@reddit

The ambulance bombed by Israel in the killing of Hind Rajab belonged to the Red Crescent, which is the name for Red Cross in Muslim majority nations. The Red Cross and Red Crescent Society are an international organisation of mostly volunteer medics who are humanitarian workers, it is incredibly insulting for you to suggest the two humanitarian workers slaughtered by Israel were militants.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

Ah yes the red crescent, taxi drivers for HAMAS after doing humiliation ceremonies to release hostages.

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madra_uisce2@reddit

Those 2 medics were volunteer paramedics, and Israel slaughtered them as they tried to rescue a 5 year old girl, who the Israeli army left for dead after slaughtering her family in front of her. There are recordings of her calls for help. The Israeli forces bombed the ambulance CLEARED to rescue her.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

Ah well, shouldn't have been driving a vehicle used by HAMAS for troop transport.

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madra_uisce2@reddit

A fucking ambulance? Have you lost your mind? 3 separate investigations, independent ones (and maybe a 4th by Israel itself I can't recall) found that the 2 medics were the only occupants of that ambulance before it was shelled by Israeli militants. This was all proven and publicly available information. Ah well? The Israeli army left a 5 year old child for dead surrounded by her entire dead family, and killed anyone who tried to rescue her. This is a drop in the ocean of horrors Palestinian children have faced and you just shrug it off as 'Ah well?'

Baffles me how people justify medics and children being slaughtered, gold medal mental gymnastics there.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

Oh yeah, terrible tragedy. Still the fault of HAMAS.

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madra_uisce2@reddit

I'm hoping you're a bot because your lack of empathy astounds me. Hamas didn't make Israel slaughter a family as they followed evacuation orders. They didn't make those soldiers blow up an ambulance cleared to rescue a child. Those monsters did that all by themselves and have been killing and beating Palestinian children for decades. Hamas didn't spring out of the ground like daisies, they are a product of the treatment of Palestinians for decades.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

I'm hoping you're a bot because advocating for rewarding violations of the rules of war, such as taking hostages and using child suicide bombers, is a position that should only come about through unfeeling machinery.

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madra_uisce2@reddit

All I am saying is that the Israeli soldiers who murdered those medics and children are evil, but if that equates to advocating for war crimes in your mind then this conversation is dead in the water.

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waiver@reddit

So I guess you believe all Israeli ambulances are free game for all the eternity since the IDF has used them before? Man, this is your job, at least put some effort.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

So what?

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adasiukevich@reddit

Were there consequences for this?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/14/suddenly-there-was-a-car-of-men-the-day-israeli-soldiers-attacked-a-refugee-camp

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B_eyondthewall@reddit

unfortunately there's no consequences for lying, that's why you keep doing it

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self-assembled@reddit

I saw the drone video of the ambulances being rounded up as well but can't find it. But the UN has now viewed the evidence from the red crescent and its causing an uproar. The IDF shot them all point blank and tried to bury the bodies and ambulances. Now the IDF admits to it and just says "hamas".

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

Well what more does Israel need to say? Those who condemn israel at this point will condemn israel no matter what it does or doesn't do, so... why should the condemnation matter? Nobody's willing to send their own people to help the palestinians, so it's just petulance and posturing.

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happycow24@reddit

Well what more does Israel need to say? Those who condemn israel at this point will condemn israel no matter what it does or doesn't do, so... why should the condemnation matter? Nobody's willing to send their own people to help the palestinians, so it's just petulance and posturing.

Most moral army in the world: "haters gonna hate and accuse us of warcimes so we might as well commit them fr fr"

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

I'm not saying they're the most moral army, who is saying that?

Naw naw, they're a bunch of bastards. that's what happens when you have countries around you advocating for the death of your children. That's how you're supposed to fight when people want to wipe you from the earth and enslave your children.

Israel has tried every peace option short of digging a ditch and kneeling before it while those who wish them dead get to walk behind with a sharp blade. Now there's only one fully functional response for the sake of peace: artillery.

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your_red_triangle@reddit

Khamas could say exactly the same this then...

that's what happens when you have Israel around you advocating for the death of your children. That's how you're supposed to fight when people want to wipe you from the earth and enslave your children.

congratulations you're supporting Khamas.

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waiver@reddit

Yeah, imagine condemning Israel just because it rounded up ambulances and executed paramedics.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Where, did you see it? Some people say the saw it but nobody can produce it. Fear that they might be bots

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waiver@reddit

There is a satellite image that shows the ambulances rounded up and surrounded by IDF vehicles, no signs whatsoever of the Hamas vehicles that Israel mentioned in their lies.

https://imgur.com/a/GfafwHV

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Oh I thought it would be something that would be readable or shareable. Thanks.

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waiver@reddit

Well there is that, but you will complain about the source being Al-Jazeera even though it's a satellite image https://aje.io/7xd759?update=3609437

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DorkHarshly@reddit

I cannot see what you shared. Al Jazeera is blocked Israel.

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waiver@reddit

Satellite image shows Israeli army surrounding missing Red Crescent and civil defence rescuers in Rafah A Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) rescue team will return to Rafah in southern Gaza today to continue the search for nine missing ambulance crew members.

Late on Friday, the PRCS said the fate of their missing staff members remained unknown for a sixth day as it accused Israeli forces of deliberately obstructing search efforts in Rafah.

“So far, no trace of our team members has been found. Yesterday, we discovered the four ambulance vehicles completely destroyed and buried in the sand,” the organisation said.

Al Jazeera’s Sanad fact-checking agency obtained exclusive satellite image showing the Israeli army surrounding the civil defence and PRCS vehicles in which the missing emergency workers were travelling.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Thanks, will try to look for other sources.

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luminatimids@reddit

Yeah wtf is that’s dude’s mental gymnastics.

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waiver@reddit

It was in the liveblog of Al Jazeera but it got buried already.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

Where did you see it, cant seem to find it?

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Logements@reddit

Unfortunately, along with 208 journalists in Gaza the source was murdered by the Israeli Occupation Forces.

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DorkHarshly@reddit

They saw the satellite foortage and then murdered?

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waiver@reddit

There is a satellite image of the ambulances rounded up in instagram, just add:

/aljazeeraenglish/p/DHtkpPpzwPS/

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ACoderGirl@reddit

This photo is not available in your country.

And the why

We received a legal request to restrict this content. We reviewed it against our policies and conducted a legal and human rights assessment.

Though if it's what you're thinking of, I found what might be a mirror at https://xcancel.com/SuppressedNws/status/1905391060160753670.

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waiver@reddit

Is this image: https://xcancel.com/SuppressedNws/status/1905338986165338139

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waiver@reddit

The rounded up ambulances that the IDF later destroyed, surrounded by IDF vehicles. There are no other vehicles nearby as Israel claimed.

No mention to whatever happened to all the paramedics and civil defense personnel who are missing.

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cobalt358@reddit

That works, thank you. Are IG links banned here?

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waiver@reddit

Seem so, tried posting one and got the same message as when you post twitter

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

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Nice__Spice@reddit

Are you denying that israel has committed atrocities time and time again? And that with only proof for the 100th you'll believe that it happened?

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Indubioprobumm@reddit

Here is a source for the IDF using ambulances to carry soldiers. Every accusation is usually a confession with the IDF, just like Trump, same degenerate‘s playbook.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

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warnie685@reddit

Agreed, if there's a source and it's really so damning then it needs to be shared.. a Reddit post isn't good enough.

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CumulativeFuckups@reddit

Hinds' last voice recording lives in my heart as a testimony to Israeli barbarism. Israel is and always was a genocidal terror state supported by Western imperialism and colonial oppression.

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Kazataniplayer@reddit

It is unfortunate that war causes such anguish, but after seeing how hamas uses every piece of civilian infrastructure they can get their hand on as a military asset, including ambulances and hospitals, I simply can't feel much sympathy for gazans.

Especially after how they celebrated October 7th, or the disgraceful "ceremonies" they held to parade the Israeli hostages, living and dead, before the rest of gaza and the whole world.

I have no doubt that Israel with investigate most (hopefully all) of the violations the IDF committed, but I can't say the same for hamas or the gazans who have never truly taken responsibility for any wrongdoing.

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Sorry-Transition-780@reddit

The existence of someone with such a warped understanding of conflict and such a low level of empathy for the victims of their government's crimes is a damning indictment of humanity itself. Nevermind the fact that you have the confidence to post that opinion online.

You are playing advocate in a genocide. You don't understand morals or ethics- your world view is so skewed as to being rendered meaningless.

October the 7th was bad and you seem to be able to recognise that. What's happening in Gaza has 50 times the casualties at least.

When you start equivocating the former as being worse than the latter, it's quite clear that you don't view the victims of one as human. You are the one with no issues with an attack 50 times worse than October 7th.

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apistograma@reddit

Just ask any Zionist at which number they'd consider Israel has killed too many Palestinians.

They NEVER answer. I tried so many times. They don't want to say it out loud but they have no limit. So it's not like an Israeli is worth 50 Palestinians, it's that Palestinian lives have no value at all for them.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Ask the allies in WW2 at what arbitrary number of German civilian deaths they should stop fighting the Nazis.

There is no answer to such a question because the premise is wrong

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JHarbinger@reddit

Bingo. Wonder if you’ll get downvoted for saying this even though you’re German.

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apistograma@reddit

So you think there's no limit to how many Israeli civilians you can kill in order to stop Israeli expansion?

Or is this just for non Jews?

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JHarbinger@reddit

Hitler tried that already. Almost worked. Thankfully it didn’t. Palestinians might not be so lucky, given how things are going. Terrible situation all-around.

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apistograma@reddit

Wtf you are saying that Israel could be more genocidal than Hitler.

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JHarbinger@reddit

Not sure how you made that leap. I’m saying they could push the Palestinians out completely, which seems to be the plan.

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_MonteCristo_@reddit

Your comment, and the one you replied to initially, said nothing about forcing jews out. And in fact they barred Jews from leaving the third reich when the Shoah was in full swing. Therefore the reasonable conclusion is that when you said 'Hitler tried that already. Almost worked. Thankfully it didn’t. Palestinians might not be so lucky,...' that you were implying the genocide of Palestinians. That's the most obvious textual interpretation. If that wasn't your intention you should have clarified, rather than insult other people's reading comprehension.

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JHarbinger@reddit

Nope- that’s exactly what I said. The Palestinians might be the victims of genocide here. Not sure why you’re confused.

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apistograma@reddit

Yeah, "push".

Pal you're comically bad at lying. Everyone can see what you meant, Zionists and non Zionists.

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JHarbinger@reddit

you're so far up your own ass, I can't even understand what you're talking about. bye.

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apistograma@reddit

Yeah, that's why you're leaving. Bye bye keep being genocidal somewhere else

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adasiukevich@reddit

You got downvoted for talking nonsense.

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JHarbinger@reddit

Nah. This sub just loves black & white thinking. Overabundance of kids here and people light on history and geopolitics.

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_MonteCristo_@reddit

I'm sure you're happy to apply black and white thinking when discussing October 7th, that specific day. But every since then, oh everything is shrouded in nuance and moral relativism and who's to say really, it's all so complicated.

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JHarbinger@reddit

Keep strawmanning guys. Eventually you’ll win the arguments you’re having with… yourselves.

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adasiukevich@reddit

No you were talking nonsense. Him being German doesn't mean his opinion isn't garbage.

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JHarbinger@reddit

Ah of course. Some random nobody who knows nothing of history has a more valuable opinion of course 🤡

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adasiukevich@reddit

And what makes him not "Some random nobody who knows nothing of history"? Did the allies raid hospitals without evidence, starve an entire population, kill children playing in refugee camps, kill aid workers, use human shields... I could go on and on.

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JHarbinger@reddit

Go on and on then. Must have missed the civilian death count while you slept through history class. You’re certainly missing his point now

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adasiukevich@reddit

Do I need to go on and on? Isn't that enough for you? At what point would you start holding Israel accountable?

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JHarbinger@reddit

Nobody is even talking about not holding them accountable. I mean, aside from you guys crying in the thread and looking for a reason to get upset at everyone.

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adasiukevich@reddit

I'm not looking for a reason to get upset, reading about children dying naturally upsets me. It's called being human.

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JHarbinger@reddit

I’ll try that sometime.

Honestly, it seems hopeless and likely the best solution is a decisive victory by one side over the other.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

most definitely. There's a ton of people here who have swalloed the Pro Hamas Kool Aid

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Iggy-J-Reilly@reddit

“Pro Hamas Kool Aid”

This is a thread responding to the deliberate targeting of emergency workers in which most comments are condemning the needless loss of civilian life. Equating that to supporting Hamas is simply evil because if you follow it to its logical conclusion, all civilians are Hamas and so are legitimate targets. Where is your humanity?

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

This is a thread responding to the deliberate targeting of emergency workers

This is a lie.

The article states that IDF soldiers were fighting Hamas and PIJ and during the fighting also engaged people who were later identified as emergency workers.

This is not deliberate targeting. This is accidentally hitting the wrong people while in active urban combat.

Immediately spinning any and all tragic accidents as 'evil Israel determined to wipe out every Palestinian' is in line with Hamas propaganda

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_MonteCristo_@reddit

Well it says the IDF claims that's what they were doing. Even the western press is starting to not uncritically repeating everything they say as fact. And maybe they were in this specific case, it's hard to know because Israel is blocking all journalists into Gaza, and killing those already there. But there are plenty of other examples of the IDF being proven to have lied about this sort of thing, so it is reasonable to be skeptical about their claims now.

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Iggy-J-Reilly@reddit

“Immediately”

This isn’t immediate. It’s been fifteen long and painful months during which a mountain of “tragic accidents” such as the withholding of aid, dismantling of healthcare infrastructure and indiscriminate bombing of civilians have occurred before our eyes with full encouragement from Israeli leaders.

Report after report from NGO’s and humanitarian organisations have documented this in detail. I suppose you missed the coverage from ynet this week which revealed after the horrible massacre on October 7th, Netanyahu mentioned to his chief of staff that he wasn’t “interested in targets” and to “take down houses. Bomb with everything you have”.

But yeah, war is hell and everybody is hamas blah blah blah

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Ala117@reddit

As if you're not swallowing the pro idf, settlers and natenyahu Kool aid right now.

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adasiukevich@reddit

Literally every single time Israel commits a war crime you comment on here "but the allies un WW2". It's like your only argument (and it's a dumb one).

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Literally every single time Israel commits a war crime you comment on here

The problem is that Israel gets hate for acts that are completely normal in war. People screech about 'warcrime this warcrime that' when the IDF commit warcrimes but also when the IDF commit actions that are pretty normal in warfare.

The easiest way of pointing out how many actions of Israel are pretty normal in war is to show that the allies did the same thing.

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_MonteCristo_@reddit

The Allies did commit war crimes that in an ideal world would have been punished, but for obvious reasons and practical reasons that was not going to happen alongside the Nuremberg trials. That doesn't absolve them, and we can still point out they did commit crimes. Nevertheless, they did not behave as immorally or as callously to human life as the IDF is doing now.

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adasiukevich@reddit

The easiest way of pointing out how many actions of Israel are pretty normal in war is to show that the allies did the same thing.

Did the allies starve an entire population? Did they blow up the only cancer hospital in Germany after having used it as a base? Did they arrest doctors and torture them to death? Did they raid hospitals without evidence? Did they bomb children playing in refugee camps? Did they open fire on civilian vehicles, let an ambulance come to rescue a 5-year-old girl and then kill them all? I could go on and on and on. And I have a source for every one of these btw.

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zizop@reddit

It's more than that, though: the Allies did bomb civilians on purpose in order to destroy the morale of the German people. That did not work and is a war crime. We must recognize what the Allies did wrong, condemn it and ensure it never happens again.

And we can do that at the same time that we acknowledge that the Holocaust was much, much worse, and that the Axis was the instigator.

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adasiukevich@reddit

That's true. The argument of "war crimes were committed in the past so we can keep committing them" is so dumb.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

We have already had this discussion. Do you want me to copy paste my comment from last time?

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adasiukevich@reddit

Go ahead, and I'll dismantle it again.

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apistograma@reddit

So you're saying that it would be acceptable to kill every single ethnic German in order to stop Hitler.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Again the premise is wrong. It was not necessary to kill every single ethnic German to stop Hitler

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apistograma@reddit

So there's a limit.

It's not that the premise is wrong. It's that you don't want to engage with it.

Is there a limit to how many Israelis can you kill in order to stop Israeli expansion in Palestine, Lebanon and Syria?

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Just ask any Zionist at which number they'd consider Israel has killed too many Palestinians.

There is no arbitrary number at which point too many civilians have died. The premise of such a question is wrong.

The rules of war work differently. They permit attacks that may lead to civilian casualties but specifies how those casualties are supposed to be kept as low as possible while not sacrificing military objectives.

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apistograma@reddit

So what you're saying is that it's legitimate to commit as many casualties to Israelis as they have committed to their enemies.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

So what you're saying is that it's legitimate to commit as many casualties to Israelis as they have committed to their enemies.

The war would have far fewer civilian casualties if Hamas followed the rules of war as much as the IDF do.

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apistograma@reddit

Isn't just kinda interesting how you are perfectly comfortable arguing for the mass murder of Germans and Palestinians but once I apply the same logic to Israel you change your tune.

You're a very interesting German.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Isn't just kinda interesting how you are perfectly comfortable arguing for the mass murder

You are incapable of actually arguing against my points which is why you keep creating strawmen that you then argue against.

This behaviour is quite typical of pro palestinians.

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apistograma@reddit

~~Of propalestinians~~ Of goys. FTFY

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Keep letting the mask slip

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apistograma@reddit

What mask? Is it antisemitic to say that Jewish zios are racist towards gentiles?

Because that's why you want a Jewish state. To stay away from us.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Bro I'm a German atheist. You are immediately assuming that everyone who is in favour of Israel is a jew.

What mask?

Fair point I should stop assuming that you are trying to hide your hatred for Jews

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apistograma@reddit

You are though. I can discern gentile Zionists talking points and Jewish Zionist talking points.

Nice trick to use "atheist" to pretend you're not ethnically Jewish.

Tell me when I said anything bad regarding Jewish non Zionist if you're going to use the antisemitic card.

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zizop@reddit

Fundamentally, Zionism doesn't even have anything to do with religion. It's just about ethno-nationalism, and it's irrelevant which religion you actually practice.

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apistograma@reddit

Yep. That's why they said "atheist". Because they thought I was one of those who thinks zionism is religious and all Jewish Zionists are religious. It was an attempt to fool me.

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zizop@reddit

I never thought I'd agree with a Spaniard.

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apistograma@reddit

"How about agreeing with an antizionist?"

"Aye, I could do that"

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Hahaha. I am glad that idiots like you don't realise how bad they make the pro palestine cause look.

You are assuming that I'm a jew because you don't like what I am saying.

Lmao just admit you hate Jews

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apistograma@reddit

See, you have no answer. The argument is kind of a joke when nowadays Sieg Heiling is not antisemitic according to zios but condemning Israel is. If I was Jewish you'd call me self hating, kapo, whatever. I've seen that.

I could smell that you're no Christian German Zionist when you were so easily convinced to justify the murder of German civilians in WW2. The other option is that you're a wacko with non conventional arguments from a gentile Zionist. Though in reality Zionist are wackos overall.

Tell me about this: https://youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss?si=Hm3wUTjHdgMfBVNi

Is this the Israel that you defend?

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Bro you went: 'Hmm I dislike what this person is saying. I know it they must be jew'.

To quote you:

You are though. I can discern gentile Zionists talking points and Jewish Zionist talking points.

Nice trick to use "atheist" to pretend you're not ethnically Jewish.

You are a retard who thinks he can sniff out Jews. Keep digging your hole.

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apistograma@reddit

You playing dumb. It's obvious a Gentile German Zionist won't support the mass murder of Germans in WW2 like you said.

Thus, what else are you gonna be pal. Someone who supports massive German casualties, massive Palestinian casualties, no Israeli casualties. It sounds like a duck, it looks like a duck, it's a Jewish Zionist.

I understand that you support the acts in Tantura that appear in the video judging by your silence.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

And I know for a fact that you are wrong.

So you can keep on yapping about how I must be a secret jew or something.

You ain't beating the allegations bruv

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zizop@reddit

The difference is that:

1) Allied attacks on civilians were actually war crimes and we can recognize that (not targeted bombing of production but actively bombing civilians for the sake of bombing civilians) while recognizing the broader context of the Nazis being the objectively evil side.

2) Germany was the agressor, just like Israel is. And I don't even tolerate you talking about October 7th if you ignore the foundation of Israel in Palestinian land, the fact that most of the West Bank is fully controlled by Israel, that settlements in the West Bank exist and that Gaza has its port blockaded since 2007.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Germany was the agressor, just like Israel is

Oct. 7th which kicked off the recent bout of hostilities was committed by Hamas, not Israel.

And I don't even tolerate you talking about October 7th if you ignore the foundation of Israel in Palestinian land

Israelis existing is not an act of agression. This is genocidal rethoric coming from you.

West Bank is fully controlled by Israel, that settlements in the West Bank exist and that Gaza has its port blockaded since 2007.

Which were preceded by actions from Arabs that made the Israeli responses necessary. We can go all the way back to the first muslims if we want to figure out who cast the first stone

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zizop@reddit

It's also funny that you ignore the settlements, area C and the blockade of the port of Gaza.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

I did not ignore them. I stated the following

Which were preceded by actions from Arabs that made the Israeli responses necessary.

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zizop@reddit

Is it necessary to have settlements which are illegal under international law? To control the water supply in the West Bank?

Just because your country was genocidal towards the Jewish people doesn't grant any Jewish person the right to do the same. If there's anything we should learn about the Holocaust (and your country hasn't learned it, seeing its support of Israel) is that we are all equal, all human, and that we can never allow the Holocaust to be repeated. Atonement of the Holocaust is only possible with a universal condemnation of any violation of human rights.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Is it necessary to have settlements

Yes. in 1948 over 10000 Jews who were living in Judea and Samaria were driven out or expelled. They returned when Israel regained control of that land. However they were (in many cases) nice enough to build new villages and towns instead of kicking Arabs out of homes that they had stolen from jews.

This is not Israel being evil this is jus typical antisemitism in three steps.

Kick all jews out --> jews return --> cry about how the evil jews are invading

Just because your country was genocidal towards the Jewish people doesn't grant any Jewish person the right to do the same

This is Hamas propaganda. The goal is to coopt the Jewish suffering.

Jews suffered a genocide --> Claim that any and all violence from Israelis is a genocide against Palestinians

Jews were taken hostage --> Claim that any person captured by Israel is a hostage

Jews suffered in concentration camps --> Claim that Gazans are currently living in a concentration camp or that Israeli prisons are conentration camps

etc.

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zizop@reddit

The West Bank territory is recognized as occupied, and therefore any civilian settlement is completely illegal.

But anyway, this conversation has shown everything I needed to know: you are exactly like your compatriots Himmler and Goebbells, just using a Star of David instead of a swastika. The argument you just used is the same that was used for the invasion of Czechoslovakia.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

The West Bank territory is recognized as occupied

So what? Internation hatred for Israel and disproportionate outrage for Israeli actions is nothing new.

you are exactly like your compatriots Himmler and Goebbells

They would be fucking mad that I am defending Israel lol. Probably call me a Rassenschande or something similar.

If you actually want to see someone who falls in line with their thinking you should see my conversation with u/apistograma who thinks I am a secret jew or something like that lol

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zizop@reddit

Your first reply was a strawman using the Geneva Conventions. Now, international law doesn't count when it comes to settlers.

Yes, Himmler and Goebbels would hate you for defending the Star of David and not the swastika. They would hate me because I abhor everything their ideology represents. You just don't like their symbol.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Now, international law doesn't count when it comes to settlers.

The first settlements began 20 years after the Jews were driven out. You can not use international law to argue in favour of displacing people and forbidding them from ever returning.

They would hate me because I abhor everything their ideology represents.

So do I. I am glad that the Nazis were beaten.

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zizop@reddit

You don't. You don't see a problem with stealing a people of their land for your own Lebensraum.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

What land was stolen?

Jews were driven out twenty years before the settlements. When they returned they did not kick out Palestinians from the stolen homes(as they had every right to do) but instead built new homes on unused land.

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apistograma@reddit

That's what Israel did in 1948. From the mouths of the perpetrators

https://youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss?si=Hm3wUTjHdgMfBVNi

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zizop@reddit

Israel existing is not aggression. Israel being founded based on the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians is.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Are you against the existence of Pakistan?

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zizop@reddit

As much as I am against the existence of India, as there were displacements on both sides.

But I think the partition of India was a terrible move by putting religious differences as a hindrance to a common identity. And funnily enough, that intolerance grew during the 19th century fueled by the British, the same nation that "promised" a Palestinian land to the Jews.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

As much as I am against the existence of India, as there were displacements on both sides.

Does that mean you support either side in wanting to wipe the other out?

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zizop@reddit

I never said that annihilation of Israel was a solution.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

You said you are against their existence. If I am misunderstanding you please clarify

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zizop@reddit

I am against the existence of Pakistan as much as I am against India. The partition was a stupid move caused by religious intolerance, with devastating consequences for millions of people.

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Private_HughMan@reddit

Collateral damage is a tragic part of war, but there's a difference between fighting enemy armies and civilians getting caught in the crossfire and going out of your way to kill civilians. For instance, the carpet bombing of Dresden was a disgusting way crime. They targetted German civilians while avoiding military infastructure. It was disgusting when the Nazis did it to London and it was disgusting when the Allies did it to Dresden.

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jadedflames@reddit

What Hamas did on October 7 is indescribably evil.

But the murder of civilians and emergency responders because they “looked suspicious” is also indescribably evil. This isn’t war any more. It’s eradication.

Israel has declared war against Hamas, but is fighting it against all Gazans, including children too young to have formed an opinion before this.

Now those children are going to grow up with nothing but hatred in their hearts for the nation that destroyed their homes and killed their family.

This is how the cycle restarts.

Israel is a regional military superpower. Gaza is not. Israel’s crimes in this conflict are exponentially worse. Hamas militants expended all of their resources and attacked a concert. Israel is now destroying an entire region in response.

You can’t respond to an unforgivable sin by some by wiping out an entire people.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

But the murder of civilians and emergency responders because they “looked suspicious” is also indescribably evil.

War is hell.

You are fighting an enemy from a distance. You know where the shots are coming from so you fire if you see movement in that direction. You can not afford to hesitate because every second you spend out of cover gives the enemy the possibility to kill you.

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_MonteCristo_@reddit

Man I think you just haven't really looked into this. If you actually think that's what people are complaining about, you have not interrogated the source material and are just repeating what you've heard. The IDFs atrocities are, for the most part, not done in the heat of battle or under imminent danger. It is not them firing at someone peeking around a corner that they think is Hamas but turns out to be a civilian. (I mean, we could debate this, but it is not what most people are concerned about)

They are airstrikes and drone strikes that are remotely planned and initiated. Triple-tapping the World Kitchen convoy, or blowing up ambulances, these were not done from any immediate threat, seen or unseen. Killing journalists and medical workers and aid workers at a disproportionately high rate compared to the general rate of deaths. Just look more into this and you might change your mind.

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Ala117@reddit

War is hell.

And the idf are its devils, just like your 40s troopers.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

It takes two to tango

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zizop@reddit

Poland is actually responsible for having started WWII, because it takes two to tango.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Poland did not invade Germany.

Hams did invade Israel

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adasiukevich@reddit

They invaded land that they have a rightful claim to. Not saying what they did was okay, but it's not a fair comparison. Gaza only exists in the first place because of the Nakba.

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zizop@reddit

Israel is occupying Palestinian territory right now!

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Hamas views all of Israel as occupied territory

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zizop@reddit

And I'm not talking about what Hamas thinks.

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Ala117@reddit

I have no doubt that you'd like to tango with natenyahu, germany loves him after all.

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JHarbinger@reddit

I mean, you can, or you can try, but it doesn’t really help, unless they do a very thorough job. Kind of a gross thought exercise.

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apistograma@reddit

That’s surprising. Normally Israelis are known for their empathy, humility and respect for human life. Everyone knows that

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Iliyan61@reddit

what did bro say to get removed by reddit

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apistograma@reddit

Can't remember exactly, it wasn't me who reported them. Something along the lines of: "you know, I don't feel so bad so bad for the deaths of the Gazan civilians, yada yada, they allow Hamas, yada yada, and the IDF is gonna prosecute those who commit crime (yeah sure)".

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Iliyan61@reddit

ah so just genocidal rhetoric

surprised it got removed reddit generally doesn’t care

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h0ls86@reddit

They also have the most ethical/humanitarian army in the world (data: self reported).

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party_core_@reddit

You rail against being "hateful and blind" in the very same sentence where you, completely seriously, use the phrase pallywood.

Truly, an amazing thing to see.

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Level-Technician-183@reddit

2 months agi maybe, a video went viral about israeli forces using ambulance to conduct a military operation in west bank that killed a civilian or two. here is a report eith the video. btw, nablus is in area A. Part of few left meters to the PA to control.

Long time ago, a video went viral of israeli forces dressing up as medical staff to conduct an operation inside a hospital. here is the report. video is also available., also in area A.

they also block or shoot them if they like.

Israeli forces delay people’s access to care by obstructing access to health facilities, blocking traffic and targeting ambulances in the West Bank city of Jenin, amid the regime’s deadly assault on the city that has entered its fifth day, says Doctors Without Borders.

On Saturday, the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) said Israeli troops fired at one of its ambulances in Jenin, despite its entry was coordinated ahead of time.

Also area A.

hospitals are also a target, whether they had people in them or not, whether they are in control or not.

Israeli forces occupying hospitals severely interfered with the treatment of wounded and sick patients. Medical workers said Israeli forces denied doctors’ pleas to bring medicine and supplies to patients and blocked access to hospitals and ambulances, leading to the deaths of wounded and chronically ill patients, including children on dialysis. After Israeli forces evacuated some hospital buildings, they unlawfully burned or destroyed them.

protests, un armed, and clearly not hostile. yet they are targeted.

Three medical workers have been shot and killed while working during the demonstrations. At least 115 paramedics and medical workers have been injured by live ammunition or tear gas inhalation.

On 1 June, 21-year-old Razan al-Najjar, Palestinian paramedic, was shot in the chest and killed by Israeli sniper fire while providing first aid to injured protesters at the Gaza/Israel fence east of Khan Younis, in southern Gaza. Razan was wearing her white coat, clearly identifiable as a medic.

On 10 August, Israeli forces fired live ammunition towards the protesters east of Rafah, fatally injuring a volunteer paramedic Abdallah Sabri al-Qatati, 22, who was shot in the back while he was about 100m away from the fence, and was pronounced dead in hospital less than an hour after being shot.

Do we really ahve to blame hamas now? Israeli use the same play book in west bank and target clearly not in military use mdeical vehicles and buildings, also targeting clearly medical staff while doing their job.

Are you going to say that hamas had no option but to target ambulance when you see israeli forces use the ambulance and dress up like medics too?

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alt-right-del@reddit

Israel will investigate the IDF violations, but will find nothing wrong — everything and everyone is a military target.

In yr own words there is not much sympathy for Gazans. In the same way there is not much sympathy for Israelis on Reddit and in the non-western world.

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Drab_Majesty@reddit

It's little wonder Israelis have to hide their identity when they travel now, when this is how so many behave. Israel where losing your humanity is part of the immigration process.

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apistograma@reddit

It's interesting you say that because a few months ago an old foreign guy asked me to help him pay the ticket for the parking, and I told him that he needed to use a credit card. He was reluctant at first and I was a bit confused. And then I realized it was an Israeli credit card and didn't want me to see it. He was European looking and I'm pretty sure that if I had been darker skinned he wouldn't have asked me to help him. He didn't even thank me afterwards btw.

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zizop@reddit

Just regarding your edit: it is Israel who has all the power, by occupying the West Bank and Gaza, by blockading ports and by having a professional army destroying civilians. Even if we are to condemn Hamas, we cannot even remotely equate the two because of the massive imbalance.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Please cite the relevant article of the geneva conventions or the additional protocolls that states that in a conflict only the bigger 'more powerful' party to a conflict has to follow the rules

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zizop@reddit

Both parties must follow the rules, but the violation of the rules is not balanced at all. Hamas did October 7th, but Israel has killed tens of thousands.

And this is before we even argue about the right of self-determination and of violent resistance to occupation, which brings a whole new layer to the condemnation of Israel.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Both parties must follow the rules, but the violation of the rules is not balanced at all. Hamas did October 7th, but Israel has killed tens of thousands.

I will use my own country as an example. In 2023 in Germany 299 people were murdered. In the same year there were 2839 traffic accidents that lead to death.

Despite this glaring imbalance in the number of victims I claim that deliberate murder is a worse crime than accidental death in a traffic accident.

Would you agree or disagree with my claim? And if you disagree, why?

And this is before we even argue about the right of self-determination and of violent resistance to occupation

Accepting this at face value, resistance groups fighting occupiers also have to follow the rules of war

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zizop@reddit

Israel's actions were not accidental, and even if they were, we fundamentally disagree on the problem: to me, traffic fatality is a much greater problem than murder because if the impacts. Of course we cannot morally judge people for being involved in an accident, but the problem itself is of greater priority.

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EntertainmentIcy3090@reddit

Israel's actions were not accidental

They were. They were fighting Hamas and PIJ and only afterwards saw that some of the dead were emergency personell.

to me, traffic fatality is a much greater problem than murder because if the impacts.

All civilised societies that I know of disagree with you. Deliberate murder is punished worse than a carcrash. Rightfully so.

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Ala117@reddit

There are subs that isn't "hateful, blind, and completely drunk on pallywood propoganda" and has so many condemnation for hamas or the people of Gaza, and zero accountability of Israel and it's people instead. So no reddit not att all "completely drunk on pallywood propoganda".

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cobalt358@reddit

Hasbara damage control mode activated.

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apistograma@reddit

Lately they're getting more lousy tbh. Zion is a massive echo chamber so they don't realize how much it clashes with the average western mind to say: "yeah I don't care much about the mass murder of civilians from my army because some guys from there did a terrorist attack".

The best way to turn someone antizionist is a five minute talk with an Israeli with no filter. It's the ones who know what to say and what to keep for themselves which are more dangerous.

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cobalt358@reddit

Agree, they genuinely don't understand how unhinged and psychotic they sound to anyone with a modicum of empathy.

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ODHH@reddit

And that’s what they say in English.

Hebrew social media comments would have Hitler taking notes for a Mien Kampf sequel.

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PreviousCurrentThing@reddit

That could make for a good short film: take the actual social media videos IDF soldiers make of the things they say and do to Palestinians, and have it acted out as 1940s Nazi soldiers and concentration camp guards.

Wait for the condemnations and calls of antisemitism to stream in and then post the Israeli videos they're based on.

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cobalt358@reddit

The psychology behind the way they justify their barbaric cruelty and de-humanization of Palestinians eerily echoes another genocidal regime from history.

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Federal_Thanks7596@reddit

The whole Hasbara narrative is built on "Israelis are the victims". You're not supposed to feel empathy for the other people.

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RelicAlshain@reddit

Tbf the Israeli government is openly admitting that they're going to commit a genocide now, there is no way around that for these hasbara guys.

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Send_Nuk3s@reddit

Israel investigating the IDF war crimes is like Russia investigating Putin's corruption

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Consistent-Winter-67@reddit

You are such a victim. Your nation is actively genociding Palestinians and you are mad people don't want child killed.

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-OhHiMarx-@reddit

What an insight into the Israeli mind. And you all are deeply pervert

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_MonteCristo_@reddit

It is unfortunate that war causes such anguish, but

I knew we were in for a banger when it started like this

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finalattack123@reddit

Buttttttt ….

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Brilliant-Tackle5774@reddit

Your army of cowards and rapists just spent the last 18 months murdering thousands of innocent children, nobody cares what a zionist hasbara troll has to say about anything

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tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

Ah yes, the IDF self-investigations lmao

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Stubbs94@reddit

This has happened so often, you have to be completely delusional to believe that the IDF isn't targeting medical staff and infrastructure.

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Sucrose-Daddy@reddit

Fascinating, yet predictable conclusion.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Yes, we have known Hamas uses ambulances for a long time. And civil defense for Palestine is just another name for Hamas.

So what’s the issue here? Israel fired at Hamas who they are at war with.

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Private_HughMan@reddit

We know Israel likes to disguise their IDF terrorists as medical workers. Maybe they "know" Hamas does it because they do it, and if the "good" guys do a bad thing then surely the bad guys must also do it, right? /s

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol what are you talking about

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Private_HughMan@reddit

Israel dressed up the IDF as medical personnel and used ambulances to launch attacks.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol ok

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Iliyan61@reddit

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-30-2024-b1ba33c7c0c5c62f85932a20c2a0bc92

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_MonteCristo_@reddit

In this thread he has dismissed the news reports of The Guardian, Sky News, the Associated Press, and The Times of Israel all about this singular event saying it was bullshit. After a bunch more links were shown, including PBS and ynetnews, he turned on a dime saying 'hell yeah that's awesome, killing terrorists'. There is no reasoning with this guy.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Hell yea the PA working with Israel to clean out the West Bank. Gives me hope of a better future for them.

Next up - clean out Hamas and give Gazans a shot.

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Private_HughMan@reddit

"Clean out" is an... interesting phrase. But I'm glad you're having fun with all of the war crimes.

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ScientificSkepticism@reddit

Mask off Nazis are really something.

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Iliyan61@reddit

god the cope off your comment is palpable lmfao

you really couldn’t think of what to say so you just made it the fuck up lol

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cobalt358@reddit

They're a pro-genocide troll, don't waste your time trying to reason with them.

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

you know a lot about Hamas using ambulances but you’re completely unaware of Israel using ambulances lmfao

There’s more evidence of idf dressing up as doctors and nurses and driving in ambulances then there is for Hamas

Either you’re being dishonest or are just filled with propaganda to make a claim Hamas uses ambulances when there’s literally more evidence that idf use ambulances than Hamas

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/idf-admits-serious-offence-after-using-vehicle-marked-ambulance-in-raid-in-which-a-grandmother-was-killed-13288120

A Sky News investigation analysed footage of when Halima Abu Leil was shot in Nablus - and we noted how a blue vehicle marked as an “ambulance” appeared to have been used by Israeli troops in the West Bank.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

So you have one story from sky.com that says maybe Israel did something? LOL

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-undercover-forces-disguised-as-women-and-doctors-kill-three-militants-at-west-bank-hospital

Israeli undercover forces disguised as women and medics kill three Palestinians in West Bank hospital

I can keep brining more and more stories that are confirmed nothing is maybe it’s all confirmed.

I don’t know why you’re defending the act of dressing up medics and driving in ambulances to kill people

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Nice! Those are part of the joint raids with the west bank’s government to get rid of the militants.

We love to see it.

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

So, you’re allowed to dress up as doctors and drive ambulances if you’re going to kill the enemy?

You just claimed Hamas uses ambulances to attack the IDF. I’m showing you proof of Israel using ambulances and dressing up as aid workers to conduct their operations.

By that logic, every ambulance in Israel is fair game since the IDF uses ambulances for operations, and every doctor and nurse is fair game since the IDF chooses to dress up as them.

Israel’s prime minister is internationally wanted for starvation which is far worse then any terrorism Hamas has ever committed.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

You don’t seem to get it. If the ambulance is being used by an enemy, it’s a military target. If it isn’t, it isn’t.

I get that you don’t want the West Bank to be governed by its own government, but that’s something I cannot get behind.

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

Israel is bombing ambulances without any proof of it being a military target. There’s more proof of Israel using ambulances then Hamas

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/experts-hail-icj-declaration-illegality-israels-presence-occupied

The landmark ruling of 19 July 2024 declared that Israel’s occupation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is unlawful, along with the associated settlement regime, annexation and use of natural resources. The Court added that Israel’s legislation and measures violate the international prohibition on racial segregation and apartheid. The ICJ mandated Israel to end its occupation, dismantle its settlements, provide full reparations to Palestinian victims and facilitate the return of displaced people.

Unlawful occupation, apartheid and racial segregation that’s what you can get behind ain’t it you support the subjugation of a population, you love the fact that Israel commits apartheid and racial segregation.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol good jokes

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

Where’s the joke?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

You

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Sufficient_astrobird@reddit

Glad you think apartheid racial segregation and starvation is a joke.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Nope that’s bad. Just you that’s funny.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

Oh no, both sides bad? Okay, so why do you pick the side you pick?

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Private_HughMan@reddit

I chose the Palestinians because they're the oppressed. I didn't chose Hamas or Israel.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

So you chose the germans in 1946?

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Private_HughMan@reddit

I don't know nearly enough about post-war Germany to have a stance on it.

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

The point is that someone being oppressed sometimes happens for a damn good reason, like... attacking everyone who ever helped you.

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Private_HughMan@reddit

Consequences for actions are not equal to oppression

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

So what you're saying is that the occupation of Germany in 1946 was oppression and thus the German people would have been virtuous in committing terrorism against the allied soldiers?

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Iliyan61@reddit

because the allies are famous for occupying peoples homes and displacing them due to their ethnicity… weird how that’s exactly what the nazis did tho

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

East germany says hello

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s4b3r6@reddit

And we celebrate the wall coming down in Berlin.

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adasiukevich@reddit

Yes, we have known Hamas uses ambulances for a long time.

Every accusation...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/14/suddenly-there-was-a-car-of-men-the-day-israeli-soldiers-attacked-a-refugee-camp

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Got a point or just some random link?

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mnmkdc@reddit

The link is an example of Israel using an ambulance for military purposes. Not even just for military purposes, but for the murder of a civilian.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Yea it’s the guardian. I’d like some actual evidence and a reason why Israel would target civilians.

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splader@reddit

What, would you prefer The Jerusalem Post?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Reuters or AP preferable. A source that doesn’t have a long history of bias against Israel would be good.

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your_red_triangle@reddit

Any source I don't like is false because it's doesn't fit my narrative or Hasbara propaganda.... pathetic

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol why are all the dumbest trolls marked Ireland flare?

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adasiukevich@reddit

Does the Times of Israel have a long history of bias against Israel?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/palestinian-human-shield-in-gaza-for-idf-troops-shot-dead-in-error-by-officer-report/

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

No idea, but the article they are talking about is certainly a trash rag.

according to a report by online magazine, Hamakom Hachi Ham Bagehenom (The Hottest Place in Hell).

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Iliyan61@reddit

https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-israel-medics-hezbollah-hospitals-6c7f75c921c9deec0fa5c160ce639664

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-palestinians-war-ambulance-girl-family-06f15b155f1de426e00f6a655554b2a2

or is the AP hamas all of a sudden

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Thanks for confirming what I said. Israel targets militants using ambulances, not civilians.

I appreciate you admitting you are wrong!

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Iliyan61@reddit

a) targeting ambulances is illegal

b) they targeted a child

again the absolute cope coming off you is so goddamn funny

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mnmkdc@reddit

There’s a video you can easily find if you want to see it. Israel claims it was firing at militants and killed the lady by accident, but it admitted to using the ambulance.

Here’s the story from a source that’s very biased toward Israel: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sjbw7fd8jl

Don’t worry though, the culprits were “reprimanded”.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Is that one of the joint PA/IDF raids happening in the West Bank? Awesome to see a government trying to help their own people.

Meanwhile this week Hamas is jacking up taxes and prices on free aid supplies for their people and brutally suppressing protests.

After the PA finishes cleaning out the West Bank hopefully they can help Gaza next!

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mnmkdc@reddit

It says it was done without proper authorization, although it would be awful if the PA did allow this.

Please stop trying to deflect. You haven’t even acknowledged how bad this was yet. You sound a lot like a terrorist supporter when you do that.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Bad? It’s not bad to kill terrorists in a targeted raid. Helps literally everyone.

And yes the PA has been working closely with Israel to clear out the militants. They want to be a real government.

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adasiukevich@reddit

"targeted raid".

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pa-says-two-women-one-pregnant-killed-by-israeli-fire-in-west-bank-idf-probing/

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Ok so now we are totally changing topics from the hospital raid? lol

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mnmkdc@reddit

You literally just tried to change the topic to Hamas raising taxes..

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

You seem lost

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mnmkdc@reddit

Nope. This was your response to finding out that Israel used ambulances to kill Palestinian civilians:

Is that one of the joint PA/IDF raids happening in the West Bank? Awesome to see a government trying to help their own people.

Meanwhile this week Hamas is jacking up taxes and prices on free aid supplies for their people and brutally suppressing protests.

After the PA finishes cleaning out the West Bank hopefully they can help Gaza next!

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Nope, that was my response to a hospital raid. Read harder.

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mnmkdc@reddit

No it wasn't. You responded that message to me when I sent you the link to for the ambulance attack.

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1jmhzu3/israel_admits_firing_at_ambulances_in_gaza_after/mkdw3rw/

This is the same thread. Its in a chain of comments you made to me.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol you’re so confused

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mnmkdc@reddit

Is this all you do? Go into Israel Palestine threads, make jokes about how good it is that civilians are dying, and then play dumb?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Nope, don’t do either of those things

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mnmkdc@reddit

It’s bad to use an ambulance for a raid. On top of it not being legal, it tells the Palestinians that they cannot trust anything israeli including doctors and emts. If you actually care about ending the conflict, one of the first steps is proving to Palestinians that Israel is trustworthy.

It’s also bad to kill civilians. One Palestinian life is worth the same as one Israeli life. To most people this is basic humanity, but to Israel supporters this is considered an outlandish or even extremist position. You need to realize that something like this affects the Palestinians in the same way a Hamas terror attack killing one or two Israelis would affect Israel. You don’t view it as a terror attack, but you aren’t someone affected.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Dude it’s a war. The sooner the terrorists are gone the sooner Palestine can be a real country.

Support the government and people of the West Bank, not the Iranian terrorists.

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mnmkdc@reddit

Dude, attacks like this create terrorism. It’s genuinely no different from terrorism itself.

I AM supporting the people of the West Bank. You’re literally supporting killing them. You know this too. You cheer for the deaths of Palestinians. You do the exact things that you probably accuse Palestinians of doing when Israelis die.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Ah, killing terrorists creates terrorism. Cute.

Maybe the PA and IDF should write them a stern letter lol

I’m literally supporting the removal of terrorists who act to destroy the Palestinian people. Sad you hate Israel more than want peace for Palestine.

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mnmkdc@reddit

The 80 year old woman was a terrorist? You're a nazi dude. Its indistinguishable at this point. You laugh and cheer when innocent people die because they're the wrong ethnicity in your eyes.

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SaltyDeSouffle@reddit

No, we haven't know this. Show us proof.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

LOL you’re serious?

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Appropriate-Draft-91@reddit

No, he isn't seriously asking, he already knows you're a lying piece of shit who doesn't have any evidence to back up your genocide propaganda.

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Super-Base-@reddit

You can’t fire at every ambulance for that reason

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Correct only the ones with terrorists

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Super-Base-@reddit

Yea but that’s not what Israel has done.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol you think Israel is firing on random ambulances? Actually?

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Super-Base-@reddit

What fantasy world have you been living in?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Apparently the real world is the fantasy world now lol

I live in the world of facts. Lmk if you want to come!

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Super-Base-@reddit

In the real world these are ethnonationalists who believe the land Gazans are living on was promised to them by god, a people who they've expelled and have been oppressing for 75 years, a people who they dont see as their equals or even humans, and a people who it's in their interest that not exist.

So yes, Israel does absolutely target civilians, it has been for decades and decades in pursuit of its biblical god promised land.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol ok crazy. Talking about the war here. Gaza has been fine for 17 years and now is rubble.

What changed? Hmmmmmm Mmmmmm

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Super-Base-@reddit

Gaza has not been fine for 17 years, this is the 4th incursion there by Israel. Gaza exists as it does because of all that stuff, it should not exist like this period 17 years or otherwise.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Agreed Palestine should’ve elected a government that wants peace and a two state solution.

It’s too late now though - we saw this week and 2023 what happens when people protest Hamas.

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Super-Base-@reddit

We also saw in 2018 what happens when Gazans protest Israel, their actual oppressors.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Nice dodge from a government suppressing their own people lol

It seems to me you’re desperate for Palestinians to stay in this death spiral.

I’m for peace and prosperity for Israel and Palestine.

We can just agree to disagree!

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Super-Base-@reddit

Yea all the civilians and medics coward iseaeli snipers killed and maimed from behind their fence were really violent.

The excuses.

How about not killing and maiming and stealing because you think god promised you land,

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol if you have a giant wall up and people throw explosives at it you might get shot.

Go over to South Korea and throw some explosives at their DMZ and let me know how it goes lol

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Super-Base-@reddit

Again the people they killed and maimed were not throwing anything, literal medics were sniped.

Always full of excuses to justify your fantasy world they this is some civilized country defending itself and not what it actually is, an ethno nationalist state run by racist nutjobs.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol if you say so. Don’t throw bombs at armed men on walls. Helps with ur health.

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Super-Base-@reddit

“In late February 2019, a United Nations Human Rights Council’s independent commission found that of the 489 cases of Palestinian deaths or injuries analyzed, only two were possibly justified as responses to danger by Israeli security forces. The commission deemed the rest of the cases illegal, and concluded with a recommendation calling on Israel to examine whether war crimes or crimes against humanity had been committed, and if so, to bring those responsible to trial.[48]”

Keep the excuses coming.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol you’re quoting the UN now? Come on

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Super-Base-@reddit

I could quote Jesus Christ and you’d come up with an excuse.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Considering he’s made up yes, I don’t care what Jesus says about Gaza.

the UN is massively biased against Israel. This is documented directly on the UN’s website.

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splader@reddit

Like the red cross one that was given an approved route while en route to save a 5 year old child, right?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Not sure what example you mean, but firing at once ambulance doesn’t equal firing at all ambulances. Sad I have to explain this to a human lol

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B_eyondthewall@reddit

another hasbara classic (lying)

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Hope Mehr News Agency isn’t paying you in Rials lol

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B_eyondthewall@reddit

LMAO EVERY ACUSATION IS A CONFESSION AS ALWAYS

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actsqueeze@reddit

Everything’s Hamas!

The tens of the thousands of kids killed by the IDF? All Hamassss!!!!

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throw-away_867-5309@reddit

You joke, but that has literally been a justification used. I've seen people unironically say "they're future members of Hamas, so it's just them getting rid of future problems!" and then not see how fucked up that is.

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Iliyan61@reddit

we killed their family and destroyed their city so they’ll hate israel and join hamas we had to kill that 4 year old

no seriously there’s been people who said these kids have lost everything and will hate israel of course they’d join hamas…

so close to being self aware

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

It's not Israel's fault that the children of Palestine walk around in the HAMAS battle uniform.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Nope. Like Nazis, their kids are innocent. Sad that they are dying in a war they started and won’t end.

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actsqueeze@reddit

You’d have been the type to blame a slave uprising on the slaves.

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine is the longest military occupation in modern history.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol comparing Palestinians to slaves.

Slaves to their own government maybe.

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actsqueeze@reddit

Gaza is an open air prison. These are not my words, that’s how it’s widely known.

Do you genuinely believe Palestinians are free? They aren’t even allowed to visit their family in other parts of Palestine.

Would you consider yourself free if you weren’t allowed to visit family in your own country, or are you incapable of empathy?

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

You should visit a real prison lol. Gaza is a city that would be thriving if their own government wasn’t so evil and corrupt.

Palestinians need a country so they can have a passport. They can’t go to Egypt or Jordan or France either. Stop obsessing with Israel.

I do consider myself free, and that doesn’t mean I get to travel to every country in the world. Are you not aware that many countries don’t allow certain other countries across their border? You seem to think Israel invented it.

How many Palestinians are allowed to go to Egypt? Spain? Denmark? Mexico?

But yea it’s all Israel’s fault.

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cobalt358@reddit

Hasbara is out fast with this one. Someone's got receipts and it mustn't look good.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol hasbara on this sub just means facts that don’t like up with the JEWBAD hate fest.

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cobalt358@reddit

Yep, out with the anti-semitic accusations immediately. It must look really bad.
Hasbara damage control mode activated!

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

lol nice try Mehr news agency. Hope they aren’t paying you in Rials !!

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LeagueOfLegendsAcc@reddit

And this is how you lie on the internet in support of your bigoted cause.

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TallTacoTuesdayz@reddit

Not lying thanks for playing. The evidence is quite clear.

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cixzejy@reddit

I’m kinda curious. If Israel just came out and said “We are genociding Palestinians” if anything would actually change. Governments aren’t stupid they know what’s happening. What’s even the point of lying at this point.

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arbitrary_student@reddit

They have essentially said so several times, there are clips of Israel's leadership talking about exterminating all Palestinians, forcibly relocating them, putting them in camps - all the classic genocidal activities.

Here's an article talking about Netanyahu's stated intentions to completely remove Palestine as a state (2024), and another article talking about some other things discussed by Israeli leadership the year before year (2023).

In particular they've used some delightful genocidal phrases such as "voluntary migration plan" and "There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation".

Here's another random quote I found in a few seconds of googling:

“From an operational point of view, there is no way to wage a war — as the Israeli army seeks to do in Gaza — with masses between the tanks and the soldiers, Gaza Nakba 2023. That’s how it’ll end.”

Gaza Nakba is in reference to a 1948 event where Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, something like 750k people were displaced and heaps were killed.

There are many more, especially from Netanyahu. So, what you're suggesting as a hypothetical has already happened; they've stated their intentions very clearly.

What’s even the point of lying

Plausible deniability, manufacturing consent, obfuscation (alongside killing journalists). All sorts of fun reasons.

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Iliyan61@reddit

they won’t admit it because it’s a legal term that forces other countries to make a decision they’ve already made.

right now they all just play dumb and say well it’s not been proven and we’re too dumb to use common sense.

they very gleefully announce their settlements and ethnic cleansing

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Jlpanda@reddit

One day, everyone will have always been against this.

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BrownThunderMK@reddit

Israel admits ~~firing at ambulances in Gaza~~ to massacring medical staff ~~after Palestinians say rescuers missing in Rafah~~ after a destroyed ambulance and firefighting vehicle were found with dead paramedics inside

As usual the Guardian is unable to report on Israeli war crimes without laundering the title.

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lavastorm@reddit

I mean there are videos of them ! the IDF is an evil organization which has ALWAYS been a terrorist force in Palestine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvcDcHE-9Ig

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Dry-Season-522@reddit

Easy solution: Israel can just paint their missiles like ambulances and then claim that it was an "collission between emergency service vehicles responding to the disaster." Would be just as valid as the HAMAS definition of an 'ambulance'

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ElderBerrie3@reddit

It's not a one time thing. Even the paramedics who came to rescue Hind Rajab were killed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/nNlVilJScI

https://www.reddit.com/r/Global_News_Hub/s/kz1QJMrOHk

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/HawXvxrfj6

https://youtube.com/shorts/R9JynIaeLrY?si=bZcYKHv-_YtFe8_b

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/iT348MD4Pj

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empleadoEstatalBot@reddit

Israel admits firing at ambulances in Gaza after Palestinians say rescuers missing in Rafah

Israel’s military has admitted it fired on ambulances in the Gaza Strip after identifying them as “suspicious vehicles”, with Hamas condemning it as a “war crime” that killed at least one person.

The incident took place last Sunday in the Tal al-Sultan neighbourhood in the southern city of Rafah, close to the Egyptian border.

Israeli troops launched an offensive there on 20 March, two days after the army resumed aerial bombardments of Gaza after an almost two-month-long truce. Attacks on medical staff, hospitals and ambulances are potential war crimes.

Israeli troops had “opened fire toward Hamas vehicles and eliminated several Hamas terrorists”, the military claimed in a statement to Agence France-Presse.

“A few minutes afterward, additional vehicles advanced suspiciously toward the troops … The troops responded by firing toward the suspicious vehicles, eliminating a number of Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists.”

The military did not say if there was fire coming from the vehicles.

It added that “after an initial inquiry, it was determined that some of the suspicious vehicles … were ambulances and fire trucks”, and condemned what it claimed was “the repeated use” by “terrorist organisations in the Gaza Strip of ambulances for terrorist purposes”.

The day after the incident, Gaza’s civil defence agency said in a statement that it had not heard from a team of six rescuers from Tal al-Sulta who had been urgently dispatched to respond to deaths and injuries.

On Friday, it reported finding the body of the team leader and the rescue vehicles – an ambulance and a firefighting vehicle – and said a vehicle from the Palestine Red Crescent Society was also “reduced to a pile of scrap metal”.

Basem Naim, a member of Hamas’s political bureau, accused Israel of carrying out “a deliberate and brutal massacre against civil defence and Palestinian Red Crescent teams in the city of Rafah”.

“The targeted killing of rescue workers – who are protected under international humanitarian law – constitutes a flagrant violation of the Geneva conventions and a war crime,” he said.

Tom Fletcher, head of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, said that since 18 March, “Israeli airstrikes in densely populated areas have killed hundreds of children and other civilians”.

“Patients killed in their hospital beds. Ambulances shot at. First responders killed,” he said in a statement.

“If the basic principles of humanitarian law still count, the international community must act while it can to uphold them.”

Maintainer | Creator | Source Code
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot

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coverageanalysisbot@reddit

Sorry empleadoEstatalBot,

I haven't found any additional coverage for this story (yet!).

I’m a bot. Read here to learn how it works or message us with any feedback so we can improve the bot for you.

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