“CoNsTiTuTiOnAL cOnSeRvAtiVeS”

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Shrek2onVHS69420@reddit

The new tariffs are a fucking joke lmao.

“Wait, conservatives like taxes now?” Always have…

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chmendez@reddit

One of the thing I like about most libertarians is that they at least try to be minimally consistent.

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MarshalThornton@reddit

Lots of people willing to call themselves libertarian while following few if any of its tenets though.

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I mean I lean left on a few things and right on others but mostly I'm dead center. Being libertarian to me means don't push your shit on other people and just let people be themselves. Why darken my days being negative towards someone just because our views are not the same. Just leave people alone plain and simple.

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Chrisc46@reddit

Being libertarian to me means don't push your shit on other people and just let people be themselves.

I'm not so sure that is exactly correct. I agree that government should not be used to push things on people. But, there's not really a libertarian issue with promoting one's social preferences or ridiculing people who do things against those preferences.

Sure, spreading negativity isn't ideal, but there are certain things that may justify such negativity to some people.

Granted, maybe that's just me being pedantic, but there's a difference between unjust force and non-violent social pressure.

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ConcertCareful6169@reddit

That's one way to look at it but as for me I'll talk about my views but I'm not going to debate with someone just to push my ideologies and try to convince them to change their ways so to speak That's basically what religion and government does and mankind is worse for it

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DigDog19@reddit

That's stupid. Then nothing would ever change.

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gfunk5299@reddit

Freedom and liberty don’t need to change. Only authoritarians believe we need “change”, “for the better”. Because what can be better Han being free???

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packet_llama@reddit

Being more free? More people being free? Being both free and healthy?

Are you seriously saying you don't think anything could improve and wanting change of any kind is authoritarian?

What an ignorant take.

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gfunk5299@reddit

So being free isn’t enough for you??? What you want to be free and you want others to take care of? Do you want to not have to work as well?

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Affectionate-Set4208@reddit

We are not there yet

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Silent_Saturn7@reddit

I think he's saying that "freedom" is relative. Freedoms have restrictions and also depends who gets those freedoms.

So you can always strive for more freedom in many various aspects of government and life.

Don't think it has anything to do with universal basic income or "being taken care of"

This topic of u.s. residents freedoms is a great example of granting kore "freedom.

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No_Okra1188@reddit

Ridiculing people.

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Chrisc46@reddit

Ridicule, mockery, jeering, scoffing, or whatever else you'd like to call it is an important social mechanism for pressuring individuals into better behavior or away from bad behavior.

Like anything else, it can be excessive, be used for ill-will, or even be a bridge towards actual violations of rights.

But the denial of the social benefits of ridicule is a sign that one isn't thinking beyond their emotional biases, either due to incapacity or intention.

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paulydavis@reddit

Like open borders

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RaffleRaffle15@reddit

Doesn't work with welfare

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MarshalThornton@reddit

A lot of people think of libertarianism exclusively in terms of taxes and the second amendment. It’s such a limited view of what liberty means.

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satcat4371@reddit

Libertarianism is less about being a contrarian and more about being a historical universalist.

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awarepaul@reddit

Just because you call yourself something, doesn’t mean you are that thing.

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Sensible_Max@reddit

I'm more liberal leaning, but that's my take as well. I may not always agree with the libertarian view point, but i can at least understand it because it doesnt change constantly, unlike two other parties i wont name lol

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Rvtrance@reddit

My cousin wants to argue with me about tariffs every time he sees me. I keep telling him I don’t like them. But he won’t give up. I told him it’s protectionism and anti free market. (It made my dinner last night that came from Canada much more expensive). But he likes it I think because Trump likes them. I never heard him talk about them until now. And he won’t shut up about them.

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Few-Past6073@reddit

Yup, I was just thinking exactly this ahahaha

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

You do realize the people who are being deported aren’t being deported for their speech against Israel? But for their illegal actions in protest that happened at Anti Israel/“Pro-Palestine”/Pro Hamas rallies (intimidation, threats, vandalism, occupation of a building, harassment, physical assault,etc), taking part/affiliated themselves in organizations that pro Hamas aka terrorist organizations and using pro- terrorist slogans and speech (which has always been against the law for green card and visa holders since the Anti-terrorist act of 2001).

Freedom of Speech is not at all the same for Green Card and Visa holders.

Freedom of Speech for citizens doesn’t mean you can do and say whatever you want especially without consequences.

If you are going to meme at least do it right and not be intellectually dishonest.

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blazkowaBird@reddit

So with the rapid increase in AI chosen deportations, do you want to admit you were wrong about this?

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

AI chosen deportations has nothing to do with free speech. The concern of AI chosen deportations is its facial recognition technology not being very good thus some innocent people (who look similar) get picked up. But again, has nothing to do with free speech or what I posted.

Biden used the AI program during his presidency and is now used under Trump. Immigration policies haven’t changed, they are just being enforced under Trump.

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Imaginary-Media-2570@reddit

The second sign should read "Deport any alien who supports violence or terrorism".

This ISN'T about free-speech, it's about violence and assault.

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Jeanthebean0@reddit

thank you for pointing out the discrepancy of ignorance

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blazkowaBird@reddit

In hindsight are you willing to admit you are wrong?

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ox_raider@reddit

MAGA isn't pro freedom. It's the Authoritarian Right.

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Jeanthebean0@reddit

well, that may be a bit of a strawman. maybe magats who deliberately dislike freedom are the problem, not all of them. some use trump's presidency as the stepping drone away from even more fascism caused by the opposing side even with the knowledge they are both wrong because it is progress, even if minor.

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the-hambone@reddit

How come no one in this thread is distinguishing between Palestine and Hamas which has been formally recognized as a terrorist organization since 1997

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RaffleRaffle15@reddit

Hamas was elected by the Gaza strip no? But i agree the government and the people are different, a maga supporter isn't the same as trump himself

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chmendez@reddit

Yeap. It is vary nationalistic. And Nationalism is another form of collectivism. One that is probably under-estimated by libertarians.

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RaffleRaffle15@reddit

I'd say you CAN be nationalistic while still focusing on indivualism, it's only a problem when u start putting the collective over urself. But 2 things can be true at once

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MxM111@reddit

But they say they are pro freedom and Elon Musk is our savor.

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gfunk5299@reddit

You might be using that term too generally. Trump and this administration are too authoritarian. His core base are too keen to go along with it.

Progressives democrats want an authoritarian left.

Then you have moderate left and moderate right that are not pro authoritarian but also not really against it as long as their side is in power.

Which leaves you with left/right libertarians. People always ask what are libertarians. I think the easiest answer is libertarians are anti-authoritarians. Which funny enough was a lot of the anti-authority, anti-government “liberals” from the 60’s and 70’s.

I also think as the right moves more authoritarian, more right leaning libertarians are joining the “liberals” libertarians. If that all makes sense.

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Beeradleeguy@reddit

Sadly for a lot of them, this is definitely the case.

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Parking_War_4100@reddit

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. “

Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

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Jeanthebean0@reddit

they're not even conservatives because they don't wanna conserve the laws and freedoms and minimize the government's control. right-wing libertarian myself I must say don't deport them... if they wanna leave, they can pay their way out, or if you're so bothered, do it for them. That's their freedom to say so but their freedom to leave if that's their proclamation. It's also their freedom to stay even if they are hypocritical.

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stupajidit@reddit

i dont think maga voters give a rats ass about israel. maga branded politicians are bought off by aipac. the voters hate israel and palestine equally

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Silent_Saturn7@reddit

I think they care about israel as much as their media tells them to. If it becomes a big wedge issue that trump is using to justify draconian acts, then they suddenly care about it.

Not many people think for themselves any more. Just regurgitation. In a sane world, people would look at the facts of the situation. The sheer numbers of people being abused, crippled and killed and come up with a rational opinion.

Israel has bi partisan support as is.

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shinbreaker@reddit

They do. Look up Evangelical Zionism. That's what's really behind the right being obsessed with Israel. AIPAC just adds some money to it.

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VerneUnderWater@reddit

You average MAGA is about an 80 IQ these days, much like the average Harris voter. They don't really think about this stuff much. Vote ____ no matter who. Propagandized slaves.

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MarshalThornton@reddit

By definition, the average voter cannot be two standard deviations below average.

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VerneUnderWater@reddit

I didn't say the average voter. I said the average MAGA or Harris voter lol. Outside of that, it was a joke. The new average is 80 compared to the last one. Get it? Yeah. K.

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Additional-Fun5499@reddit

Facts

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Silent_Saturn7@reddit

I really don't understand why Republicans, who have been free speech advocates in the past, don't see the problem here.

Deporting u.s. residents based on their political opinions is blatantly draconian anti free speech.

I mean, if Trump is allowed to do this, wouldn't that allow the next democrat potus to start deporting pro-israel u.s. residents?

Or.. maybe how about pro non-u.s. allies like saying something favorably about Russia. Justifying Russia's actions in Ukraine or something.

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MarsRust@reddit

Is the MAGA in the room with us?

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blazkowaBird@reddit

I love how after the election you just put the blindfolds on and say you can’t see the destruction of liberty. It starts with the easy targets. You’ll come to the realization late as usual

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MarsRust@reddit

Could you give an example?

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FreitasAlan@reddit

Well. Not citizens. Sorry.

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blazkowaBird@reddit

So you don’t support freedom and the constitution, cool

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FreitasAlan@reddit

Freedom. Yes. It’s corollary of private property. Yes. Constitutions. Well… it depends.

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Stew21221@reddit

Fuck, reddit is terrible. Even r/libertarian is becoming a left wing echo chamber. Cmon guys

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blazkowaBird@reddit

You really said “believing in free speech and the constitution is a left wing echo chamber”

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IJustTellTheTruthBro@reddit

Outside of twitter I have NEVER seen someone on the right say this before

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blazkowaBird@reddit

My boss, the great libertarian, praises the deportation of people who liked social media posts criticizing Israel. So yeah they are all around

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oooo-f@reddit

This is misinformation and disingenuous. Nobody is getting deported for their speech. The first amendment is literally there to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

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blazkowaBird@reddit

Do you still believe your nonsense?

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HotTamaleOllie@reddit

A non-citizen here on a school visa who lied about ties/support to terrorist organizations? That’s who we’re gonna defend today?

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ly5ergic@reddit

A green card is like a citizen they have all the same rights. We even call them legal permanent residents or lawful permanent residents. A friend of mine, a business owner, had his for 40 years before deciding to become a citizen. Voting is the only difference, really, and the ability to be deported for certain crimes. Protesting or expressing your opinion isn't a crime in the US, fortunately.

If you mean Kahlil, he has a green card, which is different from a visa. He is also married to an American citizen who is pregnant with his child.

It isn't just him. Multiple legal permanent residents have been detained for protesting the war.

Is every Palestinian a terrorist? Does saying you don't want a war or people killed make you a terrorist supporter?

You know, in the US, we can have a KKK march and say we hate blacks. Extreme religious groups go out and say all gays should die. I can even go out and say I believe ISIS is great. We can go have a Nazi march if we want.

Should we lock up all those people? Maybe we should have detained the Iraq war and Vietnam war protesters, too? Clearly supporters of terrorism and communism.

Freedom of speech and expression is protected here and is a cornerstone of what makes America America.

We can express whatever beliefs we have and express support or disappointment for any leader or group.

Terrorist actions are illegal. I can say I love ISIS, but I can't do an attack or help.

What if the government decided Israel was the problem and anyone voicing support for Israel should be detained and deported?

The government controlling what you can or can't say isn't a good thing. If you believe it is I really hope you don't call yourself a libertarian. There are plenty of countries where the government controls speech, maybe you would feel safer in those places, protected from the scary words.

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

Green card holders still don’t have the same rights as citizens. Even immigration lawyers acknowledge that they have lesser rights. If they had “same rights” as you say they would be allowed to vote. I have a husband who became a citizen and have friends who work as immigration lawyers- it’s way more than the right to vote that they receive when they become citizens: right to hold office, apply for certain federal/state jobs, travel internationally with a U.S. passport (a U.S. passport is stronger than other passports), be able to petition to bring family members permanently over, etc.

Green card holders know they are subject to deportation if they commit crimes or violate their status.

Khalil lied about his employment history on his green card application. That alone can deport him. He worked at the Syria office of the British Embassy in Beirut and UNRWA (UNRWA members have been found working with Hamas). If you are a member of the communist party or committed a crime in your home country, you need to be honest on the application so that it can be investigated. This was brought up as ONE of the reasons for his deportation.

Khalil was the leader of the CUAD that endorsed Hamas- that is in violation of his green card status via the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001.

Khalil was a negotiator for pro-Palestinian student protesters in talks with Columbia’s administration, who illegally occupied and vandalized a building, and assaulted staff. He was affiliated with protestors who engaged in (which he may have engaged himself) in the harassment, intimidation, threats and preventing of Jewish students from going to class.

Occupation, preventing peoples movement, threatening, intimidation, assault and harassment are illegal forms of protest and not protected free speech. They can get you arrested and (even if you were arrested for these actions) can get you deported. They aren’t being arrested for their beliefs nor for criticizing Israel or the war.

FYI people who protested against the Iraq war weren’t pro Al-Queda/pro ISIS and the People Protesting Vietnam weren’t pro-DRV. People were arrested for assault during the Vietnam protests. Not all Pro-Palestinian protesters support Terrorism and are antisemitic but Most activist led groups call Hamas Freedom Fighters (despite Palestinians in Gaza protesting against Hamas and getting shot by Hamas) and engaged in antisemitic beliefs/activities (assault and harassment of Jews and Israelis and vandalism/threats to synagogues/Jewish and Israeli neighborhoods and Businesses).

You as a CITIZEN can say “I love ISIS” but that green card holder can’t do the same as they have lesser rights.

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HW-BTW@reddit

lol—downvoted for truth. Gotta love Reddit.

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blazkowaBird@reddit

Amazing how libertarians will legalese their way into support fascist’s destruction of the constitution. Wrapped in an American flag holding a cross was true

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Parabellum12@reddit

You are literally the meme lol. Khalil has no ties to Hamas, you conjured that up out of nothing.

Mahmoud Khalil may be a non-citizen but he is a legal permanent resident and was detained and threatened deportation without any charges being brought against him. No warrants, no subpoena, no legal documents whatsoever.

Say what you want about him but that is a violation of several rights and a terrible precedent to set; you can now be detained and deported if you say something or government doesn’t like, even without any criminal charges being brought against you.

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Black_Midnite@reddit

Green card doesn't mean permanent resident. He had his green card. He was married to a U.S. citizen. Even a simple Google search will tell you that illegal protests are ground for deportation and revoking someone's green card.

I'm all for arguing that he shouldn't be deported, but stop spewing bullcrap about permanent resident.

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MMHernandes@reddit

‘illegal protests’

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mowaby@reddit

This seems like an illegal protest to me.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/columbia-university-students-occupied-hamilton-hall-expelled-suspended/story?id=119774163

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RussianBotProbably@reddit

Yes. There are limitations to protests. I.e. burning teslas.

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Parabellum12@reddit

Boy you are so misinformed it’s almost sad. The official name of a green card is literally “permanent resident card” lol.

Also, theres no such thing as an “illegal protest”. Protesting is not grounds for deportation, and even if the protest was “illegal” he was not charged with a crime. Defend it all you want, it’s massive authoritarian overreach and a clear violation of several rights. And it’s certainly not libertarian.

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Black_Midnite@reddit

There is such thing as an illegal protests. You really are misinformed too, then. XD.

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Parabellum12@reddit

Since when is protesting illegal in the US? Show me the legal code.

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Black_Midnite@reddit

Now you're trying word play.

I'll leave the forefather's wording here for you.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Peaceably. It does not protect violent protests or illegal acts within a protest, like blocking a street. Nor does it protect protest speakers who incite others to engage in immediate acts of violence, who threaten others or who seek to provoke others into a violent response. In these cases, it is up to the courts to decide.

I'm all for calling out homeland security for saying, "Hey, he sided with Hamas." That is disgustingly vile.

But, there are still rules to follow.

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Parabellum12@reddit

No you’re the one trying wordplay lol. When did Mahmoud Khalil do anything that wasn’t peaceable?

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

Khalil, a negotiator for pro-Palestinian student protesters in talks with Columbia’s administration, where they illegally occupied a building, vandalized, and assaulted staff.

He was affiliated with protestors that harassed, intimidated, threatened and prevented Jewish students from getting into class.

Illegal protest: occupying a building, assault, intimidation, threats, and preventing others from entering/leaving an area, etc.

None of those things are peaceful and are not protected under Free Speech.

Khalil lied on his Green Card Application which is enough reason to kick him out, and was leader of CUAD that endorsed Hamas- that along would violate the terms of his Green Card.

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Parabellum12@reddit

What did HE do?

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Local_Committee_7604@reddit

Per USCIS, a green card is officially known as a Permanent Resident Card and holding the same allows you to live and work in the US permanently. Green card holders are referred to as “LPRs”, which is an acronym for lawful permanent resident, so green card does in fact mean permanent resident. Only a conviction of a crime of moral turpitude is grounds for revocation (there are other grounds but they are not relevant to this conversation).

All this to say that if anyone is “spewing bullcrap” about green cards here, it would be you, sir. Get informed before forming opinions lest you make yourself look like a certified dumbass.

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Black_Midnite@reddit

Sure, I'll admit I'm in the wrong here about Permanent residency. But, he is still a green card holder which means he can still get deported through due process.

Only a conviction of a crime of moral turpitude is grounds for revocation (there are other grounds but they are not relevant to this conversation).

The point still stands. He can get in trouble and get deported if found to be guilty.

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Local_Committee_7604@reddit

You’re correct, he can still get deported for sure, as violating the green card is grounds for revocation as well, and that is much more vague. I think it’s upsetting to a lot of people because it sets a dangerous precedent that LPRs can be deported for exercising his their right to free speech and assembly. Any and every protest against this administration can and will be viewed as “illegal” in an effort to deport anyone who opposes them. This is unacceptable to me and it should be to you too if you oppose an authoritarian regime.

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Black_Midnite@reddit

I see where you're coming from. I do agree that Homeland security saying, "we picked him up because he sided with Hamas", is disgusting overreach. That is why I want to see the court ruling and I want to see the trial. I agree that the government can sound like FBI villains from a Michael Bay movie because they are doing this crap.

But, I also see what others are saying too. This is my home. I was born here, and genuinely do not care if people vote blue or red or purple or whatever. But, you come into someone's home and you agree to their rules. The rules state that you need to respect the laws of the land. If you do not respect those laws, then you need to go home.

Until then, we'll just have to wait to see how the court decides.

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Local_Committee_7604@reddit

Green card holders are literally referred to as “lawful permanent residents” per DHS so yes, green card does in fact mean permanent residents.

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

Khalil was the leader of the CUAD, a group that endorses Hamas aka a terrorist organization. That alone violates his green card/visa status.

He doesn’t need to be arrested/commit a crime to be deported. Immigration law is a completely different legal system that you clearly don’t understand. They have a completely different system of due process when deporting someone.

He also lied on his Green Card application- that alone can get you booted. Khalil failed to state on his green card application he had previously worked for the Syria office of the British Embassy in Beirut and was a member of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, or UNRWA (UNRWA members have been caught with working for Hamas).

Even if you were a member of the communist party in Russia- you have to state it on your application so they may investigate and conduct more interviews. He lied. Other countries would be deporting him for the same thing. Ffs!

Khalil was negotiator for pro-Palestinian student protesters with Columbia’s administration over last spring’s encampment- he was part of the illegal protest of the occupation of a building (he negotiated on that) where the students assaulted staff members and vandalized the building. His group of protestors engaged in intimidation, threats, and harassment of Jewish students and even prevented Jewish students from going to class (besides being fucking antisemitic and completely dickish- that’s illegal and not free speech) ffs! He would deserve to be deported for that too.

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sadson215@reddit

It's really not about defending him. To be honest I don't care about him. Don't know about the case.

Here's what I do care about. Restricting government power. Deporting a legal resident without due process should be beyond the ability of the United States executive branch.

It's not about when the government is deporting bad people we all agree shouldn't be in the country. It's about when the government deports good people who are obeying the laws and taking part in the fundamental aspects of American culture, but might be out of line with the current political trends.

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Beeradleeguy@reddit

I’m conservative and run in conservative circles. I’ve never heard anyone say or infer that we should deport anyone who doesn’t support Israel. This just looks like gaslighting to me.

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blazkowaBird@reddit

My conservative “libertarian” boss was raging in passionate anger that deporting people without due process was great, because they are ALL rapists

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somerandomshmo@reddit

Democrat brigadiers again

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soiledmeNickers@reddit

You clearly aren’t familiar with OP 😂

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Beeradleeguy@reddit

What do you mean?

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mhaghaed@reddit

Are we living in different worlds?! I voted for Trump and am an avid Trump supporter, yet, I don’t deny the obvious fact that Republicans get an orgasm from dehumanizing Israel critics.

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Beeradleeguy@reddit

I’d definitely put the likes of Ben Shapiro in that category. That’s what finally made me turn him off.

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MyIguanaTypedThis@reddit

There are entire threads on conservative subs calling for his deporting: https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/1jggusp/deport_mahmoud_khalil/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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Fun-Summer1056@reddit

Yea same here

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DorkyDame@reddit

Same here!

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cecarlton@reddit

Break a law, you get a consequences.

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chris_s9181@reddit

Your also forgetting criticizing musk can get you in trouble

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Quad-G-Therapy@reddit

The sucking off of Israel by both sides is insane to me

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Disastrous-Year-4545@reddit

Wet disappointed with the conservative stance on this guy Khalil with the green card.

What they’re accusing him of it’s kind of hard to differentiate it from a speech crime …….. at the same time he’s not a citizen so should his free speech really be respected?….. I kind of think yes…… after all they did to us during the Covid era silencing us. The conservatives had a very good talking point with their war for free speech……. Now they’re looking like complete hypocrites… extremely disappointing

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

Green card holders are not allowed the same free speech protections or rights as citizens. That is a fact. The government can deport any green card holder for any reason (whether they were convicted of a crime or not). Khalil should be deported for his actions in the illegal protest (intimidation, harassment, occupation, assault and vandalism during the protests that he participated in and negotiated with the University where he stated he wouldn’t stop protesting nor stop occupying the building until the University divested from Israel- which how could the University divest from Israel when they don’t work with Israel?)

AND he was a leader of the CUAD and organization that endorses Hamas. Hamas is a recognized terrorist group by the U.S. and many countries. He should be deported because he would be in direct violation of his green card/visa via the Anti-Terrorist Act of 2001 by being a leader of this organization and endorsing Hamas.

It’s one thing to criticize the war and Israel but to be part of group that endorses terrorists, and engage in protest that harassed, threatened, and intimidated Jewish students, occupy and vandalize a building, and staff who were in the building were assaulted- naw you are not engaging in free speech.

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FreeDarkChocolate@reddit

The government can deport any green card holder for any reason (whether they were convicted of a crime or not).

Green card holders are entitled to due process rights. "Any reason" would imply "the President didn't like the color of your shoes today" is okay but it's not. There are more ways they could legally be deported than some other groups but it far and away from "any reason" and they are certainly entitled to legal representation and appeals. For a recent case see Padilla v. Kentucky.

The scope of valid INA reasons for valid immediate deportation does not come close to covering these individuals.

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

You are being deliberately obtuse and clearly you know what it means but used a disingenuous example.

Green card holders, visa holders, and illegal immigrants have their own version of due process that is not the same as it is for citizens. They also have lesser rights and legal protections. He wasn’t denied representation.

If it’s due process you’re worried about, then focus on that and actually understand what due process is under immigration law and how you want it to be better. But most people who talk about due process don’t understand what that means for immigrants.

To claim this is a free speech issue when immigrants have lesser rights and protections while engaging in illegal protest. Is ignorant of the law and what Khalil (besides others) did at the campus protests. Besides that it’s just disingenuous. Just like it’s disingenuous to say that the other immigrant protestors being deported didn’t violate their visas (either by the illegal protest, illegal activities, or working with/praising a terrorist organization). Or that the students that are citizens and were arrested were “innocent” but engaged in illegal protest and activities that are not protected by the first amendment.

Occupying a building, assault, threats, intimidation, harassment, vandalism, preventing the movement of others- is not protected free speech and is not peaceful protest.

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Disastrous-Year-4545@reddit

That’s the most informative take on the whole situation I’ve heard since it dropped! And I see a fair amount of news commentary from various places.. I got more facts than I have this whole time with that one comment.

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

I’m glad I was able to help. I will add also that Khalil failed to state on his green card application he had previously worked for the Syria office of the British Embassy in Beirut and was a member of the UNRWA (members of the UNRWA have been found to work with Hamas). That is enough reason to deport him. You have to be completely honest when applying for a green card. It doesn’t matter if you were paid, volunteered, or were an intern. If you joined the communist party in Russia or were arrested- it needs to be stated in order for them to investigate it thoroughly.

This is ONE of the reasons for his deportation. This has never been an attack on free speech, but something to appeal to people who don’t know the details of the case to rally around blindly. I blame the media and activists for spreading misinformation.

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Disastrous-Year-4545@reddit

I’m watching The Young Turks to see what the left is pitching and that’s exactly what they’re doing. So this guy set up shop in a building and refused to leave? Vandalized and assaulted people?

This was an approach. It was a full on coercive takeover occupation?!

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gatornatortater@reddit

had previously worked for the Syria office of the British Embassy in Beirut

Dude sure looks look like a spook to me.

> Khalil then spent years working for the British government’s Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, managing the Chevening Scholarship from the British embassy in Beirut and supporting diplomats with his language skills and local knowledge.[18] In 2022, he immigrated to the U.S. on a student visa to attend SIPA.

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Klutzy-Sun-6648@reddit

Could be. 🤷‍♀️ I find it suspicious (so does our government) to not share that information on the green card application.

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MarshalThornton@reddit

Given that corporations have free speech rights, surely natural humans do as well.

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Mountain-Papaya-492@reddit

If you say free speech only applies to 'citizens' within these borders then that goes against the foundational beliefs of these rights being inherent in all of us.

If only 'citizens' have free speech then it means that its a gift from government. Everyone within our borders, legal or illegal are entitled to have their unalienable liberties respected. Atleast according to our ideology.

Our government is designed to safeguard these liberties, they don't give them to us.

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itsthegreek@reddit

There’s protected free-speech and non-protected free speech.

Receiving a student visa is a privilege not a right. If you break the law and you aren’t a citizen, you are sent back to your home country, as simple as that.

Saying you dislike Israel and protesting their actions 👍

Inciting crowds to chant about spilling the blood of Jews from river to sea 👎

This country doesn’t have full free speech, always remember that. Even American citizens can’t get away with saying anything they want, what makes you think that it’d be any different for someone that’s essentially a visitor in this country?

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WHOA_27_23@reddit

Inciting crowds to chant about spilling the blood of Jews from river to sea

Everyone lawfully present in the US should have the same rights detailed in NSPA v. Skokie and Brandenburg v. Ohio. The only reason citizen speech is curtailed is because the immediate public safety interest outweighs the individual liberty interest, not merely because the government or anyone else might find it distasteful. Thus, if a citizen would not be considered an imminent danger necessitating restraint on their liberty for saying the same thing, neither is a legal resident alien.

I find a lot of what they say abhorrent, I'm married to a Jew. There is zero chance, however, that a bunch of privileged leftoid college students are literally actually going to start killing Jews or providing material support to Hamas. Anyone who doea, revoke their visa and throw them in jail.

You aren't crazy for disagreeing or having a different line in the sand, that's just my 0.02.

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Sargo8@reddit

"Any alien— (i) who a consular officer or the Attorney General knows, or has reason to believe, has engaged, is engaging, or seeks to enter the United States to engage, in an offense which is described in section 1956 or 1957 of title 18 (relating to laundering of monetary instruments); or (ii) who a consular officer or the Attorney General knows is, or has been, a knowing aider, abettor, assister, conspirator, or colluder with others in an offense which is described in such section; is inadmissible. (3) Security and related grounds (A) In general Any alien who a consular officer or the Attorney General knows, or has reasonable ground to believe, seeks to enter the United States to engage solely, principally, or incidentally in— (i) any activity (I) to violate any law of the United States relating to espionage or sabotage or (II) to violate or evade any law prohibiting the export from the United States of goods, technology, or sensitive information, (ii) any other unlawful activity, or (iii) any activity a purpose of which is the opposition to, or the control or overthrow of, the Government of the United States by force, violence, or other unlawful means, is inadmissible."

U.S.C. Title 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY

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calisoldier@reddit

This phenomenon (demands to deport critics of Israel) is unknown to me. Are there some examples I’m missing? Or are you referring to the foreign students being deported for organizing protests?

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dstillz1111@reddit

I voted for Trump but I definitely regret it now amd wish I would've stuck to my libertarian vote.

Things were hopeful in the first 30 days bit the last month has proven that its same shit different admin.

And like Tom woods says, no matter who you vote for you get John McCains foreign policy

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MathiasThomasII@reddit

Haven’t met a single person supporting deportations for political beliefs.

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ExplorerEnjoyer@reddit

If you’re in the US on a green card you’ll probably get deported for attending a pro-Palestine event

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SteveBlakesButtPlug@reddit

From my understanding, he was also handing out pro Hamas flyers and literature. Not that I agree with deporting him, but you can cancel a green card for just about anything.

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MyIguanaTypedThis@reddit

What’s a “pro Hamas” flyer? One that criticizes Israel?

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SteveBlakesButtPlug@reddit

I'd imagine that it's a flyer that is passed out that sheds a favorable light on Hamas, like calling them freedom fighters and things of the sort.

Israel and Palestine can both suck me off, as far as I'm concerned.

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MyIguanaTypedThis@reddit

Sounds made up, like the idea that anyone would willingly suck you off.

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RussianBotProbably@reddit

If he applied for the greencard saying he was pro hamas, he would 100% not get accepted. Let alone promoting hamas. Sorry but we have enough terrorist sympathizers in America already…no need to import more.

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rpv123@reddit

Weird because they’re all over my FB.

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crash12345@reddit

You probably haven't met him, but Trump and his administration very clearly support this.

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MathiasThomasII@reddit

That’s why I said any actual person I’ve met. Like, real people. Assuming every republican, democrat, etc supports ALL their associated admin decisions is not a good take. It just generates hate for people that don’t even share the belief.

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taysbeans@reddit

But if you support Trump and your conservative groups support Trump . You are supporting either this rhetoric and possibly actions . He has already sent people to Guantanamo. Which people we don’t even know. Hopefully only dangerous people , but even that is a little too wide of a word to mean anything .

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MarshalThornton@reddit

Have you met a Trump voter willing to hold this administration to account? Far too many just shake their head and go “well I don’t agree with everything, MAGA 2025! Greatest president of our lifetime. Woo!”

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bongobutt@reddit

Depends on what you mean by "willing to hold" to "account." Right-leaning folks are much less likely to go scorched earth over every minor dispute. They don't think Trump is perfect. But that isn't the same thing as claiming that Trump "could do better." Some of his base genuinely think Trump is incapable of error (because even the poor decisions are just part of a larger plan or strategy), but this is by no means all of his base. The majority of his base simply doesn't care about if Trump is perfect, because some things just matter more. And for the important stuff, Trump always talks a good game (even if it is different from what he said just 6 months ago), and that is good enough for his base. Voters don't actually care about flip flopping. They care about authenticity. Even when Trump lies, the lie is only thinly veiled. He talks like a salesman, and everyone knows that a salesman is going to play up the details in their own favor. But when you size up a salesman, you aren't analyzing the tiny lies. You are sizing up the person. Is this person being straight with me? Are they being honest about their intentions? To this end, Trump's machismo energy works to his favor. He doesn't care about appearances or hurting feelings. So that allows people to establish a bit of report with him. Not everyone is going to like it, sure. But it works well enough for some people.

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crash12345@reddit

The point of the meme is that the literal leader of the MAGA movement exhibits this pretty egregious hypocrisy. Regardless of his supporters’ views.

If you’re correct that his supporters are largely against this policy, then I hope they vocalize this. Because I certainly haven’t seen that either. People’s liberty is at stake, this is not some petty disagreement over tariff rates.

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ThinInvestigator4953@reddit

They will wait for marching orders before commenting.

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ly5ergic@reddit

Do you hang out with many Trump supporters and ask them what they think?

Most people are in a bit of a bubble even when they think they aren't. I've seen a good amount on Reddit, there is even one in here, and tons in comment sections in news articles.

I know some people offline, I am pretty sure, support the deportations.

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MathiasThomasII@reddit

Yes, I live in Indiana. My entire family are trump supporters. Along with majority of my city, county and state.

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ly5ergic@reddit

Are they having any second thoughts with some of the stuff going on?

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MathiasThomasII@reddit

Second thoughts on what? They’re vote? No, but of course they question some decisions like with any president. However cutting DoE and other wasteful agencies is a huge fucking W

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ly5ergic@reddit

Yes that is what I was asking.

I still think there's a lot more people than you think that do support deporting people for speech. After 9/11 my neighbor was going on how we should deport, detain, and investigate anyone of who looked like or was middle eastern descent. I also know multiple people back then that said we should just bomb or nuke them all and get it over with.

There's a good amount far left and far right that cheer limiting speech they disagree with and prosecuting people they disagree with. They aren't the average person but they aren't super rare either.

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MathiasThomasII@reddit

You’re now equating cross party decisions to republicans after 9/11. Obama killed more innocent middle easterners with drones than any president before him. Both sides of the aisle supported the fight in the Middle East for 20 years and it was a republican that pulled us out.

Bigotry and racism is not a one sided issue like you’re trying to make it seem.

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ly5ergic@reddit

Yeah, I remember. Bush's approval rating was at an all time high because of broad public support. The person I was talking about was a Democrat.

I don't understand how what you are saying is relevant or what I said that was one-sided. I wasn't talking about any party decisions. You're reading between the lines and adding stuff that isn't there or intended.

You'll probably be ranting about Obama out of context 10 years from now. And other people will make some weird non-existent connection to rant about Trump 10 years from now.

I was talking about my old Italian democrat neighbor (get rid of all people who look Middle Eastern), my Republican uncle (nuke them), and other people I have spoken to. Nothing I said has anything to do with any president. I was and have been talking about individuals on all sides who have extreme anti-freedom beliefs.

We rounded up Japanese and Chinese. We had slaves. Hitler gained power. Some Muslims have chosen to be terrorists. This has nothing to do with Obama, Trump, party, etc. It's human nature that some will get extreme on their beliefs and go along with and support things.

To pretend like that doesn't affect Americans and that there aren't people happy to remove people who disagree with them is ignorant.

I was talking to a person on Reddit that was saying people on the right should be arrested and charged for "misinformation" and "hate speech" This is the bonkers shit I'm talking about.

Bigotry and racism exist on ALL sides. There are extreme people in EVERY group. My point was just because you are around more level headed reasonable people doesn't mean there aren't a lot (but still a minority) of people that fully support deporting or detaining people they disagree with. You make it sound like they don't exist.

I specifically said people on the left do the same thing so I have no clue how you interpreted anything I said as one sided or whatever you are going on about.

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anxietyattacks77@reddit

Mahmoud Khalil, incarcerated for participation in a constitutionally protected act. It's already happening.

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Richie_Rich1947@reddit

Very few Trump voters I know agree with the ladder. They do exist though.

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MathiasThomasII@reddit

Do you know what the “latter” means? I’ll assume no since you didn’t spell or use the world properly.

You’ve met someone that believes anyone criticizing Israel should get you deported? I don’t believe you lol

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anxietyattacks77@reddit

The Columbia University protests are an example of this. Yunseo Chung is her name. A legal citizen fighting deportation due to exercising her constitutional rights.

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Cartographer_MMXX@reddit

Yes, it's actually pretty common how many people want to become a dictatorship. Do you know how many people genuinely believe the president shouldn't be questioned? We don't have a supreme leader, yet there are those who would support it, but only for their preferred candidate.

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cyrusthemarginal@reddit

"World" sucks when you correct spelling and autocorrect tosses you under the bus eh?

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Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit

That is not "political beliefs". That is literal terrorism. Palestine is basically ruled by a terrorist organization, and people hide rockets in people's houses.

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somethingcreative987@reddit

You should read further down in the comments

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I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit

I’m out of the loop. Who’s censoring speech now?

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SlyguyguyslY@reddit

"Deport any non-citizen who is acting as an agent a hostile foreign power." There you go.

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Tacoshortage@reddit

Strawman argument. I have never seen anyone arguing what the bottom sign says.

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crash12345@reddit

Except Trump himself? How do you explain the deportations of pro-Palestine protestors?

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Tacoshortage@reddit

You are doing it now. You are conflating "protestor" with "criticism".

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mikey-likes_it@reddit

Is protesting not an expression of criticism?

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Toaster_Toastman@reddit

I'm going to agree here, I don't know a single MAGA arguing the bottom.

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BlackDahliaMuckduck@reddit

"Deport anyone who is here illegally."

There, I fixed it for you.

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tHeiR1sH@reddit

Yeah…the OP is being only SLIGHTLY sensational.

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Mecduhall91@reddit

Maga wants to jail, arrest and deport when people criticizes king trump….and they talk about America being free

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AM-64@reddit

That's literally both sides at this point.

Red and Blue are essentially different sides of the same coin.

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Rowd1e@reddit

I don’t know anyone with the bottom opinion.

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AceBagz43@reddit

Maybe I haven’t been paying attention but I have never spoken to one trump voter who has said some dumb shit like this

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sadson215@reddit

Well the more intellectually honest position would be. Should we deport visa and green card holders who act as agitators in the United States.

On the one hand allowing them to stay so long as they don't violate any laws. Is inline with the principles of the United States.

On the other hand it allows foreign intelligence operatives the opening to conduct psyops on the people of the united states'.

I think he should have been arrested charged and had a trial if they thought he was operating in the capacity of an act of war against America.

Otherwise he should be allowed to stay. Deporting him was unamerican

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Brownsboi616@reddit

Are pro Russian or Ukrainian protestors "agitators"? What side gets to pick who are agitators and who are just supporting the right side?

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sadson215@reddit

Sounds like you're pretty dense. If you finish reading the post you responded to and your IQ is above your age. My position should be perfectly clear.

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TheRadler@reddit

Who are you talking about?

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DXDoug@reddit

Constitutional conservative. But maybe not what i guess this picture implies. I wouldnt want the bottom pic to happen

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Obi_1_Kenobee@reddit

That’s not what they’re being deported for and you know it. Meme is disingenuous.

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ThisAintDota@reddit

Im shocked it took me this long to scroll and find this.

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An_Australian_Guy@reddit

Please. They only care about rights when it's of use to them.

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StevenK71@reddit

There's an Orwellian touch in this. Probably Trump never bothered with what "1984" was about, so he is condemned to repeat it.

The only good thing about this is that the opposition doesn't need to be very inventive with its arguments, they have all been argued before.

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atli_gyrd@reddit

Where are you seeing this? Haven't ran into it yet.

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soleilange@reddit

Reddit Libertarians > Facebook Libertarians

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boulhouech@reddit

Freedom of expression is only as free as the MAGA allow it to be, the moment you question their version of what is right, they will try to strip away your right to speak up

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Most_Refuse9265@reddit

It’s almost like they occupy our government so that we explicitly do their bidding rather than us acting as a mere ally who must be convinced.

What else would you call it when there are nearly as many Israeli flags as American flags in the halls of Congress, one outside almost every Rep’s and Senator’s office?

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boogaloobruh@reddit

You can criticize them, you just can support terrorists, big difference. I don’t think we should give them another red cent of American money however I’m rooting for their success, independently from us.

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Content_Educator6079@reddit

Censorship is generally not cool

Sometimes it's understood in very specific context

Like yelling fire in a movie theater

Germany censoring public expression of nazi rhetoric and paraphernalia kinda makes sense also lol

Censoring people just cause they don't agree with your official state political position is whack

I realize I'm hypocritical for thinking Germany should censor Nazi shit tbh given my last sentence ^

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AutoModerator@reddit

The 'fire in a crowded theater' case was unanimously overturned by the Supreme Court decades ago. Stop using such a flawed and outdated analogy to argue for restrictions on free speech.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

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Content_Educator6079@reddit

Damn automod food for thought

Aight bruh

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Random_Monstrosities@reddit

Both the Democrat and Republican parties are both fail our country.

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Dollar_Bills@reddit

If there weren't double standards, they'd have no standards

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Random_Monstrosities@reddit

I'm stealing this

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Dollar_Bills@reddit

You can have it for free.

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Random_Monstrosities@reddit

Thanks, but that's not how I work, pal

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Dollar_Bills@reddit

You're welcome, buddy.

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gatornatortater@reddit

The bottom bit seems awfully generalized for something that seems to only be about one specific guy who is an obvious MI6 agent. You just go look at his background.

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SaundersTurnstone@reddit

Conservatives seem to be incredibly split on this issue. Haven’t gotten the impression is a cumulative blind support situation.

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AwkwardViking15@reddit

Infringement of any speech should not be permissible period.

There have been several supreme Court cases over the past 100 yrs that have discussed this rather indepth before.

I've added a link to an article that covers this. 1st Amendment Extreme cases.

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lil-salt@reddit

What?

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sidhsinnsear@reddit

They aren't deporting them because they are saying mean things, they deporting them because they are stalking and harassing Jewish students, advocating for genocide, and supporting terrorist organisations. That is not covered under First Amendment rights.

My father in law had to drive to Columbia and pick up his daughter because she was too scared to leave the dorm by herself. No one should be attacked for their race in American schools, and people who are hurting American citizens need to go.

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aCellForCitters@reddit

That is not covered under First Amendment rights.

If what they were doing was a criminal offense and not protected by the 1st amendment, you bet your ass they'd be charging them right now. They're not. You're lying or you were lied to. Stop licking boots.

My father in law had to drive to Columbia and pick up his daughter because she was too scared to leave the dorm by herself.

Sounds like she was a pussy. My University had an encampment and I'd hi-five them every time I passed while working, witnessed people dancing, having dinner, observing shabbat, etc

No one should be attacked for their race in American schools, and people who are hurting American citizens need to go.

Constitutional rights are not just for citizens. No one was being attacked for their race. Professional zionist victims are working their propaganda on you. Jews were arrested on my campus and are now being charged with felonies because they protested against genocide. Those are the only Jewish students who faced any actual oppression.

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RussianBotProbably@reddit

Can people with a green card vote? Seems like there are limits to the constitution when you aren’t a citizen.

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aCellForCitters@reddit

Yeah, and it says that explicitly in the constitution.

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AbolishtheDraft@reddit

They aren't deporting them because they are saying mean things

They're deporting them because they're criticizing Israel. Everything else you listed is being thrown out there as a pretext, if these protests were against any other country then Khalil and the others wouldn't be facing deportation

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Enkeydo@reddit

I voted for Trump and I have never said that. The only reason I did not vote libertarian was because if the Republicans did not win this time this country was lost.

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Exciting-Insect-8813@reddit

The current administration has done some things I really like and somethings I really don’t. I had really hoped they would pull back from supporting Israel. Instead they have leaned into it. But hey, I am not staying up at night anymore wondering if Russia is going to nuke us.

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NaturalBornRebel@reddit

Reddit will also ban your account for criticizing Israel.

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NaturalBornRebel@reddit

Reddit will also ban your account for criticizing Israel.

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SassysGod@reddit

That's definitely not the case. You can deport people who have connections to terrorists, right??

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heylistenlady@reddit

The cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics never cease to astound me. Like ... Seriously, it's stunning

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DixieNormas011@reddit

Should be important to note that It isn't just the MAGA side of the aisle that won't protest Isreal. That old saying about Once you find who you cannot criticize, you've found who actually has the power.....betting Isreal has owned the federal government for a long damn time now, it's just now finally being exposed.

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1127_and_Im_tired@reddit

There are some who have spent decades trying to expose Israel for their hostile actions towards the United States while claiming to be our ally. Look at the attack for the USS Liberty. It was 100% Israel attacking us knowingly, and the president and military told the few men who survived to keep their mouths shut or they would be harmed. Many of those men are still trying to bring attention to the attack and other atrocities committed by Israel.

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DixieNormas011@reddit

It gets even more obvious as soon as you start to dig into the rabbit hole and realize how many US politicians and their friends have a dual citizenship with Isreal. Been happening forever, but i think the lid is finally blowing off the entire thing.

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VerneUnderWater@reddit

Conservative on this site I swear to god is the most profoundly ridiculous place now. It's just a bunch of shills, bots, and randoms. Used to be decent, but much like all of Reddit, it's just a propaganda haven now. Cuz Trump daddy is savior of all that lives or has.

We need to completely demolish our entire political system. Very soon.

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SgtJayM@reddit

Totally ignoring the fact that the visa holders lied about ties to terrorist organizations and organized the taking of hostages on campus.

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nein_nubb77@reddit

This is the truth and the fact that Israel has a hand in our politics is frankly disgusting. Congressman Thomas Massie is the only republican to reject foreign donors. This doesn’t mean, Massie and many with others are antisemitic cough cough Ben Shapiro.

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sadson215@reddit

While there is a point to be made here and the comic does a great job at highlighting the hypocrisy of promoting our freedoms and not extending them to our visitors as well.

The comic is a bit of a strawman which is fine. It's a comic making a valid point.

The issue is with some posts here taking the strawman and pushing propaganda. That type of nonsense is why other libertarian subs look down on this one

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Wild-Ad-6983@reddit

MAGA during election: FREE SPEECH FREEDOM EQUALITY JUSTICE

MAGA after winning: KILL EVERYONE EXCEPT CHRISTIANS AND JEWS AMERICAN SUPERIORITY

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AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit

They love America and what it stands for so much that they want it to be illegal to burn the national flag because it represents free speech.

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thelosttribe@reddit

So clever with those capital letters mixed in… Or just elementary school kid

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bt4bm01@reddit

Sad but true

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Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit

There is a difference. Free Palestine movement is a terrorist organization. Palestine never was a real country, never had their own language, and those people could move about 50 kilometers to live in peace and speak the same language as they do now.

Both sides committed many many war crimes, but the thing is that Palestine is not even a country, therefore it is not even a war of two countries. They are just troublemakers that live for the purpose of killing Israeli people.

In the last 2 months or so, I met Palestinian protester 3 times. One time they walked into a McDonald's where I wanted to eat, they threw a liter of fake blood on the floor, and they played air siren sounds, carried toy babies with fake blood and torn clothes, and shouted to destroy Israel and that everyone in that McDonald's should be ashamed of themselves for whatever reason. And this was in Western Europe, not the Middle East.

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SatiatedPotatoe@reddit

Deport all illegal immigrants.

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Parabellum12@reddit

Totally irrelevant here.

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crash12345@reddit

It’s because they ‘illegal’ now means whatever we want it to mean. That is the risk of deporting ‘illegal immigrants’ without due process. You can make up any pretext (eg criticizing Israel) and call it illegal.

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Ecstatic-Inevitable@reddit

Did you read the post? That wasn't what was stated

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Parking_War_4100@reddit

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. “

Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

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Ok-Builder-1177@reddit

The hypocrisy is astounding.

Must be draining trying to play mental gymnastics to justify the corruption of this government.

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Secondhand-politics@reddit

It gets better! Apparently they're now trying to justify removal of due process AND collateral arrests. They're EAGER to have United States citizens deported.

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Ok-Builder-1177@reddit

Exactly, how is that behavior any different from what we see from authoritarian governments in Turkey, Russia, Iran or Venezuela?

Same ish different air freshener.

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