Do you have to pay for EMERGENCY surgeries?

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high_on_acrylic@reddit

Yeaaah you’re still liable for all costs

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Federal_Selection884@reddit (OP)

seriously? thats so stupid wth

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FlamingoWalrus89@reddit

My sister called my dad to drive her to the hospital when she was having a stroke. I mean, she didn't know at the time, but her arm and leg went completely numb and she couldn't move that side of her body. So, first thought? Call Dad to drive her to the hospital! Didn't even cross her mind to call an ambulance.

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jules083@reddit

To be fair to her it's natural to call a loved one, and a car is probably faster than an ambulance. My dad sliced his hand open with a chainsaw back in the 70's and the first thing he did was get in the truck and drive to his mom's house, then she wrapped it and drove him to the hospital.

He had excellent medical insurance at the time, it wasn't a money thing. He just knew hurt=find mom.

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curiousleen@reddit

Yeah… and while that is terrible… you then get admitted to the hospital where they will overcharge for absolutely everything. One dose of Tylenol administered by the hospital will cost more than a bottle. Far too much in America is based on profit and greed. It’s only getting worse, with the greediest, most unscrupulous in charge.

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_ella_mayo_@reddit

The last time I was in the hospital I asked them to stop giving me morphine because it was not helping and I didn't wanna pay for it if it wasn't going to help. They gave me 2 shots after that. I didn't have insurance so I was pissed. Especially since on top of it they didn't take my pain seriously and seemed annoyed I was in pain at all.

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FlamingoWalrus89@reddit

It's so annoying how there's no transparency with costs. When I take my dog to the vet, they have to tell me the price and ask if it's ok to proceed ("this blood test can tell us if the rash is due to low platelets, it's $30, plus $12 blood draw fee. Do you agree for us to do the test?").

It's even more stupid when you look at how health-insurance works. You can reduce your cost if you have insurance, but it's expensive. Even with indurance, there's still a "deductible", which is an amount you pay out of pocket before insurance covers anything (usually $2000 for the "good plans" or $10,000 for the budget plans, and it resets annually, so if you have a chronic condition, good fucking luck). There are also co-pays (a small amount you pay for doctor's visits and prescriptions) and the insurance company has to pre-approve any work, which they frequently deny. There's a bit of a scandal here now about pre-approvals, but it's not a big enough story.

Also, nearly all of us (over 80% now) want to switch to a universal care system (like real countries have) but our politicians (even the "good ones") are bought and paid for by the industry so they've been stonewalling progress for decades.

It's bad here now. It's real bad, and it's only getting worse.

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Toriat5144@reddit

There are others who want to keep our system, such as unions and those having good heath plans. What about the Canadians who wait for a knee replacement? Some come over the border to get faster health care.

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yourlittlebirdie@reddit

Even if you get shot in a mass shooting, you still have to pay. How American is that?

It makes way more sense when you consider that you probably haven't bribed any congressman at all, so the law isn't made to help you.

(If the law was supposed to help the general public, this would be very, very stupid)

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FlamingoWalrus89@reddit

I mean, yeah, people decline necessary care all the time due to costs. People avoid going to the doctor and avoid using an ambulance if they can. It happens all the time where someone is stable enough and gets checked out by paramedics who recommend they go to the hospital, but the person begs them not to because they know they can't afford it.

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texas_asic@reddit

Let's say you're found unconscious, that ambulance ride that you didn't agree to is probably going to cost you about $1000. That's just how it is. A large percentage of bankruptcies in the US are because of medical debt

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BarriBlue@reddit

That is, if you also denied the (expensive) ambulance ride and didn’t make it to the hospital at all.

Your car insurance and/or health insurance would cover all/most of it. If someone else is at fault for the crash, your car insurance company would go after the person at fault's car insurance company. And you could sue the driver who caused the accident for your life altering damages.

For cases where you have a medical emergency and lifesaving emergency surgery... They legally have to treat you. And then most hospitals, especially larger ones, will have some sort of program where you can set up an income based payment plan. If you're at a larger hospital, it's a good idea to ask for a patient advocate to help you navigate billing. Some, like mine, literally have a button you can push in your patient portal to take you to payment plan options.

Some don't offer this and are real dicks about it, taking impoverished people to court, and ruining lives (a rural hospital in the area I grew up landed in national news cycles for this). Hospitals that aren't owned by a for-profit company tend to at least have some options. Private equity in healthcare can get fucked though.

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tyoma@reddit

What should happen instead?

At least in the car crash scenario the auto insurance of the at-fault driver would pay some costs. This is also like the most insurancy case of why you have medical insurance.

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high_on_acrylic@reddit

Socialized healthcare should happen lol not just for car crashes but literally everything

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BobbieMcFee@reddit

"lol'. Hilarious...

What are you doing to change things?

So you write to your politicians? Go on matches? Vote for the people who want to put this in place?

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PomegranateCool1754@reddit

What should happen is that there should be regulations on prices so that whenever you get the hospital bill they don't invent random stuff to charge you with. This is basically why you have to ask for an itemized bill every time so that the hospital doesn't scam you.

We don't even need socialized medicine we just need the hospitals to not lie.

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crispywafflessuck@reddit

The wounded survivors of 9/11 and every school or mass shooting, all received medical bills.

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texas_asic@reddit

And people will say "personal responsibility"

But you could sue the person who hit you and they'd be responsible for it. Unless they're uninsured and broke, in which case you'd be relying on your health insurance and would only owe the deductible and OOP max (probably around $7K USD)

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BobbieMcFee@reddit

Do you advocate for slavery? Otherwise, nurses and doctors need paying.

Someone needs to pay them. If not you, then who?

In many countries, the health service is supplied by the government. I like that system, and have mostly lived in countries where that's the case. There are good and bad things about it.

But you already know you don't live in one of those countries...

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praetorian1979@reddit

You better limp your ass back to the factory line peasant!

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herecomes_the_sun@reddit

No, because I have insurance like the majority of americans through my work which would cover an emergency!

People talk about how insurance is terrible but idk I had some significant medical issues this year including a surgery and insurance definitely paid.

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machagogo@reddit

My insurance does yes.

Just because something is an emergency doesn't mean all of the resources needed to perform that surgery become free to obtain, the doctors and nurses don't become slaves.

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Forsaken_Distance777@reddit

Of course you do.

Late stage capitalism is a dystopia and there are legitimately terminally ill people hoping they'll just die quickly instead of having their life extended because they don't want to burden their families with crushing debt they can't pay off when it won't even cure them anyway.

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eilatanz@reddit

Yes. Even if you are unconscious and brought to the ER and need an operation, when you finally wake up you have to not only pay for the surgery, but the meds, nursing staff care, and the room per night that you stayed in. Every time. Our system is meant to profit off of people like a business and most of us hate it.

Only thing I can think of that might apply is a trip to the nurse at a public school could get you a free bandaid or two, maybe a couple minutes with an ice pack, but probably not even a Tylenol.

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The_Real_Scrotus@reddit

probably not even a Tylenol.

Hell, if it's anything like the school my kids go to they can't even take their own tylenol. If I want them to be able to take tylenol at school they have to get a doctor's note for it.

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GrandmasHere@reddit

The rule is in place, but its enforcement by the CFPB and the Federal Trade Commission is very much up in the air.

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tiger_guppy@reddit

Several years ago I checked my credit and noticed a $100 medical debt that was dragging my credit score down. I was able to figure out the phone number for the debt collector and called asking what it was for and if I could pay it. They said it had actually been paid a while back (over a year earlier) but they hadn’t updated their info they were sharing with credit score companies. So it was ruining my score for no reason. They fixed it and my score shot up overnight.

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yourlittlebirdie@reddit

There aren’t nearly as many programs to help with costs as people think.

And it was the CFPB that instituted the rule keeping medical debt off credit reports, and they’ve about to be been dissolved by the Trump administration so expect this to change very soon.

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Comfortable_Tale9722@reddit

Until you hit that deductible and then it becomes “free”

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Carbon-Based216@reddit

Unless you get lucky and get into an accident without identification and leave the hospital after they give you emergency care but before they can determine your identity.

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WhompTrucker@reddit

False.

RobbyWasaby@reddit

Exactly! And emergency cost double or treble!

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Garden-variety-chaos@reddit

Planned Parenthood has a pay what you can model. One may have other non-profits in their area as well.

But, yeah, in all other cases, either you or your insurance will be paying.

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jeffgrantMEDIA@reddit

You pay for EVERYTHING in the US. The ER is $150 just to walk in the door.

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AvailableStrain5100@reddit

Most auto insurance policies have vehicular medical coverage.

I got rear-ended once, and my insurance told me I had $50,000 in medical coverage available in my policy. So the auto insurance ended up paying for my visit to the doctor for a concussion.

If you’re unable to respond, you’d still have the medical procedures done, because being unresponsive is considered implied consent (if you’re awake and say no, they can’t actually do anything).

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VanManDom@reddit

You hope you have good insurance. I had a major hospital stay this year. Close to $1m. We payed 8grand.

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thetonytaylor@reddit

0% discount, hell might even get some up charges because they were deemed medically necessary.

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Moist-Golf-8339@reddit

You know the horrendous mass shooting that happened in Las Vegas in 2017 where 60 people died and over 400 were injured? As I understand it, those victims of the shooting had to pay for their health insurance bills afterward.

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PossumJenkinsSoles@reddit

One of the reasons there are all sorts of lawsuits that people think of as frivolous after mass tragedies is to pay medical bills of survivors.

This was actually a huge point of contention after the mass shooting in Columbine. A ton of fund raising had been done but no one was told what to expect so you had medical bills of survivors vs money paid out to the families of the dead. And of course each side thought they deserved more. That’s one of the reasons lawsuits were filed against the families of the shooters. They really just needed their home owners insurance to pay out - and for one of the shooters it did, I think.

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Moist-Golf-8339@reddit

Or we could have universal healthcare and POOF!

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Unless it's workers comp, which usually does cover all of it (but you usually have to go to specific providers), for Motor Vehicle Accidents and Dog Bites you will usually have a PIP/MedPay situation where it is usually $1-5k provided to you by your own insurance (defendents for dog bites) before you have to use your own health insurance. Any remaining balance can be paid by settlement funds if there is a successful claim against the defendents insurance company.

And you have to pay your insurance companies back if there is a settlement. Good old subrogation.

woahwombats@reddit

So you can extort a small amount from everybody, or you can extort a very large amount from the few people affected by severe injury and destroy their lives. This is why most countries like the taxes. "Extortion" my foot.

Or everyone can get private health insurance which, if everybody has it, has exactly the same effect as taxes only the PHI takes a cut as a profit margin.

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Of course you have to pay for it. If you have no insurance, they may accept partial payment. If you really can’t pay, bankruptcy is an option.

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AlfredoAllenPoe@reddit

Yes, you have to pay for it.

The only "discount" is if you have insurance and they pay for it. The vast majority of Americans have some sort of insurance, but coverage varies wildly

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TehWildMan_@reddit

Unless someone else is at fault in such a auto accident, yes it's you're responsibility. (If it's a no fault state, your own auto insurance is primarily responsible regardless of who caused it)

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Extension-Ad8549@reddit

Yes if you don't have health insurance or you can make other driver pay for it if it was there fault

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worstnameIeverheard@reddit

My mom and daughter were in a bad car accident last fall. A woman wasn’t paying any attention (texting) and drove at full speed into them.

My daughter was in the hospital for 2 days. MRIs, bloodwork, CT scans, concussion, and even broken teeth (she is 11, so they were her adult teeth).

Because we are a “no fault state”, our car insurance had to cover her bills, not the woman who hit her. Well, it only covered so much. I’ve now started getting bills (specifically the $1500 ambulance ride). Now all of those bills have to go through my health insurance. Whatever they don’t cover, I will have to pay out of pocket.

Luckily her concussion has healed. Her teeth are still broken, and when it comes time to put crowns on, we will have to pay for those in their entirety.

It makes no sense. Some woman texts and drives, causing an accident that put two innocent people in the hospital, and I have to pay for it.

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There is no “vast majority” of Americans with health insurance,

92% of Americans have health insurance

and car insurance doesnt provide the cost of treatment

All states require liability insurance that covers medical bills

especially if the other person didnt bother to get insurance at all.

Most if not all policies require uninsured motorist coverage for that very reason

They do not cover “emergency” surgeries, you still get the full bill

That’s exactly what liability insurance covers

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StarSpangleBRangel@reddit

92 percent of the country has health insurance, buddy.

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moustachiocat@reddit

You have to pay for everything. Not an emergency but I had a tumor removed in November and I didn’t know my insurance lapsed right before. I have a 1.2k bill for the surgery and an 11k bill for anesthesia. Naively, I thought that was all. Just got the 1k bill for pathology.

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Toriat5144@reddit

Not if you have insurance.

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AgileAbbreviations94@reddit

Yep.

I was involved in a car crash that was not my fault. My insurance collected from two people: they both had the state minimum car insurance. 25k.

My bills were 380k for a month in the hospital. Several of my bones were broken. Most of the doctors I saw were surprise billers and I wasn't lucid enough to ask all of them, meaning they were contracted to a hospital my insurance covered but not direct employees. My insurance refused to cover.

The only things that saved me was having $1.5m in umbrella insurance and having multiple medical insurance policies. I still had to negotiate a few dozen bills while I was in the hospital.

That's medical care in the US.

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themistycrystal@reddit

Yes, you pay for all healthcare.

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Sleepygirl57@reddit

We have to pay for every medical event.

If you're in an emergency and need surgery, medical professionals are legally required to treat patients.

Then the administrators will first try to figure out if you have insurance, and try to get it covered that way.

If you don't have insurance (or if there's no way to know), they will probably charge you, but there are financial assistance programs and so on. (Some hospitals have charity care programs that will let them waive the cost.) They may also try to work out a payment plan, so it isn't all due at once.

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Toriat5144@reddit

If they chsrge you and it happens you had insurance, you can submit the bills to your insurance company company.

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HippieJed@reddit

As others have said we have to pay for everything. So many people every year file for bankruptcy due to medical bills

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Mammoth_Ad_4806@reddit

Depends. My husband was in a car accident caused by another motorist, and his medical bills were paid for by our state’s no-fault insurance and the other motorist’s auto insurance.

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2poobie1@reddit

You will still be left with the cost but in many cases (or maybe just my case) you can haggle with the hospital and even write them letters explaining how you will not be able to pay. A lot of hospitals are nonprofit so they have to write off many expenses at the end of the year and they could potentially write off your costs.

Our health care system still fucking sucks though.

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StanUrbanBikeRider@reddit

Cant-Take-Jokes@reddit

Last year I went to the doctor because my gallbladder was about to explode, and they had to do surgery to take it out. I had no insurance. They sent me a bill for around $60,000 then a separate bill for the anesthesiologist for another idk $3,000 or something.

Neither got paid. They used to call me daily, they call me weekly still. It’ll eventually go to collections and eff up my credit. It is what it is.

So short answer: ✨yes✨

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tTomalicious@reddit

If there if money to be made off your tragedy, the capitalists will circle. Welcome to America.

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International-Mix326@reddit

There's a court case that ruled you don't have to so sent to surgery or an ambulance if unconscious.

People savings have been wiped out for soemthing like a snake bite

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RatherGoodDog@reddit

So assuming the surgery gets done (and you have no money or insurance), what happens next? They give you a big bill and you say "I guess I'm bankrupt now, no chance of paying this". What then?

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From the experience of two close friends who went through exactly this, you have to file bankruptcy, it still wont get rid of some of the debt, you exhaust all your resources and end up homeless

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StarSpangleBRangel@reddit

you exhaust all your resources and end up homeless

You incur medical debt. It can be treated slightly differently from normal debt for the purpose of credit scores. Still bad but it has some caveats.

mongooser@reddit

Yes. You have to pay even if you refuse medical treatment and they ignore you. It’s unjust enrichment. I hate it.

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Zoe_118@reddit

If you're conscious, you have to give consent. If not, hopefully you have a proxy to make the decision for you.

As far as payment goes, they charge your insurance first, then they charge you for whatever is left.

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Reverend_Bull@reddit

Under the EMTALA, a hospital cannot deny you stabilizing care because you cannot pay. But it will still bill you and try to collect after the fact, including legal debt recuperation efforts. Stabilizing care is not full care. It only fixes the immediate crisis. In the case you mentioned, they would perform the surgery and probably a night of observation under EMTALA, then bandage you up and dismiss you. Physical therapy, wound care, prosthetics etc. could be denied without up front down payment. In practice, most hospitals provide any services you need and just bill later. Ambulance? Bill. Nursing? Bill Doctor? Separate bill. Drugs? Bandages? Surgery? Bed in the ER? Bill, Bill, Bill etc And that's not even getting into how insurance weasels out of paying

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11b87@reddit

That's why one has insurance.

As bad as some Insurance companies are, it pays to shop around. Or have employer provided health insurance, which you still pay a potion of, and have a deductible.

Its not a perfect system, but works for the most part.

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Grimmhoof@reddit

You'll be medical debt for a long time. The US Healthcare system is about maximizing profits over the welfare of the general population. That's why we don't have universal health care.

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Stateach@reddit

Oh yeah. I was in a major car accident & while in total shock, covered in glass & blood, I refused the ambulance because all I could think about was how that ambulance ride will cost me thousands. A friend drove me.

My niece is 5 and she had to be life flighted & it was 75k.

It’s awful here.

My birth was 10k each kid.

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boytoy421@reddit

It depends but usually yes

The caveats are that all emergency rooms are required to treat and stabalize you regardless of your ability to pay. Another is that lets say you're driving and I'm a pedestrian, if you hit me I can bill your insurance or you for the cost of my medical treatment and YOU pay. Similarly if I get hurt at work doing my job then my job pays

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BarriBlue@reddit

Yes.

In some states, you could sue the person at fault for the accident for medical costs.

In other states, in a car crash situation, your car insurance would cover the medical bills after an accident no matter whose fault.

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mr_miggs@reddit

Yes you have to pay, and it’s probably more expensive than if you pre planned an amputation.

Some local governments in the US maintain their own ambulance services, usually as part of the fire department. Other local governments contract out for private ambulances, often run by local hospitals. Some local governments have a mixture of both and it depends on the circumstances as to who responds. For instance, the local fire department might cover serious emergency calls and the private service might handle everything else.

we had to pay it

Next of Kin isn’t responsible for debts incurred by a dead person.

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NoDoOversInLife@reddit

Presuming you're in the US.....

If you have medical insurance, the hospital will bill accordingly. They can also bill your auto insurance. And/or your insurance carrier can file against the other party should there be another party who is insured and found at fault.

If they are Insured, at fault and have minimal coverage, you can file a claim with your own insurance carrier via Underinsured motorist coverage.

If an at fault party isn't Insured, your Uninsured Motorist coverage should come into play.

Also, check to see if the County/City of occupance has a Victim of Crime fund which you can petition to cover expenses.

Hopeful_Cry917@reddit

I honestly don't understand how all that works. I just know we were considered nearly 200% below poverty level by the hospital's charts and 100 percent below qualified you to not have any "fincial responsibility for applicable services".

To give a better understanding of our financial situation. There are charts available online that say what the minimum wage needed is to be considered a "living wage" in different counties. At that time, the one for our county said for 2 adults with no dependents each working 40 hour weeks they each needed to make $10 per hour. At the time my husband was the only one working and was making around $9 an hour. He also wasn't working 40 hours. So we didn't even meet the living wage for one adult. Much less two. Plus he didn't get paid for time he didn't work so we had no income while he was in the hospital and recovering at home.

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twelveangryken@reddit

If you were unconscious you'd also have to pay for the ambulance you never asked for and the Mobile Cardiac Unit that probably came along with it. If you had to be cut out of the car on a rural road, you'd have to pay for the helicopter they dispatched to airlift you.

Not always. I was in a fight with a home intruder and I was stabed and cut up. I had to have emergency surgery and stay in the hospital for several days. Because it was a violet offense the city I lived in paid for everything.

I have also been in car accidents but I was liable for the medical bills in those situations.

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Intense_Rush_1397@reddit

Even if you are one of many people in a crowd injured by a crazy person with a gun, every body is liable for their own health care costs. Even with health-insurance, the cost could be in the thousands and your life could drastically change in an instant.

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bellabarbiex@reddit

Yep, I was going to on about how insured people are often fucked financially because their insurance simply won't cover care. I remember seeing Loren Schauers who was crushed by a forklift in 2019 and had to have a hemicorporectomy (where everything below the waist is amputated) after the accident. His bills were in the millions, he said but thankfully his initial care was covered by workman's comp. Someone who didn't have that though? On top of being injured so terribly? My God. Even a lot of "well off" people don't have money like that. I'd like to imagine a lot of the bills would be forgiven/covered by charity though - but still, awful to think about.

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YOUR_TRIGGER@reddit

technically yea, that's how it's supposed to work.

Oh yeah. ER worker, here. Get shot and brought in unconscious? There's a bill for that. Need several units of blood to live? Bill for that on top of the original bill. Need to be airlifted to a nearby trauma center? Bill for that. Ambulance to another hospital? Bill for that.

Many pay a monthly insurance cost for a coverage plan we choose. I’ve always had a plan that is 3,000 out of pocket max. Couple of years ago was in hospital a couple times. I paid 3k max and my insurer paid about 150k for all care.

My SO is from Europe. Her take, quicker access to high quality healthcare here compared to her home country.

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Financial_Month_3475@reddit

Yes, you’d get a bill. If you have insurance, you’d owe a co-pay, and, in theory, they should pay most of the bill.

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We are Americans. We have to pay for everything. Life here is a subscription service at this point.