Apparently Bulgaria expressed interest to join the alliance. What is your opinion on it and the alliance in general?

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Didn't serbians kill civilian albanians in Kosovo aka ethnic cleansing?

Albanians killed Serbs in Kosovo too, aka ethnic cleansing.

Kosovo will never again be serbian, and why would you want it to be? Wouldn't fixing corruption be the bigger goal?

I'm glad you've made your mind up, but that's up to Serbia.

Although NATO said it would intervene and I personally don't believe in a Balkan war it's still evil around.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

If Bulgaria join it has history to align with Croatia and Albanians.

Romania if it's past time will align with Serbia. But it's NATO.

Neither Romania nor Bulgaria would take part in an active, hot conflict with or against Serbia.

This alliance in Balkans is because Serbia's hegemony threats eventual incidents in many countries and unresolved issues with Kosovo and Bosnia.

Do you know what hegemony means? The only hegemon in the Balkans is NATO, i.e. mainly the US.

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

What have you to invade Bosnia or Kosovo? 90s are over Belgrade's hegemony isnlong gone when it ruled from Slovenia to Greece.

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uuuuh_hi@reddit

Serbia didn't rule, Yugoslavia did

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Thanks for re-iterating my point and contradicting yourself. You're doing great.

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I only thought Romania will choose Serbia maybe instead of Hungary or Bulgaria if this was other era to be in alliance.

If push comes to shove, yes. I think România would align with Serbia over Hungary. But modern relations with Hungary are fine. Orban invests heavily in Romanian towns with sizeable Hungarian populations. We didn't ask for the investment. He just did it lmao. And the number of Hungarians in Romania is dwindling. So pragmatically, Romania has nothing against Hungary as we don't see them as a real threat at the moment.

Bulgaria and România are cool with each other.

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

Yes but you were also aligned in ww1 like Serbia and against Hungary and Bulgaria as your neighbours.

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ZizeksSpit@reddit

Sure.... But Romania back then was a bit bigger than half the size it is now and only joined WW1 because of territorial ambitions, not because of any Serbian friendship or solidarity or whatever would align it with Serbia nowadays

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

Today which side will you choose? Serbia is neutral and has very strong Russian sentiment there unlike every other Balkan country.

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ZizeksSpit@reddit

Well Hungary and Bulgaria are both in the EU and NATO with us, there isn't something even comparable Serbia has to offer.

I guess if one of them is the aggressor I wouldn't support that.

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Stelist_Knicks@reddit

It depends what the context is. If Serbia frames itself as an anti Hungarian chauvinist nation and Orban is trying to annex Vojvodina. I'll bet my house Romania will side with Serbia.

But that is a long shot. Hungary doesn't have the military to pursue any sort of territorial goals and I doubt the population has the willpower.

So, in today's context. I anticipate neutrality. Unless some nation in the Balkans is going Wild and trying to annex Serbia all together. And even them I would expect Romania only to help logistically and not militarily.

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wisdomHungry@reddit

Most of them are loyal to orban and that is why he invests in romania. I don t think this is great news because most of them wanted to vote georgescu, on election day second round.

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Stelist_Knicks@reddit

georgescu, on election day second round.

Romanian electorate doesn't make sense.

Georgescu is simultaneously the nationalist pick. While also being the pick for Hungarian voters???

What???

Any nationalist worth their salt does not like Russia in Romania. The history is too strong. That should already disqualify georgescu.

But also, his nationalist rhetoric should be scaring off Hungarians even more LMAO.

Any-Consideration470@reddit

You’re a Romanian, this pact is obviously going to look “Anti Serbian” to you when this pact is literally for the sake of Kosovo’s protection against a agressor.

And if my memory serves me right, it wasn’t the Croatians nor the Albanians that declared war on multiple ethnicities in the 90s.

If me lifting my hands up and blocking punches to the face by someone called ‘Steven’ makes me look “Anti Steven” then I would think of that person who made that statement (you) as a retard.

But like I said, you’re a Romanian, you won’t listen to my words, my words would enter one of your ears and exit on the other. No matter how hard you try to explain to a Romanian the misdeeds of the Serbian government, they without a doubt won’t stop and listen but will start explaining why they are bro’s and go on a frenzy of dick sucking and glazing.

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Few_Orchid_7797@reddit

This must be the stupidest shit I have ever seen, and I am including all crap that happened in the last 5 years

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CroGamer002@reddit

It's more anti-Orban and Serbia happens to be in Orban axis.

The fourth criteria of Montevideo that states: The capacity to enter into relations with other states. Ant this is is quite a gray area since it can enter into relations with only half of the internationally recognized countries by the UN... Which is the only most widely recognized international organization.

As much as people want, Kosovo does not have the same seat on the table as the other "real" countries. It is a country as much as Abkhazia is or Osetia which by your definitions are also countries?

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NoInfluence5747@reddit

I mean you agree it is a gray area and then proceed to give this the black and white treatment. Some countries can enter into more relations than others, are they more states than the others? Is Syria not a state? Is Israel not a state because 30 countries don't recognize it? Is China not a country because 12 countries don't recognize it?

I understand that there is not much of Serbia left there except people, but that's exactly my point, it was illegally annexed from Serbia and now after so many years there is nothing left except a handful of people. It seems though that based on all of that Serbs were ethnically cleansed, not the other way around, wouldn't you say?

Kosovo is a part of Serbia, the independence is an illegal act and in violation with UN and international law, everyone knows that, even the countries who supported the independence of Kosovo (including and mostly US) know that, it's just that their interests aligned with the independence, you have to understand that. Am I saying people who live there now need to leave or need to be ethnically cleansed? No - I'm saying that you can't just take a piece of another country and call it yours, can you imagine if that happened everywhere, how the world would look like?

Anyhow, you have nothing to be proud of, it's a stolen piece of land and no future can be built on it.

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big_cat112@reddit

We've been living on this land for centuries.Kosovo was always a burden for Serbia ever since 1912 when they illegally annexed it and brought Serb colonizers here from other parts of Yugoslavia.Maybe they shouldn't have revoked our autonomy and closed our schools and remove us from our jobs and launch a massive ethnic cleansing campaign with 1.5 million refugees.Serbs left themselves after the war because those traitors were afraid to face albanians when they came, they killed their own Albanian neighbors.

As a Bulgarian, I very much hope this is not true.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t particularly like (to put it mildly) the Serbians but we live in the XXI and civilized countries solve their issues through negotiations. And no matter how defensive this alliance is promoted to be, it does look ominous.

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SensitiveRepublic129@reddit

Don't worry man, after two back stabbings, we don't like you either! 🤣

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rintzscar@reddit

Serbs backstabbed Bulgaria the first and second time. We were allies during Ottoman times, then you attacked unprovoked in 1885. Then we were allies again during the First Balkan War, but you reneged on your commitments and kept a territory which you promised to Bulgaria. From then on, you were an enemy, not an ally at all.

No idea how your entire nation can sit there and say with a straight face that the opponent was the backstabber. Propaganda at its finest.

There is a reason almost all your neighbours fear and/or dislike your country.

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EatingSolidBricks@reddit

The true balkan war is in the comments

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Sellena__@reddit

Zaboravio si samo da ni Bugarski ni Albaniju ne vole zemlje sa kojima se graniče. Mora da ima razloga i za to. Lako je voleti se na daljinu.

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rintzscar@reddit

That's complete nonsense. Bulgaria has excellent relations with Greece's Romania and Turkey.

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Sellena__@reddit

I Srbija ima sjajne odnose sa Makedonijom, Madjarskom, Rumunijom, Crnom Gorom, polovinom BiH, i sa vama smo ok. Čak ni sa Albanijom nikad nismo ratovali, već smo sa njom i Makedonijom u Open Balkanu. Tako da, ono, glupa, ti je priča.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

We were allies during Ottoman times, then you attacked unprovoked in 1885.

The war of King Milan was not supported by the people, or even the king's closest officials, all of whom were unaware of the planned attack. The war ended after just 14 days(!). Using a 14-day war as an excuse 150 years later, is crazy.

Then we were allies again during the First Balkan War, but you reneged on your commitments and kept a territory which you promised to Bulgaria.

Wrong.

The initial agreement between the Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia was that everyone keeps what they can take.
Bulgaria, laying claim to land that Greece also claimed, went behind Greece's back to forge a covert agreement with Serbia, wherein Serbia supports Bulgaria's actions in Macedonia. That way, the Bulgarian army can grab as much land in the South before Greece would have the chance too, and would support Serbia's territorial claims.
Bulgaria didn't respect the terms of the agreement, as they didn't provide the 100k troops to Vardar Macedonia as promised, instead racing to claim Thessaloniki and even Constantinople, which Russia had already warned them not to do. Both attempts were unsuccessful.
Not only did Bulgaria not deploy the troops agreed on to Vardar Macedonia, but Serbia also had to deploy 50k troops to Adrianople on Bulgaria's front to avoid a Bulgarian defeat, something that Serbia did not agree upon in the pre-war agreement. Bulgaria then tried to downplay and fully censor Serbia's role in the siege of Adrianople.
Following the end of the war, Bulgaria refused to support Serbia's claim on the Adriatic as was part of the pre-war agreement, once again, not respecting the terms of the agreement.

No idea how your entire nation can sit there and say with a straight face that the opponent was the backstabber. Propaganda at its finest.

Disagree.

There is a reason almost all your neighbours fear and/or dislike your country.

We have eight neighbors, and we have less than ideal relations with two of them, or perhaps three depending on how you look at it. We have good relations with Hungary, Romania, Montenegro, NMKD and Bulgaria (not counting nationalists stuck in a 14-day war that happened 150 years ago).

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ivom53@reddit

Well, you could say that about any war. Is it true that Serbia attacked Bulgaria in 1885? Yes, it is true.

You are not completely in the right about the First Balkan War either. There Were initial agreements and they were not under the table. If there weren't, Bulgaria wouldn't have been fighting next to Istanbul, but would rather stick to Macedonia, which was the only thing that it wanted. The problem was that Serbia was promised the north of Albania and Austria-Hungary didn't allowed Serbia to take it - they wanted Independent Albania. So, instead, Serbia took a part of Macedonia that was agreed to be in Bulgaria. As a result, because of the Great Powers, everyone was unhappy and went to a second war. Also, I don't think Bulgarians and Serbians are in bad relations nowadays. Still, I think they could be much better.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Well, you could say that about any war. Is it true that Serbia attacked Bulgaria in 1885? Yes, it is true.

Yes, of course Serbia attacked Bulgaria in 1885, that is not the important part. The question is why every single Bulgarian I have ever arged with mentions the war of 1885, 150 years later, when it was a decisive Bulgarian victory in a 14-day war? Because it serves to justify anti-Serbian rhetoric, while Serbs don't have any dislike for Bulgarians.

This is even more egregious when you take into consideration the genocidal crimes committed by Bulgaria in WW1 and WW2. The Surdulica massacre of 2000-3000 Serb civilians alone is 4x-6x the amount of military casualties Bulgaria suffered in 1885.

You are not completely in the right about the First Balkan War either.

You're retelling the standard Bulgarian narrative, which would hold water if it weren't for the fact that Bulgaria had already gravely disrepected the agreement, rendering it void.

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ivom53@reddit

We love to mention the war of 1885 only because we get called backstabbers and want to show that history isn't simple, as Serbia backstabbed us first. Your argument that Serbians did not support that war was not very fair and I'll give you an example: Bulgarians do not support our getting involved with Kosovo nowadays, but we would still get involved if our stupid politicians decide so. So, it is not really about what the people want: Bulgarians would want to eat pleskavica and listen to Ceca, but instead rumors that we are joining some strange aliance begin.

I didn't want to comment on the massacres, because they happened on both sides. One of the reasons for the second balkan war were the terror and attacks on Macedonian Bulgarians in 1913 by the Serbian organization Crna ruka. I am sure that all Balkan nations have had their fair share of violence on civilians, so it's really not productive to repeat it.

I am not sure what our discussion is about, as I am sure we both know history pretty well and can agree that any violence have left everyone in the Balkans weaker and it would be a grave mistake to repeat any parts of our history.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

We love to mention the war of 1885 only because we get called backstabbers and want to show that history isn't simple, as Serbia backstabbed us first.

Right, but the war was a 14-day breeze for the Bulgarians, which you'd think Bulgarians would be over 150 years later. Instead, I feel like it's used to justify Bulgaria attacking Serbia three times(!) over the next 70 years and committing heinous crimes.

I didn't want to comment on the massacres, because they happened on both sides. One of the reasons for the second balkan war were the terror and attacks on Macedonian Bulgarians in 1913 by the Serbian organization Crna ruka.

You're probably thinking of the Serbian Chetnik Organization, but you seem to have the wrong idea of what the organization was about. It was founded in 1902 to protect Christians in Ottoman Macedonia, and initially pursued cooperation with Bulgarians, which was declined. The Bulgarians, on the other hand, organized the IMRO and the not so discreet Society Against Serbs under Dame Gruev (IMRO founder and leader) whose aim it was to exterminate Serbs anywhere in Macedonia, and later in Eastern Serbia.

The Chetniks acted defensively, defending the Serbian community in Macedonia, while Bulgarians and Greeks were busy slaughtering each other. Both the Ottoman government and Western powers agreed that the SCO didn't commit crimes against civilians in Macedonia, fighting only defensively against Bulgarians who were on the offensive.

Later, Serbia did pursue a policy of Serbianization once Macedonia was under Serbian rule, but I think it'd be good to read more about the period leading up to that.

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ivom53@reddit

Well, you could say that about anything. It was just a breeze, it wasn't that serious, but the conditions, under which it occurred, are actually key to why it is so important to us. It happened right after our National Unification, one of the greatest things that happened to Bulgaria since its Establishment. Since we claimed East Rumelia from the Ottoman Empire, our army expected an attack from them. Instead, we got attacked (literally) in the back by our brothers, the Serbs. That's why we still remember it, it happened in a very key moment without any reason.

About the Balkan wars, it was not the chetniks, it was the Serbian army conducting these attacks. You can read here on this page about what they did to the teachers and priests: https://archive.org/details/reportofinternat00inteuoft/page/52/mode/2up

I am referencing the specific page, but the whole book is very interesting.

More recently, there were mass killings of Bulgarians in Yugoslavia after the Tito Stalin split. All Bulgarian students who were in Yugoslavia at that time (there were lots, because at the time Bulgaria was on the way to become part of Yugoslavia) were sent to camps, usually killed in there.

But these are not really things that anyone in Bulgaria (except maybe some bookworms) holds against the Serbs. The only reason a normal Bulgarian would be against Serbs would be what happened to Macedonia. At the end of the day, you haven't lost any territory because of us, and we have lost a lot of people and their territory due to Serbian actions. So, that would be the only thing an average Bulgarian would probably consider. I am not saying that it's a large part of the population, in fact most people like Serbs, but you can still hear it here and there.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Well, you could say that about anything. It was just a breeze, it wasn't that serious, but the conditions, under which it occurred, are actually key to why it is so important to us. It happened right after our National Unification, one of the greatest things that happened to Bulgaria since its Establishment. Since we claimed East Rumelia from the Ottoman Empire, our army expected an attack from them. Instead, we got attacked (literally) in the back by our brothers, the Serbs. That's why we still remember it, it happened in a very key moment without any reason.

I get your point, but in context, the 1885 is a far cry from the bloodbath that were the consequent attacks on Serbia.

About the Balkan wars, it was not the chetniks, it was the Serbian army conducting these attacks. You can read here on this page about what they did to the teachers and priests:

Right, the Balkan Wars were a mess for sure. It's sad that there was an all-out war for ethnic dominance in Macedonia between the three.

That said, IMRO and other Bulgarian organization resorted to straight up eradication of Serbs, while this page doesn't mention anyone being killed whatsoever. Compare that to what the Bulgarian occupation in Serbia looked like.

More recently, there were mass killings of Bulgarians in Yugoslavia after the Tito Stalin split. All Bulgarian students who were in Yugoslavia at that time (there were lots, because at the time Bulgaria was on the way to become part of Yugoslavia) were sent to camps, usually killed in there.

That's nothing that I have ever heard of. Do you have any sources on this?

But these are not really things that anyone in Bulgaria (except maybe some bookworms) holds against the Serbs. The only reason a normal Bulgarian would be against Serbs would be what happened to Macedonia. At the end of the day, you haven't lost any territory because of us, and we have lost a lot of people and their territory due to Serbian actions. So, that would be the only thing an average Bulgarian would probably consider.

Well, Macedonia had more than just Bulgarian elements. Even in the agreement between Serbia and Bulgaria ahead of the Balkan Wars, Serbia was only supposed to give Bulgaria about half of Macedonia, that is, anything East of the Ohrid-Kriva Palanka line.

I am not saying that it's a large part of the population, in fact most people like Serbs, but you can still hear it here and there.

I was under the impression that Bulgarians were generally positively inclined toward us, until I started interacting with them online. While it's not the best of indicators, I see more poisonous rhetoric here than positive, by a long shot.

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ivom53@reddit

About the 1885 war, yes, it might have been a smaller war, but violence leads to more violence. Same with the oppression and torture during the Balkan wars. There were many rebellions such as the Ohrid and Tikves rebellion where over 1000 Bulgarians were killed.

The problem is that everyone sees the last action by the other and tries to take revenge by multiplying it. Keep in mind that for Bulgarians Macedonia was a very key region, several Bulgarian capitals have been there, and also one of the first medieval universities - the one in Ohrid. You could say that it is as sensitive as Kosovo is to the Serbian people, only the majority was Bulgarian (there were of course other people, there are still 35% Albanians today, although they were about 20% back then). Keeping in mind that 100 years later Bulgarians are still sensitive about the subject, one can only imagine what this meant for people back then. This was the reason for the Second Balkan war, the First world war and the Second World war (but much less).

About the Yugoslav period, you can read about Krvaviot Bozik. Also, I read a book by Blagorodna Bozhinova called Жертвено поколение, which is biographical and she tells about her experience in Gerovo, a camp in Croatia.

Thats duality of men for you

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_-Event-Horizon-_@reddit

gif

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itisiminekikurac@reddit

That's Bulgarians for you ^/s

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ivom53@reddit

That's why we are so similar. We always start talking about bullshit no one remembers

I don’t particularly like (to put it mildly) the Serbians

AmountExotic2870@reddit

delusions of grandeur

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No-Writing-68@reddit

Nah

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AmountExotic2870@reddit

you currently have a corrupt, fascist, dictator as president… you would figure you would dislike fascism 😭😂😂😂

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No-Writing-68@reddit

We are bringing him down brother.

We dislike fascism mostly bcs of Ww2

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You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of international law. Of course Serbia has the right to decide who they recognize, as does any sovereign country. You'll be surprised to find out there's about 100 more countries that have the same stance.

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yeah yeah buddy, please lecture us on irredentism LMAO

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AgreeableBagy@reddit

but we live in the XXI century and civilized countries solve their issues through negotiations.

Ah to be this naive

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Public_Squash5001@reddit

dont get me wrong bro, but when was the last time exactly that negotiations worked out in Balkans?

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Gullible-Orange-6337@reddit

Theodore Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick"

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Lmao

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Bozzenheim@reddit

Not sure even Bulgaria's government knows the answer to that one unfortunately

gif

Yeah after some thinking Macedonia doesn't fit, while it's neighbors are eying it lustfully, the tradition is for a based gang bang, against someone relatively strong..

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Secret_Photograph364@reddit

We could call it….yugoslavia 2, electric boogaloo

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hole2score@reddit

That's such a tired rhetoric, anyone I don't agree with is a Putin agent

Orban is an idiot, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, and where Orban is right is that we shouldn't have shat in Russia's front lawn, and the sanctions only hurt Europe

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Domeee123@reddit

Why the fuck would Orbán support Dodik like he does now, he sent his "personal" army to rescue his ass if things go south, not even his US allies support him in this question, and do not even talk about all the other weird thing he does that only serves Russian interests.

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hole2score@reddit

This is just common nationalist/fascist tactics, he does not want another Brussles supporter in his neighborhood, he wants more AfD and Fratelli d'Italiana around him, and Dodik is that

The popularity of such parties is the fault of EU decisions over the last decade, and they are doubling down on those

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Icy-Excuse-453@reddit

How is Croatia a threat? There wont be people in Croatia in 20 years.

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Topias12@reddit

USA is a pro Orban government right now, are you planning to defend against them ?

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Mr_Meeeseks@reddit

That is actually kinda happening on the EU front if I am not mistaken.

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StellarAoMing@reddit

You Croats are done when that mighty coalition set sites on your shores. 😁

All we think of whole day, every day, is how to get Croats under our "wise" rule. /s

Or Croatia without Croats... Oh, wait, you already have Croatia without Croats... Even without Serbs... Some Nepalese...

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Imaginary_String_814@reddit

So Croatia thinks there is a possibility that Hungary invades Croatia togheter with Serbia ? You are aware that Croatia and Hungary are both members of an actual military alliance and the european union. comical

Yes I understand why but theyre just parading themselves for their autistic voters. (Serbian here)

But it did. Ironic that you are unfoundedly accusing me of revisionism while you are persistently omitting facts which don't fit your narrative. Even the court of arbitration stated that Slovenia was in violation of the agreement.. (https://www.rtvslo.si/news-in-english/court-of-arbitration-to-define-border-between-slovenia-and-croatia/397118)

Even though the tribunal said that it can still carry on, one of the parties (Croatia) didn't agree and, rightfully and in accordance with international law, exited the agreement after it was breeched.

So stop lying and take a chill pill.

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vijolica18@reddit

You are lying, the only country that thinks so is Croatia, because the international court did not accept their fascist demands!

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vkreso@reddit

I guess you're a kid. That can be the only explanation for such dumb reactions.

What demands are you talking about? You are making no sense at all. I literally gave a Slovenian source which states that Slovenia was indeed in breech of the agreement. So how the hell am I lying?

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vijolica18@reddit

It doesn't say that in the article.

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vkreso@reddit

"The conversations between an arbitrator and an agent are a violation of the Arbitration Agreement, ..."

You can look up the partial award of the Tribunal yourself and since you are being extremely bad faith, I'm done talking with you!

Take care

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vijolica18@reddit

Only Croatia claims that Slovenia has failed to comply with the arbitration award. In contrast, the majority of international legal experts and institutions agree that Slovenia has acted in accordance with its obligations under international law. These experts maintain that the arbitration award is final and binding, and that Slovenia's implementation of the decision adheres to established legal principles, while Croatia’s position is viewed as a unilateral interpretation that undermines the award's legitimacy.

All international lawyers are unanimous, only you and Croatia disagree. Because you are clowns.

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vkreso@reddit

I literally quoted the news article I posted which states the Tribunals ruling that Slovenia was indeed in violation and you just brush it off lol. Who's the clown then?

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vijolica18@reddit

No, the arbitration tribunal never said that Slovenia failed to comply with the rules in a way that would invalidate the arbitration proceedings or the award.

When Croatia claimed that Slovenia, through the communication between arbitrator Jernej Sekolc and agent Simona Drenik, had significantly violated the rules, the arbitration tribunal merely ruled that this did not affect the impartiality of the proceedings. Therefore, it replaced the arbitrator and continued the proceedings, determining that Slovenia had not committed such a severe violation as to render the arbitration invalid.

This means that, from a legal standpoint, the international tribunal ruled that the arbitration award remains valid and binding, regardless of the Croatian claims.

The International Court disagrees with you and Croatia!

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vkreso@reddit

Well no. It indeed did say that Slovenia was in violation and I will stop quoting that. You can find the original document and quote it yourself if you don't agree.

It also did say that such violation wasn't enough to be considered significant enough for it to stop the proceedings as you correctly state and as I've already stated before. However, the court is not competent to give such a decision.

The arbitration is an ad hoc court created exclusively by an agreement between Slovenia and Croatia. When that agreement was violated by Slovenia, the Croatian side had full rights in accordance with the quoted Vienna convention, to end that agreement and with it end its participation in the arbitration.

And this is the crux. This is an AD HOC arbitral court. It is not the International Court as you falsly claim because if it was, it wouldn't be able to rule in Slovenias favor beacuse of the already mentioned article 15 of the convention on the law of the seas that you didn't look up. It could only rule if both parties agree that it could. Both parties did agree at first (mostly because of Slovenian blackmail by EU accension), but then the Slovenian side corrupted the process and both parties no longer agreed.

That's the end of the arbitration story. Croatia and Slovenia will have to agree on a bilateral resolution which is accepted with both parties.

No more bullying, no more extortion, no more bad faith and immoral and unethical unilateral actions. Deal with it.

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vijolica18@reddit

An international neutral court is not capable of deciding this, but Croatian politics is? You really are a clown. The neutral side is clear about this, the biased Croatian side has no weight.

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vkreso@reddit

It is an ad hoc arbitral court created by an arbitration agreement, not an international court of justice. Please get your facts straight and stop calling others clowns because they disagree with you - kid.

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vijolica18@reddit

All neutrals agree that Croatia's appeals against the verdict carry no weight. I don't care about the opinion of Croatian biased politicians when all neutral parties disagree with you.

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vkreso@reddit

You don't have to agree. But facts are same for me and you, regardless of your bad faith, names and biases.

vijolica18@reddit

Croatia does not respect international law. Any normal coastal state will have access to the international sea. What you are saying is fascist propaganda and you do not realize it.

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vkreso@reddit

Bro, now I see that I am talking to an idiot or a bot. Article 19. Of the convention on high seas allows the concept of an innocent passage through other territorial waters. There is no legal possibility for Croatia to block access of Slovenia to the the international waters otherwise the big port of Koper wouldn't be possible by definition.

You have some frustrations and problems and you better deal with them in some way since you are currently being very toxic.

Serbian government and Republika Srpska are controlled by Kremlin so i would say it is important to make alliances. United we stand divided we fall.

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

Serbia's isn't, it's an opportunist autocrat populist mafia of politicians that flew from party to party to finally settle in SNS together

they go where the money leads, they've been more inclined towards the EU in the sense of money, they've obviously taken 0 steps to move towards the EU and instead moved away by cementing their power through electoral fraud, corruption, nepotism and organized crime

but that's why they're opportunists, nothing more, nothing less

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Background_Pin6868@reddit

Mafia is Putin is Trump is Orban. They are all about stealing and hiding money and running a show so the public is not looking. They perfectly understand each other. Even the wars are just a show for them.

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AchillesDeal@reddit

What does any Serbian president do here, seriously?

You cannot join EU without recognising Kosovo

You cannot recognise Kosovo without the population crucifying you.

You are mostly fucked and fucked.

Everything else that has been mentioned about the govt is the result of the immense political both external and internal pressure. You are fucked. Full stop.

But man, the students really think something can change? Yeah we can sell the entire land of the country to the west, and they can slave away for the gains of an american who bombed them 20 years prior.

Most of my friends living in Serbia live like there is no tomorrow, because there isn't for them. Any break out of war, and they are all dead, trapped in the middle of NATO. It will be terrible.

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

Personally I don't think it's that hopeless, the current protests already brought change, the sole problem is that it's not just change that we need but to unweave 13 years of bullshit

Selling out the land isn't an option, that's what Vucic has been doing to get good boy points and some extra money for his corruption pyramid scheme, hell the students are pissing on the government doing that as is the entire nation (especially when it comes to the lithium mine)

In regards to the EU, Kosovo is a hard question yeah, but we're so far off from even having that conversation that it's not even funny

We've barely implemented ANY EU changes from like 20 points, we got denied from SEPA due to lack of proper anti-money laundering and anti-corruption

Imo the bigger problem right now in regards to the EU is that in the last 4 months, it might as well have cemented itself as an enemy of the Serbian people and an ally of Vucic, any time they're brought up there's no actions and at best there's some "harsh words", hell their MP's from Croatia had to literally force the EU to even talk on what the hell is going on in Serbia aside from wanting to open up a lithium mine

Not to mention that during the protests Germany released a literal propaganda movie that refers to serbians as lower russians or whatever the fuck, as literal morons, and then refused to listen to critics that came to tell them that the movie is full of shit and is going to be received as a terrible message from the Serbian people

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AchillesDeal@reddit

What do you think is really going on behind the scenes?

Do you see how everyone is trying to grab some of the minerals from Ukraine? This is a big deal for the big economies. They need the rare earth materials to make sure they can keep winning the AI/Robotics races. Everyone in between will bend to their will.

While they found these minerals in the jadar region, I honestly wonder if "other economies" are pressuring the govt behind the scenes to make a deal or else...... Wouldn't be the first time the CIA has done a coup/regime change via student grassroot movements for the instatement of a govt that will pull the trigger on a deal.

Conspiracy aside, I think Vucic is as good as we gonna get. A president who is too good for the Serbian people will probably lead us into conflict within the region

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incorrec7@reddit

Interesting observation and question. Let me ask you something as well.

Why did you mention serbia? why not North macedonia or hungary?

See, there is an answer in your question.

Also, i guess serbian propaganda is doing its job since everyone is talking about alliance which is far from truth. Its just economic and military interest. Its not like croatia will defend albania/kosovo or vice versa. These arragments are so common in todays world, croatia has multiple similar arragements, including hungary and other countries in its surroundings.

And last thing. I dont understand why serbia is saying anything. We didnt ask them, we dont need their opinion, nor we care what they think. I dont see us telling them what to do although our and theirs current political and economic position suggest we should/could. But, we just dont care and we would like to have same from their side.

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buteljak@reddit

Pretty sure this is for military goods trade and military education that one can provide to other. Not to join forces if one falls under attack. Not sure how necessary or what can we offer to one another as we have barely any military power in any sense.

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Ribbon7@reddit

It is more due business nature, buying equipment from eachother and training, we already have that with Slovenia, Montenegro, Hungary on more frequent note under NATO collaboration. We all have our countries it it cant go quite wrong like exYu and i think collaboration is good and should be expanded to include Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Slovenia, Greece, Rumunia. Balakan pact, apes stronk together haha

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EdliA@reddit

Unpredictable would be the better word

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Admirable-Bluejay-34@reddit

A few things to consider IMO

Trump in office - his lax policy to Russia and anti NATOism could serve to emboden Serbia.
Protests in Serbia — the classic neighbouring scapegoats could serve as perfect fuel to shift attention away from issues at home.

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

you guys should really follow the protests a bit more or ask on r/askserbia just how tense the situation is

vucic has already tried to scapegoat kosovo, then rs, then vojvodina, then rs again through dodik

there's nothing left for him to do on that front, the only thing he has left in his arsenal against the protests is violence, he's played all his other cards and even violence has failed him so far

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-Koltira-@reddit

We punch above our weight

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Throwaway-82726@reddit

Are you too young to remember??!?

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Possible-Pangolin462@reddit

yes the more the merrier! and this time let‘s put our egos back fellas!

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countbogdan@reddit

Romania stands with Serbia.

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-Koltira-@reddit

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Go f off. I personally faught NATO soldiers in 1999 on the border between Serbia and Albania. NATO didn't have balls to enter full force, and their bombing record was abysmal, except if you count destroying civilian infrastructure. Most of military gear was intact.

In any case, Albanian terrorists were kicked out of Kosovo 100%. In fact regular Yugoslav Army didn't loose a single battle throughout 90s. Cowardly surrender by our politicians is another story.

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godsGiftforWomen@reddit

You didn't lose a single battle in 90s, you were just running away on tractors from Croatian army. If you run away you can't lose.

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Protonautics@reddit

That was not a regular Yugoslav (at that time = Serbian) army. These were badly armed irregulars and civilians. That episode falls under cowardly treason and surrender by Serbian politicians.

Croatia showed grear bravery slaughtering civilians, as many times in history. I guess they're preparing for another brave military action against elderly and children.

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godsGiftforWomen@reddit

gif

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SecretRaspberry9955@reddit

loose

Protonautics@reddit

LOL. Keep dreaming.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Bosnia defended against fkin JNA equipment against serbs with literally bare hands

lmfao

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PresentProposal7953@reddit

I mean Serbia did it once why dotn you think they'll do it again

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Kras_08@reddit

What I am scared is that NATO will sell us out to Turkiye so that Erdogan can pull an SMO like Russia and annex Kardzhali. I mean Turkey is much more valuable to NATO than us so why wouldn't they? If this makes us a bit more safer then I'd love it.

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Organization_Dapper@reddit

unpopularthinker@reddit

NATO from temu

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kryten_69@reddit

NATO is only an idea in my opinion. Hungary? Turkey? Can you count on them? If an all out war takes place, be sure that every country will look out for themself, we can only unite if US forces us to do so as a leader of NATO.

But how things are looking in the world, Europe is on its own, and we were never united, only at peace for 70 years.

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Arminius001@reddit

Idk about Hungary but I believe Turkey would defintely join, they applied to become the most foreign deployed troops in KFOR in Kosovo and they have also have become the top supplier of weapons to Kosovo recently.

Also I dont think anyone is going to mess with NATO, Russia couldve easily taken the Baltics but didnt because of NATO, China could take Taiwan although it would be a hard fought battle, but they dont because of NATO.

Ironically as it sounds having NATO around makes the world more peaceful, I know it sounds crazy with everything going on but by statistics standards we are actually in a very stable and peaceful timeline currently and that has to be attributed to NATO and also nukes

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paumuniz@reddit

Hardly. NATO, supposedly a cold-war era anti-soviet defense pact, has only ever operated POST cold war and in AGGRESSION. Seems ironic to say it contributes to peace in any way.

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kryten_69@reddit

Is it really a fact, and does it really exist?

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Protonautics@reddit

Now that there is a threat of USA going hands off militarily in Europe, siding with Orbans and Putins of the world etc, Albanians have shited their pants that Serbia is coming for what is rightfully ours - Kosovo. Croatians are looking to take a piece of Bosnia in case Bosnia falls appart....

To me this looks like effort to prop Vucic when he is loosing popularity. The alliance itself is meaningless, NATO has offices throughout, so it seems the only angle is PR to bolster him when he is weak. EU, Turkey, US very much support him.

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JRJenss@reddit

Possible...if not probable.

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RichFella13@reddit

No offense to Albania and Kosovo, but they've got nothing to offer in that regard.

That's even better. If you want to increase your relationship with a neighbor it's through mutual activities, even if your neighbor lacks the equipment or skills in some situations.

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JRJenss@reddit

That's besides the point. Albania and Croatia are NATO allies and often train together anyhow. The countries also have great relationship and can cooperate in whichever way they want. Kosovo is under NATO protection with many other countries participating in the KFOR mission. The thing that's odd to me is the timing of this formal agreement, with Bulgaria now probably joining as well. And the other issue I have with it, is the story about this being part of the EU rearmament initiative, is obvious BS. It is clearly about Serbia, and in my opinion, at the most inopportune moment, just as Serbia is finally waking up and turning into a more normal country, so much so in fact that after a long time, they've even achieved a large degree of generational solidarity. That's a truly respectable achievement, given the media control Vučić's regime has in the country. But it doesn't work any longer.

Now, the way we've been supporting the Serbian democratic movement thus far...as citizens, along with our EU MPs, hell..include even our frickin government representatives in the Commission, fighting for Brussels to finally acknowledge what's been happening there...has been the proper way of dealing with the situation, and recognized as such in Serbia. This included staying cool during some really messed up moves by the Serbian regime, not taking the bait...etc.

Of course, turns out it was clearly too much to expect of the HDZ to continue with such smart regional politics because it too, just like SNS in Serbia, always needs some frickin crises and enemies. They couldn't just pass up on such a gift and opportunity to flex, falling right into their lap. That's what I think this is about. Hopefully, most of the pro-democratic Serbia, will see through this and the relations will continue to improve. Isn't that supposed to be the ultimate goal for all of us in this region??

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MLukaCro@reddit (OP)

Yes, this alliance should be a defensive one only.

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DeliveryFun1858@reddit

gif

gif

Serbia

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Any_Cucumber8534@reddit

If there is one statement that I will stand behind ten toes down in my life it's that if the Balkans had somebody like Bismark around the same time we would absolutly be in a different stratosphere as nations, because a Balkan union with a strong and united front would have protected us from so much bullshit. The simmularities between the 10-15 different Germanic states that all fucked and killed eatchother for years being united under a single banner and the Balkans is unbelievable. And look at where Germany is after losing two wars and where the Balkans are.

Everytime I think about the dumbassery and the blood spilled between people who are, let's be real here on the world stage, basically indistinguishable from eatchother I weep.

Sure Tito came close, but his wheeling and dealing sunk the project. And he had no good successors, only closeted nationalists that were still so focused on the "nation-state" model of the late 18th century that it led to the worst geo political disaster of my lifetime.

Our differences make us unique and beautiful. Our similarities make us strong. But the Oligarchs and rich cunts in power want us to forget our shared history, culture and struggle and focus on who fucked the neighbour's goat and who took over a desolate forest 300 years ago.

A union of Balkan nations with good relationships with Turkey, Greece and Romania would be an absolute dream.

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Y5K77G@reddit

”One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans”.

-Otto von Bismarck, 1888.

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South-Host8293@reddit

The alliance is clearly to deter Serbia from attacking its neighbors, so I'm wondering why Bulgaria would be interested in it? Maybe someone from the country could provide some context?

For me if they don't have a strong interest in this I doubt they would actually support the alliance in case of an attack.

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Papamarino2nd@reddit

My guy have you seen the situation over here? I would genuenly be surprised if even 5% of people would go to war for Vucic. Don't worry about us invading anybody anytime soon. Not to mention that our economy would probably fall apart after 12 minutes of sanctions.

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WorldlinessRadiant77@reddit

I think that’s exactly why Bulgaria expressed an interest in joining.

Serbia collapsing is about as close you get to a nightmare scenario for us. It means refugees, cut trade routes, possibly fighting spilling over.

Vucic might try his luck against Kosovo, Albania and Croatia. Bulgaria is about Serbia’s equal though, so it’s a big statement of “Take a flight to Moscow and don’t do anything stupid.”

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GrandviewHive@reddit

Imagine going to Bulgaria as a refugee 🤡

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WorldlinessRadiant77@reddit

Plenty of people do. Russians, Ukrainians and Syrians are the largest groups of immigrants to Bulgaria.

Bulgaria may not be Australia, but it’s a safe country with a labour shortage and a decent standard of living. If you are a Serbian in particular it may also be the closest country to you.

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Stverghame@reddit

What is this schizophrenia

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

It's not annexing Serb enclave in Bosnia might suit his appetites well.

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rintzscar@reddit

Vucic will never attack Albania or Croatia. He might try against Kosovo or even more likely, to simply annex Republika Srpska. Both will probably mean a NATO intervention, even if Trump doesn't agree to it.

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

Serbia is currently in the weakest for of existence. It's army is slow and outdated. They controlled Croatia, Slovenia, MK now they belong in NATO.

The problem is they want to remain a buffer zone for which it serves only Russian interests.

I expect some scenarios as you say more probably in Bosnia than in Kosovo because Serbia is aware there will be no changing of borders and the bargaining of territories in Balkans is done.

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gemcey@reddit

He’s more likely to attack his own people than another country at this point but sure

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South-Host8293@reddit

You're right, I've been following the news intently (by the way, well done to the students for making Vucic tremble!). The thing is, this is exactly the context where these attacks happen unfortunately. Turkey (to Kurdish Syria) and Israel launched their attacks at times their leaders were in very bad spots domestically.

Now Vucic has the exact degree of desperation to unite his people against someone they hate more than Vucic, and with the recent US unreliability, the threat becomes more real and the region has to look for new ways to defend itself.

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

Believe NATO takes the 2nd spot but Vucic is still about 500 times up the scale of hate

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South-Host8293@reddit

Let's hope Vucic doesn't put the hate ranking contest to the test :)

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

He's been doing it for 4 months, and he's ran out of fuel to the point where he came up with fucking Vojvodina separatists

It's all failed

Violence is the only thing he has, and even that has failed him so far

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Rosso@reddit

12 minutes?

I give 10 at best.

If Vucic wants to end like Mussolini or Hitler, he will attack

Tho he may be that stupid

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maksa@reddit

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South-Host8293@reddit

I understand better now, thank you!

About the disdain for the human life part, isolated cases of deaths all around Balkans from corrupt construction and such and no reform follow-up already show that business interests trump human lives.

They just announced the new military uniforms!

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schizoesoteric@reddit

Yes fuck serbia

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Albaaneesi@reddit

Honestly, yes. I support this alliance. And while some might think this is a biased take, the reality is that Serbia poses a serious risk to our region, largely due to deeprooted corruption within its political and institutional systems.

Even if Vucic were to step down, the issue runs far deeper than just leadership. Many branches of Serbia’s government and security have longstanding ties to organized crime and mafia networks and this is widely known by everyone. One example of what happens and it is very tragic when someone tries to challenge that system is the assassination of Zoran Dindic in 2003, a reformist, pro-European Prime Minister who was pushing for real change. He was murdered in broad daylight by people linked to organized crime and rogue security forces.

Until Serbia undergoes real, structural reforms and not just leadership changes, it’s hard to see it as a reliable or stabilizing force in the Balkans. The country's close relationship with Russia only adds to the concern, especially in the current global climate.

As an Albanian, I know some will see this as a biased take and I accept that but honestly, I wish and long for peace and stability in our region. It’s also true that Serbia committed horrific crimes against members of this alliance during the Yugoslav wars and those wounds aren’t easily forgiven or forgotten. But trust me when I take the courage to say this in spite of all that, I hope Serbia finds a way to free itself from the corruption that holds its people back, and that they improve their relationship with the rest of the balkans, so we can all live in peace in the future.

But until then, this alliance is 100% needed. No more living in naivety.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Lots of words to express what it's really about, and that is the fear that the Serbian army will return to Kosovo. Serbia doesn't pose any threats whatsoever to NATO member states Croatia and Albania, and as of right now, that same NATO is protecting Kosovo.

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Albaaneesi@reddit

What on earth are you on about? Thats exactly what I'm stating and that's exactly why this alliance is being formed?

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

You're talking about corruption this corruption that, threat here threat there.

This isn't about corruption, because Serbia's stance on Kosovo is not dependent on Vucic. That is the standpoint of 90%+ of the population.
Serbia isn't a threat to Albania or Croatia, and portraying the conflict between Kosovo and Serbia as affecting the former two in any way is disingenuous and serves to create a narrative.

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Georgy773@reddit

Kosovo will never again be serbian. Accept it.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Kosovo cannot be independent without Serbia's recognition. Accept it.

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Georgy773@reddit

Considering there's almost no serbs left in Kosovo, how would Serbia impose It's power there? Kosovo is practically independent.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Considering there's almost no serbs left in Kosovo, how would Serbia impose It's power there?

As it imposes its power anywhere, using its legal structures. There are plenty non-Serbian places in Serbia, including Albanian-majority ones east of Kosovo. Why would we need Serbs to impose anything when the locals are perfectly able to do that themselves?

Also, there are plenty of Serbs in Kosovo, around 100'000. There are also 200'000 some displaced Serbs in Serbia who had to flee, some of whom would probably return.

Kosovo is practically independent.

Well yes, because NATO is there. That's it.

Which has the source in the Serbian government.

> that I was reminded you guys average 80 IQ.

You using your brain is a shocking concept, Helsrim. Especially talking of IQ with your flair.

>P.S. There is nowhere near 1.6m Albanians in Kosovo.

The result of the census has just been out.

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Aioli_Tough@reddit

As a person who lives in those Albanian-majority places in Serbia :

Our addresses are marked for checking if we cross the border and do not return for two weeks, if we are not at home when the police come, we are removed from the civil registry, barring us from voting, gaining documents or owning land, let alone working, which has been called by the Council of Europe an administrative form of ethnic cleansing.

There is no representation in public institutions, Example : in a municipality with 98% Albanians, the staff of the police is only 48% Albanian, same for the hospital staff, they import doctors from 40km+ just so they don’t have to hire an Albanian.

There is no public investment even though we are one the poorest region, largely due to the Serbian gov. policy of just ignoring us and hoping we migrate away. Because thats the point, you want our land, but you don’t want us.

You do not accept our diplomas from Kosova, while not allowing us to open a university in our towns with programs in Albanian.

Now you're saying Kosova should trade its independence, for all of this discrimination, and the likely outcome that you would attempt colonization.

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Albaaneesi@reddit

Sorry I’m not wasting any time arguing with you.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

What is there to argue? Kosovo can't be independent without Serbia's recognition. That's international law.

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If you read the news you will see how Serbia is not ongoing a modernisation of their army. But you would ask the neighbors who were invaded by that country to sit idly by and do nothing? This response is if anything proportionally.

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BrotherCoa@reddit

Fact? Please, you are not been able to see past your nationalistic bias toward Serbia.

First of all, even is Serbian army is modernized you are all still in NATO. Unless you are saying that NATO cannot defeat modernized Serbian Army. In which case I must ask why it still exists as a relavant organization?

Secondly, Serbia never invaded Albania as you claim above. And if we go by ICJ Serbia never invaded Croatia or Bosnia - that was Yugoslavia. Serbia exists as independent country from 2006 and thus it has not invaded anyone since it's independance. Do not look at me dumbfolded, that is what UN thinks as well.

Thirdly, I have every right to think this alliance could be used as a stage to invade Serbia. After all Albanians always talk about how Presevo valley is theirs and how lands from Nis to Kosovo 'will be claimed again'. Croats already have issues with existing Danube border and they claim entire Bosnia and parts of Macva as their own. And you think that I should dismiss all of that coming from your own people? Yeah right...

Fouth, even if Vucic orders the army to attack either of you - you think that people are going to listen to him? He would be ousted in less than a day as nobody want to go and die in foreign wars anymore. Reason being...

Fifth, Serbs are dying as a nation. Same goes from Albania, Kosovo, Croatia and everyone else around us. Older generations are dying out and modern ones find much less stressful to have a cat than a baby. Serbia now has 6.8 million people at best, by the end of the century it will have half that number. That is without a war.

And after all of this stated above you still think Serbia is a threat? At best it is a 80 year old dying man who is hated for doing something when he was in his 20's. I am all for building preace but if Serbian neighbors are building millitary alliance against Serbia instead of offering hand for prace then it will only result in Serbia building a wall between their nation and everyone else.

viktordachev@reddit

I don't think Bulgarian government it parliament even know about this. Never discussed at least.

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hayek92@reddit

If you take into account also Turkish - Albanian - Macedonian talks of alliance it becomes clear that the main targets are Serbia and Greece.

In other words Germans (via their traditional proxy Croatia) and Turkey (more openly) are bracing for the post US Balkans.

We can expect similar type of alliance between Serbia, Hungary, Republika Srpska, Greece, and Cyprus probably supported by Russia, more softly China and maybe even France to some extent.

US will be the main wildcard here.

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Consistent-Excuse559@reddit

It is obvious what country they want to encircle. Try something and you will have the experience same as in previous wars.

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SquareFroggo@reddit

Is NATO membership not enough for Bulgaria and Croatia? And Bosnia applied for membership.

Or are you worried that NATO won't help you if Serbia starts acting funny?

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FWolf14@reddit

Kosova is not in NATO and Serbia doesn't bother to hide the fact that it wants to invade it in the future. The weakness of the current US leadership has raised questions about the willingness of NATO troops in Kosova to guarantee peace, and that has significantly reduced perceived deterrence to Serbia.

Now it is not in the interests of any Balkan country to see another war in the region. A Serbian invasion of Kosova would most certainly drag Albania into the war and would likely destabilize North Macedonia, and if that happens then RIP peace & FDI for the next 20 years in the entire region,including Croatia.

In my perspective the goal of this alliance is to tell Serbia that invasion is not worth it and prevent war irrespective of what happens with the NATO troops in Kosova. So I see it more as a way to defend Kosova than the other way around. By extension that serves the regional interests for peace and stability.

Either way the military production cooperation will be great for the countries, Albania has already entered the MRAP industry and Kosova is starting the production of ammunition and drones. Exchanging experiences and so on will improve quality and apart from arming the 3 countries, it will give them a better chance to export to western EU markets, which are gonna spend a lot in defense in the upcoming years. It secures peace and generates economic activity - it is a great deal!

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lakiseuznemirio@reddit

NATO‘s future is very much in doubt with Trump as the president of the most powerful country in the world. I think that it is just a matter of time when the US officially step out of NATO.

The European Union can’t be trusted either that it would be willing to intervene in the Balkans as they have to shift their focus towards a potential war with Russia within the next ten years.

Imamo bolje Kosova nego vi 🤣

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Sellena__@reddit

Što se mene tiče, uzmite ga slobodno. Ionako je bilo vaše jedno vreme. Bolje vi, nego Šiptari. 😊

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1g8Y11241r632UOt0@reddit

Šiptari

there's not much he can do besides plan paramilitary attacks that aren't going to do much strategically aside from piss off people and scare someone into coming to the table

he tried using low tier criminals and the radoicic's against the protests on the 15th and even with a super complex plan it still fell apart

all in all not really a nationalist rhetoric just an opportunist populist autocrat

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Mesenterium@reddit

That's pretty accurate

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

yep, honestly they're decent at low tier propaganda as well as making themselves seem a lot more numerous than they are, and then using violence to top it off and to scare you

Literally

People themselves aren't becoming more nationalistic

Tho Vucic is getting into position where I expect him to try to cause a distraction either in Kosovo or RS, probably latter because Dodik is already doing it on his own there

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

He's already tried that, he had to try and do it in Vojvodina as well cause nothing else worked lol, shockingly, it failed

Coming soon

Yugoslavia 2: Literally all of the Balkans except Serbia because they couldn't behave last time

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chordol@reddit

We should all unite in an alliance! Yes everybody in the Balkans. Even Turkey! The Baklava Alliance! But I am not kidding.

We have spilled enough of each others blood. We understand each other in intimate ways only family understands each other. The ugly ways.

It would uplevel our insanity to a whole new level - international!

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Keke_Papaya@reddit

Znao sam da će bugari da udare sa leđa!!!

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Belgrave02@reddit

This seems like an entirely pro Kosovo alliance. I don’t know enough about Bulgarian foreign policy to say why they would care or not though. But it is interesting in the context of nato and alliances in the region. Intra nato alliances can exist, especially if there are concerns about fellow nato members (such as the Franco Greek alliance against Turkey.)

Personally though (and admittedly foolishly optimistically) I’d love to see something like this expand in some capacity to the entire region. Integrating everyone’s defensive industry and capacity (a la France and Germany in the eu for example) could help stabilize and significantly strengthen the region as the world destabilizes. As things are though I doubt this develops into a sort of renewed Balkan league and is more likely to devolve into two or three rivals alliances/camps with maybe some fence sitting countries.

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RemoveAnnual2689@reddit

So Balkan Nazi's 20th century???

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Pure-Spot4369@reddit

they are circling serbia lol

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Brilliant_Package423@reddit

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SalientSalmorejo@reddit

What if it’s to invade northern Greece on multiple fronts!

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malagnjidica@reddit

Serbia is gonna do the same thing as China.

The Ante Markovic's prediction strikes in its full meaning.

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Ovinme@reddit

What was his prediction?

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StratagemCoder@reddit

It was the culumination of the Ante Markovic's speech, as the last PM of SFRYU in 1991. Ante Marković warned that we (SFRYugoslavia) would pay a heavy price for our illusions—with poverty, a loss of moral values, and a future as a distant, forgotten corner of Europe if Carington plan to transform Yugoslavia into a loose confederation of the states would be declined. And it just was happend.

Recent Serbia , as a legal successor state of SFRYU, is going through a sort of omnius prediction because of all the bad decisions that have been made since 1991.

And, at the very end, the territory of recent Serbia will be left there as a hole in the NATO's carpet, a forbidden territory ruled by the Balkan mobs and criminals.

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Miserable_Net694@reddit

The more the merrier (not you s*rbia)

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

aint serbia trying to join this raggedy union, our mil spending is literally greater than the three combined

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SoraMelodiosa@reddit

Same in the 90's where you lost three wars in a row despite having the first move and control over the territory and the whole yugoslav army stockpile, croatia isn't rapidly millitarizing because it doesn't need to anyway

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

We (Serbia) didn't even fight three wars, so you need to brush up on your history. The Serbian army was chilling at home while the Croatian and Bosnian wars raged on, stockpiles included.

Serbia military budget: 1.43B

Croatia Military Budget: 1.31B

Albania military budget: 0.29B

Kosovo military budget: 0.11B

Bulgaria military budget: 2.4B

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Stelist_Knicks@reddit

What about aggregated over the past 5 years? I would've thought Serbia spends more tbh.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

He's off on Serbia's budget by about a billion...

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Stelist_Knicks@reddit

Someone on the internet lied to me?

I'm inconsolable. This is unacceptable.

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Actual numbers, using the most up-to-date statistics I can find:

Serbia: $2,3B (2025)

Croatia: $1,6B (2024)

Albania: 0,4B? (2024)

Kosovo: 0.2B? (2024)

kari497@reddit

Are you invoking the Yugoslavia 3? For that we need Tito 2, we don't have him 😀

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KojaKuqit@reddit

"Aww shit here we go again"

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Z_Ognjen@reddit

brother you are croatian your nation committed genocide against serbia killing and raping thousands no one is saint here neither side and literally every single balkan country is extremely similar when it comes to peoples mentality and behaviour judged by social media maybe just leave them dont follow them if you are disturbed by whatever it disturbs you there but ppl seem sane enough in main serbia sub if thats one of subs you thought of in your comment i dunno

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TheGuy839@reddit

Tbh most Balkan countries are surrounded by countries they were at war against. Hungary, Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Albania, Bosnia, Croatia

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Kooleszar@reddit

gif

Here's one:

https://www.novinite.com/articles/231382/Military+Alliance+Involving+Croatia%2C+Albania%2C+and+Potentially+Bulgaria+Raises+Alarm+in+Serbia

Several_Match_4787@reddit

They all work together to help Vučić and against us all.

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Korin23@reddit

Balkan war 4 Omega Bungalow inc

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shredded_accountant@reddit

Vicic is about five minutes away from inviting the Crimean polite green men to Serbia. Also known as less than 100km from Sofia.

No sh&t we join in, what else are we supposed to do?

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Sokola_Sin@reddit

Yeah, we are totally about to attack NATO Bulgaria with the help of Russia. You sure foiled our genius plans. You better join before it's too late.

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shredded_accountant@reddit

Not Serbs that I am worried about. I'm worried about the russian

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Rosso@reddit

Russia isn't stupid to start a war with NATO

Even NATO without USA is dangerous for Russia, considering how much they are struggling with Ukraine

Now imagine UK+France+Germany

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lakiseuznemirio@reddit

They have been increasingly attacking and destroying infrastructure of European countries and NATO members. Today‘s incident at Heathrow Airport in London is likely done by Russian agents as well. I wouldn’t underestimate the threat from Russia one bit.

Definitivno nije u stanju lol

U stanju su da koriste zastrasivanje, nasilje, oportunizam i propagandu da dodju do svojih ciljeva, ali rat ne verujem

Ne jer verujem da je nasa vojska krs nego jer su ljudi na funkcijama svega apsolutni majmuni i jer su vise ispraksovani u tome da prikazu da ih ima vise, dok ih ima 20x manje

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Simplevice@reddit

Postupci na kosovu podupiru drugacije

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CharacterSherbet7722@reddit

...ja bih pre rekao da potpuno podrzavaju moj komentar obzirom na to kako su se zavrsili

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Simplevice@reddit

Dao bog da si u pravu

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Kaer__Morhen@reddit

Yes we can invade BiH or Kosovo and we'll get bombed into oblivion because the last thing NATO/EU needs right now is another war in Europe

Stay away from media that makes you think like this, needless stress imo

An alliance in Balkans without Turkiye means nothing at all..

120million of population and every single of them are ready to die for their country..

It’s not so much an article 5 you get attacked ima sweep in type of alliance as it is a military cooperation.

These countries are all fairly small population sized compared to global powers they can’t support research of new military arms and tech made in house and can only buy overpriced goods from Allies or neutrals .

But together everyone can pool money to fund military RND to make cheaper in house stuff to better supply each others forces without having to brunt the burden of the $$$ into research and testing standalone

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AnonyKiller@reddit

Funny how when there's something done against Serbia outsiders are surprised and we are like "makes sense"

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Dan13l_N@reddit

I think the intention is clear. European countries will have to increase military spending. So, instead of just buying things, why not join forces locally and make something together? For example, Croatia doesn't manufacture ammunitions, but it produces some firearms and helmets. And so on.

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

How many years till we take over and than decide I didn’t get my share and go at one another tho

The Balkan way.

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Efrayl@reddit

We are trying to overthrow this AH and this absolutely isn't helping because it's sending a message that Serbs are surrounded by enemies. Guess what helps dictators stay in place? Exactly, external threats.

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LyuboUwU@reddit

Based.

you know you're dumb when you think NATO is based

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

Serbia is very weak probably in the weakest position. It controlled six countries during SFRY.

Had strong army until 2010.

It's now crushed from inside and they have to hear this message from outside also.

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zla_ptica_srece@reddit

Tell me how three countries with huge demographic crisis (one of which has the biggest people drain in the world) are strong lol.

Croatia has dropped under 4 million.

Albania has dropped under 3 million.

Bulgaria is hemorrhaging people.

And some people here are jacking off to some idea of a military alliance.

Insane and ridiculous.

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

Leta go back 20 years ago. Bulgaria and Croatia were far weaker they are both NATO now.

Serbia has hegemony history and controls many countries because of traditions and minorities including Bosnia, Kosovo Montenegro.

With it's hegemony status it wants to stay out of NATO and as a buffer zone it's neutral status is danger over others.

Now even Albania has progressed much in economy. It's army is weak but Serbia for example stands no chance with Croatia or Bulgaria.

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zla_ptica_srece@reddit

Lets go back 20 years ago. Bulgaria and Croatia were far weaker they are both NATO now.

We're not living 20 years ago, we're living in the present.

Serbia has hegemony history and controls many countries because of traditions and minorities including Bosnia, Kosovo Montenegro.

With it's hegemony status it wants to stay out of NATO and as a buffer zone it's neutral status is danger over others.

Now even Albania has progressed much in economy. It's army is weak but Serbia for example stands no chance with Croatia or Bulgaria.

Times have changed.

You literally addressed zero points I made. Yes, times have changed and for the worse for every Balkan country regarding demographics. A war in the Balkans would spell the demise of every country involved considering their population.

Who the fuck is Croatia gonna fight with its below 4 million population and the majority of its militarily capable population in Ireland, Germany, Austria, etc?

Y'all have far bigger things to worry about.

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

Croatia has double the economy of Serbia. Bulgaria also.

Those countries changed I think your opinion is from socialist times. If country doesn't change from inside it will be far worse.

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zla_ptica_srece@reddit

Croatia has double the economy of Serbia. Bulgaria also.

Economy doesn't fight wars, people do. Economy provides means for the war but without actual people to do the fighting it it's all in vain. Both Croatia's and Bulgaria's populations are ageing and dropping rapidly. That's the sad truth you don't want to accept for some odd reason, instead you're getting infatuated with some idea of a military alliance. A war would effectively mean the end of you.

Those countries changed I think your opinion is from socialist times. If country doesn't change from inside it will be far worse for everything including demographics.

And how did it work out for your demographic or Bulgaria's? You dropped to below 4 million and are continuing to drop, meanwhile Bulgaria is going through the biggest demographic crisis in the world.

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Arbo96al@reddit

They just bought 12 French-made Rafale fighter jets how is that weak?

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Aggressive_Limit2448@reddit

Bulgaria is also strong and they have no chance against them also NATO.

Croatia is very strong. It dettered Serbia in the 90s although with US help but also alone.

Albania army is weak but in this coalition gains very strong position.

Also Russian army cannot reach Russia. Their problem is inside their president is under huge pressure.

For Kosovo I believe it will be settled according to the agreed framework in future and no war will happen.

COOLSICKAWESOME1@reddit

it would be stupid and would end the same way it did in the past but i support being prepared to minimize any casualties that might come from them and hell even romania with how things are going could go insane lmfao

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DartVejder@reddit

If this is meant to be an anti-Serbia alliance, then I don't understand why do these countries even bother doing it.

https://n1info.rs/vesti/bugarska-rezolucija-o-srebrenici-glasanje/

Bulgarian prime minister demanded for their UN embassy not to vote for UN resolution on Srebrenica (anti serbian resolution). If they dont have concensus of that thing. There is no chance they will go into military alliance against Serbia

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