What if you've prepared for 6 months and 99% of the others didn't?
Posted by BliepBloepBlurp@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 170 comments
So I live in an urban area in the Netherlands. I was wondering what would happen in the scenario where you'd need 6 months providing for yourself? And is it even useful to prepare for such a long time when almost everyone around you didn't?
In this scenario I would stay at home. It's very unlikely it would be safer to get away in this scenario (no risk of flooding for example).
FancyAssociation7314@reddit
Be prepared to defend what you have, and your first line of defense should be blending in. So if the people around you are hungry and dirty, you should look/act the same when you're outside, and have a plan to protect your home/stash. Stay as low-profile/"grey man" as possible.
Live_Huckleberry2507@reddit
The grey man is the rule I live by. No one comes looking for the one they think has nothing.
Dmau27@reddit
I believe having a false stash is the key here. Once things go to hell you need to bury a majority of your food and keep only one week's worth available. Same with water, meds and other provisions. Even ammo and some firearms. If you're outgunned you give them a whole 5% of your shit and a few guns and 300-40p rounds of ammo. They think they scored and you'll be fine. Blending in is good too, hadn't thought about it.
I think it's important that you still participate in going out for rations or whatever system may be in place. If you're never leaving home it's pretty obvious you're doing fine and have food/water.
Jazzbert_@reddit
Do you really think that once “they” have taken what they consider all your gear that they won’t simply “off” you. Why would they let you live?
IDinnaeKen@reddit
I think it's a risk, but there's also a big step up from stealing something out of desperation to killing for no reason.
I think most of us can imagine ending up in a scenario where we have steal to survive (if we're being honest with ourselves, and even if we're good people). I think most of us would also feel horrified at the thought of killing someone.
Dorzack@reddit
If they are willing to take everything you have and leave you to starve, they might see you as competition for scavenging in the future or worry about you trying to take your stuff back. I am not sure it is all that big of a leap.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Plus, you're an added source of calories.
Notbannedanymore0913@reddit
But, in all likelihood, the first people doing the stealing during a societal breakdown aren’t going to be the good people. They are going to be the people who were doing it before things broke down. Generally, they are by definition, not good people. Is it a big leap from theft to murder? Probably, in a majority of cases, but most certainly not all… and the proportion of people who would make that leap is likely higher in the subgroup of people who were already participants in criminal activity prior.
KimBrrr1975@reddit
it's not just the thieving sorts though. New "governments" can start to form and they will make new laws. Like, we come inspect your property and you either share with the collective or we kill you and take it anyways. Keeping on the down-low with whatever you have seems important. Kind of hard to hide if you have a farm but putting pics of your pantry full of canned goods on Instagram isn't a great move. Sometimes, it's the well-intentioned that can be more problematic than the unorganized, chaotic criminal types.
ZenythhtyneZ@reddit
Yes, the first wave of chaos is the one I care about surviving the most, after that you can’t predict the next big wave but you’ve kept your head above water and that’s a lot better than a lot of other will do. I think also that first wave will be more chaotic in a different way than later waves out of panic, the fact that it is the first will make it especially disruptive and after that it’s all about appropriate reactions to risk
Interesting_Fan5846@reddit
If it's a them or me, I'm choosing me every time. If that means MAD, such is life. You will go down with me.
Fheredin@reddit
Even the majority of complete sociopaths will not make that decision in the moment of a disaster. The probability they have over-estimated how bad the disaster is and law enforcement will start trailing them for murder far exceeds the probability that letting you live will wind up being a mistake that matters.
MerelyMortalModeling@reddit
I grew up in a pretty rough area, was mugged a few times as a kid. I kept a decoy wallet with a five which I handed over twice.
I'm still here.
There is a huge jump from mugging and roughing people up to cold blooded murder.
Dmau27@reddit
They very well could. But when you are alone of outnumbered 10 to 1 you have a choice. Certainly die or possibly die.
Eazy12345678@reddit
if im robbing people to live there wont be any survivors.
No_Character_5315@reddit
I dunno if you've buried something before but it's 100% noticeable and anyone with a decent knowledge will know someone has buried something in that spot.
Jericho-G29@reddit
True but how many people want to go digging through my compost pile looking with dog shit and food rot in it for the possibility I buried something under there or is it just the turned earth/worms from routine turning of the pile. There's lots of reasons for turned earth but definitely they should have a thought on this before, not after. And giving them something to find "decoy stash" after some effort is better. Other possibilities, the "local militia or "civic defense group" collecting up supplies to share for the common goal(after they take a few choices pieces out). You don't want to be the one singled out for "hoarding" or not being willing to let them "inventory" your supplies to pool resources. Lots of scenarios that are compelled rather than frank robbery. Only keeping a minimum out also allows you to not be super sus about letting any former neighbors and friends into the house for day or communal cooking during said emergency. The best prep for small emergencies is planning and community. That said small 1-2 week or war 3-7 year events are more likely to happen yearly rather than a full collapse.
bardwick@reddit
This is along the lines of "you are responsible for feeding everyone that knows about your preps".
4r4nd0mninj4@reddit
Yeah, I was listening to an audio book about a disaster and the family had a large stockpile of water, but because it was in their backyard shed somebody saw them going in and out of the shed every day and raided it at night.
Particular-Try5584@reddit
I like that you realise there’s more to defence than carrying a gun and ammo.
The best fight to win is one you don’t have to fight.
If you can avoid the fight in the first place you win right?
sgtPresto@reddit
That is exactly what I have been doing. I counted my family and friends and allocated 2200 calories per day for men, 2000 for women, and 1800 for children. I then calculated total total calories for each stored food item and took total caloric needs and divided into total calories stored and got close to 6 months. I decided I needed a Replenishment Plan to replace food consumed. I knew each person would need about 200 square foot for daily consumption as well as stored (for winter). I looked at the best caloric yield per square foot and chose my targets. Here are my beds waiting for seedlings transplanting in early Spring after last frost.
I won't plant all this Spring but they are there and ready when/if needed.
PrepperBoi@reddit
Should have made a giant U shape. More sqft for planting.
TengaDoge@reddit
How do you have 6 months of water stored? What about when there is no utilities? How do you flush toilets, cook or store food?
PrepperBoi@reddit
My 2 person 2 dog household could probably survive on less than 1000 gallons of water for 6 months. I keep approx 50 gallons in bottle water (10 cases)
The place I’m renting has a 10k+ gallon pool. It also rains a lot, and people hand dig wells here to 40ft and hit water. This house actually has a well for a sprinkler system, so I could probably get that working for non-potable water.
You’re gonna need to dig a latrine. If the sewer system fails you aren’t going to want to leave your toilets unblocked.
bearsofsteel@reddit
I would try to find a balance between sustaining myself but occasionally being charitable. The more people in a community you have on your side, the more likely you are to survive longer.
Obviously be prepared to defend from thieves, but all im saying is a grateful neighbor might be willing to help guard your house or find more stuff for you.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
The brutal, honest answer irrespective of location?
Those who are prepared will have to decide how they are to interact with those who did not prepare (TOTAL COLLAPSE SCENARIO.) If it's a localized disaster, I personally advocate helping till it hurts, and then some, because you can always restock.
That changes drastically if it's a true collapse. No help is coming, and what you have is ALL you have. People do crazy things even when not stressed- that's amped up to 1000 when starving and desperate. Those with supplies will absolutely have to deal with those who do not have any.
Everyone's answer is different and based on various factors. Ted Koppel's book "Lights Out" has interviews with people who take varying viewpoints on this.
Some people will give away their supplies and starve themselves, believing to have done the right thing, others will protect and preserve just friends and family. Ultimately, there isn't a right answer, because if the grid goes down (at least in the U.S.) the estimates are 90% dead within a year.
How you plan to try and be in that last 10% is a very personal decision.
funkmon@reddit
90% dead within a year? In 1860, in 33 states, the population was 10% of what it is now.
There's a zero percent chance that happens in a year by just losing electricity and natural gas, even if somehow the entire infrastructure of the country was hit at once, which is next to impossible.
I'd be interested to see where these estimates got their numbers
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
That's exactly my point. The population returns to what it was pre-electricity. Before we had infrastructure boosting our population. Farming, clean water....everything is now dependent on power. The figure is from the EMP commission. However the grid goes down, EMP, physical attack, cyber attack, the 90% figure is fairly accurate.
I wish I could say I've learned things over the years to disprove it. But 15+ years of research, a Masters degree in Emergency Management, and all I've come up with is more evidence to support that 90% figure.
funkmon@reddit
Well then you'll be glad to know that as of the first electric service in the USA the country had 50 million people.
You'll be even more pleased to know that I've read both reports produced by the EMP commission and it says nothing of the sort regarding projected deaths. Indeed, the recommendations and consequences sections are next to useless for any specific information, simply saying things like "store more food." And "without water people die."
So, at least these two things don't support the 90% hypothesis.
Is there a specific estimate you can point me to about 90%?
Final_Cauliflower_13@reddit
You make such a strange, specious argument. Yes, many millions lived before electricity. They also had the requisite skills to do so, and hadn't become dependent on electricity for their survival. Sure, someone living in a very remote area, off the grid, and already subsistence farming wouldn't even notice if others' power went out. But that doesn't describe 99.99% of the U.S. population.
funkmon@reddit
I didn't make an argument. I said I don't believe it.
Thandryn@reddit
I don't have stats to back this up which obviously makes my response of limited value.
Given the percentage of the population in urban centres who are absolutely reliant on electricity for drinking water, sewage, heating, transportation, and by extension food. Then rural peoples similarly dependent.
Do you think more than 30 million peoples in the united states could survive 12 months without grocery stores, maintained sewerage and clean water systems, without heating.
The carrying capacity of the world, and the self reliance of the population is almost incomparable to the mid nineteenth century.
I find it entirely plausible that you're looking at 90% mortality within 12 months of a total collapse of the electrical grid and organised government and distribution
funkmon@reddit
I don't think that a total grid collapse would result in a collapse of government or distribution. I also think a lot of it could be brought back quickly enough.
If it's all gone forever for sure, back to the stone age, I think it probably would take 2 years for that many people to die. I think there's enough for enough people to last that long.
Due_Beginning2836@reddit
Why are you so hell bent on disproving this when sooo many people, plus the science, have proven you wrong? Sooo many people die YEARLY from heatwave, rolling outages, freezing winters that lead to burst pipes & power outages, hunger, lack of shelter, etc etc but you think NO power and THIS (American) government would not lead to 90% morality? Oh to be as blind to the world...
funkmon@reddit
I'm not trying to disprove anything. There's no evidence or science behind this, just speculation by a dude after a leading question. I just don't buy it.
I'm glad I don't have your outlook on life.
TechnicalShare3@reddit
50 million people is about 15% of today's 370 million people, or about 85% of the population is dying off. Honestly 90% isn't too far off and that's just a rounding error for how traumatic losing 289 million people will be. Whether that's in a year timeframe or not is another question.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp_reference_document/
Here's the reference doc with multiple reports. Essentially, during a congressional hearing, the experts were asked "This fictional book cites a 90% casualty rate. Would we see things like that during an actual EMP attack?"
The answer was yes, in that ballpark. I believe they say 70-90%. That's where the figure comes from. I've learned very, very little over 15 years of research and a Masters in Emergency Management, that disproves that upper 90% estimate. If anything, I've only grown more certain that'd be the case.
It's not a 1-1 correlation. Electricity is the major factor, but keep in mind, people back then also knew how to live without modern utilities. Dirty drinking water alone would kill untold millions if the taps suddenly ran dry. Food production (cattle and farming) nowadays is dependent on electricity- not so back then.
I actually had the privilege to converse with the late Dr. Pry (head of the EMP commission.) He told me that he had to fight tooth and nail just to release what is in those reports, general as it may be. There are a lot of specifics, apparently, that could not be released.
Unfortunately, in regards to the electrical grid collapsing, storing food, ways to purify water, and learning how to start your own gardens is the truly best way to prepare. It's a massive undertaking and late-stage prep, of that I freely admit.
But an infrastructure collapse is truly a nightmare scenario.
4r4nd0mninj4@reddit
With the number of people in cities that rely entirely on electricity and natural gas for heat and clean water...if the dysentery doesn't get them, the winter and roving gangs will.
debaucherous_@reddit
you do not comprehend at all what losing electricity means.
electricity goes out. boom. you have two weeks before everything perishable spoils. two weeks of food. now everyone's moving on to whatever cans and boxed food they have. remember, america doesn't grow nearly enough food to sustain ourselves. if there's no electricity, supply chains are entirely down. now we're at a month. how much food do you think is probably left with nothing else coming?
how about water?
what happens when winter rolls around? let's take new york city to illustrate. homeless people freeze in the winter months there all the time. that would just be... everyone, without a way to sufficiently heat their home. LA might not have that issue but they'd run into the reverse, rampant heatstroke with no way to cool down and no easy access to water.
power is everything, just really think it through. if we fully lose the grid it will be devastating and everyone who doesn't have a plan for getting through that first year of chaos will definitely end up dead
funkmon@reddit
I do. There's zero chance, in my opinion, that losing electricity kills 90% of the country within a year.
WorkinSlave@reddit
Not totally disagreeing with you. However, Water might flow by gravity, but the treatment plant operates with electricity.
Final_Cauliflower_13@reddit
As do the pumps that fill the water towers. I'm not sure the poster has a deep understanding of how municipal water supplies function.
funkmon@reddit
Correct.
debaucherous_@reddit
just wanted to revisit this thread bc i've been thinking about it for a few days. 80% of america's population resides in cities. does that make it easier for you to comprehend the amount of loss we'd have? surely you understand cities will become barren wastelands very quickly. food will go bad. you can't produce food in a city the way you described earlier. and that's before you factor in the civilian violence that would occur as other societal structures break down and people are fighting to survive.
so, let's say each city still has a few gangs of survivors. let's say 10% of each city's population is able to stay. right off the bat, that's 70% of americans dead.
now let's switch to rural areas. that makes up 20% of america's population. you really can't imagine than half of them would die? whether it's a small illness that's no longer fixable bc they can't get gas to drive somewhere, maybe they don't produce enough food to make it through the first hard winter, maybe they were already poor (as most rural areas are) and don't have the baaic materials needed to survive without government assistance ALREADY.
i just genuinely don't get how anyone doesn't understand the level of horror that would happen if we truly lost the entire grid.
do you have any further justification for your opinion?
ZealousidealChart729@reddit
This number came from James Woolsey, who was testifying in a senate hearing. He said there were 2 estimates. One is 2/3 of people would die if the grid were down for one year, and the other estimate is 90% would die. I'm not sure how they came to these estimates or how accurate they would truly be.
WorkinSlave@reddit
Also, our food production is based on synthetic fertilizers which are produced from natural gas and… electricity.
The world can only sustain 1 billion people without synthetic fertilizers. And that means almost all of us are farming most the land.
TaquitoAchicopalado@reddit
Well, that's terrible fucking news because isn't the phosphorus supply nearly exhausted? Fertilizers work because of that shit, is everyone just going to die after 2030 when that shit is gone???
WorkinSlave@reddit
I think most estimates are saying 50ish years. Some people think that our topsoil cant handle another 100 years at the current farming intensity.
debaucherous_@reddit
how does this person assume the currently grown food will get from point A to point B? i live in a corn state. nothing but cornfields. who's harvesting it? how are they doing so? who's driving it to other non-farming states? who's PAYING for it without electronic payment systems? who's scheduling the shipment?
people don't comprehend our infrastructure and wellbeing is tied together, all of us, through electricity. if we lose that electricity, society ceases to function and all the systems we once had free of electricity are no longer in existence to pick up the slack.
TechnicalShare3@reddit
90% might be too high, but I think it's anywhere between 50% to 90%. Also note food isn't grown evenly distributed across the United States. Lots of states rely on shipment of fresh food during the colder months. If electricity is out for one year, it highly depends on if logistics can be restarted fast enough to get food to areas that can't grow food. Lots of things trucked or freight trains in, requiring diesel production. Horses likely will make a comeback but the horse population needs to increase drastically.
This is highly dependent on communication network too. If no one knows about Middle of Nowhere Village has people willing to buy/needs food, no one is going to ship food there.
On the flip side, there's likely mass migration to cities with stable food supplies or farms, likely West and South or anything near the Mississippi River. Logistics for shipping to the North East will likely be done by boats if sail boats make a comeback.
jayhat@reddit
Electricity is everything. It goes, everything goes. No food production, fuel production, fuel transport /delivery, food transport /delivery, no computers / internet for business records, finance, no refrigeration. No new houses and apartments have wood stoves or fireplaces - most everyone north of a certain line are dead at some point through the winter. All this will cause a massive breakdown in society, social norms, law enforcement, and massive amounts will die due to some type of violence. Either just from criminals being criminals, or looters killing / being killed. You have a naive sense of the world to not be able to comprehend 90%+ will die within a year. I’d wager it happens faster.
bwong00@reddit
This seems entirely reasonable to me. It never occurs to me how dependent I am on electricity until the power goes out. So many things we take for granted in our daily lives. Cooling. Heating. Refrigerator. Light. Entertainment. Communication. Transportation. The list goes on and on.
How many people are dependent on electricity somewhere in the supply chain? 90% death might be low. Could be 99+%.
_pseudoname_@reddit
Page 5 has the 90% estimate.
funkmon@reddit
Oh I see that. That's pretty speculative but I understand.
Dmau27@reddit
Keep false stashes and bury 90% of everything. You might be outnumbered and you'll be forced to give up everything. I have hidden firearms and I'm prepared to bury my stock of emergency foods as well as water.
ratmouthlives@reddit
If you’re not burying your firearms on property you own, how/where would you bury them?
Dmau27@reddit
You build them into the walls. Cut a pocket out, stash it behind the sheet rock, put up a new piece, mud it, sand it and paint. I have a .380 acp and I have a crawlspace hatch in my hardwood floors. The house came with it. I could just grt in there, stash them between the floor boards underneath and keep what I need on hand. Usually one close range 9mm carbine, an AR15 5.56 16", some handguns and plenty of ammo.
rjselzler@reddit
That’s going to be a wild demo for someone years after you’ve passed! I love it!
jadelink88@reddit
I took apart a garage last year, and was cutting out a door to salvage with a reciprocating saw. 22 pistol ammo started raining down on me, glad I didnt set the box off. No firearm, but a couple of boxes worth of ancient ammo in those walls.
Dmau27@reddit
Lol fuck that I'm getting them back. I have sheetrock spackle and paint.
wakaro@reddit
Nice. Do you have to smash the wall to access it?
How about the floor hatch, what's the best way to make it "invisible" for unwanted intruders?
ratmouthlives@reddit
You’re my hero.
Dmau27@reddit
Lol I feel delusional for being the guy that hides guns everywhere. I fear we're going through a lot in the US and we're at am all time low in our trust in government. Our infrastructure is open to attack and pur enemies have already been caught accessing it. The fact we could lose power and most utilities if our infrastructure is hacked is more than enough to be prepared. I'm going to get into reloading too so I have ammo no matter what. Projectile molds too.
guarlo@reddit
What enemies are accessing it? Haven't heard of anything.
Vast-Fortune-1583@reddit
Accessing our info? Musk is doing that. He owns social media. NSA, China, Russia. Nothing is safe anymore. Nothing
Dmau27@reddit
China. NSA claims they could do it anytime.
guarlo@reddit
It sure seems from an European pov that Russia has played their game well and won against the US. US is willingly threathning allies and being friendly with Russia.
To me that would be more scary than China aince China basically has access to everywhere due to being major importer. But if they did something it would hurt their markets so badly they would not recover. US is too big of a market for China.
ratmouthlives@reddit
I mean at worst it’s just a hobby if shit never hits the fan. At best it puts you in the best position possible. I would have thought you were delusional but everything changed in 2020 and the subsequent years.
ScumBunny@reddit
Way to give up your position bud.
Aurora1717@reddit
I have a family member that entombed multiple firearms in this way when building a new addition on his house.
monkyonarock@reddit
and now you’ve posted it online ???
F6Collections@reddit
Prison pocket.
voiderest@reddit
I'm not going to be able to fit an AR back there.
F6Collections@reddit
With a little training anything is possible
Joint-User@reddit
Better stick to small arms...
leftsidetopwise@reddit
just be wary of pickpockets
F6Collections@reddit
What’s Selco’s story? Got a link?
Droidy934@reddit
https://prephole.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread-6265/
forensicgirla@reddit
Awful comments though at the end
forensicgirla@reddit
Gosh those comments were horrific.
F6Collections@reddit
Thanks
cruelandusual@reddit
When this happens and you're not already a farmer, you're not actually prepared.
LilGrippers@reddit
Do yall not have families? Lol
Due_Beginning2836@reddit
What would a family do if there's no power and nobody in said family has prepped??😵💫
Banjoe64@reddit
When you say, “if the grid goes down” do you mean government collapse? Electrical grid?
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
I'll clarify in my comment. I meant if the electrical grid fails and does not come back online.
GhostofGrimalkin@reddit
Electrical grid
erad67@reddit
You already know most won't prep. So, you have to decide if you will help others or not. If not, just get what you'll need. If so, then you'll need more than what you alone will need. If you will help others, think about how many you will help and how much you'll help them.
unoriginal_goat@reddit
Well that's pretty much my covid experience.
People relied on my stockpile. seed stash, tools and knowledge base to get through the shortages.
What will I do? plan, organize prepare and stockpile.
From the Covid lesson I increased the size of my hydroponics setup and doubled my seed supply I've been a seed saver and gardener for years .
The best defense is teaching others what you know as other people will be invested in keeping your resources intact. You can't fight off everything alone.
The lone wolf vs hoards of "raiders" fantasy is just that a fantasy it's better to foster community.
advamputee@reddit
A lot of people in this sub (and others) have this one-man-army / hero mentality that’ll likely get themselves killed.
In an urban environment, the name of the game is grey man.
If all of your neighbors don’t have power, don’t flaunt your generator / backup batteries — blackout curtains are your best friend, as well as energy generation that doesn’t create noise (solar, wind).
Food supplies are great, nosy neighbors aren’t. If everyone is standing in a bread line for their rations, but you’re holed up in your house, people will get curious. Supplement your nutrition but don’t draw attention to yourself. This applies to consumption as well — if everyone is malnourished, you’ll be pretty suspicious if you’re healthy / gaining weight.
Prestigious-Fig-5513@reddit
If you have food, and others don't and are losing weight you need to be losing weight too. Don't stick out. Don't let others know what you have.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Yup. If there are government handouts for food, even though you're still good to go, still get in line and take them. Less people asking "hey, this person hasn't been getting food for the last few days/weeks. I bet they have a stash."
WillThereBeMoss@reddit
Wouldn’t people be even more upset if they found out you were getting in line for handouts when you had your own stash at home? It’s like collecting welfare while making money on a side hustle.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
The idea is that people shouldn't find out at all. That's why you try to blend in. That's why you get in line, so no one asks questions. Only way people are going to find out is if you run your mouth about it.
InformationPrevious@reddit
Or for the bonus round collect the ration and give half of it to your neighborhood watcher ome day and the mlst vulnerable person you know another. Build community with some of the rations. Then when the bad guys come you have some soft power favors to call in. We are wired to respond to intermittant rewards. Use the rations to create these. Why half a ration to any one person? So they thonk you are sharing w them. Because we are also wired to respond to sharing. Rebuild faith in humanity eith the rations and rebuild a tribe based on their reactions.
Dmau27@reddit
This. Plus you want yours to go as long as it can. If you hold up while they eat rations you'll run out around the time the rations stop and be in the same boat. Sad truth is you're only advantage is surviving when they don't, always take opportunities to get provisions assuming it's safe to do so.
wakaro@reddit
It's really safe to be fasting every day until sunset where you eat a proper meal, then repeat next day. Muslims are doing it all around the world as we speak. And it's incredibly common to lose some weight during a 1 month period.
quick6ilver@reddit
First rule of prepclub...
Fit_Winner2994@reddit
🤫🤐
Spiley_spile@reddit
We're preppers. If your shtf scenario is desperate people, part of your prep can be finding ways to reduce their desperation ahead of time.
I build disaster preparedness bins for other people. (My gf calls hers a "resilience bin".)
Im adisaster first responder and a community educator about local disasters.
East-Selection1144@reddit
Have seed supplies to share, maybe local foraging books. Trade, build community. Don’t want that person you turned away be the one who has the skill you need tomorrow. Absolutely turn away aggression though. Everyone can do something. Paraplegic can do watch, narcoleptic can weave, great-grandma can tell stories to the kids and teach old skills, etc.
Spiley_spile@reddit
>Don’t want that person you turned away be the one who has the skill you need tomorrow.
So much that.
Let me tell you a thing about aggression though. It is a thing many normally non-aggressive people may experience for a moment, off and on, or for a run of time following a disaster. It's not even limited to humans. Other animals, insects even, become more aggressive following disasters. People can become escalated, argue, shout, shove. And people, maybe even me, or you. Would you even recognize it in yourself or would you treat people from a more aggressive/escalated body thinking you were being as reasonable as always? It's why my team is encouraged to take basic disaster psychology and deescalation courses. Even with brains going haywire, people are also still likely to become more altruistic following a disaster. Wanting to help but possibly also being an asshole and unintentionally being an impediment to rescue efforts and such... we shouldn't necessarily write each other off. We should work now, ahead of time, on equipping ourselves with the skills to recognize in ourselves and others what may be happening. If we have it in us, grant people an extra measure of patience and compassion. This isn't the same as sacrificing self-defense. It's about broadening our tools, widening our options, and better informing our calculations for best self-defense methods. Self-defense may be aggressive and physical on our parts. It may also be a calm, steady voice, lowering the volume of the situation literally and figuratively. Increasing our skills in both directions helps us realize which direction best expands our chances of survival. That aggressive person may be the person equipped to set up a field hospital, or the wound care nurse who will be better to have on hand in a field hospital than 5 doctors.
East-Selection1144@reddit
I mean those that cause division in the group. Women are very good gauges of this. One way to spot how safe an area is, even today, is to see what the ratio of men to women is. The safer an area is the higher the amount of women will be. If it is nearly 100% men; do not take your children, especially your daughters there. There is protective aggression, which you obviously want, and self centered/narcissistic aggression that will end up harming your hard fought community. If most of the women and/or children are anxious of a new (or old) member, watch them very very closely.
Colddigger@reddit
The whole "teach a man to fish" idea.
Spiley_spile@reddit
That and an emphasis on "each one teach one". I don't paywall my skill shares and regularly invite people who attend to share what they learned with others. If they want to teach the same class as is, or modify it even, I'm happy for them to do so. My only requirement is that they don't charge if they use my handouts. Paywalls reduce the number of people able to attend. And that ultimately reduces the community's survival chances. Best to keep people learning and teaching with as few roadblocks as possible.
Necessary-Tower-457@reddit
Dit zijn nou eens goede vragen!
fatuous4@reddit
I've been trying to spread this around: https://prephole.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread-6265/
Came across this the other day. It's an account of someone from 1990s Bosnia who lived during a 1-year SHTF civil war scenario. Lots of good info in here that seems very realistic, very not glamorous prepper hero story. Speaks to the situation that I think will help you think through your personal situation.
runningraleigh@reddit
The most important thing I learned from that account was planning for a defense perimeter. People in this thread are talking about decoy stashes as if they will be getting away with their life if their home is overrun by a desperate mob.
Unless you are going to let them just walk right in, you will have been fighting to keep them out, so they will be wounded and angry. At best they take you prisoner, at worst they rape your wife and children in front of you before killing you all. This happened in Ukraine, it can happen anywhere.
Now I do agree with not walking around like a living loot drop. Be dirty, act sick, carry only what you need for the day, that makes sense. I'm also not imagining that I would build big barriers in advance, the Bosnian man who wrote that account said those houses were some of the first hit by large gangs. But if SHTF, my plan to surround my house with giant piles of trash, string some concertina wire on top, and make it real difficult for anyone to get in if they aren't invited.
GenericUsername19892@reddit
At that point you are now a loot box, so be careful.
FlyingSpaceBanana@reddit
This is why I have makeup in my kit. Get onto You Tube and learn how to make yourself look sick and gaunt. Getting a simple bruise wheel (that's what its called) will help you look as desperate and starving as everyone else.
You do not want to be the well fed looking one in this scenario.
FunAdministration334@reddit
Damn. I was relying on being thicc as my prep. :-/
In all seriousness, good on you for considering make-up to camouflage yourself among the others.
FlyingSpaceBanana@reddit
Oh belive me, I have a fair amount of chub on me, but you can disguise that with an xxl raggedy coat. I am NOT using up my famine insulation bum before I have to.
nite_skye_@reddit
I was going to suggest wearing clothes a couple of sizes too big to look like you’ve lost weight but can’t buy anything that fits like everyone else. Make sure to wear them any time you’re outside of your house, including just working around your property. Might wear them full time if possible to do so.
VictoryItchy6470@reddit
Project2034: "So remember with the CME hitting between 2032 to 2035, all the tech is gone, and then a whole mass of ET ships come down to set up society, this is a form of Galactic Law to help Quarantined Civiliation avoid total extinction, so you really gonna just stay safe, warm, and blended in for about 2 to 4 months before you head out to the local replicator station. you should have zero-tech wagons and other tools like child taxi bikes to haul supplies."
Low_Turn_4568@reddit
The situation could be that you lose your job. Or something happens with your bank account. Often you can make agreements/payment plans with bills but not food.
Better to have it and never need it
FunAdministration334@reddit
Yep. That’s a far more likely scenario. Heck, it’s one most of us face at some point in our lives. Have a first aid kit, some canned goods and water, but for heavens sake, have 3-6 months of savings too.
Gaymer7437@reddit
I can stockpile food and bandaging supplies. I can't have much in savings. I'm relying on social security and food stamps and Medicaid so I can't have more than $2K in savings. Since my car accident a few years ago I haven't even surpassed a thousand in savings any given month because it is one financial crisis to another financial crisis.
FunAdministration334@reddit
Fair point. Personally, I think it would make sense to raise that savings cap, but I’m not an elected official. Sorry to hear about your situation. If you lived closer, I’d bring you some stuff from my garden. 🪴
Due_Beginning2836@reddit
Same here. I'm gardening and foraging but I'll be the first one "lootin and pollutin" too lol
InformationPrevious@reddit
4-6 months of savings in fiat currency will not be worth much if hyperinflation happens. Alcohol, expertise in animals, plants, medicinals and food prep/storage, entertainmemt and negotiations will be more useful. Remember in true collapse corporations die first. Looting begins at the grocery store not the neighbors garage. And it starts when the payment systems go down..
SeasonDramatic@reddit
This is so salt of the earth. We prep for everything even something as small as personal financial collapse. That may be more likely than any other collapse since the homeless have begun massing.
abackyardsmoker@reddit
I just recently said somewhere else on here, prepping for Tuesday is a lot more valuable for most people than prepping for collapse. My preps have bailed us out on various occasions I wouldn't have expected.
Low_Turn_4568@reddit
Plus even if there's a major power outage or Blizzard or flood, having canned items you can eat without cooking is massive.
NoUseForAName2222@reddit
I'm not just prepping for me. I'm prepping to help those that don't in the event of a disaster.
I recommend reading the book A Paradise Built in Hell by Rebecca Solnit. It shows how in times of collapse communities come together and help each other.
Folks on here are talking about hiding and hoarding, but that's because government propaganda has them convinced that without a big daddy state to control the people we'd all go feral. Real world experience teaches the opposite of that.
Your preps will run out. When that happens, you'll need community to survive.
GreatPlains_MD@reddit
I could see this working in small towns, but larger cities sound like a nightmare scenario. You can reason with over 100k starving people.
NoUseForAName2222@reddit
The book I mentioned opened with the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 and also discussed other major cities having disasters, including Mexico City and New York City.
The belief that we'd go feral without a big stare watching us is just government propaganda. We don't need them.
GreatPlains_MD@reddit
And how long were these cities truly in a SHTF scenario with no outside supplies coming in from other areas? Were people ever on the brink of starvation?
NoUseForAName2222@reddit
You'd know if you read the book instead of asking me about it.
GreatPlains_MD@reddit
It’s okay, no one was close to starving. We get it.
NoUseForAName2222@reddit
Look at you, trying to have an argument on the internet for no reason. 😂
Find some friends and quit trolling. Bye.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
I hate to be the minority opinion, but blending in is not going to work. Not for six months.
If people around you can't get food for even one month, they are starving to death. Before that happens, there will be widespread looting, just on the chance that someone - someone like you - will be hiding food. And in fact, as time passes when you have food and they don't, you'd have trouble passing as malnourished. You're not blending in well if you aren't suffering as they are.
Add to that the problems of hiding cooking smells, the heat signature of cooking itself - you're in a cold climate, heat is easy to detect.... sure you can bury food, but now you have to hide signs of digging, and just because person X hits you for they little you have above ground one week, that week doesn't mean person Y won't try the same thing a week later and get your next week's allotment. And if X and Y ever talk they'll know you have a hidden cache and it's all over.
In a societal collapse so severe that everyone around you has no food, and help isn't coming, the only option is to leave. Immediately, before people understand the desperation that's coming.
If you must stay home, at the very least you need a secret compartment in your home for food and water, and you need to focus on food that doesn't require much cooking. The goal is to never leave the house and to give no evidence anyone is home. That's about impossible (and people will be breaking into abandoned homes looking for any possible food anyway.) Bathrooms needs will be a problem if sewage systems aren't working - you can't store it all indoors and leaving it outside will attract attention.
There is no good solution to staying within a long term social collapse. You must leave.
wakaro@reddit
It's a tough nut to crack, or more accurately, it's a tough call to make in a very tricky situation to analyze.
We live in a place that is also dangerous in the wild with tons of venomous animals and a handful of mammals that can finish us in seconds.
Taking that leap means you need to be over 99% sure the city is finished. Aka last resort.
TooFarFromTheNutTree@reddit
It’s like the twilight zone episode “The shelter.” It’s a good commentary on human nature and it is still applicable today.
Eredani@reddit
This is where my one year food supply turns into a one week food supply when my 52 neighbors find out about it.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Urban area 6 months and general population effect. Water and sanitation would be my worries. If things have broken down the sewers will stop working. The resulting disease outbreaks would make the area untenable.
Moving your preps would not be viable so would just write them off (give to friends) and go to bug out location. Would expect a steady trickle of people heading out to blend in with, your going to get robbed and shaken down if you have waited this long.
So it's regular caches along your travel route.
We are seeing things like this today is war torn areas generally not quite as bad but close.
chiquimonkey@reddit
Im asking honestly-where is the bug out location? Wont everyone be surging into the countryside, looking for a safe place?
How do you realistically store preps at a secondary sight, and keep it safe?
My concern is that leaving your well stocked, prepped home for another location during a shtf scenerio is even more dangerous, and ultimately unrealistic.
Can you let me know what the pros are, and how I can best prep & plan for a bug out location? Tia
silasmoeckel@reddit
What will vary person to person, between money family etc.
I would agree leaving for a nebulous someplace is an extreme last resort.
My first setup was a friends back 40, dropped a shipping container and a camper. Since then gotten further out from even close to urban for my day to day and have a nice cluster of cabins with similarly minded friends. Established gardens and a lot of gorilla plantings now with things like starlink it's very practical to go there if things get bad enough to pull the kids from school. Back then nothing ever got bad enough that felt it worth bugging out.
Flux_State@reddit
If 99% didn't prepare, than neither did you. Lone Wolfs wont survive, communities will. Outreach to your neighbors should be a priority.
Prestigious-Plant338@reddit
Kids are the worst…
BebopRocksteady82@reddit
They'll try to take your preps obviously
Prestigious-Plant338@reddit
They will “ask nicely” at first.
BJ42-1982@reddit
The functional illiterate are dangerous since they will band up and scrounge first in their local area before moving on. Some shit head will claim himself as king turd and will form a gang of scroungers who will be desperate. Hopefully, your group is small enough where you can blend in or disappear or there is enough of you to protect what you have.
Spiritual_Clothes854@reddit
Master Blaster->Bartertown
ResponsibleBank1387@reddit
Hopefully you can just hermit. I can’t see a total, all done collapse. Shoot everybody you don’t know. Only protect and provide for me and mine. Then again, who knows. People are weird.
cenesontquedesgueux@reddit
Tell me you're not from the Netherlands, without telling me you're not from the Netherlands.
Moist_Wolverine_25@reddit
lol. “Shoot everybody you don’t know.” Followed by “people are weird.”
IntoTheCommonestAsh@reddit
"The weird neighbour hasn't been out much since the start of this, I'm gonna go check on him see if he needs something." BANG
Moist_Wolverine_25@reddit
Hahahah. I have a neighbor that I told my wife to definitely steer clear of when covid first hit. Dude was ready on day 1 for anything to go down
Own_Instance_357@reddit
I've been a low-key prepper for maybe like 15 years or so as a useful hobby. I didn't really realize anyone was paying attention until covid rolled around and I got a text from a fellow town mom I hadn't seen in years since our kids grew up. She said "we were all just at something talking about you, we all decided if TSHTF we're all coming to live at your place."
That's when I realized their kids who had played here were going home and telling their parents about whatever they saw here, and they were telling each other. I guess it was a joke for a while ... until it was not.
I'm not a bad neighbor. I actually milled my own wheat grains into flour into brown paper bags for my neighbors when there was a "shortage" and I felt SUPER vindicated, but I also don't really want anyone else looking in my pantry anymore.
JoeStumpo@reddit
I don’t blame you, I wouldn’t like others around me to know what I’ve stored either. People can entirely flip when they’re starving and it can put them in fight for flight mode so the last thing I’d want under prepared people around me to know is that I’ve got a stash at my place lol
big_nasty_the2nd@reddit
Someone’s going to probably kill you and take your shit lol.
Embarrassed-Lynx6526@reddit
What preps? I don't have any extra food.
In fact I've got diarrhea from drinking water that I didn't clean right.
4_rotor@reddit
One of the key attributes of prepping is that you do it for you and your's. Not your neighbors, not your town, not even a close friend. When the chips are down and people are starving, then things get violent. Take away either water, food, or power and watch society crumble. If you have one or all three of those things, then keep that shit quiet. Invest in a security system and I don't mean an alarm (though a locally hosted alarm system is useful in its own right). You want secure comms, wired cams, ideally a modern firearm, a silencer for that firearm, body armor, etc. Those are the defensive tools, but to be proactive is the best way to insure you do not have to defend yourself. You want a way to monitor activity in your area. ISR and SIGINT are your friends here. If you can better understand your area, then you may be able to see trouble coming. To make this short, you want to monitor the RF spectrum, keep up with local events, stay informed, and invest in a drone. Ideally a multi spectral one. Situational awareness is key.
EntireAdeptness3890@reddit
Don't tell people what you have but community building and making friends is what will save you if the world ends. Otherwise you're as dead as you are solo. People who have actually survived real shit will tell you that on this very sub.
https://prephole.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread-6265/
4_rotor@reddit
I would agree, none of it works solo. That does not mean you should prepare to lean on the support of others. You should do your best, futile as it may become, to be ready to survive a SHTF/WROL situation solo. I think most of us will start out that way and for some people they may never find a group of trustworthy people to share resources and ability with. I know it's a struggle I face. I'm doing everything I can to be prepared, but when no one around me shares that sentiment, then there isn't much I can do, but to plan to be solo. OP seems to be in the same boat. That's where my advice comes from.
Jackaroni97@reddit
I started prepping after the inauguration because the minute he started I knew it was a downward slope with little saving without extreme measures from SCOTUS and the people.
No one I know is prepping. Not a single person, even the ones terrified. I'm moving to another state, and got a weapon, training, prep gear, and a SHTF bag ready. I just need some gas masks.
preppers-ModTeam@reddit
Your submission has been removed for being "Not focused on prepping/Off-Topic - Political." Try to keep posts and comments on the topic of prepping and not on politics. You may reference political events in your posts and comments as a way to lead into a discussion of prepping, but the main point of your post or comment should not be about politics.
Feel free to contact the moderators if you would like clarification on the removal reason.
keinezeit44@reddit
I read an interesting account of a Hiroshima survivor who made it through the radiation blast by being surrounded by books in his home library. The whiteness of the paper reflected much of the radiation. Similarly, people wearing white clothing fared much better than those wearing dark clothing. Of course a white T-shirt won't save you if you're too close to detonation.
SandiegoJack@reddit
Yep, I am maybe 15k of spending into my prep since the inauguration and talk of tariffs.
NewEnglandPrepper3@reddit
then they come for your stuff
Dapper_dreams87@reddit
Ultimately prepping puts you in a less stressful situation for when those moments arise. It doesn't really matter what others do. Like we lost power for a week last year. We had water, we had ways to flush our toilets. We had wipes to help freshen up a little. We did not have to worry about food and we could have a warm meal. It was pretty nice.
DanteMustDye@reddit
Don't leave your house for 3 months then. No one will last that long without prep.
SmokeAccomplished298@reddit
Lotta talk about caches and false caches. Thing is...it's pretty easy to gut a home out completely in a short amount of time with a couple peoples help, and run a metal detector on your property. You should think in a devils advocate way, especially since you very well may need to be the devil in order to survive yourself.
--Things to keep in mind when creating a real stash, and creating false stashes.
Considering most government level plans for scenarios like what many people prep for, include gutting everyone for everything and then going full apocalyptic socialism until everyone starves, you should really only have one false stash per structure, and keep it simple and small asf, and give it up nearly immediately. Don't waste resources that WILL BE FOUND. It should be something like a false vent, clearly loose but not worn out, or something like that, with no more than a cubic foot of anything in total.
Concrete usually has rebar, and sets off metal detectors in a way that doesn't raise enough suspicion to be worth the effort. Underground gas lines are dangerous to excavate near and very much the same, explains itself away, not worth the risk and effort.
The thing is, your true stashes should align with those... barriers.. and should mind the FACT that there are no barriers when it comes to surviving. They need to be not worth the effort to you, to nearly not make sense to YOU. If YOU were to come to take from someone else, what would YOU miss.
YOU are not going to rip up otherwise normal concrete pads and walls to get food. YOU are not going to dig at a clearly marked UG gas line. YOU are going to believe the guy who only tucked away a cubic foot of canned spaghetti with last months production date, a bag of chips, and a .380 inside his HVAC vent, then felt bad for even doing it when you gut his whole house of drywall and find it. YOU are going to sweep the yard with a metal detector. YOU are going to check the box labeled "HALLOWEEN DECORATIONS". YOU are going to check behind and inside the parts compartments of the fridge and stove. YOU are going to notice the drywall patch.
YOU have all prepped many things yourself in all these ways you are all suggesting, but that is why YOU will know how to look for them, and that is why YOU need to prep against the preppers themselves. It has to throw off the effort/reward ratio in a borderline insane way, such that YOU wouldn't even know to "check that spot".
Off site stashes and locations have this principle built in. It's very difficult to get around it in a long term bug in. You will end up corralled into a WalMart type building, taking free food, while the powers that be gut you and your neighbors entire existence, AND you will NOT have access to your "on site stash" because YOU will not be on site (that is how you motivate people to give up all their locations to begin with). Ultimately, off site is what you should be planning for. Anything serious on site is enough to get you off site, EARLY, not raise too much suspicion when you're digging up your metaphorical yard, and nothing more than what you would need to slip away. Small and light is best if staying isn't wise.
Also- If you've ever had to give up a functional bug out bag, you quickly learn the value of what is in your pockets, and who you know.
OSteady77@reddit
Personally, I plan to work with a few neighbors and our families to survive. I have a decent sized garden, most of us are hunters, and we all have generators that can be used. Supply runs can have multiple people for safety, and we can all help keep with security. Outside of that, I don’t intend to help anyone. I will prioritize my family/group over anyone else in that situation.
FunAdministration334@reddit
The emphasis on collaboration is huge. Humans lived in groups for a reason. Good on you and your neighbors for helping each other out!
Particular-Try5584@reddit
You hide, with your preps.
And this is why you don’t tell people about your preps.
If you can’t hide… you pretend you aren’t prepped.
Live in plain sight with everyone else, and get skinnier, dirtier and more miserable alongside them. Just live with subsistence eating out of your preps… and somehow your immune system is better than other people’s right now.
thedreadedaw@reddit
Me and mine will be on our own. No one around us I prepping at all. They honestly have no clue. Don't watch news, didn't vote, many are functionally illiterate. It's a small rural town. We can only hope the ones who can leave do so, thinking there are greener pastures in larger cities. We only have one tiny mini mart. There is no community here. It's already pretty much every man for himself.
Outrageous-Bit-4989@reddit
Never tell anyone you have supplies
EffinBob@reddit
What if you kept it to yourself and didn't worry about it? That's what the other 1% are going to do. Follow their example.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
I'm not in the Netherlands, but it would always be beneficial have have food on hand for 6 months and not need it, versus needing it and not having it.
Unfortunately, we cannot fully prep for those friends or family who will not. Keeping a low profile and having enough to offer some help to immediate family members has always been my goal. I have been able to get my immediate family to prepare somewhat, but not to the 6 month level. They are probably at a 2 month period.