Is it rude or awkward to share culture in America?
Posted by YuShaohan120393@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 354 comments
After years of exposure to US media, sometimes I see stuff being called out for appropriation, which I'm not sure if I understand.
Like if an East Asian is seen with braids, dreadlocks or rows, there is often ire around it.
In my experiences, my ex's siblings (who are Black) even gave me shit for using words like y'all or enjoying Hip Hop, whereas I would have found it lovely if they tried to adopt Filipino culture.
A few specific but general examples I recall are videos of a black girl wearing a kimono, a white guy wearing a sombrero & poncho, and a white girl with South Asian attire, & the people that are always telling them off are Americans, whereas the people defending them are usually from the culture they're "appropriating".
mruhkrAbZ@reddit
From my observation, this criticism of cultural appropriation is usually coming from very out of touch upper middle class people, or from people who subscribe to this same upper middle class culture despite not having money themselves.
Strict-Farmer904@reddit
I’m a white guy so I’ll preface this by saying I don’t think I know shit about shit. I don’t imagine that I speak for literally anybody (white dudes included) but this is just my general read on the situation and my general memories that contribute to that read.
The best explanation I can give as to why cultural appropriation is such a difficult issue in America is that black people in this country have a unique history of degradation and mockery in very mainstream culture. Things like stand-up comedy and magic shows and live band performances in the United States all have a shared history with the confusingly popular minstrel shows of the pre-war era. Minstrel shows for some perplexing reason adopted at every level of performance a propensity for dressing as and mocking an entire and specific group of people. While other groups have been oppressed in the United States (if I’m being honest most groups) and have been misrepresented and mocked in our culture, I think it’s fair to say that no other ethnic group save perhaps Native Americans has had their dehumanization by way of appropriation made into so successful a form of entertainment for people cheering on said dehumanization. People were othered for their appearance and their appearance was used as a humorous costume. Outside the minstrel shows, this othering was exemplified by the story of the African-born Ota Benga, a Congolese man who was kept in the Orangutan enclosure at the Bronx zoo. This was as recently as 1906. That may be a long time ago but I knew people who were alive then. That’s beyond fucked up.
Extending into the 20th century, lot of traditionally black hairstyles have what amounts to a political history associated with them as well. Black people had been officially (and still are to this day unofficially in some social ways) discouraged from wearing their hair in natural styles. Within my lifetime I’ve seen employers discourage the wearing of cornrows, Afros, or dreadlocks for example as “Unprofessional.” So whether or not I’m personally offended to see a white person in corn rows, I think at very least I could understand why somebody would be offended by it. To invert the scenario, I could imagine if I’d spent most of my life told I need to get a perm otherwise I was unprofessional or not classy only to see my straight hair come into fashion, I might be resentful of that. It’s this part of somebody’s uncomfortable history and now it just becomes a fashion statement.
And so because of this long history of oppressing people and the collective cultural shame that comes along with it, I think a lot of us are really sensitive to that. Right or wrong, I think a lot of white Americans (and possibly a majority but who the fuck knows anymore) feel like we see the way some of our ancestors or forebears handled it and we’re like “Yeah. That’s really fucked up. Maybe we should chill on the Halloween costumes for a generation or so”
A couple footnotes:
Potential_Paper_1234@reddit
I don’t know anyone who wastes time caring about stuff like this.
DistinctJob7494@reddit
Depends on the area. Some people are pretty interested in other people's cultures.
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
I’ve only seen/heard someone complain about shit like this once in real life. It was an Asian dude whining about a white guy with dreads. He (white guy) was an employee of the restaurant we were in. Super weird because that’s a very common hippie look too.
Master-Collection488@reddit
A lot of it is centered on how you do it. No Hawaiian is going to care if you wear an aloha shirt. Mainlanders have been wearing the things since at least the early 60s (if not earlier).
Wearing Native American traditional apparel will tend to get you the side-eye, simply because of how much terrible "redface" has happened over the decades. Generally ACTUAL Native Americans tend to just wear that stuff at tribal ceremonies and pow-wows anyway. Having a mohawk haircut is fine,
Having elements of another culture is usually fine with most people. Nobody really cares if you say "y'all." The word "y'all" is just as common with southern whites as it is with Blacks. Hint: The Black folks up North, out West and in the Midwest generally got there by way of the South. During the "Jim Crow" era, a lot of Black folks migrated North for job opportunities and to get to a place where things were at least a bit less-unequal. With them came "y'all," and what's called "Soul Food" is pretty much southern eats.
StabbyBoo@reddit
In fact "y'all" is the superior greeting as it addresses all people equally, DAGNABBIT.
SpacemanSpears@reddit
Eh, I get where you're coming from but a lot of people, myself included, would take issue with saying "'Soul Food' is pretty much southern eats."
They're obviously related and share a lot of ingredients but soul food is it's own thing (compare the Chick-fil-A sandwich to Popeye's, both are fried chicken sandwiches but they're very different experiences). It has its own parallel history in regards to southern cuisine so there is a lot of overlap, but that parallel history carries a lot of meaning and baggage today.
Take chitlins, for example. Does anybody actually like chitlins? Not really, it's an acquired taste and that's being generous. But it's become symbolic of Black struggle, kind of like matzo at Seder. Eating it is often somewhat performative. Nobody is gonna stop a white guy from eating chitlins but they might have some questions and judgments that they wouldn't have if he were Black. And if that same white guy were to open up a chitlin joint, he's gonna have a hard time convincing people he's sincere about it. It can absolutely be done but it's gonna be much harder for him to gain acceptance.
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
There's also the regional difference though. Its why I hate it when we discuss the south as a monolith.
There's a discussion to be had about the overlap of soul food and cajun food in south louisiana, the latter definitely not having racial delineation lines.
From a few searches online chitlins don't seem all that different than boudin and I *love* boudin. The origin of lots if not all of cajun dishes comes from a place of isolation combined with poverty. Important distinction, I'm obviously not talking about New Orleans cuisine here which we typically tend to describe as Creole (and is VERY different). We're talking bayou/prarie cajun dishes that originated far out away from any semblance of civilization.
Now I'm not sitting here trying to say cajuns of primarily european descent had the same experience as their african descent cousins in south louisiana (and yes, we truly are all related), I just feel like the culinary overlap is way closer than maybe in other places.
Obviously, the greater discussion should always be done with the greatest amount of respect of the other cultures involved as possible and acknowledgement of differences and my hope is that when done in that way, we're all better for it. Cross cultural influences is rarely a bad thing so long as trauma isn't being inflicted to force assimilation or change or on the other side and as you mentioned its done in a way to make fun of.
SpacemanSpears@reddit
True, I'm definitely coming from an SC perspective where I'm a few miles away from the most important slave market in US history. But yeah, these distinctions carry a lot of weight for people in these communities, even if they don't mean much to the people outside these regions. I'm certainly not saying avoid mixing at all, just that it's important to be aware of the social context and that what's ok can vary from group to group.
As for boudin vs chitlins, boudin is typically about what's stuffed inside the intestines while chitlins is the intestines themselves. And if we're just talking boudin balls, then there's no intestine at all. For me personally, the less intestine the better. Boudin balls are better than boudin which is much much much better than chitlins.
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
Pan fried boudin links that have given the boudin a chance to crisp on the outside is amazing. Boiled boudin where the intestines doesn't break easily, yeah ... no - the casing isn't gonna get eaten then and its basically just a container/vessel of sorts. As far as boudin balls? Totally different creature. Its like comparing fried okra and stewed okra.
As far as mixing I agree but we also have to remember there are a lot of foods that you just don't get without mixing. You straight up don't get boudin, especially blood boudin without the german influences in South Louisiana.
I read that chitlins were filled with "mincemeat" and I made a logic jump that that was standard, if its not then yeah, my comparison doesn't make much sense.
DistributionNorth410@reddit
The closest thing to chitlins is probably the older version of making andouille. Which was intestines stuffed into intestines stuffed into intestines.
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
I guess I mean more in the context of most casings for boudin still being made of intestines (as far as I know....) but your point is valid. I really don't know much about chitlins either way when I looked them up the internet said there were stuffed with mincemeat so I just made the logic jump to boudin.
Cracklins are another story tho. Especially the chicken ones we can get at home. Still haven't found that in TN yet. om nom nom nom
DistributionNorth410@reddit
Closest I've had to chitlins is menudo, boudin skin, and Chaudin. Love the stomach part of a Chauvin more than the ground meat. Have never had the old andouille. Just heard old folks talk about it and seen pictures online posted by people that still make it.
My first stop when I'm back in louisiana is Best Stop for a pound of gratons and a schlizts tallboy.
bibliok@reddit
My dad grew up in a very poor white family in NC and ate chitlins. We were recently talking about how his mom always made them and, yeah, he didn't like it.
I was confused when I first realized that so much southern cuisine was considered African American cuisine, because it was all food that my dad grew up eating and food that my aunt would often make for family gatherings. My dad feels way more comfortable in a soul food joint in Chicago than anywhere else I take him in the city.
I understand the culture around the history of the cuisine now-and it's African roots-but I'm assuming it was also the food of poverty in the area. And it's still just my dad's food to me. Never had chitlins though....
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
Being from the south, it never even occurred to me that anyone would see y'all as racial until this very moment. Yeah, *everyone* says y'all here. Except for cousin who has lived significant amounts of time in both Louisiana / Texas and California. She says Y'all guys. She's weird though :P
IlllIlIlIIIlIlIlllI@reddit
“Y’all” isn’t racial.
Enough_Equivalent379@reddit
I particularly like "All Y'all " Kinda like a super plural. Y'all can apply to 1 as well as more than 1. But all y'all definitely applies to at least 3. 😊
IlllIlIlIIIlIlIlllI@reddit
“All y’all” means “each and every one of you”.
“Y’all fucked up” is condemning the audience as a group. “All y’all fucked up” makes it clear that there are no exceptions.
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
100% lol
yesthatshisrealname@reddit
I always thought y'all guys was more yat because that's who I've heard say the way.
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
I mean not all of louisiana is new orleans lol
yesthatshisrealname@reddit
Oh you don't have to tell me not all of Louisiana is new. The number of people that thought Ponchatoulas was just a mediocre restaurant and not an actual town the restaurant was named after had me dying. Or when somebody try to tell me Montpelier was said with a French accent. And this was just North Louisiana.
You mentioned that your cousin said y'all guys and I just meant I heard it from yats. Honestly I'm not sure anybody knows what a yat is outside of Louisiana
HurtsCauseItMatters@reddit
fair nuff :)
Prowindowlicker@reddit
Ya until I got older I never knew that “yall” could be seen as racial. I grew up in the Deep South. I was told to stop talking like I was from the deep south in school.
NoodleyP@reddit
I’ve honestly been using y’all since before I moved to North Carolina. I never expected to be here either, but I love saying “Y’all” there’s no better way to informally address a group of people imo. “You guys” seems almost business casual imo
PartyPorpoise@reddit
Yeah, there’s a lot of nuance to this subject. Certain things are widely treated as fine but others are more scrutinized.
shelwood46@reddit
I have a friend, very white guy from MN, loves to cook. He'd been getting very into Indian (the country) cuisine, and our Indian-American friends thought that was great. Then he put some Indian dish on a pizza and claimed he "Invented" it and they were like, whoa buddy (for one thing, it already existed in plenty of restaurant menus).
PartyPorpoise@reddit
Man, Houston used to have this great Indian pizza place. I think COVID killed off the last location.
unrealvirion@reddit
The distinction is that no one actually dresses up as a costume as a black person, since everyone already figured out decades ago that this is racist. Perhaps a child might dress up as MLK or their favorite black superhero for Halloween but that's a specific individual being costumed and hopefully there's no blackface involved.
With Native Americans, it's extremely common for a costume to just be Native American, a weird caricature of all Native American peoples. If it were a specific person people were cosplaying, that might be a bit better, but just putting on what they think is traditional Native dress is fucked up.
Just my thoughts as a Seminole.
Biscuit-of-the-C@reddit
To add on to clothing. There’s a lot of modern traditional wear on the market. It’s a beautiful thing and it’s a great way to engage with different stylistic elements from other cultures without appropriating.
LegitimateSale987@reddit
Wearing a Native American headress will get you a side-eye because it's impractical to wear.
I like to wear my kurta even when it's not Diwali because it's comfortable and it covers my middle aged belly a bit. That's practical.
Away_Vermicelli3051@reddit
it’s a touchy topic for many but i’ll give my two cents as an asian american.
if i see someone wearing my cultures clothing my initial reaction would be “hm i wonder why they’re wearing that.” if its out of respect and they’d simply like it and are appreciative of it. i would be more than happy to see that. if anything i encourage it. it’s awesome man.
but i have to be completely honest as an asian american, and also an asian who’s lived throughout the west of the world. there are also many times where people wear my culture’s clothing in an offensive manner. once i saw people from my town they got their hands on a rice farmer hat and started taking offensive pictures of them pulling their eyes and making stupid faces and holding up peace signs to mock asians. and i’ve seen countless amount of times online where people turn traditional clothing and sexualize it. that is NOT okay. shit like that is probably why people get so touchy on this topic.
and the same goes for other aspects of culture too. like food. i would LOVE for everyone to eat my cultures food, try it, and even give their own twists to it. and it’s awesome especially seeing how big asian food and asian fusion food is in america. but unfortunately with all the positive comes the negatives that ruin it for everyone. people saying racist shit like “ha they’re eating dogs and cats!” or reacting inappropriately like a child when they eat something that doesn’t fit their palette.
we live in a complex country where there’s so much love but also so much ignorance and hate going on. and when those things clash people start thinking “umm is this okay?” “can we do this”
smugbox@reddit
When I was in college, there was a girl who was an aspiring musician and she played at a lot of parties, small shows, music nights at bar, etc. She wore her hair in dreadlocks and wore a bindi on her forehead. She thought that made her look sooo edgy and sooo different and sooo cultured and it definitely helped her brand. At most she probably read a Wikipedia article about the meaning behind the bindi and was like “wow, yeah, I like, am totally down with that.”
So yeah, that’s appropriation.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
I see. Sounds like she just treated it like a trend or gimmick rather than actually appreciate the history and culture behind it.
ItsAnimeDealWithIt@reddit
sometimes even if you learn the culture behind it you’d still be wrong for wearing it, there’s no cut and dry answer to your question.
MidwestFlags@reddit
That’s just leftists who care. Share away/
Snoopy_Your_Dawg@reddit
It really depends on the area. In Southern California a lot of folks wouldn’t care seeing an East Asian with braids let alone listening to Hip Hop.
huazzy@reddit
This reminds me of the time ex NBA player Kenyon Martin criticized ex NBA (and Taiwanese American) player Jeremy Lin about wearing cornrows. To which Jeremy Lin clapped back saying he was just showing respect to the culture in the same way Kenyon Martin has Chinese characters tattooed on his body.
dabeeman@reddit
the fact that kenyon martin didn’t see the hypocrisy is mind blowing. america is a melting pot. do whatever you want. other people need to learn they don’t control what others do to their own bodies.
and no one owns culture.
ExoXerxesTheXIII@reddit
America was never a melting pot but a cultural potluck and that is where most Americans go wrong: they want to own, gate keep and take who brought what to the potluck to the extent that we all say "melting pot" and I realize I could just be splitting hairs here so disregard if that is the case but it feels like this is a fine line but most Americans have went wrong by claiming ownership or getting the idea wrong in the first place?
mrjabrony@reddit
A tossed salad with some unevenly applied dressing
ExoXerxesTheXIII@reddit
Good analogy here.
I used to say a big triple cheeseburger with unlevel applied cheese, lettuce and dressing ( the rich or the more influential get the top patty while most of Us get the trickle down onto the third patty but I actually like the tossed salad better...; )
mrjabrony@reddit
I was thinking of the dressing as social cohesion between groups and wasn’t even thinking of it as wealth. Completely makes sense. The burger one is good. Not much from top is trickling down to that third party for sure!
Showdown5618@reddit
I see it more like a soup.
PacSan300@reddit
Potluck is a great analogy.
LSBm5@reddit
Kenyon was not a smart man.
patchouligirl77@reddit
This right here is the problem. The dumbest are always the loudest.
bran6442@reddit
Empty barrels make the most noise.
YourOldCellphone@reddit
You’re telling me the throw the ball in the hoop guy isn’t as smart as a player who graduated from Harvard?
RazorRamonio@reddit
I mean, I think you’re 100% wrong on that one.
sneeds_feednseed@reddit
Depends on if what you’re doing comes from a genuine connection to or appreciation for the culture or not. A lot of it is related to your upbringing. One of my buddies is a white man who grew up around a lot of Mexican Americans, so he’s adopted a lot of their culture organically in a way that I absolutely couldn’t having grown up in Maine.
An interesting area where these ideas get explored is white rappers. Someone like MC Serch gets a lot more respect as being legit compared to Vanilla Ice. That’s because Serch portrays himself in a way that isn’t just a caricature of tropes he absorbed from mass media.
Raining_Hope@reddit
Personally, I think I react differently to the appropriation issue. If someone starts talking like me, I take it as a compliment.
I know others see it as disrespectful though so be careful about that I guess. I'd be happy to hear someone from a different country start saying y'all.
OrdinarySubstance491@reddit
Some things I feel are pretty obvious. Other things are more nuanced.
I’ve heard white girls shouldn’t wear hoop earrings. Where I live, they’ve been popular for every race since I was a little girl and I’ve been wearing them that long so I’m gonna keep wearing them. I would never do cornrows or wear any kind of cultural dress unless I was at a specific cultural event, like a wedding.
As a white southerner, anyone can say y’all.
AdjectiveMcNoun@reddit
Wait...what? I've never heard about hoop earrings or y'all being a racial thing.
As a fellow white Southerner, I have to agree, anyone can say y'all, as everyone does. I also have to say that I see hoop earrings on everyone, male and female, all races, all the time.
I think as long as long as anything is worn or done in a respectful and appropriate way and not done to mock or exploit the other culture, there is no problem with anyone wearing/saying/dancing/eating, etc whatever they want from another culture.
sammyjo494@reddit
I'm in my 30's, white, and from Florida. Growing up, large hoop earings were absolutely considered "ghetto". Along with long acrylic nails and lots of fashion trends that are currently popular. Now all of those things are super popular amongst white ppl, and everyone forgets black ppl were shamed for them not even 10-15 years ago.
I think this is why POC get so annoyed by these conversations. Culture and trends they start are mocked on them and lauded on white people. Then not only do they lose some of their unique identity, the general populace doesn't even give them credit for making it popular. Just like how you didn't even know large hoop earrings were part of the black community.
AdjectiveMcNoun@reddit
I didn't mean that I didn't know hoop earrings were a part of of the black community. I meant I didn't know they were specific to one race. I remember white women in the 80s wearing hoop earrings, along with the blacks, and latinas, and everyone else. Rich and poor. The super long acrylic nails wear usually considered kinda trashy though, although all races wore them, and it depended where you were if they were seen as trashy or not Did you ever watch the Sopranos? Those white jersey mob wives loved those nails. Even earlier than that they were associated with the Miami beach and cocaine culture in the 80s so a lot of white women wore them.
I get your point though and I understand why that would upset people.
Inside_Ad9026@reddit
The first time I heard that white girls shouldn’t be wearing hoops, I was like … what? Everyone I’d known has been wearing them for longer than the person that said that has been alive.
the_green_witch-1005@reddit
It's not that they shouldn't ever wear them. But, as most Black fashion, hoop earrings were considered "ghetto" until white girls decided they liked them.
Inside_Ad9026@reddit
Ok, I get that. Not arguing, curious. When was that? I hate hoops on myself because … my ears are dumb but I have grown up my entire life with everyone I know wearing them. I grew up in a lot of predominantly black neighborhoods, too. Maybe that’s why. Different perspectives are always interesting to me.
the_green_witch-1005@reddit
So, as a white girl myself, I don't feel qualified to explain this - and I'm honestly one of the least fashionable people you'll ever meet. But I did find two articles, one written by a Latina living in Australia (which has similar racial issues to America) and one written about American Black women. I feel like both articles do a really good job of explaining the historical significance behind hoop earrings and how fashion and cultural appropriation relate.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/hoop-earrings-are-my-culture-not-your-trend/
https://tinilux.com/blogs/tini-lux-edit/hoop-earrings-in-black-culture?srsltid=AfmBOoqZAcERzW8TNH6tIL_xumUnGiKgjfhUKXbbct0jgTarf-1C7TZ_
Inside_Ad9026@reddit
Are we still on Reddit?
Thank you for the polite and informative response. I will read!
the_green_witch-1005@reddit
Haha, I try to not be a typical "redditor"! Thank you for the polite discourse 😊💜
Inside_Ad9026@reddit
That second article was good about explaining! When I said growing up everyone around me wore them, I was a kid in the 70’s (I’m an old) and growing up in predominantly black neighborhoods, this was common. I have hoops from when I was small, like the first article. I never knew they were considered just trendy. I’m not into fashion at all and TIL! Thank you 😊
paka96819@reddit
I remember this white guy who tried to speak like a local guy in Hawaii. It was embarrassing to see him do it but nobody ever corrected him.
lorgskyegon@reddit
A friend of mine owned a Bible written in Hawaiian Pidgin. Just trying to read it out loud was very difficult. I can't imagine trying to speak it normally.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
My brother lived there for a spell. He's brown and he passed as a local, without trying, everywhere he went. He said he could've gotten away with using the lingo but he didn't like deliberately tricking people, so he just stuck with his normal 'surfer dude' accent.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
I've been on both sides of that. I concede it can be cringe to see/hear sometimes, but I gotta respect someone's effort to practice a different language.
paka96819@reddit
It’s not a different language.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Oh, what did you mean when you said he tried to speak like a local guy?
paka96819@reddit
It's called Hawaiian Pidgen English. It's like a creole.
Ashamed-Complaint423@reddit
Embarrassing to hear someone tried to do that. Then, again, not shocked.
RusstyDog@reddit
There is certainly an overcorrection when it comes to cultural appropriation. The term really stems from using Native Anerican religeious or ceremonial garb as party costumes. This is because, as a nation, the US systematically destroyed their way of life, their religeions, their culture, and even their language. Only a few small pockets managed to hold onto little pieces of their culture, those pieces being turned into decorations and toys by the ancestors if the ones who did it is beyond insulting.
The internet, as it is today, is incapable of nuance. Social media algorithms fight against it for engagement. The context of cultural appropriation gets thrown out the window, it's either wholly good or wholly bad
Vixter4@reddit
Culture is already something so incredibly blended together in the US. Pretty much so long as you are expressing culture in a tasteful, inoffensive manner, most people will likely not have a problem with you. However some will, regardless of what you do, find reasons to talk down on how you view and use culture.
WizeAdz@reddit
In addition, one of the core issues about appropriation is whether you “get” the significance of the thing you’re adopting.
This comes up a lot with Native American cultures in the here USA. The aesthetic in clothing, jewelry, and art is very accessible to cost Americans — but information about what things actually mean within the context of the culture from which they came is harder to come by.
oridia@reddit
"Appropriation" is an entirely imagined offense, not a real violation of anybody's rights. The social sciences do have some incentive to cry wolf, so it's important to not blindly accept every idea they put out.
MEXICOCHIVAS14@reddit
This is a very nuanced question
the_vole@reddit
It’s kinda like the definition of porn. “I can’t tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it.”
Really, if the cultural difference is done as a costume, or something inauthentic, it’s looked down on. But if you find meaning in it, and especially if you were raised in the culture you’re participating in, there’s usually no problem, in general.
itsabout_thepasta@reddit
So true, the porn definition comparison. I’m certainly not an authority on the culture appropriation subject, but I would say if I just trust my gut on where things cross a line, that’s always been a pretty safe bet.
Like, I feel most things that don’t involve profiting somehow off of whatever potential appropriating you’re doing, there’s more room to kinda branch out a bit further. Like if as a Caucasian person I think it’s fine for me to get a henna tattoo, for example. Where if I (as a Caucasian person) started opening henna studios, I think that’s be veering way too far into a space for profit that really isn’t mine to encroach into. Just feel like the profiting element is usually a big part of the sort of subconscious calculus I do on these kind of things.
ReadinII@reddit
How do you feel when you go into a sushi restaurant run by Koreans?
Dazzling-Climate-318@reddit
You are aware that Japan controlled Korea up until the end of the Second World War and that some Koreans participated in the Olympics under the Japanese Flag and one won a Medal? And all interaction between the Japanese government and Koreans was not positive. Most notably the massive human trafficking of Korean women forced to serve in Japanese Military Brothels.
On of my Professors who studied the Korean auto industry to me explained that Korean workers were willing to work for less and work long hours in their auto Industry as a patriotic activity and a way to stick it to the Japanese who they intensely hated.
Korea has its own government and royalty. Japan at one point killed their Queen and later forced their Emperor to abdicate. The Japanese attempted to eliminate Korea as a nation, stealing its national treasures and destroying its historical buildings. They banned the Korean language and tried to force their Emperor Koreans to become basically second class Japanese.
So a Korean selling Sushi is both culturally appropriate and a way to get at least a little for all the injustice they received being forced laborers for Japan during the Second World War.
ReadinII@reddit
80 years ago.
80 years ago.
Made sense for the generations that experienced the events of 80 years ago.
80+ years ago.
How many of the Koreans opening sushi restaurants remember the events of 80 years ago rather than having learned about them second-hand?
I have no problem with Koreans opening sushi restaurants. I also have no problem with Japanese opening Korean BBQ restaurants.
Dazzling-Climate-318@reddit
Some people don’t pay attention to the past, don’t have older relatives, don’t have family stories and never have taken a history course.
I would not expect the average person not from Korea, of Korean descent to know and care about its history. I would also not expect them to know Sushi has anything to do with Japan. For all they know, Sushi may have been invented in Mexico.
thereBheck2pay@reddit
Yeah, well my mother-in-law had to get married young to some jerk so the Japanese wouldn't kidnap her for their military brothels. She was forced to use a Japanese name in school and punished for speaking Korean. And she is still alive and her daughters suffered for all that stuff "eighty years ago."
Patient_Number_4922@reddit
I feel nothing. Is it good quality sushi? Then I don’t GAF about the ethnicity of the owner.
ReadinII@reddit
I asked the question because of this comment:
What do you think about a white person opening a henna tattoo studio?
Patient_Number_4922@reddit
I think nothing of it.
thelaughingpear@reddit
Chicago has a pretty popular Chinese restaurant run by Koreans and nobody has an issue with it. It's called Great Sea
ReadinII@reddit
I asked the question because of this comment:
What do you think about a white person opening a henna tattoo studio?
sh1tpost1nsh1t@reddit
Given not too distant history that's probably better than a Japanese person serving up Korean food
ExoXerxesTheXIII@reddit
Probably not any type of way as Koreans are not necessarily known to hijack or appropriate other Asian cultures but I see what you're saying 🦎🐍
haboobsoverdjibouti@reddit
This is an insane take. If Indian people picked up country music or Texas BBQ I would be happy. If they can make money off it, that is a good thing. If they can make excellent fusion food, even better.
You sound trapped in a self flagellating hell.
itsabout_thepasta@reddit
Yeah, I’m not actually. I feel, perhaps because there are Indian people in my community who operate henna studios, that it would be really inappropriate and not something I personally would personally feel comfortable or interested in co-opting as I’m not part of their cultural subgroup and unfamiliar with the traditions and meaning around it. I would rather appreciate the artistry of it from people who are immersed in the culture henna stems from. Really not about self-flagellation at all.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
What if some nightclub in Bangalore dressed itself up like some kind of American backwoods church, and people went in there dressed up like King of the Hill side characters and started mimicking 'holy rollers' for laughs? I'd bet that piss off at least a few people in Texas.
letsgooncemore@reddit
You are equating mocking religion with appropriating culture. Those are not the same. However, there are United States themed restaurants in other countries. Check out Japan's love of cowboys. But more importantly, I bet the people who would be pissed about it couldn't fund Bangalore on a map.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
For the most part, that's innocuous. On the other hand, futzing with other peoples' sacred objects and practices is not.
Inside_Ad9026@reddit
The people in Texas it would piss off are the ones who deserve to be pissed off about something so stupid. I would think it’s funny AF. ~ a texan that doesn’t know how to change their flair
stealthcake20@reddit
The difference between those two examples is that yours is making fun of something sacred. The barbecue example is just food.
It seems like some elements do cultures are freely shared, but some shouldn’t be treated casually. And the relationship of the the cultures matters. When one group is more powerful and has be abusive to the other, they should be more careful with their stuff.
The way New Age culture has appropriated Kabbalah and Native American ritual comes to mind.
ExistentialistOwl8@reddit
People would just think it was weird, but mostly they'd never know about it, like the "if they could read" King of the Hill meme. Personally, I would find it awesome and hilarious, but I love cultural fusion.
WaveOk2181@reddit
Not the same at all. That's mocking a stereotype.
A white person opening henna studio is not mocking a stereotype.
A more accurate comparison, going off your scenario, is if someone in Bangalore opened up a American country bar (flags, classic metal beer signs, pool table/dart boards, high top circle tables with wooden stools, American liquor and beer, etc.). That would piss off zero Americans.
Rogers_Razor@reddit
https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1113/p07s02-woap.html
Probably no one in Texas would give a shit.
User_Anon_0001@reddit
More than a few leaps there
the_green_witch-1005@reddit
The difference is that Texans have never been discriminated against for eating BBQ food. 🤦♀️
bienenstush@reddit
It's different when Caucasian people do it....
bienenstush@reddit
The henna tattoo vs studio is a VERY good example
the_vole@reddit
Yeah. It’s a gut check. The two extremes are something along the lines of having Chinese food for dinner vs full-on blackface.
Additionally, you’d be hard pressed to find a culture where everyone agrees on what’s ok for people outside of that culture to utilize. Some can view it as a celebration, some can view it as a bad thing.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
I'll be honest, I'm not sure I understand the comparison with porn?
Visible_Noise1850@reddit
They’re basically saying it’s subjective. They want to be able to pick and choose on a whim.
Yes, yes, it’s fine to share that culture.
No, no, it’s strictly forbidden to share this culture.
Welcome to America.
itsabout_thepasta@reddit
I really don’t think that acknowledging there are many nuances at play in determining what is and isn’t “pornography” under a shared understanding of the word, and that it’s inherently a subjective judgement call — is problematic. I think it’s acknowledgement that there really isn’t going to ever be a complete consensus on how it’s defined. That’s just reality.
Visible_Noise1850@reddit
You're not wrong, but I also think (and I'm willing to be shown differently) the rush to be offended is bordering on an American thing.
Some of the stuff that gets people into an uproar here has friends of mine abroad sending me "WTF" texts.
itsabout_thepasta@reddit
Yeah, I mean, that’s fair. I guess I just don’t worry about a certain segment of people who are trying to go out of their way to be outraged about anything. I just concern myself with respecting that not everything is meant for me. Not every tradition or manner or speaking or dressing or celebrating, of all of the many cultural subgroups we’re lucky to have in the United States, are necessarily mine to start barging in on. I just think there are way more instances of people who refuse to understand the ways they’re being disrespectful or dismissive to other groups they aren’t part of in this country, than there are people who overly police cultural appropriation.
Visible_Noise1850@reddit
There will always be unregulatable idiots.
itsabout_thepasta@reddit
There will also always be shameless idiots
Visible_Noise1850@reddit
Unfortunately.
the_vole@reddit
Ah! I’m sorry, I’ll explain. There can be photographs of nude persons that are artistic in nature, and not designed to titillate. Being able to draw a specific line between where art ends and pornography begins is a tough thing to specifically define. And where that line is differs from person to person.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Ooooooohh ok ok, now I totally get it. This is a conversation I've had with friends who do photography and modeling before, I just wasn't familiar with the reference.
TheyMakeMeWearPants@reddit
Actually comes from a Supreme Court justice on a case about porn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it
the_vole@reddit
I think I knew it was a judicial thing, but I don’t think I knew it was from the Supreme Court! Thanks for clueing me in. It’s always awesome to learn new stuff.
crimson777@reddit
To be extra detailed from what they said below; in a Supreme Court case here in the US in the 60s that was determining what material could be considered “obscene,” one of the Justices talked a bit about how to determine what was porn and what wasn’t, and said “I know it when I see it.” Basically saying that he didn’t need a super detailed test to determine what was porn and what wasn’t, because you can just tell from looking at it.
Curmudgy@reddit
It's not just that he didn't need it but that it was difficult to define.
crimson777@reddit
Ah you’re right, my bad.
ReadinII@reddit
It’s something that is hard to define, but you know whether something is it when you see it.
IanDOsmond@reddit
The first thing to understand is that it is fundamentally different to live in a diaspora vs a sourcelander culture.
If you are an Indian in India, a Korean in Korea, a Jew in Israel, a Mexican in Mexico it is fundamentally different than being a member of those communities in the diaspora.
When your culture is the majority culture, it cannot be appropriated. It is just... culture. It's what everybody does – it's normal. And it is pretty cool when other people take it on.
But when you are in a minority culture, in a diaspora, it hits different. You have to put real effort into maintaining your culture, keeping what is unique and special about it. It doesn't happen automatically like it does when you are in the majority. And so, when people from the majority adopt your previously-unique things, you have suffered a loss. You have lost something which you had used to maintain your identity.
The United States, when we are at our best, is gloriously, extravagantly multicultural. Which means that we actually have to put effort into maintaining it. We don't want people to have parts of the identity they spend time maintaining be devalued, made less special, by having them become universal.
InevitableCup5909@reddit
It depends, as long as you’re not being offensive about it, or doing something like those dipshits who wore native American headdresses because they ‘looked cool’ or something like a dude wearing a hijab it’s pretty welcome.
SinesPi@reddit
Most Americans don't care about that stuff. In fact it's mocked by a lot of them. The people hating on "cultural appropriation' are a mix of loud people getting attention, and disproportionate media representation.
Anyone who is offended by an Asian with braided hair is not a good person to begin with. Consider their negative reaction to you a warning sign to avoid them.
Serious-Collection34@reddit
Speaking blandly nobody would give a shit, but u might run into a soft liberal who who cry out cultural appropriation, id just Ignor them and keep walking, wear what u want last time I checked it’s a free country
bothunter@reddit
It really depends, and as a white man I can't really be an authoritative source on what cultural appropriation is, but I can explain to the best of my understanding.
Basically, I see two main types of cultural appropriation. The first one is pieces of culture which were historically (or even currently) prohibited or otherwise suppressed for the culture. Think Black hairstyles like cornrows or dreads being appropriated by rich trust fund babies at Coachella. Black people have to straighten their hair to hold a job because it's "unprofessional" to do otherwise, but Becky gets to have white girl dreads because they look cool. Its disrespectful.
The other is appropriating parts of culture which are deeply significant. Such as native American headdresses which have a deep cultural and spiritual significance. Yet Ashleigh makes a shitty replica and wears it while tripping on peyote and making an ass of herself. Again deeply disrespectful.
There's a lot of overlap, and it's by no means exhaustive. But it comes down to respect. Taking a part of someone else's culture and reusing it without understanding the meaning or history behind it just because it looks cool or earns you a few bucks is disrespectful and wrong.
RosietheMaker@reddit
There are going to be mixed opinions about this. If people invite you to share the culture, you’ll be fine. However, you have to understand that a lot of marginalized groups in the US have been made fun of for their culture to then watch people outside of it use it freely.
A lot of us Black people don’t like see people “sharing our culture” because whenever Black people do anything, we’re looked down on for it. We still face discrimination in school and workplaces for our hairstyles for example.
The reason you see a divide between Americans and people from the culture is that people from that culture don’t deal with the daily discrimination. A Japanese person is not going to care about a non-Japanese person wearing a kimono because they are the majority in their country and don’t deal with constant discrimination on that basis. A Japanese-American does deal with the discrimination/being made fun of for their culture.
PrimaryAny6314@reddit
I don't think it's rude. I think adopting other cultural customs is a great idea. In the US we certainly adopt other cuisines.
designgrl@reddit
I personally mind my business and allow others to as well. The earth belongs to know one, nor does the things we do. The quite silly and quite frankly ignorant.
Curmudgy@reddit
On the contrary, it's deliberate ignorance to ignore the meanings and significance of cultural items to those cultures and how they'd react to their misuse. Maybe there's nothing in your culture that you'd mind others misusing but that doesn't mean other cultures don't have sacred things that should be shown a level of respect. At a minimum, you should find out what something means to the other culture before using it.
designgrl@reddit
Are maybe that’s all your life is to you. Someone who thinks what they believe is all that matters and others are ignorant! But who really seems ignorant?
Curmudgy@reddit
That’s a really bizarre take. No one said that their belief is all that matters. But if you don’t try to understand their beliefs, then you’re literally ignorant of those beliefs. If you don’t know that some group may consider some type of object sacred, then you’re literally ignorant of that aspect of their culture.
Do you think it’s ok to take communion at a Catholic Mass when you have no interest in Catholicism or any other Christian religion, but think it’s a fun idea to have someone put a wafer in your mouth and you want to taste it?
designgrl@reddit
I do think you probably don’t have a lot of friends.
Curmudgy@reddit
Now you’re just being rude.
designgrl@reddit
I understand your point, and I respect that cultural significance matters. But I think you misunderstood the spirit of what I was saying.
My comment wasn’t about dismissing sacred things or advocating for disrespect. It was a reflection on how some conversations — especially online — stop being about genuine respect and instead become performances of morality. People use cultural topics not to open dialogue, but to assert dominance or shame others for not having the same vocabulary or awareness. That’s not education — that’s ego.
The truth is, culture isn’t something any of us own. It moves, it mixes, it evolves. Yes, some elements deserve protection and reverence — but not everything is a sacred artifact. And when people pretend otherwise, it dilutes the seriousness of real cultural harm.
We can talk about nuance. We can talk about respect. But not everything needs to be a battlefield, and not every disagreement is ignorance. Sometimes it’s just a different perspective.
Curmudgy@reddit
That's a very different take than the way your original note came across. Thank you for taking the time to write in more detail and present a better, more nuanced case.
designgrl@reddit
That’s what my original note meant, I thought it was clear.
pfta4@reddit
Yeah, my first reaction to that person's response was "I don't see color"
Jerentropic@reddit
I agree, for the most part. But there're situations. Like the Cleveland Indians, the Washington Redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs (appropriation); the Chicago Blackhawks (not appropriation, as the team works closely with the tribe to maintain respect). Should rock and roll, or the blues, or jazz be considered appropriation, or the spread of musical styles? Most of the Asian cuisine restaurants, Jewish delis, and Italian joints in Los Angeles are staffed by Latino cooks; but we don't consider this appropriation, because of course it's not. Hip-hop culture pervaded the US in the '80's and '90's and was accepted by some, rejected by others, but not appropriation; until some people, one white woman in Washington State in particular, declared themselves Black, which is blatant appropriation. I think a lot of it is silly; but in some examples, it's really not.
TruckADuck42@reddit
Fuck off with the chiefs already. They're named after Bartle and there is literally nothing offensive about the word "Chief".
I get Redskins, that's a straight up slur. I even get Indians somewhat, as that's a bit too on the nose. But "Chiefs" is no more offensive than "Vikings", invoking a warrior culture in a sport where being fierce is important.
Agent__Zigzag@reddit
Redskins logo based on actual Indian. Him & family loved that he was the inspiration. Plus surveys show that most American Indians are indifferent or positive on name+logo of Washington Redskins football team.
unrealvirion@reddit
I'm Native, not OP though. White people shouldn't be cosplaying as Native Americans in the same way white people shouldn't be doing blackface.
There are plenty of teams that are sanctioned by tribes anyway, like how the Florida Seminoles are sanctioned by the Seminole Tribe of Florida.
pinniped90@reddit
I'm a huge Chiefs fan, but there's a pretty dark history around how he got that nickname - one directly related to wealthy whites cosplaying native Americans in an era when Kansas City was even more segregated than it is now.
I agree with you that the word is not offensive or even unique to native Americans, but bringing up that dark past isn't great justification for it.
Mindless-Client3366@reddit
The Atlanta Braves is another good example. Fortunately Cleveland and Washington have changed their name.
smugbox@reddit
Ugh the Barves and their fucking chop 🙄
Thelonius16@reddit
The problem with the Cleveland Indians wasn’t appropriation. They were named after an Indian player. The problem was the ridiculous cartoon caricature of a red-colored mascot/logo, along with some people’s preference against even using the term Indian to refer to Native Americans.
Ceorl_Lounge@reddit
Honestly I think Chief Wahoo was much the problem as the name itself, but there was never really a way to disentangle the two given the long history. Also Wahoo and the Chop were major parts of the Indians biggest claim to fame... the 1989 Classic "Major League".
Univeroooo@reddit
Anyone who throws words like appropriation around are bigots, just enjoy yourself and the culture. Everyone here is from somewhere else.
BP3D@reddit
There is an annoying trend (usually among teens and terminally online) of being offended on behalf of others. So if a young white teen is claiming you are appropriating another culture, it's safe to just completely ignore them if not just ridicule them. If a Japanese person is complaining about your kimono, that is worth listening to. I would suspect it is a particular issue and not just the act of wearing one. Like you are wearing the wrong style or something incorrect. That is just about helping you learn about the culture.
Word2DWise@reddit
Just to be clear, cultural appropriation is bullshit idea. You can wear whatever you want, and have whatever hairstyle you want. What you’re seeing is a selected few who like to bitch about the stupidest things
Second, people in America love to share their culture, and learn about different cultures, sometime to an annoying extreme.
paradisetossed7@reddit
I wouldn't say that it's bullshit but that it's completely misunderstood. Wearing a gaudy "Native American" headdress is not cool. Cooking foods from other ethnicities is fine--and what we want as a melting pot.
djninjacat11649@reddit
Yeah, do what you want, but if someone from that culture is telling you what you are doing is offensive, best listen
paradisetossed7@reddit
Yeah i think that's important too. If someone from another culture says hey, that's not cool, you absolutely should listen. But wearing a Sari to an Indian wedding, getting into Buddhism as someone not from Asia, enjoying incense, and generally appreciating other cultures and wanting to do right by them I think is good--it's why we work as a melting pot. But if you've got your hair in corn rows and have adopted AAVE, don't be surprised when people are pissed, and don't act like you face the same systemic oppression as Black Americans do.
Word2DWise@reddit
For examples see: Rachel Dolezal.
paradisetossed7@reddit
One of the biggest ooofs to ever oof
djninjacat11649@reddit
Yeah, some stuff has some very specific cultural background that means ya can’t just do it, but those are the exceptions in my experience, and usually people are happy to see others participating in their cultural practices so long as they aren’t doing so with positive intent
No-Seaworthiness8966@reddit
You can’t really do this in the Bay Area without being called out. But, this is not the case everywhere.
TheItinerantObserver@reddit
As long as you're not hurting anybody or being hateful, who cares what others think? You do you, friend.
Darkdragoon324@reddit
“Cultural appropriation” was originally about not disrespecting certain things that are sacred or very important to a culture.
But it’s been misunderstood and bastardized into “no one’s allowed to do, say, wear, or own anything that didn’t originate with their own specific culture”
Live_Badger7941@reddit
Eh, in the US there are two camps on this.
There are definitely plenty of people here who agree with you.
VioletJackalope@reddit
There’s a fine line between “cultural appropriation” and “cultural appreciation” that most people don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between.
Ex. white girls with curly hair adopting wearing a bonnet to sleep to help with their hair routine, which is typically more of an African American beauty routine thing, is something that qualifies as appreciation. They’re not doing it to steal culture or appear to be part of the culture, but instead to benefit from that particular aspect of the traditionally African American beauty routine because it also works for them and they aren’t doing it in a way that is meant to take away from them or make fun of them.
A white woman wearing Native American traditional dress with no understanding or reason other than it looks “cool” is appropriation, because they’re doing it simply for the aesthetic without any real understanding of the culture or what any of it means to the people that culture comes from, and they’re likely wearing it inappropriately which is considered disrespectful.
meganemistake@reddit
I feel like areas with an actually diverse population would have people who dgaf because it's part of daily life to experience some facet of another's culture
TwincessAhsokaAarmau@reddit
Not the same thing, black culture has always been discriminated against.When we wear our own hair for protection and culture, it’s called ghetto however when non black people have dreads or locs, they are seen as beautiful.
Not to mention that your hair is not designed for dreads and can even fall straight out due to the stress on your scalp.
Odd-Local9893@reddit
Locs can be found throughout history in straight haired cultures too. I’ve seen pics of aborigines in Australia, gurus in India, and Native Americans all with locs. Also, IIRC, many Europeans had locs in past (Julius Caesar described them on the Celts).
I don’t see why black Americans think they own the hairstyle and can brigade the rest of the world. Same with hoop earrings. They’ve been worn by cultures everywhere going back millennia.
TwincessAhsokaAarmau@reddit
Actually, people of African descent made the hairstyles so yes we do own it.
And idk where it said that Caesar has had locs.
Odd-Local9893@reddit
We could follow your logic down some pretty inconvenient rabbit holes if you think the race that invented something owns it, don’t you think? As a Latino I certainly haven’t seen my ownership paperwork for salsa dancing or Mexican food, lol.
Further, you didn’t invent anything. If you actually do some research then you’ll see that locs have been around for millennia in multiple races (including whites). That’s what I was explaining to you in my post you obviously didn’t read.
Wii_wii_baget@reddit
For sure depends on your area but also the people your around. I’ve met many people of color who think it’s fine to wear braids or dreads no matter the color of someone’s skin I’ve met others who think it’s really not ok to have cornrows or cultural hair styles. Just remember anywhere you go you may get looks just because of peoples opinions
LegitimateSale987@reddit
A little personal anecdote:
I'm white and American and my wife is an Indian from Malaysia.
I saw something on facebook about "clothes you should never wear if youre not from that group" or something like that. Two of the types of clothing styles were traditional Indian clothes (I think one was a sari and the other may have been the bindi/putu).
I turned to my wife and asked her opinion on the matter and she basically said, "as long as they're not wearing it to mock us, I really don't care."
I reported what my wife said in the comments and I got two responses form white people to tell me that my wife doesn't speak for all Indians. I also saw other Indians saying the saying the same thing and many of them were getting shut down in a similar manner.
Wear what you like. Do what you want with your hair.
LegitimateSale987@reddit
And of course I got downvoted for this.
saikron@reddit
I would say it has become awkward and fraught because bad actors have made everyone really cynical. The real, original problem was trying to explain to people that if you're doing a really bad job and people don't like it, what you're doing is not "cultural appreciation," but in people's enthusiasm for not being reasonable two extreme positions fell out of that: "Actually, even the worst examples are still fine" vs. "Actually, any time you adopt anything outside of your birth culture it's bad."
The purpose of cultural signifiers is to... signal... that you are part of a culture. So I think it's fine to do a bit of gatekeeping and knowledge checking of people, but looks are not a good way of knowing if you share cultural values and ideas.
ButItSaysOnline@reddit
There’s a difference between appropriation and appreciation. I think it all depends on the intention.
soonerpgh@reddit
Quite frankly, people are stupid. Cultural appropriation is how things have been done and adopted since the dawn of mankind. We're just all about whining and crying in the US.
Kyle81020@reddit
The number of people who think about cultural appropriation at all is small. The number of Americans who think cultural appropriation is a problem is even smaller. Unfortunately, they are extremely loud and ignorant. Ignore them and do what you want. Wear what you like, cook the food you like, cut and wear your hair as you see fit, and listen to the music that makes you happy.
paulrudds@reddit
Not at all, but some people may be offended. There's two types of those people usually.
Anyone with a brain cell and a heart with compassion would love it if you did share your Culture with them.
QaraKha@reddit
You have to remember that America through the fault of incredibly racist people has kind of fucked itself with regards to culture.
See, there's the promise of a melting pot, where all cultures come together, share the better parts, enjoy the better parts, and happily so. Now, this also requires some grace--people are going to come up with stereotypes and those stereotypes are going to be abused for racism purposes, and some people will take offense to that because what they're trying to do is make sure other people feel comfortable, and having some racist do racist shit is actively harmful to that.
The problem with that is that sometimes the stereotypes are just good reads on individual cultures. Sometimes they're done in good faith cultural sharing. It's just kind of fucking HARD to, from the outside, decide "Is this person doing an offensive vaguely Asian accent to make fun of people with an accent or is it someone with first hand experience about their grandmother's English after she fled the Khmer Rouge and many years later though her children can speak English without a Cambodian accent she still cannot."
While a lot of people would err on the side of caution before trying to correct that behavior, we also have a lot of examples of erring on the side of caution getting people killed--a rich history of mass slaughter and discrimination against just about everyone, including at some points, ourselves.
It's probably better to err on the side of caution sometimes, without trying to 'correct' what we view as racist/inappropriate behavior. As always, it's probably better to talk to someone whose culture you think you're defending before you go out and defend them. That's what 'cultural/diversity' readers are typically for. You can be bigoted without even realizing you're being bigoted.
For instance, black culture views their hair as important--it is something that was literally stolen from them culturally in the United States, and something they still are discriminated against for having today. Some states still allow discrimination, forcing them to spend hundreds of dollars a month on products to make their hair start to resemble everyone else's. The problem? Their hair LITERALLY does not conform. Those products destroy their hair. Some types of hair literally can't be straight, and students are punished for not being "acceptable" with regards to their hairstyles. The styles their hair does work well in are banned. This leads many black people to shave their hair entirely. That's why you sometimes see black women with wigs instead--those at least can conform. Black hair is HEAVILY policed, not just by white society but by other black people sometimes, too. So when you take hairstyles that they use because their hair doesn't conform to the more common hairstyles, you're probably harming your own hair... to look more like them. But they're just like the example above. They don't know if you're harming your hair to look like them or if your hair is the type of hair that does better in rows or dreadlocks. And nobody ever explains this.
QaraKha@reddit
Anyway, outside of the melting pot and the cultures sometimes clashing due to "is it racism or just good faith culture sharing," you also have a lot of white people on the outside who are almost entirely bereft of culture at all.
See, there's a lot of white people who, due to racist reasons, just weren't considered white. If you were Irish, Italian, Eastern European, Spanish, or descended from them, you weren't "White." You were "impure." As "whites" lost power throughout the 1800s, to the civil war, and throughout the 1900s, they desperately clawed those groups in. Discrimination forced these people to discard their histories and cultures, and then they were invited into "White" to preserve a white-majority status quo. Suddenly if you happened to be Irish or Spanish or Italian or Polish, you too could be white... because if you weren't white, "whites" were a minority, and these extremely racist people thought that if EVER anyone realizes they were outnumbered, they'd do to them what they'd BEEN doing to everyone else.
The result is that today there is no real "white culture." They have no guiding maxims, no common associations, no grand histories, no connection to ancestral land. They only have the color of their skin and the failing hegemony that has kept them in power.
That's why you see so many white people saying "o-oh but my great great great great grandparents were from Ireland, I want to visit!" but that makes them basically 0% Irish. Nobody cares. They're not Irish. They're "American." They're "white." That's all they are. All they'll ever be.
And we only have ourselves to blame.
tn00bz@reddit
For the most part, not really. There's a small group of people that will get all bent out of shape about hair, but they're a loud minority.
Sharing culture is kind of the United States thing. I'm not Mexican, but my wife is, and she never learned her mom's cooking... so I learned how to cook all of her families authentic dishes. No one is mad about it, if anything, her family loves me for it.
shamalonight@reddit
This is America. The melting pot. There is no aspect of any culture that is off limits to anyone.
ohnowth8@reddit
I always found it funny when cultural appropriation is brought up. If it's used to debase a culture, sure, I get it. But most of the time, it's appreciation. There should be pride that something that was created became so popular. Rap and rap culture only grew because of white suburban kids listening and buying records. That should be a point of pride that they were able to connect with people outside of their culture to expand it.
AnimatorEntire2771@reddit
only shitheads care about cultural apropriation
Academic_Profile5930@reddit
As a white person of European heritage I try to be careful about seeming to be culturally insensitive. I don't see anything wrong with adopting a style that "belongs" to another ethnic group as long as it's respectful and not done in a demeaning way. That said, "y'all" is more of a southern thing and not just a black thing.
BigPapaJava@reddit
This was a bigger deal a few years ago when everyone wanted to criticize everyone else for cultural appropriation in an endless, nonsensical cultural turf war.
Some people may still care and some places will be more likely to have those people, but the whole thing has always seemed silly to me: all cultures appropriate and all culture is appropriated to some extent.
Agent__Zigzag@reddit
I personally think the whole concept of cultural appropriation is garbage. But I guess that’s a minority opinion.
rathat@reddit
Y'all isn't even a black thing, it's a southern thing. People might associate it with black people because black people who's families moved north over the 20ty century might be the only southerners who live in their northern area.
Amazing_Excuse_3860@reddit
"Ya'll" isn't African American Vernacular English, it's sourhern slang, so african americans can't claim it a cultural appropriation.
When it comes to nonblack people wearing black hairstyles, that is a very messy rabbit hole. Black people have historically been oppressed for their hair, including being told they can't wear certain styles in the workplace or at school. So to see other people wearing it as if it's a cute fashion trend can come across as a bit insulting. There's also the fact that there are certain styles that literally can't be done on nonblack hair. From what i understand, nonblack hair can't hold dreadlocks because they don't lock, so they're just matts (which is just bad for your hair and unhygienic). However, many people have very differing opinions on this matter, and i can't speak for anyone.
Hip hop is a genre created by african americans. It is not cultural appropriation to like or make hip hop if you're not african american or black. It IS cultural appropriation to try and claim that they didn't create the genre, or that you created the genre.
For kimono - the Japanese literally do not give a shit if you wear kimono inside out with mom's spaghetti spilled on it. If you're wearing kimono wrong, the most they would ever do is politely correct you. They're just happy to have people participating in and enjoying their culture.
For sombreros and ponchos - there has been a trend for decades where they would sell halloween costumes so kids could "dress up as a mexican" or "dress up as a native american." My uneducated opinion as someone who is not mexican is that so long as you aren't claiming to be "dressing up as a mexican" and you're just wearing the attire because you like it, it's probably fine.
Swimming-Book-1296@reddit
It is fine, there are just loudmouths that hate it when outsiders do things from the loudmouth's culture. Just keep enjoying stuff, most Americans are fine with it.
Travelmusicman35@reddit
Sadly yes, far too often, only in the us too.
dismal-duckling@reddit
It isn't that binary. There are issues of history, respect, power and access, and credit/compensation.
Black hair is highly politicized in the US, natural and protective hairstyles like braids have historically deemed as unkempt, ugly, and unprofessional. There are still news stories of children being sent home because they have braids, of children having their braids cut off by staff or other children, and bullied for their hair. There are workplace policies about hair that discriminate against Black workers. So when non-Black people try to mimic these styles, that often don't even work with their own hair, it is seen as appropriation because there isn't an acknowledgement or respect of the history and current politicization. It can be seen as another form of blackface, which has a deeply painful and frustrating history.
American Indians have experienced the same politicization of their hair. And wearing warbonnet and missing cultural items, or cheap knockoffs of art and cultural items is disrespectful, painful, and often seen as a form of red face.
Sharing culture would be learning more about the culture, buying from Black and Native businesses, artists, and learning what they want to share. Some aspects of cultural sharing are you are privileged to observe the cultural practice (you are invited to the cookout, you aren't holding a Black themed cookout) some aspects are you are privileged to take part in the practice (wearing clothing created by Black designers, wearing jewelry made by Native American artists) and any credit and monetary benefit goes to people in that culture.
ifallallthetime@reddit
The people who screech about cultural appropriation are a stupid and loud tiny minority
Chemical_Estate6488@reddit
Not really. You might be called out for it online, but most people don’t care about how you wear your heart or the way you speak
legendary-rudolph@reddit
No one cares in real life. It's only a small group of the terminally online who even discuss this sort of crap.
Tier1TechSupport@reddit
According to a poll of 1500 Americans, 22% say cultural appropriation is wrong, 58% say it is harmless, 19% say they have no opinion and 1% say they aren't sure. For me (poll of one), I agree with the majority.
Dorianscale@reddit
A lot of people just don’t really understand the line between cultural appropriation, cultural appreciation, and stereotyping
For your example of someone wearing a sombrero, and a poncho, I would give that as an example of someone being purposefully stereotypical. I’m mexican. No one is running around in a sombrero unless you’re a mariachi. That feels both ignorant and insulting because that person isn’t enjoying Mexican culture they’re enjoying Mexican stereotypes. As a counter example, I wouldn’t care if someone wore a guayabera, or a Mexican embroidered blouse. Those are examples of things that people actually wear and I would see that as someone enjoying my culture.
With the hairstyle thing, the black community has faced a lot of discrimination over natural hairstyles. Haircare in general is a big part of black culture in the US. In the past, people of other races felt no backlash over wearing these hairstyles in comparison. So there’s some sensitivity around the whole thing and the previous double standards. To appreciate someone’s culture you need to understand it first. And if you’re doing or wearing a cultural item despite that groups general discomfort, then you’re not really appreciating it.
At the end of the day it just comes down to respecting what people feel about things and respecting the history behind the feelings
Imaginary_Match_52@reddit
As long as you’re not white, you’re probably fine.
TinsleyLynx@reddit
Not in the sane parts of the country. The internet is full of loud morons that want to feel like they're better than everyone else, especially on reddit.
FionaGoodeEnough@reddit
Giving people shit for saying “y’all” or enjoying hiphop was either your ex’s siblings pulling your leg, or being unreasonable.
True_Distribution685@reddit
Americans today tend to be really sensitive lol
Any-Concentrate-1922@reddit
It really depends on the context. But the reason is because the US has a history of white people wearing clothing or hairstyles associated with other races in an offensive or mocking way. And in some cases, like a white person dressed as a Native American chief as a Halloween costume, it's disrespectful. It's someone wearing the clothing of a culture in a dismissive, disrespectful, willfully ignorant manner. Plus, white people historically subjugated and killed Native Americans, so it's doubly offensive.
NWXSXSW@reddit
It depends on the reason. I can’t think of a good reason for a white guy to be wearing a sombrero and a poncho, except if it’s his birthday and he’s at a shitty Mexican restaurant that caters to the Caucasian palate. I don’t see very many Mexican people wearing those things either, so to me I would see that one as mockery of someone else’s culture.
Other examples could just be functional — sometimes clothing from other cultures just suits your lifestyle better than the stuff your own people have. Or it can come from a true appreciation for someone else’s culture, as in the case of the kimono being worn by a Black woman who has an affinity and appreciation for the culture of gay men.
WindyWindona@reddit
It's more about disrespect or commodification. There are sensitivities around it, since you'll have some schools where black kids are mocked for having cornrows while their white peers are getting praised for it, people wearing Halloween costumes that are traditional dress for other cultures, and the like.
Generally sharing culture is fine. If you buy a shirt or moccasins from Native American designers, nobody's going to bat an eye and will probably think it's cool. However, if you wear a feathered headdress that's going to raise some ire because of its specific meaning.
I think people in the US are also more sensitive because of commodification, and how different being a minority in the US is than being from abroad. Sort of like how dumb stereotypes of Americans in anime won't get more than a head shake in the US, but I assume someone who's American and living in Japan with only those stereotypes might feel a lot more hurt.
n00bdragon@reddit
It matters whether its done in appreciation or mockery. Appreciating or incorporating culture is seen as one of the loftiest goods. Mocking culture is a terrible sin.
There exists an American culture of mostly (but not exclusively) white people who have been culturally trained to be extra vigilant for the second type. They are hyper sensitive and especially wary of anyone they deem "white" doing or partaking or representing anything they deem "non white" and will automatically assume the worst. The intentions mean well. They want to avoid cultural mockery but they often shoot first and ask questions later. You should be careful around people you suspect belong to this group and empathetic and honest with them when you find them.
South_tejanglo@reddit
It is not taken seriously by the majority of people. This website is a terrible representation of what America is actually like unfortunately
famousanonamos@reddit
Only some people get upset, and they just happen to be the loudest. People who don't care don't comment. And more often that not the people that are mad aren't even part of the culture, just mad on their behalf.
iuabv@reddit
It's very contextual. If all cultures were treated equally and with equal understanding by outsiders, there would be no need to be concerned about cultural appropriation. But unfortunately that's not the case, not just in the US but generally.
The US has a lot of cultural diversity, so while cultural sharing/blending is very common, cultural appropriation comes up too.
Cultural appropriation is a kind of double bind in which you're still being discriminated against for practicing something in your culture (or at least suffering the effects of past discrimination), but the group in power is allowed to borrow from it and sample it without suffering the same consequences. Like if you were made fun of for having Indian food at lunch, it's galling to see it rebranded as a "superfood" or to see a white influencer "invent" a meal you've eaten your whole life as part of their cookbook deal.
For example, black women have historically been discriminated against for styles like dreadlocks, so to see white people engage in those styles kind of adds insult to injury.
Cultural appropriation often also involves detaching things from their source - which is easier to do when the source is a siloed minority without much power to say "hey we've been doing that for years!" or "hey that's actually a really important cultural symbol to us not an accessory!" or "Hey that food is actually supposed to be for breakfast!"
But of course the line between cultural appropriation and cultural exchange tends to depend on the person.
On_my_last_spoon@reddit
This is an appropriation vs appreciation issue.
Really it boils down to whether you are taking cultural things and claiming them to be your own or you’re giving credit. It also is determined by the amount of cultural theft that has occurred. Black people in the US have consistently been stripped of their culture via the slave trade then had their hairstyles deemed “inappropriate” in professional and school settings. So, non-black people wearing black hairstyles ignores this issue.
It’s not bad to appreciate another culture, but awareness of the praise you may get for doing the same thing someone from the culture might get criticized for is important.
Fit-Vanilla-3405@reddit
There’s a lot of conflation of this words meaning.
Appropriation is generally taking something from another culture, usually something they are not lauded for and draws negative attention (either now or historically) and being of a privileged group — and then monetizing it in some way.
You don’t have to be getting money per se, but using it to up your status or spread the idea as yours.
Other instances of problematic behavior can be:
Wearing something in a mocking way Wearing something that is very real as a costume (this might be the sombrero) Wearing something sacred or historically important as light hearted fashion Wearing something necessary for many as just fashion
These are not appropriation ‘technically’ but might be bunched in with that category
DistributionNorth410@reddit
That's a bingo....
Slamantha3121@reddit
There is a bit of a history in America of people wearing 'black face', black hairstyles, and native American headdresses as a costume or a caricature. Black people have often been targeted for their hairstyles in school and work environments with people considering them unprofessional and punishing them or forcing them to change it. So, when non-black people wear these hair styles some people get salty. I think dreds on non black people are cringe, but it is not my business to go around scolding people. They don't own every kind of braid though, they are not the only culture with curly hair.
I do not think that wearing a Kimono or sombrero is the same, though. That seems like cultural appreciation rather than appropriation to me. Those cultures don't typically have a negative association with others wearing them. When I was in Japan, they seemed excited I wanted to buy one. I love cooking food from other cultures and experiencing their music and traditions! I think the people who go over the top with the cultural appropriation thing are viewing everything through the lens of American racism, which may not be relevant or missing cultural context.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Sounds like a fair reaction NGL. Imagining that, it feels embittering.
I love experiencing other cultures too but I was wondering if that would be frowned on if I visited America.
curlyhead2320@reddit
For the specific example of East Asians wearing Black hairstyles, there is also the cultural context that racism against Blacks is common in those countries. So when K-pop (or Jpop, etc) artists use their hairstyles and the trappings of hip-hop (a musical style created by Black people) to appear “cool” and rake in money, while not addressing - and occasionally participating in - anti-Black racism, that is problematic.
If I (not Black) were to see a random East Asian on the street in cornrows, I’d reserve judgement unless I knew more about them, if they are sincerely participating in Black culture or just because they like the look.
DowntownRow3@reddit
Yes, cultural appropriation is hard to explain if you haven’t grown up in the US and experienced your culture being erased and bashed on (along with multiple generations of your family and bloodline) and for it to suddenly become cool, acceptable and “trendy” when white people start doing it, and often having sometimes zero knowledge on what they’re using and where it came from, or what it actually is.
It’s not just a matter of a few bad eggs being out there, it’s a larger social issue that repeatedly occurs.
Cacafuego@reddit
Yeah, and just think of this kind of thing happening constantly. A friend of mine was mildly called out for wearing a dashiki shirt at a party, once. On the one hand, he just thought it was a nice shirt. On the other hand, it's another example of black culture going out of its way to embrace its otherness and emphasize its non-European-ness, only to have a bunch of white people go "ooh, that's pretty!" and take it.
It's a bit of a minefield. I'd do what you like, ignore the white allies, and be respectful to the people whose cultural elements you're adopting. Just know that in the US sometimes these things are like banners for the people to rally around and create something of their own in a sea of assimilation, so there can be a strong sense of ownership.
unrealvirion@reddit
There are many braids that aren't seen as black anyway. French braids, for example are more common with white people.
LeadDiscovery@reddit
No! woke culture has finally been roundly rejected in the past year.
America has always been a country that has enjoyed our rich melting pot society. We grew up being part of numerous traditions from multiple cultures. From Saint Patty's day, to Saint Lucia... to OctoberFest and wearing lederhosen, to Ferragosto, to Pierogi and eating Kielbasa, many American's who are not even Christian celebrate Christmas, we love a great Chinese dragon festival, heck we even spun the dreidel when we were kids with other families... and we were not Jewish, but they were.
For many years Americans have embraced culture, yes there has always been idiots who made fun of or demeaned another culture, human behavior allows for idiots, but these are very few. The large majority of us loves our blended culture, celebrates our commonalities finds interest and enjoyment from our different backgrounds and enjoys the combined community we have built.
BossDjGamer@reddit
America is a melting pot. It’s not appropriation, it’s assimilation whether you want to admit it or not.
Terrible_Role1157@reddit
In high school, I wore a Chinese-inspired dress to a school dance. Caught a lot of flack for being racist, which sucked as a white kid who just thought non-American stuff was neat. In college, I was friends with a lot of international students. Without fail, showing pictures of that dress made me instantly popular in the international housing. I got introduced to family members on video calls, got care packages for years, was generally beloved and adored. “You like this? Don’t you think it’s weird though, because it’s Chinese
QuarterMaestro@reddit
It's interesting. Growing up as a small ethnic minority (e.g. Asian-Americans) is a very different experience from growing up as the dominant ethnicity in a powerful homogeneous country (e.g. Han Chinese in China or Japanese in Japan). So some Asian-Americans have adopted cultural appropriation "rules" that were then adopted by the wider American society (or at least the progressive part of the society).
Remarkable_Table_279@reddit
Kinda odd that assumed it was a costume…maybe even R…
prettyorganic@reddit
In GENERAL, if you’re not profiting off of someone else’s culture it’s fine.
Braids and dreadlocks are a weird one because there’s hair discrimination that Black people experience when they use protective styles like that, so seeing non-Black people wear such styles without consequence feels like racism, plus those styles are generally DAMAGING for non-Black hair types (with some exceptions).
Hair politics aside (as a white person I don’t want to touch this further), generally, fashion, dance, cuisine etc culture sharing is encouraged if you’re buying/learning from the culture directly, and using it in its appropriate setting. The issue is more when Wal-Mart decides to sell kimonos or a white food blogger tries to pass off a cultural recipe as their own.
unrealvirion@reddit
Also most white people can't physically get dreadlocks anyway. Straight hair can mat, but it won't look like dreadlocks. I think some Jews (Jewish hair texture and Black hair texture can be similar) and Hispanic people could probably get dreadlocks but other than that, no.
No-Sun-6531@reddit
It doesn’t just feel like racism, it IS racism.
Lanceparte@reddit
White or Asian folks with braids / corn rows in the American South is not accepted because of the history and power dynamics of Black hair. Black people were not allowed to wear their natural hair on "professional" spaces for a very long time, and we're often made fun of / harassed / stigmatized for their hair texture. For this reason, a non-Black person using those hair styles is seen as kind of rude and unfair like "my people weren't able to embrace our hair for a long time and now you come along and it's just okay for you to do it?" That kind of vibe.
Other parts of Black culture are more widely shared and celebrated, like music, cooking, and literature. Hair is just different because of that history.
justagrrrrrl@reddit
I'm East Asian and grew up in Texas. Wtf? I've been using "y'all" my whole life.
OsvuldMandius@reddit
The very idea of "cultural appropriation" is divisive in America. Some people think cultural appropriate is an issue, and a subset of them feel the need to speak out about it (a lot... and loudly... and sometimes at inappropriate times....). The most charitable thing I'll say about these people is that I have seen some cringey things done as Halloween costumes that I wish I never would have seen, so I can get behind speaking out against that.
Other people think that the first group of people....most especially the ones who speak out a lot....are themselves the problem, sometimes labelling them with the neo-pejorative term 'woke.' The most charitable thing I'll say about these people is that I, too, have rolled my eyes at college kids who say white people shouldn't be allowed to open a burrito stand.
My take is that the modern nation of America is a mish-mosh of cultures all shamelessly involved in a national culture orgy for the last 150 years or so, and that getting squeamish about it now is the height of stupidity.
JueshiHuanggua@reddit
Depends on how you do it. If you like something from another culture like food or clothing, no one is gonna bat an eye. Sometimes people are annoyed that they were shamed for the culture as kids and don't like that people think its cool to be into it now. Usually they have matured past this.
If you try to educated someone about their own culture, I've had it happen to me, we will think you're dumb. I had someone explain that I was wrong and had dumpling and wontons mixed up, they knew what it was from their White mom getting soup dumplings at Trader. Joe's. If you're not a minority, but have extensive studies in the field and give presentations about it. Most would be happy that you have studied so much in the culture as long as they were dedicated. There are some really popular talented White Japanese traditional musicians. Overall if you are genuine about learning about a culture, people are happy to share.
Appropriating is more like you copy pasted something from a culture and said you founded it. I havent seen it in a long time though, so I can't remember any. Happened during early 2000s where companies tried to get new ideas and slapped on stuff from different cultures, then said they came up with it from scratch.
Flibbernodgets@reddit
"Cultural appropriation" is nonsense and the people who get upset about it aren't worth listening to.
WrongJohnSilver@reddit
Cultural appropriation is something that is more strongly noticed in the US, mainly because we have minority cultures that are majority cultures nowhere.
Two factors are needed for something to be appropriation: a majority culture adopts a feature of a minority culture, and the minority culture gets shit for the same feature. It's a form of cultural erasure, where the feature is okay if the majority does it, but the minority just has to stop being so minority all the time.
Now, if the culture has a place where they are the majority, they're immune to this. That's why, for example, Japanese people don't mind Westerners wearing kimonos; it can't possibly be a threat to them, because Japan remains Japan, and they'll never not be the authority on kimonos.
That said, there are many times when it goes wrong; Asian-Americans and Latino Americans are minorities in the US, and although there are majority culture sources outside the US, the original culture isn't identical to the Americanized culture. So, you might still find Japanese Americans (or, often enough, white Americans) complain that wearing a kimono is cultural appropriation, even though Japanese people would laugh at that.
In my opinion (as a Mexican-American who appears to be a white American), it's important to recognize the difference between actual appropriation that erases culture, and performative appropriation that merely tries to find people to blame. The first, it is right to recognize and be sensitive to. The second, is really just segregation by another mechanism.
the_green_witch-1005@reddit
So this is complicated. America has a very long history of oppressing and diminishing other cultures - specifically people of color. People from these cultural backgrounds get frustrated when they see (typically white people) flaunting certain hairstyles that used to be considered "illegal and unprofessional". For example, dreadlocks have been considered "unkempt" and people were kept from getting jobs due to wearing that hairstyle. Now, white people have made them into a fad, so suddenly dreads are accepted. It's a slap in the face to the Black community.
There is a fine line in appropriating culture and appreciating culture. It typically comes down to the consent of that particular community's culture. It's hard to explain to people that come from more monoculture nations who may not understand the nuances behind racism in a multicultural society.
Illuminate90@reddit
Not in my or most people I knows opinion. I’m fro A red af state and a smaller town and it was encouraged to learn and share those kind of things. It was mostly Mexican cultural stuff as we had a plant that brought in a large population for the work but there was a couple one of families that were polish, Italian, I’m not sure where they were from in particular but an Asian family did well moving in and running a restaurant. Some people are actually just assholes about it in this day and age, we at one point did welcome learning but at some point both the sharing of culture and incoming people being unwilling to learn the culture that existed became at odds for the US.
Prowindowlicker@reddit
Getting mad at someone because they use “yall” or listen to hip hop is wack.
Yall is used all over the south and now apparently everywhere else.
Would’ve been nice when I growing up tho if the use of yall was this widespread. Cause at the time i remember my teachers asking me not to talk like I was from the rural south which I was from.
It wasn’t proper to say yall. It was you all and that was that.
YourOldCellphone@reddit
White Americans seem to like to try and gatekeep culture they don’t belong to. From my experience, you can do any of the things you mentioned, and people generally like to see someone else explore their culture. Just gotta do it in good faith
The12th_secret_spice@reddit
Depends where you are, but still, I think it’s a very small minority that gets upset.
I like the video of the liberal young white folks getting offended by someone in a poncho and sombrero but when the Mexicans saw it, they laughed and weren’t offended in the slightest.
Good thing about America is you can do you and if someone gets offended, you can tell them to piss off.
Brother_To_Coyotes@reddit
It’s only a problem within one American political faction. The American left has incorporated a lot of critical theory and this has made them insanely touchy on race, ethnicity, and culture. Those people basically live in meltdown. They’re the same people vandalizing Tesla cars right now. You can ignore the Baizuo but they’re likely to commit acts of political violence where they have the highest concentrations.
MyUsername2459@reddit
"Y'all" isn't specific to any race, it's more regional to the southern US. . .and we don't mind other people using it at all.
Y'all are welcome to use y'all.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Thank y'all
Bubble_Lights@reddit
It's really bizarre that they said listening to hip hop was cultural appropriation. So like, to them (the people giving you shit), no one is allowed to like a certain kind of music? Also, y'all is a very common word used in the USA, especially in the south. It's not a black thing, it's an everyone thing. That's like saying you can't use the word "Hey". I think they need to rethink this.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
They were very closed minded. I think it bothered them I wasn't like the stereotypical accented Filipinos they typically deal with because I went to international school and was capable of code switching my vocabulary, grammar and accent based on my company, so they often attacked me for the way I talked.
DrunkScarletSpider@reddit
As a native Texan, I hereby extend you permission to use the contraction "y'all" as a shortened form of " you all". People can't just restrict culturally diffuse regional terms because they're too ignorant to understand they aren't the only ones that use that term.
Hip hop is good music. I'm more of a metalhead, but different people have different taste. Ultimately, one of the points of music is communication.I don't get why someone would be mad that you were exposing yourself to the perspectives of members of their community.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Love that ahaha thanks
DudeThatAbides@reddit
Some think that they own a culture that others can’t freely adopt as they choose. I don’t bother to give them much attention. I’ll put cornrows in my hair, wear my Mexican poncho and my hat backwards while listening to gangsta rap, eat my poutine with chopsticks, celebrate Christmas, Kwanza, Festivus and Hanukkah in the same year. Idgaf. Appropriation? Fuck you. Appreciation.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
A friend once called me out for eating Indian food with chopsticks. ahahaha
She was just messing with me but it was so amusing.
cbrooks97@reddit
This varies quite a bit. Certain groups are very concerned about "cultural appropriation". The rest of us aren't. I've seen several stories of people getting called out about something ... by people who weren't part of the culture in question, but when people of that actual culture were asked about it, they were delighted that this person was showing interest in their culture.
And they do not own the word "y'all"; feel free to use it to your heart's content.
EvernightStrangely@reddit
As long as you respect and acknowledge the origins of the clothing/practice you're fine, even better if it has personal significance to you. It becomes a problem when you willfully ignore its origins, try to pass it off as your own cultural invention, and/or misuse it to make a mockery of the culture it comes from.
Wolfman1961@reddit
I'm a lifelong New Yorker, exposed to different cultures all my life.
Why would it be "rude" for someone to express themselves through their culture?
Dark_Web_Duck@reddit
It's fine with normal people of any culture.
belac4862@reddit
I was born and raised in New England. It's on the Nother Eastern part of the USA. That region is sometimes called yankies. As opposed to southerners. We had a war between us. And some people still pike to bring that up.
Anyway, I now live in Virginia, and I've picked up saying yall. I'm a pastie white boy. I look and act nothing like a southerner. But nobody really cares I say words that aren't I've picked up from the region.
Pitiful_Structure899@reddit
Not really it’s just radical liberals who want to be offended. Same ones who will rampantly downvote this and call themselves social justice warriors for it.
Ok-Truck-5526@reddit
I think it’s more about a minority of politicized people who get really wound up about “ cultural appropriation.” To me there is a big difference between, say, a person using a sacred symbol in a flippant/ inappropriate way, like a Kardashian wearing a bindi on her forehead, and, say, a yoga practitioner wearing an “ Om” shirt or jewelry because they actually understand what it means , because they understand the Hindu underpinnings of yoga. It!s all about content, to me, abd the thoughtfulness or lack thereof in choosing to borrow sine thing from another culture.
Bluemonogi@reddit
I think it becomes more of a problem when you are appropriating culture from groups who have had their culture taken from them, not allowed to be expressed or made a mockery of in the past. The history and meaning the cultural elements comes from may make a difference. Someone might be using a piece of culture in a superficial or wrong way that they do not understand.
I think one should use caution and thoughtfulness about adopting certain aspects of another culture.
cant_think_of_one_@reddit
I'm not really sure how people take it in the US (so this comment is a bit off-topic), but this is bullshit.
Firstly, the oldest example of dreadlocks we know of historically is by Europeans. It is a hair style that has obviously been developed independently in lots of cultures. Shaming someone for having it because of the colour of their skin is racism, pure and simple. If anyone shouldn't be allowed to wear it as a style, people with primarily African ancestry shouldn't be, since they weren't the first to develop it as far as we know.
Secondly, being inspired by another culture, even if you don't fully understand it or do it in a way that people approve of, is how culture grows. Nothing is a purely original idea. People don't own culture. Stop fucking policing what people can like or wear etc based on their cultural heritage.
Almost all accusations of cultural appropriation are racism, pure and simple.
The only examples of valid accusations of cultural appropriation are where people are denying the origin of things, or claiming a false origin, like people who think that dreadlocks originated only among people with African roots.
People trying to police culture like this can fuck off and respect people's freedom of expression. Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean someone should not be allowed to do it, even if their ancestors did oppress yours. Racism, and the legacy of past racism, are real problems, but the solution isn't more racism.
baalroo@reddit
"Cultural appropriation" is actually when someone takes a sacred or important piece of someone else's culture, and turns it into a kitchy joke for their own purposes. So, like a white american putting on a sombrero and a poncho and walking around with a fake Cheech Marin accent and slamming tequila shots might be an example.
Otoh, if a white dude thinks sombreros are fucking cool, and wears one because he likes it, that's all good.
At least, that's the difference as I've always understood it.
daveescaped@reddit
It’s like arguing about pizza. Which came from Italy. Made with tomatoes. That the Italians got from the Americas. While they make pasta. That they got from Asia.
Cultural exchange is ubiquitous. Insisting that any culture can own a food, clothing, hairstyle etc is nonsense.
That said, if you adopt something from someone, do it respectfully. Acknowledge where that idea came from.
SapienSRC@reddit
Exactly this. Cultural exchange is so common most don't even realize it's happen. It's important to just not be an ass about it.
northbyPHX@reddit
Cultural appropriation is a concept that is wildly misguided, and I say this as a person who leans left on social issues (at least, I’m allowed to think like that for now. I don’t know for how much longer).
There’s malappropriation of culture, or taking aspects of a culture and making for of said culture with it. That’s absolutely wrong. However, appreciation of culture and cross-pollination of culture is merely a pursuit of happiness, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Schnelt0r@reddit
I'm liberal, but have to disagree with that second paragraph. The first part.
I don't think comedy should have a limit. You say something and see who laughs at it. Some things are funny, some are beyond the pail. Pale? Probably pail.
Whatever the word, you can tell a lot about someone based on how they laugh or groan at a joke.
northbyPHX@reddit
I mean it more in the sense of people appropriating it on purpose to make fun of it in a racist manner, in a way that is way beyond mere jokes. More like “wearing a kimono and putting on heavy makeup and call yourself an “easy woman” because you’re of a certain East Asian heritage,” or “speaking in gibberish and eating dog and pretend you’re Chinese” kind of malappropriation.
There are times when a joke goes too far. There are also times when you use a joke deliberately as an insult to other ethnicities.
Chemical-Mix-6206@reddit
cough Mickey Rooney in Breakfaat at Tiffanys cough
northbyPHX@reddit
I also don’t believe in judging works from the past with today’s moral and ethical standards. Such comparisons are always unfair because there are always things that were acceptable (or just slightly risqué) before, but are no longer considered acceptable now.
I was talking about judging today’s works, using our standards currently.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I do. When I hear shit like that from an old piece of media, it makes me glad I don't live back then.
It's like Louis CK's bit about the black guy with a time machine. Any further back than Michael Jackson's first solo album is a big fat nope.
northbyPHX@reddit
I totally agree. I wouldn’t want to live back then as well. I’m just more cognizant that the past is really different, and I wouldn’t apply today’s standards to the past.
It doesn’t mean I don’t find it wrong personally and wouldn’t support those works of art by listening/watching it. Destroying it is also not an option as well because you need the bad to teach people why it’s wrong.
tara_tara_tara@reddit
This is a big issue in K-pop. Some rappers wear braids and then rap in a blaccent. They dress like what they perceive American hip-hop artists dress like. It’s even worse if they use bronzer or some other cosmetic to look darker.
That is 100% appropriation and they have been called out for it countless times by Western fans, but their excuse is always that they didn’t know. You think after a few years of claiming that you don’t know, you would know.
Remarkable_Table_279@reddit
I’ve seen literal black face in Korean tv…and read a Chinese novel where a character hid…by putting shoe polish on their face and hands and went to “practice Chinese” with foreigners..including black people…no one noticed including the black people she was talking to…hope no one tries that in reality…or if they do it’s on camera
The_Bjorn_Ultimatum@reddit
The whole "appropriating" another person's culture thing is a load of crap. The people who actually view the world like this are some of the most insufferable people to be around.
xRVAx@reddit
Everybody says y'all in Virginia
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Interestingly, they're from Virginia. Was I not allowed to say it cause I'm not American? lol
NCC1701-Enterprise@reddit
This is going to depend heavily on the area it is happening in. Some areas are far more sensitive to so-called "cultural appropriation" than other areas. If the only avenue you have for learning about the US is our media outlets then you are not even close to getting an accurate picture of the country. The media thrives on conflict and in the absence of actual conflict they exaggerate things to make conflict.
Remarkable_Table_279@reddit
I wear Indian salwar kameez on occasion…i find them beautiful and practical. when i was young and let’s be honest kinda rude I used to say “US clothing is boring…why can’t we make pretty and practical clothes like this.” My Indian coworkers have complemented me & one even liked to arrange my dupatta in various styles… I especially like to wear them flying because I feel more comfortable-tho now I’ll grab a pretty tunic or dress and leggings and a shawl and DIY it so my nice stuff stays safe at home. I’ve no clue what people at airport think but I don’t actually care…all I know is my outfit comes with its own blanket!
That being said…there’s a fine line between appropriation and appreciation…I’ve worn a Sari once because it felt it was beautiful & I wanted to be very dressy that day…looking back I wouldn’t do it again…because people might have seen it as a costume & it wasn’t…
Then you have people who couldn’t care less about the culture behind it and straight up wear stuff to costume parties.
Remarkable_Table_279@reddit
General note…I’ve noticed that most people who get up in arms about appropriation aren’t part of the culture…they’re typically Caucasian
Remarkable_Table_279@reddit
Also I can tell you at least one mute Korean lady around here doesn’t think wearing a hanbok is appropriation…she forcibly dressed me in one at church one morning…I was very confused & thought maybe it was everyone…nope just me.
Then she gave it to me…I will not be wearing it again…I need to find a home for it with someone who will appreciate it.
spacepope68@reddit
When cultures meet each other there will be things that someone in the 'other' culture will like and adopt things from the 'other' culture, That is not appropriation, appropriation is denying a culture to speak its own language or practice its beliefs or wear their own clothing, like what whites did to the First Nations in North America. Anything else is pretty much just someone likes that bit of clothing, or that music or this and that way of doing things.
Sullygurl85@reddit
It is one thing to say I'm wearing braids and another thing to say hey look at this new hairstyle I invented. I think a good example is Travis Kelce in an interview. They asked about his haircut and how guys were getting the "Kelce" haircut. He was like no no no. I just have a fade. That has been around forever. Paraphrasing of course.
GSilky@reddit
"Appropriation" is not using things from a different culture. It is the abuse of items from another culture. A classic example that appears every generation since the 60s is Brooklyn club kids dressing up like Native Americans (a la the Village People) for a night out at the club. The stereotypical garb is often ceremonial costume and it hits as well as a person dressed as a bishop behaving badly does for a super Catholic. Another example is white Australian girls using hip-hop themes to appear "street" to her suburban white girl fans, who also have no attachment to hip-hop culture, in an effort to sell records. It's offensive because nobody involved is learning anything about hip-hop culture, but they don't realize it.
As far as "y'all" goes, I'm a Colorado Jew, I use it all the time as a folksy in with people. It has the added benefit, I have found, of being gender neutral as a term for a group. It's not "Black", it's country, mostly southern. Which actually goes to a really interesting point in American culture, Black people have an accent that is mostly the same as white southern. Most people don't get the opportunity to deal with white southerners who aren't on TV, they have the same accent. Even stranger, after the Great Migration, when Black Americans left the south for the Midwest and west, they were forced to settle together, maintaining the southern accent. This accent was passed to new generations outside of the south, with modifications from the surrounding white society, to create AAVE, or Ebonics.
spontaneous-potato@reddit
I haven't seen it in the parts of the east coast that I've been to, and I've been to a huge chunk of the east coast now for work and for my own time off of work. Maybe it's because I meet up with people who genuinely want to share their culture with others, but no one has knocked me for asking about someone's culture since I've been here.
If anything, the most common thing I get is people asking me if I'm Chinese from China, which I'm not. I get this a lot from people who immigrated from Mainland China, and I tell them that I was born and raised in California and that I'm Filipino. I look very Chinese because my grandmother most likely immigrated from China to the Philippines in the 1800's, and my mom is pretty much a spitting image of my grandmother, and I also inherited my grandmother's looks (minus my beard).
I'm pretty invested in my parents' culture since I'm very close with my family in the Philippines, so if someone asks me about the Philippines or the culture, I'll share something about it that I was exposed to, like tinikling, carinosa, maglalatik, or for more of the martial arts interest, eskrima. If it involves food, I can easily talk about my favorite Filipino dishes all day (Like dinuguan) and my spin on it as a Filipino-American.
If someone who isn't Filipino wants to dress up like an Igorot, I don't get offended by it. The times I've seen someone who isn't Filipino dressing like an Igorot was in Baguio City, and all the tourists (Myself included in that) usually ask about the history, and aren't there to talk down to Filipinos there. The same goes if someone who isn't Filipino and wants to wear a barong. I'm definitely not offended by it because the way I see it, they want to wear something that is definitely Filipino, and it's a beautiful piece of clothing to have on, usually for weddings is where I see it.
As far as I'm aware and have been exposed to, the only times I've really seen people talk down and demean Filipino people and Filipino culture are other Asians, and that's usually online in subreddits where there is a very blatant dislike for Filipinos because they're "Jungle Asians". Outside of the internet, I've never met anyone who talks down to Filipino people or the culture.
As for others, I've met people who immigrated from Kenya, Nigeria, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Slovakia, Georgia (the country, not the state), and many other countries I can't name right off the top of my head. I like getting to know about other cultures, and I tell them that. From what I've experienced, people are very happy to share about their culture and the country they immigrated from with me.
CreepyOldGuy63@reddit
People who whinge about “Cultural Appropriation” are too ignorant to matter.
uncle-brucie@reddit
Just don’t hang with twats
ExoXerxesTheXIII@reddit
Well, the issue is more so that Americans are known for cultural "hijackings" or appropriation moreso than probably anyone or any other group so I think that's where a lot of the push back, biases and disagreements stem.
JuanMurphy@reddit
Most of the people offended by cultural appropriation are just people looking for something to be offended about. The two examples you used braids and y’all aren’t exclusive to one community.
National_Work_7167@reddit
As far as I can tell this kind of stuff isn't common in Mass, at least where I'm from in Western Mass. I see a lot of this discussion online, though I don't think this is much of a thing irl
AllswellinEndwell@reddit
Cultural appropriation is just another term that broke out of academics and is now wildly misused.
The viral video of the Black Girl giving a white dude shit because he had dreads is a great example. She failed to realize a simple fact: Other cultures, including white cultures, wore dreads.
She assumed she was the arbiter of what culture was and wasn't.
Is there such a thing as "Black Culture"? Some academics claim it was appropriated from poor whites in the south. I'm a "white" guy, yet I own a "Happy Coat", a traditional Japanese festival wear, is it cultural appropriation if it was given to me by a Japanese person with great pride?
Well what about black face. Surely that could be cultural appropriation for negative reasons? It's just plain offensive.
The other fallacy of cultural appropriation is that it assigns a victim status to everyone. Being a victim also means you have no self determination. Its paternalistic if you ask me.
Netflixandmeal@reddit
Typically only social justice warriors care and call it appropriation.
Liberals care more about you appropriating another’s culture than the culture you are imitating does.
anneofgraygardens@reddit
It's not rude to share culture. Appropriation happens when a privileged group is allowed to do things by society that a less privileged group isn't. For instance, throughout American history, black people have been shamed for their natural hair texture. It has often been suggested that Black hair is "unprofessional", leading to many Black people using chemical treatments to straighten their hair.
And then white people come along and do their hair in traditionally black styles (like braids or cornrows) and it shows up in fashion magazines as "the cute new hairstyle for summer!". It's not surprising that black people find this infuriating.
This is just an example.
LegitimateSale987@reddit
Then the response shouldn't be "white people can't wear their hair like that." It should be "black people should be able to wear their hair like that" and be treated equally to whites who do.
No-Sun-6531@reddit
Yeah but the likelihood of Black people being left alone to be themselves and treated equally is pretty much non existent.
Far_Salary_4272@reddit
My Cherokee grandmother would like a word about blacks owning braids.
Braids have been around since hair was born.
Groundbreaking_Bus90@reddit
Cornrows aren't the same style of braid as what native Americans do.
Far_Salary_4272@reddit
Yes, I know.
Groundbreaking_Bus90@reddit
So you're being pedantic?
Far_Salary_4272@reddit
Not at all. The poster mentioned both, braids and cornrows. I was merely pointing out no one culture owns braids.
NikkiBlissXO@reddit
I think OP commenter was using braids as a catch all term vs naming each style of braids that black women use to style their hair. There are so many options and different styles lumping them under the umbrella is easier for the sake of conversation
Far_Salary_4272@reddit
That’s cool. I just wanted to make the point because I hear it so often.
I swear, if there are aliens and they have hair, they are wearing braids.
Meilingcrusader@reddit
I would say there is a loud but fairly small minority who say stuff like this. And the funniest thing is that we pretty universally love it when people like our culture. There's been this commercial lately with Japanese friends going on vacation to Nashville and line dancing in cowboy hats that really makes me smile. I don't get why some people get so whiny, it is great to learn more about each other's culture and appreciate them. I think it's a hypersensitivity that certain activist types have to race for various reasons
Spud8000@reddit
that is mostly B.S.
Yes when you see Elizabeth Warren claiming to be native american, and getting preferential treatment for it. Or Buffy Saint Marie claiming to be inigenous Canadian native, but is not.....Americans abhor that.
but generally only super leftists whine about this appropriation stuff. there is not harm wearing a sombrero and eating Mexican food on Cinco de Mayo, for instance! it is fun and actually SHARES understanding of other cultures.
OncomingStormDW@reddit
So, what you’re describing is called “Racism”.
Americans love giving new names to it to, well, white wash it.
That said, I haven’t heard “Cultural Appropriation” in a few years. I’d like to hope this is because the people who were throwing it around wisened up…
But I doubt it.
Appropriate-Food1757@reddit
Appropriation is bullshit.
clearly_not_an_alt@reddit
Cultural appropriation is a stupid concept unless it's being used to denigrate the culture.
Getting cornrows on vacation because you think they look cool should be fine. Getting cornrows because you are dressing as a gangster for a party is problematic
For the most part, people don't actually care, but the ones that do are loud and annoying about it.
ucbiker@reddit
In general, no. Things are more complicated at the edges. And neither people knee jerk reacting to anyone “sharing culture” as appropriation; but also no one saying “there’s no such thing” are entirely correct.
PsychologicalMall374@reddit
I literally hate that everyone around the world is using "y'all". it's weird as fuck.
skipperoniandcheese@reddit
it depends. my rule of thumb is that if a black person would be reprimanded, denied a job, fired, or unfairly jailed for it, i won't do it.
brieflifetime@reddit
The problem is that you're talking about two different things.
One is cultural appropriation. Which can really be boiled down to someone with racial or ethnic power using symbols from a group without power to mock them. Like a white guy wearing a sombrero and making bad jokes with a shitty accent for a costume party. That's racist. Context is important. If someone (of any race) goes to Mexico and buys a sombrero from some local and wears it with pride because of.. reasons. No shitty jokes, no bad accent.. just.. loves their momento from their trip to another country.. not racist. Not appropriation.
You also have a scenario of individual people of color struggling with their place within the racial/ethnic hierarchy in the US. PoC will police other PoC and their choices due to this tension. I've been to parties as one of the only white attendees on several occasions where people will revoke others "black card" or "Mexican card" or.. pick a card. Turned around and gave me one. The person of color spoke too properly and I enjoy salsa.. 🤷 it's obviously bullshit but it's due to the racism our country is built on. I grew up listening to hip hop/r&b and eating Mexican food cooked by a Mexican-American 1st gen immigrant. But not a damn person would guess that by looking at me. The difference is that as a white person I get kudos for being me and an Asian person would probably get questioned for trying to be "not Asian" (from all PoC).
Oomlotte99@reddit
I think the appropriation thing is more a specific subset of online people, tbh. Out in the real world I think people enjoy sharing their culture and having others join in. If people are being respectful and enjoying culture, it’s fine, but if people are just taking something without respecting it or giving it it’s due or mocking it, then people might find it sketchy.
NHDart98@reddit
There is a certain segment of the population who get something (power, sense of superiority etc.) out of claiming they are oppressed. As actual oppression becomes scarcer, they have to try harder to find opportunities to claim it. Enjoy whatever music you like, share culture with others respectfully (don’t make fun of other people’s culture or make it ridiculous- the sombrero poncho and kimono examples might be getting there, since I suspect neither example would be used in a context where it would be used in that culture.)
Highly_Regarded_1@reddit
There are a super minority of people who like to gatekeep cultures. There isn't anything inherently wrong with adopting aspects of a foreign culture. Some people just like to overreact.
bienenstush@reddit
There is a difference between enjoying culture and appropriating it. I'm a white woman, so I feel it's my duty to be careful about how I choose to enjoy different cultures. I listen to music, watch media, and eat food from around the world. I would definitely wear an accessory or shoes that I bought while visiting a foreign country (ensuring that it doesn't have a pattern that is only for closed practices, etc).
I would not elect to speak in an accent that isn't my own (like mimicking an African-American or Japanese accent, for example). I would not wear the traditional clothing of another culture outside of appropriate contexts (I'm not wearing a sari, as gorgeous as they are, if I'm not part of a South Asian wedding, for example). I would never, ever, dress up in a way that makes me a caricature of another culture (a sombrero and poncho on Halloween, or one of those woven triangular hats worn in Asia. Not even getting into how offensive "Blackface" is).
It's kind of a fine line at times, but most educated people in the US understand what is ok to do, and what is not.
tlafle23196@reddit
I think to say it’s a fine line like many are is the wrong message to send. The only thing there should be a line regarding sharing culture is if you are slandering it. THAT should not happen. As a kid I fucking loved ninjas. Guess what? Not American culture. Should I have watched the “line” there. No. As a grown ass adult should I not go to a Chinese or Indian restaurant because I’m going to enjoy their food. That’s their culture as well. The people who say it’s a fine line because it’s appropriating culture are the closet racist. They don’t want their shit taken, so they feel like they have to make people feel like shit for enjoying someone else’s culture. Share what you want. When I was in the military I had the honor of experiencing lumpia. Holy crap. Dump that culture on me by the truckload. Screw people who tell you or make you feel like you can’t share.
RedLegGI@reddit
Were the land of the free for a reason. Do whatever you want. No one will care as long as you leave them alone and vice versa.
brod121@reddit
No, that’s just internet warriors. Americans love sharing their culture. A close friend of mine is Indian. His family has invited us to celebrate holidays with his grandparents, try traditional meals, and even come to a dance wearing his kurta. I’m Jewish, and my friends come over to celebrate Rosh Hashana and eat in the Sukkah.
SadProperty1352@reddit
It is a term that some people who want to seem better than others have started using. They for and denounce others thereby showing their own superiority.
It is used without understanding what it means. A common thought on this post is how blackface is wrong and therefore cultural appropriation which is false. It was an abhorrent practice but in no way was it appropriating African culture. There is no place in Africa that I know of where wearing black shoe polish on your face is part of their culture and that is what blackface in the ministerial shows where it originated was.
This term as far as I can tell is only used to separate one group from another. Must I have a 23 and me test to determine if I can eat bratwurst or spaghetti? I'm from the South and orka is a regional dish but it came from Africa. Must we eliminate it. Should Italians stop using tomatoes and polenta as both originated in the Americas. Would it be acceptable to say only Native Americans are allowed to die from the affects of tobacco? Of course not but smoking tobacco was actually appropriated from their cultural use of tobacco.
From my observation, this movement and it is one, had it's origins when Native Americans protested the use of racial slurs to name sports teams. Even though most people no longer realized words like redskin, braves, squaw, and others were originally used to put down and mark Native Americans as "other".
Using "cultural appropriation" as is being used now in absurd ways actually makes inappropriate behavior blend in and lose importance.
Ozone220@reddit
In addition to what others have said, it's worth noting that the word y'all is regional and everyone in the south says it, not just black people. I'm very white and I use it
ExtemporaneousLee@reddit
"Appropriation" is dead. Go live your life the way you want as long a you're not hurting anyone else. Wanna braid your hair, go weave! Wanna wear a Sombrero? Hat up! Feel like throwing on a Saree & feel the breeze - wrap yourself cozy, those things are beautiful. No one with 1/2 a brain and an ounce of common sense has a problem with people appreciating cultures other than their own.✌🏽
battlebarnacle@reddit
Americans are stupid with the gatekeeping of anything that’s “cool right now”.
HailMadScience@reddit
When it comes to appropriation, all you really need to watch out for is claiming any kind of ownership of, gatekeeping, or erasing the real histoy of something that isn't from your heritage. 99% of the time appropriation is actually a problem, this is why (eg, people who try to whitewash the history of rock music to erase black artists from jazz and the blues, etc).
People may claim you doing or wearing X is appropriation: those people are morons. Most often, they aren't even correct about the actual origins of the customs in question (the number of people who think braids didn't exist before black people came to America is insane). No one person owns a culture, so be respectful, and you will often be ok.
Stuffedwithdates@reddit
I think most world cultures se imitation as the sincerest form of flattery. And are indeed flattered by the attempt and slightly contemptuous when if the imitation is less than perfect.
1337b337@reddit
Those people are overly defensive and self-conscious about their own cultural identity and refuse to "share" it with anyone who isn't like them.
Grandemestizo@reddit
Cultural appropriation is a made up problem for well off liberals to fret over for lack of anything better to do.
FilthyFreeaboo@reddit
It’s not. It’s only offensive to upper middle class communists on the internet.
winteriscoming9099@reddit
Depends. If it’s done as a costume or in an inauthentic/mocking way or some way filled with malice, then it’s not good. Also, there’s certain things with more of a racist history that should be avoided entirely (for example, blackface)
Normal-Emotion9152@reddit
No, I don't think it is rude at all. I wouldn't care about what someone was into at all. A lot of things are to just be fashionable. One time I was speaking with someone about being able to speak another language. The other person was also bilingual, but could not speak the same language and because I could read and write the Asian language.he accused me of cultural appropriation, which was not the case at all. I don't know what his problem was ironically he was not even Asian. I am not either, but I only use the language for playing videogames. I just mentioned I could read, write and speak it and it set him off. I didn't get it.
ididreadittoo@reddit
I can't speak for others, but I find this cultural gatekeeping mindset ridiculous.
When it comes to sacred things, rituals, and customs, I understand not wanting "outsiders" to pretend and mock us, but some people are taking it too far.
No one culture owns braids. It is just a hairstyle, not sacred, yet I have heard of people telling others that they can't wear their hair that way. My hair is long and straight, so I have worn braids to contain it, not for any sacred reasons. It is simply practical.
There is a difference between cultural appreciation and cultural appropriation. People seem to have forgotten that.
Perhaps it is because as a "melting pot" of so many cultures and nationalities, we in the US have lost our cultural identities from "the old world" and strive to retain that which makes our heritage special so when we see a "not us" person using a "my heritage" thing or style, it upsets us.
I don't know, but it has gotten insane in my opinion. I remember a time when we wanted to learn about and share different cultures.
HuckleberryNo5604@reddit
It's like 3 people in the country that care about culture.
ReadinII@reddit
There are various ways to be offensive that are sometimes called “appropriation”. “Appropriation” isn’t really a useful word. There are better words. Some of the big ones are:
Sacrilege: using something sacred in a culture in a way that isn’t respectful. As a Filipino, you might be offended by someone dressing up as a nun to go to a disco. Or you can at least imagine how other Filipinos might find it disrespectful.
Mocking: doing something in an exaggerated or silly way that makes fun of the culture. Like dressing up in traditional Japanese clothing and bowing at everything.
Cringe or costume: using something in a way that is out of place because you didn’t bother to understand that the people you are imitating are real intelligent people. For example wearing a cowboy hat and spurs in New York city and thinking that makes you American.
Use something sacred common sense and try to understand when and where certain actions are appropriate.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
I like these examples. Thank you!
Mindless-Client3366@reddit
It's not rude, or it shouldn't be, but like many subjects, there are people who have taken the term "cultural appropriation" and run with it to mean anything that crosses a culture. For example, when on a cruise for my honeymoon, I wore a pretty choker that was made for me by a friend's mother as a wedding gift. She is Navajo and sells jewelry. A woman walked up to me and rudely and loudly told me I had no right to be wearing jewelry like that as I was obviously white. What I was doing wasn't cultural appropriation. It was a gift from someone of that culture.
A good example of cultural appropriation would be a person going to a party wearing a stereotypical Native American/Indigenous costume while running around waving a tomahawk. That's demeaning and meant to make fun of the people that person is dressed as.
On the flip side, I've had a couple of friends who have attended Indian weddings, and were encouraged to wear a sari/dhoti/veshti etc. This isn't cultural appropriation, it's wearing the host's native attire to attend a celebration.
Also, who told you saying y'all was cultural appropriation? I've lived in the southern US all my life and never heard that. I've heard people of many races say it.
crimson777@reddit
The actual idea of appropriation originally is when you are profiting in some way from another culture without due respect or otherwise straight up disrespecting it.
Having braids wouldn’t be cultural appropriation under the original meaning, but selling your “how to make hair twisties” guide that’s actually just taking Black braiding techniques without any recognition or respect would be.
NotAFanOfOlives@reddit
In my experience, I've heard it fought about a lot more online than in person. Except for dreads, don't wear dreads if you aren't black or you might get shit.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Really? But dreadlocks exist across the world though?
LegitimateSale987@reddit
You can wear dreads if you like. It's no big deal.
NotAFanOfOlives@reddit
I don't make the rules. I've tried defending it before, saying that many other cultures have utilized matted hair/locks before. I'm always called racist for saying that other cultures utilized the hairstyle before.
I don't fight it now. I don't want to be called racist.
Careless-Mammoth-944@reddit
See what white people have done to yoga and you’ll know why the anger exists.
MackSeaMcgee@reddit
No, most of those examples are someone making fun of someone adopting what is perceived as a foreign culture to them. Probably none are serious.
TheGetawayCar000@reddit
Yes. The US is particularly sensitive about this topic.
I’ve seen white people with dreads, black people wearing kimonos, East Asian people into black American hip hop culture and changing their hair texture to look curly/course, southeast Asians whitening their skin tone, white people darkening their skin tone, and despite some of their ignorance these people don’t mean any harm.
wiserTyou@reddit
In America people like to get upset about anything they can, especially if it feeds into some sort of victimhood complex.
JohnFrancisORourke02@reddit
It's not awkward to share it as long as it's not being forced on somebody else to like it.. nor is it weird to share it but it doesn't mean that everyone's going to like it or be apart of it
I would think the media would tell people that someone's a racist for not conforming to or liking someone else's culture though just because they have their own culture. Especially if the other person comes from another country the media is going to be all over it. Just like in politics
JohnFrancisORourke02@reddit
By the way just because if you disagree with somebody though that doesn't mean that you have to be hateful towards them either.. because everyone thinks and does stuff differently. You can be friends, acquaintances or neither. Just be friendly and go about your day or whatever. Though that doesn't mean that everyone will disagree with you. You'll have quite a few that will probably like what you like.
The only problems that I can think of are 2. One is if where you discriminate against someone just because of their culture (it doesn't mean that you have to agree with them) and the second being to force culture or a way of thinking on somebody else who doesn't agree with/ accept or like it and then label them as a racist etc. It works hand in hand
SpeedrunningOurRuin@reddit
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
Damn. RIP in peace to me 😔
SpeedrunningOurRuin@reddit
Rest in peace in peace!? 😱 The horror.
=P
YuShaohan120393@reddit (OP)
terrifying 😲
silence_infidel@reddit
Short answer is no, it's not rude. We love to share different cultures. Clothes, food, music, words, everything is great!
Long answer is that there's a line between appreciation and appropriation, and the US has a very charged and controversial history when it comes to crossing that line. Appreciation is, as the name suggests, when you're engaging in the culture because you just think it's cool and want to appreciate it - in general, nothing wrong with that as long as you're respectful. Appropriation is where you're exploiting a culture in some way, whether to make profit or to insult people from that culture - there's a distinct lack of respect inherent to it.
The US has a very long history of cultural appropriation, especially of Black culture, so a lot of people are pretty sensitive about it. And a lot of people are really bad at telling the difference between the appropriation and appreciation, so they mix them up and call others out for "appropriation" even when something is clearly intended as appreciation. But there's also a lot of other people (and businesses) who do know the difference and deliberately walk a fine line to try to pass appropriation or racist stereotypes off as a form of appreciation - which is why people are so hyper-vigilant about appropriation in the first place.
So, as with most things, it comes down to context. What matters most is respect for the culture that's being shared, and that can be kind of hard to gauge from internet posts. Terminally online folks like to jump immediately to appropriation, because they like to be mad about stuff. But in my experience, most people in real life mostly assume good faith, so that doesn't happen nearly as often. Very obvious appropriation will generally still get called out, but things that are a bit more ambiguous will often get the benefit of the doubt.
sgtm7@reddit
This black man, thinks the whole "cultural appropriation" thing is a bunch of woke bullcrap. All culture is shared with other cultures.
operational-hazard@reddit
Don’t take the piss is the general rule where I lived aka don’t treat it like a caricature and treat it with the respect it deserves.
Schnelt0r@reddit
Speaking as a liberal, I think the concept of cultural appropriation is the liberal version of racism.
"Stay in your lane." Is basically what it sounds like. Where's the limit here, and how far back are they going to push the line? Is a White or Black person allowed to wear a gi?
Where's the power dynamic? Do we assume that White or Black people are appropriating Japanese culture with, I dunno, anime? Even though Japan was a co-equal power in WWII who the US had to dedicate 15% of their GDP and TWO atomic bombs to defeat? What's the power dynamic with a fucking kimono?
Also, if you're American, you're taught your country is a melting pot of cultures. Yet here we have a group saying, nope. Sorry. You're not allowed to do that or appreciate that or partake in that because of who you are or who your ancestors are. Total BS.
Also, the term is culturally appropriated from the actual meaning that archeologists intended. So there's that.
Seriously. Look it up.
Stop worrying about shit and just like what you like.
Plus_Carpenter_5579@reddit
I disbelieve this post.
doubletimerush@reddit
I think the attitude is a big part of it. Are you appropriating it to mock the culture? That's a faux pas. Are you trying to appreciate the culture? Some people will still call you out on it, but they are wrong, and should be ignored to the best of your ability.
The only time I can see it being genuinely a problem is when you deal with particularly "ignorant" members of any race or community. I would recommend avoiding those spaces.
ReactionAble7945@reddit
The people yelling cultural appropriation are generally doing a lot of white person stuff and Asian person stuff. So while someone may give you crap for something, just point out the things they do which belongs to another culture.
In your instance, you have black siblings who are... Writing in ENGLISH, not some agrican language. Talking on their phone, I white guy invented. And probably now Asian made. Typing on a keyboard layout by a white guy. Wearing cloths generally designed by white and now made by asians. Hip Hop doesn't use traditional African instruments.
SO... IMHO, you be you. I like eating foods from around the world. I like music from around the world. I have worn a sombrero (it worked as designed).
PerfStu@reddit
this is not the same thing at all.
TrefleBlanc@reddit
It seems that what you’re trying to understand is the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. There is a whole body of research on this, dating back decades. Recently, there has been pushback in acknowledging this phenomena as it has become considered too “woke.” But, in short:
“Cultural Appreciation can be described as a way of honoring another culture through exploration and seeking an understanding as a way to honor that culture, beliefs, and traditions.”
“Conversely, Cultural Appropriation is the misuse of “creative or artistic forms, themes, or practices” of marginalized communities by socially dominant groups. Examples of mainstream cultural appropriation can include adopting a false or mocking accent of a culture or language, sports teams with offensive names or mascots, and a fashion designer creating pieces dedicated to a culture they don’t belong to and not involving cultural members to participate in the design process or the fashion show. “
“There is a thin line between Cultural Appreciation and Cultural Appropriation. If one uses the knowledge that they have learned for personal gain, they have crossed that thin line.“
https://www.housing.wisc.edu/2024/10/inclusive-language-series-cultural-appreciation-vs-cultural-appropriation/#:~:text=An%20easy%20way%20to%20remember,dishonoring%20or%20demeaning%20a%20culture.
The examples you gave had to do with consumerism. Here is an interesting study regarding this topic as it relates to kpop. If nothing else, the intro may be informative if you are interested in the subject.
Groundbreaking_Bus90@reddit
Black Americans have a history here which makes us sensitive to this kind of thing.
ZaBaronDV@reddit
The only time people would have an issue with it is if they're terminally online and brain-rotted. They aren't worth listening to; Fuck 'em.
mezolithico@reddit
Y'all is southern and has nothing to do with race. Hip hop is art and should enjoyed by everyone. Your ex's family sound like judgmental asshats. You dodged a bullet.
pfta4@reddit
This is a fine line. Cultural appropriation exists, and I will say yes it's absolutely offensive, but only under very certain circumstances that MOST armchair-lawyer online commenters don't understand. You have to sit and study the situation for a long time, like do real actual research for a while, to understand what's good and what's bad. So there isn't a straight answer to your question. Just know that a lot of people who are complaining on BOTH sides don't know jack shit about it and will be unreasonably angry, and most everyone you see complaining online most definitely, again on both sides, will say some stupid shit.
Mean_Marceline@reddit
It depends on how it’s done. Is the person using the culture to gain fame, followers, influence, or cashing in when the same style worn by someone of the culture is mocked? Or are they participating in the culture to actually understand others? If the former, it’s appropriation. If the latter, then it’s not. Hair is a bit different; if your hair doesn’t need a protective style then it’s harmful to do many styles. It’s also something that is heavily policed in school; so for example if a Black student goes to school with cornrows in a predominantly White school then it’s more likely they’ll have difficulties with admin over the style. Meanwhile when a White student comes back from their family vacation in Jamaica with braids and beads it’s not mentioned at all or it’s seen as cute. Same hairstyle with vastly different reactions and outcomes. This is how systemic racism in the US is perpetuated. So, the discussion on cultural appropriation is nuanced but generally if you’re using the culture as something to be consumed then you want to think about why you’re doing it.
32thinmints@reddit
It depends
Short answer: no, some people are just weird.
Long answer: when it comes to speseficly things like non black people wearing black hair styles its considered appropriation due to the fact that black people are opressed for these styles so it can feel vary hurtful and insensitive when non black people do it(also depending on the style it can be vary damnaging to non afro hair)
Theres nothing wrong with you listing to hiphop as that is appreciation, as for the word "y'all" that's actually a southern word not a black culture spesefic one and is also completely okay to use.
For the rest of what you were talking about depending its either people being weird OR the people from that culture get oppressed when they express their culture in someway which is why it is seena disrespectful for people not from said cultures to do so. (This is talking about things done SPESEFICLY in the us. So like wearing a kemono for example while in Japan is completely fine and seen as appreciation. Wearing one here is fine as well as long as you're respectful about it ect ect)
fungiraffe@reddit
Only amongst the terminally online.