(der8auer EN) Nvidias embarrassing Statement

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One-End1795@reddit

Unfortunately, Nvidia really doesn't care about any of these complaints or who is making the complaints. They are high above it all in their ivory AI tower. Gaming GPUs are becoming an infinitesimal part of their revenue.

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fashric@reddit

If they didn't care, they would pull out of the sector completely. Profit is still profit.

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ConsistencyWelder@reddit

They're putting the foot in the door, trying to keep it open because they know that all fads come and go. AI is overhyped right now, but that market can crash as every other market can. Just like the Crypto craze that suddenly crashed and the WFH boom ended too, so will the AI market. We don't know when or how, but it's pretty dumb to think it never will.

Nvidia is doing the bare minimum to make people think they still care about the gaming market. But the truth keeps leaking out.

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Elon__Kums@reddit

If they crack AGI the boom literally will never end, it won't be possible to physically meet demand.

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terraphantm@reddit

That story has been told many times over even in my short lifetime so far. The bubble always pops eventually.

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Elon__Kums@reddit

Previous results are not a good predictor of future events.

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terraphantm@reddit

Tends to be a better predictor than most things

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shroudedwolf51@reddit

I mean, sure...but they care about the profit ratio as well. They know the cards will sell regardless, as most people will buy whatever the latest NVidia card just because it has "NVidia" written on the box. So, if the inventory sits around for a while, who cares. They maintain the higher margins, allocate more supply to the regurgitative "AI" sector, and they've already made their profit anyway.

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aminorityofone@reddit

From Nvidias perspective: "What, you gonna do, buy AMD or Intel?"

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Teftell@reddit

Well, yes

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Z3r0sama2017@reddit

Yep. When AMD release a gpu that gives me a nice +30% uplift in my 4090, I will give it serious consideration.

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nclakelandmusic@reddit

I mean right now is there really even a reason to ditch the 4090?

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sharkyzarous@reddit

you might need to wait for 2030+ :) (hopefully not, come on amd!)

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nclakelandmusic@reddit

AMD is already in the process of taking care of the people with lower tier cards via the 9070 and 9070 XT. With all the extra revenue they are bringing is, who is to say they won't tackle the big dogs in the next release?

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steve09089@reddit

Yes, actually, given that both have the technologies I want now.

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Hombremaniac@reddit

Funny how Nvidia is trying so hard to boost AMD sales.

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1-800-KETAMINE@reddit

It's a pretty absurd situation, given gaming was their largest revenue source in 2021 (before then too of course, gaming built Nvidia). Now gaming is just about exactly the same dollar amount of revenue but is 6 or 7% of whatever of the total. It's gonna be fascinating to see where Nvidia is at in 5 years.

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Z3r0sama2017@reddit

I don't think Nvidia will take their eye off the ball in the gaming market like Intel did with AMD. AMD has worked some magic with far less resources and just handing them the entire gaming market is a lot of R&D money for them to cook with.

Whether that means they don't make gaming cards and just down bin hard all the chips that failed to make the cut for AI money printing or don't use the latest cutting edge node🤷‍♂️

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Zednot123@reddit

They are high above it all in their ivory AI tower.

The EU might be slow, but when it smells blod in the water it can become rather viscous.

Nvidia better hope the EU doesn't one day decide that they have been blatantly ignoring consumer health and safety.

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996forever@reddit

What are they gonna do? Ban nvidia? Not even China could do that. No nvidia hardware = giving up on the AI arms race. Europe has nothing of their own. Not designing. Not manufacturing. Nothing.

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Zednot123@reddit

Not designing. Not manufacturing. Nothing.

You mean except ASML and much of the optical supply chain for EUV? You mean that "nothing"?

Not a single modern Nvidia chip can be made without EU made equipment. If a straight up heated trade war develops between the EU and US. And single companies starts getting singled out to set examples and create leverage. The EU holds plenty of cards.

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Nuck_Chorris_Stache@reddit

Nvidia doesn't manufacture the chips. TSMC does. So, what would the EU do here? Ban TSMC from using ASML equipment to spite Nvidia?

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Strazdas1@reddit

which is irrelevant to the discussion of chip achitecture houses.

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Aleblanco1987@reddit

they know people will forget everything in a month when supply settles

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Aggrokid@reddit

A month is very optimistic

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einmaldrin_alleshin@reddit

I've been following 5070 ti price and availability here in Germany. There are multiple models available at 110% MSRP, tending down. So at this point, they're apparently shipping more than people are buying at that price.

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Hombremaniac@reddit

But their sorts of a paper launch is not the only problem with 50X0 serie.

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einmaldrin_alleshin@reddit

It may be boring and Nvidia marketing is dishonest as usual, but at the end of the day, price and availability are the things most people care about.

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Strazdas1@reddit

Yes. Supply already available for every product in the lineup.

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wickedplayer494@reddit

Gaming GPUs are becoming (or are already) an infinitesimal part of their revenue therefore they do not care.

As is the old Quadro/NVRTX/new RTX PRO professional workstation segment, which didn't even get a single second of mention at GTC. They're now fighting for the same scraps as the "GAMING!!!" people, except at a higher price tag, and literally PNY as their only AIB.

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justjanne@reddit

I thought Asus was still making A6000s?

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Gippy_@reddit

I found it ironically hilarious that der8auer used AI to dub the video. Normally I'm a subtitles guy, but Nvidia of all companies deserves to have AI thrown back at their faces.

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Preisschild@reddit

They will once consumers find out that current AI models (doesnt matter how many GPUs you throw at the model, they need a major design breakthrough) only have a few niche use cases.

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COMPUTER1313@reddit

That's a future fiscal quarter's problem to worry about.

Deploys golden parachute before everything falls apart

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Z3r0sama2017@reddit

I dunno. If Jensen was just some rando CEO, I could see that being true, but he's not. He was one of the co-founders and it always seemed like nvidia was his baby.

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pmjm@reddit

Lol "mouth flaps" is my new favorite term.

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sonsofevil@reddit

„Landing process started! Passengers, open the mouth flaps…!“

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cp5184@reddit

It was weird the nvidia guy said "I haven't bough a GPU in decades", and then immediately (maybe because of the editing) was talking about how people asked him to get them cards and he said he couldn't get them cards, first, he said because it would have to be a partner card, and then he admitted that there are founders editions and he just kind of contradicted himself in multiple ways.

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ThaRippa@reddit

It’s easy. He’s not a gamer. He will probably get handmedown GPUs from last gen every other year. A 3080 might still serve him fine.

That makes both of his statements true, but it shows that he has no idea what we’re talking about.

Imho, if I was in charge of the gaming sector at NVIDIA I’d want my staff to have the current generation of cards at home. That would make for great field testing and long-term open-loop feedback.

But clearly, not even the folks at NVIDIA themselves have cards to play with. Because this was only a tiny step above being a paper launch.

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cp5184@reddit

He said that he was at an advantage because he didn't have to order a card himself for many years and der8auer said that it was because he had the advantage of being an nvidia employee and didn't have to order a card in the retail market. I interpret that to mean that he can simply get what he wants probably for free being a rather senior employee, or, if he's treated as rank and file, he can buy from the company store.

There weren't always founders editions. But presumably nvidia employees could buy cards at a discount through nvidia even when there weren't founders editions.

He says his friends tell him he has access to cards maybe even at a discount.

First is says that all cards go through the partners, which is false.

Then he says if he buys a card for himself he has to buy it normally in the store, which is either him agreeing that availability is low because of lack of founders editions being sold at the nvidia company store, or he's again lying saying that it's impossible for nvidia employees to buy through the company. I believe I've read employees can buy through the company at discounts when stock is available.

This is all wrapped in the larger lie of it being a successful launch and the lie that it's not a paper launch.

Then he says that nvidia doesn't have an employee program. Possible lie, I don't know but I've heard there is.

Then he says we don't manufacturer the cards which is a lie because nvidia makes the founders editions. Though he does cop to that lie.

der8auer shows a website talking about nvidia employees upset about the lack of stock at the employee internal storefront, and that this is the first time that it's been a problem for nvidia employees.

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myst01@reddit

my staff to have the current generation of cards at home... great field testing

You'd have to pay the staff overtime, and the video cards would still be company assets unless both social and income tax (along with VAT) are paid for (effectively salary). Germany (and virtually all the EU) has rather strict labor laws.

That's mostly a gamer wishful thinking.

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ThaRippa@reddit

I call bullshit. BMW workers get early and cheap access to BMWs. Not as gifts mind you, it’s a car after all. But they can lease new cars for ultra low rates or rent them for vacations for practically free. Their feedback is encouraged but obviously not paid.

Many restaurants let staff eat a meal per shift, and feedback from that is vital to the kitchen.

Microsoft gives employees licenses for M365 and other MS products. They don’t pay for overtime when people use it at home. But they encourage feedback.

Lastly, even if german labor law was a concern here that doesn’t explain why other NVIDIA employees around the world have the same issue. What explains it is that NVIDIA don’t actually want to make good gaming cards right now.

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myst01@reddit

But they can lease new cars for ultra low rates or rent them for vacations for practically free.

I don't know much but if it is any form leasing - it's still corporate property. It's a benefit for picking to work there (I guess advertised). Corp cars have been scrutinized as they used to be an easy way to avoid VAT, some EU states allow only partial VAT exemption. It's possible GPU leasing to be organized, so it'd not be considered salary. This would involve lawyers/accountants and lots of paperwork.

Many restaurants let staff eat a meal per shift, and feedback from that is vital to the kitchen.

Food and beverages tend to be exceptions in general (up to certain amounts). E.g. having fruit/milk/coffee/etc. in the kitchen is usually a corp. expense.

Microsoft gives employees licenses for M365 and other MS products.

They are effectively corporate licenses on corporate laptops (at least some of my acquaintances that work at Microsoft local branch; also provide paid business lunch, speaking of food). Speaking of home installs - if Microsoft asks anyone to use 'teams' home in any polite manner, I'd consider the request just cruel.

As for feedback - nvidia already has installed monitoring and telemetry, along with crash reports. Dog fooding tends not to be popular amongst the IT - along with common falsehoods of developers playing their own games once they get back home.

other NVIDIA employees around the world have the same issue

The initial remark did pertain to Germany. Such policy likely need to be decided on HQ level, then each state would have to check locally how it'd be implemented. Likely no one considered worth the effort (see dog food)

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ThaRippa@reddit

You‘re missing the point, perhaps because you’re used to thinking in these legalities.

The point is: when you make something, anything, it is in your best interest that your employees use your product.

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myst01@reddit

I did mention "dog food" (using your own product/tools) twice along with being not popular in reality.

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ThaRippa@reddit

Never heard that term. Thanks.

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Acceptable_Bus_9649@reddit

No, he doesnt. Watch the full talk. He said that he has not bought a video card in years. And that he cant help his friends to get a (partner) card because they dont have access to them and that they cant just buy a founders edition as a "private" person.

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TigermanUK@reddit

That AI translate has come up against Directive 4.

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zeroznet@reddit

You're fired.

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AnxiousJedi@reddit

Too bad it doesn't matter. Gamers are third class citizens. Nvidia are too busy working on A.I. servers to give a fuck.

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lorddumpy@reddit

Gangweed

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mapletune@reddit

oof, at the end of this video derbauer says he's scheduled to meet nvidia people next week, probably the same people he's criticizing now, and that it may be super awkward D:

respect to him for releasing information he believes in, in a timely manner, even if it might cause him some troubles down the road.

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Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit

Super awkward or not, criticism should always be possible. Preferably face-to-face.

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boringestnickname@reddit

Didn't GN have a breakdown of cooling blocks, PCB and all kinds of stuff with a Nvidia engineer just a couple of years back?

Not seeing a lot of that these days.

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KirikoFeetPics@reddit

GN did a 5090 FE teardown with an Nvidia engineer in january

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boringestnickname@reddit

OK, nevermind, I was wrong, then (given it's a similar type of teardown.)

Amazing how that can coexist with what the higher ups are doing. The disconnect is complete.

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Pimpmuckl@reddit

That is very, very common, especially in huge companies like Nvidia.

You have some amazingly passionate blokes on the ground doing awesome work and then there's the army of managers, executives and what have you that have never understood how their own product works and make decisions that folks, that actually make these products, just can't wrap their heads around.

Like it's completely mind blowing how Nvidia, on one hand, has such worldclass engineers when it comes to understanding the chip's heat- and power characteristics, that they can design a 2 slot cooler that can deal with 600 fucking watts. But then you also have the simply subpar power connector. Where anyone that ever looked at a wire funny could tell you that this thing sucks.

Doesn't seem too believable to me.

When GN did the AMD tour and talked to the oc guys that invented something about Ryzen (was it the v-cache maybe? I don't remember what it was now) it was so cool to see them explain how they work and how they were having these great ideas and got the go ahead above to just try some random shit out if they felt like it.

The engineers in those labs truly do amazing work.

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zacker150@reddit

Like it's completely mind blowing how Nvidia, on one hand, has such worldclass engineers when it comes to understanding the chip's heat- and power characteristics, that they can design a 2 slot cooler that can deal with 600 fucking watts. But then you also have the simply subpar power connector. Where anyone that ever looked at a wire funny could tell you that this thing sucks.

What people on reddit don't realize is that the amazing cooler and the power connector is fundumentally linked, as the cooler requires a tiny PCB.

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sSTtssSTts@reddit

Adding 4x 8pin PCIe connectors wouldn't require a huge change in the PCB size for desktop markets.

Its servers where they truly care about every sq mm of volume.

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Pimpmuckl@reddit

Tiny PCB, yes. I'm not saying it would be super easy to slap 4x 8Pins on. I still think it's possible, but whatever.

Spending another cm² more on monitoring circuits to level things out on the GPU-side requesting more or less power per cable?

That should have basically zero impact on performance and should be well within budget of a 2000 (!) dollar card.

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shroudedwolf51@reddit

They kinda do that occasionally. But they shunted a lot of their most important content off onto a secondary channel because they seem insistent on becoming more like LTT...for some reason.

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braiam@reddit

There's not a whole lot of cool stuff that companies are willing to share, period. It's not that there's bad blood, necessarily, is just that they don't see a point in it, and that was the normal. Nvidia sharing stuff was a anomaly.

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COMPUTER1313@reddit

It's not that there's bad blood, necessarily, is just that they don't see a point in it, and that was the normal

Reminds me of Sony refusing to discuss even a long obsolete product.

Shank Mods found possibly the last known working PVM-4300, the world's largest CRT TV (43 inches, weighing 440lb and another 170lb for the supporting stand): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZxOuc9Qwk

He arranged for an interview with a senior Sony engineer who previously designed the TV, until Sony corporate stated no employees are allowed to discuss Sony in personal interviews.

Shank Mods tried for months through every public avenue and connections to get an interview through Sony corporate, but Sony never even gave him a "no".

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HotRoderX@reddit

that was such a interesting video and that tv was so cool.

Honestly CRT's still blow any LED/OLED/Etc tech out of the water for picture quality/clarity.

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zopiac@reddit

Motion clarity I'll grant (for now) but really? Unless you had some god-tube that didn't bloom and was also off appreciable resolution, that's a monumental stretch. Their positive qualities are great even today, but clarity has rarely been one of them...

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potato_panda-@reddit

They just had an interview with the engineer in charge of the 5090 FE design. So I'd say their access isn't that restricted.

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COMPUTER1313@reddit

What's Nvidia going to do anyways? Blacklist him for being blunt?

I'd be curious to see how Steve, Linus and other major tech folks react to that.

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shroudedwolf51@reddit

It's be good to have Linus do that since a lot of people that don't care about tech listen to him. But I wish that wasn't the case, since he's such a hack.

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munchkinatlaw@reddit

First time?

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JesusTalksToMuch@reddit

Locked.

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Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit

Its not gonna be awkward if you got professional people that understand what each others job is.

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Homerlncognito@reddit

He's German, brutal straightforwardness is very valued in their culture

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Fromarine@reddit

Bro they're not robots. He said it'll be awkward himself for a reason

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Hakairoku@reddit

Not to mention for him to go that far, they HAD to open the door,

and let's be real here, the Lars guy might've been German, but the guy's infected by Western capitalism, dude talks like marketing now.

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VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit

Wow such infection.

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DehydratedButTired@reddit

German honestly is just German honesty.

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sonsofevil@reddit

And Bratwurst honestly is just Bratwurst honestly

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Maaalk@reddit

oof, at the end of this video derbauer says he's scheduled to meet nvidia people next week, probably the same people he's criticizing now, and that it may be super awkward D:

I am looking forward to it! The statements given by NVIDIA in the interview / podcast were disappointing. Hoping a more critical approach by Roman will bring some more objective statements to light.

respect to him for releasing information he believes in, in a timely manner, even if it might cause him some troubles down the road.

Troubles in which direction? Could you elaborate?

I believe more exposure to his channel and company are what drives his own revenue and interests (his interest in technology & engineering focus in general). Can't really see any 'troubles down the road'. Something like a review embargo?

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SJGucky@reddit

As the CEO of Thermal Grizzly he does have some influence (although not that much) in that space.

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Start-Plenty@reddit

"The launch went very well....." ROFL in what universe does that mofo lives

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mpt11@reddit

I mean it did in the sense that they sold all the cards they made available.

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Start-Plenty@reddit

Yeah well, anybody could market a product and have a successful launch then...

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mpt11@reddit

Their primary goal is to sell the product, which they did.

Everything that's come to light after is another issue 🤣

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COMPUTER1313@reddit

Everything that's come to light

12V High Failure Rate connector finally catches on fire and burns someone's house down because the owner was away for the day while the PC was running

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mpt11@reddit

Wasn't aware of that, that's really shit someone lost their home. As an aside if it can be proven that it was the connector that caused the fire that's a great legal standpoint.

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COMPUTER1313@reddit

I should have clarified that it was a hypothetical example. But a very real threat because of how frequently the cables and connectors are running hot (as noted in the second video I linked).

I suspect the reason we haven't seen any actual fires yet is because the RTX 5000s are such in short supply.

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mpt11@reddit

Well that's a relief anyway 🤣.

Yeah they seemed to have doubled down on the shitty connectors for some reason. I mean I know they were heavily involved in the development but they're clearly not fit for purpose, I can't see any engineer approving that sort of design without a gun to their head (metaphorically)

Of course admitting it now will make them look bad

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COMPUTER1313@reddit

About a week ago, some retailer was taking people's money and not delivering the GPUs, claiming "oh there's a supply shortage because Nvidia and their partners are recalling their GPUs due to safety issues".

Oh boy Nvidia and MSI were pissed. MSI in particular put out a public statement that any retailers who defame their brand would face legal actions.

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mpt11@reddit

I mean it sounds like a recall would be a good idea

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Start-Plenty@reddit

Yeah, cos not alienating loyal customers comes at lower priority... but hey I have to thank them, I'm back at team red after idk how many years, saved $2k in the process, and realized I can perfectly live without having top spec hw

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Zenith251@reddit

See, that's not how MBA's and investors think. It's "what have you done for me, customer?" It's "what can you do for me today?"

I live in San Jose, and have chatted with Nvidia employees in the past 4 years. "Gamers got Nvidia here" is responded with "no, data center got us here. We wouldn't be a two trillion dollar company with just gamers."

I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea. The past doesn't matter, only the quarterly numbers.

I fucking hate capitalism.

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Start-Plenty@reddit

If you've been chatting with employees in the past 4 years, in 2021 certainly datacenter business wasn't nVidias' revenue main contributor.

In fact it was around Q1 2023 when it went on par with gaming, and consolidated in Q2 as the main source of revenue.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa7960c03-1585-4965-a1fd-ebfcea05ccd3_863x623.png

https://graphics.reuters.com/NVIDIA-RESULTS/lbpggxqmgpq/chart_eikon.jpg

And yes, from that point onwards they are making a shit ton of money from the AI craze.

Nvidia is a +3 decade corporation, let me LOL entertaining the thought that it didn't got where it is today not being a gaming focused business.

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Zenith251@reddit

I was paraphrasing, and frankly, Covid Time still fucks with my brain. The conversations I've been referencing were in 2024.

Nvidia is a +3 decade corporation, let me LOL entertaining the thought that it didn't got where it is today not being a gaming focused business.

That's what I'm saying. The mindset isn't the history of the revenue, it's revenue this quarter and maybe last quarter. That's the fucked up mindset I'm seeing.

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Mean-Professiontruth@reddit

You just made up an imaginary story

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mpt11@reddit

Their priority has shifted to data centres and ai. Although gaming is not an insignificant source of income it is compared to what ai and data pays them.

Although if they keep cocking up like they are with consumer cards on the data centres it might all change.

Consumer loyalty is a thing of the past, just buy what is right for you as the companies don't care anymore

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inyue@reddit

The only alienated people are those insane people that cheers for a chip maker "team".

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Start-Plenty@reddit

You think? I did say 'loyal customer', should had better used 'top end hw customers' which I am. Incidentally AMD has not been able to compete on the top end segment with nVidia for years.

So yeah, I feel alienated, and don't care about hardware makers, I'd go with the best at any given time.

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RealOxygen@reddit

It went well for Nvidia the company and shareholders, it went absolutely terribly for consumers and anybody within Nvidia with a moral compass and/or passion for making a genuinely good product.

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mpt11@reddit

Absolutely the consumers were shafted.

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Jordan_Jackson@reddit

He lives in a universe where if he says anything that Nvidia doesn't approve of, he is out of a job. Yeah, he might be able to get hired on by someone else but why go through the trouble of being unemployed for a while?

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GreenFigsAndJam@reddit

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

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ModernRonin@reddit

- Upton Sinclair

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Zenith251@reddit

The universe of gas light. If 1984 was a marketing manual.

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lurker-157835@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

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DaBombDiggidy@reddit

Lives in the "I have a lot of Nvidia stock" universe

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COMPUTER1313@reddit

In terms of starving the consumer market to go all-in on AI and datacenter? Yes.

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Start-Plenty@reddit

aaaaah yes, I see now how he's right

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NDCyber@reddit

It was already hard for me to recommend Nvidia. But at this point besides cuda, it is for me just not mortally ok, for me, to recommend such an untrustworthy product from a company that just lies at every possible situation

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DiggingNoMore@reddit

Is there a more powerful card available? I spent $999 on my RTX 5080. What alternative card could I get, within that budget, that's more powerful?

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NDCyber@reddit

I ask you to read my comment again. Yes, Nvidia has at the moment the most powerful cards. But is it worth the signal we are sending? Is it worth the price (not money) we are paying? And is it worth supporting?

If you went with a RX 9070 XT you will have the same fun in games, while also showing nvidia that their shitty actions have consequences. I honestly rather have the stability and trustworthiness than the more performance of the 5080.

There are still times when Nvidia is the only option, that is why I said besides cuda. But for gaming it isn't really needed. Yes I understand the want behind it. I have a RX 7900 XTX myself as well, but if AMD had done the same things Nvidia did but with that Gen I wouldn't have bought it

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DiggingNoMore@reddit

I just buy the best hardware that is within my budget. There are no further considerations.

If AMD wants me to buy their card, they should've made a card that was better than the 5080 and costs equal or less.

The goal isn't "to have the same fun playing games" it's to have better hardware than other people. Did I buy 96GB of RAM and 20TB of storage because I need it? No, it's to have more than the other person.

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NDCyber@reddit

So you rather maybe have a burning connector, driver issues, the people lying to you, maybe missing hardware than a bit less performance?

Do I understand that right

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DiggingNoMore@reddit

I'll let you know if I ever have a burning connector, a driver issue, or missing hardware. And nobody spoke to me at all, so they couldn't've lied to me.

Some people had a burning connector. Some people had missing hardware. Those people aren't me, so I don't care.

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NDCyber@reddit

"And nobody spoke to me at all" what do you call marketing then?

"And nobody spoke to me at all" Is always a funny argument for me. You can have an HP laptop without broken hinges. That doesn't remove the danger or the missing quality it comes with. When you buy that stuff, you basically gamble. Even if it is a lower chance. But even Nvidia said in the video of der8auer that it is a lot.

"Some people had a burning connector. Some people had missing hardware. Those people aren't me, so I don't care." So you were lucky and that is why you are fine with actions people took? Wow, that is one way to see the world. Blissful ignorance, I guess

And good to know that you didn't go with the best hardware. You just went with the most performance you can get. Ignoring how good it actually is. Please say what you mean, at least. Because like I said, for it to be the best it would need good quality. It doesn't

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DiggingNoMore@reddit

what do you call marketing then?

I don't call it anything. It's not part of my life. I've never seen an advertisement for an RTX 5080.

When you buy that stuff, you basically gamble.

Fine by me. I had my 5080 before anybody had problems with melting connectors and before anybody discovered missing RPOs. Literally wasn't a factor in my purchase. But, since those problems happen to almost nobody, it's a gamble I'm willing to take. If there's a problem, that's what the manufacturer warranty is for. Not really a gamble in my eyes.

Wow, that is one way to see the world

You're the one that literally asked people for their justifications. Not my fault you don't like the answers. Don't ask questions if you're just going to get huffy when someone replies.

You just went with the most performance you can get.

Which makes it the best.

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NDCyber@reddit

You're the one that literally asked people for their justifications. Not my fault you don't like the answers. Don't ask questions if you're just going to get huffy when someone replies.

First to this. I did not ask for justification of anyone that bought them. I was specifically going after recommendation. While yes, I also think it is a problem to buy their stuff, you do that with the knowledge of the problem. I did not talk about anyone justifying their own purchase till you said: "Is there a more powerful card available? I spent $999 on my RTX 5080. What alternative card could I get, within that budget, that's more powerful?". After that, I said the problems that are caused by buying Nvidia, and the problem I have with your wording.

What you said there did not go into detail to any of the questions I asked originally. Don't act like you answered any of them, because you didn't. You talked about something completely different, that has its own points and its own problems. And I can say it like this. While for gaming I would say don't go with Nvidia, I know there are reason to go with Nvidia, like cuda, but for gaming you don't need that. Then you say, but you wanted to, which is also valid, but then you need to ask if it is worth the price it comes at. After that, we already had the conversation

Please go back to my comments and for once read what I say.

If there's a problem, that's what the manufacturer warranty is for. Not really a gamble in my eyes.

Till the manufacture says it is a "you problem"?

https://youtu.be/oB75fEt7tH0?si=TvHC5cRrpQdFDvCo

Which makes it the best.

So build quality doesn't matter? How long something lasts doesn't matter? How much potential problems something has doesn't matter? That would mean you can go with the most untrustworthy SSD, as long as it is fast, because it is the best. Who cares that it won't last a year, right? (not saying Nvidia GPUs don't last a year, just a comparison)

I don't call it anything. It's not part of my life. I've never seen an advertisement for an RTX 5080.

Marketing is part of the communication between company and consumer. Not calling it communication or lying to the consumer would be a blatant lie. Even if you might not have listened doesn't change the fact, that they lied in marketing,

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Hakairoku@reddit

This thread displays great examples of Nvidia brainrot.

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DiggingNoMore@reddit

I was specifically going after recommendation.

Yes, and I thought it was pretty obvious that if I would buy one, I would recommend one. To do otherwise would be hypocritical. For the same reason I bought one is why I would recommend one. It's the best.

So build quality doesn't matter? How long something lasts doesn't matter?

Everything has the same build quality and last the same amount of time - forever. I've been building computers since Windows 95 and have never had a single piece of hardware break on me. Ever.

go with the most untrustworthy SSD, as long as it is fast, because it is the best.

SSD speed? That's not a thing. The only they have is size. Every 4TB SSD is better than every 2TB SSD.

Marketing is part of the communication between company and consumer.

No, it's the attempted communication between company and consumer. If they failed to communicate then, by definition, their marketing is not communication.

I don't know what lie happened during marketing but I specifically wasn't lied to because I wasn't marketed to.

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NDCyber@reddit

Yes, and I thought it was pretty obvious that if I would buy one, I would recommend one

Then all the points where you were talking specifically about what you heard what and that affected you are no longer valid. Because it is no longer just about you. It is about the people you recommend to. And do you say the problems Nvidia goes through at the moment while recommending them? Because if you recommend them it is in my opinion the only right action

It's the best.

I will say it again. For it to be the best, it would need to be trustworthy. And it isn't

SSD speed? That's not a thing. The only they have is size. Every 4TB SSD is better than every 2TB SSD.

My sincerest apologies, Your Highness. I regret having employed informal language in our conversation. I assure you that such a lapse will not occur again. As befits your esteemed position, I shall maintain a respectful tone, eschewing casual speech. I vow not to err in this manner again.

And I personally wouldn't gamble with my data nor money and go with a cheap SSD, even if it gives me more capacity. I rather have a good 2TB SSD, then a cheaply made SSD with 4TB, that won't last long. Capacity isn't everything. Also, you might want to look into MB/s if you think there is no Speed for SSDs

No, it's the attempted communication between company and consumer. If they failed to communicate then, by definition, their marketing is not communication.

They said the 5070 is faster than the 4090. They didn't talk about the 5080 having problems with ROPs. They say it is user error when a connector melts. The moment you recommend things that will be important, because the people might look up things and watch what Nvidia said. Then they will be lied to. And yes this includes you, because they did not clarify about the 5080 having the problem with the missing ROPs, even if it didn't end up causing you problems

If we continue accepting their action, it will no longer be a question of if you will run into a problem, but when you will run into a problem. Because the problems will continue and get more and more till you run into a guaranteed

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DiggingNoMore@reddit

Because it is no longer just about you. It is about the people you recommend to.

I assume those people are exactly the same as me.

For it to be the best, it would need to be trustworthy.

I'll need you to prove the objective definition of "best".

And I personally wouldn't gamble with my data nor money and go with a cheap SSD, even if it gives me more capacity.

Do whatever you want. I'll still recommend every 4TB SSD over every 2TB SSD because that's what I would buy.

The moment you recommend things that will be important, because the people might look up things and watch what Nvidia said. Then they will be lied to.

I don't follow how that's my problem. You asked how we can morally justify recommending the hardware. I recommend it because I would buy it. If you have a problem, that's your problem. I will always recommend the same thing I buy and morally justify it because recommending something that I wouldn't buy would be hypocritical.

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ftt28@reddit

lol but there are absolutely easily accessible options for more than 96gb ram and 5080 available to consumers, so what's your point with this weak minded perspective?

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DiggingNoMore@reddit

Great. And does my sibling, coworker, friend, or literally anybody who I would ever interact with have that?

No? Then for all intents and purposes, I have the best computer. And then I brag about it until someone beats me. Then I wait until I have the worst computer. Then I brag about that.

Available hardware makes no difference, only the hardware actually in possession.

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CrzyJek@reddit

Those who buy from companies and takes their morality into consideration...are a small minority unfortunately.

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Yebi@reddit

Yeah, but that's because usually the morality problem is "they're fucking over workers somewhere very far away", this time it's "they're fucking over you"

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reddit_user42252@reddit

I care if product is good. If you want to buy from a company with "good morals" lol good luck with that tbh.

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NDCyber@reddit

Yeah, I know. But that is also why I think it is even more important, that the people who know do that

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CarbonatedPancakes@reddit

At this point I’m not sure there’s anything that would stop people from buying NVIDIA. Gotta sign rights to your soul and firstborn over to Jensen Huang on top of paying $5k? No problem, totally worth it, all that matters is making game numbers and pretend intelligence numbers go higher.

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NDCyber@reddit

Yeah, sometimes same. I think in general there are a lot of people that just go with what they know, even if it is horrible, like Nvidia at the moment. But what I find worse about it, is that the people that should know better seem to be fine recommending Nvidia, even if they know what Nvidia does

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DetachedRedditor@reddit

I think you mean morally ok. Unless you spontaneously die when obtaining an nvidia card, which would be something.

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DehydratedButTired@reddit

Talk about a risk of fire.

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NDCyber@reddit

ehhh yes, I meant morally. I should have given myself a bit more time after waking up to write that xD

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Itchy_Inflation5105@reddit

It's surprising how little official rep knows

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mapletune@reddit

companies become corporate bullshit when they become big. it's unavoidable in the current society =(

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Sofaboy90@reddit

bro nvidia was always a shit company.

gladly look up their history. its just that their main business used to be gaming, now gaming is no longer any important for them, especially with the virtual monopoly position they have because people arent buying AMD in meaningful quantities anyway.

so we can all agree on them doing a seriously bad job right now but they will get away with it due to their market position. if people want this to change then the only thing you can do is to vote with your wallet. and if you buy nvidia anyway, well you cant complain too much, can you?

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Hakairoku@reddit

EVGA was one of the very first partners that believed in them through thick and thin, and look at how Jensen treated EVGA.

What fucks me up about this is that EVGA's still loyal despite their departure since one of the reasons why they're not taking on AMD or Intel is because it'd be seen as a betrayal TOWARDS Nvidia.

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Strazdas1@reddit

Jensen treated EVGA as a partner and not as a dependant.

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mapletune@reddit

why are you assuming i buy nvidia? i get they own 90%+ of the gaming gpu market, has higher performant gpus, more advanced software features, and CUDA. but no, i haven't bought nvidia since GTX 550 Ti.

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Jaded_Celery_451@reddit

This particular issue is a result of the gaming market going from their bread and butter, to a secondary business during the GPU mining era, to a strictly optional side hustle now in the AI era.

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Thelango99@reddit

So what happens if the AI market does?

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cadaada@reddit

Even in b.c egypt that would be the case i do not doubt it

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reddit_equals_censor@reddit

that's not how it went for nvidia.

they were pieces of shit right from the start.

here is a very tight 1 hour documentary about nvidia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0L3OTZ13Os

it shows the references in the video about stuff talked about.

cheating, blaming others for their frick ups, scamming basically right from the start.

it isn't new to nvidia at all.

it is worth keeping in mind, that amd is also an evil billion dollar company, but amd and in the olden days ati never were as evil and through that also as anti consumer as nvidia.

so nvidia is in this industry at least a special level up in their evil and right from the start!

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jezevec93@reddit

10 years ago btw

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based_and_upvoted@reddit

Nvidia has always been a horrible company for consumers but at least they invest a lot of money on research, which is cool. Apple just hoards the money and Intel let themselves fall off hard. AMD also does a lot of research and they can't afford to be complete assholes yet but they don't have much money to throw at problems yet

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pandaSmore@reddit

embarrassing

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Snobby_Grifter@reddit

More people need to stand up to nvidia. They've become a tech space diva/bully with so few people willing to hold them accountable.

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ConsistencyWelder@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ

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One-End1795@reddit

Der8auer flubs on his statements about Moore's Law at 9:30 in the video. Moore's Law actually states transistor density doubles every two years, not three. IIRC, it also does not state that price doubles every four years. I have no idea where that one came from, unless he is misunderstanding Rock's Law, which is often incorrectly called "moore's second law." Rocks Law has been disproven.

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Bloodcore911@reddit

When did he say "every three years"? At 9:35, he says every two years.

Also, Derbauer didn't say he believes in Rocks law/Moores second law.. he only mentions it because the nvidia employee is butchering it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_second_law

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One-End1795@reddit

It certainly sounds like he says every three years, and after your comment, I relistened closely for a mistake in my hearing, perhaps due to his accent. If you listen to where he says "two" later on at 9:45, it is clear to me, still, that he says "three" at 9:35.

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Acceptable_Bus_9649@reddit

No, the nVidia was correct. 4x increase in transistors in four years is basically 1/2 of cost every two years.

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noiserr@reddit

lol, did that Nvidia guy make a single factual statement?

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Deshke@reddit

Nvidia PR is trying downplaying the issues of the 5000 series but Nvidia is moving away from consumer GPUs, if you look at the revenue from the past quarters and at GTC for the next 3 years of planned release, there are no "big" consumer chips on there.

Sure gaming is a huge market, but compared to the rest it's becoming a rounding error.

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kuddlesworth9419@reddit

Nvidia is full of so much shit.

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Rocketman7@reddit

Typical nvidia response. It’s never their fault

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Felatio-DelToro@reddit

From the source of the interview (paraphrasing):
The original interview was planed as a deep dive on new technical features. When the launch problems of this generation became apparent they had to pivot and include em in this talk.

So the interview partner (Lars Weinand) is probably not a PR person which is why his attempts at gaslighting, lying and deflecting blame are so inept. Bit insulting really.

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Hakairoku@reddit

So the interview partner (Lars Weinand) is probably not a PR person which is why his attempts at gaslighting, lying and deflecting blame are so inept. Bit insulting really.

Yeah, which was why I thought why the hell is this guy talking like an American capitalist. Props to derbauer though, man sounded as passionate as any German trying to defend the existence of Truck Simulator games.

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Sofaboy90@reddit

im surprised how critical the interview was. ofc it couldve been even more critical but for the non germans, gamestar isnt exactly a hardware focussed website. think of their hardware reviews a bit like LTT or IGN, theyre rather basic and hardware reviews arent their main thing, its game reviews. thats why you never see their reviews quoted here, if german sides are posted here, its mostly der8auer, computerbase and occasionally hardwareluxx and igor. i mean theres a reason an nvidia spokesperson appears on the supposed pr friendly gamestar and not on a computerbase podcast who would be much more critical and do know their stuff really well.

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slither378962@reddit

I'm amazed nvidia even allowed such an interview to happen. But maybe they're just as deluded as when they said they fixed 12VHPWR because they changed pin lengths.

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theholylancer@reddit

on pre-order

what he means is that you can get one by buying an overly expensive prebuild with a 5090, those SIs can pre-order them and get them ahead of the masses, but you will be dropping at least 5k if not 6k+ to get one

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