Thousands protest in Israel over ‘attack on democracy’ by Netanyahu
Posted by F0urLeafCl0ver@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 376 comments
Posted by F0urLeafCl0ver@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 376 comments
sxnmc@reddit
Love how no part of the protests is about opposing genocide. Deranged, fascist nation. They have the exact leadership they deserve.
Siman421@reddit
Fuck Bibi He's a cunt, who should be in prison. He is basically Israel's trump, except he's not an idiot, though he might even be more malicious. This is coming from an Israeli btw, and is the predominant opinion inside Israel.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
“Israel's trump” implies Israel isn’t built on the utter destruction of a native people and enslavement of innocent outsiders-
…
On second thought
Siman421@reddit
How does Israel's trump imply that? How is Israel built on the destruction of natives and enslavement of innocents? You seem to forget the massacres of the 1920's against the Jews, the fact that land wasn't stolen, is was bought (pre 1948) and in 1948, a 2 state solution existed, was rejected by Palestinians, and they started a war with Israel that they then lost, costing them territory they would've had if they didn't start a war. On top of that, what slavery has there been in Israel? And isn't America specifically built on destruction of natives and enslavement of innocent outsiders?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Oh my god you’re actually serious.
Not even going to give you the dignity of an argument. My black ass has seen these lies before against us. Now you’re shouting them at Palestinians and Arabs. The fuck are they bombing Lebanon anyway? They’re not on their so called “Promised land”, no different from white colonizers. Those people are white colonizers
DorkHarshly@reddit
Funny shit
Lol dont worry what you are doing is not an argument. Just a stream of conscience.
Ever heard of Hezbollah? Before Israel attacked Lebanon, they daily hurled rockets on us. At a certain point of time, about 200k people were evacuated. I think now most of them are back now...
Promised shmomised. Can you answer a simple question? Where the jews are from. You can use cheat notes.
Sidenote: I love how every comment i see from you here is a racist one. Chefs kiss.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
*there was no hezbollah before israel attacked lebanon
that was the point tho right? israel will never pass up the opportunity to manufacture a threat
DorkHarshly@reddit
I was referring to current round... But even '82 was due to attacks from Lebanon... by PLO. How convenient that if it is a different organization, the credibility disappears... Almost seems like its intentional.
Thats strange, how would you explain the fact that DNA is traceable? The first ever distributed DNA? Space lazers?
your_red_triangle@reddit
yet it's illegal to get a DNA test in Israel. wonder what they're worried about...
DorkHarshly@reddit
Where did you get this Ivan? from you operator? LOL
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-no-dna-tests-230000258.html
Why would they worry, people can convert to judaism.. its just a lengthy process, not like Christianity where you dip in water and youre good to go.
Also, not ALL jews have horns and drink the blood of christian babies.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
No one even said that, what???
your_red_triangle@reddit
the terrorist country that lies about everything doesn't want it's people to freely get DNA tests. But will happily inject black women with birth control without their permission.
DorkHarshly@reddit
Further confirmation that genetic testing is not outright illegal in Israel, but regulated for specific medical and preventive purposes, can be found on Israel's Ministry of Health website. ...
To summarise... this is to protect your privacy. And again... One can convert without need of DNA... so maybe you can explain who took the jelly out of your brain?
Now ask me about space lazers, Ivan. Or my horns. Or blood of christian babies.
your_red_triangle@reddit
another terrorist lying site... will it include information about the 40 beheaded babies too?
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
How convenient that poor little Israel gets attacked all the time for no reason whatsoever! Must be antisemitism!!!
It's strange to think that not every jew sprouted out of the ground in one place?
Okay lol
GothicGolem29@reddit
I think it’s safe to say Hezbollah and Hamas are anti Semitic… there’s many arguments for this but just one powerful one is is they align with the openly anti Semtic Houthis(see their flag.)
DorkHarshly@reddit
Sarcasm 10/10
Content 0/10
Getting sloppy
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
I believe the correct accusation here is "Anti-white".
Grow a pair. Make your ancestors from the Klan proud. Don’t squiggle and squirm because someone doesn’t agree with your racism and white supremacy
Inferno_Sparky@reddit
They're not "white colonizers" just "colonizers". We have a bunch of mizrahi jews and other ethnicities who, part of the time, are more brown than white
zackweinberg@reddit
You’re incapable of creating an argument. Stop trying to deflect from your ignorance.
Otto_Von_Waffle@reddit
Jews getting killed does not excuse Isreal crimes, if tomorrow African American started killing white Americans slavery wouldn't excuse it.
While it's true that Palestinians somewhat refused the two state solution, the situation is extremely messy because Palestinians never had a real say in it, Palestine wasn't a state Britain allowed jews to settle the land without asking Palestinians if they were okay.
To make a comparison, it's like if Britain allowed thousands of Indians into Scotland, then gave Scotland its independence but split it down the middle to create an Indian Scotland without ever asking native Scots how they felt about it.
Siman421@reddit
When someone attacks you, you attack back. That's why Jews have attacked Arabs in the past, because the Arabs fucking attacked first.
Palestinians would've gotten most of the agricultural land, while Israel would've been 50% desert. They got the better end of the deal, they just didn't want it, despite no Palestinians living in what would've been Israel, because it would've meant accepting Israels existence, something Hamas refuses to do even today.
Your comparison is misleading. It would be like if Britain let Indians into Scotland, the Indians then settling on uninhabited parts of Scotland, and then wanting those parts to be independent. If the Scots aren't using that land, and someone else is, the Scots don't really need a say, as it doesn't affect them since they never used the land.
That's what happened in Israel. Jews came in and settled unused land, they even dried out swamps, and then wanted that land to be independent.
The land loss by the palestinains happened only because of them starting a war and losing it.
HaxboyYT@reddit
The only reason Israel has the demographics it does today is because it ethnically cleansed half the Palestinian population and subjugated the rest, most remaining under brutal occupation for decades
The number of Palestinians killed by Zionist terror groups, and later the IDF pales in comparison
That’s a bloody lie. Only 6.6% of the land was owned by Jewish people/groups
They rejected a resolution they had no say in, proposed by colonial powers that told them to give up half their homeland to settler-colonialists who blatantly said they would attack them for further expansion later on. Who could blame them?
You’re blaming people for using their right to self-determination, to self-determine
They didn’t start the war. This is ahistorical nonsense, as Israel had been ethnically cleansing Palestinians for 6 months prior to the 1948 war
BlackJesus1001@reddit
They also continue to push policies aiming to keep the arabic demographic below 20% of the population to suppress their voting power and maintain their "Jewish character"
Scratch the surface of Israeli policy and there's a surprising amount of openly apartheid style laws controlling where non Jews can live, how many can gain citizenship and so on.
Siman421@reddit
a British guy telling an israeli the history of israel??
classic.
your_red_triangle@reddit
Israel would have no history if it wasn't for the British.... should be more grateful
Siman421@reddit
Says the Irish guy🤣
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Oy its zionist bingo
Siman421@reddit
Oy it's the Irish guy who pretends to be Israeli. I see you changed your profile photo
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
I wish I was a hibernian
And thanks I look very handsome in it
podba@reddit
It's not. Thank you for noticing.
soyyoo@reddit
What’s r/israelcrimes doing on 🇵🇸 land for 70+ years?
podba@reddit
The Hodor of repetitive posting is back again. Hodor.
soyyoo@reddit
So you can’t dispute 70+ years of r/israelcrimes on 🇵🇸 land?? Got it 🤷♀️
podba@reddit
HODOR
soyyoo@reddit
See, you can’t 🤷♀️
podba@reddit
L'Hodor
soyyoo@reddit
Crazy is supporting 70+ years of r/israelcrimes on 🇵🇸 land without being able to dispute it, but Zionist are like that, and also decapitate innocent children and rape hostages to death, terrible
podba@reddit
Hodor?
soyyoo@reddit
See, can’t dispute that Zionist decapitate innocent children neither 🤷♀️
podba@reddit
Hodor...
soyyoo@reddit
No critical thinking helps Zionist with decapitating innocent children
podba@reddit
Hodor!
soyyoo@reddit
Lol not a single neuron in there 😹😹😹
GothicGolem29@reddit
???? They are pointing out how you keep repeating yourself and posting that sub over and over that doesn’t mean they have no neurons
soyyoo@reddit
Ooo we have the same conversations everyday, hodr is all they got 😹
GothicGolem29@reddit
I doubt that’s all they got but you posting the same exact comment(potentially copy and paste) and copying the same link over and over is gonna get you reactions like Hodor
soyyoo@reddit
I mean, there were variation to my messages vs their exact same one so…
GothicGolem29@reddit
Your first reply to them I swear I have seen like 5 times if not more at this stage. That’s why you got that reply. And heck even after that a couple messages you kept posting the link and you kept repeating the point from your original comment just phrased differently
soyyoo@reddit
Facts are facts 🤷♀️
GothicGolem29@reddit
You don’t need to say fact repeatedly in the same format. It would be like if I spammed Hamas are terrorists then link a Hamas terrorism sub under every post. Sure it’s factually correct but saying it over and over again isn’t necessary.
soyyoo@reddit
I mean, it’s the same arguments with the same facts with the same Zionist bots trying to control the narrative on Reddit so zzz
GothicGolem29@reddit
But other pro Palestinians on this sub are making your arguments but without posting the same sub and same comments over snd over
soyyoo@reddit
Again, facts are facts 🤷♀️
GothicGolem29@reddit
You don’t need to spam facts in the same exact comment repeatedly.
soyyoo@reddit
I mean, if it’s related to the topic at hand…
GothicGolem29@reddit
Doesn’t mean it needs to be said in the same exact way over and over. You can be informative without that. And you aren’t really convincing anybody when you say he same thing over and over as you just get responses based on the fact you say things over and over
soyyoo@reddit
I mean, there are many variations to the facts. I’m sad to hear the truth about r/israelexposed is bothersome to you, but imagine being an innocent child being decapitated by r/israelcrimes, that’s worse
GothicGolem29@reddit
Its not any truth thats bothersome its you typing the same links repeatedly and even repeating whole comments half a dozen or a dozen times…. Many people speak about crimes without doing that
soyyoo@reddit
Link is part of the truth, no?
GothicGolem29@reddit
Its not necessarry tho you can tell your truth without it.
soyyoo@reddit
Reinforcing the truth with r/israelcrimes add a detailed touch to facts ✨
GothicGolem29@reddit
Its not a needed detail you can make your points without it or use links to articles rather than posting it so much. Most of this sub does not do what you do with that link
soyyoo@reddit
But it’s a very welcomed one 🥂
GothicGolem29@reddit
I dont think it is tbh. You have multiple people calling you out for typing the same comments repeatedly yet ive yet to see anyone for always posting that link
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Why are you defending this barbarism?
GothicGolem29@reddit
What barbarism do you think I’m defending??? I’m pointing out the guy above is having his or repeated to them not because the person above has no neurons but because they repeatedly repeat their comments and keep posting that link in most comments that is NOT defending barbarism
podba@reddit
Hodorrrrr.
wheatley_labs_tech@reddit
If you wanted to imply that the person you're replying to is somehow mentally disabled, you'd need to quote it, like this -
Otherwise, it sounds like YOU are the one who has, let's say, trouble thinking.
Since you're found of one-line replies, here's one that should follow you around for the rest of your life, as a proud ~~wermacht~~ IOF reservist:
WCNSF - "Wounded child, no surviving family"
That's what you stand for.
podba@reddit
Joke went way over your head. Unsurprising since you’re also unable to connect the thread between people using human shields and those human shields dying.
wheatley_labs_tech@reddit
"joke" is being generous. FYI, not being funny is not the same thing as being too cool for the room.
Oh, I'm quite able to connect that thread. israel loves doing that, after all
^^^in ^^^b4 ^^^humanitarian ^^^organizations ^^^are ^^^all ^^^hamas
You, on the other hand, are seemingly unable to connect the thread between "indiscriminate bombing of civilians" + "if we sprinkle a little 'hamas' afterwards it's cool" = "israel never commits war crimes because we post-hoc define our targets as legal"
I understand if you don't want to deal with that reality, I imagine it'd be hard to deal with the absolute immorality of it.
WCNSF
soyyoo@reddit
Not even quarks 😹😹😹
GothicGolem29@reddit
Or maybe it’s that you post the same comments over and over and that sub over and over……
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Bro is white speaking perfect English but insists he’s indigenous to the Middle East 🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿😂😂😂
GothicGolem29@reddit
??? Indigenous people can learn perfect English….
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
He is white
He is WHITE
You’re a dumbass
🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿🤣😆😂
GothicGolem29@reddit
The person literally told you they aren’t white idk why you think thy are
Israelis can be non white. I most certainly did not colonise Africa I was born after the British empire
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
And I can say I'm not African all I want, I still am
GothicGolem29@reddit
If someone you have not met says they aren’t white then really they should be beleived. They know their race better than you
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
White people in Isntrael insist they “Aren’t white” and look like this I think I would know better
GothicGolem29@reddit
But you haven’t met this guy right? So you can’t know what they look like bar what they say. So if they say they aren’t white they should be beleived not whatever it is your doing
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Nice copy-paste weirdo
GothicGolem29@reddit
I don’t copy and paste
GothicGolem29@reddit
But you haven’t met this guy right? So you can’t know what they look like bar what they say. So if they say they aren’t white they should be beleived not whatever it is your doingb
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Meh, I can infer.
Same shit with white South Africans invading South Africa. Same shit with the British invading the planet. Same MO, same look, same damn lies levied against the victims.
GothicGolem29@reddit
You can’t infer someone’s skin colour from texts…..
podba@reddit
The person you're responding to is so dumb he's taking the name of the Nubian empire, which is where Sudan is today, while most African Americans are actually descendants of West Africans stolen into slavery, and have zero relation to Nubian culture, language, or history.
And not that they have anything to be ashamed of, because the Yoruba empire, the Mali empire, The Kingdom of Benin, were all hugely developed civilisations. But he's dumb and race obsessed, so the best you get is something he saw in Michael Jackson's "Remember the Time" videoclip.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Didn’t pay much attention to the name lol was too focussed on their strange comments but yeah your right.
Geez that is late for slavery to be abolshied….
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Tell me something I don't know.
I really don't gaf about my name, I just thought Nubian_Cavalry sounded cool. Most white people have names completely divorced from their actual heritage of Briton/Roman/Germanic/Nordic/whatever-the-fuck lice headed tribe they're from.
Like you, you people have names that sound like they're from star wars when I am in fact more likely to have actual, full blooded Jewish ancestors than your white ass. Not because I'm jewish, but because my ancestors may have actually set foot in the Middle East occasionally. By virtue of being closer.
Yours were stuck in the caves of Europe getting bullied by Romans and Vikings and the technologically superior Arabic, Middle Eastern folks, unable to even take a shower until sometime 1400 AD.
podba@reddit
lol. Sure. Telling levites who can trace they’re vikings makes a lot of sense if you have brain worms.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿🤣😆😂
natasharevolution@reddit
The majority of Israelis are brown, not white.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿😂😂😂
SirStupidity@reddit
What the fuck bro
HennesIX@reddit
What kind of bullshit idea is that. Are brown people too stupid to learn English so he must be white? Is that what you’re saying?
podba@reddit
Correct. It's called education. I learned English starting in the 4th grade! Guess what I also speak some Arabic, a bit of Korean, and a bit of Twi.
That's what happens when you're educated.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿😂😂😂
podba@reddit
I'm not white, I'm Middle Easter. A Person of Colour.
I'm educated because I'm educated. Speaking multiple languages is not a racial issue, but an education issue. In fact, most Africans are fluent in 3-4 languages at least because of the way tribes and borders work. You'd know that if you had a tiny bit of experience outside your pathetic race obsessed internet bubble.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿😂😂😂
total47@reddit
You mean the land that was won in a war that was initiated by the Arabs?
soyyoo@reddit
Read JSTOR, a reliable database, to learn about 🇵🇸 rich history dating back many centuries
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
You can’t say “Might makes right” then bitch and cry when the Palestinians actually decide to defend themselves from your white European donkey ass
podba@reddit
I'm not saying might makes right, and Jews are in no way European.
Rape and beheading teenagers isn't defence either.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Then why do you do it to Palestinians? Especially in your prison camps?
Naijan@reddit
Source that Israelis behead Palestinians?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
You want a source on why the sky is blue too?
Siman421@reddit
Man you suck at arguing. You prove nothing, every time someone challenges you , you say you won't engage, you provide no information, and you keep assuming you're correct.
Are you mentally ok? Are you aware how a conversation works?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
No reason to honor a white supremacist with mutual conversation
Siman421@reddit
Most Israelis aren't white my dude. But I'm not the first here to school you, and then for you to retreat like a coward when you have no response.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
I see you’re still… challenged.
My guy, just say the words. Make your ancestors proud. Don’t squiggle and squirm and cry because someone disagrees with your racism
Siman421@reddit
Says the guy who thinks all of Israel is white.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Yes it is an established white ethnostate controlled by white people with a negligible number of black and brown people that yall also hate and use as cannon fodder. Like the United States
And the sky is blue
Naijan@reddit
It's interesting how someone like you who tries to look like they are anti-racist, is very quick to assume colour of the skin by text and then also very quick to dismiss said person, even if they aren't white.
You aren't doing Palestine a service at all, I would claim rhetoric like this further infuriates and causes more lives in the end.
But ofcourse, I know you don't care. You are not interested in learning. You just wanna spew racism. "White people this, white people that."
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
I don’t think you’re the one to tell me if I’m doing Palestine a service or not
Naijan@reddit
Yeah I mean continue what you are doing, my opinion is leaning further away while I lean more and more pro-Israel.
But maybe you are like one of these advanced Hasbara/mossad-trolls that make me believe more in the Israeli cause than the Palestinian one.
Shine on, you crazy diamond!
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
I mean, after what they’ve done, if you’re “Leaning” towards pro Israel, you always were. You were just looking for an excuse.
Naijan@reddit
No, I was Pro-Palestine before, believe it or not.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Sure you were
Naijan@reddit
Downvoting me eh?
Seriously, what are you doing here? Being as racist as you can, because you claim you are black?
You are simply here in bad faith.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Disagreeing with you =/= bad faith.
Like I said, If you hate Palestine so much why do you think you’re the one to tell me if I’m doing them a service or not?
Siman421@reddit
Nice copy paste job
HaxboyYT@reddit
They don’t behead Palestinians, they just but bullets in their skulls or blow them to pieces
GothicGolem29@reddit
If this is the predominant opinon how has he managed to win so many elections? Or is this opinon a new one?
ShikaStyleR@reddit
He didn't win elections. The way the parliamentary system works in Israel means that he managed to build coalitions without having majority support
GothicGolem29@reddit
He got the most votes out of any one party tho so that seems to me like winning. Sure he needed a coalition but he still won by getting the most votes which allowed him to get a coalition .
ShikaStyleR@reddit
Youre not wrong, but in 2019 he lost, twice. Still managed to stay PM because of technicality. In 2020 he couldn't build a coalition. In 2021, he won, couldn't build a coalition and his rival Yair Lapid was prime minister briefly. And then in 2022 he won, which led us to where we are now.
What I'm trying to demonstrate is that Israeli society definitely isn't fully supportive of Netanyahu. It took him 5 failed elections before he could actually win (by joining forces with the far right and the religious parties)
GothicGolem29@reddit
Interesting thanks for that fair enough then. A bit crazy he was able to lose but still stay in gov. Handed remember Yair Lapid getting in didn’t realise he lost thanks.
Fair enough I get your point
ShikaStyleR@reddit
So basically if he can't build a coalition the rival gets the opportunity to build one, if the rival can't do it either, the country goes for a reelection.
The difference in the Israeli parliamentary system (similar to the Dutch one) is that until that election, the last PM stays. Because Israel went through so many failed elections in the past decade and a half, Netanyahu stayed in power despite not winning
podba@reddit
He hasn't won many elections per se, he was just reading to give the ultra orthodox parties all of their demands. They just go with the highest bidder. That's how he "won" in 2009 and 2015.
between 2015-2022 he has not "won" any elections, but in fact lost of them, with the opposing side repeatedly getting more votes and was unable to form a government. Except he is a brilliant politician (that's the only thing he's good at) so he was able to sabotage the other side from creating their own government.
In 2022 he won the elections because the leftist parties split, and one of them fell under the electoral threshold. His current government is based on 48% of the votes, because so many votes were thrown away on smaller parties.
Basically he's a very good politician, and that's that. At no point in his career did he have a wide mandate for himself or his party.
GothicGolem29@reddit
It can’t be just giving into their demands(tho that’s a big part of it) because Netanyahus party got more votes in 2021 than any other party. Ahhh ok that left splitting makes sense thanks.
He had managed to get more people to vote for his party than any other in at least 2021 tho. So while not a huge mandate for some reason people keep deciding to vote for him over any one other party
italianNinja1@reddit
He is not Israel Trump. He is what Israeli elected, hence what Israel wants. Also today the Likud is the first party according to polls.
Siman421@reddit
Are you aware of how a party system works? He has received in the past, at most, 30% of the votes, That means 70% didn't vote for him. And why is he not Israel's trump?
Stubbs94@reddit
Wasn't the most extreme, Genocidal party 3rd in overall voting.... And aren't they currently in the coalition?
Siman421@reddit
And yet, they didn't receive the majority of votes either. They received around 10% support. That means 90% of the country disagrees with the extreme party.
So stop generalising
Stubbs94@reddit
Did the majority of the country disagree with the mass murder in Gaza?
Siman421@reddit
The majority of the country wants the hostages back. If Hamas won't return them, ear is inevitable, and given how Hamas acts, civilian casualties are inevitable too, although highly tragic. Good thing the current ratio of combatants to civilians dead is around 1:2, less than any conflict in history, per the numbers coming from Hamas themselves.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
You guys are always so hilariously over the top it's amazing
Not less than hamas numbers on octobuh 7 tho
Siman421@reddit
ratio man.
the ratio of combatants to civilians from oct 7 is around 1:5.
thats more than 1:2
do you need a math lesson?
bathtubsplashes@reddit
October 7th was a 2:1 death ratio, 797 of 1180 deaths
Here's one for you, 35 of the 1180 were children under the age of 18 killed. That's 3% of the total number
I wonder what that % looks like in Gaza.
Siman421@reddit
That's more than 2:1
Hamas took a baby hostage, Are there any babies in Israeli prison?
bathtubsplashes@reddit
That is 67.5%
2:1 is 66.6%
It is literally less than a percent over 2:1
Israel are absolutely 1000% in excess of that figure too
Siman421@reddit
Per what I formation is Israel in excess of that number? I base it on the combatant count from the idf, and the total count coming from Hamas. What do you know that the people in Gaza don't?
bathtubsplashes@reddit
Peer reviewed Lancet study estimated the death toll at over 64,000 last June! That was 9 months ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/10/gaza-death-toll-40-higher-than-official-number-lancet-study-finds
Hamas had a force of 25,000 total. I don't see how Israel killing another 1000 people since they broke the ceasefire doesn't indicate they haven't come close to killing 20,000 of that total force
Siman421@reddit
Hamas had a force of 40k , not 25k. A peer reviewed study from people who aren't in Gaza, have never been to Gaza, or counted any of the casualties, is pretty much instantly refuted by the fact that Hamas doesn't use that number, despite all the incentive to do so.
There was another Lancet study that claimed 186k, why not use that one??
bathtubsplashes@reddit
Hamas don't use that number because they count bodies and there's thousands of bodies they can't count under the rubble. Crazily enough, that's what happens when you level a densely populated area to dust.
That other study is considering the total death total considering all factors. Factors like blocking medical aid, electricity and water into the area. Something Israel are currently doing, and admitting to it.
https://www.dni.gov/nctc/ftos/hamas_fto.html#:~:text=Primarily%20in%20the%20Gaza%20Strip,Egypt%2C%20Qatar%2C%20and%20Turkey.&text=HAMAS%20probably%20has%20fewer%20than%2020%2C000%20fighters.
Siman421@reddit
hamas, the group with every incentive to lie about casualty numbers, and have no one to dispute them, dont use a number that would benefit them because they didnt count the bodies?
hamas dont use that number because they cant.
find me another country that gives aid to the one they are fighting during a war. does russia supply ukraine with water? electricity? anything? why should a country provide its at the time enemy with anything?
fighters, not members.
just as intelligence officers are idf soldiers too, so are non fighting hamas members still hamas members.
bathtubsplashes@reddit
If that's the case October 7th was below 2:1, considering the idf reservists being killed obviously were valid targets under your own criteria.
You're painting a pretty picture here, all the way on up there on your higher moral ground with....Russia?! Definitely the good guys here
Here you go though, just to clear things up for you
The Geneva Convention
"To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate"
Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
"Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including willfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions" is a war crime"
Sounds like war crimes and shitting all over humanitarian law to me
And finally Hamas have no motive to inflate the numbers past what they can prove to be accurate now that the territory is totally levelled and they don't have the infrastructure to count the dead. Why? Because contrary to popular belief, this did not start on Oct 7th and the next time conflict kicks off they want to be able to maintain international trust in their numbers. I've the following template saved since December of 2023 when all the pro-Israel crowd were screaming you can't trust Hamas numbers
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-officials-have-growing-confidence-in-death-toll-reports-from-gaza-b3b5183a
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23940215/israel-palestine-gaza-hamas-death-toll-war-fatalities-verified-count-conflict
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/world/gaza-death-toll-accuracy-unicef-intl-hnk/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/26/can-we-trust-casualty-figures-from-the-hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry
Siman421@reddit
reservists not currently being used in reserves arent valid targets, they are citizens. reservists actually serving are valid, but the ones killed on oct7 werent active. active non combatants and reservists are not the same.
if hamas had no incentive to lie, why did they lie about the hospital casualty count within 2 weeks of the war?
ive had this saved for a while, but enjoy a list of lies the hamas have been caught saying:
They lied about October 7th, claiming nothing happened and it's all "Zionist propaganda." That's after they celebrated the "glorious victory" of course. They lied about October 7th, claiming Palestinians didn't do anything and the Israelis killed their own people. They lied about October 7th, claiming only soldiers were killed and not civilians. They lied about the Israeli findings on the "Hannibal Directive," claiming IDF forces killed hundreds of Israelis when in reality they killed 11. They lied about October 7th, claiming civilians were only killed accidentally. They lied about the Nova Music Festival, claiming it was a celebration of genocide or that the people there were mocking the Palestinians living in Gaza. They lied about the victims of October 7th, that they were all soldiers or reservists and therefore legitimate targets. They lied about the perpetrators of October 7th. Originally it was "the Palestinian resistance" and the "Palestinian people" who did it, but then when they realized that actually made the Palestinian people look pretty fucking bad, the narrative changed to it was "Hamas" who did it. They lied about "carpet bombing." They lied about Shani Louk, claiming she was a soldier and therefore a legitimate target. They lied about the rapes and sexual assaults, claiming that nothing happened and it was all Zionist lies. They lied about the people who investigated the rapes and sexual assaults, and the journalists who reported about it, calling them liars. They lied about the interrogated Hamas member who admitted to rape and sexual assault, namely that they were tortured into false confessions, without evidence of course. They lied about themselves once the truth about the rape and sexual assaults were revealed, claiming they never denied it and just wanted more evidence. They lied about a hostage being given a birthday cake. They lied about Hamas members being "journalists" and "aid workers." They lied about Hamas operating out of hospitals. They lied about hospitals running out of fuel. They lied about Israeli leadership, taking their quotes out of context or misrepresenting them to make them sound genocidal. They lied about their supporters, claiming groups like SJP and JVP are merely "anti-genocide." They lied about how the hostages were treated, claiming the hostages were treated well. They lied about released hostages being "in love" with their Hamas captors. They lied about the Al-Ahli Hospital bombing, that 500 people had been killed before the smoke even cleared, even holding a fake press conference. They lied about mass rape in Al-Shifa Hospital, even Al Jazeera had to silently remove their article about it. They lied about the IDF using dogs to rape Palestinian prisoners. They lied about the IDF booby trapping containers of meat and soda cans to trick starving Gazans. They lied about the ICJ, that it found it was "plausible" Israel was committing genocide when the ruling said no such thing. They lied about genocide, of course. They lied about civilians being "slaughtered" in the process of rescuing Noa Argamani. They lied about the WCK strike. They lied about delegates at the DNC. They lied about mass starvation and famine. They lied about their own slogans, like "from the river to the sea." They lied about UCLA counterprotesters trying to murder a Hamas supporter with a banana. They lied about the "Flour Massacre" and the "Tent Massacre." They lied about "mass graves" and "mass executions" at Al-Shifa Hospital. They lied about a white flag waving Palestinian being gunned down by the IDF for no reason. They lied about Gaza's Church of Saint Porphyrius being bombed on 9 October. They lied about Christian women being sniped by the IDF. They lied about the 12 children murdered by a Hezbollah rocket. They lied about the pager attack. They lied about UNRWA members participating in October 7th. They lied about a "polio epidemic." They lied about Israel blocking relief supplies, including soap and medicine. They lied about multiple fake or misleading polls of Israelis. They lied about the Lancet letter. They lied about a "bloodbath" should the IDF go into Rafah. They lied about Israeli soldiers shooting civilians "for sport." They lied about the Israeli parliament "debating" whether rape is acceptable. They lied about Israelis protesting in favor of raping Palestinians. They lied about 70% of Gazan buildings allegedly being "destroyed." They lied about Columbia counter-protesters using a "chemical weapon" that "hospitalized" its victims. They lied about Israeli soldiers burning a disabled Palestinian woman alive. They lied about an IDF sniper shining a laser at a journalist. They lied about a Palestinian surgeon being "raped to death" in an Israeli prison. They lied about the Amsterdam pogrom. They lied about "sniper drones" They lied about the NYTimes report involving kids' heads and X-rays. They lied about Israeli weapons that "vaporize" anyone within 300 meters. They lied about drones playing the sound of crying babies. They lied about 62,413 people in Gaza dying of starvation. They lied about the IDF replacing flour with sand. They lied about an Israeli "settler" throwing a Palestinians' cat off a roof.
bathtubsplashes@reddit
So non military members of Hamas are valid targets, but members of Israel's military aren't? Very consistent
I don't see how any of the rest of that shite is relevant to my comment. Besides a lot of them being complete bullshit and you obviously don't expect me to be informed enough to see through them, do you want me to go off and compile a list of all the IDF lies? Do you think I wouldn't be able?
But let's address the core component. I never said Hamas has no incentive to lie. I said they had no incentive to lie about the death toll considering it will be verifiable when the dust settles. Nobody trusts Hamas, except for (as I linked above) on the point of death counts. Why would they destroy trust in the one thing they are trusted on when the real numbers will inevitably come out anyway?
I'd imagine it would actually serve their cause we'll when we've been hearing 40,000 deaths for months and one day it will come out it's closer to 100,000. The world will recoil in horror and people like you will pivot to the next talking point as you've done 100 times in this conversation already
Remember, this started with you claiming the October 7th death ratio was 5:1, a full 18 months after this conflict started 😅 Your facts are obvious very trustworthy
Siman421@reddit
active non military members are, just as active non combatant idf soldiers are.
being an active part of an organization makes you part of that organization, and thus, if those orgs are military, valid targets.
reservists arent active. the ones that dies in gaza during the war, while fighting, are valid targets, but when they arent active they are just citizens.
they arent bullshit, thats the point. you claim they have no incentive to lie, and yet they have lied so many times in this war about so many different things.
ya, and after i said 5:1, and someone pointed out the mistake, i took it back, because i understand how information works.
youre the one not willing to admit fault.
they have lied about the detah toll in this war already, its in the damn list.
bathtubsplashes@reddit
The list you just fucking made up?!
What did they lie about regarding the children being sniped in the head? The NYT has come out and stated since the stand by the report
https://www.nytco.com/press/response-to-recent-criticisms-on-new-york-times-opinion-essay/
Israel does use snipers attached to drones
https://elbitsystems.com/unmanned/aerial/multi-rotor-solutions/bird-prey
Wtf are you talking about, Hamas posted the videos themselves live as the attack happened
Mate are you just posting Israeli war crimes and saying Hamas lied about them? The Christian church itself reported this, not Hamas
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html
It literally did say it was plausible or they would have ended the investigation there and then. What the fuck are you talking about?
A lot of the hostages looked in better condition that the Palestinian prisoners being released, no?
Pure conjecture, there's no proof to any of your accusations there. Because Israel restrict independent media from operating in the territory. I wonder why, makes it very easy to call everything lies with noone independent there to verify it no? How convenient
I'm not even going to waste my time continuing. You have lied from the very opening of this conversation, and when called out you pivot to a new lie hoping I'm not informed enough to catch you out again.
Don't worry, I'm not surprised. Every single one of ye uses the exact same tactics so I'm well prepared
Siman421@reddit
No, a list I sourced, and have confirmed every part of. A little bit of Google would take you a long way.
Drones with snipers don't fucking exist 🤣 the recoil makes the drone too unstable. Even what you linked isn't a sniper on a drone
Hamas posted the videos while publicly stating they didn't do a thing, that's how bad they are at lying, and yet you still believe their statements.
The church posted it, and Hamas then came out with a statement blaming Israel for it.
The icj one is a typo, it's the ICC who said it's not genocide. My bad on that one.
It's not conjecture when weapons have been found in hospitals, when confirmed Hamas members have been found with journalist vests, when hospitals have been saying for months they will run out of fuel, but never have stated they have run out of fuel, and the hostages themselves have come out and said they were treated horribly.
You're correct about 1 thing, you aren't informed enough.
bathtubsplashes@reddit
I'm sorry, who is the one posting sources in this conversation? You or me?
Whatever Zionist propogandists you follow on Twitter aren't a fucking source mate
Not according to the company Smart Shooter
The mounting system can handle "various types of assault rifles, sniper rifles, 40mm, and other ammunition with great precision," the company announced.
Because Israel fucking did it?!
The ICC who issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant? You can't even get the name right but you know Hamas lied about them. Source it for me there cause you told me you already have for all this bullshit
Siman421@reddit
The only twitter account I follow is the official Hamas one, to get the numbers and lies from them directly.
I call that not an Israeli drone , i.e., not used in Israel, or in this conflict , so at least in this part of the world, snipers on drones don't exist (I would know , I've worked at elbit)
About ICC on Nov 21st the International Criminal Court in the Hague, arguably the most qualified court to judge genocide, rejected the extermination charge sought by prosecutor Khan. The ICC was literally created to make judgements like this.
Prosecutor Khan even admitted he doesn't have evidence to bring genocide charges
Israel didn't do it, Hamas did, that's the point. Just like how Hamas blamed Israel for bombing a hospital , and killing 500, when in fact it was a jihad rocket, it hit the parking lot, and killed 100, they lied about this too and months later it after extensive checking it came out that Israel didn't do it.
Perhaps don't tell an Israeli about what happens in Israel, just like you don't want me to tell you what happens in Ireland .
bathtubsplashes@reddit
Pivot number 1, a minute ago you told me the technology doesn't exist
Regarding the icc, at no point do they state that genocide wasn't plausible. You even put in bold a statement saying "not all components were met". So that means that a portion of the components were met for extermination aka, it is entirely plausible!
Nothing you have linked there states that they think it is implausible, they are literally saying we need more info FFS!
Let's check wiki
Initially, the IDF stated that the incidents occurred during a blitz programmed to look for armaments in the area.[19] Following an internal investigation, the IDF said that Hamas had fired an RPG from the vicinity of the church, and that IDF soldiers had fired back and hit Hamas spotters,[4] while Catholic Church officials maintained there were no Palestinian belligerents in the area.[15] In January the IDF backtracked on its original conclusions, saying that it would undertake a further examination of the incident.[6]
Can you source something to back up your claim it was Hamas? Because even Israel seem to be investigating
Siman421@reddit
I can't really source something saying it was Hamas (since it was a verbal statement in Hebrew on the news), but I can source the idf saying it's not them, and I can point out how the source the wiki uses to say the idf backtracked is false, and doesn't mention that at all, since the idf did not backtrack.
Unlike you, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. The technology seems to exist, but not in this part of the world, and therefore not used in this conflict , meaning that any claims relating to it's use in this war are lies.
I said the ICC didn't say it is a genocide, and the sources I sent confirm this. They even wanted to say it's a genocide but said they can't say that.
bathtubsplashes@reddit
Most people would link the source and not just say they can
Israel, historically always a few decades behind when it comes to military hardware aren't they 🤯
No you said
When the ruling says it is plausible, they just don't have all the evidence they need right now. Very hard to get all the evidence you need when Israel blocks all independent investigators from entering the territory, would you agree?
Siman421@reddit
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/256335/after-military-review-idf-again-denies-killing-two-women-at-gaza-catholic-church
When it comes to snipers on drones, yes Israel is behind. Israel focuses more on defensive tech Vs offensive tech.
And yet, months later, there has been no change in the icc ruling, despite plenty of available evidence. I wonder why a group who wants to say something is a genocide, but state that they can't, and have yet to change that statement, would do such a thing?
bathtubsplashes@reddit
That article is from December 2023. The investigation was reopened in January as dictated by the idf:
Then, in January, a spokesperson for the I.D.F. said that the initial conclusion was unfounded and that the examination of the incident is ongoing. “The IDF takes claims of strikes on sensitive sites very seriously, especially churches that are the holy sites for the Christian faith.
Give this a read and tell me how proud you are of the IDF
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-dilemma-of-gazas-christians
Shortly after, around noon, Edward Anton, a former colleague of mine at Doctors Without Borders who is staying at the church, thought he saw Israeli military nearby and shouted at people in the building not to go outside. He says he thinks his elderly mother, Nahida Anton, didn’t hear him. She walked out into the courtyard to use a bathroom in a different building. Edward says she was immediately shot three times. Hearing the shots, his sister Samar ran outside and tried to drag their mother’s body back to safety. Samar was killed, too. Seven more people, including Edward and his father, ran into the courtyard and were injured by bullets before leaving their bodies behind.
On the evening of the Holy Family attacks, the Latin Patriarchate’s statement was its strongest yet, directly identifying the Israeli military as the perpetrator and stating, “No warning was given, no notification provided. They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the parish, where there are no belligerents.”
Those pesky Hamas lies, eh?
> And yet, months later, there has been no change in the icc ruling, despite plenty of available evidence
I'm sorry, did I miss independent investigators being allowed into the territory in the meantime?
Siman421@reddit
So the people making the statement aren't there, and the people who made the claim that are there have provided no evidence. Truly trustworthy.
I'm guessing the thousands of videos from Gaza that people like you use as evidence don't actually help up then.
bathtubsplashes@reddit
Oh wait, there's another pivot to add to the book
Siman421@reddit
Look we can go back and forth constantly, disagreeing with each other and getting nowhere, or we can just agree that we disagree, that we won't change each others minds, and just move on with our days. That's what I intend to do. I have more important things to do than argue on Reddit, I hope you do too.
your_red_triangle@reddit
the biggest contributing factor to them deaths was the Hannibal directive. but Hasbara bots don't like talking about that
ennisa22@reddit
It’s inarguable that Hamas made a ridiculously strong effort to not harm children on Oct 7th. The numbers are clear.
Which begs the question, how many of that 35 were killed by Israel?
Siman421@reddit
Are you crazy? They kidnapped a baby.
ennisa22@reddit
Oh no!! Probably best you avoid the news for the moment if 1 baby getting taken shocks you.
Siman421@reddit
How is taking a baby hostage going to great lengths to not hurt children? I'm also pretty sure killing a kids parents hurts that kid. As soon as you defended Hamas, you revealed your true colours as a terrorist supporter.
ennisa22@reddit
Sounds like they didn’t want to separate mother from baby.
Back at you. As soon as you defended Israel you became a terrorist supporter. I know which side my conscience would be clearer on.
Siman421@reddit
Cool Then enjoy supporting what the entire world knows is a terror organisation. Maybe go to Gaza and help them out, I'm sure they will treat you nicely.
ennisa22@reddit
Hahahaha literally no body with a brain thinks this. The ratio is much much closer to 1:100.
Siman421@reddit
Based on what info? The I do I'm basing it on is the combatant number from the idf, and the total number coming from Hamas.
What do you know that they don't?
ennisa22@reddit
Common sense.
Maths apparently.
A simple bit of maths will tell you the demographic break down (according to Israeli records) of men, women and children in Gaza.
Israel have said repeatedly that Hamas death toll is exaggerated, which would make Israel’s numbers even more ridiculous.
But if you break down the percentage of men in Gaza and the death toll, it would mean that every single man killed was in Hamas plus some.
That’s how I know. Because it’s mathematically impossible.
Siman421@reddit
Common sense isn't proof. The death toll is 48k per Hamas. There are a lot more than 48k men in Gaza It seems both common sense and math have escaped you.
ennisa22@reddit
There’s no way your comprehension is this bad? Pls read over the messages again and let me know when you figure out where you went ridiculously wrong.
Siman421@reddit
My bad, your claim is that every single man who died was in Hamas, plus more Ya, that kinda makes sense. Hamas had (might have gone back up to this number) 40k members, all men. We both know not all 48k were men, and also that more than 8k aren't men, this making it very possible that all the men who died were members of Hamas.
Given there is actual targeting involved in this war, and not indiscriminate rockets (which is what Hamas does) it makes sense most of the dead men are Hamas.
From a different perspective, who said the death toll follows the demographic split in Gaza? It is very possible 30k men died, and then not all of them are Hamas. There are no concrete numbers for the demographics of the death toll, and given evacuation efforts, it's likely more men died than women and children, as men are more likely to be Hamas members Vs women and children, and Hamas members tend to be in fighting zones (or hiding in the safe zones ala dief)
If you can actually refute it , I'd love to see a source, but I know you can't, youre just assuming you're right without evidence.
ennisa22@reddit
There is absolutely a break down of deaths by demographic. You can’t pick and choose what Hamas numbers you want to believe to suit your narrative.
Children are disproportionately affected. 0-9 year olds made up the largest demographic by a mile.
Okay and all the 70 year olds were Hamas too were they?
40,000 in Hamas, out of 2 million people, but most were in Hamas.. okay that makes perfect sense.
So 1 in every 50 is in Hamas, but the majority killed were Hamas. Gotcha. So they’re that accurate but are still killing children disproportionately? Explain that one.
Any other genius notions?
Siman421@reddit
Link it then Find me this breakdown. I haven't found it.
If an area with mostly children goes to war, it's expected children will die no? Which begs the question, why did hamas do this, and take hostages, knowing Israel would respond this way?
48k died out of 2 million, ya, does make sense. Targeting is a wonderful thing.
ennisa22@reddit
https://gna.org.gh/2024/11/un-report-children-aged-5-9-account-for-most-verified-gaza-deaths/
Siman421@reddit
This represents 10k deaths, it's in the article. Therea 48k deaths. So this breakdown is pointless. It could be from the 38k they didn't check that all are adult males, all adults females or all children, completely changing the breakdown each time.
Also, why send an article about a report, and not the report?
ennisa22@reddit
Oh ffs it’s like talking to a wall. Cool, they should keep murdering tens of thousands of children, you’re right. Truly on the right side of history you are.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
That's strange, even by Israels own numbers, over a third killed were IDF, and that's not counting those that were actually killed by Israel.
Math is khamas?
ennisa22@reddit
And over a third former IDF soldiers. We’re literally talking about 300 innocent civilians. And God knows how many Israel killed themselves.
We could really be talking about 200 civilians killed and the response is nearing 20,000 dead children.
Imagine looking back when history is written and having to look yourself in the mirror knowing you supported this.
Siman421@reddit
not entirely, not over a third were idf, under a third.
making it more than 1:2....
math isnt hamas, but you dont seem so good at reading.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Well at least something isn't
soyyoo@reddit
How about the thousands of hostages currently held by r/israelcrimes on 🇵🇸 land?
podba@reddit
Stop doing "Jewface" and pretending to be Israeli to say antisemitic things. We all know you're an Irish obsessed with Jews.
ennisa22@reddit
When I want my hostages back, I too choose to bomb them. Genius plan
Siman421@reddit
More have been saved by the idf than killed, And every time they did kill someone, there was an investigation and consequences.
Do you have a different plan? The class would love to hear it.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Hamas attempted hostage negotiations on the first day, this is not to say hamas is good but Israel could have had the hostages back much earlier and more intact
Siman421@reddit
would you instantly negotiate with someone who killed half your family and kidnapped the rest?
i dont disagree, but every single country would have gone to war after an event like oct 7
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Yes you do so you don't lose the rest if you must kill then do so after your family is safe but Israel chose to make them martyrs instead
Siman421@reddit
israel saved more hostages than they killed.
and they wouldnt have killed any if they werent taken by hamas in the firts place...
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Tell that to the families of the dead " yeah we could have saved more but when you look at depersonalized numbers we saved more than we killed so it's actually good that we chose this path" yeah the families are pissed for a reason
Russian Beslan school ass logic this entire comment
Siman421@reddit
the families of the dead understand and accept this fact, they are still angry at the government, as am i, and the trust in the government is maybe 30% at most, but the trust in the idf is around 70% right now. tha families are pissed not because of death, but because of lack of accountability by the people in charge.
dont go telling people what they feel when you arent them, have never interacted with them, and never intend to.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
They have been very clear on their opinion they speak it loudly to the media they blame the government for not securing the release of their loved ones a release they could have gotten on the first day when most if not all were still alive
Unfortunately, "but the hostages!!!!!" Is a better war cry and easier to spin to people like you than just straight revenge bombings so Israel let them die, and how Israel is again invading when if they had just complied with stage 2 of the ceasefire all remaining hostages would have been released
Siman421@reddit
im not for israel going back in, i wanted the ceasefire to last and for everyone to be released.
no where did i say going back to war is good, nor is it something most of the country wants. part of these protests is exactly about that.
however, find the families of the 3 hostages the idf accidently kileld for example, and youll see they forgive the idf for that, and are just mad at the government, as most of the country is.
you really are shady, you twist things alot.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Well that's not what Israel is doing now is it?
Of course after all the IDF is "just following orders"
Siman421@reddit
why do you think there are fucking protests?????
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
All you need for a protest is a person who disagrees with something, let me know when they accomplish something
Siman421@reddit
So now your problem is the protests don't work?
What are you even doing in this thread?
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Protests can work when done by a large enough group, let me know when that happens and they actually accomplish something
Siman421@reddit
So 200k, 400k, even 700k in each protest over the past year and a half are not big enough groups? Are you really complaining on Reddit about how people aren't protesting enough?? Maybe go help and stop commenting?
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
If they haven't accomplished anything, then they aren't big enough
Siman421@reddit
Then what's your point here? Are you here, on a thread about Israelis protesting, to say they shouldn't? That they should get violent? That they should protest more?
What are you trying to say? Are you trying to criticise Israelis for not protesting hard enough?
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
At this stage yes
Siman421@reddit
Coming from an American, that's bold. Bold and dumb.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
I also believe Americans are failing to protest enough but we are on a thread about Israelis not Americans
Siman421@reddit
But you're an American, not protesting enough, claiming others aren't protesting enough. Hypocrisy at its finest right here.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Hypocrisy would be saying that Americans are and Israelis are not Hypocrisy is not saying both are failing that is in fact a consistent opinion
You're just grasping at straws to try and redirect from Israel's failures because you have no argument but are desperate to try and find a gotcha
Siman421@reddit
Hypocrisy is criticizing a group for something you yourself aren't doing.
My man, you're on the internet complaining that people don't protest enough, on a thread about mass protests, to a person who actively participates in those protests, while you yourself don't protest your own problems.
Shady was a good choice for your username.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Who said I'm not? Because i, in fact, do, and guess what? Nothing has yet been accomplished, which is how i know it's not enough. More people need to protest, and if protesting is never enough, there are only two options left.
Siman421@reddit
You protest? Guess you aren't protesting hard enough, and are just here to hide Americas failures.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
You are correct America is not protesting enough, I never stated individuals weren't but that the state as a whole was not you have decided to make this personal for whatever reason
Siman421@reddit
And yet you're here criticising others for something you are failing at I made this personal when you started to criticise people for something you are failing at, likely failing harder than the people you are criticizing (trump has done more harm in a month than Bibi has in a year).
Stop calling the kettle black, and deal with your own problems before criticizing others.
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Again, I never criticized individuals but the state as a whole
You made it personal in order to deflect
Siman421@reddit
You shouldn't be criticising a state when yours is doing worse. I'm not deflecting. Bibi is a cunt, changes need to be made in Israel, and the current government needs to go.
On the other hand, we still have a department of education, and everyone in the government was elected. You've got a billionaire who never ran, running your government.
Don't criticise people for things you aren't succeeding in, it's hypocritical, and meaningless. It's like Kim Jong un criticizing America for lack of freedoms (a hypothetical to illustrate the point that someone failing to do a thing should not criticise others for failing to do the same thing)
Shady_Merchant1@reddit
Congratulations, you've proven Carlin correct you beat me and your reward for derailing the conversation to prove how smart and nuanced your are is nothing
Siman421@reddit
Hey I'm not the one coming from a country losing its democracy, comparing that another country isn't protesting hard enough, while simultaneously not protesting hard enough.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
A theater act to depose their scapegoat as they always planned
A charade to pretend they’re empathetic human beings and not white colonizers.
Siman421@reddit
Again, most of Israel isn't fucking white.
How insane are you?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
It is an established white ethnostate controlled by white people with a negligible number of black and brown people that yall also hate and use as cannon fodder. Like the United States
And the sky is blue
Siman421@reddit
Wow you are delusional.
I'm guessing the stigma about black people and education in the united states is true. I'm sorry for you man.
wewew47@reddit
And so the mindset of so called moderate israelis is revealed. Their issue with netanyahu is not that he's committing genocide, it's that his actions might affect Israelis instead of Palestinians.
Siman421@reddit
dont you, as a citizen of some country, care more about the decisions that your government makes that affect your country more than the ones that affect others?
on a plane you put your mask on first, then help others.....
the issue with netanyahu is too large to write in a single reddit comment, i guess youre just too naive to understand that.
wewew47@reddit
I'm not saying whether you care more for one than the other. I'm saying you don't care for Palestinians at all. You could have been out there protesting for a stop to the genocide as well as protesting against netanyahus domestic actions. But the genocide is not enough for the overwhelming majority of israeli society to go out and protest.
Do you even view it as a genocide?
Politics and protesting are not analogous to plane health and safety.
Siman421@reddit
And you got that I don't care about Palestinians from where? I do care, but I care more about hostages from my country Vs citizens of another country.
I have the same view as the ICC, which say it's not a genocide (specifically they say they can't say it is one)
I don't see people anywhere in the world protesting for Sudan..... Does that mean no one cares?
People care for their own first, then their neighbors.
wewew47@reddit
Open your eyes. The pro Palestine movement regularly talks about Sudan. The only people I've seen talk about Sudan are pro palestinians.
The two are not mutually exclusive - a ceasefire benefits all.
They have not said its not a genocide. They haven't ruled yet. In any case the definition is plain for all to read ans the evidence is there. It's quite clear to me that it is genocide as the intent is blatant with all the government statements and the general bloodthirst of the citizenry.
Siman421@reddit
They don't regularly talk about Sudan, or I would've seen 1 story relating the 2 here on Reddit. I would've heard it from a protest or read it anywhere before this comment.
What about the problems in Africa? Who's protesting those? Don't be blind man, people can care and not protest, and people can protest due to trendiness.
I'm not for going back to war, if that's what you think . I want a ceasefire. I don't want anyone else to die on either side, but I also want the hostages back , and if Hamas won't return them someone has to do something.
wewew47@reddit
That is the ICC, not the ICJ. The ICC weren't sure that they coukd charge netanyahu and Gallant specifically with the crimes of extermination ans genocide.
Note that that is distinct from the decision about whether Israel as a state is committing genocide.
Nice try with the propaganda.
Irrelevant.
Hamas had agreed to do so, Israel refused to accept hostages as netanyahu didn't want to withdraw the occupation forces. It's telling that the hostages themselves and their families condemned this, stating the best way to free the remaining hostages is through the ceasefire that hamas has committed to.
Siman421@reddit
i have said icc the entire time.
also note there has been no legal decision regarding israel and genocide, only opinion pieces from different groups,
it is relevant when your claim is about people not protesting ergo not caring. people dont protest everything they care about.
and again, im against israel going back to war. i wanted the ceasefire to continue, and am very mad with the government about going back to war. i condemn it too. most people condemn it. you seeme to not notice the if i had in the sentence, the idea there being that if hamas didnt agree to return them, then i would be more understanding about going back to war (though still somewhat against it). whatever point you mare trying to make here is irrelevnt. we both want peace, and for no one else to die.
podba@reddit
There is no genocide. There's a war that head chopping rapists started and are losing.
We hate Netanyahu because he didn't deal with them before they could headchop and rape as much ( which is the part you actually like about them).
Had he dealt with them in 2012, 2014, or anytime in between, the tunnels wouldn't exist, Gaza would not have been bombed this day, and thousands of civilians on both sides would be alive today.
But you don't care about it, because you don't actually care about dead Arabs. They're props in your sick fantasy of killing Jews and destroying Israel.
Well no, we're not suicidal. That's not why we're protesting.
wewew47@reddit
Thanks for proving my point about how the people that hate netanyabu actually fully back the genocide. There are extremely few actually moderate israelis that don't actually support genocide.
soyyoo@reddit
How about the thousands of hostages currently held by r/israelcrimes on 🇵🇸 land?
Siman421@reddit
It's the r/Israel crimes dude What copy paste do you have for me today?
soyyoo@reddit
I mean, you can’t dispute 70+ years of r/israelcrimes on 🇵🇸 land so…
Siman421@reddit
Theres the classic soyyoo comment.
soyyoo@reddit
I mean, it’s a fact you’ve proven 🤷♀️
Siman421@reddit
I don't negotiate with brain-dead individuals.
soyyoo@reddit
We get it, you can’t dispute 70+ years of r/israelcrimes on 🇵🇸 land although you support it, go figure 🤷♀️
jaynic1@reddit
European talking about extreme parties with popularity lol
bathtubsplashes@reddit
There are no extreme parties with popularity in Ireland?
Go check the share of the vote the far right got in last year's ejection
italianNinja1@reddit
Yes i am perfectly aware, he reached the majority to rule with ben gvir and smotrich. Are you sure that you want to talk also about those two?
adminofreditt@reddit
Ben gvir isn't in the current government, he is with smotrich and other parties(likud and religious zionism aren't enough to be a majority)
italianNinja1@reddit
Yes he is:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hardliner-ben-gvir-returns-netanyahus-130625876.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAD5OFKRfOoyaTMVprAw3ocHeZ7NQfI4-4gjUyVUX9FnrY1hgI3AsVztm-1d7xbyWZ08413v5s6pfy9FbNBQNKqMHZ_z5lr1Szfw2wOpOkBdpfC_zbMcWt1MgRvSu4Fk9kw4QVdLcKA5s_yJwWgTyLM0rIFbOeMswiSxni7HxJ9by
https://www.jns.org/itamar-ben-gvir-back-at-national-security-ministry/
Siman421@reddit
Most of Israel hates those 2, including many Likud voters. Saying Bibi won is misleading, he made deals with assholes to win, he didn't win alone.
Killeroftanks@reddit
ya no, thats not how elections, or government works.
unless the majority of israel's population doesnt vote whatsoever, and seeing how statista shows that the 2022 election had a voter turnout of 70% means that at minimum 36% of voters voted for a right wing government, and also the 30% who didnt vote was fine with that possible outcome, means that its closer to 60% of the population is fine with this in some form. after all voting for a small group part of the right wing government coalition is still voting for the right wing government, the same one thats been in power since like 2005.
my point is, you can say most of israel hates them, but the reality is that most israelis are fine with them in some way.
Siman421@reddit
I'm Israeli For a fact, most Israelis hate them, This is proven by all current polls showing the current coalition would not have enough seats to maintain power if elections were held today.
The reality is most Israelis aren't fine with them.
italianNinja1@reddit
I never said that he won alone, i said that virtually more than 50% of the country approve him and the other two work and if elections are retaken today Likud alone would take 50 seats of 120 ( source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-pms-likud-would-win-most-seats-in-fresh-election-but-lack-path-to-power/ ). And according to other polls 60% supported to restart the war in Gaza, he was just clever enough to chose the tight moment ( source: https://www.jns.org/poll-60-of-israelis-back-return-to-fighting-in-gaza/ )
DorkHarshly@reddit
Nope it actually says that the entire coalition led by Bibi would take 50 seats.
For comparison, last election they took 64. So basically it means Bibi will not be a PM if the election is taken today.
Sufficient_astrobird@reddit
Does Israel have like a maximum time limit for being PM? bros been PM for like 10-15 years
DorkHarshly@reddit
Nope he is the longest serving PM in the country's history. There are quite a lot of people in Israel who will vote for him if he enters their house at night and rapes their wife.. and they are open about it.
Sufficient_astrobird@reddit
Damnn but I feel like his popularity is dying down. Since the ceasefire broke hopefully some change will come along.
DorkHarshly@reddit
He is in one of his lowest points for sure. However, the timing of the ceasefire breaking is not accidental. One of his assistants was caught getting funds from Qatar (the very people who fund Hamas) so now he is trying to shift the attention from this story.
Sufficient_astrobird@reddit
Soon we’ll be find out he was getting some funds from Qatar by the looks of it hahaha
There are tens of thousands of protesters protesting the ceasefire, and I didn’t hear anything about his assistant getting caught receiving funds from Qatar, so maybe he did successfully shift attention.
italianNinja1@reddit
Toucé, you are right
DorkHarshly@reddit
Thanks for not doubling down. These days it is not a given.
italianNinja1@reddit
Sincerly i think that he will still be the PM especially if he manage to continue the war until 2026 and if he is able to put some other party in the coalition, since he still have the majority of votes by party. The opposition were never been able to contrast him in the last 10 years and surely they will hardly manager to form a coalition that can defeat him
DorkHarshly@reddit
I wish I could disagree. He is a most competent politician I have ever seen (worldwide). More then once he has pulled rabbits from a hat in the last minute to win an election. But.. he is mortal, recently implanted with a ticker and according to rumors, have developed quite a few health problems recently.
AniTaneen@reddit
Sadly, “most of Israel” is only about 40% of Israel. 26% support Bibi or his right wing sicarios, 25% are religious who don’t give a fuck as long as they get paid, and 9% are right wing fanatics with principles.
The problem at this point is more entrenched than just Bibi.
Siman421@reddit
And you say this from what experience? What polls do these numbers come from? Many religious people, and parties, have gone against many of bibis decisions as of late.
waiver@reddit
Didnt help that enough people voted for other bloodthirsty parties so he could form a coalition.
meister2983@reddit
Another 20+% voted for a party in a coalition with Likud.
Siman421@reddit
And yet those aren't votes towards the Likud. Ergo, the majority did not vote for Bibi, and many of bibis voters don't agree with smotrich and Ben gvir
meister2983@reddit
It's a democracy. A majority coalition is going to form. If you don't want Bibi, you can't vote for a party that's going to join his coalition
Siman421@reddit
1 - I have never voted for a party Bibi has worked with, 2- Bibi has never worked with half of the current coalition before, he has only done so this time for the sake of maintaining his power to avoid court proceedings
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I'm not sure how similar he is to Trump, but Trump is also what the US elected and therefore what we must assume the US wants.
soyyoo@reddit
Israhell*
Mein_Bergkamp@reddit
So ..Trump?
The mental gymnastics on here when Israel is mentioned is mental.
He's a genocidal war criminal who is in power because of a coalition, you don't need to lie about it to make him worse.
Likud has 32 out of 120 seats, he's far from what all Israelis voted for, but he's in power because he formed an effective coalition.
As opposed to trump, who got in power because the US system is binary and he got more votes than Harris.
italianNinja1@reddit
What i meant is that comparisons with Trump are almost always with people different from him(they make comparisons only with right wing politicians forgetting that in the right wing there are a lot of differencies) . The only politician that have more than something similar with Trump is Berlusconi
Mein_Bergkamp@reddit
I never thought I'd type this but... I think you're being unfair to Berlusconi.
Unlike Trump he actually was a powerful, successful business mogul that got him into the absolute top tier of the establishment in financial, sporting and political circles. Berlusconi is what Trump and his supporters think Trump is and to be honest trump may be unique in that he's so powerful with so little actual ability to back it.
However, what Trump, Berlusconi and Netanyahu do all have in common is running and winning elections to avoid being prosecuted for their crimes, so on that front alone it's a fair comparison.
In Agent Orange and Bibi's case if you add in wannabe authoritarians running rough shod over their countries constitutions, checks and balances and with an absolutely expansionist view on neighbouring countries then it gets even closer.
Although the US has yet to have quite as large protests against Trump as Israel has had for Netanyahu to be fair on them.
Proper_Razzmatazz_36@reddit
Trump was also elected so that doesn't differentiate them
meister2983@reddit
The US also elected Trump. Trump doesn't mean "came to power not democratically"
italianNinja1@reddit
What i meant is that comparisons with Trump are almost always different with him. The only politician that have more than something similar with Trump is Berlusconi
soyyoo@reddit
Out of curiosity are you a dual citizen?
Siman421@reddit
Not a r/Israel crimes copy paste You actually have a keyboard?
soyyoo@reddit
I mean, you can’t dispute 70+ years of r/israelcrimes on 🇵🇸 land so…
podba@reddit
HODOR
SouLuz@reddit
The more you pander to ~~antizionists~~ the more they'll see you as a colonialist imperial european foreign to you ancestral homeland.
Thousands protested on the street becuase Israel is, in fact, a robust democracy. Much more robust than the US for example, and Netanyahu (Bibi is for internal debates, not international debates with jew haters) is one decision maker out of many, unlike the near medieval king status Trump has for four years.
Outsiders don't understand that, they conflate the man with an entire public because that's what they know, and they don't see nuance and complexity.
Why are you apologizing for your existence, throwing Israel under the bus?
SirStupidity@reddit
Hmmm Bibi has much of the same status among his voters and among his party. Israel is just not a two party system so him putting yes men and controlling his entire party isn't half of the political sphere.
Also I think Bibi watches Trump and keeps learning new things he can get away with, look at voices in the right starting to praise DOGE like cuts and stuff
SouLuz@reddit
Sure, but not the same status in regard to power over the state.
Like Naftali Bennet has done, who nit at all associatef with Netanyahu.
podba@reddit
It's not pandering. I don't care what they think. I want Bibi out because he is the reason Hamas had 15 years to arm, dig tunnels and create this disaster. He is a coward, and mismanaged this war.
Zero apologies over hating the fucker.
SouLuz@reddit
You didn't write the og comment.
Og commenter saying something like "this is coming from an Israeli" means they try to talk specifically to the good side of antizionists by throwing Netanyahu under the bus as if we hate just like them.
That will always fail, as they hate him because of the same reasons they hate us - being a jew living in the jewish state, which is again considered an illegitimate colonial project in their eyes. We're all lumped together for them.
There's also a difference between having the anti-bibi discussion in Israeli circles, and in international subs known for their many antizionists.
Your hate for him, for example how he mismanaged the war, is different than their hate for him, which is that he has the audacity to make Israel defend itself in the first place.
podba@reddit
The beauty of Zionism is it freed us from needing to care about what antisemites think of us. Their opinion is inconsequential to our existence, safety, or actions. I don't think of them at all, nor should I.
I hate Bibi. He is awful for Israel, he is awful for Palestine, he is awful for Iran. I'm not going to alter my behaviour based on what some Jewhater might think. That's very גלותי bullshit.
I'm a free, sovereign Jew, in my own democratic state, fighting for it. We should say loudly and clearly that we disagree with Netanyahu, because the sane people who aren't random haters, can appreciate that Israel is a democracy with multiple opinions, and the current government is not representative of them.
It does not mean we agree with them. There is a consensus about defeating Hamas from left-to-right, and the war will not end without the full dismantlement of Hamas and return of all the hostages regardless of who wins the next elections.
We do need to get rid of Bibi now, and hiding that doesn't do us any favours.
SouLuz@reddit
We definitely don't need to hide it, I completely agree with you. What I'm criticising is og commenter pandering to antizionists in the sub.
Awesome, so why hang out in subs with so many antizionists?
Why defame Israel's PM here, instead of subs or circles where people understand the nuance in your words, that you hate the PM, but not the country he leads?
Not all of them, that is right, but most of them, especially in regard to the fundemental right of jews to exist as a soverign nation in their ancestral homeland. That goverment we both disagree with and criticise is zionist, however many problems it has and its members create.
But that fundemental opinion is exactly why those people here hate our goverment. So yes, in that specific criteria, this goverment does in fact represent me, and although you might disagree, you and almost all others who protest against the goverment.
We need to remember the people who threaten us the most are not within. You can say Netanyahu is a bad PM, and he is, but he is not the threat to our existence, and I think we need to remember that.
podba@reddit
You'll be surprised how many people are passively reading this, and message me in private. There are a lot of jewhaters here (let's drop the pretence they're "antizionist"), but a lot more decent people who might not write as often.
I defame Israel's PM because he's a corrupt coward, whose actions resulted in the deaths of thousands of Israelis and could result in Iranian nukes. I say it because it's the truth and he's scum that deserves every bit of scorn.
I strongly disagree with that. We've destroyed Hezbollah. Hamas is on its last breaths. What will break Israel apart is Netanyahu, his corrupt coalition, and his dismantlement of our institutions and of our unity.
This government is a much greater threat to Israel than Hamas or Iran. In fact, the only reason Hamas and Iran are threats at all is Bibi's cowardice of handling those threats when they were small.
So I think this is the core difference in our threat assessment. Hamas and Iran are our enemies, but are not yet an existential threat. This government is an existential threat.
SouLuz@reddit
But you realise you've just classified half of Israel as Israel's greatest enemy? Don't you see that contradiction? People who support Bibi, and even Ben Gvir and Smotrich are Israelis as well.
That hate and division exists on both sides of the aisle.
So how does a "as an Israeli" seem to you?
podba@reddit
Likud voters are less than 25% of Israelis. And even most of them aren’t blindly in a cult. The current coalition relies on a minority of votes, 48%, that only happened due to the electoral threshold.
And that’s before October 7, which happened on bibis watch, largely because of his 15 years of neglect and attempted bribes of Hamas.
If “as an Israeli” was used to describe a non existent position it would be relevant. Since it describes the position of most Israelis, these are not the same.
I’m describing the mainstream majority position.
SouLuz@reddit
I think you underestimate, go to a telegram channel like abu ali express and you'll see a whole different picture. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
But if we go with your numbers you still say around 40% of Israelis, not including the division coming from the left, is the greatest enemy of Israel, if I understand you correctly.
So the only thing that classify wether playing a token for jewhaters is the prevalence of your position?
Not the phrasing, or the meaning of your words? Not loyalty to the greater fundemental truths of jews in Israel, like that we have no where else to go?
Isn't that exactly the same as the asajews?
podba@reddit
Correct, that's what token means. Representing a deeply unpopular position that doesn't reflect the majority.
My numbers said under 20%.
Getting your assessment of public opinion from populist far right telegram channels is never a good idea. That's why surveys exist.
https://www.idi.org.il/articles/58604
73% of Israelis say Netanyahu must go. That's the data here.
SouLuz@reddit
So 20% of Israel is Israel's greatest enemy, 27% accoridng to the poll you gave.
That means one of every four or five Israelis is part of Israel's greatest enemy.
Don't you find that line of thinking flawed?
You just called a telegram channel with over 400k subscribers across all political spectrum a "populist far right" channel, don't you think that division is reciprocal?
Both sides are so divisive, each blaming the other and calling them Israel's greatest enemy. Each dismissive of the other's point of view, refusing to listen and argue, instead shutting them off.
I disagree. I think it's more than that. I think it's also playing into a narrative that goes against a core fundemental value of the shared existence of the group.
Asajew plays into the demonization of Israel, but so does asanisraeli, even if it relies on a much larger percentage of Israel's opinion in internal debates. In debates outside of Israeli circles, we're all Israelis, both you and the 20% who are Netanyahu cultists, although unfortunately we don't show solidarity to one another.
That, I agree with you, is one of the biggest threats to us.
podba@reddit
No. 20% of Israel are willing to vote for the greatest danger to Israel. Because they're in a cult, or roughly half of them are.
And yes Abu Ali express is a populist far right channel. If you do the math it represents that exact type of people you're discussing.
And no, representing the MAJORITY opinion of Israel is not the same as being a token for a MINORITY opinion.
Bibi is a danger to Israel. Hams would've been destroyed 13 years ago if he was not in power. He is the reason this is happening. His negligence, cowardice, and mismanagement. Removing him is the first, and most essential step in restoring the country.
I will never stop saying this, regardless of how many of his cultish supporters come after me. And I will say it loudly in Hebrew AND in English. We did not establish a free Jewish state to care what others think of us, despite the disaporism of many of Bibi's cult members.
SouLuz@reddit
You think the you hold a lot of truths the Bibi cultists don't see. I agree with you. Don't you think there is at least one truth that they see and you don't?
But again, like we both know, Israel is a robust democracy that makes it very difficult for one to abuse power, and for these past 13 years or so Bibi had a very strong opposition, for better and for worse.
We can take the judicial reform/revolution as an example. While I hate how it was done and conducted, the one sidedness of it, I can't dismiss the feelings of all those that wanted it, I can't dismiss their reasoning for wanting it, because otherwise I can't live in the same democratic country as them. This courtesy of understanding the other side needs to go both ways, because I absolutely demand the same of them.
You didn't really answer my point though, I said it's not about the percentage of the opinion, but wether or not it plays into a narrative that threatens the shared truth of the group.
Both you and the bibists are zionists, wether you like it or not. You both believe us jews should live in our land. That is more shared values you have than with jewhaters.
podba@reddit
No I don't think that people who idolise an individual over an idea or ideology hold any truths whatsoever. Literally zero value. It's a cult.
Wanting a judicial reform (opinion), vs. wanting the insane pile of shit Bibi tried to ram through are not the same thing.
And I told you you're very wrong.
Because the shared truth is the majority opinion, and the only way to become a token is to pretend to represent a majority or a significant opinion when you're not. Your definition is just wrong.
And no, not all Bibists are Zionists. Many are, many are not, such as someone like Shlomo Karhi.
Of course I have more shared values with the Bibist cult than the antisemitic cult. But I can correctly diagnose, that as a regional superpower, and a nuclear nation, the antisemites in the west are not a threat to my continued existence, while the Bibists are.
They're both cults, and even though I have more in common with one of them, that cult also is a greater threat to my future, because it has a greater ability to influence it.
DanDan1993@reddit
It's amusing how antizionists ignore these protests but keep rambling on the low four digit (maybe even not that) protests in Sde Timan and how that represents Israel as a whole, because we are obviously a monolith and we all think a like. It's like they never knew Jews and the "10 jews 15 opinions" joke.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Israelis love collective responsibility tho, remember רע?
DanDan1993@reddit
Remember evil?
You're just failing at larping Connor, why continue
podba@reddit
Stop pretending to be Jewish, you obsessed Paddysitinian.
SouLuz@reddit
Your larp is showing
Siman421@reddit
I'm not apologising not am I throwing Israel under the bus. I just hate Bibi. Unlike you, I deal with him and his coalition and their stupid decisions daily.
SouLuz@reddit
The reason you, us, the Israeli public, hate him, is not the reason they hate him.
We hate his internal policies, his corruption, firing any criticising voice around him and creating a cult around him.
They hate him because he is the Zionist leader of the jewish nation, which they perceive as an illegitimate colonial project, apartheid state and all that bullshit buzz words they use and blood libels they spew against IDF soldiers risking their lives to protect us.
I assume you're from the Zionist left, which means they hate you for the same reason they hate him. You throwing him under the bus to pander to them does not achieve what you think it achieves. You're both on the same category for them - foreign europeans colonialists in a land not their own.
podba@reddit
Can confirm. Israeli. Came back from the protest a few hours ago. Stood in freezing weather and pouring rain. Bibi is our disaster.
SirStupidity@reddit
Thanks for protesting
podba@reddit
Come join us. Right now Supreme Court blocked the removal of Bar, but the case will be discussed Tuesday. We’re also planning a huge march calling for equal service on the last day of the Knesset winter session in 2 weeks.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
He's your scapegoat. Get for real.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Time to depose the scapegoat I guess 🤷🏿♂️
Hellhole military base. Europeans in klan hoods sprinting in and out of Palestine with their raiding parties like bats. Nothing, I mean NOTHING will change until that hellhole military base is dissolved
I understand the irony in me saying this as an American. But counter point: my ass is black. They hate me too. Don’t come at me with your “Black israeli” arguments
LowRevolution6175@reddit
this is one of the more deranged takes on Israel I've seen, and I'm on the internet daily.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Boohoo, a black person with a brain and an opinion
podba@reddit
That's some grade A insanity here.
I don't care what colour you are. The suggestion Israel is somehow more racist than America is deranged.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿😂😂😂
podba@reddit
Correct. the life expectancy gap between Jews and Arabs in Israel is 3.7 years and shrinking.
An Israeli Jew lives on average to be 82.7 years, while an Israeli Arab lives to be 79.
https://www.taubcenter.org.il/en/research/the-health-of-the-arab-israeli-population/
A white American lives on average to be 76.4, and a black American lives to be 70.8. That's almost double the gap in Israel, and in America that gap is widening.
https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/what-is-driving-widening-racial-disparities-in-life-expectancy/
Israel is a significantly less racist place than the US. Deal.
Look, I know your type. I lived and worked in sub Saharan Africa for a long time, in several countries. Your race obsessed types come from America, all the Africans make fun of you over how obsessed you are with race stuff, while they view you as still an American, and then you lot leave frustrated, because you're so obsessed with superficial stuff like skin colour, you never bothered to learn any of the history or culture.
It's a sad mode of existence, but it's never too late to turn your life around. Perhaps come visit Israel, we seem to integrate racial differences much better than where you're from.
Theodosian_Walls@reddit
My guy, you really went mask-off at the end there with your 'you American blacks are all alike, trust me I know my blacks' rant. smh
podba@reddit
That's literally not what it says.
It clearly specified "race obsessed types". I've encountered plenty of decent African American returnees (as they're called in Ghana). They're the ones who stay, build a new life, and contribute.
I've also encountered the race-baiters. They're the ones who never acclimate, fold tail, and run back blaming everybody else.
These are not the same.
Really bad faith to read it the way you have.
randompersononearth9@reddit
Wow, so your argument about not being a racist people because of some life expectancy bullshit stat is actually genuine? While your people are killing children for being born Palestinians and destroying their homes calling them animals and spitting on them?
What kind of low life makes this connection thinking they have some valid argument while a genocide is going on. Are you really this ignorant or is your hate so blind that you don't realise how fucked up this all is.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
🫵🏿🫵🏿🫵🏿😂😂😂
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Yeah I'm not sure about that one. Israeli Arabs make up 20% of Israel and a tiny fraction of a percent of government ministers. They're massively underrepresented in politics to a much greater extent than minorities in the US. You also get the pretty regular "death to Arabs" chants at your protests, that sort of thing is much less common in the US. The Nation State Law Israel passed in 2018 that designates only Jews as having "national rights" is also pretty fucking dated by western standards.
podba@reddit
Israeli Arabs are 20% of the population and have 10% of Knesset seats currently (in the past they had more, but one of their parties fell below the threshold).
African Americans are 15% of the population and 5% of senators.
“Death to Arabs” is not a regular chant in protests, and is a jailable offence. Not to say racists don’t chant it.
Look israel has a lot of work to do in further reducing racism in our society, just like everyone else.
We’re doing a much better job than Americans and Europeans.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Do it again for government ministers. That is to say, the actual government who run the country.
Something being an arrestable offence doesn't really mean anything in a country where burning down a Palestinian town doesn't get you arrested unless you're incredibly unlucky and get picked as the token to be held up in imitation of a real justice system. The fact is it does get chanted at protests a lot and arrests are extremely rare.
No, you really aren't.
Really? Damn, that claim I never made has been blown out of the water. The claim I did make, about the Israeli law enshrining national rights as belonging to a specific ethnicity, is obviously still correct though.
What?
podba@reddit
I mean the Arab parties have chosen not to be part of the coalition until recently. There have been numerous Arab ministers from Zionist party.
Your statement on Israeli justice system just portrays you as a victim of propaganda.
Also note that I brought numbers and data to compare and contrast Israel and the US. you brought your feelings. I don't care about them. nobody does.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
How many?
You did indeed completely fail to answer the question of how many Israeli Arab ministers there have been. But continuing your convictions about the numbers supporting your case, what percent of violent settlers are arrested and what percent are imprisoned? Maybe start with the Huwara Rampage, which involved hundreds of Israelis attacking a Palestinian town. How many received prison sentences?
podba@reddit
I'm not your research assistant. If you want to make a point, collect the data and make it.
So far, I've shown data on life expectancy, and numbers of parliament members.
You've shown imbecile propaganda and random anecdotes indicating you don't understand how coalition government works.
If you have a point with data and reference that suggests the gaps between Black and White Americans are smaller than the gaps between Jewish and Arab Israelis, please make it. otherwise, go copy paste nonsense you've heard on TikTok to someone else who is more interested than I am.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Yeah, that's about what I expected. The number is 0, by the way, none of the Israeli settlers involved in the Huwara Rampage received prison sentences for it. Two of them were briefly held in administrative detention, which is what some countries like Israel have instead of a real justice system.
Or, in other words, I've accurately demonstrated that the Israeli justice system does not in fact deliver justice, and so it having laws to prevent particular expressions of racism is essentially meaningless because they aren't enforced except in occasional token displays.
If you feel like replying, do please have another go at answering how many Arab Israeli government ministers there have been.
podba@reddit
LOL ok. what's this?
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-735938
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/defense/1677653817-israel-arrests-more-huwara-suspects-as-idf-general-decries-pogrom
Why do you lie on such easily disprovable things?
But I see that THIS is why you can't provide any data, because you know you're lying.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I'd strongly suggest looking up whether being arrested on suspicion of a crime and imprisoned for a crime are the same thing, and then coming back and apologising for such a basic and pathetic error.
podba@reddit
I really recommend google what an "indictment for terrorism charges" is, and how it differs from "arrest".
Perhaps that's where you can start your research into facts - the dictionary.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Brilliant stuff - so, going back to the numbers, what percent of settlers in the Huwara Rampage received prison sentences? And this time try to answer using an actual number rather than an another embarrassing deflection.
podba@reddit
The trial is ongoing, nobody has been sentenced yet. Trials in Israel take 2-3 years. That's the big "gotcha"? That the trial is ongoing and they haven't been convicted and the speed you'd like them to?
Why are you asking questions you can google rather than making points with DATA YOU HAVE.
After you've been repeatedly caught lying about "nobody was charged", when people were.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
The trial of how many is ongoing?
podba@reddit
Still not your research assistant.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
And good thing too, given you became deathly allergic to numbers about halfway through this comment chain.
podba@reddit
So, you don't have a number to back up your claim?
Consider not making it next time.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Why shouldn't I make factually correct claims, though? I mean if I was wrong you'd be linking to all the evidence that Israel has imprisoned some significant percentage of violent settlers. But you can't. Because Israel doesn't do that. Because it doesn't have a legitimate and functional justice system. It's so bad you won't even pretend to actually answer the questions about it.
podba@reddit
You didn't make factually correct claims. You said nobody was charged. and nobody was jailed, only administrative arrests. People in fact were charged. You lied. You were caught. Now you want me to do the homework you forgot to do. I refuse.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
No I didn't. I said nobody was given a prison sentence, but two were given administrative detention.
I mean, if I was trying to defend your position I wouldn't want to have to actually describe the facts either, because obviously writing out what percentage of violent settlers get prison sentences wouldn't put Israel in a good light. But I wouldn't try to defend your position.
podba@reddit
So you're not doing the research and continuing to lie and try to change the subject then.
Cool attempt. Not working though.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I didn't lie though, did I? I accurately pointed out that the Israeli justice system's willful refusal to convict violent settlers beyond a handful of token cases demonstrates the system itself to be illegitimate. And that's going to be true regardless of how many questions you dodge with your pathetic "I refuse to defend my position using details" thing.
podba@reddit
Not the successful derailing you thought this would be.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
What?
DanDan1993@reddit
.... You do know majority of Israeli are descendents to middle eastern/arab countries like Morocco, Yemen and Iraq?
Will they return there?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
You sound like a broken record.
DanDan1993@reddit
And you sound like you can't comprehend reality mismatching your worldview. Any argument to the point, or you rather stick to fallacies?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Not going to waste my time arguing with you, you’re just going to repeat the same damn lies over and over again whilst jerking off to the mass bloodshed of brown people.
Sick and tired of this barbarism. Go back to Europe, or you lose all right to complain about how Arabs choose to react to being ethnically cleansed
apzh@reddit
Famously pro-Israel JVP disagrees with you. These are objective facts that both sides of this issue agree on that you are calling “lies”.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/JVP-Jews-of-the-middle-east-fact-sheet.pdf
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
And why the fuck did you think I’d respect anyone on that bull?
DanDan1993@reddit
You have no idea what JVP is, huh? So you think an anti Zionist organization is lying too about Israeli being from the middle east?
What source would you agree to look at to see you are actually wrong about this?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
"Pro-Israel" is enough to make me disregard anything someone says in a vacuum
Your flair is enough for me to lose all respect for you. It's like I'm talking to a bot.
swelboy@reddit
What do you mean by “proof”, why isn’t that there are more Jews in Israel who identify as Mizrahi (middle eastern Jews) than Ashkenazi enough proof as it is?
Why exactly should someone who has spent their whole life in Israel be “sent back” to a place they have no ties to because their grandparents or great grandparents? Not all of Israel takes part in the atrocities against Palestinians either.
How can such a deportation even be organized? You can’t send millions of people to <20 countries overnight, and the only way the deportation could even start would require Palestine gaining complete control over Israel, without provoking a western intervention in the process. What happens if the places people are being “sent back” to refuse to take them in?
Also, do you think that the Russians living in Kaliningrad should be sent back to Russia? Kaliningrad was taken over and settled just like Israel was: forcibly deporting the original German (Germans in this case) inhabitants and replacing them with settlers.
DanDan1993@reddit
Did you actually read about JVP? OP was sarcastic when he said pro-israel because they are very much an anti Zionist organization so they are inherently against Israel.
So I ask again, if a source that is an anti Zionist organization won't do you good, what will?
apzh@reddit
This guy is an obvious troll. He blocked and then unblocked me for some reason. We’ve refuted his claims thoroughly enough and should stop feeding him now.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
I know who they are I just think it's funny talking down to your white european colonizing ass.
You probably hate JVP the most
apzh@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Voice_for_Peace?wprov=sfti1
You have to be trolling. No one is this stupid. Jesus Christ.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Either you’re replying to the wrong guy or you’re completely divorced from reality.
Either way I’m not putting up with you. Bye 👋🏿
TG1191@reddit
Just wanted to tell you, keep doing what you're doing LOL. These ziotards can't take it when someone talks to them in their language 😂
noncontrolled@reddit
Nice job bundling a David Duke coined slur with ableism! That really shows how good of a person you are!
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Believe me if I spoke they’re language I’d sound like I’m from 4chan in the alternate reality where Africans colonized the entire planet for spices
DanDan1993@reddit
But what does people from Yemen and Iraq have to do with Europe?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Lmaooo I broke the bot
DanDan1993@reddit
"I don't like what people say to me so I will just call them a bot to avoid answering something difficult"
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Fuck would I dignify a colonizer with a mutual conversation?
DanDan1993@reddit
Am I a bot or am I a colonizer? I'm confused. Why are you refusing to answer basic questions?
Can't admit you were wrong? womp womp
Naijan@reddit
You broke the bot :/
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
You are both.
mini_macho_@reddit
Bro you are the bot
podba@reddit
LOL you're insanely obsessed with your own race, posting it every second comment (literally nobody cares), but when someone points out that literally the majority of us have zero connection to Europe, and even those who do, are ethnically Middle Eastern you somehow stuff your ears and go lalalalalalala.
For a race obsessed person it's weird behaviour.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Meh meh meh meh meh
themightycatp00@reddit
That was the first message he sent you....
rollandownthestreet@reddit
You sound like you’re unable to learn things
Nearby-Complaint@reddit
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+percent+of+israelis+are+ashkenazi
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
So you admit the Ashkenazi are white and from europe?
You also forgot to include the soviet ones
Oh, and this popped up in your search too
https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/most-ashkenazi-jews-are-genetically-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8C11358210
Nearby-Complaint@reddit
Did I admit anything? I sent a link.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
That you didn’t even check to see it barely supports your bullshit claims
happycow24@reddit
Holy shit the political daggers have depth and are layered. How much longer, ~~Catiline~~ Bibi, will you test their patience?
Good luck protesters.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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bassman81@reddit
lol israel is a lot more like turkey or iran than israelis will admit
AniTaneen@reddit
I think you should look up what countries the Jews who make Likud’s voting base came from and you’ll notice an interesting correlation.
coverageanalysisbot@reddit
Sorry empleadoEstatalBot,
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I’m a bot. Read here to learn how it works or message us with any feedback so we can improve the bot for you.
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