How would you respond to a Printer company CTO saying POE switches are killing printers?
Posted by JabbaDuhNutt@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 467 comments
How would you reply?
Jellysicle@reddit
My only knowledge of POE switches causing problems for any devices is if those switches have proprietary 24 volt passive POE technology. This is a holdover from the old days when you would splice in a power connector manually on the end device connection. But this still has to be turned on and off manually in the switch per port. Current POE standards determine how much power the port requires or if it requires power at all.
CPAtech@reddit
Provide evidence.
Parking_Media@reddit
"proof or stfu" but business coded.
Please do the needful in regards to your claim? That's the best I got. Best one in my replies gets a hearty chuckle.
pwnwolf117@reddit
I’d like to introduce you to the fruits of my favorite experiment on frustrated days. Type up your response as crude and angry as you can imagine and then ask ChatGPT to clean it up for you and provide 10 different versions with varying degrees of professionalism.
“That’s quite the claim! If PoE switches are out here committing printer homicide, we’d love to see the evidence. In our experience, PoE doesn’t typically cause issues unless there’s a misconfiguration or power draw mismatch. If you have examples, we’re happy to help investigate—otherwise, I suspect the real culprit might just be printers being printers!”
“PoE switches killing printers? Sounds like we’ve got ourselves a tech crime mystery! If there’s a pattern to these unfortunate printer demises, I’d love to dig into the evidence. If not, I suspect another suspect is at large—perhaps firmware updates or power delivery quirks? Happy to troubleshoot if needed!”
“While I appreciate a good plot twist, I have to step in as the defense attorney for PoE switches here. Without solid evidence, I’d argue that the real cause of printer issues likely lies elsewhere. If you’ve got specifics, I’d love to take a look—otherwise, I’ll have to rule this one as ‘circumstantial at best.’”
⸻
Neutral and Diplomatic Responses
“I’d be interested to hear more about the specifics of this claim. While PoE can cause issues in edge cases—such as incorrect power allocation or incompatibility with certain devices—it shouldn’t ‘kill’ printers. If you have examples or logs showing otherwise, I’d be happy to review them and help find a resolution.”
“That’s an interesting perspective. I’d love to understand more about the issues you’ve observed with PoE and printers—whether it’s a particular model, firmware, or network setup causing complications. If there’s a pattern, troubleshooting it could be valuable for both of us.”
“We’ve worked extensively with PoE switches and haven’t seen any evidence that they inherently cause printer failures. If there’s something specific in your environment leading to this conclusion, I’d be interested to review it. It’s always possible another factor—like firmware updates, power misallocation, or network congestion—is at play.”
⸻
More Direct and Serious Responses
“I’d be interested in any data or evidence that supports this claim. Based on industry standards and our own experience, PoE switches do not inherently ‘kill’ printers unless there’s an underlying issue, such as power misconfiguration or device incompatibility. If you can provide logs or examples, we’d be happy to assist in identifying the root cause.”
“We haven’t seen any industry evidence to support the claim that PoE switches are causing printer failures. If there are documented cases, I’d be happy to review them. Otherwise, I’d suggest considering other potential factors—such as power draw mismatches, firmware conflicts, or environmental variables—before attributing the issue to PoE itself.”
“There’s no known evidence that PoE switches inherently damage printers. If you have data supporting this, I’d be happy to review it. Otherwise, it’s likely that other factors are contributing to the failures you’re seeing.”
“PoE switches do not kill printers. If you have specific examples or technical data proving otherwise, I’d be happy to review it. If not, we should focus on identifying the actual root cause rather than assigning blame where it doesn’t belong.”
vabello@reddit
I think #10 is as soft as my own reply might be.
BioshockEnthusiast@reddit
"If a PoE switch killed this printer then you made a shit printer and I want a refund"
vabello@reddit
Yeah, like why is your shitty printer providing a 25kΩ resistance signature if it's not at PoE device?
abakedapplepie@reddit
To play devils advocate, there are proprietary PoE systems that transmit passive voltage, such as Ubiquiti. At least in Ubiquiti's case, this is a feature you'd have to manually and consciously enable, and its been missing on any switches made after something like 2018 anyway, but still - its technically possible.
lumberjackadam@reddit
It’s also worth noting that even UBNT have moved away from passive PoE. 24v PoE these days is relegated to the very cheapest cctv systems and non-Ethernet uses of UTP cabling.
You're not wrong, but that’s pretty far from likely.
abakedapplepie@reddit
All of the UISP line still uses it
lumberjackadam@reddit
Huh. I didn’t realize. I know my edge router x sfp used it, but that was 10+ years ago. I suppose it’s still cheaper than active poe.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
IME, but I'll wholeheartedly accept it not always being the case, but even these still have a resistance to trigger the POE output initially. Even for passives.
abakedapplepie@reddit
Well I mentioned it because, at least in the case of my old Unifi switch, there was just 24 volts present on the PoE lines full time. If you plug something in that isn't expecting that voltage, it's probably going to cause problems.
ExceptionEX@reddit
I mean you plug a printer into POE, that says not to do it, I'd love to see how you think you would get a refund for that.
pegz@reddit
Most enterprise environments have core switches wired to a patch panel. The core switch you guessed it is capable of PoE usually.
It's unreasonable to expect an environment to drop a industry standard like PoE for junk equipment like an HP MFP
ExceptionEX@reddit
Look at the graphic in the post, it specifically points out phone systems, alarm systems, and CCTV all of which are known to commonly use passive POE.
Your network, or you view on a network, clearly doesn't represent their global user base, or this page wouldn't exist.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
CCTV and phone are the most PREDOMINANTLY 802.3at/at expected devices with any passive versions being WELL into the minority. Lower end network gear is more popular in that regard, but again, anything DECENTLY specced for commercial use is NOT predominantly passive.
The most common I can think of offhand is the Unifi AP lore vs Unifi AP Pro. The pro is at/af and the lite is passive. Same with Mikrotik hAP vs cAP. The cAPs are at/af.
ExceptionEX@reddit
I totally agree, the whole thing is a massive edge case, and isn't something many people who have dedicate IT people making hardware purchases should ever run into.
But, from HPs perspective, that still leaves tons of businesses who are buying temu level gear, and having their nephew set it up.
Though I've seen enough camera systems that are straight trash that those you can find cropping up all over the place, and why simply never letting those networks touch data networks is the best idea.
My point is, and has been that HP isn't wrong in saying they don't want to deal with their gear on a POE network, because they don't want to have to figure out who is doing it right and wrong every time they get a call.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
Oh ye gods. If I see one more Temu level NVR in a business that has some jackass online "cloud" service.... No... Just...
HELLS NO.
My favorite was the library that the "installer" bypassed the entire network stack, plugged their chinesium NVR directly into the second Ethernet port on the ISPs fiber ONT so it was randomly getting the DHCP lease from the fiber line......
uzlonewolf@reddit
No, I have all of that and more on my network, and absolutely none of it uses passive power. Stop buying hacked up shit.
ExceptionEX@reddit
Firstly, you may want to reconsider your topology having those devices on your data network can represent both a security threat to your network, but also can introduce a lot of problems on your network.
But I love this narrow focus of "doesn't happen in my network so anyone it does is hacked up shit."
uzlonewolf@reddit
Only someone who thinks passive PONC (it's not Ethernet) isn't hacked up shit would think it's okay to have all those different devices on a single flat network. On my network the different device types are fully segregated.
ExceptionEX@reddit
I fully agree that network seperation is a must, but clearly you and I aren't representative of the global viewpoint, or we wouldn't be having this thread, nor would so many people not seem to know about passive POE, and HP wouldn't have to have the page reference by the op.
But where I will disagree with you, regardless of how you feel about the name, it is a common and industry accepted name to call it passive POE regardless if it is compliant with the RFC or not.
You want to argue that point, you'll have to do it with the industry and all the products they have labeled and sold as such. Also might want to go edit the wikipage on POE while you are at it.
Weary_Patience_7778@reddit
Why would your core switch have PoE? Why is your printer plugged into your core switch.
Printers are edge devices that connect to your access switches. Which, coincidentally, is where you are most likely to have PoW (e.g for telephony)
harubax@reddit
He just wanted to impress with terminology he does not understand.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
Yeah, that one definitely made my patience weary. Username checked out.
Inuyasha-rules@reddit
To power remote switches via poe?
eosrebel@reddit
If a device that doesn't have poe is being damaged by a poe capable switch that printer has a shit design. How many non poe devices have you heard of being damaged just because they are connected to a poe switch?
ExceptionEX@reddit
The rules aren't for the people doing things right, they are for the knobs that would connect a passive POE camera system, (which will then finger bang everything it touches with 24v no handshake) to their data network, not knowing that not all POE is the same.
It is easier for HP, to say "we aren't responsible for devices that are connected to POE", than to argue with people over the different devices and which POE it is.
uzlonewolf@reddit
Passive is not POE. You can call it "a crude hack," "a fire hazard," or, if you're being charitable, "power over network cable," however "Ethernet" is a standard and no part of that standard allows passive power.
ExceptionEX@reddit
Well I don't control the global marketing, or the fact that it has existed and has been sold as such for more than a decade.
It is define as literally anything that isn't RFC compliant voltage, so here we are.
A Butterfly is not butter but because so fuck said it enough that's what we are stuck with.
hi-fen-n-num@reddit
ACCC baby.
ExceptionEX@reddit
? don't know those in that combo?
scriminal@reddit
This is my answer too. "The only way that happened is if you made a faulty network module"
socialisthippie@reddit
Should probably go for #1.
tech2but1@reddit
I think #1 might work better here.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
My softest reply:
scriminal@reddit
"You are stupid and wrong. Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad about them. Of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most.
Love, Director of IT"
vabello@reddit
Love? You’re too nice.
ILikeFPS@reddit
I'd probably do the 7th, but I'm also not a sysadmin I'm a web developer lol
ExceptionEX@reddit
An odd approach, a device manufacture doesn't have to prove that your scenario is doing anything, as terms of using their device, if you want support from them, you don't connect it to POE, and if you do expect problems without getting support.
Not sure how you think you are going try IT lawyer your way out of that.
And everything you said completely did not take into account passive POE devices, which don't handshake, direct send power to anything down channel to of them, and is very likely where all this is coming from.
uzlonewolf@reddit
Them saying you cannot plug it into a POE switch means they are admitting it is not standards compliant, and as such it has no place on a network.
ExceptionEX@reddit
getting tired of saying this, and really shocked that I have to, there are two types of POE, Passive and Active, passive doesn't handshake and pushes 24v to everything connected.
This is common in phone, CCTV, and alarm systems. Which is specifically what they are talking about in the article that the Op posted.
-Copenhagen@reddit
Which industry standard is that?
If HP meant non standard-compliant PoE, that's what they should have written.
ExceptionEX@reddit
passive poe is literally non-compliant poe.
-Copenhagen@reddit
That's my point exactly.
ExceptionEX@reddit
If your HP why split hairs about compliant and non compliant and then have to try and deal with people arguing their point, similarly as they have in this thread. (Fairly clear many here didn't even know there was passive power)
Easier to say, if you use POE expect problems, and don't expect us to help you resolve them, that poe can cause these issues and errors.
And leave it at that, anymore than that you open yourself up to arguments and debate.
-Copenhagen@reddit
Because literally everyone in business setting expect to be able to use your printer on your endpoint network. Which in 90% of cases has (compliant) PoE.
ExceptionEX@reddit
I feel you aren't consider the larger aspect of what that means, there are tons of business out there that are just ramshackle slapped together shit, if it wasn't the case the page nor this thread would exist.
-Copenhagen@reddit
Have you ever worked in IT?
ExceptionEX@reddit
Have you? I mean you make a statement about everyone and 90% which is nonsensical or at best hyperbole.
I've been in IT a long time, and I also work from enterprise to sole proprietorship, so perhaps my viewpoint on what "literally everyone in business setting" actually looks like.
-Copenhagen@reddit
And you would estimate that businesses in general put out unmanaged PoE on their networks?
ExceptionEX@reddit
I believe a lot of people are unaware of the different POE, and a vendor comes in and says the new alarm system or cameras uses POE. and they allow them to plug into their existing data network more than you know.
Would I say it is common, or average no, but enough that HP needed to put and article about it out there.
-Copenhagen@reddit
Let's play along for a second:
The camera guy plugs into the existing network.
How is that a problem for the printers?
He will either add sketchy injectors for the cameras or an additional switch for the cameras.
How is that a problem for the printers?
I really can't see how this is an issue.
ExceptionEX@reddit
Plug a passive poe that is dumping 24v into a lot of routers and you'll start to see odd behavior all over the place.
The average etho device has tolerance for about 10v so when you overload that on a router down channel devices can get bleed over voltage spikes. And devices like printers can do all sorts of crazy things.
Feel free to search on /r/networking there are a lot of topics and examples of why this is a problem. Or literally Google it, I do not see the point in having benial conversations about something that is so easy for you to independently look up.
-Copenhagen@reddit
If you put passive PoE into a switch, it doesn't magically send that out on the other ports.
You are out of your depth here.
ExceptionEX@reddit
The only thing I'm out of depth with is talking to someone who is so smug yet wrong.
I'm done here, feel free to simply look this very basic concept up.
I really don't know why I waste my time like this.
Mr_ToDo@reddit
Passive is "fun" :)
But at least from the screen shot it's strange. I mean they mention injectors which means people are installing them and plugging printers into them? A switch I could get but an injector is generally done with reason. I suppose you could repurpose a plug that had that, but that's got to be a long shot.
And I'll be honest, as much I try my best to never let passive power touch non POE gear I've never actually had a gear ending issues when it happens. Worst that I've had is a non gig injector bumping the connection down to 10/100(or active POE gear not turn on because, well, not active). Not that I couldn't see it happening, I just haven't seen it happen yet.
But goodness, passive can be a pain sometimes. Getting the right voltage, make sure it can also handle the distance you're shoving it, said gig vs hundred meg stuff, and occasionally badly labeled lan vs device injectors. You'd think with the availability of the good stuff they'd either make the switch of have the option of either
MedicatedLiver@reddit
While I don't doubt some trash level gear isn't, most passive equipment STILL has a resistor to trigger the POE power supply, even for non at/af supplies.
But any passive POE power delivery that doesn't check first, or gear that doesn't implement this, is beyond garbage tier. It's straight up lazy and negligent design for ANY level of commercial type equipment.
ExceptionEX@reddit
I'll have to say with I have yet to run into issues with any modern phones, but alarm systems and cameras I don't think that is true, at least from my narrow perspective.
But since it is only one of many reasons not to mix these types of networks, and an easy solution to keep them segregated I still advocate for that.
And we only run POE where we need it, and generally its segregated due to security and function.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
I can't speak for alarm, so far, not seen it on cameras. Admittedly, I've only run into passive cameras a few handfuls of times. The overwhelming majority have been POE. Well, outside of the older analog cameras. BALUNS EVERYWHERE!
CeleryMan20@reddit
I was shocked, too. Shouldn’t have stuck my tongue in th ethersocket.
Jokes aside, scrolled to far to find this. No modern switch should have passive power enabled by default, most aren’t even capable. If people are plugging printer a printer into an injector, then yikes.
ExceptionEX@reddit
Where I see it most commonly are alarm systems and DVR/POE switch combos. This isn't a legacy thing in those spaces, its just the way the do things.
As others has said, it might have been wise to require a distinction and not allowed it to be called POE because it isn't really. But hear we are.
accidental-poet@reddit
Here's another one:
If POE is killing your printers, than it's likely the NICs you install in those printers are shit. Just like the rest of the printer itself.
I'm a grump old graybeard. :)
abofh@reddit
Made funnier to be because I have an old poe HP switch sitting in a box not far from me
MedicatedLiver@reddit
Lol, now THAT should be the response... "Very well. Can you advise as our HP ProCurve xxx is our current primary switch deployed..."
abofh@reddit
I found my 3400cl, with an even still sealed USB console port. I'm less convinced I'll find the Poe, but sure it'll be still in shrinkwrap if I do.
I'm the millennial asshole, I didn't know what to keep, so I kept it all.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
I know I have a ProCurve 48 port around. Non POE. Most of my stuff is stacks of Dell switches including a really nice L3 with dual 10GB interfaces that has a semi borked firmware I need to reload and sell off.
Inuyasha-rules@reddit
What was the original phrasing?
pwnwolf117@reddit
Can you write a professional email to respond to a Printer company CTO saying POE switches are killing printers? Clearly this is NOT the case, but I need options more elegant than “proof or shut the fuck up”
Please provide 10 options ranging in levels of professionalism from lighthearted and funny to serious
javiers@reddit
KickedAbyss@reddit
LLMs making IT great at communicating. Love it.
serverhorror@reddit
Really?
Hie about this:
UKYPayne@reddit
I like it, but not varied enough.
BioshockEnthusiast@reddit
Generate list of 10 random psychological profiles
Apply and modify responses in random order
Profit?
CowardyLurker@reddit
That's a weird flex HP. Maybe keep that one to yourself next time.
tuxedo_jack@reddit
"Power over Ethernet doesn't kill printers... unless you're using one of these."
It's 13 years or so on and I still have that Etherkiller sitting in a lockbox in my office.
Kumorigoe@reddit
Jack, your hatred for printers is legendary. And well founded.
Parking_Media@reddit
Lol sick
McConnellsPurpleHand@reddit
head wobble
shrekerecker97@reddit
Chatgpt is good at making stuff like that sound professional
Parking_Media@reddit
Writing a clever snarky email is a pleasure I would not delegate.
Frequent_Rate9918@reddit
Thank you for your concerns about PoE switches and printers. To assist you, we need the following within 24 hours: - Printer error logs - Network configuration details - Network logs for every switch the printer can see - PoE switch settings - POE switch logs - Recent network or printer changes - Detailed explanation of why you think POE switches are killing printers
Without these, we can’t diagnose the issue. Please provide the information promptly. If we do not have this information within the next 24 weeks will have to close your ticket and you will have to open a new ticket if you are still experiencing any issues.
theneedfull@reddit
I agree with this comment.
everysaturday@reddit
Wouldn't even business-ify it up. Screw em. Stupid games, stupid prizes.
Ignorance84@reddit
Well maybe you should just disable PoE on the printer port. Every good PoE+ switch gives you the ability to turn it off. And as a network builder I always disable PoE on devices that are not PoE...
theoneandonlymd@reddit
Sometimes that's not an option. Say you're using something like Juniper dynamic port profiles. You set up a new site and all ports are set to the printer profile (simple example), but they have dynamic configuration with MAC OUI matching for APs and Security cameras. If an AP that matches the AP oui gets plugged in, the port changes to a trunk with the AP management as native and allows the SSID related Vlans. Similarly a camera makes the port changes to a security camera profile. Both of those require PoE to be operational so the initial LLDP data can be exchanged and the dynamic configuration to be possible.
Ignorance84@reddit
That is why I said "good switches"... Juniper as far from good almost as far as Extrem...lol
theoneandonlymd@reddit
Juniper not good switches? Boy howdy are you living up to your username.
Ignorance84@reddit
I have built communcation networks all over the world and the only time I came across Juniper was to remove it . JUNOS is crap and you know it.
theoneandonlymd@reddit
So what do you deploy?
Ignorance84@reddit
I deploy what the customer wants, and 80% of the time it is Cisco.
theoneandonlymd@reddit
Ok so vendor aside, the point still stands. Using a different, very common example, if this was in an office environment, as 99% of MFPs are, it could very well among cubicles or offices that could just as equally have an IP desk phone. 802.1x or any other port security/dynamic port technology would ID the device and place them or the port in the right VLAN configuration. Since you don't know if a port is going to get an MFP or a desk phone, everything needs PoE.
So now we're back to square one where you can't just say "turn off PoE".
Ignorance84@reddit
I understand what you are say, but ports should be assinged based on what on being installed. Data/VoIP, Servers, Printers, AP, Cams, etc. So when you know things lile servers and printers will never use PoE you can turn it off. Things that need PoE stay enabled. This also allow you to manage devices better because users should never be allowed to just plug things in.
theoneandonlymd@reddit
Sometimes you just don't know, and sometimes you as the IT/network team don't get to put your thumb on the scale enough to say your way or the highway. It's literally why some of these technologies exist.
It's nice to turn off PoE for server ports, sure, but I'm as someone who has deployed networks all over, I'm surprised you haven't come across situations where entire offices get reshuffled without anyone telling IT. The reality is some very common environments where all MFP would land can't necessarily be expected to preemptively turn off PoE. It's not a new spec, and there is something inherently wrong with a vendor who is putting out hardware that dies when connected to a PoE device. Maybe they didn't do a good job engineering their circuit board and there's enough resistance for the switch to detect the pull down to trigger PoE, maybe something else. Nevertheless, they made a boo boo and will probably end up recalling the units or at least the network cards if they're removable.
Ignorance84@reddit
I have built networks all over as well, and letting a office access and move around its own gear is something I have never seen. Guess military networks just way different.
ExceptionEX@reddit
passive POE common in a lot of POE cameras doesn't, it sends voltage without handshake all the time, and though no one should put those two on the same network, they do.
The problem is, most people here are seemingly competent and know what they are doing. this message is written for the "I'm pretty savvy with computers, even put in the office DVR and Cameras myself" crowd.
uzlonewolf@reddit
And those cameras use injectors, not switches.
bofh@reddit
Well the ones that use POE injectors use injectors, sure. Plenty are just plugged directly into a POE switch.
doktortaru@reddit
Sure, but you can control the port's ability to send passive or active POE from any half decent managed switch, as the original commentor said, just turn it off for that port.
Dabnician@reddit
just use this as an excuse to tell everyone that this is a facilities issue and to stop buy cheap ass network security cameras.
doktortaru@reddit
At my facility it was a separate network stack, Security devices (Card readers, cameras, etc) were on their own switches and patched separately
ExceptionEX@reddit
certainly going to want to talk to a lot of those POE DVR combos as they certainly do use built in passive POE switches in the DVR.
throwawayPzaFm@reddit
Yeah but at that point what the heck is your printer doing in the DVR switch
ExceptionEX@reddit
Literally elsewhere in this thread alone, we had someone in IT bragging they had all of thier stuff on one network without issue. now think of how many companies whose CEOs nephew is a computer genius came in and set things up.
I mean its real enough that it specifically mentions those devices on the article the op added to his original post.
CptUnderpants-@reddit
Except for older UniFi, which are dangerous in that you can configure af or 24v passive via the UI.
nickjohnson@reddit
Only dangerous if the hardware you use was designed by incompetents; a standards compliant non-poe Ethernet device will handle DC on Ethernet pairs just fine.
CptUnderpants-@reddit
In my nearly 30 years I've found many examples of incompetent design to the point my default position is that I assume incompetence unless the vendor has proven otherwise on a consistent basis.
KnowledgeTransfer23@reddit
Maybe I need coffee, but... What are you saying here? There's no verb at all.
ExceptionEX@reddit
Admittedly the grammar is poor on my part, to clarity a lot of equipment that provide Passive POE power, don't handshake, they just send voltage so it doesn't matter if you attempt to disable POE on the client device, its sending that voltage to all devices its connected to.
KnowledgeTransfer23@reddit
Thank you! Definitely makes sense now!
Coffee_Ops@reddit
This is an area I haven't really dug into, but aren't the NICs on printers usually separate cards?
And wouldn't you expect the passive Poe to only fry badly made NICs? (I've heard rumors of this but my understanding is that some level of over voltage protection is pretty cheap and found on stuff like USB).
And even if it did fry them, wouldn't you expect that to be insufficient to kill the whole printer? I've certainly seen fried NICs from lightning strikes, but it only killed the NIC itself.
ExceptionEX@reddit
Though it would be a good idea, I would not assume any of those things, I can't be sure they haven't used something integrated on the board, additionally, both NIC and USB are two areas most computing devices are susceptible to damage with a very small amount of power and rarely if ever today, when that damage does happen is it something as simple as swapping out a card.
Why make a sacrificial component when if I don't, you buy another one of our products when it wasn't our fault you surged power through our product? Though I think on average things are shield for under 10v of before issues can happen?
SuddenTank@reddit
Terrible suggestion. Are you bragging about being a bad network engineer? Why would you waste people's time having to log back in every time someone plugs a PoE device or moves a PoE device?
We have standard for a reason :)
Ignorance84@reddit
If you are leaving your network ports open to allow users to plug in whatever they want shows you know nothing about this topic. Or you are just a idiot with no network secure practises what so ever!
Simmangodz@reddit
Naw, they should just make sure that thier shitty firmware doesn't request PoE on Standards Compliant equipment, which their products do not appear to be. Otherwise it wouldn't be a problem.
ADynes@reddit
A couple years ago we had some Konica MFPs and the touch screens would lock up after a couple weeks and you had to unplug them and plug them back in. The company that we lease our printers from came out and said it's because of power over ethernet. I was dumbfounded and I asked how power over ethernet would possibly cause just the touch screens to lock up because the printers continued to print. He said we needed to turn off Poe. I told them that's not really a thing, the device either asks for it or doesn't and if it doesn't it's already turned off. He started getting upset and telling me that I had to turn it off. So I printed out a status of my switch, walked him through tracing the port on the wall back to the patch panel back to the switch and circled the port on the switch that showed the status of Poe was off and I told him look it's turned off. He got extra pissed and said his little Network tester shows that it's turned on and I told him he should buy a better Network tester and figure out what's wrong with the printer and walked away.
The problem did go away after a few months, I'm guessing there was some firmware update Konica did.
itsverynicehere@reddit
Not to be that guy, but you typically can turn PoE off on a given switch port, at least every switch I have seen. That being said, not surprised that the printer guy did the printer guy thing.
ADynes@reddit
Yeah, I could. But I refused.
itsverynicehere@reddit
I like that approach
notHooptieJ@reddit
i dont need evidence, just fix your fucking printers before we buy any more.
Ignorance84@reddit
Are you talking just work with PoE switch port, or a printer that uses PoE for power source? If so, which print type because I have not seen one before.
hosalabad@reddit
[Citation needed]
different_tan@reddit
I had a printer tech try to say this to me, I couldn’t actually stop myself from laughing.
CyberMattSecure@reddit
RoundTheBend6@reddit
Professional way: can you show me?
nswizdum@reddit
802.3af/t are ethernet standards, why are they selling me printers that are not ethernet compliant? Got to replace them all at the vendor's cost.
No_Pin9972@reddit
Well, 802.3 PoE is A standard. A quick review of the security camera space over on amazon will reveal some things are for sale, things that forgo such niceties as handshaking to determine if the other end WANTs 48 (28? 26? 110?) volts up the backside.
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
About 90% are HP MFP
NoReallyLetsBeFriend@reddit
Lol. We have 90% of our fleet are the MFPs, some 8+ years old now. All switch ports are minimum PoE+
mkosmo@reddit
Do you have PoE enabled on those switchports?
NoReallyLetsBeFriend@reddit
It's enabled by default, but obviously not giving off power
technobrendo@reddit
Right. If the port doesn't do the poe handshake with the client device it should disable the power output and operate just like a non-poe port
dodexahedron@reddit
And even then they're electrically decoupled by a transformer in the port.
It would be a BS claim by a support person trying to get out of a ticket and they should be reported to their manager.
ExceptionEX@reddit
Google passive POE, no handshake, up to 24v to anything connected
zero0n3@reddit
And what Ethernet standard does that fall under?
None? Then it shouldn’t be deployed on Ethernet networks
ExceptionEX@reddit
hey, now you just have to get rid of literally hundred of thousands of existing devices and get all those manufactures to listen to you.
zero0n3@reddit
More like people shouldn’t deploy devices onto their enterprise network if the devices can’t pass basic IEEE certification for their POE system.
That means they shouldn’t buy devices that require passive POE or devices that “send” passive POE.
Passive Poe has no standard. Frankly, it sounds like some shitty 3rd party proprietary shit some rando developed because they were lazy to run actual DC lines or didnt want to pay for proper POE design and certification.
ExceptionEX@reddit
well hopefully most enterprise aren't, but HP doesn't just do business with enterprise, and there is a lot of small business running the most cheaply made shitty gear.
So HP still have to hear with them when their shitty network gear fries their printer.
Pazuuuzu@reddit
We did 230 passive poe a few days ago...
m_vc@reddit
active poe doesnt carry any risks
mkosmo@reddit
I know it doesn’t, you know it doesn’t… but I don’t trust HP support to take that to mean anything.
TuxAndrew@reddit
To be fair, we’ve had numerous Zigbee devices initially powered by PoE that were continuously dying. Oddly enough the culprits were Aruba switches…. After numerous outages we switched them all to be powered by standard outlet and haven’t had a problem since.
zero0n3@reddit
Or maybe the zinger device hardware is substandard and can’t handle the Poe or had poor board design where the heat was degrading other hardware parts.
Or they don’t properly implement Poe on the boards??
NoReallyLetsBeFriend@reddit
Would be ironic if the Aruba switched took out their own printers
pdp10@reddit
Isn't Arube HPE? Not technically the same company, any more?
NoReallyLetsBeFriend@reddit
Well yes, I just figure under the same umbrella basically, right? Close enough?
labalag@reddit
Or a valid business tactic to sell more printers.
PieceOfShoe@reddit
Did you ever put an inline PoE diagnostic meter between them to see what was up? I haven’t seen Aruba switches misbehave in PoE negotiation before. Their gear is usually pretty well built and standard compliant.
Redemptions@reddit
That feels more likely an incorrect implementation of PoE on the end point than the switch. Everything has variances and I'm guessing those devices that don't handle those variances. Or the Arubas were bad, OR they were being operated out of spec/incorrectly.
dodexahedron@reddit
HP support has no legal grounds for rejecting a support request based on that.
They say their printers are compliant with IEEE802.3 and other standards, which means that, unless they have an explicitly justified and documented incompatibility that doesn't conflict with those standards, you are in the right to demand the contract be honored.
If they do have such incompatibilities, they are in breach of contract by not actually supporting what their product is claimed to support as well as being in violation of IEEE rules governing the use of the names of the standards when selling a product claiming them.
And if that's the case, there is a formal complaint process you can follow with IEEE.
So if a support person makes that kind of BS claim, you stick to your guns and report them to their manager at minimum for pulling that kind of shit.
mkosmo@reddit
802.3 is one standard. Bring 802.3 compliant doesn’t imply .3ae/at/bt, or anything else. They’re extensions.
But I didn’t say anything about rejecting it. Just implied they may take you down that path. And that’s fine. It doesn’t take but a couple seconds to disable poe, and you really shouldn’t have it enabled where it’s not expected anyways, or else you may find yourself accidentally against your power budget unexpectedly.
johor@reddit
Tell that to all the fused NICs I've had to replace over the years. It was only one, but still.
notHooptieJ@reddit
and?
HP makes some of the worst printers these days.
locke577@reddit
So I'm going to assume you're not dealing with HP's CTO, but some kind of print vendor company. How big are they? Is CTO a legitimate title or are they a small regional shop?
Public_Fucking_Media@reddit
They're lying to you, this is how you call them on it.
RJTG@reddit
Are you able to PM the message? I sincerely want to get rid of my next printer ticket.
Odayian@reddit
Only if the switches they're using adhere to those standards and aren't passive PoE. Passive can ruin many devices.
Ignorance84@reddit
Because damn software monkeys like to believe a standard mean something different when they build their port stack.
ExceptionEX@reddit
They aren't, but other people are selling non-compliant to that standard POE (ie passive POE)
And it can cause damage to anything not just printers.
braintweaker@reddit
I'm surprised its not higher up. There are lots of not PoE compliant hardware (unifi, I'm looking at you). Passive poe absolutely can damage hardware and it should be common knowledge that it can happen.
HugeAlbatrossForm@reddit
This. Why are they requesting power and fuxking themselves?
Coffee_Ops@reddit
Non-standard POE is a thing, and what the vendor suggests is probably physically possible, but that gets pretty deep into the realm of the unlikely.
homelaberator@reddit
It could comply with some other subset of the ethernet standards. Also, everything else in that chain like cables and switches. There are "PoE" switches that are not compliant.
Freon424@reddit
This is the way. Provide the IEEE page on PoE . If their device is completing the physical handshake to scale up to AF or AT, their printer isn't IEEE compliant. If it's using LLDP to incorrectly provide it's power requirements, it's not IEEE compliant. If your switches were incorrectly juicing up ports, you'd have stuff besides printers dying on you.
Jaereth@reddit
Um dude, I don't think that trumps the bullet points of an HP podcast...
BarracudaDefiant4702@reddit
Not all POE is 802.3f/t. (Pretty much anything recent should be, but POE predates that standard...)
TerawattX@reddit
This is absolutely the answer. Either he’s claiming you have some janky hardware doing weird non-standard crap and needs to back that claim up, or he’s claiming his devices are not compatible with an Ethernet standard and thus you were sold trash.
Is this vendor HP themselves or someone reselling? I’m guessing some reseller based on the accusation.
Also how many devices got “fried”?
binarycow@reddit
It would be funny if it was, and it was also HP switches.
Waretaco@reddit
Perfect answer.
ParallelConstruct@reddit
This is the way
xkrysis@reddit
Unless they are nonstandard poe then his claim is baloney. I’d be tempted to skip the step of disabling poe on printer ports and jump right to putting a little cheap unmanaged netgear switch between every printer and the wall. The next time a printer dies they won’t be able to argue that maybe the poe port still sends power when turned off or any other nonsense.
Or just find a better print vendor. This kind of nonsense is rarely a singular belief and he probably has more superstitions that you’ll have to fight with down the road. This is right out of the same drawer as “the printer needs a domain admin credentials and “we need special branded Ethernet cables at 24.99 ea to connect all printers”.
LRS_David@reddit
HP seems to want to alienate very single printer customer they have ever had.
MedicatedLiver@reddit
Sounds like very much a THEM problem for not making their equipment correctly, because unless it's some passive POE, it won't supply power until negotiated.... I mean, that's half the whole damn point of 802.3at/af.
Just another reason to not have HP.
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
Agreed, it's Fortinet switches.
Brainburst-@reddit
They should provide a warning and a coupler to block the dc power
Brainburst-@reddit
If they believe this they should include a warning and a coupler to block the dc power.
Large-Fig5187@reddit
13 printers/copiers on PoE switches since 2013. Pretty sure any Ethernet connection is electrically isolated from the cable.
MrJingleJangle@reddit
Indeed, an Ethernet port is transformer-coupled, and the spec requires (fro memory) 500V capable isolation to ground.
Unless we are talking about passive POE, which uses what were, in the 10/100 Mbit days, the unused pairs for (usually) 24V power: those then-unused pairs are no longer unused.
PhillisCarrom@reddit
No longer unused by devices that utilise the passive PoE.
The HP printer should still not notice it being there, because of the galvanic isolation from the magnetics.
grawity@reddit
Hmm, my understanding is that galvanic isolation only means the DC doesn't transfer to the "output" side of the isolation transformer... but the current still continuously goes through the "input" side, so even if PoE could not affect the rest of the circuitry, it could easily fry the magnetics themselves, couldn't it?
At least when I accidentally connected a passive-PoE cable to my then-brand-new laptop, it definitely started emitting a funny "burning electronics" smell and I still believe I'm lucky to have unplugged it fast enough that it hasn't downgraded the port from 1GbE to 10/100.
PhillisCarrom@reddit
My brain wasn't ready for this question as soon as a woke up. Short answer: good question, I don't know.
Absolutely makes sense (to me) that you'd be able to burn out the magnetics. My extensive research (aka 10 minutes of Google) suggests that any 802.3af/at devices use both wires of a pair for v+ or v-, so they're should be no current through the magnetics. Less compliant version probably do the same, to avoid the problem you mentioned.
Ubiquiti PoE can go jump... Regardless of whether it is af-ish, or 24v passive. I wanna trust them, but I don't.
Technical-Message615@reddit
HP MBA train of thought: Galvanic isolation, sounds expensive. We can do without it. KPI Met. Golden parachute. Flaps locust wings. Looks for next victim.
node808@reddit
Sounds like an mfg to mfg conversation needs to be had. Meanwhile, I'm entering this ticket so you can come fix.
cant_think_of_one_@reddit
If your printers can't work when connected to a PoE switch, then they don't have working Ethernet adapters, and nobody should use them. HP printers are garbage anyway.
Seductive-Kitty@reddit
If the switch has passive PoE then yes it could cause issues
vppencilsharpening@reddit
If I'm understanding this correctly, HP is saying that HP printers are not compatible with enterprise network gear from HPE?
Jazzlike-Vacation230@reddit
On one hand i"m thinking, what the heck. What is he talking about? On the other hand, could their be a wattage mismatch causing issues???
hokus2024@reddit
Nonsense
Vesalii@reddit
From the title I was going to write "I don't get how an MFP manufacturer can fuck up their designs in such a way that PoE messes with their devices."
Then I saw that it was HP. This is entirely on them.
Consistent-Jump-762@reddit
Just came here to say that most of you are wrong!
https://kb-nl.gsd.ricoh.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/251052/~/problemen-met-cisco-pre-standard-%28legacy%29-poe
darksoft125@reddit
config
interface 1/1/x
no power-over-ethernet
we mem
Area51Resident@reddit
Reinstall Windows is usually HP support's next step.
Technical-Message615@reddit
Right after sfc /snannow and doing the needful.
thortgot@reddit
It's a BS defense so I would guess they would go with
"Underlying damage from prior POE configuration. All similar failures will be considered billable replacements."
NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit
They will make up imaginary bullshit to claim that somehow it still happening
dirtyredog@reddit
are they Republicans?
slylte@reddit
this is not a political discussion, please don't make it one
The69LTD@reddit
Found the republican
ccsrpsw@reddit
"The thingy that detects link up/down is pulling a low but meaningful voltage causing a static buildup on the line, applying a 50 jigawatt per parsec charge on the motherboard" or some crap.
Grandcanyonsouthrim@reddit
Then it's proved to be imaginary bullshit... win
KAugsburger@reddit
That's definitely a lot easier than trying to convince them that their theory is dumb.
Bart_Yellowbeard@reddit
Technical-Message615@reddit
"Pics or it didn't happen"
SilentDecode@reddit
That's utter bullshit. PoE doesn't just send out power, it first negotiates with the device if it's even capable of PoE. If it isn't, then it won't send power. If it does, then it powers the device.
Ignorance84@reddit
You may want to see how many place really use that hardware. I have designed and built network all over the world and have come across two or three that use it. And when I was done it was no more.
durkzilla@reddit
"Hi, our lawyers are filing a lawsuit against our PoE switch vendor for damages to our printer equipment. Please provide your full name an contact information as you are named as a material witness in this case."
lasteducation1@reddit
Just ignore them. If your switches are configured correctly, the ports where the printers are connected don't provide PoE
gemmerskirminkel@reddit
On the topic of printers. I had a CTO tell me we need to remove the hard drives from 20+ at the end of each day. Needed to format them as he saw in a news article someone got hold of a printer from a municipal dump, and was able to "rebuild" the documents that where scanned on the printer. We never figured out how to remove HDDs from
leased printers we weren't allowed to open up. 🤣
Consistent-Jump-762@reddit
Cisco Legacy PoE creates misdetections and injects 48V.
This KILLS network connected appliances that conforms to af/at standards.
chapel316@reddit
I would question his credentials as a CTO and then show him how no power is actually being consumed by said printers at the switch-port level.
SHANE523@reddit
Right? Why would you enable PoE on a port that a printer is connected to in the first place?
chapel316@reddit
Enabling/disabling doesn’t really matter though. Printers aren’t made to pull power from POE and managing your switch ports like that sounds like a nightmare anyway. It’s the same as “locking down” ports that aren’t in use instead of using a NAC.
SHANE523@reddit
It is easy managing ports for PoE, at least for Unifi and Dell, and I only enable PoE for ports that require it. I only need PoE for VoIP phones and APs, my cameras are on an independent network created by an NVR that has a dedicated PoE switch.
chapel316@reddit
It’s “easy” for all manufacturers. But doing it at scale is a fools game. What happens when someone moves the printer without you knowing (we know that NEVER happens)? Much more common to leave it alone.
SHANE523@reddit
Yeah that does suck, when I was at a Fortune 500 they tied IP and MAC to port through etc and if a device "moved" it wouldn't boot.
I am fortunate now that I don't have users that just move things without going through the proper process but I do see your point.
chapel316@reddit
Right, which is why I brought up NAC in my original comment. We tend to do too many things manually when automated systems can help. Just a general statement, not pointed at anyone.
agoodrich5@reddit
Please program your shit to not request power. Thanks. Oh, and I promise we don't have a separate injector for a device that doesn't require PoE. That's just wasteful and extra work that nobody does.
Sea-Hat-4961@reddit
Passive PoE will kill things not expecting it...IEEE 802.3 compliant PoE shouldn't hurt anything
gundealsmademebuyit@reddit
"good" - no one likes printers
ESCNole@reddit
Disable PoE on those ports to prove it.
TheGreatAutismo__@reddit
“Oh no, anyway.”
Fallingdamage@reddit
Ive seen passive PoE kill printers before. Usually its a shitty printer design, but I've been in IT for 27 years and I've seen it ONE TIME, and it was a shitty Pitney Bowes postage machine.
Active PoE is generally safer than passive PoE.
ByteFryer@reddit
Uh what? Prove it. We have about 80% POE and probably 300 printers and never heard of such BS.
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
Says "it's frying the motherboards and causing boot issues"
BitBurner@reddit
Sounds like the actual power for the printer isn’t grounded or isn’t plugged into a surge protector. Used to work for an HP and Xerox service center and most like this were caused by no ground or no surge suppression/protection. To the point we issued surge suppression protection cables with the lease and require a grounded outlet. We had a customer that did not have a ground and made an electrician fix it before we would install.
Bagellord@reddit
Am I crazy for thinking that all outlets should have grounds?
BuntaFurrballwara@reddit
I once did a service call in an office that had a lot of problems with their copier. When I touched the frame I got a little shock. One of the secretaries saw it happen and said “we have so much static in here!”. I touched the frame again and got shocked again. That’s not static, it would already be discharged? They had ripped the ground off the surge strip and plugged in a super old microwave that was feeding 90v into ground with nowhere to go.
Bagellord@reddit
ripped off on purpose??? Or just accidental damage
BuntaFurrballwara@reddit
Looked purposeful 🤷🏼♂️ Some people are pretty dumb
whythehellnote@reddit
In my country that's a requirement
However the actual device can be a class 2 device and not bother connecting to the earth. I'm not sure if a typical printer is class 2 or not, as printers are banned from my network.
Reasonable_Active617@reddit
Sounds like they need to put a voltage monitor on an outlet and monitor it for a couple of days.
KAugsburger@reddit
No. Grounded outlets have been standard in new construction in most of the world for many years. Many older buildings have been renovated to add grounded outlets although I have heard of some unethical/incompetent contractors that will put in receptacles with false grounds that aren't really properly connected.
Platypus_Dundee@reddit
No. Not crazy at all!
BoltActionRifleman@reddit
Should, yes, but not all do. It’s the older outlets/wiring in some buildings that still don’t have grounds.
Mindestiny@reddit
Yeah, I've never leased a printer where they didn't deliver it with their own surge protector that we had to use. It's like a $20 fix to protect their $50k machine
quantum_trogdor@reddit
Highly doubt that’s the problem. Sounds like he’s pulling g that straight from his ass.
So disable POE on those ports if he thinks it’s an issue?
Coffee_Ops@reddit
Engaging with his argument lends credence to it. My general policy is not to make stupid changes to the environment unless there's a plausible explanation for how it might help.
If your switches are standards compliant PoE and even remotely recent (e.g. 10 years) it will be hard to come up with a scenario where the switch kills the printer.
In fact, I suspect that even if you hooked a 48 volt power supply up to the ethernet cable, you'd be hard-pressed to kill the entire printer. I suspect you'd get a working printer with a dead ethernet port.
Has HP taken a look at these printers and determined that there's electrical damage on the NIC? Because if not, the CTO's title doesn't mean anything; it's speculation.
NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit
They'll claim that it still sends power. Somehow someway or sends voltage of the line that causes problems. In my experience it's usually due to them not putting in a power conditioner when they bring the printers in which they should be doing. They stop doing that a few years ago and then wonder why their shit keeps failing.
Ok_Awareness_388@reddit
It could be 5G transferring power into the wire through inductive coupling. The only solution is wireless, I recommend 5G.
No_Length_2919@reddit
There is no such thing.
Show him, on a switch, that the port connected to the printer sends out no power.
OptimalCynic@reddit
IEEE 802.3 mandates 1500V of galvanic isolation on an ethernet port. Ask him why he just admitted his products aren't standards compliant.
MaTOntes@reddit
So they are saying their products are not compliant with ethernet standards. Way to admit that their product is faulty.
mo0n3h@reddit
Sir, absolutely top priority to investigate sir. This could be a fire hazard if true; we will endeavour to disable Poe on each printer port identified - but first we will carry out a thorough investigation.
Which printers exactly have been affected so far? I’ll be in contact with my vendor to raise this as an immediate concern and have the affected printers investigated to confirm suspicions.
I’ll bet you don’t get any examples. If you do; log a ticket with vendor and explain your exec has concluded tbe printer’s motherboard’s been fried by the POe switches. Please confirm so we can start quoting to replace our switching infrastructure.
rimjob_steve@reddit
Ask for the logs.
ByteFryer@reddit
Yeah, no. By in the printer industry, I mean we have a large printer technician presence and that is complete BS. Love it because I almost never have to touch our printers.
aries1500@reddit
I hate printing. can we get another "save the trees" push so the dying printer world can finally be dead instead of a ghost that haunts us!?
Casty_McBoozer@reddit
My response would be "Fuck right off."
cisco_bee@reddit
What do they want you to do about it? I think you have three options:
Fight this, make an enemy.
Disable PoE on that/those ports (as u/Ignorance84 suggests), and move on with your life.
Malicious compliance. Remove all PoE switches. Then be forced to install power to all cameras and PoE devices.
iCashMon3y@reddit
It's not his CTO. Why would he remove all of his PoE switches?
cisco_bee@reddit
Oof. I missed that detail. My new response would be "We're looking for another company"
KickedAbyss@reddit
I would be very helpful with this meme
KickedAbyss@reddit
Though you could also leverage this to your advantage:
"Interesting. Now, by the 802.11 standards, a device shouldn't get power over ethernet unless it is specifically requesting/trying to pull power from the power lines, but as HP is out to make money, it seems reasonable they are intentionally attempting to fry their own machines to have us buy more - so let's invest that money in a win-win by implementing a NAC (Fortinac, etc) to ensure that any time a printer is plugged into any port, PoE is disabled at the switch itself.
CAPICINC@reddit
I'd respond by saying we should, therefore, get rid of all the printers.
KickedAbyss@reddit
It's the only way to be sure.
PuDLeZ@reddit
I've never had poe kill a device completely but I have had it kill some networking controllers in cheap development boards. While they should have been able to handle a standard, I'm also more forgiving since they're development boards... Also, I was either unlucky with a windows dev kit 2023 where the network controller was DOA or my Poe unifi switch killed it. Microsoft shipped me a replacement but I disabled Poe on that port because I'm too "scared" to see if that was the cause.
So, while I wouldn't completely rule out the claim, I would also expect them to properly handle a standard and also test it before releasing the product.
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
UPDATE, this is what there sent me from HP:
CrazyFoque@reddit
This is a product flaw.
Pretty moronic.
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
Agreed, I asked them to use a different model
CrazyFoque@reddit
And Aruba is HP and they sell switches. That seems weird. I would mess with them and put a small unmanaged switch between the actual POE switch and the printer.
UltraEngine60@reddit
This coming from the same company that bricks the firmware of printers using third party ink... You might as well send them a video made with AI showing how PoE makes MFP print faster because it has more voltage. Both are equally credible.
Clovis69@reddit
I'm having HP toner throw those errors now saying it's third party ink - had 7 of 9 black 305a and 305x do this in the last 20 days
Silent331@reddit
Proving what was already known, HP printers are garbage
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Gotta be honest, when I opened the thread, I was surprised to see everyone jumping on the "this guy is an idiot" train. IMO, this is 100% believable.
I have seen weirder things in IT. And I have seen much weirder things involving printers.
Tbh, I'm not sure why you are fighting this, unless there are thousands of these things. Just disable the poe on the port. It's not a hill worth dying on, especially with the CTO.
But we each have to choose our own battles, so you gotta make your own choice.
HugeAlbatrossForm@reddit
Tf is wise channel partner? Seems like he is stretching to say that this comes from hp.com
HugeAlbatrossForm@reddit
I like your date format. Iso8601 baby!
Bertie_McGee@reddit
Well after I stopped laughing, I'd ask them how they could have failed so badly in their initial design.
jcpham@reddit
No U
cbass377@reddit
Send them the requirements that the POE switch addresses, and say "Please recommend 3 switches that your printers support."
The_Wkwied@reddit
"Why are you selling printers that don't match the 802 PoE standard? Since you've brought this to our attention, what are the next steps for you to replace all the HP printers that we have that seemingly do not abide by 802 PoE?"
tristand666@reddit
If you would write your network stack according to the common standards, this would not be possible. Are you saying your printers do not conform to industry standards, or do you have some evidence of another device out of spec causing an issue?
anna_lynn_fection@reddit
How many machines, on how many switches, in how many locations, etc?
I've been doing this long enough to know that "standards" aren't always as standard as we wish they were. I've seen plenty of devices that claim to follow standards but then you get the right two connected to each other and find out they have a problem that they don't have with any other configuration.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that it might be possible that there's some weird combination of things that could be true where your switch manufacturer is 99.9% on spec and/or HP is 99.9% on spec, but that .1% on either of them could be causing an issue that replacing either of them would resolve.
Or it could even be some strange edge case where your patch panels allow some bleed over from the power on the cables to the data ports that the HP machines are more susceptible.
My first impression is that it's a bullshit claim by them, but then I remember all the times in my 30+ year career where I've run into the strangest shit. The same strange shit that led me into learning electronics component troubleshooting and repair, getting an oscilloscope and spectrum analyzer, etc.
I had one a month ago where a NVR was acting as a rogue DHCP server, but only to the phones. Why? Wireshark verified it. I saw DHCP replies to the phones only.
I've seen USB storage devices that won't work on one computer work on another (same OS).
I've seen crappy 802.11 implementations cause all kinds of WiFi issues.
So... maybe...
JamesArget@reddit
Eaton 100mb NMC had the same issue.
Bodycount9@reddit
most companies that use PoE turn it on or off based on the port usage. that is if the network admin has any brains. it's setup per port.
so a HP printer connected to the switch should have PoE turned off on that port.
ONDRE@reddit
PoE is my favourite underrated tech. I want to PoE all the things.
HugeAlbatrossForm@reddit
You see guys charing their phones with POE? Neat!
ONDRE@reddit
All the things.
For real though, I would love to see more PoE across more consumer-grade products like wireless APs.
KittensInc@reddit
The spec is too complicated for that, unfortunately. For basic consumer-grade hardware, the PoE stuff could easily end up being the most expensive part of the product.
Add to that the lack of PoE-supplying switches in consumer households, and it rapidly becomes nearly impossible to justify.
JVBass75@reddit
I manage a fleet of 60,000 or so HP printers (not MFP, but M605s, M605s and M553s). Many are plugged into PoE switches with the power enabled, I have NEVER seen an issue with a PoE port killing a printer.
whythehellnote@reddit
Thoughts and prayers
BarServer@reddit
60000 HP printers? Jesus, what do you work for?
JVBass75@reddit
automobile dealer industry...
I have written a TON of automation to do the tasks
NetoriusDuke@reddit
Manages 60,000 hp printers, outta time for anything else.
whythehellnote@reddit
HP are killing printers with their anti-consumer practices.
AkkerKid@reddit
MAYBE passive PoE could hurt some things? (Some IoT vendors and early Ubiquiti stuff ran a constant 12-48vDC for those non-PoE-standard devices.)
Standard (active) PoE (+/++/+++) never sends voltage out the port without the downstream device putting a very specific load/signal on the line first.
Still, Ethernet is galvanically isolated on devices that don't use/produce PoE so there should never be a real problem.
loupgarou21@reddit
After having worked in IT for a looong time, and having dealt with a lot of vendors, I'd just offer to disable POE for the ports the switches are plugged into to see if that resolves whatever issue he thinks it's causing. If he's talking about not honoring some sort of warranty or contract, I'd have someone in your company that is empowered to do so start making noise about breach of contract and/or warranty.
pakman82@reddit
That screenshot is "damning" of HP. It means their not properly utilizing or designing their devices around the standard. Which is sad/ crazy because they also produce network gear. On the other hand, isn't it kind of expensive to have Poe on every port always? Also, iirc, at one point some HP devices came with or mentioned POE isolators.. but that was in the 90's.. and I didn't question it. Corporate just paid for it.
etherizedonatable@reddit
I thought they'd spun all the networking gear off to HPE, and HP was left with printing and PCs. Haven't had to deal with either for some time now, though.
POE ports do typically cost more, but whether or not it makes sense to have POE on the printer port depends on what else you have on those switches. If you're using IP phones--which generally need POE--most of your switch ports are going to use it. You could have a non-POE switch, but depending on the number of devices and how everything is cabled it may not make sense.
Having said that, POE typically shouldn't be an issue for a non-POE device so I'd be giving HP a little side eye here. Still, I'd personally turn off POE on that port and (if it helps) call it a day.
Consistent_Photo_248@reddit
Ask him why his printers don't comply with 802.3.
Different-Hyena-8724@reddit
Tell him his toner/ink models are causing the phones to reboot.
chaz6@reddit
Perhaps someone has been using non-standard POE injectors that do not do negotiation and just dumps 24V or 48V straight into the wire.
Kurgan_IT@reddit
If a POE port can kill an HP printer, I'll make sure to use POE everywhere so that I kill as many HP printers as possible.
traydee09@reddit
Most, if not all PoE switches allow you to turn off PoE on individual ports. Shut it down.
But also tell your printer company to put better NIC's in. Any quality NIC wont have a problem with PoE on the other end.
Arudinne@reddit
But that would increase costs meaning less money for the shareholders.
7ep3s@reddit
let me tell you about the time when the FNG ran the cable from the PoE port to the appliance over the roof and used a goddamn ethernet joiner that had zero resistance to water
zz9plural@reddit
"OK, bye"
Followed by reaching out to the competition.
CoasterCOG@reddit
We once had a printer vendor tell us that the issues we had with the fax queue locking on up our copiers happened:
"because you have 4 conductors in your rj11 cables instead of using the 2 conductor cables we supplied and it is supplying too many amps".
Unable-Entrance3110@reddit
That's hilarious because our Konica tech who comes out to deal with issues was pointing the finger at my network, PoE in particular, for one particular printer's continual problems.
I pointed out a few things: 1) While, yes, PoE is enabled on this printer's port, it is enabled on all switch ports, including other printers' ports which are working fine, and 2) Power is never delivered unless requested (not passive PoE)
In any case, I disabled PoE on the printer ports and, sure enough, we continued to have problems with that printer.... swing and a miss...
SlowZeck@reddit
Get all printer Mac address, find them on switch. Desactivate poe on port where printer are. Problem solved. Tell him xerox/Minolta etc... is better and cheaper...
bythepowerofboobs@reddit
It's dumb, but just disable POE on the printer ports and move on.
skspoppa733@reddit
Tell them it’s a sign that they should stop producing printers for people to print things out on 8.5”x11” sheets that they already have on their 24” screens in front of them.
zazbar@reddit
good news, i am not powering my printer over poe.
Gadgetman_1@reddit
I'd tell them that if their printers can't handle that, their printers aren't 'fit for purpose' and we'd like to return the crap for a refund.
InfaSyn@reddit
A8Bit@reddit
POE is part of the IEEE spec, if the JetDirect cards they are using in those HP printers cannot harmlessly ignore the unneeded POE input, they are insufficient for the needs of the org and should be replaced with cards that can.
That's a 'them' problem, not a 'you' problem.
I_T_Gamer@reddit
I'm sorry C-level, this is all I have to offer.....
Lerxst-2112@reddit
https://i.redd.it/dbwim8h4qqpe1.gif
HugeAlbatrossForm@reddit
YOU’RE A FUNNY GUY. Click
HugeAlbatrossForm@reddit
Nodes have to ask for POE. Why are his shitty printers asking for power?
ardweebno@reddit
This is complete dogshit. 802.3af/at are IEEE standards that are part of the parent standard for 802.3 Ethernet. If HP is telling you that PoE power is killing their printers, then they have released products that do not comply with IEEE 802.3 specifications, which is a MUCH bigger problem.
That being said, do you have the ability to disable PoE on the upstream switches? If so, it's worth your time to disable PoE on a few of the printer upstream ports so you can test for yourself if this is real or HP is just tossing nonsense at you to make you go away.
andpassword@reddit
I see the tech support guy from the infamous Tuxedo Jack story has achieved his final form.
Bimpster@reddit
You may be wrong but you may be right. Like a yes, no, maybe answer. Dumb switches for smart printers… Prove it, or we’ll test it for you and get warranty work on the dead printer.
Genrawir@reddit
Express sympathy that their products are clearly having either firmware or hardware issues with compatibility to an industry standard and offer to beta test firmware updates or hardware as they work to resolve their issues.
dlyk@reddit
Why is PoE even enabled on printer ports?
CaptainZhon@reddit
It's not a business class printer if it can't handle POE, I have plugged old jet direct 100MB print servers into POE ports no problem.
ycnz@reddit
It's not a network printer if it can't handle POE. At least, not an ethernet network printer.
rtwright68@reddit
Printer company & "CTO." The printer guys barely understand networking at its core and have no ability to troubleshoot anything.
All of our switches are POE and every printer known to man are plugged into them. If a device doesn't use POE, guess what, it doesn't use POE.
This falls under the "blame everything else but our crappy hardware" section.
Boysterload@reddit
A Konica tech asked me to do this several years ago to troubleshoot some strange issues. Didn't resolve.
djb_83@reddit
I just wrote a similar post, now deleted, as I thought it was Canon and you have reminded me it was pre my Canon days when we had KM, so second this yes. Nothing came of it, just a dud bit of troubleshooting on their part.
djb_83@reddit
We had the crap from Canon many years ago. Pretty sure we just tried to calmly explain how PoE worked, and that they should move on to the next item in their troubleshooting list. It took a while for them to though and kept cropping up. Stand firm.
Sgt-Tau@reddit
I'm absolutely sure the problem has nothing to do with companies using the cheapest parts they can find to manufacture said printers and padd their profits. Sometimes, it's a miracle these things would power up in the first place. One year, we bought some of the more expensive printers from HP thinking they would be nice and reliable. Every single one of them had a main board failure about a month past warranty expiring. It still took a bit of complaining to home office purchasing that that model was not reliable.
I still believe that the last great printer that HP ever made was the Laser jet 2100. When we realized the newer printers were trash, I kept a bone yard of old printers and started cannibalizing for parts. The one I bought for home use lasted about 10 years. I managed to get our office a copy of the service manual for that model, and I did all the post warranty repairs myself.
JohnnyricoMC@reddit
Sure I've seen a device doing weird things while plugged into a PoE port: my cheap cable tester while I was putting keystones on the network cables in my house and I had one end already plugged into a PoE switchport.
Other than that little edge case... If HP printers cannot handle being plugged into an 802.3af-compliant switchport, I'd say the issue lies with HP printers.
And I wouldn't accept a friggin' podcast as a source OP. It's essentially worthless for people with a hearing disability and most people can read faster than they can listen to spoken text. They should provide a written article (with cited sources in it) or at the very least a transcript.
J0hnR0gers@reddit
Thats another reason to not use HP
Also, that podcast sounds terrible
mschuster91@reddit
First, check if you actually have proper 802.x PoE installed or if it's some rancid proprietary PoE stuff that definitely is not meant to be used with regular network equipment on the other side, I've seen stuff injecting raw 24V on the wires and that can kill the magnetics. Check ALL wiring from begin to end, it may be the case that someone installed a PoE injector in a raised floor for surveillance cameras or whatever. I've seen absolutely wild things in legacy environments.
If that is not the case, bring in an electrician to have a look at your electricity wiring. The printer company is talking out of their ass obviously but something is frying the boards, and if it's not super-old pseudo PoE you might be having issues with ground potential differences (where some equalization current flows not via the regular ground but via the shield of ethernet cables) due to improper grounding, loose neutral connections, star-point shift (not sure what the English term is, it's mostly relevant in european three phase wiring but can also happen in American split-phase setups), industrial machinery with improperly installed or broken motor protection leading to voltage spikes due to backfeed, broken surge arrestors or improperly installed lightning protection, the list of failure modes is pretty much endless.
dnuohxof-2@reddit
Well damn, that many errors just for PoE, worth it just to find a vendor that doesn’t suck.
fooby1420@reddit
CTO clearly a cat
https://youtu.be/CSK1D3bZhRs?si=pD8TCTim6GKg5DlX
teeweehoo@reddit
While this is laughable, weird things can happen. If you have a location that is killing lots of printers maybe put some on non-POE switches and see what happens. If it's easy you may as well. If they still push, and its standards PoE, just send a screenshot of PoE disabled on every port.
Have you checked if your incoming power has weird fluctuations (under voltage, over voltage, etc). Or are you in a manufacturing space where you may have lots of EM flying around?
Chivako@reddit
Maybe possible with the old Ubiquiti toughswitches that had passive POE. No way with any switch supporting 802.3af or newer.
OldQuaker44@reddit
If you forcely enable POE then it night do damage. Otherwise they are just fucking stupid. They basically state that those printers cannot be connected to a professional level network switch. How dumb.
serverhorror@reddit
I'd forward that to a contact at the switch vendors or manufacturer and ask them if that is true and what to do about it.
Then I'll just watch ensue.
B1ND3R_aus@reddit
Check your logs in switch. Prove port isn’t supplying any power, then tell them that their wrong
badlybane@reddit
Wth poe literally does not come on unless the device sends a call to the switch to get voltage. So unless that printer company devs don't know how to no do that then I would ask who his boss his, record him being stupid. Then send it to the CTO boss if it is ceo etc.
Collaborations tools like teams etc killed printers. Before you woukd print off a page go a meeting edit the page and make mark ups and fix in.
Now everyone just pulls up the doctor and works on it. High capacity storage means paper copies are not needed. Now that you can 3 2 1 with cheap cloud storage.
Also cloud providers nuke mfps so often that the printer devs can't keep up and it does not want to keep and old ftp server around just for a few scan jobs.
wildcarde815@reddit
'then the printer is not operating based on established international standards and needs to be repaired.'
systonia_@reddit
Lol "PoE is killing printers"
HP shows up
Lmao, can't make this up. How is this company still in business
2c0@reddit
Canon claimed this too. I just said I'd look into it. Never done a damn thing. Active PoE carries no risk unless the end device requests PoE, in which case it's the vendor at fault.
Excellent_Milk_3110@reddit
A couple of years back we deployed a lot off brother printers. They all stopped working after some hours. Would still respond on icmp and web interface but no Printing. Until i found out when saving the lan config it start working again for a couple of hours. In the end this was not poe related but updating the Cisco switches firmware resolved all issues.
snowsnoot69@reddit
I would respond by saying “Good! I hate printers!”
b-g-h@reddit
lol. 200+ ways to suggest responding with various flavours of “fuck off”
lxsw20@reddit
many many years ago we used to find cisco poe switching killing HP jet direct cards.
Difficult-Way-9563@reddit
4 or 7 (I’d probably pick 7 if he’s annoying or just pulling this outta his ass to save his hide - 4 if he’s legit just questioning the realities of tech).
michaelpaoli@reddit
And ... why would one do PoE enabled port to non-PoE device? I never have ... at least not yet anyway ... and I've been dealing with PoE for quite a number of years (at least a decade+) now.
Nik_Tesla@reddit
I'd say "Why do your printers accept PoE power?"
Panda-Maximus@reddit
PoE injector blocks maybe. Poe switches that are standards based; highly unlikely. There is an entire conversation that happens before more than .1W of power is applied to the circuit.
NexusOne99@reddit
Good. Kill all the printers.
Weary_Patience_7778@reddit
Huh? 802.11af and 802.11at both depend on the device negotiating the need for PoE. No negotiation? No power.
If HPs devices are failing on a PoE switch, then whoever designed the network module on those units has shat the bed. That should be a recall on HPs end, don’t blame the user.
rw_mega@reddit
That doesn’t make sense, there is a handshake to determine how much power to send. If the copier does not support Poe it shouldn’t send a response and therefore not get power on that port from switch.
zombiebender@reddit
HP, the company that just this month sent a software update that bricked its own printers wants us to believe POE damages them? Go on.
Vetzero@reddit
Got the same thing from HP on our side. It's a shitshow.
Sxeptomaniac@reddit
My response would be something along the lines of, "so you're telling me your products aren't compatible with current switch standards? Is that what I need to tell my supervisors and why we need to start looking for a different vendor? Sure, we'll test turning off POE, but it still means your product is not to standards."
Either support is going to change their tune at the thought of being seen as a substandard product, or they won't and they'll prove it true. It obviously depends on the company, but my company has changed products because they failed to keep up with current networking standards, so it is a very real risk when a company makes that their stance.
g2g079@reddit
Are you delivering PoE to non PoE devices?
VNJCinPA@reddit
I purchased a HP Grounding Subscription that seemed to fix the issue. It's only $5.99/month to print over PoE switches.
How JV is HP printing...
quixoticbent@reddit
Goodbye! I already said my piece years ago.
I was done before you made downloads contingent on support, before you instituted 15 minute wait time for support. I'll pay substantially more to work with a company that isn't incompetent and ill-motivated.
Jaereth@reddit
Reply?
I'd say standards exist for a reason. If POE switches are killing your printers they aren't actually doing "Ethernet". We'll now be moving away from this brand / partnership to another brand that can actually handle proper Ethernet standards.
jmbpiano@reddit
I would never accuse any printer company of being competent enough to produce a product that isn't adversely affected by modern, commonly deployed infrastructure!
Frankly, I find it amazing that they've gone as long as they have being able to withstand 50/60 Hz power circuits.
buzzlit@reddit
With an eggplant emoji
luciu_az@reddit
Which specification of Ethernet is your product non-compliant with that causes your product to fail this way?
rileyg98@reddit
That would be an issue on HPs side, PoE is part of the spec and dealing with it is up to the device having problems
Smith6612@reddit
I can see Ethernet cards getting blown up if someone is using a PoE switch that isn't using Active Ethernet, but is instead using Passive Ethernet, like older 24v PoE switches tend to be.
But 802.3af/at PoE? Nah. Someone's got a badly designed NIC if Active PoE is blowing up their boards.
Sceptically@reddit
"Please replace the faulty printers, and let us know when you've fixed the design flaw in your printers that causes them to die when connected to POE switches."
Casual_pizza_enjoyer@reddit
Can you show this in a production environment vs a test environment vs whatever you put into chat gpt?
rdldr1@reddit
That's what you fucking get for having an HP printer.
EvilSibling@reddit
I would say ethernet standards exist for a reason, the standards for PoE have existed for decades, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of devices that do not require or support PoE work absolutely fine when connected to a PoE enabled port which is by design not by accident.
Silence_1999@reddit
Printer nic’s have sucked since the dawn of network printing compared to most of the rest of the network world. At my last job the director was livid that I left printers sitting on an old 100 m/bit switch after he under estimated future PoE requirement.
So you want me to move all these to gig ports. Turn off everything so they are in manual mode forced duplex/speed. So I can move them all off when PoE phones hit this summer? You go ahead if you want to!
GreezyShitHole@reddit
Only time I have seen this is with passive POE where it just sends a specific voltage without negotiating.
JVBass75@reddit
I manage a fleet of around 60,000 HP printers.. few MFPs, but mostly M605s M608s and M553s...
I have NEVER seen a report of a PoE port killing a printer... our switches are a combo of Meraki and Cisco
redbaron78@reddit
I would ask what s/he thinks is failing in the POE negotiation, which stage of the negotiation the failure occurs, and how voltage ever hits the wire without the negotiation finishing.
shaggydog97@reddit
Passive PoE is a thing. Common in the WISP (outside wireless) world. That can certainly ruin your day if you turn it on, on a port with a device that doesn't support it because there is no handshake to determine if the device supports it or now, it just blasts a voltage over the wire.
MeatPiston@reddit
I knew hp printers were shit but this is a whole new level of incompetence
neploxo@reddit
I would say a lot more likely scenario is users connecting equipment from different floors/power circuits to the same switch, PoE or not. People don't realize the ground potential can be different on different circuits resulting in current flow between devices connected to/through a switch.
https://www.vcelink.com/blogs/focus/how-to-avoid-and-fix-ground-loop-in-networking
Majik_Sheff@reddit
Unless you're using shielded cables there is no current path between devices. Both ends are galvanically isolated on each pair.
Unless a device contains circuitry to use PoE it cannot be harmed by it.
Valkeyere@reddit
Turn off the POE from the switch. Power via cable. They provide the cable.
ShakedownStreetSD@reddit
Tell them to remove the 25 k/ohm resistor that signals the switch to start delivering power. Per the robots - 1. Voltage Levels: • 2.7V to 10V DC is well below the maximum voltage ratings of typical Ethernet PHYs (Physical Layer devices) and magnetics. • Ethernet devices (even non-PoE ones) are designed to tolerate transient voltages much higher than normal data signal levels because of electromagnetic interference (EMI), ESD events, and power fluctuations. 2. Current Limiting: • The PSE limits the current during detection to a very small amount, in the milliamp range. • This current is insufficient to cause heating, component stress, or latch-up in semiconductor devices. 3. Isolation: • Ethernet ports inherently include transformer isolation (magnetics) as part of the spec. • This galvanic isolation prevents DC voltages from directly impacting sensitive circuitry behind the magnetics. • So, the detection voltage appears across the isolated side, not directly across the device’s core logic.
Followed by:
Counterpoints / Edge Cases: 1. Improperly Designed Devices: • Devices cutting corners, omitting proper isolation, or using substandard magnetics might theoretically be at risk. • Such designs are non-compliant with Ethernet standards and could be vulnerable even without PoE. 2. Passive PoE Injectors (Non-Standard): • Unlike IEEE 802.3af/at/bt, “passive PoE” injectors blindly apply 24V, 48V, or higher with no detection or current limiting. • Connecting non-PoE devices to passive injectors can cause damage, especially if they lack proper isolation. 3. Cable Faults: • Shorted or improperly wired cables could, in theory, expose devices to voltages outside intended paths, but that’s a general wiring issue, not PoE-specific.
So basically, maybe if you use a shit injector or have shit cabling. But, it’s an engineering thing on their end
jfreak53@reddit
Basically too many companies have complained about this issue the past two years, we don't know why, our engineers gave up trying to fix their code years ago. So we found something widely adopted that we can't prove and you can't disprove to blame! Yet for us! 🤣 bunch of loons, I don't believe anything hp says.
TaliesinWI@reddit
"Dear Mr. CTO, I feel you should know that some asshole is signing your name to idiotic E-mails."
PwNAR3S@reddit
Obligatory printers are from hell.
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers
Ol_JanxSpirit@reddit
"Many people are saying."
OptimalCynic@reddit
By hurling one at him
Mizerka@reddit
Got about 250 Kyoceras, all on Poe+ ports. Only time they failed is when infosec drones decided it's reasonable to scan all printers with tenable, all ports, taking printers down one by one at 9am just in time for morning brew.
hso1217@reddit
Turn off PoE and test. No reason to get into an argument.
ExceptionEX@reddit
I would respond, that if it does it or not, many manufactures will say it does, and though you have to handshake to get power from a POE switch, we have seen printers do weird shit when plugged into POE. And simply using on their hardware generally violates the terms of their support, so you only fuck yourself doing it.
We segregate our networks, where I am none, and only POE devices go on POE networks. Its cleaner and easier that way, and avoids any shit from any of our hardware vendors about it.
elpollodiablox@reddit
So have the printer use that power to perform a function. Like maybe have it print when I hit "Print" instead of just making whirring noises.
eddyb66@reddit
I think HP greed is killing their printers.
bad_brown@reddit
Ask them if ethernet signaling is AC or DC, and if PoE is AC or DC =)
clubfungus@reddit
Look, the OLD version of PoE, called "Passive" PoE always put a voltage on the wire, with no negotiation.
But that is old, old tech. With modern PoE, or "active" PoE, devices query the switch for PoE, and if the switch can provide the type of PoE the device needs, only then is power put on the wire.
So if you have old, non-rfc-compliant, "passive" PoE switches, ???
But really I think they're full of it.
funnyfarm299@reddit
Sometimes it's not worth the time to argue your case. Just buy a cheap non-PoE switch and put the affected printers on it. When the issue continues put them back on your regular switches.
clubfungus@reddit
Look, the OLD version of PoE, called "Passive" PoE always put a voltage on the wire, with no negotiation.
But that is old, old tech. With modern PoE, or "active" PoE, devices query the switch for PoE, and if the switch can provide the type of PoE the device needs, only then is power put on the wire.
So if you have old, non-rfc-compliant, "active" PoE switches, ???
But really I think they're full of it.
clubfungus@reddit
All of their listed symptoms happen on non-PoE networks too.
brianozm@reddit
It’s unlikely but possible if the POE switches are sending spikes. Unlikely but possible.
scienceproject3@reddit
"What poe switches, we are not using any POE switches"
Crispy_Jon@reddit
Ahh, you're dealing with shitty HP printers.
PurpleCableNetworker@reddit
Turn off POE on that port. “POE isn’t being delivered to the printer.”
Ok_Tumbleweed_7988@reddit
just turn off PoE on the switchport = printer fixed
RaNdomMSPPro@reddit
This is why you don’t sign contracts to let printer companies do networking.
admiraljkb@reddit
I'd ask him if he's experiencing a "420" error.
RoaringRiley@reddit
"Lol, good one. I bet you think opening multiple browser tabs will 'break the computer' also."
sprprepman@reddit
“Lol”.
pertexted@reddit
No.
Public_Fucking_Media@reddit
"POE has been an Ethernet standard for forever, what is wrong with your printers?"
Tb1969@reddit
Extract the tiny cables in the ethernet cable. Locate the power cables and put them on your tongue in front of him.
Act like you've been tazed for drama.
Pingu_87@reddit
You're not using weird passive POE switches are you?
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
Fortinet
OrdyNZ@reddit
Nothing to do with the POE comment. But if your printers are dying, do you have surge protection on them?
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
3rd party, they do not
nighthawke75@reddit
Provide more information, please.
djgizmo@reddit
provide proof. the voltage on active poe switches is negotiated on connection. if the other side ( the printer) doesn’t provide a negotiated rate, voltage is 0.
illicITparameters@reddit
“Here’s my Cisco Account reps info. Please tell him why their switches are killing your crappy printers.”
I would then forward the original email, a long with a copy of the contract, to legal and ask them how we can go about getting out of it.
jaskij@reddit
There could be truth to that - standard Ethernet termination can get damaged if given PoE. So if your switches are putting out voltage unasked (old school "passive PoE") this could very well be happening. If they aren't? Yeah, proof or stfu.
Alert-Mud-8650@reddit
This reminds me. I took over the a sites network a few weeks back. Whoever hooked up their Unifi APs just used the wall jack to a poe af injector then set the AP on a end table.
I was like you could have at least put the poe injectors in the network closet.
Then I noticed they that a POE capable switch so they didn't even need injectors. So, I removed the poe af injectors. But one of the AP's didn't power up. I tested the network drop and it passed. Then, I went back to the switch and started following the network line and noticed it went to another but older unifi 24v poe injector.
So 3 sources of Power over 1 Ethernet cable. Wild Right. Somehow that extra 24v passive poe didn't mess any thing up
jaskij@reddit
Because the device at the end supported PoE, or didn't have termination. If the device supports any sort of PoE, it may not work with a passive injector, but it won't be damaged. And the injector itself... Eh, no clue, but likely that its internal construction stopped any damage.
reviewmynotes@reddit
I would say that I've never seen that before. If he kept pushing, then I'd ask what specific measurements are causing him to come to that conclusion. If he just kept insisting, is ask for another technician to be assigned to our account / this issue. If he still insisted and provided no evidence, I'd offer the chance to cancel the contact and take back the faulty and/or standards non-compliant equipment.
brshoemak@reddit
Just send him the link to this post. I can't see anything bad happening.
EscapeFacebook@reddit
Disable a test group and watch.
ittek81@reddit
“You’re wrong and I won’t be doing business with your company”.
SquizzOC@reddit
“Well you’re a clear indication that titles are made up” lol
RCG73@reddit
If that’s the case they need to build better printers
brispower@reddit
Disable Poe on the ports that have printers?
virtualadept@reddit
"You're on crack."
Stonewalled9999@reddit
So are we allowed to say sod off anymore ?
Sansui350A@reddit
So... this isn't likely a PoE problem but more an electrical issue. The only way this might be switch-related is if it's cheapo switch gear. Have an electrician test circuits, go for some proper isobar surge protector PDU's on all the switch gear. Routers/Modems/Firewalls/Switches etc.. the lot, ditto for the printers they're having issues with. Something is causing a voltage differential or something else is miswired or shorted in some way.
Immediate-Serve-128@reddit
Mr it's never the printers fault CTO, huh?
IntergalacticPlane@reddit
Is his company trying to also sell PoE injectors?
elkab0ng@reddit
I put on my wizard cloak and IEEE card
Please proceed, maker of defective printer…
janky_koala@reddit
Having seen it cause issues on building access controllers I’d just disable PoE on those ports and get in with my day. Life’s too short
ibringstharuckus@reddit
Can't you turn off poe on the switch ports the printers are connected to?
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
We can, they are saying the POE is killing the HP printers randomly
SleepPingGiant@reddit
The only thing that could do that would be passive PoE which is 24v that's pretty good at smoking things but it's not too common these days.
JabbaDuhNutt@reddit (OP)
Agreed, we are on Fortinet
pgallagher72@reddit
“Why do you make printers so low quality that a switch can kill it, wtf is wrong with your company?”
Barbarian_818@reddit
How would I reply?
"You're just trying to weasel out of honouring the warranties on a bunch of printers with shitty onboard LAN hardware."
punkwalrus@reddit
When I first read this, I thought you meant business wise, and I thought, "how could POE switches compete with printers? They do different things."
jcpham@reddit
4 buildings of active POE switches, like 20 printers scattered. Some printers are 20 years old: M600’s P4000’s P3000’s no fucks given. Printers work fine.
Maybe your shit isn’t grounded properly in which case this might be possible
Ok-Juggernaut-4698@reddit
So, your printers aren't IEEE 802 compliant?
RJTG@reddit
Well if you have Passive PoE Switches you may be able to do so ...
I think what the CTO got from their technicians was probably something like:
In our logs it looks as if there are low bandwith or high error rates when transmitting large files and therefore the printers struggle sometimes and have to load some files again, which leads to faster depreciation of the mainboards.
A common issue is a bad electrician and the power and ethernet cables are next to eachother.
IIrc I had exactly this discussion about a pagewide after the printer-technician diagnosed the second mainboard defekt in two years. It turned out to be a defective Cat5e patchcable.
gaybatman75-6@reddit
“So then why aren’t our desktops and laptop docks being fried?”
cybot904@reddit
Well. You can disable PoE on those ports...
nichomach@reddit
"That's very interesting. Are you sure you know what either of those things are?"
ntw2@reddit
Er, show him that PoE switches don’t send power unless the device requests it.
brimston3-@reddit
Tell the vendor that ethernet magnetic are required by specification to support 1kV of electrical isolation. And they would be falsely advertising ethernet compatibility by not being in spec.
NotBaldwin@reddit
I could believe that a specific poe switch is murdering printers through a fault, or that potentially a model or firmware version of a specific poe switch is murdering printers due to some insane bug.
I could also believe that some strange condition is causing some kind of additional current in a cat5 cable.
Poe switches don't kill printers.
canadian_sysadmin@reddit
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
ccosby@reddit
I'd tell him to prove it as well. The only thing I can think of is back with the very early POE this kinda could be a thing but you prob wouldn't notice it with a printer. I remember some early POE switches not cutting POE off fast enough if you unplugged a POE device. So like if you unplugged something poe and then plugged in a laptop quickly it could fry the laptop's nic.
CraftyCat3@reddit
I've only ever seen it happen with dumb/passive poe injectors that always send power (fuck those things).
OhTeeEyeTee@reddit
I’m interested to know how many printers have died via fried boards for him to say this
mr_data_lore@reddit
I'd find a new printer vendor.
rdesktop7@reddit
Some ethernet devices won't put up with POE ports.
Have them explain more.
Procedure_Dunsel@reddit
Bovine Scatology
totmacher12000@reddit
LMFAO
countsachot@reddit
Nah, they are simply making shit printers while society leans towards paperless solutions.
iamscrooge@reddit
“YOUR printers die on POE ports? Man, how did your engineers manage that? I sure hope you sacked them! Now, how are you going to make good on our print contract while we wait for you to fix your bumbled products?”
liquid00level@reddit
This definitely got many of us thinking, you have to admit that.
daven1985@reddit
Umm....
NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit
They always say this shit so I put an unmanaged switch between the printer and the POE through an SFP port so there's no voltage being jumped over or anything. They still claim that shit somehow magically and that I should not be running POE switches at all because it's something to do with the power lines. At that point I tell them to shut the fuck up and replace the fucking printer already. Xerox sends out turds then they try to make you stick with them.
Hoosier_Farmer_@reddit
INFO: ask if they're taking the piss, or just a muppet.
CoffeeBaron@reddit
Build better hardware (the tech equivalent of 'git gud scrub')? They don't want to deal with their race to the bottom and move from terrible business decision to terrible decision, then blame everyone but themselves for declining sales.
Cold-Funny7452@reddit
Sometimes you have to humor people.
Give them random solutions.
Turn off POE on the ports.
Do a fiber run and converter instead of copper.
Make the solution as crazy as the unlikely problem.
Soft-Camera3968@reddit
It’s sounds unlikely to me. Disable PoE on the printer ports, provide him a log of doing so, and see how it goes. Ask for a detailed explanation of what component is failing in the printers. I guess there is a potential here if the switches are really dumb and only do passive PoE. He’s got a problem on his hands if this is his position since basically every enterprise runs PoE switches in their IDFs.
Don’t know what switches you have, but on Cisco, you can do
power inline never
trebuchetdoomsday@reddit
"IT's about to kill a CTO"
numtini@reddit
LauGghter?
Hoosier_Farmer_@reddit
same, couldn't respond, laughing too hard
K2SOJR@reddit
How would I respond? If turn around and walk away without saying another word. Seriously though, why is there a need to continue that conversation? Are they tap dancing around an issue with their devices that they don't want to own? Is this a random conversation with someone you know that is a CTO at a printer company?
TheFleebus@reddit
With laughter, derision, and a link to your post so they can see the comments.
unclesleepover@reddit
I’d consider telling them you’re still the customer and tell them to figure it out or pick it up.
packetatlas@reddit
Are the printers PoE?
HoosierLarry@reddit
😂😆😂😆😂💩🖕💋🫏
jimmytickles@reddit
Test the equipment and show it's performing in spec?
Pyrostasis@reddit
Source?
Also now I know how to kill my arch nemesis the printers!
Also, can he explain how my 10 printers have been plugged into my cisco poe switches for the last 8 years with no issues?
marvin3677@reddit
Live demonstration ?