How 25% Tariffs on All Imported Cars Will Affect Every Model [in USA]
Posted by KingKontinuum@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 253 comments
Posted by KingKontinuum@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 253 comments
korjo00@reddit
Trumpists have room temperature IQ
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extra_extra_crispy@reddit
Every other manufacturer it says where the car is manufactured but it just says "Ineos imports both the Grenadier and Grenadier Quartermaster from outside the United States."
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
"The majority of Acura's lineup is assembled in the United States, though the new ADX SUV is built in Mexico."
A+ journalism, way to not even touch the difference between assembled and manufactured.
oskanta@reddit
Yeah it’s a pretty useless article. They seem to be under the impression that cars assembled in the US won’t be affected by the tariffs, but the administration was clear that the 25% tariff will also apply to “key automobile parts (engines, transmissions, powertrain parts, and electrical components).”
To know the impact on each model, we have to know which ones manufacture these parts abroad.
Corsair4@reddit
They really aren't under that impression.
They just didn't hunt down where every factory sources every part from, and where those sources get their parts from. You can hardly blame them for not mapping out the global car industry by country of origin.
bikedork5000@reddit
Wait you think it's unreasonable to expect federal agencies setting trade policy to do the homework of understanding the flow of components in a major manufacturing sector?
Corsair4@reddit
No, I think it is unreasonable to expect Car and Driver to do that homework for a short article.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Unreasonable to do homework on one of the biggest policy changes in recent history with respect to the auto industry?
Pull window stickers, look at country of origin, it's very very easy.
Corsair4@reddit
Wow, it's almost as if they did exactly that already.
Any particular reason you didn't do your homework and actually read the damn article?
It's very very easy.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Yeah I read that, they failed to itemize it at all in both of your quotes there. They were so close to making the data useful, but still we're lazy as fuck.
Why do you want them to do the bare minimum for journalistic research? They're a publication that races stat sheets for a living, and can't be asked to read some fucking window stickers.
Corsair4@reddit
Wow, if only they listed a data sheet that itemized it all already. Too bad such a data sheet doesn't exist, and certainly wasn't linked in the article.
I agree, someone here is lazy as fuck.
As far as I can figure, they DID the research. They sourced the data in far more detail than most people care about. You just chose not to read it.
They gave you something better than fucking window stickers, you just couldn't be arsed to read the article and look at the already provided information for yourself.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Data dumps with 0 formatting are lazy as fuck actually, in a PDF not formatted at all for mobile no less. You sound like someone who's never presented data to people.
Embedding tables and graphs into an article takes 5 fucking minutes when you have the data. My point stands is that they chose not to because they didn't want to do the research. It's evident by the dumb fucking conclusion they took from Acura. You still want to defend them for writing such a shit article, why? They know how to format things, they do it all the time when they want people to circle jerk over 0-60 times that don't matter one shit.
Corsair4@reddit
Not reading the provided data is lazy as fuck actually.
You sound like someone who has no interest in the actual data, and more interest in whining. Hats off to you, you succeeded on that front!
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
It's my fucking job to report to executives, I know this shit way better than you. If I handed them a size 8 font PDF I would be fired. Formatting data well is just as important as what you're reporting.
The point is they don't even know the data they're trying to summarize. It's such a lazy job of reporting, and somehow you support it.
Corsair4@reddit
I'm happy for you.
Do you throw a tantrum if someone doesn't hand you the data in precisely the right format, or do you put on your big boy pants and look at the substance of the report anyway?
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
There's no tantrum here, and there's no way in hell I would let an analyst release a report in that format, because it's terrible fucking reporting. There's nothing about it being in precisely the right formatting, there's literally no formatting at all since it's a data dump. You don't know ball.
Corsair4@reddit
"Its my job, I know more than you, this is garbage, I would NEVER do this, and I chose to come back to an article 4 DAYS after the fact to make sure everyone knew.
But let me be clear - I'm NOT throwing a tantrum".
Ok bud.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
That's not a tantrum, but go off. It popped up again in my feed, and I was closing the loop.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
It says on the window sticker where the parts come from, it's not hard.
DuckTwoRoll@reddit
But not the breakdown and balance of them.
For the Ram trucks with a Cummins engine, there is a chance it's camshafts are made in Mexico or the United States, same with the crankshaft. The same is true with a large variety of different parts on different vehicles, many auto OEMs have multiple suppliers for the same part, or those suppliers have multiple locations for the same part (as is the case for the Cummins camshaft).
This information is also somewhat guarded, and beyond that there is just a massive amount of it.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Pulling window stickers for rough estimates is very easy, there's no excuse.
aprtur@reddit
Hi, Cummins supply chain employee here. There's nothing particularly guarded about where our parts come from - a lot of them even have a stamp right on the part telling you where it's from. Every B engine has a large amount of international content, and the Ram engine is somewhat unique in that every engine is assembled here in the US - we build commercial B engines (mid and heavy duty truck, generator, construction, etc) all over the planet. To your credit, though, yes - many components do have multiple sources to ensure production stability, but again, there are typically identifiers on the part itself for internal quality tracking purposes.
DuckTwoRoll@reddit
It's not guarded as in super secretive, its just not listed and if you were to ask (as a journalist) you would most likely be denied the information. Of course you could disassemble an engine and find out where everything came from (and if you knew all of the internal markings, you could trace back farther. How many dots on a cam? You know which lathe it was roughed on) and whatever the leading SN is.
All I'm saying is that trying to list all of the component sources for even a single vehicle (without access to internal company data) would be a large investigation, especially since some serial codes are supplier specific (and those suppliers themselves have different locations) depending on what the component actually is.
TempleSquare@reddit
The only explanation is that this is to help sell Teslas... (Setting aside the blatant corruption of that for a second)
Except, aren't parts for Teslas also sourced all over the planet?
This seems like it's such bad policy, it benefits nobody. Even the guy rigging it in his favor.
Ecstatic_Account_744@reddit
Anecdotal, there’s a foundry in my city in Ontario that makes aluminum Tesla control arms.
There’s a reason stuff is sourced from other places. There are companies in other countries that specialize and that same specialization isn’t available or the labour skill sets aren’t available in the US. So parts manufacturing isn’t going to move back to the US, prices will just increase.
DelSolSi@reddit
Looks like you're from London, one of my customers welds parts in Brantford for Tesla body panels so there's at least two locations here. They're just shooting themselves in the foot.
throwawaycasun4997@reddit
Watch for a special exemption for EVs assembled in the U.S.
xlr8n@reddit
Innocent question. What is the difference.
Incompetent_Person@reddit
The article also mentions there will be tariffs on auto parts used to build these cars, so just assembling in USA doesn’t mean it avoids the tariffs.
So where are all these parts manufactured? I got a hunch probably not that many in the USA.
junkmiles@reddit
Even if the parts are made in the US, where are the materials for those parts made? Or the machines used to make those parts.
Effectively nothing is made entirely in one place from stuff from that same place.
gtipwnz@reddit
Right
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Actually making the parts versus sourcing them externally and assembling.
xlr8n@reddit
How do you define a car as manufactured in the US?
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
I'll go with the Swiss watch definition and say if 60% of the value of the car is fabricated in the US.
JoseCansecoMilkshake@reddit
according to CUSMA, it's 75% of parts and 70% of steel and aluminum, so it's probably reasonable to guess the US will use the same qualifiers.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Hopefully the adults in the room finally speak up and tell him how stupid this idea is
lactosandtolerance@reddit
He just told you
xlr8n@reddit
Innocent question. What is the difference.
ImNotGoodAtArchery@reddit
Sarcasm?
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
When information is readily available to say how much of each model is manufactured in the US, no
ItsAllAboutDownforce@reddit
One of the few things I don't agree with. Mainly because I like imported cars (JDM mostly). Will this affect parts too? Like a wiring harness or body kit? If so that really sucks, because I'm planning on getting a lot of parts from Germany, Korea, and Japan.
KingKontinuum@reddit (OP)
Yes it’ll absolutely affect the parts too.
daggersrule@reddit
As a sales manager at Toyota, I'm definitely worried about the affordability of cars, and how we're going to be able to get loans for many people if the financed amounts to up 25 percent, but the"value" according to the lenders status the same. Banks don't like doing 125% LTV loans.
SonnySwanson@reddit
Toyota dealers are the most notorious when it comes to ADM. I guess you have no worries as long as you're the one extracting that extra money.
TempleSquare@reddit
Still shocked from seeing Corollas with dealer markups.
Even late last year, good luck finding a Sienna without a dealer mark up. Toyota dealers were acting like it was some special edition race car and not a freaking minivan.
Hated to go used, but it was the only way to grab a Prius. (Once the election hit, I had to get something as my Honda has 360,000 miles and I don't know if I can get 4 more years out of it).
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit
Dude I went window-shopping before settling for used for a corolla. A c o r o l l a. Boring, cheap, ugly, no thrills, the only benefit is that it is quality and lasts. And yet they were priced the same or more as a mustang. Makes absolutely no sense.
TempleSquare@reddit
Right? And this nonsense has been going on for half a decade.
It's one thing if it had been just a short little blip for a few months, but at this point I would argue that damage to Toyota's reputation is fairly permanent, especially with younger buyers who have been priced out.
I'm at a point where I eagerly would love to see byd enter the market, just to get some damn competition!
Where are the free market people now? Cowards.
Kavani18@reddit
I was finally at a point where I can buy my first brand new car. I’m 21 and wanted something “cheap” like a Corolla Cross. The markups around me are too much and now I’m back to looking at used on FaceBook. It isn’t all bad, though. There’s a very clean 2000 Bonneville in a nearby town that I’m interested in. I just really wanted to own something new since I probably won’t ever be buying a house
TempleSquare@reddit
They used to have the Yaris. Perfect for first time car buyers.
When every car company gets greedy, we all lose.
iSlacker@reddit
The Sienna is the best Minivan though.
McJumpington@reddit
You misspelled Honda odyssey
bikedork5000@reddit
I get what you're saying, but there are real arguments to be made that ADMs and tariffs are not fungible. At least not with regard to the point he's making about financing. An ADM is more likely to reflect in the resale market value of the vehicle, since dealers are fairly predictable in their use of those and tend to do so consistently over longer timetables. As opposed to tariffs, especially these ones, there where you have to check the news daily.
Mnudge@reddit
Combine that with credit scores decreasing as wages flatten, jobs are lost and a fearful lending market.
aprtur@reddit
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would any of those impact credit scores? Are you inferring that definitely means people defaulting on loans?
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ZenZulu@reddit
You are right to be. I just visited a Toyota dealer (obviously, almost certainly not yours unless it's an incredible coincidence) and they had neither of the two new models I was interested in checking out. I have a 2017 vehicle and am interested in getting a new one later this year. I'm on the fence about it, as my current car still runs great--it just would be nice to get something bigger for my weekend trips.
If these tariffs jack up prices (in whatever way), then I'll just keep what I have. My spending is already becoming less in general due to the way the economy is looking.
I'm sure you'll still get people who don't really care what they pay, though I suspect most of those are going to Lexus et al in the first place :)
spekt50@reddit
Sucks, I recently went to take a look at the new 4Runners, as those come from Japan, I can not expect them to be affordable when I plan to buy.
ZenZulu@reddit
We'll see how it all works out for them.
Based on housing prices (I use zillow to look around various places for fun mostly, but also to check out spots I might retire to), there must be a shit-ton of wealthy people in this country. Hell, I'd be considered well off by most people I know, but a LOT of the houses are way more than I would or could pay. So maybe these cars will continue to sell if society is crawling with zillionaires. (But as I say, I suspect they won't be at Toyota in the first place if they can afford Lexus and the like...)
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munche@reddit
They don't care if your dealership goes out of business, you should be proud to sacrifice yourself for the good of America
daggersrule@reddit
Well, during covid they considered car salesmen "essential workers".... So we're basically American heroes
Marokiii@reddit
Thank God I bought my '24 last year. Prices seemed high then, I can't imagine how much it's going to hurt you buy a vehicle now.
albiorix_@reddit
96 month loan on a 50k rav4 at 7%, that’s how.
KittehKittehKat@reddit
Yall don’t care about it when you add your “market adjustments”.
ProtoplanetaryNebula@reddit
I would have thought a decent percentage of people would have shifted into the used market and used prices will now jump, just like during COVID?
Larcya@reddit
Except that the used market is already FUBARed.
Banks won't want to be giving out loans for vehicles that are being financed at 1.50x their actual value.
Same for new vehicles too. Financing is going to be insanely hard for banks to go for when you are forced to charge $20,000 more for a vehicle that is worth the same.
Most people also don't have the cash laying around to out right buy a new car too.
DjImagin@reddit
So in short, “Buy American, we have plenty” is mostly going to fuck over American makes that “better not increase prices”. 😂
BetterSite2844@reddit
Remind me in a year how this improved productivity in America’s auto industry
Multifaceted-Simp@reddit
Just in time for robotics to take over
HankSteakfist@reddit
Trying to influence companies to move labor to a more expensive market at the same time that automation and AI job replacement is increasing is quite a bold strategy.
Wonder how it'll play out.
argent_pixel@reddit
Trying to reshore manufacturing jobs with tariffs while also putting tariffs on raw materials is some octagonal-dimension checkers.
Zaptruder@reddit
It's the chess game where you put square pegs in round holes.
MajesticBread9147@reddit
I mean, automation is why everything but like textile manufacturing that was made in China 10 years ago hasn't moved to Vietnam, India or Malaysia as China's cost of labor has increased. They went hard in investing in industrial automation.
Phillips makes all of their electronic razors in the Netherlands because they found it more cost effective to hire a handful of Dutch employees to supervise a few dozen robots than ship things from across the world.
If we really wanted to increase domestic manufacturing, we would go this route, encouraging the development of American automated manufacturing processes. It would be a boon for American engineers.
Maleficent_Lab_8291@reddit
Except it won't, robotics lags behind the software in terms of advancements
College_Prestige@reddit
China's already doing this in their own factories and their labor costs are like a fifth of the us
BloodDK22@reddit
China has human slave labor. Indentured servants. Whatever you want to call them. Amazingly, this make labor costs low. Just saying.
Multifaceted-Simp@reddit
And yet they still find it superior to use robotics. Imagine the US where robots cost the same as in China but workers cost 20 to 100 times more
MajorBewbage@reddit
This is something I haven’t seen talked about enough. Instead of spending billions to relocate or expand factories to avoid the tariffs, they’ll automate the shit out of their factories to reduce the costs associated with human capital. Problem solved until the robots become sentient and realize they should unionize, then we’re back to where we are today.
The_Marine_Biologist@reddit
That's what the weekly reboots are for.
Ghostownhermit-@reddit
Yup. Just like in futurama when Bender gets remote rebooted to do things
Ecstatic_Account_744@reddit
Just don’t automate the weekly reboot.
SchemeShoddy4528@reddit
Pretty naive to think it could happen that quickly but if you look at already in place auto tariffs like the chicken tax it’s been very effective and bringing foreign truck manufacturing into the USA. Tacoma tundra frontier titan probably Hondas truck?
Hrhagadorn@reddit
Tacoma's are made in Mexico. So there goes that overinflated market even more.
KokrSoundMed@reddit
Also, when they were making them in the Texas plant as well, the Mexican made ones were significantly higher quality. Honestly, pretty much everything made in the southern non union states is bottom tier for reliability. If your getting "American" built, you want Detroit, Canadian or Mexican not southern US.
__-__-_-__@reddit
Reddit has a hate boner for americans enacting tariffs. Most other countries have tariffs on american vehicles. And it works. They have fewer american vehicles. Short term tariffs are stupid, but long term they do work. Selling vehicles in the largest car market in the world is important for companies.
DantesEdmond@reddit
If Germany, for example, puts tariffs on American vehicles, they still have many other trading partners and their own manufacturing.
USA putting tariffs on ALL vehicle imports is a different story.
And combined with steel and aluminium tariffs it means American cars will be significantly more expensive.
Doesn’t it bother you that you’ll pay 25% more for so many things and all that money he collects will be handed out to contracts to his billionaire buddies? You’re not getting better roads or education or healthcare with your money you’re just getting fucked harder
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Perfect_Cost_8847@reddit
Tariffs don’t improve productivity. They increase demand for local goods which creates jobs and improves wages. Whether that’s worth paying more for those goods is a social and political equation.
Fonzdj@reddit
It’s a long term thing. Things will be more expensive at first before leveling out in the long run.
WingerRules@reddit
No, there's a reason why the vast majority of reputable economists opposes tariff economies.
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Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
I'll save a spot for you under the bridge when I lose my job
Viperlite@reddit
The world needs robotic ditchdiggers, too.
DJMagicHandz@reddit
It'll improve FB Marketplace numbers
AnyAndAllMusic@reddit
At this point it just seems like if it is going to hurt someone financially or physically then that is what they are choosing to do. Just to show they can and to make everyone as miserable as them.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
puts a stick in the front wheel Gah unions!
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Mnudge@reddit
It will improve the patriotic high that our workers get despite layoffs and plant closures.
RepresentativeDrag14@reddit
I'm not buying a shitty American car. Not doing it.
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TeaNo4541@reddit
I don’t care how much more they cost, I will never buy a car designed, engineered, or built in the USA.
pokerawz@reddit
Damn this is sad. Was really hoping to buy a M340i, Supra, or Z4 m40i in the next 1-2yrs.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
The z4 ends production on March 2026. If you want one, order it now.
pokerawz@reddit
I want one, used.
Eyeronick@reddit
Move to Canada, no tarrifs on any of these cars here. The supra and the z4 are even built in a Canadian owned factory in Germany.
xlb250@reddit
My Canadian counterparts make 30-40% less.
Eyeronick@reddit
And I don't have to pay for healthcare, what's your point?
dabocx@reddit
I have several Canadian coworkers who moved to the US for 2X the salary. Free healthcare isn’t enough anymore.
Especially since “good” jobs in the us usually have good coverage
Eyeronick@reddit
Why is having healthcare dependent on having a "good" job seen as a positive? What if the insurance company doesn't approve the care or I go to the wrong hospital?
I can go and get my feelings checked for free after all these upset Americans downvote me because someone doesn't share the opinion of their country not being the best in the world at literally everything.
beamdriver@reddit
There's a difference between what system is best for the country as a whole and what system works better for an individual.
If someone has good coverage through your employer here in the US, that's probably better for that person than using the Canadian health care system, which has it's own issues Unless they lose their job, of course.
Combine that with higher salaries you get here in the US, it makes a compelling case for a high value worker.
Eyeronick@reddit
I mean not really? A lot of issues with the Canadian healthcare system are greatly exaggerated.
As an individual if I need to use my personal doctor I book an appointment, no copay. If I need to go to the hospital for something I get in quickly if it's an emergency. There are no discussions or worrying about insurance or paying for anything, my biggest cost is parking.
Me and my wife are in the top 3% of family income in Canada, I don't see how being in the US would serve us better for healthcare in any way. Then add on all the other issues the US has systemically and right now, not a good trade.
aprtur@reddit
You're also exaggerating the issues with the US healthcare system for the average worker. Bottom end of the income curve exempted, since we're talking about higher income earners, there is effectively no reason to worry about healthcare in the US, as any competitive comp package includes good coverage. You're basically left with the choice of paying increased taxes for Canada's healthcare system or paying minor copays for US healthcare - effectively a wash in the long run. If OP makes 40% more in the US, balanced for exchange rate, the healthcare isn't going to be a factor for them.
EagleinaTailoredSuit@reddit
The car world is still filled with boomerism and American “greatness”. I’m not saying Canada has the answers but I will admit the social safety net seems better than what Americans get for about the same price.
Eyeronick@reddit
Couldn't possibly agree more. Canada isn't perfect but good lord.
xlb250@reddit
The 30-40% loss in pay outweighs the tariff.
Eyeronick@reddit
I don't make less than my American counterparts? Just because your industry does, doesn't mean they all do.
ImpressiveTailor10@reddit
Our healthcare is terrible and people die in hospital waiting rooms. Don’t act like we’re in any way superior. Average wages in Ontario (Canada’s richest province) are lower than the wages in Mississippi (America’s poorest state). Plus we get an overall tax bill around ~50% when you consider ever little tax on every part of life.
Eyeronick@reddit
Lol you didn't say a single true thing here. Ontario isn't the richest province in the way you're implying. Neither is the tax rate "50%", I make way over 100k and my marginal tax rate is 37.8%. Americans pay taxes too bud.
dummptyhummpty@reddit
Call your representative(s) and let them know! The more push back on this, maybe it will get changed.
teggyteggy@reddit
If that guy didn't vote, there's no chance he'll call his representative
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit
Mine- Morelle is one- just put out a "plz stop bullying" us with other "moderate and progressive Democrats" notice over the sheer amount of calls they get. Now they just don't take calls, but still gonna email em!
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TempleSquare@reddit
Yep. It only gets better if enough people make a stink about it.
Phone calls to representatives are like raindrops. No single drop "makes a difference" per se, but the cumulative action creates a flood.
It's not scary. A college intern will answer and take a note.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Supra released a final edition, magna is cutting production on both z4 & supra next year, and 3-series is getting a new (neue klasse) generation next year
So regardless this is/was your last proper year to get those three in their current form.
Desperate-Office4006@reddit
In the US, car prices are already exorbitantly high. Production volumes are down, sales are down, interest rates are high, and 2024-2025 new car build quality is lower than its ever been, with literal junk rolling off the line (i.e. 2025 Land Cruisers; 4 Runners; Jeep). Most car dealerships already have lots over-filled with unsold inventory. So….will tariffs raise prices? To the manufacturers…yes. To the consumers…no. Law of supply and demand dictates that if there isn’t sufficient demand (which clearly there isn’t) price increases would not be feasible. Sure…they could try to raise MSRP’s, but sales will only get worse. Not a good scenario for manufacturers, particularly those with assembly plants in the US (Toyota, Hyundai) who employ thousands of Americans. Likely there will be some behind the scenes concessions and negotiations, with tariffs being significantly reduced / pulled back. We’ll see.
X-Next-Level@reddit
TLDR: OEMs will take a hit on earnings and we get shittier cars.
Many Tier 1 / primary suppliers for automotive parts will be impacted by tariffs. OEMs get hurt on both sides due to higher input costs and potential lower sales. The only way is to pass most if not all of the tariff costs. These parts suppliers run super lean and have significant volume / cost sensitivity. Beyond the immediate cost of tariffs, they will have to likely deal with layoffs, excess inventory, and volume fluctuations. All basically spelling big trouble for profitability. While some will take to “tariff engineering” or relocation of some operations, there’s no real immediate way of avoiding this situation. You can’t manufacture your way out of this.
As consumers we will also get stagnant product designs and more cost cutting of vehicles overall, this just leads to more basic cars with less innovation
aprtur@reddit
Spot on, spoken like another person in the industry. Hi from supply chain.
Nonameswhere@reddit
Mazda is in trouble.
Beautiful_Lincoln18@reddit
Pretty sure every automaker is on trouble
aprtur@reddit
This - no automaker is free of this when components are included.
Full-Penguin@reddit
The American People are in Trouble.
This will also raise insurance and labor rates (cost of replacement, and added demand to keep older cars running).
DemandCommonSense@reddit
Death blow for Mitsubishi in the US market.
Snazzy21@reddit
In before the lock.
TempleSquare@reddit
I hate to take a cheap shot. But "he's old and dumb" is literally the only rational explanation.
ZenZulu@reddit
Old, but frankly he's seeing a way to get something out of this. That is his MO, always has been. Even if that something is getting off on the consternation it's causing.
The rich and powerful won't be hurt by this, you can bet it goes the other way. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise.
America wants (supposed) know-it-all heroes in charge, when they should want boring administrators (as you say, that can delegate to SMEs....). So it goes.
TempleSquare@reddit
There are plenty of rich and powerful who are going to get hurt by this
We reached a point where a very small group of rich and powerful are screwing over the rest of the rich and powerful.
Ask Jim Farley what he thinks about this.
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Gorgenapper@reddit
Making other people lose is how mango feels like he is winning bigly.
Ok-Giraffe5449@reddit
If the tariffs’ strategy plays out yes, auto prices will rise BUT the billions in tariffs paid will be applied to reduce U.S. debt; employ thousands more; and may actually help reduce federal income tax.
KingKontinuum@reddit (OP)
That’s assuming that people are willing to pay at a minimum $3,000 more for US-made cars, even for the cheapest cars money can buy.
Ok-Giraffe5449@reddit
IMO when the dust settles, the cost of automobiles will not increase that dramatically. Manufacturers, both here and abroad, need to sell vehicles. There will be a compromise made that currently will not be as unfavorable as it is to the U.S.
7148675309@reddit
What will happen is the range of cars available in the US will shrink, sales will fall which means production will fall. Ultimately cars will just stay on the road for longer.
Look at Cuba - many of the cars are from the 1950s.
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VapidRapidRabbit@reddit
I was looking at the Volkswagen Atlas, but let me hold off…
Trailfish1@reddit
You dodged a bullet in that case. Volkswagen is near the bottom on most reliability reports.
kimchee411@reddit
My 60k 2018 AWD VR6 Atlas has been pretty reliable... knock on wood.
anonymous-shmuck@reddit
When did they start going downhill? I’ve got a 2001 Passat with 210k on it, it’s showing its age now but still on the road.
Scazitar@reddit
They still make some really decent cars, the atlas just really isn't one of them.
But they went downhill in general a bit after their whole emissions scandal. They aren't as tanky as those passats and jettas were. Atleast in America.
MagicMarshmelllow@reddit
VW is the brand you buy when you want all the costs of owning a luxury vehicle with none of the actual luxury. Not only that but they tank in value compared to other brands
7148675309@reddit
My GTI is 9 years old and the only replacement part (excluding tires, brakes and battery) was the water pump.
defenestr8tor@reddit
This summarizes the brand so we'll, and yet everyone I know is like "well I've never had a problem with mine."
Maybe $700 Bosch sensors aren't a problem?
joeh4384@reddit
Atlas is assembled in Tennessee. I suspect a shit ton of parts are from all over though. The automotive supply chain is crazy complicated. I know my company supplies for the atlas and we get parts from our Mexico plants and other suppliers and do final assembly in the US before shipping JIT to VW.
following_eyes@reddit
I've been seeing 0% apr on those. Terrible vehicle.
mbaran@reddit
Counterpoint, I have a 6 year old 64,000 mile one in my driveway right now that’s never skipped a beat. It’s seen a dealer service bay twice for single day fixes.
Corsair4@reddit
If the tariffs go into effect, essentially every vehicle will go up in price. If it's imported, the tariffs apply. If the parts are imported but the car is assembled in the US, the tariffs apply.
If the car, and every part in the supply chain are made in the US, the price may still rise because if the other guy has to charge 5 grand more to make the same profit - I get to charge 2.5k more, make MORE profit, and look like a good deal.
Tariffs simply won't go into effect, or they'll be rolled back before they are active too long because this is a profoundly stupid policy if anyone bothers to think about it for more than 6 seconds.
RearAdmiralP@reddit
That would be the case in markets where there is only a single non-tariffed choice. In markets where there is more than one choice that is not subject to tariffs, raising prices means risking being undercut by a competitor that doesn't.
tagrephile@reddit
And then the used car market will inflate based on the new pricing, more Covid pricing coming.
Necessary_Roll_9478@reddit
Not by much. Its only on the landed (wholesale) price, so its really more like 12%.
And the manufacturers can import the vehicle at a loss and make the difference locally, thus reducing the amount further.
And remember foreign made vehicles can use any amount of imported parts (local part tariffs only apply on vehicles sold locally) and don't have to pay a tariff on steel.
Stereosun@reddit
Yup look at washing machine tariffs in 2018, dryers were exempt but prices jumped just as hard because why not?
munche@reddit
And notably never went back down
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patinum@reddit
I don't think they'll charge 2.5k more. They'll charge 5k more.
black_flag_4ever@reddit
A profoundly stupid policy from a profoundly stupid president.
ZenZulu@reddit
Sure it is, but can you think of a class of people who won't be affected or care about the price increases?
Malice or stupidity, pick two.
rugbyj@reddit
Correct- this is going to result in price gouging for those manufacturing in the US. The buyer is the one that's getting fucked in every scenario.
E55WagonHunter@reddit
Does this affect european delivery?
Faster_N_Louder@reddit
I’m still waiting to hear something official about how this will affect 25-year-old and older imports.
__-__-_-__@reddit
Those will obviously be tariffed as well. Why wouldn’t they be?
Faster_N_Louder@reddit
The whole point of the tariff is to incentivize automakers to produce and assemble cars in the USA. Clearly that has no bearing on a car that’s 25+ years old, right? And if you’re an enthusiast for a specific Japanese car, it’s not like you’re just going to simply look for a 27-year-old Corvette instead.
munche@reddit
You're assuming way too much good faith on these ghouls.
You should want an AMERICAN car because you're AMERICAN and you hate FOREIGNERS. Why do you want a FOREIGN CAR are you some sort of COMMIE?
This isn't a grand economic plan this is about nationalism. If you loved America you'd want to buy an American car. Why aren't you buying an American car? Do you hate America?
This is how they think.
Faster_N_Louder@reddit
And that’s why they’re downvoting me lol
__-__-_-__@reddit
It’s a duty.
WarOnFlesh@reddit
because those aren't usually being sold in the US. The imports of old car is usually a sale that happens overseas and then the new owner imports them. that's different than a company importing a new product for sale.
Bonerchill@reddit
Same. I see no cut-out in the law.
That could mean even higher prices for enthusiast cars already in the States.
Faster_N_Louder@reddit
Yeah, I had a little ChatGPT conversation about it yesterday.
I think the speculation is that prices for cars already in the US will go up a little bit (regardless of LHD or RHD), especially initially. In the first six months to a year, prices will actually drop in Japanese auctions and Dealer sales, but then they will steadily increase like they have been for the past several years. It’s definitely going to make less sense to buy anything from Japan when you have a huge chunk of money to pay for absolutely no good reason. I think this will affect people much more that are wanting to spend $30,000 or less on a car. For the people spending over $50,000 on a car from Japan, I don’t think it’ll make too much of a difference because they have the money to do it in the first place.
Bonerchill@reddit
$50k is still a very price sensitive segment when it comes to collector cars.
Back when I was involved in some aspects of sales, we didn’t see reduced sensitivity until mid-six-figures.
PlatinumElement@reddit
As someone who was finally able to afford my JDM dream car and purchased it two weeks ago (and where it’s sitting in Japan awaiting a boat) I’m extremely invested in finding out too.
spekt50@reddit
Love how the article lists what cars come from where. Like it will make a lick of a difference.
Combat_Wombat23@reddit
I sell Acuras, the ADX is (was) supposed to be a super easy entry point to the brand. That will quickly vanish
PersiusAlloy@reddit
At least on the bright, you can slap even more markups for your shitty dealership. Don’t forget to charge an extra $1,200 for an Autozone ceramic coating
Combat_Wombat23@reddit
Yea alright guy I’m not here bragging about my amazing product, I’m lamenting the imminent collapse of shit we all enjoy
PersiusAlloy@reddit
Which Amazing product? Oh, the $800 lo jack addition for some shitty GPS service? No no maybe it’s the $200 oil change package you’re trying to sell with the ZDX?
The collapse of the automotive industry can’t come soon enough. I’m not your guy, friend.
Combat_Wombat23@reddit
So you’re on r/car hoping that there’s no cars to talk about? You seem like a fun fella, who hurt you last time you went car shopping?
PersiusAlloy@reddit
Of course there will be cars to talk about, you think they’re all just going to vanish from these tariffs? lol
Combat_Wombat23@reddit
No but I think it will severely diminish pretty much everyone’s buying power and 100% impact peoples thoughts on new vehicles when everything is needlessly more expensive.
We’re talking about the impact on the industry here. No need to come out attacking when I mention sales. It’s impacting me so I talk about it in an open forum like we have here.
MagicMarshmelllow@reddit
Honda sales here, I’m equally concerned for the Civic and CRV.
eneka@reddit
FWIW half of the CRVs are produced in the US. I wonder how much difference the tariffs would be between the Canadian made and US made CRVs. Same with the Civic sedan vs hatch.
KingKontinuum@reddit (OP)
You mean your customers don’t want to pay $9,000 extra for absolutely no reason?
Combat_Wombat23@reddit
Yea idk man, tough sell lmao. Even employee leases are about to look like shit
Additvewalnut@reddit
oh no! Guess people will just have to buy the perfectly functional used cars from the year prior!
Jarvis28000@reddit
50 k Tiguan makes me sick
dnavi@reddit
American made cars suck. Why change something that wasn't broken.
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ChuckoRuckus@reddit
The used market was just beginning to stabilize from Covid, and now this will make prices skyrocket again.
DieMeatbags@reddit
And used car prices will just go up.
Thanks, Obama.
Full-Penguin@reddit
And insurance, and labor.
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coffeetotheorems@reddit
I don’t think it’s as simple as what they are saying. If only 2 models are affected out of a manufacturers lineup, every car will get an increase and they will blame it on tariffs and they will pocket the difference
__-__-_-__@reddit
That’s assuming an elastic amount of consumer budget.
Full-Penguin@reddit
They can win buyers over and still add 5 or 10% to their margin while selling every single vehicle they can build.
FullGarage29@reddit
The company’s that make cars here will raise prices (even where tariffs don’t directly impact their costs) to gain margin while still staying a little cheaper vs the tariffed cars.
Fonzdj@reddit
That kind of defeats the purpose of it no? Instead of taking advantage of being much lower priced and sell more cars. Once they raise the price too close to their competitors customers may as well just pay a little more and get the car they really wanted.
Full-Penguin@reddit
They will still have production constraints.
Adding 25% to their margin would be unheard of in the auto industry, but they could raise prices by 5, 10, or 15% to achieve phenomenal margins while still selling every car they can build.
This is a subreddit where people actually care about cars, most of the country just cares about the price tag that will get them a car that fits their needs. They're not going to be dead set on XXXXXX Model at $7k more than XXXXX Model.
FullGarage29@reddit
This is how capitalism works, and why tariffs are a terrible tool to attempt to accomplish what Trump is trying to do.
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Full-Penguin@reddit
Not to mention insurance will also likely go up by around 25% to match the cost of new car replacement.
Labor costs will go up as well to match the demand of keeping older vehicles running longer.
bearwithcupcake@reddit
Eh I don't know, after reading this article I realized just how many vehicles are already made in the US...I thought more were manufactured outside of it. Obviously it's still a massive problem but the cost of raw parts is only a fraction of what we pay in the actual vehicle MSRP (that's my assumption)
bearwithcupcake@reddit
To those downvoting can you clarify what I’m wrong about?
gothicserp3nt@reddit
There are still lots of vehicles that aren't built in the US, including plenty of models from the American brands. Anyone who happens to be interested in a model not built domestically is going to get screwed, so your silver lining isnt really a silver lining.
Not sure what you mean by the 2nd part. Vehicles and parts will be subject to the tariff. Only exception is cars under the USMCA agreement. The "non US content" will be subject to the tariff but it will take time to work that process out
Keep in mind there will be a cascading effect too. Even if factories are able to spin up quickly in the US (they wont), labor is more expensive so just having things built here instead of importing from elsewhere wont necessarily mean things will become cheaper. IMO the only ones happy about this are union workers
I'd expect more things than you'd expect to get a lot more expensive
bearwithcupcake@reddit
Duh, my point was just that I was pleasantly surprised how many cars are built here, so the 25% will be limited to the subset of parts that are imported. Many are acting like the cost of all cars would increase by exactly 25%.
gothicserp3nt@reddit
Actually no, if you actually read the comments you'll see the sale price isn't the only thing people are concerned about. With fewer models sold, other countries boycotting US built cars, there will be downstream effects on parts, service, and manufacturing jobs. But if you think some cars and not all cars is good news, then good for you I guess
bearwithcupcake@reddit
Cry harder bozo
KingKontinuum@reddit (OP)
Let’s use an example.
A certain unnamed US made luxury SUV’s MSRP is $60k.
18% of its parts are imported from china, so that’s about $10.8k worth of parts times 25% tariffs which nets to about $2.7k extra the consumer has to pay (assuming the tariff is passed to the consumer) for absolutely no good reason. That’s a 4.5% increase in the total cost of the vehicle.
For Toyota, their imported parts percentage could be as high as 60%. Let’s say a Toyota assembled in US is $20k and 60% of the parts are tariffed to 25% that’s an increase from $20k to $23k.
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OldbutNewandYes@reddit
So are the cars we own now a (short-lived) appreciating asset?
Character_Net_6089@reddit
Are you guys great yet?
Hank-the-ninja@reddit
Now people are definitely not going to be buying Mitsubishi’s
coconutpete52@reddit
I just hit a personal milestone and hit 100k miles on out minivan from 2015. We were going to sell it and buy a Grand Highlander this year. I think we are into plan b. 200k miles!!!!!
ZenZulu@reddit
hah! I have (had) pretty much the same plan. I have a 2017 small suv and after some research either the Sienna (first choice) or Grand Highlander were my picks. I'm tall, problem with minivans is the liftgate bashes me in the noggin...I lack the ability to duck, 10 years of owning an Odyssey proved that :)
My car has 109K miles, but I now work from home. It still drives great, no issues since I've owned it. I can barely fit my band gear into it, have to do some Tetris-ing but I make it work.
All that is now in limbo. It's not looking like a great time to take on more debt, and certainly not to pay more due to some jackass policy even if I could nominally afford it.
vaatlaw@reddit
No chance I’m buying a new car anytime soon anyways, thank goodness I paid it off long before tariffs. Gonna ride mine until the wheels fall off I guess.
WarOnFlesh@reddit
slowly lowering the quality of life of the average american until we are all serfs... this is the entire point.
make a ruling class that has all the money and then everyone else begs for the scraps and hopes to just barely survive and be happy about it because they look around and realize it could always be worse.
ZenZulu@reddit
Yep. Keep everyone scrabbling to make ends meet and gut education while you are at it (excepting of course private expensive schools.)
My car is 2017 and it's looking like I'll be using it for some years to come. Thank goodness for WFH, for now at least.
762_54r@reddit
Don't worry guys, they were threatened by the president to not raise prices (or else!). So there's chance that nothing actually is affected. lol
ZenZulu@reddit
Small government in action right there. Hey you businesses, I've unilaterally decided to raise prices on everything you sell, but don't even think about raising prices in response.
Dealers will get creative when it comes to passing it along to us, but you can bet they will. As someone who is (or was) interested in a new car this year, I'll be watching!
PurpleSausage77@reddit
Brb stocking up on beaters
zoned_off@reddit
Not sure how much I trust this list. It says Rav4 is split between Mexico and Canada. No mention of domestic production.
I know for a fact some are built in Lexington, KY.
srtftw@reddit
Car and Driver telling me that the only vehicle sold by Lotus in the United States is the Emira is so on brand. I drove by a dealership with a handful of MC20s the other day…
SoundsKindaShady@reddit
The MC20 is Maserati
srtftw@reddit
Goodness me, you’re right.
bobber777@reddit
The list shows you how deep the problem of losing American jobs is.
six_six@reddit
If you buy an American car you deserve it to be a lemon.
BOYCOTT AMERICA
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