Is unpaid overtime mandatory in UK?
Posted by OkArea7640@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 135 comments
Immigrant here.
I work in IT. In the last weeks my team has been buried in work due to a colossal foul up made by another team. As a result, our queues have been bloated.
I have seen that all my other team mates have been doing unpaid overtime to clean their queues, and they were talking about that like it is the most normal thing in the world. My team leader hinted that I should do so, but I pretended not to understand. Just let it be clear, I AM NOT DOING UNPAID OVERTIME, not a single minute.
Should I tell my team leader to go to hell and stop telling me to work for free? Should I tell my team mates that they are a bunch of idiots for agreeing to be exploited like this? Do I have any legal recourse in case things get ugly?
By the way, I am already doing job interviews. I hope that I will be out of there soon.
No-Mud-10@reddit
I reported my employer (anonymously) for modern day slavery for pressure to stay after hours, unpaid.
After an unannounced visit from the modern day slavery team, we all got back paid 3 months of work and the unpaid overtime stopped immediately.
sweetlevels@reddit
How did you report them? What were the circumstances for being able to report them? Just wondering as i would also like to do so...
KingXylariaCordycep@reddit
Did you ever get the answers you were looking for?
sweetlevels@reddit
Nope
geeered@reddit
Did this push you to under minimum wage then?
No-Mud-10@reddit
For some people yes, but not for me.
TheSecondNin@reddit
What issues did you raise about this?
SingerFirm1090@reddit
Let's turn this around.
You have an accident, you are admitted to A&E, will you expect the medics to walk off when their shift ends halfway through stiching you up?
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
You kidding? It's an IT job, not a life or death emergency.
You want work - you pay worker. You no pay worker - worker go home. Capisce?
Mysterious-Snow1414@reddit
People in the comments are all boot licker&seem to think every job is as important as doctors lol. IT isn't life or death. There shouldn't be a situation where you HAVE to stay overtime
geeered@reddit
They should get paid for overtime, at least if it's over a specific amount.
But they get paid a lot less well than many IT workers for a lot more stressful job.
gob_spaffer@reddit
Sounds like you're not much of a team player and are ungrateful for the opportunity you have been given.
You won't go very far in the job world if you can't handle a bit of extra work. Good luck with the job search.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
The opportunity to work for free while the owner gets even fatter? No thanks. People like you wonder why all good employees leave and why they end up working with idiots and desperate people.
You want work - you pay worker. You no pay worker - worker go away and find better job. Capisce?
gob_spaffer@reddit
No it's called being a lazy non-team player which nobody wants to promote who will struggle to achieve anything because they keep asking for overtime.
A players get the job done and then they get promoted into higher paying jobs because they don't whinge and instead just get the job done.
Not everyone is an A player or even a B player. You sound like a C player.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
> A players get the job done and then they get promoted into higher paying jobs because they don't whinge and instead just get the job done.
lol I stopped believing in that fairy tale about 40 years ago. Mate, either you are trolling, or you are an employer
Flat_News_2000@reddit
They're obviously some kind of manager
gob_spaffer@reddit
I've semi-retired, now just do part time consultancy. Was a subordinate for most of my career though.
And I did very well being a team player and going above and beyond when it was necessary.
As per the ops story, a massive fuck up has occurred, it's all hands on deck. You don't have to do anything you're not contracted to, but that just puts you at the bottom of the promotion queue and hiring people can smell that attitude a mile off. It leaks out into everything you do.
So sure, sit back, let others pick up the slack, tell your boss to do one.
And then don't be surprised when you're career stagnates.
Best_Sugar8611@reddit
Weird take in my opinion, people have private lives and hobbies, why sacrifice yourself for work that is not even paid. That’s just crazy, because who guarantees a promotion at then? Enough good workers get screwed over while killing themselves for the job. I agree with the OP, unpaid overtime is a big no and oversteps a big boundary in today’s world, time is money
Stunning_Vegetable17@reddit
Thanks boss
Hazz3r@reddit
Your contracted hours are, as you would expect, in your contract.
Your contract should also detail any specifics regarding what the expectations are for working overtime.
The only legal recourse would be if the overtime you are being asked to do would take you under the national minimum wage.
Otherwise, if it's in your contract that they can ask you to work unpaid overtime, I'm pretty sure you're out of luck. After all, you signed the contract.
If there's nothing in the contract regarding working outside of your contracted hours, then yeah, they can't legally make you do anything, and they can't openly punish you for it, but I would expect the company would begin proceedings to manage you out of the company.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
> begin proceedings to manage you out of the company.
Good riddance, I am a worker, not an unpaid slave. I am doing job interviews in the meantime.
sihasihasi@reddit
You seem very angry.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
I am. They are trying to force me to work for free, and I can see that many people are happy to be treated like slaves. I think it's a good reason to be angry.
sihasihasi@reddit
That depends. Is this normal? Or it is just "the shit's hitting the fan - we need to all pull together for a week"?
And stop exaggerating. Nobody is being treated like a slave - you do yourself no favours talking like that.
Are they? Are you hourly paid or salaried?
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
I have a fixed salary. I am not lowering my salary by working more hours than agreed.
sihasihasi@reddit
That's ... not how it works. In every salaried job I've ever worked at, in several different industries, there's been some give and take. You show some good will, and the employer will do the same.
That doesn't mean you have to accept working 48 hours, a week every week, but maybe once in a blue moon, you may have to stay a little longer occasionally. Your contract is employment almost certainly says that you agree to this.
Your bloody-minded attitude just sounds terribly naïve. It can only serve to alienate your teammates and your employer.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
> ETA - you're not lowering your salary, that's a ridiculous notion.
Working more hours for the same salary is the same of lowering your hourly pay. Same money for more hour is the same of less pay for same hours. Have you failed basic maths in primary school?
sihasihasi@reddit
You need to get your head out of the hourly pay mindset
That's the last I will say on the subject.
To answer your initial question: No there's no legal recourse unless the extra work takes you below the effective minimum hourly wage. Your options are to. Suck it up or leave.
b0dyr0ck2006@reddit
You are contrast yourself here and OP is correct. If you work extra hours outside of your contracted hours, this brings your effective hourly rate down. As you stated, “unless the extra hours takes you below the effective hourly wage”
Case in point. I’m currently in dispute with my company. I’m salaried and the contract is 38.75 hours a week, 8:30-17:00. I’m a mobile worker using a supplied work van, with no fixed place of work. so my working hours are classed as door to door. I’ve been leaving home between 8:00/8:30 and the director has booked me in for a meeting to discuss “timekeeping” due to the expectation of the company that we should be arriving to the job at 8:30. This travel time would be outside of the contracted hours but they refuse to pay for it. The same on the return journey, expected to stay at the job until 17:00 and then travel back home, unpaid.
This travel time would equate to around 4 hours each day and would reduce my effective hourly wage to below minimum wage
sihasihasi@reddit
An extra 4 hours a day, is most definitely not acceptable.
b0dyr0ck2006@reddit
This is my argument and now have to fight my point for a second time with the director. As a side note, I rarely if ever, get home by 17:00 (leaving home by 8:30) and is fairly common to be between 18:00/20:00. None of this is ever paid
sihasihasi@reddit
Yeah, that's shit. But it's not even remotely the same situation as that of OP, they were arguing against ever doing any extra hours, and that's just not how salaried jobs work - some give & take is often required, and normal.
4 hours every day is not that.
b0dyr0ck2006@reddit
Thought I would give you an update on my meeting today.
Boss said I’m paid for being on site from 8:30-17:00 and that they don’t pay for travel time, regardless of distance.
He listened to my points regarding travel time being working hours, as laid out by the ECJ in 2015, and how if I work 10+ hour days (door to door) consistently then it brings my hourly below minimum wage.
This didn’t seem to register in his head and re-iterated that he pays for a ‘decent days work’ for the contracted hours and leaving home at 8:30 is unacceptable.
I’ve got to suck it up or look elsewhere. I’m 46 and fed up with having to fight for my basic rights with every employer and never seemingly getting anywhere.
I only wanted a compromise that would work for both parties, but he wasn’t interested
bakedNdelicious@reddit
I’d give up trying to advise him now he’s started making insults - yet he’s the one who doesn’t understand contracts and salary vs hourly.
sihasihasi@reddit
Indeed. I have. OP is either a teenager in their first proper job, or simply an idiot. I know which one my money is on.
Mutterclucka@reddit
If you receive an annual salary you’re not paid hourly. You have an agreed annual salary based on the T&C’s in your contract. If it says extra required hours are expected as business dictates and it doesn’t take you below NMW rates then this is what you agreed when starting.
Was it in your contract? Are you still above NMW rates (taking additional hours into account)?
If you’re on a decent annual salary these things shouldn’t be an issue.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
> once in a blue moon, you may have to stay a little longer occasionally
I can agree with that
> ccept working 48 hours, a week every week,
That's what my employee is trying to do. Cannot get in more details
> You show some good will, and the employer will do the same.
That's not happening. My employer has decided to start squeezing us out for not extra pay, and my team mates are happy with that.
bakedNdelicious@reddit
You will lose your job if you break your contract. If you didn’t read it properly that is your fault.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Lol, my contract says: "work 40 hours at week, get X pay. You can work more than 40 hours, if there is an agreed overtime." The employers is breaking my contract, not me.
bakedNdelicious@reddit
So there is no clauses that state you may be asked to stay outside of usual working hours?
It seems like you just need to find another job
bakedNdelicious@reddit
It’s not “working for free”. We don’t know your salary or wages but my contract (as a salaried worker) says that sometimes it may be required to work longer than the usual office hours for certain reasons.
If I were to be asked to work on a Saturday, it’s overtime. Working past 5pm as a salary worker is not technically overtime in the same way.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
So you can work 24 hours at day as long as it is not a Saturday?
bakedNdelicious@reddit
That’s ridiculous and you know it
811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit
Unpaid overtime has been a common occurrence in my 20 years in tech/IT
The real kickers were 12hr shifts for go-lives at the weekend.. all unpaid until a lot of people kicked up a fuss.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Only a total idiot would do an unpaid 12 hours shift. I hope you are joking, not even at the lowest point of my life I would have agreed for that.
811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit
hah, I've done an unpaid AND unplanned 14hr night shift (after a typical day in the office) in the past, to prevent a go-live failing. I got rewarded in the end, mainly because it was a success, but I dunno, it's just sometimes something you do when you feel you 'personally own' responsibility for somethings, and that you feel the work is worthwhile.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Depends on what they gave you as a "kudos". Did you receive money or time off in lieu, or just a "thank you"?
>when you feel you 'personally own' responsibility for somethings, and that you feel the work is worthwhile.
That's wrong. Unless you own shares in the company, you are just slaving away for free while the owner gets the merit and the money. I hope that the owner's boot tastes good.
811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit
Wow.. you must be a hard person to manage.
I've always done tech/IT jobs that effect people, so I feel good when I do my job well. Sometimes it is life and death. Hence, I feel invested to do a good job.
I'm sure the 'kudos' (which included a financial reward, as well as internal recognition) I received also included the promotion I received not long after the event.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Naah, I am very compliant an easy to manage.
As long as you pay me for my job.
bakedNdelicious@reddit
lol bro, you asked advice, was given it and then insulted the people advising you. I think you sound like a HR/management nightmare.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Well, if your advice is "kiss and lick the manager's boot, it tastes soooo sweet!", then I have good reason to insult the advisor!
bakedNdelicious@reddit
No you don’t have a good reason. Grow up.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
I hope that the managers boot tastes good to you.
bakedNdelicious@reddit
Haha I am the manager
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
that explains everything. I would be of your same opinion if I was in your place.
bakedNdelicious@reddit
For the record, I just manage the team. I don’t write their contracts or benefit personally from people staying late to do work. And we do pay my staff over time for work above and beyond the normal scope (aka the occasional Saturday).
TheRookieRobot@reddit
Haha, In my old job I probably had the worst contract going. Not only was I expected to do almost unlimited unpaid overtime, but a minimum amount of overtime was baked into the contract.
I did these weekend shifts every other week up and down the country. Long hours often through the night or early morning to get the place ready to go live bright and early Monday where I was expected to be there an hour before the rest of the staff and be on site all day to help out with any issues. Then at the end of the day drive myself back home once the place closed.
Was I a total idiot? Probably haha, the money wasn’t even that good! But at the time i was just trying to pay the bills and keep a roof over my family’s head as my wife was in Uni for her career. The moment she graduated I bolted, sometimes we do what we have to do.
Kian-Tremayne@reddit
I was always paid overtime for go-lives and planned long shifts.
Having to stick around for 30 minutes or an hour after my notional logging off time to fix a particular problem, probably wouldn’t be claimed or approved, but on the flip side leaving 30 minutes early because things were quiet and I’d cleared my tasks wasn’t a problem either.
bishibashi@reddit
If you’re on an hourly rate fair enough, if you’re salaried sometimes you just get the job done.
CPH3000@reddit
No. If "getting the job done" routinely involves unpaid overtime, no.
one_pump_chimp@reddit
If you are on a salary it will usually say that you will work extra when required in your contract
No-Mud-10@reddit
100% you can agree to work extra , but working extra still requires being paid.
There's not a single contract that would be legal that could demand unpaid extra work.
one_pump_chimp@reddit
They can ask anything they like as long as it doesn't go below minimum wage.
CPH3000@reddit
I think you're being taken advantage of.
CPH3000@reddit
No.
I get paid a salary and there is no expectation of me to work extra. It says 38 hours a week for a yearly salary paid monthly. If I work in excess of the 38 hours that would dilute the salary we agreed.
one_pump_chimp@reddit
That's unusual. Nearly every contract I have seen has some language around "occasionally working outside of normal hours to ensure completion of critical tasks" or similar.
In fact it's quite something that your contract doesn't deal with what happens if you work extra hours.
CPH3000@reddit
But that's a separate conversation. OP was describing how the expectation was for them to work extra and receive no extra compensation or time off in lieu.
one_pump_chimp@reddit
Yea and it will depend what his contract says.
CPH3000@reddit
No contract will say "you are expected to work an undetermined amount of extra hours for no extra pay". Working outside of the contract is the very essence of OP's post.
one_pump_chimp@reddit
And I'm telling you yes it will and particularly the more senior you get the more flexible they will expect you to be
VOODOO285@reddit
With no respect, you're wrong. You may not be understanding what it says. While it may say that you may be required to work extra hours, they still have to pay you in either TOIL or OT pay.
Your contract has x money for y time. If the time increases but the money does not, they are in breach of their contract. The onus is on the employee to not get shafted because unscrupulous employers will take advantage.
Boil a contract to its absolute most basic terms and it's time for money. Never do extra for free.
A contract that said, you must do extra hours and we won't give you any form of remuneration back would never pass any legal test.
audienceandaudio@reddit
This isn't true. It's entirely legal to work unpaid hours, as long as it doesn't take you to below the legal minimum wage for your time.
If you're in a salaried position and have to do a task which will keep you at work 30 minutes later than normal, it is not contractually required to get that time back in either TOIL or OT. If your employment has always offered that, that's awesome, but it's not a legal requirement, as long as it doesn't take you below minimum wage, or it's not over 48 hours a week (over a few months rolling average).
VOODOO285@reddit
Yeah that's what I mean. There's legal provisions for it and part of being senior is significant remuneration to allow for this. Op on the other hand is clearly not senior and while they may need to go up to the 48 hour working time directive limit, their salary highly likely doesn't reflect that which would put them at risk of missing the minimum wage threshold. The point was not that the commenter was wrong under a certain set of circumstances, just that they were wrong to apply that logic to an entry level position.
Most places I've worked have been very swings and roundabouts. They either pay you for overtime without question or you get toil that may be unofficial.
one_pump_chimp@reddit
You are flat out wrong and I assume you have never had any senior job.
Contracts just say you will do whatever hours are required to get the job done.
VOODOO285@reddit
Can't argue with stupid. Love your level of assumption. Impressively wrong.
CPH3000@reddit
"I'm telling you"😆😆😆
Mutterclucka@reddit
What makes you think that?
Stunning_Vegetable17@reddit
Worth pointing out that there is a legal issue if it brings you below minimum wage.
VolcanicBear@reddit
Counter argument - in 16 years of being paid a salary, I have always been paid overtime. Sometimes you do need to work longer to get the job done, but you should always be paid for it.
Rubberfootman@reddit
25 years in graphic design and I’ve never worked in a studio which paid overtime - it is just not generally part of the culture. Only one offered TOIL.
EasilyInpressed@reddit
Companies will pay as little as they can get away with. In my previous job they had a culture of no paid overtime until it got to a point that i thought sod it and sent my manager my overtime hours for the week, explicitly stating i was expecting to be paid for them (politely but so there was no mistaking it for a an FYI). Got paid my extra hours and suddenly expectations that you’d do overtime at the drop off a hat suddenly turned into ‘don’t worry, finish it off tomorrow’.
bishibashi@reddit
Yeah fair enough, I’ve only ever had it in hourly rate jobs or if doing a weekend or similar. I’ve always worked in environments where it’s recognised that if you’re clearly putting in extra time then grabbing a morning off here and there isn’t an issue.
GastricallyStretched@reddit
Yeah, I get a salary, but I also have specific hours baked into the contract. If I work more than those hours, then I'm paid overtime.
Dopey_Armadillo_4140@reddit
For salaried jobs it should work both ways. Yeah sometimes you’ll work longer to get something done. But then you might take a longer lunch or finish early on another day to make up for it. At my work nobody tracks it either way but there’s a mutual trust. Get it done where needed but be fair to yourself too.
cyberllama@reddit
Same with me. If shit goes wrong or needs doing, I'll do what needs doing. In return, no one cares if I want to pop out for an hour or start late and finish early. Contrary to what reddit usually thinks, there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to keep yourself aware of the give and take balance.
Beartato4772@reddit
Yeah, this is how I handle it, if someone deals with something that takes them past hours I'll simply say I don't want to hear from them after lunch on Friday.
cfloweristradional@reddit
Nah just work your hours
Cyclops251@reddit
Why does your post begin with telling us you're an immigrant OP?
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Because I wanted to remark that I am unfamiliar with British work culture and mindset.
Cyclops251@reddit
How long have you been working in the UK?
audienceandaudio@reddit
In salaried jobs, this is a reasonable expectation if needed to deliver something (which your situation sounds like it is). It's not a reasonable expectation if you're expected to do this consistently. Pretty much everybody I know that works salary has stayed late at work to finish something / clear off tasks, and hasn't received any additional payment for it. By the sounds of it, you work a salaried position.
For hourly paid work, then this is not expected, and you should ensure you get compensated for it.
No, this would be a very stupid thing to do.
Legal recourse for what? If you've been working at a company for less than two years, you can be dismissed for any reason other than specifically discriminatory ones (they can't fire you because of your race, gender, sexuality etc). There's no legal recourse if they decide not to employ you anymore because of this.
Pretty much any salaried position will have the same expectation. If ensuring you get paid overtime is critical, I would suggest looking for a role as a contractor / one that is advertised at an hourly rate.
Polz34@reddit
Totally depends on the job and the contract. In some roles there is an expectation of unpaid overtime but other roles there isn't. My team for example, are all contracted to get paid overtime if they need to work more than their hours however I as their manager do not get paid overtime but may on rare occasion choose to work more than my standard week to get the work done. Sounds like your whole team are okay doing this, and you are not. Legally they can't do anything about it unless your contract has something written into it.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
So, you say that some people in UK are happy to work unpaid overtime? I would accept that if I was paid about 100K, but not for less.
There is nothing in my contract forcing me to do so, and I could not care less about the approval of my bootlicking team mates. I will just refuse to do unpaid overtime. I am a worker, not a slave.
Street_Inflation_124@reddit
If you are salaried, your pay is to fulfil the tasks as set out in your job description. If you receive wages you are paid based on the hours you do. Check which one you are.
bishibashi@reddit
You might be in the wrong industry
Kian-Tremayne@reddit
OP is definitely in the wrong industry.
saanij@reddit
Looks like you have made up your mind why take approval from Redditors? But on another note, it depends on your role and wording of your contract, if a fair amount of extra hours is fine. Like for me my official contract hours are 40 hours a week so a typical 9-5 job. But on some days, I can start early and end early. If there are no meetings I can do some hobby or exercise for half an hour and call off my day at 5.30. or if I was away for an appointment I can work an extra hour on a different day (mostly in a couple of weeks period). If this gives you some flexibility or official time in lieu then why not?
I suggest you take a sense of the job market first and then decide whether to work unpaid hours or choose a clever path of asking for flexibility. I believe the team members don't want to do that either but they have thrown a stone in the water and know it's not the best time for them.
thecuriousiguana@reddit
If your contract stipulates hours, then generally you should get time off in lieu. So basically if your contract is for 40 hours a week and you do 50, this should be logged and you get to take 10 hours off elsewhere.
I've had contracts written as "time required to complete the job" and in that case you just have to suck it up.
In your case, if they both specify hours and refuse you give extra hours back, then you have a choice: do them or don't. But the latter might ultimately mean you need to find a different job, as their expectations don't meet yours.
Polz34@reddit
'happy' is not the right word, but people do it not just in the UK but all over the World, is this your first job?!?
Mail-Malone@reddit
If you are on a salary usually unpaid overtime is expected, conversely you still get paid the same when you work less hours than normal. Swings and roundabouts.
BritishBlitz87@reddit
Sometimes the poo hits the fan and you have to put in extra work, a little give and take goes a long way
Can you honestly say you were working 100% of the time at work, maximum effort, even when it's quiet? No extended trips to the bog, stretching out tasks for an easy day, kettle chats, scrolling online killing time? Because I highly doubt the answer is yes.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
I am more than willing to give more, and to put more effort.
As long as it is paid.
sihasihasi@reddit
Salaried jobs have a notional number of hours per week, but there is generally some give & take. It will sometimes be expected that you'll work a bit longer to get over a hump, but that should be very occasional, and most employers will let you take the time back when it's quieter.
Your
...comes across as more than a little confrontational. If you're looking for another job, fine, but should you want to stay, your may want to reconsider.
Just to reiterate: This is not unusual, but it should be the exception. If it's regular, then it's a problem.
Finally, if you take another job which is salaried, you may find that it's exactly the same.
Cultural_Tank_6947@reddit
As long as you get paid at least minimum wage for your actual hours worked, everything else is a contractual agreement between you and your employer.
dans-la-mode@reddit
Let's hope the surgeon doesn't have the same attitude when he's performing surgery on you.
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Are you drunk or trolling?
royalblue1982@reddit
Most contracts will be written in a way that says that you will be required to work more than your stated hours on an ad-hoc basis. The only legal requirements are:
The extent that people do work unpaid overtime is really dependent on the situation. It's normal in some industries that either pay really well, or have good promotion opportunities. Less so in industries where employers will just leave and find another job.
Beartato4772@reddit
To marginally expand, you absolutely can work more then 48 in a week, but it's an average over something like 4 months.
oudcedar@reddit
It’s not mandatory but in many places is a cultural norm which you need to either go along with or find somewhere where clock watching is admired.
I’ve certainly got rid of otherwise good people in IT who always had to leave on time because that didn’t work for our clients or the company culture. Obviously I’ve kept on erratic but brilliant people, but those talents are few.
CPH3000@reddit
You are part of the problem.
oudcedar@reddit
Don’t be so naive
CPH3000@reddit
Stop giving people employment contracts if you expect them to deliver more than what is agreed.
Funny how the expectation is on the employee to over-deliver and never the employer.
oudcedar@reddit
I know these salaries will seem tiny now but back around 2000 when I last worked in IT I thought that anyone with 2 years experience getting £70k salary had better be all in, no matter what the contract said. My thoughts then were that if the company delivered a decent salary the employee could choose whether they went with the work hard, play hard, culture or not.
KeyJunket1175@reddit
If I am constantly expected to do overtime then my compensation should reflect that. Otherwise, you start with a relatively low salary (relative to the country's affordability and min. wage) then most employers provide 0 salary progression, but not even annual correction for inflation. On top of that now you want to normalize non-paid overtime. You are promoting an U.S. like work culture with third world real salaries. Oh and at the same time you force people to be in the office, just for the sake of being in the office. Either because you like breathing down on your employee's neck and micromanage everyone 24/7, or because you made a shit choice and now have a pointless office lease to justify.
mrhippoj@reddit
I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to get rid of people for not working overtime. Sometimes I'll work unpaid overtime, but that's me doing my employer a favour. If you're expecting people to work overtime, not paying them for doing so, and getting rid of them when they don't, then you are working for a shitty company that treats their employees poorly.
oudcedar@reddit
I’m pretty sure you have two years to get to know if the person is the right fit for the company and you don’t need to give a reason formally, although it would be silly if you didn’t make clear your disappointment verbally a few times first.
EvilTaffyapple@reddit
Check your contract - a lot of them have a clause along the lines of “working the necessary amount of time in order to complete your role”, which means there may be occasions you need to put extra hours in, and that is expected of you.
Uncoolusername007@reddit
Working for free. Fuck that!
OkArea7640@reddit (OP)
Apparently, my team mates love it and a lot of users here consider it normal
mumwifealcoholic@reddit
There is a lot of presentism in the UK. Lots of folks working long hours, and yet our productivity is in the shitter. They think that more hours is better.
I work my contracted hours productively.
Cyclops251@reddit
That's not true is it? None of your team mates have said they "love it", have they?
You are coming across as rather aggressive and angry, are you aware of that?
Classic_Mammoth_9379@reddit
It depends on quite a few factors but I think most organisations can and do expect a bit of flexibility and occasionally putting a few hours in to get the job done in execptional circumstances, I think you should be prepared to do that occasionally. However you've mentioned queues of work, the fact that you all seem to be doing it and this is normal, so I would agree with you that this sounds like a time where the business needs to work out their priorities and decide if the work is important enough to pay for else it won't get done.
I love a bit of PAID overtime personally so I'd be saying to my boss "It looks like we have a bit of a blacklog, I've got quite a lot going on at home at the moment but for the good of the company, I can do a few extra hours at 2x if you guys need it"
carlovski99@reddit
Doing it sometimes, because of something going wrong, or because you are putting some kind of project live is pretty standard in IT.
It regularly happening because of poor planning, being understaffed or covering for genuine incompetence is not good though.
Legally - if you have been there less than 2 years they can quite easily get rid of you without much fuss.
MrCreepyUncle@reddit
If you're salaried then it depends on your contract.
Though it's worth noting that even if unpaid overtime is your contract, you'll still be capped at 48 hours unless you sign a opt-out, which is your choice.
Also, depending on your pay, if that overtime takes your average pay below minimum wage, that's very illegal.
Curious-Ranger9605@reddit
A lot of people in my business do that but we are a non-profit and people just get on with the work. It is not mandatory or due to overt pressure from management (except the workload is high). Eventually however people do leave as it is next to impossible for some to do all their work within their paid time.
It is difficult to resolve as we barely survived covid as a going concern, so overtime pay would be unaffordable until we can rebuild our reserves and hire more people.
Kian-Tremayne@reddit
Depends on the job, but my contract for a salaried role in technology has always included words along the line of “and such additional hours as may be required from time to time”.
You can tell your team leader to go to hell if you like. Just be aware of the consequences, especially if you are in a salaried job with an expectation that you get problems fixed. I was once on an incident call for a problem with a bank’s payments system, and one of the technical experts tried announcing that it was the end of his working day so he would be logging off now and leaving the problem unfixed. The incident manager was not impressed. You do not want to be down range of an unimpressed incident manager.
No-Jicama-6523@reddit
If you are paid hourly, no you shouldn’t do unpaid overtime. If it’s a salaried position, variation from usual hours is normal.
Scarred_fish@reddit
If the public sector didn't work unpaid overtime, the country would grind to a halt in days.
Is it right? Of course not, but people need services and there is no money to pay us. It's not like the private sector where you can just charge the customer more.
Teawillfixit@reddit
Incredibly unusual if hourly paid. If salaried it really depends on the job culture, expectations and your contract.
I do at certain points in the year, as do others in my office but we also slack off at other times, so in my head it work out.
VerbingNoun413@reddit
Are you salaried or paid hourly? Do the additional hours bring you below minimum wage?
Bobzgray@reddit
What does your employment contract say in terms of overtime? It’s only fair to expect overtime pay or time off in lieu for work outside of your contractual hours, but depends on contract terms.
ACAS is always a good source on employment rights.
nomadic_weeb@reddit
You need to check what your contract says mate, if it's in your contract that you may be required to work out of hours then there's not much you can do about that
Aromatic_Pudding_234@reddit
What does your contract say?
Kittykittycatcat1000@reddit
It depends!
In my work place I’ll do overtime where necessary and then take time off in lieu later.
My fiancé regularly woks 70hr plus weeks but is well compensated. He’s even done 100hr weeks occasionally and couldn’t do the job in a standard 40hr contract.
If i was on minimum wage or close to it then workout overtime can be illegal if it takes your hourly wage below minimum.
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