If BYD was allowed to sell in the US then several car manufacturers would be in a lot of trouble. They make a very good product for a crazy price all things considered, and I totally agree that the ones that I've been in have made Teslas feel ridiculously overpriced. There really isn't much else in the space that can compete with them and they would sell a stupid amount of cars here given the chance.
Highly doubt that because most American don’t buy cheap small cars, many take long loan for big SUVs and trucks.
This isn’t a joke, we’ve lost all subcompact hatchbacks and sedans already, and subcompact crossover sales is very low. I don’t even mention most American still not without charger infrastructure issue.
Even though BYD finally finds way to come America, they actual wouldn’t threat local American automakers.
Their biggest threat to American OEMs would be the Shark, which rarely even gets mentioned.
The Seagull gets a lot of attention for its base price in China, but A segment cars are not exactly well received in the US, and even in Canada.
I saw a Shark with Mexico plates just this week driving around the Houston suburbs. It was neat. It seemed to be similar in size to like a Rivian R1T: bigger than a mid size but smaller than a full sized half ton. I bet they would sell very well here if the price was right.
I've seen about 5 sharks in my rough ass area since they've come out, they're already doing pretty well in Australia so I could definitely see people in America buying it.
They've got a bunch of oem accessories here that were designed by a 4x4 parts company.
BYD make plenty of cars from smaller than Tesla to bugger than Tesla.
The Dolphin is small. The seal is Model 3 size. Sealion is model Y size. They have a mid size truck also.
They do have the Tang and Song as SUV/Crossover and they are quite nice.
And there's also the Yangwang sub-brand which makes the U8, and that is a massive SUV that would fit in better.
They won't ever be allowed to be sold here simply due to the fact that the Chinese communist party controls all the major cooperations in China, including BYD. BYD, Geely and other Chinese car companies are considered national security threats because of this. This is also why there are barely any Huawei and ZTE phones. It's just the way things are.
The US could easily outlaw data collection on all imported cars and verify it's not happening. They're not allowed to be sold here because we legitimately cannot compete.
Volvo and polestar aren't seen as Geely themselves, it a bit of a loophole. Modern cars have alot of technology in them, some people would consider them computers with an engine attached. The issue is what the computer can do. Cars can already receive software updates remotely and even call 911 for you when you get in an accident. While yes these are good things, bad software has already been an issue for cars sold in the U.S. already. Recalls have been made due to software issues. All I'm saying is a car's computer system is something that can be exploited.
Political concerns aside, watching reviews of various BEV/PHEV things from China makes me realize how far ahead they are on charging, powertrain, and ADAS tech stuff. They have trouble with chassis tuning and enthusiast things, it would seem, but when it comes to building an electrified car that works...
I feel like if (when?) they enter the US market there will be a reckoning. Especially if we keep sleeping on electrification.
IIRC a lot of that has to do with how China is attempting to be as un-reliant on Oil as possible in order to avoid getting hurt from a potential Oil shortage. So while the rest of the world was laughing at Prius drivers, China was really leaning into an Electric market and getting ahead of everyone else.
Chassis tuning is possibly important however in parts of the US.
In Michigan, you're gonna need to be able to deal with bumps well, mostly in the form of potholes.
I think a bigger challenge is that BYD is largely tied to a battery company; I remember in 2008-2010ish era where they would show up and (may or may not have been coy) claim that these were simply 'reference designs' and would prefer others license their technology. How much of the 'why not' was fear vs patent encumbrance, IDK.
I think bigger challenge is 'price with gov subsidies accounted for' (because this will cause anti-dumping to come up in many markets) as well as 'overall reliability' (i.e. claims of BYD battery reliability being overstated and incidents suppressed) as far as the US Market.
Ironically, the 'smartest' thing BYD could do, is just 'overbuild' a vehicle in just the right ways to make sure it is *sure to be reliable if boring-ish*, grab a factory (Lordstown? lol), built it, and warranty it at a level that would make late 90s Kia blush.
Outside of that, I don't think they could break into the market at present TBH.
BYD just announced their 1MW super charging system (yes, 1 megawatt) with 10C batteries. Basically you get 0-100% in 6-10 minutes. That's just unheard of
I've been less than impressed with any of the ADAS that has made its way into export Chinese models. It certainly isn't up to even Hyundai or Mazda quality yet.
Maybe their domestic models are better.
From what I understand, yeah - the systems work better in China, sometimes for legal reasons. This is all just me watching western reviewers review cars in China though, no personal experience on my side of course.
It's not sleeping in electrification, it's just the infrastructure isn't anywhere close to being good enough. I'd rather see the entire train rail network get electrified first tbh.
The Dolphin is basically a Bolt with newer technology, I'm not sure how you're thinking it feels like a Lexus.
It's really nice and fills a gap in the market where GM left and Nissan allowed the Leaf to stagnate, but let's not get carried away.
I mean in terms of ride quality, the bolt (EUV) I drove rode incredibly well. For being a shitbox price point GM was building\selling them at, it rode really really well.
The rest of the car was "meh", but the chassis team over at GM doesn't fuck around. But yeah in most other ways it's not comparable to Lexus lol.
I got to ride an Uber where the driver had a Bolt EUV.
Not bad. Back seats were better than I remember for GM. Can't abide by that shifter mess tho. Nice ride quality. (Nice driver too)
I wouldn't call it a Lexus either. It was nicer than the OG Bolt (that felt shittier than my Ion 2 lmao) and honestly better than the backseat of my WRX, better than the backseat of a newer Soul, buuuuuut not as nice as a Rav4 Hybrid/Prime...
(I've had to take a lot of ubers lately.)
I've sat in one and its fine. It's not as bad as the MG4 base model (though I haven't tried the new Essential trim, which is more basic) and the MG4 causes some people serious back pain, but the Ora wipes the floor with it internally aside from luggage space. It's also far smaller than a 4 for a similar price (or an Ora on discount), at least in Australia, and the 4 in particular has a far better motor and battery for the money. And any law that allowed BYD to sell in the US would likely allow them in too. The Renault 5 also looks amazing but is not yet here :(
The other problem is that in Australia the only non-monochrome colours are pink and blue, and if you get pink you get a pink metallic interior which looks absolutely awful, so there's effectively one colour option if you want an acceptable interior. Meanwhile the Ora has 2-3 and the MG has 3-4 depending on trim.
It's not the car I'd pick if I was looking for a Chinese EV B-segment, that's for sure.
Agree about the MG4 but I think the Dolphin interior is nicer than the Ora. More spacious too.
The problem I have with the Dolphin is it's too expensive for what it is, and the SR model is crippled with a 70kW motor
I guess that's a matter of personal taste: I am not a fan of the "nautical" interior styling, and the Ora seats are very nice (and have the option for ventilated) and I like the splashes of colour. Aside from the absolutely awful boot space I found the Ora very spacious even with the compulsory sunroof on the GT. I agree that unless you absolutely must have the absolutely cheapest EV it's too expensive for such an awful motor, and oddly it's fairly heavy as well (1,650kg roughly in 150kW trim). GWM and SAIC both made their cars lighter despite BYD being hyped to the moon.
Also they got rid of any colour except dark washed out blue, it's so over. Genuinely a deal breaker for me.
Redditors literally tripping over themselves to suck BYD dick. Maybe it feels like a Lexus if your DD is a Nissan Kicks that was used as a rental.
Technology =! Luxury. I'm sure the BYD is fine. But I think most people in the US find it exciting because they can't get one here.
I think it’s the ride is more comfortable than the Lexus rx 350 f sport. My business / family fleet is currently:
Rx 350 f sport, Yukon Denali xl, 4Runner, Impreza, forester xt, mazda 3, Corolla, a model y, and 2 Tesla model 3s. I also have a 68 Pontiac restomod, but that’s not really comparable.
In the past couple years, I sold my bmw 5 series and Cadillac cts.
The byd is night and day better than any Nissan I’ve been in. It’s been better than any fca car I’ve rented in the last 5 years. The interior is better then infinities I test drove a couple years ago.
I know I have to many cars. I’m a California lawyer with a big family that loves cars.
It'll be the quiet. It's amazing how much more comfortable and "luxurious" it makes the driving experience. I have an MG ZS EV, which was the cheapest EV available in Australia when I got it two years ago, and it's based on a cheap small SUV. Fit is pretty good, but materials are pretty cheap and there's fairly obvious cost cutting going on...
...but it rides well, and that combined with the silence makes it surprisingly comfortable and soothing to be in. We had an S205 C-Class estate and much as I loved that thing, I'd actually rate the MG as being more comfortable (looking at you, 19 inch Pirelli run-flats).
> Nissan allowed the Leaf to stagnate
It's crazy to me that they make/made a Nismo version of practically everything, but never made a Nismo Leaf.
Give it a little more power, a sportier suspension and some good seats and that could've been a cool little hot hatch.
I’d guess the lack of proper battery cooling would make a faster version that needs more juice hard to do. The batteries already die early in places that get hot. Maybe with the next gen that’s supposed to actually have liquid cooling will have a nismo version.
No doubt that Tesla can be crappy and cheap. But that doesn't make BYD Dolphin luxury car. It is cheap entry model and handling is btw pretty horrible on anything else than dry pavement.
So painfully cringey watching Redditors try so hard to shit on an American company while glazing a Chinese one. Did you have tears in your eyes while you wrote this?
But I get your criticism. One side is full of unfair labor practices run by a dictator and.. wait.. sorry I lost the logic. Is there a Reddit handbook I missed for how to convince myself I love the Chinese government while hating Tesla?
That’s the joke lol.. to criticize Tesla for these things, and in response support an ACTUAL communist regime with ACTUAL slave labor is classic Reddit.
> That’s the joke lol.. to criticize Tesla for these things, and in response support an ACTUAL communist regime with ACTUAL slave labor is classic Reddit.
What about "both sides" means "supporting one side and criticizing the other" to you?
can you just see this from the lens of a guy liking one car and not the other?
as someone who has driven a tesla and been inside a byd seal in person, a lot of what OP said is true about the cars.
i don't give a fuck about your elon politics, i don't give a fuck about your concerns about china. these are fucking cars and it's easy to tell when one is better than the other in certain ways.
I’m a California car guy with wayyy to many cars. I was expecting a Nissan or fca level vehicle and was blown away. Maybe try venturing out of your bubble before believing everything is propaganda.
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I’ve been in every Tesla model but only in a BYD Atto 3. From those experiences alone, the BYD’s build quality is significantly better than a Tesla, no question about it.
OP didn’t mention anything about unfair labour practices or dictators - that’s just you. If you’re reading into this politically, again, that’s just you. The post merely talked about one vehicle being better than another.
The stagnation of Tesla (whose quality was already mediocre when their cars launched) might be the single greatest reason for the success of Chinese EVs other than the extensive government support they received
I haven't ridden in or driven the Dolphin, but yeah. I've been super impressed with BYD based on my time in Cambodia and Thailand. We Americans are delusional if we believe that Chinese vehicles are worse than their American counterparts. Dollar for dollar there's absolutely no comparison — some Chinese EVs that go for $18-25k are easily as good as Teslas costing 2x-3x as much.
I haven’t seen any talk about bud/xoami reliability and cost of ownership. I know it’s different for EVs, but I’d like to hear more on that talk but I’m cynical and understand you won’t get it here with their aggressive gorilla marketing, Chinese nationalism carrying their water, and people on the other side of the fence doing the exact opposite
This is mostly based on Teslas but my understanding is EVs are generally reliable in the sense that things aren't going to suddenly break 5 years from now. The problem is manufacturing defects and QA, as in the car was broken when you bought it and you just didn't know about it.
Honest question, how many modern cars will last 30 with basic maintenance? I’m not convinced that any cvt is that good. I’m also not convinced that we will still have a gas station on every corner with relatively cheap gas in 30 years.
Quite a few. Tons of Japanese cars, trucks and SUVs from the 90s are still driving around. Can't say really say the same for American cars but their pickups and SUVs are still around.
Alot of modern cars still uses normal automatic transmissions. Even the ones that do have a CVT just need to have the fluid changed to keep it in good condition.
The Chinese people themselves say that BYD software isn’t up to the industry leader standards.
This guy didn’t even find one con? What a blind ass review.
Political stuff aside, the reason why Tesla sales are down in Aus is the Chinese do it better on value. BYD, MG etc are killing the affordable EV market.
I've also been watching the price of second hand Model 3's and Y's come down quite a bit.
Bro I’m a California car guy with wayyy to many cars. I went in expecting a Nissan or FCA level vehicle and was incredibly blown away. Try venturing out of your bubble before assuming everything is propaganda.
I'm off to China for a month soon, and will definitely stop by as much Chinese branded dealerships as possible. Can't wait to see how they are in person and possibly get behind the wheel.
Yeah. Nah. I’ve seen enough videos of BUD shit randomly getting on fire to know to avoid Chinese cars like the plague. Thank god our government (Canada) pretty much blocked them from entering our market. Absolute shit heaps.
BYD is basically Volvo but Chinese. They are part of the same corporation. I don't like their interior more than Volvo. They don't just delete all the buttons and physical things unlike what Volvo did.
Who knew you could make a good car when the government dumps a couple hundred billion into your company instead of setting up over restrictive regulations (fuck you CAFE and CARB) that prevents you from selling cars consumers want
How much has the U.S. dumped into domestic auto makers by comparison?
If you include the ATVM loan program (literally billions), the Federal tax credits for electric vehicles, the 2022 IRA which provided clean vehicle credits and advanced manufacturing production credits, and other subsidies and incentives, I think you'll find that U.S. market isn't nearly as free as you make it out to be in comparison with Chinese government interventions.
The US government definitely subsidizes US companies but 1. The money the Chinese government gives goes a longer way because if cheaper labor and 2. The Chinese government also gives significant raw material discounts
Probably. I've spent a fair amount of time in China (and other parts of Asia) and it's amazing what a government can do in its own interest when they spend trillions of dollars on infrastructure (transportation, manufacturing, trade, scientific infrastructures) instead of spending that same amount of money on hopeless foreign wars like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yes. A controlled economy has amazing upsides. And lack of democracy allows China to think in terms of decades and centuries, rather than four- or eight-year planning cycles.
Until recently, the U.S. system ALSO had major upsides — individual and academic freedom, due process, helpful EPA regulations, a multiparty democracy, separation of powers, etc.
I fear that the U.S. is about be left with the worst of both worlds: a more-or-less totalitarian (or at least authoritarian, unaccountable) and functionally-single-party government without any of those freedoms or protections — AND an economy with no one at the helm, looted by the dumbest oligarchs imaginable.
>setting up over restrictive regulations (fuck you CAFE and CARB)
Sounds like you fundamentally don't understand the core concepts of governments, resources, and sustainability.
Plunging ourselves into environmental chaos for the sake of fun cars isn't a good government. Selling out our natural resources for the sake of cheaper cars isn't good governmental leadership.
>when the government dumps a couple hundred billion into your company
"overly restrictive regulations" that are some of the most emissions lax in the world and heavily incentivize EVs & PHEVs through carbon credit sales? Alongside the tax credit, the us gov has been shoveling money from ice manufacturer to ev manufacturer for years now.
I also think it's pretty comparable in road noise, interior quality, & qc to the refreshed tesla models. It's a nice car for the money but I don't think its a luxury experience at all.
yeah to be clear no debate here would love to have a few of the chinese cars in the states, particularly the xiaomi su7 that set that nurburgring lap a while back
even if u don’t want to own a chinese car, competition is good for the consumer, the model s would have a powered frunk by now.
but the model 3 & model y are in different classes to this and the refreshed models fix most of the noise & quality issues OP had
I'm in the UAE, and we get access to basically all the Chinese brands. BYD has been adopted as the new taxi standard, so I've ridden in both the Seal and the Han. The Seal is on par with the refreshed model 3 for sure, and I do agree with OP on the interior graphics and useability. Physical controls for the important stuff is definitely the way to go.
The Han is a proper Lexus competitor. It's being used to replace the Lexus ES as the Uber Black of choice, and does a really good job of it. Incredible ride, and the material quality is top notch. Whether it'll be as reliable as a Lexus remains to be seen, but it's a really good car.
I am moreso talking about hwo CAFE pushes for larger vehicle sizes and how the government has been pushing EVs without the proper infrastructure in place, it's a recipe for disaster
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