EU and its partners pledge 5.8 billion euros for Syria and its neighbours
Posted by bicman1243@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 166 comments
Posted by bicman1243@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 166 comments
bluecheese2040@reddit
Excellent news. Now we are funding jihadists that only this month were ethnically cleansing minorities. Aren't you proud to be European some times....
r0w33@reddit
I mean, the alternative is another crisis and another million refugees trying to get into Europe. Which countries in the middle east are not practicing some kind of genocide or ethnic cleansing?
HixOff@reddit
so could they just lift sanctions on Assad Syria and maintain the stability of his government?
loggy_sci@reddit
And enable a murderous dictator who massacred his own people? That’s Russia’s job.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
Assad ran a country stable and appealing enough to take in 1 million refugees from the occupation of Iraq. He presided over multiple cultures and ethnic groups.
Did you never wonder why, even though we had crushing sanctions against the country, and we gave more money to the terrorists than syria's entire military budget, why the people of Syria resisted the terrorists for so long?
Did it ever occur to you that assad wasn't as bad as US propaganda said, and the terrorists were worse than US propaganda said?
They actually convinced you to support literal Sunni extremist terrorists against a tolerant government. How did you get to that point?
loggy_sci@reddit
Did you it ever occur to you that the U.S. wasn’t the only country to oppose Assad on the basis that he massacred and committed atrocities against his own people? Calling Syria stable is wild.
Anyway, take it up with Turkey, they’re the ones who led the charge here.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
It was stable until Qatar spent $3 billion to hire Jihadists and a few disgruntled Syrian officers to fight a rebellion, and the US joined in with almost $1 billion per year (operation timber sycamore) and turkey and Saudi Arabia.
So you have Turkey, who mainly just wanted to kill Kurds, and the only two Sunni extremist dictatorships in the world,, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. I guess they just love democracy and freedom, and that's why they armed and trained Sunni terrorists. Is that really your theory? The DOD was the only one trying to find moderate fighters, and of course all of them were with assad or with the Kurds. So they chose the Kurds, who ended up fighting the sunni extremist terrorists/rebels armed by the Sunni extremist coalition the US helped fund. Basically they were all isis or various branches of Al qaeda. Isis got a very effective military leader who was trained by the US during their project in Georgia, and he brought lots of US trained Sunni Georgina with him.
http://test.journals.sci.am/index.php/nas-eurasia/article/view/558
https://www.businessinsider.com/omar-al-shishani-isis-commander-and-us-2015-9
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2013/10/25/saudi-arabia-qatar-may-be-playing-dangerous-game-over-syria-rebels/
https://www.conflictarm.com/reports/weapons-of-the-islamic-state/
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
This must explain why the vast majority of Syrians were parading in the streets after he fell. Were they paid actors? Türkiye doesn’t want to kill Kurds for the sake of it. The PKK terrorists work with the Kurdish forces in northeastern Syria. Defending Assad is absurd. No decent person supported him. Out of all of Iran’s allies he was the one I’d consider to be just straight up evil. The rest of the Middle East Iran-aligned groups have reasons for what they’re doing beyond wanting power. Assad bombed his own cities and used chemical weapons on civilians. There’s no excusing him. You don’t have to like Assad to oppose to new government.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
I'm saying that Syria was far better off before the US and friends began funding terrorists and sanctioning the country. They could have just left the country alone. Assad apparently wasn't bad enough compared to the terrorists that they could ever even capture a major city like aleppo. If he was really so awful it seems impossible that they could have held out so long against sanctions and thousands of foreign trained Jihadists that got more funding than the government did.
I'm sure a lot of people were happy that the war was finally over, especially strict Sunni muslims who probably don't care if they live under an extremist government.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
We saw how quickly he collapsed without direct Russian and Hezbollah intervention. It’s also important to note that the rebels rarely fought as one unified force. The infighting is what made the war take so much longer than many other wars in the region. No group could be dominant among the carnage. Even ISIS and HTS fought against each other and are on opposing sides right now despite what all the redditors here would have you think.
I understand your sentiment, and it is valid to a certain extent. It is similar to the one with Saddam where many people argue that, under Saddam, Iraq thrived and the west ruined it with the war. This is true. Even though Saddam was a dictator, the west had no right to kickstart his fall. On the other hand, Bashar is very different due to the fact that it wasn’t a foreign army that defeated him, but rather local militias and citizens (although I’ll admit with heavy foreign aid). During the events of the Arab spring, it was clear the citizens didn’t want Bashar, Mubarak, and other dictators. Bashar had no right to kill protestors and imprison dissenters. Who are we to deny the will of the Syrian people? Whether Syria is more or less stable than before we will see in the upcoming years.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
The terrorists had already received billions in aid and Syria was already being crushed by sanctiond in the years before Russia intervened.
Syria held on for years afterwards, basically sanctions are what eventually killed the country and helped the terrorists win.
Without foreign fighters the foreign paid rebellion would have been laughable. I live literally 5,000 miles away and is was recruiting fighters and even in high schools on a neighboring island, they offered monthly salaries of roughly what they could earn in a year working on a farm. For the most part, people supported assad for a very long time, because only Sunni extremists want to live under Sunni extremist terrorists. And they're likely not jazzed about it either. Without billions in foreign money and thousands of foreign fighters, there was no rebellion.
Who are we to deny the will of the Syrian people?
The US, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Qatar, and Turkiye, that's who. France tried to sneak in there too. Did you never read anything about the war? It took billions of dollars and years of sanctions to punish the Syrians to the point where they just gave up. Absolutely disgusting. But people get in the way of more powerful nations and they are forced to suffer. The US has wanted to destroy Syria for decades, i guess it's just a bonus for them that Israel is very happy as well. Madeline Alright summed it up for everyone when she was asked about sanctions on Iraq killing 500,000 children: "It was worth it". Worth it for what, no one really knows.
I can't wait for it to blow up in their faces.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
Yes but a country can stand even when sanctioned if the people aren’t against the government. Think about Cuba, North Korea, or Iran. You can survive under sanctions. You can’t survive being sanctioned when your people hate you for a completely unrelated reason. Bashar didn’t have to be a brutal oppressive dictator. You can’t completely blame sanctions on his fall when that just helped accelerate it. The root cause was his treatment of his own citizens. Hezbollah and Russia were far superior than the Syrian army at fighting the rebels, and it showed.
That’s not true. People didn’t support Bashar for a long time. It was a very small minority of people who liked him. Do you see people rushing to the streets in support of HTS or Bashar? The vast majority of Syrians are in support of the new government. I personally know many Syrians and not a single one has a doubt in their mind this is better than Bashar. Well the rebellion happened anyways. There were massive protests before the aid started coming in, and that aid was nothing more than the straw that broke the camels back.
You misunderstand who the general Syrians are. It’s not Bashar and his gang of criminals, it’s the average citizens who were NOT pro-Bashar. You seem to have read a lot about the transfer of money and course of the war. Are you also aware of the buildup to it? The Syrians during the Arab spring held massive protests before actually taking up arms. These protests resulted in over 10,000 arrests and many casualties. The one who gave up was the oppressive civilian-killing regime. The Syrian people never gave up. Bashar was not good for Syria, and I’m not sure what lead you to believe this. Being anti-west does not automatically make you good.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
You're deliberately being ridiculous, the US and friends spent billions of dollars hiring terrorists to destroy the country, did you forget that? They illegally occupied the country and stole their oil and food, they lost a huge amount of government revenue and their ability to feel themselves. Then strict sanctions prevented anyone from helping them rebuild. Yet they still held out for years.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
Do you think Bashar represents Syrians? I really don’t understand what your point is. Syria was sanctioned which contributed to Bashar’s fall? Yes that is right. What is also right is that the population of Syria HATED Bashar. Whether you like it or not the Syrians wanted Bashar gone and accomplished it. I don’t know why you’re so hung up on foreign intervention when it was a domestic group that went in and overthrew him. Before any western aid, the Syrians were holding massive protests. Do you get that? If you want me to say the west contributed to his fall, then yes it did. This doesn’t make Bashar good or minimize the work of the Syrian people who started the revolution internally.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
The US has had massive and even violent protests for years. Does that mean Russia can come in and pay for a revolution? If wouldn't work without massive intervention, just like the artificial foreign sponsored revolutions in Syria, Libya, etc
It was exactly the same as in Libya. There was a lot of anger and discontent. But the "revolution" could never happen without enormous amounts of outside funding and imported terrorists, there was just no popular support. In libya's case, the US and NATO had to illegally invade the country with special forces and bomb the government into oblivion.
In Syria's case, the went all out spending billions of dollars and flooding the country with well armed and well paid foreign terrorists, while illegally occupying key areas not only to provide a haven for the terrorists but to cut off Syria from their oil and food supplies, while publishing the Syrian people with sanctions. It was completely disgusting, yet the Syrian people did not give in for years! The genocidal, slave-owning terrorists were purely the creation of the US/Sunni extremist coalition. The few Syrian army that rebelled against assad (for a lot of money) were not terrorists nor extremists, they were just tired of Alawite domination. There was no summit extremist movement in Syria before Qatar and they US coalition created one.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
Not protests like in Syria. Big difference between protesting policy and protesting for the complete ousting of the government.
Libya is like Syria. Both of these were revolutions started internally. NATO’s biggest contribution was the no-fly zone. Stopping Gaddafi from using chemical weapons on civilians isn’t a bad thing.
The Syrian people were not the target of the sanctions and you know it. You’re right the Syrian people didn’t give up, Bashar did.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
Yes, protesters in the US would never say they want to remove Trump, lol. That's a good one.
For the rest, i could just read the same garbage from Hillary Clinton or John mccain. The absolute level of disregard for the people of these countries that have to suffer through these insane power games is inhuman. The only comforting thing is that the US is likely too broke to do this kind of thing again.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
I just realized I’m arguing with an actual assadist. This is below anyone. If you truly think Assad represented his people and his struggle was his people’s struggle, you are insane. It is beyond clear you don’t understand that the vast majority of Syrians hated Bashar. Your opinion past that is unimportant. Whether you think he was good for stability or good for the country doesn’t change the fact that nearly nobody else did. Syrian people oppose Bashar. The suffering came from opposing Bashar not from opposing the West and the rebels. Get that through your head before you praise the worst dictator in the Middle East.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
That's just propaganda that was put out for the dullards, to deflect from the fact that it's not a good idea to support terrorists, mass destruction, and human misery. Don't repeat that stuff, it's not good.
Stating the obvious fact that it would have been 1000x better just to leave Syria alone, and not spend billions to train and arm thousands of extremist terrorists and illegally occupy the country and steal their oil and starve them, doesn't mean you are praising anyone. It means you are a decent human being and not a psychopath or easily duped by western propaganda.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
Who dropped more bombs do you think Assad and his Russian overlords or the “terrorists”? I can assure you that the creators of human misery and mass destruction are the Assadists.
Assad is gone can’t make any complaints. The revolution was hard fought but won. Yes, western propaganda is really pushing me to dislike the guy that no Syrians (the ones who experienced Assad rule) like.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
Yes, there is now a literal terrorist dictatorship and mass killings, people like you are very happy. You're glac the Sunni extremists won, that's your entire reasoning. Most Syrians are not Sunni extremists.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
Most Syrians are happy right now not just Sunni extremists. No reason to lie. The “terrorist dictatorship” was not directly responsible for the killings. To stop the war many of the rebels had to join into the new Syrian army. Some of these rebel factions are not good and did revenge killings on alawites. The HTS has acknowledged this and is trying to reel in the fighters.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
The army of the terrorist dictatorship is committing acts of terrorism against Syrians, what a surprise!
Where is your consistency? You justified over throwing assad because he was bad. Why don't you think it's important to fight against this terrorist dictatorship? Instead you make excuses and support them. The level of hypocrisy is off the charts.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
Let me repeat what I just said. The current armed forces are made up of several former rebel groups. The free Syrian state is young and the leaders like Jolani don’t have the complete control over the entire army as many of the groups act on their own. He stated this was bad and is trying to stop further breaks from the command. You want to know why this is different than Assad? Assad went and bombed his own cities, used chemical weapons against his own people, and put tens of thousands in prisons. Through Assad’s direct command this all occurred. I’m sure you cannot find Jolani commanding his army to go and massacre alawites because that’s not what’s happening. You excuse Assad for the murder of his civilians but accuse the HTS for the murder other groups are doing.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
You're the one making excuses. I correctly pointed out that Syrians would have been better off if the Sunni extremist coalition hasn't spent billions arming and training foreign terrorists to murder, enslave, rape, and torture Syrians, nor punished the people of Syria with sanctions and stealing their food and oil..
You seem to think it was great, which seems pretty disgusting, but whatever. You will find plenty more terrorists to support all over the world, enjoy.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
You are lying and pretending that Assad was good and it was the rebels faults for the civilian suffering.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
You're being deliberately dense, i never said assad was good, i said Syria would be much better off if the Sunni extremist coalition hadn't paid billions to have terrorists murder and destroy, and if they hadn't sanctioned against rebuilding and stolen their oil and food. That's a simple fact.
Yes, the terrorists caused enormous suffering, that's what they were paid to do. Syria was better off without foreign terrorists murdering people, I'm not sure why you disagree but you're not alone. The terrorists have had lots of support from mang people like you, and government's too.
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
You said he brought stability. You are heavily implying he’s good. You are deliberately ignoring facts and failing to respond to the things I write. The Syrian people chose this. Get over it.
HealthPacc@reddit
He literally had mass torture prisons and used chemical weapons on his own people.
I’m sure you’re still upset that the US and allies supported resistance movements against Hitler’s regime too.
Antique-Resort6160@reddit
Did you learn nothing from Iraq? "Fool me once", do you know that saying? You are not only going to support terrorists, but you're going to fall for a chemical weapons claim, to get the US more involved in some stupid war, once again!
In this case, it's more like you're supporting Hitler against the French. Was the prewar French government shitty? Yes. Did they exploit and kill and mistreat a lot of people out of greed? Yes. Would it have been a good idea to support the Nazis to take them out? By your twisted logic, absolutely. I guess if a government is bad, it's ok to support a group that's 10x worse to take them out. Genius.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514d7a457a4e32457a6333566d54/index.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/16/chem-d16.html
HixOff@reddit
So Al-Qaeda is better because it's against Russia, even if it's not trying to hide?
loggy_sci@reddit
The current Syrian government isn’t al-qaeda, but for the record Assad was every bit as brutal as Al-Qaeda, if not more so.
throwawaymikenolan@reddit
That's like saying Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic - heavily relying on technicality
loggy_sci@reddit
It’s not a technicality the rebel group split from AQ.
People are honestly just mad that Russia and Iran got kicked out of Syria
throwawaymikenolan@reddit
Would you ever support a group that split off the Nazis or KKK?
Please explain to me difference between AQ and Al Nusra (or HTS whatever you want to call it).
That's what are you arguing for right now. Russia and Iran is completely irrelevant here.
rattleandhum@reddit
LMAO
rattleandhum@reddit
considering your continued presence on this sub supporting Israel's actions... thats a bit... pot calling the kettle black, eh?
loggy_sci@reddit
I don’t support Israel’s brutality in Gaza.
Comparing Israel to Syria and Netanyahu to Assad is perfect because all wars and places are the same.
Reasonable_Fold6492@reddit
Assad was not loved. His government collapsed faster than the south vietnamese government after usa retreat. The rebel offensive was successful in less than three weeks with most syrian defecting
r0w33@reddit
Last time I checked Assad was hiding in Moscow with the other murderous dictator. A fitting place for him to hide until the collapse of Russia.
Dependent-Quail-1993@reddit
Israel
KackhansReborn@reddit
Hahahahahahahahahaha
LactoesIsBad@reddit
Bait used to be believable
MDNick2000@reddit
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UndocumentedMartian@reddit
Do you know what happens to genocide supporters like you?
Dependent-Quail-1993@reddit
Enlighten me
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
You can either read about it now or find out soon enough.
Dependent-Quail-1993@reddit
😂 OkAy
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Laughable.
FirmEcho5895@reddit
Will this stop them coming? I doubt it
Bar50cal@reddit
I mean its a good investment. Its too build hospitals, schools, power stations etc and stabalise the country so refugees can go home and leave Europe and to help prevent another crisis there that will cost us more in the long run. Its not a blank cheque
bluecheese2040@reddit
Hmm. I mean do we send 5bn to the taliban cause u could make the same case....
IOnlyFearOFGod@reddit
They have at least stabilized their nation and i haven't heard news from them in a long time.
bluecheese2040@reddit
Hadn't heard of them in September 10th 2001 either.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
And that date matters... Why exactly?
bluecheese2040@reddit
Are you joking? I'm wondering if iqs have dropped suddenly...
Paradoxjjw@reddit
So nothing, gotcha.
bluecheese2040@reddit
Huh...the taliban harboured al qaeda...I'm struggling to understand if you're joking or serious. Don't u know this?
Paradoxjjw@reddit
Why am i not surprised you're pretending the taliban is responsible for 9/11 🙄
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Don't embarras yourself if you don't know what you are talking about.
The committee on foreign relations on the 24th of May 2011 presented to the senate this document.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-112shrg67892/html/CHRG-112shrg67892.htm#:~:text=There%20is%20plenty%20of%20evidence,based%20in%20Pakistan%27s%20tribal%20regions.
Stating and I'm quoting here: What is the relationship between the Taliban and al-Qaeda?
There is plenty of evidence for the continuing cozy relationship between al-Qaeda and important factions of the Taliban: For much of the past decade al-Qaeda has been harbored largely by the Haqqani network, the ferocious Taliban militia based in Pakistan's tribal regions.
So the taliban were absolutely collaborating across multiple territories including both Pakistan and Afghanistan, making them at the very least responsabile to some extent. I'll let you choose to which degree but I'm not dying on this hill.
Epic_Meow@reddit
you know that the taliban.. didn't do 9/11, right?
bluecheese2040@reddit
Yes. The point remains...as it was...correct. try harder
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
Al Queda and Taliban are 2 different groups.
cyberfx1024@reddit
The US has been sending the Taliban millions of dollars since we left in 2021 for humanitarian reasons.
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Loved seeing isis being treated And then we go around telling others about our principles and moral stances. So proud of being European
DeepCockroach7580@reddit
ISIS? Are you alright? Not all islamic groups are the same. HTS is not ISIS, is not Al-qaeda, is not the Taliban
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Took me seconds to find that they are actually Al-Qaeda. Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) is a coalition of northern Syria-based Sunni Islamist insurgent groups that evolved from Jabhat al-Nusrah, or “Nusrah Front,” al-Qa‘ida’s former branch in Syria. So they changed they're name. That's the equivalent of someone leaving a store and coming back with a fake mustache telling you his name is Gustavo or some shit, and you fell for it. Congratulations you played yourself.
DeepCockroach7580@reddit
Still not Al-qaeda
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Lol sure buddy.
It's his arch nemesis El Kaido, totally a different guy.🤡
layland_lyle@reddit
Yes but..... well they..... however they are....
I'm sure there is a reason, god knows what, but there must be a reason.
P.S. On a totally different note, does Syria pay backhanders?
notsocoolnow@reddit
The reason is to stop the flow of refugees into Europe. That's pretty much it. They're also hoping to stabilize the country so current refugees will consider going home.
layland_lyle@reddit
And how well has that worked in the past?
notsocoolnow@reddit
Considering that until now Syria was controlled by a Russian puppet who was deliberately exiling his own people into Europe, it was kind of impossible to even try.
layland_lyle@reddit
Other countries, like the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, etc.
notsocoolnow@reddit
Afghanistan was actually proceeding just fine as far as Europe was concerned until America decided to invade. Think about the logic here. You can't modernize the country. Trying is just going to fail in the end and cause fucktons of suffering while you're at war. But starting a war is exactly how you get fuck tons of refugees pouring into Europe.
So what do you do? Provide aid to reduce suffering and use diplomacy to blunt the worst of abuses. This is exactly what they want to do with Syria, because let me tell you the alternative. Russia comes by and offers to help them in exchange for exiling another million refugees into Europe.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
You can't really know what crises have been avoided through humanitarian aid, but you can reasonably predict that things would have gotten worse without it. More poverty and instability leads to more extremism.
layland_lyle@reddit
What about Afghanistan then?
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Afghanistan became extreme largely of its own accord, the invasion and occupation and attempts at development just failed to prevent it or even really reduce it, because people don't like being occupied.
layland_lyle@reddit
We funded the Mujahedeen rebels, who became the Taliban, then came 9/11.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
The Taliban didn't carry out 9/11, that was Al Qaeda. But that also wasn't humanitarian aid, and so the lesson there isn't to not invest in schools and hospitals, the lesson is to not give weapons to religious extremists.
layland_lyle@reddit
Who harboured Al Qaeda and their leader, this the West invaded.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
How does this change anything I'm saying? Supplying weapons to the Mujahideen didn't help in Afghanistan. It wouldn't help in Syria either. But this funding is not weapons. It's healthcare, education, food and water.
freeze-peach-warrior@reddit
And also probably to build another base of Western influence in the region. If there’s anything my very limited knowledge of foreign policy tells me it’s that “Nations will do whatever is in their interest” is a golden principle
_Phela_Poscam_@reddit
“International politics is never about democracy and human rights. It's about the interests of states. Remember that, no matter what you are told in history lessons.” Egon Bahr
Generic_Username_Pls@reddit
As opposed to continuing to fund Israel which are the opposite side of the religious extremist coin
best_uranium_box@reddit
Actually they've assimilated the warring parties responsible for the ethnic cleansing into the official government/military. It provides them with much more control over them and should hopefully help them transition into a much more tolerant government. I know the massacre was horrific but we can't expect radicalized warlords and their equally radicalised soldiers to settle down in a few months. Things take time and I'm hopeful for the future of Syria.
bluecheese2040@reddit
The taliban has taken many groups in as well. Are u hopeful for the future of Afghanistan?
Its.worth pointing out that you're hopeful for an Al qaeda led state (yes they changed their names but lets be honest...jolani was part or AQI when they were at their worst under zaqawi) many of whoms soldiers would be arrested the second they stepped into most countries cause they are jihadists.
I hope you're right.
I fear you are covering for evil
Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit
I think it says a lot that literal jihadis are likely better for Syria than Assad.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
They sure aren't better if you're Alawite.
bluecheese2040@reddit
Time will tell i guess. Two terrible options...
best_uranium_box@reddit
He has also publicly renounced any collusion with isis and al Qaeda along with many other iran backed militias. Everything is very uncertain right now but I am still hopeful.
bluecheese2040@reddit
Yeah....
suggestiveinnuendo@reddit
am I the only one who remembers rambo 3 and the plight of the brave mujahadeen fighting against the cold atheist boot of soviet imperialism?
also that movie with the lost tank, whatever it was called where the crazy tankie commander shoots the introvert Muslim while he's washing or praying or something
jihadists, fascists or any other type of religious/ethnic extremists are only bad people if they're working with the wrong side
honestly this is kind of refreshing, everyone is just saying the quiet part out loud now, it won't last of course, but fun during these transitional periods
sucks to be alawite, but that's what you get for betting on the wrong side some (checks notes) half century ago...
Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit
The idea that all or most of the mujihideen were extremists is revisionism. The main opponent of Al qaeda was also a former mujihideen.
Crouteauxpommes@reddit
I mean, it's easier to pressure someone when you have a hook. And 5.6 billions is a pretty good hook for a country that is surrounded by failed states and people occupying part of its territory.
The EU usually doesn't give magic cash. They put the money in a fund that is unfreezed only when certain criteria are met.
Magicspook@reddit
Fuck off, Russian troll.
MeasurementTall8677@reddit
Viva AlQuada, I'm assuming the EU has adopted the US model & these parasites are all getting kick backs on cash borrowed in the tax payers names.
It's a little at odds with their position on Ukraine.
The common denominator is of course, mountains of borrowed cash they personally have no liability for.
5 star summits & group photos with the Jihadi President, can't wait to see the EU flag & ISIS banner flying side by side
DeepCockroach7580@reddit
They're HTS, mate. Not all islamic groups are the same. Might be a reason why they fight among each other.
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Lol this has to be a concerted effort because I'm seeing this horseshit everywhere.
They are AlQaeda, they just changed they're name. I already said this before but this is the equivalent of someone leaving the store and coming back with a mustache and a sombrero on and showing you an ID saying Mclovin. HTS is AlQaeda
ChaosInsurgent1@reddit
They have fought against Al Qaeda though. Was that just like for fun or something? They are one and the same and fighting each other?
bjran8888@reddit
People in the West (if there still are any) are always asking why we don't believe in the West and abide by its morals.
Well ...... guess why we Chinese don't.
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
Not committing genocide is not western morality. It's basic decency. And how are you any different? You're also committing genocide and can't stay inside your own borders.
bjran8888@reddit
Joke: Westerners claim they care about Muslims——but only when they're Chinese Muslims.
This is the funniest joke I've heard this century.
Not commit genocide? Have you heard of the criminal triangular black slave trade? You killed off the natives of Canada, Mexico, Australia, and even some countries in South America.
Colonised India, China, Africa, North and South America ......
The western colonisers brought nothing but guns and oppression, chopping off people's hands and feet like the Belgians and putting chains around their necks like the British. That's why I find it so ironic when these countries claim to be ‘civilised’. The English with their bowler hats and civilised sticks claim to be English gentlemen, but they don't hesitate to chop off the heads of their black slaves overseas.
‘Decent’? Westerners have the nerve to call themselves decent?
Czart@reddit
You do realise you said that in a thread about europe sending billions to a predominately muslim nations?
bjran8888@reddit
Yeah, the original Syria was a secular state where both Muslims and Christians could live normally (10% Christians in Syria).
Now you throw them to extreme extremist religious organizations and give them aid.
Not even the Taliban in Afghanistan have carried out a massacre on this scale, based on ethnicity.
Europe is really good.
Czart@reddit
Make up your mind.
Thrown into a dark pit by the order of a dictator isn't normal.
bjran8888@reddit
It's okay, according to you guys, they can now live a quiet and peaceful life without being liquidated.
Israel's invasion of their territory isn't a problem anymore either.
We get it.
That's your western standard of morality.
Czart@reddit
Wait, what did you guys do about any of this? Because all i can see is you guys whining how bad west is while doing absolutely nothing. Too busy sending your navy against fishing boats?
bjran8888@reddit
Why do you guys think we have to lower ourselves and become like you?
Don't you realize that your own interventionism is the source of this world getting worse and worse?
Czart@reddit
Oh, of course, so you do nothing except harass your neighbours but then turn around and start whining how bad we are. Priceless. And pathetic.
bjran8888@reddit
According to you, we do one thing: Nothing. Win.
Of course we do our own thing, we develop our own science and technology, our own economy, we develop our relations with Asian, African, Latin American countries.
Funny how people like you don't realize in the slightest that we in the third world are the majority in this world and you are the minority.
No one believes in your hypocritical "free world order" anymore, not even you, right?
Ask Trump.
Czart@reddit
Yes yes, you're saints, nothing happening in Xinjiang, or Tibet or SCS. Peace, love and hugs. Spare me your attempts at moral high ground.
bjran8888@reddit
Keep pretending that you are the "garden" and the rest of the world is the "jungle".
Who started the condescension towards other countries?
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
I'm from a neighbouring nation. Not a western one. You cannot claim to be better when you do the same things they do. You're not committing 1 genocide but 2. One is of the Uygurs and the other of Tibetians. You may not be committing mass murder in the second case but wiping an identity and culture also amounts of genocide.
bjran8888@reddit
Are Indians nice to Muslims ......
I really don't want to say anything more to people like you who only believe in western media.
Suit yourself.
Have a nice life.
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
It's not Indian policy to segregate or abduct muslims and kill or "re-educate" them. I vaguely remember reading that Uygur infants get separated from their mothers to prevent the passing of the Uygur identity. Not sure if it's true but it sounds a lot like CCP policy. To say nothing of the concerted effort to wipe out Tibetan culture.
Communal tensions are a problem when you're not a relatively homogenous population and don't try to commit genocide against those that don't look or think like you.
mrstankydanks@reddit
No they don’t. China is a dog shit country with dog shit people leading it. Get fucked loser.
EpicNikiCH47@reddit
You are straight up chinese.... No way you are serious
bjran8888@reddit
You're from Europe ...... You can't be serious.
EpicNikiCH47@reddit
The party which is currently in power committed genocide towards the Uyghurs, repressed revolts with violence, limites the knowledge available to his people, threatens Taiwan's independency with military exercises in the South China Sea, imprisons state critics, has poor regulations against child labour and regarding work safety in general and I could go on and on and on but the point is, unless these are aligned with your morals you have been severly slacking too. Europe is not perfect by a longshot but it has been following what it preaches far better than China, there's no doubt in my mind.
bjran8888@reddit
It's funny that you can't name even one thing outside of China's borders.
Want me to talk about the shit you Europeans started doing hundreds of years ago?
Is there a continent that you haven't invaded and colonized and slaughtered? What kind of good guys do you really think you are?
Shivers9000@reddit
Securing their own borders is hard for them, but exporting BS around the world is apparently super easy.
Perhaps if they stopped 'supporting', the region would automatically stabilise around whatever center of power that can fill the vacuum. This 'artificial support' is what kept Afghanistan burning for more than 20 years.. and to what? Bringing the Taliban back the moment the support stopped.
bjran8888@reddit
There's an old Chinese saying: Those who play with fire will eventually burn themselves.
_Phela_Poscam_@reddit
The Global South entirely. Actually, not believing in this narrative is already enough to be called part of it.
DeaglanOMulrooney@reddit
So this newly declared Islamic State in Syria (ISIS) is getting a big fat paycheck after demonstrating it shouldn't be allowed to rule over minorities
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
Bad bot!
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
I'm sure The Alawites appreciate your support of HTS.
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
Sorry bud, Assad is toast!
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
There's the fascist European coming out. I'm of Arabic descent, Egyptian to be specific. I lost a dozen of relatives this past year alone both in Syria Lebanon and Gaza. I personally know people that where persecuted by the Assad regime and now are scared for their life. I know people that died. You implying I'm defending Assad should give you an idea of how polarized, propagandised and simplistic your world view is.
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
I swear your comment said fascist, not racist. Anyways, I’m curious, who would you support as the leader of Syria?
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Why not both buddy
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
You going to keep ignoring my question buddy? I thought you had strong opinions on the matter!
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Nobody is ignoring anything.
You just think that your solution is the only one.
What do you know about the Syrian community?
Did you look for alternatives or do you just assume no alternatives exist?
Do you think your going to find a viable alternative in the ruble?
You're question is detached from reality.
Nobody has a instant Ramen solution like you think.
But we can start by not supporting AlQaeda.
Again, you prove to be insensitive to the suffering of an entire region.
And when encountering, someone with that prospective your assumption is they're an Assad supporter.
Most likely we killed they're Nelson Mandela multiple times over with our bombs.
And you are here asking where is Syria Neo liberal pro market candidate.
I'm sure he is somewhere around in the area.
In the meantime let's not fund AlQaeda, when we barely looked amongst the ruble.
You learned about Syria this year bro have some patience this ain't instant coffee.
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
My god this is some schizo posting. I’m assuming you have an alternative in mind since you are so opinionated about this. That’s why I’m asking.
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Proved my point buddy awesome job.
Me: There's no alternative viable in a war torn country with sectarian infighting.
You: He's passionate not because he's relatives are dead but because he's either hiding an alternative from us or he doesn't have it.
Guess we have to support AlQaeda
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
I want a good alternative as much as anyone, it’s literally why I’m asking you if you know one. I’m sure the pro-democratic people in Europe feel similarly if they are willing to send billions to Syria.
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Alot of assumptions but I promise you this won't end well. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
Right… Europeans are so fascist that they’re sending billions to support the new republic of Syria. They’re so fascist that they took in millions of Syrian refugees!
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Someone hasn't been paying attention to European politics in the last few years.
They're sending money to AlQaeda in Syria and Israel.
I dont know if you are Canadian or American but We're not trying to take The US as an example.
I'm in Italy right now so your comment is particularly clownish.
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
Mate, the EU is not a fascist establishment. Not yet at least. Syria would be receiving zero aid if that were the case.
Who would you support as the new leader of Syria?
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
Mate, I'm in Europe. On top of that I'm Italian. We are taught what fascism is very early dog. You're understanding of it is a caricature. This is not a looney toons episode. Europe is drifting towards fascism. You can listen to Yanis Varafakis if actually care which I doubt. You don't know what you are talking about. This is being presented as aid and the where the funds will be allocated is still unknown. You are giving the funds to former AlQaeda. I'm not born yesterday and if you want to live in la la land talking about stuff you know nothing about suit yourself. Fascist governments disguse financial support as AID since the invention of fascism in Italy in 1919.
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politiche_sociali_del_fascismo
This is a whole ass article on Wikipedia explaining how fascism has always linked itself to social issues sometimes just faking it to gather consensus.
EU is drifting towards fascism at breakneck speed.
There's not going to be an announcement or a conference when it happens, just the memory of a warning that you ignored.
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
If you could comprehend my very simple comment, then you would understand that I implied that some of Europe is on the path to fascism. But the European Union is itself a democratic entity.
I would have taken you more seriously if you actually answered my question or if you didn’t include remarks about looney toons in your nonsense schizo posting. You can’t even name another Syrian to lead their new republic.
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
It's made of fascist countries but it's not fascist. Sure genius logic there. How much fascism is good enough for you 20%,30%,40%?
Oh but wait there's more.
There's more:
This Giandomenico Majone whose expertise was in regulatory governance within the European Union.
He States in his report titled Deficit democratico, istituzioni non-maggioritarie ed il paradosso dell'integrazione europea:
Only democratic countries can become members of the European Union, but the Union itself suffers from a "democratic deficit". Thus, the European Parliament is directly elected, but lacks the basic powers of national parliaments. By contrast, key institutions like the European Commission, the Court of Justice and the European Central Bank, are non-majoritarian. The paper shows that the paradox of a union of states which requires its members to be democratic but is not itself fully democratic, is more apparent than real. It also argues that, absent an European "demos", an European super-state would be unable to produce all the public goods, especially income redistribution and generalised social services, which people expect of a modern welfare state. The real paradox of the European Union is not the contrast between its own democratic deficit and the democratic requirements for membership. Rather, the paradox is that the essentially non-majoritarian nature of the integration process has significantly improved the quality of democracy at the national level, for example by prohibiting any form of discrimination, particularly on the basis of national origin, or gender. Such prohibitions are directly effective and hence can be invoked by the citizens even against their own governments.
So no, The EU is not really a democratic entity,far from it, to the point that there's some institutions he defines as Non majority institutions that as European citizens we can't even vote for, they're just appointed.
I for once remember when Wolfgang Schäuble, the former German finance minister said ‘Elections cannot be allowed to change economic policy’
So democratic.
You clearly don't know any of this and yet you heard the words European and democracy paired with each other your whole life so you take it at face value.
The more we dive in this conversation the more surface level your knowledge seems and then you throw a hissy fit over 5 dumb questions over semantics.
No acknowledgement of fault, sources, life experience.
Not one time did you take a step back and think maybe this new information presented to me is relevant i should check it out.
Your premise was bullshit, your questions are bullshit, your arguments were bullshit. And yet
Errare è umano, perseverare è diabolico. To err is human, to persevere is diabolical.
Unique_Statement7811@reddit
To be fair, the newly self declared President of Syria is the leader of the al-Nusra Front and was the 2nd in command of al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI).
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
He is also supposedly more moderate than when he was part of Al Qaeda and resisted ISIS when it came to Syria, unlike what Mulrooney is claiming. He’s really upset that the Russian puppet isn’t in power any longer
Kobajadojaja@reddit
Seems like soft power is an unknown term on this sub.
These funds are not unconditional. Diplomacy rarely works if you only wield a stick with non-allies. You also need a carrot.
Oceanshan@reddit
Last time china did it you guys called it what i can't remember
Oh right, debt trap and support genocide
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Is anyone trying to claim China was investing to try to bring stability and reduce poverty and thereby extremism in those regions? They don't have the same exposure to migration as Europe so the purely self-interested angle makes no sense there.
China's belt and road investment and genocide of the Uyghurs are two separate subjects.
skrg187@reddit
Daaaamn, good thing there's no propaganda in Europe and our great governments and leaders "try to bring stability and reduce poverty" in the world.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Ever considered reading an entire comment before replying to it? Like here that might have helped you see I was saying Europe benefits from doing that while China doesn't, so no need for any high and mighty ideals.
Kobajadojaja@reddit
Who are those "you guys"? I have nothing against Belt and road, its a good project.
This support is the only possible way of EU countries influencing Syria to be more stable and just. This is ofcourse not an altruistic goal. EU has vested interest in motivating Syirans to return (from EU and Turkiye) and stay there and also create a potential future buisness partner.
DeviantPlayeer@reddit
Yeah, it only works with terrorists but doesn't work with Assad or Putin. How convenient.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
That's a bold assumption considering the Commission has not specified what these funds are to be used for or who these "neighbors" or "partners" are. The Commission are not concerned about the best interests of Europeans, what makes you think they have the best interests of Syrians in mind?
Fluid_Reaction9936@reddit
Trueee. Look at all those African countries and the billions in aid. They absolutely love us. No? How about the millions given to Palestine, Yemen and Lebanon? Oh. I have a better idea. How about outsourcing all our manufacturing to China so the not so bright can have cheaper stuff for a decade before they realised they got dumped and their wages will barely grow for the rest of their sad lives so the billionaires can try their hand at becoming trillionaires :).
Midnight7_7@reddit
We know it, it's a synonym of the term ineffective.
GrandviewHive@reddit
Lol that's so naive 😂
Iraqi_Weeb99@reddit
In other words, "please help us deport all Syrians in Europe back to Syria, we don't care if you are Isis and genociding minorities as long you accept Syrians back"
Emotional_Charge_961@reddit
It is weird logic actually. Europa can absorb Syrians less than 2 million. 2 million people working for new Syria is actually great for today Syria. Arab States had expulsed the Jews, Jews took refugee in Israel, Israel had gained manpower in this way.
I am not sure strong new Syria is good for Europa. It is probable that they can defeat Israel with equipment of Turkish army. It will result that Jewish refugees running to Europa. Do Europa like not? They won't.
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
This is antisemitic, racist bullshit propaganda. You are deranged.
Emotional_Charge_961@reddit
I am not Antisemite or Racist. I am making political analysis. Europa thinks only her benefit. That's why I propose that funding and sending refugees back to Syria has a possibility of harming Europa more in long term. 2 million Syrian refugees is less harmful to Europa than 10 million Alawites, Muslim Shiites, Jewish refugees in long run.
GrandviewHive@reddit
There is now visual of over a thousand executed Alawite civilians and dozens of Christians with women and small children among them. Europe is a moral whore and this payment for taking down Assad and working to balkanize Syria.
_M-A-R-U_@reddit
I'm embarrassed and ashamed to be European. First genocide in Gaza, then the bombing of Lebanon and now this. For a year and a half we went around flaunting our already flimsy concept of morality and then sold it all to support the USA in it's imperial, warmongiring agenda.
And for what? Now they're about to fuck us too.
The European leaders are like the democratic party in the US a failed leadership and this clowns should not be given the benefit of the doubt anymore.
combrade@reddit
To the people opposed to this , you’re welcome to petition your local EU government to accept as many refugees as possible.
Bacchanalia101@reddit
One thing that the EU has proved is that they do not care about human lives, if that goes again their interest. No more than any of the country they like to give moral lessons to. Hell as we speak they are doing everything they can and beyond to silence/ support/ commit a G.no.side. We are not worth more than the 'thug african gouvernements' in terms of moral power now.
Why is anyone surprised ?
ThimMerrilyn@reddit
Just Think how many heads they’ll be able to chop now! Brilliant !