How much is doing On-call worth to you?
Posted by toliveagainnow@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 198 comments
Our team has a rotating on-call schedule. Duty is being primary contact for after hours calls (high incidents only). Triage incident tickets during hours; just typical administrative paperwork.
One of my co-workers loathes on-call duties and is only hanging around until he can retire in December. He's offered me cash to take his rotation.
How much would you charge him?
CtrlAltKiwi@reddit
$6/after-hours hour.
So working 40 hour weeks, 128 hours not working * $6 = $768 for an on-call week.
Then times that by how many weeks you are on-call.
zed0K@reddit
Too low. The rate should be your normal hourly, or higher.
CtrlAltKiwi@reddit
Normal hourly rate for just having your phone turned on and going out to dinner or to sleep?
kirashi3@reddit
Question: What happens if my partner drives us out to dinner and I decide to partake in a few wobbly pops? Is the employer okay with the liability of paging in a drunk employee? If no, pay me for my time.
_Moonlapse_@reddit
Absolutely. It's your free time, it should be expensive
CtrlAltKiwi@reddit
Do any of your jobs actually pay what your full working hourly rate is, for on-call allowance?
When I’ve been on call, usually the phone doesn’t ring at all, you just have to be within an hour of home (or your laptop with an internet connection).
Are you seriously saying if you got offered a role as sole IT Manager for a small business, at $500,000, you would not take it?
_Moonlapse_@reddit
First off, any job where you're "unlucky to be on call every week" is a job you absolutely refuse to do on-call until they have the required staffing levels, or you leave. Regardless of the money, you need time to not be working.
The week I'm on call I get €1000 flat rate, 7am to 10pm. One week out of 6. So not a lot of hours outside of my working day
Phone calls only, not checking mail. Only management has access to the on call number.
Any call is €50, if they engage it's €50 per hour or part thereof. A lot of things can generally wait until the next working day.
I think that's bare minimum as well, currently doing that for some brownie points to further my position.
CtrlAltKiwi@reddit
So 15hrs Sat & Sun. Weekdays: 2hrs before work at 9am, and 5hrs after 5pm until 10pm?
65hrs at at €15.40/hr seems really good. Especially once converting from Euros.
Union job? Or is that the norm where you are?
_Moonlapse_@reddit
Yeah that's all the hours of on call. Getting more redundancy in place so the phone rarely rings so I can actually do things, but just have the laptop in the car or whatever. And keep in mind that's before the phone even rings! So works out ok.
No not union job, and private sector. Employment law in Ireland is very strong. It's the going rate if you know what you are doing, if that makes sense!
zed0K@reddit
Yep.
CtrlAltKiwi@reddit
Do any of your jobs actually pay what your full working hourly rate is, for on-call allowance?
When I’ve been on call, usually the phone doesn’t ring at all, you just have to be within an hour of home (or your laptop with an internet connection).
Are you seriously saying if you got offered a role as sole IT Manager for a small business, at $500,000, you would not take it?
zed0K@reddit
Oh no, I definitely would for that amount and that job description. But outside of that, I'm not doing on call ever unless I'm being paid an extra rate for off hours. It's either no on call, or normal pay off hours. Since the latter is hard to find and not that realistic, the answer is no on call.
Murhawk013@reddit
I took my coworkers on call semi permanently but I’m not charging him extra I just wanted the extra on call pay lol
toliveagainnow@reddit (OP)
We no longer get extra on call pay.
kirashi3@reddit
What? No. Wrong. Bad. No pay, no on-call.
I understand it's never "this simple" but if an employer expects you to be available to perform work duties at a moment's notice (no drinking, no camping, no social life, an inability to plan being a adult, etc.), they are to pay me my full hourly rate during all on-call hours, with a bump up to double time if I'm called in to work.
I value my free time more than most. If you want my expertise outside of my typical schedule (Mon - Fri 9-5), you will compensate me with what I believe I'm worth, or you will find a replacement whilst I take my knowledge and skills to another employer, who might even be your competition. scientia est potentia.
widowhanzo@reddit
Then we're no longer doing on call 🤷
robstrosity@reddit
If you're not paying them I'm not doing it.
Frisnfruitig@reddit
Why do it then?
JustAnotherOpinion21@reddit
Previous employer used to pay $220 per week. But we got virtually zero calls, so I did 1 in 4. When company tried to get interstate admins to join roster they all turned their noses up at the 'meagre amount', they argued it should be $450 a week.
When it got revised, 18x admins wanted to be on roster, but I complained that it was unfair to change my 1in 4 routine, so they left me at that at the higher amount. Win win!!!
Still got naf all calls, just double the pay for it! :)
Frisnfruitig@reddit
But you're being paid to be available, whether you are getting calls or not. That's still something that would be in the back of my mind, I still wouldn't do it for 220 per week personally.
Bob_the_gob_knobbler@reddit
Exactly. Our on call is $100 a day for (super) extended office hours, meaning 7 AM to 11 PM, and I’m still very happy we never do it except during major application releases.
Frisnfruitig@reddit
100 a day is more like it. Still wouldn't feel good doing it tbh, my personal time is worth a lot more to me than some money. They're already getting 40 hours per week out of me, that's more than enough as far as I'm concerned.
JustAnotherOpinion21@reddit
Not paying? I'd opt out of doing it. End of story.
We get a retainer of about $400 per week to actually be on-call, with this silly caveat that the first 30 mins of any calls are covered by that.
If it goes over 30 mins, it's paid at 1.5x hourly rate for first 3 hours then 2x hourly rate beyond that. After 12pm Saturday and all day sunday are 2x straight up.
We don't have minimum time period unless you are actually called out to a site, then it's 3 hours min.
In saying all that I do a 1 week in 4 roster and would be lucky to get a single call in that week, if I did it would be in the realm of 1-3 hours.
If someone wants me to cover their week I say gladly unless I'm going away with family, it's just extra income.
Immediate-Serve-128@reddit
That's not terrible. $400 for the week and the hourly is managable. Realisitically though, its 16 hours of the day you have to be close to PC, sober etc
A lot of places dont care though.
Immediate-Serve-128@reddit
My base pay would need to be at least 300K to cop that shit.
alonesoldier@reddit
I wouldn’t touch this with someone else’s pole. No on call pay?? Fuck that. Idk, it depends on the org, but you could set yourself up for future volun-told rotations that begin as backfill ‘favors’ once this dude is out.
Murhawk013@reddit
Then I’d def ask for whatever it used to be
CubesTheGamer@reddit
My work is extremely chill about it. There is no schedule, our NOC tried to handle what they can and contact system owners directly and only contact us when absolutely necessary. If one of us doesn’t answer, they move on to the next person. There’s no expectation that you are always available, and since we work remote it’s usually not a big deal. I get maybe one or two calls per week outside regular hours at most. Sometimes I don’t answer if I’m busy or am in a position where I couldn’t help anyways (out at the store, at a family members house, etc…)
Bogus1989@reddit
this approach works so well when you got a group of good guys/gals…makes it all so easy
CubesTheGamer@reddit
Yeah, 100% agree. If even a couple of these things weren’t true it would be toxic and I would have much harder feelings about it lol
Automatic_Mulberry@reddit
How many pages a week, would you say? Or whatever time period your duty lasts. I'd say minimum 1 hour's worth of your salary per page, even if it takes ten minutes, and upward from there.
The last time I was on an on-call rota, it was pretty much expected that I would get 100 pages in a week. Just to pull a number out of the air, $50 per page minimum, so $5000 for the week? How bad does your cow-orker hate being on call?
TrappedOnARock@reddit
100 pages in a week?
I've had on-call duties ranging from "I'm the only IT guy for this small company", "I'm the only IT guy for this role in a big org" to a rotation on-call for a MSP and never experienced more than a few calls a week.
How do you handle 100 calls a week? Honest question. Is that purely a triage role where you aren't expected to solve the issue but just gather enough info to pass the ticket on to the correct team?
I'm feeling tired just thinking about handling that many tickets on-call.
TireFryer426@reddit
I worked for a large company that insisted literally everything get pages out. No intelligent monitoring. CPU breached 90% for 3 seconds…. Paged. Pages per second high - paged. Roughly 1200 systems at the time. When you were on call - you didn’t sleep. Almost lost a relationship over it. My SO made me sleep in a different room. We had zero power to try and fix it. Executive management knew better.
That company doesn’t even exist anymore.
Oddly, I consulted doing large scale systems monitoring, and I ran into way too many companies that did it that way.
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
What was the difference between 'on call' and just fucking working at that point?
TireFryer426@reddit
Because if its a page its 'miscellaneous duties as assigned'. So you still gotta do your 8-5. Trust that this company had zero f's to give about this.
One of the major reasons that I try to avoid working for companies that have been acquired by an investment firm.
c235k@reddit
So useless metrics lol I love that getting woken up by the graphic designer launching autocad hahahahah
Automatic_Mulberry@reddit
I still feel tired just remembering it, and that was five years ago.
During the day, I would triage and pass along. After hours, I would band-aid it and pass it along for followup in the morning. For the bad issues, I would work it as long as it took. That kind didn't happen too much.
CubesTheGamer@reddit
100 pages a week? That’s a full-time second job bro lol
nlga@reddit
were you actually paid 5k a week?
Automatic_Mulberry@reddit
No, not even close. That was a bad job. But if that's the level OP is being asked to pick up, that's what I would ask.
TheFleebus@reddit
I was a lead at a NOC. It was a 24/365 operation. Leads didn't typically work weekends or holidays so we had to rotate on-call for high priority incidents. Due to the nature of our industry, on-call were expected to respond and be online within 15min. Laptop and cell phone with you at all times. As compensation, the lead was paid minimum wage for the entire time they were on-call and then OT for any time working an actual incident. Weekend on-call hours were from 10pm Friday to 6am Monday. 56 hours @ $13/hr (California minimum wage at the time) = $728.00. And that's if you didn't get a single call. I'd typically clear $1G for a weekend of on-call. Was it worth it? Honestly, hard to say.
ILikeTewdles@reddit
That's actually a good deal and that company did it the right way.
The last 2 org's I've worked for including my current one do not pay extra for on call. They consider it part of your total comp salary which is complete BS to me. But, what do ya do? It's hard finding a place that is actually ethical.
223454@reddit
Same with my last 2 jobs. It was just considered part of the job. We were all paid below market and told the culture made up for it. They downplayed the burden of on-call. Then we all found out why their turnover was high. We tried to bring it up a few times in meetings, but they would always just talk the issue away and hope we would let it go. One place basically had people working 24/7, but refused to properly staff IT. What they called "on-call" should have been a shift of IT people working.
ILikeTewdles@reddit
Yikes. Ours in't bad from a call perspective, maybe one or two calls a week. However, it still affects your life that week. We have to call back right away and try connecting with the caller within an hour or so.
How that is not "engaged to wait" vs " waiting to be engaged" is such a gray area, it's so dumb. IMO, if you're going to have an on call rotation where your employees can't do things like go see a movie or out on a hike etc, they need to be paid... Its total BS companies work the system so much.
223454@reddit
The way I've always seen it, is "on-call" is waiting to do a large amount of work (on rare occasions). So you get the call, you go in to the office, and you work for 2-3 hours. Then you get compensated for that. Maybe it happens once a month or less. But a lot of places will have multiple calls a week where you're working maybe 10m-30m, without compensation (then they say something like "It's only a few minutes. What's the big deal?"). Which significantly disrupts your personal like. I've never been paid well enough to deal with that.
Repulsive_Tadpole998@reddit
My company does three week rotation, it's only after hours support (most weeks nothing comes in). We're paid a days salary for the duty every week We're on.
Honestly to me it's worth it. I've been with companies before where I was on call 24/7 even on vacation and didn't get anything extra for it.
fadingroads@reddit
On-call is probably one of the reasons why I have nocturnal epilepsy.
I'm of the opinion that a night/weekend staff (even a skeleton crew) is better than sacrificing your time off.
No amount of money is worth developing a permanent health issue.
SirVas@reddit
We have a 4-man rotation (sysadmin/devops). Week long. About €1100 per week extra. Sometimes it happens two times in a month, the money is ok but it's getting ooooooold. I have given up 25% of my life since 2006. Cant go where I want, cant drink, have to contantly check my messages. I'm willing to give up that money, so I guess that is the ammount it is worth.
whatzrapz@reddit
Haha bro i wouldnt do oncall for anything less than a full weeks salary coz its basically taking your whole life away for that week.
LucidZane@reddit
You guys are getting paid?
I'm on call 7 days a week 24 hours a day
ntmaven247@reddit
I stopped working for MSPs because of being oncall, it digs into your personal life way too much. As for what I'd charge, it would be whatever he would make on that shift, don't need to be greedy with it but it's a tough call. Good luck in any event :)
anonpf@reddit
It’s not. My off time is too valuable to me to hold it hostage for potential overnight calls.
ITrCool@reddit
This is my position too, which is why I’m shopping around for jobs specifically with NO on-call requirements. Nope, it’s a place with a night shift or I’m not biting.
ILikeTewdles@reddit
Good luck with that. I left a job that had on call for a job with no on call. They transferred some systems to my team, now we have on call...FML....
Now I'm stuck in a hard place. The company pays well for the work and has great benefits, but monthly on call is wrecking me mentally again... Ugh.
ITrCool@reddit
“Let’s save a buck, fire all of our night shift, and snatch away our day shift’s sleep cycles and personal lives. Yeah, this won’t result in high turnover or decreasing personnel morale and work quality. It’ll be fine.”
ILikeTewdles@reddit
Yeah no doubt it's to save money. IMO, if the system is that critical, you should have a night shift not some poor guy that has no life for a week.
The kicker is we don't get extra pay either. It's part of our "total salary comp" which is about average.
Do I do the bare minimum every day now, you bet.
ITrCool@reddit
Yup, I’ve begun to fall into that mindset too. For 18 years I’ve tried to be the “extra mile” guy. Going above and beyond to impress the bosses and get those promotions. To prove myself.
Yeah…..that did nothing for me.
ILikeTewdles@reddit
Same here, 20 years in and I'm jaded LOL. It honestly gets you nothing but more work for the same pay. I do my job well, but that's it.
Wooden-Can-5688@reddit
Nearly all IT admin roles are going to include on-call duty. I was laid off last year from a company I spent 20+ years as an Exchange admin. It was an MSP for large enterprise IT.
As I searched for a job, there were absolutely no admin roles that didn't include on-call. Even many of the Architect roles I saw included being an Escalation Engineer for the ops team and assisting them after hours if needed. Sometimes, they also mentioned doing Ecec Support as needed. From my experience, the Architect"s at the MSP I worked at never owned any break/fix ops issues unless they were directly related to project activities executed by an Architect. The point is, I saw the Architect role as a move out of admin work and the on-call duty that came with it. Frankly, I thought it was ridiculous and never applied to any of them.
Fortunately, I recently was offered a Consulting role, which is another career progression from as admin role. It's a 9-5 gig, and 20% of my time is my own for training, personal items, etc. My lesson was as long as I did admin roles, there was escaping on-call. Just my 2 cents.
ITrCool@reddit
It’s sad but business leaders in the US have begun to fall into a trend of failing to reciprocate their part of the professional contract and relationship with employees they hire.
They want to hire someone, pay them as low as they legally can or can without scaring the hire away, then they want maximum productivity from them, without having to reciprocate reward for that productivity.
They have employees go the extra mile and work hard to impress them and price to them they are capable of more responsibility, and as they were taught all their lives, more pay with that responsibility. But nope, leaders don’t want to do that. They want to save a buck and NOT give raises with promotions. They want all the good stuff without paying the difference in return.
So workers are learning not to give the good stuff to business leaders anymore because of this trend.
You’re not going to pay for taking away my personal time and weekends and sleep? Then you’re not going to get my best. You want my best? Pay for it.
To all business leaders, managers, and Directors out there, let me make this as simple for you as I can:
You want my best work, my best loyalty and dedication, my weekends and nights available to you, then you need to pay for it. I don’t give it away for free. “But your salary” isn’t going to cut it anymore.
ILikeTewdles@reddit
Right on. And they wonder why so many of us are wising up and "quiet quitting". The effort put forward doesn't equal the reward and we're tired, simple as that.
0zer0space0@reddit
I’m at a place with 24/7 all shifts fully staffed and am still on-call. Lol
But no rules on call. I’ve never been told any. If I’m not able to answer, then I’m not going to answer.
They gotta trust the rest of the staff more.
ITrCool@reddit
I used to be at a place like that. We had a 24/7 IRC, a team in India, and TECHNICALLY I was on call along with the rest of my team all at the same time.......but we were literally never paged out the six years I was there. The company was so well-resourced to deal with it, it was fine.
Immediate-Serve-128@reddit
Yeah, if they want 24 hours support, they need shifts. I wouldnt mind working night shift. Less layer 8 nonsense, and penalty rates, at least in AU.
forgottenmy@reddit
Do you get paid a base on call rate currently? My team is between 3 and 5 dollars an hour that they get during on call hours. It doesn't sound like much but it turns into 300-600 a paycheck for what can be a virtually silent week. Anyway, if you get that is the obvious choice to just take that. Actually if you don't get some type of on call diff, maybe check with HR and legal...
SabishiiHito@reddit
I've never gotten any extra pay for on-call in an IT job in my 20 years in the field.
harubax@reddit
On call should be compensated. There is even legislation in many countries for it.
forgottenmy@reddit
Labor laws, even in shitty states (I'm in one!), tend to look very down on this unless HR says you are paid x% above a "base" for being on call.
che-che-chester@reddit
I dated a nurse who had the same thing. She got like $4/hr just for the inconvenience of being on-call. But if she got called, she went to double time the second she got off the phone. I think she had to be physically at work within 30 minutes.
forgottenmy@reddit
The folks here that get paid hourly get a minimum one hour pay even if if takes 5 minutes and they can do it remotely. If they have to come in, it's double time and a minimum of two hours pay. Salaried folks are SOL on extra money outside the diff.
che-che-chester@reddit
One senior helpdesk guy at work tends to get all of the VIP tickets so they also go directly to him after hours. His manager told him it can be overtime and to round up to the next full hour for any call. He loves it. It's always something stupid he can fix from his phone that takes 5 minutes. He makes like $40/hour so that's $80 to reset a password while he watches TV.
And you what? That's how it should be. Employees should be very well compensated for giving up their personal time.
He once told me at Christmas some VIPs submit fake tickets after hours to give him a bonus :) He calls them up and they "let's agree that you reset my password".
rcp9ty@reddit
2x my hourly rate and every call I get even if it takes me one minute is worth an hour. No flat fee.
No-Difficulty9846@reddit
There is no amount of money that could get me to be on call anymore. Your co-worker is right
djgizmo@reddit
depends on…
A) how likely am i going to get a call?
b) what kind of calls am i going to get? c) who will be calling me? d) can i still live my life or will i need to be chained to the home and cant get drunk?
If i’m chained to my home and cant get drunk, then im getting $100-$200 per day minimum just for the oncall hours.
if im free to live life and i can respond within 4 hours, and push tickets / emails, then half that.
if i get asshole users, there’s a $50 call asshole tax.
if i’m getting calls every other night while on call and it’s 2am, it’s a $100 per night on top of the above for lack of sleep and depriving my health tax.
if im having to stay up all night more than once a year, then im renegotiating my salary to be painful enough so they can hire dedicated staff for on call overnight.
Wolflikeshotsauce@reddit
Enough that I’m learning options trading.
CG_Kilo@reddit
Depends. Is on call all tickets during that emergency window? We have an answering service that does basic troubleshooting then calls out to the on call tech after it if it is indeed a real issue or they are a VIP (typically owners).
When I was part of the o. Call shift I enjoyed the extra 250 we got to be on call + the overtime pay. Techs who hated the incall would then offer me cash to take their on call shifts which I gladly took. (We got maybe 2 calls a week back then).
12yrs later I don't think I'd do it. Hell I'm pretty much on call all the time anyway if it is an emergency. I'm not "on call" by rotation. Just one of the high up people expected to help any on call engineer with an issue
Bogus1989@reddit
lmao you sound like me…learn the hard way 🤣
Outrageous-Guess1350@reddit
I started a new job. They never brought up week long on-call shifts during the interviews. Second day I was their, I was briefed on my on-call duties. I told them I was not told I would be on the on-call schedule. I was the only one of three new guys protesting.
The pay was 50 euros a week for first on-call shift member and 50 euros a week for second (in case the first shifter didn’t pick up) back to back. Later it was revised to 75/25 a week (which was presented as an increase but was in fact the exact same pay). You would get actually worked time during on-call shifts back as PTO.
Duties were presented as high incidents only by key personel. Reality was anyone could call at any time for any problem. I would get calls at 22:00 hours about personal printers in vacation homes not connecting or 07:00 hours calls for hotspot connection issues. You couldn’t not say no. So after regular hours ended, people would start calling the on-call line for anything. This disrupted all my plans. I couldn’t go out, make plans on the weekend, have a drink with friends.
I interviewed at a different company. They paid 375 euros per week. This was in line with a different company I did contract work for in the past (350 euros a week). They had way less on-call calls and paid way more.
Told my boss he needed to raise the amount of money for on-call work. He said I was the only one complaining and it was a fair price because time was reimbursed. I told him the amount of work I got for problems that could be fixed on regulair office hours, but he didn’t care. So I told him I wasn’t gonna do on-call shifts anymore, he said okay. Two months later I was let go because I wouldn’t go above and beyond which included the low paying, non-consensual on-call shifts.
Started my own MSP. Key personel received the secret way they could get a hold of me outside of office hours in case of emergencies (and I am the one deciding if the problem is an emergency) . Outside of office hours people can send an email of wait until office hours have started. They pay 200% for work outside of office hours. I get a call once or twice a year that would be actual emergencies.
Bogus1989@reddit
glad you stuck it to them…nothing more I hate to see is a team being abused and too scared to ask for what they deserve
BlueHatBrit@reddit
Honestly, the fact you're all still doing on-call after they removed the pay for it is absolutely shocking to me.
You're now doing free labour on your evenings and weekends. Please stop that, it's not good for you and it's not good for the people who will work there after you.
Fuck, I can't believe we're still seeing this in the industry.
Needless to say the moment you take those shifts, they're never leaving you and they're not going to have any incentive to hire someone to take it on.
toliveagainnow@reddit (OP)
I think only 3 out of 10 of us have been around long enough to remember getting paid for on call. It's been that long ago they removed the incentive.
I guess how I'm trying to respond is that once he leaves, they'll just rebalance the schedule between who's left.
Bogus1989@reddit
thats garbage too…you guys need to find out if there is a policy that states how many machines or scope per man is the minimum…this is how we were able to justify getting more team mates and getting new ones if one retired….keep bringing it up over and over.
Itd take a rally of the troops and united front to get it to change…pretty hard to do, but depending on the guys also could be pretty easy. i worked with a bunch of salty seasoned no bullshit IT guys, who all were working there just for some health insurance and to pass some time…basically all of them could retire on the dot if you wanted to piss them off 🤣
Bogus1989@reddit
YEP. tried that shit on us….I wasnt financially prepared to quit, but as my entire team, noted….if yall quit im not staying fuck this….and we have 270 more of us across the nation…apparently others got so mad they took it as an insult….and that was that…they came back with an offer much better than the previous to make up for pissing everyone off. it really was their fault not looking at previous employers(pre merge) on call policy
Miwwies@reddit
My on call was based on my hourly wage when I was a consultant through an agency. It's calculated by days when I'm available outside of normal working hours. The pay is +1hr every weekday and on weekdays +2hrs, on holidays +4hrs. This doesn't count as overtime so it's paid at my regular rate.
So for 1 week of on call without any holidays, that equals to an extra (5 x 1) + (2 x 2) = 9hrs at my hourly rate if I don't get called. It's a pretty sweet deal but horrible for work/life balance.
When I do get called, I will add the time it took to fix the issue, rounded by the hour and that gets OT applied.
I'm not in the US. I switched jobs recently and I'm no longer on call.
Bogus1989@reddit
yeah id forgot to mention that in my post…no one really questioned if the on call guy came in late, if he had to work…especially no one was bitching when someone else took theirs for them.
Bogus1989@reddit
im really surprised there is no on call…like my other post in here, when we merged to become a new org, theyd forgot to leave on call in….and that literally kept me afloat at that time..i wasnt gonna sign it….
we have 6 guys on our team for our region, but there are teams identical to us, per region all across the country and org. about 270 total….
i guess no one else agreed either…they came back with an on call roster that was better than our previous…good deal
Bogus1989@reddit
when i went thru my divorce, i basically found out, that the court was 100 percent aware, that with child support, being 50/50….id still owe more than i even made…every month….id ran the numbers multiple times and this was as cut down as i could possibly get, zero recurring bills besides cell phone and rent, insurance for my truck…shit really fucked me up….mainly because, they base it off your total income, and although they cant take money from your VA disability(like if thats all I had) they still calculate how much you will pay by comparison of you and your wifes total income….in reality without VA she made much more than me…..i wont reveal all details but I even found a way to get that reduced…still owed more than I made….
Taking everyones on call rotations literally saved me….and honestly after a few months…it just felt normal anyways….i did my on plus 3 others for basically 3-4 years, sometime in there a coworker, we took our entire teams oncall and just swapped out every other week….I myself honestly am the reason on call became the way it shouldve been….no one ever gave us real direction….but id dug up the exact policy and made sure i cited it and sent it…so on call became basically as nothing but extra money for the most part….even when i didnt gave on call i always opted that my phone woukd be on and im a night owl so probably up too…so usually guys would call me for something like, hey what team does this go to ETC…anyways i did this for as long as I had to…i got the biggest raise of anyone across our org in our teams, so that was a nice relief, i still didnt stop doing on call like the every other week me and my coworker did…..at some point our other coworker said hed like to join in and we split it 3 ways…..we did that for a very long time cuz we had two new people, then added them on….
i forgot there was a few times those other 2 guys asked for a full load of oncall, we had it rotate weekly among 7 people, at one point i was only call consecutively 4 weeks in a row….and i felt zero stress. we did agree to put some breaks in there….
on call we have always advertised to anyone on the team, if youre short on cash or need extra dough, just let one of us know why and we will discuss it…most likely we will let you take it all, in respect to that you need it and are hurting…our director knows we have held this tradition as sort of a perk and support for a long time and is cool with it, as long as we update the oncall calendar so he knows whos on call is all he asked.
So for us, on call no matter what, that entire week, you will get at the minimum (no calls outside normal hours) an amount around 350-400+ depending on your wages….now if you actually get a critical outside business hours? even if its a wrong team transfer, or fix it in 1 min, or you realize the issue is fixed by the time you get the ticket….its 2 hours…minimum….anything 3 hours plus you mark down that many hours on….
now if you have to drive in…3 hours minimum you clock….
since everywhere week is 40 hours, all of this on call is overtime.
its really nice sometimes if you do get a bunch if tickers….ive had like 9-10 hours paid for despite working 20 mins plenty of times, since i got multiple criticals.
our new guys were nervous bout doing it…i told them if you think you need to drive in and are torn…infact before you ever drive in, you must call me…that way if a user is pressuring a new guy I can talk to to them and tell em NOPE tomorrow
thernlund@reddit
I'm salaried. I've been on-call for 25+ years. I don't mind it though. I'm paid well and the organization is as respectful of my time as they can reasonably be. So those kinds of calls are rare enough.
Kahless_2K@reddit
Depends on how many calls you typically get.
He could brine me for $500-1000 per week, but thats only an extra 4 hours of work typically.
artano-tal@reddit
I’ve been on call for most of my career. We are paid 2 dollars an hour for on-call time. If we get called in, we’re paid for the time worked with a 4-hour minimum. We’re expected to respond and, if needed, be available to work within a "reasonable amount of time", ideally under 4 hours.
This is different from standby, where you must be immediately available. Standby pays 50% of base pay, with a 2-hour minimum.
Whether the time is counted as overtime depends on the employee’s choice; either take time off later or claim it as overtime. It’s optional. It goes into a bank and gets cashed out once a year (or immediately if you request it). They don't want anyone to build up too many hours.
While work has interrupted me at bad times, overall its been fine and adds significantly to my yearly earnings. To the point that I earn more than my management, so I have stayed in the position as opposed to seeking a leadership role. I have everything setup now that I have never been called to physically do anything in so long my creds to the datacenter are long expired.
I carry my macbook and I can work from anywhere there is cellular service.
Doub1eAA@reddit
It was $100 a week, bumped to $250 first call and $500 for anything over 5 hours. Couple other steps up.
Cold_Snap8622@reddit
wait you guys are getting paid!
Weary_Patience_7778@reddit
Whoa. No pay for on call? Would love to have been a fly on the wall of that meeting.
I’m now in a segment of IT that doesn’t require oncall.
Sure, everyone has a price. I think you would have to pay me more than my daytime hourly rate to make it worthwhile, and more again when a call actually came through.
ItaJohnson@reddit
My last employer used on call as an excuse for free labor. Not only were you responsible for taking calls, they gave you projects that took around three hours per day. All this with no pay for it since we were salaried.
HoustonBOFH@reddit
How about no? That is constructive dismissal, and I do not accept the new terms.
ItaJohnson@reddit
If it’s not an hourly position, I would look for another job. I was the recipient of that crap at the previous employer. At one time, their on call was a license to straggle you with unpaid applications updates that lasted three hours every day for five days of the week.
Different-Hyena-8724@reddit
That super cheap insurance for the company. Shit, that $100 probably wont even cover a full shift.
NoURider@reddit
When I dealt with it, I would pay others to take it.
Grateful I don't have to deal with it (same company).
I just know that if it afterhours/weekend and I get a call from a few choice numbers it's serious. Does not happen often, but when it does I saddle up.
IdiosyncraticBond@reddit
No on-call comp? Get out of there.
I would refuse. Or pick up the phone and answer I'll address this during the hours I get paid, starting tomorrow morning (or Monday when the issue arises Friday afternoon)
ninjaluvr@reddit
And you'd be fired.
IdiosyncraticBond@reddit
I wouldn't even want to work in such environments
ninjaluvr@reddit
And you wouldn't be. You would be looking for a job and struggling to pay rent.
MissionSpecialist@reddit
Or they'll find an employer willing to pay for the extra work they want, and their current employer might end up with enough turnover that they're forced to change how they handle on-call.
That's ultimately what happened with the American branch of my last company. 60% annual turnover and multiple project failures due to inability to retain staff eventually leads to changes.
ninjaluvr@reddit
Of course. Pop over to the recruiting hell subreddit... The market is bleak.
You might want to think about alternative ways to influence your current employer to change their behavior regarding how they handle on-call.
My point was that simply refusing gets you fired. Try talking. Build your case and present it. Clarify, take feedback and present again. Influence the organization you work in.
MissionSpecialist@reddit
I'm not OP, and my current employer knows that I expect to be paid for my time; It's something I cover early in the interview process.
We're an international team, most of us in countries where "salaried" is not code for "work me like a rented mule". I make sure that the American members of my team understand that if they're not getting paid for extra hours, they should be taking that time out of their regular workdays.
Until the US discovers developed world labour standards, it's the best I can do.
DrDontBanMeAgainPlz@reddit
No thanks.
Humble-Plankton2217@reddit
Depends on how often the Bat-Phone typically rings.
Rarely? $150 for the week.
Often? No. Nope. No Thanks.
tr3kilroy@reddit
There isn't a reasonable dollar amount you could pay me to take on call again. Like my 9 to 5 gig too much.
DrWieg@reddit
I wouldn't charge him anything on account of not taking his on-call hours.
MonitorZero@reddit
On call means my family has all their needs met. Luxuries for them are a must. Big yard, safe car for the wife and kids, big kitchen, never have to worry about money for clothes.
If I'm on call that's fine but my family better be taken well care of in exchange. Life is expensive. On-call pay is even more expensive.
buzzy_buddy@reddit
200 a week is how much it's worth to me. 5 man rotation.
bjc1960@reddit
GIven the current IT employment landscape in the USA, my answer is, "It is worth having a job."
GuyWhoSaysYouManiac@reddit
Is management even OK with this? As a manager of a team with an on call rotation I'd have some serious concerns about employees paying each other to take on parts of their roles. We all know that on call sucks, but it is part of the job, and sometimes that means everyone has to pull their weight. For us the person on call often cannot complete as much project work that week, so if somebody were to do more on call their project work would suffer. Whether that is OK depends entirely on the person and role, but management has to be careful when they start allowing exceptions unless they are willing to do this for everyone.
toliveagainnow@reddit (OP)
Just had a recent management change. But prior manager did scold him privately about trying to pay someone else to take his on-call.
kiddj1@reddit
In my early years I did it as often as I could to earn cash
But now no never again, I'm not paid enough to care during the day why would I do that during my down time
If he's going to pay you for the rotation just do it officially and get the full pay fuck getting a slice so they get paid for jack
toliveagainnow@reddit (OP)
No extra comp for the rotation. And it is official my-name-in-place-of-his for Service Desk to reach out.
kiddj1@reddit
One day you will look back fondly on the days of user support
Gullible_Ad7268@reddit
Lol, in Europe it's usually 200% of normal rate. For example you earn 9-5 50 eur/h and after hours you got paid 100eur for started hour resolving the issue. That's pretty normal. Second system is that during an OnCall you receive minimal wage if nothing happens plus regular ihr Rate if call happens.
nme_@reddit
I can’t sleep when I’m on call, and the anxiety of my phone making a noise sucks.
Thats-Not-Rice@reddit
I'd drop it tomorrow if I could. Doesn't matter what they want to pay me, it's not worth it.
That said, we get 1 hour of wage per weekday, 2 for saturday and sunday each. If a call happens and we can take care of it remotely, we get paid time for the call.
If we get a call and it ends up requiring a site visit, then we get a 4 hour minimum call-out.
On stat holidays, those hours all get done at time-and-a-half.
So a regular on-call will result in 9 hours of extra pay.
mikes1988@reddit
Our 1st line guys get about £450 a week they cover. Most weeks they'll get a call or two which require about 30 mins in total to fix.
If they end up getting multiple calls per night and are spending hours on the calls we do give them some overtime, or let them have some time off in lieu.
2nd line guys get about half of the 1st line payment and they rarely get a call escalated (we've a brilliant 1st line team 😊). They'll get paid OT for time spent on calls though.
Management are there in the background for escalations, a couple of us are SMEs in things like our ERP, the databases we use and the Linux environment. We don't get a retainer payment but it's part of our contract to be available where necessary. Nearly anything we would be called for is just advice and guidance of steps to take, I think that's fair enough.
LaxBroGotFlow@reddit
I get $100 a week on call, then whatever overtime that is accrued during said week. It’s not worth it, and it never is. Even the weeks I don’t get a single call while being on call isn’t worth it.
RansomStark78@reddit
Never if there is alot of work
Worked place where one call a month was high
ride4life32@reddit
When I was in my 20s I'd believed it was for the greater good and advancement. Now close to 40 I have taken a step back, especially after policy changes within a company. So there better be some sort of compensation unless it's a known you will be in a one week rotation every month or more but still to me there has to be something better.
EEU884@reddit
My on call is only a couple of hours a day and it is on the understanding that it is not normal coverage so if it is not a downtime call then don't bother me unless you want to get rekt. The bonus is small but the work is less.
ExpressDevelopment41@reddit
I'd pass. I have no issue swapping a rotation with someone if they have plans, since my colleagues do the same for me, but I'd be concerned about suddenly becoming the 'on-call' guy when leadership finds out. He hates it enough that he should understand a no thanks.
If I really liked the guy, and needed the money, I'd probably ask what he's willing to pay or trade for it. If he's got any automations or scripts that'll make your life easier, it could be worth it.
sffunfun@reddit
I had an employer who paid $350 for an on-call shift. I was like, you mean $350k right? RIGHT?!
Secret_Grapefruit906@reddit
it's just not worth it. Company makes big bucks off these contracts but you get fucked if you spend the whole night doing calls and then can't come in the day after because you had no sleep at all.
Mrwrongthinker@reddit
There is no price high enough.
winaje@reddit
I had this exact discussion nearly 5 years ago with my then on call rotation scheduler. I told him that I’ll do it for $5k in my bank after tax…
Sh1rvallah@reddit
You misspelled million
GloomySwitch6297@reddit
been there. never again. no matter of the price.
Doodleschmidt@reddit
This is the truth.
monkey5511@reddit
Same as I charge for any overtime: 3x my normal rate.
chum-guzzling-shark@reddit
I've never been paid enough to be on-call where I wasnt completely willing to pay that same amount back to the company to NOT be on call.
Achsin@reddit
If he’s retiring in December that’s 3 or 4 extra on call weeks. I’d probably ask $250/week to start but I’d take $100.
Then again I don’t really mind being on call and I’ve spent the last year and a half fixing things to the point where I can go several weeks on call without being paged.
three-one-seven@reddit
Last time I changed jobs, I was making right around $100k, 100% remote at the time but seemed likely to RTO in the next year, and never on call. The new job came with a 50% raise and was 100% remote with no threat of RTO, but I have to be in an on-call rotation. I took the job, obviously lol
Your on-call rotation sounds exactly like mine btw
Hebrewhammer8d8@reddit
If I own the business and on call, it has a high profit margin.
wisym@reddit
I do on call every 8 weeks or so. Usually it's a service reset if we get a call. I guess it really depends on how busy your on calls are. I typically only get 2 or 3 calls during that week and they're almost always during the day on the weekend.
kerosene31@reddit
I hate on call too. The problem isn't the occasional urgent call, it is that being on call means being stuck to a phone.
Can't go to a movie in case you get a call (ok, not as big a deal with streaming)
Better not go for a long walk outside
Can't have any adult beverages (I know a few people who lost their jobs this way).
It is what being on call means. The calls themselves aren't really the problem.
PokeT3ch@reddit
Alot, it's worth ALOT.
davidm2232@reddit
I told my boss I'd need my salary doubled to do on call every other week.
bindermichi@reddit
It‘s worth not accepting jobs with on-call duties to me.
PM-ME-DAT-ASS-PIC@reddit
After hours? That's my life - What else am I doing if not having access to my free time? Pay Rate 3x
Sprucecaboose2@reddit
I don't really do on call stuff anymore. My new company is pretty solid so far on trying to respect people's off time. I don't think I'll go back? Like, I understand emergencies, it's IT, shit is going to break at some point. But routinely giving up my plans and relaxation time... unless the economy starts tanking even harder and I really need the money.
Valdaraak@reddit
If it's anything other than "emergencies only, and 'literally everything is down' is the only emergency that counts", that's a no-go.
I'm technically on-call all the time, but I also have free reign to ignore anything I don't deem a business emergency. There's only four people I'll answer after hours calls from and they've never abused it. I don't response to anything else unless it's "everything is down" or something similar.
Solkre@reddit
Zero. Work is work, home is home.
joshtheadmin@reddit
Fuck on call and every greedy ass executive committing their IT to this hell.
Maelkothian@reddit
10% of my regular hourly wage on weekdays, 15% on weekends and when the phone rings my normal wage for a minimum of 2 hours.
skiitifyoucan@reddit
Almost everyone at my company in tech is on call to some extent. If we are having a problem we can’t trace even developers will have to get pulled in.
Dariuscardren@reddit
where I am at primary is $50/day and secondary is $25/day. But that only started like 3 years ago. the other 5 years was free :(
zedarzy@reddit
You ask how much it is "worth" yet are not compensated for on-call by your employer. Hilarious
exseven@reddit
I get $30/day, 35 on weekends and holidays (I think)
Time and a half, 3hr minimum if called out, but I don't usually bill if I'm at home doing nothing and it takes 10 minutes. Make mental lieu time instead.
zonz1285@reddit
Depends on your financial situation. If you’re comfortable or better, I’d say no amount of money is worth the potential disaster 2 weeks you’ll be covering out of every 10 weeks.
hosalabad@reddit
We earn $700 a week for it. Rotation is five weeks. I get about five calls a year.
aRandom_redditor@reddit
I answer for my director and the ceo only and without fail and they’ve allowed me great flexibility because of it. They also know I’d quit if I was forced into mandatory on-call for gen pop.
VplDazzamac@reddit
My last job was £400 per week with x1.5 with a 1 hour minimum for any actual calls. That was 24x7 one week in four.
Current role is 5am-5pm one week in 6 and I get squat for it. I’d rather not have it at all, but I’ve rarely been pinged at weekends and my evenings are permanently free because colleagues on a different continent pick up.
julioqc@reddit
Price is finding a new job without on-call or afterhours
bawta@reddit
For reference I get £300/week for being on call PLUS either 1.5 (6pm-12am) or 2x (12am-6am or all day Sunday) my hourly rate if I get a call of any kind - minimum of 30m chargeable so even a simple password reset is 30m x15/2x my rate. That is more than worth it to me, I am on a rota with 3 others so roughly once per month.
domainnamesandwich@reddit
I think it depends on (for me):
How many weeks of the year.
What specifically does on-call entail.
Is it a flat-fee + TOIL or only when called.
Specific SLA's.
I'm currently on about 8% flat fee and I get TOIL if called.
Honestly I don't think it's worth it, but I was slightly hoodwinked about what the on-call entitled. Won't be making that mistake again (hopefully).
sandpaper90@reddit
I don’t live to work, unless the on-call stipend is super cushy, you can’t pay me enough to want to do it. I routinely pay my co workers 2-400$ to take my shifts so I can actually enjoy my life. And I’m decades from retirement.
I’d rather spend my life living and doing what I’d like to do in my limited time on this planet and not be a slave to my phone going off at any time. 40-45 hrs a week is already enough of my time that my employer gets. Im not giving them any more than that.
Unhappy_Clue701@reddit
“Company removed any extra compensation for on-call”. Then don’t do any on-call.
Megablep@reddit
£40 a weekday, £60 for weekend days. There's a few of us on rotation so it's only every few weeks, and if you get a call it's a guaranteed minimum hour of OT.
It's not great, but it's not terrible considering how little we actually get called. If it started to get busy I'd probably ask to come off the rota, as I value my free time much more.
VelvetOnion@reddit
Our MSP had to drop us, so i deliberately pitched taking on the calls for out of hours amongst the team. Now they know how much it'll cost and never want to suggest it.
Profa_Neo@reddit
i usually ask 400% on normal hour rate and additonal fixed engagement rate so i still get paid even if there are no calls .
YaqutFan@reddit
I'd rather not do it, but I get a decent base pay just for being available, plus any actual work coming from an after-hours call counts as overtime.
The rotation is also decently lenient, I have to be on-call for one week straight and then I get rotated our for the next three weeks.
MrCertainly@reddit
As someone who did on-call for nearly a decade, fuck that noise.
Never. fucking. again.
vagueAF_@reddit
Extra $600 per week.
Given the cost of living now I don't really go out much now so it's worth it.
Calm_Run93@reddit
how much is 10% of your life worth ?
Just-BNA-bailz@reddit
$0.00
ThatAJC88@reddit
I've been permanent on call for the better part of 8 years. It's the worst, truly ruins your ability to relax and unwind. Avoid on call like the plague, ESPECIALLY if you have kids. Theirs nothing worse than working a Xmas day or Easter weekend. No amount of money could convince me on call is a good idea.
Zealousideal_Ad642@reddit
I used to be paid $350 a week for oncall and then hourly rate for each call taken.
It wasn't enough and as u/Mrwrongthinker states, there is no price high enough
anothercopy@reddit
One of the reasons I moved to architecture role was that I don't do on-call. Nevertheless that company paid 1%of your monthly salary for each day oncall plus any hours you had to do something were counted as overtime.
Immediate-Serve-128@reddit
One place used to pay me $250 for the week. Then my hourly rate X 1.5 between 5pm-9pm, 2x after and on Saturdays and Mondays.
Not even close to enough money.
barleykiv@reddit
You can do it for a while, think it’s nice the money, but soon or later you will realize it doesn’t worth
HearthCore@reddit
Boss wanted me specifically for on call. I made the joke I’d maybe consider it for 400 bucks a week. He agreed. He had to honor the same price tag for my peers aswell. I haven’t had one on call rotation, my team is well compensated though😹
BrilliantWorth7590@reddit
$650 standby rate and 4 hours min is my current
Anonymo123@reddit
When I was younger without family, whatever I got was good. One company was $500 a week. Now, no thanks...I don't answer my phone after I'm done for the day.
Emergency-Swim-4284@reddit
The real question should be "How much is your health, sanity and time with your loved ones worth?". Those cannot be bought or replaced. Companies forcing on-call with bad terms and conditions are abusing and exploition their staff.
When paid on-call was introduced at the company I work for, I told them that if the compensation was not enough I'd pay someone else to do on-call. At the time they were discussing it, they were thinking of only paying around $100/month and because there were only two people in each IT team it would have meant being on-call for half of every month.
I told them in clear terms that my personal time and health is worth way more than $100/month and they need to go sharpen their pencils. They increased it to around $500 per month which I considered a good enough compromise seeing that there are very few incidents in a month and I don't drink. :)
HauntingAd6535@reddit
For a period of time we tried a single person, me, for weekend on call since we had a grave shift, M-F. Compensation was only being on shift, in office, 2 days a week (whenever, M-F) so, paid for 5 days (3 days off to myself.) Doing the math, it worked out to a significant pay raise! Really wasn't worth it because the offshore team would engage me for every little thing - 5 times a weekend, minimum! I put that crap to bed real quick! I still don't turn my ringer on from that anxiety.
pinnedin5th@reddit
Heap's, it's fucks the whole week, can't go out for dinner or go to the beach, can't get drunk..
TireFryer426@reddit
Only one place we ever got compensated for it and I think they gave us $350. If I could pay someone $100 a week I’d do that shit every time
SupremeBeing13@reddit
Fuck on-call
TrappedOnARock@reddit
It kind of depends on how many on-call requests you get on average and how complex the issues are on average (relative to your role). What does that look like for you?
toliveagainnow@reddit (OP)
My last rotation consisted of one after hours call at 5:30 am. That took 5 minutes work, then another 5 minutes follow-up.
-Alevan-@reddit
You guys get paid for it???
OpacusVenatori@reddit
Do you care about possibly using him as a professional reference later on in your career? Would he be helpful to you?
toliveagainnow@reddit (OP)
I'm late in my career, so expecting this to be last job. 2-3 year horizon, although depending on what RTO policy turns out to be, could retire in 6 months.
FriendlyITGuy@reddit
My last MSP gig I was on call every few weeks, then once we grew a large enough it was 2-3 times a year. Compensated $50 for each call. I never had anything that lasted more than an hour or two which even then was rare. But I'd get alert calls from the NOC overnight and end up with anywhere from $50-800 extra dollars in my paycheck. Worth it.
Currently org I'm on call every 7-8 weeks and get paid a flat $250 extra for the week. I have yet to ever take a call. But I do need to be available 830-1 on Saturdays when I am for additional support as needed. Not a big deal.
TheBrianiac@reddit
I used to do it once every 6 weeks for 10% of salary.
GullibleDetective@reddit
Time and a half your salary. Automatic 1.5 hours per shift. On call once every six weeks. We also get the choice to bank our time.
When it comes to getting payment we can apply it to the quarter or next pay period
Quartzalcoatl_Prime@reddit
10% base pay while on-call that week. I’m back to normal pay from the second I’m called to the second I get home.
On-call week usually ends up at 40 hours at 100% pay and then 128 hours on-call/10%.
Or at least that’s what I currently have.
chesser45@reddit
Not, but our team has finally succumbed to it. Luckily so far it’s been fairly quiet and it’s split among 6 people. That said it’s 3 weeks in and we’ve already had to trade shifts around because pager cramps the opportunity of many activities.
Firenzzz@reddit
I do get some extra money for my on-call. Avg 1-2 weeks per month 24/7. Usually I take one week (so that I have said two a month) from my US colleague cause he doesn’t get paid extra at all. The phone never rings, well, once every 1.5 years. I’d say an okay deal.
Bootlegcrunch@reddit
In my 20s I had on call in a contract. I remember a fire that basically ran through the whole of Christmas day. Never again.
Zoltech06@reddit
My sorry company pushed it on us with no extra benefits. Basically told me sorry but you're salary.
PoolMotosBowling@reddit
Depends on average calls/issues.
xxMORAG_BONG420xx@reddit
Personally if a position has oncall I expect something like a $20k uplift in salary and at most one week out of the month. I really don’t like oncall either. So in this scenario it would be like $1666 a month to take on his share of oncalls. Putting the math to paper now that seems like a lot and I would never actually pay that to get out of them but I just wouldn’t want to be put in that situation in the first place since I value my free time.