The hostage families have condemned israels ceasefire breach, saying sticking to the ceasefire and progressing to phase 2 was the best way to free the hostages.
Nice to know you don't care about what the actual hostages and their families think
What kind of moronic mental gymnastics is this? If they just returned all of the hostages in one fell swoop there would be no need for a multi-phase ceasefire deal
Also it’s not a “breach”. The ceasefire phase 1 was over and no second phase was in place. Hamas had their chance to accept a proposal and did not.
Why would hamas free them all when Israel is refusing to withdraw?
If they just returned all of the hostages in one fell swoop there would be no need for a multi-phase ceasefire deal
There is, because Israel said they would keep fighting even after the hostages are freed, so there's no incentive for hamas to free the hostages unless Israel withdraws.
Frame your question the other way - if Israel just withdrew from gaza there would be no need for a multiphase ceasefire deal and all the hostages would be returned.
Hamas had their chance to accept a proposal and did not.
Interesting framing. Israel had a chance to continue the ceasefire into phase 2 and refused to do so despite hamas committing to it.
Also it’s not a “breach”.
It is. The first phase ended but the ceasefire generally held beyond that period anyway.
Again the mental gymnastics are crazy. If we reframe the question and expect Israel to withdraw on Hamas’s terms it sort of ignores the fact that Hamas took random innocents as hostages in the first place as an act of barbaric violent terror.
Hamas didn’t commit to anything either. They were just willing to enjoy a prolonged period of Israel not attacking without any clear intent of returning hostages. Israel, in good faith allowed negotiations to play out, and Hamas didn’t accept the terms. Now Gaza is going to turn to rubble.
Defending a genocidal "state" that thinks its ok to secretly sterilize black Israelis just because they are black until very recently, while then enforce apartheid as recognized by the country for who the word was invented... is wild.
Genocidal is a very very extreme and untrue term but keep saying it until you believe it’s true
As for the forced sterilization, I’m not happy that happened either. But don’t weaponize it, as if there aren’t thousands of Ethiopians who migrated to Israel to escape antisemitism related persecution and live happily there now. There’s racism in every country, now Israel recognizes Ethiopian Jewish holidays and state holidays and they’ve always had equal rights as every other citizen.
Its the tip of the iceberg, there is strong evidence they are stealing organs from Palestinians without consent. Their organ banks are overflowing in a way no country in the world has. Refusing to release the bodies of prisoners that died mysteriously having never been charged with anything. Their politicians openly debate that its ok to rape Palestinians.
There are interviews with ex IOF soldiers talking about how they are trained by raiding intentionally homes that they know don't have anyone guilty in them, because otherwise it would interfere with an existing investigation. Dragging children out of bed in the middle of the night at gun point, then kidnapping one at random before releasing them miles away in the middle of nowhere.
Heck the shot and killed hostages trying to get help from soldiers standing with their arms in the air, no shirts on, in broad daylight, calling to them in their language for help. They mowed them down.
There are so many cases of them intentionally attacking known civilians, its insane. Like Doctors Without Borders, had a building far from anything else, that had been coordinated with the IOF, they lit it up with MG from a tank.
They have been found to lie constantly, while preventing any 3rd party sources from documenting or investigating anything.
Private equity firm is destroying the company I worked for. I was laid off when we didn't make record profits and only the same amount of record profits as last year because they over invested in trying to make more future money. Instead of focusing on maintaining the already amazing profits in a market sector we dominated and there is only so much growing we can do. So yeah, because I got hired from one position into the hardest dept in the company to get a job in, and was thus the newest hire in the department, when they downsized the already too small dept, the earliest hires were the ones let go.
Yep public companies going PE is just a death sentence to any business. I had a job offer that told me they were about to be bought out by Blackrock and I NOPED out of that interview as fast as I could.
Best of luck to you. The market is super tough right now
Thank you, and I sincerely hope you question your view on whats happening in Palestine. I easily was able to disprove something you said was a conspiracy. I have zero ill will towards the Jewish people.
“Might makes right” until they actually have to fucking fight for it.
They’re demand respect from my black ass while doing the same exact things Europeans do across the planet and then call me a Nazi when I flinch. Like 🤷🏿♂️
But if you're white its ok. I'll freely admit I've had to educate myself to "see more color", BLM really got me to put in the work and start to see just how fucked up things are, how subtle and deep the racism runs.
What I find interesting, is the clear ties between someone reddit all agrees to hate "Musk", and racist authoritarian parties like the AfD where he guest spoke, that are allied with.... Netanyahu's party (the only non European one in the coalition).
But their cognitive dissonance prevents them from seeing the links.
I'll freely admit as a white guy I've had to educate myself to "see more color", BLM really got me to put in the work and start to see just how fucked up things are, how subtle and deep the racism runs.
i'll give you this. Whenever the victims of colonialism fight back, who actually pays for it? Not the kings, not the presidents, not the rich. It's the common white folk that were plopped in front of them like human shields.
They conscripted hundreds, thousands of little white boys that might remind you of your brother or son to fight against Zimbabweans in their desperate charade to preserve "Rhodesia" and they all died. Nobody seemed to gaf about them. So it's beyond me why any average white guy would support this sort of nazi, white supremacy stuff when they don't even care enough about them to protect them
You might be surprised how far I know about all this. My grandfather was a French Legionnaire leading local populations that joined. My mother was born in Vietnam, and also lived in Algeria until the French got kicked out, and she was thrown on a plane in the middle of the night.
But what came of her experience? Well she became a professor focused heavily on French colonialism and the damage its done. She's even written books on france's involvement in the slave trade triangle, during the French "enlightenment period" ....enlightened my ass, profiting off slavery.
Hamas didn’t commit to anything either. They were just willing to enjoy a prolonged period of Israel not attacking without any clear intent of returning hostages. Israel, in good faith allowed negotiations to play out, and Hamas didn’t accept the terms. Now Gaza is going to turn to rubble.
It’s not a breach, it was over already.
Absolute blatant lies. The deal was to be down In multiple phase so the hostages would be returned and Israel stopped the killing. Israel refused the hostage by breaking the deal and begin its genocidal campaign.
If we reframe the question and expect Israel to withdraw on Hamas’s terms it sort of ignores the fact that Hamas took random innocents as hostages in the first place as an act of barbaric violent terror.
Or if we reframe that and expect hamas to release all the hostages on israels terms it sort of ignores the fact that Israel has continually occupied palestinian land in an apartheid regime for nearly a century and is actively colonising more every year in acts of barbaric horror supported by most israelis who repeatedly vote for genocidal governments.
Hamas didn’t commit to anything either
They explicitly committed to this ceasefire ans the progression to phase 2.
Again, you're ignoring the wishes of the hostages themselves and their families who condemned israels reignition of the war. They said the best way to get the remaining hostages back is phase 2.
Apartheid, occupation blah blah blah none of this is true. Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians as an act of peace. And it was a failed experiment. Within 3 years Hamas and PIJ ran the place ragged and started committing acts of terror in Israel.
In Israel proper, a sovereign nation, there genuinely no apartheid. Everyone lives the same.
If you want to talk about occupation and “apartheid” in the West Bank, that’s different. But y’all like to conflate Israel proper and the West Bank to prove your wet noodle narrative.
Again, there was no commitment to a phase two, because it was never agreed to. Not even in principle. If there was agreement, there would have been a plan in place, and it would be happening right now.
The ICJ literally ruled israel is violating the international law prohibiting racial segregation and Apartheid. Nice defense of some of the worst crimes against humanity possible.
You and all those defending this deserve to face a modern day Nuremberg
The ICJ is a kangaroo court. We will happily go up to the stand and defend our case. We would win.
Similar to how the ICC gave the plaintiffs a year to prove genocide and they asked for an extension because they couldn’t beyond a reasonable doubt, so Ireland requested that the goal posts be moved to change the definition of genocide.
It’s better to just ignore these international organizations. There is clear bias whether the ICC, ICJ, or more egregiously the UN where Israel has had more condemnations than China, Russia, and North Korea combined and Iran is at the helm of the human rights committee (LMAO)
Really? you say that while Hamas has literally stated since their inception that their one goal is to kill all Jews in Israel?
Meanwhile 20% of proper Israeli citizens are Muslim Arabs, can you look up the percentage of Jews in other Arab countries?
Fact is, actions speak louder than words, Israel so far seems to have only ever done retaliatory attacks, meanwhile it's getting constant attacks from all it's surrounding neighboring countries, it just seems crazy to me that you looking at this from the outside would side against them.
The fact that you refuse to even recognize any wrongdoings from the other side says enough, you only see this conflict as black and white, the arabs are innocent and oppressed that did literally nothing wrong, and the "zionists" are some monstrous inhumane beings that we can never understand, people like you are the reason peace is not here yet.
Man fuck off. There's no answer that would justify a genocide, and we're denouncing a genocide. I won't sit here to play your game and blatant attempt at deflecting the affirmation that Israel is an illegitimate and genocidal ethnostate.
You keep talking if you want. After all, these comments are public and you're just burying yourself under your own bullshit.
Man you really love to throw out that G word so much people have become numb to it, and you're still avoiding answering my question,
How about this; lets assume the power dynamic was flipped, how many Jews do you think would be left in the area? just a simple thought experiment, be honest with yourself, we have historical precedence and statement from the Arabs on what they want to do, but i want to see what you think would happen?
Think realistically for a second here. Do you actually think that the people of Palestine will be willing to bear down their arms after witnessing Israel yet again breaking the cease fire by carpet bombing their city and killing hundreds of civilians?
Even if Hamas disappeared overnight, Israel has proven that they're not to be trusted. What they're doing will only radicalize more people against them and the bloodbath will continue.
Do you actually think that the people of Palestine will be willing to bear down their arms
That's up to them. But if Palestine chooses to continue the war instead of accepting a ceasefire, then Palestine will suffer the consequences of that choice.
It is Israel who has proven once and again that they will continue to build settlements in the West Bank, and treat Gaza like a concentration camp with periodic "mowing the lawn" bombings, regardless of what the Palestinians do. They have done this since long before October 7th. Israel is the relentless aggressor, and October 7th was a desperate flail in defiance of that endless encroachment. Israel has shown now signs of letting up, so holding onto the only leverage Palestine has — the hostages — is the only prudent choice.
Can you guys just admit that you support the genocide at this point? Your country is full on fascist at this point and supporting this. You guys don’t want peace and wouldn’t care if every single Palestinian dies.
Always moving the goals and breaking ceasefire agreement isn’t the way for peace.
Even if that’s true (it’s insanely false), there must be a better way to oppose genocidal ideology (not actions, just ideas) than preemptively committing genocide, no?
Of course not. Genocidal ideologies have no right to exist. That's why the genocidal ideology of Palestinian nationalism must be permanently stamped out.
Genocidal ideologies have no right to exist. Period.
No, by stamping out the genocidal ideology. The same way that the genocidal ideology of Nazism was stamped out in Germany, and the genocidal ideology of Japanese imperialism was stamped out in Japan.
i can't imagine any sane person reading the post above and immediately thinking "I can't believe Palestine would do such a thing". Holy shit dude, american literacy at it once again
You guys are not beating the "cartoonishly evil" allegations lmao. No wonder you guys got played into voting your own dictator into office if the majority of you really thinks like this.
They did. Israel broke it, and now you're pushing the blame onto their victims just like an abusive bully would. I'm not surprised tho, you're american after all. Their idiosyncrasy is the exact same "bomb civilians and then call them terrorists" bullshit that you're so famous of.
Good riddance, seems like Trump is finally getting that wall around you that he wanted so much. Your global hegemony won't be missed.
Just release the hostages, it's so fucking simple. Though, the war going is in interest of bigger powers in the region anyway, since they just use it as a proxy against the west.
So no matter what happens and no matter how many ceasefire will happen, there's always going to be a conflict one way or another. Also remember, Hamas leaders having a nice lifestyle outside the Palestine (guess who's paying for that) claimed many times they need dead civilians in Palestine.
Do Americans support their military despite the fact that it has killed millions of civilians and has been caught committing war crimes and rapes across the world?
The guy you are replying to literally thinks because Palestinians has “genocidal ideology” (the audacity of this claim lmao), Israel is justified to preemptively commits genocide to kill all men, women and children in Gaza: https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/s/zTzrvKAIN8
Ending resistance to Israel means the end of Palestine. Israel exists to erase Palestinians. Palestinians have tried the diplomatic route and Israel rejected it over and over, which led to the abandonment of the Palestinian authority and the rise of Hamas. Israel has been killing Gazans yearly since before Hamas was founded.
By May 15th 1948 250,000 Palestinians had already been ethnically cleansed by Zionist militias.
The Deir Yassin massacre happened in April. As did the ethnic cleansing of Tiberias, Safed, Jaffa, Haifa, and dozens of villages. The Arab states declared war on May 15th and cited these massacres as the reason. Palestine did not declare war since the Palestinians did not have an army, as noted by the Yishuv intelligence officials the Palestinians were almost entirely unarmed.
Israel did not exist on May 14th. They unilaterally declared independence against everyone's wishes, including Britian and the US (who were working on a 5 year transition period)
How quickly the goalposts move from "Palestine is peaceful and diplomatic towards Israel" to "Ok, Palestinians think that they have a right to destroy Israel through violence, but that violence is totally justified!"
Though he reiterated Hamas’ offer to integrate into a Palestinian unity government
So this is seemingly speakig about a Palestinian unity gov Which Hamas is seemingly wanting to be apart of. So they arent wanting to leave gov just are willing for partner to govern with them
Fact of the matter is that Israel can save money on bombs, get the hostages, and get Hamas out of power, but chooses ethnic cleansing. Today is dropped leaflets saying this:
occupation forces dropped leaflets in Gaza overnight on Wednesday telling civilians "the world map will not change if all the people of Gaza vanish."
The harrowing message implored Gazans to leave "before the implementation of Trump’s forced plan—which will impose your forced displacement whether you like it or not."
The message continued, "We have decided to make a final appeal to those who wish to receive aid in exchange for cooperating with us. We will not hesitate for a moment to help."
Otherwise, it suggested, "No one will feel for you, and no one will ask about you. You are left alone to face your inevitable fate."
"Neither US nor Europe cares about Gaza," it stated, before concluding, "The game is almost over, and only a little remains. Whoever wants to save themselves before it’s too late, we are here to stay until Judgment Day."
You are saying Russia is justified for all their war crimes because Ukraine refuses to surrender. Actions have consequences right?
If Ukraine had committed an October 7th style attack against Russia, Russia would be completely justified in fighting Ukraine until Ukraine surrendered.
This is what the anti-Israel left has argued since literally the day of the attacks. From the beginning, the left has defended October 7th as "legitimate resistance against oppression".
Because in your argument, as long as one side commits wrong of any degree, an unlimited degree of retaliation and escalation is justified.
You literally think just because Hamas was the aggressor for this war, unlimited killing of Palestinian civilians is justified until the unconditional surrender of Hamas.
So using your own logic, since Israel was the aggressor at West Bank, unlimited killing of Israeli civilians is justified until Israel pulls out of West Bank unconditionally.
It’s not me, it’s you, who is trying to argue that Oct 7th is righteous and justified.
Because in your argument, as long as one side commits wrong of any degree, an unlimited degree of retaliation and escalation is justified.
Again, this is literally the anti-Israel crowd's position. They argue that literally anything Palestinians do to Israelis, including the mass rape of Israeli women and the mass slaughter of Israeli children, is entirely righteous and justified because of Israel's alleged wrongdoing.
Your actions prove it. Every single action that the anti-Israel left has taken since October 2023 proves that they there is no act of Palestinian violence that you will not support.
Show me the friends you keep and I'll show you who you are.
It's just like the left said after Charlottesville. If you welcome violent bigots into your movement with open arms, then the entire movement is responsible for that violent bigotry being done in their name.
And why they would do it when they can keep milking the Western world for money. After all, it's not a hard guess where all the humanitarian help and money ends.
And after so a long time there's no evidence the money was put to a good use.
I did not. Hamas can only be destroyed by destroying Gaza. They are among the civilian population that Israel is massacring. They have reduced Gaza to rubble and Trump/Netanyahu are openly calling for the final expulsion of all 2+ million Palestinians in Gaza. That is the priority over the hostages. Otherwise, they would have followed through with Phase 2.
You don’t understand the situation then. Israel is the one who claims Hamas = all Palestinians in Gaza. I believe Israel has the means to destroy Hamas without dropping a single bomb. Guarantee Palestinian sovereignty and allow them to live in dignity with access to basic needs and services. Instead they are killing thousands of innocents and have reduced their healthcare infrastructure to rubble.
The IDF is the single greatest contributor to Hamas recruitment.
The reality is that, as things stand right now, granting Palestinians sovereignty would only encourage more terrorism and violence. Palestinians need to lay down their arms and actually prepare to govern their own state.
Millions of Palestinians in Gaza have laid down their arms and are attempting to rebuild and survive in the rubble created by Israel. Hamas is the minority who have the weapons. The reality is that if your family was buried under your home then I think you would be susceptible to joining any extremist group. Israel has the power to limit Hamas recruitment numbers. But their goal is ethnic cleansing and control of Gaza. Nothing more.
When every last Palestinian is pushed out of Gaza you will make up some other justification. They are saying it openly and you still don’t care. You have made up your mind.
No, they are just going to murder them with bombing and snipers, starvation, blocking medicine from going through, my point is you when the time come that this genocide will obvious to see, you’ll defend the genocide of them
They are literally ramping it up right now and again, you’ll defend the mass murdering of innocents. You already said that they don’t deserve freedom or self determination, I’m supposed to think you above defending genocide? Also the death toll is likely in the 100s of thousands according to experts, that death toll is severely undercounted (because Israel destroyed their healthcare infrastructure, making it impossible to really keep out and Israel won’t let anyone in to do a count.)
Everyone deserves freedom. It’s not practical or logical to disengage when all indicators point to violence continuing and even escalating. We don’t need another failed state in the Middle East.
It’s not practical or logical to disengage when all indicators point to violence continuing and even escalating.
This is exactly why they haven't given up the hostages. Israel has outright stated that the occupation would continue regardless. The Palestinians don't want that and the hostages are their only leverage.
What you're saying is that you don't have a legitimate response to my comment, so you've chosen to be dismissive instead. It doesn't make sense for Hamas to give up the hostages without a guarantee that Israel will stop oppressing Palestine, because that's been their goal all along. This point of view shouldn't be controversial. It's pragmatic.
They have a right to be pragmatic, so does Israel. Hamas needs to be absolutely eradicated, regardless of the status of hostages. They cannot keep governing Gaza going forward.
In all likelihood we are going to all witness 2+ million human beings violently expelled from Gaza. And that will be unlike what we have seen so far. every Palestinian who resists will be labeled a terrorist. It’s been the same thing for decades. Ethnic displacement and oppression of Palestinians. I hope I’m wrong.
This is pure Israeli propaganda, not unlike what the US used as an argument to prevent the abolishment of slavery. Palestinians have to take up arms because peaceful protests and discussions don't work when your opponent does not have a conscience, and the world does nothing when Israel commits acts of terror and genocide for almost 80 years. It's only when oppressed people finally fight back that the global 'West' even looks at them. Additionally, you might want to look up how many peaceful demonstrations resulted in a non-violent reply from Israel (hint: none).
Yeah I agree, they should stay put in their concentration camps and get killed off on the whims of the European colonists living and partying right outside the illegal border wall.
Because it is forbidden by international law? You really need to step up your hasbara game. Also, there were regular airstrikes on Gaza for decades, but you'll find a way to whatabout anything if you try hard enough. Nobody cares about killing brown people but God forbid they fight back.
The question was with the hopes that you'd actually look something up for the first time in your life, but I guess that is too tall a task. I give up, have a day.
Here and here are two (respectively Israeli and American) documentaries on some of the beginnings. Watch that and you'll find out if you pay attention.
Oh so nothing can justify a fertilizer rocket that can barely break a rooftile but dropping guided R9X Hellfire missiles on a hospital courtyard is fair game? You need to go back to the womb, you're not done yet.
Armed protest gets your urban centre flattened by bombs. Peaceful protest gets your ubran centre flattened by bulldozers to make room for Israeli settlements. There's no winning for them.
Most Palestinian homes get flattened because a resident of the house participated in an act of violence against the IDF or civilians. I disagree with the policy, but that’s what happens most of the time.
I can’t respond to your other comment for some reason. The music festival that got absolutely shot to shit didn’t have any IDF presence. A lot of the border communities only had armed police at first to confront the terrorists. A lot of all people that morning were asking where the fuck the IDF was. Military bases were also targeted of course.
I've never heard you guys make that distinction when Israel is bombing residential buildings in the middle of the night taking out multi generational families in one swoop.
So if doing that to take out one sleeping hamas guy is cool with you then a festival should be no problem.
Kill people relentlessly. Antagonize them. Make sure they can never see you in an agreeable light. Blame them for all the violence you forced upon them with 0 accountability.
compared to the IDF, that is pretty close, yes. No amount of arms and adults will help you against an airforce when you have no standing army or air defense.
Well maybe it’s a bad idea to attack the stronger army then? Imagine firing rockets at a militarily superior side and then being surprised when you get wrecked.
Nobody will do air raids if there’s nothing to target. Imagine Gaza without tunnels or rocket launching platforms. Imagine actually caring enough about your own people to not put them through constant bombardment.
Maybe you ignored what I said, but I will tell you something that you are free to believe or not. Hamas's existence is purely reactionary. The bombing and siege predates them.
granting Palestinians sovereignty would only encourage more terrorism and violence
So the one thing that Palestinians have been pursuing since they were deprived of it, sovereignty and self determination (which go hand in hand) is the one thing you believe they should not have. Despite Hamas stating they would lay down their arms if such a goal was achieved.
So you dirtbags would deprive people of their freedom and rights to self determination because Israel might reap the consequences of their action? Fuck you
No, Hamas just needs to surrender. They won't do that per the article:
Hamas, which does not accept Israel’s existence, says it is willing to hand over power to the Western-backed Palestinian Authority or a committee of political independents but will not lay down its arms until Israel ends its decades-long occupation of lands the Palestinians want for a future state.
Giving up violence and not encouraging it would be another step. Israelis deserve to live in peace without having to worry about maniacs firing rockets at them or being randomly stabbed.
The majority of israeli citizens is in favor of the genocide. In fact, most of them think their regime isn't murdering enough palestinians. If they wanted to live in peace they would oppose genocide and colonialism.
I didn't say they deserve to die. You simoly can't systematically oppress a people and not expect violence. Those who truly want peace will support an end to the systematic oppression perpetuated by the State of Israel.
And neither are you, openly justifying genocide, systematic oppression, and colonialism. Zionists are just as shameless as white settlers were in South Africa and Rhodesia.
Maybe you should see the videos of the settlers in the West Bank, Palestinians don't get to live without fear of being shot or stabbed a random day a settler is bored.
Maybe Israel should stop financing the settlements if they really want peace, witch they don't, they want land.
Israel's not put a peaceful solution on the table though. This whole rhetoric of 'this whole thing stops when Hamas surrenders' only focuses on the symptom and not the disease, which is the oppression of Palestinians.
There was a time when the Palestinians had a chance to live peacefully in Israel, we saw what happened with the intifada and the second intifada, they were given plenty of chances.
The oppression of Palestinians is a direct result of perpetual war. If that ends, the pressure on Israel to grant the Palestinians a state would be impossible to withstand. Palestinians have also rejected deals in the past that would’ve granted them their own state.
So your solution is for palestinians to just roll over and die until the Israeli regime decides to gracefully create a puppet state for them to live in? And blaming the oppressed for their own oppression is not unexpected at all. Classical zionist.
Why would they surrender? Israel has given them no incentive to surrender, other than they may stop killing Palestinians, although they haven’t officially committed to that. And surrender means members, regardless of committing any actual crimes, will face life in prison, where they will likely be tortured, possibly raped, and maybe even killed.
But absolutely not negotiating a peace, right? It’s amazing how you Zionists have convinced the world that Hamas is the one that doesn’t want peace. Israeli propaganda rivals that of Russia and Nazi Germany.
Why were Israel negotiating with Hamas for the hostage exchange if that was the only goal? Why are they mainly killing women and children? What is actually wrong with you, that you see Israel murdering children and you can't even blame them or feel disgusted by their actions. Do you hold that much hatred for the Palestinian people?
Breaking into people’s houses and deliberately gunning children down is kind of different than striking terrorist infrastructure embedded in civilian areas.
"Terrorist infrastructure" the Canadian says in an article that starts with Israel bombing a family home where they killed 16 people, 8 of which were a father and his 7 kids. Huhuh
"uhm but were they targetting Hamas? Then it's fine to kill 16 civilians" I guess genocide just runs too deep in the canadian spirit to be extricated from it
Intent is everything in this case. If they were targeting something and civilians are killed, it’s a tragedy. Collateral damage is without a doubt the worst part of war.
Okay, just keep spitting defense for yet another horrible attack on civilians by Israel. I hope someone's paying you for this shit because otherwise, you're just a damn ghoul of a person (you'd still be a ghoul if you were getting paid but at least I'd understand it then)
Fuck yeah, if that’s proven to be true, line them up against the wall and shoot them. I’m not saying that atrocities haven’t happened. When you’ve got people conscripted, there are bound to be some sickos who wear the uniform.
They had offers on the table. They rejected them because surrendering their arms and power over Gaza was never an option in their minds. These are the guys that said they want to do Oct 7th over and over again.
That's not true. Israel didn't even want to begin phase 2. They kept demanding extensions to phase 1. The right wing coalition is cheering for more war right now.
This doesn’t have to happen in phases. they don’t need to trickle in a few hostages here or there.
Lay down your arms, give everyone back in one fell swoop. Fighting is over. It’s a very very very simple. We have been saying these for a year and a half. The right wing coalition is asking for more war because Hamas is using human beings, innocent humans, as bargaining chips and “leverage”.
You’re saying this like it’s a matter of fact when it isn’t. Israel has made it clear that they intend to eliminate Hamas. But that’s either through death or demilitarization. This is well known. For all of the vilification Bibi gets, he’s said this maybe 1000x. These are the scenarios:
If Hamas returns hostages, surrenders weapons, relinquishes power = war is over and allows the international community to step in and start the path toward sovereignty
If Hamas returns hostages, does not disarm = fighting continues
It couldn’t be more simple. But they don’t want the former because the fighting has never been about Palestinian liberation, it’s about killing the “Yahud”. Always has been, always will be.
Nah. They made it clear they won’t take kindly to terrorists and insurgents and those two options I listed were always on the table. Ball is in Hamas’s court to come forward, surrender, and release everyone. If they don’t want to they’ll die, and there will sadly be collateral damage.
Israel agreed to terms which would have gotten them their hostages back. Israel decided that wasn't what they wanted. Israel desk t want their hostages back. They want Palestinians to disappear. Nothing less.
This is genuinely a boldfaced lie that you have gaslit yourself into believing for whatever reason. The propaganda machine is really working overtime.
The terms that Israel has rejected all required thousands of dangerous prisoners to be released. As much as you like to say “oh they’re just children, there’s no due process” the vast majority committed violent acts (stabbings, shootings, etc.) against Israelis.
Just release the hostages or more people die. That’s it.
The terms Israel "rejected" (which they already agreed to) also required Israel to withdraw troops from Gaza before the phase 2 exchange would begin.
This could have been an end to the conflict and Israel could have gotten their hostages back. The point of the agreement was to slowly de-escalate.
the vast majority committed violent acts (stabbings, shootings, etc.) against Israelis.
This is a bold-faced lie. Yes, holding people without due process is bad. Most of them haven't been charged with anything, let alone "violent acts".
Furthermore, they're subject to a two-tiered justice system where Israelis are granted due process, Palestinians aren't, Israelis enjoy looser laws (e.g. in regards to protesting), while Palestinians take plea bargains in the face of near-certain conviction in sham trials.
And most importantly: Israeli wasn't to release all prisoners in phase 2. Not even in phase 3. I'm sure there really are some terrorists in custody. Then don't release them. Release those in custody for flying Palestinian flags.
Instead, Israel decided to prolong the conflict by continuing to occupy Gaza and committing more terrorist strikes on Palestinian civilians.
Just release the hostages or more people die. That’s it.
It's clear they don't care about the hostages. If they did, they would have stuck to the ceasfire plan.
There was no definitive “plan” past phase one or else there would be no reason for Israel to go back to attacking Hamas. How are you not understanding this? Everything past phase 1 was tentative at best and total bullshit at worst. Either way, the only way for the ceasefire to continue was for there to be an actionable plan in place. There wasn’t so fighting resumed.
At any point Hamas can come forward and say “we are releasing all the hostages” and they aren’t. Ball is in their court. It’s not on Israel to make concessions, they didn’t kidnap those who are hostages. Surrender or die. Can’t blame Israel for taking that stance.
Why are you ignoring all the abhorrent shit Israel has done and continues to do? Isn't it equally valid to take a hardline stance in this way: not to release hostages until Israel ends their occupation and human rights abuses and war crimes?
Why are you out here covering for Israel's terrorist attacks? It's fucking evil, and I can do the opposite: it's also evil when Hamas attacks civilians.
I said "the plan may not have been super concrete". I also asserted it was "actionable" which you specifically objected to. Dude, everyone can see the text you're replying to. Who do you think you're fooling?
Will you find it as funny when Israel is uninhabitable in the semi near future? I wonder will all the belligerence be worth it when israelis are the new palestinians
“Israel” only exists to sow chaos and disorder in the Middle East. It is a military base. Their “Defense force” are raiding parties. Every “Citizen” is a soldier. Same with European colonizers in the America. Same with Europeans colonizing and enslaving Africans.
Even if you are white like them they don’t give a darn about you beyond conscripting you as disposable cannon fodder so they can continue to steal land and murder women.
Give them the same respect they give us. Fucking none.
“Israel” only exists to sow chaos and disorder in the Middle East. It is a military base. Their “Defense force” are raiding parties. Every “Citizen” is a soldier. Same with European colonizers in the America. Same with Europeans colonizing and enslaving Africans.
Even if you are white like them they don’t give a darn about you beyond conscripting you as disposable cannon fodder so they can continue to steal land and murder women.
Give them the same respect they give us. Fucking none.
Most of the US isn’t white but you don’t intentionally misunderstand accusations of white supremacy and European imperialism when it comes to that. In fact you regard the non white populace as victims of it. We are the primary victims and guinea pigs to it.
I've generally been supportive of Israel. But you can't morally fight a war that kills a lot of civilians over a small number of hostages. I don't think 20 hostages can justify this war any longer. You just can't kill 10,000 more people over 20 hostages.
Fighting until Hamas surrenders is a valid war goal. But I don't think that really is Israel's true goal, at least now, if it ever was. Does Israel believe it has a realistic chance of actually accomplishing it?
Alright, then there are no reasonable grounds to believe genocides is occurring.
Give me picture proof that genocide has occurred. Without it, I simply won’t accept it at all.
I need to see footage of the IDF slaughtering whole cities. Just like you need to see a whole ass rape victim that was likely raped and immediately killed by Hamas.
Also, prove to me 48k Palestinians died. I need to see a picture of each of their bodies.
I will only count a dead Palestinian if you can show me a direct photo of their dead body. Otherwise, there is no proof that person died nor ever even existed.
Get the fuck out of here rape denying terror simp.
Y’all love using the term “ethnic cleansing” like it’s some “gotcha”. Are you guys capable of independent thought, or do you just regurgitate any words with two or more syllables that make you feel mildly intelligent?
0 Jews in Gaza
2 Million Arabs in Israel
Just give the hostages back and lay down arms and it’s over. So easy. There are no other arguments needed. If that isn’t a viable solution in your eyes, you want the conflict to drag out just as much as you claim the right wingers in Israel do
Israeli politicians are rushing to declare their intention to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. You think that they are all liars when they say this is what they want? After mass murdering tens of thousands of Palestinians?
I know that the working assumption is that everyone is too stupid to understand the malevolent intent of Israel, even after it commits genocide, but please give us some credit. You Zionists have been cheering for mass murder and ethnic cleaning and atrocities for the last 18 months non-stop. You’ve convinced us that this is what you actually want.
If I had to have a drink for every time someone incorrectly claimed “ethnically cleansing” and “genocide” I would have died a million times over. It’s getting tiresome and frankly it takes away from actual genocides.
It’s not about being “stupid”. I don’t think any of you are stupid just wildly misguided and misinformed. All Israelis want is to be left alone.
But keep cheering for the “Kaybar Kaybar Al Yahud / death to Israel” crowd.
They've never wanted the hostages back, that much has been clear for so long, unfortunately.
Also during previous "hostage-for-prisoners (aka Palestinian hostages)" exchanges, Israel has gone ahead and captured even more Palestinians than they've released, almost right away.
Israel was offered all hostages back in return for no invasion by Oct 10 when before they also wanted hostages held by Israel returned. If this was only about hostages then none of this would have happened.
So let's say I break into your house, kill your wife, take your daughter hostage, and demand that you agree that I won't face any consequences for killing your wife in exchange for returning your daughter... and you think that makes ME the victim when you bomb everyone and everything around me?
Do you hear yourself? What do you think Zionists have been doing to Palestinians for decades now? Do you know how many Palestinian "prisoners" (aka hostages) that Israel has had in custody well before Oct 7th?
So when Hamas does it, lol resistance fighters get wreked, but when Israel does it, "Oh woe for the poor children." Fine, send your people's soldiers to go guard their children, see how they react, I'm sure they'll be grateful and not stab you in the back at all.
There's clear historical context of decades of apartheid and oppression that lead to this. Hamas didn't just prop up and start attacking because they felt like it, or they have this deep seeded hatred of Jews with no explanation.
They have something to resist, unlike Israel who started this by taking over Palestine and oppressing the people who lived there
So what you're saying is that if the women of the surrounding countries, who are under a gender apartheid, were to mass murder their husbands, you'd support that as 'resistance'?
The IDF has been mass murdering and imprisoning Palestinians since before Oct 7th, and at an exceptionally larger rate since then. Regardless of how hard you defend the actually ongoing mass murder of children.
If the women in countries with Sharia Law happened to kill some of their husband's while resisting and fighting for their rights, yes I would consider that resistance.
Anything to help you sleep at night defending the bombing of countless children. If it's not genocide it's ethnic cleansing, it's depraved, and it's inexcusablely wrong.
So what you're saying is that nobody should be allowed to do war if the other side has children, except for 'the oppressed' which is this quantum category that includes people who want to murder ALL the children in another country but haven't been successful at it.
So let’s say I break into your house, kill your wife, take your daughter hostage, and demand that you agree that I won’t face any consequences for killing your wife in exchange for returning your daughter... and you think that makes ME the victim when you bomb everyone and everything around me?
If 20 of your family members were held hostage and the rest were being blockaded and brutalised, and you had tried every legal recourse but you were facing implacable monsters, then yes.
Great topic shift! Really smoothly done! You started with “Since when are Palestinians allowed to fight back?” and moved to “There are only millions of Palestinian refugees in other countries! Why can’t we ethnically cleanse the rest?!”
Wait, am I giving you too much credit? You did know there are millions of Palestinian refugees in other countries, right?
No, the land belongs to Egypt, unless you're of the mindset that if I steal your wallet, and then someone steals that wallet from me, it should be returned to me and not you.
That's an interesting belief, but even if we take the perspective of you only leasing the house and land or were staying there because a relative owned it, does that negate any of the things I did to you?
Now let's say I break into your house, kill your wife, take your home as well as hundreds of thousands of others, force you and everyone else to live as a refugee, then to do the same again to more families, and continuing to do so for decades into a continually decreasing area. And you think that makes ME the victim when you bomb everyone and everything around me.
Bullshit. The true reason is to butcher Palestinians and ethnically cleanse them until Bibi's poll numbers go back up. The final solution to the Palestinian problem is coming
They're working on that as we speak, read the headline. What part of total food blockade is so difficult to comprehend? Theyre currently Auschwitz-ifying Gaza? Hello?
Have fun explaining that to the families of the remaining hostages who were pleading for Phase 2 of the ceasefire. All hostages were slated to be released and now who knows because of Israel.
HAMAS refused to provide proof of life for the rest of the hostages. THey're already dead. They even tried throwing a random body in to one of the exchanges because they couldn't get the real one.
I said this before on some sub, but it was Johnson and the Democrats that kept the US in Vietnam while lying about what was going on. And it was Bush and the Republicans that marched to Iraq.
Both political parties are just two sides of the same coin. No matter how much libs/conservatives or democrats/republicans hate each other, they’ll all come together and hold hands when it comes to launching mass murdering campaigns in Asia.
Until the US permits an arms embargo / sanctions on Israel.
Which will NEVER fucking happen because Washington is the real occupied territory, forget West Bank and Gaza.
It makes me unbelievably sick that we unflinchingly support these middle eastern nazis, no number of war crimes or innocents killed will ever be enough.
It's the other way around, I promise you. Or at least a shared convenience. Israel is very often America's catspaw in the Middle East, their unsinkable aircraft carrier.
I know that they're a proxy / perfect excuse for the military industrial complex to steal taxpayer dollars.
It's such a great deal for Israel, you put the Palestinians in tiny camps, blockade and collectively punish them to their breaking point, and then cry terrorist terrorist! Jihad! Jihad! when they fight back to the willfully ignorant western media and politicians.
Like at this point terrorism is just the new communism excuse except instead of Viet Cong it's Hamas.
How exactly is it any of this a great deal for israel. Ballistic missiles fired at them from Iran, rockets from Lebanon and a ground incursion from Gaza.
Israel would cease to exist tomorrow were it not for that military industrial complex
I wouldn't be touting SA as any sort of success story, black south africans were far better off under apartheid than they are today, it's a borderline failed state
And in any case there is no apartheid within the state of Israel. Arabs coexist quite happily with israelis every day, they are called Arab israelis and there are over 2m of them
I wouldn’t be touting SA as any sort of success story, black south africans were far better off under apartheid than they are today, it’s a borderline failed state
Year, the killings and brutality and torture were better than freedom! Let’s kill and torture the Palestinians, it’s good for them!
And in any case there is no apartheid within the state of Israel.
There is very clear apartheid in the West Bank. But you knew that already.
The land is owned by no one and the palestinians by themselves dont want to become Israeli, and arent Israelis, therefore they dont get the protection of being Israeli.
And in any case there is no apartheid within the state of Israel.
Didn't the British colonize and ultimately annexe North Ireland? The Israelis are actively colonizing West bank, with 700,000 settlers to prepare it for annexation, and you aren't understanding that that's what I'm talking about when I speak of apartheid?
Unlike Ireland the west bank did not become a part of the occupying state, what happens there is not in the state of Israel, defacto Israel is not an apartheid state.
How willfully ignorant
funny you keep using this phrase when simultaneously ignoring the 2 million arabs that actually do live equally in the state of Israel
If you want to see true seperation try beeing LGBTQ in gaza, they will happily seperate your head from your body
But AIPAC buys the politicians. We, the taxpayers, are their bitch.
The “value” is non existent to the US as it only causes more risk of future attacks and retaliation and more money on drawn out wars while Israel sits on its hands and sacrifices US troops and risks the lives of innocent civilians
Oh yeah- and Israel is clearly targeting women and children in the process to make it even more sickening
The top 20 lobby groups in America are internal business groups with very little care of foreign policy. Also, that is not the only way AIPAC establishes control of the American political class.
Paid Birthright propaganda trips making sure Jewish students at top universities recognize their required allegiance to Israel. Subsidized trips to other students at elite universities to make sure they hear the one sided Israeli narrative and making sure Palestinians are ignore, [going so far as to remove people who ask questions] (https://forward.com/opinion/416545/i-was-kicked-off-birthright-for-asking-questions-about-the-occupation/). Getting people into high levels of government with AIPAC/Israeli connections, targeting the correct people, etc.
What exactly is wrong about a private organization helping fund trips to Israel for Jews to learn about their homeland and heritage? Would you be mad if Italy did that for Italian Americans or Greece did that for Greek Americans?
You clearly are engaging in antisemitic conspiracy theories when you engage in rhetoric that Jews are controlling America and making sure Jews "swear allegiance to Israel" and then "establish control of the American political class."
It all sounds so deeply brainrotten and antisemitic.
Would you be mad if Italy did that for Italian Americans or Greece did that for Greek Americans?
Would you be mad if the CCP or Russia did it and carefully crafted a narrative around it to hide their activities?
Go to any elite institution, places where the next generation of people in power are coming though and see the influence there. Yes, Israel has carefully crafted a system of propaganda designed to capture current and future leaders.
Being against Israel is not being against Jews any more than being against apartheid South Africa was being against White people or being against the Nazis was being against the German people. It is another well crafted narrative that Israel has successfully pushed, especially in America, where any criticism of Israel or undue influence in politics by Israeli government and lobby groups linked to a foreign entity is labelled antisemitic, a narrative you are also pushing.
The thing is the pendulum always swings back, and I'm actually way more worried for normal Jewish people who do not have strong feelings towards Israel or think that Palestinians need to be ethnically cleansed from the area, and the melding of the Jewish and Zionist identities by Israel, as well as the undue influence and control over American politics has a real possibility to foster actual antisemitism, which is not equal to the criticism of Israel and their dehumanization of the Palestinian people.
This post is loaded with conspiracy theories and classic antisemitic tropes disguised as political critique.
Israel has carefully crafted a system of propaganda to capture current and future leaders.
This plays into the old “Jews secretly control the world” myth. Many countries engage in lobbying, but only when it’s Israel do people frame it as sinister manipulation.
Undue influence over American politics by Israeli government and lobby groups…
Again, this is just a rebranded version of the antisemitic trope about Jewish power. If foreign influence in U.S. politics bothers you, why are you singling out Israel and ignoring countries like China, Saudi Arabia, or Russia?
Criticism of Israel is labeled antisemitic.
No, legitimate criticism of Israeli policies isn’t antisemitic. But spreading lies about Jewish control, comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, and using blood libel about “genocide” absolutely are.
The pendulum always swings back...
This sounds like a veiled threat that Jews will face repercussions because of Israel’s actions. That’s dangerously close to justifying antisemitism.
Antisemitism is being weaponized to justify genocide.
Antisemitism is rising globally, and your post is part of the reason why. Dismissing Jewish concerns as a “weapon” to silence criticism is gaslighting.
You claim to worry about rising antisemitism, but instead of calling out real antisemitism, you’re reinforcing it by spreading the same narratives that have fueled hatred against Jews for centuries.
why are you singling out Israel and ignoring countries like China, Saudi Arabia, or Russia?
Because there is legitimate criticism of those country's influence in the US. Do you really think the treatment of Russian interference in the political sphere is given the same leeway as Israeli interference?
But spreading lies about Jewish control, comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, and using blood libel about “genocide” absolutely are.
I compare Israeli to Nazi Germany because it is. Dehumanization, ethnic cleansing, brutalization of targeted minority groups, the list goes on. The Final Solution, was the final solution, the same restriction of rights of the Jewish people, taking of property, geographically restricting them is the same as what is happening to the Palestinian people. The antisemitism fostered by blaming the entire Jewish people and justification for the purges is exactly what we see with Israel in Palestine.
You claim to worry about rising antisemitism, but instead of calling out real antisemitism, you’re reinforcing it by spreading the same narratives that have fueled hatred against Jews for centuries.
I do call out real antisemitism, which is not the criticism of Israel's genocidal policies, or their targeted control of US political institutions. Do you call people calling out Russia or the CCP influence in US politics as being against people of Russian or Chinese decent? Why are you conflating the Israeli government apparatus and the methods they use with Jewish people?
Your response is just a string of tired talking points, completely detached from historical reality.
Do you really think the treatment of Russian interference in the political sphere is given the same leeway as Israeli interference?
The difference is that “Israeli interference” is a manufactured obsession driven by antisemitic conspiracy theories, whereas Russian interference involved actual hacking, election meddling, and intelligence operations. The fact that you equate the two exposes your bias.
I compare Israel to Nazi Germany because it is.
No, it isn’t, and the fact that you feel the need to repeat this nonsense shows how little you actually understand history. The Nazis systematically murdered six million Jews, along with millions of others, in death camps. Israel is not committing genocide—it’s fighting a war against Hamas, a terrorist group that openly calls for Jewish extermination. The comparison is not only wildly inaccurate, but it also trivializes the Holocaust. 2/3rds of Europe's Jewish population was murdered in an industrialized genocide—only now is the Jewish population reaching the level it was at pre-Holocaust. Meanwhile the Palestinian population has grown multiple times over, and less than 2% of the population of Gaza has died, and nearly half of the fatalities were militants.
The Final Solution, was the final solution, the same restriction of rights of the Jewish people, taking of property, geographically restricting them is the same as what is happening to the Palestinian people.
The Final Solution was a plan to exterminate Jews. Not relocate, not restrict—exterminate. Palestinians are not being systematically rounded up and executed in gas chambers. This false equivalence is disgusting and antisemitic. If you actually cared about Palestinian rights, you wouldn’t need to invoke Nazi Germany—you’d focus on real historical context instead of sensationalist propaganda.
I do call out real antisemitism, which is not the criticism of Israel's genocidal policies, or their targeted control of US political institutions.
You’re literally using two of the most classic antisemitic tropes here: the blood libel that Jews (or Israel) are committing “genocide” and the idea that Jews secretly “control” governments. If you think these narratives have nothing to do with antisemitism, you need to read a history book.
Do you call people calling out Russia or the CCP influence in US politics as being against people of Russian or Chinese descent?
No, because criticism of Russia and China doesn’t rely on centuries-old racist myths about secret control, global conspiracies, or bloodthirsty governments plotting genocide. Your entire framework for discussing Israel mirrors the exact rhetoric that has been used to justify antisemitic violence throughout history.
Your argument isn’t just misinformed—it’s willfully malicious. You’re using the language of anti-Zionism as a smokescreen for spreading deeply antisemitic tropes, and you’re either too ignorant to realize it or too dishonest to admit it.
You are just using the same line Zionists use. Jewish people suffered in the past, so they are exempt from any criticism of their actions, including ethnic cleansing and genocide. No they are not. The Russians suffered from historic European invasions in the past, so we shouldn't criticize their invasion of Ukraine? China was invaded by Europe, so we can't criticize plans of expansion?
We absolutely should acknowledged that and recognize what led to it and make sure it doesn't happen again to anyone. "Never Again" should mean never again for all peoples, not just "Never Again for Jewish people". Being a group that has suffered and has had antisemitic rhetoric used in the past doesn't give carte blanche.
Would you be fine with the carpet bombing, the dead children, the ethnic cleansing if it was the CCP doing it to the Uyghur or Taiwanese people? Would you be ok with Russia doing this in Ukraine or Georgia? Why are you ok with it when Israel does it? Some people worth more than others?
Israel has been getting attacked for decades by the Palestinians. Israel has offered numerous two state solutions to the Palestinians, that they have refused, because they don't want their own state—they want to destroy Israel.
They've willingly sacrificed their lives and their children's futures in this futile attempt to destroy the world's one Jewish state—a state that holds nearly all of the Jews ethnically cleansed from the Middle East, after over a thousand years of those Arab majorities persecuting them, treating them as second class citizens legally, stealing their holiest sites, and occasionally massacring them.
I have not said you cannot criticize Israel for specific policies or actions. However, you are repeatedly engaging in outright antisemitic rhetoric about Jews controlling America, engaging in Holocaust reversal against Jews when it's laughably inaccurate, and making blood libel claims that are woefully ignorant and misinformed.
At the end of the day, you're yet another antisemite who thinks he's on the right side of history.
You're throwing around terms like "occupation" and "apartheid" without understanding history.
Before 1967, the West Bank was controlled by Jordan, and Gaza was controlled by Egypt after they both invaded in 1948—neither allowed an independent Palestinian state. Israel took these areas in a defensive war after being attacked, and since Jordan's prior claim to the West Bank was never internationally recognized, the land became disputed rather than legally occupied. In 1988, Jordan officially renounced its claim to the West Bank, leaving no prior sovereign to whom the land could be "returned," which is why international law classifies it as disputed rather than occupied in the traditional sense. The situation is far more complex than the simplistic slogans you're repeating.
In 2000, Israel offered the Palestinians a state on nearly all of Gaza and the West Bank, with East Jerusalem as its capital. Arafat walked away without a counteroffer and launched the Second Intifada instead. That’s not the action of someone seeking peace.
As for AIPAC, it’s a lobbying group like many others—singling it out as some sinister controlling force is veering into conspiracy nonsense. If you want to have a real conversation, drop the conspiratorial nonsense and engage with reality.
If you’re going to deny the unlawful occupation, in accordance to the ruling of the ICJ, you have to do better than claiming prior to 1967 the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian control and the West Bank was under Jordanian control. Neither countries annexed these territories. And in 1988, Jordan formally relinquished its claim to the West Bank in favor of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), not Israel. And non of that negates the fact that the stipulations of international law are rather unambiguous, the West Bank and Gaza are under an illegal Israeli occupation. That’s not my slogan. It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. 147 countries recognize the Palestinian state with those borders. The entire world agrees. These aren’t “disputed lands”. The legal status of those territories is occupied territories. Asking people to ignore international law to listen to random Zionists is a preposterous suggestion.
What was actually offered the Palestinians in 2022;
the Temple Mount (including Al-Aqsa) would remain under Israeli sovereignty. Israel would also take most of the rest of East Jerusalem, while Palestinians would get some parts too. Israel would annex 8% or 13.5% of the West Bank, and would maintain a military of an additional 6–12% of the West Bank for an unspecified period of time ;sometimes called a “long term lease”
So stop with this unrelenting nonsense about the so-called countless peace offers made which don’t even adhere to the stipulations of international law! I’ve never seen people normalize lies as much as Zionists. It’s like plague.
The definitely have outsized influence with the imperial powers.
The difference between Israel and Nazi Germany is that we fought the Germans. In this case our government is unflinchingly supporting and enabling the Israeli genocide.
Maybe in 80 years once every Palestinian is dead or expelled the Israelis will become tree huggers like the Germans. But I doubt it
Isn’t it amazing that Hamas is the only entity on earth that after an attack, knows the exact age, gender and identify of every victim of the attack. The rest of the world takes weeks, months and sometimes years to get it correct but Hamas knows within minutes. Astounding.
There are no people on earth more equipped to handle mass civilian death tolls via bombings than the Palestinians of Gaza.
Also the Gazan health ministry was trained by the US and other western countries to be very accurate when counting bodies. Of course, that’s when there are bodies left and not just bags of human meat.
Completely ignores Ukraine, Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan which had magnitudes greater amounts of civilian casualties. Literally every recent conflict on earth has had multiple times more casualties than in Gaza.
What do you expect when the Arabs in the region have been attempting to genocide the neighboring Jewish population for literally hundreds of years (and they were actually successful on 10/7) all the way back to the 1500s.
Not that hard for a hospital who imminently receives dead bodies from an attack to identify them. No shit they can get it done faster than other world agencies who aren't directly receiving the dead bodies.
It tends to be estimates. You know relatively how many people are in a building. If said building is flattened they assume then that those number of people are dead. It's not that difficult in a small centralized area like Gaza. This case you are whining about is a doctor receiving dead bodies which is then by default easy to count.
It is likely that the death count is far higher as estimates are off and there are likely thousands more buried in the rubble of what is left of Gaza.
Maybe in other cases, I don't know. But you were referring to a specific hospital reporting a specific number of bodies they received and identifying their demographic.
That reminds me of that hospital supporters of Hamas refuse to speak of when Ministry of Health (well, technically it's Hamas anyway) shortly after the attack (which was practically their own doing) already finished the counting and claimed 500 people died there.
Hamas is known to overblown the numbers of victims, labelling terrorist as civilians and basically exaggerating everything.
Unfortunately, there's no way to confirm anything.
I’m amazed at your reading comprehension. Nowhere does it says Hamas. It says “The European Hospital in the southern city of Rafah said it received 36 bodies…”
Hey, everyone who has been killed in this conflict on the Palestinian side was wearing the hamas battle uniform, so they were legitimate targets under the rules of war.
I like how the pro-Hamas crowd is discovering for the very first time that if you start a war with another country and then refuse to surrender, you don't get to stop the war by crying "No fair, you have to stop now because we said so!"
I always find it funny how folks will give Israel or the Russians a childish nickname to demean them, but the Nazis are still Nazi Germany. Strange double standard.
On Oct 06, 2023, Israel was in an offensive position and in violation of the 1967 Oslo accords. The people at the Nova rave were also there illegally according to international law. I don’t think they “deserved” what happened to them. But if Israel says that Hamas is everywhere, even under bakeries and hospitals. Then maybe don’t make yourself an illegal immigrant in a land your government tells you is dangerous? Because no one here needs to be convinced that Nazis were bad.
However, ppl still need to be convinced that headshotting women sheltering in a church, bombing refugee camps, breaking medical equipment in hospital raids, and stealing women’s underwear is a bad thing.
You’re right. Hamas and those who fought Nazi Germany are not equal…
Hamas is much more justified and moral. The people who fought Nazi germany didn’t gaf about nazism and racism, they only struck when Nazi Germany got too confident and thought it could take over Europe
Palestinians have repeatedly been the instigator of violence, waging an endless campaign to destroy Israel in the misguided idea that throwing their lives and children’s futures away will eventually lead to Israel’s destruction.
They have never once demonstrated a commitment to peace, and they will continue to destroy their own lives due to their obsession with destroying Israel.
Hike your knuckle dragging ass back to Europe. Leave Palestinians alone. If you don’t want to do that, you have no right to bitch or cry about how they choose to react to being ethnically cleansed
The vast majority of Jews in Israel never lived in Europe. Most Jews in Israel are descended from the nearly 1 million Jews who were ethnically cleansed from the Middle Eastern states, who had lived there continuously for thousands of years, and under Muslim rule, were treated legally as second class citizens who were regularly humiliated, degraded, and could be massacred without recourse.
And as for the so-called European Jews, they're actually originally from Israel, from which they were expelled by colonizers.
Hamas attacks civilians, yes, in response to massive attacks on civilians by Israel, ongoing for decades.
For instance, the attack of October 7th killed about 1200 Israelis. The attacks which Israel launched in 2008/9 killed about the same amount of Palestinians in Gaza. And that was considered a small war.
Well, first of all, I didn't say 500 are khamas, I said 500 are hamas, Second of all, last time i remembered there are more than 500 Palestinians in the Gaza strip, thus implying that- I didn't say all Palestinians were Hamas
I didn't say every dead Palestinian was Hamas. Now my english isn't the greatest, but can you read English? The person above said that the same amount of Gazans died in the Gaza War as oct 7, about 500 which was Hamas. Now if you know math, you know that 500 does not equal 1,200; 500 is a less number than 500, in fact 500 is a little less than half of 1,200
I don't know about the jews in the Warsaw ghetto specifically, but various anti nazi resistance groups did in fact often kill civilians, both intentionally and unintentionally, through indiscriminate acts of terror, hostage takings, and summary executions of suspected collaborators. Also, the rhetoric used by zionists to justify their atrocities is strikingly similar to nazi propaganda. The comparison is fair.
But that’s the thing it wasn’t compared to those other comparisons. It was compared to the Warsaw uprising. Where Jews only killed about a dozen nazi guards.
I don’t remember Jews in the Warsaw ghetto having access to phones, cars, being one of the largest recipients of humanitarian aid, having rockets, guns, machine guns, foreign fundings, military wings, being able to fly to Qatar,
I don’t remember Jews entering Germany and raping and killing German civilians
What you meant to say is “might is right”. Because Israel is able to beat its neighbours, it can, and face no consequences when it does so. Like with the Nakba or the 6 day war. Instead they put together a narrative that they were the victims and they were just defending themselves against the Arabs who wanted to destroy them. All of that is a fiction. But somehow Zionists convinced much of the world that it’s what happened.
The Arab league intervened in Palestine after the British mandate ended and there was no government to stop Zionists from continuing to ethnically cleanse Arab villages. By May 15, 1948, Zionists had already depopulated and destroyed over 200 villages.
The Arab League communicated their intent to the UN. And their actions support this, they primarily positioned forces in the areas that were assigned to the Arabs by the UN partition plan and sent other forces to stop Zionists from further ethnic cleansing.
Meanwhile, most of that conflict the Arabs were on the defensive and Zionists refused attempts at peace negotiations because they knew they could take more territory. It’s one of the reasons Lehi assassinated Count Bernadotte, who was the assigned UN mediator whose position was established May 14, 1948, as per UNGA resolution 186 (s-2).
Also on May 14, 1948, Zionists met in secret to declare their independence, which would take effect at midnight. However, just as sovereign citizens don’t have their own country just because they declare it, Israel was not a country until it was widely recognized by the international community. The US and UN didn’t give Israel full recognition until 1949.
Like I said, it’s all a fiction, Israel is the victim, the Arabs were going to commit genocide. Lies are ok if it’s to support the Zionist cause, right?
They intervened. And attacked Zionist forces to stop them from ethnically cleansing Palestinians, which they didn’t do a good job of stopping.
If not for the intervention of the Arab League, Zionists would have ethnically cleansed and occupied all of Palestine. Yigal Allon, one of the leaders of the Palmach, admitted this:
If it wasn’t for the Arab invasion there would have been no stop to the expansion of the forces of Haganah who could have, with the same drive, reached the natural borders of western Israel.
A war was already raging, although it appears it was more of a massacre than a war. The Arab league would have intervened earlier, but that would have entered the grey area of declaring war on Britain as the mandate was still active.
It’s like claiming the US started WW2 because they entered mid conflict. Germany never attacked the US. The US entered the war against Germany in support of its allies. Which is exactly what the Arab League did.
You sure love coming up with excuses to justify Arab violence.
No excuses are needed to justify Arab violence when that Arab violence amounts to intervening in a conflict where one side is ethnically cleansing the other.
mass violence is always very righteous and justified when YOU do it.
This is literally the standard view of Zionists for just about every conflict Israel is in. Unless they choose to deny involvement because it can’t be justified, like the Qibya massacre.
No excuses are needed to justify Arab violence when that Arab violence amounts to intervening in a conflict where one side is ethnically cleansing the other.
"Arab violence good. Arab violence righteous. The master race can do no wrong."
If you don't understand the situation, don't comment. "Refusal to surrender" doesn't even apply here.
Israel and Hamas both agreed to a ceasfire plan to slowly de-escalate. Phase 2 would have involved Israel withdrawing all troops from Gaza before another hostage/prisoner exchange.
Israel changed their minds and demanded more, and Hamas refused. Israel decided to commit a terrorist attack on civilians in response.
Peace was in sight... the Israeli hostages could've been released, Gaza could have been de-occupied, and the tortured Palestinian "prisoners" held without charge could've been released.
There's really nothing to "negotiate" other than to appease the US administration and domestic audiences. With the power dynamics they are (more extreme than when the Allies fought the Axis in 1944), the terms are "surrender or die".
Peace was in sight... the Israeli hostages could've been released, Gaza could have been de-occupied, and the tortured Palestinian "prisoners" held without charge could've been released.
Indeed, but that would require Israel to sign a ceasefire, which would imply that they "lost" the war. They can't accept that.
I'm not sure I agree that Hamas giving in to Israel's new demands would have ended the war. Israel offered a ceasfire extension and to "negotiate lasting peace". If Hamas loses their hostage leverage, this negotiation probably would not go very well. Even if outright war ends and Hamas submits, we would be in the exact same situation as before: Israel occupying, committing human rights abuses, and settling Gaza.
Who's to say violent resistance wouldn't spring up again? Even if it didn't, it would still clearly be a morally abhorrent situation.
But even granting that "Hamas's refusal continued the war", you can attribute the exact same symmetrical responsibility to Israel who reneged on the existing ceasfire deal and played hardball themselves. In fact, I have no doubt they never even expected Hamas to agree to the new terms and already planned to commit this attack.
If Israel wanted their hostages, they would have kept to the plan. They're clearly after something else, and it isn't the annihilation of Hamas: why target civilians?
Seeing your comment history, you always act like this... tons of activity, too. Honestly intellectually pathetic to spend your time spreading propaganda everywhere without trying to even engage in real discussions.
You're not engaging with the reality that Palestinians still refuse to accept a ceasefire because that reality does not fit your "Palestinians just want peace" narrative.
Every single person here is missing a key point about why the war restarted.
The Israeli government is expected to vote next week on a budget, and the vote would've failed since Ben gvir left the government. The vote failing would mean the government collapses and Israel goes to elections, and Bibi wants to avoid this so he can keep his seat.
He knew that if he went back to war, Ben gvir would rejoin the coalition and vote for the budget, thus securing the existence of the government for a few more years.
That's the sole reason the war restarted, so Bibi doesn't have to leave his seat and he can retain power.
He's a scumbag, but no this isn't about Israel just wanting to kill people, it's about politics.
Israelis are actually happy they get to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. If they were, they wouldn’t have started this extermination campaign in the first place.
Which is worse tbh? Imagine being this selfish as a person that you’d rather have thousands upon thousands of people die just to stay in power and not lose your job. And it’s not like he’ll be living on social welfare if he loses it.
Does it really? You can want to do something for multiple reasons, this doesn't simply erase all the genocidal statements by members of Israel's government. If anything it adds another motivation to do this shit, it doesn't refute genocidal intent
Genocide requires intent.
He doesn't intend to kill anyone, he intends to stay in power.
It Inherently refutes genocidal intent, by the fact that the intent here is 100% political.
He’s carpet bombing Gaza to get a politician back on side that is openly expressing genocidal intent - Ben Gvir. So it’s obviously genocidal killing. The genocide is the whole point.
I’m not sure you know what carpet bombing actually is.
Piffle.
And if the point is politics, and not killing, it’s inherently not genocidal, per definition of genocide (which requires intent)
I don’t realise that mass murdering tens of thousands or more was ok if it’s politically driven! Nazis everywhere rejoice! B ‘cause it means the Holocaust was ok!
It doesn't refute any of the previously genocidal statements by members of the Knesset nor is Israel going soft on its current attacks (In fact they're going harder than ever). This doesn't disprove anything, it adds another motivation. Not only does he get to either ethnically cleanse the land/genocide Palestinians and continue Israel's colonial settler ambitions, he also gets to hold power and avoid being tossed in jail
So your best defense against the genocide accusations is that Netanyahu didnt twirl his moustache around like a supervillain before announcing the final solution to the Palestinian problem into a megaphone.
I find these debates about intent to be utterly asinine and absurd, they don't fucking mean anything, I don't need the ICJ to give a verdict in 10 years after every Palestinian and Gaza is dead or buried, that a genocide did or did not occur WHEN WE HAVE EYEBALLS
Hes still going to court, but the government collapsing would make him lose his power, and would guarantee his eventual arrest. He wants to avoid this at all costs.
Today ABC news reports that Israel dropped leaflets in Gaza saying:
Following an announcement from the Israel Defense Forces that it had "focused ground operations" in the "center of the Gaza Strip," occupation forces dropped leaflets in Gaza overnight on Wednesday telling civilians "the world map will not change if all the people of Gaza vanish."
The harrowing message implored Gazans to leave "before the implementation of Trump’s forced plan—which will impose your forced displacement whether you like it or not."
The message continued, "We have decided to make a final appeal to those who wish to receive aid in exchange for cooperating with us. We will not hesitate for a moment to help."
Otherwise, it suggested, "No one will feel for you, and no one will ask about you. You are left alone to face your inevitable fate."
"Neither US nor Europe cares about Gaza," it stated, before concluding, "The game is almost over, and only a little remains. Whoever wants to save themselves before it’s too late, we are here to stay until Judgment Day."
It's clear enough that what is happening is not a simple massacre of civilians; people are used to that, and will not mind very much. I think Israel has grown tired of the Palestinian Problem, and in Trump's support of ethnic cleansing have found their much longed after enabler. Except that plan will not work, because Egypt and Jordan will never accept. So we will have Israel occupying the West Bank and Gaza, building as many settlements as they like; Palestinians live there, and yet cannot be given citizenship in order to maintain Jewish majority. But Israel cannot build settlements while these pesky Palestinians live, so what is the answer? Hint: It begins with a G.
Personally I hope they try to forcibly relocate the Palestinians to Egypt and Jordan. There is a larger chance of the Arab states interfering then. If Israel turns to genocide I don't think the leaders of any Arab country will care.
I wonder how the Americans will react if Israel's answer is genocide. Assuming that Trump doesn't turn their country into shambles, then I think they will be speaking about it a little regretfully, with the bipartisan response perhaps being: Too bad what happened to the poor Palestinians, but Israel has the right to defend itself.
Personally I hope they try to forcibly relocate the Palestinians to Egypt and Jordan.
They have no ability to do this. Forced displacement is an empty threat due to lack of receiving countries, but they are using the fact that the US POTUS supports it to place intense psychological pressure on the civilians.
What is credible is that Israel can be more permissive in use of force than they were under Biden.
Be interesting to see the calculations that went into these flyers. The whole cost of IHL violations around threats of collecting punishment is probably seen as roughly zero at this point. I can only assume the military decided this is more likely to break the population's will in supporting militant groups than further cause them to join up.
Hamas didn’t commit to anything either. They were just willing to enjoy a prolonged period of Israel not attacking without any clear intent of returning hostages. Israel, in good faith allowed negotiations to play out, and Hamas didn’t accept the terms. Now Gaza is going to turn to rubble.
It’s not a breach, it was over already.
Absolute blatant lies. The deal was to be down In multiple phase so the hostages would be returned and Israel stopped the killing. Israel refused the hostage by breaking the deal and begin its genocidal campaign.
DEIR-AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli strikes killed at least 58 Palestinians across the Gaza Strip overnight and into Thursday, according to three hospitals. The strikes hit multiple homes in the middle of the night, killing men, women and children as they slept.
Hours later, the Israeli military restored a blockade on northern Gaza, including Gaza City, that it had maintained for most of the war. It warned residents against using the main highway to enter or leave the north and said only passage to the south would be allowed on the coastal road.
Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians returned to what remains of their homes in the north after a ceasefire took hold in January. Israel resumed heavy strikes across Gaza on Tuesday, shattering the truce that had facilitated the release of more than two dozen hostages. Israel blamed the renewed fighting on Hamas because the militant group rejected a new proposal that departed from their signed agreement.
The Trump administration, which took credit for helping to broker the ceasefire, has voiced full support for Israel. More than 400 Palestinians were killed on Tuesday alone, mostly women and children, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry.
There have been no reports of Hamas firing rockets or carrying out other attacks.
The Israeli military said it intercepted a missile launched by Yemen’s Iran-backed Houthi rebels early Thursday before it reached Israeli airspace, as air raid sirens and exploding interceptors were heard in Jerusalem. No injuries were reported. It was the second such attack since the United States began a new campaign of airstrikes against the rebels earlier this week.
One of the strikes on Gaza early Thursday hit the Abu Daqa family’s home in Abasan al-Kabira, a village just outside of Khan Younis near the border with Israel. It was inside an area the Israeli military ordered evacuated earlier this week, encompassing most of eastern Gaza.
The strike killed at least 16 people, mostly women and children, according to the nearby European Hospital, which received the dead. Those killed included a father and his seven children, as well as the parents and brother of a month-old baby who survived along with her grandparents.
“Another tough night,” said Hani Awad, who was helping rescuers search for more survivors in the rubble. “The house collapsed over the people’s heads.”
There was no immediate comment from the Israeli military on the latest strikes. The military says it only targets militants and blames civilian deaths on Hamas because it is deeply embedded in residential areas.
Israeli ground troops advance
On Wednesday, Israeli ground troops advanced in Gaza for the first time since the ceasefire took hold in January, seizing part of a corridor separating the northern third of the territory from the south. The announcement about passage to the south indicated troops will soon retake full control over what is known as the Netzarim corridor, stretching from the border to the Mediterranean Sea.
Israel, which has also cut off the supply of food, fuel and humanitarian aid to Gaza’s roughly 2 million Palestinians, has vowed to intensify its operations until Hamas releases the 59 hostages it holds — 35 of whom are believed dead — and gives up control of the territory. The Trump administration, which took credit for brokering the ceasefire, says it fully supports Israel.
Hamas has said it will only release the remaining hostages in exchange for a lasting ceasefire and a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, as called for in the ceasefire agreement they reached in January after more than a year of mediation by the United States, Egypt and Qatar.
Hamas, which does not accept Israel’s existence, says it is willing to hand over power to the Western-backed Palestinian Authority or a committee of political independents but will not lay down its arms until Israel ends its decades-long occupation of lands the Palestinians want for a future state.
A ‘bloody night’ for hard-hit northern town
The European Hospital in the southern city of Rafah said it received 36 bodies after the overnight strikes, mostly women and children. The Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis received seven and transferred four to European, which were included in its count. In northern Gaza, the Indonesian Hospital said it had received 19 bodies after strikes in the town of Beit Lahiya near the border.
“It was a bloody night for the people of Beit Lahiya,” said Fares Awad, head of the Health Ministry’s emergency service in northern Gaza, adding that rescuers were still searching the rubble from homes that were hit. “The situation is catastrophic.”
Beit Lahiya was heavily destroyed and largely depopulated during the first phase of the war before January’s ceasefire. On Wednesday, an Israeli strike on a gathering of mourners killed 17 people there, according to health officials.
No end in sight to the 17-month war
The war began when Hamas-led militants stormed into southern Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, killing some 1,200 people and taking 251 hostage. Most of the hostages have been freed in ceasefire agreements or other deals. Israeli forces have rescued eight living hostages and recovered the bodies of dozens more.
Israel’s retaliatory offensive, among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history, has killed nearly 49,000 Palestinians, according to the Gaza Health Ministry. It does not say how many were militants, but says more than half of those killed were women and children. Israel says it has killed around 20,000 militants, without providing evidence.
The war at its height displaced around 90% of Gaza’s population and has caused vast destruction across the territory. Hundreds of thousands of people returned to their homes during the ceasefire, but many found only fields of rubble and the bombed-out shells of buildings.
RTÉ (Center): "At least 37 killed in latest Gaza strikes - authorities"
読売新聞オンライン (Leans Right): "Israeli Strikes Across Gaza Hit Homes and Kill at Least 40, According to Hospitals"
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cap123abc@reddit (OP)
“The European Hospital in the southern city of Rafah said it received 36 bodies after the overnight strikes, mostly women and children.”
How long must we watch these atrocities occur? Will there ever be any accountability? Just horrible.
GarethSanchez@reddit
It’s over when the hostages return and Hamas surrenders. We have been saying this for 18 months
wewew47@reddit
The hostage families have condemned israels ceasefire breach, saying sticking to the ceasefire and progressing to phase 2 was the best way to free the hostages.
Nice to know you don't care about what the actual hostages and their families think
GarethSanchez@reddit
What kind of moronic mental gymnastics is this? If they just returned all of the hostages in one fell swoop there would be no need for a multi-phase ceasefire deal
Also it’s not a “breach”. The ceasefire phase 1 was over and no second phase was in place. Hamas had their chance to accept a proposal and did not.
wewew47@reddit
Why would hamas free them all when Israel is refusing to withdraw?
There is, because Israel said they would keep fighting even after the hostages are freed, so there's no incentive for hamas to free the hostages unless Israel withdraws.
Frame your question the other way - if Israel just withdrew from gaza there would be no need for a multiphase ceasefire deal and all the hostages would be returned.
Interesting framing. Israel had a chance to continue the ceasefire into phase 2 and refused to do so despite hamas committing to it.
It is. The first phase ended but the ceasefire generally held beyond that period anyway.
GarethSanchez@reddit
Again the mental gymnastics are crazy. If we reframe the question and expect Israel to withdraw on Hamas’s terms it sort of ignores the fact that Hamas took random innocents as hostages in the first place as an act of barbaric violent terror.
Hamas didn’t commit to anything either. They were just willing to enjoy a prolonged period of Israel not attacking without any clear intent of returning hostages. Israel, in good faith allowed negotiations to play out, and Hamas didn’t accept the terms. Now Gaza is going to turn to rubble.
It’s not a breach, it was over already.
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Defending a genocidal "state" that thinks its ok to secretly sterilize black Israelis just because they are black until very recently, while then enforce apartheid as recognized by the country for who the word was invented... is wild.
GarethSanchez@reddit
Genocidal is a very very extreme and untrue term but keep saying it until you believe it’s true
As for the forced sterilization, I’m not happy that happened either. But don’t weaponize it, as if there aren’t thousands of Ethiopians who migrated to Israel to escape antisemitism related persecution and live happily there now. There’s racism in every country, now Israel recognizes Ethiopian Jewish holidays and state holidays and they’ve always had equal rights as every other citizen.
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Its the tip of the iceberg, there is strong evidence they are stealing organs from Palestinians without consent. Their organ banks are overflowing in a way no country in the world has. Refusing to release the bodies of prisoners that died mysteriously having never been charged with anything. Their politicians openly debate that its ok to rape Palestinians.
There are interviews with ex IOF soldiers talking about how they are trained by raiding intentionally homes that they know don't have anyone guilty in them, because otherwise it would interfere with an existing investigation. Dragging children out of bed in the middle of the night at gun point, then kidnapping one at random before releasing them miles away in the middle of nowhere.
Heck the shot and killed hostages trying to get help from soldiers standing with their arms in the air, no shirts on, in broad daylight, calling to them in their language for help. They mowed them down.
There are so many cases of them intentionally attacking known civilians, its insane. Like Doctors Without Borders, had a building far from anything else, that had been coordinated with the IOF, they lit it up with MG from a tank.
They have been found to lie constantly, while preventing any 3rd party sources from documenting or investigating anything.
GarethSanchez@reddit
You lost me at “stealing organs” the conspiracy theories are crazy 😂
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
here is a commander saying you should intentionally target civilians https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/1jrh4jx/the_commander_of_the_israeli_golani/
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Because my beleifs are actually based in reality, and not whatever narrative you follow. I can back up my claims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Aftonbladet_Israel_controversy
THEY LITERALLY ADMITTED TO DOING IT
but no its "a conspiracy" give me a damn break
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
You’re not convincing him. You’re giving him fuel to jerk off 🤮
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
pretty much, they all parade around and pretend that their view is supported by reason and fact... but its just a faux veneer.
GarethSanchez@reddit
We just go with what’s true, not what Al Jazeera wants you to believe lmao
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
....hmmm why so quiet now?
GarethSanchez@reddit
Might come as a surprise but I have a job
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
You go on reddit while on the clock? Never understood people that do this.
GarethSanchez@reddit
If you’re in the US and have had the ability to respond all day I’m assuming you don’t have a clock at all.
Should probably get on that
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Private equity firm is destroying the company I worked for. I was laid off when we didn't make record profits and only the same amount of record profits as last year because they over invested in trying to make more future money. Instead of focusing on maintaining the already amazing profits in a market sector we dominated and there is only so much growing we can do. So yeah, because I got hired from one position into the hardest dept in the company to get a job in, and was thus the newest hire in the department, when they downsized the already too small dept, the earliest hires were the ones let go.
GarethSanchez@reddit
Yep public companies going PE is just a death sentence to any business. I had a job offer that told me they were about to be bought out by Blackrock and I NOPED out of that interview as fast as I could.
Best of luck to you. The market is super tough right now
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Thank you, and I sincerely hope you question your view on whats happening in Palestine. I easily was able to disprove something you said was a conspiracy. I have zero ill will towards the Jewish people.
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Aftonbladet_Israel_controversy
Like Israel literally admitting they did it?
GarethSanchez@reddit
Yeah Wikipedia’s is reliable. The Israel wiki page and related ones have been edited 30,000 times with libelous bullshit the last 18 months
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
“Might makes right” until they actually have to fucking fight for it.
They’re demand respect from my black ass while doing the same exact things Europeans do across the planet and then call me a Nazi when I flinch. Like 🤷🏿♂️
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
But if you're white its ok. I'll freely admit I've had to educate myself to "see more color", BLM really got me to put in the work and start to see just how fucked up things are, how subtle and deep the racism runs.
What I find interesting, is the clear ties between someone reddit all agrees to hate "Musk", and racist authoritarian parties like the AfD where he guest spoke, that are allied with.... Netanyahu's party (the only non European one in the coalition).
But their cognitive dissonance prevents them from seeing the links.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
i'll give you this. Whenever the victims of colonialism fight back, who actually pays for it? Not the kings, not the presidents, not the rich. It's the common white folk that were plopped in front of them like human shields.
They conscripted hundreds, thousands of little white boys that might remind you of your brother or son to fight against Zimbabweans in their desperate charade to preserve "Rhodesia" and they all died. Nobody seemed to gaf about them. So it's beyond me why any average white guy would support this sort of nazi, white supremacy stuff when they don't even care enough about them to protect them
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
You might be surprised how far I know about all this. My grandfather was a French Legionnaire leading local populations that joined. My mother was born in Vietnam, and also lived in Algeria until the French got kicked out, and she was thrown on a plane in the middle of the night.
But what came of her experience? Well she became a professor focused heavily on French colonialism and the damage its done. She's even written books on france's involvement in the slave trade triangle, during the French "enlightenment period" ....enlightened my ass, profiting off slavery.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
The French: “We will rise against the upper class!
Black Haitians: “Cool, does this mean you’ll free us now?”
French: “Lol nope”
Haitians: “You already murdered all the native Haitians! We’re only here to satisfy your bloodlust! We refuse to be next! we will defend ourselves”
French: “Help! White genocide!”
Green_Space729@reddit
Hamas didn’t commit to anything either. They were just willing to enjoy a prolonged period of Israel not attacking without any clear intent of returning hostages. Israel, in good faith allowed negotiations to play out, and Hamas didn’t accept the terms. Now Gaza is going to turn to rubble.
It’s not a breach, it was over already.
Absolute blatant lies. The deal was to be down In multiple phase so the hostages would be returned and Israel stopped the killing. Israel refused the hostage by breaking the deal and begin its genocidal campaign.
https://youtu.be/ede80cWlf8c?si=Qhlu7HI0XnLQ0kfj
GarethSanchez@reddit
Thanks for the video of the dork with the word document but nothing after phase one was ever agreed to.
There were still details to iron out, the guy in the video himself said it. Those details weren’t ironed out, so it’s back to war. Plain and simple.
wewew47@reddit
Or if we reframe that and expect hamas to release all the hostages on israels terms it sort of ignores the fact that Israel has continually occupied palestinian land in an apartheid regime for nearly a century and is actively colonising more every year in acts of barbaric horror supported by most israelis who repeatedly vote for genocidal governments.
They explicitly committed to this ceasefire ans the progression to phase 2.
Again, you're ignoring the wishes of the hostages themselves and their families who condemned israels reignition of the war. They said the best way to get the remaining hostages back is phase 2.
GarethSanchez@reddit
Apartheid, occupation blah blah blah none of this is true. Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians as an act of peace. And it was a failed experiment. Within 3 years Hamas and PIJ ran the place ragged and started committing acts of terror in Israel.
In Israel proper, a sovereign nation, there genuinely no apartheid. Everyone lives the same.
If you want to talk about occupation and “apartheid” in the West Bank, that’s different. But y’all like to conflate Israel proper and the West Bank to prove your wet noodle narrative.
Again, there was no commitment to a phase two, because it was never agreed to. Not even in principle. If there was agreement, there would have been a plan in place, and it would be happening right now.
wewew47@reddit
The ICJ literally ruled israel is violating the international law prohibiting racial segregation and Apartheid. Nice defense of some of the worst crimes against humanity possible.
You and all those defending this deserve to face a modern day Nuremberg
GarethSanchez@reddit
The ICJ is a kangaroo court. We will happily go up to the stand and defend our case. We would win.
Similar to how the ICC gave the plaintiffs a year to prove genocide and they asked for an extension because they couldn’t beyond a reasonable doubt, so Ireland requested that the goal posts be moved to change the definition of genocide.
It’s better to just ignore these international organizations. There is clear bias whether the ICC, ICJ, or more egregiously the UN where Israel has had more condemnations than China, Russia, and North Korea combined and Iran is at the helm of the human rights committee (LMAO)
Conscious-Abalone-86@reddit
No moronic mental gymnastics involved in Israel being justified in keeping way more hostages while committing a genocide using the same reason?
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Phase 2 of the ceasefire would have seen all hostages returned home. But Israel has decided the destruction of Gaza is priority. Not the hostages.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
...in exchange for Hamas being allowed to remain in power in Gaza, which is obviously unacceptable.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Exactly. The hostages are not the priority.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
And Palestine obviously doesn't prioritize ending the war, because if they did, they would agree to Hamas leaving power.
catador_de_potos@reddit
And the goalpost is shifted once again
NoHetro@reddit
He literally said it in the first comment, what are you on about:
catador_de_potos@reddit
You're delusional if you think Israel will not stop until every single Palestinian is dead, Hamas or not, hostages or not.
NoHetro@reddit
Really? you say that while Hamas has literally stated since their inception that their one goal is to kill all Jews in Israel?
Meanwhile 20% of proper Israeli citizens are Muslim Arabs, can you look up the percentage of Jews in other Arab countries?
Fact is, actions speak louder than words, Israel so far seems to have only ever done retaliatory attacks, meanwhile it's getting constant attacks from all it's surrounding neighboring countries, it just seems crazy to me that you looking at this from the outside would side against them.
catador_de_potos@reddit
Precisely
And louder than lies, too
NoHetro@reddit
ok now tell me what has the arabs done.
catador_de_potos@reddit
Nothing that would justify a genocide
NoHetro@reddit
that's not what i asked.
catador_de_potos@reddit
If you want an answer that would justify whatever the fuck Israel is doing on Palestine, then you're asking to the wrong guy. I won't play your game.
The fact that you think there's an answer to begin with tells me everything I need to know about you, tho.
NoHetro@reddit
The fact that you refuse to even recognize any wrongdoings from the other side says enough, you only see this conflict as black and white, the arabs are innocent and oppressed that did literally nothing wrong, and the "zionists" are some monstrous inhumane beings that we can never understand, people like you are the reason peace is not here yet.
catador_de_potos@reddit
That's your response to "you can't justify a genocide"?..
I didn't
NoHetro@reddit
nope, you're just avoiding the question again, because that's all you can do to not have any self reflection.
catador_de_potos@reddit
Man fuck off. There's no answer that would justify a genocide, and we're denouncing a genocide. I won't sit here to play your game and blatant attempt at deflecting the affirmation that Israel is an illegitimate and genocidal ethnostate.
You keep talking if you want. After all, these comments are public and you're just burying yourself under your own bullshit.
NoHetro@reddit
Man you really love to throw out that G word so much people have become numb to it, and you're still avoiding answering my question,
How about this; lets assume the power dynamic was flipped, how many Jews do you think would be left in the area? just a simple thought experiment, be honest with yourself, we have historical precedence and statement from the Arabs on what they want to do, but i want to see what you think would happen?
catador_de_potos@reddit
Man fuck off
NoHetro@reddit
lol, literally anything but facing reality, just keep dancing around it.
catador_de_potos@reddit
Es muy temprano pa andar de proyectado
NoHetro@reddit
El que madruga, Dios lo ayuda.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
It's not my fault that Palestinians prioritize supporting Hamas over protecting their own children.
catador_de_potos@reddit
Think realistically for a second here. Do you actually think that the people of Palestine will be willing to bear down their arms after witnessing Israel yet again breaking the cease fire by carpet bombing their city and killing hundreds of civilians?
Even if Hamas disappeared overnight, Israel has proven that they're not to be trusted. What they're doing will only radicalize more people against them and the bloodbath will continue.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
That's up to them. But if Palestine chooses to continue the war instead of accepting a ceasefire, then Palestine will suffer the consequences of that choice.
Their fate is in their own hands.
Zoetekauw@reddit
So disingenuous.
It is Israel who has proven once and again that they will continue to build settlements in the West Bank, and treat Gaza like a concentration camp with periodic "mowing the lawn" bombings, regardless of what the Palestinians do. They have done this since long before October 7th. Israel is the relentless aggressor, and October 7th was a desperate flail in defiance of that endless encroachment. Israel has shown now signs of letting up, so holding onto the only leverage Palestine has — the hostages — is the only prudent choice.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Yeah, totally just an act of "resistance against oppression".
Nothing to see here, move along.
Zoetekauw@reddit
Thanks for confirming that you are clueless about the history, and can't be bothered to look deeper than Arabs bad.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Very telling how you're intentionally trying to conflate "raping and slaughtering civilians bad" with "Arabs bad".
It's a pretty racist thing to try and conflate if you ask me.
Zoetekauw@reddit
I'm not doing that at all.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Well good, I'm glad we agree that opposition to the barbaric actions of Palestine should never be conflated with anti-Arab racism or Islamophobia.
Zoetekauw@reddit
Way to keep your head in the sand.
TheOtherwise_Flow@reddit
Can you guys just admit that you support the genocide at this point? Your country is full on fascist at this point and supporting this. You guys don’t want peace and wouldn’t care if every single Palestinian dies.
Always moving the goals and breaking ceasefire agreement isn’t the way for peace.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Palestinians don't want peace. If they did, they would immediately accept a ceasefire.
catador_de_potos@reddit
Commenting something like this under the context of this post is just incredibly evil at this point.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Refusing to accept a ceasefire has consequences.
cookingboy@reddit
Using that logic you can justify Israel nuking Gaza tomorrow.
And you can use that logic to justify 9/11 and Oct.7th.
You can use that logic to justify Russia committing war crimes.
But you won’t, because you want to kill Palestines and you support Israel, not any kind of logic you claim to adhere to.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
I do not oppose the Palestinian people. I simply oppose the genocidal ideology of Palestinian nationalism.
cookingboy@reddit
Even if that’s true (it’s insanely false), there must be a better way to oppose genocidal ideology (not actions, just ideas) than preemptively committing genocide, no?
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Genocidal ideologies have no right to exist. Period.
cookingboy@reddit
So let’s commit genocide first to root out genocidal ideology.
Lmao dude are you even listening to yourself here?
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Do you agree that genocidal ideologies have no right to exist?
cookingboy@reddit
Do you?
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Of course not. Genocidal ideologies have no right to exist. That's why the genocidal ideology of Palestinian nationalism must be permanently stamped out.
Genocidal ideologies have no right to exist. Period.
cookingboy@reddit
By committing genocide?
Just answer that question please.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
No, by stamping out the genocidal ideology. The same way that the genocidal ideology of Nazism was stamped out in Germany, and the genocidal ideology of Japanese imperialism was stamped out in Japan.
catador_de_potos@reddit
i can't imagine any sane person reading the post above and immediately thinking "I can't believe Palestine would do such a thing". Holy shit dude, american literacy at it once again
You guys are not beating the "cartoonishly evil" allegations lmao. No wonder you guys got played into voting your own dictator into office if the majority of you really thinks like this.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Cool story bro. Accept the ceasefire or accept the consequences of choosing war instead.
catador_de_potos@reddit
They did. Israel broke it, and now you're pushing the blame onto their victims just like an abusive bully would. I'm not surprised tho, you're american after all. Their idiosyncrasy is the exact same "bomb civilians and then call them terrorists" bullshit that you're so famous of.
Good riddance, seems like Trump is finally getting that wall around you that he wanted so much. Your global hegemony won't be missed.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
You keep pretending Phase 2 of the ceasefire doesn’t exist because Israel is the one violating the agreement. Not Hamas.
flastenecky_hater@reddit
Just release the hostages, it's so fucking simple. Though, the war going is in interest of bigger powers in the region anyway, since they just use it as a proxy against the west.
So no matter what happens and no matter how many ceasefire will happen, there's always going to be a conflict one way or another. Also remember, Hamas leaders having a nice lifestyle outside the Palestine (guess who's paying for that) claimed many times they need dead civilians in Palestine.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
The simple fact you refuse to reckon with is every hostage was slated for release during Phase 2. Read more.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Again, if Palestine wants a ceasefire, then they are free to accept Israel's ceasefire terms at literally any time.
TheOtherwise_Flow@reddit
You’re a fascist
VizzzyT@reddit
Do Americans support their military despite the fact that it has killed millions of civilians and has been caught committing war crimes and rapes across the world?
cookingboy@reddit
The guy you are replying to literally thinks because Palestinians has “genocidal ideology” (the audacity of this claim lmao), Israel is justified to preemptively commits genocide to kill all men, women and children in Gaza: https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/s/zTzrvKAIN8
He’s a sick and deranged human being.
VizzzyT@reddit
Ending resistance to Israel means the end of Palestine. Israel exists to erase Palestinians. Palestinians have tried the diplomatic route and Israel rejected it over and over, which led to the abandonment of the Palestinian authority and the rise of Hamas. Israel has been killing Gazans yearly since before Hamas was founded.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Palestine attacked Israel on May 15, 1948.
How very "diplomatic" of them.
VizzzyT@reddit
By May 15th 1948 250,000 Palestinians had already been ethnically cleansed by Zionist militias.
The Deir Yassin massacre happened in April. As did the ethnic cleansing of Tiberias, Safed, Jaffa, Haifa, and dozens of villages. The Arab states declared war on May 15th and cited these massacres as the reason. Palestine did not declare war since the Palestinians did not have an army, as noted by the Yishuv intelligence officials the Palestinians were almost entirely unarmed.
Israel did not exist on May 14th. They unilaterally declared independence against everyone's wishes, including Britian and the US (who were working on a 5 year transition period)
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
How quickly the goalposts move from "Palestine is peaceful and diplomatic towards Israel" to "Ok, Palestinians think that they have a right to destroy Israel through violence, but that violence is totally justified!"
VizzzyT@reddit
That's not a response to what I said nor is it close to what was said above.
Every Zionist is illiterate.
VizzzyT@reddit
Of course now they vanish. They've left over 20 comments elsewhere since but are obviously too afraid to respond to actual facts.
Maybe if I was an infant this Zionist would respond with some actual force.
NoHetro@reddit
Did you ask about priority or what it takes for this war to stop?
self-assembled@reddit
No, Hamas offered to cede power too.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Do you have a source for them offering to cede power?
self-assembled@reddit
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-846811
GothicGolem29@reddit
Thanks.
Though he reiterated Hamas’ offer to integrate into a Palestinian unity government
So this is seemingly speakig about a Palestinian unity gov Which Hamas is seemingly wanting to be apart of. So they arent wanting to leave gov just are willing for partner to govern with them
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
When did Hamas do that?
self-assembled@reddit
During the phase 2 negotiations Israel refused to genuinely participate in, it's public knowledge from the negotiations.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Not any public knowledge ive seen
self-assembled@reddit
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-846811
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
"Just stop fighting us and we'll totally leave power. Trust us bro!"
Lol. Sure Hamas
self-assembled@reddit
Fact of the matter is that Israel can save money on bombs, get the hostages, and get Hamas out of power, but chooses ethnic cleansing. Today is dropped leaflets saying this:
occupation forces dropped leaflets in Gaza overnight on Wednesday telling civilians "the world map will not change if all the people of Gaza vanish."
The harrowing message implored Gazans to leave "before the implementation of Trump’s forced plan—which will impose your forced displacement whether you like it or not."
The message continued, "We have decided to make a final appeal to those who wish to receive aid in exchange for cooperating with us. We will not hesitate for a moment to help."
Otherwise, it suggested, "No one will feel for you, and no one will ask about you. You are left alone to face your inevitable fate."
"Neither US nor Europe cares about Gaza," it stated, before concluding, "The game is almost over, and only a little remains. Whoever wants to save themselves before it’s too late, we are here to stay until Judgment Day."
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
That's what happens when you refuse a ceasefire.
Actions have consequences.
cookingboy@reddit
You are literally arguing that genocide and mass killing of civilians are justified if one side of war refuses to surrender.
You think there is nothing wrong with mass murdering of civilians as the primary goal of a campaign.
So you are saying 9/11 and 10/7 are justified because those are just consequences the governments’ actions.
Just think for a second, if that’s an action you are capable of.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
If Ukraine had committed an October 7th style attack against Russia, Russia would be completely justified in fighting Ukraine until Ukraine surrendered.
But obviously, Ukraine didn't do that.
cookingboy@reddit
You do know that war crimes are war crimes no matter who started the war right?
And October 7th is justified according to you, because it’s simple retaliation against Israel’s actions over the past few decades.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
This is what the anti-Israel left has argued since literally the day of the attacks. From the beginning, the left has defended October 7th as "legitimate resistance against oppression".
cookingboy@reddit
Using your logic, it is legitimate response!
Because in your argument, as long as one side commits wrong of any degree, an unlimited degree of retaliation and escalation is justified.
You literally think just because Hamas was the aggressor for this war, unlimited killing of Palestinian civilians is justified until the unconditional surrender of Hamas.
So using your own logic, since Israel was the aggressor at West Bank, unlimited killing of Israeli civilians is justified until Israel pulls out of West Bank unconditionally.
It’s not me, it’s you, who is trying to argue that Oct 7th is righteous and justified.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Again, this is literally the anti-Israel crowd's position. They argue that literally anything Palestinians do to Israelis, including the mass rape of Israeli women and the mass slaughter of Israeli children, is entirely righteous and justified because of Israel's alleged wrongdoing.
cookingboy@reddit
It is your position as well!!!
Like why do you not see it is your logic as well! All of your comments literally say “anything is justified as a retaliation”.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Why is it a problem for me to share the same ideology as you?
cookingboy@reddit
I don’t share the same ideology as you.
I don’t think October 7th was justified, you do.
I don’t think genocide of Palestine is justified, you do.
So we aren’t the same.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
You think that any and all Palestinian violence against Israel is justified because of Israel's alleged wrongdoings.
You folks dropped the mask in October 2023 and you haven't put it back on since.
cookingboy@reddit
No I don’t think that. Stop lying.
You do.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Yes you do think that. We've all heard you speaking since October 2023.
You think that all Palestinian violence against Israel is justified, and you're not shy about admitting it.
cookingboy@reddit
Show me where I said it.
Show me where I said it.
I literally said October 7th was not justified, yet you are insisting on making stuff up.
I am literally saying the opposite.
But it seems like reality doesn’t matter to people like you.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Your actions prove it. Every single action that the anti-Israel left has taken since October 2023 proves that they there is no act of Palestinian violence that you will not support.
cookingboy@reddit
Show me what my actions are.
You don’t even know me lmao. Stop arguing with someone you imagined in your head.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Show me the friends you keep and I'll show you who you are.
It's just like the left said after Charlottesville. If you welcome violent bigots into your movement with open arms, then the entire movement is responsible for that violent bigotry being done in their name.
cookingboy@reddit
You mean the Israeli friend I messaged on October 8th, 2023 to make sure he and his loved ones are Ok?
https://imgur.com/a/dBqCFZY
Like I said. You don’t know me.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
No bigot ever admits to being a bigot, and this case is no exception.
cookingboy@reddit
Me: showing you a screenshot of me asking my Jewish friend from Israel if he and his family were ok
You: what a bigot you are
Ok then.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
"I can't be racist because I have a Jewish friend"
Imagine unironically arguing this lol. Guess the fact that I have a Muslim friend means that I'm off the hook for any accusations you throw at me too
cookingboy@reddit
I have never thrown any racist accusation at you in the first place.
So the fact you are suddenly playing this “you are a racist anti-Semite” card is pretty insane.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
You literally accused me of "supporting genocide" LMFAO
self-assembled@reddit
You are scum. I don't know how you people sleep supporting genocide.
flastenecky_hater@reddit
And why they would do it when they can keep milking the Western world for money. After all, it's not a hard guess where all the humanitarian help and money ends.
And after so a long time there's no evidence the money was put to a good use.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
You just ignored the part about Hamas surrendering. That’s just as important as returning the hostages.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
I did not. Hamas can only be destroyed by destroying Gaza. They are among the civilian population that Israel is massacring. They have reduced Gaza to rubble and Trump/Netanyahu are openly calling for the final expulsion of all 2+ million Palestinians in Gaza. That is the priority over the hostages. Otherwise, they would have followed through with Phase 2.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
I don’t think that Hamas is endemic in the population of Gaza. My expectations are not quite as low for them as yours.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
You don’t understand the situation then. Israel is the one who claims Hamas = all Palestinians in Gaza. I believe Israel has the means to destroy Hamas without dropping a single bomb. Guarantee Palestinian sovereignty and allow them to live in dignity with access to basic needs and services. Instead they are killing thousands of innocents and have reduced their healthcare infrastructure to rubble.
The IDF is the single greatest contributor to Hamas recruitment.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
The reality is that, as things stand right now, granting Palestinians sovereignty would only encourage more terrorism and violence. Palestinians need to lay down their arms and actually prepare to govern their own state.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Millions of Palestinians in Gaza have laid down their arms and are attempting to rebuild and survive in the rubble created by Israel. Hamas is the minority who have the weapons. The reality is that if your family was buried under your home then I think you would be susceptible to joining any extremist group. Israel has the power to limit Hamas recruitment numbers. But their goal is ethnic cleansing and control of Gaza. Nothing more.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
In any society only a minority of people actually do the fighting. Israel already had control of Gaza prior to 2005, they withdrew.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
When every last Palestinian is pushed out of Gaza you will make up some other justification. They are saying it openly and you still don’t care. You have made up your mind.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
I don’t know what the solution is for Gaza. I would rather not displace people, if possible.
Daryno90@reddit
So you will excuse it when the time come, hell you’ll excuse the IDF putting Palestinians into the gas chambers too
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Nobody is going to put Palestinians in fucking gas chambers.
Daryno90@reddit
No, they are just going to murder them with bombing and snipers, starvation, blocking medicine from going through, my point is you when the time come that this genocide will obvious to see, you’ll defend the genocide of them
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
At this rate, it’ll take them 400 years to get to that point.
Daryno90@reddit
They are literally ramping it up right now and again, you’ll defend the mass murdering of innocents. You already said that they don’t deserve freedom or self determination, I’m supposed to think you above defending genocide? Also the death toll is likely in the 100s of thousands according to experts, that death toll is severely undercounted (because Israel destroyed their healthcare infrastructure, making it impossible to really keep out and Israel won’t let anyone in to do a count.)
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Everyone deserves freedom. It’s not practical or logical to disengage when all indicators point to violence continuing and even escalating. We don’t need another failed state in the Middle East.
yoweigh@reddit
This is exactly why they haven't given up the hostages. Israel has outright stated that the occupation would continue regardless. The Palestinians don't want that and the hostages are their only leverage.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
It’s a bad situation Hamas as put themselves in. Sucks to be them
yoweigh@reddit
What you're saying is that you don't have a legitimate response to my comment, so you've chosen to be dismissive instead. It doesn't make sense for Hamas to give up the hostages without a guarantee that Israel will stop oppressing Palestine, because that's been their goal all along. This point of view shouldn't be controversial. It's pragmatic.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
They have a right to be pragmatic, so does Israel. Hamas needs to be absolutely eradicated, regardless of the status of hostages. They cannot keep governing Gaza going forward.
Daryno90@reddit
Whatever dirtbag, Israel is depriving them of that freedom and you had been defending Israel doing it along with their genocide
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
In all likelihood we are going to all witness 2+ million human beings violently expelled from Gaza. And that will be unlike what we have seen so far. every Palestinian who resists will be labeled a terrorist. It’s been the same thing for decades. Ethnic displacement and oppression of Palestinians. I hope I’m wrong.
Zipz@reddit
“Millions”
Theirs a little more than 2 million people who live in Gaza. So clearly millions haven’t put down their arms.
Stubbs94@reddit
The person you're speaking to doesn't care. They see Palestinians as disposable if it means Israel gets what it wants.
Rurian@reddit
This is pure Israeli propaganda, not unlike what the US used as an argument to prevent the abolishment of slavery. Palestinians have to take up arms because peaceful protests and discussions don't work when your opponent does not have a conscience, and the world does nothing when Israel commits acts of terror and genocide for almost 80 years. It's only when oppressed people finally fight back that the global 'West' even looks at them. Additionally, you might want to look up how many peaceful demonstrations resulted in a non-violent reply from Israel (hint: none).
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Peaceful protests won’t get your entire urban centre flattened and looking like ww2 Dresden, so there’s that.
Rurian@reddit
Soo comparing a war crime to another war crime? Classy coming from another nation built on colonization and genocide.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
I’m just saying that maybe firing rockets at your militarily superior neighbour is not a great idea.
Rurian@reddit
Then do what? Just die silently and not inconvenience westerners with the fact that their tax dollars are funding a genocide?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
They need to recognize that armed resistance is hurting their own cause, and act accordingly.
Dramatical45@reddit
Ah yes, peaceful. West Bank which had PLO lay down arms and work with Israel in a peaceful manner sure helped them a lot!
Rurian@reddit
Yeah I agree, they should stay put in their concentration camps and get killed off on the whims of the European colonists living and partying right outside the illegal border wall.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
It’s literally on their border, how is that illegal? No Israelis were even in Gaza so I don’t know how they would be killed off.
Rurian@reddit
Because it is forbidden by international law? You really need to step up your hasbara game. Also, there were regular airstrikes on Gaza for decades, but you'll find a way to whatabout anything if you try hard enough. Nobody cares about killing brown people but God forbid they fight back.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
You know what else was happening in Gaza for decades? Firing fucking rockets!
Rurian@reddit
And why were they firing rockets?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
To kill as many civilians as they can and terrorize the Israeli population?
Rurian@reddit
You want to try that again but in good faith?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Okay I’ll bite, why are they firing rockets randomly at civilians? Enlighten me
Rurian@reddit
The question was with the hopes that you'd actually look something up for the first time in your life, but I guess that is too tall a task. I give up, have a day.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Yeah, I didn’t think you could justify it. I would’ve liked to see you try at least.
Rurian@reddit
Here and here are two (respectively Israeli and American) documentaries on some of the beginnings. Watch that and you'll find out if you pay attention.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
None of this is mitigated at all by firing rockets at civilian areas
Rurian@reddit
Wow you watched those pretty quickly.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
There is nothing it could say to justify that. It’s just terrorizing civilians.
Rurian@reddit
Oh so nothing can justify a fertilizer rocket that can barely break a rooftile but dropping guided R9X Hellfire missiles on a hospital courtyard is fair game? You need to go back to the womb, you're not done yet.
historicusXIII@reddit
Armed protest gets your urban centre flattened by bombs. Peaceful protest gets your ubran centre flattened by bulldozers to make room for Israeli settlements. There's no winning for them.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Most Palestinian homes get flattened because a resident of the house participated in an act of violence against the IDF or civilians. I disagree with the policy, but that’s what happens most of the time.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Looking forward to annexation?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Annexing the West Bank?
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
I thought you were canadian (for now at least), my bad
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
I can’t respond to your other comment for some reason. The music festival that got absolutely shot to shit didn’t have any IDF presence. A lot of the border communities only had armed police at first to confront the terrorists. A lot of all people that morning were asking where the fuck the IDF was. Military bases were also targeted of course.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
That's strange, how can a festival with no IDF presence also be the place where IDF soldiers were taken "hostage"?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Were they armed? Or were they off duty servicemen?
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
I've never heard you guys make that distinction when Israel is bombing residential buildings in the middle of the night taking out multi generational families in one swoop.
So if doing that to take out one sleeping hamas guy is cool with you then a festival should be no problem.
What's the issue pal?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
One is a state and one is a terror organization. I have different standards for the two.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
So you have lower standards for the "state"?
Lmao, you have as much business crying about hamas as a russian nationalist does crying about azov
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
I’m much more lenient with legitimate states than with terror organizations. Sorry if that’s unfair
Zipz@reddit
Tell me about all these peaceful protests. Tell me about these large Palestinian organizations that are peaceful
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Enjoying maga?
Zipz@reddit
Enjoying being a fake Israeli ?
I love it how people like you never have an actual argument or can actually debate anything.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
I'm just curious if you're enjoying Trump gutting your environmental protection agency, why so hostile?
I mean at least Israel is happy and that's what counts!
Zipz@reddit
I’m not a trump fan.
Try again. It’s so weird you have to lie about everything don’t you?
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Why not? Isn't he who Israelis wanted for president?
Zipz@reddit
I’m not Israeli…
Why are you asking me? You’re Israeli after all you should know
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
I do know, Israelis wanted him as your president.
So you should be happy right? You serve at the behest of Israel
Zipz@reddit
The more I talk to you the more I realize something is seriously wrong with you
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
So you don't care what Israelis want?
Alright hamas supporter
mostard_seed@reddit
Kill people relentlessly. Antagonize them. Make sure they can never see you in an agreeable light. Blame them for all the violence you forced upon them with 0 accountability.
Great strategy.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
It takes two sides to fight a war. You’re acting like Palestinians are all defenceless armless children.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
So you think the people resisting colonization are as much to blame for violence as the regime carrying out the colonization?
mostard_seed@reddit
compared to the IDF, that is pretty close, yes. No amount of arms and adults will help you against an airforce when you have no standing army or air defense.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Well maybe it’s a bad idea to attack the stronger army then? Imagine firing rockets at a militarily superior side and then being surprised when you get wrecked.
mostard_seed@reddit
Yes. Let them choke you slowly and quietly with an unending siege and occasional air raids every now and then. Doesn't sound good either ya know.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Nobody will do air raids if there’s nothing to target. Imagine Gaza without tunnels or rocket launching platforms. Imagine actually caring enough about your own people to not put them through constant bombardment.
mostard_seed@reddit
Maybe you ignored what I said, but I will tell you something that you are free to believe or not. Hamas's existence is purely reactionary. The bombing and siege predates them.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Yes, there were Palestinian terror groups before Hamas. That doesn’t change anything.
Daryno90@reddit
Yeah because Israel been a murderous bastard to them since day 1
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Ever hear of the war of independence? Israel HAD to fight for its existence because the Arab side refused a partition plan proposed by the UN
Daryno90@reddit
You mean Arabs wanted the land that was stolen from them and wouldn’t accept the deal that those who stolen the land gave them? Who would had thought
And with how Israel constantly violate their ceasefire deal, they would probably violate those deals too
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
That’s not what happened. Read into it, it’s actually really fucking complicated.
Daryno90@reddit
When people say something is complicated, what they are really saying is the truth is too uncomfortable for them so they try to tell themselves lies.
The situation isn’t complicated at all, one group have all of the power and they been abusing another group with that power
CwazyCanuck@reddit
So the one thing that Palestinians have been pursuing since they were deprived of it, sovereignty and self determination (which go hand in hand) is the one thing you believe they should not have. Despite Hamas stating they would lay down their arms if such a goal was achieved.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
They should have a state eventually. It’s just going to take a lot of time.
Daryno90@reddit
So you dirtbags would deprive people of their freedom and rights to self determination because Israel might reap the consequences of their action? Fuck you
meister2983@reddit
No, Hamas just needs to surrender. They won't do that per the article:
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Ending the occupation of Palestinians is a good thing actually.
meister2983@reddit
Sure? Life in the West Bank is much better than Gaza.
Israel isn't going to end occupation when there is no viable party which will maintain a monopoly on violence to prevent future attacks on it.
blazerz@reddit
What happens when Hamas surrenders and nothing else changes for the Palestinians, and they inevitably form Hamas 2?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Well, they should also commit to a peaceful solution.
adasiukevich@reddit
You mean like the PA in West Bank? Look how that's working out for them.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
You mean the ones who handle the martyr’s fund?
adasiukevich@reddit
The ones who have recognized the state of Israel and in return have their land stolen and their children murdered.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Giving up violence and not encouraging it would be another step. Israelis deserve to live in peace without having to worry about maniacs firing rockets at them or being randomly stabbed.
adasiukevich@reddit
Maybe they should stop stealing land and start arresting violent settlers?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Your average civilian in Israel just wants to live their life in peace, same as the average Palestinian. The fighting has to stop at some point.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
The majority of israeli citizens is in favor of the genocide. In fact, most of them think their regime isn't murdering enough palestinians. If they wanted to live in peace they would oppose genocide and colonialism.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
You think a huge amount of Israelis aren’t protesting against the war, are you serious?
BrazilianTomato@reddit
I didn't say they deserve to die. You simoly can't systematically oppress a people and not expect violence. Those who truly want peace will support an end to the systematic oppression perpetuated by the State of Israel.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
The violence predates the oppression though
adasiukevich@reddit
That's not true.
https://www.972mag.com/before-zionism-the-shared-life-of-jews-and-palestinians/
BrazilianTomato@reddit
So you think systematic oppression is a justifiable thing?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Only in war time.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
Palestinians have endured over 70 years of systematic oppression and colonial violence now.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Yeah, because violence has been going on the entire time
BrazilianTomato@reddit
Apartheid logic.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Not even close. The people behind apartheid weren’t exactly shy about their reasoning.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
And neither are you, openly justifying genocide, systematic oppression, and colonialism. Zionists are just as shameless as white settlers were in South Africa and Rhodesia.
adasiukevich@reddit
Is that why they keep electing governments that continue to escalate violence?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
It’s a parliamentary democracy, a majority could vote against it and they could still gain power.
adasiukevich@reddit
Do the majority vote against it?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Likud’s share of the vote is only like 20 percent of I remember correctly
adasiukevich@reddit
It's not just the Likud party that escalates violence. In fact, they're arguably one of the lesser extreme parties in the current coalition.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
They’re the ruling party and have the largest vote share.
cesaroncalves@reddit
Maybe you should see the videos of the settlers in the West Bank, Palestinians don't get to live without fear of being shot or stabbed a random day a settler is bored.
Maybe Israel should stop financing the settlements if they really want peace, witch they don't, they want land.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Does a random civilian in Tel Aviv deserve to be fired upon because settlers behave like scum?
adasiukevich@reddit
No but Israelis are always using Hamas as an excuse to justify violence against the entire population of Gaza.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Israelis are going to work and looking after their children. They aren’t constantly thinking about Gaza, believe it or not
adasiukevich@reddit
Palestinians would love to be able to just go to work and look after their children, but their homes are being destroyed and their children murdered.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
I don’t doubt it. It’s absolutely tragic what’s happening to innocent people on both sides of this.
blazerz@reddit
Israel's not put a peaceful solution on the table though. This whole rhetoric of 'this whole thing stops when Hamas surrenders' only focuses on the symptom and not the disease, which is the oppression of Palestinians.
NoHetro@reddit
There was a time when the Palestinians had a chance to live peacefully in Israel, we saw what happened with the intifada and the second intifada, they were given plenty of chances.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
The oppression of Palestinians is a direct result of perpetual war. If that ends, the pressure on Israel to grant the Palestinians a state would be impossible to withstand. Palestinians have also rejected deals in the past that would’ve granted them their own state.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
So your solution is for palestinians to just roll over and die until the Israeli regime decides to gracefully create a puppet state for them to live in? And blaming the oppressed for their own oppression is not unexpected at all. Classical zionist.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
That’s a funny way of framing a negotiated two state solution, but yeah.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Why would they surrender? Israel has given them no incentive to surrender, other than they may stop killing Palestinians, although they haven’t officially committed to that. And surrender means members, regardless of committing any actual crimes, will face life in prison, where they will likely be tortured, possibly raped, and maybe even killed.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
They will surrender and might die, or they can keep on fighting and definitely die. Sounds like a solid incentive to me.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
But absolutely not negotiating a peace, right? It’s amazing how you Zionists have convinced the world that Hamas is the one that doesn’t want peace. Israeli propaganda rivals that of Russia and Nazi Germany.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
For real. The amount of nazi like rhetoric zionists spout when they try defend israeli atrocities would make Goebbels proud.
Stubbs94@reddit
Why were Israel negotiating with Hamas for the hostage exchange if that was the only goal? Why are they mainly killing women and children? What is actually wrong with you, that you see Israel murdering children and you can't even blame them or feel disgusted by their actions. Do you hold that much hatred for the Palestinian people?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
A lot of civilians die in urban combat, that’s unfortunately common during war.
Stubbs94@reddit
Are you that callous about the civilians killed on 07/10/2023?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Breaking into people’s houses and deliberately gunning children down is kind of different than striking terrorist infrastructure embedded in civilian areas.
LEFT4Sp00ning@reddit
"Terrorist infrastructure" the Canadian says in an article that starts with Israel bombing a family home where they killed 16 people, 8 of which were a father and his 7 kids. Huhuh
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Do you know what the strike was targeting? What the intelligence on the location was? Do you know anything besides the alleged result of the strike?
LEFT4Sp00ning@reddit
"uhm but were they targetting Hamas? Then it's fine to kill 16 civilians" I guess genocide just runs too deep in the canadian spirit to be extricated from it
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Intent is everything in this case. If they were targeting something and civilians are killed, it’s a tragedy. Collateral damage is without a doubt the worst part of war.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Why are you shitting yourself about hamas then? Everywhere they attacked had IDF soldiers present.
It's just war bro
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
That’s flat out false and you know it.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Name one place they attacked that didn't have IDF soldiers and then link proof please
LEFT4Sp00ning@reddit
Okay, just keep spitting defense for yet another horrible attack on civilians by Israel. I hope someone's paying you for this shit because otherwise, you're just a damn ghoul of a person (you'd still be a ghoul if you were getting paid but at least I'd understand it then)
Green_Space729@reddit
Do you?
You can make up and call anything terrorist infrastructure without any evidence these days.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
I’m not making a claim about the strike. Because it would be totally uninformed
Green_Space729@reddit
We have information available of what it struck and who it killed.
Yet you’re rejecting it out right.
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
No, I can totally believe civilians were killed in the strike.
Stubbs94@reddit
I'm sure you feel the same about the children the idf snipers intentionally shot?
WhiteMouse42097@reddit
Fuck yeah, if that’s proven to be true, line them up against the wall and shoot them. I’m not saying that atrocities haven’t happened. When you’ve got people conscripted, there are bound to be some sickos who wear the uniform.
Private_HughMan@reddit
That's what PHASE TWO WAS FOR.
GarethSanchez@reddit
They had offers on the table. They rejected them because surrendering their arms and power over Gaza was never an option in their minds. These are the guys that said they want to do Oct 7th over and over again.
And now people have to suffer and many will die.
Private_HughMan@reddit
That's not true. Israel didn't even want to begin phase 2. They kept demanding extensions to phase 1. The right wing coalition is cheering for more war right now.
GarethSanchez@reddit
This doesn’t have to happen in phases. they don’t need to trickle in a few hostages here or there.
Lay down your arms, give everyone back in one fell swoop. Fighting is over. It’s a very very very simple. We have been saying these for a year and a half. The right wing coalition is asking for more war because Hamas is using human beings, innocent humans, as bargaining chips and “leverage”.
Terrh@reddit
And what happens when they lay down arms and then Israel resumes the war?
Can you not see why that isn't acceptable?
GarethSanchez@reddit
You’re saying this like it’s a matter of fact when it isn’t. Israel has made it clear that they intend to eliminate Hamas. But that’s either through death or demilitarization. This is well known. For all of the vilification Bibi gets, he’s said this maybe 1000x. These are the scenarios:
It couldn’t be more simple. But they don’t want the former because the fighting has never been about Palestinian liberation, it’s about killing the “Yahud”. Always has been, always will be.
Terrh@reddit
Remind me again, which side broke the ceasefire agreement?
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-ceasefire-hostages-netanyahu-ff48f081b069e484955a72bc68261364
djhab@reddit
israel made it claer tha they intend to eliminate Gaza and west bank.
GarethSanchez@reddit
Nah. They made it clear they won’t take kindly to terrorists and insurgents and those two options I listed were always on the table. Ball is in Hamas’s court to come forward, surrender, and release everyone. If they don’t want to they’ll die, and there will sadly be collateral damage.
TheOtherwise_Flow@reddit
I imagine you in WW2 defending the nazi for what they’re doing the same way you’re deffending Israel.
GarethSanchez@reddit
Such a false equivalence. Sorry Jews aren’t laying down and dying anymore
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Why do white peoples have such a victim complex 🤮
serioussham@reddit
Why has Netanyahu deliberately propped up Hamas against Fatah then?
Private_HughMan@reddit
Israel agreed to terms which would have gotten them their hostages back. Israel decided that wasn't what they wanted. Israel desk t want their hostages back. They want Palestinians to disappear. Nothing less.
GarethSanchez@reddit
This is genuinely a boldfaced lie that you have gaslit yourself into believing for whatever reason. The propaganda machine is really working overtime.
The terms that Israel has rejected all required thousands of dangerous prisoners to be released. As much as you like to say “oh they’re just children, there’s no due process” the vast majority committed violent acts (stabbings, shootings, etc.) against Israelis.
Just release the hostages or more people die. That’s it.
Idrialite@reddit
You never pointed out the "boldfaced lie".
The terms Israel "rejected" (which they already agreed to) also required Israel to withdraw troops from Gaza before the phase 2 exchange would begin.
This could have been an end to the conflict and Israel could have gotten their hostages back. The point of the agreement was to slowly de-escalate.
This is a bold-faced lie. Yes, holding people without due process is bad. Most of them haven't been charged with anything, let alone "violent acts".
Furthermore, they're subject to a two-tiered justice system where Israelis are granted due process, Palestinians aren't, Israelis enjoy looser laws (e.g. in regards to protesting), while Palestinians take plea bargains in the face of near-certain conviction in sham trials.
They're physically abused and tortured (1400 complaints between 2001 and 2022 and others in more recent history: 86% of children are beaten and 70% are strip-searched).
And most importantly: Israeli wasn't to release all prisoners in phase 2. Not even in phase 3. I'm sure there really are some terrorists in custody. Then don't release them. Release those in custody for flying Palestinian flags.
Instead, Israel decided to prolong the conflict by continuing to occupy Gaza and committing more terrorist strikes on Palestinian civilians.
It's clear they don't care about the hostages. If they did, they would have stuck to the ceasfire plan.
GarethSanchez@reddit
There was no definitive “plan” past phase one or else there would be no reason for Israel to go back to attacking Hamas. How are you not understanding this? Everything past phase 1 was tentative at best and total bullshit at worst. Either way, the only way for the ceasefire to continue was for there to be an actionable plan in place. There wasn’t so fighting resumed.
At any point Hamas can come forward and say “we are releasing all the hostages” and they aren’t. Ball is in their court. It’s not on Israel to make concessions, they didn’t kidnap those who are hostages. Surrender or die. Can’t blame Israel for taking that stance.
Idrialite@reddit
This is complete bullshit. This is twice now you've lied about this.
The plan may not have been super concrete, but the general terms were clear:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4
It was perfectly actionable. Withdraw from Gaza. Exchange hostages and prisoners. Continue to negotiate peace.
Israel specifically changed their minds on the continuation of the deal and presented new terms:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-ceasefire-hostages-witkoff-plan-46a639d66772915ba1ed0b43cd2728d8
Why are you ignoring all the abhorrent shit Israel has done and continues to do? Isn't it equally valid to take a hardline stance in this way: not to release hostages until Israel ends their occupation and human rights abuses and war crimes?
Why are you out here covering for Israel's terrorist attacks? It's fucking evil, and I can do the opposite: it's also evil when Hamas attacks civilians.
GarethSanchez@reddit
“The plan wasn’t concrete” is NOT A PLAN
Idrialite@reddit
I said "the plan may not have been super concrete". I also asserted it was "actionable" which you specifically objected to. Dude, everyone can see the text you're replying to. Who do you think you're fooling?
Private_HughMan@reddit
Another lie. Israel didn't even get to hear any terms to reject.
GarethSanchez@reddit
I’m saying up until this point that has always been the hold up on Israel’s side in negotiations.
Private_HughMan@reddit
Except that wasn't a hold up. That's been a thing they've already shown they're willing to do.
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Will you find it as funny when Israel is uninhabitable in the semi near future? I wonder will all the belligerence be worth it when israelis are the new palestinians
GarethSanchez@reddit
Lmao genocide of the Jewish nation. How original
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
So is that a no? Or do you just not believe in global warming?
GarethSanchez@reddit
Ohnoitsretarded.jpg
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
So you don't believe in climate change, fair enough.
When mother mature comes knocking to the already arid Israel, I hope it'll be worth it!
Waffles86@reddit
Well Israel agreed to a ceasefire in phases, so they broke the agreement.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Don’t argue with this dude.
“Israel” only exists to sow chaos and disorder in the Middle East. It is a military base. Their “Defense force” are raiding parties. Every “Citizen” is a soldier. Same with European colonizers in the America. Same with Europeans colonizing and enslaving Africans.
Even if you are white like them they don’t give a darn about you beyond conscripting you as disposable cannon fodder so they can continue to steal land and murder women.
Give them the same respect they give us. Fucking none.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Yall. Don’t argue with this dude.
“Israel” only exists to sow chaos and disorder in the Middle East. It is a military base. Their “Defense force” are raiding parties. Every “Citizen” is a soldier. Same with European colonizers in the America. Same with Europeans colonizing and enslaving Africans.
Even if you are white like them they don’t give a darn about you beyond conscripting you as disposable cannon fodder so they can continue to steal land and murder women.
Give them the same respect they give us. Fucking none.
GarethSanchez@reddit
Why are you making this about white people; most Israelis are middle eastern?
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Most of the US isn’t white but you don’t intentionally misunderstand accusations of white supremacy and European imperialism when it comes to that. In fact you regard the non white populace as victims of it. We are the primary victims and guinea pigs to it.
Apply the same logic to Isntreal
GarethSanchez@reddit
The fuck are you going on about? Hahaha
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Israel has killed more hostages than they have rescued.
rhino369@reddit
I've generally been supportive of Israel. But you can't morally fight a war that kills a lot of civilians over a small number of hostages. I don't think 20 hostages can justify this war any longer. You just can't kill 10,000 more people over 20 hostages.
Fighting until Hamas surrenders is a valid war goal. But I don't think that really is Israel's true goal, at least now, if it ever was. Does Israel believe it has a realistic chance of actually accomplishing it?
GarethSanchez@reddit
So WW2 wasn’t a moral and just war? Should we go back in time and let it play out differently?
And wow what number of hostages would make it okay for you? This isn’t a game of Risk. It’s real life.
modianoyyo@reddit
just return the land bro it will be over once you return the land we have been saying this for 75 years
GarethSanchez@reddit
Nah. We just got back after 2000 years
AlphaNoodle@reddit
Look at tools comment history, obviously is troll is obvious
GarethSanchez@reddit
I’m not a troll. Just not an idiot.
cesaroncalves@reddit
Aka he get's paid for this.
GarethSanchez@reddit
I WISH hahaha
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Go back to Europe
GarethSanchez@reddit
Lmaooo tell the Palestinians to go back to the Arabian Peninsula while you’re at it 😂
Racist weirdo
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
I beleive you meant to accuse me of being “Anti-white”
Grow a pair. Make your ancestors from the Klan proud. Don’t squiggle and squirm because someone doesn’t agree with your racism and white supremacy
GarethSanchez@reddit
WHAT
djhab@reddit
then a useful idiot.
dickermuffer@reddit
Alright, then there are no reasonable grounds to believe genocides is occurring.
Give me picture proof that genocide has occurred. Without it, I simply won’t accept it at all.
I need to see footage of the IDF slaughtering whole cities. Just like you need to see a whole ass rape victim that was likely raped and immediately killed by Hamas.
Also, prove to me 48k Palestinians died. I need to see a picture of each of their bodies. I will only count a dead Palestinian if you can show me a direct photo of their dead body. Otherwise, there is no proof that person died nor ever even existed.
Get the fuck out of here rape denying terror simp.
rattleandhum@reddit
gishgalloping tool.
cookingboy@reddit
Just curious, did you demand to see pictures of the body of every single 9/11 victim or do you believe that’s a conspiracy as well?
Just want to know whether you are dumb or just being a hypocrite.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
… and all the Palestinians are ethnically cleansed…
GarethSanchez@reddit
Y’all love using the term “ethnic cleansing” like it’s some “gotcha”. Are you guys capable of independent thought, or do you just regurgitate any words with two or more syllables that make you feel mildly intelligent?
0 Jews in Gaza 2 Million Arabs in Israel
Just give the hostages back and lay down arms and it’s over. So easy. There are no other arguments needed. If that isn’t a viable solution in your eyes, you want the conflict to drag out just as much as you claim the right wingers in Israel do
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Israeli politicians are rushing to declare their intention to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. You think that they are all liars when they say this is what they want? After mass murdering tens of thousands of Palestinians?
I know that the working assumption is that everyone is too stupid to understand the malevolent intent of Israel, even after it commits genocide, but please give us some credit. You Zionists have been cheering for mass murder and ethnic cleaning and atrocities for the last 18 months non-stop. You’ve convinced us that this is what you actually want.
GarethSanchez@reddit
If I had to have a drink for every time someone incorrectly claimed “ethnically cleansing” and “genocide” I would have died a million times over. It’s getting tiresome and frankly it takes away from actual genocides.
It’s not about being “stupid”. I don’t think any of you are stupid just wildly misguided and misinformed. All Israelis want is to be left alone.
But keep cheering for the “Kaybar Kaybar Al Yahud / death to Israel” crowd.
ennisa22@reddit
Absolutely not true. Israel have said repeatedly that the war will not end just because the hostages are released. Stop lying.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-wont-end-war-for-deal-to-free-all-hostages-pms-aide-said-to-tell-families/
https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-799946
How many more times do you need to hear it before you stop peddling lies??
historicusXIII@reddit
Then it's not over either, because then the construction of Gaza Riviera is about to start.
ScientistRemote4481@reddit
Until Hamas releases the hostages
that's essentially what it is, that's the only reason the war started and continues in the first place.
Idrialite@reddit
Phase 2 of the ceasefire where more hostages would be released wasn't to begin until Israel withdrew all troops from Gaza, as agreed.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4
Instead, Israel reneged on the deal, did not withdraw troops, and tried to force more demands, which Hamas refused:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-ceasefire-hostages-witkoff-plan-46a639d66772915ba1ed0b43cd2728d8
If Israel wanted their hostages, they would have kept to the agreement instead of committing a terrorist attack on Palestinian civilians.
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
They've never wanted the hostages back, that much has been clear for so long, unfortunately.
Also during previous "hostage-for-prisoners (aka Palestinian hostages)" exchanges, Israel has gone ahead and captured even more Palestinians than they've released, almost right away.
Idrialite@reddit
Very hard to even keep up with all the bullshit Israel pulls... didn't know about that one.
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
Sorry, I don't have it on hand but I'll try to search for in my bookmarked articles and post them when I can find them
NeonArlecchino@reddit
Israel was offered all hostages back in return for no invasion by Oct 10 when before they also wanted hostages held by Israel returned. If this was only about hostages then none of this would have happened.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
So let's say I break into your house, kill your wife, take your daughter hostage, and demand that you agree that I won't face any consequences for killing your wife in exchange for returning your daughter... and you think that makes ME the victim when you bomb everyone and everything around me?
mydoorisfour@reddit
Do you hear yourself? What do you think Zionists have been doing to Palestinians for decades now? Do you know how many Palestinian "prisoners" (aka hostages) that Israel has had in custody well before Oct 7th?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
If israel was guilty of 1% of the genocide they're accused of, there wouldn't be any palestinians left.
mydoorisfour@reddit
I'm sure that's what you'd like so it can be over and you can stop defending the murder of children day after day
Dry-Season-522@reddit
So when Hamas does it, lol resistance fighters get wreked, but when Israel does it, "Oh woe for the poor children." Fine, send your people's soldiers to go guard their children, see how they react, I'm sure they'll be grateful and not stab you in the back at all.
mydoorisfour@reddit
There's clear historical context of decades of apartheid and oppression that lead to this. Hamas didn't just prop up and start attacking because they felt like it, or they have this deep seeded hatred of Jews with no explanation.
They have something to resist, unlike Israel who started this by taking over Palestine and oppressing the people who lived there
Dry-Season-522@reddit
So what you're saying is that if the women of the surrounding countries, who are under a gender apartheid, were to mass murder their husbands, you'd support that as 'resistance'?
mydoorisfour@reddit
The IDF has been mass murdering and imprisoning Palestinians since before Oct 7th, and at an exceptionally larger rate since then. Regardless of how hard you defend the actually ongoing mass murder of children.
If the women in countries with Sharia Law happened to kill some of their husband's while resisting and fighting for their rights, yes I would consider that resistance.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Gosh, how are there any palestinians left if they've been doing what you claim?
Oh right, because your information comes from hamas.
mydoorisfour@reddit
Thats like saying there were plenty of Jews left after the holocaust so that wouldn't be a genocide.
And yeah we get it, everyone that doesn't peddle IDF propoganda is hamas. Do you have anything else you'd like to add to your hasbara bot replies?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Except that we look at a chart of Palestinians in Gaza and... wow israel SUCKS at genocide.
mydoorisfour@reddit
Anything to help you sleep at night defending the bombing of countless children. If it's not genocide it's ethnic cleansing, it's depraved, and it's inexcusablely wrong.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
So what you're saying is that nobody should be allowed to do war if the other side has children, except for 'the oppressed' which is this quantum category that includes people who want to murder ALL the children in another country but haven't been successful at it.
mydoorisfour@reddit
Thats not what I said sorry your reading comprehension isn't all the way there. It does make sense why you peddle so much propaganda though.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
If 20 of your family members were held hostage and the rest were being blockaded and brutalised, and you had tried every legal recourse but you were facing implacable monsters, then yes.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Oh gosh, if what you were saying was true, why isn't any country willing to take them as refugees?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Great topic shift! Really smoothly done! You started with “Since when are Palestinians allowed to fight back?” and moved to “There are only millions of Palestinian refugees in other countries! Why can’t we ethnically cleanse the rest?!”
Wait, am I giving you too much credit? You did know there are millions of Palestinian refugees in other countries, right?
NeonArlecchino@reddit
So it isn't just about the hostages? Because that's what the other person claimed and what I was disproving.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
No, the land belongs to Egypt, unless you're of the mindset that if I steal your wallet, and then someone steals that wallet from me, it should be returned to me and not you.
NeonArlecchino@reddit
That's an interesting belief, but even if we take the perspective of you only leasing the house and land or were staying there because a relative owned it, does that negate any of the things I did to you?
IAMADon@reddit
Good point.
Now let's say I break into your house, kill your wife, take your home as well as hundreds of thousands of others, force you and everyone else to live as a refugee, then to do the same again to more families, and continuing to do so for decades into a continually decreasing area. And you think that makes ME the victim when you bomb everyone and everything around me.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Blame the ottoman empire.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
Bullshit. The true reason is to butcher Palestinians and ethnically cleanse them until Bibi's poll numbers go back up. The final solution to the Palestinian problem is coming
Dry-Season-522@reddit
If that was the goal, there wouldn't have been any Palestinians left by the end of October. Do you hear yourself?
BrownThunderMK@reddit
They're working on that as we speak, read the headline. What part of total food blockade is so difficult to comprehend? Theyre currently Auschwitz-ifying Gaza? Hello?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Seige warfare against those holding your people hostage, seems legitimate to me.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It seems like a war crime to every non-Zionist.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Well, you better send the war police then. Come on, send your soldiers to Gaza to "protect the people" and see how appreciative they are.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
War police? BDS. That’s the solution.
ScientistRemote4481@reddit
Israel didn't start it though, so how can he have come into something with an intention, if he didn't even start it
LanaDelHeeey@reddit
Until Hamas surrenders.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
Have fun explaining that to the families of the remaining hostages who were pleading for Phase 2 of the ceasefire. All hostages were slated to be released and now who knows because of Israel.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
HAMAS refused to provide proof of life for the rest of the hostages. THey're already dead. They even tried throwing a random body in to one of the exchanges because they couldn't get the real one.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
What you say goes against the public statements by American/Israeli intelligence.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Oh we're doing fantasy land stuff? Cool. The secret jewish space lasers are powering up.
cap123abc@reddit (OP)
I think you live in a fantasy.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-remaining-hostages-gaza-dbedb436b04fac1c790a794a4ef03853
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
Looks like the poster you provided the link to hasn't found anything to counter the link in the last 2 days so they stopped replying.
Classic.
Ala117@reddit
Only if the idf does as well.
finalattack123@reddit
The U.S. is the only country with the power to stop it. Current administration just doesn’t care.
But more importantly - the wider population doesn’t care enough either. It was very clear the Trump administration would allow this - and they won.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s important to note that the Harris administration would also have allowed this. Either way the US would support Israel’s atrocities.
CoconutGoSkrrt@reddit
I said this before on some sub, but it was Johnson and the Democrats that kept the US in Vietnam while lying about what was going on. And it was Bush and the Republicans that marched to Iraq.
Both political parties are just two sides of the same coin. No matter how much libs/conservatives or democrats/republicans hate each other, they’ll all come together and hold hands when it comes to launching mass murdering campaigns in Asia.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
Until the US permits an arms embargo / sanctions on Israel.
Which will NEVER fucking happen because Washington is the real occupied territory, forget West Bank and Gaza.
It makes me unbelievably sick that we unflinchingly support these middle eastern nazis, no number of war crimes or innocents killed will ever be enough.
-SneakySnake-@reddit
It's the other way around, I promise you. Or at least a shared convenience. Israel is very often America's catspaw in the Middle East, their unsinkable aircraft carrier.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
I know that they're a proxy / perfect excuse for the military industrial complex to steal taxpayer dollars.
It's such a great deal for Israel, you put the Palestinians in tiny camps, blockade and collectively punish them to their breaking point, and then cry terrorist terrorist! Jihad! Jihad! when they fight back to the willfully ignorant western media and politicians.
Like at this point terrorism is just the new communism excuse except instead of Viet Cong it's Hamas.
HockeyHocki@reddit
How exactly is it any of this a great deal for israel. Ballistic missiles fired at them from Iran, rockets from Lebanon and a ground incursion from Gaza.
Israel would cease to exist tomorrow were it not for that military industrial complex
BrownThunderMK@reddit
If Israel collapsed like apartheid South Africa did, the Palestinians would finally be free of the FIFTY EIGHT YEAR occupation.
Apartheid states just shouldn't exist in 2025.
HockeyHocki@reddit
I wouldn't be touting SA as any sort of success story, black south africans were far better off under apartheid than they are today, it's a borderline failed state
And in any case there is no apartheid within the state of Israel. Arabs coexist quite happily with israelis every day, they are called Arab israelis and there are over 2m of them
CoconutGoSkrrt@reddit
Wtf? Better under apartheid than today?? Holy, Western copium is one hell of a drug…
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Year, the killings and brutality and torture were better than freedom! Let’s kill and torture the Palestinians, it’s good for them!
There is very clear apartheid in the West Bank. But you knew that already.
HockeyHocki@reddit
you very clearly skipped geography, the West Bank is not in the state of Israel
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
The West Bank is occupied by Israel sets the laws there, creating one set for Israelis and one set for Palestinians. It’s crystal clear apartheid.
Naijan@reddit
The land is owned by no one and the palestinians by themselves dont want to become Israeli, and arent Israelis, therefore they dont get the protection of being Israeli.
It’s not an apartheid state.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
Didn't the British colonize and ultimately annexe North Ireland? The Israelis are actively colonizing West bank, with 700,000 settlers to prepare it for annexation, and you aren't understanding that that's what I'm talking about when I speak of apartheid?
How willfully ignorant can Zionists possibly be?
HockeyHocki@reddit
Unlike Ireland the west bank did not become a part of the occupying state, what happens there is not in the state of Israel, defacto Israel is not an apartheid state.
funny you keep using this phrase when simultaneously ignoring the 2 million arabs that actually do live equally in the state of Israel
If you want to see true seperation try beeing LGBTQ in gaza, they will happily seperate your head from your body
BrownThunderMK@reddit
it's certainly apartheid because Israel hasn't existed in its 1967 borders for decades due to the settlemsnts.
The 2 state solution itself is dead and buried due to those settlers.
Israel is a shit hole apartheid state
finalattack123@reddit
This fantasy that Israel is on the brink of extinction is ludicrous.
Israel control the living conditions of Palestinians - they are fostering the material conditions that breed terrorists.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Israel today has less territory today than it did 40 years ago
finalattack123@reddit
Your saying this to deny that they are stealing Palestinian land?
mebeast227@reddit
But AIPAC buys the politicians. We, the taxpayers, are their bitch.
The “value” is non existent to the US as it only causes more risk of future attacks and retaliation and more money on drawn out wars while Israel sits on its hands and sacrifices US troops and risks the lives of innocent civilians
Oh yeah- and Israel is clearly targeting women and children in the process to make it even more sickening
lennoco@reddit
AIPAC is not even in the top 20 lobbying groups in America. Claiming that Jews are controlling the government is classic antisemitic conspiracy shit
ScaryShadowx@reddit
The top 20 lobby groups in America are internal business groups with very little care of foreign policy. Also, that is not the only way AIPAC establishes control of the American political class.
Paid Birthright propaganda trips making sure Jewish students at top universities recognize their required allegiance to Israel. Subsidized trips to other students at elite universities to make sure they hear the one sided Israeli narrative and making sure Palestinians are ignore, [going so far as to remove people who ask questions] (https://forward.com/opinion/416545/i-was-kicked-off-birthright-for-asking-questions-about-the-occupation/). Getting people into high levels of government with AIPAC/Israeli connections, targeting the correct people, etc.
lennoco@reddit
What exactly is wrong about a private organization helping fund trips to Israel for Jews to learn about their homeland and heritage? Would you be mad if Italy did that for Italian Americans or Greece did that for Greek Americans?
You clearly are engaging in antisemitic conspiracy theories when you engage in rhetoric that Jews are controlling America and making sure Jews "swear allegiance to Israel" and then "establish control of the American political class."
It all sounds so deeply brainrotten and antisemitic.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Would you be mad if the CCP or Russia did it and carefully crafted a narrative around it to hide their activities?
Go to any elite institution, places where the next generation of people in power are coming though and see the influence there. Yes, Israel has carefully crafted a system of propaganda designed to capture current and future leaders.
Being against Israel is not being against Jews any more than being against apartheid South Africa was being against White people or being against the Nazis was being against the German people. It is another well crafted narrative that Israel has successfully pushed, especially in America, where any criticism of Israel or undue influence in politics by Israeli government and lobby groups linked to a foreign entity is labelled antisemitic, a narrative you are also pushing.
The thing is the pendulum always swings back, and I'm actually way more worried for normal Jewish people who do not have strong feelings towards Israel or think that Palestinians need to be ethnically cleansed from the area, and the melding of the Jewish and Zionist identities by Israel, as well as the undue influence and control over American politics has a real possibility to foster actual antisemitism, which is not equal to the criticism of Israel and their dehumanization of the Palestinian people.
lennoco@reddit
This post is loaded with conspiracy theories and classic antisemitic tropes disguised as political critique.
This plays into the old “Jews secretly control the world” myth. Many countries engage in lobbying, but only when it’s Israel do people frame it as sinister manipulation.
Again, this is just a rebranded version of the antisemitic trope about Jewish power. If foreign influence in U.S. politics bothers you, why are you singling out Israel and ignoring countries like China, Saudi Arabia, or Russia?
No, legitimate criticism of Israeli policies isn’t antisemitic. But spreading lies about Jewish control, comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, and using blood libel about “genocide” absolutely are.
This sounds like a veiled threat that Jews will face repercussions because of Israel’s actions. That’s dangerously close to justifying antisemitism.
Antisemitism is rising globally, and your post is part of the reason why. Dismissing Jewish concerns as a “weapon” to silence criticism is gaslighting.
You claim to worry about rising antisemitism, but instead of calling out real antisemitism, you’re reinforcing it by spreading the same narratives that have fueled hatred against Jews for centuries.
Conclusion: More antisemitic bullshit from you.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Because there is legitimate criticism of those country's influence in the US. Do you really think the treatment of Russian interference in the political sphere is given the same leeway as Israeli interference?
I compare Israeli to Nazi Germany because it is. Dehumanization, ethnic cleansing, brutalization of targeted minority groups, the list goes on. The Final Solution, was the final solution, the same restriction of rights of the Jewish people, taking of property, geographically restricting them is the same as what is happening to the Palestinian people. The antisemitism fostered by blaming the entire Jewish people and justification for the purges is exactly what we see with Israel in Palestine.
I do call out real antisemitism, which is not the criticism of Israel's genocidal policies, or their targeted control of US political institutions. Do you call people calling out Russia or the CCP influence in US politics as being against people of Russian or Chinese decent? Why are you conflating the Israeli government apparatus and the methods they use with Jewish people?
lennoco@reddit
Your response is just a string of tired talking points, completely detached from historical reality.
The difference is that “Israeli interference” is a manufactured obsession driven by antisemitic conspiracy theories, whereas Russian interference involved actual hacking, election meddling, and intelligence operations. The fact that you equate the two exposes your bias.
No, it isn’t, and the fact that you feel the need to repeat this nonsense shows how little you actually understand history. The Nazis systematically murdered six million Jews, along with millions of others, in death camps. Israel is not committing genocide—it’s fighting a war against Hamas, a terrorist group that openly calls for Jewish extermination. The comparison is not only wildly inaccurate, but it also trivializes the Holocaust. 2/3rds of Europe's Jewish population was murdered in an industrialized genocide—only now is the Jewish population reaching the level it was at pre-Holocaust. Meanwhile the Palestinian population has grown multiple times over, and less than 2% of the population of Gaza has died, and nearly half of the fatalities were militants.
The Final Solution was a plan to exterminate Jews. Not relocate, not restrict—exterminate. Palestinians are not being systematically rounded up and executed in gas chambers. This false equivalence is disgusting and antisemitic. If you actually cared about Palestinian rights, you wouldn’t need to invoke Nazi Germany—you’d focus on real historical context instead of sensationalist propaganda.
You’re literally using two of the most classic antisemitic tropes here: the blood libel that Jews (or Israel) are committing “genocide” and the idea that Jews secretly “control” governments. If you think these narratives have nothing to do with antisemitism, you need to read a history book.
No, because criticism of Russia and China doesn’t rely on centuries-old racist myths about secret control, global conspiracies, or bloodthirsty governments plotting genocide. Your entire framework for discussing Israel mirrors the exact rhetoric that has been used to justify antisemitic violence throughout history.
Your argument isn’t just misinformed—it’s willfully malicious. You’re using the language of anti-Zionism as a smokescreen for spreading deeply antisemitic tropes, and you’re either too ignorant to realize it or too dishonest to admit it.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
You are just using the same line Zionists use. Jewish people suffered in the past, so they are exempt from any criticism of their actions, including ethnic cleansing and genocide. No they are not. The Russians suffered from historic European invasions in the past, so we shouldn't criticize their invasion of Ukraine? China was invaded by Europe, so we can't criticize plans of expansion?
We absolutely should acknowledged that and recognize what led to it and make sure it doesn't happen again to anyone. "Never Again" should mean never again for all peoples, not just "Never Again for Jewish people". Being a group that has suffered and has had antisemitic rhetoric used in the past doesn't give carte blanche.
Would you be fine with the carpet bombing, the dead children, the ethnic cleansing if it was the CCP doing it to the Uyghur or Taiwanese people? Would you be ok with Russia doing this in Ukraine or Georgia? Why are you ok with it when Israel does it? Some people worth more than others?
lennoco@reddit
Israel has been getting attacked for decades by the Palestinians. Israel has offered numerous two state solutions to the Palestinians, that they have refused, because they don't want their own state—they want to destroy Israel.
They've willingly sacrificed their lives and their children's futures in this futile attempt to destroy the world's one Jewish state—a state that holds nearly all of the Jews ethnically cleansed from the Middle East, after over a thousand years of those Arab majorities persecuting them, treating them as second class citizens legally, stealing their holiest sites, and occasionally massacring them.
I have not said you cannot criticize Israel for specific policies or actions. However, you are repeatedly engaging in outright antisemitic rhetoric about Jews controlling America, engaging in Holocaust reversal against Jews when it's laughably inaccurate, and making blood libel claims that are woefully ignorant and misinformed.
At the end of the day, you're yet another antisemite who thinks he's on the right side of history.
rowida_00@reddit
Are you really going to sit there and peddle these egregious lies and expect no one to call you out? What “every 2 state solution” are you even talking about? When did Israel offer Palestinians what constitutes as occupied Palestinian Territories in their entirety, in accordance to international law? Remember the illegal occupation? Remember the apartheid? Or even the genocide! The level of power and influence AIPAC wields over American foreign policy is rather unequivocal. Like, how is this a conspiracy theory? You paint everything that doesn’t augment your rhetoric as “antisemitic”. Factual evidence is antisemitic apparently.
lennoco@reddit
You're throwing around terms like "occupation" and "apartheid" without understanding history.
Before 1967, the West Bank was controlled by Jordan, and Gaza was controlled by Egypt after they both invaded in 1948—neither allowed an independent Palestinian state. Israel took these areas in a defensive war after being attacked, and since Jordan's prior claim to the West Bank was never internationally recognized, the land became disputed rather than legally occupied. In 1988, Jordan officially renounced its claim to the West Bank, leaving no prior sovereign to whom the land could be "returned," which is why international law classifies it as disputed rather than occupied in the traditional sense. The situation is far more complex than the simplistic slogans you're repeating.
In 2000, Israel offered the Palestinians a state on nearly all of Gaza and the West Bank, with East Jerusalem as its capital. Arafat walked away without a counteroffer and launched the Second Intifada instead. That’s not the action of someone seeking peace.
As for AIPAC, it’s a lobbying group like many others—singling it out as some sinister controlling force is veering into conspiracy nonsense. If you want to have a real conversation, drop the conspiratorial nonsense and engage with reality.
rowida_00@reddit
If you’re going to deny the unlawful occupation, in accordance to the ruling of the ICJ, you have to do better than claiming prior to 1967 the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian control and the West Bank was under Jordanian control. Neither countries annexed these territories. And in 1988, Jordan formally relinquished its claim to the West Bank in favor of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), not Israel. And non of that negates the fact that the stipulations of international law are rather unambiguous, the West Bank and Gaza are under an illegal Israeli occupation. That’s not my slogan. It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. 147 countries recognize the Palestinian state with those borders. The entire world agrees. These aren’t “disputed lands”. The legal status of those territories is occupied territories. Asking people to ignore international law to listen to random Zionists is a preposterous suggestion.
What was actually offered the Palestinians in 2022;
So stop with this unrelenting nonsense about the so-called countless peace offers made which don’t even adhere to the stipulations of international law! I’ve never seen people normalize lies as much as Zionists. It’s like plague.
As for AIPAC, this is rather indisputable. Like, even your denialism is rather untenable.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
Holy shit the instantaneous racism accusation. No one cares bro. Fuck Israel
advillious@reddit
nobody is saying they control the world. but they clearly control america and anyone who denies it is willfully ignorant.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Ah yes, the "Israel secretly controls the world" and yet gets attacked on a regular basis conspiracy.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
The definitely have outsized influence with the imperial powers.
The difference between Israel and Nazi Germany is that we fought the Germans. In this case our government is unflinchingly supporting and enabling the Israeli genocide.
Maybe in 80 years once every Palestinian is dead or expelled the Israelis will become tree huggers like the Germans. But I doubt it
modianoyyo@reddit
sorry but if you are against the bombing of women and children then you are a raging anti-semite
apndrew@reddit
Isn’t it amazing that Hamas is the only entity on earth that after an attack, knows the exact age, gender and identify of every victim of the attack. The rest of the world takes weeks, months and sometimes years to get it correct but Hamas knows within minutes. Astounding.
rattleandhum@reddit
jesus christ man... the hasbara is weak...
ODHH@reddit
There are no people on earth more equipped to handle mass civilian death tolls via bombings than the Palestinians of Gaza.
Also the Gazan health ministry was trained by the US and other western countries to be very accurate when counting bodies. Of course, that’s when there are bodies left and not just bags of human meat.
apndrew@reddit
There are no people on earth more experienced?
Completely ignores Ukraine, Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan which had magnitudes greater amounts of civilian casualties. Literally every recent conflict on earth has had multiple times more casualties than in Gaza.
ODHH@reddit
Israel has been bombing Gaza regularly since 2005.
apndrew@reddit
What do you expect when the Arabs in the region have been attempting to genocide the neighboring Jewish population for literally hundreds of years (and they were actually successful on 10/7) all the way back to the 1500s.
https://www.fondapol.org/en/study/pogroms-in-palestine-before-the-creation-of-the-state-of-israel-1830-1948/
ODHH@reddit
Lmao no one cares about your fake history bro
Idrialite@reddit
???
Not that hard for a hospital who imminently receives dead bodies from an attack to identify them. No shit they can get it done faster than other world agencies who aren't directly receiving the dead bodies.
apndrew@reddit
Attack any other country or entity and it takes months to count the dead. Attack Hamas and they immediately know all the stats.
Dramatical45@reddit
It tends to be estimates. You know relatively how many people are in a building. If said building is flattened they assume then that those number of people are dead. It's not that difficult in a small centralized area like Gaza. This case you are whining about is a doctor receiving dead bodies which is then by default easy to count.
It is likely that the death count is far higher as estimates are off and there are likely thousands more buried in the rubble of what is left of Gaza.
Idrialite@reddit
Maybe in other cases, I don't know. But you were referring to a specific hospital reporting a specific number of bodies they received and identifying their demographic.
Pklnt@reddit
It's not that hard to make an estimate.
If I bomb your house, authorities will ask your neighbors how many persons used to live in this house.
You now have an estimate, then you try to clear the rubble and recover the bodies, then you have your real estimate.
It doesn't take years.
Pklnt@reddit
I genuinely wonder what this person thinks when Ukraine reports X death hours after a Russian strike on a building.
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
Probably "Ukrainian Nazis aren't a trustworthy source" and "Ukraine shouldn't have started the war by shelling Donbass".
juiceboxheero@reddit
Isn't it amazing how ANY civilian deaths are justified just because a Zionist doesn't like the source?
flastenecky_hater@reddit
That reminds me of that hospital supporters of Hamas refuse to speak of when Ministry of Health (well, technically it's Hamas anyway) shortly after the attack (which was practically their own doing) already finished the counting and claimed 500 people died there.
Hamas is known to overblown the numbers of victims, labelling terrorist as civilians and basically exaggerating everything.
Unfortunately, there's no way to confirm anything.
_Discolimonade@reddit
I’m amazed at your reading comprehension. Nowhere does it says Hamas. It says “The European Hospital in the southern city of Rafah said it received 36 bodies…”
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Hey, everyone who has been killed in this conflict on the Palestinian side was wearing the hamas battle uniform, so they were legitimate targets under the rules of war.
vargyg@reddit
Until we take action to stop it.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
I like how the pro-Hamas crowd is discovering for the very first time that if you start a war with another country and then refuse to surrender, you don't get to stop the war by crying "No fair, you have to stop now because we said so!"
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Just like the jews in warsaw shouldn't have attacked the wehrmacht
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Imagine loving Hamas so much that you try to morally equate Hamas with those who fought Nazi Germany.
mga92@reddit
No difference between Nazi Germany and pissrael
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
I always find it funny how folks will give Israel or the Russians a childish nickname to demean them, but the Nazis are still Nazi Germany. Strange double standard.
CoconutGoSkrrt@reddit
On Oct 06, 2023, Israel was in an offensive position and in violation of the 1967 Oslo accords. The people at the Nova rave were also there illegally according to international law. I don’t think they “deserved” what happened to them. But if Israel says that Hamas is everywhere, even under bakeries and hospitals. Then maybe don’t make yourself an illegal immigrant in a land your government tells you is dangerous? Because no one here needs to be convinced that Nazis were bad.
However, ppl still need to be convinced that headshotting women sheltering in a church, bombing refugee camps, breaking medical equipment in hospital raids, and stealing women’s underwear is a bad thing.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
You’re right. Hamas and those who fought Nazi Germany are not equal…
Hamas is much more justified and moral. The people who fought Nazi germany didn’t gaf about nazism and racism, they only struck when Nazi Germany got too confident and thought it could take over Europe
lennoco@reddit
Hamas is a Palestinian nationalist terrorist group who wants to genocide the global Jewish population, and kills gay people and oppresses minorities.
There is something seriously rotten in you if you somehow think Hamas are “justified and moral.”
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Terrorism is when my victim fights back instead of laying on the floor and dying /s
lennoco@reddit
Palestinians have repeatedly been the instigator of violence, waging an endless campaign to destroy Israel in the misguided idea that throwing their lives and children’s futures away will eventually lead to Israel’s destruction.
They have never once demonstrated a commitment to peace, and they will continue to destroy their own lives due to their obsession with destroying Israel.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
lalalalala, I can’t hear you
Hike your knuckle dragging ass back to Europe. Leave Palestinians alone. If you don’t want to do that, you have no right to bitch or cry about how they choose to react to being ethnically cleansed
lennoco@reddit
The vast majority of Jews in Israel never lived in Europe. Most Jews in Israel are descended from the nearly 1 million Jews who were ethnically cleansed from the Middle Eastern states, who had lived there continuously for thousands of years, and under Muslim rule, were treated legally as second class citizens who were regularly humiliated, degraded, and could be massacred without recourse.
And as for the so-called European Jews, they're actually originally from Israel, from which they were expelled by colonizers.
You need to actually educate yourself on this.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Meh meh meh meh meh
lennoco@reddit
Yeah, I can tell literacy and learning facts is not your strong suit.
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
"Everyone i disagree with is actually illiterate"
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
Hamas is a resistance to a brutal military occupation. That's perfectly legitimate.
Zipz@reddit
Weird
Hamas attacks civilians.
The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto uprising did not.
It’s weird how you think that’s comparable.
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
Hamas attacks civilians, yes, in response to massive attacks on civilians by Israel, ongoing for decades.
For instance, the attack of October 7th killed about 1200 Israelis. The attacks which Israel launched in 2008/9 killed about the same amount of Palestinians in Gaza. And that was considered a small war.
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
About 500 of which were Hamas
Ala117@reddit
"Every Palestinian is khamas"
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
I wonder, did I say that?
Ala117@reddit
Yes.
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
I don't think I did, I'm pretty sure I'd know if I did
Ala117@reddit
Read your comments again then, especially the "500 are khamas" comment.
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
Well, first of all, I didn't say 500 are khamas, I said 500 are hamas, Second of all, last time i remembered there are more than 500 Palestinians in the Gaza strip, thus implying that- I didn't say all Palestinians were Hamas
Ala117@reddit
Exactly, you assume every dead Palestinian is Hamas.
Yet
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
I didn't say every dead Palestinian was Hamas. Now my english isn't the greatest, but can you read English? The person above said that the same amount of Gazans died in the Gaza War as oct 7, about 500 which was Hamas. Now if you know math, you know that 500 does not equal 1,200; 500 is a less number than 500, in fact 500 is a little less than half of 1,200
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
Yes even the proportion of "military" to civilian killed was about the same.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
I don't know about the jews in the Warsaw ghetto specifically, but various anti nazi resistance groups did in fact often kill civilians, both intentionally and unintentionally, through indiscriminate acts of terror, hostage takings, and summary executions of suspected collaborators. Also, the rhetoric used by zionists to justify their atrocities is strikingly similar to nazi propaganda. The comparison is fair.
Zipz@reddit
But that’s the thing it wasn’t compared to those other comparisons. It was compared to the Warsaw uprising. Where Jews only killed about a dozen nazi guards.
BrazilianTomato@reddit
Well, i am making the comparison. How do you respond? Were these acts of resistance legitimate or not?
Zipz@reddit
You are making a very broad statement. It matters on each situation. Just because someone is resisting doesn’t justify war crimes.
Thevoidawaits_u@reddit
What's view point do you need to have in order to think that these are analogues?
Imaginary-Chain5714@reddit
I don’t remember Jews in the Warsaw ghetto having access to phones, cars, being one of the largest recipients of humanitarian aid, having rockets, guns, machine guns, foreign fundings, military wings, being able to fly to Qatar,
I don’t remember Jews entering Germany and raping and killing German civilians
TheLegend1827@reddit
The Jews in Warsaw started the war?
meister2983@reddit
They were going to die regardless though. Genocide is a poor deterrent.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
What you meant to say is “might is right”. Because Israel is able to beat its neighbours, it can, and face no consequences when it does so. Like with the Nakba or the 6 day war. Instead they put together a narrative that they were the victims and they were just defending themselves against the Arabs who wanted to destroy them. All of that is a fiction. But somehow Zionists convinced much of the world that it’s what happened.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Pop quiz: what happened on May 15, 1948?
CwazyCanuck@reddit
The Arab league intervened in Palestine after the British mandate ended and there was no government to stop Zionists from continuing to ethnically cleanse Arab villages. By May 15, 1948, Zionists had already depopulated and destroyed over 200 villages.
The Arab League communicated their intent to the UN. And their actions support this, they primarily positioned forces in the areas that were assigned to the Arabs by the UN partition plan and sent other forces to stop Zionists from further ethnic cleansing.
Meanwhile, most of that conflict the Arabs were on the defensive and Zionists refused attempts at peace negotiations because they knew they could take more territory. It’s one of the reasons Lehi assassinated Count Bernadotte, who was the assigned UN mediator whose position was established May 14, 1948, as per UNGA resolution 186 (s-2).
Also on May 14, 1948, Zionists met in secret to declare their independence, which would take effect at midnight. However, just as sovereign citizens don’t have their own country just because they declare it, Israel was not a country until it was widely recognized by the international community. The US and UN didn’t give Israel full recognition until 1949.
What’s your counter argument? The Azzam Pasha quote?
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
This is a funny way of saying "started a genocidal war of aggression against Israel"
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Like I said, it’s all a fiction, Israel is the victim, the Arabs were going to commit genocide. Lies are ok if it’s to support the Zionist cause, right?
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
It's not a fiction that the Arab league attacked Israel. You admit that obvious reality yourself.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
They intervened. And attacked Zionist forces to stop them from ethnically cleansing Palestinians, which they didn’t do a good job of stopping.
If not for the intervention of the Arab League, Zionists would have ethnically cleansed and occupied all of Palestine. Yigal Allon, one of the leaders of the Palmach, admitted this:
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Yes. They started a war. Correct.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
A war was already raging, although it appears it was more of a massacre than a war. The Arab league would have intervened earlier, but that would have entered the grey area of declaring war on Britain as the mandate was still active.
It’s like claiming the US started WW2 because they entered mid conflict. Germany never attacked the US. The US entered the war against Germany in support of its allies. Which is exactly what the Arab League did.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
You sure love coming up with excuses to justify Arab violence. Because obviously, mass violence is always very righteous and justified when YOU do it.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
No excuses are needed to justify Arab violence when that Arab violence amounts to intervening in a conflict where one side is ethnically cleansing the other.
This is literally the standard view of Zionists for just about every conflict Israel is in. Unless they choose to deny involvement because it can’t be justified, like the Qibya massacre.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
"Arab violence good. Arab violence righteous. The master race can do no wrong."
How incredibly predictable.
AnUninformedLLama@reddit
Civil war broke out in mandatory Palestine well before the Arab intervention. But that dosent suit your little zionazi narrative does it?
Ala117@reddit
Ethnic cleansing and terrorism by zionist terrorists.
AnUninformedLLama@reddit
The war was started by the Zionazis actually
Idrialite@reddit
If you don't understand the situation, don't comment. "Refusal to surrender" doesn't even apply here.
Israel and Hamas both agreed to a ceasfire plan to slowly de-escalate. Phase 2 would have involved Israel withdrawing all troops from Gaza before another hostage/prisoner exchange.
Israel changed their minds and demanded more, and Hamas refused. Israel decided to commit a terrorist attack on civilians in response.
Peace was in sight... the Israeli hostages could've been released, Gaza could have been de-occupied, and the tortured Palestinian "prisoners" held without charge could've been released.
meister2983@reddit
Has Israel ever taken the position Hamas didn't need to disarm?
My sense is the deal was rammed though negotiations with ambiguous language, but has Israel not been consistent here?
ijzerwater@reddit
in negotiations its give and take. It seems the Israel model is take and take.
meister2983@reddit
There's really nothing to "negotiate" other than to appease the US administration and domestic audiences. With the power dynamics they are (more extreme than when the Allies fought the Axis in 1944), the terms are "surrender or die".
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
Indeed, but that would require Israel to sign a ceasefire, which would imply that they "lost" the war. They can't accept that.
Idrialite@reddit
They already did sign a cease-fire, they just backed out:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-ceasefire-hostages-witkoff-plan-46a639d66772915ba1ed0b43cd2728d8
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
Yes, then they violated the ceasefire continuously, in all kinds of ways, until they just obliterated it with this recent attack.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Correct. Hamas refused a ceasefire, and that's why the war is still continuing.
Idrialite@reddit
I'm not sure I agree that Hamas giving in to Israel's new demands would have ended the war. Israel offered a ceasfire extension and to "negotiate lasting peace". If Hamas loses their hostage leverage, this negotiation probably would not go very well. Even if outright war ends and Hamas submits, we would be in the exact same situation as before: Israel occupying, committing human rights abuses, and settling Gaza.
Who's to say violent resistance wouldn't spring up again? Even if it didn't, it would still clearly be a morally abhorrent situation.
But even granting that "Hamas's refusal continued the war", you can attribute the exact same symmetrical responsibility to Israel who reneged on the existing ceasfire deal and played hardball themselves. In fact, I have no doubt they never even expected Hamas to agree to the new terms and already planned to commit this attack.
If Israel wanted their hostages, they would have kept to the plan. They're clearly after something else, and it isn't the annihilation of Hamas: why target civilians?
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Palestine is free to accept a ceasefire at literally any time. The fact that they still haven't done so proves that they don't want peace.
If Palestine want peace, they should prove it by immediately agreeing to a ceasefire.
Idrialite@reddit
Seeing your comment history, you always act like this... tons of activity, too. Honestly intellectually pathetic to spend your time spreading propaganda everywhere without trying to even engage in real discussions.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
Anything to distract away from the fact that Palestinians refuse to accept a ceasefire I suppose.
Idrialite@reddit
Act like you can read my mind if you want. I'm telling you I'm not engaging with your bait.
Fermented_Fartblast@reddit
You're not engaging with the reality that Palestinians still refuse to accept a ceasefire because that reality does not fit your "Palestinians just want peace" narrative.
If you want peace, accept the ceasefire.
Ala117@reddit
Username checks out.
Siman421@reddit
Every single person here is missing a key point about why the war restarted.
The Israeli government is expected to vote next week on a budget, and the vote would've failed since Ben gvir left the government. The vote failing would mean the government collapses and Israel goes to elections, and Bibi wants to avoid this so he can keep his seat. He knew that if he went back to war, Ben gvir would rejoin the coalition and vote for the budget, thus securing the existence of the government for a few more years.
That's the sole reason the war restarted, so Bibi doesn't have to leave his seat and he can retain power. He's a scumbag, but no this isn't about Israel just wanting to kill people, it's about politics.
rattleandhum@reddit
thats worse.
Siman421@reddit
I'm not here to say whether it's better or worse, I'm here to say that it's not about killing people, basically restoring any genocidal intent claims.
suitorarmorfan@reddit
Israelis are actually happy they get to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. If they were, they wouldn’t have started this extermination campaign in the first place.
Siman421@reddit
And you know this how? Because polls show the majority of Israelis don't want the war to continue. Israelis didn't start anything, Hamas did.
suitorarmorfan@reddit
You’re either an Hasbara bot or brainwashed. No one is buying your bullshit
rattleandhum@reddit
Again, anything to underplay these crimes. Sickening sycophantic preening.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
This is about Israeli politicians mass murdering children for political purposes.
Siman421@reddit
You don't seem to understand the meaning of the words mass murder.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Is this the set of instructions from hasbara central today? Demand definitions for common terms?
Siman421@reddit
given the misuse of these terms, ya, it seems definitions do matter.
suitorarmorfan@reddit
“Well, it’s technicalyyyyy not genocide” are you serious? I don’t think you realize how disgusting this sounds. But then again, that’s Hasbara for ya
Siman421@reddit
Say that to the ICC, the ones who said they want to say it's a genocide, but can't.
HazRi27@reddit
Which is worse tbh? Imagine being this selfish as a person that you’d rather have thousands upon thousands of people die just to stay in power and not lose your job. And it’s not like he’ll be living on social welfare if he loses it.
Siman421@reddit
I'm not saying one is better, I'm saying the motivation isnt killing, it's political power. Specifically this retorts any genocidal intent.
LEFT4Sp00ning@reddit
Does it really? You can want to do something for multiple reasons, this doesn't simply erase all the genocidal statements by members of Israel's government. If anything it adds another motivation to do this shit, it doesn't refute genocidal intent
Siman421@reddit
Genocide requires intent. He doesn't intend to kill anyone, he intends to stay in power. It Inherently refutes genocidal intent, by the fact that the intent here is 100% political.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
He’s carpet bombing Gaza to get a politician back on side that is openly expressing genocidal intent - Ben Gvir. So it’s obviously genocidal killing. The genocide is the whole point.
Siman421@reddit
I'm not sure you know what carpet bombing actually is.
And if the point is politics, and not killing, it's inherently not genocidal, per definition of genocide (which requires intent)
Agree or don't, but facts are facts.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Piffle.
I don’t realise that mass murdering tens of thousands or more was ok if it’s politically driven! Nazis everywhere rejoice! B ‘cause it means the Holocaust was ok!
If you had some you would share them…
Siman421@reddit
im not saying its ok , im saying its not genocidal sinmce the intent to kill isnt there.
i never implied it was ok, and its not ok, its just noit genocidal per definition.
LEFT4Sp00ning@reddit
It doesn't refute any of the previously genocidal statements by members of the Knesset nor is Israel going soft on its current attacks (In fact they're going harder than ever). This doesn't disprove anything, it adds another motivation. Not only does he get to either ethnically cleanse the land/genocide Palestinians and continue Israel's colonial settler ambitions, he also gets to hold power and avoid being tossed in jail
Siman421@reddit
People are stating that the return to war is genocidal, I'm showing it's not.
And yes we have extremists idiots who speak in public, and yet they have no power over the military.
Besides the west bank (which we should leave and I disagree with Israel being there) there is no colonial intent, that's the fucking point.
It's 100% politically motivated, nothing more.
Agree or not, that is fact.
LEFT4Sp00ning@reddit
Whatever lets you sleep at night
Siman421@reddit
The truth does help me sleep at night
BrownThunderMK@reddit
So your best defense against the genocide accusations is that Netanyahu didnt twirl his moustache around like a supervillain before announcing the final solution to the Palestinian problem into a megaphone.
I find these debates about intent to be utterly asinine and absurd, they don't fucking mean anything, I don't need the ICJ to give a verdict in 10 years after every Palestinian and Gaza is dead or buried, that a genocide did or did not occur WHEN WE HAVE EYEBALLS
Siman421@reddit
My best defense against genocide is that the ICC specifically said they can't rule this situation as a genocide, despite wanting to.
My point here is that bibis motivations aren't genocidal, they are political.
ODHH@reddit
Netanyahu was also due back in court the day he resumed the bombings.
Siman421@reddit
Hes still going to court, but the government collapsing would make him lose his power, and would guarantee his eventual arrest. He wants to avoid this at all costs.
Saloninus2@reddit
Today ABC news reports that Israel dropped leaflets in Gaza saying:
It's clear enough that what is happening is not a simple massacre of civilians; people are used to that, and will not mind very much. I think Israel has grown tired of the Palestinian Problem, and in Trump's support of ethnic cleansing have found their much longed after enabler. Except that plan will not work, because Egypt and Jordan will never accept. So we will have Israel occupying the West Bank and Gaza, building as many settlements as they like; Palestinians live there, and yet cannot be given citizenship in order to maintain Jewish majority. But Israel cannot build settlements while these pesky Palestinians live, so what is the answer? Hint: It begins with a G.
Personally I hope they try to forcibly relocate the Palestinians to Egypt and Jordan. There is a larger chance of the Arab states interfering then. If Israel turns to genocide I don't think the leaders of any Arab country will care.
I wonder how the Americans will react if Israel's answer is genocide. Assuming that Trump doesn't turn their country into shambles, then I think they will be speaking about it a little regretfully, with the bipartisan response perhaps being: Too bad what happened to the poor Palestinians, but Israel has the right to defend itself.
karateguzman@reddit
So fucked up
meister2983@reddit
They have no ability to do this. Forced displacement is an empty threat due to lack of receiving countries, but they are using the fact that the US POTUS supports it to place intense psychological pressure on the civilians.
What is credible is that Israel can be more permissive in use of force than they were under Biden.
Be interesting to see the calculations that went into these flyers. The whole cost of IHL violations around threats of collecting punishment is probably seen as roughly zero at this point. I can only assume the military decided this is more likely to break the population's will in supporting militant groups than further cause them to join up.
Stubbs94@reddit
"if Israel turns to genocide"? They already have mate.
Private_HughMan@reddit
That is absolutely evil.
Green_Space729@reddit
Absolute blatant lies. The deal was to be down In multiple phase so the hostages would be returned and Israel stopped the killing. Israel refused the hostage by breaking the deal and begin its genocidal campaign.
https://youtu.be/ede80cWlf8c?si=Qhlu7HI0XnLQ0kfj
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
Maintainer | Creator | Source Code
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Hi empleadoEstatalBot,
We've found 49 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:
Haaretz (Left): "Israeli strikes in Gaza kill 71 overnight, Palestinian medics say"
RTÉ (Center): "At least 37 killed in latest Gaza strikes - authorities"
読売新聞オンライン (Leans Right): "Israeli Strikes Across Gaza Hit Homes and Kill at Least 40, According to Hospitals"
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