Lost out on great candidate due to poor business decisions
Posted by Broad-Comparison-801@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 87 comments
Im the only systems/infra/devops person on a small software team that does niche stuff. we've been needing a junior for my role for a while. ive also needed a raise for a while cause most of my job is devops now.
we interviewed this 20 year old. no college, freelance coding experience, was a linux nerd applying for a linux jr sysadmin role.
he was a passionate computer person and i was excited at the very idea of a 20 year old with no college getting put on like this.
welllllllllllllll... the raises the team was supposed to get in April, along with my title change to "DevOps Engineer", have all been put on hold cause of the parent company. it sucks for me but ill be fine. my team leader already told me he's pissed and will write me a letter of rec as a devops engineer cause that's been 70% of my job...
but fuck man... i was so fucking excited for this kid. my team leader, rightfully so, put his foot down and said he wont have me training someone if i dont get a raise, cause why would i train a peer...
they could have given me a 20k raise, hired him at the bottom of their 20k salary range, and it would have evened out.... but now im probably going to leave the company costing them more in turn over, they'll have to hire the jr sysadmin at a higher rate cause theyre not paying me to train, AND theyll have to pay my replacement more than theyre paying me cause no one that knows terraform and AWS is gonna accept the role for my current mediocre sysadmin salary.
i hate the american work culture.
gotrice5@reddit
American worm culture is toxic and why shit gets done ao slow. You have people who are qualified and deserve a raise but you rather starve that person, get them to leave, pay even more money for a replacement and still cant get things up running on time because they have to learn the system put in place before working on it.
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
yeah I legitimately do not understand it.
you can look it up or just do some simple arithmetic. if you got somebody making $90,000 like me and they are worth $110,000 minimum...
if I quit tomorrow it's going to take them a couple months to replace me which is tens of thousands of dollars of lost productivity.. they're going to have to pay my manager and HR people lots of time to go through the hiring process again. and they'll lose more productivity on the back side after they've hired someone because they will have to train them up.
if I quit tomorrow they lose out on like 6 months of productivity minimum and they have to divert existing resources to replace me.
if I quit tomorrow theyre also going to have to hire my replacement at a higher dollar. they're paying me too little to do the work I'm currently doing and I've stuck around because it was great experience and I love computers. but they literally cannot replace me for the same salary I'm currently getting. nobody that knows how to do what I'm doing is going to accept a job at $90,000.
if I leave because I have an adjusted my salary to a fair market rate they're going to end up eating like $60,000 over the next 18 months just replacing me.
razzemmatazz@reddit
Ah yes, but if the company survives the crisis they'll have saved the cost of your salary this quarter. It will have just cost them a million in lost productivity...
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
bro it's honestly fucking insane. every single person in this subreddit has heard of(maybe even uses daily) 3 of our clients. HUGE clients. the 3 clients im thinking of, i personally have used multiple products from them in the past 24 hours alone.
i literally build and maintain servers and infrastructure for these clients. we have like a dozen or so devs, a couple team leaders, couple pms, and me. and i make $90k doing devops lol. im building entire terraform modules for our terragrunt architecture to deploy infrastructure for the biggest clients on the planet and i cant get a salary adjustment. i feel like im losing my mind. im the only systems person too. so it's a natural lynch pin. we're serving the largest clients on the planet with one devops engineer who's making $90k a year lmao. the business risk assumed here is so audacious it makes me wanna scream.
the experience has been great, and my team and team leader are wonderful, but the greed of corporate america is endless. i put in so much work and waited so long for the raise. only to get cucked at the finish line by someone i will never meet.
i knew when i was doing dod IT contracting after the army that the exploitation of the working class would be the downfall of this country. i was making like $65k a year doing skilled technical work in a shitty basement with the keys to EVERYTHING. it would be so easy for foriegn interests to target disgruntled federal employees/contractors.
the same is true in the private sector. this company is gonna legit burn hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars with turn over costs and lost productivity when they could have just adjusted my salary. and this is just me. there were a handful of people that were identified for adjustments that will not see raises now. the cost of turn over applies to them as well.
razzemmatazz@reddit
Not much else to add to that other than Yup.
The rich have convinced everyone to stick to short term profits because we've been on the edge of complete collapse for over a decade. Finances are made up, and it's all a grift to extract the last couple dollars before it doesn't matter anymore.
XCOMGrumble27@reddit
It's actually legally enforced behavior for publicly traded companies. Something about duty to shareholders and making line go up, but basically they can't make decisions that take a short term expense to achieve long term gains because they'll all go to jail for not prioritizing making the stock price go up. I think what we're eventually going to see is every publicly traded company become absolute rubbish whilst privately held companies will have the freedom necessary to actually be successful.
reciprocity__@reddit
This is a common misconception. Executives don't "go to jail" for failing to maximize stock prices.
It's true that we have created a system in which there are a lot of incentives for short term oriented corporate behavior, but it's certainly not a legal requirement. There is in fact nothing in US law that force companies to prioritize short term profits at the expense of other corporate strategy. It's not specifically the US law that creates this dynamic, it's stuff like investor expectations and the compensation model (e.g., stock based pay) of executives that create that pressure.
I also think the comment regarding your hypothesis on privately held companies having the freedom to be successful while public companies all go to shit is misleading and oversimplifies the situation, specifically because it ignores concepts like private equity. Check out this video.
XCOMGrumble27@reddit
My understanding is that this court case dictates legal obligations in some capacity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.
The summary provided here explicitly states that one of the outcomes was that Ford had to operate in the interests of its shareholders rather than its customers or employees. Sounds like legal obligation to prioritize short term profits to me, but I'm no legal scholar.
reciprocity__@reddit
You should read the rest of that article. The decision of the Michigan Supreme Court wasn’t about maximizing shareholder wealth. The Dodge vs. Ford Motor Co. ruling was about preserving the expectations and legal structure of a for-profit company. Under the Significance header:
And:
This latter quote includes a citation to this paper which goes into more detail and even includes primary testimony. Pages 21-27 are especially pertinent. See the Conclusion on pg. 32. The quote above begins there.
The key misconception in the original claim is that there is no legal requirement to prioritize short-term profits over long-term value and this paper covers that point. Being from 1919, other cases since Dodge v. Ford have said the same thing, but I'm happy to engage further if you're up for it.
XCOMGrumble27@reddit
The insistence of corporate leadership to set their companies on fire to feel warm for a single quarter and be left with ash for the rest of the company's curtailed lifespan makes even less sense to me now.
razzemmatazz@reddit
Eventually? It all seems like nonsense already.
Ever seen a sign-up form designed by 3 committees? It's pretty dumb.
XCOMGrumble27@reddit
I meant to the point where they actually fall apart and we see some truly outlandish nonsense like the year of the linux desktop becoming real instead of a meme because Apple and Microsoft just fumble that fucking hard.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
From a grey beard I am telling you, this is not the greed of corporate America, this is due to you (and others like you) staying at a company longer then you should.
Its very simple. In IT, you work to get skills, then you move up or out. And you keep doing this until you can't move up or out due to life or family reasons.
IT is not like other departments. In our field, the goal posts keep moving, things keep changing, systems do not last as long as in other fields. Which is why you can't understand why you don't get the raise when you get more skills and do more work or get more work done. Thats just not how it works.
sardonic_balls@reddit
For some, their job is not a "looter-shooter" where it's all about leveling up until put out to pasture. Employers need to recognize talent and ability, and yes (gasp) loyalty, at least to some extent.
That said, yes, IT is a cost-center and is treated as such despite many IT manager allusions to the contrary.
Tymanthius@reddit
To an accountant you are correct. But IT is also a force multiplier. Sure, it typically doesn't directly gain you $$. But properly implemented it makes all of your money gainers more efficient.
So it's problematic to think of it as just a cost center. Similar is true of a few other things, like safety, or even fleet management.
CatProgrammer@reddit
Isn't companies not properly compensating you for extended employment part of that whole greed thing? You wouldn't have to leave if they gave you good pay raises and shit.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
No. Some companies and some industries can't afford it. I made the most money when I worked in the Finance Industry, but I also had the most stress, so I will never work in that environment again. Not worth the 20% pay bump.
You only work to get skills, once you have enough new skills you move up or out. This is how you find the bigger and better companies that value your skills and work ethic, and can pay more.
Don't expect your existing company to just keep giving you raises as your skills and work increase. That is not how this works.
What works, specifically in IT, is you quickly move on.
Loyalty will get you taken advantage of.
taker223@reddit
Prepare to be outsourced to AI
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
lmao doubt.
I've trained models on my terraform repos and some proprietary data and it can't do what I do. AI for the next 5 years is only going to be a force multiplier. and it should be used as such. I use it every single day and it makes me exponentially more productive. but it is a long ways away from being able to do the weird in-between jobs like mine. we're honestly probably like 2 or 3 years away from it replacing a very junior level developer and you're still going to have to have a senior prompting it and then integrating is changes into the main branch.
designing, building, and maintaining infrastructure is going to be a ways away. it can barely write serviceable code at the moment.
taker223@reddit
AI is not the Artificial Intelligence but "All I*dia"
Affectionate_Bed2750@reddit
The problem with ai is that it will give you the same answer if you ask the same question time after time. On the job problems frequently don't change, but the solutions do.
hankhalfhead@reddit
You are only worth that 110 of they have to replace you. If you have to stay, you are worth 90 😬
Lyanthinel@reddit
Yeah, but if you fire more people to make up for the lost million, you don't have to explain anything. Heck, if you stagger it out right itll take a while to figure out whats going on and maybe you can have filled your gaps on a cycle with cheaper less experienced people that you can trick into accepting ridicuously bloated job duties.
You get a nice fat raise for being business savvy. Then, before the business is completely imploded, find a new job at a higher salary because of your "achievements" and hop ship.
taker223@reddit
I take you have [Si I: Ou] experience, don't you?
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
If you already know how underpaid you are why are you still there?
Like seriously, you are doing your self a disservice. And if you have a family, you are also letting them down too. You deserve to make as much money as you can.
So why aren't you?
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
they told me what my new job description job title and salary was going to be. I just found out yesterday that it's on hold. I had an actual number and a timeline that's why I'm still here. The news just broke yesterday.
I submitted around 5 quality applications with cover letters today. I'm looking elsewhere actively now. I also haven't been here that long in the grand scheme.
it will be 20 months in April, which is when I was expecting a $20,000 raise.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
Fair enough, sucks to be you. You seem to have good skills, happy hunting.
taker223@reddit
"and they have to divert existing resources to replace me."
This is exactly what they would do. I would use the word "overload" (use same resources for increased workload) . And like another Redditor wrote below, you would save them tens of thousands of $$$ in a short perspective , like "two pairs".
Who knows, maybe an unpaid intern or 10 of them would be "hired" to do your job. Or some AI ("All I*dia")
Affectionate_Ad_3722@reddit
But you don't get the money, and that's worth it to them - just to screw you over.
That's how they think.
gotrice5@reddit
From what I've heard, they have a separate budget for "hiring people" and I believe that process is so outdated and should be overhauled. Hiring people and providing raises should all be part of the same budget imo but then again, I'm looking at it with a simplistic viewpoint.
Immediate-Serve-128@reddit
Management knows best. Submit to your overlords.
No_Resolution_9252@reddit
I don't know if you have noticed, but the economy has been a complete and total disaster since the covid shutdowns. If you can leave, leave for somewhere that has a better financial situation, but good financial situations are not common right now.
apple_tech_admin@reddit
Leave ASAP. The company showed their hand. Get another offer, don’t accept the counter offer (if there is one) and leave. I know it’s painful. Best of luck.
surrealutensil@reddit
leavings easier said then done for most people these days. I was making 160K as a senior devops engineer running a team, have 20 years of experience etc. Company went under, took me 6 months of sending out hundreds of resumes a day to get a single interview, which I did get. But now i'm making less than half my old salary doing basic sysadmin work I can do with my eyes closed bored out of my mind as I continue applying to jobs and hearing nothing back.
Compared to 5 years ago when I quit a job due to some disagreements with management and had 5 job offers the next day.
VokN@reddit
You’re missing references and networking
gravityVT@reddit
You’re completely oblivious to the current market conditions. Every engineer I know that lost their job last year has been applying nonstop for months and none of them have found anything yet. Read the comments in this thread for more second and first hand experience
surrealutensil@reddit
Over half of the 500+ 1st degree LinkedIn connections I have who were in either senior management or engineering positions a year or two ago have "looking for work" tags on their profiles. You're delusional if you think that's the issue.
illicITparameters@reddit
Why is it poor business decisions to not give raises if the company is struggling?
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
I make $90,000 a year and I was told I was going to get $110,000.
The salary range for this new role is 70 to 90.
they could have hired someone with no experience at 70,000 and bumped me up and I could have trained them. that was the plan.
but now they're not going to retain me and they're going to burn like $60,000 over the next 18 months replacing me and they're going to have to hire somebody closer to the $80,000 mark for the junior candidate.
illicITparameters@reddit
So instead of spending $180K/yr in salary plus 401k match, plus payroll tax, they’ll spend $120K + 401k and payroll tax the first year according to your math… Gee, I can’t possibly see why they’d do that.
In this market, they unfortunately can get a new you for $90K, and a good junior for like $65K without even blinking. That’s a $25K+ savings. Like I just had to hire a new networking lead, and I could’ve been a cheap fuck and gotten someone good to great for $100K. But I’m not a scumbag so I got someone for almost $120K. Sad state of affairs that I’m the outlier in that.
I’m also not trying to invalidate your feelings, because they’re 100% valid, and from your seat I would feel a type of way about the situation. I’m just trying to show that for their cash flow, it’s the right move.
CowardyLurker@reddit
This is probably hard for many people to accept. It probably seems like you're being unrealistically callous about this, but I know that you're showing honesty here. I appreciate honesty, even though it's uncomfortable right now.
It's widely known that most of us have been deeply indoctrinated our entire lives to believe that everyone deserves to be rewarded for good productivity, loyalty, and efficiency. I don't know why I wish for that productivity/loyalty nonsense to be true, but it seems difficult for me to think about it in any other way.
Congrats to those who have managed to shake this yoke.
illicITparameters@reddit
It’s hard for me to accept that there’s times where I have to think about people in terms of dollars and cents. It’s a real shitty feeling.
Tragedy is probably the only reason I was able to 100% mentally move out of that loyalty/productivity/reward mindset. When you lose the person you care about the most, one of the first things you think of is all the time you wasted that could’ve been spent with that person. For me that time was dedicated to work. I cut that shit out ASAP.
Oddly enough, starting to put myself first professionally resulted in me making some of the biggest strides in my career.
D3ATHRiTE@reddit
120k for a Network Engineering Lead seems low to me. I'm a senior infrastructure guy focusing in virtualization and cloud ops and I'm at 165k with a 20% annual bonus. I'm pretty sure our junior network guys might be around 120k, but definitely seniors/leads/architects are in the 140-190k range.
illicITparameters@reddit
He got what he wanted. Literally asked him “what would ir take” he gave us a number, we paid it.
Also, I know this sub is too stupid to understand that base salary is only a part of someone’s comp package, but maybe pretend not to be so obtuse. Maybe.
taker223@reddit
Or they could move to AI people for a fraction of your salary.
fnordhole@reddit
So did they not hire him?
Or did they hire him and it cost you your raise?
The narrative seems to jump around a bit, and leave some important details out.
You introduce the letter of recommendation part without first stating you may leave.
razzemmatazz@reddit
No hire, no raise, and now he's gonna jump ship ASAP.
CowardyLurker@reddit
Sometimes it is easier to get people to do hard things if they believe it was their own idea.
I don't know anything more about the OP's particular situation, or how it came to be. Whatever it truly is, I wish that I could say that 100% for sure it was not a deliberate ruse.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
You, and most everyone else is looking at this the wrong way.
In which you WILL get a raise.
So Jr. position gets a raise.
So your replacement will get a raise.
You are holding yourself back, waiting for a company to reward you for all your hard work. Don't do that. No loyalty.
You work to get skills, and once you do, you move up or out. You don't wait around for promises. Ever.
YOU are the one holding yourself
PM_ME_UR_ROUND_ASS@reddit
This is 100% accurate. In tech, your biggest salary jumps almost always come from changing jobs. Companies budget 3-5% for raises but will pay 20-30% more to attract new talent with the same skills you already have. I doubled my income in 3 years by job hopping twice - no company would ever give you that kind of raise internally.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
This is the way. Some peeps need to ditch the loyalty card or the expectation that a company owes them anything other than their salary.
You get skills, move up or out. Its very simple.
rcp9ty@reddit
I used to be loyal until I realized every job jump I've made has given me at least $5,000 extra in my paycheck where as my "raises" were 2-3% ... except this company that I'm at now :D I stay because they treat me well and they pay me well. Plus the 401k matching plan will never be matched no matter where I move to... Most companies do a 5% with a 2.5% matching ... this company does more... i wont say how much but lets just say that its free money xD
AgentOrcish@reddit
This is why software development costs so much. The companies piss off their devs, so the devs leave, then they have to hire new people and the cycle continues..
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
100%
it's so frustrating too because we have like an outstanding team leader/senior devnow that is running this product.
He's actually trying to do things correctly and own this thing like a software product instead of just the reactionary per project per client feedback basis that we were running on for years.
it is frustrating for me but I'm an engineer. I put my headphones on and play with computers. He's like actually fighting with middle management and above who have zero idea how to own a software product.
and yeah, like you so aptly pointed out, they're setting themselves up for a bad cycle on a relatively young product. they think it's like hiring an electrician or contractor to come do XY&Z and then it's done.
it's not. it's a living project built on dozens if not hundreds of other living projects. libraries, operating systems, networking protocols, etc... All of these things, as you know, are evolving and changing and require continued maintenance.
bro i swear companies would save so much money long-term if they focused on retaining technical assets. I mean really everyone but especially people that are building and maintaining software products.
Different-Hyena-8724@reddit
Also the good thing about starting jr out small is you can have your own back org plan to turbo charge their growth with incentives.
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
bro literally.
this kids eyes were lighting up hearing about our diverse tech stach and the directions he could grow...
we make bespoke software with reallllyyy unique applications for huge clients. he could have grown in any direction and been immensely valuable long term.
How-didIget-here@reddit
Yup, it sucks. Lost an intern that was incredible because of bullshit business reasons. He has a better job now somewhere else than he would have ever gotten here so a win for him in the end.
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
yeah it's just exhausting emotionally.
i know work is work, not life. i try to separate the two... but im still a fucking human, ya know?
i got out of the army in 2020 and ive had 5 jobs since. ya i went from help desk to DevOps but it's fucking exhausting. I'm finally at an org where i get to do cool shit, build things, and solve problems. all they gotta do is pay me a market wage and i stay indefinitely. and ive told them this. that's it. im not looking for some unicorn comp package either.
im looking for $110k, the very bottom end of the DevOps pay scale and top end of sys admins in my city...
i already had the new JD and salary and they fucking yanked it for bullshit quarterly profits... AND that kid gets to keep wading through mud while he trys to find a jr role.
it's fucking annoying. they literally gave everyone iPads for Christmas at an insanely beautiful party at the CEO's historic mansion.... and i cant get a fucking raise even though im doing DevOps for the biggest fucking tech companies on the planet. clients who's services we have all used today. it's so fucking gross i hate it.
like... i wish i could tell you about our clients... im literally using IAC for multiple top 10 global tech companies and one of the biggest banks in the world.... and i make $90k a year, was promised a raise, then they pulled it.
EEU884@reddit
sounds like they put a fork in themselves. time to feast elsewhere.
schnurble@reddit
Ah, the army of one. Don't miss that at all.
Definitely punch up your resume and start looking for alternatives. Don't even ask for a counter when you find a suitable exit, just take it. They've already demonstrated they don't care about you.
werddrew@reddit
Raise pools are tough man... Companies look at their overall salary budget and try to keep it under control. If they give everyone a 10% raise every year for 5 years their overall salary expenses will have gone up 57%.
At some point they make a decision that they'd be able to survive losing experienced people to new roles outside the company that pay better and 99.9% of the time they're right, and the company lives another year. Feels dumb to us at the micro level I know, but business decisions get tougher at the top.
proxydman@reddit
I'm gonna be honest and say hoping for a 20k raise while giving a useful employee a very low 20k salary is why we got into this situation with the American work culture.
PenitentDynamo@reddit
You completely misunderstood what he wrote.
proxydman@reddit
No, I got it. It sucks, and it's cyclical.
PenitentDynamo@reddit
No you don't because he did not say that they were offering anyone a 20k salary.
proxydman@reddit
Might be a communication issue, but it is the "bottom of their 20k salary range." HR speak here makes it sound like sub 30k.
zakabog@reddit
Any job posting has a salary range, usually the range isn't that large, $20K is a normal range, $20K isn't a normal salary (in the US at least), OP really seemed to like this candidate, nothing about their post made it seem like they'd be giving a minimum wage salary in order to get a huge pay raise.
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
The exact opposite. I told my manager I was willing to put in the extra work to develop a very green candidate because I understand that true junior rolls are drying up in an alarming rate. as somebody with ADHD and shit who barely graduated high school my first help desk job was literally a fucking golden ticket for me. I live a very comfortable life now because I found out I could turn my love for computers into a salary.
I'm disheartened and discouraged because we had that candidate and I was so excited for this person to have that opportunity at 20 years old. they were going to get paid 70K a year to play with Linux with no college degree.
it's even more discouraging because it's a simple arithmetic problem. they could have bumped me up a little bit to make it worth my time to train a totally new candidate. they would have retained me long-term and probably retained the new candidate long-term as well.
I love computers and I love computer people but even from the business side this does not make sense. it's a frustrating shortsighted decision driven by unrealistic profit expectations because our parent company is publicly traded.
taker223@reddit
Sorry, OP, why should they give a F about you, your protege etc. To them you all are profit burners - they have to pay you salary and a part of your taxes.
You mentioned parent company, from their perspective is way more reasonable to get rid of as much like you as possible while squeeze the remaining till to the last drop. Maybe make them train AI people ("All I*dia")
proxydman@reddit
I thought I saw it was an interns "pay" because I mixed up posts and conversations and got mad about it. Dumb and I was wrong. I will own this shame.
PenitentDynamo@reddit
No it doesn't. There is a range of 20k for the salary. It could be anywhere from 60k to 80k or 500k to 520k. The range is still 20k. Out of that range, OP was suggesting that they could have hired him at the bottom of that range, so 500k in the latter example.
There is a communication issue. It's your poor reading comprehension and unwillingness to admit a mistake. The second is worse than the first.
proxydman@reddit
Woah, I always admit a mistake and I did. Just different language from what I'm used to dealing with and I've apologized. Small business IT here and those numbers are legit nuts to me.
PenitentDynamo@reddit
>apologized
*checks notes* Says here you admitted you were wrong and apologized AFTER I called you out for not doing so.
You're kind of a tool.
proxydman@reddit
I mean i apologized to the person about a half hour ago when they responded to me. But whatever. Logging off for the night.
PenitentDynamo@reddit
Which again was AFTER I called you out for not doing so.
proxydman@reddit
I still did not understand what you were talking about. I'm new at this and in small business. I could have been less of a weird antagonist to start.
I apologize. I'll stay out of here as I learn.
illicITparameters@reddit
Learn reading comprehension.
fnordhole@reddit
It was incredibly easy to misunderstand. Even reading OP's better punctuated clarifications, the timeline and the actual numbers do not seem clear to me.
The reader has to make a bunch kf assumptions and hope they right.
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
The salary range for the junior is a $20,000 salary range.
That's the range.
from $70,000 to $90,000.
this junior sis admin with zero experience who is 20 years old would have been fairly compensated at $70,000 per year and it would have been an incredible experience for him.
my current salary is 90,000 and I was told I was getting moved to 110,000.
they could have bumped me up and hired the green candidate and it would have evened out.
proxydman@reddit
That makes sense! I apologize as I'm in very small business IT, and I also mixed up your post with another. Bad at social media.
I understand what you are saying now, though.
zakabog@reddit
I read that as OP would get a 20K raise and the junior would get hired at the low end of the salary range, which is $20K wide. So if the salary range is from $60-80K OP gets the $20K difference the company already budgeted for while the junior gets a normal starting salary.
Broad-Comparison-801@reddit (OP)
yep this.
their range is 70-90K for the junior
I was already given a copy of my new job description and title (More accurately depicts what I'm currently doing) and was told I would be moved from my current salary of 90K to 110K. a 20k adjustment.
they're willing to pay 70-90K for the junior to help me with servers.
they had a 20-year-old with zero experience or education who would have taken the job for 70k. which would have been fair. it actually would have been an incredible experience. imagine you're a passionate Linux nerd at 20 years old with zero experience and you get a 70K a year salary and you've got 20 year old expenses and no college debt.
I'm discouraged because not only could I have gotten a raise but this would have been a tremendous opportunity for young person in a market where true Junior roles are drying up in an alarming rate. it makes me mad because we had the opportunity to open doors for young person and have a talented contributor to my team and now we have neither.
they could have paid me 110k evening this out. they would have retained me long-term and had very green passionate talent to develop. fucking stupid.
taker223@reddit
Why hire anyone and give a raise to you, if they can leave it like it is?
isonotlikethat@reddit
It sounds like they are gambling on OP staying with the company, and OP seems to be saying that it is a gamble that they will lose.
dr_z0idberg_md@reddit
My personal philosophy is to never accept a counter offer from my current employer. My reasoning is why didn't you pay me this before? Why did you wait until I had one foot out the door? Plus if you accept, I feel like the company now has this invisible hold on you (e.g. but we gave you more money so now you owe us).
And yes, American work culture sucks. We are one of the most productive nations in the world, and like it or not, the global economy does sort of revolve around us. The world did not get out of the Great Recession until the American economy did. With that said, the younger generations like millennials and GenZ are getting fed up with the status quo. I only hope they vote in people or make their voices heard enough with corporate America that substantial changes take place. I think hybrid/remote work was a good change, but even that is reverting a bit now.
Loan-Pickle@reddit
They are not hiring them because they don’t want you training a peer. They are not hiring because they don’t want to pay the salary.
proxydman@reddit
Might be a communication issue, but it is the "bottom of their 20k salary range." HR speak here makes it sound like sub 30k.